2:00

whatever I was I couldn't

2:02

believe it so many people it was like in

2:04

their top it top 1% fans top 0.5% fans

2:06

is in their top 10 podcasts top 5 podcasts

2:08

of the of the year yeah I was like

2:10

whoa the podcast isn't even a year old and

2:12

people are listening to it so to all the

2:15

folks out there thank you so much to everybody

2:17

who was in the top 5% listeners of the

2:19

podcast I love you almost as much as people

2:21

who were top 1% of them so

2:23

it's all good no really

2:26

thanks to everybody who's listening I joke

2:28

I joke we love you all no really everybody

2:30

thanks so much for listening to podcasts it means a lot

2:32

to me and big Keith over here we like to joke

2:34

and mess around but no that's your that is really cool

2:36

so thank you so much you can thank them too if

2:39

you want oh yeah no thanks so much absolutely yeah no

2:41

it's amazing I can't believe it like that we kind of

2:43

when we started doing this we were

2:45

just in the pub one day and one today's and

2:47

you said you'd like to have

2:49

a guest on wanna jump on for someone's like

2:51

yeah sure why not yeah then turn out we

2:53

had a lot of fun doing it yeah so

2:55

you kind of release more stuff and like are

2:57

we command we shoot shit have a lot of

3:00

fun and I can't believe people enjoy this yeah

3:02

I know there we go I mean we think

3:04

we're funny but nobody else usually thinks we're funny

3:07

yeah our wives definitely don't think we're

3:09

fun oh no no no I'm glad

3:11

everybody's listening enjoys it I hope you

3:13

enjoyed the episodes to come we ain't

3:15

stopping hopefully into the new year you

3:17

guys will

3:20

keep listening and enjoying and blah

3:22

blah blah all right let's get

3:24

into it yeah oh wait before another thing before I

3:27

get into it sorry any spooky

3:29

tales from the house to haunt

3:31

us since last no it's actually

3:34

not and yeah wonderful not since

3:36

the creepy cat instance yeah spying

3:39

on me having a shower all right well apparently I have

3:41

a cat now so he's always showing up so there

3:44

well hey listen you don't know any stories but

3:46

you got a cat so congratulations yeah yeah awesome

3:48

all right well I mean not awesome because I

3:50

was hoping for a spooky tale there but okay

3:52

all right I'll keep you posted on that people

3:54

I know I like you know

3:56

every day before a podcast we do the podcast

3:59

michael let's keep going I'm gonna tell tomorrow alone in a

4:01

sec, alright. Well it's not up to me man, like I've been

4:03

calling out for the ghost, and I'm like, you can do it

4:05

man, need some content. You should say onces, or get a Ouija

4:07

board out, or do something. Not about a day, I really want

4:09

the place out. Yeah, that's what you should be doing. For

4:12

the content. Think of the content. Think of the stories you'll be

4:14

able to tell in the podcast. Yeah, screw my family, human. People

4:16

are like, oh yeah, exactly, they'll get over it, they'll be fine.

4:18

You get a new family. Alright, now let's

4:21

get into today's stories. Today we're

4:23

telling the tale of Thomas Cream.

4:26

Mr. Cream, it's a real wild one actually.

4:28

It's got a lot of twists and turns,

4:30

travels the continent, and this story starts all

4:32

the way back in the year 1850. It

4:35

was in that year that the world welcomed a man,

4:38

who'd go on to become a

4:40

doctor and an all-round upstanding gentleman

4:42

in society, even travelling to multiple

4:45

continents and countries to spread healing

4:47

around the globe. Or

4:49

at least, that's how it appeared on the

4:52

surface. Unknown to his patients, each

4:54

one of them was nothing more than a potential

4:56

victim to old Tommy Boy, and by the end

4:59

of his life, he'd have a body count in

5:01

the double figures. So let's give it a

5:03

go. Thomas

5:09

Neil Cream's life, more like giving

5:12

him some cream, began in

5:14

Glasgow, Scotland on the 27th of May 1850. Thomas

5:18

was the first of William Cream

5:20

and Mary Elder's eventual eight children.

5:23

Four years after his birth in 1854, William

5:26

and Mary took their young family

5:28

and emigrated to North America. Canada

5:31

actually Quebec specifically. Thomas

5:33

excelled in his schooling, showing an

5:35

aptitude for learning from an early

5:37

age. Throughout his academic years, Thomas

5:39

consistently achieved high grades from starting

5:41

school to graduating with merit in

5:43

1876 from

5:46

McGill University in Quebec. Ironically,

5:48

Thomas' final thesis was on the

5:51

effects of chloroform, and

5:53

the graduation ceremony. He gave a

5:55

speech about the evils of malpractice

5:57

in the medical profession.

6:00

evil in that medical version. That's

6:02

it man. Also while he was

6:04

at university fellow students they did

6:06

notice that Creamy had an extreme

6:08

interest in chloroform and other drugs

6:10

that desensitised patients. I guess at

6:12

the time no one really thought

6:14

that nobody was pretty interested in

6:16

it. I guess looking back

6:18

now they're kicking themselves but interestingly

6:20

as well it was actually a

6:22

Scottish physician Sir James Young Simpson

6:24

who first used a sweet-smelling chloroform

6:26

as an anesthetic. You're laughing at

6:28

me, what's up? It's

6:32

not what you said that's actually pretty interesting.

6:34

For the folks at home the way Keith said

6:36

interestingly he did it with the

6:38

index finger up and he almost like he

6:40

very nearly brushed his glasses up with his

6:43

finger up his nose. That's the only way

6:45

to say interestingly. By pointing your index finger up

6:47

in the air. Interestingly.

6:49

It just gives the folks at home

6:51

a visualization of Keith was very excited

6:54

to tell that story. I love facts.

