0:00

Tonight, Donald Trump's possible

0:02

move to take his Georgia case to federal

0:04

court and what we can expect from the special

0:07

grand jury's report tomorrow. Plus,

0:09

the guilty verdict for Trump's former trade

0:11

advisor, Peter Navarro and Ron

0:13

DeSantis hinting at pardons for

0:15

the January 6th defendants as

0:18

presidential libraries issue a rare

0:20

joint warning about our democracy. Then,

0:23

the world's second largest economy in a slowdown.

0:26

What China stalling out could mean for the U.S.

0:28

as the 11th hour gets underway on

0:30

this Thursday night. Good

0:38

evening. Once again, I'm Stephanie Ruhle live

0:40

at MSNBC headquarters here at 30 Rock.

0:43

Today, former President Trump has signaled

0:46

what could be his next move in the Georgia election

0:49

case. This afternoon, he told the judge

0:51

he may seek removal of his prosecution

0:54

to federal court. Remember, Trump's former

0:56

chief of staff and Georgia co-defendant Mark

0:58

Meadows is already trying to do that. He's

1:01

still waiting for a ruling on that request. As

1:03

Trump and Meadows try to work out their legal

1:05

strategies, District Attorney Fannie

1:08

Willis is fighting to protect her investigation

1:11

from House Republicans. Today, she responded

1:13

to Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan,

1:16

who began investigating her office

1:18

after Trump was indicted. In a scathing

1:21

nine-page letter, Willis told Jordan

1:23

he was, quote, trying to obstruct a

1:25

criminal proceeding and advance

1:28

outrageous partisan misrepresentations.

1:31

She also said that being a political candidate

1:34

did not make Trump immune from prosecution,

1:36

similar to what Kamala Harris said yesterday. Meanwhile,

1:39

NBC reports that the grand jury

1:42

in Jack Smith's federal election case was

1:44

back at work today in a D.C. courthouse. And

1:46

as that was happening, Donald Trump's

1:48

former trade advisor, Peter Navarro,

1:51

was convicted of contempt of Congress

1:53

for not complying with a subpoena from the January

1:56

6th committee. He said this outside

1:58

the courthouse today.

2:00

People like me, senior White

2:02

House advisors, alter

2:04

egos of the president, cannot be compelled,

2:07

cannot be compelled to testify before Congress.

2:10

I said from the beginning, this is going to the Supreme

2:12

Court, I said from the beginning, I am willing

2:15

to go to prison to settle

2:17

this issue. I'm

2:20

willing to do that. The

2:23

verdict came out after about

2:25

just four hours of deliberation and

2:28

a trial that lasted only two days. Navarro

2:30

is said to be sentenced in January. He

2:32

faces potentially up to two years in prison.

2:35

He said he was ready. Well, it may happen. With

2:38

that, let's get smarter with help of our lead-off panel tonight.

2:40

John Allen is here, senior national politics

2:42

reporter for NBC News. Peter Baker,

2:45

chief White House correspondent for The New York Times and

2:47

former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance, who spent 25

2:50

years as a federal prosecutor. Joyce,

2:52

I want to

2:52

start with you. Watching

2:54

Peter Navarro get found guilty

2:57

tonight.

2:57

What does this do to the psyche

3:00

of Donald Trump's co-defendants in Georgia,

3:03

in Florida? Are they watching this and

3:05

thinking, holy cow, this could

3:07

be me next? And they're facing more serious

3:09

charges than Navarro. Right.

3:12

So Navarro's situation

3:14

is a little bit different. This is the guy

3:16

who confessed to Ari Melber

3:19

on national television to fomenting

3:21

a coup, his notorious Green

3:24

Bay sweep, and then declined

3:26

to respond to a congressional subpoena.

3:29

This was always going to be a conviction.

3:31

The only surprise here is that it took

3:33

the jury four hours to get to that point.

3:36

I suspect that there may have been a lengthy lunch

3:38

involved before they took their vote because

3:41

this really was the cleanest

3:42

of all possible cases. But

3:44

you know, Steph, I think it does have

3:47

a subtle impact on some

3:49

of Trump's co-defendants and

3:51

particularly in the Mar-a-Lago

3:53

case. People like Walt Nauta,

3:56

who really has been quite literally

3:58

the body man for the

3:59

president and he will now have to

4:02

make a decision. Is he like Navarro

4:04

willing to go to prison for Trump

4:07

or does he need to correct course now

4:09

while he still has time? Well, let's

4:11

talk about Donald Trump because now Joyce,

4:14

he's sort of hinting that he might

4:16

ask for his case in Georgia to be moved

4:18

to federal court.

4:20

What's he really doing here? Seeing if Mark Meadows

4:22

gets it and if he does, he'll try to jump on board.

4:26

He's going to milk the criminal

4:29

process for every last second of

4:31

delay that he can get. So under Georgia

4:33

rules, he doesn't have to file a

4:35

notice of removal until 30 days

4:38

after the date of his arraignment. You'll

4:40

recall he waived arraignment, but there

4:42

will be a docket entry on the court and 30

4:44

days after that is when he has to. And

4:47

when I suspect he will file his motion

4:49

for removal, there's little downside

4:52

for him in doing that because it's a delay

4:54

game. The real issue here

4:56

will

4:56

be how long will it take the

4:59

11th circuit to rule on these cases

5:01

after the district judge does, and

5:03

then will there be a Supreme Court process?

5:05

I mean, this is really far more about

5:08

delay than a realistic prospect

5:10

that a majority of these defendants will

5:12

have their cases tried in federal

5:14

court instead of state court. Peter,

5:17

you know Trump well. Do you agree with Joyce?

5:20

Is this just a Donald Trump delay game? It's

5:22

what he's great at and it's worked for him in the past.

