0:00

What's up everybody ? Troy Cartwright here

0:03

. Welcome back to another

0:05

episode of 10 Year Town . Before

0:07

we get going , we are very

0:10

, very close to our subscriber

0:13

goal on YouTube , so if

0:15

you can go to our YouTube page and hit subscribe

0:17

, it would help us out a ton . You

0:20

can do that at 10YearTowncom

0:23

. Hope you guys are having a great week , thanks

0:25

. Today's

0:28

guest is Tiara Kennedy . You

0:31

know Tiara from her feature on

0:33

the latest Beyonce record and

0:36

from her own music as well

0:38

. In this episode we

0:40

discuss her journey through Nashville

0:42

, the highs and the lows

0:44

, how she found some of her favorite collaborators

0:47

and the advice that she would give

0:49

to her younger self . I really

0:51

enjoyed this one . I know you guys will too . So

0:53

without further ado , here she is . I'm

0:57

making an executive decision . We're just going to roll no headphones

0:59

today because you got a cool hat

1:02

on .

1:02

I know I always make it difficult .

1:04

You and Cole Ford are the only people

1:06

that have not worn the headphones .

1:08

I like it .

1:08

Yeah .

1:10

I've really been into the hat thing lately

1:12

. It just like it's pretty sick . It

1:14

just makes it easier in the mornings , you know , not

1:16

actually having to do my hair

1:19

.

1:19

I feel like I want to do

1:21

like . I've gone through phases where I'm like

1:23

being the hat guy .

1:24

Yeah , you would like kill

1:27

a hat .

1:27

I feel like I don't know what kind of hat to

1:29

wear .

1:30

Like I feel like you could do like a short brim , like

1:33

a little like a fedora , maybe , Like a fedora

1:35

, but then I'm like a fedora guy

1:37

, but that's cool .

1:41

I don't think I want to be a fedora guy . I don't think I'm ready for that

1:43

yet .

1:43

I feel like that's like a , it's a commitment . I feel it .

1:46

Like I already feel like I'm

1:48

getting old oh my gosh .

1:50

No , you would pull it off . I feel like hats

1:52

, just like they make any outfit cooler . I

1:55

have confidence .

1:56

Are we rolling ? Awesome , I

2:00

feel like . When

2:02

was the last time I saw you ? It

2:05

was some award show at the Ryman .

2:07

Award show , ACM Honors maybe

2:09

.

2:09

Yeah , that's probably what it was . I couldn't remember if it was that or AI

2:12

, whatever the there's

2:15

a lot of award shows .

2:16

Oh yeah , I think it was .

2:17

ACM Honors , though I think you're right .

2:19

What is the writers award ? Is it AIMP

2:22

Awards ? Yeah , yeah , maybe it was that one , I can't remember

2:24

.

2:24

I've been to like three there , I feel like in the last

2:26

year . I know yeah so yeah

2:29

also I didn't realize .

2:31

I just played there the other day for a

2:33

Patsy Cline tribute show , which

2:35

was really fun , but I'd like I've never

2:37

really been like backstage . I

2:39

never have it's like cramp

2:41

back there .

2:42

It's tiny . Yeah

2:45

, how many dressing rooms are there ?

2:47

I mean there's a good bit of dressing rooms . But okay , to be

2:49

fair , the first lady was there , so

2:52

you know , they kind of like took

2:54

over . There was some stuff going on , yeah

2:56

there was a lot of stuff going on .

2:58

Because I just went and

3:00

did a thing

3:02

at the Opry for the first time which I'd never been there before

3:04

and did a thing at the Opry

3:06

for the first time which I'd never been there before and

3:08

their backstage is crazy huge .

3:10

Yeah , wait , did you make your debut ?

3:12

No , I didn't . I just went to meet

3:15

everybody they gave you a tour yeah

3:17

yeah , yeah , they do the whole thing .

3:19

Yeah .

3:21

Which was kind of insane being

3:24

there . It was so cool yeah

3:26

. I I was so heavy

3:28

is not the right word , but it feels

3:31

you feel very honored to

3:33

be there .

3:34

Yes , it . It's like you

3:36

feel the history of everyone that's been there yeah

3:39

, yeah .

3:39

And then you know I'm

3:42

toxic . So I'm like how

3:45

have I never

3:47

been , like when

3:49

? I was at this label , doing

3:51

all this stuff , like how did

3:54

I never do this ? Like what were they doing

3:56

?

3:57

Literally . I say that all

3:59

the time . What ? Are you doing .

4:01

Yeah so .

4:02

But yeah , that's awesome though . Yeah , the Opry's

4:04

cool . What are you doing ? Yeah , so , but yeah , that's awesome

4:06

though , but yeah , the Opry's cool . I always say it's like , um , it's like an artist's

4:08

Disney world you know , it's

4:10

just like everybody has their doors open

4:12

.

4:13

Everybody's so welcoming and yeah

4:15

, yeah it's so cool , it's good vibes

4:17

and it feels very , like

4:19

you said , historic yes but

4:22

it also . They

4:24

have a great way of making you feel

4:26

very welcome .

