0:17

Hey, everybody. Hi,

0:19

friends. Well from beautiful Salt Lake

0:21

City, Utah. It's the Gowdy I'm

0:23

atheist. The podcast. I'm

0:25

Frank Feldman, and I'm Dan Beecher.

0:28

And coming up on the show

0:30

to date, Dan I'm so sorry,

0:32

Dan. I'm I'm

0:34

so

0:35

sorry. You are

0:37

afraid of it. Oh oh, thank

0:39

you. We're

0:41

gonna be talking about apologies and

0:44

And what we're what we're gonna be talking

0:46

about is how fucked up

0:48

and wrong the bible

0:50

is -- Mhmm. -- about

0:54

about forgiveness and about

0:56

Paul yeah. About -- Yeah. -- about about

0:58

when you when someone has wronged

1:00

another person. Yeah. The

1:02

Christianity is fucking That's

1:05

backwards about it. Frank pointed this out to me

1:07

today. And it blew my damn

1:09

mind. So prepare

1:12

for your mind to get blue. Yeah.

1:15

This is this is this is a Franklin

1:17

special coming at

1:18

you. Brace yourselves everybody. It's

1:21

gonna be good. Alright. Dan,

1:23

Yeah. A certain imam

1:26

in Iran, and by the name

1:28

of Mohammed Mehdi Hosseini

1:31

Hamadani, I'm very

1:33

familiar. He is the

1:36

imam of Mirage. Mhmm.

1:39

He has come out

1:41

with the reason

1:44

why. He knows the reason why

1:46

there is an ongoing drought in

1:49

Iran. Oh. Has it

1:50

all figured out, Dan? Oh.

1:53

He's gonna be

1:53

useful for us here in the west. It it really

1:56

could be. I'm all ears. Apparently,

1:59

It's due to the lack

2:02

of hijab observance. It

2:05

is the women's fault everybody

2:09

And the way their hair showing,

2:11

it's causing it not to

2:14

rain. Well, if

2:16

there's one thing clouds hate, It's

2:18

looking down and seeing hair. Oh,

2:20

it's the worst. Yeah.

2:24

He says he describes

2:27

Anyway, this was this was during

2:30

Friday services this

2:32

last week. Mhmm. He said

2:34

he'd describe anyone who unveils in public

2:36

as an enemy that

2:39

all such people must

2:41

be confronted by the state. Surely

2:44

not people. Surely, you're just talking about Gowdy

2:48

Quote, it is not possible to imagine

2:50

that we are living in an Islamic country.

2:53

When we enter some institutions, shopping

2:55

malls, pharmacies, etcetera,

2:59

he said calling on the authorities to warn

3:01

shops and malls that serve

3:03

women who have removed their head job

3:05

and close them down if warnings

3:08

do not suffice. Oh my god.

3:10

Apparently, this is not he's not the first

3:12

person to to to come across this

3:15

idea. Prosecutors general Mohammed

3:17

Jafar Montesiri in

3:20

two thousand nineteen said The judicial

3:22

system does not allow women to unveil in

3:24

public because it causes

3:26

natural disasters such as floods and

3:29

earthquakes. This

3:31

is the prosecutor general, holy

3:33

cow. That's amazing. Let's

3:36

see. Youssef Tabitha Naidjaad

3:41

He's I think you nailed all of these

3:43

pronouncements. So I'm just gonna throw that

3:45

out. He's a representative Ali

3:48

Khamenei's representative in

3:51

central city of Isfa

3:53

Han said in two thousand

3:55

sixteen that women who unveiled and

3:57

took photos quote, like

3:59

Europeans are the reason

4:02

the city's river went

4:04

dry. And he added that if

4:06

it continues, the headwaters will also dry

4:08

up. Okay. Then explain why

4:11

Europe isn't having the same trouble. Oh,

4:13

Europe has its problems, Dan. Its rivers

4:15

are drying up. Yeah. I think

4:18

I think honestly But I think that's

4:21

It would be super easy to test.

4:24

The the weather patterns and

4:27

and sort of natural disaster

4:30

patterns of the

4:32

the key job versus the unhedged

4:35

countries of the world. Well, they're not having it.

4:37

It is clearly women showing

4:39

off their hair. And taking

4:41

photos like Europeans, that's the

4:43

problem. You know, the ding dongs of

4:45

the world are the same, the world over.

4:47

This is this is just Pat Robertson.

4:49

Yeah. With names that Frank

4:51

can't pronounce. That's totally

4:53

true. Clearly, the problem

4:55

is climate change exacerbated by

4:58

apparently some public

5:00

policy that hasn't really gone terribly

5:02

well. I guess they're they've been encouraging water

5:05

thirsty crops like rice. Oh,

5:07

great. Yeah. That's what you need to

5:09

know. A great idea. There's

5:11

also been some issues with some dams

5:13

that have been built that have caused I

5:15

don't know, rivers to run dry maybe

5:17

and stuff like

5:19

that, you know. We wouldn't know anything about that

5:21

here in the American

5:22

West. Couldn't possibly be that. Oh, yeah. No.

5:24

No

5:24

kidding. Wait. All of our water all

5:27

of our water policy is solid.

5:30

Just to spot on -- Yeah. -- here.

5:32

Fair enough. But at least

5:34

we're not blaming women -- Right.

5:36

-- not covering up. Yeah.

5:38

We're the problem is that the fault

5:40

it is it is directly default

5:43

of white men -- Mhmm. -- so we're not

5:45

blaming anybody. That's

5:47

that's the policy here. Surprise we're not

5:49

scapegoating though. Right? We should

5:51

be. We should be. Women, you

5:53

know, shown showing their shoulders. Let's

5:56

Showing their Let's get out in front of it and say

5:58

that it's the fault of men and their

6:00

ties. Every

6:02

man who wears a tie is contributing

6:04

to the drought. I like

6:06

this one. Yeah. That's good. Yeah.

6:09

Alright. So speaking

6:12

of the American West, in

6:15

El centrocal cornya, which

6:17

is the middle of fucking nowhere

6:19

right next right near the Mexican border.

6:21

It's an El Cintro of nowhere.

6:25

Hey, there you go.

6:29

Translation joke, zing. So

6:33

Alcentro, we I think we talked

6:35

about this a a

6:38

year or two ago. Some

6:40

allegations came out about

6:43

a guy named Victor

6:45

Gonzalez and some other people

6:47

in the Imperial Valley

6:49

ministries. Which is

6:51

a non denominational church in

6:53

Elcentro, where

6:56

basically Here's

6:59

what so okay. He's been sentenced.

7:01

He he is going to

7:03

to prison for Not

7:06

that long. It's surprisingly short

7:08

amount of time, like six weeks six months or

7:10

something like that. But

7:12

what he was what he was what

7:14

he was charged with. And

7:16

this was this was, you know, I

7:19

I think what he did was plead guilty they,

7:21

you know, they plead bargained down

7:24

to benefits fraud. Okay.

7:27

What the the charges

7:29

that were dropped and this guy got

7:31

a sweetheart deal. I don't understand

7:33

why he got such a sweetheart deal. His

7:35

wife was also sentenced

7:38

to time served Here's

7:41

what they did. They got a whole bunch of

7:43

people who were probably

7:45

I it doesn't say this, but they were

7:47

probably immigrants. Who would come

7:49

across the border from Mexico. K.

7:52

And had nowhere to go and had no

7:54

way to get food and they were

7:56

really struggling. Brought

7:58

them into the church, said,

8:00

hey, we'll feed you, we'll take care of you, blah

8:02

blah blah. Just give us your IDs

8:04

and sign this paperwork saying that you

8:06

won't go against us or

8:08

whatever. I remember this. Yeah.

8:10

And then they forced them to go and

8:12

panhandle for up to nine hours

8:14

a day. Okay. FCP

8:17

days a week. Oh Gowdy. ratcheted.

8:19

And then they took the money and just

8:21

sort of they kept they pimped

8:23

them as as as

8:25

a sort of a forced labor.

8:27

Oh, that's so good. And

8:31

then let them out. Threatened

8:33

them with starvation if they didn't do

8:35

what they were told. Yeah. They didn't have there

8:37

any identification. They didn't have anything.

8:39

This was all sort of

8:41

owned by by the church.

8:44

That's right. And

8:45

to top it all off, and this is what they

8:47

got him for, they took

8:50

benefits that were intended for

8:52

the victims, like the SNAP benefit, which

8:54

is a supplemental nutrition assistance

8:56

program. You know, it's food benefits.

8:58

they kept them to the

9:00

tune of over a hundred thousand dollars.

9:03

That

9:04

takes a special person to do

9:07

something like this. Right? An

9:09

especially bad person. Right? Like, it's

9:11

Wow. To be like,

9:14

oh, here are people in need

9:16

I am a pastor of a church. I

9:19

think slavery is the answer

9:21

here. I think

9:23

this this serves all peep everybody's

9:25

needs. Perfectly well. Oh, yeah.

9:27

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So

9:30

just he got how long did he

9:32

get? Did you say? Six so

9:36

six months in jail

9:38

-- No. -- and then six more months

9:40

of home confinement. Oh, wow.

9:42

Yeah. Sweetheart deal for sure.

9:44

Holy

9:44

crap. Yeah. And his wife was

9:47

given a time served, send it to

9:49

me that would It's

9:51

absurd. This is absurd.

9:53

This just goes to show that, like,

9:56

in the American justice system,

9:59

Yeah. It what matters is

10:01

who the victims are. Who In this

10:03

case, the victims didn't count as

10:05

people. Who the victims are? And I'm sure

10:07

it helped that he was a pastor. Right. Even

10:09

though he violated like, it should be a

10:11

more egregious crime. A

10:13

hundred percent

10:14

he's violated what it

10:16

what it's should mean to

10:18

be a pastor. What what the mandate

10:21

is some is meant to be? Like -- Yeah. --

10:23

when we as a society

10:26

Give these people tax exempt status

10:28

-- Yeah. -- which we probably just shouldn't do.