5:25

Yeah, that's his history, of course, not

5:28

just his president, but way back to his business career. Stressed things

5:31

out, delayed things as much as you can, throw as many different

5:34

things at the wall, see if anything sticks. He doesn't

5:36

mind losing in court because he does lose in

5:38

court quite a lot. They throw out all sorts of motions

5:40

that go nowhere. He files all sorts of lawsuits that

5:42

get tossed out regularly. It's all just part

5:44

of a broader approach

5:47

toward the law, which is to delay any final

5:49

judgment and also to make points on a political

5:51

level. Every motion

5:53

he files in court has a political

5:55

angle to it too, and that angle will be in this case

5:58

that Fannie Willis is unfair, and if he doesn't,

5:59

He's gonna go to court to show that she's

6:02

unfair and she can't be trusted

6:04

in a state court. We need to have the supervision of a federal

6:06

court in order to oversee her. So everything

6:09

is in keeping with the Trump

6:12

pattern that we've established over years.

6:14

Okay, John, this is what

6:16

I need to know. This evening, Donald

6:18

Trump is holding a fundraiser at his

6:21

club in New Jersey for Rudy Giuliani,

6:24

his co-defendant. This dinner is 100 Gs

6:26

a plate. When

6:28

I read this, I wanted to drive out to the NJ

6:31

just to see who is going, who

6:33

is paying for that? So like, I wanna

6:35

know what these bedminster dinners are like.

6:38

It can't be a bunch of Jersey people writing

6:40

checks like that.

6:42

Yeah, I don't think Rudy's gonna be able to hold

6:44

a bank sale to get his legal

6:46

defense paid for. So he's been

6:48

begging Donald Trump for money. Trump's doing the

6:50

fundraiser. We'll have to see

6:53

if we're able to find out all of the people that

6:55

gave money to this, but at $100,000 a plate, they

6:58

say they're gonna raise a million dollars. That's 10

7:00

people. So it

7:02

doesn't sound like it's gonna be a hugely attended

7:05

fundraiser or a widely attended fundraiser, but

7:07

Rudy Giuliani is in deep financial

7:10

trouble in addition to legal trouble. And

7:13

a million dollars isn't gonna be enough.

7:15

How about Peter Navarro? I've watched him over

7:17

the last few days out there trying to raise

7:19

cash for himself, complaining about

7:22

his legal bills. Is anybody writing

7:24

a check for him?

7:26

Yeah,

7:26

I'm not sure that they are, Steph. Obviously

7:29

there's some ability to raise money from

7:32

Trump loyalists for all these folks who are under

7:35

the gun, so to speak. But in

7:37

the case of Peter Navarro, he's not as famous as some

7:39

of these other folks are. He hasn't

7:42

run for office. He doesn't have a national fundraising list.

7:44

He doesn't have big donors that have been behind him before. He

7:47

is in a position now where he's chosen

7:50

to fight against Congress in

7:53

one of these big clashes between the institutions.

7:55

And he lost in Congress and

7:58

now lost at the... at the

8:00

court level, and we'll have to see what that sentence is. He

8:02

says he's going to fight it to the Supreme Court. But

8:05

for the time being, he is sits convicted.

8:08

So Peter, assuming Donald Trump

8:10

is there, it's potentially Donald

8:13

Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and 10 rich

8:15

people who are giving him 100 Gs apiece. Trump

8:18

and Giuliani have known one another, have been allies

8:21

in the New York scene

8:22

for years, long before Trump was in the White

8:24

House. What's their relationship like right now?

8:27

Well, it's a great

8:29

question, because in fact, they have been close for years,

8:31

going back to when Giuliani was mayor

8:33

and Trump was a real estate developer. And

8:36

Giuliani spoke at Donald

8:38

Trump's father's funeral. They go back a long

8:41

way. But it's been a stressful, tense time,

8:43

because Giuliani, who didn't really

8:45

get paid by Trump through all his years

8:47

of representing him, feeling

8:50

anxious about his financial issues,

8:52

resentful, it sounds like, from people close to him that

8:55

he hasn't been taken care of until now. This

8:57

fundraiser is coming after reporting that

9:00

Giuliani was really quite desperate for

9:02

help. His own son went to Trump and

9:04

said, look, you need to help the guy. If

9:07

he goes to prison, it's because

9:09

he worked for Donald Trump, it's because he was doing what

9:11

Trump wanted him to do. And as it is, his livelihood

9:13

has been basically diminished. He can't

9:16

practice law in New York

9:18

or Washington, where he's been penalized

9:20

by local bar associations. And he's

9:23

in tough straits financially. So this is Donald Trump

9:25

trying to keep him back in the fold, make

9:28

sure that he is in fact

9:28

taken care of. That's of

9:31

course to Trump's interest at a point when Giuliani

9:33

is a co-conspirator, according

9:35

to the prosecutors who could presumably

9:38

tell authorities things that might not be beneficial

9:40

to President Trump.

9:42

Joyce, Jack Smith's DC grand jury

9:44

met again today. What does that tell

9:46

you? Could we actually see more people get charged?

9:50

Well, we could, and I think it's important

9:52

to acknowledge that what we're all doing with this

9:55

grand jury is reading tea leaves, because

9:57

this grand jury is meeting in secret.

9:59

It's... conducting its considerations

10:01

and its investigation in secret. And

10:04

so all that we can do is speculate,

10:06

but there has been some reporting that Jack

10:09

Smith is very interested in

10:11

pursuing the allegations of fraud

10:13

that first surfaced during the January 6th

10:15

committee hearings involving fundraising

10:19

based on fake allegations of fraud

10:21

after the 2020 election and

10:23

the contention that money was

10:25

being raised to continue to challenge

10:28

that fraud and the outcome of the election,

10:31

when in fact it was going for other purposes,

10:33

including paying Donald Trump's legal fees. You

10:36

know, we don't know, I think it's important to

10:38

acknowledge whether Trump had any personal

10:40

involvement in that, but it does

10:42

seem clear that prosecutors are looking

10:44

at Sidney Powell and perhaps others.

