0:03

Getting yourself into the zone is

0:05

not an accident. It is

0:07

actually an intentional process and one that

0:09

can be repeated over and over again.

0:12

My guest today is the creator of a

0:14

new app that is designed at its core

0:16

to help you get your work done without

0:19

distraction. This is the 5am

0:21

Miracle, episode number 372. Finding

0:24

your flow with Ulf Schwaikendieck, founder

0:26

of the Centered app. Good

0:29

morning, I am Jeff Sanders and this

0:31

is the podcast dedicated to dominating your

0:33

day before breakfast. My

0:35

guest today is the founder and CEO

0:38

of Centered, the first flow state app

0:40

to bring modern mindfulness techniques into the

0:42

workplace and the productivity industry.

0:45

Centered reimagines standard task management apps

0:48

and allows you to create a

0:50

task playlist using custom-focused music or

0:52

your own Spotify, as well as

0:54

a virtual productivity coach to help

0:56

you find your flow state where

0:58

you are focused, aware and creating

1:01

your best work without distraction. Basically

1:03

in the zone. And

1:05

now here is my interview with Ulf Schwaikendieck.

1:16

Oh my god that was actually perfect. It

1:19

is a very rare thing that somebody can

1:21

pronounce Schwaikendieck the right way. Well

1:24

I will keep practicing that for all the episodes

1:26

in the future. But this is, I am glad

1:28

to talk to you today because you are a

1:30

guy that I recently met and I think that

1:32

the second that I saw who you are and

1:34

what you are doing, I was immediately drawn to

1:36

it because it really speaks to I think a

1:38

lot of the work that I do, the work

1:40

that I talk about here on the podcast and

1:42

that has to do with being in flow. And

1:45

so give us kind of your story of when you

1:47

kind of decided that that was a part of your

1:49

life or when you discovered it to be helpful. Like

1:51

what is your story behind flow? Yeah,

1:55

so I am an engineer by trade for

1:57

like a long long time, worked at work a

2:00

lovely cool startups and big companies.

2:03

I was at Siri for instance, and

2:06

then later on at Apple, obviously

2:08

that story happened. And

2:12

engineers in general always love this

2:14

concept of flow. I think a

2:16

lot of us became engineers or

2:19

software engineers because we experienced this

2:21

feeling of flow really early on.

2:24

Throughout my career lately, flow

2:27

didn't happen that often anymore. Didn't

2:29

you notice that flow for

2:31

a lot of people kind of drifts

2:34

away, especially when you get into like

2:36

management and whatnot. It's just, it's a

2:38

rare thing, right? Have

2:41

you, the other interesting pieces,

2:43

do you remember in like

2:46

a corporate setting, how many people come

2:48

in and say, oh

2:51

my God, today I got work

2:53

done. It barely ever

2:55

happens. So true. It's like

2:57

people are out of the sun saying, wow, this

2:59

morning I come early to the office when nobody

3:01

else is there so I can actually get work

3:04

done. It sounds so

3:06

terrible to me. And that was

3:08

really like the trigger to figure out, it's

3:10

like, well, but the like

3:12

quote unquote work done is the thing that we

3:14

live for. That is why we like wake up

3:16

in the morning and that is why we go

3:18

and picked our job and that what fulfills us.

3:21

That's what brings this world forward too.

3:24

And we barely ever experienced

3:27

that feeling these days. So

3:29

I set out to fix

3:32

that. So how would you

3:34

define flow? Cause I've looked this word up many

3:36

times in the past trying to nail down a

3:38

specific definition and it seems to be a general

3:41

sense of being in the zone or how

3:44

would you describe it? I

3:47

usually go with an example

3:49

here rather than just another

3:52

textbook definition of it. To

3:55

me, flow is that feeling when

3:58

you are in an airplane and open. your

4:00

laptop. It's like the most

4:03

productive space, weirdly, to ever get

4:05

any work done. You open

4:07

your laptop in an airplane, there's nobody that

4:09

bugs you, there's most of the time no

4:11

internet, so no notifications come in, and you

4:13

get to write, you get to code, you

4:15

get to design. Time flies by

4:17

without you even noticing and out of a sudden

4:20

you are in the next place where you're set

4:22

out to go to. And

4:24

that feeling of anything else passes

4:26

by, you're feeling like the loss

4:28

of time and you're feeling highly

4:31

concentrated in what you do and it

4:34

was hyper productive too is

4:36

what I would explain as flow.

4:40

Yeah, I think all of us have experienced

4:42

that, but I think that it's one of

4:44

those, I mean we're not always in airplanes.

4:46

So I guess more... So

4:49

let's replicate that, right? Right, so I guess

4:51

that's the question, how do we tap into

4:53

flow more often, how do we make sure

4:55

that if we can set ourselves up to

4:57

be in that position to experience that and

4:59

without being in those very specific environments, like

5:01

how can we do that? So

5:04

and that's why we ended up

5:06

building Centered. As an app that

5:09

helps you to achieve flow more

5:11

often, get in there quicker and

5:14

stay in there for longer.

