0:00

Time for a quick break to talk about

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McDonald's. Mornings are for mixing and matching at

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McDonald's. For just $3, mix and match two

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of your favorite breakfast items, including a

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sausage McMuffin. Tonight,

0:26

Donald Trump's so-called fake electors have

0:29

been charged in Arizona, along with

0:31

key Trump aides after a year-long

0:33

investigation by the state attorney general.

0:36

Plus, we are hours away from

0:38

Supreme Court arguments on Trump's total

0:40

immunity claim and more testimony in

0:43

his New York criminal trial, what

0:45

to expect in the very busy

0:47

day ahead. Then, an Idaho

0:49

doctor is here on the real-life impact

0:51

of the state's abortion ban while the

0:53

legal battle plays out in the

0:55

nation's highest court. The 11th

0:58

hour gets underway on this Wednesday night.

1:07

Good evening. Once again, I'm Stephanie Ruhl, and

1:09

we are now officially 195 days away from

1:11

the election. And

1:15

tonight, Donald Trump is now unindicted

1:17

co-conspirator number one in a

1:20

sprawling criminal case, another one

1:22

involving our elections. 11

1:25

so-called fake electors who supported Trump in the

1:27

2020 election have been

1:29

indicted by an Arizona grand jury.

1:31

It comes after a year-long investigation

1:33

by the state's attorney general. One

1:36

month after the election, 11 Trump

1:39

supporters signed a certificate claiming to

1:41

be Arizona's electors. But President Biden

1:43

won the state by more than

1:45

10,000 votes, and

1:48

his electors were certified. Among

1:50

the people facing charges, Kelly

1:52

Ward, the former head of

1:54

the Arizona GOP, and two

1:56

state lawmakers. Key Trump allies

1:58

also indicted, including Rudy- Giuliani

2:00

and Mark Meadows. Donald Trump is

2:02

of course already facing 88 criminal

2:05

charges in four separate jurisdictions,

2:08

and in less than 12 hours, he will

2:10

be back in court for another day of

2:12

testimony in his New York criminal trial. And

2:14

at the very same time, some of his

2:17

other attorneys will appear in front of

2:19

the Supreme Court on his behalf. Tomorrow

2:22

the court will hear arguments related

2:24

to Trump's claim that he has

2:26

total presidential immunity, meaning he is

2:28

shielded from prosecution in the federal

2:30

election interference case. It is

2:33

Trump's latest tactic to delay Jack Smith's

2:35

case, and so far the Supreme Court

2:37

has not made much of an effort to resolve

2:39

it quickly. In the New

2:41

York case, we are still waiting

2:43

on a decision from Judge Marchand

2:45

about whether Trump violated his partial

2:47

gag order. We are also expecting

2:49

to hear more testimony from prosecution

2:51

witness David Pecker, former publisher of

2:53

The National Enquirer and longtime friend

2:55

and ally of Donald Trump. With

2:58

that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff

3:00

panel, and I've got two all-stars with me in New

3:02

York. Mark Leibovich joins us

3:04

from DC, soft writer for The Atlantic.

3:06

Harry Lippmann is here, former U.S.

3:09

Attorney and former Deputy Assistant Attorney

3:11

General and former federal prosecutor and

3:13

MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirshner. Harry,

3:16

let's start in Arizona. I want you

3:18

to lay out for us what

3:20

these indictments are, what this whole thing means,

3:22

because so much has happened. There's

3:25

a lot of people going, wait a minute, what

3:27

was the big election scheme again? It's

3:29

true, and it sort of washes over

3:32

us so much as happening today. But

3:34

look, these are serious charges. This is

3:36

a brazen attempt to steal the election

3:39

from the rightful winner. The 11 electors

3:41

get together and say, we'll

3:44

sign certificates saying we're the rightful electors

3:46

in Arizona, which of course they aren't

3:48

and they know they aren't. And they

3:50

conspired to do it with some pretty

3:53

high-up associates of the

3:55

former president, including Mark

3:57

Meadows, including Jenna Ellis.

4:00

including Rudy Giuliani. And

4:02

you know, we see it as just another

4:04

chapter. But really, if you stop

4:06

and think about it, it's a serious effort

4:10

to steal an election, cover hold

4:12

serious penalties five years or so,

4:15

and involves people who could really

4:18

give damaging testimony against the former

4:20

president who is an indicted

4:22

conspirator, number one in this one.

4:26

Mark, two weeks before these fake

4:28

electors signed that certificate, Donald Trump

4:30

himself called into an Arizona hearing

4:32

on election integrity. I want you

4:34

to watch this clip. I

4:38

just say that I want to thank you. We're going to

4:40

win this thing. We're not giving up We

4:43

lost Arizona by 9,000 votes.

4:45

That's a tiny fraction. That

4:48

would be a half a day, a couple of hours

4:50

of checking. And we didn't lose

4:52

the state. We didn't lose the state. We

4:54

won it by a lot. I want

4:56

to thank Rudy and his team for

4:58

doing such an incredible job. We

5:05

are going to fight. We're taking it up

5:08

all the way. We have additional cases being

5:10

filed, probably tomorrow

5:12

in Wisconsin and

5:14

in Georgia. And they're good cases. They're

5:17

very strong cases by great lawyers and

5:19

with great facts. Those

5:23

two people you saw in the video where

5:25

two of the names Harry just mentioned Rudy

5:27

Giuliani and Jenna Ellis. Mark,

5:31

I want you to walk us through this because

5:33

when we say our democracy is on the ballot,

5:35

that washes over a lot of people and they're

5:37

like, yeah, what do you mean? We

5:40

mean this. And how important

5:42

is this in terms

5:44

of this case going to court? Well,

5:48

I mean, on an individual basis, I mean,

5:50

as Harry said, I mean, this stands alone.

