0:01

Hello, welcome to That's

0:01

Burlesque Podcast. You're joined

0:04

by myself Curly Chaos as ever,

0:04

your host, and we have a

0:07

wonderful guest with us today.

0:07

The incredible Mark Antony:

0:11

boylesque, burlesque, activist,

0:11

documentes?

0:16

And more words.

0:20

I'm really good at intros.

0:22

Hello.

0:23

You all right

0:25

I'm Good. Okay.

0:27

How's your lockdown

0:27

going? You all right? Are you

0:31

surviving?

0:32

Just about. I feel like

0:32

I've reached the stage, if there

0:36

is a stage of grief that's just

0:36

like utterly fed up. You know;

0:41

denial, anger, and I'm just

0:41

like... just... eh... lethargy.

0:46

Yeah, we were talking

0:46

about that before I recorded.

0:49

That feeling of just like... how

0:49

are we so tired, not doing

0:53

anything?

0:54

It's bizarre.

0:56

I say that though. You're

0:56

like rhinestone extraordinaire.

0:59

Well, I've been doing that

0:59

in the past few days. But even

1:01

that is just like, the thought

1:01

of having to get up and walk

1:04

over to a shelf that is

1:04

literally two metres away, and

1:07

pick up a pencil and some glue

1:07

has just at times been just too

1:11

much. So I've can't possibly do

1:11

that. But it's like, up and

1:15

down. I try and grasp this

1:15

energy spurts when they come and

1:18

make the most of them and then

1:18

just return to being depressed

1:21

on the sofa until it happens again.

1:24

And I think that's okay.

1:24

Pandemic! It's rough. You know

1:28

what I mean? Sometimes I think

1:28

back to the plague times, and I

1:33

think about... imagine those

1:33

people being like, "I'm not

1:37

doing enough" and "I'm not doing

1:37

enough self care". They like

1:41

lost limbs and shit. I mean,

1:41

they weren't sat there berating

1:46

themselves.

1:48

No, I guess not. Just just

1:48

huffing herbs and stuff that

1:52

they thought would cure them. So

1:52

I mean, I keep burning wax

1:55

melts. So I guess that's my equivalent. [laughs]

1:58

Have we have we all

1:58

turned to wax melts, this is a

2:01

new thing now?

2:02

It's a thing even though

2:02

it's bizarre, because it is

2:04

essentially just adding another

2:04

step to a scented candle.

2:08

[laughs]

2:08

Like you could just have

2:08

the scented candle but instead

2:11

you're burning a candle to burn

2:11

some wax that is scented.

2:14

And you know what's funny

2:14

is I don't understand how to get

2:17

rid of, you know, when you stop

2:17

burning it and then you just get

2:20

the big block of wax at the top

2:20

of the candle burner. Then I was

2:25

like "I could turn this into a

2:25

candle".

2:30

[Laughs] Yeah, it's just

2:30

very much over complicating what

2:33

is quite a simple concept,

2:33

really, the candle, and then as

2:36

a lot of waste to get rid of and

2:36

it makes no sense. But for some

2:40

reason, just getting those

2:40

little blocks of wax melts,

2:43

brings inordinate amounts of joy

2:43

to my day

2:46

But they can come in

2:46

different shapes too. Like my

2:49

mate does, like tombstone ones.

2:49

And I'm like, "Yes, I'll have a

2:53

tombstone wax melt please. That

2:53

smells like patchouli. Great."

3:00

Well, you are rhinestoning and

3:00

it's great. And I'm representing

3:05

the wonderful business that is

3:05

Marked and Snatch. Which by the

3:07

way is the genius title to your

3:07

business.

3:12

I think that was a Lilly

3:12

invention that.

3:15

You could have taken full credit for it there I love that you didn't though.

3:17

I could have, but she's in

3:17

the next room. So should

3:21

probably come storming in. [Laughs]

3:22

I was about to say, actually, I take that back your definitely couldn't have taken

3:24

the credit.

3:26

No, all her. That is her

3:26

idea that name. But yeah, it

3:31

works really well. I think

3:31

people often don't get it.

3:33

They're like "why is is called

3:33

Marked and Snatched?". Thank you

3:36

for being on our level.

3:37

[Laughs] So welcome.

3:37

Marked and Snatched it's great.

3:42

It's one of my favourite

3:42

rhinestoning businesses as you

3:45

know, since I keep trying to

3:45

give you shit to do.

3:49

I always feel bad posting

3:49

stuff cuz I'm like...

3:52

don't

3:53

Oh my god. Don't even!

3:55

Your bank accounts like "Oooooh..."

3:57

Yeah, honestly, my bank

3:57

account every time you post my

4:00

bank account goes. "Yeah? I see

4:00

you. You think you get away with

4:06

it? Universal Credit are paying

4:06

you to buy rhinestoned shit, are

4:10

they?" And I'm like, "Yeah, yes."

4:13

That's I mean, it doesn't say it's not

4:14

for that.

4:16

I read the government

4:16

website. It doesn't say that.

4:18

I mean, arguably more

4:18

useful than wax melts, so...

4:22

Careful. I'll start

4:22

sending you wax melts to

4:24

rhinestone.

4:25

I mean, you just end up with a puddle with rhinestones in it.

4:27

Then that's a gift free

4:27

rhinestones

4:30

A rhinestone lump. Okay,

4:30

well, I'll look into that as our

4:34

next venture.

4:34

Great. Thanks so much.

4:34

How is that going? Because what

4:38

have you got in the shop at the

4:38

moment? We had baubles for

4:40

Christmas, which was amazing.

4:40

And I've got mine hanging on my

4:43

window sill.

4:45

we Yeah, the bubbles were good.

4:45

We're just about to release a

4:50

range of jewellery. So kinda

4:50

like drag and burlesque aimed

4:55

kind of level like everything's

4:55

stupidly big, but it's all kind

4:58

of acrylic jewellery. Fully

4:58

rhinestoned looks very sparkly

5:02

and snazzy. So we should be

5:02

releasing that in the next

5:05

couple of days, which is

5:05

exciting. We take commissions

5:09

all the time.

5:10

And the commissions are

5:10

wonderful and the rhinestones

5:14

are beautiful and myself and

5:14

Fouf had a nice rhinestoned

5:20

experience from Marked and

5:20

Snatched, and we were both very

5:25

excited. You should have seen our little faces when we opened up our packages. We were like,

5:27

"Look! Sparkly." So now we can

5:32

be matching apples and

5:32

pineapples, which I'm very

5:35

excited about. So one thing I

5:35

did want to talk about was the

5:39

documentary that you were a part

5:39

of. That's out now, is it not?

5:44

Or was that something different?

5:44

Yeah, it is. That is the same

5:46

one, isn't it?

5:47

Yes, it's out in a variety

5:47

of forms. It was released by

5:53

HuffPost, I wrote an article and

5:53

they released the video, like a

5:58

five minute version of the film

5:58

with that. There's a full 15

6:01

minute edit on the HuffPost's

6:01

YouTube. So that's kind of the

6:06

main edit, but then there'll be

6:06

another edit, which the

6:09

filmmaker is hoping to enter

6:09

into short film festivals.

6:13

Because unfortunately, it's in

6:13

the film you see me do my act to

6:17

Amadeus by Falco. And

6:17

wefundraised so we could get the

6:22

rights to that, but I HuffPost

6:22

we're a bit scared still putting

6:26

it in. So it's not actually in

6:26

the Huffpost one, but it will be

6:29

in... the filmmaker retained the

6:29

rights to the original thing. So

6:33

it the edit that she produces

6:33

will be with the full song and

6:37

everything.

