0:00

Treat yourself, you know what I mean? I think it's

0:02

important to treat yourself. Important to enjoy these little things.

0:04

So you enjoy that little sparkling fruit drink,

0:06

you know? Thanks man, appreciate it. Yeah, you're welcome. Oh,

0:09

by the way, have you heard of

0:11

the con woman from Connemara? The

0:14

con woman from Connemara? Yeah. No. It's

0:16

good. It's just a super, super quick

0:18

story. It just kind of came out recently. I thought it was

0:20

really, it was kind of funny. So there was

0:22

this, there was an American couple, Cindy and

0:24

Jerry Rabbit, who they owned a sweet

0:27

little holiday spot down in Connemara in

0:29

Ireland. And they randomly

0:31

met another American woman named Brenna Riley.

0:33

And they hit it off, swapping information,

0:35

becoming, you know, best buds. Right. Then

0:38

when the rabbits, they went back to Boston, but

0:40

they kept in touch with Brenna and they actually

0:42

ended up leasing their holiday hunter. Okay. Fast

0:45

forward a few months, and when the rabbits, when they

0:47

swung back to Ireland, they found their holiday home fucking

0:49

ruined. It was just wrecked. Made shite in the place.

0:51

Awkwardly, it was like it was dirty, things were smashed

0:54

everywhere, there was cat shit all over the place. So

0:56

it turns out Brenna's life story

0:58

was mostly fiction. Except

1:00

for the American part, she was American,

1:02

she was from Massachusetts. But the rabbits,

1:04

they ended up getting their legal squad

1:06

involved, and they took action, they reported

1:08

to the Residential Tenancies Board. And surprise,

1:10

surprise, it ain't the first time that

1:12

Brenna's pulled out a stunt like this, and

1:14

she actually owes it quite a bit of money. But as

1:17

they dug deeper, they actually found out that

1:19

she had a run-in with the FBI over

1:21

a decade ago as well. So she had

1:23

been impersonating an FBI agent, taking it so

1:25

far that she was telling neighbors that she

1:27

was in some sort of

1:29

supervisory capacity. Wow. To

1:31

the point where she actually hired two people to work

1:33

for her in the air

1:36

quotes, FBI. And she was even

1:38

planning on taking her new recruits over to Germany

1:40

on an official FBI work trip. That's,

1:43

wow, freaking cool. Yeah, but

1:45

she was found guilty in the federal court for

1:47

impersonating an FBI agent, which is like a federal

1:49

offence. And she was sentenced to like 30 days

1:51

in prison and four months house arrest or

1:53

something like that. But four years later is when she

1:55

arrived in Ireland and started conning her way around and

1:57

wrecking houses. And where is she now? The fuck no.

2:00

No one knows where she is. She's

2:02

still out there. What's her name? Brenda?

2:05

Brenna Riley. Brenna? Yeah, yeah. Brenna Riley. Alright,

2:07

if you're listening, Brenna, we're calling for you.

2:10

They actually done, it was in one of the

2:12

newspapers, but they did like a, an RT, I

2:14

think they did like a little documentary about it

2:17

as well. Very good. Great job. Alright, Brenna. Alright,

2:19

we'll shower on the pot. Yeah,

2:21

that'd be great. Yeah, yeah, hop on. Yeah, come on. We

2:23

know she's listening. Oh yeah, big fan. Exactly. Alright,

2:27

alright. So, hey you and welcome back to another

2:29

episode of the Dash Shout-Outer Podcast. Me here, oh

2:31

shit, actually I was actually gonna record something for

2:34

Instagram because I thought it'd be kind of funny.

2:36

Just wave. There we go, okay. That's great. So,

2:39

hey you and welcome. My name is Mike and,

2:41

well, welcome. That's two welcomes. I hope you do that.

2:44

I was thinking of saying. Welcome

2:46

back to your third... Welcome, welcome, welcome,

2:48

welcome. Yes, exactly. Something back to

2:50

another episode of the Dash Shout-Outer Podcast. I'm

2:52

joined once again by Dirty Keith over here.

2:55

What's up Keith? How are you? The

2:58

folks I don't want to know, they've been asking and

3:00

asking and were like, how is Keith? You want to

3:02

know? Status update? Oh, thanks guys. Yeah, I'm good. Yeah.

3:04

How are you? Watching a good movie slightly. I'm not

3:06

talking to you. I'm fucking to the... No. No, I'm

3:09

just going here. Okay. I want to know. Well,

3:11

I don't want to talk to you anymore. I asked you a

3:13

question and you blew it. Alright, that's good. Any

3:15

spooky tales? Not this time,

3:17

man. It's been quite a week. Yeah, it's been quite a week.

3:20

Yeah, no ghosts in course. Alright, well, okay, maybe next

3:22

time. Maybe next time. Maybe next time. Maybe next time.

3:25

You know, were a week closer to us recording, in fact,

3:27

when this comes out, we might even... We'll

3:29

be around. I'm trying to think of when this comes out. We'll be

3:31

around at the time. We will be... Pretty

3:33

soon after this episode comes out, we'll be

3:35

recording the episode. The filming episode in here

3:37

has someone first out. It'll be on

3:39

the Dash Shout-Outer Podcast, YouTube channel, dot com. Keep it

3:41

in the queue. Gotta be a good one.

3:43

Alright, well today, we also have another good one. It's gonna be

3:46

cold, actually. What? It's gonna be cold.

3:48

Yeah, oh yeah, it's pretty cold. Yeah, I was up in the

3:50

attic there. We're really late with putting away

3:52

our Christmas decorations. And finally got up in

3:54

the attic, and the attic is like, it's Baltic. Yeah. It's

3:56

cold. Is the Schlitter

3:58

still up there? The Hurley Bowl? I'm not touching

4:00

it. It's still there. Yeah, I'm not putting it wow I

4:03

feel it's one of like if I move it I

4:06

feel not mad don't start off a chain reaction. Yeah,

4:08

bad you don't touch it Yeah, that's so you can

4:10

see when you come over now. I'm looking forward to

4:12

it Yeah, but it's great, but bring a coat because

4:14

it's gone cold what if it's moved? Oh, we gone.