6:56

I can't be a good fact. So

7:00

having graduated from college Thomas decided to

7:02

pursue a career in medicine. Choosing to

7:05

further his study of medicine across the

7:07

Atlantic in Scotland back in the old

7:09

neighbourhood. Now when I say

7:12

choosing to go back to Scotland to

7:14

pursue his career I mean that with

7:16

some heavy bold quotation marks as Thomas

7:19

had an ulterior motive for selecting the

7:21

destination he did. He wasn't leaving Canada

7:23

for shits and giggles. You

7:26

see around the time of his graduation from

7:28

McGill University in Quebec Thomas had

7:30

gotten himself engaged to a young lady

7:32

named Flora Eliza Brooks. Just

7:35

one month after their engagement in September

7:37

1876 Flora

7:39

became ill and complained of

7:41

severe stomach cramps. In

7:43

a panic her father Lyman Henry

7:46

Brooks a well-to-do hotelier took her

7:48

to a doctor and the doc

7:50

quickly realized that Flora had recently

7:52

undergone an abortion. Something which

7:54

shocked an appalled her father who like

7:57

most of the society at time very

7:59

conservative and... was worried more about what

8:01

his neighbours and the public would think than

8:03

the trauma his daughter had experienced because I

8:05

can't imagine an abortion in 1876 was

8:08

a very pleasant, I mean it's not a pleasant experience now

8:10

but it was I'm sure a very, well a lot worse

8:12

in 1876. Oh 100%

8:15

yeah, really dangerous. Any concern

8:17

for her health disappeared and was replaced

8:19

by a scramble to save face in

8:21

society. The solution that seemed

8:23

most sensible too, her father Lyman, was

8:25

to immediately go and get his gun

8:27

and also the young man who not

8:29

only knocked up his daughter but had

8:32

also seemingly provided her with a secret

8:34

impromptu abortion, something which could have killed

8:36

her. Lyman literally marched the two down

8:38

the aisle at the end of a gun and the

8:40

Holy Union was cemented. And

8:43

Thomas Creme, being the man of honour he

8:45

was, immediately left the country only

8:47

leaving a note behind telling his new wife

8:49

where he'd gone. One day he'd lasted. And

8:51

one whole day. One whole day. And then

8:54

he was like, You're as evil as me!

8:56

Good luck! After

8:59

initially registering at St Thomas's Hospital in

9:01

South London in 1876, Thomas

9:04

attended the Royal College of Physicians and

9:06

Surgeons in Edinburgh and qualified in 1878

9:08

with a license in midwifery. He

9:12

apparently threw away the opportunity to learn at St

9:14

Thomas's to become a surgeon as he prepared to

9:16

spend his studying time looking out for the wealthy

9:19

young ladies around the town. So during

9:21

his time at the college, Flora contracted

9:23

bronchitis and later in August of 1877,

9:25

she died of consumption. Thomas

9:29

then returned to Canada in May of 1878. So

9:33

not long after his wife died, he was like, All right, I'm

9:36

going back in. It's safe, the coast is clear. However,

9:38

rather than return to Quebec, Thomas

9:41

established a medical practice in London,

9:43

Ontario, which I believe is relatively

9:45

close to Toronto. Pretty close. Close

9:48

enough? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I

9:50

live in Toronto, but I never went out to London. Fair

9:53

enough. Yeah. All right. Hey, for

9:55

those of you who were in Ontario, you can

9:57

correct us. I'm sure you will. I'm

9:59

sure you will. Alright, good for you. Thomas

10:02

also cashed in on his experience of

10:04

flora and set himself up a lucrative

10:06

side business providing illegal abortions, mainly to

10:08

sex workers and poor women who couldn't

10:11

afford to raise more children. And

10:13

it's one of those patients that is thought

10:15

to have been Thomas's first victim. The

10:18

body of Kate Gardner was found

10:20

in an outhouse belonging to the

10:22

doctor's office. She was

10:24

found dead of a chloroform

10:27

overdose. In the run-up

10:29

to Gardner's death, rumours were flying that she

10:31

had been having an affair with a certain

10:33

doctor, and had recently found out that she

10:35

was pregnant. With his background

10:37

knowledge in the use of chloroform, the

10:39

affair being public knowledge, and Gardner's body

10:41

being found next to his workplace, one

10:44

would think that 2 plus 2 equals 4 and

10:47

Thomas would be in handcuffs by the

10:49

end of the day, but somehow that

10:51

was not the case, and Dr. Thomas

10:53

Cream instead insisted he had been treating

10:56

her for senescence, and hadn't given her

10:58

medication related to any abortions at all. Now,

11:00

senescence, for those of you who don't know, is

11:03

a disease I have it, Keith

11:05

has it, and all of you listening

11:07

have it, and we're all going to

11:09

die of it. It is terminal, plus

11:11

senescence is really just the scientific name

11:13

for aging. Gettin' out. Gotta get

11:15

a bit of the other senescence kickin' in.

11:18

That's it, like in fairness. I'm feelin' the

11:20

senescence now, so they'll be back, Jesus. That's

11:22

it, it's 100% fatal in all people. Mm-hmm,

11:24

that's exactly it. And seemingly, even though

11:26

he said it, nobody questioned him on it. He

11:28

was like, oh, she died of senescence. Okay. Okay,

11:31

and either nobody could read his handwriting when he

11:33

wrote that down, or nobody kind of gave a

11:35

shit, and in Thomas' opinion, her

11:37

death was a tragic case of suicide. An

11:40

inquest was held into Keith Gardner's

11:42

death, but ultimately there wasn't enough

11:44

evidence to indict Thomas, and he

11:46

walked free, despite Kate's roommate and

11:48

friend, Sarah Long, testifying that she

11:50

believed the good doctor was responsible

11:52

for her death. Another

11:54

doctor also testified that it was

11:57

almost impossible to commit suicide with

11:59

chloroform, as the victim could not keep

12:01

a soaked cloth held over her face. They would pass

12:03

out, drop the cloth before breathing enough of it to

12:05

die. I guess if you start off by lying down.

12:07

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, though. I mean,

12:10

you know, he said that, but like if you just

12:12

lay down the ground and put it over your face,

12:14

it's an elaborate way to do it. And it looks

12:16

so other ways to do it. I don't know why.

12:18

Yeah, I don't know why you'd go that way. Yeah,

12:20

I can only imagine as well when if anybody calls

12:22

in on her face. So this is. Yeah, let me.

12:25

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, chloroform. We I think we spoke about

12:27

it in a previous episode. Chloroform takes a long time

12:29

for it to make you pass out.

12:31

You need like the exact you

12:33

need the exact amount on a rag. I think

12:36

they said you need like five minutes of persistence.