6:38

That's amazing. Yeah,

6:38

it's a bit of a touchy one,

6:41

isn't it, credits and rights and

6:41

all that good stuff. But I was

6:45

really happy and felt comfort

6:45

somehow when you... because you

6:52

were fundraising for the project

6:52

and people people donated, you

6:57

know what I mean?

6:58

it

6:59

Yeah, I was surprised by

6:59

how mupportive people were. And

7:04

it was really humbling to have

7:04

that kind of support. Epecially

7:08

because the vast majority of it

7:08

came from, the cabaret and

7:11

burlesque community and stuff.

7:11

So yeah, it felt really nice to

7:15

find something that was from the

7:15

community and for the community

7:20

as well. And that's the main

7:20

focus of it is my experience

7:24

performing in this cabaret and

7:24

burlesque and stuff as well as

7:27

all the trans shizz.

7:29

the trip

7:31

Can we talk trans shizz

7:31

for a while? For a minute? I

7:36

like trans shizz. It's my

7:36

favourite shizz. Because I'll

7:41

be honest, I didn't really

7:41

understand what trans was for a

7:45

long time. And and it was only

7:45

because it had never been a part

7:49

of my world, really. And I think

7:49

it's because it was never in

7:53

mainstream media. And it was

7:53

never talked about and people

7:56

were scared to come forward. And

7:56

you know, the media are

7:59

assholes. Not all of them, but a

7:59

lot of them. And so my education

8:03

for the last two years has been

8:03

mind blowing and eye opening.

8:09

And I can only thank some of my

8:09

trans friends for being open to

8:14

me going, "Guys? There's

8:14

something I don't quite

8:18

understand." Explain this to me." And

8:20

they're like, "Sure". I love

8:20

[Laughs] you. Thank you so much. And I

8:23

sit there with my pen and paper.

8:25

Right? Oh, this makes much more

8:25

sense. All right, good. Yeah,

8:30

no, because I made mistakes. I'm

8:30

not I'm human. But you know,

8:36

what was? Why was it important

8:36

for you to make the documentary?

8:38

I know, obviously, people wanted

8:38

it. But for you what was

8:41

important about it for you?

8:43

Well, it was a weird one,

8:43

because it kind of just sprung

8:45

up very spontaneously. It wasn't

8:45

very long in the planning, I got

8:49

contacted by the filmmaker,

8:49

Hannah Compdon. She just said

8:53

she was looking into making a

8:53

documentary about drag kings.

8:55

And because she was interested

8:55

in the experience of trans

8:58

masculine people, and then she

8:58

had a friend of hers was a drag

9:03

king and she thought that was a

9:03

really good window to look at it

9:05

from because the vast majority

9:05

of drag kings are trans

9:08

masculine, non binary. So she

9:08

rang me to talk about that. And

9:12

I said, "Well, I won't be available for a little while, because I'm actually going into

9:14

surgery in two days." And she

9:17

was "Oh, okay, well, maybe we

9:17

could film that." And then

9:20

that's kind of how it came

9:20

about. So it was literally like

9:22

a two day turnaround of me

9:22

contacting a hospital and being

9:25

like, "Hey, can I bring a film

9:25

crew?"

9:30

So for me, it was like, "Okay,

9:30

yeah, this is a great

9:33

opportunity to document this

9:33

process for myself." Because

9:39

it's strange like, watching it

9:39

back. It helps me remember and

9:43

process emotions that I was

9:43

going through, because it was a

9:47

very drastic change to my body.

9:47

It was a big surgery and it was

9:50

stressful, and it was a long

9:50

recovery. And all of that did

9:53

take an emotional toll as happy

9:53

as I was with the change, it was

9:57

still like seeing huge scars

9:57

appear on your body and

10:01

recovering from quite major

10:01

trauma to it. So being able to

10:04

watch it back and seeing the

10:04

moment where the bandages came

10:07

off from another perspective was

10:07

quite incredible. And something

10:11

that most people don't get to

10:11

reflect in that way. And then

10:15

also, it occurred to me that the

10:15

way I'd done research about the

10:19

surgery and found most of my

10:19

information was through word of

10:23

mouth, from other trans people

10:23

through Facebook groups, through

10:26

Tumblr threads and stuff, but

10:26

there wasn't... you have to be a

10:29

detective and find that

10:29

information for yourself. It's

10:32

quite hard to know, when you

10:32

think, "Okay, I want top

10:35

surgery," but there's like 10

10:35

different procedures, there's

10:39

however many surgeons and it

10:39

costs this much. And the, the

10:43

process is quite complicated. So

10:43

I thought, well, if I had this

10:48

experience of mine, even though

10:48

it's just one isolated

10:50

experience, and obviously a

10:50

privileged one, in that it was a

10:53

private surgeon, would be

10:53

useful, potentially, for people

10:58

going through the same thing.

10:58

And even people who don't

11:01

identify as trans and don't

11:01

understand the process to be

11:04

able to see that quite

11:04

intimately, I thought would was

11:07

kind of a valuable legacy to

11:07

have.

11:11

Yeah, and I feel

11:11

privileged that you're sharing

11:15

that with me and the podcast

11:15

listeners, you know, because you

11:20

did something there that was...

11:20

I was watching... I haven't

11:26

watched the whole thing yet. Because I really want to sit down and give it my attention.

11:28

And I've watched kind of bits of

11:33

it, and some of the bits that

11:33

you shared, and some of the bits

11:35

that HuffPost shared as well.

11:35

And it kept occurring to me

11:39

where I sat there and I thought,

11:39

"I wonder how Mark is feeling."

11:44

I was like, "I wonder what all

11:44

the emotion... I wonder... you

11:48

grow up as a certain kind of

11:48

kid. And you grow up as a as a

11:52

certain kind of human, looked at

11:52

as a certain kind of human, and

11:56

then to kind of become something

11:56

that is so is kind of You. "This

12:01

is who I am. This is who I

12:01

identify as." And then to be

12:04

able to become that. I kept like

12:04

thinking about you. And I kept

12:08

thinking, I wonder what joys are

12:08

there and what sadness is there

12:12

and what overwhelming happiness

12:12

is there? But also what fear is

12:14

there? And I remember, I went

12:14

through a lot. [laughs]

12:18

[laughs]

12:21

But I remember seeing

12:21

you, it wasn't it wasn't very

12:23

long after you'd had the

12:23

surgery, at Break A Lash.

12:26

Yeah.

12:27

I don't know, you seem

12:27

happy and content. You said at

12:30

the time, you were quite sore

12:30

still. But yeah, I wondered kind

12:34

of how you feeling now, I guess,

12:34

if that's okay to talk about.

12:39

I'm feel good about it.

12:39

Now it's almost like I still get

12:44

that euphoria when I catch

12:44

myself in the mirror or there's

12:47

moments of sort of realising.

12:47

But I think what's really great

12:52

about the way I feel now is that

12:52

I just, it's something I don't

12:54

think about anymore. It's just

12:54

like, this is a part of my body,

12:57

which used to be a significant

12:57

part of my day and a constant

13:02

inconvenience and sort of

13:02

discomfort. But now it can just

13:05

be what it's supposed to be,

13:05

which is just a part of my body.