4:28

It's not stuffy at all . No , you know what

4:30

I mean . Yeah , it's . It's hard to explain , right

4:32

Like it's . It's magical . That's

4:34

the word that I would use , exactly .

4:36

So it's pretty cool . Um well

4:39

, I always start this thing off with the same question

4:41

, which is how long have you

4:43

been in town ?

4:45

off with the same question okay , which is how long

4:48

have you been in town ? I've been in town for eight years where

4:50

from ? I'm ? From Birmingham , alabama , nice , um , and when I moved here

4:52

my whole family moved up here with me so

4:54

they really yeah , so , my parents and

4:57

my two younger sisters . I have an older sister

4:59

. She's still um back in Birmingham , but

5:02

yeah , I brought them all here and

5:04

they love it yeah .

5:05

That's so cool , they're thriving . Did you , did

5:07

you move here like for were

5:10

you going to school , was it strictly for music or

5:12

what was kind of the- .

5:12

Definitely for music . Yeah , I wanted to go to

5:14

Belmont but it's super expensive

5:17

so I didn't . I

5:20

got basically a full ride scholarship

5:22

to University of North Alabama

5:24

, okay . So

5:26

I went there for a year and

5:29

it's pretty close to Nashville so I could like

5:31

come up here on the weekends

5:33

to like meet people and , you know , write sometimes

5:35

. But after

5:38

a year I

5:40

convinced my parents Well , actually the

5:42

town convinced my parents to move here , because

5:44

they were kind of like my momager

5:46

and dadager , so they would be in meetings .

5:48

Yeah .

5:49

And everyone was like if she

5:51

wants to be in country music , she has to be here , and

5:54

so they heard that . Enough to where they were like , okay

5:56

, we'll move .

5:56

They believed you . Yeah , yeah , how

5:58

did ? How ? Were you kind

6:00

of on sounds like you were on some

6:02

people's radar already at that

6:04

point . So how did ? How did ? Um

6:07

, I don't know , how did that kind of all start

6:09

?

6:09

yeah , so when I was in the

6:11

shul , in muscle shoals um , I

6:14

was riding a lot with

6:16

mike mcguire , um of

6:19

shannon doa , okay , and

6:21

he introduced me

6:23

to Laurel Kittleson , who

6:26

she was at Big Machine at the time and

6:29

she was like kind of one

6:32

of the first people I met in town and

6:35

she was just so great and like

6:37

introduced me to anybody

6:40

in the industry , like any writer , or

6:42

if there was another publisher that you know she

6:44

thought I would vibe with and

6:47

, yeah , she kind of put my foot

6:49

in the door .

6:50

That's so sick so

6:53

you move up here

6:55

, I guess . Yeah , bring the whole fam .

6:57

Yeah , brought the whole family . The day I moved

6:59

here . I

7:01

had a show at the listening room , which

7:04

was it was really cool for me to like

7:06

move here and immediately

7:09

hit the ground running because

7:12

, like I dreamed of being here

7:14

for so long and I was like I am

7:16

gonna work my hardest . So

7:19

, yeah , I played a show at the listening room and then kind

7:22

of like my thing when I first moved here was

7:24

just like I did like a lot of restaurant gigs

7:27

. I would play at the row in

7:29

Midtown , um

7:32

, and play like in hotel lobbies

7:34

and I just did that , yeah

7:36

, for like the first couple of years that's awesome

7:39

.

7:39

Just yeah , pays the bills right

7:41

yeah um , were you

7:43

at this point , had

7:45

you met

7:47

or were you working

7:50

with any publishers or anything like that , or

7:52

what was it kind of a ?

7:54

yeah , we like it , we'll see yes

7:56

, it was exactly that , and and

7:58

I didn't I didn't really know what

8:00

to expect moving here . Um

8:02

well , maybe I did . I did

8:05

have expectations and they were the wrong expectations

8:07

. I thought that I was going to like play

8:10

the bluebird and get discovered .

8:12

Totally , because that's the story I heard .

8:14

Yes , and then I realized that it's

8:16

very much so . Not that . And

8:20

you know , my goal was to sign a publishing deal

8:22

when I moved here and

8:25

I felt like it was

8:27

taking longer than it should

8:29

Totally

8:32

wasn't . I signed a publishing deal about

8:34

two years into moving here

8:36

, but I

8:39

am grateful that

8:42

it happened when it did and not when I

8:44

wanted it to , because I so was not ready

8:47

. Like my songs were not good

8:49

, they're not good .

8:50

It's hard when

8:52

you're young , too , or when you're getting started

8:55

.

8:55

Yeah .

8:56

You believe , your songs are there

8:58

.

8:58

Yeah .

8:59

You know , yeah , because you just don't have

9:01

the depth

9:04

of knowledge yet Exactly , and it's hard because

9:06

you're like . You

9:09

know , I feel like I was like a dog

9:11

, like straining on a leash or something .