4:16

What I'll be good Yeah, or does like something else

4:18

like it like a catra's metarism The

4:23

whole team All

4:26

right, so today we're talking about

4:28

the case of Charles David Lawson

4:30

today's L1 takes us to Germantown

4:33

North Carolina a place as bad as rural

4:35

as it gets with a population under 800

4:37

people The majority of

4:40

them being farmers and other agricultural workers

4:43

for such a small community It's been around

4:45

for a very long time having been found

4:47

at the tail end of the 18th century

4:50

That history earns it the prestigious title

4:52

of being the oldest community in

4:54

Stokes County ding ding at the

4:56

double thing Congratulate

4:59

fucking leash guys well done guys you did

5:01

it now You don't need to be a

5:03

genius to work out that it's got its

5:05

name from the large number of Germanic Immigrants

5:07

coming to the area after serving in the

5:09

Revolutionary War though a lot of the Germans.

5:11

I believe were on the brother Didn't

5:15

go too well for that Hessians. Oh,

5:17

yeah, we are very stoked to be hidden I'm

5:20

nothing Sorry doesn't

5:22

take us Quite back that

5:24

far, but rather a couple of hundred years down

5:26

the line to the early 20th century The

5:30

nine persons strong Lawson family were

5:32

typical of the area a large

5:34

working-class farming family There was little

5:36

about them that drew really any

5:38

attention at all the Lawson's

5:41

were originally What was known as sharecroppers that

5:43

means they didn't own the land they found

5:45

but would rather you know? They give up

5:47

a portion of the crop to a landlord

5:49

in return for work in the land Only

5:52

in recent years they were able to

5:54

finally buy their own farm Located off

5:56

Brook Cove Road deep in the farmland

5:59

of the area And despite having a

6:01

large mortgage, there was still

6:03

quite an achievement for any family in

6:06

their position. Mmm, like these sharecroppers, they

6:08

were generally quite poor. Mmm. Sharecropping, they

6:10

kind of faded away in the 1940s

6:12

because of the Great Depression and more

6:15

firearms getting more mechanised, which is a good

6:17

thing because the practice, it really hurt tenants.

6:19

Mmm. Lots of them had to deal with

6:21

like crazy high interest rates and unpredictable harvests

6:24

and shady landlords who kept tenants' farm families

6:26

seriously in debt. Right. So for the Lawson

6:28

family to get out from underneath landlord and

6:30

buy their own land, it was a huge achievement.

6:32

Yeah, yeah, well, you know, that... Fair plate. Fair

6:35

plate. Yeah, exactly. A feed and a punch. The

6:38

Lawson family was made up of the

6:40

patriarch Charles David Lawson, his

6:42

wife, 37-year-old Fanny Lawson, and

6:44

their seven children. The

6:47

children were 17-year-old Marie,

6:49

16-year-old Arthur, 12-year-old Carrie

6:51

Lee, 7-year-old Maybel, 4-year-old

6:53

James, 2-year-old Raymond, and

6:56

3-month-old Mara Lau. The

6:58

large family were far from remarkable and tended

7:00

to keep to themselves. What little

7:03

was known about them was mostly from

7:05

rumour and seeing them run their errands

7:07

around town. Charles was said

7:09

to be quiet, polite, and a little

7:11

conservative. He was also said to be

7:13

a bit of a hooking bully around

7:16

the Lawson home, including being capable of

7:18

violences rubbed up the wrong way. He

7:20

only liked being rubbed up the right

7:22

way. Oi. It's basically every father

7:24

from this time period. Basically, he sounds like

7:26

a perfectly normal fucking 1920s guy. Beat

7:33

the shit out of the old wife and kids

7:35

working the farm. Pretty quiet and conservative, pretty drank

7:37

a lot. Have a good time. Yeah, living

7:39

his best life. Yeah, exactly. You know, good for

7:42

him, right? Guess what I say. Actually,

7:48

my wife had to ring up our

7:51

car insurance under my name. But

7:54

my wife had to ring up to change something on us.

7:56

But for her to change, they had to

7:58

get my permission. So... I had

8:01

to call up our insurance broker and

8:03

give them permission to speak to my wife. So

8:06

I texted my wife, like, you're a good caller, and I was

8:08

like, oh, we should go back to the old days. That was

8:10

great. She wasn't happy with that. Didn't

8:12

enjoy that one, huh? No, no, she didn't like

8:14

that joke at all. Yeah. You

8:17

know, I mean, we talked about how bad things

8:19

were for, like, women and minorities back in the

8:21

day and things have improved, societally, today, which is

8:23

great. But we never talked about how good things

8:25

used to be for the guys, and how, you

8:28

know, what we've lost. I

8:30

was like, where are you going with this? Ah,

8:32

don't worry, you know where I'm going with this either. It's

8:35

a hot take. Very

8:38

brave, you think? Probably is when I regret

8:40

it as soon as it came out of my mind. Now,

8:44

shortly before Christmas, 1929, things

8:47

looked like they were going well for the

8:49

Lawson's. They'd been able to acquire their own

8:52

farm and had welcomed their most recent child,

8:54

Mary Lou, just three months ago. Having

8:56

earlier lost a child to illness, their six-year-old son,

8:59

the noise of another baby in the house was a

9:01

welcome break from the grief. The

9:04

child mortality rate this time was still quite high. I

9:07

think for every thousand babies born in the 1900s,

9:09

about 20% of them didn't see through their fifth

9:11

birthday. Wow, that's wild. Very high. Yeah, that's creepy.

9:14

Still. Many in the community and family were

9:16

more than a little perplexed when, in the

9:19

runt of Christmas, Charles

9:21

announced to the family that he'd decided

9:23

they should have a family portrait done.

9:26

Now, this wasn't the cheap endeavor and the Lawson's

9:28

were less than after them, which is not exactly

9:30

the kind of thing you would expect them to

9:32

decide on a whim to get done. Now, by

9:34

the way, family portraits, it's

9:37

a picture, it's a photograph. It's not like a...