5:16

You've had a chance to play with the

5:18

app yourself a little bit, what do you think

5:20

so far? Oh, definitely. I think it's very intriguing

5:22

to have an app, I've not

5:24

experienced this before where you said, I'm going to

5:26

play a task, I'm going to start this and

5:28

then let it kind of happen and it just

5:30

creates an environment where it says, okay, now Jeff,

5:33

just do one thing and do it well and

5:35

get it done. And I think that that, I've

5:37

had an experience like that similarly in the past,

5:40

being very intentional when I know I want to block

5:42

distractions and I want to make sure I'm getting stuff

5:44

done, but I've never seen an app really,

5:46

its primary focus is to

5:48

put me in that space. I think that's a

5:50

really, really intriguing idea, I love it. Yeah,

5:53

and so that's what we were set out

5:55

to do. We're trying to build an operating

5:57

system for productivity and really like a tool.

6:00

that helps you to get into

6:02

flow. In

6:04

our first iteration of this, we're like

6:06

a young 11 months old startup. We

6:10

focus mostly on playing one task,

6:12

hitting play on a task, monotasking

6:14

is super important, also time boxing

6:17

is very important. We ask you

6:19

right now to actually think about

6:21

how long do you think you

6:23

will need to complete that task.

6:26

So you hit play on this

6:29

task, and we try to

6:31

do anything possible that worked for

6:33

our customers before to get quicker

6:35

into flow. You talk

6:39

in your podcast a lot about

6:42

distraction blocking, and setting yourself up

6:44

with the right work environment. That

6:48

is the core of achieving flow.

6:51

That is like if

6:53

you have a busy mind

6:55

all around, like how can you out of

6:57

a sudden dive into something, like

6:59

on your computer if your office for instance is

7:01

just a mess. So I

7:04

think more and more people are tackling

7:07

that aspect, but then out of a

7:09

sudden your computer itself is still a

7:11

mess. You're getting a ton

7:13

of notifications all the time, you're having

7:15

probably your Slack or your Microsoft Teams

7:18

open, or you're having iMessages on your

7:20

computer. They're just distractions

7:22

all the time. And yes, you

7:24

can put your computer into specific

7:27

modes. You can try

7:29

to remember to go into certain apps,

7:31

say Slack and put that in a

7:33

certain mode, so it actually respects your

7:35

flow time. And we

7:37

figured we wanted to do all of that

7:39

automatically for you. So we centered,

7:42

when you hit play on a task,

7:44

we put your entire system into not

7:46

disturb mode. We connect to, for instance,

7:48

your Slack account and put that to

7:50

do not disturb mode. There's one specific

7:52

piece here that's actually really important.

7:55

It sets your message to, I am in a

7:57

focus centered session, to let your coworkers

7:59

know... know that you are trying to flow

8:01

right now. And

8:03

it actually works magical. Your

8:05

coworkers are respecting that, at

8:08

least from our data so far

8:10

are respecting that. And really, the only interruption

8:12

you might get after your flow session was

8:14

a message of like, what was that? I

8:16

want that. It made me

8:18

not want to interact with you during that

8:20

time. So there's

8:22

that, and then there's music that

8:24

we play. And that is specific

8:26

music that is designed to help

8:28

you, again, remember to be in

8:31

flow, be in that state

8:33

of doing one thing at a time. It's

8:36

music that is not too exciting. It's

8:38

not too boring. You experienced it before

8:40

in the app too. It

8:42

just helps you to get into

8:44

that state quicker. And

8:46

then lastly, and I think that

8:48

is our special sauce to this,

8:51

you're introduced to NOAA, your

8:54

productivity guide. NOAA

8:56

is like, think of it like

8:58

as a Siri for productivity. NOAA

9:01

greets you, NOAA gives you check-ins when you're

9:03

like halfway done with your task, when you're

9:05

almost done with your task. And

9:07

NOAA also detects when you get

9:10

distracted on your computer and

9:12

just highlights that when you say, go

9:15

to YouTube out of a sudden or go

9:17

to like iMessages of Slack while you were

9:19

set to a writing task

9:21

or a podcast editing task. So

9:25

with that together, I

9:27

feel like we're building like an automated

9:29

tool to help you to get into

9:31

that flow state quicker and stay there

9:33

longer and actually get your work done.

9:37

Yeah, it is interesting and really creative

9:39

in that sense to have combined all

9:41

of these elements together because I have

9:43

a specific checklist that I use before

9:45

I begin a focused block of time.

