0:00

With Instacart, you can get groceries and

0:02

more delivered from over 1,000 stores and 75,000 locations. So

0:06

whether you need a massive haul from a wholesale club,

0:08

everyday essentials from your go-to supermarket,

0:10

or specialty items from your favorite local grocer,

0:13

you can get whatever you need delivered in as fast

0:15

as an hour. You can even shop for pet supplies,

0:17

electronics, and sporting goods in just a few

0:20

clicks. Visit Instacart.com to get free

0:22

delivery on your first three orders. Offer valid for

0:24

a limited time. $10 minimum per order. Additional

0:26

terms apply.

0:28

Tonight, the important days

0:31

ahead in Washington tied to our nation's debt. President

0:34

Biden set to sit down with Speaker McCarthy

0:36

tomorrow as the threat of default

0:39

still hangs in the balance. And Republicans

0:41

continue their investigation into President Biden's

0:43

family. They just need

0:45

to track down their key informant first.

0:48

Then a preview of tomorrow's hearing

0:50

on artificial intelligence. Is Congress

0:52

prepared to regulate this technology

0:55

as the 11th hour gets underway on this

0:57

Monday night?

1:03

Good evening. Once again, I'm Stephanie

1:05

Ruhle. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen

1:07

is sounding the alarm yet again. In

1:10

a letter to the Speaker and top lawmakers,

1:13

she wrote the United States could run out

1:15

of money to pay its bills, quote, if

1:17

Congress has not acted to raise or suspend

1:20

the debt limit by early June and potentially

1:23

as early as June 1st. That means

1:25

Congress has less than three weeks to act

1:27

or risk an unprecedented debt

1:29

default. And Congress, they're only in

1:31

session a fraction of

1:33

those three weeks. Tomorrow, President

1:35

Biden, Speaker McCarthy and congressional

1:37

leaders will hold their second official

1:39

meeting to try to reach an agreement and

1:42

keep our economy from going off the cliff. Teams

1:44

from both the White House and Congress worked throughout

1:47

the weekend on a potential deal. But

1:49

the president and speaker still don't seem

1:51

to be on the same page.

1:54

We just had our secretary say June

1:56

1st we could run out of money. We only

1:59

have so many days. left. So no,

2:01

I don't think we're in a good place. I know we're

2:03

not. I remain optimistic because I'm a

2:05

congenital optimist, but I really

2:08

think there's a desire on their part as well

2:10

as ours to reach agreement. I

2:12

think we'll be able to do it.

2:14

Now for facts eight, let's get some

2:16

context here. Under Donald Trump,

2:18

Congress raised the debt limit twice in 2017

2:21

and 2018. Also tonight, we are keeping an eye on the investigation

2:24

into an attack at

2:29

Virginia Congressman Jerry Connolly's office.

2:31

Police say a man with a metal baseball

2:34

bat entered his district office and

2:36

beat two of his staffers. Both were

2:38

hospitalized and later released, but

2:40

police also say the attacker was looking

2:43

for the congressman. Earlier tonight, he

2:45

spoke about the attack.

2:46

One

2:48

of the staffers who was injured,

2:51

she's an intern and

2:54

today was her first day. So

2:56

imagine your first day in the offices

2:59

that comes in with a baseball bat and beat you. I

3:01

was really mobbed

3:03

on the floor by Republicans and Democrats who

3:06

easily related

3:06

what happened to me today. We don't have the kind

3:08

of security we have up here in the Capitol at

3:11

the district level. Many of our offices

3:13

are in malls or office

3:15

buildings. And so you

3:18

don't have any kind of sophisticated protection

3:22

or security screen. And so

3:25

I think we're going to have to really

3:28

talk about that as Republicans and Democrats up here.

3:31

What are we prepared to

3:32

do and how do we need such a broad challenge?

3:36

Broad challenge indeed. NBC's Ryan Nobles

3:38

has more on the rise in threats to lawmakers

3:41

across Capitol Hill.

3:43

According to Capitol Police, threats against

3:46

members have skyrocketed from just

3:48

over 4,000 in 2017 to almost 10,000 in 2021, the same year as

3:54

the January 6th attack.

3:56

But it's been more than just threats. Within

3:58

just the last year, The husband of House

4:01

Speaker Nancy Pelosi was violently

4:03

attacked at their family home in San Francisco.

4:06

Going back further, in 2017, a

4:08

group of GOP members were targeted by a

4:11

gunman while practicing for the congressional baseball

4:13

game. And in 2011, former Congresswoman

4:15

Gabby Giffords suffered a mass shooting

4:18

that killed several of her staff members.

4:22

With that, let's get smarter with the

4:24

help of our lead-off panel this evening. Peter Baker,

4:26

Chief White House Correspondent for The New York Times. Leanne

4:29

Caldwell, an anchor for Washington Post Live

4:31

and co-author of its morning newsletter, The

4:33

Early 202, and former federal

4:35

prosecutor Glenn Kirschner. Welcome

4:38

to you all. We have got a lot to get to. Peter,

4:41

I want to start with the president because he's supposed

4:43

to leave for the G7 summit on Wednesday.

4:46

Do you think we're going to see any real movement on the

4:48

debt limit before he goes?

4:51

Well, no, a little bit better at four o'clock tomorrow.

4:53

That's of course when he sits down with Kevin McCarthy and the

4:55

other congressional leaders at the White House. And

4:58

I think that, I may have the time wrong, I think, to say

5:00

that, but I think it's in the afternoon. And

5:03

we're going to find out whether they, from

5:05

the mood of music, right? You're not going to have a deal tomorrow.