5:52

I mean, this is an extremely damning case.

5:54

And if you look at it in its

5:56

entirety from Georgia to Nevada to Michigan to

5:58

the January 6th case. to the whole gamut

6:01

of this whole thing, it

6:03

is very sprawling and it's damning,

6:05

both collectively certainly, but also in

6:08

its individual cases. And I

6:10

think what's interesting about the Arizona case is

6:12

that it adds another level or another layer

6:14

of all this. I mean, to some degree,

6:16

like the Georgia case, it's a

6:18

local case, it's a state case, right?

6:21

I mean, it's outside the reach of

6:23

the federal governments and the pardon power,

6:25

certainly. Also like Georgia, if there's a

6:27

trial or when there's a trial, it's

6:29

gonna be televised. So I

6:32

mean, these are two specific to

6:34

the two states that are at work

6:36

here. So look, it kind of localizes

6:38

the issue in some

6:40

ways. And yes, I mean, I think it's damning, but

6:42

also it's damning in a unique way that people in

6:44

Arizona can pay attention to. And look,

6:46

I mean, it's obviously a very hotly contested

6:49

state. And again, so I think if

6:51

you sort of look at it and like both in terms

6:53

of a small and a big issue and it just

6:55

sprawled in many directions, this is another instance of that. Glenn,

6:58

what do you think about this? You

7:00

know, I was trying to diagram out,

7:02

Steph, all of the different defendants and

7:04

all of the different, you can't read

7:07

my note. I could be a doctor

7:09

with handwriting like that. I mean, let me

7:11

tell you, Glenn Persner has got some nerdy

7:13

notes. I'm so glad to see you in

7:15

person, wow. So Steph, here's the thing. As

7:18

a prosecutor, when I was handling

7:20

gang cases and RICO cases, I

7:22

wanted to develop as many cooperating

7:24

witnesses as I could, right? And

7:26

what did we do? We tried

7:28

to pressure people. We tried to

7:30

drive wedges between people. We have

7:32

a saying in DC Circle. Circle's

7:34

pressure bursts pipes. Now, look at

7:37

the charges, again, somebody like a

7:39

Rudy Giuliani, right? I have to

7:41

go to my chart here. Rudy

7:43

is an indicted co-conspirator in Georgia.

7:45

He's an unindicted co-conspirator in DC.

7:47

He's an indicted co-conspirator in Arizona.

7:49

He's an unindicted co-conspirator in Michigan

7:52

based on the new reporting. He

7:54

has his law license suspended in

7:56

New York and DC pending disbarment.

7:59

He owes... was the election workers

8:01

$148 million. How

8:03

much more pressure can some of these

8:05

people take before they decide, okay, I'm

8:07

going to give up the ghost. It's

8:09

time for me to cooperate. Jenna Ellis,

8:11

I think is a really interesting one

8:14

because she pleaded guilty down in Georgia.

8:16

Now she pops up as an indicted co-conspirator

8:19

in Arizona. Usually defendants like to

8:21

resolve their cases globally. They like

8:23

to plead guilty in all of

8:25

their cases so they can get

8:27

as much benefit with the prosecutors.

8:30

Maybe she didn't see this one coming. Maybe she didn't,

8:32

but I would have thought they would

8:34

have because Chesbrough, right, Chesbrough cooperated down

8:36

in Georgia. He's an unindicted co-conspirator. What

8:39

does that say? He's probably cooperating in

8:41

Arizona. That's why I need the diagram.

8:43

It's hard to make all of these

8:45

pieces fit at the moment. What

8:48

does an unindicted co-conspirator mean? Because

8:50

that's what Donald Trump is in

8:52

Arizona and he's also an unindicted

8:54

co-conspirator in Michigan. What does it

8:56

mean? What does it mean, A,

8:59

and does it mean down the line he could

9:01

be indicted? Exactly. Remember,

9:03

Donald Trump is the indicted

9:06

defendant in the DC election

9:08

interference case and there are

9:10

multiple unindicted co-conspirators like Mark

9:12

Meadows and Rudy Giuliani and

9:14

Sidney Powell, John Eastman

9:16

and Jeffrey Clark, the corrupt former

9:18

DOJ official. What does it mean?

9:21

It means they're going to be indicted at some point in

9:23

the future. They can't indict him until some of these

9:25

people flip on him? I

9:27

think the reason Jack Smith is waiting in

9:30

the DC case is because he wants to

9:32

bang out the Trump case, resolve it, then

9:34

he'll go after the unindicted co-conspirators. But let

9:37

me add this to complicate matters even more,

9:39

Steph. Just because you're an

9:41

unindicted co-conspirator doesn't mean you will

9:43

necessarily be indicted. Like I say,

9:45

lots of moving pieces. Okay, not

9:48

necessarily. But he's now facing

9:50

this on top of 88 criminal charges. If

9:54

you're on Donald Trump's big legal team, right, he's

9:56

got some in New York tomorrow, he's got some

9:58

in DC. telling him

10:00

tonight? Please don't fire me. But

10:02

in addition to that, yeah, look, this does.

10:04

Why wouldn't he? He needs some now more

10:07

than ever. No, but that's a good way

10:09

to get a delay. It's the final sort

10:11

of a stratagem of scoundrels. But, but put

10:13

that. Explain that. No, no, no. One

10:16

thing that someone does, if for a last gasp

10:18

effort to get a delay is fire their counsel,

10:20

which they're permitted to do, and then say, I've

10:22

got my new counsel and I need that person

10:25

to get up to speed. Judge Murchand will not

10:27

permit it. He'll say, you have a two counsel

10:29

there. It'll be fine. But let me get back

10:31

to this big diagram and try

10:34

to simplify it. Two cohorts of

10:36

indicted people, the 11 folks in

10:38

Arizona who are unlike the Trump

10:41

loyalists in Washington, they have careers

10:43

to consider. They really are low

10:46

hanging fruit to cooperate against whom.