10:47

And one important thing, if there

10:49

is an indictment in a case like

10:51

this, it may put additional

10:53

pressure on people like Sidney Powell

10:55

if she ends up getting charged to

10:58

cooperate with prosecutors on the whole

11:00

ball of wax. Joyce, what was your

11:02

take on this letter, this response

11:04

Fawney Willis had to Jim Jordan

11:07

today?

11:07

I mean, it was pretty

11:10

scathing.

11:12

Well, you may have to be a Southern woman,

11:14

a Southern prosecutor to fully appreciate

11:16

how understated this letter is.

11:20

Even how really grievous the

11:22

Congressman's overstepping of

11:24

his bounds are here. He is

11:26

a legislative branch official.

11:29

He is a member of Congress. Fawney

11:31

Willis is a prosecutor in Fulton

11:34

County, Georgia. She's vested by the

11:36

state of Georgia with discretion

11:38

over what cases she indicts and

11:40

how she conducts her business.

11:42

And that is none of Jim

11:44

Jordan's bailiwick. So I think

11:46

she could have ignored him. I think she could

11:48

have sent him a far more scathing letter.

11:51

And instead, she went to pains in these

11:53

nine pages to explain to him

11:55

the

11:56

many flaws in his reasoning. I

11:58

thought it was a well-known reason.

11:59

done letter, appointed letter, and

12:02

it was important that she didn't just let him

12:04

get away with it. She made it clear that

12:06

he won't be running over the rights

12:08

of voters in Fulton County, Georgia.

12:11

Well, it appears he's going to try, John.

12:13

How much damage? How

12:15

much could Jim Jordan actually do

12:18

to stop her investigation?

12:20

Very little, Stephanie. I mean, there's obviously

12:23

the public pressure campaign that he's trying, and

12:25

she basically wrote back to him and said something between

12:27

fool around and find out and bless

12:29

your heart, as Joyce pointed out.

12:32

Little understated times, a little overstated others.

12:34

But really, there's not much Jim Jordan

12:37

can do. There could be efforts

12:39

to tinker around with federal funding

12:41

for Georgia. I don't think that'll go very far. The Georgia

12:44

congressional delegation, at least in the House, is

12:47

heavily tilted toward Republicans. I mean, there really

12:49

isn't much that he can do. And by the way, that's the way our

12:51

system is built. Our system is

12:53

built so that Congress doesn't go into the

12:55

states and interfere

12:57

with individual court cases. But

13:01

Peter, Jim Jordan knows that. Jim

13:03

Jordan knows at the end of the day, he

13:05

doesn't actually have the power to stop

13:07

her. But you know who doesn't know? Followers

13:10

of right wing media, maybe some of his constituents.

13:13

So even though he can't get the

13:15

results he wants,

13:17

won't he? Because he's muddying the waters

13:19

and he gives people who follow him

13:21

the ability to say, yep, what she's doing

13:24

is absolutely illegal. It's overstepping.

13:26

This is political. He's still achieving his goal.

13:30

Yeah, that's right. He's coming to Donald Trump's defense

13:32

politically as best he can. He's trying to suggest

13:34

that there's something wrong here when

13:37

he doesn't have a role particularly to play. It doesn't

13:39

matter that he won't get Congress to actually pass

13:42

any legislation that would be meaningful in this case.

13:44

It doesn't really matter if he can't even hold a hearing,

13:46

although I suppose it's possible he could. Because

13:49

what he's trying to do is throw up enough chafe to

13:52

muddy the waters, as you say, and to appeal to his

13:54

friend and ally, former President

13:57

Trump. Remember, Jim Jordan for years now

13:59

has been Trump's probably leading

14:01

defender on the hill when

14:04

it comes to any of his issues, whether it be impeachment,

14:06

whether it comes to prosecutions in New

14:08

York, he did the same thing with Alvin Bragg, whether it's the

14:10

Hush Money case. It's

14:12

his job as he sees it to play

14:14

blocking back in effect for the former president.

14:17

He also has a lot of time to discuss

14:19

Hunter Biden. And I want to ask you about him,

14:21

Peter, because he's expected to be indicted

14:24

before the end of the month. You have covered this story

14:26

extensively. What do we need to know?

14:29

Yeah, he's going to be indicted, looks like, on gun

14:31

charges. Remember, of course, that plea deal fell apart

14:34

a few weeks back in which Hunter Biden would

14:36

have plead guilty to two misdemeanor tax

14:38

counts and would have agreed to a diversion

14:41

program to get rid of a gun charge. That

14:44

fell apart, and now the prosecutor, David

14:47

Weiss, is going forward with bringing

14:49

it to trial. So we don't know whether or not this will actually

14:52

still go to trial. It's possible this is a, you

14:54

know, Georgetown is better at whether it's a maneuver

14:56

to force them back to the table in terms

14:58

of plea negotiations.

14:59

But basically, this

15:01

is bad news, obviously, for Hunter Biden. It's

15:03

bad news for the White House. It keeps the story going.

15:06

It highlights, you know, an

15:08

issue that allows the Trump side to say, well, see,

15:11

they're the real guys who are doing bad things and

15:14

trying to shift attention away from Trump and

15:16

his four indictments. And, you know,

15:18

the sooner this is resolved for the White House,

15:20

obviously, they would prefer that to go away.

15:23

But Joyce, it would be personally

15:26

painful for the White House if this

15:28

went to trial to have to go through this day

15:30

in and day out. But at the same time,

15:33

could it be beneficial to the White House to

15:36

show that the president,

15:37

if it's true, has absolutely nothing to do with this?