10:30

Right. They're taking on

10:32

a greater responsibility than

10:34

just a job.

10:35

Yeah. And so he

10:37

he absolutely violated that.

10:40

And there should the

10:42

the punishment should fit that crime. I I

10:44

think there's a crime there that's just not

10:46

being recognized or seen that's like,

10:48

you know, alright.

10:50

And also, like, The big the

10:52

big violation. The the

10:55

violation for which he was

10:57

actually sentenced wasn't

10:59

about what he did to these people.

11:02

Oh, it was about what he did to the

11:04

state. It was about -- Yeah. You're

11:06

right. -- how he swindled

11:08

the state Who cares about

11:10

what happened to the actual

11:12

victims -- Right. -- of of

11:14

this guy? It's about,

11:16

oh, but you brought the state into it.

11:18

So Yeah.

11:20

Naughty, naughty. Well,

11:24

down my next story. This was

11:26

something that was just bound to happen.

11:28

This was absolutely bound

11:30

to happen based on

11:34

the continued further

11:36

over drag queen story hours that

11:38

keep that keeps happening in

11:40

this

11:40

country. Right. Okay. So nice drag

11:42

queens decide they wanna go

11:45

donate

11:45

some time at the library, reading the

11:47

kids. Right? And they have a Because

11:49

there's because that's going to be fun.

11:52

Right. For everyone. Yeah. They get

11:54

dressed up. The the parents and

11:56

the kids are they're all in the know. They

11:58

know what they're going to. And it's

12:00

fine. Right? Yeah. Well,

12:02

we know not everybody thinks it's

12:04

fine. There's a pastor

12:07

in Arkansas by the name of

12:09

Owen Strachan. He

12:11

is an he's an author and

12:13

he's a pastor at Grace

12:16

bible theological Seminary.

12:20

He's gonna be hosting a biblical

12:22

story hour for children. At

12:24

a library in Conway,

12:26

Arkansas. And

12:28

he's gonna be reading a

12:30

picture book to children about

12:32

god's design of the sex is

12:36

Oh. So Yes. Of

12:38

course he is. Right? Of course.

12:41

Which will probably

12:43

be far less

12:46

appropriate, age appropriate for

12:48

these kids. Right. True. And any

12:50

drag queen story hour or whatever

12:52

big. Probably totally true.

12:54

He estimates that about fifty to

12:56

seventy five people will attend since he

12:58

has promoted the event on Facebook.

13:00

And he's got so many great

13:02

responses. He says, I think there's a

13:04

real hunger for the compassionate but

13:06

clear witness on the part of God's

13:08

people. We are the ones who

13:10

are called to be like Christ, and Christ

13:12

is the one who welcomes the little

13:14

children to him. We

13:16

simply so we

13:19

simply want to do that in a

13:21

small way by having a story hour at

13:23

a public building, a building

13:25

taxpayers like us pay

13:27

for and to

13:29

welcome people and give them an

13:30

opportunity, especially

13:33

in a confused climate like

13:35

ours. To hear

13:36

the truth about boys and girls,

13:38

and the truth about the

13:40

gospel of Christ. Think

13:42

Gowdy. Oh. Thank God, this guy is out

13:45

there saving the children. Oh,

13:48

good. Lord, that is a it's

13:50

so important And and I I'm gonna

13:52

call out one thing also that he says

13:54

here. I hate I hate this concept.

13:56

He's like, you know, he was he's

13:58

gonna do this in a building that taxpayers

14:00

like us. Pay for. Fuck

14:03

you and being a taxpayer. You're not

14:05

a great. Right?

14:08

Like you're I hate this whole

14:10

reframing of being a citizen

14:12

into being a taxpayer. Right?

14:15

Right? Like because also, FCP paying

14:17

is not equal. if you follow

14:19

the logic out, then that suggests that

14:21

there are people who are who

14:24

deserve more or deserve less or

14:26

their claims on things are

14:28

more or less legitimate to public

14:30

spaces and whatnot. You are

14:32

a citizen. Right? Yeah. It and

14:34

you have a responsibility to pay your taxes.

14:36

You did not pay for that library.

14:38

The government paid for that

14:40

library.

14:40

Well, not for nothing, but This guy

14:43

probably doesn't even pay taxes. It's

14:46

probably true. He's a

14:48

priest or a pastor or whatever.

14:50

Probably true. He doesn't pay

14:52

taxes. You you don't get to say

14:53

that. What are you

14:55

talking about? Well,

14:57

Dan, the story continues. There's

15:00

more -- There's more. --

15:02

the Faulkner County Coalition for

15:04

Social Justice has announced that

15:06

they've also scheduled a

15:09

story hour later the

15:11

same day to counteract

15:14

and to, quote, drown out the

15:16

hate of the pastor story

15:18

hour. They've they

15:20

they they're sort of short on details.

15:23

They they know that

15:26

they're gonna be there. Somebody's gonna be

15:28

reading and it's going

15:30

to be a

15:32

story. Let me see. They had a list

15:35

of of groups. They're

15:37

gonna make sure that the story is read to the

15:39

children feature persons of

15:41

color, different genders

15:43

-- Right. -- different sexualities.

15:46

Let me ask you this. Where where is this

15:48

again? During trans. This is

15:50

in Arkansas. So I

15:52

know we have listeners that are in the

15:54

area. Yeah. Please

15:56

do your damnedest to make sure that

15:58

that story hour beats

16:00

the pastor story hour in terms

16:03

of attendance. I I yes. Whenever you

16:05

hear about the unfortunately, I think this

16:07

is happening basically as we're recording

16:09

Okay. But go back

16:11

in time, everybody. But that's

16:13

good advice in general. Right?

16:16

Like like, you hear about this stuff

16:18

It's pretty good to go support it if you can.

16:20

Show up. Yeah. All you have to do is just be a

16:22

number. Be a number in the head count.

16:24

Yeah. And that and that can be

16:26

enough. You don't have to say anything. You don't have

16:28

to give your name. Just be there.

16:30

Yeah. Exactly. Alright.

16:32

Well, since we're in the

16:34

the area, I'm gonna go next door

16:36

to Kansas. There was so

16:39

a few a couple years ago,

16:40

after about four

16:42

years ago, after Pennsylvania kind

16:45

of shook everybody's

16:47

world by doing an investigation

16:49

to see how many how

16:51

how much how

16:54

problematic is Catholic

16:56

priests abuse anyway

16:58

really? And and and

17:00

and everybody's jaw dropped to

17:02

the floor -- Mhmm. -- when they actually came out with the

17:04

real numbers. Others a

17:06

few other states dove into the same

17:09

thing. And Kansas

17:11

is one of them surprisingly. The so

17:14

the king Kansas Bureau of Investigation

17:16

or the KBI. Did

17:19

a four year investigation into

17:22

Kansas' Catholic churches,

17:24

and they they didn't

17:27

come up empty handed.

17:29

They they may have discovered a

17:31

thing or two. Oh, no.

17:34

Of the so,

17:36

you know, Kansas is not our

17:38

most populous state. It

17:40

ain't got a lot in

17:42

terms of population, do you want to take a

17:44

guess at how many alleged

17:48

predators This

17:50

is the number of

17:52

of Catholic predators. There

17:54

are four diocese in

17:57

Kansas. A total of four diocese split up into four.

18:00

Okay. How many how many predators do you think that

18:02

they were able to to

18:04

identify in this in this investigation.

18:06

Four years of investigating.

18:08

Five million. That's

18:11

you're very close. A hundred and

18:14

eighty eight. Oh, okay. That

18:16

that is not a small number.

18:17

It's not. Mhmm. For

18:19

for such a small area. Like, I'm I

18:21

was I was kind

18:23

of surprised to learn that they had a hundred and eighty eight people working in the

18:26

Catholic church

18:28

in four

18:31

diocese, but They have plenty

18:33

more than that. Anyway, they said. Yeah.

18:36

So they identified four hundred

18:38

victims of sexual abuse.

18:40

Within these archdiocese since

18:42

nineteen fifty. Now here's the

18:45

here's the thing that is just

18:49

Perfect because this is always how it

18:51

goes. They There

18:53

have been no

18:56

arrests or or even

18:59

charges made based on this

19:01

report. And the and that is

19:03

largely because a lot because

19:05

most of them are passed the statute of

19:07

limitations. Of course. Yeah.

19:09

But what that

19:09

probably means what that says to me and I

19:12

have not looked deep into this, I don't know the

19:14

legalities. I'm in blah blah

19:16

blah. I don't think they looked

19:17

at current stuff.

19:20

Or not enough. I

19:22

think they found a bunch I mean, for

19:24

one thing, you

19:26

know, they're interviewing victims. All of

19:28

these victims have grown up. They've dealt with it.

19:30

You know what I mean? Like, eight

19:32

year olds tend not to

19:34

come forward. Twelve year olds tend not to come forward. You know

19:36

what I mean? Yeah. And when they

19:38

do, there's there are so many

19:40

layers of problem that happen. You

19:42

know, the parents don't want church

19:44

to get in trouble. So they, you know,

19:46

they keep it under wraps or they, you know,

19:48

they don't go to the police, they go to

19:50

the, you know, the bishop, and they say, well,

19:53

this pre may done this thing. And then

19:55

the bishop does the

19:57

classic, you know, priest

20:00

shuffle where they just take

20:02

them, you know, take them out of that parish and shuffle

20:04

them into another parish or whatever.

20:07

And they found just copious

20:10

evidence of this happening, constantly

20:12

all over the place.

20:15

So I, you know, I briefly

20:17

looked over the

20:19

the the document that the the

20:22

on the Kansas government

20:25

website, and it's it's

20:28

astounding. It is not yeah.