10:48

Some of them actually spoke with

10:50

Trump, but certainly the other sort

10:53

of seven. And now you go

10:55

to that seven, the Jenna Ellis's

10:58

of the world, the Rudy Giuliani's,

11:00

everything that Glenn says holds. And

11:02

one more thing, they are broke

11:04

and Jenna Ellis is broke. So

11:06

the pressure is also financial pressure

11:08

to defend this case. And what

11:10

do you do if you're broke

11:13

and you have a lot of

11:15

pressure? You cooperate where you can.

11:17

And that means that this case

11:19

is increases the already intense pressure

11:21

on Trump. Pressure bursts pipes.

11:23

Mark, this Arizona story is coming

11:25

out while all of these other

11:27

Trump cases are going on. It

11:30

feels like a legal tsunami and

11:32

we are now just over six months away

11:34

from the election. What are voters

11:36

likely to make of all of this? Well,

11:40

I mean, I think, you know, there's a big

11:42

blur factor to this whole thing. There is a

11:44

big maw of legal stuff that is sort of

11:47

washing over everything. But if you sort of buy

11:49

the probably somewhat simplistic

11:51

notion, but still an

11:53

important notion that if the

11:56

conversation is about Trump and Trump's legal

11:58

troubles and things that Trump's. that is

12:00

on a day-to-day and they're not focused on,

12:02

say, you know, in Arizona, things like the

12:05

border or inflation, things that maybe Biden has

12:07

been vulnerable on. You know, this is all

12:09

a very, very good set

12:12

of facts for the Biden campaign. And it's

12:14

not good for Biden or for Trump to

12:16

be talked about in this way over a

12:18

long period of time. I mean, it

12:20

also looks like it's just, this is going to be

12:22

a long haul. I mean, there is just a, it is

12:24

just an exhausting thing to try to follow. But it's

12:26

also, as mentioned here, it's

12:29

extremely important. It's extremely central

12:31

to the democratic process. And,

12:34

you know, as every day

12:36

passes, it's going to be clear that this is going to

12:38

be a major story going forward in this election. Glenn,

12:41

could this Arizona indictment affect any of

12:43

the other cases for Fawny Willis, for

12:45

Jack Smith? Oh, it sure

12:47

could. There's a lot of cross-pollination of

12:49

defendants. And so I was a

12:51

little surprised down in the Georgia Rico case. 19 were

12:54

indicted, four pleaded guilty

12:57

pretty early on. And then

12:59

all cooperation seems to have stopped.

13:02

And 15 are pending trial

13:04

in Georgia. But now there are

13:07

indicted defendants in common, the

13:09

Georgia case and now the Arizona

13:11

case. And because pressure burst pipes,

13:13

it may very well be that

13:15

this will help produce more cooperating

13:17

witnesses. Because if some of these

13:19

people plead guilty in the Arizona

13:21

case, those same defendants who

13:24

are pending charges in Georgia will almost

13:26

certainly want to resolve the Georgia case

13:28

as well. So it could help the

13:30

Fawny Willis case. The

13:32

Georgia case, why is it quiet right now, right?

13:34

The last time we were talking about it, we

13:36

weren't talking about any of the defendants. We weren't

13:39

talking about Donald Trump. It was all about Fawny

13:41

Willis and her conduct. It's kind of been dead

13:43

quiet since. It has. And There

13:45

was that long distraction, right? And Now

13:47

that that is behind us, I would

13:49

expect to see, for example, Judge McAfee

13:52

finally set a trial date. You Know,

13:54

there was a request long ago from

13:56

Fawny Willis for an August 2nd trial

13:58

date for at. Lars at least

14:00

the first wave of Rico defendants. I don't

14:03

know that she can trial fifteen at once.

14:05

We usually to sort of parcel out the

14:07

Rico defendants when we have that many and

14:10

we do a series of trials, but it's

14:12

been radio silence. We don't even have a

14:14

trial date set down, and George's dad is

14:16

probably going to change soon. Or

14:19

I. Don't. Go anywhere. Everybody is

14:21

sitting around his blazer. New York.

14:23

The. Gotta say we return Rooney Disease

14:25

or into chances are they talal.

14:28

Not only is as New York

14:30

trial picking that up. That.

14:32

Our nation's highest court will. Finally, see

14:34

or as historic immunity claims

14:37

and later federal law requires

14:39

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That is how emergency rooms

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it again. Uncle Tom's Aspen Test. Tomorrow

15:46

will be a very big day for Donald

15:49

Trump. He'll be back in court in New

15:51

York for a criminal trial. While some as

15:53

his attorneys argued his presidential immunity series in

15:55

front of the Supreme court has neither, they're

15:57

tearing. That means I'm person or so. Harry,

16:00

What are the chances? What are the

16:03

chances? What are the chances? The.

16:05

Supreme Court agrees with Trump

16:07

on presidential immunity. Zero.

16:11

At the end of the

16:13

day, Trump will not win

16:15

based on immunity, but the

16:17

game here that everyone's focused

16:19

on is the timeline because

16:21

with the Supreme Court may

16:23

well do is states some

16:25

broader principle of when president

16:28

sometimes not Trump are immune

16:30

and that itself could add

16:32

a month or two to

16:34

the already kind of leisurely

16:36

scheduled they're following and I

16:38

could pretty much eliminate prospect.