9:48

And that checklist includes all these things

9:50

that basically the center does automatically. So

9:52

I'm manually turning off distractions and notifications

9:54

and closing apps and blocking websites and

9:57

all of those things just to guarantee

9:59

I get. in the zone. I love

10:01

the idea that I could start a focus

10:03

block of time and just get into that

10:05

zone really almost instantly in that sense of

10:08

just like it shuts down the world so

10:10

you can just do one thing. That's

10:13

100% correct and that is

10:15

exactly that like checklist that we're running

10:17

down. Again, I think

10:19

there are a handful of us that have these

10:21

checklists and do them but our idea was like

10:23

how do we really get this to the masses?

10:25

How do we get this feeling to really any

10:30

knowledge worker out there that spends some time on

10:32

the computer? Most of the

10:34

people just don't like

10:36

to prepare themselves as much. They

10:38

want to click a button, right?

10:40

That's almost as it.

10:43

It needs to be very, very simple to get

10:45

into that state of experience for the first time

10:47

until you know what you missed before. That's

10:51

very true. You mentioned the music element.

10:53

I'm curious about that too because I've toyed

10:55

around with a lot of music apps in

10:57

the past. I began with like house and

10:59

techno music and I've changed over to classical

11:01

for a while. Do you

11:03

find that the music element is an

11:05

essential component to being in flow or

11:07

is that something that is more like

11:09

an individual choice? Over

11:13

70% of our

11:15

customers are having the music

11:17

turned on by default. That

11:20

might be a data that might be a good data point here.

11:23

I haven't seen yet a scientific

11:25

conclusive paper that that

11:28

says like that, for instance, by Nolibeads

11:30

are actually scientifically

11:33

proven to to make you more focused and

11:35

get you quicker into flow. It does work

11:37

for me. Same for our

11:39

music. It does work for a lot

11:41

of our customers. We

11:43

always give you the chance to also

11:45

link it to Spotify and play your

11:47

music through Spotify if you want

11:50

to have your death metal playing

11:52

while you're focusing. We

11:55

do have customers that love that and

11:58

that is what gets us them into

12:00

flow. But overall,

12:02

I feel like it is just

12:04

again, another fluff shambell for you.

12:06

Like you, it is

12:09

all about, you know, building habits and how

12:11

do we build habits by giving you like

12:13

good triggers when when something good

12:16

happened to you, right, you completed a task,

12:18

we take over your screen, we show you

12:20

a beautiful

12:23

image and, and,

12:25

and remind you to give yourself gratitude that you

12:27

just completed that that is, for instance, one of

12:29

the like triggers, like you want more of that,

12:31

you feel good about what you just done. And

12:34

now you're connecting that to the music of,

12:37

oh, I'm listening to the music, that means this

12:39

is my focus time. And, you know,

12:41

we have we have about a 80 hours

12:44

worth of music right now, growing

12:47

about 10 hours every month. And,

12:50

and it really helps our

12:52

users to get into this

12:54

state. So

12:58

there's an interesting anecdote, we had a

13:00

we had a bug a while ago

13:02

in our like beta phase, and we

13:04

were stopping to play music. And

13:07

the moment that happened before I even noticed

13:09

that my

13:11

phone would blow up from from some

13:13

of our beta users, and they're basically

13:15

saying, bring it back immediately, I cannot

13:17

work today otherwise. And,

13:19

and so that that's yet another,

13:22

you know, funny anecdote of, wow,

13:24

some people for some people, it

13:26

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I definitely... noticed that if I

16:01

put on headphones and I listen to the

16:03

right kind of music, like time really does

16:05

disappear and I really can just get really

16:07

into a task, which is kind of my

16:09

next question here. Are there specific tasks

16:11

that you tend to do better in focus

16:14

blocks or are certain tasks

16:16

that you think work better with, with centered in terms

16:18

of, you know, I'm going to choose to do like,

16:20

I'm going to write for a while, code for a

16:22

while. Like are there ones that are easier to get

16:24

into flow or is your goal to get into flow

16:26

just as often as possible with everything you're working on?

16:30

So our goal, and that's how we

16:32

actually set up our entire company is

16:34

for anybody that works for

16:36

us, for instance, has to

16:38

get into two hours of flow a day.

16:41

We have a flow block in our

16:43

calendars and it's completely blocked out. Nobody

16:45

gets to talk to anybody and that's

16:47

really like the world is on fire.

16:51

And it is interesting how

16:53

that changed us in terms of output. I

16:57

know, I know you had a, who

17:00

is your lovely guest? You had like a guest

17:02

on your startup that was talking about running startups

17:07

actually without working for 14 hours

17:09

a day. What was that? Was

17:12

it, what is, was it Steve? I

17:16

listened to one of your episodes. Yeah.

17:18

And it was like, yes, that is

17:20

exactly it. Like more people should think

17:23

about how we can work more focused.

