0:00

Marion's boss asks her to

0:00

take it. Did you just delete

0:03

something?

0:03

It said back at "the

0:03

work." Is there only "one work"

0:07

in the world?

0:08

Yes, there is "the job"

0:10

The one office.

0:11

I am going to "the job"

0:11

now. The work at the office.

0:16

It's ours.

0:17

Okay.

0:28

Hello, and welcome to

0:28

Episode Nine of the Teen Horror

0:32

podcast where we watch and

0:32

discuss horror movies from a

0:35

teen's perspective. I'm your

0:35

host Sage, and I'm joined by my

0:39

co host and unpaid intern, my

0:39

dad.

0:41

Greetings everybody.

0:43

This week, we watched a

0:43

movie that changed horror and

0:46

taking showers forever. Psycho.

0:49

(makes EEE EEE EEE noises like the Psycho soundtrack)

0:51

What was that!

0:54

That was my soundtrack.

0:54

Okay, so maybe a quick content

1:00

warning. This movie does feature

1:00

subjects including both

1:03

fictional and real serial

1:03

killers and murder. Well, I

1:06

guess the movie doesn't contain

1:06

real serial killers, but our

1:08

discussion of the movie will

1:08

contain discussions of real

1:11

serial killers and murder. Yep.

1:12

One other quick note, we

1:12

will be spoiling this film. So

1:15

if you haven't seen it, please

1:15

watch it first and come back for

1:18

the discussion.

1:21

be keeping things family

1:21

friendly and avoiding cussing in

1:29

both the banter and movie clips.

1:29

Of course, in this episode, even

1:35

without F bombs, the subject

1:35

matter is still pretty intense.

1:39

So probably not appropriate for

1:39

younger kids. We wanted to thank

1:42

everyone for listening and being

1:42

a part of the show. So thank

1:45

you, dear listener, we do have

1:45

listeners right now on all

1:48

continents other than

1:48

Antarctica, we figured that's

1:51

only because everyone in

1:51

Antarctica has already been

1:54

turned into The Thing and The

1:54

Thing doesn't listen to

1:56

podcasts, evidently. So but if

1:56

you do know somebody on McMurdo

1:59

Station, hey, you know, maybe

1:59

recommend us? Speaking of

2:02

recommendations, we do really

2:02

like to get reviews and ratings

2:05

on Apple podcasts. So if you

2:05

have a chance, please review us

2:09

there, Apple podcasts in

2:09

particular. But really any

2:12

podcast platform is great if you

2:12

want to just leave us a review.

2:15

It also just makes us feel great to know that you guys are listening and how you feel about

2:17

the show and what your thoughts

2:19

are. We also wanted to give a

2:19

special shout out to friend of

2:22

the show Rich at Scarecrow

2:22

video,

2:25

Who, by the way, has met

2:25

David Lynch.

2:27

Yes, he's actually been

2:27

in the same room. Yes, it's

2:30

pretty amazing. I suspect, not

2:30

just David Lynch. Well, I think

2:34

he's probably met a whole passel

2:34

of directors.

2:37

Do you just make that up? No, I think passle is

2:40

the word for when directors are

2:40

all?

2:42

Yes. A group of directors

2:42

is a passel of directors. Yeah,

2:46

he's met a bunch. Rich is a

2:46

friend of the show a friend and

2:51

he gives us great

2:51

recommendations on movies that

2:53

we like to watch. And you know,

2:53

we actually watch, we try to

2:56

watch most of our films on Blu

2:56

ray. And it's just so great to

3:00

have Scarecrow here in Seattle.

3:00

I think it's the biggest video

3:03

store in the world right now.

3:03

Yeah, I should also mention,

3:05

this is not any sort of

3:05

sponsored message, we just

3:08

really like Scarecrow, they're a

3:08

nonprofit, actually, they take

3:11

donations, you know, if you have

3:11

a like, say, I don't know,

3:14

$40,000 in cash that you just

3:14

embezzled from your employer and

3:17

fled town with their a great

3:17

choice. You don't have to be

3:20

local to do it. They're really

3:20

preserving a very important

3:23

media. So before we start with

3:23

our summary and review, we

3:28

thought it might be fun to talk

3:28

a little bit about some of the

3:32

movies we've been watching that

3:32

we haven't reviewed, how we

3:34

watch them and just have a

3:34

little casual chat time. How's

3:38

that sound? How does that strike

3:38

your fancy?

3:41

It strikes it perfectly.

3:44

But not too hard? Right?

3:44

Your fancy is ok? Alright, so we

3:47

rented a whole whole passle of

3:47

videos recently.

3:51

We watched Dawn of the

3:51

Dead.

3:54

The 1970s version to be

3:54

clear. Yeah. Maybe we'll watch

3:58

the remake as well. What did you

3:58

think about I'm just curious.

4:01

I think that it's

4:01

definitely worth watching more

4:04

than once. Because I'm sure

4:04

there's like themes and such

4:09

that you would get.

4:10

Is that the first zombie

4:10

film that you've seen

4:12

Define zombie film.

4:14

Film. With zombies.

4:16

No. It is not.

4:20

What other zombie movies have you seen?

4:23

I don't know. Zombieland?

4:26

Oh, Zombieland for sure.

4:26

You've seen Zombieland. Okay, so

4:29

this is not your first zombie

4:29

movie. Not my first zombie

4:32

rodeo.

4:34

You called it a slow

4:34

zombie movie?

4:37

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

4:37

because later on. Yeah. So in 28

4:42

days later. I think that's the

4:42

movie that introduces the

4:45

concept of the fast zombie.

4:45

Yeah. I should watch that too.

4:48

Yes. Totally. I actually want

4:48

you to watch a couple more

4:52

zombie films when we maybe we

4:52

just do a zombie episode.

4:55

Yeah, we could do that.

4:55

Yeah. I watched Lost Highway by

5:00

David Lynch. I still cannot

5:00

believe that Rich has met David

5:05

Lynch. That's insane. I don't

5:05

know. Yeah, it's crazy. I have

5:10

seen someone who has seen David

5:10

Lynch

5:13

Through the transitive

5:13

property of seeing you too have

5:16

seen David Lynch. Pretty much.

