0:03

You know, I

0:03

look back; that's 20 years ago.

0:06

And there are some moments in

0:06

that 20 years that are like

0:08

yesterday for me, and there's

0:08

some moments that are very

0:11

blurry. But that particular

0:11

moment is very clear to me, when

0:15

we first received the call. I

0:15

actually had cut my hand, and I

0:19

was on my way to the doctor to

0:19

have a stitch out. I was right

0:22

out coming in here by the

0:22

university, and I turned on the

0:25

radio, and they were talking

0:25

about this incident taking place

0:28

in New York City, and the

0:28

commentator was saying that a

0:31

small aircraft had run into or

0:31

crashed into the tours. And I

0:37

immediately thought, "No, that

0:37

can't happen."

0:41

The terrorist

0:41

attacks on September 11, 2001,

0:44

will forever live in the minds

0:44

of many, especially those who

0:47

aided in the rescue and recovery

0:47

operations. Dr. Kem Bennett,

0:52

senior professor in the Wm

0:52

Michael Barnes '64 Department of

0:55

Industrial and Systems

0:55

Engineering and vice chancellor

0:58

and dean emeritus in the College

0:58

of Engineering, was among those

1:01

who arrived in New York with

1:01

Texas Task Force One. That

1:05

harrowing experience challenged

1:05

the team and further instilled

1:08

the need for the training

1:08

facility designed and opened in

1:10

1998 the now world-renowned

1:10

Disaster City.

1:15

The 60-acre

1:15

training facility is part of the

1:17

Texas A&M Engineering Extension

1:17

Service's National Emergency

1:21

Response and Rescue Training

1:21

Center. Since its opening,

1:25

Disaster City has trained people

1:25

representing every U.S. state

1:29

and territory and more than 100

1:29

countries. Bennett shared his

1:33

experiences with Disaster City,

1:33

and how the training program

1:37

impacted the team's time at

1:37

Ground Zero, as well as how that

1:41

experience influenced training

1:41

since. Please note that this

1:45

episode includes content

1:45

describing destruction at Ground

1:48

Zero and recovery efforts that

1:48

some listeners may find

1:52

disturbing. This is SoundBytes.

1:52

Welcome to Engineer This!

2:03

That was my

2:03

first reaction. And I felt like

2:05

we would probably get a call,

2:05

but I didn't think more about it

2:08

except going to the doctor. And

2:08

when I got to the doctor's

2:11

office, the nurse came in and

2:11

told me that I had an emergency

2:14

call that I needed to take and

2:14

that's when we were alerted that

2:18

FEMA was going to put us on

2:18

alert to go.

2:21

Alright, just to

2:21

kick us off. What is Disaster

2:23

City?

2:25

Well, Disaster

2:25

City is just like its name says.

2:28

It's a city full of disasters.

2:28

We have just about every type of

2:32

disaster that you could

2:32

encounter. We call them props,

2:35

but some of them like houses,

2:35

some of them are rubble piles,

2:38

some of them are buildings, some

2:38

of them are skills training

2:41

areas. We have a train out

2:41

there; we have an Amtrak that

2:45

shows a passenger derailment. We

2:45

have tank cars out there' we

2:49

have trucks. It's just got

2:49

everything out there. It's like

2:52

a Disneyland for training for

2:52

emergency responders.

2:55

You mentioned prop. I just want to see if we could define what a prop is in

2:57

this context.

3:00

A prop can

3:00

really vary. If you go into

3:03

hurricane disasters, you'll find

3:03

a lot of wood that is stacked up

3:07

in what we call rubble piles. So

3:07

there's a wood rubble pile out

3:10

there to train on. We have

3:10

buildings and roofs caved in and

3:15

walls in various locations where

3:15

firefighters and responders have

3:19

to train to move through tight

3:19

spaces, cut through and use

3:24

tools, by the way, to cut

3:24

through concrete steel. These

3:27

are very skilled people. I mean,

3:27

this is, you just don't run and

3:30

say, "I'm here to help you." I

3:30

mean, you have to have a lot of

3:33

skills. And Disaster City allows

3:33

them to hone those skills, learn

3:38

those skills and then apply them

3:38

at the same time.

3:40

Who are the people that do go out there to get training?

