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plan.

1:13

Hi, everyone, and welcome back. to that UFO

1:15

podcast. My name is Andy, and I am

1:17

delighted to welcome an internationally acclaimed

1:20

documentary maker. who has been creating

1:22

work on the UFO subject among others

1:25

for over thirty years, making his

1:27

triumphant return to the podcast, mister

1:29

James Fox, James welcome back.

1:31

Thank you so much for your that wonderful

1:33

intro, and I've got the gray hair and wrinkles

1:36

to prove it. Well, we're

1:38

gonna be talking about gray's potentially, but

1:40

maybe not that that came. But no. That's

1:42

that's that's that's that's a studious link. Lesson

1:45

James, let's get written to this because we were

1:47

just discussing before I had record that

1:49

you're a popular guest whether you like it or not,

1:51

and I had a lot of people get in touch with me.

1:53

So I know already I'm gonna disappoint

1:55

a lot of folks I can't get to their

1:58

last impressions. So I want to try and

1:59

get through as much as we can. And first

2:02

off, I want to know how dead does entire

2:04

project come about? I'd like to thank you've

2:06

got hundreds of cases and events in

2:08

your head that you want to do some kind of work

2:10

on. What was it that Virginia Brazil's

2:13

nineteen ninety six was the one that that came to

2:15

the top?

2:16

So

2:18

they say life is what

2:20

happens when you're busy making other

2:22

plans.

2:24

Right?

2:25

I was working

2:27

on out of the blue in

2:30

the late nineties. I

2:32

just finished a documentary called UFO's

2:34

fifty years of denial, which I sold the discovery

2:36

channel, to everyone's amazement because

2:39

everyone was like, you're crazy to do what

2:41

you had to document showing you, you know. And

2:44

I'd I'd launched this new

2:46

project out of the blue.

2:48

and it was probably nineteen ninety

2:51

eight or nineteen ninety nine, probably

2:53

closer to the to ninety nine.

2:56

I get a

2:57

a fellow producer on

2:59

the show that's gonna coproduce

3:01

the film with me. His name is Tim Coleman.

3:04

He used to work at the BBC. He's

3:06

very smart guy, highly respectable.

3:09

And he starts talking

3:11

about this Oh, we need

3:13

to look into this UFO crash in Brazil,

3:16

in Virginia where this

3:17

alien survived, and they're walking through the town,

3:19

and I thought, why on Earth did

3:21

I just partner with this dingbat? Like,

3:24

oh, no. What have I got myself into?

3:26

And I dismissed it so quickly. Like,

3:29

I tell people, like, I mean,

3:31

instantaneous. Like, there's there's no way

3:33

that happened, and there's no way I'm gonna look into

3:35

it. Fast forward,

3:39

probably eleven years, and

3:41

it was two thousand and ten or

3:43

early two thousand eleven. And I was

3:45

going to Brazil. I was invited

3:47

to Brazil. To speak regarding

3:51

a at a conference in Beto Ebi.

3:53

Regarding a film I did called, I know what I

3:55

saw. And a

3:58

friend of mine who's been quietly helping

4:01

behind the scenes, he's quite popular

4:04

in in the entertainment industry. His

4:06

name is Jeff Sigansky. And

4:08

Jeff says, oh my god. You're going to Brazil.

4:11

You gotta look into the Virginia case, and I was

4:13

like, oh, god. You mean that case

4:15

where the UFO, you know. And

4:17

I said, sure, Jeff, I'll look into it for you. Click

4:19

no intentions of looking into it. I got to Brazil.

4:22

I arrived at this conference. I gave a presentation

4:25

regarding my film and this effort that I did

4:27

at two thousand seven with Leslie Kane. at

4:29

the National Press Club, which I made a movie blah

4:31

blah blah. And at that conference,

4:33

I met a couple of witnesses and a couple of

4:35

researchers regarding this alleged

4:37

UFO crash in Virginia. And

4:41

reluctantly, I listened

4:43

and I thought

4:45

Maybe

4:46

there's more to this than I that I thought.

4:49

And so that was

4:51

when the plead the the sorry. The

4:53

seed was was was kinda planted. And

4:55

then subsequently, I've been I've been there

4:58

four times roughly a month each

5:00

time starting

5:02

in late two thousand eleven or early

5:04

two thousand twelve. And here

5:06

we are all these years later with moment of

5:08

contact. And now, of course, I'm

5:10

thoroughly convinced that it did happen,

5:13

and it's one

5:15

of most significant events in my opinion

5:19

since Roswell.

5:21

Now, what I'm not gonna do here

5:23

is do a fill walk through of the documentary,

5:25

piece by piece, scene by scene because one,

5:27

you've went to a lot of effort to make this over

5:30

the course of many years, and we want people

5:32

to go out and get a copy of it, which they should.

5:34

And I've also just done a full review.

5:36

If people want that kinda walk so they can listen

5:38

to that. However, there are a few parts

5:40

of it I want to to bring up and and chat with

5:42

you about. Right at the beginning, we

5:44

see a piece of information that on screen,

5:47

NORAD had alerted the Brazilians in nineteen

5:49

ninety six of a UFO entering

5:52

their space. For me, that

5:54

seem something that comes up and then I didn't

5:56

really touched on again. Was there something

5:58

more to that? Or was there any more you can

6:00

go into and explain about the background of that?

6:02

Well,

6:03

I debated putting that in because

6:05

it came from a Brazilian UFO

6:07

researcher who'd written a book we were in touch

6:09

with, and he was not willing he

6:11

was very credible. It was a good source,

6:13

and he was not willing to reveal

6:15

said source. But I sent

6:19

it out to a couple of my contacts within

6:21

the government and the US government intelligence

6:23

agencies. And I said, it's an early copy

6:25

out. And I said, does this seem accurate?

6:28

and we can't get the source.

6:31

The

6:31

guy that wrote the book on it that mentioned this

6:34

is was

6:35

unwilling to give reveal his source.

6:37

but he was a credible researcher. He

6:40

was a respected researcher. And we

6:42

trusted that he did have a source, but I did

6:44

due diligence in the sense that I sent it out

6:46

to a few people in the intelligence of the United States,

6:48

and they didn't have problem with it at all.

6:50

So in fact, they

6:53

even talked somewhat about

6:55

about a little bit about the case, which

6:57

kinda surprised me the some

7:00

of the the the aspects

7:02

of of the beans. There's there's smell

7:04

on that sort of thing. So we

7:06

we opted to to keep it in and

7:08

the Americans were involved. we

7:11

we we, you know, every

7:13

military, even civilian

7:15

witness that we spoke to,

7:18

had contact with with Americans.

7:20

From from some unknown government

7:22

agency at times, they said it was NASA, but

7:24

nobody really knew.

7:26

So what's really interesting then and I'm

7:28

gonna bring this up several times is even

7:30

though this event happened twenty six

7:32

years ago now,

7:35

it's still giving more and that would then suggest

7:37

to me that there could be information or

7:40

data that if you were

7:42

a member congress or someone within the United

7:44

States government with a big interest in UFOs.

7:47

They might be watching a documentary that's based

7:49

on a case twenty six years ago but

7:51

there's a chance that they could go and pull up

7:53

real data that was recorded potentially

7:56

by by NORAD at the time that

7:58

may indicate something dead enter

7:59

the atmosphere or come from wherever.

8:02

Do you think that would be correct?

8:04

I recently reached out

8:06

to John Greenwald who's got his PH

8:08

d in Foyer request. He does.

8:11

Yeah. Yeah. And so

8:13

I'm I'm going to see if

8:15

I can partner with him on our

8:17

efforts to find out what happened. We just

8:19

don't know what happened

8:21

once

8:22

the according to the Brazilian military

8:24

and civilian witnesses, once the plane

8:26

that flew in for the United States, United States

8:28

Air Force left the space called

8:30

Campinas, Espisex

8:33

military base where it went or

8:35

what happened to the debris or

8:37

or alleged bodies. We just we don't know. But

8:39

that's something I'm definitely digging into and I'm digging

8:41

into as of, like, next week.

8:43

You

8:44

know two things. One, that's a great team

8:46

up. But also, you are now telling me

8:48

having to one pronounce of Arjena correctly

8:50

and you've brought the name campiness as well.

8:52

So that's that's hard with a Scottish

8:55

accent. So apologies for because if I get any

8:57

other words wrong. Okay? I'm doing my best.

8:59

Yep.

9:00

we we go to one of the most striking moments

9:02

of the film for me was that we see the three

9:04

sisters, Valkyra, La Liani, and

9:07

Catia. who of our teenagers are,

9:09

like, fourteen, sixteen, and twenty one?