13:08

It's just, I can continue living

13:08

my life without thinking about

13:11

on a regular basis, which is

13:11

kind of when you're feeling

13:14

dysphoric, you kind of... you

13:14

get so far into it that you

13:17

forgot what's normal. And like,

13:17

obviously, people have hang ups

13:22

about their body. But I think

13:22

dysphoria is so intense that you

13:26

almost can't imagine not feeling

13:26

that way. Especially when it's

13:31

so difficult to access surgery

13:31

and treatment and stuff you kind

13:34

of don't allow yourself to

13:34

imagine what it would be like,

13:36

and then just getting to a state

13:36

where you can just get up in the

13:39

morning and put on a Tshirt and

13:39

get on with your day. You're

13:41

like, "Oh, it was so messed up

13:41

that I couldn't do this before."

13:48

So yeah, that is really nice. I

13:48

feel like I've come to a good

13:51

like mellow, now. That's not...

13:51

immediately post surgery it was

13:56

a lot of euphoria and stress

13:56

about healing and getting back

14:00

to work and then processing

14:00

having had major surgery and

14:04

everything like that, and how

14:04

that changes relationships or

14:07

whatever. But now it's just kind

14:07

of normal. I'm doing a sort of

14:12

gesture at the screen of just

14:12

just a hand kind of casually

14:15

floating along. To illustrate

14:18

Yeah. I guess I didn't

14:18

even think about the fact that

14:22

for you now it feels normal.

14:24

Yeah.

14:25

This is normal for you.

14:25

This is "yes, this is the

14:28

normal." The other stuff was

14:28

bizarre. And now this is the

14:31

normal.

14:31

Exactly. Looking at huge

14:31

scars going across my chest

14:35

feels more natural to me than

14:35

what was there before.

14:38

Yeah, absolutely. And I

14:38

can speak for me and I can speak

14:42

for a bunch of other people that

14:42

were unbelievably happy for you.

14:46

And yeah, you posted, you posted

14:46

some great stuff or pictures of

14:51

yourself on Instagram. And we're

14:51

all like "Yes!" [makes excited

14:56

noises]

14:56

I'm not wearing a shirt

14:56

again.

15:00

Well, that seems dull.

15:03

I mean it's too cold right

15:03

now. But as soon as temperatures

15:05

get above like good 12 degrees,

15:05

it's gone.

15:09

Done. That's it.

15:10

I don't need to wear a shirt.

15:13

See down the supermarket?

15:13

"Where's your shirt?" "No! it's

15:18

12.5 degrees."

15:20

And that's why I'm not wearing a shirt. [sighs] I don't know about you,

15:24

but I miss being naked on stage.

15:28

Yeah. No One applauds you when

15:28

you get naked in your own home.

15:33

I mean, some people might. But

15:33

it's, you don't get that that

15:36

validation.

15:38

That's true, although

15:38

sometimes when I get naked, and

15:43

Tom will be talking to me and

15:43

then I'll like take my top off

15:46

to like change or like, take my

15:46

towel off. And I can definitely

15:49

tell that he's stopped talking.

15:49

Like he'll stop mid sentence.

15:53

And it's kind of like an

15:53

applause. I'm like, "You're

15:56

looking at me, aren't you?" And

15:56

he's like, "Yep."

15:58

Yeah, there's something

15:58

about I don't know, that's maybe

16:01

partly why I'm feeling so

16:01

lethargic is being used to

16:05

before the ups and down

16:05

adrenaline rushes of being on

16:08

stage regularly. I miss the

16:08

stress of trying to get to a gig

16:12

and trying to get ready and

16:12

stage fright nerves before you

16:15

go on. And then the huge hire

16:15

that comes after it. That's a

16:17

huge part of my life. And now

16:17

the energy of my life has

16:20

completely changed. So it's gone

16:20

from kind of an exciting range

16:25

of ups and downs, to just sort

16:25

of a smaller range. boredom and

16:30

depression. [Laughs] Occasional

16:30

happiness and joy, still.

16:34

I mean, sure. A wig

16:34

arrived the other day that I

16:39

bought, and it's the biggest wig

16:39

I've ever bought in my whole

16:43

life. And it arrived, and I

16:43

opened it, and I got out of the

16:45

box, and I was just in the middle of my room. And I was like, "What do I do this now?

16:47

Who am I gonna show?" Like I was

16:52

like, pop it on and pop down to

16:52

shops. Where am I going to wear

16:58

this? It's all right. It'll all

16:58

come again. It'll be back. It's

17:03

okay. We've saved the arts. I

17:03

don't care what anyone says.

17:07

You can't get rid of us.

17:08

Absolutely not. We're

17:08

very powerful humans. We're

17:12

glittery, but we're powerful.

17:12

Thank you so much for your time

17:16

and energy. So do you have

17:16

anything speaking of the future,

17:22

because I'm all about the

17:22

future. I'm all about being

17:24

like, we're going to get out of this. And then it's going to be fun. Do you have any surprises

17:26

for us? Do you have... because

17:33

obviously, you've got... Lead me

17:33

through, a second, your acts

17:37

because I think sometimes I

17:37

merged two acts of yours

17:40

together. And then when I see

17:40

one of them, I'm like, "Wait,

17:43

why does this not happen in this

17:43

act?" and they're like "It's not

17:45

the same act, Curly." And I'm like, "Oh."

17:47

[Laughs] So my main ones

17:47

are I guess, Amadeus, which is a

17:54

take on like Mozart. Sometimes I

17:54

play the cello.

17:58

That is the same act fine.

18:00

Yeah, I have one classical

18:00

musician act. And there's two

18:04

versions of that one when I play

18:04

the cello and one where I don't

18:08

for logistical reasons. The

18:08

cello is not an easy instrument

18:12

to transport. Yeah, so there's

18:12

that one. And then my other main

18:15

one is my Jean Paul Gaultier

18:15

sailor inspired act. So there's

18:20

my two main boylesque ones. And

18:20

then I've got another boylesque

18:24

one about misgendering and being

18:24

trans, that one's a bit more

18:27

like emotional, and a teaching

18:27

moment. I quite often pull that

18:32

out if I'm performing for a

18:32

predominantly straight audience.

18:35

So they'll clap me in tell me

18:35

how brave I am. [Laughs] And

18:40

also educate them as well.

18:40

That's important. There's a few

18:45

others I do. But those are the

18:45

main three I do. And then that's

18:48

more kind of like, the boylesque

18:48

side of things. I've got other

18:51

sort of lip synching drag stuff.

18:51

And then when I'm hosting, I

18:54

tend to sing so depends where I

18:54

am and what they want.

18:57

Yeah, because I think I

18:57

was like, "No, the Amadeus one

19:00

is definitely where you play the

19:00

cello." And I like how you say

19:04

logistics and in my head, I go,

19:04

wherever you can be bothered to

19:08

bring the cello to and where you

19:08

can't be bothered to bring the

19:10

cello to.

19:11

Sort of. Well, if it

19:11

involves a lot of sound teching.

19:17

Sometimes, some venues are very

19:17

much like, especially when

19:21

you're doing a drag show, it's

19:21

like you turn up, the lights are

19:25

either on or they're off, and

19:25

you can plug one thing in. And

19:29

that's it. So sometimes it's

19:29

just not feasible to have a live

19:33

acoustic instrument. Yeah, I do

19:33

enjoy being able to take places

19:39

and play it because I think it

19:39

combines things I used to learn

19:43

when I was younger, learning the

19:43

cello and classical music, and

19:45

that wasn't something I ever

19:45

thought I'd be able to integrate

19:47

into stripping and drag so to be

19:47

able to do that is kind of

19:52

combining several of my

19:52

interests and I think it's

19:55

interesting for people to see

19:55

classical music in that setting.