16:40

Of a trial on this most important

16:42

of the cases I would argue this

16:45

year. To learn, What do you think?

16:47

Liz Cheney has been making a point of

16:49

the Supreme Court? Basically assets get on it

16:51

because it's a know. this is never going

16:54

to see the light of the day and

16:56

all of the evidence that Jack Smith has

16:58

put together. Emergency. Wilson see.

17:01

How. Quickly did the Supreme court

17:03

resolve the question of whether Donald

17:05

Trump can beyond the presidential ballot

17:07

like that. Show how did this

17:09

leisure a leap a safe sex

17:12

while the American people are waiting

17:14

to see whether come November when

17:16

we go to the polls people

17:18

are going to be casting their

17:20

ballots for a convicted felon or

17:23

completely innocent, fully exonerated man are

17:25

you know I share. Harrys concerned

17:27

that of the supreme court decides

17:29

they wanna talk about outer perimeter.

17:31

Immunity. Maybe a few you know

17:33

you couldn't commit. a little light

17:36

trees and around the edges. Maybe

17:38

the President should have immunity for

17:40

that. And if they send it

17:42

back to Judge Trust and for

17:44

more evidentiary hearings on questions like

17:46

that, then we're all kind of.

17:49

Screwed. Can I say Screwed. This. Isn't that isn't

17:51

the sort. Of I have some land and

17:53

sea and then the trial gets pushed

17:55

well beyond the November election. My hope

17:57

is they resolve it. They resolved quickly

17:59

and. The judge truck in puts it

18:01

back on the trial track, gives that

18:03

gives Trump the eighty eight days. She

18:05

said she would give him until the

18:07

trial and maybe August First we could

18:10

actually have a trial day long. All

18:12

this food. Donald Trump will be

18:14

hooked up in the grandest possible

18:16

sasson, and that's kind of the

18:19

point here. Mark Nice Supreme court

18:21

arguments are about a presidential candidate

18:23

claiming that the President of the

18:26

United States should and total legal

18:28

immunity. Call me naive, but this

18:30

seems like a vitally important things

18:33

for our country. To

18:35

understand the voters that ways or is

18:37

all of this says noise At this

18:39

point. Amazing.

18:42

Both and voters probably do see it

18:44

this way and refuge we're due to

18:46

president cannot be held accountable for pretty

18:48

much anything or whether as president or

18:50

send a president's is absurd. But as

18:52

the same time zone sort of added

18:54

to the larger specter of noises that

18:56

ever was living with dates you know

18:58

becomes much less compelling. I do think

19:00

that this is kind of the big

19:02

bang. Trial images go to Trial Farm

19:04

you know August would be as a

19:06

sort of a a perfect scenario for

19:08

people who want to see was played

19:10

out Mom you're given to see. A

19:12

a bunch of fat covered damning testimony potentially

19:14

and for Liz Cheney has visibility on is

19:17

given her work on a generous has commercials

19:19

arms that is going to be a very

19:21

big diversion. A truly national story Mr take

19:23

place in Georgia for Arizona or Michigan. Me:

19:26

this was the armed. You know this was

19:28

like the cruise the writ large of election

19:30

interference in it was the raid on the

19:33

capital and you know everything that we saw

19:35

an ad for a sick day so that

19:37

will be sued occasion. I think it's the

19:39

most palpable part of this whole story span.

19:42

Of epidemics from the center in the last three

19:44

months of the election has become very powerful. Plan.

19:47

Less saw this on our criminal trial. For.

19:50

The soccer. Long. Time.

19:52

Ally Friend as a set of

19:54

Donald Trump. Is now the

19:57

first witness for. The prosecution.

20:00

Roka down some for heavier

20:02

see trash. Talk to anyone

20:04

and everyone who does not

20:06

side with him. Yes, he

20:08

has been radio silence when

20:10

it comes to David Packers

20:12

and aside some supplies, railing

20:14

on Michael Cohen every day,

20:16

tomorrow and yesterday. What does

20:18

that tell you. About

20:20

Packer his trunk months. The

20:22

word tells me one of

20:24

two things. Who else? those

20:27

Donald Trump never criticize shows

20:29

a lean canon. Because.

20:31

He thinks Judge Cat and is

20:33

still gonna do him a solid

20:35

in the documents case down in

20:37

Florida. With respect to David Packers.

20:39

it is either because somehow he

20:41

thinks. David. Pecker is gonna do

20:43

him a solid in his testimony com

20:46

tomorrow. I think that unlikely because Packers

20:48

under a non prosecution agreements. So he

20:50

flipped the script and start saying good

20:52

stuff for Trump that the prosecutors don't

20:55

anticipate than Packers going to be in

20:57

trouble cause he could be prosecuted second

20:59

void others are not really are less

21:01

sort of the. Airports

21:03

V or is that Packard knows where

21:06

even more of Trump's bodies are best?

21:08

Bingo. Yeah, it's so he's a threat

21:10

is a threat. He doesn't want to

21:12

antagonize. Packers. But he also hasn't said

21:14

anything bad about Hope Hicks. so you know

21:17

I it's I think maybe he's trying to

21:19

see who his true enemies are and who

21:21

still may hold out and do a little

21:24

something for the Donald Trump. Sears, The

21:26

Packer, Harry, my colleagues Island or

21:28

a really interesting subsidise for a

21:30

central legal team is spending any

21:33

nor miss amount of time. Discussing.

21:36

That Donald Trump should not be

21:38

referred to as Mister Trump's he

21:40

needs me referred to as a

21:42

President of the United States. I

21:44

see are spending a huge amount

21:46

of time in court doing this.