5:07

I wouldn't expect, nobody should expect there to be a final

5:09

deal three weeks before a deadline. That doesn't happen

5:11

in Washington, but you will see, I think, the

5:14

sense of movement or progress or lack

5:16

thereof, right? We'll see what Kevin McCarthy says

5:18

when he walks out of the White House afterwards

5:20

on the White House driveway, as we did

5:22

last week, when he made very clear that he felt

5:24

he was far apart from President Biden.

5:27

The difference is in tone in the last couple of days.

5:29

Very interesting, very striking. It was fascinating to

5:31

watch the President of the United States give credit to

5:33

Kevin McCarthy for being genuine in his desire

5:35

to reach a deal even as Kevin McCarthy says, we're nowhere near

5:38

one. But this is all part of the kabuki dance

5:40

until you get to the final stage where you really have

5:42

to push through to the final deal

5:44

where you actually write down things on paper, make

5:47

an agreement to do it.

5:48

Leon, if they don't make significant

5:51

progress tomorrow, is there any possibility

5:53

that the President will postpone or

5:56

not go on the trip? I mean, G7

5:58

is obviously super important.

5:59

he's added a stop

6:02

off in Papua New Guinea on the way, really

6:04

interesting, but not nearly

6:06

as interesting or as urgent

6:09

or with all the

6:11

potential downsides if we go into

6:13

default. Yeah, that's

6:15

right. So, Steph, the White House is saying that

6:17

the president intends to still take his trip,

6:20

but I will say House Republicans

6:23

are pressing the president that maybe he shouldn't

6:25

go. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy

6:28

was asked that question tonight, and

6:31

McCarthy said, well, he thinks

6:33

that American presidents should focus

6:35

on American solutions and

6:37

implying that he should perhaps stay

6:40

in town to talk about this

6:42

debt limit. Now, as far as

6:44

the

6:44

status of the negotiations go,

6:47

you

6:47

know, we're kind of at this very familiar

6:50

phase where talks go between the

6:52

White House and congressional leaders

6:54

or between the parties on these big deals.

6:57

You're at the phase where people are just really

6:59

far apart. They're talking about what

7:02

needs to be discussed and trying to get closer

7:04

and closer together. And the problem

7:07

now is this is a normal

7:09

process, but it's a process

7:11

on an expedited timeline because

7:14

of this June 1st

7:17

date where the X date could

7:19

be realized and the United States could

7:21

run out of money to pay its bills. And

7:24

so that's really what the stressor

7:26

is here. People, I'm

7:28

told in the negotiations, are working

7:31

collaboratively and they are doing their

7:34

job, but there are just no breakthroughs

7:36

and there's just no time stuff. All

7:38

right, Glenn, new topic that we need you

7:41

to explain for us. I want to take it slow.

7:44

Special counsel John Durham is now

7:46

slamming the FBI

7:47

over their investigation back

7:51

in 2016 over Trump's campaign and

7:53

its ties to Russia. What do we need to

7:55

know about this whole thing?

7:58

Yeah, when I was reading through it, as much

8:00

of the mega report as I've managed

8:02

to get through, Steph, having worked

8:05

RICO cases and gang investigations

8:07

with the FBI, I was a little

8:09

miffed. It was a little off-putting to see

8:12

a guy like John Durham, who was

8:14

assigned to investigate the investigators,

8:17

which I find problematic.

8:19

If I were assigned an investigation

8:22

as a federal prosecutor, and I diligently

8:24

went about discharging my duties

8:27

only to have somebody swoop in later

8:30

and dislike my conclusion and

8:32

start investigating me, that

8:35

is corrosive to a law enforcement

8:37

institution. But then when I read John

8:39

Durham sort of throwing these criticism

8:42

bombs at the FBI, saying things

8:44

like, and I quote, the FBI's

8:46

work was seriously deficient,

8:49

and the FBI showed, quote, a

8:51

lack of analytical rigor.

8:53

These are some of his conclusions. Mind

8:55

you, Steph, this is a special counsel,

8:58

a federal prosecutor, who spent

9:01

four years and more than $6 million

9:04

of taxpayer money. He decided

9:06

his analysis resulted

9:09

in two prosecutions he thought

9:11

should be brought, and he failed

9:14

spectacularly with across

9:16

the board acquittals, not guilty

9:18

verdicts in both. And as if that's

9:20

not bad enough, one of the jurors

9:22

was interviewed after one of the prosecutions

9:25

and said, and I quote, our time

9:27

could have been better spent, Steph.

9:30

I think that says a lot more about

9:33

John Durham's lack of analytical

9:36

rigor than it says about

9:38

the FBI.

9:39

Peter, the results of an investigation

9:42

in a perfect world should not

9:45

come out with a Republican result

9:47

or a Democratic result. It should just come

9:49

out with the truth. But

9:51

we know that Republicans are interpreting

9:54

this report very differently than

9:57

what Glenn just explained. So tell us their

9:59

take.

10:00

Yeah, their take is, look, this proves,

10:02

at least Trump's take is, this proves that the FBI

10:05

was out to get them all along, that they were willing to cut

10:07

corners, that they were politically biased or at least,

10:10

you know, manipulated by political actors,

10:12

meaning, of course, the Clinton Democrats, and

10:15

that President Trump was unfairly prosecuted.

