0:01

Hello, this is the sound of my

0:03

voice. Can you hear me? Do we

0:05

need to be a bit closer? Yeah, move a bit closer if

0:07

you can. You want to have like

0:09

a fist. That's what Joe Rogan says. A fist.

0:11

What are you going to do now? Just punch

0:13

in the mic. Yeah. Okay, that's

0:16

perfect. That seems good. All right. Shall

0:18

we begin? I mean, I suppose we've already begun,

0:20

so we'll begin officially. This is the start. This is

0:22

the start of the podcast. Hey,

0:25

you and welcome. My name is Mike and

0:27

welcome to, I said welcome twice, but welcome

0:29

for a third time. I'll be number three.

0:32

Welcome back to another episode of the That

0:35

Chat That Podcast joined again by

0:37

my co-host Keith. This

0:39

time we're talking about not urban

0:41

legends or witches, thank fuck, or

0:44

mad shit. We're talking about real

0:46

killers and shit like that. That's

0:49

it. Spooky season's over. Everyone to real life spooky

0:51

shit. One honey, one

0:53

honey. Yeah, I know. Halloween is over.

0:55

Autumn is over. Let's get to real

0:57

murders and spooky shit going back

1:00

from serial killers from today to back in

1:02

the day and all of that. But you know

1:04

what? You know, listen up. I

1:06

think the fans know that I was

1:08

in Boston for a time. You were

1:10

here, so we were recording abroad, separated

1:13

by thousands of miles, but close in

1:16

heart. So Keith, how you been? How does it

1:18

feel? Does it feel good to have me back?

1:21

It does, yeah. No, it's great to be back

1:23

in the old That Chapter Podcast studio. At the

1:25

top of the Empire State Building. That's it, yeah.

1:28

Where we're not on Zoom. I'm

1:30

physically in the room, which is great. I can

1:32

reach out and touch you. I can smell your

1:34

pheromones. Nearly, nearly. Disgusting. Yeah,

1:37

no, it's good to be back. It's good to

1:39

be back to actually have proper recording stuff set

1:41

up and, you know, actual audio quality and stuff.

1:43

And I'm not recording off my iPhone, which is

1:45

literally why the last two episodes I was recording

1:47

off, because I did not have a fucking microphone.

1:49

I was like, an iPhone microphone will do. Turns

1:51

out it does not do. But you

1:53

know what? It's all good. You still a bit

1:55

jet lagged? Very jet lagged. Jet lag is the sound of a

1:57

gun. I'll tell you that for free. waking

2:00

up I can't go to sleep till like 5am and I

2:02

wake up at like mad hours it sucks

2:04

I hate it and there's nothing I can do you

2:06

said it great when we were texting you today

2:09

it's like I'll try and drink I'll get myself

2:11

so drunk I'll collapse and then

2:13

you know that'll cause you're my high over I'll force myself to go

2:16

to sleep via my good friend

2:18

Mr. alcohol nope turns out I

2:20

get like an hour of sleep and then I wake

2:22

up hungover at like 2 o'clock in the morning yeah

2:24

it did work for me either like on my flight

2:26

back also I think I picked a really

2:28

bad seat I picked a window seat which I thought

2:30

would be great but then there was a guy sitting

2:32

beside me and then you have to go to the

2:34

bathroom and stuff straight away the guy was like he

2:36

put on his eye mask he put on headphones put

2:39

a blanket on pulled the seat right back and does

2:41

KO so I was like I was drinking wine trying

2:43

to get as like drunk as I could to pass

2:45

out and fall asleep and I was like

2:47

oh you got the bathroom man I was trying to wake

2:49

this guy up you're trying to like spider-man over him yeah

2:51

so I tried to wake him up and he's not getting

2:53

up so alright I'll try and just like stand over him

2:55

yeah so then like I stood over him with one leg

2:57

and that was the moment he decided to wake up peek

3:00

through the eye mouth you'd be straddling in the dark on

3:02

the plane and

3:08

go I'm so sorry go back to sleep don't

3:11

mind me but then it then I was like I'm gonna

3:13

stop drinking cuz I'm gonna have to keep going to the

3:15

bathroom yeah so yeah yeah then I kind of like you

3:17

fell asleep for maybe half an hour then woke up and

3:19

got to enjoy the hangover awake I

3:22

could feel it hangover seeping in as the drunk is I

3:24

know it is up there's nothing you can do you have

3:26

to create a bear well as well it's

3:28

been a while since we talked about it because we

3:30

have oh yeah another thing is that people are always

3:32

asking when are we gonna see Keith when are we

3:34

gonna see Keith especially cuz I was talking about it

3:36

you'll see him when you're fucking good and ready this

3:38

way that's when you'll see him the

3:40

more you ask the less you're gonna see him I'm

3:42

at that point now sick and tired of this pro

3:45

Keith fucking propaganda bullshit also it's

3:48

not that exciting I'm just gonna put out a picture of you

3:50

I'm not even gonna fucking I think we've built it up so

3:52

much that people are gonna be so disappointed we haven't even built

3:54

it up we just decided not to show you and I think

3:56

it's gotten to such a stage that people are gonna be so

3:59

fucking When they see you and they

4:01

actually might just unsubscribe from the podcast every time I look

4:03

in America Like

4:06

guy gagging just with you this guy again, but

4:09

yeah keep it all up here I

4:11

genuinely think we should just post picture black haters keep this

4:13

picture you like taking a shit or something There's

4:19

the best way to introduce you but I

4:21

know he will be in a video we Keith While

4:24

I was in Boston Keith came over and we

4:26

went to Salem and we filmed some stuff There's

4:28

another video I wanted you on Salem So I've already

4:31

I've already put out one video and that was more

4:33

of a Halloween themed video next I want to make

4:35

another video That's Salem, but just like history and all

4:37

the creepy shit that's happened They're not necessary to which

4:39

shit but because there's been a lot of really interesting

4:42

like murders and shit that's happened there So Keith was

4:44

there and we we did it off Didn't

4:46

we keep everything thing we did sounds like huge so

4:48

we got like we were I think we're there for

4:50

a day and a half Yeah, yeah, yeah, then we

4:52

got it all done. We did my dogs were barking

4:54

at the end. Yeah, I know I know Definitely

5:01

barking but yeah, yeah another

5:03

thing what's the story we were haunted house

5:05

been a while since I asked you about

5:07

it It has you know, it's been quite

5:10

kind of hoping with like hot with Halloween

5:12

stuff I was like preparing myself for some

5:14

spooky stuff, but nothing it's been quiet Maybe

5:16

they go take a little break, but last

5:18

you heard is that they were saying mama Mmm

5:21

last episode. Yeah. Yeah, so I haven't heard any

5:23

more voices. Thank God cuz I was there I

5:25

was refund creepy that is very fucking creepy. Yeah.

5:28

Yeah, didn't they things got real then? This

5:31

is actually fun. Yeah Not

5:33

enjoyed this You take more

5:36

videos and shit and I'll put it all up on

5:38

Instagram even though I keep saying I'm gonna do it

5:40

I will actually do it, you know easy

5:42

that you should get a setup a time lapse in

5:44

your place I get a film trip tonight like a

5:46

night camera or whatever. That's good. Yeah, cuz I feel

5:48

it's like the house itself It's actually fine like downstairs

5:50

is grand but the attic is definitely through there. There's

5:53

a weird feeling in the attic, but it's strange Yeah,

5:55

well, I think we already briefly talked about this. I'm

5:57

not sure if it was on mic, but um Everyone

6:00

record an episode from your attic. Yeah, we'd even we

6:02

can even video it like just record it I think

6:04

that'd be really really cool. Yeah, we'll do it over

6:06

there. Do it over the whole Christmas period Yeah, let's

6:08

record an episode. We talked about like some serial killer

6:10

or something. Yeah, okay cool And we'll film as well.