3:43

Well, that's a

3:43

real good question because it's

3:46

some broad. And that's another

3:46

reason why I think city is so

3:49

encompassing for it. I mean,

3:49

it's not just a bunch of props,

3:52

but we can actually bring in a

3:52

county, a city along with state

3:56

representatives and actually

3:56

have them simulate how they

4:00

would all interact with one

4:00

another in a disaster

4:02

environment. There are so many

4:02

people and command posts behind

4:05

the scene. And one of the things

4:05

we have in this country is

4:08

called the Incident Command

4:08

System. You know, how do you go

4:12

from having a disaster in a say

4:12

a small town to now you're,

4:16

you're next at the county level,

4:16

then you're the state level, and

4:19

all of a sudden it comes to the

4:19

federal government and so forth.

4:22

And how do you bring all these

4:22

people in, put them all together

4:24

and work as a team? And that's

4:24

what Disaster City is about. We

4:28

can actually train all these

4:28

people at one time in an

4:31

environment where they are

4:31

interacting in a live scenario.

4:35

Make the responders feel when

4:35

they arrive on the scene to try

4:39

to save lives that they've been

4:39

there before and they know what

4:43

to do. But they're not the only

4:43

ones we're training out there.

4:45

Besides the responders and the

4:45

leaders in the background, we're

4:49

also training the canines. These

4:49

are incredible animals. They can

4:54

run across these rubble piles

4:54

like they're not even there.

4:57

Their sense of smell, they can

4:57

detect If they've countered,

5:01

someone live who's buried

5:01

underneath. They can detect if

5:04

they've encountered the, someone

5:04

who is deceased, and they could

5:08

send back appropriate signals.

5:08

So a lot of times rescues as you

5:11

know, turn into recovery. That's

5:11

the hardest part. But it's an

5:16

important part because you're

5:16

helping families retrieve the

5:19

remains of their loved ones. So

5:19

they're all very important, and

5:22

the canines play an important

5:22

part in that.

5:25

Do you have a

5:25

favorite part of Disaster City?

5:28

Yes, there,

5:28

there are several actually. I

5:31

guess my first favorite part is

5:31

the very first prop to train in

5:36

that we built. Every time I see

5:36

that prop, it takes me back 20

5:39

years plus when we first started

5:39

the concept of what, what

5:43

Disaster City would be. So every

5:43

time I see that particular

5:47

building, I think, "Wow, we did

5:47

it." The other feeling that I

5:51

have is that nobody's ever done

5:51

this before, so we designed

5:54

these things. And that's where

5:54

the engineering came into the

5:57

design and the creativity of a

5:57

lot of people. That's one place.

6:01

I think the second place is a

6:01

little bit more somber. There's

6:04

a prop on the back of the

6:04

facility that we use for

6:08

training that when I go there, I

6:08

get a little emotional. It takes

6:12

me back to New York City to the

6:12

response to Ground Zero. My

6:16

first view as I walked into

6:16

Ground Zero was this view of a

6:20

parking garage, a lot of

6:20

collapse in that building, and

6:25

that facility looks just like

6:25

it. So it gives me flashbacks.

6:29

So I guess that's special in a

6:29

different way.

6:33

Transitioning to

6:33

9/11. For most people, you have

6:38

a very vivid memory of where you

6:38

were on 9/11. But not many

6:43

people experienced what it was

6:43

like on Ground Zero. What was it

6:47

like during the recovery and

6:47

rescue?

6:51

I guess the one

6:51

word is overwhelming

6:55

emotionally, physically pretty

6:55

draining, tiring. Very big highs

7:01

and happiness too all, all

7:01

jumbled into one experience. I

7:05

know for myself, when you first

7:05

arrive and see the site. It

7:11

stops you in your tracks. I

7:11

think everybody just stopped in

7:14

awe and looked I never saw such

7:14

massive destruction in front of

7:18

me. And piles it seemed like 60,

7:18

80 feet high of steel,

7:24

interlaced, and people all over

7:24

the place searching and looking.

7:29

And it hits you that, "Wow, this

7:29

is incredible." Smoke is coming

7:34

down everywhere. By the time we

7:34

got there, they had security all

7:38

the way around it and were

7:38

containing the area so people

7:40

couldn't get in the area. But

7:40

earlier, people had been able to

7:43

get out there and there were

7:43

signs and pictures of their,

7:47

their... you know what. This one

7:47

that really reached me was on a

7:50

telephone pole right by where I

7:50

was standing. That was a picture

7:53

of a family having breakfast in

7:53

their apartment it looked like

7:57

and scribbled on the bottom of

7:57

the photograph was a message in

8:02

a child's hand saying, "Please

8:02

find my daddy." Seeing this

8:07

event and seeing that just was

8:07

overwhelming for me. But then as

8:13

soon as you go through that

8:13

emotion, probably within

8:17

seconds, your head's back in the

8:17

game, if you will, and you know

8:21

why you're there, and you just

8:21

do your job. And then everybody

8:25

starts doing what they're there

8:25

to do and put it behind

8:29

yourself. But at night, when you

8:29

come back and you decontaminate

8:33

and you get to showers and you,

8:33

you get ready to get into your

8:37

bunk, and you start thinking

8:37

about your mind's video camera.