19:57

It's not often a thing really.

19:59

I agree, I love seeing

19:59

something a bit different in

20:02

people's acts, it's my

20:02

favourite. Especially musical

20:05

instruments, I get very excited

20:05

when I think someone's about to

20:08

play a musical instrument. I

20:08

keep thinking I'm gonna get my

20:10

trumpet out again.

20:13

Do it!

20:14

Yeah, I don't think my neighbours would be happy about it.

20:17

Things are a little bit

20:17

emotionally intense right now. I

20:19

feel like something like a

20:19

trumpet next door can tip

20:21

someone over the edge.

20:22

I think so too,

20:22

especially especially a trumpet

20:25

because sometimes you get to

20:25

those high notes. And it can be

20:29

a one. I just go to the park. I

20:29

get that. But also, I've thought

20:33

about getting the saxophone out

20:33

and, you know, doing some sort

20:37

of act to Baker Street, you know?

20:39

Yeah, I think just blast

20:39

the tune to Careless Whisper

20:43

throughout the day. Who can get

20:43

mad at that?

20:47

I don't know, you've not met my neighbor's

20:49

A bit of Spandau Ballet.

20:49

All the '80s saxophone solos.

20:53

Who doesn't enjoy 80

20:53

saxophone solos? It's all I'm

20:56

saying.

20:57

You don't get enough

20:57

saxophone solos in modern music.

21:00

[Sighs] I want some

21:00

hardcore hip hop with a

21:05

saxophone solo. That's what I

21:05

want.

21:09

I mean, there's a gap in

21:09

the market probably.

21:13

I think there's a reason

21:13

for that. [Laughs] So yeah, when

21:16

I first started watching, when I

21:16

first saw you perform, I think I

21:20

saw Amadeus, and then I didn't

21:20

see you perform for a while,

21:23

because for various reasons, we

21:23

weren't at the same venue...

21:26

And you hated it!

21:27

That's why I was like,

21:27

"Fuck this shit. Ah, look at me

21:32

playing the cello." Anyone could

21:32

do that. [Laughs]

21:38

[Laughs]

21:38

That I saw your sailor

21:38

act. And halfway through the

21:41

sailor act, I was like, "At what

21:41

point just the cello happen?" As

21:47

they were like "Wrong act, Curly."

21:51

There's only so many times

21:51

you can try out a novelty item

21:53

before people are like, "Well,

21:53

he's playing the fucking cello

21:56

again.

21:57

I disagree, personally. I

21:57

think in every act you now do

22:02

are whipser "Where's the cello?"

22:06

I mean, people don't

22:06

always think that I'm actually

22:08

playing it. I was doing the Mr.

22:08

Boylesque competition. Misti

22:12

Vine was one of the judges, who

22:12

is one of my favourite people

22:14

ever, and halfway through my act

22:14

she just goes, "Oh, my God, he's

22:17

playing it." She thought I was just

22:19

miming the cello. You think I've

22:19

[Laughs] bought a cello and dragged it

22:24

here just for the purposes of

22:27

convincingly miming a song? I

22:27

really enjoyed that.

22:31

It would have been dedication. That's for damn sure.

22:33

Yeah. I mean, I think I

22:33

would judge a person who buys a

22:37

cello for the purposes of miming it.

22:39

Yeah. But that's

22:39

sometimes like when I have seen

22:42

a couple of people, you know,

22:42

and I've joked about it with

22:45

them, where they kind of know

22:45

how much time they've spent

22:48

making this amazing, huge prop

22:48

that they lug everywhere. And I

22:52

was like that goddamn prop was

22:52

on stage for two and a half

22:55

seconds.

22:55

Oh, yeah.

22:56

And I helped you bring it

22:56

in the door!

22:58

It'ss quite a classic,

22:58

like... sometimes props are

23:03

great, and they're very

23:03

necessary and integral to an

23:05

act. But sometimes they can be a

23:05

sign of someone who's quite new

23:09

to performing. Because I think

23:09

when you're new to performing,

23:11

you have this sense that like,

23:11

"I'm not enough by myself. So I

23:14

need to fill the stage with

23:14

other things that I can use to

23:17

distract people from me." So

23:17

then, I used to stage manager a

23:22

lot as well. So quite often,

23:22

when you get new acts, they'd be

23:24

like, "Right, so I need a chair

23:24

placed to stage right, and then

23:26

I need five shoes arranged in

23:26

this very particular order, I'm

23:30

going to do five costume changes

23:30

within the first 45 seconds, I'm

23:33

going to need you to come on

23:33

each time with the costume, and

23:35

then you need to bring out the hoops and the beach ball." [Laughs] You're fine, you don't

23:39

need this stuff.

23:42

Yeah, it's okay.

23:44

Unless it's a martini

23:44

glass, in which case, I'm always

23:47

I love the martini glass.

23:47

But also because... who's the

23:47

here for that. performer that does it? So, I

23:52

interviewed last week, Miss

23:56

Miranda and also Holly-Anne

23:56

Devlin, and they've got a new...

24:02

they're in New York and they

24:02

have a new Speakeasy show.

24:07

International.

24:08

Oh, the podcast went

24:08

international. We have more

24:12

listeners in Vegas and New York

24:12

than we do here.

24:15

Wow.

24:16

I know!

24:16

Woo!

24:18

But they have a whiskey

24:18

glass. It's a giant whiskey

24:22

glass and they do an act in a

24:22

giant whiskey glass. And that's

24:27

quite something.

24:29

Have you seen my favourite

24:29

martini glass act, it's Velma

24:32

von Bonbon. Who just has a

24:32

ridiculously tiny martini glass

24:37

at the top of a really high pole

24:37

and a whole act of her trying to

24:39

get into it. And it's the funniest thing.

24:42

I think it was one of the

24:42

first Martini acts I've ever

24:45

seen. And I was like, "Why are

24:45

they...? This is great!" I love

24:49

a comedy act.

24:50

I love it.

24:51

It's my favourite. But,

24:51

you know, I like that you said

24:57

that about newcomers, because I

24:57

remember the first act I ever

25:00

did. And I was rehearsing it

25:00

with a chair. And Evelyn, bless

25:06

her soul, was like, "Get rid of

25:06

the damn chair!" And I was like,

25:09

"No, I need it." And she was

25:09

like, "No, you don't, you're

25:15

fine by yourself." And I was

25:15

like, "No, give me my chair

25:19

back." I mean, she won in the

25:19

end. And I did the act without

25:25

the chair. But you're right. And

25:25

you know, you are enough. Unless

25:28

it's a great chair act, in which

25:28

case rock on with a chair.

25:31

Yeah, there's a time and a

25:31

place for props. But, you know,

25:35

the prop, you should be using

25:35

the prop to enhance your act as

25:38

opposed to the act being about

25:38

the prop. But I totally get why,

25:43

when you first get on stage it's

25:43

terrifying. So knowing that, at

25:45

some point I can hide behind

25:45

this chair is quite a comforting

25:49

thing to have. But it's a case

25:49

of building up confidence to

25:52

know that you are enough by yourself.