9:13

Yeah , Just trying to like let me go

9:15

. Yeah , and , like I

9:17

, when I moved to Nashville , that

9:19

was my first time , one

9:22

of my first times co-writing I like

9:24

hadn't had a lot of experience doing

9:27

that because there's not really that kind of culture

9:29

in Birmingham . Yeah , um , and

9:31

so the only songs

9:33

I'd written were by myself and

9:35

, yeah , I thought

9:37

they were good , but they weren't . And because I went

9:39

and I got into the room with other writers that

9:42

were more experienced and have been here

9:44

for a long time and

9:46

I learned so much from

9:48

them and , yeah , definitely those first

9:50

couple of years my writing got so

9:52

much better .

9:53

Yeah , yeah , you

9:55

learn fast .

9:56

Yeah , you know yeah .

10:01

So your first publishing deal . Who was

10:03

it with ? And

10:05

how did it change your life oh my gosh .

10:08

So um , I

10:10

signed with uh songs

10:13

it's songs and daughters big loud and warner

10:15

um , and

10:17

sam jervie was at big

10:19

loud . She's . She's not there anymore . I

10:21

love sam I love her so much

10:23

, um we still , we still hang yeah

10:26

and I

10:28

still give her hell sometimes to leave me . But

10:32

yeah . So I met her and

10:34

we just were doing the

10:37

thing . I was like sending her songs and

10:39

she would send me feedback and

10:43

I didn't know that Songs and Daughters was

10:45

even a thought when we

10:47

were talking . I

10:51

obviously was a huge

10:53

fan of Nicole and

10:55

her writing and

10:57

she came to one of my listening

10:59

room shows and in

11:02

my mind I was like , okay , this is super

11:04

cool . Maybe

11:06

I'll get the chance to write with her . Never in a million

11:09

years would I think that I would sign a publishing deal

11:11

with her . I

11:13

think we , like , went back and forth for it

11:15

was probably another year it felt

11:18

like another year , you

11:20

know back and forth sending her songs . And then

11:23

one day she

11:25

called me and I was at the gym and

11:28

asked me if I wanted to sign a publishing deal and

11:30

I was like heck , yeah

11:32

, this is the best day ever .

11:33

That's so sick . Yeah , it's the best

11:35

call to get .

11:37

It's the best because it like . For

11:39

me it was like the first validation

11:41

of like okay , you're doing something right , yeah

11:44

, yeah , you didn't move

11:46

here for nothing .

11:47

Yeah , yeah , and

11:56

I've talked to a lot of publishers on

11:58

this podcast and just in general .

12:04

And I know a lot of publishers say like getting to offer a writer .

12:05

Their first deal is like the coolest thing

12:07

, yeah , even when I was going through my second

12:09

round , you know like , had my first deal

12:11

for five years and then was doing the publisher

12:14

dance again yeah . It was still

12:16

like I had a few offers

12:18

and every time I would get one I would be like

12:20

are you for real ? I know

12:22

it feels like it's the coolest feeling feels like you want

12:25

me , you like me .

12:25

Yeah , I mean , we all want to feel wanted , right

12:28

, you know ? Yeah and also I think , like

12:31

songwriting is such a like

12:33

you're kind of you're doing it

12:35

in a silo , you know , and and sometimes

12:38

like you don't really know if it's

12:40

good , and I think we all have imposter

12:42

syndrome , you know , and so like getting

12:45

offers from people that have been in the business , know

12:47

what they're doing , like that's definitely like

12:49

a good stamp of validation .

12:51

Oh , absolutely , yeah , yeah . Um

12:53

, so once you signed that

12:56

deal , did it sort of change the

12:58

the levels of rooms

13:00

that you were getting into with writers , or was it ? Was

13:02

it more of the same , or how did that kind of impact

13:05

your ?

13:06

writing career . Yeah , for sure , I definitely

13:11

felt like I . I

13:14

felt like I was getting into rooms

13:16

, I felt like I was honing in on

13:18

what my sound

13:20

was and who I wanted to

13:23

write with . And

13:25

yeah , definitely getting into

13:27

cooler rooms , which is

13:29

also super intimidating

13:32

too , like

13:34

even like having a publishing deal , like

13:37

there still is that imposter syndrome of like

13:39

am I actually good enough ? And so

13:41

you know , I , I

13:43

remember just like walking into these

13:45

rooms and like , oh my gosh , I hope that they're

13:48

not like , oh , this girl's a joke

13:50

, you

13:52

know . But yeah , I think that

13:54

was the most fun process

13:56

for me was like getting to be

13:59

in the room with new writers and figuring

14:01

out , you know , not necessarily

14:03

who I like and who I don't like , but like

14:05

I guess , like who understands

14:07

my sound , the most you know and like really

14:09

narrowing down that pool of writers .

14:11

Yeah , Finding your , your crew

14:13

.

14:14

I guess and yeah yeah , yeah

14:16

, it's you .

14:17

You start to realize , realize , oh , I'm getting

14:19

, not just I

14:22

. I like to think that every

14:24

song that I write is pretty good yeah

14:27

but it's finding the

14:29

people where I'm consistently getting um

14:32

if I'm writing for me as the artist yeah the

14:34

type of songs that I want to do as an

14:36

artist yes and then on

14:38

the other side of that is of course like okay

14:40

, these songs I'm writing with these people are getting

14:43

cut by other artists .