10:18

Now, what's really interesting is that, of course,

10:21

when Mueller's report came out and

10:23

didn't include any criminal charges

10:25

against the president, even though it had a lot of

10:27

criticism of the way he had handled things,

10:30

the president said, well, this is complete exoneration. What

10:32

John Durham, of course, just put out is a report that's critical

10:34

of the way the FBI handled things, but with no charges, as

10:36

Glenn Kirshner said, the other charges that had been

10:39

brought previously were

10:41

found wanting by a jury. So

10:43

this report, even though it has no, you know, allegations

10:46

of criminal misconduct by the people who were

10:48

investigated, is portrayed

10:50

by the Trump team, of course, as a, you know, big

10:54

time criticism and condemnation

10:57

of the FBI. So it all depends on how your political

11:00

stance is. What's important is, look, you know,

11:02

this investigation, you know,

11:05

went forward and it was part of Bill

11:07

Barr's effort to discredit the

11:10

original investigation, which he felt was flawed

11:12

to begin with. That was the mandate going in. John

11:14

Durham found no

11:16

credible, prosecutable case

11:18

against anybody of any real consequence. And

11:21

so he's managed to give his professional opinion. He's

11:24

a longtime prosecutor. He can give his opinion about

11:26

how he thinks that things were handled, but he didn't

11:28

charge any misconduct.

11:30

Glenn, new legal topic, same

11:33

former president, Georgia. Fulton

11:35

County DA is pushing back against Trump's

11:37

efforts to derail her investigation into

11:40

the 2020 election interference. What's going

11:42

on there?

11:43

So I would urge everybody to read

11:46

at least the first two pages of

11:48

District Attorney Fawny Willis's court filing

11:50

today because it's a 22 page scorched

11:53

earth refutation of everything

11:56

Donald Trump's criminal defense attorneys

11:58

tried to do. down in Georgia.

12:01

You know they filed a remarkable document

12:03

back in March. They fashioned it a motion

12:06

to quash fancy word. Which

12:09

means a motion to throw out

12:11

the grand jury's report that

12:13

we suspect recommended a whole

12:16

bunch of indictments we don't know that yet

12:18

but that's what the reporting is and that's what

12:20

the grand jurors themselves were

12:22

saying when they were permitted to give interviews.

12:24

Trump's team said we want

12:27

Judge McBurney to quash or throw out

12:29

the grand jury report. We wanted expunged

12:32

not really a thing when it comes to

12:34

grand jury reports will set that aside.

12:37

Want they wanted McBurney to suppress

12:39

all evidence for all time against

12:41

Donald Trump. Wanted the judge to

12:44

kick off. The Fulton County

12:46

district attorney's office from all

12:48

investigations and prosecutions of Donald

12:51

Trump and wanted Judge McBurney

12:53

to kick himself. Off the case

12:55

remarkable asks well in 22 pages

12:59

district attorney Fawny Willis just said

13:01

essentially all of their claims

13:04

are unsupported in both

13:06

fact

13:06

and law and they should all be rejected

13:09

without the court even calling

13:11

for a hearing in the case and

13:13

I suspect

13:14

that is what Judge McBurney will do.

13:17

We'll soon find out land. Let's

13:19

turn to this attack on Congressman Connolly's

13:21

office this is only the most recent

13:24

example of lawmakers their staff

13:26

members of their families being targets

13:29

of violence it's happening across the country.

13:31

Is there any push to increase security

13:34

for these lawmakers not just when they're in

13:36

D.C. on the hill.

13:38

So there has been

13:40

a push to increase security for lawmakers

13:42

they got additional funding over the past

13:44

two years after the January six attack

13:47

on the Capitol and after there is a major increase

13:50

and threats against members of Congress.

13:53

And then after Speaker Pelosi's husband

13:56

then Speaker Pelosi's husband was attacked

13:59

in their

13:59

there was again another

14:02

push to do even more.

14:05

These are questions that are gonna come up in

14:08

appropriations bills and funding

14:10

bills. But I will say that there's

14:12

a long running concern among

14:15

members of Congress who many of them have

14:17

been attacked even Steve Scalise

14:20

and a whole, the Republican leader and

14:23

the Republican members of the baseball

14:25

team a few years ago were shot

14:28

at. And so this is something

14:30

that is increasing

14:33

each year. And it is,

14:35

I'm told by members of Congress really

14:38

having a chilling effect on

14:40

people trying to convince new

14:42

people to run for Congress, to run

14:45

for office. A lot of people are saying

14:47

that the risk is just not worth

14:49

it, not only to themselves, but to their families

14:51

as well, Steph. Peter, let's

14:54

head to North Carolina because their Republican

14:56

governor Roy Cooper was on our

14:58

air earlier today talking about abortion

15:00

bans in 2024 and said

15:02

some surprising stuff, watch this.

15:05

One thing we know is that

15:08

women's healthcare is under assault.

15:11

We know that there

15:13

are Republicans across the

15:15

country who want to turn back the

15:18

clock 50 years. Elections

15:20

matter,

15:21

democratic governors matter,

15:24

state legislatures matter

15:27

and I believe you're gonna see a lot of

15:29

people get engaged not only

15:32

in North Carolina, but across the country.

15:36

Roy Cooper is a Democrat, but when

15:38

you think about a state like North Carolina, when

15:40

you think about the deep South, you

15:43

wonder which direction are things going

15:45

in. That governor vetoed a 12 week

15:48

abortion ban that was passed by

15:50

the GOP state legislature. But

15:52

the thing is those Republican lawmakers

15:55

could override his veto. So it

15:57

doesn't really matter the position he's taking. What

15:59

should we do?