12:38

I don't know. Just pass out. Right. Yeah, that's

12:40

it. That's one of the reasons why it was

12:42

actually eventually stopped from being used

12:45

as medical anesthesia. It's a dosage that

12:47

will actually make a person knock out

12:49

or even do worse. It's very hard

12:51

to very difficult to determine what the

12:53

exact stuff to give people. So

12:55

despite the death of Kate Gardner being

12:58

considered a murder by the coroner, Thomas

13:00

was not prosecuted yet. His

13:03

reputation suffered irreparable damage and his

13:05

once popular abortion service back alley

13:07

abortions was now untenable. With

13:10

the scandal over, but his former high

13:12

standing in tatters, Thomas set off in

13:14

search of a fresh start. He

13:16

did Quebec. He did Scotland. He

13:18

did London. And now he landed

13:20

in Chicago, Illinois. Once

13:22

again, he set up a legit

13:24

medical practice to cover his side

13:26

job giving abortions to sex workers

13:28

from Chicago's West Side District. And

13:31

it was pretty much an open secret among even

13:33

the Chicago Police Department of what business Dr. Cream

13:35

was in, and it didn't take

13:37

too long for yet another scandal to land

13:40

on his doorstep. In

13:43

August of 1880, Thomas's physician's assistant,

13:45

Hattie Mack, suddenly abandoned her apartment

13:47

only for police to discover that

13:50

Hattie had left a little something

13:52

behind in her place, that

13:54

being a rotting corpse. So

13:57

unsurprisingly, the police were very keen to have

13:59

a chat. with Hattie and establish

14:01

exactly why the decomposing body of

14:03

Mary Ann Faulkner was apparently hidden

14:05

in her apartment and had been

14:07

for some time. And boy

14:09

did Thomas' assistant Hattie have a

14:12

lot of feral-scaled della police. Hattie

14:14

straight up admitted that she had been working

14:17

as an assistant to Dr. Cream and he

14:19

had been operating as a backstreet abortionist. She

14:22

claimed that she had been ordered by

14:24

Dr. Cream to keep the body of

14:26

Mary Faulkner at her home as she

14:28

recovered from a recent procedure, but

14:30

she had become ill with an infection and

14:32

it had eventually taken her life. Unlike

14:43

with the Gardner case, Mary's death

14:46

actually did result in murder charges

14:48

being brought against Thomas Cream. At

14:51

the trial that followed, Hattie Mack testified

14:53

that Thomas had told her he had

14:55

performed over 500 abortions,

14:58

sometimes several in a day. Hattie

15:00

herself claimed to have performed 15

15:03

on her own at her recently

15:05

vacated apartment. Unsurprisingly, the

15:07

jury cited in favor with the young

15:09

white doctor over the African-American woman and

15:11

acquitted him of the

15:13

murder charges. I

15:20

know, this story is really wild when I

15:22

was going through it. It starts off as

15:24

this guy who was a back alley abortionist

15:26

and a murderer and then the

15:28

story gets batshit. It gets crazier and crazier as it

15:31

goes on. I keep reminding myself that he's a doctor.

15:34

While researching the case, it was actually

15:36

crazy how many other instances throughout history

15:38

I came across where individuals in the

15:41

medical profession turned serial killer. Now,

15:43

I guess it is important to emphasize that such

15:46

cases are extremely rare, but I guess

15:48

what's frightening is in these rare occurrences,

15:50

when they did happen, they would often stack up a

15:52

sizable number of victims. There seems

15:54

to be a few different types of medical serial

15:57

killer specific to the profession and they're often referred

15:59

to as I'm sure he'd

16:01

heard the Angel of Mercy or the Angel of

16:03

Death. Angel of Death is a good one, yeah

16:06

right. So they would have this pathological interest in

16:08

power over life and death, and in some cases

16:10

they would believe that killing their patient is like

16:12

an act of mercy. And then in other cases

16:14

they would hope to gain the reputation from acting

16:17

like a hero. So there was one example of

16:19

the doctor who would induce heart attacks with medication,

16:21

and then he'd rush in in an attempt to

16:23

save the patient. And then after he would just

16:26

relish in the praise, he would receive... And would

16:28

I just greet? Pretty much, he'd

16:30

just pass on the backs of his colleagues,

16:32

the family's like, oh my god, thank you

16:34

so much. Yeah. There are of course other

16:36

modus medical serial killers, they just want

16:39

sexual gratification or financial gain, and then there

16:41

were some that were just straight-up sociopaths. In

16:43

the case of Thomas Cream, I feel like

16:46

he was in it for financial gain with

16:48

a dash of sociopath. Mmm,

16:50

yeah, yeah, he's a real, real, real son of

16:52

a bitch, as we will see. Folks, I'm gonna

16:55

say it here, it's the mic zone with Mike

16:57

here I'm talking about, and I'm not afraid to

16:59

say it, I'm not gonna let the mainstream

17:01

media tell me any different to Thomas Cream. Son

17:03

of a bitch. Ooh, another bowl of sesame oil. I know, hot

17:05

take, we're in the hot take zone. BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM!

17:08

Literally the same month he was sent

17:11

not guilty of murder in Chicago, another

17:13

one of Thomas' patients died

17:16

after taking medication he'd been

17:18

prescribed. Thomas, naturally, took no

17:20

responsibility and put the blame squarely in

17:22

the lap of the pharmacist who had

17:25

dispensed the prescription and even allegedly tried

17:27

to extort the man in exchange for

17:29

not turning him in. Which is, so

17:31

he was blaming this guy and then

17:34

trying to make money off him. Good

17:36

ol' Tommy boy, love it. Unfortunately

17:38

for Thomas, however, Mr. Frank Pite,

17:40

the pharmacist, rather than pay up,

17:42

went straight to the police and

17:45

let them know what the doctor

17:47

was up to. Sadly,

17:49

there just wasn't enough evidence and the

17:51

investigation went nowhere. Nevertheless, Thomas

17:53

was quickly gaining himself a bad

17:55

reputation with the local police department

17:58

and you'd think that would be enough to convince Thomas. to keep

18:00

his head down for a little bit, but

18:02

he would not do that. It

18:05

wouldn't be long before Thomas Cream would find

18:07

himself again in front of a judge and

18:09

jury. Yet again, Thomas tried to lay the

18:11

blame for a death he'd caused at the

18:13

hands of a pharmacist. I'm

18:16

just writing out your prescriptions folks, as the pharmacist sees

18:18

fulking up and giving them the wrong medication or giving

18:20

them too much or blah blah blah. See

18:23

Thomas had been advertising his services in

18:25

a newspaper, specifically letting it be known

18:27

that he had a handy little cure

18:29

for epilepsy. In February of

18:33

1881, Daniel Stott's wife, Julia,

18:35

contacted Dr. Cream's office to try and get

18:37

the cure for her husband, and was given

18:40

pills by the doctor. Apparently,

18:42

Daniel had actually seen a little

18:44

improvement, and even continued to return

18:46

for further prescriptions for a short

18:48

while. Then, suddenly in June, Daniel

18:51

Stott died, with the official cause

18:53

being an epileptic fit. Had

18:55

it ended there, the doctor likely would have gotten

18:57

away with it, but he just couldn't

19:00

help himself, and he tried to make himself a little

19:02

cash out of this situation. He seemed to have a

19:04

little chut of cheese to be made, you know what

19:06

I'm saying? He went back to

19:08

Julia Stott, a grieving widow, and convinced

19:10

her that the pharmacist who'd filled the

19:12

prescription was responsible for her husband's death.