5:16

Maybe if we just sit and talk

5:21

with him for a while. And he

5:21

just really describes David

5:23

Lynch in detail.

5:24

So today, we had an

5:24

interview with David Lynch.

5:27

Sort of. Rich channeled

5:27

David Lynch.

5:32

What else we oh, we

5:32

watched this, just like kind of

5:39

short horror movie. Yeah, like

5:39

45 minutes long. AM 1200. It was

5:46

really good. And there were some

5:46

behind the scenes on it. On the

5:51

blu ray, they included a deleted

5:51

scene, which I thought was fun

5:55

to see. It's interesting to just

5:55

think about how that would have

5:59

changed the film. So that that

5:59

movie was really cool. And what

6:03

else

6:04

Trying to think what else I have seen recently.

6:06

Well, oh, we watched The

6:06

Life Aquatic. By Wes Anderson.

6:11

We do watch non horror

6:11

films as well. Yeah.

6:13

Surprisingly, I really cover

6:13

those in our sister podcast,

6:18

teen non-horror podcast.

6:21

I really like Wes

6:21

Anderson. As a director. Yeah.

6:26

There's something there's

6:26

something about his, you know,

6:28

so the pace of his his movies.

6:28

If you know if a pace can be

6:36

compared to someone walking the

6:36

pace of his movies, it's kind of

6:39

like someone walking with a

6:39

limp. But in a good way. You

6:43

know, there's just some odd

6:43

pauses, you know, and some weird

6:48

little

6:48

sort of occasional shuffle.

6:50

Yeah, yeah. I really like

6:50

I think it's a unique

6:55

Yeah, what else? I'm trying to think what else we watched prey? The new predator?

6:56

Oh, my

6:59

gosh, yeah. I mean, and

6:59

obviously, I've seen predator.

7:02

That's right.

7:03

Yep. But we just recently

7:03

watched predator, right. Yeah.

7:07

I wouldn't want to watch

7:07

prey without first seeing

7:11

predator, because I think it's

7:11

important to appreciate how far

7:14

the this battle of eggs have

7:14

gone. And just see the original

7:18

concept. Yeah. A predator. Yeah.

7:22

I mean, also, I mean, the

7:22

predator is pretty amazing what

7:25

they achieved without special

7:25

effects. Yeah. Yeah. Which is

7:29

relevant, actually, to our

7:29

discussion of psycho. Yeah. And

7:34

just like go, do you think it's

7:34

pronounced psycho? Yeah,

7:37

probably. But this whole

7:39

episode about prey, I

7:39

loved it. And I think it was

7:46

really good that they had a

7:46

female lead, and that almost the

7:51

whole cast the whole cast

7:51

besides the like, the Frenchmen

7:54

were indigenous. And anyone who

7:54

thinks that the movie is

7:59

unrealistic, because it was a

7:59

woman can stop listening

8:02

to our podcast. Yeah.

8:02

Just turn it off right now.

8:06

Because I have heard that

8:06

criticism of it so many times.

8:11

And it is shocking to me that

8:11

people still have these trains

8:15

of thought. I truly cannot

8:15

fathom that. There are people

8:20

out there who still think that

8:20

the movie was bad because there

8:24

was a woman as the lead.

8:26

It's a terrible

8:26

criticism. I know. Yeah. Yeah.

8:30

We really liked it. It was I

8:30

loved great movie. Super fun.

8:33

Love. It's taken predator into a

8:33

great direction. Yeah, I've

8:38

watched it twice now.

8:40

So those are some of our

8:40

movie recommendations recently.

8:43

Yeah. Um, okay, so should we get

8:43

on to the summary? Oh, do you

8:49

have something else

8:49

to say? Oh, no, my

8:49

thoughts aren't important. Just

8:53

steamroll right over everything.

8:53

I was gonna say

8:57

anything. Okay. So,

9:00

yeah, let's go into the summary A quick note on our film

9:12

summaries, we love doing these

9:15

summaries we love including

9:15

audio from the film's so let us

9:18

know what you think in terms of

9:18

like the length of the summary.

9:22

We go shorter, longer. Maybe

9:22

we're hitting the sweet spot

9:26

just let us know what you think.

9:26

On to the summary. Sycho opens

9:34

with a wide panning shot across

9:34

an American city hundreds of

9:37

buildings 1000s of Windows. The

9:37

camera zooms in further and

9:40

further to we're entering one

9:40

window in particular. Inside we

9:43

watch a steamy love scene

9:43

between Marion Crane, a

9:46

secretary played by Janet Lee

9:46

and her boyfriend Sam Loomis

9:49

played by John Gavin

10:13

While the couple is

10:13

interested in more than just

10:15

afternoon, rendezvoused and CD

10:15

hotels, Sam is bound by debt it

10:19

doesn't feel he has the

10:19

financial resources to marry her

10:22

yet. Marian seems frustrated by this

10:36

she clearly loves Sam, but how

10:40

they can overcome this obstacle

10:40

is unclear.

10:43

Back at work, Marianne is

10:43

discomforted by the lecherous

10:46

new client her bosses dealing with. Keeping his money off the books

11:02

he slaps down payment for a

11:04

building and thick wads of cash,

11:04

Marion's boss asks her to take

11:08

it for immediate deposit. Leaving with a money Marian

11:18

seize her opportunity to clear a

11:20

path for her and Sam to finally

11:20

marry. She literally takes the

11:24

money and runs

11:26

fleeing town with a

11:26

suitcase and $40,000 in cash.

11:30

She drives all night and sleeps

11:30

on the side of the road in her

11:33

car. awakened by a police

11:33

officer she handles the

11:36

encounter poorly raising his

11:36

suspicions.

11:54

One bad encounter leads to

11:54

further panic decisions as she

11:58

stops to trade in her car at a

11:58

dealership driving off past the

12:02

police officer who followed her there. She seems unprepared for her new

12:18

life of crime and needs to rest

12:21

to collect your thoughts.

12:21

Finally, in the middle of the

12:24

night in pouring rain, she spots

12:24

a motel. The Bates Motel from

12:30

which she will never check out.

12:49

Marian checks in and

12:49

meets the proprietor Norman

12:51

Bates a young charming if

12:51

slightly odd young man. She and

12:55

Norman bond over a conversation

12:55

in which they each reveal the

12:58

metaphorical traps they find

12:58

themselves in.