15:59

be watching for?

16:02

Well, in his case, it's a fascinating circumstance because

16:04

he only has to convince one Republican

16:06

who voted for this ban

16:08

to change sides in order to uphold his

16:10

veto. So it's possible he could do that.

16:13

That's obviously, you know, ask a lot

16:15

for somebody to switch sides. But the point is, it's very,

16:17

very close there. Comes down

16:19

to one vote. But you're right. He is speaking

16:21

to a larger issue. What Democrats have found

16:23

consistently since the Dobbs decision

16:26

is that if you put abortion on the ballot in

16:28

a direct way, particularly in a constitutional

16:31

amendment or a referendum kind of way, that

16:34

abortion rights have been supported by voters pretty

16:37

consistently, even in red states like Kansas.

16:39

And legislatures that have been trying to put these bans

16:42

on are a little nervous, actually, that

16:44

their efforts may backfire in the

16:46

polls next time. So you're seeing some nervous

16:49

on the part of Republicans who are not sure how far

16:51

they want to go on this. Democrats are

16:53

obviously on the offense. They think it's a winning issue for

16:55

them. We'll see how that

16:57

plays out in the months to come.

16:59

We sure will. Peter Baker, Leanne Caldwell,

17:01

Glenn Kirshner, we had a lot to cover. You made us

17:03

smarter on every single topic. When

17:06

we come back, the chairman of the Oversight

17:08

Committee admits

17:10

Republicans have lost track

17:13

of the key informant in their

17:15

investigation into President Biden's family.

17:17

Former Congressman Max Rose and Tim Miller

17:20

are here on that. And later, the

17:22

CEO of ChatGPT is

17:24

set to testify before Congress

17:27

as lawmakers race to catch up

17:29

with AI. Good luck with that. Jake

17:31

Ward will break down what to expect. The 11th

17:33

hour just getting underway on a Monday night.

17:39

Did you know Instacart delivers more

17:41

than groceries? You can get tech, beauty,

17:43

office supplies, sporting goods and more all

17:46

delivered right to your door in as fast as an hour.

17:48

So whether you're cooking dinner or your phone

17:50

charger is cooked, you can save yourself multiple

17:53

trips by shopping over 1,000 stores in

17:55

the Instacart app. Visit Instacart.com

17:57

to get free delivery on your first three orders.

17:59

offer values for a limited time. $10 minimum

18:02

per order. Additional terms apply.

18:05

You can live out your MasterChef dreams. When

18:08

you find a professional on Angie to tackle

18:10

your dream kitchen remodel, connect

18:13

with skilled professionals to get all your home projects

18:16

done well. Visit Angie.com. You

18:18

can do this when you Angie that.

18:24

As Washington prepares for critical

18:26

debt ceiling talks, the House Oversight Committee

18:29

chair, Jim Comer, went on Fox

18:31

News this weekend, not to talk

18:33

about any of that, but instead to discuss

18:36

his investigation into members of Joe

18:38

Biden's family. Here's how it went.

18:41

You have spoken with whistleblowers. You

18:43

have spoken, you also spoke with

18:46

an informant who gave you all of this information.

18:48

Where is that informant today? Where are these

18:50

whistleblowers?

18:53

Well, unfortunately, we can't

18:55

track down the informant. We're hopeful

18:57

that the informant is still there. The whistleblower

19:00

knows the informant. The whistleblower is very

19:02

credible.

19:03

Hold on a second, Congressman. Did

19:05

you just say that the

19:07

whistleblower or the informant is now

19:09

missing? Well,

19:13

we're hopeful that

19:15

we could find the informant. Now remember, these informants

19:18

are kind of in the spy business,

19:21

so they don't make a habit of

19:24

being seen a lot or being high profile

19:26

or anything like that.

19:28

Let's discuss with former

19:30

Democratic New York Congressman Max Rose

19:33

and Tim Miller, a contributor to the bulwark and former

19:35

communications director for Jeb Bush. Max,

19:38

when you've got Maria Bartiromo

19:41

giving you a say what, you

19:44

got a problem. What is going on here? That

19:46

was one of the craziest things I have ever seen.

19:49

You know, when you can't even track down

19:52

your informant, when you're best-

19:54

Well, he's in the spy business. Yeah,

19:56

when you're best possible. is

20:00

to somehow insinuate that your

20:02

informant has been disappeared or something

20:05

else, you know you really

20:07

aren't on strong footing. But

20:10

let's take a step back and look at the larger

20:12

picture here. The Republican Party during

20:15

the course of the previous election ran

20:17

for the most part, particularly when they were actually

20:20

electorally successful, they were running

20:22

on bread and butter, kitchen

20:25

table issues,

20:26

immigration, inflation. Exactly.

20:28

Then suddenly they

20:31

actually have an opportunity to at least in

20:33

the House show real legislation

20:36

and they're incapable of it because

20:38

they actually have no real solutions,

20:41

they're just capable of fear-mongering, so

20:43

then they go back and they say oh my god we don't

20:45

have any policy solutions, what the hell do

20:47

we do? And

20:48

they chase after ghosts, they

20:51

go after family members, they

20:53

try to actually build out political

20:55

issues where there are none because they want

20:57

to scare the hell out of people and distract

20:59

them from the fact that they actually can't solve

21:02

any of their real problems and

21:04

that was the source, the root, the foundation

21:08

of that incredibly embarrassing interview.