15:42

So I'm just a prosecutor, Steph,

15:44

and I'm used to thinking of cases like

15:46

this in terms of whether or not a defendant

15:49

should be held accountable for misconduct.

15:52

I'm a firm believer that anyone, whether

15:54

they're the son of a president or not, if

15:57

they've committed crimes that are

15:59

within DOJ,

15:59

priorities and that other people

16:02

would be prosecuted for, then it's

16:04

correct to charge them and to proceed

16:06

against them. And therein lies

16:08

the political rub in this case, because

16:11

Hunter Biden, if DOJ

16:13

now comes back through special counsel

16:16

David Weiss and charges him

16:18

with being a drug user in possession of

16:20

a firearm, for starters, that's

16:22

the kind of charge that's almost never

16:24

used by prosecutors, except

16:27

when you have a case with someone who's a serious

16:29

danger to the community, which Hunter

16:31

Biden certainly doesn't appear to be. Similarly,

16:34

with these tax charges, they're

16:37

the kind of situation that's typically resolved

16:39

administratively. Hunter Biden repaid

16:42

what he owed, and in the normal

16:44

case, that would end things. So

16:46

it's possible that there's a political

16:48

angle here and that it will be available

16:51

for the White House to insinuate, if not

16:53

to argue, that there's something

16:55

that's happening here simply because

16:58

Hunter Biden's last name is Biden. But

17:00

it's very important that the White House not

17:03

get involved in prosecutions. And

17:05

so I suspect that we will see cooler

17:07

heads prevail. Joe Biden loves his son.

17:10

He's the head of the executive branch. DOJ

17:13

is part of that executive branch. He

17:15

needs to not comment on anything that's going

17:17

on and let the career prosecutors

17:19

at DOJ do their jobs. Well,

17:22

thank you for doing yours tonight. Joyce Vance,

17:24

Peter Baker, John Allen, Peter, I know

17:26

you were joining us from India, so it is tomorrow

17:29

where you are. We're

17:29

gonna let you get to work. And

17:32

as for me, I'm always glad to be

17:34

with all of you who are watching, especially

17:37

tonight, because I want you to know I almost

17:39

missed the show. Because I was at the US Open

17:42

with my son when the women's semifinal

17:44

match was delayed for

17:47

like 45 minutes

17:48

because of some climate protesters. And at

17:50

least one of them who glued

17:52

his bare feet to the cement floor. I

17:55

mean, for all of us going, these are just hecklers.

17:57

Can you kick the guy out is when we saw.

17:59

He glued, he super glued his

18:02

bare feet. As I said, the delay lasted like 40,

18:04

45 minutes. The police

18:06

had to come in and sort this whole thing out.

18:09

For me, I was glad I got to be at the match.

18:12

I was glad to see Coco win, and

18:14

I am really glad that I can be here with

18:16

you tonight.

18:17

We'll be back with more right after this. Hey

18:21

everyone, I'm Tom Yamas from Top Story on NBC

18:24

News Now. Every night, Top Story is

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18:51

There comes a point when a singular

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in our cultural landscape. The Turning

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streaming on Peacock.

19:27

As always, I need this one explained,

19:29

several Republican presidential candidates have

19:31

now gone on record saying

19:33

they would pardon former President Donald

19:36

Trump. But Ron DeSantis has taken

19:38

it to a whole other level today.

19:41

Watch this.

19:43

January 6th, some of the people that

19:45

are going away now, they've 15, 18 in 22 years for Terry-O.

19:51

As a president, would President Ron DeSantis

19:53

commute or pardon those guys?

19:57

We will look at all those cases. I mean, so there's some

19:59

examples of pea- that should not have been prosecuted.

20:02

They just walked into the Capitol. If they

20:04

were BLM, they would not have been prosecuted.

20:06

Then there's other examples of people that

20:08

probably did commit misconduct. They may

20:11

have been violent. But to say it's an act

20:13

of terrorism when it was basically

20:15

a protest that devolved into

20:17

a riot to do excessive

20:20

sentences, you can look at, okay, maybe

20:22

they were guilty, but 22 years, if

20:25

other people that did other things got six

20:27

months. So I think we need a single standard

20:29

of justice. And so we'll use pardons and

20:31

commutations as appropriate

20:33

to ensure that everyone's treated equally.

20:36

I wish Ron DeSantis were here. Those people

20:38

that he said just walked into the Capitol.

20:41

When did they do it? After the windows were

20:43

smashed in, so those windows were open, or

20:46

after they broke the door barriers down and rammed

20:48

their way through the cops? Back with me tonight

20:50

to discuss Basil Smickel, Democratic strategist

20:53

and former executive director of the New

20:55

York State Democratic Party. And Stuart Stevens

20:57

is here, a veteran of the Mitt Romney and George

21:00

W. Bush presidential campaigns. He is

21:02

now with the Lincoln Project and his new book,

21:04

The Conspiracy to End America, Five

21:06

Ways My Old Party is Driving

21:09

Our Democracy to Autocracy is

21:11

coming out this fall. Stuart, help me with

21:13

this one.

21:15

Why would Ron DeSantis open

21:17

the door to potentially

21:20

pardon insurrectionists? Is

21:22

he really looking at saying, oh, maybe that's 1100

21:25

votes that I desperately need? Look,

21:29

this is part of a failing strategy

21:32

of DeSantis. To

21:35

try to get to the right of Donald Trump

21:37

here. You know,

21:39

I worked in this party for a long

21:41

time and the idea that it's now become

21:43

the pro-criminal party, that's

21:46

really the race for president is who

21:48

can pardon the most criminals

21:50

the fastest? It's

21:54

really sort of amazing that this has happened.