9:11

Two sorry. Two sisters

9:14

are Volkaria. fourteen at

9:16

the time and Liliani, sixteen

9:19

at the time and their friend, Katya,

9:22

twenty one at the time.

9:23

Yeah. So they saw what

9:25

they believed to be the the being who was

9:27

alive. The testimony

9:30

is fascinating. I think you get a real

9:32

sense of the honesty and their voice. There's

9:34

no smoking. There's no laughter. They're talking

9:36

about a pretty traumatic event for them.

9:39

And what they're describing is a very

9:41

real event that they witnessed, and and you mentioned

9:43

on your red EMA, which I suggest folks

9:46

called Checkout Red. to to see that

9:48

that the beings fear

9:50

when the scrape to you pinned you? No.

9:53

A lot about long winded, but under review of

9:55

the podcast, I brought up that a listener

9:57

who are named Susie Russell wanted me

9:59

to discuss whether she feels, there

10:01

can be a real lack of empathy portrayed

10:04

by anyone who makes anything

10:06

like this towards the beings.

10:09

And it was interesting to see you talk about

10:11

that that pin. Do you do you

10:13

think with you've got to

10:15

be you've got to be

10:17

sympathetic to the play of what

10:19

are being stranded on an alien

10:21

not alien planet say that makes an

10:23

assumption, but a alien environment somewhere

10:25

they're not supposed to be. They are terrified.

10:28

And how do you reflect on how beings are portrayed

10:31

in in moment of contact? but then

10:33

and why do you have full documentaries as well?

10:36

Well, you know, I've investigated

10:39

cases from around the world It

10:42

reminds me of an

10:45

interview I did with Parvise Gefari,

10:47

who is an Iranian air air

10:49

force pilot. who had a very dramatic

10:51

encounter over Tehran in nineteen seventy

10:54

six in an f four phantom jet.

10:56

And he had

10:58

sort of this cat and mouse with this UFO.

11:01

And he he finally was able

11:03

to kinda get a lock on this thing, and he was

11:05

gonna shoot it. And

11:08

his controls

11:10

froze up. He started

11:12

spiraling out of the sky. He said he was a

11:14

second or two away from ejecting. And

11:17

later reflecting back on

11:20

that moment, he said his biggest regret, he

11:22

said all this on camera, was that he didn't

11:25

try to make peaceful contact.

11:28

Why did I just shoot first,

11:30

ask questions later? And

11:32

that kind of disturbs

11:35

me as a fellow citizen of

11:38

the Earth that we

11:40

take this hostile

11:42

approach position

11:45

towards anything unknown in our

11:47

atmosphere or on the ground. And So

11:50

that's kind of why I I felt

11:53

sorry for the position

11:56

according to the eyewitness accounts of

11:58

the civilians. these beans,

11:59

creatures, whatever you wanna call them,

12:02

were scared. They were feeble, vulnerable,

12:05

and and and wanting help. according

12:08

to them. And that you you can't help

12:10

but feel feel sad. I mean,

12:12

imagine if it were true, And

12:15

I'm convinced it is, but if if it were

12:17

true and you were in their shoes, how

12:19

how you would feel if you were being

12:21

hunted down and and shot at?

12:23

of all the the witnesses

12:26

you spoke to and there's a great deal of testimony,

12:28

very a motive powerful testimony and

12:30

and moment of contact. That's what the the

12:33

strength of the documentary as what

12:35

was the most powerful for you to be

12:37

to be there in place speaking to the wetness?

12:39

What really stood out?

12:41

Military x.

12:43

for

12:43

me? Why?

12:44

Because I got to look him in the eyes.

12:46

I got to see the documentation. I'd

12:49

known that he was a witness

12:51

for some time.

12:53

the

12:54

It's known that he he was a witness

12:57

since nineteen ninety six. people

13:00

and all the researchers

13:02

and and civilian people have been trying

13:04

to get him to come forward. It was just a stroke

13:07

of luck. right place, right time, very

13:09

narrow window. I got to look them in the

13:11

eyes and there and

13:13

feel

13:16

the

13:19

the

13:20

the

13:22

emotions and see the

13:24

emotions of of how this

13:28

mission that he was involved with has affected

13:30

his life. and how, you know,

13:32

we always think of, wow, that level of validation,

13:35

that level of of confirmation

13:38

about these cases, wouldn't that be the

13:40

best thing ever for us, you know,

13:42

the researchers and those of us who have interest

13:45

in this phenomenon? But

13:47

quite honestly,

13:48

This

13:50

nearly destroyed his life. And

13:52

it's still to this day. He's looking

13:54

over his shoulder. He's paranoid. He

13:56

gets calls from the military. and

13:59

just imagining

13:59

that this this man

14:02

drove this creature around -- Mhmm.

14:04

-- you know, picked it up at Hummina's hospital

14:06

took it to as a military as a military

14:09

base, then and then vice SSS

14:11

pasex in in campiness, and then ultimately

14:13

the Americans coming in and

14:15

taking this this this these beings

14:17

away.

14:18

don't know. There was something about hearing

14:20

his testimony that just made

14:23

really profound impression on both

14:25

myself and my partner Mark O'L.

14:27

That's

14:27

really interesting. I think most

14:29

of the comments I've seen online tend to

14:31

say car loss. When he's the

14:34

when he goes to the scene, then you physically see him

14:36

cry and break down and drop to his knees and, you

14:38

know, was he and it was here. that was

14:40

a very powerful moment, very raw.

14:43

So, yeah, the interest and all because you get that

14:45

face to face. There's that always do

14:47

those moments always translate for you

14:50

as a director when you're trying to get those across

14:52

on camera, how it feels in the moment

14:54

to to have it's gonna come across to

14:56

someone watching. You

14:57

know, there wasn't a staged event in this

14:59

documentary. It all unraveled the way

15:01

it happened. And I remember the way

15:03

my DP our

15:05

DP,

15:07

David West, and he was constantly

15:09

like, slow down. Wait. I got we

15:11

got we don't have a movie. If we don't capture this,

15:13

it's like, Dave, I can't hold back

15:15

or if things are happening in real

15:17

time and, you you know, everybody's running

15:19

and

15:20

and but I felt that

15:23

That moment, particularly

15:25

because we were there for quite some time, it had been

15:27

twenty six years since Carlos DeSosa had been

15:29

to the crash site, and we were there for

15:31

well over two hours thinking at

15:33

some point, at one point that we were not gonna

15:35

find it. We just simply couldn't find

15:37

that location. And so

15:39

when we when we ultimately when we did

15:42

it was quite a dramatic moment.

15:44

But don't get me wrong. I mean, the the

15:46

the girls coming within

15:49

eight to ten feet in broad daylight,

15:51

three eyewitness accounts of

15:53

this alive being, this

15:55

creature that was sentiment sentient

15:58

being that had feelings and

15:59

emotions and

16:02

that was very profound. My

16:04

god.

16:05

something about the military guy that

16:08

that saw this thing and drove it around. I don't

16:10

know. That really

16:12

struck a chord with me. And during all

16:14

my you know, thirty

16:17

years of research. I've I've

16:19

never heard any testimony like it.

16:22

Well, I liked about it and I

16:24

think I noticed about twenty, twenty five

16:26

minutes then was the lack of

16:28

CGI recreations. I

16:31

think there was can really take away from a documentary,

16:33

and I appreciate that you work to a

16:35

budget. And even the biggest budgets

16:38

can have Rolpi looking CGI,

16:40

you know, Marvel in the last a couple of years have

16:42

proved that that even the biggest budgets can

16:44

can really take care of the moment. And

16:46

you chose to go with some some

16:48

artist impressions for, you know, when you're

16:50

looking at the looking at the expanse

16:52

of the grass and the hills and here's where

16:54

the military were and here's apparently what happened

16:57

with Carlos. Carlos in describing

16:59

the movement of the craft. instead of you having

17:01

some rupee cigar shaped, you know, CGI

17:04

object flying across. He uses a log

17:06

and just sorts it up and shows you. And

17:09

then And I linked that You're

17:11

the first person to notice that, but I

17:13

felt that it cheapens everything.

17:15

a and b, it's a huge

17:17

budget, which we didn't have anyway. And

17:20

it it cheapens everything. And what I do

17:22

is that Illustrator was the

17:24

same Illustrator in nineteen ninety six did the

17:26

illustrations according to the eyewitness testimony

17:28

and provided it to the news organizations in

17:31

Brazil. He's a Brazilian guy and reused

17:33

him to do the same thing and I cut

17:35

myself out. What I'll do is

17:37

I put the Illustrator directly in touch

17:39

with the with the with the witnesses. you let

17:41

us waituses and let them work it out

17:44

and cut me out of that process because

17:46

that's the way you get a more accurate depiction

17:48

of of of what they saw.