13:18

Marion doesn't disclose details,

13:18

but Norman goes into depth about

13:22

feeling trapped by his mother,

13:22

whom he still lives with in a

13:24

house behind the hotel. Marian

13:24

and Norman each leave the

13:28

conversation inspired, but

13:28

inspired two distinctly

13:31

different action.

13:33

Marian returns to her room

13:33

clear headed for the first time

13:36

and days and decides to return

13:36

the money and face the

13:39

consequences. Feeling relief

13:39

having made this decision she

13:42

prepares to shower to wash away

13:42

her feelings of shame and guilt.

13:47

As she just robes she is unaware

13:47

that in the next remover. Norman

13:51

is watching her throw people. He

13:51

desires her but this is

13:55

something his mother cannot

13:55

abide. And minutes later she

13:58

bursts into the bathroom while

13:58

Marian showers a dark and

14:01

menacing figure who brutally

14:01

murders Marian by stabbing her

14:05

again and again with a knife.

14:05

Marion's life swirls down the

14:08

drain as she bleeds out in the

14:08

bath.

14:15

After his mother returns

14:15

to their house, we hear Norman

14:18

scream apparently from the blood. He rushes to the room and upon

14:25

entering discovers to his horror

14:28

that his mother has killed

14:28

apparently not for the first

14:30

time. After the initial shock he

14:30

takes action and disposes of

14:34

Mary Ann's body and possessions.

14:34

A

14:37

detective sent to track

14:37

down Marian and the money

14:40

contacts Marian sister and

14:40

boyfriend Sam and then proceeds

14:43

to interview Norman his suspicions around the

15:09

coverup of events lead to his

15:12

sneaking into the Bates house

15:12

and a fatal encounter with

15:15

Norman's mother.

15:48

Marian sister and Sam

15:48

loose patients waiting for the

15:50

detective and take matters into

15:50

their own hands. Breaking into

15:54

Marion's room at the hotel they

15:54

find evidence of our occupancy

15:56

and know that Norman is lying about something. Sam keeps Norman busy. Marian

16:25

sister sneaks up to the house

16:29

convinced that the mother knows

16:29

something to finding only empty

16:32

rooms she hides in the basement

16:32

as Norman rushes in.

16:35

There she enters the

16:35

cellar and discovers to her

16:38

horror the desiccated remains of

16:38

Norman's mother.

16:56

As she screams, Norman rushes in

16:56

wearing his mother's clothes,

17:00

acting, and as it turns out,

17:00

even thinking as his mother

17:04

would, his split personality is

17:04

finally split no more, the

17:08

mother half dominates

17:08

completely, and he descends into

17:10

madness alone in a police

17:10

holding cell as the movie ends.

17:16

II don't do that, again.

17:21

I don't remember any of

17:21

the other soundtrack. But this

17:24

is that that's the only part of

17:24

the scores. All right on to the

17:29

discussion.

17:40

So for this movie, I

17:40

actually want both of us I guess

17:43

we compiled a list of things to

17:43

talk about, because there's just

17:47

so much that happened with this

17:47

movie behind the scenes,

17:50

especially because it was

17:50

directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

17:54

And he's a little bit eccentric.

17:57

He has big ideas is

17:57

master filmmaking.

18:00

He's a little stubborn.

18:00

Yeah, one of the things that I

18:03

wanted to talk about was the

18:03

iconic shower scene, because you

18:07

know, I'm sure many people

18:07

listening to this podcast know

18:10

what we're talking about, even

18:10

if they haven't seen the movie.

18:13

I knew about the shower scene,

18:13

even though Yeah, let's

18:15

Okay, so before we get

18:15

into all that, let me ask you

18:17

like, what did you know about this movie before? You You saw it?

18:20

What I knew about the

18:20

movie, I knew the shower scene.

18:23

I knew the iconic scream. The

18:23

stabbing. And honestly, that's

18:27

pretty much it. I didn't know

18:27

anything about women. Yeah, you

18:31

didn't know Norman was No, I

18:31

didn't know it was Norman. I

18:34

didn't know that the mother was

18:34

actually dead. Well, I didn't

18:37

know anything else about the

18:37

potluck, the motel the

18:39

embezzlement, her boyfriend, her

18:39

sister, anything like that.

18:42

Yeah. So even though it is in

18:42

some ways, a hallmark of movies

18:47

and pop culture. It's really

18:47

only one scene that's talked

18:50

about heavily outside of horror

18:50

circles.

18:53

We've been joined by our

18:53

third production associate, new

18:56

member of the crew, our cat is

18:56

just wandered in. Just checking

19:01

things out. Could you get us

19:01

some coffee, please? This cat is

19:04

useless.

19:06

So apparently, back in the

19:06

day, when it was released in

19:09

1960. Obviously, there were a

19:09

lot of things that weren't as

19:13

acceptable to show on film. Yes.

19:13

And actually,

19:18

what was the issue? The

19:18

censorship? Yeah. And,

19:20

you know, no one had even

19:20

seen a toilet on film before

19:23

before this movie, which I was

19:23

surprised by, you know, because

19:26

it's so normal now. I'm not

19:26

really shocked by it.

19:29

It's nothing but toilets

19:29

everywhere. Yeah, obviously,

19:31

they couldn't show a knife

19:31

going into a person.

19:34

Yeah, there was a lot of

19:34

censorship around like, that's

19:37

actually one of the reasons that

19:37

this film, he chose to film this

19:40

in black and white, which feels

19:40

like you know, an iconic and

19:43

appropriate choice. But he

19:43

couldn't show red blood was like

19:47

that taboo. So he filmed it in

19:47

black and white so that there

19:49

wouldn't be red blood. I guess.

19:49

Dark blood is okay. It's like

19:53

blood if you like, react to it.

19:55

Yeah. But yeah, so he

19:55

managed to get around that with

19:59

lots of little jumps, jump cuts

19:59

between the actual murder scene

20:04

yes or no between Marion's face

20:04

screaming and then the knife

20:08

almost coming into contact with

20:08

the torso. And apparently there

20:12

is a frame like three, three

20:12

frames maybe where the knife is,

20:17

quote unquote in her skin. Yeah.