21:48

This will have absolutely no impact

21:50

on the outcome of this case.

21:52

Know. What does that tell you

21:55

about their priorities and their focus?

21:57

Look. It's at sounds asinine

21:59

and. But it's part of a

22:01

bigger problem for them are you

22:03

saw his lawyer to be here?

22:05

It's absolutely bone chilling. Words from

22:07

the judge the other day: You're

22:09

losing all credibility with me. Why

22:11

is that? Because he's continually forced

22:13

to take positions that make trump

22:15

or good, even if there's no

22:17

support for them. To the whole

22:19

likes to call me a chimpanzee.

22:21

It's are gonna get me off clear legs set

22:23

of that. The The Sultan. That should be

22:26

the focus on what's the best strategy.

22:28

Probably what would Glenn have seen and

22:30

different cases to say? Yes, my clients

22:32

a sleaze bags but he's not a

22:35

criminal. That would have been the normal

22:37

strategies. Can't do that with Trump because

22:39

Trump is sitting there and he is

22:41

the worst client of all time and

22:43

hill and help be apoplectic at his

22:46

lawyers. So it's true he wants to

22:48

be mister President, but it is more

22:50

than that, he constrains his lawyers in

22:52

ways that very much undermine his own

22:54

legal prospects. Law I want to as

22:57

in talk about Mister President Joe Biden.

22:59

Martha. Reeves. Complaining on

23:01

and on that he should not have to

23:03

be in court that this trial is keeping

23:05

him off the campaign trail. But.

23:07

Today. There was no

23:09

trial and the Biden campaign put out

23:12

a statement about Trump's campaign events today.

23:14

He. Had none to solve an

23:16

activity today. Just so you. That.

23:19

He doesn't care whether or not the trial is

23:21

going on to see. Had a day to day

23:23

to day and with Tyson or Arizona or Florida

23:26

and into any of that. Your

23:29

honor the Confederacy at one hundred a

23:31

military to the it's pretty clear that

23:33

he does not want to. strode don't

23:35

normally does not wear disillusionment are all

23:37

the blessings of Border Point is this

23:39

losers know what attracts was going to

23:41

be getting healthier for this can include

23:43

them in a decision Is due North

23:46

Carolina last weekend but it was gonna

23:48

rain storm from standards as not other

23:50

than his legal troubles or doesn't really

23:52

know part of the term storage rearing

23:54

about right now spending so much as

23:56

you know he is predicated much was

23:58

political fortunes. of has been with victimization,

24:00

on being under siege, on being unfairly prosecuted,

24:02

targeted, what have you, and a lot of

24:05

his supporters, you know, identify with this and,

24:07

you know, he's hoping that more of them

24:09

will do so. I mean, I guess that's

24:11

a big part of the kind of meta

24:13

strategy, but it doesn't look like it's certainly

24:16

fun and it's not really edifying to listen

24:18

to and it doesn't look anything like a

24:20

campaign is supposed to look like and doesn't

24:22

make a case for any reason for anyone

24:24

they would only vote for. All

24:26

right then. Mark, Harry, Glenn, great

24:29

to have you all here. And before we

24:31

go to break, a quick update of our

24:33

DJT tracker following how Trump's media company is

24:35

doing. The stock closed at 35 bucks

24:38

a share today that is up more than 9% from

24:41

yesterday, but also today, Trump media CEO,

24:43

a name you may have forgotten, but

24:45

I'm going to bring him up, Devin

24:47

Nunes. Yes, that is the CEO of

24:49

this company. He asked

24:51

house Republicans to investigate what

24:54

he says is illegal manipulation

24:56

of the stock that is being done

24:58

by people trying to drive the price

25:00

down. To that, I

25:02

say, Mr. Nunes, good luck.

25:05

I'm happy to head on down to Florida

25:07

and give you a tutorial on how stock

25:10

manipulation works. It's not happening, but

25:12

for you, we're going to keep watching

25:14

truth media stock and make sure you

25:16

know what is really going on every

25:18

day. When we return, another abortion case

25:20

ends up at the Supreme Court and

25:23

it could determine abortion access in

25:25

emergency rooms across this country. And

25:28

Idaho physician breaks down the high stakes

25:30

in her state when the 11th hour

25:32

continues. Protesters

25:42

gathered outside the Supreme Court

25:44

today as the justices debated

25:46

the controversial Idaho abortion ban.

25:48

Idaho is now contesting a

25:50

lawsuit brought by the Biden

25:52

administration, which says the ban

25:55

restricts abortion care in emergency

25:57

situations, but that argument did

25:59

not appear. to win over some

26:01

conservative justices. My colleague Laura Jarrett has

26:03

the details. Baby

26:06

losses is so common. It

26:09

happens to so many families and we're just one of

26:11

them. When Jennifer

26:13

Adkins learned she was pregnant and

26:15

due on Halloween, she and her

26:17

husband placefully nicknamed the baby spooky.

26:20

But when she went to a routine doctor's appointment

26:22

at 12 weeks, her doctors

26:25

said the baby likely had Turner

26:27

syndrome, a rare chromosomal condition often

26:29

fatal and likely to put Jennifer's

26:32

own health in jeopardy. They said

26:35

we're surprised that you're still pregnant given

26:37

the severity of what we're seeing on the ultrasound.