17:26

Every day, even when we're

17:28

building a young early company and have actually

17:31

time for our friends,

17:34

our family, um, for

17:36

our loved ones to like go for a walk and take care of

17:39

your body and not just work

17:41

really long hours. And I think flow

17:43

is the solution to that. Actually, you

17:45

get more done and less time. So

17:49

to go back to, to go back to

17:51

your, to your question though, I

17:54

think it really depends on what you do. It

17:56

really works well for shallow tasks.

18:00

many, many cello tasks that I'm running

18:02

through and I just need to get out

18:05

and I don't wanna get distracted and I

18:07

just know these 10 things have to be

18:09

done or these 20 emails have to be

18:12

answered. And it

18:14

works really well for the

18:17

design work, for the writing work, for

18:19

the editing work, for the programming work.

18:23

So it really works, it's a

18:25

different set. Depends, I think

18:27

about it rather when I do onboarding with

18:31

our customers, I ask them, when is the

18:33

time where they can be most creative and

18:35

when is the time they get most distracted?

18:37

It's mostly in your 3 p.m. in the

18:39

afternoon when you get to your level and

18:41

you're like, okay, that is actually a pretty

18:43

good time to make

18:46

yourself a coffee, whatever your poison

18:48

is, and sit

18:51

down for half an hour and do your

18:53

cello tasks in one focus-centered session

18:55

and you're done with them. They're

18:57

these typical procrastination tasks that we

19:00

all have and we don't really

19:02

wanna get done. But

19:04

if you set the intention right for it, I

19:07

think center is great for that as well. You

19:11

get less of that deep everything,

19:13

everything fades out feeling and you get

19:15

more that like, wow, I just spent

19:17

half an hour and get all my

19:19

work done, accomplishment feeling through going through

19:21

your cello task. Yeah,

19:23

definitely. Either one of those is gonna lead

19:25

to being more productive and feeling better about

19:27

it. I'm curious in terms of

19:30

the environment because I know one thing that I

19:32

tend to focus on a lot when I wanna

19:34

get focused is just where I physically am, people

19:36

that are around me, my dog being

19:38

in the room, for example, the distraction I tend to

19:40

try to get rid of. It's like, how do I,

19:42

what kind of environment are you

19:44

trying to build so that you can be

19:46

in flow more consistently? So

19:50

we serve you right now about

19:52

a video a day, very short,

19:54

like one and a

19:56

half video where we talk about exactly these

19:59

topics of, okay. Do you set

20:01

up the best work environment? What

20:03

not for specific cases? One that

20:05

really works well for me is

20:08

exit set up the right sent.

20:10

In my room and like a diffuser

20:12

and I just I put my peppermint

20:15

on when I'm trying to be productive

20:17

are I'm if I'm. Stressing.

20:19

Out a lover. but my lavender in

20:21

there and this calms me down a

20:24

little bit as it's like one piece

20:26

of like keeping the room and a

20:28

certain mode. again. it's like that have

20:30

lost some value. Smell something ah a

20:32

long enough and know that that smell

20:35

as associated again with a certain tasks

20:37

that you do. You

20:40

get a quick trip into it and you're less

20:42

stressed out about it. So

20:44

for instance like again Nexus malice like

20:46

one of the the this solutions to

20:49

it or sense rather than smell I

20:51

guess I'm. So. So

20:53

that was one of the other one

20:56

is really just builds your ritual when

20:58

you work and and as similar to

21:00

meditation right where you get really good

21:02

a meditation you can sit and the

21:05

busiest a train station and and in

21:07

the middle of the hustle and bustle

21:09

and the close your eyes first second

21:12

and and get centered and forget about

21:14

the world around you. I think that's

21:16

something we all. My.

21:18

Can strive for. I would love to. you

21:21

know, sit sit in a corner in a

21:23

hotel lobby and still be able to flow

21:25

and sometimes I am. Headphones helped me a

21:27

lot with that. So. To

21:30

me, it's like putting a headphone on. Means.

21:33

I am. Plugged. In and

21:35

to my says synonym for it's assume some

21:37

programming work. Yeah.

21:40

A look at idea of the the sense are

21:42

changing the room I have for a long time

21:44

you see is a candle than I would like

21:46

to signify like okay now beginning my my focus

21:48

block and to me that was just a visual

21:50

reminder that I was going to focus for a

21:52

while by why I the idea of the sent

21:55

changing also as a see another trigger to say

21:57

you're now it's slow time. Here's

21:59

another. Here's another fun thing that we

22:01

do right now. if you that we have

22:04

this. Since we're on await

22:06

us that you can once you are

22:08

in centered she can get your friends

22:11

into centered ahead of time when they

22:13

were it normally just on the weightless

22:15

I'm waiting for us to to admire.