20:17

And we were looking at a website

20:22

that was talking about this we

20:22

dove deep. Yeah, so this person

20:25

had laid out each individual

20:25

frame of that suppose that scene

20:30

where the knife breaks the skin,

20:30

supposedly, and they said that

20:34

they thought that it didn't

20:34

actually break the skin, it was

20:36

just kind of pressing into the

20:36

skin enough to make it look like

20:40

it was Yeah. And the way they

20:40

were able to make it so precise

20:44

and able to stop the knife

20:44

before it went in. This person

20:48

was speculating that it was

20:48

actually a reverse shot. And

20:53

they had started with a knife

20:53

pressed into Marion's torso and

20:57

then pulled back and they had

20:57

analyzed like the water droplets

21:00

and the way the shower and the

21:00

wit like the water was moving.

21:04

To come to this conclusion, this

21:04

person was really serious about

21:06

this. So I don't know if that's

21:06

true if it hasn't been

21:10

corroborated by Hitchcock

21:10

himself, because he's no longer

21:13

around. So I thought that was

21:13

interesting. Yeah.

21:15

So can we take a step

21:15

back? That was a lot of good

21:17

information. And it's really

21:17

notable that the censorship

21:20

played a big role in sort of

21:20

shaping a lot of those scenes of

21:23

the film. But what what's your

21:23

sort of gut reaction to the film

21:25

like, did you first of all, did you like it?

21:27

I did like it. I liked the

21:27

plot, twist the fact

21:30

that the who the person

21:30

who you think the main character

21:32

is dies partway through or the

21:32

end? Is that

21:36

Yeah, and that his mother

21:36

is dead. And you know, a lot of

21:40

movies, they'll talk about how

21:40

the audience first reacted when

21:44

it was shown, like they were

21:44

screaming in the theater in

21:46

hysteria. And it was the same

21:46

with this movie. I heard a lot

21:50

about that. And this is maybe

21:50

the first movie I've seen, where

21:54

I can understand why the

21:54

audience was screaming like

21:57

that, you know, yeah, I get that

21:57

same feeling. And I wasn't

22:01

screaming while I was watching

22:01

it, obviously. But I felt I felt

22:04

what I thought the audience felt

22:04

when they saw it. And that's

22:08

something that can be hard to

22:08

achieve, even what 60 plus years

22:13

later,

22:14

yeah, Hitchcock was doing

22:14

an interview with Francois

22:17

Truffaut, another director,

22:17

Hitchcock said that he felt like

22:20

he was playing the audience like

22:20

a musical instrument. And I can

22:25

see that because by the end of

22:25

the movie, when Marian sister

22:28

rushes into the cellar and

22:28

discovers the corpse of the

22:32

mother, I felt like I've been

22:32

driving up this hill, you know,

22:36

just and you just hit the peak

22:36

this like crescendo of anxiety

22:42

and like tension. Yeah. And it

22:42

just bursts at that moment.

22:45

You're just like, oh, my gosh,

22:48

yeah, it's great. The

22:48

reveal, and the fact that it's

22:51

in black and white too, I think

22:51

is really good, because I think

22:55

they didn't have to worry as

22:55

much about making it look super

22:58

realistic, because it was in

22:58

black and white. And I think

23:01

there's also something about

23:01

that, that it seems to be almost

23:05

a restriction. And a lot of

23:05

times restrictions can act to

23:11

make you more creative or

23:11

inventive, or give you more

23:15

ideas. And there's this one

23:15

thing that you pointed out to me

23:19

was that in the beginning of the

23:19

movie, Marian is wearing I think

23:23

it's like a white bra and a

23:23

white slip. Yeah. And after she

23:27

decides to embezzle the money

23:27

and take it for herself. She's

23:31

wearing a black bra and a black

23:31

slip. Yeah. Which is definitely

23:36

on purpose. For sure. For sure.

23:36

It's symbolism and it's within

23:39

the black and white. And I think

23:39

it's really cool.

23:42

And there's there's so

23:42

many like moments where

23:44

characters move in and out of

23:44

shadow. And yeah, you know, it's

23:47

interesting that Alfred

23:47

Hitchcock actually, so he was

23:50

doing his Hitchcock Presents TV

23:50

show at the same time. And so he

23:54

let me see if I can get all this

23:54

straight. He was with Paramount

23:58

at the time, right and

23:58

universal. So this movie was

24:02

produced by Paramount but filmed

24:02

at Universal Studios, because he

24:05

was moving there.

24:06

Yeah. And also Paramount

24:06

highly disapproved of him making

24:11

this movie, they were so

24:11

adamantly against it. I don't

24:15

understand

24:16

how that happens, where they can be against something but still contracts in the film

24:17

industry. Seems so complicated.

24:22

Yeah. So he had a very

24:22

small budget, even for that

24:27

time.

24:28

It was he wanted to have

24:28

a small budget. Yeah, it was,

24:30

I think 800,000 or

24:30

something like that. And he

24:35

actually decided to forego his

24:35

usual salary. What was his usual

24:39

salary?

24:40

So like tuner like

24:40

$125,000.

24:44

And he decided that he

24:44

wanted all the money to go

24:47

towards the production because

24:47

it had to because he

24:51

would be like, 25% of the

24:51

entire budget. Well, yeah. Which

24:53

is his money, so he

24:54

decided instead to take

24:54

60% What was it? Yeah.

24:57

60% of the gross The

24:57

revenue from the film

25:01

and which turned out to be

25:01

a lot of money. Yeah, so I guess

25:05

he's happy he made that

25:05

decision. Yeah, he made a ton of

25:07

money off of it. Yeah. And he

25:07

still managed to make an

25:10

incredible movie with not that

25:10

much money.

25:13

Okay, so the worldwide

25:13

box office for psycho, was $32

25:20

million. Well, I can't remember

25:20

what the Blair Witch costume

25:24

revenue was. I think it was a

25:24

higher ratio. But this is pretty

25:28

good. Yeah, the reason I

25:28

mentioned the Hitchcock Presents

25:31

TV show is because he used his

25:31

TV crew. Yeah, mind you. I mean,

25:35

it wasn't just like they were

25:35

talented. Obvious. Yeah, right.