6:12

We can do a video and put on the channel

6:14

you tell okay, that'd be cool Yeah, all right. Let's

6:16

do that don't so all right. Is this one things

6:18

you say we're gonna do would never actually do no

6:21

We'll do it. Yeah, okay. We will it Okay,

6:23

I'm psyched All right, that's

6:25

all the bullshit out of the way now. Let's get

6:27

to the story Today we're

6:29

talking about Mel Ignito. He's a real bastard So

6:31

that's kind of all we need to know before

6:33

we get into it, so let's

6:36

get into it. Let's do it. Let's do it This

6:43

old one takes us to Kentucky Louisville By

6:46

the way if anybody fucking tries to correct

6:48

my pronunciation of Louisville you can fuck off

6:52

Every time I do a story set

6:54

there. They're all over me about no It's

6:56

some people say to Louisville or Louisville or

6:59

Louisville or a Lewis like seriously It's crazy. It

7:01

was like ten different run stations I would have

7:03

said looseville, but I know that's not right and

7:05

you know what if you have a problem ever

7:07

since it loose No, it's definitely Louisville or Louisville.

7:09

Yeah, maybe that you know what you can say

7:12

though, Louisville I'd say Loisville have it

7:14

we just say that I'm finding his problem

7:16

They just lick our balls Let's just say

7:18

Kentucky and that is where Brenda Sue Shafer

7:20

and Melvin Henry Ignito met on a blind

7:22

date in September 1986

7:25

the date was arranged by the boyfriend

7:27

of Brenda's best friend her best friend

7:29

being Joyce Smallwood Melvin known as

7:31

Mel now he was far from Brenda's usual type

7:33

so it's a bit weird to be set up

7:35

with this guy on a Blind date he was

7:37

14 years older, and she was he was 50

7:40

and she didn't find him like that at

7:42

all physically attractive Like he wasn't a terribly

7:45

good-looking guy But those things were low on

7:47

the priority list for Brenda when

7:49

it came to finding Lerv

7:52

She was far more drawn to the fact

7:54

Mel seemed completely enamored with her and there

7:56

was no doubt He could ride a

7:59

good life for her Their first date

8:01

was a couple's date with Joyce and her

8:03

boyfriend Bob Davis. The two couples

8:05

spent the date on Ignatow's boat, which is like, I

8:07

mean, he's got a boat like so. You

8:09

can't say no on the boat. No, he can't say yeah. What are you gonna

8:11

do? She's not gonna say

8:13

that. She would never say no because of the implication.

8:17

And then he invited Brenda back to the

8:19

boat again the next night for a second

8:21

date. Now, Brenda, she was a very attractive

8:23

woman, but she lacked confidence, especially when it

8:25

came to her sexuality. Her ex-boyfriend had remarked

8:28

on her timidity when it came to anything

8:30

slightly spicy in the bedroom when they were

8:32

together. Her timidity was at least

8:34

impaired due to her strict religious upbringing.

8:37

Brenda would struggle with her face and

8:39

the consequences of it for most of

8:41

her old life. Like many, she found

8:43

it hard to reconcile her face and

8:45

the ability to enjoy some more earthly

8:47

pleasures. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Melvin

8:52

though, he was the opposite. He was a real horn dog.

8:54

He's a raw dog. He was in

8:56

fact into some of the more extreme

8:58

activities in the bedroom. He got off

9:01

on a degradation and domination in the

9:03

bedroom. Yeah, it's not a great mix

9:05

when you got someone who's still finding

9:08

their feet discovering what they even

9:10

like. And then you got Melvin who's like

9:12

into the ballgags and whips and all

9:14

that kind of stuff. Brenda was

9:16

also drawn to Mel's seeming stability. Her

9:19

previous relationships, including her failed marriage,

9:21

had in part ended because of

9:24

drinking and financial irresponsibility respectively. Regardless

9:26

of her doubts, Brenda was eventually convinced

9:28

to accept Melvin's proposal and the two

9:30

went from casual dating to engaged very

9:32

quickly. Valentine's Day, 1987, was when Mel

9:34

proposed what a big old rock of

9:36

a diamond. Now, there is no doubt

9:38

that Brenda was at least that a

9:40

little materialistic, but she was also carrying

9:42

scars from her earlier relationships that she

9:44

just didn't know how to deal with

9:46

in a healthy way. It's interesting how

9:48

Brenda was such a strict Catholic and

9:51

had such a like Catholic guilt. As

9:53

I said, she wasn't able to enjoy the simple pleasures

9:55

or these earthly pleasures, but still went ahead

9:58

and divorced her first marriage, which... as

10:00

we know is a big no-no in the Catholic

10:02

Church. But it kind of shows just how bad

10:04

it must have been for her to take such

10:06

a big step. And then after her first marriage,

10:08

she went out with a man named Jim Rush,

10:10

who I know we'll bring up again a little

10:12

later in the story, but these two, they went

10:15

out for years and they were madly in love

10:17

with each other, but unfortunately Jim's drinking problem was

10:19

just too much for Brenda. And that led to

10:21

the complete breakdown in the relationship, which devastated Brenda.

10:23

Yeah. By all accounts, because of the divorce and

10:25

then the break up of from the love of

10:27

her life, she was in a very, very vulnerable

10:29

state when El Melvin came along.

10:31

Yeah. Yeah. He was able to woo

10:33

her very easily, I'm sure. Like some

10:35

people said that Melvin, he had a

10:38

bit of charm, but most thought he

10:40

was just playing El weirdo. Yeah. Just

10:42

creeping it real. There

10:44

was a book about this case called Double Jeopardy,

10:47

and it explains that

10:49

Brenda's friend Joyce Smallwood, she wasn't a fan

10:51

of Ignatow at all. Wonder where she introduced

10:53

them then? If she like they were set

10:55

up by Joyce. I think it was her

10:58

boyfriend. Ah,

11:00

right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bob Davis. Yes.

11:03

Yeah. Yeah. So Smallwood said that she saw

11:05

him as a bit of a con artist,

11:07

spinning tails about working for the CIA, proving

11:10

a stash of 300,000 in

11:13

China and having escapades with prostitutes. Escapades.

11:15

I love that. I can have a

11:18

good old escapade, doing it to

11:20

prostitutes. I'll be right back. Wink.

11:23

He was a bullshitter. Aside

11:25

from this type of teenage bravado bragging,

11:27

he also didn't shy away from throwing

11:30

around immature and crude sexual talk

11:32

in just his day-to-day conversations, which

11:34

Smallwood said that she just really

11:36

didn't appreciate at all. So for

11:38

example, the name of his boat

11:40

that you mentioned, it was named

11:42

the Motion Lotion. And he

11:44

once told a female friend that she

11:46

needed to sexercise to lose some extra

11:48

weight. Nice. You know, just a real

11:50

classic guy. And then he also uses

11:53

terms like escapades. Escapades. Prostitute. You

11:56

know what? I'm going to have some

11:58

escapades with my hand. Despite Galis'

12:00

urn if you know what I'm saying.