17:50

Yeah. No. I like that. So was that a conscious

17:52

decision? No CGI side? No.

17:54

Oh, gotcha graphics. Absolutely.

17:57

No.

17:57

I I like that and I I appreciated that. And

17:59

I get that's not to everyone's taste, but I think

18:02

it really can take you out of the moment. I think when

18:04

something is so testimony based

18:06

as well, you've got to either go all

18:08

in, which is probably to the tune of millions

18:10

of dollars. And even then, you're not sure of the

18:12

end product or like I say, I love the

18:14

fact that Carlos with a log. because I you can see

18:16

that. You can visualize it, and you don't wanna hit what that

18:18

was gonna be like, and it it takes you back

18:20

to that moment. Marco

18:23

Charissei, you mentioned as the officer

18:25

who allegedly apprehended the the

18:27

being after it ran out in front of

18:29

his patrol car. Helate had

18:31

died from from a strange disease believed

18:33

to have been coming from in contact with the being.

18:36

There was talk of strange, oily, greasy,

18:38

like substance on its skin, an

18:40

awful smell of of sulfur or ammonia.

18:43

They they weren't entirely sure exactly what it was,

18:45

but that was how it was described. And I

18:47

just wonder in conversations over

18:49

the years that you have had with individuals, whether

18:52

it be in government sources or witnesses,

18:54

How often do you hear about individuals dying

18:57

after coming into contact with a being

18:59

or a craft?

19:00

Never. Was

19:02

that the first?

19:03

Absolutely. I'd never

19:05

heard anything like it.

19:07

Yeah. Never heard anything like it.

19:10

Look, how many cases can you

19:12

think of where you've got an alleged

19:14

UFO crash? The beans

19:17

survive. They're

19:18

walking through a town in broad

19:20

daylight. You

19:21

get the military that

19:24

blocks off large swathes

19:26

of the town, threatens the media

19:29

with jail if they ask any more questions.

19:32

Threaten the civilians who are just trying to walk

19:34

to get home in broad daylight.

19:37

Right? This

19:38

is not, like, at the middle of the night. This was, like,

19:40

three o'clock in the afternoon.

19:42

You know, then you get these, you know, first

19:45

hand eye witness accounts of

19:47

these alien

19:49

looking creatures, basically. I mean,

19:54

I've never heard anything like it. I mean, Roswell,

19:57

I guess

20:00

I mean, happen to mill the desert, this

20:03

place this happened, like, on the outskirts of

20:05

a fairly large city, you

20:07

know, and then the the the encounters

20:09

occurred in the city of Virginia.

20:12

the I've

20:14

never heard anything like it.

20:16

I've

20:16

never heard anything like it. I mean, you know and you've

20:18

got Look, we

20:20

went we went to the the downtown square

20:23

of Virginia Brazil and put

20:26

up signs for an hour and a half, two hours.

20:28

and we couldn't believe how many people were coming

20:30

forward. They had a small piece of the puzzle.

20:33

Oh, my cousin saw this or I saw this UFO

20:35

that looks like looking for something or

20:37

we saw the military blockade, we saw this,

20:39

you know, it just all these

20:41

pieces of the puzzle. and

20:43

you put it all together and

20:45

you have what cannot be I

20:48

mean, I can't imagine anything else other than

20:50

a UFO crashed. some

20:54

beans survived and were captured

20:56

in the town of Vargina Brazil in January

20:59

of nineteen ninety six.

21:01

Let let me ask because I mentioned this on

21:03

the review that the the

21:05

very short moments we see of you standing

21:07

with the signs, which I love the, again, just that

21:10

kind of cheapen that but it gets as effective.

21:12

Right. You're you're basically on the street

21:14

corners as bad as that might sound. If you have not seen

21:16

it yet, you know, solicit thing for for

21:18

UA for for you, F4 News. There

21:20

is. I was looking at the temperature of the town.

21:23

We had interviews already lined up. I wanted to

21:25

know what the what the local slot. what what

21:27

was the ratio like? Because what I said was

21:29

and, obviously, you've got seconds to put into

21:31

the actual final product. The the few kind

21:33

of vox pops or moments that you

21:35

used were all very positive and

21:37

about the case. What was the ratio

21:39

of people actually approaching you who had

21:41

hair or wanted to talk about it? to

21:44

to those who maybe came up and said, no, nothing

21:46

happened. Don't don't believe it.

21:50

I can't think of anyone that didn't

21:52

believe it. I think the least we got was

21:55

I think it's possible. But

21:58

for the most part, they everyone

22:00

believed that something truly inexplicable

22:03

took place. What exactly that was they

22:05

didn't know? But there were too many

22:07

stories swirling around about the military

22:10

presence. People were like, look, man, the military

22:12

doesn't military trucks don't drive through

22:14

and do blockades in this town. They've never

22:17

happened before. it's never happened since.

22:19

Clearly, something extraordinary took place.

22:21

the

22:23

I would say

22:26

twenty to thirty percent of the people that we

22:28

spoke with had

22:30

some indirect piece of information

22:33

director in indirect piece of

22:35

of fascinating, you know,

22:38

information.

22:39

And let me refer to the the skeptical

22:41

who might be listening to this, you know, with that kind

22:43

of raised raised eyebrow. I'm

22:45

from Scotland as people can probably tell

22:47

by this point. and lochness

22:50

is famous for nessie, you know,

22:52

lochness monaster, stunning area. It's

22:54

beautiful. If anyone ever gets chance to travel

22:56

there, it's worth it. just for the viewers alone.

22:59

But that that area makes a healthy amount

23:02

of money from tourism. What

23:04

would you say to someone who says to you? Well,

23:06

the the residents of Virginia

23:08

are are

23:09

maybe milking what may have happened

23:11

for that kind of tourist dollar that may come

23:13

in. Well,

23:15

they've never had a museum. I think the

23:17

museum is gonna open for the first time

23:20

in in the next month or two. And

23:23

you know, I mean, look at Roswell.

23:25

I mean,

23:26

Roswell happened. And, of course, they're gonna,

23:29

you know, advertise the fact that it happened.

23:31

I mean, why wouldn't they? They've

23:34

certainly embraced the story. They're not hiding

23:36

from it.

23:37

the

23:38

I mean, it's

23:39

either that or just complete denial. I mean,

23:41

I don't know. I probably want people to come

23:43

to my town too. I hard to say.

23:45

But, I mean, I can't

23:47

I don't blame them. I didn't see a

23:49

lot of promotion of

23:50

you know, certainly

23:52

when was in Brazil, in fact,

23:54

most of the people, the Brazilians prior

23:56

to this film coming out were somewhat skeptical.

23:58

I think the military did a pretty good job of

24:00

shutting this whole thing down. Mhmm.

24:03

Yeah. It was

24:05

hard it's hard to say, look, I know

24:07

how

24:08

unbelievable this story is. I'd be the

24:11

first one to tell you that I didn't believe it either.

24:13

And I was making a documentary on

24:15

UFO's when it happened

24:18

you know, my first one. And I was

24:20

making my second film when I'd heard about

24:22

it. And and I just had a really

24:25

hard time imagining that something of that magnitude

24:27

could occur and the whole world not know about

24:29

it. So to the to the skeptics out there,

24:31

I say, hear you loud and clear. I don't blame

24:33

you one bit. All I say is, listen

24:35

to the eyewitness testimony in the town of Virginia,

24:38

listen to the military, listen to the civilians,

24:40

listen to the doctors, and

24:43

those reports and then draw your own conclusions.

24:46

What was the most difficult thing

24:49

in in filming this particular documentary?

24:52

convincing witnesses to come forward.

24:55

Very, very difficult.

24:57

Years. Years.

25:01

Some of the doctors years. Cesario? The

25:05

x-ray technician. x-ray technician,

25:08

I think, was eight years.

25:10

Marco Laiel was going by his place,

25:12

constantly met him. And then he

25:14

retired, and then it still took several

25:16

years after he retired. And after he

25:18

went on the record, of course,

25:21

he had his backfill, and he wouldn't want his face, and we had

25:23

to disguise his voice. It was either that or we weren't

25:25

gonna get him.