25:38

Like it. It's film. It's, it

25:38

doesn't feel like a TV show. As

25:43

a movie, definitely. Although he

25:43

did consider splitting this

25:47

movie up into two parts and then

25:47

airing it on TV and stuff

25:50

releasing it in theaters. Yeah.

25:50

Can you imagine? Like, just

25:53

what? I wonder if he would still

25:53

be considered as iconic if that

25:57

had happened? Yeah, so he used

25:57

his TV crew. And it was not a

26:01

shoestring budget, but it was a

26:01

cheap for a film and 60. Part of

26:04

what he said about that was that

26:04

he had seen all these like indie

26:07

films, cheap indie films come

26:07

out black and white indie films.

26:10

He's like, but what if somebody

26:10

did a really good job? Which is

26:15

both like kind of a dig, I

26:15

guess. But also sort of like,

26:18

well, I'm the guy. Yeah. But it

26:18

was good. Because, you know, he

26:21

was he was doing like big money

26:21

pictures. Like I think he just

26:24

done North by Northwest. Yeah.

26:24

And you know, those were like

26:28

big stars, big money, big

26:28

production, you know, on

26:31

location, all sorts of crazy

26:31

stuff. And it was. So this was a

26:37

big shift.

26:38

Yeah. I think what his

26:38

assistant said in an interview

26:42

was that he had read the book

26:42

psycho. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Robert

26:49

Bloch. Yes, I think so. Yeah.

26:49

Robert Bork. Yep. So he'd read

26:53

psycho. And he said, we have to

26:53

do this book. One of the major

26:57

changes he made from the book to

26:57

the movie was in the book.

27:01

Norman Bates is supposed to be a

27:01

pretty unlikable man.

27:06

Oh, yeah. Right, right.

27:06

Yeah. He's like a slob. And he's

27:08

lays rose. He's

27:10

an alcoholic. Yeah. And

27:10

he, yeah, he owns a lot of porn

27:14

or something in the book, that

27:14

they almost never I mean,

27:17

because you know, in the movie,

27:17

they can't really show that.

27:21

Yeah. I think it's just, it's

27:21

almost just adjusted once when

27:26

Marian sister is in Norman's

27:26

room, and she picks up a book

27:30

and it's just a shot of her eyes

27:30

wide. Right.

27:32

I

27:32

forgot about that. Really?

27:32

The only time right where it was

27:35

in the book is a lot more heavy

27:35

handed with that. Yeah. But

27:38

yeah, that's right. It's

27:38

a book with a blank spine. And

27:40

yeah, I guess that was the 1960s

27:40

code for like, this is a naughty

27:45

pictures book or something? I don't know.

27:47

Yeah, I don't know. But so

27:47

he really wanted the viewer to

27:51

be sympathetic with Norman. So

27:51

he made him different, like much

27:56

different than he was in the

27:56

book. And that's because halfway

28:00

through Norwin, becomes the main

28:00

character, Marian dies, which I

28:05

think was a big shock for me. So

28:05

I can't imagine what audiences

28:08

then thought of that like

28:08

switch. So no one becomes the

28:13

main character. And at that

28:13

point, you have to start rooting

28:15

for him. Yeah. And by the

28:17

way, so this was written

28:17

by Joseph Stefano, who was a

28:19

really young writer.

28:20

And I think he had only

28:20

written one thing prior. Yes.

28:24

And it's very unusual for

28:24

Hitchcock to work with a young

28:26

artist.

28:27

I think he was reluctant.

28:27

But there was some scene that

28:30

he'd written was at the opening

28:30

scene, I think, I think it was,

28:34

yeah. And so Alfred Hitchcock

28:34

took him home with him. And he

28:37

came back and he said, Oh, my

28:37

loves it. That's right. Yeah.

28:41

His wife. Yeah. We just I think

28:41

someone I think his assistant

28:45

said something like that was

28:45

code for it's really good. And

28:48

you're hired. Yeah. Yeah. And

28:48

it's because I think someone,

28:52

someone else prior to Joseph

28:52

Stefano had written the, like

28:57

the entire script for psycho.

28:57

And Hitchcock didn't like,

29:00

Yeah, this is not

29:00

uncommon, by the way. Yeah,

29:02

there's a podcast that I really

29:02

like called best movies ever

29:05

made. Which if you like film,

29:05

you know, it's it's a film nerds

29:09

dream, because they talk just

29:09

about films that never get made,

29:12

or versions of films that

29:12

didn't. Yeah, it's amazing how

29:15

scripts get produced in

29:15

Hollywood. So yeah, he worked

29:18

with Joseph Stano. They did a

29:18

really tight story with some

29:21

really interesting twists. They

29:21

take their like lead actor and

29:26

kill her halfway through. Yeah.

29:26

Which is unimaginable, right.

29:30

Like it's the kind of the

29:30

ultimate bait and switch.

29:33

Right. Something else is

29:33

that a lot of the parts I think

29:36

were written for the actors who

29:36

played them. Yeah. And I think

29:40

it's great. I think especially

29:40

Norman Bates. Really well, yeah.

29:43

Yeah. Anthony Perkins plays

29:43

Norman Bates. He did a really

29:47

good job at it. And who plays

29:47

Mary? Generally? Yeah. Okay,

29:51

sorry.

29:51

Yeah. Yeah, played by

29:51

Janet Lee. And, of course,

29:55

mother of Jamie Lee Curtis.

29:56

I think they were they

29:56

were both really Good in their

30:00

roles, because they're both very

30:00

nuanced roles. You know, Marian

30:04

has committed a crime, but it's

30:04

not because she's a criminal.

30:09

It's because she wants to get

30:09

married. You know, she knows

30:13

nothing about it's not

30:14

because she's a criminal. It's because she's a person. Yeah, like, isn't that that's

30:16

kind of, I think one of the, I

30:20

don't know, that's how I read

30:20

these characters is like, we all

30:23

have a little madness in us. We

30:23

all have a little darkness in

30:26

us. Yeah.

30:27

And Marian is able to

30:27

overcome that she decides to go

30:31

back and deliver the money to

30:31

where it's supposed to be right.