9:40

For some reason, when I was initially reading into this,

9:42

I assumed family portrait was like a painting. No, it's

9:44

not. It was an old-timey picture. Have you seen the

9:46

picture? Yeah. Very fucking

9:48

creepy. It is weird. It's really, really

9:50

disturbing. It's very strange. Yeah. Like,

9:53

just so for the folks at home, obviously you can't see

9:55

it. Google it. Or

9:57

let me just tell you that. Because it's like...

10:00

Paint us a picture, Mike. Right, so it's the

10:02

family. They're all there, they're standing, getting their picture

10:04

taken, kind of. They're all standing a little

10:06

bit awkwardly. But they're- it's in black and white, obviously,

10:08

and they're dressed in 1920s formal style. But

10:12

they all just look creepy. Ah,

10:15

I don't know, there's something real- like none of

10:17

them are smiling. They have those- the eye- it's

10:19

like something to do- I don't know if it's

10:21

in all pictures from like this time, or just

10:23

some, but their eyes look dead. Like they're kind

10:25

of glazed over. Their eyes are all really, really

10:27

pale. Like they've got like- you can only see

10:29

the faintest circles where their irises would be. So

10:32

it gives them this like, almost like

10:34

pure white eyes. They're not smiling. Some

10:37

of them aren't even looking at the cameras, they're looking off,

10:39

I'm guessing, as a photographer. The

10:41

kids are the only people who actually look normal. The four adults,

10:43

which is Charles' wife, and

10:46

then their two oldest children, all

10:49

look like they're dead. Yeah. I wonder

10:51

if it's got something to do with like the long exposure

10:53

rate? Mmm. Which way the rise is a weird- I think

10:55

even- But even like the layer or where they were standing

10:57

within the photo, where their position in the photo was a

10:59

little strange. Because on the end, so there

11:02

was two rows, and then the back row, it was-

11:04

Earth around the left, then it was- Um-

11:07

Marie, the old daughter. Then it was Marie, and

11:09

then it was Charles, and then it was Fanny.

11:11

Yeah, holding the baby. Yeah, like why wouldn't you

11:13

have the- the mother and father in the

11:15

middle? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, yeah. In fact, it's kind

11:18

of- it's going like down and- like it's-

11:20

yeah, it's weird. It's just a very freaky

11:23

picture, which kind of adds another element to

11:25

this kind of already pretty creepy case. Yeah.

11:27

The most amazing thing is how they got all their kids to

11:30

sit still for so long. Yeah, right. That's it, yeah. Like we-

11:32

I said like the exposure rate, I think it could take up

11:34

like several minutes. Where they had to sit

11:36

there, where- like we tried to take my daughter's

11:39

passport photo at your day. 20 minutes. Still

11:41

didn't get it. Yeah. Wow. Nightmare. Jesus, okay. Yeah.

11:43

So it's fairly- well hey listen, back then, it

11:45

was A's, you know. Listen, you can get back

11:47

in behind, yeah. Yeah. No problem. Not a bad

11:49

item. So

11:51

Not only was it, you know, this very

11:53

expensive to get done, but there's also a

11:55

whole bunch of other expenses thrown in. Each

11:57

of the family members would require new clothes.

12:00

You through the boys or girls. Huge

12:02

Every for anyone, let alone a farming

12:04

family barely scraping by. Nevertheless,

12:06

Charles press on with this plan and

12:08

had to family missed out and some

12:10

far new treads and took them to

12:12

pose for the portraits. The very as

12:14

you said creepy portion. The. Whole

12:16

thing though a begun apparently unnecessary

12:19

financial obligations was done with and

12:21

has not been for what came

12:23

next. What has been a completely

12:25

unremarkable events. On Christmas Day,

12:27

nineteen Twenty Nine, Charles gave his

12:29

eldest son sixteen year old actor

12:31

permission to go with a friend

12:33

into nearby Walnut Coasts to buy

12:36

ammunition for some Christmas Day rabbit

12:38

hunting. Something. That was far

12:40

from uncommon. I had become a tradition

12:42

for many rural families around Christmas time.

12:45

This. Was also one of the reasons

12:47

given as to why no one was

12:49

alerted by the abundance of gunshots coming

12:51

from the loss and farm. It.

12:53

Was perfectly normal the here shots ringing out

12:56

on most days and be rural county but

12:58

especially on Christmas morning. Must. Some

13:00

speculated that Charles may have favorite Archer

13:02

and sent him away to spare him

13:04

at that morning. The truth is, the

13:06

decision was a likely a lot more

13:08

cold and a pragmatic. Sixteen.

13:11

Year old actor had grown bigger and stronger for

13:13

at nineteen twenty nine and Charles Beards are for

13:15

I feel to step in and put a stop

13:17

to his murderous intentions. Feel that the portrait archers

13:19

is good. couple of inches taller and bigger it

13:21

and his dad looks at home because solid F

13:23

L A O w urge to look the photo

13:25

by look for hims tix you them yeah yeah

13:28

I mean it's I even does look a person's

13:30

I mean I know people look older back Monday

13:32

that they do now he but he looks like

13:34

you to be twenty five that he built his

13:36

Vi me worker from. but yeah I think it

13:38

was looked older Mckinsey and yeah you easily could

13:40

have taken. Is that what looks so sorry?

13:42

Yeah I It's alleged that Are For had

13:45

already begun to intervene when his father had

13:47

xabi com physical with his sisters and and

13:49

butter siblings like those terrorists and abusers trials

13:51

and like anyone standing up to them especially

13:54

when they were able to physically backed themselves

13:56

in a confrontation. So by sending our for

13:58

off the store he sighs. That any

14:00

potential for Archer to rest away

14:02

the weapon and put an early

14:04

end to the carnage. The.

14:07

First victims of the Christmas Day

14:09

rampage was seven year old May

14:11

Bell and twelve year old Carry

14:13

Only Poses whom who'd been shut

14:15

down at said the barn with

14:17

the families shotgun. Charles.

14:19

Then proceeded to the house loading

14:21

to fresh characterises into the shotgun

14:24

as he was. Once. There

14:26

he met funny sitting on the porch. Raise.

14:28

The gun and at close range pulled

14:31

the trigger again. Killing. His

14:33

wife instantly. And. Through the

14:35

house Charles found his eldest daughter, seventeen

14:37

year old Murray who was rushing around

14:39

the kitchen, panicking and looking for place

14:42

to hide after seeing her mother shot

14:44

dead. But. She was to weights. And.