25:26

the

25:27

he said I would leave. He felt like

25:30

a weight off his shoulders. But

25:32

but it How

25:37

fearful the witnesses were

25:39

twenty six years later? That's what

25:41

was so difficult about it. I

25:43

I kept thinking, oh my god, it's been twenty six

25:45

years with all these guys worried about,

25:47

but they were. You

25:49

know? And and And the and

25:51

the the people that were threatened at

25:53

the time were done so in weird

25:55

way. It wasn't like, hey, we're gonna you know, you talking about

25:57

this, we're gonna kill your whole family. It was more eerie

25:59

kind

25:59

of than that. was

26:00

like the consequences of

26:03

violating your security oath or something would

26:05

be extremely severe, or things

26:07

are gonna if you talk about these things gonna get

26:09

really weird for you,

26:10

you know, those types of of threats.

26:13

Don't talk about this at all.

26:15

Don't mention us being here. We never

26:17

came. We never saw anything. That kind of

26:19

stuff.

26:20

Anyway, yeah,

26:21

very strange. I mean, the whole thing is

26:23

just

26:25

it's a crazy story. I

26:27

mean,

26:27

look, been investigating UFO reports.

26:29

incidences for the better part

26:31

of thirty years. I've never heard anything

26:33

like it. And the nice thing about this case

26:36

is that It's recent enough

26:38

where the vast majority of eyewitnesses are

26:40

still alive. It was nineteen ninety six.

26:43

I'm glad you used that as your example

26:46

of what was difficult the the kinda

26:48

the twenty six years and why they're still fearful

26:50

about talking something and it's not

26:52

blazzy. It wasn't just, yeah, that's happened. It was

26:54

still emotive. It was still fearful. talked

26:56

about the the get it was from before. You

26:58

talked about, you know, MilitaryX. you talk about

27:00

carlos to serve, breaking down twenty six

27:03

years after, you know, what is visiting

27:05

a a piece of grass out in the middle of a of

27:07

the hills. but it's truly

27:09

something that's left a mark on them and I wonder.

27:12

And it's very strange to say this as as moment

27:14

of contacts legacy. going to

27:16

be what comes afterwards Yes.

27:19

-- because it seems like it's very

27:21

it's very rare that the hype seems

27:23

to have started after the release, which

27:25

I'm sure is fantastic if you like to struck it

27:27

or are looking to try and make some of that money

27:29

back. But this wasn't something that was hyped

27:31

beforehand, James, and the way and

27:34

now there seems to have been a reaction afterwards

27:37

and a bit of a snowball effect.

27:39

Yeah. I knew that.

27:41

I made a calculated decision with the distributor

27:44

because we're waiting for some additional

27:46

evidence to surface that we've got

27:48

a very solid lead on. And

27:50

I said, look, you know, the film's the film's

27:52

done. It's not

27:54

about the film at this point. It's about encouraging

27:57

other eyewitness testimony to come forward.

27:59

And

28:00

let's put the film out and and cross

28:02

our fingers that this this does

28:04

start a movement of further

28:06

transparency and further cooperation

28:09

the

28:10

both in Brazil and the United States. And

28:12

that seems to be what's happening right now.

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story to life. And

29:37

is that further evidence we have to

29:40

talk about the video obviously? Because

29:42

I hate to say, you know, my sources say,

29:44

and I never do it, but I I've

29:46

spoken to Brazilian researchers

29:49

in the last couple of days who tell me that video

29:51

is out there. That video has been

29:53

has been seen by people and

29:55

it's it's going to come out. And you've said

29:58

yourself, again, on your Reddit AMA,

29:59

on your Twitter, you know, very

30:02

soon, we're gonna see stuff coming out.

30:04

Now you've you've said yourself a financial

30:07

stake of two hundred thousand dollars, which

30:10

I addressed that's on the review as well

30:12

that someone said that wasn't a lot of money for

30:14

evidence. And I said, I would suggest that

30:16

that James' family would say that's a lot of money.

30:18

And James' itself would say, two hundred thousand dollars,

30:20

there's a lot of cash to park with.

30:23

you

30:23

have got a thousand dollars a lot in the United

30:25

States, and it's five times that in

30:27

Brazil. Well,

30:28

there are people I don't even think would would think

30:30

about that. So that's a really good point.

30:33

that video you must have a lot of

30:35

faith and due diligence that that's

30:37

going to come out. What sort of

30:40

impact could this have on

30:42

won the release? but to the

30:44

Wade WFF or subject?

30:48

I I was contacted by

30:52

a pretty prominent news

30:55

organization. I think it was

30:57

it was probably yesterday. And

31:00

they

31:01

cautioned me on because

31:04

all I'm thinking quite honestly is I just wanna get

31:06

my hands on it. I've spoken to two people.

31:08

two people who have seen the videotaped evidence and

31:10

one person that see personally, me personally.

31:13

Okay? And one person that's seen, and

31:15

I absolutely believe them, they did not come to me.

31:17

We came to them. we hunted them down

31:19

and we spent years in years doing

31:21

it, especially Marco Layhouse had boots

31:24

on the ground for, you know, fifteen to

31:26

seventeen years.

31:31

the

31:33

This news organization contacted me and

31:35

said, look, you know, if you guys do manage to

31:37

get your hands on it, you need to strategize on

31:40

how how you're gonna release it to the world.

31:42

Don't just put it on, you know, YouTube.

31:44

It needs to be strategic you need

31:46

to have a news organization behind you that could

31:49

do due diligence,

31:50

contact

31:51

the source

31:56

And so I I promised that that

31:59

organization that that we would do that

32:01

and we would be strategic

32:03

on how we on how we did it. I mean, ultimately,

32:06

I would probably because I'd be borrowing the

32:08

money. I have a guy who's poised to

32:10

lend it to me. And

32:12

so I might maybe make a director's

32:14

cut and and re release the film and

32:17

and also have a news organization reporting

32:19

on it. probably. But again, that

32:21

that that decision has yet yet to be made.

32:23

Right now, we're just focusing on

32:25

getting our hands on it.

32:27

Well, like I say, it's it's almost

32:29

like the what comes next

32:31

could almost make the the the

32:34

documentary, the interlude to this evidence

32:36

because it suddenly becomes

32:38

something that that the general public

32:40

who haven't seen moment of contact or maybe don't

32:42

have that interest in the UFO subject. potentially

32:45

seeing this thirty five second video on

32:47

whichever news organization or YouTube or

32:49

Tech Talk channel wants to go with it.

32:52

then all of a sudden moment of contact

32:54

becomes the the context behind

32:56

this video piece, doesn't it? That people will have to

32:59

go and watch that. And it's almost like you've

33:01

created the folder and file for that

33:03

little piece of evidence at the end, which is, like

33:05

I say, it's really interesting that that kind of

33:07

reverse impact this is having, which

33:09

is which is really cool to see. On

33:11

that, I'd I'd love to know that if members of Congress

33:14

asked you to to brief them and are

33:17

classified setting on on moment of

33:19

contact. Is there any information

33:21

that you would or could share with them

33:23

that wasn't included in the final presentation

33:25

that you feel would be important?

33:28

So there

33:31

were hearings.

33:33

Congressional hearings for the first time in

33:35

what is it? Fifty, sixty years.

33:39

fifty plus years. And

33:41

and during that time, a few people from

33:44

the inside asked me where

33:46

the film was in its current state.

33:48

Could we make a couple of

33:50

screeners even

33:52

if it's rough?

33:54

for certain members. And

33:56

I said excuse me. I said

33:59

yes. And I did.

34:00

And apparently, it made quite a splash

34:03

I'm in touch with some of those people now.

34:05

It's

34:07

it's kind of a tall order for

34:10

any elected official at this point

34:12

to start commenting on, you know,

34:15

an alleged, you know, UFO crash

34:17

in live beings. I mean, that's just

34:20

It's one of those cases where you have to say extraordinary

34:22

claims require extraordinary evidence. But

34:24

I can assure you that that this

34:27

case is on their minds

34:29

and and having an influence in the decision

34:31

making process,

34:32

and certainly a push for

34:34

additional look, we wanna know where

34:37

it is and who has the authority release it?

34:39

I mean, that's the bottom line. Right?

34:41

We're pretty sure that it's there.

34:44

We'd like to be more sure. but

34:46

but this is certainly the impetus

34:50

which is encouraging

34:53

both civilian and military and government

34:55

officials to dig a little deeper. And

34:58

do you think with that US involvement in

35:00

this case that is fairly well known,

35:02

there would be people within the US government now

35:04

who have even more of an interest in

35:07

potentially following up those leads as

35:09

to where beings may have gone, where bodies

35:11

may have gone, where our teenagers may have gone.