8:41

And it plays back a lot of the

8:41

incident. So you kind of go

8:45

through those emotions in the

8:45

evening. But while you're out

8:47

there, you're focused on what you're doing.

8:50

Texas Task Force

8:50

One has the best of the best

8:53

because you have the ability to

8:53

loop in such a large area. What

8:58

is it like preparing for an

8:58

event like that, not just in the

9:02

long term, the hypothetical, but

9:02

also once you get that call,

9:07

actually getting ready to go?

9:09

Everything is

9:09

rehearsed. It's like, we're

9:12

going to put a football team out

9:12

on the field. They're going to

9:15

practice every day. Well, these,

9:15

these teams are the same way.

9:18

This team practices. It gets

9:18

together and has mandatory

9:22

monthly and often more than

9:22

that, but they train together.

9:26

We train everything from loading

9:26

the aircraft,. You're carrying

9:30

the 100,000 pounds of equipment

9:30

with you, easily you've got one

9:34

big aircraft just to carry your

9:34

equipment and another aircraft

9:37

to carry the team. The team's

9:37

about 74 members. You train

9:42

together; you train loading

9:42

together. You have to have your

9:45

gear bags already packed at all

9:45

time when you're on alert. And

9:49

when your beeper goes off, you

9:49

just grab your bag and you go.

9:53

You just answer, "I'm on my way"

9:53

so they know they can count on

9:56

you being there. And then you

9:56

have to be there. We have

9:59

engineers. We have doctors, we

9:59

have medical staff. You have to

10:02

have your physical when you're there; they have to get the baseline all your, your vital

10:04

signs have to be recorded. And

10:09

you have to be deemed fit for

10:09

service. And all this needs to

10:11

take place. This is a major

10:11

movement of, of humans and

10:16

canine and equipment that has to

10:16

be packed specially, and a lot

10:21

of this is hazardous. And so you

10:21

have to be able to be in the

10:25

field for 10 days operational

10:25

and not have any assistance for

10:29

at least 72 hours. So you have

10:29

to carry everything you have to

10:34

carry with you. And you have to

10:34

be prepared to go. So those

10:37

training takes place to do that

10:37

constantly. It is not haphazard.

10:41

It's not like, "Yeah, go stand

10:41

over here." Or you need to do

10:44

this and you need... Everybody

10:44

knows where they need to go.

10:47

Everybody knows what group

10:47

they're in, if they're in a

10:50

search group, a rescue group, a

10:50

medical group, a logistics

10:53

group. I mean, can you imagine

10:53

logistics just to move all this?

10:57

I mean and have everything in

10:57

when you get to the site, know

11:00

exactly where the slightest tool

11:00

is that you may need in minutes.

11:05

It's a pretty incredible

11:05

operation.

11:07

Looking at

11:07

Disaster City, again. It had

11:11

only been established a couple

11:11

years before. How did the

11:15

training that you had done in

11:15

those years prepare the team.

11:19

You kind of talked about this in

11:19

the, the preparation getting

11:22

ready to go wheels up. But once

11:22

you actually get on the ground,

11:26

how did that training impact the

11:26

response?

11:28

We didn't have

11:28

a blueprint to follow. We had to

11:31

figure out how do we train for

11:31

disasters. Many disasters we

11:35

hadn't been to ourselves, but we

11:35

could bring in some of the top

11:40

people to talk to us. We brought

11:40

in a lot of people from the

11:43

California area that dealt with

11:43

earthquake disasters. We brought

11:47

in people who were in the urban

11:47

search and rescue teams in other

11:51

states and had them come in and

11:51

tell us about their experiences.