21:10

Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani

21:13

did not make Maria Bartiromo

21:15

raise an eyebrow but Jim Comer's

21:18

investigation and the missing informant

21:21

did.

21:22

What voters are they doing this for,

21:24

Tim? Is this investigation popular?

21:27

Are

21:29

you sure that Maria wasn't raising an eyebrow because

21:31

she was intrigued by the conspiracy?

21:34

She has easily caught up in these sorts of

21:36

things.

21:36

No, she gave him a hold

21:38

on. We have not heard that from her in quite some time.

21:42

That's true. Well, they're

21:44

doing this for the base voters and I have an article in

21:47

the morning, the bull war coming out about this, about

21:49

what Comer is doing as part of an old play

21:52

book that goes back to the Clintons and

21:54

Vince Foster that we saw with

21:56

the Seth Rich conspiracy, which

21:58

is implying that

23:57

when

24:00

he was kissing up to him. Sure. Reading the

24:02

build the wall. When he was reading a children's book

24:04

version of build the wall, when he had his kids

24:06

with little blacks building one. Yes.

24:08

You know that will never go away. So

24:11

here's the thing. Ron DeSantis

24:13

is fundamentally misreading the Republican

24:16

base. They want a fighter. That's

24:18

his version of attacking Donald Trump. Talking

24:21

about a culture of losing. So

24:23

afraid to even mention

24:25

the guy's name. It's embarrassing.

24:28

There's one thing that Ron DeSantis has done

24:30

well thus far in a presidential

24:33

campaign. He doesn't even yet have the courage to officially

24:35

announce. And that is to set

24:37

such low expectations

24:40

for himself that when he acts like a human

24:42

being for 30 seconds or more,

24:44

now the media praises, hey, he might

24:47

have a chance because he can have a normal

24:49

conversation. This is

24:51

the

24:52

incredibly embarrassing.

24:55

The only thing that was more embarrassing was Calmer's

24:57

interview that we just discussed.

24:58

Tim, I don't know if Max is right. We've seen

25:00

Ron DeSantis fight. He's been fighting with Mickey

25:03

Mouse for weeks, if not months at

25:05

this point. What is your take?

25:08

I'm not sure that Mickey Mouse fight is a winner.

25:10

But I think that he is close to

25:12

being close to onto something. Don't make me

25:15

defend Ron DeSantis stuff. But I

25:18

think his best elevator pitch against

25:20

Trump is not only did

25:22

I win in Florida while you lost,

25:25

but I got this stuff, this

25:27

really far right conservative stuff

25:29

done while you failed. You know, you

25:31

didn't build the wall. You didn't stand up to Fauci.

25:34

I did. Now, he hasn't had the

25:36

courage, to Max's point, to actually do that

25:38

to Trump's face yet. Maybe he's capable of that.

25:40

Maybe he's not left to see. But I think this is

25:43

like dipping that first toe into the pool

25:45

of the place that he has to go if he

25:47

wants to have a chance.

25:49

Before I let you go, we talk often about

25:51

the media. We talk about young voters. Vice

25:54

News announced this morning that they are filing

25:57

for bankruptcy. Tim, they were

25:59

the.

27:59

that think what we're finding here is

28:02

that it it's not just a new tool

28:04

right earn media really matters

28:06

the old tried and true stuff really

28:09

really matters for young voters

28:11

but what is also critical is there

28:13

i totally unplugged from

28:15

normal she'll modes

28:18

of t v and you've got to go direct

28:20

to them clearly with digital

28:22

direct to them clearly with other

28:24

forms of social but

28:26

always staying true to the fact

28:28

that in politics just like it's

28:30

always been if you're not for

28:32

real if you're not truthful if you're not

28:35

courageous

28:36

it doesn't matter how you to reach people

28:38

they're going to see right through it a sniffer now

28:41

max or is tim miller thank you both for being here

28:43

we come back congress is getting a

28:45

lesson in a i as

28:48

it i as possible regulations

28:50

and tomorrow the man behind chat

28:53

gvt is in

28:55

the hot seat for a see what

28:57

are these hearings ever result in what

28:59

to expect in the eleventh hour continues

29:10

congress may be gearing up to take

29:12

on artificial intelligence tomorrow

29:14

the maker of chat gp t open

29:16

a i c e o sam altman

29:18

will appear before senate panel

29:21

as number of points out they will turn to

29:23

altman to answer the all important question

29:26

what

29:26

is a i hear didn't discuss

29:28

it all nbc news tech correspondent jake

29:30

ward who has a documentary coming

29:32

out this week on

29:35

all things ai you do not want to miss

29:37

it on peacock joke what are you

29:39

looking for in this hearing because the

29:41

headline is so important they're bringing

29:43

in sort of that need man

29:45

behind charge gpc the guy who understands

29:47

all things ai but in my experience

29:50

these

29:50

hearings will result in anything you

29:54

are you know resume you heard right to bear the

29:56

histories with this kind of turkey ring

29:58

in the past and stuff I'm thinking about, you know, Orrin

30:01

Hatch asking Mark Zuckerberg, Mrs. Zuckerberg, how do

30:03

you make money? And him saying, you know, Senator, we

30:05

sell ads and the whole room busts out laughing.