35:14

Definitely. Definitely. Look, I would love

35:17

if there's anyone in the US military that

35:20

was involved in this case, please

35:22

come I would love them to come forward. I would

35:24

love Congress to make an announcement

35:26

that they're gonna provide, you know,

35:29

a blanket kind of was

35:32

it not anonymity immunity immunity?

35:35

Immunity from any kind of prosecution for

35:38

disclosing these kind of secrets.

35:41

I would love to see that happen. And I think

35:43

that if that did happen, it would

35:45

be much more likely

35:47

that we would get, you know, American witnesses

35:50

to come forward.

35:51

It's funny. Do you know what if that

35:53

would be wonderful for you if you suddenly had access

35:55

to hold the talking heads to

35:57

come on on front of camera and speak about various

36:00

different things. And what I found

36:02

and reflection and moment of contact. I

36:04

would love to see this as a type of

36:06

Netflix series. And I'm sure you would love Netflix

36:09

to come to you and offer you a ton of cash to make this

36:11

kind of stuff. But I would

36:13

love to see Virginia and other cases

36:15

lined up next to each other in that seventy,

36:18

eighty, ninety minute format with

36:20

a big budget and you're going

36:22

out and finding witnesses from

36:24

all around the world. And I would ask, what

36:27

if that did happen, what would the next in the

36:29

series b that would naturally follow on from

36:31

Virginia for you? I

36:32

think that I would ultimately have a lot more

36:35

control maintaining my

36:37

independent my independence as I am

36:39

now and licensing

36:42

the end product directly to

36:44

a platform like Netflix.

36:46

Because once the executive step in,

36:48

they seem to know best on

36:50

on how these things are done, and I had that

36:52

problem with the phenomenon -- Mhmm.

36:55

-- like my film, the phenomenon.

36:57

And, you know, there were with

36:59

Netflix almost bought it. And in fact,

37:01

we we couldn't sell it to them because my

37:03

distributor had accidentally

37:06

sold non exclusive broadcast rights

37:09

to Discovery Channel.

37:10

And as a result, Netflix

37:13

Netflix could not have an exclusive,

37:15

which is what they want. Okay. And

37:18

But I remember when we were in talks of edits,

37:21

they were saying, oh, yeah, let's give a counterargument

37:24

to what the girl saw in Ruth's and Bob with the children

37:26

saw in Ruth's and Bob way. It's like, well, first

37:28

of all, I'm not really saying

37:30

what they saw. They're saying what

37:32

they saw, and we're not concluding

37:34

anything. So why would I do a counterargument

37:37

to an argument that haven't even made? All

37:39

I'm all I'm doing is providing a neutral

37:41

platform.

37:42

So I remember thinking their

37:46

exposure is great,

37:48

but

37:48

it comes at a price. And

37:51

these executives don't really have a clue what's

37:53

going on in in terms of the phenomenon.

37:55

And so I'm

37:57

inclined to maintain a

37:59

very independent platform such

38:02

as my own, which I've been doing for

38:04

nearly thirty years and

38:06

and and and going after it.

38:08

And what I'm inclined to do next

38:11

is to walk the halls of Congress

38:13

the and

38:15

and

38:16

the

38:17

determine what is now known within

38:20

these government agencies, the old task

38:22

force, and

38:24

where this evidence that we've all heard

38:26

about

38:27

It's been confirmed to me by the

38:29

former senate majority leader who

38:31

was third in who was second in line to be president

38:33

senator Harry Reid.

38:36

Is

38:36

that the house? Sorry. But anyway, one

38:38

of most powerful men in Washington at

38:40

the time, and

38:41

that senator Harry Reid, who was the senate

38:43

majority leader, that that what's

38:45

been released is only the tip of the iceberg.

38:47

Howard Bauchner:

38:49

Now just before we get to some last

38:51

night questions, James, I want to

38:53

sort of steal the end part talking about

38:55

a different type of footage because we're gonna go back

38:57

to a moment a contact in a second. But something

39:00

else you're sort of synonymous with is talking

39:02

about the Chuck clock footage. And

39:04

for those aren't aware, and I'm gonna probably bastardize

39:07

this. Actually, do you mind very quickly,

39:09

James, talking about what the chart clock footages

39:11

and your own words because you'll describe it better than I

39:13

will. How

39:14

much time do I have?

39:16

try

39:18

and surmise it so we can get to lessen our questions,

39:20

but it's it's fascinating. And this is it was

39:22

actually the first time I ever heard you speak.

39:25

was on Howard Hughes

39:27

unexplained years ago talking

39:29

about this piece of footage, and I was just, like,

39:31

fascinated

39:32

Well, so I'll quickly say

39:34

I was doing my first documentary on UFO's,

39:37

fifty years of denial. I

39:38

covered area

39:41

fifty one was very popular at the time. It

39:43

was the

39:43

early nineties, ninety three,

39:46

ninety four, mid nineties, ninety

39:48

five. And I was interviewing a gentleman

39:50

named Chuck Clark,

39:52

who had a double wide. He

39:54

was a a amateur astronomer, former

39:57

military guy, he had a trailer,

39:59

a nice, very nice

39:59

trailer that was that was parked in

40:02

Rachel, Nevada, which is that little town

40:04

where the alien in is on on

40:06

on the extra terrestrial highway just outside

40:09

the alleged you know, the so called area fifty

40:11

one. And I was interviewing him

40:13

about a sighting that he'd had, and it was quite fascinating.

40:17

And so I was kinda going back and forth

40:19

with him over, I don't know, a year,

40:21

a year and a half, whatever it was during production,

40:23

becoming friends, and he

40:25

was knew

40:26

all these different vantage points that you could hike

40:28

up to and look down at the base. think all those vantage

40:30

points are are gone now. And

40:33

one day called me and he and oh oh,

40:35

Give

40:35

me one minute.

40:37

He called me out of the blue and

40:39

he said, hey hey,

40:41

James. I got something to I got I got something to

40:43

show you. And

40:44

I was like, well, what's going on, Chuck?

40:47

He goes, well, I was like, what is it? You

40:49

know, he goes and I was

40:51

ten, eleven hours away from from from from

40:53

him by car. And

40:54

he says, well, let's put it this way.

40:57

When you see it, your jaw's gonna hit the floor.

40:59

I said, I'm on

41:01

my way. I canceled all my things, jumped to

41:03

my car. drove straight out to

41:05

Rachel, Nevada,

41:07

went into his trailer, pop

41:09

this VHS tape in, and

41:12

there are two

41:13

guys

41:15

on a road trip from,

41:17

like, Los Angeles to the little alien.

41:19

because remember area fifty one was very popular.

41:21

Bob Lazard come out couple years earlier. Yada

41:24

yada. And

41:27

they

41:27

were just, like, goofing off,

41:29

had music in the car, looked

41:31

at the extra terrestrial road sign

41:33

went to the little alien. They're posing next to

41:36

the aliens. The photographs. Blah blah

41:38

blah. Just the typical road trip

41:40

you'd expect a couple of youngsters to do

41:42

during that time, you know. And then

41:44

all of a sudden, the cars part

41:47

The camera looks like it's kinda like cock

41:50

eyed sitting on the armrest, and

41:52

you could see, like, the dashboard,

41:54

the the wind screen, the

41:56

knob controls with the heater, probably

41:59

a part of the steering

41:59

wheel. And and like I said, it's slightly

42:02

it's not level. It's like cocks a

42:04

little bit. And

42:05

the and the two guys in that car sounded

42:07

like they were trying to crawl out of the seats. That's what

42:09

it sounded like. I couldn't see them.

42:12

And they're screaming back and forth to each other. It's

42:14

over the top of us. It's over the top of us, go down.

42:16

Get down. Get down. And

42:17

all of a sudden, like, the inside of this

42:20

car, and it was dusk. The

42:21

inside of this car lights up like a

42:24

Steven Spielberg movie, with a light

42:26

like a source. And

42:28

if this is the car,

42:30

the light source is above it.

42:33

and it's moving in a very fluid

42:35

fashion. And the way I knew that is

42:37

because the shadows on the inside of the car

42:40

were eerily moving. Right? You've never seen

42:42

anything like it. k? You've never

42:44

seen shadows on the inside

42:46

of a car

42:47

moving in the way this was because

42:49

the only way that could have happened is

42:51

that if the light source was on a pendulum, very

42:54

smooth, kinda doing this. And

42:56

it

42:56

wasn't, I wouldn't say, directly back and

42:58

forth. It was kinda more of a wobble, but

43:00

smooth.

43:01

No erratic jerkiness smooth.

43:05

Get down. Get down. It's over the top of us.