14:46

Shells fired another shot. Striking.

14:48

And killing Murray who had been

14:50

happily baking looking for Christmas lunch

14:52

with her siblings. Somehow.

14:55

Things then get even darker. Rather,

14:57

Than reloading the shotgun and quickly

15:00

dispatching the remaining three youngest children.

15:02

For some unknown reason Charles shows

15:05

to prolong their debts. First.

15:07

He bludgeoned four year old James and two year

15:09

old Raymond to death with the butt of his

15:12

gun. Then he moved into

15:14

his and Fannies bedroom where three month

15:16

old Mary Lou was sleeping peacefully in

15:18

her crib, completely unaware of the utter

15:21

chaos erupting just meters away. Charles

15:23

and murdered the and sent in the same

15:25

way as is two youngest son's. How.

15:28

Anyone could commit such cold and violent

15:30

act is unfathomable, let alone against his

15:33

three month old daughter. I

15:35

do like one of the worst family in

15:37

other cases of read this year. violence and

15:39

brutality. The whole thing is. Certain.

15:42

That. Afternoon rousers arrived at the loss

15:45

in the family Sam expecting to love.

15:47

the family, greet them and spend a

15:49

couple of hours enjoying some Christmas cheer.

15:51

Instead. They were met by

15:53

the site or Phonies corpse laid

15:55

out almost formerly on the porch

15:57

where she had died. only

16:00

her body had been moved. Her body had

16:03

now been positioned to be laying on her

16:05

back, arms folded across her

16:07

chest with a pillow under

16:10

her head. Of course, they

16:12

immediately sent for help and at the time

16:14

no one knew what had happened. Inside

16:17

the house, Marie, James, Raymond and

16:19

little Mary Lou were all found

16:21

in the same manner as their

16:23

mother, laid outstretched with arms folded

16:25

and pillows placed gently under their

16:27

heads. Out near the

16:30

barn, the two girls were found in

16:32

the same position, though instead of pillows,

16:34

the girls had rocks placed under their

16:37

necks, propping them up. The whole

16:39

scene was just pure nightmare fuel. Fanny

16:41

and the six children were dead, murdered.

16:44

Arthur, Charles and the family's dogs,

16:46

Sam and Queen, were missing. Had

16:49

they done this together and fled, that's what

16:51

people who arrived thought. Had one kidnapped the

16:53

other or had some drifter come true and

16:55

killed everyone and the bodies of Charles and

16:57

Arthur were yet to be discovered, maybe

16:59

the answers would come soon

17:02

along with the day's final

17:04

victim. The whole scene is

17:06

like textbook family and all

17:08

that stuff from perpetrators with

17:10

mental illness or disorders like depression,

17:12

paranoia, schizophrenia and personality disorders. The

17:14

killer would usually see themselves as

17:17

a failure, which combined with serious

17:19

money or social issues, thinks the

17:21

family can't go on without them.

17:23

So the killings are like an

17:25

extended suicide or mercy acts. However,

17:28

even though the actual murders can

17:30

be really violent, the person treats bodies with

17:32

a lot of care, often placing them in

17:34

a really loving way, which kind

17:36

of seems to be the case here. Yeah. Wow. That's interesting.

17:39

Within just a couple of hours of

17:41

the murders, several representatives from various authorities,

17:43

including the sheriff and deputies, as well

17:45

as several locals who come for a

17:47

gander, were gathered at the Lawson farm

17:49

when suddenly there was a fifth and

17:52

final crack of a gunshot that shook a

17:54

black cloud of birds from the trees deep

17:57

in the woods and drove a

17:59

collective shutter. where true everyone gathered. Instinctively

18:02

everyone there looked to the north and

18:04

to the direction of the blast. Officials

18:07

cautiously headed off in the direction of

18:10

the noise, hoping not to find what

18:12

they expected. Beyond

18:15

the treeline they found a strange and

18:17

gruesome sight. Charles

18:19

was laid dead, clearly having taken his own

18:21

life with the same weapon he'd used to

18:24

wipe out his family. The

18:26

two dogs were sitting there watching over the body,

18:29

groupily. There was a trail of footprints.

18:31

See, as expected, there was a single

18:33

trail of prints leading into the woods,

18:36

those belonging to Charles of course. But

18:38

it seemed that once he'd gotten as deep into the

18:40

woods as he wanted to, Charles had

18:43

apparently walked in a circle around

18:45

the same tree, possibly for hours,

18:48

before finally committing to one

18:50

last act of violence. At

18:53

the time of his death, Charles had nothing on

18:55

his body except two slips of paper, receipts, and

18:57

story, that each had three

19:00

words scrawled on them. One

19:02

said, trouble can cause, and

19:04

the other said, nobody to blame.

19:07

Exactly what the cryptid notes were supposed to

19:10

mean, flitted away with Charlie's life. It's fairly

19:12

certain that the notes were only partially completed,

19:14

and they certainly go some way to showing

19:16

what Charlie's thoughts were, and they were clearly

19:19

erratic and he wasn't thinking coherently when he

19:21

committed the crime. Whether or

19:23

not he was completely delusional and suffering a

19:25

major break from reality is unknown.

19:28

Maybe he was suffering from writer's block. Maybe

19:30

he was so frustrated. How do I finish a

19:32

sentence? Yeah, alright, time to kill my

19:34

family. There

19:36

were a number of red flags as well on

19:39

the run-up to the murders that would suggest that

19:41

he was having some sort of mental breakdown or

19:43

manic episode. So Charlie, he'd get up in

19:45

the middle of the night, dropping to his hands and

19:47

knees for some intense praying. His wife mentioned that she'd wake

19:49

up to the sound of his prayers, and when she asked

19:52

him if everything was okay, he wouldn't say anything, he

19:54

wouldn't spill the beans. He

19:56

was mentioned that there was also loud, heated arguments

19:58

between Charlie and Fanny as quote-unquote. Miss

20:00

Drew near a few months for the murder.