30:08

You know, those sorts of grandfatherly moments. I

30:10

think we've moved beyond that. We certainly know we

30:12

have regulators like Lena Kahn, the

30:15

chairperson of the FTC, you know, saying

30:17

that we have the power to regulate

30:19

AI using the laws we have now. We have

30:21

a whole new generation of tech literate

30:24

staffers helping senators think this

30:26

stuff through. One of the big questions for

30:28

me, I hope that they will ask Sam

30:30

Altman tomorrow is why is it

30:33

that such a small, rarefied

30:35

number of companies are in charge of AI? Because

30:37

the illusion, Steph, right, is that there's a million

30:39

companies launching. It's a great equalizer,

30:41

this amazing neutral technology. That

30:44

is not true at the moment. Right now, it costs the

30:46

money that only the companies

30:48

like Google and Meta and Microsoft

30:50

have, Meta, which I mean Microsoft, which owns

30:53

OpenAI, only those companies can afford making

30:55

this thing right now. And everybody's basically borrowing

30:58

the large language models, the big foundational models

30:59

that they're creating. And so there's

31:02

that we have to get at, right? Are we really ready to trust

31:04

these companies again with a new transformative

31:06

thing, the way we trust them with search, we trust

31:09

them with social media? And then the second thing is, Mr.

31:11

Altman, what do you believe about the future?

31:13

Because when you get into the conversations he's had on things

31:15

like podcasts, it's pretty interesting

31:17

the vision that these guys tend to have

31:20

at the top of these companies for, you

31:22

know, just how huge

31:24

the societal effect will be, how pervasive

31:27

it will be, and how limited their experience

31:29

is in fighting things

31:29

like racist systems and

31:32

inequality. And so we're really talking

31:34

about, you know, the keys to the kingdom sliding

31:36

to these guys at a time when we really need

31:38

to be asking what they are going to do with those key

31:40

stuff.

31:41

And right now, they're self-regulating.

31:43

And if it doesn't work, and if there's massive

31:46

societal or economic damage,

31:49

these businesses can just tear

31:51

them up and move on and go to their

31:53

mega mansions in Hawaii. Is

31:56

the government prepared to do

31:58

something? Because as you said it...

32:00

There was research, there was social media, and

32:03

the government did nothing, and there's been disastrous

32:05

impacts.

32:09

Well, hopefully by now, senators have gotten

32:11

the message that that lack of regulation behind the

32:13

big search giants and the big social media giants

32:16

have created literally the fuel supply

32:18

for AI. That is why it's

32:21

no coincidence that a company like Meta, a company

32:23

like Google, a company like Microsoft have

32:25

these kinds of models being built. It's because they had this

32:28

unregulated collection of data from all

32:30

of us over the last 20 years. So hopefully they've learned

32:32

something about that. And then there is

32:34

the hope, the goal here,

32:37

that there's some sort

32:38

of understanding that this is going to go far

32:40

beyond just whether we have a job

32:42

in the future. It's going to go far beyond the grappling

32:45

that writers in Hollywood are having right now around,

32:47

will AI do my job in the future? It's going to go

32:49

to things like who gets a job, who

32:51

gets a loan, who gets bail. We

32:54

talked to a lawyer in Baltimore the other day who's regularly

32:57

representing clients, who've been wrongly denied government benefits

32:59

because government agencies are increasingly using off-the-shelf

33:03

AI systems to determine who gets SNAP

33:05

benefits, who gets Section 8 housing, and

33:07

when something goes wrong and a mistake is made, you can't get

33:09

anybody on the phone. I think those stories are starting

33:11

to trickle upstairs into the senators'

33:13

ears, and hopefully they're going to get on

33:16

board with the understanding that we have to regulate

33:18

this in some way in the way that we failed to regulate

33:20

social media and search.

33:22

Well then let's just say right there, hopefully is

33:24

a long shot because of how

33:26

we failed in social media and search.

33:29

However, the European Union is considering

33:31

AI legislation this week. Could

33:34

that provide a model for what we could

33:36

do here?

33:39

I personally think it does.

33:41

I mean, it divides AI into risk

33:44

levels. And what's interesting is that at the highest risk

33:46

levels, it's not just stuff like your medical data

33:49

and military stuff. It's also talking

33:51

about the truth. Are people using

33:53

it to manipulate public opinion? Then

33:56

that's an unacceptable risk level,

33:58

and that would be banned. That sort of thing is a...

33:59

big deal. And I will say, you know, the

34:02

EU is specifically not included

34:05

in the list of 180 countries where Google's

34:07

barred, the answer to chat GPT, is

34:09

being released. The EU is not on a

34:12

list. And so the fact that Google

34:14

recognizes, oh, we're not going to be entirely

34:16

in compliance with

34:18

the GDPR, the big privacy regulation

34:21

in Europe, means they take that seriously

34:23

and these companies don't like to make different products for different

34:26

companies, for different countries. So maybe the

34:28

fact that the EU is moving forward on this could

34:30

conceivably set a law on this. I mean, I will also

34:32

point out, Steph, we talk about, you hear a lot from tech

34:35

leaders that, you know, we're going to fall behind China if

34:37

we somehow regulate ourselves

34:39

out of competitiveness. But even China

34:42

a

34:42

month ago has regulations

34:43

that slap all kinds

34:45

of restrictions on companies, including

34:48

it makes companies liable for what Chinese

34:50

citizens or anybody does with

34:52

the AI built by that company. The fact that

34:54

they're doing that puts them way out in front

34:56

of us on regulation. So this argument that I think

34:58

you're going to hear from Sam Altman and others that somehow

35:01

regulation will slow us down and make us uncompetitive.