11:55

We took photographs. And by the

11:55

way, I'll just throw in right

11:58

now this team is not only

11:58

capable of responding to stuff

12:01

like 9/11, but it can respond to

12:01

any kind of radiological

12:06

response or any kind of

12:06

hazardous materials response,

12:09

any kind of chemical response or

12:09

what we call a heavy rescue. So

12:13

the training, the team is

12:13

trained to cover all these areas

12:16

in response. Well, that means

12:16

that's what we do out there to

12:21

get prepared. So we, we go to

12:21

9/11 we head to 9/11. We knew

12:26

what we were doing. Our team is

12:26

capable of splitting right down

12:29

the middle, operating in two 12

12:29

hour shifts. And that's what we

12:33

did, 12 hour and 12 hour rounds.

12:33

I remember that there was some

12:38

heavy metal that was hanging up

12:38

high over the rubble pile. Now

12:41

the cranes and equipment there

12:41

were just incredible on the

12:44

ground trying to lift this out.

12:44

But a lot of it, even these

12:47

giant cranes could not pick up

12:47

because they had to be cut the

12:50

pieces. We ended up with that

12:50

task our team but why? Because

12:54

some of our guys were skilled at

12:54

what they call high angle

12:58

rescue. They then are

12:58

comfortable operating in

13:01

heights. But more importantly

13:01

are comfortable using chainsaws

13:06

with diamond tips on them at

13:06

heights. Using cutting torches

13:09

at heights, and so forth. So we

13:09

ended up cutting a lot of the

13:13

metal up high that could then be

13:13

picked up by the cranes and

13:19

lower down to be, to be removed.

13:19

If you're going to put a rescuer

13:23

in the building, the building

13:23

better be safe. Who's going to

13:26

make that call? You've got to

13:26

have a structural engineer to

13:30

look at that building and say,

13:30

"It's okay. You can go in

13:33

there." Or to say, "You need to

13:33

shore up that wall." In other

13:36

words, you know, how are you

13:36

going to prop up that wall make

13:38

sure it doesn't fall on you. And

13:38

that's another skill they

13:42

learned in Disaster City and

13:42

that we train on is how to take

13:45

wood, two-by-fours that lay on

13:45

the ground and throw them up and

13:49

build shores quickly. And you

13:49

just call out a name and you

13:52

build on that kind of shore to

13:52

hold the wall up. We saw that

13:55

yeah, we were, we had it right.

13:55

We were training right.

13:59

Howdy. It's your

13:59

producer Jenn Reiley here with a

14:02

quick note. Disaster City opened

14:02

in 1998. But ideas and plans for

14:06

the site were three years in the

14:06

making. In April 1995, a car

14:10

bomb went off outside the Alfred

14:10

P. Murrah Federal Building in

14:13

Oklahoma City. 168 people were

14:13

killed. At the time, Bennett was

14:17

serving as director of the Texas

14:17

A&M Engineering Extension

14:20

Service, or TEEX. TEEX was

14:20

responsible for the state's

14:23

urban search and rescue. After

14:23

the bombing, TEEX recognized the

14:26

need for a team for heavy rescue

14:26

operations. And when you create

14:29

a team, you need a place to

14:29

train them. Thus, Disaster City

14:33

was born. I don't want to keep

14:33

you off from the interview, so

14:35

let's get back into it.

14:37

How did your work

14:37

responding to 9/11 with Texas

14:40

Task Force One influence

14:40

teaching at Disaster City?

14:43

Quite a bit.

14:43

First and foremost is proof of

14:47

concept. We have Texas Task

14:47

Force One that is what responded

14:50

there to New York City, and our

14:50

team had only become a federal

14:55

team in June and here we are in

14:55

September responding to a major

14:59

national disaster. Now we had

14:59

been a state team, so we were

15:03

prepared, but it was a proof of

15:03

concept. We felt like when we

15:07

were there, we were prepared to

15:07

be there. We knew what to do.

15:10

There was no lag in what we did.

15:10

So when we came back, we said,

15:13

"Yeah, we got it right, that

15:13

part." But what did we bring

15:16

back? Well, we brought back a

15:16

sense of the need for

15:20

technology. For example, when we

15:20

first got there, there was some

15:24

government people there that met

15:24

us out at the site. And they

15:28

said, "Do you have your camera

15:28

search gear with you?" We said,

15:31

"Yes, we did." We have a special

15:31

gear; we can snake it down into

15:34

rubble piles of look around. And

15:34

they said, "Well, we can upgrade

15:38

that for you." Sure enough, they

15:38

took it over to the van. I don't

15:41

know what they did to it, but it

15:41

came back and it was like we

15:43

went high definition TV. I mean,

15:43

it was incredible, the

15:46

visibility. So it's like, "Oh,

15:46

we got to get more of this

15:49

stuff." And technology, more

15:49

technology needs to come in. So

15:54

we brought that back with us.