20:02

Also, Charlie's broader attempted chocolate i'm on the

20:04

street, sports charges, words diverts all over the

20:06

place he spoken is a very confusing way

20:08

and eventually just walked away in frustration. So

20:10

it seems there was something not right gone

20:13

on his head. Yeah further. the as I'm

20:15

going to broke. The. Autopsies of

20:17

the seven victims plus charlie took

20:19

place that Christmas evening. The

20:21

eight bodies actually had removed from the

20:23

funeral home in Walnut Cove to Madison's

20:26

Yelstin Funeral Parlor as their first. This

20:28

nation was found to be far too

20:30

small and under resourced to handle such

20:32

a large influx of bodies in one

20:34

go to autopsy and and Bolland a

20:36

buddy's is obviously no small task let

20:38

alone all in one evening. Stokes.

20:41

County Coroner Doctor Cj health the

20:43

back assisted by Doctor Spots Would

20:45

Taylor who was the brother of

20:47

those County Sheriff John Taylor confirmed

20:49

what the scene and observed says

20:51

it will evidence had suggested the

20:54

official causes of death. Had. The

20:56

Tree elder children and their mother. She

20:58

asked that for younger children bludgeoned to

21:00

death. He also made

21:02

several interesting observations vet Charles's

21:04

brain, noting that it was

21:06

considerably smaller and more under

21:08

developed than expected. And a

21:11

man of his age. Dr.

21:13

Taylor eventually took Charles's brain back to

21:15

Johns Hopkins where he usually work is

21:17

actually only been home is so scanning.

21:20

Visiting his brother and family for Christmas

21:22

was back at Johns Hopkins with the

21:24

proper facilities use able to put Charles's

21:26

brain three more thorough examination. Sadly,

21:29

though of these days rains than loss which

21:31

is a real same for criminal science as

21:33

advances in the field would make a modern

21:35

city incredibly interesting. How did his brain

21:37

death us do this has happened like as

21:40

a Jfk rain like missing or something. carelessness

21:42

gags. I opened a lawsuit against a face

21:44

it as on double check that was joking

21:46

around here than it is missing by which

21:49

it isn't his brain is missing. So here's

21:51

an interesting Davis and the bodies of the

21:53

loss of Ah Me. They were initially taken

21:56

to Night Funeral Home in Madison and North

21:58

Carolina. The reason for this was. They bleed

22:00

the place to have an elevator and to quite

22:02

a few bodies that needed or there is to

22:04

your partner. Tb. Nice he would the

22:06

owner of the funeral home and took care

22:08

of dating and bombing dressing up preparing each

22:10

member of the losses on the for the

22:12

burial in Nineteen twenty three to funeral homes

22:14

they operate as bit different than to do

22:16

these days. There were small offices with in

22:18

a bombing room on a casket display or

22:20

i'm so humans would bodies weren't held at

22:22

funeral home back them up the body was

22:24

prepared. Family member woods has a the casket

22:26

display room did choose once that the body

22:28

would return home for the viewing and in

22:30

would take place there or at the church

22:32

or out a cemetery. However the loss in

22:35

case pose. Quite a challenge that was

22:37

a buddy's seven casket and with limited space

22:39

at the last family on the bodies were

22:41

taken to like you mentioned Yeltsin Funeral for

22:43

viewing. The bodies were viewed as yells next

22:45

day and guess he if you stand they

22:48

were Night funeral home used to be. You'll

22:50

spot the building that was once the Elton

22:52

John hopes of the roof there were quite

22:54

close to get there was also aired or

22:56

the Tv series Twenty Eight Days Haunted and

22:59

a as He Didn't episode in Night Funeral

23:01

Parlor where the last in Zombie was bombed.

23:03

The building is now owned by a dry.

23:05

Goods and County Store with the upstairs converted

23:07

into like museum that traces the history of

23:10

the building and the town and museum also

23:12

delves into the last and murders in the

23:14

building history as if you'll pardon so that

23:16

and visitors on ploys they have reported let's

23:18

me seeing a young girl wearing white dress

23:21

roaming around the believe. The. Owner recalls

23:23

one time one kids it has three

23:25

years go grabbed his dad's army said

23:27

i'm not going up there to the

23:29

little girl standing oh yes reporter the

23:31

odor own explain activity like pictures and

23:33

objects in the building to have moved

23:35

around but it was an explanation. That's

23:38

creepy. Kids are creepy is already Yeah I've

23:41

heard a story for like kids can like

23:43

see things that not a new can see

23:45

Ah Ravenwood amount on me a year ago

23:47

a disease that man had their in and

23:50

or I'll say there's no be at the

23:52

gingerbread of women to put the time you

23:54

thomas it was a seen the it was

23:56

a is it was a man a black

23:59

yeah to read. Uber didn't

24:01

see any wonder and then it was.

24:03

Oh that. It turns out that the

24:05

diversity of the fire and billie rice.

24:07

yeah it's in the basement of their

24:09

building. yeah and someone died or somewhere

24:11

like someone of startups. Yeah yeah that's

24:13

that's a different time yet over doesn't

24:15

see every stories. but yeah, that's freak

24:17

back at me. As you're young

24:19

daughter of are you saving Creepy

24:21

as Chris if is not something

24:23

to for the. I've

24:27

been particular degrees am not like would

24:29

seem so fun. Booth at emphasis says

24:31

weird things all the time like sheep

24:33

I got a thing I saw Thelma

24:35

Thorpe for shows and her that offer

24:37

Barbies put average and weird serial killer

24:39

the for that yes she does need

24:41

to say sorry previous year as utility

24:44

lose like since they lose every halloween

24:46

some who's is like to lose the

24:48

became. From his yeah anyway so yes

24:50

thinks his legs he is very hot

24:52

even when fully fairly detailed. like to

24:54

strange they did you see the larry's

24:56

as like terrified because I mean I

24:58

remember seeing as the original Nineteen Nineties

25:00

Tim Curry it's Anna like scarred me

25:02

for like my gates is not Islam

25:05

right give or voluptuous, unfair or later

25:07

they'll read a Horse of Young so

25:09

a debate that. Ah self.

25:11

on the Twenty Seventh of December.