26:40

Most people would have miscarried by now. I

26:42

was just in total, total

26:44

shock. When she asked about

26:47

her options, they said well because we're

26:49

in Idaho there really

26:51

aren't any for you because your baby

26:53

has a heartbeat. We can't terminate the

26:55

pregnancy. The

26:58

scope of Idaho's near total abortion ban

27:00

in front of the U.S. Supreme Court

27:02

today. The ban went into effect after

27:04

the court overturned Roe v. Wade. The

27:07

state now allows abortions only when a

27:09

mother's life is at risk, not

27:11

her health. Doctors say that

27:14

puts them in a dangerous bind. It

27:16

makes no sense that we're just going to wait

27:18

until you're on death story. Are you worried someone's

27:21

going to die? That's what I worry

27:23

about the most. That's what keeps

27:25

me up at night. In court

27:27

today, the Biden administration argued

27:29

Idaho's law directly conflicts with

27:31

a federal law that requires

27:33

hospitals to provide patients in

27:35

an emergency whatever treatment necessary

27:37

to stabilize them. The liberal

27:39

justices appearing concerned. Her life

27:42

is not in peril but she's going

27:44

to lose her reproductive organs and yet

27:46

Idaho says sorry

27:48

no abortion here and

27:50

the result is that these patients

27:53

are now public optered out

27:55

of state. But Idaho's Republican Attorney General

27:57

says the federal government shouldn't get to

28:00

Dictate state laws on abortion.

28:02

So you are suffering cause a to make it

28:04

clear that when they decided on the off as

28:06

a man for that is hop to the states

28:08

to the size of whether they can have life

28:10

affirming or legislation or not. Data.

28:14

Caitlin the South and joins us Aussies, a

28:16

family physician in Idaho and Co President of

28:18

the I How Coalition for safe health care.

28:21

Thank you so much for being here. I

28:23

know you are at the courthouse today. What

28:25

did you make of these arguments? Yes,

28:28

Thing savvy Me: I here tonight.

28:30

Stephanie. Why think? First of all,

28:32

it's really important to point out

28:34

just how shocking it is that

28:36

we're at this moment in time

28:38

where. We're hearing and court.

28:41

Said we have to defend the

28:43

care of our pace and so

28:45

standard of care for patients on

28:47

they're facing pregnancy complications are that

28:50

threaten their health that potentially life

28:52

threatening. So that was certainly my

28:54

first impression today. As you know,

28:56

taking that all into accounts and

28:59

and where this has really taken

29:01

us. Over the past two years.

29:04

How has this impacted your patience? What

29:06

are you hearing from other doctors are? I'm

29:08

imagining. There is no way you ever

29:10

thought you would be in this position

29:12

when you become a doctor. Guess.

29:15

None of us trained for that, none

29:17

of us prepared for that moment. I'm

29:20

we spent years and years training to

29:22

be says the Sands and to follow

29:24

the standard of care and to provide

29:26

a safe as fast care that we

29:28

can for patients are this moment is

29:30

definitely tremendous and the fact that we're

29:32

having to again. as I said this

29:35

and the care though we know is

29:37

Css that we know we have to

29:39

offer often in a time sensitive manner

29:41

to our patients arm and this truly

29:43

is breaking down as safe as. Some

29:45

of health care in Idaho that we

29:48

once had and I'm lucky that I've

29:50

been able to practice in Idaho for

29:52

nearly two decades and I I never

29:54

thought that I would see this moment

29:57

and the impact of this is hard

29:59

on. The Colonel Health Care and. Actually,

30:02

really, health in general in Idaho

30:04

the problem isn't just in Idaho.

30:06

The Associated Press is reporting that

30:09

since we're all was overturned, complacent

30:11

pregnant women have been turned away

30:13

from. Emergency rooms have spiked across

30:16

the nation. How dangerous is this

30:18

right? In our minds, the Emergency

30:20

room is the one place you

30:23

go. State cares for you no

30:25

matter what. At least. Within.

30:27

Led to believe that. Absolutely

30:30

Is is not cease to be

30:32

pregnant and Idaho or states like

30:35

ours were there are near total

30:37

ban said prevent us from intervening.

30:39

Like I said in those time

30:41

sensitive emergencies it's the most critical

30:44

were really facing an a time

30:46

that the unprecedented I'm in maternal

30:48

health and going into this were

30:51

really facing provider shortages are we've

30:53

been facing declining maternal health over

30:55

all and her maternal mortality particularly

30:57

in rural states like mine are

31:00

pieces are already traveling longer and

31:02

longer distances to get to care

31:04

and we add this on and

31:07

the impact on to the safety

31:09

of our patients. ah is really

31:11

of the I'm Us concern at

31:13

this point. For. People who are

31:16

do let the states decide. Is

31:18

this what? The People of Idaho? One. Well.

31:22

I think in we heard today

31:24

we we need this protection. We

31:26

have to have this protection and

31:28

Paula is why it's all of

31:30

us are doctors, grew up under,

31:33

we trained under and we understand

31:35

and we've always understood that is

31:37

mandated that every patient would come

31:39

to the yarn, receive emergency care

31:41

that they need and that they

31:43

deserve in that moment and then

31:46

to hear that questioned whether or

31:48

pregnant patients should be included in

31:50

that are that are. state has

31:52

really excluded the care that they needed

31:54

in the most critical moments in their

31:57

house am and and potentially and our

31:59

lives That's

32:01

the difficult moment that we find

32:03

ourselves in now. Dr.

32:06

Gustafson, thank you so much for being here tonight.

32:08

I appreciate it. Thank you so much

32:10

for having me. When we return, the

32:12

war on junk fees gets kicked up

32:14

a notch. How President Biden

32:17

is making airline travel a lot

32:19

less annoying. We could use it.