22:18

Use a sir service the moments you

22:20

have five friends as often as far

22:22

as the weightless and get them into

22:24

scented waxes sending you a little wooden

22:27

box with the little foam padding on

22:29

the bottom of it as just the

22:31

bamboo box. It fits just and I

22:34

phone and. Our our ideas said

22:36

you know whenever you get an A

22:38

center session don't even try to have

22:40

your phone on your desk or anywhere

22:42

to put it in the box. Disappear

22:44

for little like box that you can

22:46

put on your desk even if your

22:48

phone vibrates it will it will take

22:50

that by base not with that foam

22:52

padding so really want get distracted by

22:54

your while you inflow. Of.

22:56

A really good idea I was has diverted people

22:59

have been lock boxes before for their phones to

23:01

so make sure they are going to be a

23:03

distraction free for a long time. I turn my

23:05

phone off and put it another room in the

23:07

house this again away from east Ohio. but yeah

23:10

I loved the phone patty idea that they really

23:12

good one. You. Know you East

23:14

Kent is still know it's there are. even

23:16

though it's a little bit like shredding a

23:18

boxer, you don't really know how to serve.

23:21

we're not seeing any what's better but yeah

23:23

I think out for me personally and were

23:25

so well. So. For a

23:27

lot of our listeners they're working from home and

23:29

and have been for a while now. How

23:31

can we get into Flow more often from home

23:34

Because it's obviously going to be a probably

23:36

a more distracting of armor for lot of

23:38

us of his other ways that we can. I

23:40

guess it's hide ourselves away or are getting

23:42

to flow even when we're in like a more

23:44

difficult environment. Yeah.

23:48

It goes back to to exit

23:50

the. Educating the people

23:52

around you, I'm. Sermon.

23:54

You know we Germans always love

23:57

to educate people regard to assess.

24:00

Where where astronauts about

24:02

it? But. I think

24:04

that there's something to aid of

24:06

explaining to the people in your

24:08

house old even a playful way

24:11

I are. You know if it's

24:13

a grown up or suits T

24:15

T y fire or inlaws that

24:17

a that. It's

24:19

only gonna be for x amount of time.

24:22

I think setting the expectations

24:24

like look this is just

24:26

me doing this for a

24:28

certain time. It's explaining why

24:30

you doing this and what

24:32

the outcome for them. his

24:34

arm say hey I'm. In

24:37

Law. I'm actually gonna spend some time later

24:39

with you that I wouldn't be able to

24:41

spend otherwise if I wouldn't be doing this

24:43

very focused session right now because it would

24:46

take me a lot longer to do the

24:48

just a sec having this open communication but

24:50

the impact of you actually putting your headphones

24:52

on and what it means if you had

24:54

fun as on that you probably should be

24:57

left alone for just half an hour. just

24:59

an hour at a time you will take

25:01

breaks and you will spend more time with

25:03

your loved ones. And that it is actually

25:05

really good for everybody involved. Yeah.

25:08

Certain, I know that's one thing I've worked with

25:10

you. My wife works from home as well and

25:13

so I have the a sign on my door

25:15

that says you are focused block of times as

25:17

he knows that I'm doing that and having those

25:19

conversations or that changed a lot for us. In

25:22

terms of the under go shooting who is focusing

25:24

when and and for how long and I once

25:26

you have a good rhythm there is pretty amazing

25:28

how much more everyone gets more done. Much

25:32

but it. but that is like this

25:34

one piece of a yeah. everybody gets

25:36

more work done but maybe maybe you

25:38

realize that to. My. Wife and

25:40

I have the same the same things.

25:42

We actually get to spend more quality

25:44

time with each other to him because

25:46

we got off work done and that

25:49

means like we can take that evening

25:51

stroll around the block or we can

25:53

go visit the in laws because there's

25:55

actually the work is done. As

25:58

a really good point yeah and a dick. That idea

26:00

said before, it's just like when you can

26:02

focus your and distractions are gone, you're going

26:05

to get more done and old and less

26:07

time and that just gonna lead to a

26:09

workday or ultimately And I love how those

26:11

kinds of days of i feel so much

26:14

more dislike physically better because the work I've

26:16

done faster and for me my quality bar

26:18

also goes up by I get more worked

26:20

on as betters well. One

26:23

hundred percent agree because you figured out

26:25

what you're good time. So when your

26:27

output is the highest raid armor and

26:29

with that type of us, have the

26:32

right environment set up your fc got

26:34

enough sleep. The curse you didn't pull

26:36

an all nighter. You

26:38

don't have to take any. You

26:41

know, supplements to help you focus on

26:43

what mods or I'm looking at. You

26:45

students read their a farm and occurs

26:48

because you can actually just. Set

26:51

up your body and or right way to get.

26:53

Really? Meaningful deep work done and

26:55

less time. If. You

26:58

have the right environment and more. See

27:00

if it's these days deep work, you

27:02

need that right environment. Not just in

27:04

your office and year study hall or

27:06

in your like dorm room you needed

27:08

inside of your brain and inside of

27:10

your computer. That's really that right environment.

27:12

Soon that's hopefully will be helping with.