25:13

Nineteen, Twenty seven. Only two days

25:15

after the crime, the entire family

25:17

nice arthur of course were laid

25:19

to rest in a large grace,

25:21

all sharing a single headstone at

25:23

Browder Cemetery just said side of

25:26

Germantown. Seven. Coffins were lowered

25:28

into the ground, with each of the

25:30

elders Hilton and Charles having their own

25:32

task. It's but funny. Andy, Infants Freeman

25:34

told Mary Lou. They. Were buried

25:36

together Mary Lou securely swaddled in

25:38

the arms of her mother. says.

25:41

The weird A he's buried with yeah,

25:43

an aston. Depressingly a wasn't too

25:45

long as it of funerals that the

25:47

Lawson family home was busy were I

25:49

can sniff out the has. Taken on a

25:52

whole new allies on purpose, As a macaw

25:54

of attraction. The. Idea was

25:56

the brainchild of Charles's rather,

25:58

Marion Lawson. Now. If you think

26:00

that's just maybe a wee bit fucked up,

26:03

well, his brother also thought it would be

26:05

a crackin' good idea to not bother cleaning

26:07

up the bloodstains in the house. Including the

26:09

bloodstains left behind by the young children who

26:12

were rudely murdered. Leaving the

26:14

house in its disheveled state as

26:16

a way to add quote-unquote, authenticity.

26:19

Hey, listen, there's a brain still on the

26:21

floor, it doesn't get much more authentic than

26:23

that, my friend. It's a vibe.

26:25

Yeah, definitely a vibe. In his events

26:27

though, he claimed that it was necessary to

26:29

open up the house to visitors in

26:31

order to help the last surviving lost and

26:34

child's, young Arthur. He had a mortgage to

26:36

pay off now that he was the man

26:38

of the house. A touch of

26:40

extra sadness is that the Christmas cake that

26:42

17-year-old Marie had spent the early morning baking

26:44

for the family, that none of them would

26:47

go on to taste, was still sitting out

26:49

on the kitchen table. Do you

26:51

know what visitors to the house actually started picking out

26:53

the raisins on the cake to take as souvenirs? Oh

26:56

my god, that is grim. Isn't this what they have?

26:58

They have to cover the cake with a glass dish,

27:00

which actually helped preserve the cake for like years to

27:03

come. Oh wow. Also maybe use the copies and like

27:05

brandy and rum in the cake to maybe help you

27:07

more than that. So that's weird. It's just taking, it's

27:09

for like blood on the fucking raisins. I know, yeah,

27:11

just take them raisins and put them in your pocket.

27:14

What a great thing to do. Yeah, none on the

27:16

layer. And a lot of people visited

27:18

the house, apparently it was a real hit. Another

27:21

interesting local legend that has grown

27:23

up around the Lawson house. One of

27:25

the many visitors was none other than

27:27

infamous bank robber and gangster John Dillinger.

27:30

Dillinger, having only very recently

27:32

escaped the Kalani hands of the

27:34

Larr, was so intrigued by what

27:36

he'd read about Charlie Lawson's crimes,

27:39

that he made a beeline for the scene, despite

27:41

him being one of the most wanted men

27:43

in the country. Maybe he himself took a

27:45

little raisins ago. Mmm, it's just showing up

27:47

with a fake beard and glasses. Yeah, exactly.

27:50

Who is this Dillinger? Yeah. Now,

27:53

the great mystery around the Lawson

27:56

family massacre isn't the usual whodunit.

27:58

The question is why? in

28:00

the hell did Charles Lawson suddenly decided

28:02

to kill not only himself

28:05

but his entire family. And

28:07

then put their bodies lay them out like

28:09

with pillows under their heads. Now

28:11

there are two leading theories behind why Charles

28:14

did what he did. The

28:16

first and leading contemporary theory was that

28:18

Charlie had suffered some kind of head

28:20

injury in the weeks prior to the

28:22

crime. Of course at the

28:24

time head injuries and mental illness were far

28:26

from the well studied fields that they are

28:28

today. It's widely thought that Charles

28:30

had recently taken a bunk to the noggin

28:33

and subsequently gained a much shorter fuse

28:35

than he had previously displayed and even

28:37

then the fuse was never particularly long.

28:41

There are conflicting reports here as I've been

28:43

unable to find anyone at the time confirming

28:45

that Charles suffered such an injury but if

28:47

he did there's certainly no official medical record

28:49

of it but then again that's not unlikely

28:52

or unusual given the times. Apparently

28:54

himself and her relax. He

28:56

did? That's what I've read.

28:58

Really? And someone came up with a hearing, I don't know

29:00

how he did it but that'll do it.