19:15

And get this, you should sue him.

19:17

He also contacted the coroner's office

19:19

and told him that the pharmacist

19:21

was responsible in order to back

19:23

up Julia's claim. Unfortunately for

19:26

Thomas, however, the coroner was thorough, and

19:28

decided to test the prescription pills on

19:30

a dog. Within the hour,

19:32

the pooch was no more, and it got off

19:34

to the great bam in the sky. Really

19:37

hope it wasn't a family dog. Yeah, oh,

19:39

sorry son. I don't know how we're conversatured.

19:41

I just need to test out these pills.

19:43

Look, I was just trying something, okay? I'm

19:45

sorry, stop crying. The coroner,

19:47

finding that just a little worrying, performed

19:49

a new autopsy on Daniel Stott's body,

19:51

and was shocked to find out that

19:53

at the time of his death, Stott

19:56

had more than three times the lethal

19:58

dose of striking a in his

20:00

system. Strykenin, very

20:03

strong poison. Yeah, it's a

20:05

crazy drug. So it's actually,

20:07

it's a highly toxic, colorless

20:09

alkaloid. And in today's modern

20:11

world, it's used as a pesticide, particularly

20:14

for killing small animals like birds and

20:16

rats. So it's literally just rat poison,

20:19

essentially. Pretty much, yeah. But back in

20:21

the day, Strykenin was available in pill

20:23

form and was used in very small

20:25

dosages to treat many human

20:28

ailments. It was also famously

20:30

used in a similar case from England. So

20:32

only 26 years prior to Daniel Stott's

20:34

death in 1855 in England, a

20:37

English doctor, very famous case, William Palmer,

20:40

poisoned his gambling companion, John Cook, in

20:42

order to steal his winnings. Evan

20:45

has also suggested that Palmer had also

20:47

murdered several other friends and family members

20:49

after first taking out life insurance

20:51

policies and all the money. Nice. Do

20:53

the dance, Mike, do the dance. Yeah. Woo! Charles

20:59

Dickens. He called Paul. I know, I know, I know.

21:01

I'm getting started. Oh, I'm going to run all up.

21:03

Oh, I'm going to run in the face. I'm going

21:05

to have big breathing problems. I'm starting with tears in

21:07

my eyes. You're making me so mad. He

21:10

called Palmer the greatest villain that ever stood in

21:12

the Old Baby. So maybe

21:14

old Tommy Cream got his idea for

21:16

using Strykenin from a fellow doctor. But

21:19

it's a horrible way to go. In

21:22

the case of John Cook, he died in agony,

21:24

screaming that he was suffocating. People

21:26

exposed in low or moderate doses

21:28

to Strykenin can experience

21:30

painful muscle spasms, possibly leading

21:33

to fever, kidney and liver, injury

21:36

and failure, uncontrollable arching of the neck and

21:38

the back and difficulty breathing. Then

21:40

people exposed to high doses of Strykenin may

21:42

have the following signs and symptoms within the

21:44

first 15 to 30 minutes of

21:46

exposure, which will be respiratory failure, possibly leading

21:48

to death, and then also brain death, which

21:51

pretty much it's going to kill you. Funny

21:54

enough, it was actually the finger up again. Interestingly,

21:57

it was also you. as

22:00

a performance enhancing drug due to

22:02

the convulsant effects. During the 1904 Olympics,

22:05

marathon, the track and field athletes

22:08

Thomas Hicks was unwillingly administered a

22:10

concoction of egg whites and brandy

22:12

laced with small amounts of strychnine

22:14

by his assistants to boost his

22:17

stamina. He won the race but

22:19

was hallucinating by the time he reached the finish line

22:22

and he soon collapsed after. But he won! You

22:24

won the race! That's an important thing, right? Worth

22:26

it! So after

22:28

people learned that his patient had been poisoned to

22:30

death, Thomas didn't stick around too

22:32

much, legged it back to Canada. But,

22:34

doing the finger up, he was

22:37

caught and he was arrested before he

22:39

could get far enough away and was

22:41

sent straight back to Chicago to be

22:43

prosecuted for Daniel Stott's death. He

22:46

was up on his second murder charge in September of 1881.

22:48

The trial turned out to

22:50

be a bit of a scandalous affair, quite literally,

22:52

with it coming out in court that actually the

22:55

doctor had once again been getting very friendly with

22:57

Mrs. Stott and the two had been seeing each

22:59

other for some time. Not only was he trying

23:01

to convince her to sue to get some money,

23:03

he was also given a bit of a bit

23:06

of cream, you know what I'm saying? Yeah

23:08

buddy! Julia

23:11

Stott agreed to testify that the doctor

23:13

had seduced her and had come up

23:15

with a plan to kill her husband

23:17

with poison so that the widowed Julia

23:20

could then sue the pharmacist and they

23:22

could split the money. That

23:24

is quite the plan. Unlike

23:27

during his first trial however, Thomas didn't have

23:29

the backing of his family to help out

23:31

financially and it wasn't nearly as much as

23:33

he'd previously made up the front up and

23:35

nowhere near enough to counter the state's evidence.

23:38

Another former lover and patient

23:40

of Dr. Creams, Mary McClellan,

23:43

also testified against Thomas. She

23:45

told the court she had heard Thomas talking

23:47

about Daniel's murder before it had actually been

23:50

made public, before he should have known he

23:52

was dead. Thomas was pretty much

23:54

banged to rights and despite a feeble attempt at

23:56

laying the blame for the murder at the feet

23:59

of Julia, He was found guilty

24:01

of murder and received a life sentence

24:03

to be served at Illinois Penitentiary with

24:06

a little provision that stated he must

24:08

serve at least one day every year

24:10

in solitary confinement for the rest of

24:12

his natural life. That's kind of interesting they put

24:14

that in there. It's weird how it's tag along,

24:17

isn't it? Mm, yeah, you have to spend one

24:19

day every year alone. Think on

24:21

what you've done. I want to get to

24:23

pick today. Christmas Day. Fire at the FU. Of

24:27

course, that should be by all rights have

24:29

been the end of Dr. Thomas Neil Cream.