21:58

It's a pretty transparent. play,

22:00

I think, by DeSantis to

22:03

appeal to these base

22:05

voters who think that Donald

22:08

Trump should be president. He won the

22:10

election. These were just peaceful

22:13

protesters. And everything that you

22:15

saw on television didn't really

22:17

happen. And

22:18

I don't think it's

22:20

going to work. I think,

22:22

you know, whenever DeSantis tries a new tack

22:24

like this, he seems to just go down further.

22:28

But it's really disgraceful. I mean,

22:30

to compare this to BLM, everybody

22:33

knows that's not true.

22:35

And it's a sad, desperate

22:38

plea on his part.

22:40

I'm just thinking back. What was it? Six months

22:42

ago, Ron DeSantis was cozying up

22:44

to the Big Money Palm Beach set. I

22:46

cannot believe any of them are

22:49

down with this. Basil, what's your take? The

22:52

Black Lives Matter reference was so startling

22:54

to me because I'm like, first of all, startling

22:58

but predictable. Staring but predictable because

23:00

why is it that you cannot take Black people

23:02

and Black culture out your mouth? What did we

23:04

do to you that you are so fixated

23:07

on what Black people are doing and how they've and

23:10

what they're doing to America? Because from my Spanish

23:12

point, we built America. So why

23:15

are you so fixated on getting rid of our culture

23:18

and getting that out of your schools? That's another

23:20

story. I was going to say, really? You can't

23:22

believe it. That's another story.

23:24

Because I was also thinking about the fact that in 1995, I

23:26

was one of a million

23:29

Black men that went to the Capitol with

23:31

the Billion Man March. And guess what? Not

23:33

one of us stormed the Capitol. In

23:36

fact, I think we even cleaned up after ourselves. So

23:38

for him to even make this connection

23:41

when people died on January

23:44

6th or thereafter because of those

23:46

events, people died. And the fact

23:48

that he's saying that he would pardon

23:52

individuals involved in that, tell me, tell

23:54

American people, why exactly are you running for president of the

23:56

United States? If you're saying that Donald Trump

23:59

didn't do anything wrong,

23:59

and the insurrectionists

24:02

on that day didn't do anything wrong. Why

24:04

are you running for president then?

24:06

Or is this Stuart Ron

24:08

DeSantis' way to appeal

24:10

to those Trump voters? Because Trump didn't

24:13

pardon them when he was still president. He

24:15

hasn't said he's going to do it now. Is this

24:18

Ron DeSantis' Hail Mary pass

24:20

to say, well, I'd do it for you guys. I'm the real

24:23

Magadaddy.

24:25

Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. Look, we should remember

24:27

the Magadaddies. I mean, go to commercial.

24:31

Seriously, I just said that on TV. I'm

24:34

sorry, Stuart.

24:36

I'll tell you, we should remember that Ron DeSantis

24:39

initially said that the elections in Florida

24:41

were, they were handled well,

24:44

no problems. He later spent over a million

24:46

dollars of taxpayers money to start basically

24:49

an election police force that

24:51

went out and spent a

24:54

million bucks. They arrested 20 people. I

24:57

think they're down to one that they are

24:59

charging with voter fraud. So

25:01

what most of these people have in common, they were African-American.

25:05

So what is Ron DeSantis? You know, one day he's defending

25:07

slavery and saying, well, really this AP

25:11

course that we're saying that people

25:13

that slaves learn valuable skills, that's

25:15

really okay. And now he's defending

25:18

attacking BLM and trying

25:20

to say that people who were involved

25:22

in violent attempt to overthrow

25:25

the government of the United States should not be held accountable.

25:28

It's just really why

25:31

there's no sort of

25:33

logic to why this is going to make

25:36

America a better country. There's

25:38

nothing optimistic about it. It's

25:40

just sort of grievance culture that the Republican

25:43

Party has fallen into.

25:44

It's also a dog whistle and a colossal

25:47

waste of time that has absolutely

25:49

nothing to do with policy, nothing

25:51

that will improve the lives of Floridians or

25:54

people from any other state. I want to ask

25:56

you about something pretty serious,

25:59

a bipartisan.

25:59

coalition of formal presidential

26:02

foundations have issued a collective

26:05

call to protect our democracy, right? That

26:08

big mouthful that I just gave you is

26:10

scary. It's startling. It

26:12

should be a wake-up call for America. However,

26:16

it's also kind of confusing. And is anyone really going to

26:18

notice? It's

26:20

an important act because

26:22

these foundations essentially

26:24

represent our history as a country. It

26:27

is bipartisan. It

26:29

is not just the individual signing

26:31

the letter. It is our collective history saying

26:33

this is a very dangerous time and we

26:36

need to pay attention to what's going on and

26:38

move away from it. Do something different

26:40

so that even if we disagree on policy, we

26:43

can actually uphold the principles of our democracy.

26:45

I'm glad it was done. I'm actually a trustee of

26:47

the Roosevelt Presidential Library, so technically

26:49

not the institute that signed on to this, but

26:52

affiliated enough to say, bravo.

26:54

It didn't happen before, but

26:56

I'm glad that it happened now because the

26:59

country needs to understand that

27:02

what's going to happen is that we will reflect on this

27:05

moment and we will be judged by what we did.

27:07

Stuart, everything Basil just

27:09

said, how do we get people?

27:12

How do these foundations get this

27:14

to break through so people understand

27:16

it? They realize it.

27:19

Yeah, listen, I think this is why it was so important

27:21

that in the last election, the president went out and

27:23

talked about democracy. Really,

27:26

that is what the 24 race is about.