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again, that's 5ammiraclepremium.com. You

29:45

know, speaking of supplements, I know that one

29:47

thing I have toyed with over the years

29:49

or doing things like having a green tea

29:52

with a focused block of time versus a

29:54

coffee, versus a supplement or something. Have you

29:56

found that people can get into flow kind

29:58

of better or worse in terms of? of

30:00

balancing your nutrition or hydration or

30:02

things like that? Or how

30:05

much does your diet affect your

30:07

ability to get into flow? Interesting,

30:10

I have not experimented too

30:12

much with it myself. I'm

30:15

a big fan of intermittent fasting. I

30:18

usually don't eat until two, three

30:20

in the afternoon and stop eating

30:23

at like eight. There's

30:25

one, I think the

30:27

hardcore intermittent faster would

30:31

roll the ass right now because there's

30:33

one exemption here for me. I

30:35

am a cappuccino

30:38

drinker and I cannot have it without milk.

30:40

So that is I guess like my one

30:43

poison that I'm taking to

30:45

technically break my fasting. But I'm

30:47

trying not to have any other

30:49

food before that. Helps me concentrate.

30:52

A lot of our employees

30:54

swear by this mix called Magic Mind. I

31:00

don't know if you have heard of those

31:03

shots from James Beshara. Oh,

31:06

I had him as a guest on my show. Yeah. Oh,

31:09

there you go. Yeah, so they

31:11

really enjoy drinking it in the

31:13

morning and it feels like they're

31:16

getting more work done with that. It's a

31:18

good supplement to get you in focus quicker.

31:23

Yeah, I've definitely found that we have the right mix

31:25

of stuff. I mean, for me, I love

31:28

coffee. I love to be able to be

31:30

caffeinated, but I know that there's definitely a

31:32

balance of that to make sure that I

31:34

can focus well because it's easy to have

31:37

too much and then I'm just distracted by

31:39

myself because I'm too caffeinated. So there is

31:41

a healthy balance somewhere in there. 100% agree.

31:44

I think, you know, Matcha is another

31:46

really good supplement there, I think, which

31:48

is like one of the ingredients, for

31:50

instance. I'm with you. I'm an absolute

31:53

coffee nerd. So

31:55

I could not go

31:58

without it and it was really hard. to

32:00

learn how to put

32:02

my coffee consumption on a schedule.

32:07

That's difficult too with intermittent fasting as well

32:10

and I've done the same thing the last

32:12

few months and I know that there's a

32:14

certain balance of what you consume and when

32:16

and how that affects your energy, your focus,

32:19

your mood. All those things are really tied

32:21

together but I think it is that knowing

32:24

yourself and knowing how you respond to those

32:26

things definitely helps a lot. I

32:28

think the one important piece here

32:31

to highlight though is that there's

32:33

no silver bullet. The

32:35

human body is overall

32:39

so different for every person that you

32:41

really have to figure out

32:44

what works for you and just

32:47

because you and I say, well, this sand

32:49

works really well for me, you might feel

32:51

appalled to it. So you have to find

32:53

your own way and you have to kind

32:55

of make it a fun game to see,

32:58

well, is it coffee, tea, matcha, is

33:01

it peppermint, lavender, whatever.