24:32

But, in a huge coincidence,

24:35

Thomas found himself declared an

24:37

ideal candidate for clemency ten

24:39

years into his sentence. I

24:42

say coincidence because it just so happens

24:44

that Thomas's father, William, had recently passed

24:46

away, and that meant Thomas was due

24:48

to inherit 16,000 pounds. So

24:52

I'm sure that had absolutely nothing to do

24:54

with his clemency, despite the fact that his

24:56

brother, Daniel, was making a lot of donations

24:58

to prominent Illinois politicians. Just funny how these

25:00

things work out. Having come into

25:02

this latest windfall, despite his father completely disowning

25:04

him and cutting him off before his death,

25:07

Thomas enjoyed the good fortune of being

25:09

rich and had his sentence curtailed to

25:11

17 years with time off for good

25:13

behavior. With ten years served, he

25:15

walked free from prison after the

25:17

U. Sentency. Having

25:20

secured his release and having been tragically

25:22

diagnosed with being rich, Thomas's

25:24

immediate preoccupation was getting revenge,

25:26

and for a short while,

25:28

he dedicated himself to tracking

25:31

down Julius Stott, even getting

25:33

the famous Pinkerton Private Detective

25:35

Agency involved. This agency, they

25:37

famously foiled a plot to

25:39

assassinate President-elect Abraham Lincoln in

25:42

1861. This was actually due

25:44

to the efforts of America's first female

25:46

private detective, Kate Warren. It was

25:48

hard by the agency. Unfortunately, four years later,

25:50

he was assassinated. Anyway, where were you guys?

25:52

Yeah, we're doing a great job. Well,

25:55

hey, listen for the folks at home who have played Red

25:57

Dead Redemption 2, the bad guys in the

25:59

game are... the Pinkertons, so there you go. Although

26:01

I think they didn't have a very good reputation.

26:03

I think they were known basically for just hiring

26:05

thugs and breaking up trade union protests and shit

26:08

like that. They were just a big gang of

26:10

brutes and ruffians who go in with baseball bats

26:12

and beat the shit out of people. Yeah, but

26:14

they also foiled an attempt at assassination like that.

26:16

Yeah, but then four years later you got killed

26:18

anyway, so they were shit. Fortunately

26:23

for Julia, however, he soon grew bored

26:25

of his vendetta and he decided he

26:27

jumped the pond once again and set

26:29

himself up in England. Now

26:32

taken with him, a new found

26:34

hatred for all women and a

26:36

handy little drug habit. Needless

26:38

to say, prison hadn't exactly done

26:40

society any favours with Dr. Cream

26:42

and he was far from rehabilitated.

26:44

If anything, he'd become far worse

26:46

and his almost pathological hatred for

26:48

women made him several times more

26:50

dangerous. By the end of October 1891, a

26:52

spat of debts among

26:56

young sex workers in London had

26:58

residents ooh on edge and

27:00

it wasn't that long since Saucy Jack

27:02

had been carving his way through the

27:05

cities less dead and panic

27:07

spread quickly. London

27:09

much like today, dangerous shit hole.

27:11

Big time. I

27:15

joke, I joke. London's alright. I lived there for a bit. Oh

27:18

you did? I did. Yeah, yeah. I lived in, uh, I

27:20

lived in Brent. I

27:23

can't actually remember what my tube stuff was,

27:25

but it was like, um, oh man

27:28

this is gonna fucking piss me off if I don't find out. So

27:30

give me one second. I've never been to London.

27:32

You've never been to London? Well, I've been there

27:34

for connecting flights. Yeah, but you've never actually been

27:37

around a city? No, just Heathrow. That's crazy.

27:39

Yeah, yeah. Which is like a really cool city.

27:41

It's so close. Yeah, I know that's why.

27:43

I was like never, I was there two months

27:45

ago for a concert. Yes, yeah, yeah. And

27:47

the O2 in London. The O2

27:49

actually as a arena kind of sucks, but the concert was

27:52

great. Um, seems like a very busy town. Like there's more,

27:54

what was it? The population of London is greater

27:56

than the whole world? Pretty much,

27:58

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's huge.

28:00

It's cool. It's cool. It's not a cool place that I mean, it's like

28:02

any city You know, it's a lot of cool places in it. There's a

28:04

lot of shittles in it. It's like anything I guess Wills

28:07

and green that's where I would get my

28:09

tube. Shout out to my Wills and green

28:12

homies out there Wuddup?

28:14

Wuddup? That's

28:17

an RA place, yeah, it's fine It's fine,

28:19

it's fine, it's fine Maybe it is

28:21

fine So the person causing

28:24

the deaths of these young sex workers

28:26

had even earned himself a nickname Not

28:28

quite as sexy as Jack the Ripper,

28:30

but the Lambeth Poisoner

28:33

and that was inspiring fear throughout the

28:35

city. The Lambeth poisonings most

28:37

likely began with the sudden death of

28:40

19 year old Ellen Nellie Donworth

28:43

just days after she went out for drinks with the

28:45

now 41 year old doctor

28:48

Having found a tried and trusted

28:51

method Thomas took 20 new worked

28:53

and just like Daniel Stott Ellen

28:56

died after ingesting a huge dose

28:58

of Strikeny just a week

29:00

after Ellen Donworth was discovered dead the body

29:02

of another sex worker 27

29:04

year old Matilda Clover was found on the

29:07

20th of October just like Ellen

29:09

She had recently been out on a

29:11

date with that was Tommy cream dirty

29:13

Tommy dirty Though at the

29:15

time of Mattel's death it was attributed to

29:17

alcohol poisoning due to her alcoholism The

29:20

debts actually stopped for a short while after

29:22

Matilda's death Oddly this reprieve from

29:24

the mayhem just so happened to be at the

29:27

same time as dr. Thomas cream was

29:29

taking a Little trip home

29:31

back to Canada. It was crazy.