27:28

Democracy is on the ballot. And

27:30

I say this and it sounds alarmist,

27:33

but I know these people and it's true. If

27:35

Donald Trump or Donald Trump want to be

27:37

like DeSantis is elected president,

27:40

it will be the last election that we can

27:42

recognize as an American election. So

27:45

we should listen to what they're saying. And

27:48

the difficulty with the unimaginable is that

27:50

it's hard to imagine. And that's

27:52

when democracy slide into autocracy.

27:54

So I wrote this book. It's what the

27:57

people who believe in democracy have

27:59

a.

27:59

difficulty imagining

28:02

that it will end.

28:04

And the autocrats take advantage of that. And

28:06

they use the powers of the

28:09

freedoms afforded in a democracy

28:11

to help end that democracy.

28:13

And that's exactly what's playing out

28:15

here. Stewart,

28:18

this is contributing to a whole lot of Democrats

28:20

out there panicking, panicking about

28:22

democracy being at stake, but also panicking

28:25

about Joe Biden's chances, right? Pointing

28:27

the finger, nitpicking. Today we saw

28:30

Joe, Jim Messina, who was the man

28:32

behind Barack Obama's 2012 victory,

28:35

come out

28:36

with a presentation and said, Democrats

28:38

need to stop panicking. Okay. This

28:41

thing, we got, we got a long road ahead and

28:43

Joe Biden is doing fine. Relax.

28:46

Do you agree with that?

28:46

I do. And he also said, this is a choice,

28:49

not a wish. And that's very, what does that

28:51

mean? It's very important to understand because

28:54

you, whatever it is that you do not like about

28:56

Joe Biden, he is the one that is standing

28:59

between normalcy and chaos,

29:01

good government and autocracy

29:04

and authoritarianism. That is a, that

29:06

should be a very important and simple

29:08

choice for most American voters. If

29:10

you don't want to vote for Joe Biden, you know

29:13

what, vote for the King Jeffries,

29:15

vote for those two Justins

29:16

in this Tennessee state house that

29:18

were expelled and of course brought back in. Vote

29:21

for the expansion of

29:23

your rights, not the abrogation of your

29:25

rights. Vote for better

29:28

government, normalcy, not

29:30

chaos. So there are a lot of choices

29:32

that

29:33

can be made. And what Jim Messina

29:35

is saying, and what I hope the message to Democrats

29:37

will be is that whether or

29:39

not you think Joe Biden is the best

29:42

that we have to offer, there is

29:46

an administration, a group of people,

29:49

a group of elected officials and

29:51

a whole policy agenda that is clearly

29:53

better than anything that's offered on the other

29:55

side.

29:56

The best being decency and

29:58

democracy. that he

30:01

can offer. All right then, I'm gonna give you

30:03

the last word, my friend Basil Smikle. Stuart

30:05

Stevens, thank you both so much. When

30:07

we come back, how much should we be worrying,

30:10

maybe not about Joe Biden, but we should be worrying

30:12

about China's slowing economy? Could

30:15

there be a knock-on effect here when the 11th Hour

30:17

continues?

30:24

The second biggest economy in the

30:26

world is going through a major slowdown,

30:29

and it could affect you. China's economy is

30:31

in absolute turmoil right now. Just today,

30:33

we learned that their exports have dropped

30:36

for the fourth straight month, and

30:38

we ain't in COVID over there anymore. So let's

30:40

dive into what it means for you, your money, and

30:43

the U.S. With me tonight, Anna Ashton,

30:45

Director of China Corporate Affairs at the Eurasia

30:48

Group. Anna, what's happening there? What went

30:50

wrong?

30:52

Well, China really is facing a

30:55

challenging time getting its economic

30:57

engine revved up again, essentially,

31:00

Stephanie. And yes,

31:02

exports from China

31:04

to the rest of the world have slowed month

31:06

after month, year on year, for the last several

31:08

months, although the August numbers were a

31:11

bit better than

31:11

the July numbers. In

31:14

addition to that, exports to

31:16

the U.S. market in particular are really

31:18

interesting because, whereas

31:20

exports to the

31:21

world were down 7% in August, 14% in

31:25

July, and then

31:27

we're down to the U.S., 25%, which is way

31:29

more than exports elsewhere, we're

31:31

down to the U.S. So it indicates

31:33

that, at least in the bilateral relationship,

31:36

a piece of what's going on is

31:38

supply chain diversification and de-risking.

31:41

But at home, China is dealing with

31:44

a lack of adequate consumer demand to

31:46

really get things going again.

31:48

So if they face a recession or

31:51

even an economic slowdown, what

31:53

could that mean for the U.S.?

31:56

Right, some people look at it and say, oh, well, China's our

31:58

adversary, we want to see them face it. Yeah, I

32:02

mean, I think, you know, when

32:06

policymakers in Washington were first really

32:09

embracing this idea that China is

32:11

the competitive challenge of the 21st century

32:14

for the United States, there was lots

32:16

of enthusiasm in some quarters about

32:18

the idea of total decoupling, just get

32:20

rid of all risks associated with any commercial

32:24

ties to China, any economic

32:26

intertwining. But the reality

32:29

is that the economic relationship is

32:31

deep, it is complex, and

32:34

there's a lot of

32:36

interdependence

32:39

between the United States and China. So when one

32:41

of the economies does bad, it

32:43

doesn't have universally

32:45

positive

32:45

effects for the other one, right? But

32:48

it really varies depending on

32:50

industry and aspects

32:52

of the economy,

32:55

how things will play out. So

32:57

for an

32:57

example, you know, if

32:59

China's economy continues to slow, there will be a lot

33:03

less demand globally for various commodities

33:05

that have driven its enormous real

33:07

estate sector that have met

33:09

its energy demand, and that will affect some

33:12

commodities exporters in the United States. On

33:15

the other hand, you

33:16

know, the demand for

33:18

those things decreasing globally could reduce

33:21

prices in the United States. Anna

33:23

Ashton, great to have you here. Thanks for making

33:26

us smarter tonight. When we come back, a

33:28

YouTuber known for her strict parenting

33:30

style has now been charged with

33:32

felony abuse, the escape

33:35

that led to her arrest. This is

33:37

a story people are talking about all over

33:39

this country. We're gonna get to the bottom of it and

33:41

the 11th hour continues.