20:30

And and of course, you know, what one

20:32

of the things that they found was

20:34

that when the Catholic

20:36

church as, you know, in their own

20:38

internal documents, they're

20:41

using phrases like, it's

20:43

all euphemism. So of

20:45

course, they never say abuse

20:47

or rape or whatever. They talk they

20:49

use phrases like inappropriate

20:52

contract contact or this

20:54

priest had boundary issues.

20:57

No. What? That's

20:59

the euphemism. That's yeah.

21:03

Or frequently, known

21:05

child abusers were sometimes this is a

21:07

call from document. Known child abusers were sometimes

21:10

referred to as having alcohol

21:13

problems. Oh, wow.

21:16

Yeah. They would yeah. They would

21:18

talk about priests retiring as

21:20

opposed to getting kicked

21:22

out. Or yeah.

21:25

Going on sick leave or health

21:27

leave when they were

21:29

yeah. It's the cover up

21:32

has been massive. And this just goes back to the fifties.

21:34

Right? But to cover up,

21:36

the you know, none of this stuff

21:38

was ever made it into civil courts.

21:42

None of

21:42

these people none of these priests were ever

21:44

held to any kind of account -- Yeah.

21:46

-- which you and I are gonna talk

21:49

about later on in the show.

21:51

Right. Accountability

21:54

for

21:54

sins. Yeah. But this

21:56

is it is

21:58

it is unconscionable. And I should have done

22:00

like a trigger warning or something before I dove into

22:02

this. But it is a the

22:05

way that that the Catholic church and

22:08

other churches too, like the Catholics are kind

22:10

of the lightning rod right now

22:12

because they were especially

22:15

egregious. At this. But, you

22:17

know, the Baptist have been

22:19

trying to to be better about

22:21

reporting and stuff and mostly

22:23

they've just done window dressing. They have

22:25

not -- Yeah. -- really taken genuine steps.

22:27

It's it's it's it's

22:31

not good And again,

22:33

this is the same thing about, like, you know,

22:35

these are these are people in a particular

22:37

place of trust. Yeah.

22:40

They are given power over

22:44

people that that makes them

22:46

that makes people extra vulnerable to

22:49

them especially children. Yeah. They

22:51

should be not

22:53

only charged with crimes, but

22:55

extra. There should they they should be

22:57

held extra accountable -- A great sort

22:59

of

22:59

thing. -- and instead they just get away

23:02

from skate. Yeah. Black.

23:06

Alright. That's really awful.

23:10

Well,

23:10

Dan, Yes.

23:12

The US supreme court,

23:14

these are just always

23:17

just great stories lately. They have

23:19

decided to take up a case, to

23:21

hear a case involving

23:23

a Christian postal

23:26

worker's claim that

23:28

the

23:28

USPS, the United States Postal

23:31

Service, did not accommodate

23:33

his

23:33

need to

23:34

have Sundays

23:36

off. So he could go to church. Mhmm.

23:38

And when he was first

23:40

hired, because he worked for the for

23:42

the postal service between two thousand

23:44

twelve and two thousand nineteen. When he

23:46

was first hired, this wasn't

23:48

an issue. The Postal Service

23:52

wasn't doing Sunday deliveries back

23:54

then. But starting in two thousand fifteen,

23:57

they contracted with Amazon

23:59

to deliver Amazon packages on

24:02

sun including on Sundays. I

24:04

did not realize this. Yeah. They did. I

24:06

don't think it's yeah. I don't I

24:08

suspect it's not an

24:11

ongoing thing just because there's all those

24:13

Amazon trucks now. But

24:15

I would assume Amazon's just handling

24:17

that stuff now. Themselves, but

24:21

he had requested when this

24:23

came up for an

24:25

accommodation and his managers were able

24:27

to accommodate it. At the

24:30

time. They arranged for,

24:32

you know, other workers

24:34

to deliver packages on Sundays

24:36

instead of him. Time passed,

24:39

a few years went by, and

24:41

they could no longer accommodate that

24:43

anymore. They just they needed They

24:45

needed somebody to work on Sunday, and they knew it was

24:47

gonna have to be him. So

24:49

he resigned. And after

24:52

resigning, he sued the post office

24:54

for failing to

24:56

accommodate the request.

24:58

A federal judge

25:01

ruled that postal service had provided a

25:03

reasonable accommodation, and the

25:05

offering anything more than that would

25:07

cause undue hardship to

25:09

the employer and to

25:11

his co workers. Right?

25:13

Right. This is this is so key. I love

25:15

this about, you know, Christians who need

25:18

Sunday off. Right. They're fine with

25:20

somebody else working on Sunday. Right.

25:23

And then the

25:25

Philadelphia based third

25:27

US court or I'm sorry.

25:29

The third US circuit court

25:31

of appeals agreed

25:33

with that with that with

25:35

that prior ruling in when

25:37

they heard it in

25:40

two thousand and twenty 580. Well

25:43

So all all of that is correct, and

25:46

those courts are correct, are are right.

25:48

Yeah. But we but

25:50

it's just it's Yeah. But

25:52

the postal worker, his

25:54

name is Gerald Groff,

25:56

and he's asking the

25:58

Supreme Court to reassess

26:00

what constitutes undue hardship.

26:03

Now apparently, this goes back

26:05

to nineteen seventy seven Supreme

26:08

Court ruling called Transworld

26:10

Airlines versus Hardison,

26:12

that sort of established the current

26:15

understanding of what undue hardship under

26:17

federal employment law would

26:20

would be. Right? When asking for

26:22

an accommodation of this kind,

26:24

he is essentially asking the

26:27

Supreme Court to shift the

26:30

burden of the hardship from

26:32

the employer and coworkers to

26:35

the single employee making the

26:37

request. And who knows how

26:39

this is gonna go? Considering

26:41

the current makeup of the court. It

26:43

was a conservative court back in

26:45

twenty twenty two, but it's beyond more

26:48

conservative. Conservative is

26:50

one thing. Crazy.

26:54

And and, like,

26:56

bald faced Christian

26:58

apologize. Yeah. Apologize.

27:00

Is another thing entirely. Yeah. I mean,

27:02

it it's a it this brings

27:04

up a lot of issues because obviously,

27:07

like, you want people to be able to

27:09

seek accommodations. Right? You

27:11

want people to be able to,

27:14

you know, Like, we all have to get

27:16

along. Right? Yeah. And there has to be some give and take.

27:18

And that's what these accommodations are

27:21

are generally about. Right? Is that We

27:23

live in a society. There are different

27:25

people with different needs. We have to

27:27

figure out how to balance them.

27:29

And his his work situation changed. I

27:31

don't know if he was guaranteed he'd

27:34

never have to work on a Sunday when he started

27:36

working for the post office, but

27:39

that changed. Yeah. Now they

27:41

needed someone and And it's kind

27:43

of always my sense of these things. It's like, oh, well,

27:45

you know, like, I

27:48

mean, it probably shouldn't be

27:50

four out of a job for something like that, but that is ultimately

27:53

your conscience, your

27:55

decision. Yeah. That that

27:57

making you resign over something

27:59

like that because you'd

28:01

rather have your coworkers

28:03

work in your place.

28:06

Right? Yeah. Which is just I

28:08

I that's just I love

28:10

that. Right? Like, I just absolutely

28:12

absolutely love that. I don't know. Like, the

28:15

whole Sunday off thing is a

28:17

complicated one because I think

28:19

we should all have a

28:21

day off. Guaranteed every week. Right? But

28:23

is it the same day every

28:25

time? Well, that, I guess, that

28:27

could be the I

28:29

mean, we should all have multiple days off

28:31

if that's what we're talking about. Now, I

28:33

think it's nice, like, there are places in

28:35

this world, fairly secular places

28:37

in this world. That have that

28:39

still do, you know, like, Sunday

28:42

closures for generally,

28:44

for business, for shops,

28:47

and it's it maybe

28:49

it started it for religious reasons,

28:51

and it's clear. They picked Sunday.

28:54

But I think it's I don't know.

28:56

Like, a day when people have generally,

28:59

people have time off together,

29:02

that's gotta be a good

29:03

thing. Right? But

29:06

we I mean, I don't think we

29:08

see it. That is true. I mean, that's already

29:10

the case. Generally speaking,

29:13

Most people work in in in the United

29:15

States, work in office jobs or whatever,

29:17

or or working jobs.

29:20

I don't know if it's most. A lot of people a

29:22

lot of people work in jobs where they get

29:24

Sundays off.

29:25

Right. Where they Saturday is

29:27

why the weekend is That's the that's the tradition. Right?

29:30

You get Saturday and Sunday off. But but

29:32

there are plenty of jobs that don't do that

29:34

and that we need them.

29:36

Well, we need essential services. Right?

29:40

But do do you need

29:42

the supermarket or

29:44

the gap, right, open

29:47

all day on Sunday. Right?

29:49

I don't think

29:52

you do. I think maybe supermarkets

29:54

could open for limited hours. I know there

29:56

are places in the world that do that.

29:58

I think there is value in it.

30:00

And I think from an Americans just have this

30:02

attitude of, hey, I want the convenience,

30:05

my convenience of the store

30:08

being open. I need to go buy some new

30:10

jeans today. I don't care that it's

30:12

Sunday. Right? I want

30:14

that you just you just articulated

30:17

my perspective perfectly. Right. Which -- That's

30:19

true I am. -- which is a -- You never described

30:21

me. -- which is very prevalent

30:23

in this country. Right? Yeah. But

30:25

then yeah. I I

30:27

There are plenty of people who are willing to work on Sundays. But

30:29

there are plenty of people who would

30:31

who that's the employment that's

30:34

available to them. And

30:36

they'd rather not. And

30:38

wouldn't it be better for society?