29:33

It was like he you know, he kills Three

29:36

people right last person was a was a plot to

29:38

get the money and then it's like he went to

29:40

prison Then as soon as you go to prison, he's

29:42

like, all right, I'm just gonna kill everybody. He's like

29:44

a rampage She's going on in London. Yeah, yeah, I

29:47

mean he had 17 years of plot. That's it He

29:49

was that he was angry when he got it. Yeah, it was

29:51

real mad He's really much Thomas took

29:53

the trip ostensibly to visit family and

29:56

friends But his real intention was to

29:58

refill his inventory back in Canada Canada,

30:00

and while there, Thomas loaded

30:02

up with 500 Streikneen tablets,

30:05

stocking up on his old supply. Given

30:08

the man had served a literal life sentence

30:10

for murdering a man with Streikneen, you'd think

30:12

someone would be keeping an eye on this

30:14

kind of thing at random, but apparently not.

30:18

Thomas returned to London with 500 little

30:20

white discs burning a hole in his

30:22

pocket. And then, to

30:24

everybody's absolute shock, another two

30:27

young sex workers were found dead shortly

30:29

after his return. Both

30:31

21 year old Alice March and

30:33

her flatmate 18 year old Emma

30:35

Shrivell were killed by Streikneen poisoning.

30:39

Thomas shouted up the ladies and ended up talking

30:41

his way back into their shared flat. He had

30:43

a golden tongue, real shatty

30:45

that. He plied them with

30:47

Streikneen laced Guinness. Keith, as a man

30:49

who loved Guinness, I think you would

30:52

drink that. Would that put you off

30:54

if you knew there was Streikneen that Thomas Cream would give it to

30:56

you and you'd be like, glug glug. I'd probably go ahead and drink

30:58

it. It's just a waste of good Guinness. Yeah,

31:00

you can't waste it. Yeah,

31:02

if you're rude, I'll do. And

31:05

so Alice and Emma were found still

31:07

alive but in the final throes of

31:09

agony caused by the poisoned Guinness. According

31:13

to their landlady, Emma Vells, she found

31:15

them after hearing them screaming out in

31:17

pain. The younger girl, Emma,

31:19

had lived just long enough to be able

31:21

to fight through the intense pain to be

31:23

able to give the police a description of

31:26

Thomas Cream. She said that

31:28

they'd been out that evening with

31:30

a, quote, tall, cross-eyed man who'd

31:32

given them each tree pills. No

31:34

need to guess what those hills were. Like

31:37

many serial killers and killers in

31:39

general, it was Thomas Cream's own

31:41

hubris that finally did him

31:43

in and ended his rampage across London.

31:46

At this point, despite him barely covering

31:48

his tracks, Thomas actually did manage

31:50

to escape detection. In fact, he wasn't even on

31:52

the police's radar for the murders at all. When

31:54

he called it a day, or even if he'd

31:56

carried on poisoning in silence, he likely could have

31:59

gotten away with several more murders.

32:02

Instead, like many of his contemporaries in

32:04

his chosen field, Thomas just couldn't help.

32:06

That eagle pushed him to do something

32:08

so stupid, it's generally hard to

32:10

believe he even became a doctor in the

32:12

first place. Get a load

32:14

of this folks. Thomas decided that he needed

32:17

a patsy, a fall guy, to take the

32:19

non-existent heat away from him. He

32:21

needed a fall guy to take the police

32:23

attention away from him. He was under

32:25

zero police attention at all. And

32:27

so, he wrote a little letter

32:29

to the officers investigating the Lambeth

32:31

poisonings. In the note,

32:34

he accused two other men, including

32:36

another doctor of being responsible for

32:38

several killings, including that of Matilda

32:41

Clover. Even though at this

32:43

point, Matilda's death was still considered to have

32:45

been due to her alcoholism as I mentioned

32:47

before. She wasn't considered a victim of

32:49

the poisoner at all. Needless to

32:52

say, Thomas had dropped himself right in

32:54

it, up to the neck. Why, what

32:56

was literally- I'm curious, what the fuck

32:58

was going through his head? Absolutely mind-boggling.

33:00

I don't know what he was thinking.

33:03

The police weren't the only ones to receive

33:05

a letter from Thomas. Several other

33:07

notes were sent out to various people.

33:10

Unlike the letter to the police, which

33:13

tried to shift the blame, the others

33:15

were primarily various kinds of blackmail, something

33:17

he loved to do. One

33:19

letter was sent to the son of

33:22

a wealthy businessman named Frederick Smith. Frederick

33:24

Smith received a letter threatening to blame him

33:27

for the murder of Ellen Donworth if he

33:29

didn't put a sign in the window of

33:31

his office that said, Mr. Fred

33:33

Smith wishes to see Mr. Bain, the

33:35

barrister at once. Now, what that

33:38

sign means, who knows, exactly

33:40

why Thomas wanted him to do this

33:42

is unknown, but it's likely it

33:44

was a precursor essentially to

33:46

demand money. See what he'd do. Yeah,

33:49

exactly. It's like, would he, if he'll do

33:51

that, then he'll do anything. Yeah, exactly. Smith,

33:54

not being guilty or an idiot, unlike Thomas,

33:56

went straight to the police and told them

33:59

about the letter. where he was demanding to

34:01

put up a sign. It's like so weird.

34:03

This story really doesn't go off the rails.

34:06

They soon realized it had likely been written

34:08

by the same man. Not only

34:10

did this link the letters, but also the

34:12

murders of Ellen Donworth, which

34:14

up until then hadn't been considered related

34:16

to the others. The

34:19

day after Smith had received the

34:21

letter, another letter was received by

34:23

a doctor named Joseph Harper. This

34:25

time, the writer simply

34:27

asked outright for good old

34:29

chiching cash money, telling Harper

34:31

that he had indisputable proof

34:34

that the doctor's son had

34:36

committed the murders of Marsh

34:38

and Shrivell, but kindly offered

34:40

to hand over the evidence for the

34:42

princely sum of 1,500 pounds, which

34:45

was a lot of money back then. Once

34:47

again, Harper, like Smith, was

34:50

like, my son had nothing to do with

34:52

this. I know he didn't have anything to do with this.

34:54

What the fuck are you doing? Who the heck wrote this?