12:02

Hey, hey. El Pamela, I know five

12:05

friends. Heeeeyyyy. Alright, so let's

12:07

see where this healthy relationship between

12:09

Mel and Brenda will go. Hint

12:12

hint. Nowhere, fucking good. The

12:15

happy times didn't last long. In fact, almost

12:17

as soon as the two were engaged, about

12:19

a year after their first meeting, Brenda began

12:22

to have serious doubts about Mel. She

12:24

told family and friends that Mel was controlling

12:27

and often cruel and abusive towards her. Throughout

12:29

the course of the relationship, Brenda had confided

12:32

in not only her ex, Jim Rush, but

12:35

also her brother Tom's girlfriend, Linda Love.

12:37

And then of course, Joyce Smallwood, one

12:39

of the friends who'd first introduced them. Like

12:42

a lot of people knew Mel was kind of a piece of shit, as

12:44

you also mentioned. Joyce knew

12:46

very well because of his constant lies. Linda

12:49

and Joyce later told investigators that Brenda told

12:51

them both on separate occasions that she was

12:54

very uncomfortable with everything about her sexuality and

12:56

sex in general and intimidated her. Mel

13:00

was completely ignorant of Brenda's feelings

13:03

and would often talk very explicitly about

13:05

his fantasies. Although I'm not even sure if he's ignorant.

13:07

I think he probably just did not give a fuck

13:09

about whatever she thought. He was like, Mel's way or

13:11

the highway. Mel dog is

13:13

in charge now. So

13:17

it was perfectly fine around a Mel, you know, kinky bondage stuff. But

13:20

some of it, bearing in mind that good old

13:22

missionary terrified Brenda, some of

13:24

what he was into was close to illegal. Brenda

13:27

was never 100 percent comfortable, but wanted Mel

13:29

to be happy. Eventually, Mel

13:31

told Brenda he could get a hold of what

13:33

he called sex tablets that would help Brenda get

13:35

in the mood. It's a little bit of a

13:37

mess, huh? He managed to

13:40

persuade her to give him a try. And well, they were just roofies.

13:44

Like it was literally, he literally just drugged her. And

13:46

that was it. Yeah. Brenda

13:48

told Linda Love that she would take the tablets

13:51

and then wake up naked with no recollection of

13:53

what had happened. Which

13:55

is especially fucked up. Well, first

13:57

of all, just the kind of person who would roofie somebody else. And

14:00

also when there's somebody else is your wife.

14:02

I think that kind of makes it even

14:04

extra fucked up. Yes, it's incredibly fucked up.

14:06

Yeah, yeah. I know, drug and something like

14:08

this, like, so they're totally immobilized. Yeah, I

14:10

know, I kind of feel like borderline necrophilia.

14:12

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's

14:14

like you want to have sex with... Essentially

14:16

it's just a body. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah.

14:18

Like, I know they're still living, but yeah,

14:20

I mean... It's not far from

14:22

necrophilia. I think there's different,

14:25

like, sub-genres of necrophilia. Ah, tell me

14:27

more, Keith. You seem to be such

14:29

an expert in this. Uhh...

14:31

How do I... I'm not super. Oh, okay, right. I'll

14:33

pretend you're just making this up and you don't actually

14:35

know what you're talking about. Okay, okay. Yeah. I...

14:38

From what I've heard... No, I think

14:40

there's different, like, genre... Sub-categories or

14:42

genres. It's all very hipster. Okay.

14:44

Over the necrophiliac world. Wow. I

14:47

think one of the lowest wrong

14:49

of this parfilia is someone who's

14:51

attracted to someone who's pretending to

14:53

be dead. Okay. You know, so...

14:55

But they don't actually have sex with a dead body.

14:57

They want their partner to pretend that they're

14:59

dead. So they'll, like, either have them get,

15:01

like, a really cold bath, or they'll

15:03

put a tag on their toe. Put a tag on

15:05

their toe? Put a tag on their toe? Put a

15:07

tag on their toe and cover their body's teeth. You

15:10

know, uh... Love themselves in, like, white makeup. That's pretty

15:12

fucking funny. Yeah, yeah. That is pretty funny. Yeah. It's

15:14

a bit red flag-ish, you know? Yeah! Uh, it's interesting.

15:16

I think it's hard to find someone that's interested in

15:18

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to be, like, all

15:20

male and get yourself one of them renders. That's... Get

15:23

one of those sex habits, that's what you mean. Yeah,

15:25

exactly. Yeah. So, I think all

15:27

that kind of makes it clear. Mel only

15:29

saw women as objects. They were to give

15:31

them pleasure and their satisfaction. Even their happiness,

15:33

well, actually, didn't even come

15:35

anywhere. She was already considering leaving

15:38

him. And when I say considering, she'd basically

15:40

made up her mind was going to end

15:42

the relationship. Mel, on the other hand, was

15:44

more than happy with Brenda. And he thought

15:46

everything was, was grand. So, when he cut

15:49

wind that Brenda was not happy and wanted

15:51

to end things, he was absolutely fucking shit

15:53

furious. He was mad as hell. He

15:55

was so angry, he called up

15:57

his ex-girlfriend, Mary Ann Schor. Now

16:00

calling up an ex at the end of a

16:02

relationship is not that uncommon. But

16:05

Mel didn't call up old Mary-Ann because

16:07

he wanted to rekindle an old flame.

16:09

He wasn't looking for a rebound. What

16:11

he wanted in Mary was an accomplice.

16:14

Nice. Mary was really... Well,

16:16

okay, it's okay to say, she was a piece of shit. She

16:18

was on the track, though. Oh, she was ugly? She didn't tell

16:20

you about? She wasn't, yeah, she wasn't good looking. But

16:23

she was extremely desperate for attention as well. Oh,

16:25

you're not kidding, by the way. Sorry, I just

16:27

brought it up. Yeah. She's fucking

16:29

Legend of the Dogface going over here. Jesus.

16:32

It's okay to say this because of what she was like.

16:34

Yeah, exactly. Folks, I'm not trying to be mean

16:36

here to make fun of somebody's appearance, but you

16:39

should... When you hear what I'm about to tell

16:41

you, you'll be very happy with me making fun

16:43

of her appearance. But while they were together, Mel

16:45

knew of her need for attention and all this.

16:47

And he really played on her insecurities. Mary

16:50

was one of the lucky ones who

16:53

received sexercise sessions in order to remove

16:55

her fatty tissue. Didn't work

16:57

out. She needed more sexercise. But

16:59

Mel, he would also give Mary

17:02

multiple choice quizzes to reveal her

17:04

sexual preferences and also tell erotic

17:06

stories, which is so weird. In

17:08

the end, Mel, he just didn't mean it. He

17:11

was only interested for sex, so he broke up with

17:14

her. And Mary, she was extremely

17:16

jealous of Mel and Brenda's relationship.

17:18

She was... She was basically... Brenda

17:21

was everything that Mary wasn't. And

17:23

she was desperate to get Mel back. So when Mel

17:25

reached out to her, she

17:27

was just... She was like, absolutely, whatever you

17:29

want. I don't know, Mel's gonna get real

17:31

life Dennis Reynolds. Yeah, for sure. I don't

17:33

think he gives a shit about any women

17:36

who are not... They're just objects to him.

17:38

Yeah, for sure. What happens next sounds kind

17:40

of like Dennis takes it too far. The

17:43

gang takes it too far. I

17:48

mean, I'm sure when Mary heard about what Mel's

17:51

plan was, she was even happier.

17:53

Because what happened next and what they did to

17:56

Brenda, it's pretty gross.