14:44

And that's cool too . So trying

14:46

to make sure I'm always

14:49

trying to be strategic

14:51

, I guess , yeah , which for me , like I've

14:54

never been the kind

14:56

of writer that wants

14:59

to write for other artists . I definitely

15:01

love writing for myself

15:04

.

15:04

It tortures me .

15:06

It's tough . It's

15:08

tough getting into the brain of another artist

15:11

and also being an artist myself . So

15:15

, yeah , I think that's definitely

15:17

been like an interesting thing to navigate

15:21

because my sound is so specific .

15:23

Yeah .

15:23

Um , you know R and B country

15:25

and um , it's kind of one

15:28

of those things where , like , you either get it or you don't

15:30

like you either grew up listening to that kind of music and

15:32

you just have that in you , Um , and

15:35

so , yeah , that that

15:37

was definitely um , and

15:40

I , you know , I think , still like writing with

15:42

new people . That's like you know , something

15:44

that I'm like trying to navigate

15:46

. But also , I think you've

15:49

, I think you figure out pretty quickly when

15:52

you start writing the song , whether or not it's going

15:54

to be for , whether it's going

15:56

to be for me or for another person , and

15:58

so I think also , I

16:01

, you know , try to be in the mindset of

16:03

, okay , I'm servicing the

16:05

song If it's not for me , like we're still going to write

16:07

a good song today .

16:08

Yeah , yeah , yeah . There is this

16:10

moment in

16:12

a write where it dawns on me this

16:15

one's not for me .

16:16

This is not .

16:16

Yeah , this

16:19

isn't going that way , but that's okay , I have to immediately adjust . Well

16:22

, I don't know , it's a slightly different mindset uh-huh

16:24

it is but I will say 90

16:28

plus percent

16:30

of every cut I've ever gotten . Not

16:32

on , that's not on me as an artist has

16:35

not been . Because I was . I was thinking we

16:37

were going to write for so and

16:39

so artists . It was always just it

16:41

just happened . I think it's for me or

16:44

I just think this is a great song , you

16:46

know , and somehow it finds a

16:48

way .

16:49

Yeah , that's so cool too , like when

16:51

you just randomly it's like , oh , this person

16:53

wants to cut this song . It's like , wow , okay . I was

16:55

like , yeah

17:01

, I've like I've , you know , had that happen a few times and you know , like I said , I'm not specifically

17:03

writing for other people , so it's always cool when

17:06

, when that does happen .

17:07

Oh , yeah , it's the best . Yeah , um

17:09

, all right , so got

17:12

this . You signed this publishing deal . You're

17:14

doing your thing .

17:15

Yep .

17:16

Um , so what ? What happens next ? You're doing

17:18

your thing , so what happens next ? What's the next waypoint

17:20

on the journey ?

17:21

Yeah , so I

17:23

started . Well

17:26

, I met my producer , Cameron Bedell

17:28

.

17:28

Love Cam .

17:38

We love him . He's also a pain in my side at the same time . He's like

17:40

my older brother and we wrote this song together . The

17:43

first song we ever wrote together was called

17:45

Founded in you , and

17:52

it was a two-way which , like you know , those can be terrifying sometimes because you don't know

17:54

if you're going to vibe or not . And we wrote this

17:56

song and he sent me the demo . I was like whoa , this is exactly what

17:58

I've been trying to say

18:02

as an artist and

18:05

the exact sound that I was looking for

18:07

, and so I

18:09

had to do a little bit of convincing for

18:12

him to be my producer , because

18:15

that wasn't his thing . He hadn't dabbled

18:17

into the producer world yet . And

18:21

so , yeah , I finally convinced him and

18:23

we just we started

18:25

making music together , put

18:28

that song out , and then I put an EP

18:30

together , put that out

18:32

, and we did all of that independently .

18:34

And .

18:35

I didn't really have like any you

18:37

know expectations around it . I just

18:39

I knew that I had , I

18:41

had found a thing and , um

18:44

, I wanted people to hear it and

18:46

so , um , yeah

18:49

, that was kind of . That was kind of the next step after

18:51

I signed my publishing deal .

18:53

That's awesome . Yeah , yeah , Um

18:55

yeah . I remember when all that stuff was was

18:58

coming out . Um , it's really , it's

19:00

really cool , it's different .

19:01

Yeah , I remember when all that stuff was coming out . It's really cool , it's different . Yeah , you

19:03

know .

19:04

Yeah , it felt like you . Yeah , it felt like something fresh yeah . And

19:06

we need that , you know .