43:07

Get down the lights lighting up with a dashboard,

43:09

and then

43:10

I'm giving you the short version. And then one of

43:12

the apparently, the younger guy who was

43:14

nineteen, he jumps out of the he he's

43:16

as I'm getting out of the car. And

43:17

he grabs the camera and the guy's like, stay in the car.

43:19

Stay in the car. He didn't listen and got out. And

43:22

then he's rolling camera.

43:25

And you could see, like, the

43:27

desert a little bit at first. I mean, it's not

43:29

like pitch black. It was like dusk.

43:31

And I would say,

43:35

Maybe the height of a telephone pole, maybe

43:37

a little higher, was this

43:41

Perfect

43:42

yellow, orange,

43:45

disc.

43:47

Carlos Diaz,

43:48

The closest thing I've ever seen to it is the Carlos

43:50

Diaz photographs. You know? And it's

43:52

like a disc, and it looks like a

43:55

pie. Sorry. looking for something that is around

43:57

me. It

43:57

looks like a pie and it looks like

43:59

like like

44:00

somebody took a perfect knife and

44:02

cut

44:03

pieces on the pie but didn't remove the pie.

44:06

And those seams were darker.

44:08

Like,

44:08

there wasn't as much light emitting from those

44:10

scenes, so you kinda see them. And it was

44:12

just rocking. Like, it was

44:15

kinda just floating You've never I've

44:17

never seen anything like it ever

44:19

before since nothing. And it was

44:21

just kinda rocking there. Kinda kinda

44:23

like this. and

44:25

probably couldn't hit it with

44:27

a rock, probably. And

44:29

and the cameraman goes, oh

44:31

my god. Like that.

44:33

You know? And then

44:35

he he might have said something about the battery

44:37

or something, but then the camera shut

44:40

off, and that was it. I

44:41

looked over to Chuck Clark and I was

44:43

like,

44:46

holy belief, where

44:49

did you get this?

44:51

And then I tried

44:53

for

44:56

twenty years to get it, fifteen,

44:59

twenty years, and then he finally

45:01

the

45:03

he finally told me didn't even

45:05

have anymore, which I didn't believe.

45:08

But I found out about a year or two ago that

45:10

he does still have it, and he showed it to two people,

45:12

and it's pretty degraded at this point. The

45:14

VHS tape is It's been a v on VHS.

45:17

And the cameraman who shot at his sorry.

45:20

The cameraman who

45:23

was at a new station

45:25

who made a VHS

45:28

copy from the master

45:31

has just died,

45:34

like, last year or something -- Mhmm.

45:36

-- because if I could if I could have

45:38

gotten him sooner, he would

45:40

have been still alive, and I could have probably had

45:42

he he worked at a news organization in

45:44

LA. And I'm sure that he had a master

45:46

on beta or something. course, we've contacted

45:49

him and he's trying to reach out to his son,

45:51

whatever. But but Chuck

45:53

Clark still has a copy. It's on VHS and

45:55

it's pretty degraded.

45:56

you know, as you'd expect for I don't know

45:59

what let's

45:59

just

45:59

say it was ninety four and ninety five.

46:02

What

46:02

was how many years? Twenty seven years? Yeah.

46:04

Yeah. For twenty seven years on a VHS

46:06

tape? You know what I mean?

46:08

And

46:08

does Chuck not have an interest in two hundred

46:10

thousand dollars? I

46:13

I wouldn't pay two hundred thousand dollars for that

46:15

degraded tape at

46:17

this point. No. Chuck doesn't have an interest in any

46:19

amount of money. No. No. I offer them thirty

46:21

five thousand dollars from when I sold

46:23

out of the blue to NBCUniversal. and

46:25

that's when he said he'll never talk to me again.

46:28

That

46:28

was probably, like, two thousand three or something.

46:32

I wonder though if he's showing

46:35

I

46:35

mean, who would your surmise he's showing this

46:37

to, you know, if he sources who he showed

46:39

it to. Okay. And is it people

46:41

that I be how happy to hear he's showing it to or

46:43

does he just show it to you? He actually was one of

46:45

them gladly. Sure. Yeah.

46:47

Happily. I don't

46:48

wanna release his name here, but just send me an email.

46:50

I'll put in touch with him. know that's fine. Yeah.

46:52

I may I may already know them. I

46:54

might not. That'd be but, yeah,

46:56

that'd be interesting to speak to because if someone

46:58

like that has as a tape. And even

47:00

as degraded as it might be now at this

47:02

point, that's still something people would like

47:04

to see. I'm sure. I'd love to see

47:06

it out. I'd love to see it out. I'd

47:08

love to been talking about it long enough and I

47:10

don't care anymore. Like, I just I think I

47:12

gave up carrying that about a couple years ago. I was like,

47:15

you know what? I don't care.

47:16

Chuck. I don't know why Chuck. I said to Chuck, like,

47:19

just put me in touch with the guys that shot

47:21

it

47:22

and let me talk to them. That's it.

47:24

And

47:24

he wouldn't do it. I don't know why. Or maybe he

47:26

tried and he wouldn't he never told me he tried. He

47:28

just he just wouldn't do it. Are they still alive?

47:31

I have no idea.

47:35

Interesting. I mean, I would imagine they

47:37

would be. Apparently, one of the kids was,

47:39

you know, nineteen and the other guy was,

47:41

like, twenty nine. from

47:43

what I understand.

47:46

Okay. I just sorry.

47:48

I just want that was really frustrating but

47:50

fascinating things in in the world that you're f or is

47:52

that I'm just like, if only I could see that, that

47:54

would be that would be good. I

47:57

saw it with these eyes. Okay? me.

47:59

I saw it.

48:01

I was, wow.

48:03

I I just remember thinking, that's

48:05

why that's why so many

48:07

people are at a lack that

48:09

that that can't find the words in the English language

48:11

to describe that magic the way

48:13

it floats -- Yeah. -- the way wobbling

48:15

floated. you know, and it looked

48:18

alive. Like, the

48:20

skin was just glowing alive, like,

48:22

phosphorus or something. Like, it was just

48:26

like

48:26

a jellyfish or something like a live, but it

48:28

was a structured object. It wasn't just like a

48:30

ball of light. Yeah. It was a disc.

48:32

It it was the best footage

48:35

Look, man. It's

48:36

I've never seen anything like it since

48:39

that stuff that was released in the Pentagon,

48:41

looks like garbage compared to this.

48:43

Yeah.

48:44

That's that's that's the entrance and stuff, and I'm

48:46

sure they've got some good stuff in the painting going as

48:48

well still. lesson James, thank you for sharing

48:50

that. Let's get to some of these lesson up questions to wrap

48:52

up. because I had a lot of them sent

48:55

and we'll fight after what we can.

48:57

The question first off from Neumann.

49:00

Neumann sends in a lot of questions and he asks

49:02

within the recent years, different explanations

49:04

for the encounters with alien beings

49:06

have been proposed, ultra terrestrial

49:09

and extra temp terrestrial models became

49:11

very popular. Both state that

49:13

encountered being simply originate from

49:15

our planet from your research.

49:17

Is there any evidence to support that the

49:19

being was was encountered in Virginia could

49:22

have been anything from this earth.

49:25

Absolutely no idea.

49:29

Do

49:29

you have a gut feeling? I know you you

49:31

say it's doing. I don't have a gut

49:33

feeling. I just don't.

49:35

I wish I did. I

49:36

can ramble something off, but I just

49:39

I I just have no idea. You

49:41

know,

49:41

and people are like, you know, you're saying it's

49:43

extra trust. No, I'm not.

49:46

I really don't know. I

49:47

mean, they had a they probably had a

49:50

spacecraft that had a gash in the

49:52

side of it, which leads me to think that they came from

49:54

somewhere. you

49:55

know, I mean,

49:56

if there wasn't that link between the

49:59

entities and the and the crashed ship,

50:01

the cigar shaped UFO, I might

50:04

be more inclined to think that it was something maybe

50:06

underground here in the in the world.

50:09

But there is that aspect of it. According to

50:11

the eyewitness testimony, there was a craft

50:13

that crashed. But

50:15

I just don't know. III wish I could

50:17

tell your your audience that I knew I just

50:19

don't. I don't have any I I don't

50:21

know. I'm

50:22

sorry to be such a disappointment on that

50:25

one, but I just I'm not a clue.

50:27

No.

50:27

It's a fair place to be in, and I I'm happy

50:29

to set on the fence when I have to as well. You I

50:31

don't mind speculating. But like you say in

50:33

your in your role, like when that executive

50:36

told you to provide a counted argument

50:38

for the, you know, the the aerial skill

50:41

stuff. You're like, girl, there's no counted argument

50:43

to be made that I'm presenting what they saw.