17:59

It's very... cold-blooded, disgusting, uh,

18:01

really, really bad. So

18:04

Mel, he was reunited with his former lover,

18:06

and this time Mel decided to let all

18:08

his inner demons out. And he sat down

18:11

with Mary Ann Shore, and a

18:13

yellow legal pad, and he listed out in

18:15

complete detail exactly what he

18:17

wanted to do to Brenda, his

18:20

own wife. Now the

18:22

exercise was far from some twisted

18:24

form of post-breakup therapy. It was

18:26

a to-do list. Over

18:28

the next few weeks, completely unbeknownst

18:30

to Brenda, Mel and

18:32

Mary set about checking off

18:34

items from the preparations section

18:36

of his list. That

18:39

included digging a deep grave in the

18:41

woods behind Mary's house, and the pair

18:43

even scream tested Mary's home, which is

18:45

every bit as messed up as it

18:47

sounds. Mel would literally stand in the

18:49

road outside the house, and Mary would

18:51

scream at the top of her lungs

18:53

so they would know if Brenda's screams

18:55

would be heard later on. And

18:58

the 23rd of September 1988, they were finally

19:00

done with their plans, and they put them

19:02

into action. Now, it's also

19:04

worth knowing here that at no point did Mary

19:06

think this was some kind of messed up game

19:08

or some kind of roleplay. She knew this is...

19:11

No mucking about! This is the real deal. Well,

19:13

maybe if there was a scream test, and maybe

19:15

she told us for a surprise party. Oh yes,

19:17

goody-oh, dude. But then why the grave, Mel? Yeah,

19:20

exactly. This is where we're gonna keep the presents.

19:22

Obviously. So

19:24

that evening, the 23rd of September, Mel

19:26

told Brenda that Mary wanted to see

19:29

her jewelry on the pretense of buying

19:31

it. Brenda had thousands of dollars

19:33

worth of jewelry, and that would actually end up

19:35

being a vital part of a future investigation. So

19:38

Mel waited until Brenda's guard was down,

19:40

she was preparing her jewelry, and then he took

19:43

the opportunity to pull a gun on her, and

19:45

she became his prisoner. He put

19:47

the heat to her head, and he said, You come

19:49

with me, tying her hands behind her back, binding her

19:51

feet, before he stuffed her into the trunk of his

19:53

car, and took her to Mary's house.

19:57

Once there, uh, what happened next can be

19:59

described as... only a

20:01

complete nightmare. So this

20:03

is one of those times I don't often put trigger warnings in

20:06

videos and in the podcasts because I'm, it's a true

20:08

crime podcast, I always kind of feel like you kind

20:10

of know what you're getting. This time I will put

20:13

in a trigger warning, I get it as pretty graphic,

20:15

this part. I'm not going to go into it too much,

20:17

I won't go into the lowered ins and outs because it's

20:20

pretty gross, but at the

20:22

same time I can't just, I don't know, get

20:24

spared to downplay the evil of Mel Ignatow and

20:26

the suffering that Brenda Shafer endured to dismiss it

20:28

that she, we can't just say, she

20:31

was tortured and then murdered. There's a lot more

20:33

to that. So at

20:35

the house, Mel forced Brenda to strip

20:37

off. He then took her into

20:39

each room of the house where he beat her and

20:41

forced her to pose in sexually explicit ways, beginning

20:44

by tying her up and assaulting her

20:46

on the glass coffee table in Mary's

20:48

front room. Throughout the ordeal,

20:50

Mary followed the pair and

20:52

at Mel's command, she photographed

20:54

each position and violation of

20:56

Brenda Shafer. Occasionally,

20:59

Mel would tell Mary to join in with

21:02

Brenda's torment. Together they

21:04

beat, humiliated, raped and sodomized Brenda

21:06

Shafer. All of this because

21:08

she simply just wanted to end the

21:10

relationship. After hours of

21:12

the most sickening and brutal torment any person

21:15

could be made to endure, Mel

21:17

asked Mary to get him something from the kitchen.

21:20

After a couple of minutes, Mel joined Mary in the

21:22

kitchen and he told her it was over. He

21:25

told her he'd strangled Brenda and

21:27

she was dead. In reality, Mel

21:29

used chloroform to finish her off. So

21:32

I don't think it's pretty possible to come

21:34

up with a more undeserved fate than the

21:37

one Brenda met that evening. It's pretty horrible.

21:39

And yet, once she was dead, her

21:41

kidnappers and torturers turned murderers, carried

21:44

her body out to the woods where they had

21:46

a pre-dug grave at the back of Mary's house.

21:49

Once she was buried, Melvin and Mary went

21:51

about their business as usual so nothing had

21:53

happened. Let alone having just committed

21:55

one of the most savage murders ever. Oh

21:57

and this all happened on what would have been Mel's death.

22:00

I'm Brenda's second anniversary of when they

22:02

first met. God, I saw

22:04

it. It's fucked up, isn't it? Yeah, it's really

22:06

dark. Also, it's like, I guess it's kind of

22:08

worth noting as well that chloroform doesn't work the

22:11

same way that it does in the movies. Shocking. I

22:14

know. So in the film, simply

22:16

waving a silk rag of chloroform is enough

22:18

to knock someone out. But in

22:20

reality, that's not the case. Yeah. I

22:23

read up a little bit about it. And

22:25

there was this Lancet Medical Journal, and it

22:27

says that only the right dose of chloroform

22:29

soaked in a rag along with five minutes

22:31

of persistence would knock someone out.

22:33

It takes a long time, yeah. It does, yeah.

22:35

It's not like an Asa and Shiro. But it's

22:37

still a very, very dangerous and volatile and unpredictable

22:39

liquid. Like you shouldn't mess around with it. You

22:41

can still kill you. Yeah. But all

22:43

this to say, I think sadly in our final

22:45

moments, it's likely that Brenda wasn't just quickly knocked

22:48

out. Instead, it's probably she endured suffocation with just

22:50

a random flight of day. Of course, from

22:52

the very next day, Brenda was

22:54

notably absent and uncontactable. Now,

22:57

she wasn't the kind of person at all to like

22:59

not get into get in touch if she was planning

23:01

on being out of contact, especially with her mother and

23:03

her brother, Tom. And it

23:05

was her mother, Essie, and Father John, who

23:07

first raised the alarm that Brenda was missing.

23:10

Brenda's brother, Tom, went to the St. Matthew's

23:13

Police Department to report her missing on the evening

23:15

of the 24th of September 1988, which was the

23:17

day after she was killed. And

23:21

the next morning, Brenda's 1984 Buick

23:23

Regal was found abandoned on the

23:25

westbound lane of Interstate 64. The

23:29

car had been broken into and the radio was missing.

23:32

There was also what appeared to be small spotters

23:34

of blood on the back seat. Detectives

23:37

immediately knew they needed to treat this as

23:39

more than a run of the mill missing

23:41

persons case. Now, Brenda's parents,

23:44

Essie and John, they contacted Brenda's ex

23:46

boyfriend, Jim Rush, to help search for

23:48

her when she first went missing. Jim

23:51

had actually been in touch recently with Brenda

23:53

as she'd been using him as a sanding

23:55

board for all the shit she was going through with Mel

23:57

and had informed him she was in the process of splitting

23:59

up with him. him, divorcing him, and had actually

24:01

been going to meet up with him soon

24:03

to exchange some items for one another on

24:05

the evening she disappeared. And

24:08

during the two year relationship with Melvin, Brenda

24:10

worked as a secretary and assistant for a

24:12

dentist named Dr. William Spalding. In fact she'd

24:14

worked for him for 10 years when she

24:16

met Melvin. She'd worked for him for 12

24:18

years by the time she went missing. Dr.