19:07

Yeah , it was . Yeah

19:10

, it's really fun thinking back

19:12

to making that music

19:14

, because there definitely there

19:16

was no , we

19:19

just had to create , like there wasn't a lot of opinions

19:21

around what it should be , which was a lot

19:23

of cooks in the kitchen . Yes

19:25

, it was the best , it was the best feeling

19:28

. Um and

19:30

yeah , that that's founded new just like took

19:33

off , yeah , um it's

19:35

. And it was like over covet

19:38

too , um , over over the pandemic . It

19:40

got like it landed on a hot country

19:42

and got like over 20 million streams

19:44

and just it really

19:46

like catapulted me , um , you

19:49

know , to a place that I didn't . I

19:52

didn't think that I was ready yet , but

19:54

we , we dove in . Yeah , like record

19:56

labels started reaching out and I was like , okay , I

19:58

guess we're doing this yeah , and what was

20:01

that process like when they started

20:03

reaching out ? well , it was funny

20:05

like the first few

20:07

started to reach out and I was like , okay

20:10

, this is fun . I get to like kind

20:12

of experience , what this is like , but I definitely

20:14

am not looking to sign

20:16

a record deal right now

20:19

. And then more

20:22

started to reach out and we

20:24

started to take meetings and it

20:26

got serious and I was like , okay , this

20:28

is happening . This

20:31

is happening . You know , I had reservations

20:33

around it because I've been independent for

20:35

so long and I

20:37

loved it Like

20:40

I was thriving . Me and my husband

20:42

. My husband's my creative director and

20:44

you know we've always just created

20:47

content together and kind of , you know , built

20:49

this together and I didn't want

20:51

to lose that . You know

20:53

because I'd heard stories of how

20:56

record duels go . It was

20:58

terrifying .

20:58

Yeah .

20:59

You know . But also , on the other hand , I was like , well

21:02

, maybe this is

21:04

my moment and maybe

21:06

I should take advantage of it while it's here

21:08

, yeah , and

21:11

so , yeah

21:13

, we started taking the meetings

21:15

and took

21:18

a meeting with Bing Machine and

21:20

Valerie and

21:23

I it was . It was

21:25

funny because I like I

21:27

just I didn't know what to expect . Going into

21:29

that meeting . I , you know , I played him a couple

21:32

of songs and they kept

21:34

asking for more songs and

21:36

I was like , at this point , I don't

21:38

know , I don't even remember that many original

21:41

songs , I'm going to have to start playing you some covers . Then

21:46

they offered me a deal on

21:48

the spot . Wow , and again I was like

21:50

, okay , I guess we're doing

21:52

this .

21:52

Yeah , that's crazy .

21:54

Yeah , it was wild .

21:56

That's crazy

21:58

. Yeah , it was wild , and did you ? Did it go back and forth

22:00

for a while , or was it ? Was it pretty ? Did it all happen

22:02

? Pretty quick , cause sometimes a

22:04

record deal can take nine months to

22:07

get through the whole short

22:09

form to long form .

22:10

Yes , yeah , Honestly

22:12

, it was , it was pretty quick . Yeah

22:15

, I was expecting it to

22:17

drag out , because you know , I know that's how

22:19

contracts go . Um , but yeah

22:21

, it was , it was pretty quick . Um

22:23

, so I'm a deal , and um , a

22:26

few months later we

22:28

went to radio and then we started

22:30

that whole ride .

22:32

Yeah , boy , it's a ride

22:34

.

22:35

It is a ride .

22:36

Yeah , were you doing the radio

22:38

tour and stuff , or was this still pandemic

22:41

?

22:41

yeah , so it was . It was like coming

22:43

, we were coming

22:46

out of the pandemic and

22:48

, um , people started to

22:51

open up and so I actually got to , which

22:53

I was excited , like I . I know that

22:55

radio tour is a lot , um

22:57

, but I was excited to put

23:00

in that work and to be able to say that I did

23:02

it , um , and

23:04

so , yeah , I think we were on the road

23:06

for two

23:08

months maybe , um , on

23:10

radio tour , and it was also like radio

23:13

tour during the week and then festivals on

23:15

the weekend , so I wasn't , I wasn't

23:17

home that much . Um

23:20

, it was , it was a lot

23:22

, but I , I really even

23:24

still like I look back , like I I

23:26

enjoyed it because it was something that I

23:28

looked forward to being able to

23:30

experience for a long time .

23:32

Um , for those that don't

23:34

know , can you kind of describe

23:36

what being on radio tour is

23:38

like ?

23:39

Yes , so it's just basically going

23:42

around the U ? S and visiting

23:44

all the country stations and

23:46

um playing

23:52

the single and a couple , a couple of

23:54

other songs .

23:55

um , you know , to introduce yourself to the programmers in the

23:57

hopes that they'll play your song on radio . In the hopes that

23:59

they'll play your song on radio , yeah , or is it a lot

24:01

of early morning flights and late nights

24:04

and dinners that's ?

24:05

kind of the perception . Yes , the

24:10

early mornings actually there weren't too many of them , that wasn't too bad . There

24:12

was a lot of dinners . But

24:15

again , I kind

24:18

of wanted to have the mindset of like , okay

24:21

, I know all of these things going into it

24:23

, I know that I'm probably gonna have to get up super

24:25

early , you know , probably

24:27

gonna be eating really bad food

24:30

and maybe sometimes

24:32

singing for people that aren't really listening

24:34

to me . But it

24:37

is what it is you know , and I going to make the most

24:39

out of it . Yeah , so that's what

24:41

I tried to do .

24:42

Part of the ride . Yeah yeah , that's

24:44

amazing . That's . That's such a great attitude

24:47

to have . Yeah , I

24:50

had a . My radio

24:54

tour experience was all during

24:56

COVID .