33:48

This is a disturbing story

33:50

that a lot of people are talking about. So let's

33:52

get you up to speed. There is big news in

33:55

the YouTube world this week. Mommy influencer Ruby Frankie is officially charged

33:57

with a $10,000

33:59

with six counts of felony

34:02

child abuse. Last week, one of her children

34:04

climbed out of a window and ran to

34:06

a neighbor's house for help. That is according to a

34:08

probable cause, affidavit. Police

34:10

found her children malnourished, one of

34:12

them covered in duct tape with open

34:15

wounds. The family's YouTube channel has

34:17

long triggered concerns from viewers

34:19

over her strict parenting style. That channel

34:22

has now been deleted by YouTube. And

34:24

it is just the tip of the iceberg as the family

34:27

vlogging industry is coming under serious

34:29

fire

34:29

these days. NBC's internet culture

34:32

reporter, Callen Rosenblatt, has been covering

34:34

the story for weeks.

34:36

Take us to the beginning, okay? Who

34:38

is this woman? Where did this come from? So

34:40

Ruby Franke is a family

34:42

YouTuber who is based in Utah.

34:44

What is a family YouTuber? Somebody who tells

34:47

their life story on YouTube to try to give

34:49

you parenting advice and they build a business out of

34:51

it. They get sponsorship. Yep, they get sponsorships.

34:53

They show you their kids, their parenting style,

34:56

maybe products that they use or suggestions on

34:58

how you could best parent your kids. And that's an industry,

35:01

as you mentioned, that's come under serious fire because

35:03

it's been accused of exploiting children,

35:06

of taking advantage of children and using

35:08

children to profit. And that's a concern that

35:10

was here with Ruby Franke. Ruby

35:12

Franke was accused of abusing her children.

35:15

People would get concerned

35:17

over videos in which she claimed

35:20

that she withheld food from her children. She

35:22

made one child sleep on a bean bag for seven months

35:24

because she took her bedroom away as a punishment.

35:27

And now we're finding out that neighbors have been

35:29

calling Child Protective Services on her for

35:31

a long time. I even spoke with one

35:33

woman who called Child Protective Services,

35:35

said they did

35:36

a wellness check, nothing ever happened.

35:38

And they are just relieved that these kids did not

35:40

come out of that house in body bags.

35:42

That is crazy, okay?

35:45

And so during this, so there's been months and

35:47

months and months of criticism, yet

35:50

YouTube left it up there.

35:52

Have they given an answer as to why? Yeah,

35:55

so YouTube told me in a statement that

35:57

effectively they have removed the

35:59

channel

35:59

because it did violate the terms of service and that Ruby

36:02

Franky can never again access YouTube. However,

36:04

this channel was removed a few months

36:06

ago. She was working with another

36:08

woman who's also been arrested on child abuse charges

36:11

on another channel called Connections. That

36:13

channel was just removed by YouTube and they said

36:16

it is because of these charges that

36:18

were brought of the arrests that happened last week. That

36:20

is now bringing light to these channels and

36:22

is the reason that YouTube has removed them. However,

36:25

fans have been concerned for a long time and viewers

36:27

have been raising concerns for a long time and

36:29

they

36:29

also wanna know why didn't YouTube step

36:32

in sooner with this Connections channel?

36:34

Her sisters have now spoken out about

36:36

these charges. What are they saying? Her sisters

36:39

have effectively said that they're happy that the children

36:41

have gotten help, that they did

36:43

everything within their power legally to help. And

36:47

we have a lot of questions about what does that mean? What

36:49

does it mean? Did you try to get these children help? They're

36:51

not speaking out beyond those statements.

36:54

There was a YouTube video that one of the sisters posted.

36:57

It has since been deleted. We don't know why it's

36:59

been deleted, but people want

37:01

answers as to why not only did the family

37:03

not step in, did CPS

37:04

not step in, when these allegations

37:06

and these issues have

37:09

been on YouTube for years, that Ruby

37:11

Frankie in her own words was posting these

37:14

things to YouTube. Why didn't anyone step in

37:16

sooner, especially when neighbors were furious

37:18

about the treatment? Have we heard from her? What is she

37:20

saying? Ruby has not made a statement yet.

37:22

She is still in custody. She has a pretrial

37:25

hearing tomorrow along with

37:28

what I believe is her co-defendant, Jodi Hildebrandt.

37:30

Jodi Hildebrandt, again, also charged with child

37:33

abuse charges, six child abuse charges for each woman.

37:36

My God, these are very, very

37:38

extreme examples,

37:40

but the family vlogging universe

37:43

is massive, right? There are families, there are parents

37:45

all over the country, all over the world, making

37:47

this content day in and day out, and

37:50

they're pushing their kids. Are there

37:52

any protections for them? Because, you

37:54

know, in some aspects, yes, people will say, no,

37:56

this has turned into a great family business, but

37:58

at the same time.

37:59

These are children. This has been a huge— Right,

38:02

the entertainment industry has all sorts of laws

38:04

to protect children who are paid actors.

38:07

But when it's a parent

38:09

and the kids aren't getting paid but they're the product,

38:11

who's protecting them? That's the real question

38:14

here. Who is protecting these children? This is an

38:16

unregulated industry. Some people still

38:18

refer to it as the Wild West. There are

38:20

no regulations in place. For example, in Hollywood

38:22

there's the Kugel Law, which means that a child will get

38:24

a portion of the money that they made when they turn 18. That

38:27

doesn't exist on YouTube. There's no law protecting

38:29

a child that means they're going to get any of the income that

38:31

they're going to be protected. They're on 24-7.