29:03

Yeah that'll probably, okay there we go. We can

29:05

take it as possible that he obviously, on the

29:08

carpet? He couldn't on the carpet. Hey

29:10

guys, is someone on the head here? Oh my god. Again,

29:14

I haven't, because I've read through a couple of things, a

29:17

lot of them say what you

29:19

say where it's conflicting but then the boss seems to

29:21

report that some family members or neighbours have mentioned that

29:23

he managed himself and their head with an axe. So

29:25

I don't know how he did it, maybe he bounced back. Alright,

29:29

well there you go. Charlie took

29:31

a blow to the head with an axe and

29:33

if he did it's entirely possible that it could

29:35

at least have contributed to his fatal actions. It's

29:38

medically accurate to say that TBI

29:41

or traumatic brain injuries can often

29:43

lead to people displaying quite drastic

29:45

personality changes. It's also possible for

29:48

victims of brain injuries to show

29:50

diminished control of their emotions or

29:53

even to have extreme emotional responses

29:55

that are disproportionate to the triggers or

29:58

their circumstances. So many

30:00

serial killers associated with having brain injuries at

30:02

some point in their life. Whereas

30:04

a lot of these cases, they usually stem from

30:07

a childhood injury to when their brain is still

30:09

forming. It's interesting that this could

30:11

have been from a brain injury later in life. Yeah,

30:13

yeah, yeah. His brain was smaller. I don't know. He

30:15

chopped off part of his brain. I don't know. But

30:19

yeah, it took an axe to the dome, man. One

30:23

that always struck with me was the case

30:25

of a Cosmo DiNardo. He was a guy,

30:28

a young fella, in Fox County, Pennsylvania. He

30:30

murdered four people. And he

30:32

was a kid, kind of a rich kid growing up. He

30:34

was always kind of fine and dandy. And then one day

30:36

he grew up in the middle

30:38

of nowhere, and he was on his

30:40

ATVs like one day. And it spun

30:42

around, and he fucking cracked his

30:44

head off a rock, essentially. And he was trapped

30:46

under it for a time, I believe. It's been

30:48

a while since it covered the case. But ever

30:50

since then, he was never right. And then he

30:52

later went on to murder like four people. And

30:56

that's like, it doesn't often, I watched

30:58

a couple of documentaries about that case, and none of

31:00

them mentioned brain injury. When I was covering it, I

31:02

made sure to mention it, because it was like, that

31:04

seems likely why he ended up killing people. I mean,

31:06

the most famous example of this is probably another family

31:09

annihilator, the WWE wrestler Chris Benoit. Benoit

31:12

was by all accounts a nice quiet

31:14

man, despite being very intense in the

31:16

ring and taking his profession very seriously.

31:20

He was known to be a backstage enforcer and

31:22

a bit of a bully at times, but when

31:24

news spread through the production team, and Benoit's fellow

31:26

wrestlers that he hadn't shown up to a live

31:28

show, and even his closest friends who he'd worked

31:30

with in the industry couldn't get a hold of

31:33

them, no one could have imagined the reality of

31:35

what had happened. So, after

31:37

responding to a welfare check

31:39

from his employers at the

31:41

WWE, police found Chris Benoit

31:43

dead, having committed suicide aged

31:45

just 40 years old. A

31:49

horrific tragedy no doubt, and if it ended

31:51

there, Benoit would have been eulogized as a

31:53

great of the industry, as indeed he was.