30:41

Right? For people

30:44

to generally have a day off

30:46

a week to spend with their family, with their

30:48

friends. Right? I don't

30:50

know

30:50

about that. I

30:51

think I think it's a I think I mean, people should get a

30:53

day off, but it whether it has to be

30:55

the yeah. Anyway,

30:58

Look, listeners, you can write in on

31:00

this one. I just think it's really funny

31:02

that we claim family values

31:04

so important in this country.

31:06

Right. Right. And we don't

31:09

do the bare minimum

31:11

of trying to make sure that people

31:13

have time with their families. And the way

31:15

to do that it's hard to

31:18

coordinate time. Right? If you have

31:20

commitments over here on these days and you

31:22

have commitments over there on

31:24

those days, you you you don't match

31:26

up. Right? I'll tell you

31:26

what you're doing right now, Frank. What's that? You're taking

31:29

away a whole bunch of people's excuse for

31:31

not having to deal with

31:32

their family. That

31:35

is rude. I know. This coming from me,

31:37

this is choice. But, like,

31:39

I think what we can agree

31:41

on is that The

31:44

reason for someone to get

31:46

to to be accommodated to

31:48

have Sundays off --

31:49

Uh-huh. -- is not because Jesus.

31:52

Correct. Yeah. Anyway -- Yeah.

31:54

-- alright. Well, I I'm

31:56

gonna close this off with

31:59

with a little bit of a of of a

32:02

terrible tragedy that has

32:04

befallen the whole world really.

32:06

And that is The tragic

32:09

death of one

32:11

cardinal George Pell.

32:13

Oh, let the vending of the

32:15

garments begin and the

32:17

gnashing of Yeah.

32:20

No. Literally, let the band

32:22

play. Thank god this guy

32:24

is now. Fuck that guy. Yeah.

32:26

What a what a piece of

32:29

shit. For those of you who don't

32:31

remember Cardinal Pell, Catholic

32:34

Cardinal from Australia,

32:37

who was convicted

32:40

of would

32:42

oh, I think it

32:44

was I think he was directly involved.

32:46

He

32:46

molested. He was found guilty of

32:49

molesting two boys if I remember

32:51

exactly. But then also covered

32:53

up, you know, did the whole shuffle

32:55

thing, covered up plenty of other

32:57

molestation. Well, yeah, he'd be a hypocrite

33:00

otherwise. Right. Then one one

33:02

must not be a hypocrite. Well,

33:04

and and also, you know, there there is

33:06

the value of

33:09

observing your fellow man in

33:11

the sense of, like, you know, helping other

33:13

priests get away with awful things.

33:15

Any who he

33:18

was convicted, then his conviction was

33:20

overturned by by

33:22

other supreme court ding dongs

33:24

Yeah. The the Australian supreme court ding

33:27

dongs, I believe the victims in this

33:29

case, any who He

33:31

it turns out that his

33:33

death has led to another interesting revelation

33:36

-- Oh. -- that I wanted to

33:38

get into, which is that

33:41

A memo that has been

33:43

circulating around in the Vatican for

33:45

a little bit has been

33:47

revealed to have been written

33:50

by cardinal Pell. Okay.

33:52

This was it was originally signed

33:54

under a pseudonym Demos,

33:57

DEM0S, which,

33:59

you know, I looked up what

34:01

that means. It's and I think

34:04

ironically and you'll get

34:06

to oh, I'll get to why this

34:08

is ironic. That it refers to

34:10

AAA Greek idea

34:12

of sort of

34:14

the people

34:16

being in charge. Oh, okay.

34:19

The reason that that's

34:21

ironic is because one of the

34:23

things that this memo prize.

34:25

One of the things that this

34:27

memo is outraged by. The the

34:29

whole memo by the way is

34:31

just shitting on Pope Francis. It is it

34:33

is just a giant

34:36

dump --

34:36

Really? -- that he took directly on

34:39

Pope Francis. Wow. And one of

34:42

his one of the grand

34:44

sins that Francis committed that

34:46

he is

34:48

disgusted by. And what and

34:50

and let me just say that, like,

34:52

literally, the words that he

34:54

used were things like disaster

34:56

and catastrophe.

34:58

These these are the words that he was putting in there. What

35:00

he was furious about was that

35:02

Francis is actually asking

35:06

the laity what's important

35:08

to the Oh,

35:10

okay. Actually

35:11

asking, you

35:14

know, Catholics what

35:16

they what they think the Catholic church

35:18

should believe and should do and

35:20

how they should act. Okay. Not

35:22

necessarily even acting on it, but just asking the lady,

35:25

just canvassing for information

35:28

about how people

35:30

are feeling. And

35:32

and Cardinal Pell described this as

35:34

a, quote, toxic nightmare. Who

35:40

cares

35:40

what they think?

35:42

We tell them what to think.

35:44

This is a top down organization

35:47

What do we what's next? We're not supposed

35:50

to protect the the

35:51

pedophiles. Come on.

35:54

Well, that's what he's afraid of.

35:57

Yeah. Get the people in charge.

35:59

That's the toxic nightmare that he's

36:01

talking about.

36:01

Yeah. Leo. Yeah. It

36:05

it's literally he's he's

36:07

just mad about he is

36:09

mad about the insertion

36:12

into the dialogue. This is

36:14

this is a quote. Deepening

36:16

confusion, the attack on traditional

36:18

morals, and the insertion into

36:21

the dialogue of

36:23

neo Marxist jargon

36:25

about are you ready? Mm-mm. This is this is

36:27

what Pell is so furious

36:30

about that he's

36:32

pending pseudonymous memos.

36:36

The jargon about exclusion,

36:40

alienation, identity,

36:42

marginalization, the voiceless, LGBTQ,

36:46

as well as the displacement

36:48

of Christian notions of forgiveness

36:52

since ice healing Wow.

36:54

Literally, he's mad that

36:56

the church might take into

37:00

account alienation,

37:03

exclusion, and voicelessness.

37:06

This is what has

37:08

pissed him off so much.

37:11

Like I

37:13

said, oh, no.

37:16

Yeah. Poor poor colonel tell.

37:18

Well, I agree with the Australian government.

37:21

That he does not deserve

37:23

a state funeral. Right. Which I

37:25

thought was, like, just the best

37:27

fuck you. Like, I guess it

37:29

was both Victoria and New South

37:31

Wales were just like where he had spent both

37:34

in both places he had spent big chunks of his

37:37

of his career. And so

37:40

there was some expectation.

37:42

Normally somebody in that position, I guess,

37:44

in Australia, they

37:46

would throw as a state funeral for.

37:48

Which -- Right. -- isn't that doesn't really happen for in

37:50

the United States. It's usually leaders,

37:53

but I guess, this is a

37:55

tradition there. Political leaders. Yeah.

37:58

It's a tradition there to do this.

38:00

And and

38:02

so but they're both just like, no. No. We're

38:04

good. Yeah. And it's alright. And I

38:07

guess the the their

38:09

national government has sort of

38:11

been largely silent on on the topic

38:14

of just like

38:14

Yeah. No. We we want to avoid You

38:17

guys wanna do big honors for

38:19

a pedophile. Anybody? Anybody

38:22

looking to to lay him in state?

38:24

No? Come on. Okay. Look, I mean,

38:26

they should throw a

38:28

state funeral that's a state

38:30

celebration. Right. Right?

38:32

Like, get out the marching bands.

38:35

Yeah. Dingdong,

38:36

the witch is dead. Yeah. Plays that.

38:38

That

38:39

is funeral. Yeah. That is not funeral. Whatever this

38:41

is. Yeah. They should just

38:43

be celebrating in

38:46

the streets. Oh my god. Literally such a bad

38:48

person and and

38:50

so boldly

38:52

so. Yeah. And so,

38:54

like, as soon as, like, he

38:56

he was, like, the higher court

38:58

overturned the lower courts thing. Didn't he just,

39:00

like, I'm out of here and spent the rest

39:02

of his life at the Vatican. Like, yeah. Oh,

39:05

yeah. Where nobody could touch him.

39:07

Right? If anybody just decided if

39:09

anybody else decided to come forward, he was

39:11

untouchable. Right. It's just amazing.

39:13

Like, how how do you

39:15

not see it? When

39:18

literally your complaint about

39:20

the Catholic church, about your

39:22

church is that they're

39:24

speaking up for the voiceless and they're

39:26

worried about exclusion and they're worried about alienation. How

39:28

do you not know that

39:31

you're the bad guy

39:33

in that moment? You

39:36

know that you're -- Yeah. -- that it's a church. Right?

39:39

Anyway -- Yep. -- there

39:41

you go. If you friends at

39:43

at home have anything

39:45

to say about this or any of

39:47

our our topics today, please feel free to write it into

39:50

us. Podcast at thank god

39:52

I'm atheist

39:54

dot com. Or call on leave as a voice mail message we'd love to hear

39:56

from you. The telephone number is

39:58

424666844

40:03

to stick around, there's more

40:06

show coming

40:08

up. Well,

40:20

Frank, Dan. That

40:22

Jesus, you may have heard of

40:24

him. Kind of a thought he was

40:27

cat, fortunately. Jesus said

40:29

that the meek shall inherit

40:32

the

40:32

earth. Mhmm. Yeah.

40:35

And Jesus had a lot

40:37

of wacky ideas. Let's just put it that

40:39

way. You know, he also said, be

40:41

easier for a a camel to go through the eye of a

40:43

needle. That does not mean a door in

40:45

Jerusalem, by the way. Oh.

40:48

No. And then it would for a rich man to get into heaven. But

40:50

I here's the thing. Pastor

40:53

Lance Wallow, you and I have

40:55

have talked about him.

40:58

He's a great maga patriot

41:00

here in these United States.

41:02

Mhmm. Yeah. He knows who's

41:04

really gonna save us. And

41:07

--

41:07

Oh, I mean, he's got a prayer. -- about it. I'm glad

41:09

he somebody finally knows. So let's like,

41:12

yeah. Let's Let's listen

41:14

in on on Lance's little

41:16

baby little prayer. Oh my

41:17

god.