24:22

William Spalding hated Melvin,

24:24

hated him with a passion. He'd

24:27

instantly seen through Melvin's outward veneer

24:29

of respectability and he absolutely detested

24:31

him for the way Melvin treated

24:34

Brenda. Unlike Melvin, William

24:36

also got on very well with the whole Shafer family

24:38

and they liked him in return. Honestly it seems like

24:41

William was actually probably a little bit in love with

24:43

Brenda, he was our boss but it seems like he

24:45

had a bit of a crush on her and so

24:47

then when she went missing William, well

24:49

he knew exactly where to go. He had Melvin's

24:51

number from the second he heard no one could

24:53

find her. And it ate away

24:55

at him. He knew Melvin had done something to Brenda

24:58

and he was getting away with it. It

25:00

got to him so deeply that he eventually decided he

25:02

had to do something about it. Now William

25:04

wasn't a violent man though so he wasn't going to

25:06

physically confront him and beat the shit out of him.

25:09

Instead he chose to use his smarts and

25:11

a serious threat of violence to try and

25:13

pressure Melvin into saying what had actually happened.

25:17

So what Dr. William Spalding decided

25:19

to do was send Melvin an

25:21

anonymous letter threatening Melvin's life if

25:23

he didn't tell the truth. Unfortunately

25:26

for William he had told his own lawyer

25:28

of his intentions though before sending it. So

25:31

Melvin got this anonymous letter and he took the

25:33

threat at face value and he milked it for

25:35

everything it was worth. He demanded protection from the

25:37

police which was good. In

25:39

fact Melvin was literally given a SWAT team

25:41

to protect him. This led

25:43

to Dr. William Spalding eventually outing himself saying

25:46

okay I sent the letter. He had grown

25:48

terrified of Melvin and even took to carrying

25:50

a firearm in case Melvin came from. He

25:53

got him into trouble and he was dismissed from work for

25:55

bringing a gun in with him. And

25:58

he was arrested and charged with the threat on Melvin. Melvins

26:00

was. Melvin was called

26:02

to testify against him at his trial and

26:04

in a lovely piece of fuck you irony

26:07

the decision to testify against William would later

26:09

come back to bite Melvin in the ass

26:12

many years later. Melvin

26:15

was a real decade and he was going

26:17

to press all charges against William for threatening

26:19

him for sending that letter. So during his

26:21

testimony Melvin was questioned about the state of

26:23

his relationship with Brenda which he described as

26:25

being happy and content. It was great. There

26:28

was no way Brenda was planning on breaking up

26:30

with him and the doctor was just jealous of

26:32

his relationship with Brenda. Spalding

26:34

was sentenced to three years in prison. It likely

26:36

would have been a lot more had it not

26:38

been obvious to the jury that he had no

26:40

intention of following through on the trets and just

26:42

wanted to find Brenda. Mel, by

26:44

the way, was saying the whole time she just took off

26:47

and left him. Don't know where she went. Now

26:49

pretty much everyone had Mel Ignatow pegged

26:51

as the reason for Brenda's disappearance including

26:53

the lead detective in the case, Jefferson

26:55

County Police Detective Jim Wesley. Everybody

26:58

knew Mel had done something to her that she hadn't just ran

27:00

off. Wesley interviewed Ignatow about Brenda

27:02

and got a story about the two having

27:04

driven around in her car and then dropping

27:06

him off at home and Brenda drove off

27:09

herself. Now small details though

27:11

seemed to make no sense to Wesley. For example,

27:13

Mel told him that they'd driven around in Brenda's

27:15

car because he was having trouble with a tire

27:18

on his own Corvette but he'd

27:20

been seen driving it before and

27:22

immediately after Brenda disappeared. And

27:24

it was little things like that that rattled detectives like Wesley

27:26

and just put them on the right trail. Wesley

27:29

disliked Ignatow from the start. He

27:31

even noted that Mel would insist on calling

27:34

the detective Jim and acting like

27:36

they were best friends. Basically

27:38

everyone knew it was Mel, including the mayor

27:40

of Louisville, but there was no

27:42

hard evidence linking him to Brenda's disappearance

27:45

and whatever actually happened to her.

27:47

I don't know if Mel called Detective Wesley

27:49

by his first name as a way of

27:51

acting like Beth Buds. To me it kind

27:53

of seems more he was using his familiarity

27:56

to belittle the detective and project

27:58

a sense of superiority. over.

28:00

Sounds like Mel. But yeah, the detectives,

28:02

they didn't like him at all. Wesley

28:06

felt that Mel knew a lot more than he

28:08

was letting on. Mel, he also

28:10

tried to really control any police or

28:12

FBI interview by asking way more questions

28:14

than he was answering. He was

28:16

obviously just like probing. He wanted to know what the police

28:18

knew. Make sure that he was like in the clear. Yeah,

28:20

yeah. He knew which way the investigation was

28:22

going. He wanted to be in charge all times.

28:25

He was a very controlling person. Yeah.

28:28

But the apparent breakthrough for Jefferson

28:30

County Police came on the afternoon

28:32

of January 9th, 1990. That's a year

28:36

and a bit when Mel Ignatow was

28:38

walking around, whistling, fucking

28:40

happiest guy in the town. While

28:43

everybody's freaking out, nobody knows what happened to Brenda. Mary

28:46

Ann Shore and her lawyer, they wanted

28:48

to talk to the police. A

28:51

few hours later and Mary had told

28:53

them every single thing from

28:56

the planning and screen testing to

28:58

the torture of Brenda and her murder.

29:01

She'd broken down completely and gave

29:03

them every detail, including telling them

29:05

about taking the photos of what exactly

29:07

they were doing to Brenda. And

29:09

she had taken a lot of

29:11

photos. Unfortunately for

29:13

them, Mary though was also known

29:16

to tell a few, few porky pies and

29:18

clearly had a grievance with Mel. The

29:20

grievance being she was in love with Mel.

29:22

She didn't like him dumping her. She hated

29:25

that he'd gotten with Brenda and then after

29:27

he had used Mary to help kill Brenda,

29:29

he probably threw her away again. She

29:31

also didn't know where the photographs that she had taken

29:33

had actually ended up. Mel

29:36

probably destroyed them as soon as the police came

29:38

snickering around. They really needed

29:40

something solid. Mary agreed to

29:42

wear a wire and talk to Mel about the

29:44

body. She arranged a meeting with him and the

29:46

two met at a car park where she managed

29:49

to get him to talk about the case, but

29:51

the audio wasn't very listenable. So

29:53

initially the plan they were that they were gonna

29:55

go with was they were gonna meet in Mary's

29:57

apartment and Wesley was going to hide.