25:55

And I think there's a

25:55

fear to of your act making

25:59

sense. I think props are added

25:59

so that your act makes sense. So

26:03

people are like, I don't know if

26:03

people understand what I'm doing

26:07

in this storyline. And so I'm

26:07

going to add a prop at every

26:10

point so that people get what's

26:10

happening. Because I know, some

26:14

people can't don't rely on their

26:14

acting because they're not

26:16

trained actors, or they don't

26:16

rely on their dance abilities,

26:18

because they're not trained

26:18

dancers. And I'm like, "Yes, but

26:21

there are enough people out here

26:21

that we're happy to do workshops

26:24

with you, that will make you

26:24

feel more confident in your

26:27

dance ability or your acting

26:27

abilities so that you don't..."

26:31

Yeah, it's using the best

26:31

way to tell the story you want

26:35

to tell basically. And that

26:35

doesn't always mean show and

26:38

tell. There are more creative

26:38

things you can do.

26:41

And it's hard.

26:41

I don't want to be down on props, because I am a person who lugs a cello to gigs. So I can

26:43

judge no one

26:48

I lug a giant rubber duck

26:48

to gigs, so... But I did now

26:52

turn that into a headdress so

26:52

that I no longer have it as a

26:55

prop. So I can be like, "Sit on

26:55

my damn head!" and be done with

26:59

it.

27:00

Sounds a lot more practical.

27:01

I was gonna watch something else then and completely blanked because a

27:03

parakeet ended up in the tree.

27:07

And I was like, "Ooooh."

27:09

I would completely be distracted by that.

27:11

Oh, no, that's fine.

27:11

It's all good. I like your green

27:15

shirt. By the way. I'm really

27:15

digging it

27:17

It's a cardigan. A

27:17

designer called Alec Bizby,

27:22

who's a small designer based in

27:22

London and he makes the comfiest

27:26

clothing.

27:27

It's a cardigan.

27:29

Yeah, love a cardy.

27:30

Ah, me too. Okay, Tom,

27:30

note the designer. And then

27:39

instead of linking it if you

27:39

could put it in the obvious list

27:42

that you have of things to get

27:42

me for birthdays, anniversaries,

27:46

Christmas? Note it. Thank you so

27:46

much. Okay, great. Thanks. Babe.

27:51

Appreciate that. What is next

27:51

for you, Mark? I want to know

27:56

what your hopes, dreams, plans

27:56

are? Where do you want to be?

27:59

What do you want to do? Give me

27:59

your most outlandish thing ever.

28:03

Outlandish?

28:03

I mean, it doesn't have to be.

28:04

You mean, taking my

28:04

clothes off on stage is not

28:07

outlandish enough for you? With

28:07

a cello?

28:10

It's not, so if we could get things that are?

28:11

In the realm of our

28:11

universe, that's quite normal.

28:15

Well, it's weird, because we're

28:15

in this weird parallel universe

28:18

where everything's just paused.

28:18

Before the lockdown happened. I

28:22

was planning my first solo show.

28:22

So I had two of those planned.

28:22

I mean, when you say "own

28:22

shows", I know solo means on

28:27

But obviously, that didn't

28:27

happen. So I'd like to get that

28:31

on on the go again. And yeah,

28:31

that was sort of some stuff in

28:35

the works to do with touring

28:35

boylesque shows and stuff like

28:40

that. So that was exciting stuff

28:40

about to happen. So I'm hoping

28:43

that that comes back. But yeah,

28:43

I would like to start looking

28:47

into having my own shows and

28:47

stuff.

28:54

your own. But...

28:59

Shows that's I host with

28:59

my favourite people in. And I

29:03

get to say how amazing they are,

29:03

how much I love them. And then

29:05

they get to do their dazzling,

29:05

fantastic thing. And I get to

29:08

have a 5% of credit for it

29:08

because my face is on the

29:12

poster. [Laughs]

29:14

Is it like Mark and Friends?

29:16

Yeah, I love that because

29:16

I've been performing for four

29:21

and a half, five years now. And

29:21

a lot of that has kind of been

29:25

straddling cabaret, burlesque

29:25

and drag. So I've kind of gotten

29:29

to know such a wide range of

29:29

amazing, talented people that I

29:34

wish those worlds were a bit

29:34

more joined. There's there's a

29:38

there is some crossover. But I

29:38

think the best way for the whole

29:42

cabaret scene to survive is for

29:42

different communities within

29:45

that to work together. And the

29:45

best shows that I've seen are

29:48

ones where you've got drag, and

29:48

circus, and cabaret, and

29:50

burlesque, and all that stuff

29:50

combined. So we'd love to bring

29:54

that together with an element

29:54

that is missing, I think from a

29:58

lot of cabaret, which is drag

29:58

kings. And fab trans masculine

30:02

performers, who I think get the

30:02

short straw quite a lot.

30:05

I would agree with that.

30:05

And I think sometimes it's the

30:10

thing where... [sighs] I going

30:10

to have a tiny rant, in the

30:16

tiniest ranty way ever.

30:18

[Laughs] Rant away.

30:19

Where sometimes, as I'm

30:19

producing my second show at the

30:24

moment, which is going to be

30:24

online - Chaos Cabaret Does

30:26

Culture for St. Paddy's Day,

30:26

celebrating the Irish and

30:29

celebrating lots of other

30:29

people's cultures. Waving the

30:33

flags!

30:34

That is really cool.

30:35

But it's hard because

30:35

sometimes, especially if it's

30:38

open casting, you know, the

30:38

applications you might want

30:42

don't always come in, you know?

30:42

And then it's that thing of

30:46

Okay, well, theydidn't apply

30:46

didn't apply for my show. So I

30:51

can't you know, you get to that

30:51

argument of at what point is it

30:56

somebody else's responsibility,

30:56

and at what point is producer's

30:59

responsibility to go, "Well, no,

30:59

I would like to represent and so

31:03

I need to go and hunt, and I

31:03

need to go and do my research".

31:07

Hunting was a bad word there.

31:07

I'm not out here trying to hunt

31:12

for people. You know, you go out

31:12

and do your research and ask

31:16

around and be like, "Do you

31:16

have?" And for me, for example,

31:20

some people that I want to show

31:20

just don't have a cultural

31:24

heritage act. They're just like,

31:24

Oh, it's just not the theme for

31:27

me. And I'm like, "Cool, but next time, yeah?"

31:33

Yeah, it's definitely a

31:33

thing that I've heard multiple

31:36

producers say that it's a

31:36

stressful part of the gig. And

31:39

it can be any kind of type of

31:39

performance that you want to

31:42

make sure is represented, but

31:42

you don't get the applications

31:44

in. But I think, yeah, there

31:44

there are producers that deal

31:47

with that problem better, as you

31:47

say, thinking, well, I want to

31:51

prioritise being diverse and

31:51

representing these people. So I

31:54

need to take it upon myself to

31:54

do the labour and go out. If

31:57

they haven't come to me, there's

31:57

a reason for that. And I have to

32:00

go out and find them and find

32:00

out how I can make my show more

32:04

accessible, and make it

32:04

something that they would feel

32:07

safe and happy to apply to. But

32:07

yeah, it's it's amazing how many

32:11

producers don't do that. I was

32:11

nearly involved in a TV show

32:17

that didn't happen, which was

32:17

disastrous, but I was barely

32:21

involved. I'd hardly knew

32:21

anything about it. It was kind

32:23

of "Oh, would you like to

32:23

audition to be a judge for a new

32:26

drag show?" And I was like, that

32:26

sounds cool. Great that they're

32:28

asking drag kings will be but it

32:28

transpired that they had about,

32:33

what was it, maybe 50

32:33

contestants, and maybe one was

32:38

not white. And there was one

32:38

drag king of all those people

32:41

after they kind of trumpeted

32:41

this diverse representation,

32:45

buzzword narrative. And I sort

32:45

of called them up and was like,

32:49

one, "I'm not being involved

32:49

with this in any way. If this is

32:51

this is how it is. How has this

32:51

happened?" And they said, "Well,

32:55

we didn't get any, we got one

32:55

application from a dragging, we

32:58

got one application from a

32:58

person of colour. So what can we

33:01

do? That's not our fault?" And

33:01

like, your priorities are messed

33:05

up if you are willing to

33:05

continue with the show, first of

33:08

all, being like, "Oh, well, they

33:08

didn't apply. So we're just

33:10

doing a white show. That's fine.