32:21

Pretty annoying right now. Lee Levin

32:23

Bower continues. My

32:32

administration is also taking on junk fees. Those

32:36

hidden surcharges too many companies use to make

32:38

you pay more. For example,

32:41

we're making airlines show you the

32:43

full ticket price upfront. Refund

32:45

your money if your flight is canceled

32:48

or delayed. I'm

32:51

here for that. The president has

32:53

officially made good on that commitment.

32:55

Today his administration unveiled two new

32:57

rules for airlines requiring automatic

33:00

cash refunds and prohibiting surprise fees.

33:02

It is the latest move in

33:04

Biden's push to protect American consumers.

33:06

Back with us tonight in person

33:08

to discuss former democratic Congressman Max

33:10

Rose of New York and Reed

33:12

Galen if you're co-founder of the

33:14

Lincoln Project. He also has worked

33:16

on a number of GOP campaigns

33:18

including John McCain, Arnold Schwarzenegger and

33:21

George W. Bush. Max, today

33:23

we've got these new airline rules. We're

33:25

talking about it here tonight. But

33:27

by the time these benefits kick in, are

33:30

people going to even realize that

33:33

it was President Biden that made that happen? Sure,

33:36

sure. And I think it's the

33:38

responsibility of the Biden team to

33:40

remind them and remind them over

33:42

again. What's been fascinating with this

33:44

announcement and now the implementation is

33:47

the Republican response. Which is,

33:49

oh, he's playing politics. He's

33:52

playing politics because he and his

33:55

administration did something that

33:57

helps People, helps their pocketbooks.

34:00

Helped their your average person in a

34:02

frustrating more but this is. Ridiculous. She's

34:04

playing politics. What the hell do

34:06

you think he's supposed to be

34:08

doing? What the hell is your

34:10

impression of Republicans? Susan? Either that

34:12

or Weasel Essences boost to

34:15

say the ultimate Doors but

34:17

they say it. Is in

34:19

reality though. Of this is

34:21

why all too often into his modern

34:23

the a political discourse that she hit

34:26

listen to the opposition too much because

34:28

no matter what she do. They.

34:30

Will stand up and criticize it. Either.

34:33

Yeah the abyss race in is being

34:36

elitist and ignoring that and said the

34:38

pocketbook concerns of people or when. They're

34:40

doing that the devil hander and it just

34:42

pandering to play and politics. This good

34:45

policy is good politics and miss

34:47

is both and we should celebrate

34:49

that. To. Think it'll in fact President

34:51

Biden in November. I don't know

34:54

about that but the good news is to

34:56

max is point you know you have similar

34:58

to P. Buddha Judge who's Secretary Transportation. This

35:00

rule came out of transportation apartments so wouldn't

35:02

surprise me if you see Secretary Pete out

35:04

on the road a lot he has been

35:06

already or and so look to. I think

35:08

that it will help in November. Sure. I

35:10

think it's all additives. I think it's as Mack said,

35:12

this is good for people I meet and. Sounds and

35:15

while some sense either sitting in Trump

35:17

Tower today having no campaign events or

35:19

sitting in court. No criminal record so yes

35:21

is better to be doing something for the

35:23

people then yes Going through this Yannick who.

35:25

Can be on the trail or be

35:28

on trial. Said yesterday was a primary

35:30

day in Pennsylvania have closed primary. No

35:32

surprise. President Biden, one Donald Trump, one.

35:35

That. I know peloton side. Nikki.

35:37

Haley it receive more than

35:40

a hundred and sixty five

35:42

thousand knows. Max. Of

35:44

I never the say some things that is

35:46

a good sign for him. What do you

35:48

think? Absolutely correct. That mean what?

35:50

what we saw through out the

35:52

Republican Primary Because it was quite

35:54

obvious that Donald Trump was the

35:56

presumptive nominee for quite. Some time

35:59

and nonetheless, Over

36:01

and over again, roughly forty percent

36:03

of the electorate's resoundingly said they

36:05

are anti Trump. and in exit

36:07

polls said that they will not

36:10

be voting for Donald Trump in

36:12

the general election. And now we

36:14

have this all to meet. Example

36:16

of that says even. After she

36:18

dropped out. There. Willing to

36:20

go to the polls and still

36:22

vote for not because I probably

36:24

did say it's any resound in

36:26

supports for Nikki Haley herself but

36:28

because it is an opportunity for

36:31

them to express opposition to Donald

36:33

Trump and that server not just

36:35

with in persuadable, not just within

36:37

the democratic base. But within

36:39

republican primary. Voters: These are

36:41

traditional republican voters who are

36:43

so anti Trump. that's a

36:45

very good sides and. The a

36:47

matters when you think. Ah, I think

36:49

this is what matters most is not

36:52

only that she got these votes but

36:54

where she got most of them which

36:56

were those collar counties around Philadelphia that

36:58

are consistently purple in nature right there.

37:00

Always a battleground in this very very

37:02

important states. She was basically break and

37:04

even with Nikki Haley who has been

37:06

deal away for six weeks for her

37:08

right then what we with we look

37:10

back all the way to Iowa. Right

37:12

in one of the I will voters

37:14

say about Nikki Haley which is is

37:16

Nikki Haley wasn't gonna be there. Nominee.

37:19

They were gonna vote for Joe Biden and

37:21

so I think the Trump has a massive

37:23

issue. These voters are very likely to do

37:26

one of two things: stay home which Trump's

37:28

and afford or vote for by which Trump

37:30

can afford. And I think as you noted,

37:32

just a minute go, she's sitting in a

37:35

court room, She is not campaigning, She doesn't

37:37

have the money to be running ads, And

37:39

so I think that if Pennsylvania starts to

37:42

stretch what's Trump than a do. And not

37:44

only this, Who. Who.