34:56

I'm going to the cops. I

34:58

honestly don't know why he keeps trying to blackmail

35:00

people. Every time he's done that, and it's never

35:02

worked. Yeah, you're right. It literally has not worked

35:04

for him. Because every person he's handed to is

35:06

like, they're so innocent. And they're just like, I've

35:08

done nothing. I'm going to the police. I know

35:10

it's even like a little bit guilty that you

35:12

could kind of manipulate me. Yeah. It's

35:14

like, no, I just couldn't. I feel if you've gone to

35:17

blackmail something, you have to have something on them. Exactly. That's

35:19

the whole point of blackmail. That's it. This isn't even blackmailed.

35:21

This is just like stupid threatening people. A

35:24

couple of weeks after sending the letter, the police had

35:26

already ruled that two of the men Thomas had accused

35:28

of having something to do with the debts had

35:31

nothing to do with the debts. Instead, they

35:33

were very keen to speak with whoever had

35:35

sent the accusatory letter. And even worse for

35:38

Thomas, though at this point, they didn't know it

35:40

was him who had sent it, they now

35:42

considered the sender to be

35:44

the killer they'd been hunting. Around

35:46

the same time, Thomas found himself getting

35:49

real chummy with a policeman, a sergeant

35:51

in Patrick McIntyre. The two got quite

35:53

friendly. Show me enough that Thomas asked

35:55

him if he knew about the murders.

35:58

Not only did he raise the topic

36:00

with... this policeman, but he offered to

36:02

take the sergeant on a little tour

36:04

of all the various locations where the

36:06

victims had been killed. He's

36:08

taking a literal policeman to where he

36:10

killed all these people. And

36:12

Thomas spoke in such great detail about the crimes, Officer

36:16

McIntyre was left with little doubt, you're

36:18

clearly the fucking killer. Yeah. This is

36:20

crazy. You see over there, that's where

36:23

I, uh, not my, um, someone killed.

36:25

Yeah, right there, right there. Thomas

36:27

Cream soon found himself under constant surveillance

36:29

from Scotland Yard and it soon became

36:32

very obvious to them that Dr. Cream

36:34

had a bit of a thing for

36:36

visiting sex workers and spent a lot

36:38

of his free time frequenting known working

36:40

girls. You had numerous escapades. Escapades, as

36:43

we discussed before, hey hey hey. Almost

36:46

as soon as they started to look

36:48

into him, they received information on him

36:50

from their American counterparts that

36:52

included the prison sentence Thomas had served in

36:54

Illinois for killing Daniel Stott. So you can

36:57

almost picture a light bulb glowing over the

36:59

investigators heads as soon as they heard that

37:01

the man they were looking to for a

37:03

spate of poisonings with strike name had served

37:05

a prison term for killing somebody else with

37:08

that exact same poison. This

37:10

time, 2 plus 2 finally did equal

37:12

4 and Thomas landed in front of

37:14

a judge once again. This time, though

37:16

his money couldn't buy him out. He'd

37:19

had his one get out of jail free

37:21

card and he wasn't getting a second one.

37:23

The justice system moved a little more swiftly

37:25

than it does nowadays and Thomas was charged

37:27

with the murder of Matilda Clover on the

37:29

13th of July 1892. And

37:32

after trial lasted from the 17th to

37:34

the 21st of October, he was

37:36

found guilty and he was sentenced to

37:39

death by hanging. No more spending

37:41

the rest of his life in prison with

37:43

one day in solitary confinement. This

37:45

time it's going to be, well, whole

37:47

life confinement in a coffin. The

37:50

jury deliberated in Thomas's trial less than 12

37:52

minutes, but after the cavalcade of witnesses and

37:54

men of evidence, kind of shocking that it

37:56

took even 12 minutes, they were probably two

37:58

minutes talking about it. another 10 minutes out of the cup

38:00

of tea. The witnesses against him

38:03

included Dr. William Henry Broadbent, whom

38:05

Thomas had tried his patented Blame and

38:07

Bribe for my crime trick on, and

38:10

Emma Vell, the landlady to the two

38:12

young sex workers Thomas had killed with

38:14

Guinness. In addition to several

38:17

other pharmacists, their assistants, all who

38:19

testified that they had supplied the

38:21

accused doctor with various items including

38:23

strychnine and empty capsules which

38:25

could be used to disguise the taste

38:27

of the medications being given. One

38:30

of the witnesses, John Wilson McCullough, was

38:32

a travelling salesman and had met Cream

38:34

in Canada. He travelled to London specifically

38:36

for the trial and he testified that

38:38

the doctor had shown him a vial

38:40

of what he said was poison that

38:42

he, quote, gave to the girls to

38:44

get them out of the family way.

38:46

At the same time he showed the

38:48

salesman a fake beard and

38:50

went asked this... I

38:53

can't get over this guy. I know, his fake beard. This

38:56

guy must have hated him as well. Come all the way

38:58

from Canada. Yeah, yeah. Just a big trip. Right, back

39:00

in the day, back in like 1800 whatever, yeah. That

39:02

would have taken pretty like weeks, weeks, weeks. Yeah, yeah.

39:05

The whole time I was like, fuck this guy, I'm

39:07

gonna get him. So, less than

39:09

a month after he'd been convicted and

39:11

sentenced, Thomas Cream was hanged November

39:14

16th, 1892 at

39:17

Newgate Prison. However, the

39:19

story is not over yet my friends. Even

39:21

Thomas's last words managed to make a

39:23

bit of a stir and are still

39:26

a cause for debate among historians and

39:28

ripperologists. A ripperologist

39:30

is exactly what it

39:32

says in the tin. Someone who studies Jack

39:35

the Ripper. You see Thomas

39:37

Cream when he was being

39:39

hung is a... or hanged? Whatever.

39:43

He was well hung. Yeah, yeah, he

39:45

was well hung being hanged. Thomas is

39:47

alleged to have said his final words

39:49

were, I am Jack.

39:51

Meaning he was Jack the Ripper.

39:53

He was saying as he was

39:55

being hanged that he was Jack

39:57

the Ripper. I'm Jack the Ripper.

40:00

So whether or not that was what

40:02

he actually said is unsure. As

40:16

it's agreed he did say something but

40:18

his words were muffled by the executioner's hood

40:20

covering his mouth at the time. If

40:23

he did actually say it and I

40:25

wouldn't put it past him, giving his

40:27

predilection for bullshitting, well it's pretty much

40:29

accepted by most that there's simply no

40:31

way Thomas Cream could have actually been

40:33

responsible for the Jack the Ripper killings

40:36

as a lot of them happened while he

40:38

was safely locked away in Illinois, all the

40:40

way in America for the Daniel Stott murder.