33:10

Who cares?" That's Problem

33:13

number one. Problem number two

33:13

is like, well, if they don't

33:16

apply, you've obviously done

33:16

something wrong, because they're

33:20

out there. Any category of

33:20

people that you think is

33:23

underrepresented, they are

33:23

there, and they are talented,

33:25

and they are wanting work and

33:25

wanting to perform. But if

33:29

they're not applying for your

33:29

show, it means there's something

33:31

wrong with you, or the way that

33:31

you've advertised your show, or

33:35

there's an extra mile you didn't

33:35

go to to create an accessible

33:38

environment for these people. So

33:38

yeah, I think it's, it's kind of

33:42

not rocket science. So I think

33:42

it's great when producers go the

33:46

extra mile and prioritise

33:46

diversity in their shows.

33:49

I think it's not rocket

33:49

science, either. But I do think

33:52

that, you know, it does take

33:52

some effort. Yes, it does. You

33:56

know, it takes some effort to

33:56

try and figure out ways in

33:59

which, and I think as well,

33:59

there's this thing about, like,

34:03

not cherry picking, as it were,

34:03

so you know, "Oh, well, I've not

34:06

got this specific kind of person

34:06

in my show so I need to quickly

34:10

find oneso it all looks diverse,

34:10

and like I've included people."

34:14

And it doesn't have to be that.

34:14

The fact is that you should be

34:16

representing these people in

34:16

your shows anyway. And yes,

34:19

sometimes it's not going to be a

34:19

possibility. But you need to,

34:23

you know, if I've not got the

34:23

applications from people that I

34:26

want my thing where I sit there

34:26

and think about it at 3am,

34:29

because that's my new vibe, is

34:29

"What am I not doing?" And what

34:35

are my what is a way that I can

34:35

do this better? What is a way

34:40

where I can be like, "Hello.

34:40

Show here!" And listen, you also

34:46

have to look at the algorithms

34:46

too. It's just not that you put

34:49

stuff on social media it just doesn't reach people.

34:51

Who you reaching? Is there

34:51

a reason for that?

34:54

Yeah, absolutely.

34:55

It is natural that you're not going to be able to reach everyone, necessarily.

35:00

I find that quite stressful.

35:01

It is stressful. And it's

35:01

definitely, I think it's simply

35:04

the difference between someone

35:04

who wants their show to be

35:07

diverse and representative

35:07

because they intrinsically value

35:10

that. And it's important to

35:10

them. And someone who does it

35:13

because they know if they don't,

35:13

they'll get turned down on

35:15

social media. Like you can tell

35:15

when a show has been put

35:17

together with the right

35:17

intentions and with the wrong

35:21

intentions.

35:23

That's interesting. I

35:23

think about that a lot of 3am,

35:25

too. My latest thinking is what

35:25

makes people go for certain

35:33

things on social media, and what

35:33

makes people go well, no, that

35:36

that kind of made sense over

35:36

there. So that that's fine. And

35:39

I lie there. And I think about

35:39

it, and I think I came up with

35:41

exactly what you just said,

35:41

intention, you know, and I think

35:45

it's about this person we know

35:45

intends to always do this, and

35:48

this is who they are

35:48

intrinsically, and there are

35:51

things working against them.

35:51

And, you know, people that just

35:55

need to do a bit more. And I,

35:55

you know, I wish that I didn't

35:58

keep having to say it over and

35:58

over and over again. But I feel

36:03

like a bit of a... sometimes on

36:03

social media like [puts on a

36:05

sing-song voice] "By the way!

36:05

Make your show diverse! And have

36:09

that has like a number one in

36:09

your, in your shows." And I feel

36:13

like a bit like I'm just going

36:13

on and on and on. And I feel bad

36:17

so then I put a picture up of a

36:17

kiwi, just lighten it up a bit.

36:22

I find it bizarre given

36:22

that like the industry that

36:24

we're in is literally based on

36:24

the idea of variety. Like it's

36:28

cabaret, it's variety, it's

36:28

showing off different skills,

36:30

different people. That's the

36:30

whole point of it. So if you

36:34

produce a lineup with five

36:34

people who look the same and do

36:37

the same thing, you've

36:37

fundamentally failed at what

36:39

you're trying to do.

36:41

Yeah, I hear that for

36:41

sure. Sorry, I took that into a

36:44

bit of a rant space.

36:45

Ranting's good. I feel

36:45

like it's cheaper than therapy,

36:48

isn't it?

36:49

Isn't it though?

36:49

compliance therapist? Oh, don't

36:51

get me on that rant next. For

36:51

God's sake. I'm trying a trading

36:56

to be a therapist at the moment.

36:56

And I also have therapy. I

37:01

started doing it so that it was

37:01

after that poor, poor trans boy,

37:08

he ended his life - trigger

37:08

warning - because there wasn't a

37:14

counsellor at the school.

37:15

I didn't know about that

37:15

one.

37:17

They just didn't. And so

37:17

I was like, right. And I was

37:21

already studying and so I've

37:21

decided to train to be a

37:26

counsellor in schools.

37:29

That's something that's

37:29

very needed, I think.

37:32

Yeah, I think so too. And

37:32

specifically within the LGBTQ

37:38

plus, because one, it's my

37:38

community, you know, it's one

37:44

I'm a part of, and also because

37:44

I think kids don't know what to

37:49

do. But when you go out looking

37:49

for a therapist, and a therapist

37:55

is charging 150 a session, and

37:55

the reason they're charging that

37:59

isn't because they're any more

37:59

qualified than anybody else.

38:02

It's because they've written a

38:02

book, or, you know, they've got

38:05

a TV show. And I'm like, I get

38:05

it, because it's the same as you

38:10

should be charging what you're

38:10

worth.

38:13

Yeah.

38:13

But this is therapy.

38:13

You're overcharging for people

38:19

to get help. What are you

38:19

talking about? That's not a

38:24

thing.

38:26

Strange disparity between

38:26

access to mental health care.

38:31

Yeah, I know it's a big, thing.

38:31

I don't think I've ever been

38:33

treated by... No, I've never

38:33

been treated by someone who's

38:36

trans. In all the times I've

38:36

encountered mental health

38:40

professionals. I think once I've

38:40

had a non binary counsellor, and

38:44

they were the most effective

38:44

counsellor I've ever had,

38:46

because I didn't have to explain

38:46

to them what it meant to be non

38:49

binary. It was just kind of like

38:49

a given so we can actually deal

38:51

with the other stuff. But yeah,

38:51

it makes a huge difference

38:54

having someone who understands you and who's from your community, that's going to be

38:56

able to support you.

38:59

Yeah, for sure. Well that

38:59

took a bit of a turn.

39:01

I'll trade you therapy for rhinestones.

39:05

You know I would. Listen!

39:08

No ethical issues there...