41:19

we pray

41:20

for Elon and we pray for Donald.

41:23

And I pray that you'll complete

41:25

that with a third billionaire. Lord,

41:27

we need one more bad boy billionaire

41:29

raised up. We got Elon. I

41:31

pray you save him. And and given

41:33

Christians around him, Babylon B, have those guys talk

41:35

to him, that'll really get his heart

41:37

and mind engaged and infatuating with

41:39

the radical Jesus.

41:42

Let Donald Trump Lord, he's pray the soonest prayer,

41:44

but I don't think he ever got filled with the

41:46

holy ghost. I pray he needs to have a

41:49

pentecostalin counter lord I don't wanna hear

41:51

this. I don't wanna have the smell of smoke on him for the next two or three years. We want him

41:53

to be supernaturally sanctified by the

41:56

power

41:57

of Save and fill him, Lord

42:00

God. Do it in

42:00

sleep if you

42:01

have to. My

42:04

god. We

42:06

just We need billionaires, Frank.

42:08

Clear. It's the billionaires that'll save us.

42:12

Also, Did

42:14

you count Elon's on their list? Oh. He's

42:16

their favorite now, and he's the

42:19

champion of free speech only

42:21

for them and not for anybody. Oh, wait. I'm gonna

42:24

reinstate you. No. I'm gonna take you

42:26

back. Wait. I just Yeah.

42:28

He's the worst champion they could possibly have, but

42:31

boy are they hanging on to him

42:33

with all their might. Did you

42:34

catch that he that he

42:37

called out the people of the Babylon

42:40

be to beat us

42:42

around Elon. What

42:44

is that? It's a

42:46

fucking parody.

42:48

It's a conservative parody news

42:50

site. They tried to be the onion.

42:53

For, like, conservative

42:56

Christians. Okay. It's bad

42:58

satire. It's not well done.

43:00

But why would you call

43:02

on sadderists? To be

43:04

the ones who are

43:06

going to, like, inspire,

43:08

you know, worthiness and

43:11

and goodness. I don't get it. Like, what he

43:13

probably thinks it's real.

43:15

He probably does. And Brad

43:17

doesn't understand that it's I mean,

43:20

Yeah. Anyway. Literally, they're like,

43:22

when you Google it, their

43:24

their chyron says, Babylon B

43:27

fake news you can

43:29

trust. I'm

43:32

I'm I'm astounded. I'm astounded. Love

43:35

it. Yeah. But there you go. Well, we had we

43:37

had some good listeners right into

43:39

us and call into us. Let's

43:41

start with Alex who wrote

43:43

in to say, Hi, Frank Dan,

43:46

longtime listener from Over the Pond in the

43:48

UK. On the topic of the

43:50

drag show drag story

43:52

hours and the protests, I was

43:54

wondering if the US has any

43:56

panta mines in the UK

43:58

manner. This is a family theater

44:00

show traditionally around the

44:02

Christmas period covering stories

44:04

such as Cinderella, Aladdin, and

44:06

others. The core part of the show is

44:08

that the lead male role is played by

44:11

a woman And every show includes a

44:13

quote, Dame, which is a

44:15

Man in Drag. These shows are

44:17

viewed as Christmas tradition by the

44:19

majority of UK families But

44:21

I feel like in the US, this wouldn't be

44:24

accepted by a large proportion and would

44:26

frankly blow their minds

44:28

that this is viewed as normal in UK

44:30

families. Here's the thing.

44:32

I've never actually been

44:34

able to see liven in person

44:36

a UK pentamime. I've always kind

44:40

of wanted too. Mhmm. I've never been there during Christmas

44:42

time, but I've seen, like, representations of

44:44

it. I've seen them on TV or whatever,

44:46

on on films or whatever.

44:50

And it just looks so

44:53

dumb. It's the same every

44:55

year. I don't know. They

44:58

love it. It's beloved. And I think great. Go for

45:00

it. But you're right. But it's not

45:02

the same as

45:03

drag. Because it's

45:06

it's it's Yeah.

45:08

It's a different tradition. I I

45:10

think you might I'm recalling

45:13

like back when Rudy

45:15

Giuliani dressed up as

45:17

a woman, as a joke.

45:20

Maybe a thing. Right? And

45:22

it's and it's not yeah. That

45:25

has for a long time I

45:27

think less so now. I think now

45:29

that drag like real

45:32

drag is mainstream --

45:34

Yeah. -- in the way that it is.

45:36

I don't think, like, conservative straight

45:39

people will do it

45:41

anymore, but they used

45:44

to. It used to be

45:46

a thing. Mhmm. There's a very interesting there's

45:49

a gin that's that's made

45:51

here in Utah. That

45:54

is named after 580 it's called

45:57

madam Padarini. Right. It is

45:59

named do you know the

46:01

story behind this? Brigham young's son used to perform

46:04

in drag as madam

46:05

Petarini. This is the these

46:08

Mormon's Second, the

46:10

the David miscarriage of

46:13

the

46:13

Mormons, that means anything

46:16

to you. Yeah. Go ahead. It's yeah. He was a

46:18

hateful son of a bitch, but there you go. He was

46:20

their second prophet,

46:22

Sierra and Remelator. Anyway,

46:25

Yeah. It I think

46:28

pantomimes would definitely not fly in the US

46:30

now is what we're getting at. Mhmm.

46:32

But, you know, who knows?

46:34

Who knows? Let's we

46:36

we've got some

46:36

voicemails, do we not? We knew

46:40

indeed, Dan. This

46:42

first one, I'd like to

46:44

play is from River

46:46

who has called in before.

46:48

And they have an idea

46:51

about why women might stay in

46:53

religion. This is in response to something we were

46:55

talking about, I think, last

46:57

week. Okay. Hey, guys. It's

46:59

River from Texas. I was listening to episode

47:01

five seventy nine and 580 were talking about

47:04

some apparent anomalies in

47:06

the patterns of people who were

47:09

not attending church services

47:12

as often as they were. I believe

47:14

it's specifically Mormon church services.

47:17

As a person who grew

47:19

up in the morning in church,

47:21

I thought I'd ask my

47:24

hypothesis to

47:26

the conversation He thought it was interesting that women were not

47:28

leaving as much as men or men were

47:30

leaving more than

47:31

women. And my hypothesis

47:33

on that is

47:36

women

47:37

are in my to mine

47:40

experience more directly

47:43

and insistently told to

47:46

their identities to the

47:48

church. You're not supposed to

47:50

go to school unless it's to find a

47:52

husband and you're not you're supposed

47:54

to be a mother and

47:56

a homemaker above all

47:57

else. Your gender role is

47:59

your entire world. And

48:02

I don't think that's true for me then. And

48:04

then the

48:05

other one was about the more

48:07

educated you are, the less likely you

48:09

were to leave. And I

48:12

think that's two things. One, habit

48:14

and two,

48:16

my understanding of places like Utah and

48:19

Idaho has said if you

48:21

have job, you need to be

48:24

connected to people through

48:27

the Mormon church. In those

48:30

areas, but I could

48:32

be wrong since I've never lived

48:34

there. Anyways, love the

48:36

show. Talk to you soon. You

48:38

know that second point is not a bad point. We can get to the first

48:40

point, but I will say that I I

48:42

know plenty of people who are non

48:44

Mormons who do business in in

48:48

Utah. And you're fine. Well, but there's a pipeline

48:50

there. Like, there's a little

48:52

wink and a

48:54

nod. Between

48:56

garment wearing Mormons here

48:59

in in Utah and and

49:01

in in Mormon heavy places

49:03

where you get that extra little bit of

49:05

of credit or or

49:08

trust or

49:09

whatever. I think Yeah. I think

49:11

in in the context of making, like, business deals and making business

49:14

connections, you're probably right. I

49:16

think it used

49:18

to be that in

49:20

the workplace itself as sort

49:22

of, you know, white collar

49:26

worker that you were passed over for, like, promotions and

49:28

whatnot. Yeah. If if you weren't

49:30

Mormon. And I my

49:32

under I don't really exist in that world. My

49:35

understanding is it's a lot better than it used to be.

49:37

And that there are definitely probably little

49:40

corners of Utah business life that's

49:42

still a little that

49:44

way. Definitely price certain

49:46

companies, but that by and

49:48

large, you can come to Utah

49:50

and get a job and expect

49:52

to advance as long as you're you know,

49:54

competent. Especially in Salt

49:56

Lake. Especially in Salt Lake for sure. Maybe if you

49:58

got into some more rural areas, there's

50:00

like, well, he doesn't go to church, so

50:02

we don't know who he which

50:04

is not unlike a lot of parts

50:06

of the US. With whatever predominant religion

50:08

there is. Yeah. Right. I think though

50:10

this idea that, like, women are

50:14

I think River says shackled

50:16

to their gender identity,

50:20

to their is is

50:22

an interesting one in

50:24

because it's where, you know,

50:26

like, I think they're right that, like, women

50:28

are told to go to school, to not to get

50:31

an education, right, in Mormon in

50:33

them. Right? It's that's where

50:35

the men are. It's

50:38

only a half the joke. Yeah. That

50:40

women go to BYU to get their

50:42

MRS.

50:43

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

50:45

And so it's like, misses. That's a there's a

50:47

mountain. Yeah. Alright.

50:50

Thank you, Dan. So I I think there's

50:52

something there. You know? Yeah. That's an interesting point

50:55

of view. Yeah. No. Wrong.

50:58

Yeah. Jenny wrote

51:00

into us to say hi, Frank and Dan. I was just listening

51:02

to the episode about superstitions.

51:04

I'm a registered nurse. Oh. And

51:06

I spent eight years as an operating room

51:08

nurse in

51:10

east Tennessee see. Wow. Most hospitals in the US

51:12

don't have a thirteenth operating

51:14

room and it's a

51:16

common joke

51:17

To page new staff, to o

51:19

r thirteen, stat. Oh my

51:22

god. That's fine. Classic. Yeah. It's

51:24

a classic Frank.