40:42

There really is no

40:44

shortage of theories and suspects put forward

40:47

by these ripperologists. There are

40:49

literally hundreds of suspects that they propose may

40:51

have been Jack the Ripper from simple

40:53

local residents all the way up to the Royal

40:56

Family. Actually that's a good one. The

40:58

interior of the Royal Family, that's

41:00

Prince Albert Victor, the son of King

41:02

Edward VII and the grandson of Queen

41:04

Victoria, known to the family as Eddie.

41:06

He committed the murders during fits

41:09

of insanity caused by an advanced case

41:11

of syphilis. I've heard that one. That's

41:13

a good one. It's a good favourite. It's a

41:15

good conspiracy. But yeah again, similar to Thomas

41:17

Cream, the Royal Records show that he wasn't

41:19

even in London at the time of the

41:22

murder. With the case

41:24

of Thomas Cream though, you mentioned even

41:26

though he wasn't in the country when

41:28

the murders took place, this hasn't stopped

41:30

some of these ripperologists doing some mental

41:33

gymnastics to make their story fit. I

41:35

love mental gymnastics. Hit me bro. So

41:38

the two good ones. The ripperologist, Donald

41:40

Bell, he proposed that Cream

41:42

had bribed officials and had been let

41:44

out of prison before his official release.

41:49

So he bribed his way out

41:51

of prison. Then

41:53

he crossed London, started killing people

41:55

as Jack the Ripper and then went

41:57

back to Chicago. Maybe

42:00

like they like cook the books the records and

42:02

like officially he was let out later,

42:05

but he actually got out earlier Mm-hmm. Okay. I

42:07

mean and then there was

42:09

also sir Edward Marshall Hall He speculated

42:11

that creams prison term had been served

42:13

by a look-alike in his

42:15

place, which is a a Yeah,

42:21

but it's good Entertaining

42:27

oh, that's great.

42:29

All right, so so that's

42:31

a good old no to both of them,

42:33

but it's fun Hmm, so dr.

42:36

Thomas cream was only tried for the killing of

42:38

Matilda in the end So just

42:40

how many victims dr. Thomas Neil cream

42:42

was really responsible for still debated and

42:44

will never be known exactly Maybe

42:47

a lot a lot more women in London back

42:49

in the day Apparently due to

42:51

any the lack of any kind of confession and

42:53

the people that as I said he targeted Records

42:56

are scarce even among the upper classes

42:59

back in that time. So for the poor

43:01

and working classes Nobody knows people

43:03

will be dying all the time even

43:05

suspicious. That's where investigators So,

43:08

you know back then the Bobby's would be

43:10

running around London sound

43:12

being Gavin eyes and whatnot and It's

43:15

pretty good English accident. I say we love you over

43:17

in London. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, man, but yeah at

43:19

the end of day, we don't know exactly how many

43:22

people he killed probably quite a few We

43:24

had 500 old tablets though. Yeah, exactly. Actually.

43:26

Yeah, what am I need left? Yeah That's

43:29

good. But like everything without Thomas

43:32

putting himself into the frame history might not have

43:34

known what happened to any of his victims It

43:36

was the letter to police that literally just like

43:38

they weren't even close to him And he just

43:40

opened the door shit in himself. He fully deserved

43:42

it. And that is the end of

43:45

that one Keith final words.

43:47

Um If you're gonna take the

43:49

Hippocratic though, don't be a hypocrite. Oh

43:51

very good. Well said my friend. Well said I

43:54

couldn't say it better myself Yeah.

43:57

All right. Well, so that's Thomas Thomas cream

43:59

intro character I like to think

44:01

he was Jack Draper even though we are 100% sure he wasn't

44:04

I'm gonna pretend he was. I like the theory. Like the

44:06

body doubled good. Yeah that's a good one. It sounds like

44:08

a real bad movie but I enjoy it. Yeah it's probably

44:10

like one of those things you know you watched a full

44:12

movie and then the owner who did it and you get

44:14

to the end like what? Yeah actually

44:16

this makes no sense. Yeah but I want

44:18

to watch it again. Alright

44:21

here listen folks thank you so much

44:23

for listening much appreciated please

44:25

check out the that chapter YouTube channel where

44:27

every Tuesday and Friday there's new videos and

44:29

a new episode of the

44:31

that chapter podcast every Monday. Alright

44:34

thank you so much for listening it means

44:36

a lot to me and Keith do you

44:38

want to say farewell to our dear listeners

44:40

who are having a good time day,

44:42

night, wherever, whatever they're doing I don't know what

44:44

you're doing. Listen there's one she tells her oh

44:46

I see Fred. People who want

44:48

to send in scary stories we'd love to do

44:50

an episode like a bonus episode where we read

44:52

out your scary stories. We can do it in

44:54

your attic. Oh yeah we should do it

44:56

in your attic. Yeah. We should do that. We should

45:00

definitely do that. Alright I know a few people have

45:02

sent them in to me already but

45:04

I think I might have lost some. No

45:07

I remember I was checking through my junk one day because

45:09

some of them I think got sent to my junk mail

45:11

for I have no idea why. And

45:14

I was like oh I should have remembered that. Then I

45:16

forgot to and then your junk mail automatically deletes this shit

45:18

after like a couple of days or a couple of weeks

45:20

so it might. So if you set me in one, go

45:23

to your set mail and please just send it

45:25

again. And also if you have any stories

45:28

spooky stories horror stories any

45:31

kind of story you'd like us to read out please

45:33

send it in. Yeah we'll do an episode. Yeah we'll do

45:35

an episode it'll be great. That'll be a nice little bonus

45:37

episode. So yeah here listen. Keith

45:40

you want to give them your patented foil.

45:42

There you go. You guys have been great. Thanks. I

45:53

know Keith is so funny when we're when we're in

45:55

when we're in Boston. Every time we'd go anywhere for

45:57

a beer ever. What do you want? Guinness. I

46:00

have to have a dragon's eye. I'm

46:02

going to have a donut. Yeah, I know the Guinness.

46:06

You can spread it out, you can look at the menu. Ah,

46:08

Guinness. Well I

46:10

know it's panic, because there's so much to choose from.

46:12

Of all the different beers. Yeah, because I always

46:14

try something I haven't tried before. Oh, that sounds

46:16

new and interesting. I'll be like half of

46:18

you reading it and they come over like, what do you want? Ah, Guinness! It's

46:23

what I know. Yeah, well there you go.