35:03

We are not seeing that in the world stage. It's certainly

35:06

not where the EU and China are concerned, Steph. All

35:08

right. Well, our audience right now, much like

35:10

our lawmakers, needs to get more educated

35:13

in the world of AI. And

35:15

thanks to you, they can. The documentary

35:17

will be airing 10.30 p.m.

35:19

on Peacock and YouTube. You don't want

35:21

to miss it. What's the name of it, Jake?

35:25

It's called the power of AI, both

35:27

the power of those companies and the power

35:29

that all of the people who are at the

35:31

tops of those companies are wheeled over

35:33

and over all of us, Steph.

35:35

Exciting, scary, all

35:37

courtesy of Jake Ward. Coming

35:39

up, my one on one with Chassen Buttigieg,

35:42

what he hopes young people can learn from

35:44

his story when the 11th hour continues.

35:53

Republican controlled state legislatures

35:56

are targeting LGBTQ plus

35:58

rights all over the country. According

36:01

to the ACLU, over 400

36:04

anti-LGBTQ bills have been

36:06

introduced just this year. I

36:08

sat down earlier today with Chasen Buttigieg,

36:10

the husband of Transportation Secretary Pete

36:13

Buttigieg, to talk about his new book,

36:15

I Have Something to Tell You, on the challenges

36:17

he faced growing up and how to support

36:20

LGBTQ youth today.

36:23

You are just back from

36:25

being in your hometown of Traverse

36:27

City, a place where it was not so

36:29

easy to grow up you.

36:31

What was it like to go home with

36:34

a book in your hand, a guide to help

36:36

young people just like you? I was

36:38

overwhelmed. I haven't felt nerves like that

36:41

since, you know, community theater plays, because

36:43

it mattered so much to go home and have

36:46

those kinds of conversations at home

36:48

and to meet the young people that were there.

36:51

How do you consider this book? If

36:53

it's not a memoir, it's for

36:55

young... is it a self-help book? I

36:58

think it's a little bit of everything. It's the book I

37:00

wish I would have had in eighth grade. When I was

37:02

growing up in northern Michigan at the time, I thought I was the only

37:04

gay person in the world. I thought something was wrong

37:06

with me. And this is the book that I wish

37:09

he could have read to

37:10

help him understand that there was nothing wrong with

37:12

him. And you know, he was

37:14

great just the way he was. We have come a long

37:17

way since then, but

37:19

the LGBTQ plus community is

37:21

clearly under attack today. Do

37:24

you think it's easier or harder to come

37:26

out in 2023? A

37:28

little bit of both. I think it was getting

37:30

better. I remember growing up and

37:32

everyone kept saying it gets better, it gets better. And it

37:35

did in some ways. Marriage equality didn't

37:37

exist. I never thought I would get to be a dad. But

37:39

because it was getting better, I think some people are now

37:41

focused on making it worse.

37:43

Why is that? Right? Things

37:45

were getting better and now they're worse. What caused

37:48

that? Well, it works

37:50

for the other side. They throw everything

37:52

at the wall. What sticks? Attacking the

37:55

LGBTQ community. Attack some of the most vulnerable kids

37:58

in this country. So imagine growing up in this country. now,

38:00

when you have social media, you have the world at your fingertips

38:02

and you watch people like your governor or

38:04

your representative going into buildings

38:07

in positions of power and doing everything

38:09

they can, all of that platform, all

38:11

of that privilege to attack you,

38:13

a young LGBTQ person. You're

38:16

their number one thing to work on.

38:18

Are you afraid that this book

38:20

could get banned or just

38:22

be inaccessible to young

38:24

people in some of those vulnerable conservative

38:27

communities, the people who maybe need to read this the most?

38:29

Yeah, I'm a dad and I taught

38:31

middle school. So I wrote a completely age

38:34

appropriate book. So if it's banned,

38:36

it's just politics. But I am worried about

38:38

it not being able to get into the hands of the people that need

38:40

it most. I hope folks will request

38:42

that their local library

38:44

carry it. So at least, you

38:46

know, a young person or a family might have

38:48

access to that.

38:50

But it's certainly something that I worry about.

38:52

What if that could change a life? What if it could help

38:54

somebody and they can't get it? I

38:56

want you to stay on the word help because to

38:58

me, this book isn't just for

39:01

kids who are just like you. It's

39:04

also for allies who just want to live

39:06

in a better world. Absolutely. I

39:08

hope teachers and parents will find comfort

39:11

in this book. And this is a season for active

39:13

allyship. That means doing more than posting

39:16

on social media. You have to get off the

39:18

couch and find a way to use your positions

39:20

of power or privilege or money or

39:22

time to help.

39:24

And helping can look like a

39:27

myriad of things for everyone.

39:29

But ask yourself, have I earned

39:31

the title of ally or

39:33

have I just given it to myself? If there

39:36

is one lesson, one anecdote, one story

39:38

in this book that

39:42

if you were an eighth grader, it would have meant

39:44

everything to you, what is it? I

39:47

could have benefited from a 10 second conversation

39:49

with my parents when I was younger. Ten seconds.

39:53

Who said what? Let me down and said, we just want you to know

39:55

that

39:55

you are loved no matter what unconditionally.