33:05

It's just like this fun experimentation until you

33:07

figure out what's

33:09

working and what not and I

33:11

think that goes back to great experimentation is

33:14

great but if you just

33:16

listen inwards or you meditate in the morning, you're

33:18

like, okay, how do I feel today? Did this

33:20

make a change? It's very

33:23

unscientific. And

33:25

with centered again, it comes back to you can

33:28

actually measure based on

33:30

your distractions how certain impacts

33:32

of your environment changed over

33:35

time your productivity because you

33:37

will help to show you

33:39

where you got distracted and how often and

33:42

what not. So you can actually use that

33:44

to measure your experimentation

33:46

game. Yeah, certainly

33:48

and that's definitely been a big part of my

33:50

entire journey. I feel like I'm constantly trying to

33:52

figure out who I am, how I work, how

33:54

I work best. It's kind of

33:56

a game but it's one that has led

33:58

to lots of amazing, really amazing. Realizations about

34:00

how I work best and speaking of

34:02

that you mentioned meditation earlier I don't

34:05

tend to meditate as often as I'd like

34:07

to and I'm curious as to do you

34:09

think that Meditation as a practice helps people

34:11

to get into flow better or more often

34:13

Are you trying to train your brain to

34:15

think more clearly or or where do you

34:17

think that? Those kinds of practices

34:19

playing to this this desire to be in flow

34:21

more often. I Think

34:24

less about meditation and more

34:26

of all about mindfulness Okay,

34:29

but just that practice of realizing

34:33

what's happening with yourself of

34:35

listening to What

34:37

that feeling is that you're experiencing right

34:39

now being aware of? Your

34:42

action that you're that you're doing right now. I

34:44

think that really Helps

34:48

you to get into flow the more

34:50

you can listen to yourself in your

34:52

body trying to you

34:55

know send you signals and the The

34:59

way you can actually use these signals to either

35:01

just you know Tag an emotion

35:03

for instance and say cool. This is this

35:05

is the emotion right now. This is just

35:07

an emotion it will pass Can

35:10

really help you in your flow practice

35:13

as well because you can

35:15

say well, you know I'm really

35:17

stuck right now. I'm in getting

35:19

frustrated. Hmm. Oh, I'm realizing

35:21

it's frustration that I'm feeling right now I

35:23

know that feeling is going to pass Let's

35:26

take a deep breath and just try

35:28

and like get on that problem once more

35:30

And and I

35:32

think those two things are very

35:34

connected And

35:37

that is the the interesting piece

35:39

about overall meditation mindfulness of It

35:43

kind of creeps into every aspect of your

35:46

life, right you learn how to communicate with

35:48

your partner better The

35:50

moment you actually learn how to listen

35:52

to yourself you probably can listen to

35:54

others as well But

35:57

it is it is a it's a muscle

36:00

that needs to be trained. And

36:02

that's why I think all of us are saying

36:07

I would love to meditate more,

36:09

but it's hard to make

36:11

time for it. Yeah, certainly.

36:13

It's one of those that once you're in

36:15

it in a flow, to actually to do

36:18

it often, the flow of habits, I feel

36:20

like that's when things begin to click. I

36:22

know recently I've been going through a different

36:24

phase in my work where I'm doing more

36:26

writing, more content creation, and

36:28

I tend to find I can get into

36:30

a flow better with that. And it becomes

36:32

kind of like a meditation in a sense

36:35

that when I do shut down distractions, I

36:37

have more awareness and I can get into

36:39

the flow faster just simply because I'm doing

36:41

one thing and I'm like letting myself get

36:43

into it fully. There's

36:46

also just this aspect of planning your

36:48

flow, where you're saying,

36:50

we're really setting the intention before

36:53

you get into flow to

36:55

say, this is what I want to achieve. And

36:58

I think this is still hard for

37:00

us when we use task management software

37:03

and whatnot, where we're saying,

37:05

it's like what is it actually that we

37:08

can achieve within the next hour? It's

37:10

not write chapter one of your

37:12

book. It is something

37:15

more fine-grained, tuned to what you

37:17

can actually done in a flow

37:20

session. And sometimes we jump

37:22

too quickly into saying, play on write chapter

37:24

one of my book without

37:26

actually thinking about the one

37:28

hour we can actually spend on that right now

37:30

and what we want to accomplish in that one

37:32

hour. And it's really hard to come up with

37:34

what we think we can accomplish in an hour,

37:37

right? Yeah, that's very true. I

37:39

mean, to that exact example, that's how I

37:41

learned to write books better was to be

37:43

more specific. And I wouldn't say write the

37:45

first chapter. It'd be more like research this

37:47

topic or write two pages or whatever the

37:49

case was. Something that's more manageable in that

37:51

block session. But yeah, I find that the

37:54

more awareness you have over

37:56

what you want to accomplish and set that intention,

37:58

that certainly makes a huge difference. a huge difference

38:00

in terms of flow and overall

38:02

productivity. I 100% agree. So

38:06

is there anything else about the centered app you want

38:08

to mention, or anything else about flow that you think

38:10

our listeners would be able to apply

38:12

today, or a way to act on stuff that could

38:14

take to set a better intention or

38:16

to get more done today? I

38:19

think here's really the interesting

38:21

piece when we think about

38:23

flow that I love

38:25

to talk about, is just

38:29

imagine a world where all of

38:31

us would spend two

38:33

hours a day in flow. How

38:36

would this world look like? We

38:38

would have brand new companies

38:40

being founded. We would

38:42

have probably cures to the diseases

38:45

that we're eagerly waiting

38:47

for quicker. We would have

38:50

new writing pieces of the

38:52

century written. If we

38:54

would actually give our supercomputer

38:56

in our head, our brain, actually

38:58

the chance to work on full

39:01

capacity. And I

39:04

feel like our entire society

39:06

is moving away from that. It's

39:09

all about quick bites left and

39:11

right, a quick interruption here, a

39:14

quick thing there, a

39:16

15-second video, followed by

39:18

another 15-second video. And

39:22

that is not creating the works of

39:24

the century. The two

39:27

hours sitting down every day and being

39:30

in a good place, putting your headphones

39:32

on, listening to music, and trying to

39:34

not get distracted, that

39:36

is what actually brings us as

39:39

a species forward. Yeah,

39:42

certainly. And that's really what we're trying

39:44

to figure out and helping with the

39:47

centers. Well, just the

39:49

concept of getting into deep work and being able

39:51

to do more of that, I think you're totally

39:53

right that we missed that so much when all

39:55

we're doing is the little stuff. And I mean,

39:57

two hours a day seems so manageable for most.