30:00

in the closet and come out and arrest

30:02

Mel as soon as he can invest. Which,

30:05

you know, as far as plan goes, as far

30:07

as plan goes, it also sounds like they literally swam

30:09

with the very first idea that was thrown out. Like,

30:12

yep, that'll loop. Lunch. I

30:14

like it, dude. But yeah, in the end,

30:16

Mel, he was worried that Mary's apartment would

30:18

be bugged, which is actually a far better

30:20

idea than hiding in the closet. But so

30:22

that's when they decided to go to an

30:24

ice cream party lot. But yeah, I'd like

30:26

to think that it was the detectives that

30:28

decided to meet in the parking lot. You

30:31

know, like, alright boys, we're gonna go in, we're gonna

30:33

get a confession, and then after, banana split the oil. Ice

30:38

cream for everybody! Despite

30:42

a search of the rear of Mary Shore's

30:44

property turning up nothing, which is where she'd

30:46

been buried, and the audio of the

30:48

conversation being, well, not very good, Detective

30:51

Jim Wesley decided they would go ahead

30:53

and arrest Mel Ignatow. And

30:55

when he was arrested, his mother,

30:57

Virginia, immediately called Mel's lawyer, Charlie

30:59

Ricketts, and had him guide them

31:01

through what to do. It

31:04

was the right move, as the very next day, with

31:06

the help of Cadaver Dogs, Brenda's

31:08

buddy was indeed found right where

31:10

it had been buried behind Mary's

31:12

house. Mel was

31:14

held on $500,000 bond, and his house was raided. Inside,

31:19

they found a dirty shovel, a fraternity

31:22

paddle, and a camera with film in

31:24

it. But sadly, not the film they

31:26

were looking for. The camera

31:28

did match Mary's description of the one she'd

31:30

used to take pictures of the torture of

31:32

Brenda, but it didn't have any

31:34

pictures on the film, was not what they were looking for. Do

31:37

you know when Brenda's body was pulled up,

31:39

it was folded over and tied inside the

31:41

garbage bag? Wow. It

31:43

really just shows how little Mel actually thought of her. Luckily

31:46

for Mel though, he had one hell

31:49

of a lawyer. Charlie Ricketts was an

31:51

ex-fed and former president of the Louisville

31:53

Bar Association. Mel Ignatow was

31:55

known to Ricketts from an earlier running with the

31:57

law back in 1984, when

31:59

Mel had been slapped with a 30-day prison sentence and a $2,500

32:01

fine for tax evasion. Managed

32:05

to keep his job as salesman at the time

32:07

by telling his boss that he was on an

32:09

extended vacation Which is I think is the best

32:11

thing to do. If you're ever

32:13

in jail for a short thing, Hey, I'm

32:15

in holidays! Mel even sent his boss a

32:17

letter from prison saying he wished she could

32:19

be there with him where his vacation was

32:21

taking place. I love that. It's absolutely amazing.

32:23

Yeah, what a cover. I think Mel is

32:25

obviously a piece of shit, but you know,

32:27

credit for credit is as- That is gold.

32:29

That's comedy gold, Mel. Chef kiss.

32:31

Yeah. Brilliant. So a grand

32:34

jury indicted Mel Ignatow on charges

32:36

of murder, kidnapping, sodomy, sexual abuse,

32:38

robbery, and tampering with evidence. Mary

32:41

Ann Shore was indicted only on a charge

32:43

of tampering with evidence. And due

32:45

to all the immediate attention the case

32:47

had received in Louisville, Ricketts requested a

32:49

change of venue to avoid a biased

32:51

jury. The request was granted

32:53

and the eventual trial was moved to

32:56

Covington, Kentucky. It took almost

32:58

two years to get Mel Ignatow to trial, and

33:00

when they got him there, it didn't go well.

33:04

Even though they had Mary readily confessing

33:06

to her role in the crime and

33:08

giving them an eyewitness account, she

33:11

did not make for the best

33:13

or most reliable witness. She

33:15

even turned up to court for her testimony

33:17

in a miniskirt and tons of makeup. It

33:20

wasn't only her physical appearance that made her a

33:22

bad, bad witness for the prosecution. She

33:24

literally was having a great time. She would

33:26

smile, she had a big shit-eating grin on

33:28

her face the whole way, she was grinning,

33:30

she was laughing through the testimony, and her

33:32

account of the horrific torture Mel had inflicted.

33:34

She thought it was comedy gold when he

33:36

was doing. Her deal with the prosecution,

33:39

she would only face the charge of evidence

33:41

tampering in return for a witness testimony against

33:43

Mel, and that was used against her by

33:45

the defense. Charlie Ricketts managed to

33:47

make it seem like she was simply jealous, and

33:50

that Mary had killed Brenda

33:52

herself in order to blame Mel

33:54

for it. Even the

33:56

recording of the conversation between Mary and

33:58

Mel didn't hold up. against old

34:00

Charlie Ricketts. Thanks in part to

34:02

the poor quality of the recording, he managed

34:04

to make it appear to the audience that

34:06

Mel hadn't actually been talking about a buddy

34:08

at all. In fact, according to

34:11

Mel and Ricketts, he'd been talking about a

34:13

safe the two had buried in order to

34:15

hide some stolen jewellery. In all,

34:17

the jury heard the prosecution and defence go back and

34:19

forth for 11 days. And

34:21

despite quite a lot of evidence against

34:23

him, Mel was found not guilty

34:26

of the murder of Brenda Shafer. Charlie

34:29

Ricketts later admitted that if he had known Mel

34:31

was guilty, he probably wouldn't have done as good

34:33

a job as he actually did, which is a

34:35

lie, because he's a lawyer. When I read this

34:38

first one going through, I couldn't believe it.

34:40

He got away with it. But even though

34:42

Mel received a not

34:44

guilty verdict, it doesn't really imply that the

34:47

jury believed that he was innocent of Brenda's

34:49

murder. It's not guilty, it'll simply indicate

34:51

that there wasn't sufficient evidence. A reasonable doubt,

34:53

that's it. Exactly, yeah. And this was precisely

34:56

the focus of Ricketts' argument. In his opening

34:58

statement, Ricketts argued that there was no tangible

35:00

evidence connecting Mel Ignito to Brenda's murder. There

35:02

was no fingerprints, there was no pubic hair,

35:04

no blood, semen or abrasions that could link

35:07

him to the crime. He did highlight the

35:09

vandalism to Cara, but he suggested that those

35:11

responsible for the vandalism might have moved the

35:13

vehicle, not Ignito. Ricketts

35:15

also drew attention to the external pressure

35:18

exerted by the public and also the

35:20

media on the police to identify a

35:22

suspect. He specifically mentioned Brenda's employer, Dr

35:25

Spaulding, portraying him as a

35:27

possessive and jealous individual. And yeah, with all

35:29

this, unfortunately Ricketts, he was a very skilled

35:31

lawyer and effectively introduced these points to install

35:33

reasonable doubt, as you mentioned, in the minds

35:35

of the jury. So he's a piece of

35:37

shit, I'm sure he came across as piece

35:39

of shit, but at the same stage, like,

35:41

it's none of evidence there. Yeah, yeah, I

35:43

mean, it's all down to the letter of the

35:45

law. That's it, you know, it's like you have to

35:47

find them guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and yeah. And

35:50

so it appeared that Mel had literally gotten

35:52

away with murder. And he

35:54

walked out of that courthouse a very

35:56

happy man, whistling like he had been

35:58

for the- year and a quarter while

36:01

she was missing before he was even charged. That

36:03

is until a stroke of luck, roughly

36:05

six months later. And that

36:08

was brought about by Mel's legal

36:10

bills. You see, Mel

36:12

wasn't doing well financially and had lost his

36:14

long-time sales job in order to pay Charlie

36:16

Ricketts, who did not work for very cheap.

36:19

And so he had to sign over his home, which

36:22

Charlie would then sell on, to

36:24

a couple named Watkins. The

36:26

Watkins were not fond of the interior of the

36:28

drab chocolate brown house. I decided they'd give it

36:30

a bit of a dress up. They were like,

36:33

you know, this is in the October of 1992.

36:36

You need some cool 90s fashion, Dehoor.

36:38

What 90s decor? Um,

36:40

Jurassic Park posters. Jurassic Park posters. Indian

36:43

Jones posters. I don't know. I

36:46

don't know what are 90s. Uh,

36:48

lots of like white colors. I know. I

36:51

don't know what it looks like. I had a wicker couch.

36:53

Does that count? I don't know. I

36:55

don't know. I know. So

36:59

in the October of 1992, they had their

37:01

contractors in for the first time and they

37:03

proceeded about their business. One

37:05

of the first things they did was rip up

37:07

the old carpeting. And that revealed

37:10

an old air vent, which had previously

37:12

been hidden. Interesting.