30:35

And face the consequences of

30:35

embezzling $40,000. That's after

30:39

she has her talk with Norman in

30:39

his parlor, which is a great

30:43

scene in the movie, maybe one of

30:43

the best, because you kind of

30:46

get a sense that Norman is a

30:46

little bit off. Yeah, there's

30:51

something inside him that's

30:51

different

30:54

in at that point, I think

30:54

it's still very possible to read

30:57

his character as just a little

30:57

odd and off. Yes, he's a little

31:00

like, overly controlled by his

31:00

mother, or you know, is

31:04

development is stunted

31:04

emotionally or something like

31:07

that. Yeah. And not necessarily

31:07

like, oh, by the ways, it's got

31:10

to slip

31:10

out. Yeah. One of the

31:10

great things about the movie is

31:13

that at first when we first meet

31:13

Norman, I didn't guess that he

31:18

was the psycho, you know, yeah,

31:18

I, I asked you and you said

31:23

something like, Oh, he's too nice to be

31:25

nice. I didn't say no. I

31:25

remember, like, very carefully,

31:28

kind of want to,

31:30

like, oh, and I believe

31:30

you because he is so nice. In

31:33

the beginning. There's no hint

31:33

that he, he's crazy.

31:37

I love you know, that

31:37

performance by Anthony Perkins

31:40

is amazing.

31:41

I know. And

31:42

you like him immediately. I

31:44

like no ugly. Yeah, he's,

31:44

he's just a nice guy. And then

31:48

you feel like, within 30

31:48

seconds, you are feeling

31:52

sympathy for this guy. And like

31:52

his hotels on hard times. He's

31:56

still chipper about it, and

31:56

still trying to like, you know,

31:59

keep his chin up.

31:59

And that's what helps. I

31:59

think when Marian dies. That's

32:02

what helps the audience to lock

32:02

on to Norman instead of Marion

32:07

is because before earlier in the

32:07

movie, they've already

32:10

established this kind of warm

32:10

feeling about him. And even if

32:13

that's kind of slipped, yeah,

32:13

after the parlor discussion, it

32:17

comes right back up once Marian

32:17

dies.

32:20

That's actually a really

32:20

good point. There's a scene so

32:23

Norman Norman mother nominally

32:23

right, we hear her voice and

32:28

Norman and his mother have a

32:28

confrontation up in the house,

32:30

he rushes back down, discovers

32:30

Mary's body kind of has a

32:34

breakdown. Again, further

32:34

cementing the fact that we think

32:37

like, oh, this is you know, it's

32:37

not him. It's his mom's crazy.

32:39

Yeah. And then he like pulls

32:39

himself together decides he has

32:43

to hide the body in order to

32:43

protect his mom you assume and

32:47

and take care of her

32:47

possessions, stuffs everything

32:49

to do with her car, and it

32:49

drives her car into like a

32:53

swamp, basically.

32:54

Yeah. And there's a scene

32:54

where you're watching the car.

32:57

Yeah. Sink slowly into the mud.

32:57

Yes. And Norman is standing

33:03

there watching eating his candy

33:03

corn as he does,

33:06

which is which was an

33:06

improv. Yeah. at Perkins. Love

33:09

it.

33:10

There's a point where the

33:10

car stops in the mud. And you

33:12

can still see the top of it. And

33:12

Norman kind of freezes and looks

33:16

at

33:16

it. You freeze as the

33:16

audience right here.

33:19

You're waiting your breath

33:19

to keep going. Yeah. So at this

33:22

point, you're with Norman. Yeah,

33:24

I think it's that pause

33:24

that just that to me. That's

33:28

Hitchcock's mastery. Yeah.

33:28

Right. It's like if the if the

33:30

car had just like sunk straight

33:30

down, you might still kind of be

33:33

like, this guy. But because

33:33

there's like, literally just

33:38

like five seconds where you're

33:38

like, waiting for the car to

33:40

continue sinking. Yeah, I saw

33:40

that. And I'm like, oh, maybe he

33:44

can cover the car up. Maybe he

33:44

can. What can you do? Maybe if

33:48

you get some brush or some

33:48

branches or something, you know,

33:50

like I'm like strategizing what

33:50

he what he can do. I'm like, all

33:53

of a sudden, I'm in his mindset.

33:53

All the sudden I'm on his side.

33:56

Yeah, five seconds. He

33:56

completely gets us to switch

33:59

allegiance. Yeah, amazing.

34:00

So we watched the remake a

34:00

little bit of that. But one of

34:05

the criticisms we had is how

34:05

stiff the actors seem, because

34:10

it is a shot for shot line for

34:10

line remake. Yes, there's no

34:15

there's no originality. And

34:15

because those parts are not

34:18

written for the actors in the

34:18

remake. It doesn't work.

34:21

I like Gus Van Sant. I

34:21

don't like that remake. And it

34:25

is it's exactly for that reason.

34:25

We talked about constraints

34:28

before like, you know, you can

34:28

be constrained by budget, you

34:30

can be constrained by format

34:30

film stock, you know, black and

34:33

white. In a way you could say,

34:33

well, Gus Van Zandt, you know,

34:36

wanted to do an homage here and

34:36

the constraint was to do a shot

34:41

by shot word by word

34:41

reproduction of psycho, and you

34:45

could still find ways to be

34:45

creative within them. I just

34:49

felt like if you're gonna try to

34:49

have that as your constraint you

34:52

really need to excel or exceed

34:52

in other areas. And it didn't,

34:56

you know, really didn't Yeah,

34:56

the actors did feel wooden. They

34:59

seem constraint, like, you can't

34:59

do any I mean, you're acting I

35:03

guess, but it's like doing

35:03

Shakespeare almost. Yeah. And I

35:06

guess there's an argument to be

35:06

made for do it, treat it like

35:09

that and just say, Well, we are

35:09

it's like we're doing, you know,

35:11

a Shakespeare play. We're just

35:11

gonna be very loyal to the

35:14

original material. Yeah, but,

35:14

but the point is that in the

35:17

original material, a lot of it

35:17

was

35:20

improv. Yeah. And one of

35:20

the other things that shouldn't

35:23

say improv

35:23

that makes it sound to

35:23

off the cuff, but it was like

35:25

they really made the scenes

35:25

their own, and they did

35:28

improvise a lot of them. And

35:28

there were a couple scenes

35:31

actually, like Arbogast and

35:31

Norman Bates, the detective and

35:36

Norman Bates when they're they're talking for the first time. Yeah, like that. seen the