39:09

[Laughs] You just listen,

39:09

you just slide me some little

39:16

baggies of rhinestones, you

39:16

know, some little, some little

39:18

bow ties, you know? And I'll see

39:18

what I can do. I'll see what we

39:23

see what we can arrange. Throw

39:23

the cat in and we're sold. No,

39:28

I'm kidding. Don't do that. Keep

39:28

your cat.

39:30

You can have him is really annoying.

39:32

He's not annoying,

39:34

He's very annoying. As

39:34

part of his charm.

39:37

I do cherish the picture

39:37

that Lily sent me which is a

39:42

picture of her trying to eat

39:42

some food that you'd made. And

39:47

the cat was just like...

39:48

[Laughs] Oh, yeah, he's

39:48

got to the stage of age now,

39:54

which I think happens in human

39:54

beings too, where he just does

39:56

not give a shit anymore. Like,

39:56

"I don't see your rules, I'm too

40:01

old to care." So he will

40:01

literally take food out of your

40:05

hand. If you're not quick

40:05

enough. If you're holding a

40:07

crisp in your hand and you look

40:07

to one side to check your phone,

40:09

he will take that crisp from

40:09

your hand. Or your mouth! If

40:12

it's not all the way in your

40:12

mouth, he will get it. Yeah. No

40:15

boundaries anymore. And he's

40:15

deaf, so he shouts really loudly

40:19

and he doesn't know how loud he

40:19

is anymore. He's very loving.

40:23

It's very cute. I can see

40:23

how that would get a bit

40:23

[Laughs] annoying, but also very

40:26

adorable. Lily had to make some

40:29

sort of... I think she'd made

40:29

like a fruit boundary. So that

40:33

said cat could not get to her

40:33

food. She was sat on her chair

40:37

This is a monster that she

40:37

created. Previous to me,

40:38

so she could eat it here and just Valentine's Day meals were spent

40:43

with Lional sitting at the table

40:47

eating steak with her. True

40:47

story. And he gets tuna steak on

40:50

Christmas Day. And then she

40:50

complains that he gets up at the

40:54

table and steals food. This is

40:54

this is your monster. You did

40:58

this.

40:59

Cats everywhere listening

40:59

to this are looking at their

41:02

owners going, "Errrr, you

41:02

don't... I get kibble!"

41:08

[Laughs] You know what that's called? Boundaries.

41:10

It's well taught

41:10

boundaries. That's right. We

41:13

should all have them

41:16

With our cats

41:17

With our cats. No I don't

41:17

want boundaries with my cat.

41:21

You know what, during lockdown, we spent like every second of the day together, so

41:23

he's just sort of part of us

41:25

now. There are no boundaries

41:25

anymore.

41:29

My cat passed the

41:29

boundary when she decided to

41:32

bring me 3am frogs. To the bed.

41:35

[Laughs]

41:39

It's not funny!

41:40

Is that the thing were

41:40

they find the place where the

41:43

frogs live and then they just go

41:43

back again and again and again,

41:46

acting as if it's a new achievement every time?

41:48

It was definitely a gift

41:48

because I wasn't in the room I

41:53

usually am, and so she found me.

41:53

And she jumped on the bed, and

42:00

she was doing a very strange

42:00

thing until I realised and I

42:03

sort of peered over the duvay

42:03

and I was like, "That's a

42:07

fucking amphibian in my bed."

42:09

[Laughs] Was it alive?

42:11

Yes! It was jumping!

42:11

And you've never seen anything

42:17

like me jump out of bed watching

42:17

a giant... and honestly, it was

42:20

big. It was a really big frog.

42:20

And I couldn't bring myself to

42:26

pick it up. I put the rubber

42:26

gloves on, and I got a saucepan

42:31

from the kitchen. But I was

42:31

scared it was gonna jump at me.

42:36

So we had an hour's conversation

42:36

at 3am with a frog where I was

42:40

like, "Listen, we're friends,

42:40

you're more scared of me than I

42:43

am of you. I get that, it's

42:43

okay." And I still couldn't do

42:48

it. So I made him like a little

42:48

barricade with some amps and a

42:52

guitar. So he would stay there.

42:52

And I'd deal with it in the

42:56

morning. And when I say I deal

42:56

with it in the morning, what I

42:59

meant was Tom would deal with it

42:59

in the morning. But Tom wasn't

43:04

arriving and, and so I realised

43:04

I had to deal with it. So I

43:08

decided that I would throw a

43:08

wastepaper basket over the frog,

43:14

and then pick up the entire rug

43:14

that covered the room and take

43:19

it back to the pond.

43:20

[Laughs] I like that

43:20

solution. It's fine, I'll just

43:23

I'll just take everything. The

43:23

room that you're in, I'll just

43:29

burn it. Just throw out the

43:29

whole thing.

43:33

You belong to the pond now.

43:35

Have my rug. Have my

43:35

furniture? I mean, you solved

43:40

the problem. So...

43:42

It's about solutions.

43:42

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Are

43:48

you taking part in any online

43:48

shows coming up?

43:55

Actually, no, I'm not at

43:55

the moment, I did a few at the

43:59

beginning of the first lockdown.

43:59

But I made a decision that it

44:02

wasn't for me, just the amount

44:02

of labour that went into making,

44:07

filming, and editing. Learning

44:07

how to do green screen filming,

44:12

which was a good skill. I'm glad

44:12

to learn that, but it was hard.

44:15

And then the return was about

44:15

50p an hour, if that. It's good

44:19

to be able to keep performing.

44:19

But the same time I think there

44:21

is this thing about knowing your

44:21

worth, and not being willing to

44:25

take something that I've worked

44:25

really hard for, to feel like it

44:28

has a certain worth and

44:28

disseminate it in a way that

44:32

doesn't feel right for it. So

44:32

I'm not doing online stuff. I

44:36

mean, something came along when

44:36

like then I would potentially,

44:40

but... I don't know. I belong on

44:40

a physical stage.

44:45

Yeah, I see that. I

44:45

totally get that and I've

44:48

realised that too. If it's a

44:48

pre-recorded show and it's a pre

44:52

recorded act I've got, cool. And

44:52

that's what I've said in the

44:57

last show I produced, and what

44:57

I've said in the St. Paddy's Day

45:00

show; you do not have to redo a

45:00

video if you do not want to and

45:04

you do not possess the skills. I

45:04

am happy to have your video with

45:08

lots of people clapping in the

45:08

background, that's fine. Yeah,

45:13

that's fine. As long as it's

45:13

representing your heritage I

45:16

don't care

45:17

It's important to maintain

45:17

we spend so much time before

45:20

locked down and since then

45:20

fighting to make sure that

45:23

people are getting paid fairly

45:23

for the art and the work that

45:26

they produce. And I want shows

45:26

to be able to continue and

45:29

support venues but I don't want

45:29

to contribute to the devaluing

45:33

of our industry which is already

45:33

so susceptible to being taken

45:36

advantage of. So that was my

45:36

principal moment for the day.

45:43

I enjoy the pose.

45:44

I'll do my elbow stance to

45:44

go along with my taking a

45:47

stance.

45:48

It's a good look. I like

45:48

it. It's a cardigan stance.

45:51

It's hard to have tough, strong feelings in a cardigan.

45:54

I disagree. Well we then

45:54

in that case we look forward to

46:00

seeing you live again. Which

46:00

which we will and I know that

46:05

you have many a following, and

46:05

many a fan. I'm not included in

46:13

that so sorry.