37:14

The air vent contained a zipped up

37:17

storage bag with three rolls of undeveloped

37:19

film, as well as all

37:21

of Brenda Shafer's missing jewelry, which is a

37:23

ring and necklace and a tennis bracelet. Now,

37:26

the contractor didn't know at and about the house

37:28

belonging to Mel, and so he contacted

37:30

the Watkins and told them about the shit he'd found. The

37:33

Watkins, they knew exactly who had

37:35

owned this house previously and they picked up the

37:37

phone and called the FBI right away. They

37:40

knew Mel Ignatow used to own the house and they

37:42

knew all about the Brenda Shafer case. Everybody

37:44

did. They also thought Mel had gotten away with

37:47

murder. I'm not sure if Mel is like

37:49

that stupid that he forgot all the stuff hidden in

37:51

the house or he was just that arrogant. I

37:54

mean, it was like, you know, fuck it. If they find it, what

37:56

are they gonna do? I'd say, yeah, he didn't give a shit. I'd say he

37:58

was like, oh, I've already gotten away with that. murder double jeopardy

38:00

they can't charge me with it and like

38:03

he got off on it yeah yeah yeah

38:06

yeah he felt it was like I you know

38:09

controlling or something like I got a bit of bit of

38:11

murder in the murder you know what I mean like I'm

38:14

inside you know I don't know weird like

38:16

that yeah 30 secret is under their feet

38:18

yeah maybe that's not spent too long trying

38:21

to get into the mind of a murder no

38:23

let's spend it I think really truly get inside

38:25

you to commit the door is like you're not

38:29

we're gonna have some escapades tonight I'm wearing

38:31

pants the whole time the first

38:34

thing oh your boy is hard I'm

38:37

always hard always ready I'm gonna stand up I'm gonna

38:39

have one of those cock rings what one of the

38:41

cock rings that goes around your balls of course the

38:43

first thing the FBI did was develop the film and

38:55

what they received back from the lab well

38:57

the film showed exactly what Mary had told

38:59

him it would though his

39:01

face was never visible anyone who knew

39:03

Mel could clearly recognize him as being

39:05

the man in the photographs forensic

39:08

experts even managed to match the body hair patterns

39:10

of the man and photographs with Mel he must

39:12

have been a very hairy man if you match

39:14

the patterns of his body here with like swirls

39:17

and yeah one is bare motherfuckers just have like

39:19

a really weird party or have like a ball

39:21

spot which you calm with one side of the

39:23

back hair there are a total of 112 photographs

39:26

with each one getting progressively

39:35

worse and worse and they showed

39:37

every step of Brenda Schaefer's last

39:40

moments they now knew 100% way

39:44

beyond any reasonable doubt that Mel

39:46

did in fact kill Brenda only

39:49

they'd already tried him for the crime and

39:51

he had been acquitted double

39:53

jeopardy laws meant there was no way they

39:55

could try him again for the

39:58

same crime Mel

40:00

had no idea about the developments in this case,

40:02

and was going about his life as usual when

40:04

the FBI grabbed him up. He

40:06

was taken into custody and ordered to strip

40:08

down to be photographed. He then drew

40:11

attention because there was a female agent in the

40:13

room, but he was shown a court order forcing

40:15

him to comply. He was then

40:17

photographed so they could compare the images

40:19

of his freaking big hairy arse on

40:22

him. And ironically, and this

40:24

is weird, is that he was forced

40:26

to pose in the positions he was

40:28

in in the photographs. So

40:30

yeah, that's hell of a time. There

40:32

was no doubt left, so

40:41

it was Mel in the images and

40:44

confronted by the new evidence. Mel Ignatow

40:46

finally confessed to the murder of

40:48

Brenda Shafer, but he confessed safe

40:50

in the knowledge that they couldn't try

40:52

him Now this is actually very

40:55

similar to a video I made about 6

40:57

or 8 months ago about Tim Hennis. Hennis

41:00

murdered Catherine Eastburn and her daughters

41:02

in Fayetteville, North Carolina back in

41:04

1985. He was

41:06

initially found guilty of the murders, but

41:08

then he was retried, and he was

41:10

found not guilty when they

41:12

tried him a second time due to some

41:15

faulty witness statements. When

41:17

new DNA evidence years, decades later,

41:19

proved he actually did murder them

41:21

after all, he couldn't be tried

41:23

again because of the double jeopardy

41:25

rule. But in this case, Hennis

41:29

was a former US soldier, so

41:31

he couldn't be tried in a civilian court, but

41:34

he could be tried in a military

41:36

court. So essentially they tricked him back

41:39

into being recalled for active service, and

41:41

then they court-martialed him in a military

41:43

court, and he now is in life

41:45

in prison. It was a

41:48

really good trick they did, yeah. There's

41:50

also a case in the UK

41:52

of Dennis McGrawrey. McGrawrey was initially

41:54

cleared of the murder of 15-year-old

41:56

Jacqueline Montgomery in Ilington, North London

41:58

in 1970. only

42:01

for new DNA evidence years later with

42:03

McGrawy in his mid 70s to prove

42:05

beyond a reasonable doubt that it was

42:07

McGrawy and no one else who committed

42:09

the crime. The original case

42:11

was thrown out by a judge before it ever

42:13

reached trial in 1975

42:16

after the judge ruled the evidence offered

42:18

by the prosecution was purely circumstantial. As

42:20

a result he was able to be retrained and

42:22

finally found guilty and sentenced to 25 years in

42:25

prison, which is a life

42:27

sentence for a man of his age. So

42:29

I completely agree with the legal principle

42:31

of double jeopardy. I get

42:33

it. It makes sense. Like without without if the

42:36

government would prosecute someone just multiple times. Right till

42:38

I got it right. Yeah,

42:40

get a new jury each time until they've got the

42:43

outcome that they wanted. Also if anyone was

42:45

found innocent they just live in fear

42:47

their whole life thinking that at any moment they can be just

42:49

brought back to trial again. But I

42:51

don't know in cases where there's cold hard

42:54

evidence that comes to light and they

42:56

also get a confession like this. Yeah, it just

42:58

seems madness that the kind of trying for murder

43:00

does that be a cause there should be yeah

43:02

Like on a case by case kind of basis.

43:04

Yeah. Like this is overwhelming that he did

43:06

it. Yeah, you should be else retrying then Yeah, especially if

43:08

he's admitting he did it. He's like what he's like, you

43:10

know, uh, Tom in his nose I mean like I did

43:12

it but you can't fucking do anything. He admitted it. We've

43:15

Photographed back hair everything. What more do you want

43:17

back hair comb over? What am I doing? Mel

43:21

of course had been to trial and certainly

43:23

hadn't been in the military So options were

43:25

severely limited for the investigators who had him

43:27

dead to rights But we're now

43:29

completely hand-strung by the Fifth Amendment protections

43:31

of the Constitution The best

43:33

legal work around they could come up with was

43:36

to try him for the only other thing they

43:38

could prove without a doubt That Mel

43:40

had committed perjury during

43:42

his murder trial He had lied under oath

43:45

to both the FBI and a grand jury

43:47

now nowhere near as serious as the rape

43:49

and brutal murder He had committed but a

43:51

crime nonetheless So Mel

43:54

was prosecuted for perjury and given the

43:56

maximum sentence he could receive with eight

43:58

years and one month As

44:01

he'd already served two years and had

44:04

a year taken off for good behavior,

44:06

he ultimately only served a little over

44:08

five years, and he was released in 1997.