51:26

Oh, the shenanigans in

51:28

the in the ORs. Also,

51:30

there are many phrases that

51:34

you can't say that your quote can't say on the surgical

51:36

floor. A few of these are,

51:38

boy, sure, is calm

51:40

today? Or Sure. The

51:42

the board, which is the schedule, doesn't look

51:44

too bad today, or I might actually get

51:46

get to leave on time today. Right.

51:49

To utter a phrase like this out loud is

51:51

to invoke swears and glares from

51:53

your coworkers. Also,

51:56

full moons are a big deal. People will swear up and down

51:58

that all the crazy shit happens in

52:00

the hospital during a full moon. Right.

52:04

I'm talking crazy patients, crazy emergency surgeries,

52:06

bizarre problems, etcetera. As an

52:08

atheist skeptic, I don't believe any of

52:11

this sometimes I found it fun to join in the

52:13

crazy talk and other times I just had to

52:15

roll my eyes and let them have their

52:17

fun. Yeah. But people seemed to enjoy

52:19

their superstitions. Yeah. That

52:21

one is

52:21

about sort of like,

52:24

you know, sort

52:26

of crazy patients. That's an old

52:28

one. I mean, the word lunatic

52:31

Right? References to the moon. Yeah.

52:34

Luna. Right? Yeah. Like

52:36

like the idea that, like,

52:38

people who are to this date,

52:41

you weren't at a bar. Mhmm. Did people talk about

52:43

crazy

52:43

people? Did

52:45

did you

52:47

have any superstitious full moon people --

52:49

Not so much. -- ours tended to be when

52:52

Mercury was in retrograde. Oh, yeah.

52:54

That was the one that's

52:55

always That's a terrifying time.

52:58

No. If if any ice

53:02

maker or anything

53:04

broke down, I would always go to

53:06

this one particular coworker

53:08

and be like, can't so is

53:10

Mercury in retrograde? Do you know? Because

53:12

the ice machine just broke? I don't need

53:14

to know. Like, I would do the

53:16

reverse. Right? Like, I would and

53:18

I'm sure he hated me. Right.

53:19

Where is mercury right now? What

53:21

is it doing? Backwards or forwards.

53:23

What's happening? Oh, so

53:26

silly. Forward. So silly.

53:29

have another voice mail. We do.

53:32

This is oh my

53:34

god. I love this

53:36

story. Taylor, called

53:38

in and to tell us about an

53:40

experience on a cruise. Okay.

53:42

It's kinda related to something that

53:44

to another caller from last

53:46

time. Okay. Hi, Dan, Frank.

53:49

This is Taylor from Tampa, and I

53:51

was listening to your episode

53:54

called Superstition. And I had such

53:56

a laugh at the person on the airplane

53:58

who had the conversation about the final

54:02

book And because something similar happened to

54:04

me, in December of

54:06

this past year twenty twenty

54:07

two, my family and I were

54:09

on a

54:10

cruise, and we were at sea. So I had

54:12

staked out some lawn chairs

54:14

by the pool, and I was lying

54:17

there all day. With my partner

54:20

and our kids. And a

54:22

couple sat down next to me while I

54:24

was reading the book of the day, which

54:26

was outbreak a crisis of faith by no illusions.

54:30

And they took a look at my

54:31

book. They

54:32

asked me

54:33

some questions. We proceeded to have a

54:35

wonderful conversation all day.

54:36

Now if you've been on a cruise, you know that

54:39

the real estate around the

54:41

pool is prime

54:43

real estate. And people have

54:46

been circling, looking for seats for

54:48

hours.

54:48

So when

54:48

this couple finally left and another

54:51

couple sat

54:51

down, I figured they'd be there for

54:54

a while. The wife leaned over asked me about my

54:56

book. I handed it to

54:58

her. She looked at the back, looked at the

55:00

front, looked at me, handed

55:02

it back. She smiles. She

55:04

said, have a great day. And she and her

55:06

husband picked up their stuff

55:08

immediately and

55:08

left. I can only assume it's

55:10

because they read the blurb on

55:13

the back outbreak a crisis of faith realized

55:15

that the cross on the front of the

55:17

book

55:17

wasn't in support of their religious

55:20

ideals, but actually in opposition

55:22

to it, and decided to get the hell out of my

55:23

company. To that, I say,

55:24

good writings, to bad rubbish. Maybe we

55:27

should all carry around books,

55:30

that signify our values and beliefs so that we

55:32

can ward off the rubbish. Have a

55:36

great day. Oh

55:38

my god. That's perfect. I love it. I

55:42

Frank, somehow we need to

55:46

start some sort of merch store that will

55:48

give people items

55:50

that can be that can

55:53

ward off annoying conversations. If

55:56

it is powerful enough to get people to

55:58

give up chairs at

56:00

the at poolside,

56:03

there's a power here that we are not

56:06

utilizing properly.

56:08

I mean, they can they could easily

56:11

do. Almost the same in reverse. Just become

56:14

super super christiny next to me, and

56:16

I'm gonna get a

56:18

little one. That's the thing they've

56:20

been wielding that power for --

56:22

Yeah. -- centuries. That's

56:24

true. We could be wielding our power. We

56:26

could be scaring the shit out

56:28

of them. Listen, somebody

56:30

comes up next to you that doesn't look like

56:32

a savory type, doesn't look like the kind of

56:34

person you wanna be sitting next to. Mhmm.

56:36

Toss them a quick hail Satan and see what happens. You

56:39

might you might get out of it.

56:41

Alright. That's

56:41

wonderful. What a funny what a funny

56:44

thing? So

56:46

good. And congratulations to Noah for getting your book into some

56:48

hands. Great job. Yeah. Alright.

56:50

This is from Jordi.

56:54

Hi, Francadan. This is Jordi from Barcelona. I've been listening to your podcast for some time

56:57

and I think it's great. I'm almost sixty

56:59

now and was born and

57:02

raised in the Francoist national Catholicism -- Mhmm.

57:04

-- where everyone was devout and no

57:06

marriage nor funeral took place

57:09

ever took place unless

57:12

presided by a priest. But when the

57:14

dictator died and faith was

57:16

not compulsory, nor the right

57:18

thing to

57:20

do anymore, a completely different reality emerged here in

57:22

Catalonia. Now now

57:24

only ten percent of marriages take

57:26

place in a church and I

57:29

don't recall attending a single baptism for the last thirty

57:31

years. Here, nobody cares if you're

57:33

an atheist or any

57:36

politician is. When I listen to your

57:38

podcast and remember how things were, I

57:40

can't help wondering if lots of people there in

57:42

the United States are just pretending to

57:44

be Christian. On the one hand,

57:46

there's a ton of eye opening

57:48

logical science based content on the

57:50

Internet capable of undermining any

57:52

faith in a matter

57:54

of months. On the other, there's a huge social

57:56

pressure where you can

57:58

be fired, shunned in

58:00

many places if

58:02

you're not a believer or you'll lose your income if you're a

58:04

priest. Put it all together and

58:06

I'd say everyone know everyone knows

58:10

the truth weighs the pros and cons of going out of the closet as

58:12

an atheist and just keeps on

58:14

pretending even when answering

58:16

to polls. There

58:18

are some studies, for example, those related to

58:20

the use of pornography that prove faithful

58:22

people are likely to do the

58:25

opposite to what they preach.

58:28

Pretending allows you to run for office and keep

58:30

a nice social network. Mhmm.

58:32

But Jordy says I've never

58:34

been to the US and this is just

58:38

a hunch. I don't know, man.

58:41

A lot of people

58:43

are pretending. That's

58:45

for sure. Yo. Clearly. And III

58:47

think with politicians, I I would

58:50

love to know the real numbers. Oh,

58:52

yeah. Because,

58:54

like, you you don a persona to get elected

58:56

and definitely well, anywhere

58:58

you're you're you're you're you're you're you're

59:02

playing up the parts of you

59:04

that are gonna appeal in your district. Right? Yeah. Religion is a is a is a

59:06

convenience -- Mhmm. -- for of or,

59:08

yeah, for a lot of politicians, for most.

59:12

Yeah. And so Though I have no problem believing

59:14

that plenty of politicians are

59:16

also true believers. Oh, I I'm

59:17

sure they're plenty. Yeah. For

59:20

sure. So

59:22

There there are people that I genuinely believe, like like

59:25

a Joe Biden. Yeah. I

59:28

I believe that he

59:30

is genuinely

59:32

sincere about his his Catholicism. It serves

59:34

him no political purpose to be that

59:37

demonstratively Catholic.

59:40

I agree. I agree. And I've actually heard stories about

59:42

when he was in the senate, and

59:44

I'm friends with the

59:47

some kids of a former

59:49

Utah senator who used to who used

59:52

to have friendly banter with

59:54

Joe about

59:56

religion. So Yeah.

59:59

Yeah. It's I'll

1:00:01

tell you, it's It's

1:00:05

it's impossible to know how many people truly believe. And here's the other

1:00:07

thing. People can truly

1:00:10

believe like,

1:00:14

in in the concept of their

1:00:16

religion -- Mhmm. -- and still

1:00:18

abandon the the

1:00:20

specific precepts. And we may end up

1:00:22

actually talking about that next week on the show.

1:00:24

Mhmm. But but

1:00:26

they like, there's good data

1:00:29

to show that, like, for

1:00:31

instance, Catholics who, you know,

1:00:33

the Catholic church is

1:00:36

adamant that you can't, you

1:00:38

know, against the gays, but the Catholic Laity is

1:00:40

is fine with gay marriage.

1:00:42

Mhmm. Ninety some

1:00:45

percent of Catholics have used

1:00:48

condoms even though that goes directly that's

1:00:50

US Catholics -- Right. -- even though it goes

1:00:52

direct directly against their the dogma. Right.