15:54

One of the things that the

15:57

emergency response community

15:57

does after any disaster response

16:01

is that there's a lessons

16:01

learned. They sit down, they get

16:04

together, and they'll talk about

16:04

what, what went right, what went

16:08

wrong, and what we could do

16:08

better. And the information

16:12

that's gathered there is brought

16:12

back and entered into our

16:15

training program.

16:16

Could you have

16:16

ever imagined not just the

16:19

impact of training, but the real

16:19

world impact that this program

16:24

has had?

16:25

I don't think

16:25

I've could. I can say this, that

16:29

our fire training program is

16:29

known worldwide, and that's

16:33

primarily because of the

16:33

petrochemical industry

16:36

development in Texas. So before

16:36

we even had the search and

16:40

rescue part, we had a

16:40

reputation. Well, that's

16:43

something you can build on.

16:43

Okay, let's add, let's add

16:45

building block b now. Let's be

16:45

the world's premier search and

16:50

rescue training facility. And

16:50

that's exactly what we did. But

16:53

it'd be like building a program,

16:53

a Texas A&M University program.

16:57

You have a pretty good

16:57

visibility to go with right now.

16:59

Just build on that.

17:00

You mentioned the

17:00

start of Disaster City. What was

17:03

it like at the opening of

17:03

Disaster City and has it

17:07

developed the way that you expected?

17:09

The opening

17:09

is...that, that's the point when

17:14

you say you've arrived. Okay,

17:14

let's say that. We cut a ribbon

17:17

and everything, but I mean that,

17:17

it was very special, because

17:21

there were a lot of, a lot of

17:21

players there. The people that

17:24

made it happen were there. I was

17:24

overwhelmed. We had some of our

17:28

political help was there.

17:28

Senator Hutchison from the state

17:31

of Texas at the time. She was a

17:31

huge help in this. We had Kevin

17:35

Brady who was our congressman at

17:35

the time. Kevin was there. There

17:39

were a lot of people that made

17:39

this happen that were there. And

17:43

so what it meant to me was, we

17:43

did it. We did it. We took a

17:47

concept. there was nothing there

17:47

but this acreage of land and a

17:52

couple old buildings. And, and

17:52

we had a training facility. We

17:57

built a couple million-dollar

17:57

facility to train there, and we

18:01

had the ribbon cutting there. It

18:01

was like, you know, this is

18:04

going to happen. So we opened up

18:04

that day and started and as I

18:09

said, we had a couple of three

18:09

training props in Disaster City

18:13

at that time. And it has grown.

18:13

In terms of my vision. Well, the

18:19

vision I had was we needed a

18:19

training facility. Beyond that,

18:23

I wasn't quite sure. In fact, I

18:23

thought it was risky when we did

18:27

it because I was saying, I don't

18:27

know if we really need that many

18:30

people need to be trained in

18:30

search and rescue, you know, is

18:33

it something we could sustain?

18:33

Another person I'd like to

18:36

mention was really our main

18:36

trainer and rescue at the time

18:39

was Billy Parker. And Billy used

18:39

to always, he'd whisper in my

18:43

ear, he says, Dr. Bennett, now

18:43

you need to understand that, you

18:46

know, we do a lot of fire

18:46

training here. And we do a lot

18:48

of emergency medical training.

18:48

But I'm telling you the next

18:51

thing coming is this heavy

18:51

rescue, and we need to, we need

18:54

to up our rescue training. Of

18:54

course, he was a rescue guy, so

18:58

what would you expect him to

18:58

say? But I did listen to Billy.

19:01

And he was right, because when

19:01

we put the facility together,

19:06

not only did we become the

19:06

national training center where

19:08

they come to train all the, all

19:08

the teams, but we train the

19:12

London fire brigade. And London

19:12

used to come over here and train

19:16

with us, and when they had the

19:16

incident over there in the

19:18

subway. At the end of that

19:18

incident, they did an interview,

19:22

the fire chief there. He said in

19:22

his interview that they

19:25

responded so well, that it was

19:25

because of the training they had

19:29

received here in Texas in our

19:29

training facility. Today when I

19:32

go out to Disaster City, I just

19:32

can't help but smile. It's just

19:36

like I said; it's grown, grown

19:36

into something I think we really

19:40

needed in this country and it's

19:40

pretty glorious.

19:47

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19:49

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date with what's happening

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19:56

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19:58

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20:01

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20:01

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20:04

A&M University System.

20:04

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20:17

'em.