35:38

film twice. And the second one

35:41

was the one that they used,

35:41

because they both wanted to

35:44

improv a little bit. Yeah,

35:44

and they can't do that in the

35:46

remake and one of the other

35:46

things in the remake that I

35:49

don't know whose choice it was

35:49

maybe the actor or maybe they

35:52

thought it would just be better

35:52

this way. But Norman right off

35:55

the bat is creepy. There's no

35:55

warm sense of companionship or

36:00

anything he does is the actor

36:00

does this thing where his laugh

36:04

is a little was kind of a

36:04

stereotypical metaclass. Yeah,

36:08

so right away, you get a weird

36:08

feeling from him, which I think

36:12

one of the great parts of the

36:12

original movie is that he's not

36:16

like that at first. Yeah, you

36:16

like him? He's like, Yeah, and

36:18

in the remake you lose that

36:30

which talk a little bit

36:30

about the origin of psycho, the

36:33

book. Yes. Movie. Where this

36:33

comes from? Yeah. So goes goes

36:38

back to my my hometown. My home

36:38

my stomping grounds. Wisconsin,

36:43

Wisconsin.

36:44

This is a little bit

36:44

disturbing. Yeah, this part so

36:48

yeah, just a heads up about a

36:48

real serious No, who add to gain

36:52

is he was a serial killer from

36:52

Wisconsin

36:57

litter. And I'm not

36:57

joking. Like, probably. He's

37:00

like a stone's throw from the

37:00

town I grew up in not more than

37:03

maybe 30 minute drive away.

37:05

Yeah. So little

37:05

disturbing, but his case is

37:10

pretty famous. Yeah. Because of

37:10

the things that they found in

37:13

his house after he was caught.

37:13

This is the part that's really

37:17

gets kind of gory. In his house.

37:17

They found objects made out of

37:22

human skin.

37:24

Yeah. It was basically it

37:24

was like taxidermy and

37:27

stuff like famously

37:27

lampshade. Yeah, like tights

37:31

made out of someone's skin. It

37:31

was pretty disturbing stuff. He

37:37

said in his that he was trying

37:37

to become his mother.

37:42

So this serial killer

37:42

inspires many different films.

37:45

Yeah, psycho Texas Chainsaw

37:45

Massacre, Silence of the Lambs.

37:49

Like there's a whole series of

37:49

films, because a minute is a

37:52

horrific events, which really

37:52

becomes kind of seared into the

37:56

American psyche.

37:57

Because it's hard to

37:57

imagine how anyone could it's

38:01

it's horrific. It's like,

38:01

absolute horror. You know, one

38:05

of the ways I think that we do

38:05

process the horror of real

38:09

events is through fiction is

38:09

through cinema. Right? So this

38:14

is sort of our collective

38:14

dreaming and processing of

38:17

terrible events that that happened.

38:19

Yeah. And it produces

38:19

things like psycho. Yeah. And in

38:23

psycho. Obviously, it's much

38:23

more tainted. Now. The biggest

38:26

similarity, I think, is between

38:26

his relationship with his

38:29

mother. Right. And that's a big

38:29

part of it is that he is

38:33

becoming his mother. Yes, he

38:33

doesn't skin people. He doesn't

38:37

do anything like that. He just

38:37

dresses up as his mother. And

38:40

although he does, he did

38:40

taxidermy his mother. Basically,

38:43

were trying to show her body

38:45

yeah, to preserve it, and

38:45

he act as if she's alive. He

38:50

speaks in her voice. The

38:50

creepiness is that he really

38:54

does believe that he is his

38:54

mother. There's a scene at the

38:59

end. That's yeah, let's talk

38:59

about the sleep debated. After

39:03

Norman Bates has been caught,

39:03

the psychiatrist is talking to

39:08

who is I think it's just Sam and

39:08

Marian sister. Who else is

39:12

there.

39:12

The cops were there?

39:12

Yeah. Probably the district

39:15

attorney is there is anything

39:15

like it's a whole mess of Yes,

39:18

Sam in the in Marion sister

39:18

there as well. I believe. It's a

39:22

weird scene. It almost feels

39:22

like a courtroom scene.

39:25

So the psychiatrist is

39:25

just explaining everything.

39:29

Yeah, much that has gone on in

39:29

Norman's mind and

39:34

monologues for like 510

39:34

Min. It feels like a long time.

39:37

So when I first watched

39:37

it, I didn't particularly notice

39:42

that seen as something that

39:42

seemed off about the movie plays

39:46

I understand where some people

39:46

are coming from with their

39:49

criticisms of it. It's like how

39:49

in some movies, they hold your

39:52

hand and they explain

39:54

what's going on through

39:54

dialogue. Watch this movie. Now

39:56

we're going to explain what happened.

39:58

I mean, maybe it was

39:58

different than I The time maybe

40:01

some audiences needed that, you

40:01

know, what he's saying is pretty

40:04

much like Norma has a split

40:04

personality. He thinks he is his

40:07

mother and he had at times he

40:07

asked for her. And then there's

40:11

also a whole part about his

40:11

mother's backstory about how

40:14

Norman's father died. And then

40:14

his mother finds someone else.

40:18

And Normann kills them both.

40:20

It basically lays out the

40:20

entire backstory, but it does it

40:23

in very scientific or at least

40:23

pseudo scientific language. My

40:26

read on that is twofold. So one,

40:26

I think there's a little bit of

40:30

explaining stuff going on where

40:30

you're just like, Okay, we're

40:32

gonna tell this audience now

40:32

what they just saw. I think

40:35

there's a little bit of that.

40:35

Yeah. What's interesting is that

40:38

scene with a psychiatrist was

40:38

shot basically, in one take, the

40:41

guy gets up does the whole

40:41

monologue, which is actually I

40:46

think well acted.

40:46

Yeah, no, I think the

40:46

actor is good in that scene.

40:49

They have criticisms of the

40:49

scene, not the performance, you

40:52

know, if Sure,

40:53

exactly. Yeah. He's done

40:53

all that. He finishes the

40:57

monologue, the crew breaks into

40:57

applause. They're like, wow,

40:59

that was really good. Good job.