24:57

Was it so ? Did you do it on Zoom ?

24:58

Yeah , but it was just so .

25:00

Oh , that's the worst .

25:02

It was so everything

25:04

you're describing .

25:05

Yeah .

25:07

Was all the same things that I was prepared

25:10

for . Yeah . You know , and I've been meeting

25:12

these program directors over

25:15

the two years that I was

25:17

kind of waiting my turn right .

25:18

Yeah .

25:19

So I had , you know , I

25:21

would like keep a file , keep a

25:23

note with like oh , this program director , you

25:25

know , because it's not

25:29

like a transactional thing , it's just you're meeting a lot

25:31

of people and some of the people I really connected with

25:33

and it's like , oh , this guy , we talked about his son

25:35

. Yes , and his son is into

25:37

this or that or whatever , and just trying to remember

25:40

.

25:40

Yes , it's a lot to remember . You have to

25:42

write it down .

25:42

Yeah , but I enjoyed it , yeah

25:45

, and I was excited for it , and you

25:47

know it's nobody's fault , it's just sort of

25:49

you know , yeah , covid

25:52

happened .

25:52

Yeah , I mean you probably , because , like the

25:54

, I feel like too , like the latency

25:56

, and like nobody , like who's going to , who's

25:58

going to talk , who's not going to talk , you know like it's

26:00

super weird .

26:01

Yeah , super weird , it's just not . It's not

26:03

quite the same . And there's not you

26:06

know you're there for 20

26:08

minutes on a zoom call and then you

26:10

know there's not going to be any spontaneous . I

26:13

really thrive in the okay

26:16

, we've talked business , now let's hang out yeah

26:18

, same .

26:18

You know I like to connect with people .

26:20

Yeah , on a deeper level so yeah it

26:22

was hard , but yeah you know , the music

26:24

industry is hard and

26:26

it'll it'll break your heart , so

26:29

yeah , part of it

26:31

, yeah . So , um , all

26:34

right , so you do this radio tour

26:36

, do the single , and then you're

26:39

kind of , I guess , still making music and

26:41

stuff and

26:43

yeah's what I was doing

26:46

before I signed my deal .

27:06

But you know , everything with labels

27:08

is just slower .

27:09

Yeah .

27:09

It's a lot slower .

27:11

Yes .

27:12

And so we put Founding

27:14

U went to radio and I

27:18

think they pulled it like a few months later

27:20

.

27:20

Yeah .

27:22

And then you know kind of went back to the drawing

27:24

board and

27:26

we recorded a couple songs

27:29

to put out . So

27:31

we did that . And then towards

27:36

the end of my deal I went

27:39

back on radio tour again . So I did radio

27:41

tour twice , with another song

27:44

.

27:44

Yeah .

27:44

Yeah , the second time I definitely

27:46

was like okay , I

27:49

don't know , I don't know if I can enjoy

27:51

this as much as the first time . But

27:56

yeah , we did that again and it was

27:58

kind of the same situation like pulled it again

28:00

a few months later .

28:02

Yeah , it's hard .

28:05

It's tough , it's super

28:07

tough . You

28:10

know , I kind of it

28:12

kind of felt like all of my worst

28:14

nightmares of having a record deal was

28:16

coming true . It

28:20

yeah , it wasn't panning out the way

28:22

.

28:23

Yeah , the way I wanted it to . Yeah , yeah , well

28:26

, you have this

28:28

video

28:30

that I saw that you posted kind

28:33

of after things didn't

28:35

work out the way that you wanted them to

28:37

, and

28:41

it's so . It's

28:43

such a compelling piece

28:46

of content . You know , I mean that's

28:48

a very I

28:51

don't know . I don't like the word content .

28:54

Yeah , I know , content is king , it's so real

28:56

.

28:56

Yeah , I know , content is king , it's , it's , it's so real .

28:58

Yeah .

28:58

It's so . I watched it again today

29:00

, just kind of getting ready for this interview

29:03

, because I saw it when you posted it and

29:06

it still hit me .

29:08

It still hits me when I go back

29:10

to watch it . We yeah no go

29:12

ahead I . No , go ahead

29:14

, I , I

29:18

, I . Towards the end of my deal

29:20

, I started to get

29:22

more vulnerable about how I

29:25

was really feeling about the

29:27

industry and my place in it , because

29:33

I kind of did this thing where you

29:36

know you pretend that everything's okay

29:38

when you're out in public um

29:40

, you know , and

29:43

that got to be really tough . I just couldn't

29:45

do it anymore . Um , and so I

29:47

started posting these videos um

29:49

, we call them T-Erapees and

29:53

, um , just

29:55

kind of share my feelings . You know about what I'm

29:57

going through , and it felt so

29:59

good to just tell the truth and

30:02

to be

30:04

honest about the fact that I wasn't happy .

30:06

Yeah .