31:56

The WWE, well, WWF at the time, even aired a series of movies, and

31:58

the show was a very special episode of the WWE, special episode

32:00

of their weekly show that was dedicated

32:03

to Chris Benoit. Womp womp,

32:05

only then news broke of what

32:07

had actually happened. Benoit's last

32:09

act before taking his own life was

32:12

to destroy his legacy by murdering

32:14

his wife, 43 year

32:16

old Nancy and their seven year old

32:18

son Daniel. No one could

32:20

believe what had happened and up to this

32:22

day Benoit's name is still kind of thought

32:24

of as pretty shit. Prior

32:27

to the incident he had been a hero and now

32:29

he went from hero to zero. In

32:31

the search for answers Benoit's brain was studied

32:33

by scientists looking into the effects of

32:35

trauma on the brain. The

32:38

thinking of many years was that you know

32:40

brain bruising or concussions was very much some

32:42

new recovered from and didn't have any lasting

32:44

damage. It's only true the study

32:46

of deceased victims off TBI that we now

32:48

understand such injuries much better. Benoit's

32:50

brain was said to resemble that of

32:52

an 80 year old Alzheimer's patient. There's

32:54

plenty of examples of this. 2011 David

32:56

Doersen two times Super Bowl champion with

32:59

the Chicago Bears and New York Giants

33:01

he took his own life after years

33:03

of struggling with mental illness depression

33:05

and he choose to shoot himself in

33:08

the chest because he wanted to leave

33:10

his brain behind for science to understand

33:12

the effect of concussions TBI

33:16

essentially all that stuff and

33:18

so Charles lost and working on a farm

33:21

as he said he had maybe he had suffered repeated injured

33:24

head injuries president the entire life his brain and maybe never

33:26

developed properly because it was supposed to be a lot smaller

33:28

and maybe the last final like when

33:30

he hit himself in the head with an axe that

33:32

was like distraught that broke the chemist back and caused

33:35

him to kill everybody and himself and as

33:37

you said maybe it was like that group

33:39

suicide or whatever. Yeah it's interesting because I

33:41

know with those two cases you're mentioning I

33:43

think that's like repeated consistent trauma to his

33:45

brain having like small injuries constantly over over

33:47

time. I wonder if with Charles Lawson it

33:49

was like that as he said where he

33:51

had injuries or it was just that one

33:53

significant impact injury to the head. I wonder

33:56

if there's a difference I wonder if like the

33:58

brains would look the same with having like Consistent injuries over

34:00

time and then also like having like

34:02

one massive brain injury if the end results of the

34:05

brain is the same or not I'm

34:07

not I'm not not a brain surgeon. Hey, you know if

34:09

you're listening and you know, yeah Hey,

34:11

listen your brain surgeons listen to this podcast

34:18

Now another About

34:22

what really happens and This

34:24

line of investigation originated or at least

34:27

become publicly known with the release of

34:29

a book about the loss and family slaughter And

34:32

it's a very incestuous theory about what

34:34

really happened in their book 1990 book

34:37

white Christmas bloody Christmas Terrible

34:41

name for a book by the way white Christmas

34:43

bloody Christmas One F

34:45

you can do better by Emma

34:47

Bruce Jones and Trudy J Smith

34:49

the authors first suggested that small

34:51

town rumors about Charles and Marie

34:53

eldest daughter 17 had

34:56

been having a secret relationship and

34:59

Those rumors existed in Germantown going back

35:01

to the time of the murders The

35:03

book had the claims attributed to the

35:05

trusty old anonymous source wink wink But

35:07

literally less than 24 hours

35:09

before the book was usually published

35:11

the authors Claimed to have received

35:14

a phone call from a descendant

35:16

of the executed family when Stella

35:18

Lawson Stella had already

35:20

been interviewed for the book and

35:22

hadn't previously mentioned the rumors of

35:24

incest and abuse But Stella revealed

35:26

in this new conversation that she

35:28

had once overheard a whispered discussion

35:30

between her mother Jetty her aunt's

35:33

and in-laws during the wake following

35:35

the family's funeral. Wow What

35:37

are the odds areas before the book is

35:39

going to go in publications? Calls

35:42

in randomly. Hey, we already spoke

35:44

but guess what? I just remembered

35:46

I was lucky So

35:51

apparently Stella Apparently

35:56

Stella told the authors that the family

35:58

had supposedly been shouting in about concerns

36:00

about abuse between the father and daughter, and they've

36:02

been chatting about these concerns as if it was

36:04

fact and not speculation. Unfortunately, Jettie died in 1928,

36:07

just a year after the murders. So

36:11

of course Stella was a young child at the

36:13

time and could easily have misheard or misinterpreted what

36:15

was being discussed. I mean, what are the fucking

36:18

odds of that happen? Errors before the book is

36:20

published? Oh hey! This random speculation,

36:22

I'm here to tell you what happened. And

36:24

guess what? If the book was published in

36:26

1990, and

36:29

her mother died in 1928, it's

36:32

like, how old would she have been when she

36:34

heard these rumours at the funeral? Oh yeah, she

36:36

would have been young. Yeah, like really. A child,

36:39

yeah. She was a child. Yeah, she's probably like

36:41

five, I boast. If you're a child, these sort

36:43

of rumours aren't being told directly to you. She

36:45

would have overheard it from someone. She would have

36:47

overheard it, but who remembers conversations from when you're

36:49

five years old? No, I don't remember. Yeah, I

36:51

don't remember anything. But the same

36:53

authors appear to favour this theory, um,

36:55

though, and put all their stock in

36:57

it when they published a follow-up book,

36:59

The Meaning of Our Tears, in

37:01

2006. Better title. This

37:04

time they claimed they'd uncovered

37:06

more contemporary witnesses to the

37:08

rumours. The book alleges that

37:10

Marie's best friend, Ella Mae, had

37:12

shared with several others that Marie

37:15

had told her in confidence that

37:17

she'd fallen pregnant, and the baby

37:19

was the result of her father's

37:21

abuse, and even worse, her mother

37:23

was aware of the situation. Though

37:25

many believe the stories of a scandalous

37:27

relationship between the two, who really knows,

37:29

but it's thought to be a theory

37:32

as to why Charles decided to murder

37:34

everyone. After all, it's hard to

37:36

look past the fact that an in-depth

37:38

post-mortem investigation was indeed performed,

37:40

and that would have been almost

37:42

comical negligence or incompetence for the

37:44

well-qualified doctors to not have noticed

37:47

that one of their subjects had a baby. On

37:49

the other hand, it's entirely reasonable to speculate that

37:51

Charles took a bump on the head and didn't

37:54

seek medical help. I think that's probably a more

37:56

likely theory. As we said,

37:58

he was a farmer growing up. probably would

38:00

have had a bruise and knocks almost every other

38:02

day. Yeah, definitely do. I'm leaning towards Charles, knocking

38:04

himself in the head, making him go as mad

38:07

as a bag of spiders. But

38:09

I also think this. The portrait.

38:11

The family portrait. What's with the portrait?

38:14

The haunting family portrait that was

38:16

taken right before the murder. Very

38:19

creepy picture. What was the reason behind it? Why

38:21

have an expensive portrait done if he was planning

38:23

on killing his entire family? If indeed it was

38:25

spent. Maybe it was spread at a moment. Well,

38:28

you know, those potential answers are as

38:30

broad and varied as the murders themselves.

38:32

Many have offered the theory that Charlie

38:34

just wanted to have something left behind

38:37

of people he knew would be dead soon. Though

38:40

why anyone would want a picture of it remains

38:42

to be seen. But there you

38:44

go. I mean, it's a very creepy picture. I

38:47

think the picture was haunted. Maybe

38:49

he was going for it before and after. Yeah,

38:52

maybe he was. Maybe he was. I wonder if

38:54

when he was in town, like buying them new

38:56

clothes for the portrait, he's just like, oh, I

38:58

do your seat guy. Yeah,

39:03

you never know. You never know. I think the

39:06

picture is a very haunting picture. I think the

39:08

picture drove insane. OK, I like that. I get

39:10

that theory. I have nothing to back it up.

39:12

Yeah, but it makes for a good horror movie.

39:14

I'm not. But I'm always very like Lovecraftian. Yeah.

39:17

Yeah. OK. That is that is what happened. Well,

39:19

do you have any theories? No. Well, I didn't

39:21

until right now. I like the portrait of the.

39:23

Yeah. I think that's what already happened. But there

39:26

you go. That's the story of the loss and

39:28

family murders. Pretty interesting tale.

39:30

And a man just went insane and murdered

39:32

his entire family for seemingly no reason at

39:34

all. We have theories, but nothing solid. Another

39:36

happy, happy Christmas to those guys, I guess.

39:39

Yeah. Yeah. Happy Christmas. Yeah.

39:42

Well, there you go. That ends this whole

39:44

episode. What are we talking about next week,

39:46

Keith? Oh, I think we're talking about some

39:48

snipers. Oh, yeah.

39:50

Next episode. Actually, I'm not sure if it'll be a

39:52

two parter or not. We will see, but it'll be a long one. It's

39:55

a story I'm very, very excited to get into next

39:57

week. I'm talking about the DC snipers. I

40:00

always wanted to cover because it's

40:02

fucking wet. And actually,

40:04

I was reading through some resources.

40:08

It reads like a movie. It doesn't seem real.

40:10

Yeah, I know. It's crazy. It's such a

40:12

great one. So look forward to that, folks at home. And yeah,

40:14

if you're listening, that will wrap up the Vatch afternoon.

40:26

I don't know. It's 7am where I am. God

40:28

only knows what time it is and where you are. Why don't you let me know? Let

40:30

me know in the comments below. But

40:33

yeah, Keith, final thoughts? Always like to

40:35

hand it over to you, you know? Wyoming?

40:38

Yeah, I guess if you're swinging an axe, just

40:40

be careful, guys. Don't hit your head. There

40:42

you go. Kill your old family. Yeah,

40:44

consider me wowed. All right, thank you so much

40:46

for listening. It means a lot. And all right.

40:48

Keith, you want to do your

40:50

patented? Oh, boy. There you go.

40:53

All right. Thanks, guys. Bye.

41:02

His wife, 37-year-old Fanny Lawson,

41:04

and their seven... Yeah,

41:09

exactly. You know, good for him, right? That's

41:12

what I say. That's what

41:14

I say.