44:12

But then, he was put straight back into handcuffs

44:14

and charged with perjury again, because,

44:17

as we mentioned before, you might recall

44:19

that back during the trial of Brenda's

44:22

former employer, Dr. William Spaulding, when Dr.

44:24

William Spaulding wrote an anonymous letter threatening

44:26

Mel, Mel had stated in his

44:28

sworn testimony that he hadn't killed Brenda, and the

44:30

relationship was actually really, really good, and they were

44:33

getting along great, which was a big

44:35

fat lie under oath. And so

44:37

Mel got another nine years in prison. He

44:40

was finally released for good in 2006, having served

44:43

a total of 14 years

44:45

behind bars. For comparison,

44:47

William Spaulding served three years for the

44:49

letter he had sent threatening Mel, and

44:52

Mary Shore served three years of a

44:54

five-year sentence. So all in

44:56

all, it's a pretty shitty outcome, and I don't get

44:58

this ever been real just as for what happened to

45:00

Brenda, but legally, that

45:02

was the best they could get. And as

45:04

he was being taken away, having been

45:06

found guilty of perjury, Mel told Brenda's

45:08

relatives at the trial. I

45:11

assumed total responsibility for what I did. What

45:14

I did was wrong and horrible, and there

45:16

are reasons, but I'm not going to get into

45:18

that because there are no excuses. I

45:20

just wanted to say to Brenda's family that I

45:22

am very sorry this happened. I know

45:24

all the pain and sorrow and suffering I've caused

45:27

you. I felt it myself, and I want to

45:29

apologize to my own family for the same reason.

45:31

I want to also apologize to all the

45:34

law enforcement agencies and to the judicial system,

45:36

local, county, state, and federal for all the

45:38

grief and burden I've caused them. It

45:41

was not my intent to do that. I

45:43

just hope and pray that all of you will

45:45

forgive me as I ask for forgiveness from God,

45:48

and I hope there's some unknown way that God will

45:50

bring about some good from this. Because

45:52

I know the Bible says, in all things, God

45:54

works for the good of those who love. Which

45:57

is real shitty, thank you. Which

46:00

is like hey, there's reasons for this and you know,

46:02

I'm just sorry it all happened and you know, just

46:04

said good old God How about you forgive me and

46:06

God will too and this all be good. Sometimes the

46:09

best is nothing I think he's just acting like he's

46:11

doing them all a favor. He doesn't really give a

46:13

shit It's not it's

46:15

just like he couldn't have written a

46:17

more faker half apology really Once

46:20

he was released Mel moved back to

46:22

the same area where he murdered Brenda

46:25

In fact, he lived a little over four miles

46:27

away from where she'd been buried But

46:30

there's one final twist to this

46:33

Mel would feel at least a small

46:35

modicum of what he forced Brenda Shaver

46:37

to endure Because on the

46:40

1st of September 2008 Mel

46:43

Ignatow was found dead by

46:45

one of his neighbors He was found

46:48

in a pool of his own blood

46:50

having fallen through a glass coffee table

46:52

the exact same kind of table He'd used

46:55

as a platform to bind and torture Brenda

46:57

years and years before By

46:59

all accounts Mel was pretty much a complete

47:01

pariah in his final two free years and

47:03

his health had got to shit years earlier

47:06

His neighbor Anthony Allen said he clearly

47:09

bled to death alone while desperately trying

47:11

to get help and Yeah,

47:14

he died alone because everybody fucking hated

47:16

the sick piece of shit that he

47:19

was Mary Ainshaw meanwhile, she

47:21

died aged 54 years old

47:23

in 2004 from heart complications But

47:27

I mean that's pretty fitting because she fucking

47:29

had no heart so true Yeah, good riddance

47:31

to her too. There we go karma is

47:33

best served on a shattered glass powder. I

47:35

agree I very much agree final thoughts Uh,

47:39

I guess I don't know some breaks up at

47:41

you. Don't be like Mel. Yeah, that's a hey

47:43

couldn't have said it better myself Don't be having

47:46

any escapades if you know I'm saying Yeah

47:51

There you go, that's the story of Mel Ainto

47:53

the man who got away Question

47:55

mark kind of sort of got away with

47:57

murder a very brutal and horrific murder. He

47:59

deserved But in the end I guess

48:01

he got his he got it. He did he

48:03

did All right Will

48:06

we wrap it up? I think so.

48:08

Yeah. Thank you so much for listening folks. I really

48:11

appreciate it Yeah, shit

48:13

what else does say forgot to do the intro haven't we

48:15

haven't actually recorded a proper podcast in a long time So

48:17

I'm like, I think how do I end this the last

48:19

one we record? I think we tried to do it a

48:21

pub and yeah, we did. I don't know how that turned

48:23

out I think we know it's actually kind of fun I

48:26

think it's a double commode is a bonus episode don't we

48:28

record an apple ball? Okay, the audio was okay with it

48:30

It was actually very listenable. Okay, so for

48:32

the folks at home We want to listen to come out as

48:34

a bonus episode. Don't be a weekly episode It's I don't think

48:36

it's good enough to be a weekly episode because the

48:38

quality it's listenable and it's good

48:41

But it's like not it's like

48:43

this Yeah, which is very good in my if you

48:45

want to feel like you're in a pub drink I'm

48:47

gonna while we're just shit talking. Yeah, this is the

48:49

episode We are talking about what we didn't say low

48:51

and like our trip to America and stuff like that

48:53

and also be and you do Spend about an hour

48:55

telling the entire story of Salem. I got completely card

48:57

way you did Like

49:00

you know, we should record podcasts to shoot the shit about

49:02

our trip and all the stuff We stayed in a hot

49:04

hotel and we were exploring it. We had to say at

49:06

Hyatt Temple We did a lot school shit might make for

49:08

an interesting episode You know something fun

49:11

you and then do you decide it would

49:13

be an error to tell the whole story of the

49:15

sale of which trial You

49:18

said it'd be interesting talk with the history I

49:21

just run with it. Yeah Had

49:23

10,000 words written out, you know, I

49:25

you know what it was I read so much before

49:27

I just needed to get it I would I had

49:30

all this knowledge inside me out. It's like I'd see

49:32

together just vomited. Yeah words Well

49:34

here listen, I look forward to that folks as

49:36

a bonus episode sometime But yeah

49:38

here listen until then please check out the that chapter

49:40

YouTube channel new videos every Tuesday

49:42

and on Fridays So give them a goo

49:45

talking true crime and all the usual stuff

49:47

3 p.m. Eastern 8

49:49

p.m. Irish time And

49:52

yeah here check out the that chapter podcast Okay, so I

49:54

know thing about the podcast is the schedules when it's posted

49:56

or kind of all over the place or you want to

49:58

start Being a lot more Consistent on

50:00

when these podcasts are going live So

50:03

I'm gonna aim just every Monday morning at a

50:05

specific time is what I want to really start

50:07

I want to kind of start stop faffing about

50:09

and start making them like okay every Monday, right?

50:12

And it's on Wednesday. It's on Tuesday. It's on

50:14

this day. So Monday on your way to work

50:16

Yeah, there you go. So hopefully I'll be able

50:18

to stick to that if I don't feel free

50:20

to give me shit about it So force me

50:22

to but yeah, listen,

50:24

thanks so much for listening me Keith.

50:27

Well, I appreciate it. And yeah, all

50:29

right There

50:31

you go, he's classic. So yeah, all right, you've

50:33

been great. Thanks In

50:47

the ball So

50:51

elaborate Okay,

50:58

all right covering break, yeah Give

51:03

away covering. No, no me neither