50:45

So there's no point in trying to present something

50:47

that isn't there.

50:48

Yeah. And I wasn't there. I didn't

50:51

see it.

50:52

my opinion is irrelevant.

50:54

I put I put the I

50:57

put the witnesses, the first hand

50:59

witnesses in the movie, and I'm allowing

51:02

the audience to draw their own conclusions. I

51:04

have no conclusions.

51:06

I don't know.

51:08

I'd

51:08

like to know, I'm

51:10

very curious.

51:12

I

51:14

would follow-up with that with No.

51:17

That's that's absolutely fine. Follow-up

51:19

from body. He can't see you right

51:21

now. Well, III wonder,

51:23

actually, body question, I'm gonna have to rewatch

51:25

slightly because you're gonna say I don't know. But

51:27

he Bali asks, were are the creatures that escaped

51:30

cargo or pilot in your opinion.

51:32

And if you don't want to share maybe your opinion

51:34

or speculation, was there any

51:36

sense from the community that these

51:39

beings were piloting? Were they

51:41

were they cargo?

51:43

It's funny you should say that because

51:45

I might have cut this part out,

51:48

but

51:49

there was an interview I did

51:52

with Stanton Friedman, bless

51:54

his heart, love that guy. And

51:56

he said that the evidence leaned leaned in

51:58

the direction of cargo

51:59

as opposed to pilots.

52:01

Why he said that? Was anyone's guess? But

52:04

that's what Stanson Friedman said. On

52:06

camera to me in Brazil.

52:09

And

52:09

for anyone who's not sure what we mean

52:11

by cargo or just my dodgy pronunciation

52:13

of the word cargo, we're we're talking

52:15

about these beer. Your car goes as opposed

52:18

to doesn't go. Right? Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

52:20

Yeah. Like those pure traps

52:22

that get caught by the UFO and Chuck Clark's footage

52:24

with that car just would not go Yeah.

52:27

You're you're talking about these beings where potentially

52:31

presenters are basically, you know, being

52:33

being carried from one place to another, buy

52:35

something else who knows, but there's always

52:37

that possibility. just automatically assume

52:40

beings on a craft who are piloting it,

52:42

but that's

52:42

an assumption. There's no proof in

52:44

any case that that's the case.

52:47

Yeah. I mean,

52:49

I've heard a Brazilian researcher who

52:52

said that he his

52:55

theory was that they were biologically engineered

52:59

the

53:00

to perform certain

53:02

tasks like a drone would.

53:04

But, again, I

53:06

I have no evidence of that.

53:09

No.

53:09

That's fair. That's that's quite a popular opinion

53:11

more more so these days. Mhmm. Question

53:14

from Joe. Joe asked what was John

53:16

Maxwell in investigating the Virginia

53:18

incident? Did he produce any research

53:21

notes or other documentation that could be

53:23

published?

53:24

Unfortunately, none that I

53:26

know of. It was interesting too

53:28

because I was investigating the

53:31

nineteen ninety four Reuters

53:33

and Bob way, a landing

53:35

case closed in counts of the third kind.

53:37

And within two weeks,

53:40

Doctor John Mac of Harvard

53:42

showed up with a camera crew

53:44

with the support of Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller

53:47

at the time and documented

53:49

roughly sixty six kids, although there were

53:51

a hundred I'm told in the in the in the playground

53:54

at the time, documented sixty six

53:56

kids on camera. And

53:59

I was in touch

53:59

with Lawrence Bowman and Rockefeller's daughter.

54:03

And she said to me that she

54:05

was rather disappointed that Doctor

54:07

John Mack didn't really do ultimately anything

54:09

with that those interviews. Now,

54:11

I informed her that doctor John Mack

54:13

was deceased that he was struck down and

54:16

she did not know that whether

54:18

or not that would have been and then,

54:20

of course, when I'm in Virginia and I come

54:22

across these taped interviews, which

54:24

we include in the film of doctor John

54:26

Mack right after the incident happened.

54:28

The girls, I mean, weeks, maybe

54:30

a month, I don't know, but very recent.

54:33

documenting that. And I don't not as

54:35

far as I know, I don't know of anything

54:38

that was done with those either. Thanks.

54:40

Question from Tim.

54:42

Tim asks that there's a quite recent real released,

54:44

or it would appear that way, video clip in

54:46

Portuguese. of a gentleman holding

54:49

a file folder containing x rays

54:51

that bear resemblance to the event you're so

54:53

heavily investigated. Have you seen

54:55

these and can your state if the man

54:57

in his materials might be genuine?

54:59

So the doctor that we

55:01

spoke to, the x-ray technician, said

55:03

that was the first time in his career

55:06

that he was unable to even verify that

55:08

the photographs the x rays came out.

55:10

So

55:10

he never had his hands on those. So

55:12

if those were released by an x-ray technician, I

55:14

don't know who that would be.

55:17

Thanks for including me. I just met with that x-ray

55:19

technician last year. and he never

55:21

even got to see them. Thanks

55:23

for clearing that one up. Question

55:25

from Ryan Terry asks, has anyone reached

55:27

out to you from the US regarding what happened

55:30

once the being was taken by the US military?

55:33

No. I'm

55:33

waiting for that. But

55:36

that's one that you want to get to the halls of congress

55:38

and government utility. speak to some people.

55:40

Dying to know.

55:41

Dying to know. where

55:44

in fact, I feel like, you know, we'll we'll

55:46

go after it.

55:47

Believe me, I'll go after it.

55:49

James asked your

55:51

namesake. James said in a previous

55:53

podcast that, quote unquote, they

55:55

walk among us, can you elaborate

55:57

more on this? And what do you think the implications

55:59

of that are?

56:02

James would never say something like that.

56:05

It's James inception, no. Start to get a sore

56:08

head. So I

56:10

was quoting a meeting that I had

56:12

with a guy. I didn't say I believed that or didn't

56:14

believe it, but I met with with with Bob

56:17

Bigolo. Yep. We famously did

56:19

that on Australia sixty minutes. Wasn't

56:21

it?

56:22

Yeah. I think he will. He was on

56:24

sixty minutes here in the United States. I don't

56:26

know if he used the exact term. They're walking among

56:28

us, but I think he might have said they're here. But in any

56:30

case, that's what Robert

56:32

Bigelow told me. I'm

56:35

not saying and I'm so funny because I

56:37

I was recounting that meeting I had with

56:39

Robert Bigelow. I think it was, like, two thousand nine.

56:41

maybe two thousand ten, but probably two thousand

56:44

nine. I could look up the dates. But in

56:46

any case, he said that you

56:49

know, talked about the impact this story would have

56:51

on humanity, on religion,

56:54

on the economy being

56:56

quite significant. And then he said, you

56:58

know, that they're walking among us. And,

57:01

you know, I I'm not saying

57:03

I believe that at all. Is

57:05

it possible? I'd be the

57:07

first one to tell you that every time I've completely

57:10

dismissed the case, case in

57:12

point, Ruwa, case in point, Virginia, I've

57:14

been wrong. And so, you

57:17

know, the jury's still I have seen zero

57:19

evidence

57:20

to support that theory, but I'm

57:22

open to reviewing any evidence. But

57:25

I don't believe they're walking among us. That's

57:27

what I heard from someone that would appear to be

57:29

in a position to know.

57:31

And final question, a bit more

57:33

philosophical. A question from Timothy.

57:36

Can James share personal insight on

57:38

how better understanding the phenomenon?

57:41

a load better understanding of himself.

57:47

It's quite humbling.

57:50

It's

57:50

quite humbling.

57:52

I feel at times like

57:55

pretty insignificant.

57:57

Not

57:58

in a negative way, but

58:01

I feel like I'm surrounded by

58:03

this possibly, this

58:05

omnipresent intelligence

58:09

that has

58:12

the ability to kind of nuts

58:16

and bolts, but also psychic.

58:21

It

58:21

can manifest itself in in so many

58:23

different ways and shapes and forms.

58:28

It's kinda humbling. It's kinda

58:30

humbling. It

58:32

makes me feel like, you know,

58:35

This

58:35

universe is so huge and there's

58:37

so much going on and we're just

58:39

one tiny little piece of it.

58:41

feel kinda like a granule of sand. But

58:44

hey, I love the exploration. I love

58:46

asking questions. I'm

58:48

coming to terms at my age of fifty four

58:51

that I'm probably not gonna get a lot of answers

58:53

ultimately. other than clearly

58:55

the phenomenon is real and it's global and

58:57

that the government world governments know it's real

59:00

and that they're probably concerned about revealing

59:02

what they know because

59:03

it's gonna open up a floodgated questions

59:05

revealing their vulnerabilities and all the things that they

59:07

don't know. But

59:10

I'm gonna keep asking questions and keep digging

59:12

and, you know,

59:13

I enjoy very much what I do.