37:46

is he going to appeal to to get

37:48

with haley's voters back he said he didn't

37:50

want rhinos like me she doesn't want haley's

37:52

voters like who exactly is going to vote

37:54

for donald trump in numbers that get him

37:57

back to the presidency the only thing he

37:59

has gone for is his name is Donald

38:01

Trump. That's it. You know who is gonna

38:03

vote for him? Bill Barr. And Donald Trump just

38:05

tooled on him tonight. I wanna share something. It's

38:07

very rare that I read one

38:10

of Donald Trump's social media posts, but

38:12

tonight I feel inclined, where he wrote,

38:14

wow, former AG Bill Barr, who led

38:16

a lot of great people down by

38:19

not investigating voter fraud in our country,

38:21

has just endorsed me for president, despite

38:23

the fact that I called him weak,

38:26

slow-moving, lethargic, gutless, and lazy. Trump's

38:29

actually right here, okay? He has

38:32

said and done all those terrible things

38:34

to Bill Barr. Bill Barr knows the

38:36

danger that Donald Trump is to this

38:38

country, yet he endorsed him. Can

38:40

you explain to me why? It's like the

38:43

revenge of Chris Anunu. I really can't understand

38:45

it. Is he

38:47

trying to make a buck?

38:50

Is he so insecure that

38:52

he needs continued relevance? What

38:55

Bill Barr came face-to-face with, at

38:58

the conclusion of the Trump presidency,

39:01

was Trump's authoritarian fascist nature

39:03

and his absolute disregard

39:05

for our democratic norms,

39:07

values, and system, and

39:10

nonetheless, still turns

39:12

around and supports him. But

39:15

forget about Bill Barr. What matters

39:17

is all the other Bill Bars

39:19

out there, in the Republican Party

39:21

right now, who, despite Chris Anunu,

39:23

is a fantastic example that I'd

39:25

like to raise their hand during

39:27

the primary and express their fervent

39:29

opposition to Donald Trump, talked about

39:31

how dangerous he is, but now

39:33

they see themselves slowly walking towards

39:35

him. But what matters

39:37

the most, though, not

39:39

Bill Barr, not Chris Anunu,

39:42

still has 155,000 Nikki Haley

39:45

voters in Pennsylvania, and it

39:47

is that hardcore, persuadable middle

39:50

who really wants nothing to do

39:52

with the extremist MAGA base, and

39:55

that's what's gonna matter in this

39:57

election. I

39:59

think Bill Barr... and Chris Sinuña and a

40:01

lot of these people are hoping they stay

40:03

out of the gulag if Trump comes back.

40:06

You know what? That's not how it works

40:08

in these kinds of movements. Bill Barr will

40:10

have terrible things happen to him. It's Donald

40:13

Trump. Trump's coming for all of us. Let's

40:15

be clear about that. These people do not

40:17

forget and Barr has done the one thing

40:19

even after he's now engaging in the Tim

40:22

Scott-like ritual humiliation, which is he betrayed Trump.

40:24

And in these kinds of movements betrayal is

40:26

the ultimate sin. He'll never forgive Barr. That's

40:29

so embarrassing that Trump. Oh God. I mean

40:31

it's... It's really... Bill Barr should never say

40:34

anything publicly. No. But you know what? He

40:36

did give a major speech where he basically

40:38

said that he didn't think that democracy was

40:40

a great form of government. So really maybe

40:42

we shouldn't be surprised. My

40:46

goodness. These gentlemen delivering you

40:48

a nightmare this evening. Read.

40:51

Thank you both. When we return, why read

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about history in a book? You

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ready to smile for tonight's last thing

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before we go. A front row seat

42:20

to history in the making. The New

42:22

York criminal trial of Donald Trump is

42:25

resuming tomorrow with a third day

42:27

of testimony from former National Enquirer

42:29

publisher David Pecker. And you've

42:31

heard about what to expect from expert

42:33

lawyers and journalists on this very network.

42:35

But they are not the only ones

42:37

focused on this case. Yesterday,

42:39

three New York City teenagers spent

42:42

a day off from school, guess

42:44

where, in that Manhattan courtroom.

42:46

Our dear friend Chris Jansing was able

42:48

to speak with two of them about

42:50

what they saw. This

42:53

is a historic trial. I figured I'd

42:55

never have another chance to do something

42:58

like this. So I got around six

43:01

to try and get here on time. I really

43:03

want to be a lawyer. So this

43:05

was a really good experience for me. I took a

43:08

lot of notes about what was going on and different

43:10

people who were doing what. And it

43:12

was very interesting for me. I love

43:14

the David Pecker's testimony. I

43:17

felt there were some parts of what he's saying, which

43:19

were credible, but he was definitely more

43:22

inclined to help the former president. Yeah.

43:24

Did you send it pro-Trump throughout his

43:26

entire thing? What was your impression of

43:29

the former president? He seemed very much

43:31

more contained than he

43:33

normally is. Definitely

43:37

I can see him nodding off at times. Yeah,

43:42

at the beginning when everyone

43:45

was first setting up, he was squaring a

43:47

lot. And then he went through periods where

43:49

he was unnaturally still, which I found very

43:51

interesting. Unnaturally still.

43:54

Those two are the only

43:56

thing in this criminal trial

43:59

That truly breaks. A smile to

44:01

my face. Some very good insight from

44:03

fruits or lawyers. Hope Harrington and own

44:05

baron bound to take us off the

44:07

air this evening, and I'm not very.

44:10

Important else I wish you a very

44:12

nice from all of our colleagues because

44:14

the networks with Nbc news and sustain

44:17

at latest me a few things. To

44:31

teaching kids and teens about money. Dismissed

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a dream like That and Sash podcast.