1:00:55

I think think it's not it's

1:00:58

not that

1:01:00

that they don't believe.

1:01:04

It's that when it comes

1:01:06

in contact contact with, like, their actual lives,

1:01:09

what's convenient

1:01:11

is more important? Yeah. Probably

1:01:14

so. I don't know. Anyway,

1:01:16

there you go. Do we have some folks to thank? We do

1:01:18

indeed, Dan. We have two new

1:01:20

patrons on

1:01:22

Patreon. We have Todd,

1:01:25

who's a a deacon

1:01:27

-- Yeah. -- now. He

1:01:29

bought his way into The

1:01:32

priesthood. Very well done.

1:01:34

And thank you. And we have a new

1:01:36

priest by the name of Anthony.

1:01:40

Amazing. So thank you to the both of

1:01:42

you. If you'd like to join them in

1:01:44

supporting the show, you can do so.

1:01:46

Please go to our website. Think out I

1:01:48

mattheus dot com and click on the support

1:01:50

tab. Off on the

1:01:52

far right, there's a little thing that'll get you over

1:01:55

to Patreon. Or there's some options

1:01:58

to support a one time

1:02:00

donation or a monthly donation or something. On

1:02:02

PayPal. Yep.

1:02:04

And as always, Dan, we have our top donor to Our

1:02:06

Lord and savior, Davis.

1:02:09

More show coming

1:02:12

up.

1:02:21

Dan. Yes, sir. So

1:02:24

I did something this week that

1:02:26

I I hate to admit that

1:02:29

I don't normally do. Which is I

1:02:31

I listened to last week's episode. If

1:02:33

you listen to our show, I listened

1:02:35

to our show, I

1:02:37

should probably doing it as part of just, like, a

1:02:40

review. Right? Just to, like,

1:02:42

make sure that it it that

1:02:44

everything that that we don't

1:02:46

come off as complete idiots.

1:02:48

Right. You know, I would listen but I'm just

1:02:50

not a

1:02:52

fan. But something

1:02:55

really caught my

1:02:58

attention. And I I spent

1:03:01

some time thinking about it because we were we were

1:03:03

dancing around something

1:03:07

that all of a sudden a light bulb went

1:03:09

off in my head while listening

1:03:11

to us like just skirting this

1:03:13

this idea that

1:03:16

I had. And now, this is in reference to a story

1:03:18

that was actually trigger warned

1:03:20

about. So some of you may not

1:03:22

have actually listened

1:03:24

to

1:03:24

it. So without going into the details that would require

1:03:26

the trigger, that would require

1:03:28

the second warning. Thank you. It

1:03:32

it was a

1:03:33

story having to do with a

1:03:35

really heinous sex

1:03:37

crime. Mhmm. And

1:03:40

this this guy's pre sentencing, and

1:03:44

he says something to

1:03:47

the effect of that he

1:03:49

had accepted Jesus

1:03:52

and or that

1:03:54

he knew that Jesus had forgiven him. That's

1:03:56

what it was. And that he

1:03:58

hoped that that he didn't say this exactly like this, but that victims

1:04:00

who hadn't already accepted

1:04:02

Jesus would also accept Jesus

1:04:04

and that so that they could be

1:04:07

saved as well. And and and that was the gist of the

1:04:09

story that, like, that was the part of it that, like,

1:04:12

infuriated me. And it was the reason for bringing

1:04:14

it up. And

1:04:16

so we you and I, we spent

1:04:18

some time talking about the

1:04:20

idea of for

1:04:23

Jesus being this

1:04:25

font of forgiveness. Right. Right. That you

1:04:28

go to Jesus for

1:04:30

forgiveness and that that's that that's

1:04:32

actually wrong

1:04:34

because Jesus wasn't he

1:04:37

doesn't represent the victim.

1:04:39

Right. Right. How how dare

1:04:41

he give forgiveness for

1:04:43

something? That he's not the representative of.

1:04:46

Because and this is what we

1:04:48

didn't say.

1:04:50

Jesus died

1:04:52

for, quote unquote, our

1:04:55

sins. Right? Right. He

1:04:57

didn't he didn't die.

1:04:59

He didn't take upon the

1:05:01

suffering, at least not in any kind of Christianity I've ever

1:05:03

heard of, especially not more the

1:05:05

way it's taught

1:05:08

in Mormonism, he did not

1:05:10

take on the pain

1:05:12

of the victims --

1:05:14

Of those sinned against -- Of

1:05:17

those sinned against. And so there if

1:05:19

you push it just a little bit further, how

1:05:21

dare he misrepresent?

1:05:27

Right? Yeah. Forgiveness.

1:05:30

Because the person who's going to

1:05:32

Jesus for

1:05:34

forgiveness is I guess

1:05:38

they're admitting that they did something wrong,

1:05:40

but the transgression that they're

1:05:42

admitting to is against

1:05:44

Gowdy.

1:05:44

Yeah. It's not a transgression against their fellow man.

1:05:47

Right. Right? They have broken a

1:05:49

little Gowdy.

1:05:52

Forgive me for my sins. Right. Well, guess

1:05:56

what? That's not who you

1:05:57

that's not who you need to go

1:06:00

to. Right.

1:06:02

And you said you did a bunch of research. I did a

1:06:04

a quick cursory look now for

1:06:10

For scripture about

1:06:12

how to apologize. Yeah.

1:06:15

Or how to make amends with

1:06:17

the person that you actually fuck.

1:06:19

Right. And what did you

1:06:22

find, Dan? It's not

1:06:24

there. Literally,

1:06:26

the scriptures are like I

1:06:28

like, you know now got I'm open bible dot

1:06:31

info. Yeah. And I and it

1:06:33

says, you know, I

1:06:35

put in apologizing and it's

1:06:37

sixty six bible verses about

1:06:40

apologizing. Yeah. But they're not about

1:06:42

apologizing. The first one

1:06:44

confessed your sins to one another and pray for one another that you

1:06:46

may be healed. But it's your Right.

1:06:48

Okay. Not much. Not much there.

1:06:52

You could you if if that was, like,

1:06:54

the weakest of the statements about poll

1:06:56

apologizing. You could be, like, oh,

1:06:59

okay. This is about apologizing. Right.

1:07:01

But I suspect that's the

1:07:04

strongest of the of the biblical

1:07:06

verses about Apologies.

1:07:08

The rest

1:07:09

of it is about forgiving. Mhmm. And that you've

1:07:11

skipped an important

1:07:13

step there. Yeah. Be

1:07:16

kind to other than one another,

1:07:18

tenderhearted, forgiving one another as

1:07:20

Gowdy in Christ forgave you. Yeah.

1:07:22

No. You don't owe

1:07:25

anyone forgiveness. Oh, but forgiveness

1:07:27

is required of Christian. It

1:07:29

is required. Right?

1:07:32

Like, it is you are required

1:07:34

to forgive the trespasses

1:07:36

of others. Right? Right. Like,

1:07:40

you you that's in that's in

1:07:42

the the the the Lord's prayer.

1:07:44

Yeah. That's right. From give us our

1:07:46

trespasses as we forgive those who

1:07:48

trespassed against us. Right.

1:07:50

But nowhere in there is there's

1:07:53

there's no instruction

1:07:57

on how to actually seek

1:08:00

forgiveness. Right?

1:08:02

There's nothing in there. The the the

1:08:04

the the bible and Christianity

1:08:06

at large is silent

1:08:09

on the topic. And it's

1:08:11

and because of that, I

1:08:14

I don't know. Like, it just it seems to me

1:08:16

that Christianity shifts

1:08:19

all of the responsibility. For

1:08:24

anything that you've done

1:08:26

wrong over to Jesus.

1:08:28

Right? Or over to,

1:08:30

like, the the victim. It's the responsibility of the

1:08:32

victim -- Oh. -- to forgive --

1:08:34

Sure. -- not the responsibility of

1:08:37

the perpetrator --

1:08:39

Right. -- to make amends. Yeah. I

1:08:41

said that wrong. It's your responsibility though to go to Jesus. Yes. Right.

1:08:43

And so you it

1:08:46

it it yeah. It

1:08:48

doesn't I I

1:08:50

I'm coming up short on this idea of, like, of ever hearing this properly

1:08:56

taught growing

1:08:58

up. No. Right? Like like,

1:09:00

I don't like, and and I have

1:09:02

to admit that, like, I have

1:09:05

felt at times of my life,

1:09:08

on this

1:09:12

topic. Right? That I didn't

1:09:14

understand it. And and I and I did not understand it. And as I was starting to

1:09:20

understand, the idea of forgiveness

1:09:22

and what it what it really is. Right? Boy, I had some

1:09:24

hang ups. Right? Mhmm. I

1:09:26

had the hang up of no,

1:09:30

you have to forgive. If somebody

1:09:32

comes to you and asks for an apology, you

1:09:34

have to forgive. Yeah. Right? If someone says, I'm sorry,

1:09:38

Even, you know, a lot of people will even take

1:09:40

it a step further and, like, if even

1:09:43

if the person hasn't apologized, has

1:09:46

done nothing to make

1:09:47

amends. You have to forgive. Yeah. And here's the thing. I think

1:09:49

that there's actually some health and

1:09:51

some healing

1:09:53

if you can find it in you.

1:09:55

To let go of resentment, to let go of -- Sure. --

1:09:57

of anger and all of that

1:09:59

stuff. But I don't know

1:10:01

if if that

1:10:04

requires forgiveness. No. I

1:10:06

mean, if look, if a person is unpenetant, if a person

1:10:09

cannot find

1:10:12

within them, the

1:10:14

wherewithal to to ask for forgiveness -- Mhmm. --

1:10:16

to relate like,

1:10:20

because let look,

1:10:22

I'm gonna I wanna go over

1:10:24

my view, and this is not there's

1:10:26

this is just Dan's personal opinion. And

1:10:30

I I wanna hear

1:10:32

your opinion on what truly asking

1:10:34

for forgiveness requires. Because for me,

1:10:38

If you want to if you want to

1:10:40

apologize. If I want to apologize, this

1:10:42

is the standard to which I

1:10:45

hold myself. And I and and also I

1:10:47

kind of hold other people who are

1:10:50

apologizing to me to

1:10:51

the standard

1:10:51

as well. If if

1:10:54

it's a real apology, that person needs to be able to articulate,

1:11:00

why It was wrong -- Mhmm.