59:17

It's humbling. I

59:19

think that comes across in your work, you enjoy what

59:21

you do. And and you've got a little boy that you have

59:23

to leave for for length of period that time

59:25

don't you to go and do that. And that must be very hard.

59:27

And I can say that as a father And I've

59:29

got you on Facebook, and I can see those actions

59:32

you have and how much that means to you. So

59:34

it must mean lot for you to take yourself away,

59:36

to do that, to then go back, to Kibachi.

59:38

Hearing hearing my son when

59:40

I'm abroad,

59:42

you know, running, like, scared for my life

59:44

at times. not that often, but there have been

59:46

a handful of times where I was pretty freaked out.

59:49

Hearing him telling me, daddy, how much I miss you,

59:51

it's just it's really difficult. Yeah.

59:54

Really difficult. Like, I'd probably still

59:56

be in Virginia right now if wasn't a dad

59:58

because we got so close when we were

1:00:01

there. we were getting closer by the day,

1:00:03

but we still have boots on the ground. I'm still

1:00:05

very optimistic and new people that

1:00:07

have been hiding for the last eighteen

1:00:09

plus years are coming forward. off

1:00:12

offering their their help. And I'm

1:00:14

very confident that

1:00:17

further

1:00:18

Details of this photographic evidence

1:00:21

will be revealed in the very very near

1:00:23

future.

1:00:24

I look forward to that. In the coming days,

1:00:26

this is going to go out on the thirty first of October,

1:00:29

which we are due to the unclassified UAP

1:00:32

report by then from Congress, which I hear

1:00:34

as likely to be delayed

1:00:37

by a period of time, which is unknown

1:00:39

at the moment, but it seems quite likely from what

1:00:41

I'm hearing that's going to be delayed. So fingers

1:00:44

crossed. That comes out ASAP. We

1:00:46

get the extra evidence that gets you

1:00:48

some extra views and rents and

1:00:51

buys of of your product. because moment

1:00:53

of contact, fortunately, does deserve your time

1:00:55

and attention and also your money as

1:00:57

well. It's very easy these days to go and find

1:00:59

free copies online, but if you support

1:01:01

creators like James and lets them do what they

1:01:03

love and gets a great product out to you as

1:01:05

well without the buffeting and shankiness

1:01:07

and Yeah. Some people hey,

1:01:10

you know, I know some people look, if I

1:01:12

was independently wealthy, I would just give it away

1:01:14

for free. Believe me, I'm not in this for the money.

1:01:16

I never have been. until

1:01:18

the phenomenon that would have been made more flipping

1:01:20

burgers. But, you

1:01:22

know, if twelve years of research

1:01:24

of somebody else's time and a handful of other researchers,

1:01:27

is worth six bucks or twenty bucks.

1:01:30

Great. You know, if you can afford it.

1:01:32

If not, I you know, we're we're gonna do everything

1:01:34

that we can to provide this on

1:01:36

on different streaming platforms that'll be made

1:01:38

available for free. You

1:01:40

know?

1:01:41

the Also,

1:01:42

I was gonna say, if you wouldn't mind, if anyone's

1:01:45

wouldn't wouldn't mind taking the time

1:01:48

to to to rate the film on Amazon

1:01:50

or iTunes. It's tremendously

1:01:52

helpful for for us. Yeah.

1:01:54

Please do that for James. That would mean a

1:01:56

lot. And if you go out and buy this and we all buy

1:01:58

it, then maybe he'll have the

1:01:59

money to pay chuck Clark for that video kit,

1:02:02

Andy. And I've already

1:02:04

I've already got a guy lined up to borrow the two

1:02:06

hundred k, and he said to me, you better you

1:02:08

need I need a still frame of to get for

1:02:10

absolute hundred percent confirmation. I said, I

1:02:12

know that's in the the caveat of

1:02:15

when

1:02:15

this thing goes down. Is it Oh, that's

1:02:17

that's for the Virginia one. Yeah. Yes. But that's

1:02:19

that's coming out. We know that's we know you're gonna

1:02:21

get that one. We want the chart one as well, although that's

1:02:23

the AA site, isn't it for for the older

1:02:25

kids amongst us? James, just before

1:02:27

you go -- Okay. -- all the links to this for

1:02:29

people to purchase moment of contact will

1:02:31

be in the link for this podcast.

1:02:34

It said gini dot u s forward

1:02:36

slash moment of contact, and it'll

1:02:38

be there for you to click on and purchase. But just

1:02:40

finally, you want to make up all you One thing

1:02:43

I've people get upset that I don't mention this

1:02:45

because I I keep forgetting. But if you do

1:02:47

buy it, get

1:02:47

it from iTunes or Vimeo because for

1:02:49

the same price, you get, like, two hours of bonus

1:02:52

material. Obviously,

1:02:53

bonus content. Yep.

1:02:55

Yeah. So it's iTunes, Vimeo, and they

1:02:57

offer all this extra content

1:02:59

for no extra charge. Yes. If you bought

1:03:01

on another platform, what James is seeing is

1:03:03

going by on iTunes in front of you

1:03:05

as well, you can get the you can get the exact

1:03:07

content on top of it. And James people

1:03:10

will tell me if I don't ask, when is the phenomenon

1:03:12

to coming

1:03:12

out?

1:03:14

Well, I don't think I'd call it the phenomenon

1:03:17

to But we're

1:03:20

starting production on a new film

1:03:23

next week. Am

1:03:25

I crazy? I must be nuts? Absolutely

1:03:27

crazy. Yeah. because I felt bad asking that question

1:03:30

just given that you're literally in the the

1:03:32

wake of releasing your first one. But

1:03:34

I don't so much know because you're already going into

1:03:37

production on something else. Any clue as to what that's

1:03:39

gonna be on yet?

1:03:40

I'll go in after the evidence.

1:03:43

After the evidence. Cool. I like it. Oh, yeah.

1:03:45

Twelve seconds. I'll respond with that.

1:03:47

questions. Yeah. Look forward to that coming

1:03:49

out, James. As always, you've been very good with your time, so I'll let

1:03:51

you get back to what you're doing, and we look forward to speaking

1:03:53

to you again. Thank

1:03:55

you. Thanks for having me on.

1:03:56

That is all from last week's show.

1:03:59

Thank you very much for

1:03:59

listening. Please remember to leave the

1:04:02

podcast that a view on your chosen platform.

1:04:04

You can like treat and subscribe.

1:04:07

That would all be very much appreciated. The

1:04:09

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1:04:11

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1:04:13

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1:04:16

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well. Please get in touch on Twitter,

1:04:20

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1:04:23

of course, on Twitter. It's at UF4UAPAM

1:04:27

And again, folks, as always, keep looking

1:04:29

up. You don't know you

1:04:30

may see.

1:04:40

wasn't that picked back enough quite a silver,

1:04:42

but like a hot cap design, a gel serum,

1:04:44

a little baroque and quite steam, like

1:04:46

an alice was play bass for the apartment. The

1:04:49

little pluckers are right at the top. I went home when

1:04:51

I shoved out those tiny basses in this. But

1:04:53

don't think he expects me to see his ass, but

1:04:55

I'd have some champagne.

1:05:06

medicine game is beautiful on meta.

1:05:08

I can't imagine how I could've been any better

1:05:10

than just the top of stairs in there. It was

1:05:12

like your way

1:05:23

to jump back and nearly kissed myself

1:05:25

and I climbed out the window and after the house

1:05:27

and I looked in my cabinet with something on

1:05:30

my head and everything was sure. Oh,

1:05:32

that's not noise. I thought this was noise. I

1:05:34

thought it was in Germany. I thought it was, like, twice

1:05:36

it. So was my problem. So I think I just

1:05:38

scare me. And I don't know that that that doesn't

1:05:40

really scare

1:06:07

To remain serious, to open your mind,

1:06:09

and consider your heart, extended time,

1:06:11

consider your space, consider your life,

1:06:14

consider It

1:06:38

wasn't a dreamt egg and not quite a sauce

1:08:18

It wasn't a tic tac and that's quite a

1:08:20

salt or more like a hot have to design my

1:08:22

jumps or a little baroque and quite steamed.

1:08:24

Like, Alice's play bass for the bottom line.

1:08:27

The little fuckers are right up. That

1:08:29

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1:08:29

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