40:00

people to think that I could block distractions

40:02

for that amount of time and then allow

40:04

myself to work on something in a deep

40:06

way that previously would have been either postponed

40:08

or probably never even worked on at all.

40:12

I think it's interesting though, how

40:14

do we get around the idea

40:16

of setting the

40:18

expectation that

40:21

for instance an email needs to

40:23

be answered within 15 minutes or whatsoever

40:26

when you receive it? A

40:28

lot of people are just, I

40:30

am so surprised when I

40:32

do three blocks of email a day,

40:35

the morning, the lunchtime and in

40:37

the evening and I don't open

40:39

my email doing that anyways, otherwise.

40:43

And it's so interesting to see

40:46

how quickly even

40:49

doing like an email flow session, how

40:52

quickly people answer already. And

40:55

I'm just sitting there and I'm just like, don't

40:58

we have other more important things to do

41:00

than like take our phone the moment it

41:02

lights up and do

41:05

a quick reply to that email because

41:08

of that anxiety of like an overflowing

41:10

inbox. It

41:12

just sounds so counterintuitive of

41:15

us smart, productive people, right?

41:18

That we have that urge of responding to email

41:20

all the time. Well,

41:22

I think to that degree, it's also

41:25

that just realizing that behavior is addicting

41:27

and it's wanting to have that kind

41:29

of response rate and being always attentive.

41:32

It's, you feel productive, that hit of

41:34

dopamine whenever that happens and like that

41:37

tends to override our desire to do

41:39

the deep work that's actually more meaningful

41:42

and it's yeah, it's like we have to unlearn

41:44

those bad habits to get to a place where

41:46

we're not just reacting all the time. And

41:49

that goes back to mindfulness. Like first of all,

41:51

before we can even start to

41:54

unlearn these habits, we have to be aware

41:56

of these habits and aware of these effects

41:58

that, variable

42:00

reward triggers and we're gonna every

42:03

single time you know a

42:05

phone lights up it can be something different it can

42:07

be something great it can be that next job offer

42:09

that came in it could also be your boss

42:12

yelling at you you never know that it's a

42:14

little bit of that anxiety piece to it and

42:16

we just have

42:18

to start being aware of what

42:21

these systems are designed for and

42:24

how we experience them

42:27

before we can even start working

42:29

on eliminating that right yeah

42:32

very true very true all

42:34

this has been amazing I feel like I need

42:36

to get into flow immediately now because this conversation

42:39

so for our listeners today who want to learn

42:41

more about Center and about the work you're doing

42:43

where can they go to learn from you so

42:47

you can visit us on

42:49

Center.app and download

42:51

our software will

42:53

be out of waitlist hopefully by then

42:56

and you can just download the software

42:58

if not you know find somebody

43:00

who's already using Center tweeted us and we're

43:03

happy to get you off that waitlist as

43:05

quickly as we can okay

43:07

excellent make sure we have the links for that in

43:09

the show notes page this week other than that this

43:11

has been great I really appreciate your time this was

43:13

all fun thanks to everyone super fun

43:15

to talk about this and

43:23

for that action step this week of course

43:25

go try out the centered app you

43:28

know there are many advantages to using

43:30

the right tech tools at the right

43:32

time and the centered app provides an

43:34

incredibly focused interface that can help you

43:36

get your work done faster and without

43:38

distractions for links to the centered app

43:40

as well as to other things that

43:42

all of us working on right now

43:44

go to Jeff sanders.com/three seven two and

43:47

that's all I've got for you this week

43:49

here on the 5am miracle podcast until next

43:51

time you have the power to change your

43:53

life and the fun begins bright and

43:55

early Hey,

44:04

it's Jeff Sanders and I'm here to

44:07

tell you about Greg McEwen and his

44:09

amazing show, The Greg McEwen Podcast, part

44:11

of the Yap Media Network. Want

44:14

to achieve more by doing less, all

44:16

while avoiding burnout? You can

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design a life that really matters

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with Greg McEwen, author of New

44:23

York Times bestsellers, effortless, and essentialism.

44:25

His mission is to help you advocate

44:28

and negotiate your way to remarkable results.

44:31

Every Tuesday, Greg discusses one key

44:33

topic he finds interesting and valuable

44:35

through the lens of the essentialist.

44:38

Every Thursday, he invites thought

44:40

leaders, entrepreneurs, celebrities, and people

44:42

like you for inspired weekly

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conversations focused on learning how to

44:46

do what matters first, and

44:49

do less, but better. His

44:51

content will stir your thoughts and

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spark inspiration and action. And

44:55

his British accents? Well, that's just a cherry

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on top. Subscribe to

44:59

The Greg McEwen Podcast today on

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Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite

45:04

podcast platform.