46:14

Each have their own. Some

46:14

people don't have taste, and

46:16

that's fine. [Laughs]

46:18

[Laughs] Oh! Shots fired!

46:18

I mean, I don't. Have you seen

46:24

this tacky boat I'm wearing.

46:24

I've no taste at all.

46:28

Who make that?

46:29

And these very tacky

46:29

baubles that are hanging on my

46:32

window sill.

46:34

Good band name, Tacky

46:34

Baubles. Actually a burlesque

46:36

name. That'd be a great burlesque name.

46:37

Ooooh. Tacky Baubles.

46:37

Alright, I've seen the time. Tom

46:42

is like, "Stopped talking! I

46:42

have to edit this."

46:46

"You've tagged so many people!"

46:48

He's okay. It's fine.

46:51

Shall we say 10 more venues and performance now just so he has to tag them? [Laughs]

46:55

Please just list as many

46:55

as you possibly can.

46:59

Nah, I'll be nice to Tom.

47:01

What's funny though is I

47:01

think Marked and Snatched comes

47:04

up in every single podcast so

47:04

you're you are linked in every

47:08

single one. Well, to be fair,

47:08

it's because the last one was

47:13

Tito and so you know, we had a

47:13

lot to talk about in terms of

47:17

rhinestones and Mark and

47:17

Snatched and you know, general

47:20

stuff. And then yeah, I think

47:20

everyone I've spoken to borrow

47:23

maybe one person has something

47:23

from you. And then I think even

47:27

with that person I was wearing

47:27

the bow tie and then they asked

47:29

where it was from and I was like, "Oh, Marked and Snatched."

47:31

We'll have to start paying

47:31

your royalties soon.

47:34

Listen, I'm not gonna say

47:34

no, but I'm also not out here

47:38

trying to do that. That's fine,

47:38

we've already got our deal. You

47:43

know, a bit of therapy and pay

47:43

me in rhinestone. Just

47:47

rhinestone shit. Just find a

47:47

block of wood outside and

47:50

rhinestone it as fine.

47:52

Done.

47:53

I do just have to do this

47:53

because I'm hoping that you have

47:56

the same thing. In which case

47:56

this might sound stupid. I have

48:00

literally just discovered

48:00

rhinestone pens, and I posted it

48:05

on Instagram. So I've got, you

48:05

know, with the little rubber bit

48:08

and then a little pointy bit at

48:08

the other end and mine has

48:10

jewels in the middle. It's great.

48:12

They actually work?

48:12

Because I don't trust them.

48:14

Oh my god.

48:16

They actually work?

48:18

I rhinestoned, I'm in the

48:18

middle of rhinestoning a bunch

48:22

of rubber ducks, as I always am.

48:22

I've been rhinestoning Rubber

48:24

Ducks for a year and a half. I

48:24

rhinestoned five mini rubber

48:27

ducks in 10 minutes and I am not

48:27

a fast rhinestoner. You ask

48:31

anybody. Because I was dubious.

48:31

They were on sale on eBay. And I

48:36

was like, "Eeeh, go on then." I

48:36

can't speak highly enough of

48:40

them. Honestly.

48:41

I mean, I'm still with the

48:41

blu tack on a pencil method.

48:45

That's fine. It works. It

48:45

works well, but these pens... I

48:50

don't know how it works. I don't

48:50

understand the science, but I

48:52

put the thing near the

48:52

rhinestone, it picks it up and

48:54

it holds on to it right until

48:54

over here. And I plop it down on

48:58

the glue and it's just there.

48:58

But I posted it on Instagram,

49:03

and a bunch of people were like,

49:03

"What is this?" And then two

49:06

people, and this is two people

49:06

that burlesque is their bread

49:11

and butter, they do it

49:11

professionally and they

49:15

rhinestone their own stuff, and

49:15

I was like, "What do you use?"

49:18

"My hand."

49:20

Hand?

49:21

Hand! I talking hands.

49:23

Wow. I mean first time I

49:23

did it I did it with a pair of

49:26

tweezers and then I said this to

49:26

drag queen and they just looked

49:28

at me like I'd slapped them in

49:28

the face. Why? Why? The pencil,

49:34

bit of blu tack on the end, just

49:34

rub it so it's not too sticky

49:38

anymore. Fashion it into a point

49:38

and then there you go. Or,

49:43

apparently, these fancy pants

49:43

rhinestone pens.

49:47

Honestly I don't know if

49:47

they work any better than the

49:49

blu tack on the end of the pen

49:49

because I could never get that

49:52

to work for me. I'm blaming

49:52

dyslexia and not the fact that

49:54

I'm just a raving idiot. Mark

49:54

disagrees.

49:59

I have dyslexia and a

49:59

common symptom that they list is

50:02

inability rhinestone with a blu

50:02

tack pencil.

50:05

It's right up there.

50:05

Sorry. It just is that and not

50:08

being able to get into body

50:08

cages. I can't...

50:11

They don't test for that when they test you.

50:14

And I don't understand why.

50:15

Here you go, put this on. [Laughs]

50:17

Yeah. Oh my god, could

50:17

you imagine? "Put this on."

50:20

"No!" [Laughs] Yes, we're gonna

50:20

end the podcast because you have

50:25

stuff to do. I mean, you've got

50:25

a whole shop coming a 9pm.

50:28

I do you have a shop

50:28

coming in five hours. So that

50:31

will take prep. Mental and

50:31

physical preparation?

50:37

Yeah, that's much further

50:37

than your rhinestone shelves.

50:39

You'll have to go further.

50:40

I'll have to go

50:40

downstairs, and there will be

50:42

some interaction with another

50:42

human being. So that is a lot.

50:46

That's a lot. That's the

50:46

whole thing. We don't have to do

50:48

that anymore. It is. Thank you

50:48

for being on the podcast. I am

50:53

so happy. And when somebody, a

50:53

mutual friend of ours, was like,

50:57

"Why don't you ask Mark if they'll be on?" I was like, "I don't know! Do you think they

50:59

would be? Like genuinely, this

51:03

is the conversation I had with

51:03

them. And they were like, "Don't

51:06

be a dickhead. What are you doing right now?"

51:08

[Laughs] Don't be a

51:08

dickhead. I'm very happy to be

51:12

on your podcast. I feel very honoured.

51:14

I feel honoured having

51:14

you and I hope that we get to

51:17

hang out again, at some point in

51:17

the not so distant future.

51:22

Dammit.

51:22

That would be lovely.

51:24

Listen, I'll cycle over

51:24

to yours, because this

51:29

rhonestone pen came in a pack of

51:29

three. And I don't need three.

51:34

I'll cycle one over and you can

51:34

you can try it out for yourself.

51:40

Great.

51:41

Yeah, I'll definitely do

51:41

that. I'll throw it. You won't

51:48

even be in. It will just be Lily

51:48

there like, "What's happening?

51:54

What have you agreed?"

51:56

She'll take it. Just say when.

51:59

I don't doubt it. So, I

51:59

will unpress record and then say

52:04

bye to you properly. But thank

52:04

you for being on the podcast.

52:07

And is there anything you'd like

52:07

to leave us with? It can be

52:10

anything you can tell us that

52:10

you know, you like squid.

52:15

I do like squid. That

52:15

would that wouldn't have been

52:17

what immediately popped into my

52:17

head. Right now I can't think of

52:20

anything more interesting than that. Because my head's just full of squid now.

52:23

Mine too. Tentacles are

52:23

sexy.

52:30

That! On a tshirt.

52:33

I want it. Alright, I'm

52:33

gonna unpress record now.