30:07

And so you know , then , when I

30:09

got dropped from my record deal

30:11

, I

30:14

felt it really important to

30:17

not just skim

30:19

over the fact that I got dropped , like

30:21

I like that's hard

30:23

, you know it's . It's really

30:26

hard , and I

30:28

didn't want to have to go out in public and

30:30

explain

30:33

over and over again that I , you know what happened

30:35

, explain

30:40

over and over again that I , you know what happened . And so , um , my husband

30:43

and I just we just sat down and he put up the camera and

30:45

we just talked about

30:47

you know how

30:50

I was feeling and it

30:52

was . It was a really . It really

30:54

is just like a peek into our

30:57

conversation , because he is

31:00

my creative director , so he is in

31:02

the thick of it with me . He's also my husband

31:05

, so everything that happens , I'm

31:07

going home to him either excited about

31:09

something or crying about something . We

31:13

just sat down and just had a real conversation about

31:15

it . I

31:17

was scared out of my

31:20

mind to post that video .

31:21

So you know it's good .

31:22

Yeah , yeah . But

31:24

it was also such a huge sigh of

31:27

relief to

31:29

just put my feelings out there .

31:31

Yeah , how did you feel afterwards

31:33

?

31:36

I was terrified . I was terrified because I didn't

31:38

. You know , the point of that video was not

31:40

to make

31:43

anyone angry or

31:45

, you know , to point fingers .

31:47

Yeah .

31:49

I just wanted people to know what

31:51

I was feeling , yeah , and

31:53

so I definitely had . I definitely

31:55

was a little scared that

31:59

I didn't want anybody to take offense

32:01

to that video , because

32:03

I still love so many of the people

32:05

at my label , at

32:07

my former label , and

32:10

so , yeah , I was scared about

32:12

that . But

32:14

a lot of them were so great and they reached out

32:16

and we talked and it was great and so I was like , okay

32:18

, everything's good , it's all good

32:20

yeah , everything's all good um

32:22

. You know I've I got my feelings

32:25

out there .

32:26

I said my piece , yeah , um

32:28

and yeah yeah , it's good , and

32:30

then you don't have to deal with the yeah yeah , it's

32:32

. It's such a weird time

32:34

after you

32:37

have a change .

32:38

Yeah .

32:39

Because people are like oh , how's

32:42

that thing going ? You're like sometimes

32:44

you just don't want to explain it , so you just say , oh , it's

32:47

okay .

32:47

Yes , and that's what I did , honestly

32:49

and like towards you know , the past couple

32:52

of months of my deal , like

32:55

I was doing a lot of that

32:57

, you know , and and

32:59

also it's funny because people would

33:02

also say like you're

33:04

killing it right now . You're doing so

33:07

much , I see you everywhere and I'm like

33:09

really because I feel like I'm nowhere

33:11

like I'm doing nothing , um

33:14

, and so yeah , it's all

33:16

it .

33:16

Perception is always interesting

33:19

, yeah so , um

33:21

, after all that happens

33:23

, do you know at

33:25

this point like that you're

33:28

about to be like

33:30

featured on like Beyonce

33:33

record ?

33:36

no , let me just walk you through it . Like

33:38

I get dropped from my

33:40

record deal and I'm just

33:42

in the state of what

33:45

am I going to do now ? Because

33:47

it's not like

33:50

I chose to leave and I knew that I was

33:52

leaving . Like it was a shock , you know

33:54

. And so I'm like , okay , what

33:56

do I do now ? Leaving

33:58

like it was a shock , you know . And so I'm like , okay , what

34:01

do I do now ? And I even question , I even ask God , like is this what I'm supposed

34:03

to be doing ? Am I supposed to be here ? Because

34:05

this doesn't feel right . And

34:09

I

34:12

just kept hearing him say I'm

34:14

not done with you yet and I

34:16

didn't know what that meant , but

34:19

I trusted that he didn't

34:21

bring me this far to

34:24

let me down . Yeah , and so

34:26

, you know , we started planning

34:28

to put out

34:30

music . You

34:32

know , I was like God doesn't want me to give up

34:34

, so I guess I'm just going to keep making

34:36

music . So

34:39

we started planning that . And then

34:42

Beyonce announced

34:44

that she was putting out the Cowboy

34:46

Carter album . Well , no , she dropped the two

34:48

singles actually .

34:49

Yeah .

34:50

And I was like , oh

34:52

my gosh , my

34:54

favorite artist ever is

34:57

here and I'm so excited

34:59

about this , and so I put out a cover

35:01

, and

35:04

that alone , like the

35:07

cover that I posted , was like my first

35:09

time having a viral moment

35:11

.

35:11

Oh really .

35:12

Yeah , which you know . That's also

35:14

another thing that I feel , like you

35:16

know , in the industry , like everyone's pressuring

35:18

you to go viral . And

35:21

you're like okay , no one knows how to go

35:23

viral , so like what do you want

35:25

me to do ? So that was like

35:28

it was . That was a really cool moment for

35:30

me and you know it

35:33

felt like it

35:35

just felt like , you know , a hug from Jesus

35:37

of like I told you I got you

35:39

. You know , just that little like viral

35:43

moment for me was such a sign .

35:45

There's a quote that I love . I don't know , I don't remember

35:47

who said it , but it says opportunity

35:50

is a strange beast and it frequently

35:53

appears after a loss .

35:54

Yeah .