39:58

If you're gay, straight, no matter

40:00

what, you will always have a roof over your head

40:02

and you will always have two parents who love you. Imagine

40:05

if I could have heard that

40:07

and then poured myself into everything else that

40:09

young people should be paying attention to, sports,

40:11

academics, but for 18 years, I

40:14

hated myself because I was convinced that

40:16

my parents would hate me and then I would lose everything.

40:19

The number one thing I want young people to take away is

40:21

that there is goodness out here in

40:23

this world.

40:24

People do love you. People are fighting for you.

40:26

Parents sit down and

40:28

have that conversation. Right there. That

40:31

lesson is less to the eighth grader

40:34

and more to the parents, isn't it? It's not

40:36

that your parents didn't love you. They

40:38

obviously do. They were right by your side this

40:40

weekend. Yeah. They didn't

40:42

know to have that conversation. That's the ending

40:44

of that story. I ran away from home

40:46

and my parents called me back

40:48

and people can come around. People

40:51

can learn. People can be loving and accepting

40:53

and they can grow just like my parents.

40:55

And I just want to go back to where we started. To

40:58

go back this weekend and

41:00

be in your hometown, a place

41:03

where as a young person you couldn't find

41:06

your place. How incredible

41:08

does it feel that there's a community

41:11

there welcoming you, lining up to come see

41:13

you speak? The world comes around. I

41:15

promise my parents were there. Some

41:18

friends I made after high school, we weren't

41:20

friends in high school, but we became close friends. The

41:23

kindergarten teacher was there

41:27

to know that your community is there

41:30

and supports you, but especially for a place like

41:32

Northern Michigan that a

41:34

sold out crowd of people

41:37

wanted to have that conversation, wanted to

41:39

hear what you had to say because there are people in

41:41

Northern Michigan and places like Northern Michigan across

41:43

this country who want to make things

41:46

better. You might not see that on

41:48

the news every day,

41:49

but believe me, people come around.

41:52

Does that give you hope that any community, any

41:54

state, any city, any demographic can

41:56

change if they open their hearts and minds?

41:58

Absolutely. on the ground

42:00

doing the hard work. We just have to uplift

42:03

those voices more. Thank you.

42:05

Thank you so much for your time. Congratulations. Thanks

42:07

for having me.

42:10

Coming up, using your platform

42:13

to support others. The special shout

42:15

outs at this year's 34th annual

42:17

GLAAD Awards when the 11th hour continues.

42:22

Did you know Instacart delivers more

42:24

than groceries? You can get tech, beauty,

42:27

office supplies, sporting goods, and more all

42:29

delivered right to your door in as fast as an hour.

42:31

So whether you're cooking dinner or your phone

42:34

charger is cooked, you can save yourself multiple

42:36

trips by shopping over 1000 stores in

42:38

the Instacart app. Visit Instacart.com

42:41

to get free delivery on your first three orders. Offer

42:43

valid for a limited time. $10 minimum per

42:45

order. Additional terms apply.

42:48

You can start your day off right.

42:51

When you find a professional on Angie to get

42:53

your plumbing

42:54

right first. Connect

42:57

with skilled professionals to get all your home projects

42:59

done well. Visit Angie.com. You

43:01

can do this when you Angie that.

43:08

The last thing before we go tonight,

43:11

so GLAAD for GLAAD. The

43:13

Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation

43:16

is the world's largest LGBTQ

43:18

plus media advocacy organization.

43:21

What does that mean? They ensure important

43:23

stories from their community are seen

43:25

and heard. Well, on Saturday night, this

43:28

show, the 11th hour, is grateful

43:30

to have been honored to receive an award from

43:32

GLAAD for outstanding live TV

43:34

journalism segment or special for our

43:36

segment on Spirit Day. It's a

43:38

day in October when Americans wear purple

43:41

to show support for LGBTQ

43:43

youth and take a stand against bullying.

43:46

We highlighted some troubling statistics

43:48

about why this issue is so important

43:51

in an effort to make sure these young people

43:53

know they are not alone. Other outstanding

43:56

journalism awards went

43:58

to the following. The Scripps News. documentary

44:00

series in real life for their segment

44:03

on HIV in the Deep South. ABC

44:05

News for their Soul of a Nation special,

44:08

Pride to be Seen.

44:10

Time Magazine for their article on

44:12

pediatricians who serve trans youth

44:15

facing increasing harassment.

44:17

And the Daily Beast article, Alabama trying

44:19

to raise the legal driving age for trans

44:21

people to 19. President

44:24

and CEO of GLAAD, Sarah Kate Ellis took some time

44:26

to address the increase in laws

44:29

against the community. Watch this.

44:31

There's one thing that extremist

44:34

politicians and activists

44:36

can never ban.

44:38

And that's our joy. We

44:41

are not going to let them, anyone

44:43

tell our stories or villainize who

44:45

we are. When the truth

44:48

is everyone deserves to live a life

44:50

happily ever after. Yes.

44:53

So raise your voices.

45:00

So raise your voices, take

45:03

action with GLAAD, get loud

45:06

and stay proud. And

45:09

we are loud and proud to have the GLAAD

45:11

Awards take us off the air tonight. And

45:14

on that note, I wish you a very good night.

45:16

From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC

45:18

News, thanks for staying up late. I'll

45:21

see you at the end of tomorrow.

45:27

You can live out your master chef dreams.

45:30

When you find a professional on Angie to tackle

45:33

your dream kitchen remodel, connect

45:36

with skilled professionals to get all your home projects

45:38

done well. Visit Angie.com. You

45:40

can do this

45:41

when you Angie that.