1:11:02

-- what they did. Right. How it that they need to articulate that they

1:11:04

understand why it

1:11:07

affected the other person

1:11:09

negatively? Mhmm. Like, and and that they understand the

1:11:11

the the potency of

1:11:16

that? I think they need to

1:11:18

be able to articulate all those things and then commit to

1:11:20

endeavoring not to

1:11:23

do it again. Right. Yeah.

1:11:25

And if all of those things feel sincerely in place,

1:11:27

I am very quick to forgive. That's

1:11:32

good. That's just me. Yeah. I don't

1:11:34

require it of other people. I don't think that it's that it's necessary

1:11:37

to to be

1:11:39

a forgiving person. I

1:11:42

for my for my own piece, III tend to be very quick to forgive.

1:11:50

But but that but

1:11:52

if I don't sense that those pieces

1:11:54

are in place, I don't

1:11:56

I'm I'm going to be

1:11:58

suspicious -- Yeah. -- of an apology. Yeah. I think I need

1:12:04

I need to under I don't know that I need

1:12:06

to hear it articulated the way that I want to hear it articulated, but

1:12:09

I need to

1:12:12

understand that that this

1:12:14

runs a little bit more deep than

1:12:16

they know they're in trouble. Right. Or that they're they're

1:12:18

they're they're they're sorry for the consequences. Right? I'm

1:12:22

I'm sorry that you're angry. Yeah. Exactly. No.

1:12:25

I mean, for me,

1:12:27

Dan, I need

1:12:28

tears. IIII

1:12:30

want the person

1:12:31

sobbing. The messier, the better. I'm

1:12:34

gonna need a grovel.

1:12:38

I'm gonna need I'm gonna need on

1:12:40

your not even on your knees

1:12:42

right now. Are you serious? Are

1:12:46

you even trying? I'm gonna need some gravel here.

1:12:48

No, of course not. But,

1:12:50

like, but, like

1:12:55

yeah. Like, you you need some sense that that some sincerity. Yeah.

1:12:57

And and and and

1:12:59

some attempt to, like,

1:13:01

be in your shoes

1:13:04

to, like, sort of understand what your

1:13:06

perspective on this. Well, it cannot it cannot just come from their own

1:13:08

perspective. Right. A big

1:13:11

part for me is the

1:13:16

rectifying and making sure that it

1:13:18

it it doesn't happen again.

1:13:20

Mhmm. Right? That that

1:13:22

an understanding that, like, you

1:13:24

know, maybe I'm a

1:13:26

jerk. Right? But I'm working on

1:13:29

it. Right. And I'm

1:13:31

I'm I'm trying not to be. Right? Something along

1:13:34

these lines. None of this is modeled

1:13:38

by Jesus --

1:13:40

No. -- taking your sins on

1:13:42

him.

1:13:42

No. No. It's such it's such

1:13:45

a it's so fucking

1:13:47

backwards and it's such

1:13:48

a cop out. It's such a it's

1:13:50

not that, you know, you're being left off let

1:13:53

let off the hook too easily.

1:13:55

Right? But you are. Right?

1:13:58

Right. The the Christian message

1:14:01

of forgiveness lets you

1:14:04

off the hook. And I

1:14:06

I this has to be

1:14:08

And I obviously, this is a sort of

1:14:10

a new lens that I'm gonna be looking at a lot of things through. But it it

1:14:13

just seems

1:14:16

to explain a lot

1:14:18

of the ways in

1:14:20

which Christian culture and Christian

1:14:22

societies are fucked up. Yeah. Well,

1:14:26

and it also shows us, like,

1:14:29

what you know what you

1:14:31

almost never see is Christian

1:14:36

organizations and Christian,

1:14:38

like, leaders actually

1:14:40

apologizing. You almost never see

1:14:42

it. Every now and then you'll see it. Right. You know, tearful, jerry, fall

1:14:44

well, or whatever. No. But,

1:14:46

Terry, jerry and Walt, Walt,

1:14:50

fall well. Sorry, Buddha. He

1:14:52

was that was forgive

1:14:55

me, Lord. Yes. Right? Right.

1:14:58

That Not forgive me victims. Not I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. Person actually

1:15:04

hurt. Or even did he

1:15:06

apologize to the congregation for breaking their trust? Yeah. Maybe.

1:15:08

Did he

1:15:11

I don't remember. I I

1:15:13

would have to go back and review

1:15:15

that. But, like, that's the clip you

1:15:17

remember --

1:15:18

Right. -- is We're doing me,

1:15:20

Lord. The the

1:15:21

Mormon church has never apologized

1:15:23

for anything. No. That's true. They

1:15:26

literally I mean and

1:15:28

they they

1:15:31

have some apologizing to do. Yeah. Yeah. You

1:15:33

know what I mean? Like, the Mormon

1:15:35

church excluded and

1:15:39

and really did a number on people of

1:15:41

color -- Mhmm. --

1:15:43

for decades --

1:15:46

That's until the seventies. For

1:15:48

a for over a century --

1:15:51

Mhmm. -- they are still, like, gay kids and trans kids are

1:15:56

dying. Mhmm. Here in Utah

1:15:58

and Idaho and sort of surrounding states. Mhmm. And the Mormon church

1:16:00

changes

1:16:04

policies. To address

1:16:06

these things. Never ever make amends.

1:16:08

Right. And no attempt at it whatsoever.

1:16:10

And there's Matter of fact, the thought

1:16:15

is anathema to that. Yeah. And admitting

1:16:17

an organization on that

1:16:20

issue, admitting that they

1:16:22

were wrong, and that they apologize. The

1:16:24

power of that is huge

1:16:27

and they refuse to

1:16:30

to to to out of some fear of, like,

1:16:32

admitting that they were

1:16:35

wrong, that that would

1:16:37

that that would make people

1:16:40

What? Let let let's let's

1:16:42

likely Let's try

1:16:43

Let's try

1:16:44

an errands see or

1:16:47

something. Which who cares? Right? Oh

1:16:49

my god. Like this It

1:16:51

is so infuriating. It costs you exactly breath. It

1:16:55

costs you words. Well But it

1:16:58

also costs you, like, the emotional work. Exactly. And that's the thing -- Yeah. -- that that

1:17:04

Jesus didn't come to save

1:17:06

people. Jesus was not the salvation of people. Jesus was

1:17:08

the get out

1:17:11

of work free card. What

1:17:15

Jesus saved people from

1:17:17

apparently -- Mhmm. -- was

1:17:19

the emotional labor. Yeah. That

1:17:21

sick.

1:17:22

Because sick because that's sick. Sick.

1:17:24

That sicko

1:17:26

from last week. Right?

1:17:29

Sitting in some jail

1:17:31

cell. Right. Feeling feeling pretty blue about sitting in jail.

1:17:36

Right. Right. Somehow feels

1:17:38

a little bit better now because Jesus forgave him. And he's fucking

1:17:41

right about

1:17:44

the theology. Oh, he's not

1:17:46

wrong. He hasn't misinterpreted. Oh, not at all. He's just he gets

1:17:48

to sit there

1:17:50

and smugly

1:17:51

go, well, Jesus forgave me.

1:17:54

So so it's the the transaction is done. Yeah. Hope the rest of you get

1:18:00

in heaven. Gowdy luck.

1:18:02

It's it's absurd. It's gross.

1:18:07

And it the wrong way. I I maybe this has

1:18:10

been obvious to a whole bunch of other people. Yeah.

1:18:12

It'd be interesting. But it's shocking

1:18:14

that it hasn't been obvious to

1:18:16

me. I don't know. I'm

1:18:18

glad that you pointed it out. Well, it wasn't obvious to me either. Right? Yeah. And and like,

1:18:20

if this is something that

1:18:22

is, like, somehow taught to other

1:18:26

in other Christian, you know, faiths out there.

1:18:29

And the people are like, what the fuck

1:18:31

is wrong with these? Blame

1:18:33

Mormanism. Just know that it was Mormanism.

1:18:35

But I think it's broader than that. It has to be I think it is. Because

1:18:38

I've never think it is. I've never because

1:18:40

heard Christians dwell

1:18:42

on on this concept. For?

1:18:45

No. When all of the focus

1:18:47

is on forgiveness and none of the focus is on I

1:18:50

mean, they talk about

1:18:52

repentance. Yeah.

1:18:54

But

1:18:54

it's repenting to God. It's repenting to

1:18:56

God. Real repentance. Yeah. It's reading a

1:18:58

bunch of scriptures or saying a bunch

1:19:00

of whatever's. Right? Yeah. It's it's yeah. Exactly.

1:19:02

Say say five our fathers and ten hail Marys and

1:19:05

you're out of you're

1:19:07

out of the woods. Or in

1:19:09

the Mormon church, you can't take Sacramento

1:19:11

for two months or something. Right? Whatever it is. Yeah. But never the

1:19:15

right thing. Right?

1:19:16

Yep. Oh my god. I this yeah. This blew

1:19:19

my

1:19:19

mind. We actually had a different segment planned

1:19:21

and then you brought this up

1:19:23

and I was like, fuck

1:19:26

no. We're talking about this because I

1:19:29

I'm my mind is blown. Alright.

1:19:31

Well, listen, I'm guessing that

1:19:33

some folks have are gonna

1:19:35

have some thoughts. I and I wanna hear them. Yeah. I do too. So if you do, write

1:19:37

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