35:55

And that has been true in my life . Yeah so many

35:57

times , something that I think

35:59

is the worst thing that's ever happened to

36:01

me happens . And then , soon after

36:04

, the best thing that's ever happened

36:06

to me happens .

36:07

And I feel like it's hard to go through

36:09

those hard seasons , but it

36:12

makes it so much more special when it does happen

36:14

, because you know that you went through

36:16

it to get there , you know , and

36:18

that's exact , that's exactly how I felt , um

36:21

, and then

36:24

I just I just randomly

36:26

got axed

36:28

to to be on on

36:31

this album . I have no idea how they

36:33

found me I don't know if they saw the cover

36:35

, I have no idea , but I

36:38

was

36:40

it . I still can't believe that

36:42

it happened to this day ? Yeah

36:45

, because I I

36:48

was so used to , you

36:51

know , sitting at home and scrolling

36:54

through Instagram and seeing

36:57

other people get opportunities that I wanted so

36:59

badly for myself , and

37:01

I was so used

37:04

to that feeling and having

37:06

to , like , therapize myself

37:09

you know through that . And

37:11

so now , to like actually be

37:14

the one getting to experience the cool thing

37:16

, to

37:19

like actually be the one getting to experience the cool thing . It's such a strange

37:21

feeling for me , like I'm so not used to it , um

37:23

, but I'm , I'm just , I'm soaking in every

37:25

moment . Um , it's

37:28

, it's crazy to me that this happened

37:30

, like yeah you know , right after getting

37:32

like the worst thing that could happen as an artist

37:34

, and now , like you said , the best thing that could happen as an artist , and now , like you

37:36

said , the best thing that could ever happen .

37:38

Yeah , are you taking it in ? Are you

37:40

feeling good ?

37:41

I am I am , and I , you know , I

37:43

used to be so bad at celebrating

37:45

moments because I'm always on

37:47

to the next thing , like , okay , this happened

37:49

. Now I got to do the work to get to the next thing

37:51

, you know , yeah , but , man

37:53

, like the past two and a half years

37:55

, they were

37:57

so hard , they were so hard and I was

38:00

the most oppressed I've

38:02

ever been . And

38:05

so now to be on the complete

38:07

opposite side of that , I am

38:09

soaking in every single moment

38:11

and every day . Yeah

38:13

, yeah , just sitting in it . I love it

38:16

. It's so cool .

38:17

Such a such a amazing

38:19

record and yeah like , yeah

38:22

, it's very , it's very cool to be

38:24

a part of .

38:25

I can't even imagine . It's so cool , I mean it's , it's

38:27

wild to think about . Like I also

38:30

feel like something

38:32

like this has not been done on such a massive

38:35

scale . Like she is , to

38:37

me , the biggest artist in the world and

38:39

I'm such a newbie like I'm

38:41

I'm , you know , yes

38:43

, I've been in town for for eight years but like

38:46

she has so many years on this

38:48

industry , you know , and so

38:50

for her to see an artist like me

38:52

, it's

38:54

, it's just wild , yeah , it's wild

38:56

it's uh , almost impossible

38:59

to describe yes , exactly , exactly

39:02

yeah , wow , that's , that's so

39:04

, that's so great yeah amazing story

39:06

.

39:07

Um well , what's uh ? What's

39:10

next ?

39:11

what's next ? Yeah um

39:13

well , I have a song

39:15

called I Ain't a Cowgirl that

39:19

we put out . It's the

39:21

first independent release , yeah

39:24

, and we are

39:26

putting out a song every

39:29

five weeks until the album , so

39:31

we're cranking it out . You know , I kind

39:33

of was like for so long I

39:36

felt like I wasn't putting

39:38

out music , and

39:40

so now to have complete

39:43

control of you know what I put out

39:45

and what it looks like , we

39:47

are just like we're

39:49

loving it .

39:50

Oh yeah , yeah , it's such

39:52

a great feeling .

39:53

And you know it's such a great feeling

39:55

and you know

39:57

, especially like creating with my husband

40:00

. He's just , he's so great and like

40:02

I tell him all the time like I'm honored to

40:04

be able to work with you because he just comes up

40:06

with this vision , you know , for content

40:08

, for videos , and

40:13

I just show up and I'm like , okay , I'll do my thing . And

40:15

you know it's such a partnership , it's beautiful . Yeah , we have a lot of

40:17

fun and I

40:20

feel like I've grown so much as a human

40:22

and as an artist and

40:25

really honed in on what

40:27

my sound is , what my brand is , and

40:30

so to put out my

40:33

first album and to

40:36

be I'm so proud of the music

40:38

and the way everything looks

40:40

and

40:42

and yeah , like it's it's a grind , Like the

40:44

independent life is a grind , but I love

40:47

it . I love it so much . I

40:49

love having my hand in everything

40:52

.

40:52

Yeah , yeah , getting to steer the ship . Yes

40:54

, yeah , that's amazing . Well

40:57

, thank

41:10

you so much for being here . Thank you , I appreciate it . Thanks for telling , telling your

41:12

story . It's an amazing story , thank you , and that's it . Episode of

41:14

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41:16

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41:18

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