38:34

These kids are forced to work on these channels 24-7.

38:37

And by work, some of the parents, I think,

38:39

can validate in their head or say, you

38:41

know, my child enjoys YouTube. They

38:43

like being on YouTube. I'm making a

38:45

ton of money and I'm giving them a beautiful life. But

38:47

the child can't consent to this. Okay, but isn't this crazy?

38:50

Child labor laws don't protect these

38:53

children because they're not getting paid

38:55

anything for the work that they're doing because the

38:57

parents are going, it's not work. It's just

38:59

our lifestyle. Exactly. And

39:01

that is why advocates have been calling for

39:03

regulations in this industry. There are

39:06

lots of people who hate the family vlogger

39:08

space

39:09

who think it is exploitative, who don't

39:11

feel the children can ever consent to the work that

39:13

they're doing, which obviously they cannot. And

39:16

so they're calling for stricter regulation.

39:18

There are court cases about this. They're going through now.

39:21

There's a court case about this YouTuber called

39:24

Piper Raquel. And there's some debate if

39:26

that will create new regulation

39:28

or law, if that will be the start of this. But

39:31

even five years ago, six years ago, there

39:33

were channels that were pranking

39:36

their children and then losing custody of their

39:38

children because the pranks were so extreme. I

39:40

mean, this is not new. It's been going on for years

39:43

and people are just waiting for something to

39:46

spark the regulations and it just hasn't happened

39:48

yet. But people want it now.

39:50

I don't know. Maybe children climbing out of

39:52

windows, asking for help and

39:55

food should spark something. Thank you

39:57

so much for your reporting. It's really important. Always

39:59

good to see you. When we come back, as

40:02

the number of local news outlets continues

40:04

to shrink in this country, we've got

40:06

something good to tell you. A new push to

40:08

protect the industry of information

40:10

in the 11th Hour of Continues.

40:14

On

40:30

the ground from all over the world, we

40:32

cover what you need to know and bring your

40:34

newsfeed to life. In Prime Time

40:36

and streaming live, it's your news playlist.

40:39

Join me for top story weeknights

40:41

at 7 Eastern on NBC News Now.

40:47

Do you think that our country can stay

40:50

strong, that our democracy can stay

40:52

strong well into

40:54

the future with, frankly,

40:57

hollowed out local journalism? I

41:00

worry that it can't, because I

41:02

worry that we are more

41:04

susceptible to this kind of

41:06

tribal attitude and behavior. Information

41:09

is the key to

41:11

our

41:12

democracy. Facts,

41:16

truth, good information,

41:19

and also just that conversation

41:22

that we, I think, enable,

41:26

it's essential.

41:28

Essential indeed. The last thing

41:30

before we go tonight, press

41:32

forward. As you saw in that really important

41:35

conversation, access to local

41:37

news is essential to our democracy.

41:39

Unfortunately, over the last few years, we have seen newsrooms

41:42

across this country shrinking, even

41:44

shutting their doors at an alarming rate, creating

41:47

massive news deserts for Americans

41:49

throughout this nation. And just last

41:52

month, we reported it here, the unprecedented

41:55

police raid of the Marion County

41:57

record in

41:58

Kansas. I hope you have subscribed.

41:59

to it, I begged you to last month. Well,

42:02

today, in an effort spearheaded by

42:04

the MacArthur Foundation, more than 20 nonprofit

42:07

organizations have pledged a

42:09

total of $500 million

42:11

over the next five years to address

42:13

the crisis in local news. The

42:16

New York Times reports the initiative, called

42:18

Press Forward, will use the money to,

42:20

quote, fund grants for existing local

42:22

for-profit and nonprofit newsrooms,

42:25

help build shared tools, provide resources

42:27

to diverse outlets, and those in historically

42:29

underserved areas, and

42:32

invest in nonpartisan public

42:34

policy development that advances

42:36

access to news and information. To

42:39

that, I say amen.

42:40

Let us remember that these local

42:43

papers are run by hardworking

42:45

Americans doing their very best to

42:47

provide a public service for their community.

42:50

We had the privilege of speaking with the Marion County

42:53

record publisher, Eric Meyer, about

42:55

his paper and what his recently

42:57

deceased mother, I think she was 98,

43:00

she was co-owner of the paper, would have thought

43:02

about the outpouring of support after the

43:04

raid. I

43:05

want you to watch this again. We've

43:08

doubled in circulation after this. She

43:10

would be very impressed with

43:13

the organizations that supported us, the news organizations

43:15

that are interviewing us, but I think mostly

43:17

with the average citizen

43:20

coming out there. And this is one of those issues

43:22

that crosses left and right.

43:25

We have people on the left who are telling us

43:27

about it, people on the right who are telling us about

43:29

it. They're all saying the same thing. This isn't

43:31

American. This isn't proper. This

43:34

is improper use of power

43:37

to intimidate someone. It's

43:40

a uniting issue, and there are darn

43:42

few of those

43:42

in our society these days. His

43:45

words were so important, we felt

43:47

the need to share them again. A very

43:50

good reminder to support your local paper

43:52

because never forget, the truth

43:54

matters, but only if you hear it. You're

43:57

going to get it here every night. And on

43:59

that note, I wish you a very good

44:01

night from all of our colleagues across the

44:03

networks of NBC news. Thanks for staying

44:05

up late with me. I will see you next

44:07

week.

44:15

That's

44:30

this

44:30

week on Why Is This Happening. Search

44:32

for Why Is This Happening wherever

44:47

you're

44:55

listening right

44:55

now and subscribe.