40:59

I'd be impressed, too, right.

41:02

Alfred Hitchcock says, you've

41:02

just saved my film, I think, you

41:05

know, him saying that is not

41:05

like it while everything else

41:08

was trashed. But this, this

41:08

performance is really gonna save

41:10

it. I think what he's saying my

41:10

interpretation of that was that

41:13

you're saving up from the

41:13

censors, because you could look

41:16

at the film, if you cut out that

41:16

scene, you could look at the

41:18

film as just sort of like very

41:18

sensationalist kind of

41:21

exploitation cinema where it's

41:21

like, Ooh, there's like some

41:23

sexy stuff in the beginning. And

41:23

then we have some bloody murder

41:27

stuff and what's titillating?

41:27

And if you just leave it at

41:30

that, I can imagine the sensors

41:30

getting their back up and being

41:32

like, whoa, I'm a little you

41:32

know, this is too much. Yeah.

41:35

But if you then say, Oh, by the

41:35

way, it's all very

41:38

psychological. Very scientific.

41:38

Yeah. Then it sort of makes it

41:43

okay. And more palatable in a

41:43

way for the sensors, because

41:46

you've then set it in, in sort

41:46

of like, scientifically, yeah.

41:49

And the end the monologue

41:49

at the end of Norman. Well,

41:53

actually, it's not Norman. It's

41:53

his mother.

41:56

Right. So after the

41:56

psychiatrist does his monologue,

41:59

the scene cuts to Norman alone

41:59

in a cell talking to himself in

42:02

his head, basically. Yeah. But

42:02

it's his mother talking to

42:05

herself.

42:06

Yeah. And it's really

42:06

interesting. And I think your

42:09

relationship with your mother is

42:09

very important in your life, and

42:14

especially for a boy alone,

42:14

shout out

42:17

to front of the show, say just mother.

42:20

You know, there's this

42:20

whole thing with like Freud.

42:24

Yeah.

42:26

Like, you know, fried.

42:29

When you say Freud, they

42:31

think of Mother issues.

42:34

Yeah, that's that whole

42:34

thing, the idea that he had

42:37

about the relationship between a

42:37

boy and his mother, mind you,

42:40

this was based off of a real

42:40

story. That's what's kind of so

42:44

disturbing about her. So who

42:44

said it, we were watching the

42:48

making make the making of

42:48

someone said that is what makes

42:52

it so horrifying is that it was

42:52

based off of something real and

42:57

that it kind of solidifies it in

42:57

the audience's mind.

43:10

Speaking of the so the

43:10

book and the, you know, the real

43:14

events and everything, one of

43:14

the things I wanted to mention

43:16

about the book is that after

43:16

Hitchcock bought the rights to

43:19

the book in California, at least

43:19

Yeah, he bought up every copy of

43:23

the book, you could find it so

43:23

interesting, because his goal

43:25

like this is not like there was

43:25

no Amazon, it was like, you

43:28

could just go and just like, buy

43:28

up all the books. And he did

43:31

that so that it wouldn't be

43:31

available to read. Because he

43:34

felt that the mystery The

43:34

surprise was so critical to the

43:38

success of the film. Yeah. And

43:38

he had like, advertising when

43:41

the film was released, he was

43:41

like, Please don't tell what

43:44

surprises. Like it's amazing

43:44

that you could do that. Like,

43:48

yeah, please don't say Don't

43:48

tell anybody. Okay. Yeah, no

43:51

spoilers. And it worked, I

43:51

guess, you know, and oh, and the

43:54

other weird thing about that,

43:54

just as long as we're talking

43:56

about the marketing, is that it

43:56

was not uncommon for theaters is

44:01

kind of like play the same film,

44:01

like, again, and again and again

44:04

during the day. And people kind

44:04

of wander in and out of the

44:06

theater, not necessarily at the

44:06

like, top of the hour top of the

44:10

showing. And so they might go

44:10

into the film like partway

44:12

through, right. Yeah. And he was

44:12

adamant that they couldn't do

44:16

that, that they wouldn't be

44:16

allowed into the theater. And he

44:18

had signs to that effect and all

44:18

sorts of stuff. They had like a

44:21

special record album that they

44:21

had pressed, that would play in

44:24

the lobby of the theater, and it

44:24

would be like 10 minutes to

44:27

psycho time, five minutes, a

44:27

psycho time. He was like really

44:29

focused on people going in at

44:29

the right time to see the film.

44:33

And again, it's because he was

44:33

like, I'm playing the audience.

44:35

The audience is my instrument.

44:38

Yeah. And it's because you

44:38

know, people will go in and

44:41

they'll expect a Janet Lee

44:41

movie. And if they go in after

44:46

she has been murdered, they

44:46

won't be here.

44:50

Yeah, I mean, also, I

44:50

think, you know, he wanted them

44:53

to really experience that whole

44:54

arc, but I'm really I'm

44:54

really glad that he was. He was

44:58

adamant about that because Yeah,

44:58

it is such a big part of the

45:02

movie. It's it's a serious

45:02

movie. You know, it's not a

45:05

movie that you could just worn up

45:07

laying around here. Yeah.

45:07

Yeah. No, it's It's that's

45:11

needed. I think it had a huge

45:11

impact on just the way people

45:14

saw movies after that. Yeah.

45:14

became more of a thing to go in

45:17

and see the whole movie. Yeah.

45:18

Because now it would be

45:18

unthinkable to go in just

45:23

halfway through and then wander

45:23

out, you know, right. There's

45:25

specific times specific

45:25

showings, you know, to see a

45:29

movie from start to finish.

45:31

Yeah. It's true. I can't

45:31

stand it when people wander in.

45:36

I have the knee that I

45:36

feel like I need to go over and

45:39

explain to them what has

45:39

happened. I did catch

45:42

up just a couple minutes.

45:42

But I'm here to help. Yeah. All

45:48

right. I think that wraps it up.

45:50

Thanks for joining us on

45:50

this episode of the teen horror

45:53

cast. You can follow us on

45:53

Twitter and Instagram at teen

45:57

horror cast where we'd love to

45:57

hear from you. Let us know what

46:00

films you'd like to hear us

46:00

review. See you next episode.

46:03

I'll see you then. Bye bye.

46:14

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46:19

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