0:18

Welcome back to another episode of

0:20

the album years with myself, Stephen

0:22

Wilson and Tim Bowness. Tim's Alan.

0:25

Now Tim, I've got a bone to pick

0:27

with you straight away. Off air, you've just

0:30

admitted to me that in the early days

0:32

of the album years you used to edit

0:34

it to make it sound

0:36

like I was constantly interrupting you and

0:39

dominating the conversation. Well what it was, it

0:41

was actually the first couple of episodes where

0:43

you were constantly interrupting me. I was not!

0:45

And so I deliberately... I was not constantly...

0:49

I deliberately cut your voice in a

0:52

second or two earlier to make you sound

0:54

even ruder and what in fact was a

0:56

delight for me was when at least one

0:58

person did say, you know, Stephen just let

1:00

Tim speak a little bit, you're

1:02

really rude actually. So

1:04

I succeeded. Yeah but you also said you used

1:07

to cut out most of what you'd said to

1:09

make it sound like I was the only one

1:11

dominating the conversation. I did cut out very long

1:13

monologues yet so in fact it did sound like

1:15

you were the one with verbal diarrhea and I

1:17

was concise. Okay on a serious note guys, welcome

1:19

back. We promised last time didn't we Tim that

1:22

we would do a year from the current millennium

1:24

so... We did foolishly. Well we haven't

1:26

gone against our promise have we? We nearly did

1:28

in fact when I presented it to you I

1:30

think we had about three or four emails

1:32

where we were almost contemplating just hoping that no one had

1:35

heard it. Well I thought you were going to say that

1:37

we had three or four albums from the entire twenty-first century

1:39

between us. Well we had three or four albums from the

1:41

entire twenty-first century that we liked, that was it. That was

1:43

problem number one and

1:46

then obviously problem number two, you know, how do you

1:48

fill an episode with those three or four albums spaced

1:50

over 24 years? So

1:52

we've kind of, we've just about scraped in

1:54

haven't we? We're doing 2000 folks. Technically

1:58

is that part of the current millennium or

2:00

is that part of the previous? I'm never quite sure

2:02

the rules. I think technically they say isn't but for

2:05

our purposes it certainly is. That's the best you're gonna

2:07

get from us anyway guys. Now this

2:09

could be a short episode having said

2:11

that even then because I've got to say

2:14

to him I probably got about of

2:16

the albums on this on the list I've

2:18

probably got about 10% and

2:21

I've maybe heard at least until

2:23

I did the research for this episode because I have listened

2:25

to some of these albums subsequently but probably

2:27

until then I probably only heard about 20% of

2:30

the albums on this list. What about you? Well I

2:32

think for me I probably kept about 5% on

2:34

the list but I've probably owned or listened

2:37

to 40, 50, 60%. Really? Okay so you know a

2:39

lot of these

2:42

records at least you've heard a lot of

2:44

these records. Well yeah you know something that

2:46

you know we should discuss at some point

2:48

is there a cutoff point of where our

2:50

enthusiasm is for contemporary music but you know

2:52

for me looking at this list I'm

2:54

still really excited I think you know we're

2:57

entering the new century and there's

2:59

a lot of very fresh very

3:01

interesting music. I don't think the

3:03

album years are dead at this

3:05

stage. Okay I mean I

3:07

would agree with you I think there are

3:09

some tremendous records on this list but there's

3:12

also the beginnings of what I can

3:14

see is going to ultimately turn me away

3:16

from exploring and being

3:18

curious about a lot of contemporary music as

3:20

well and I'm sure we'll come on to

3:22

that. Yeah. Let's start off with

3:24

The Elephant in the Room the album that

3:26

kind of casts a shadow over the whole

3:28

year. This is the album that was almost

3:30

unanimously voted the best album of

3:32

the year by all the taste makers. It's

3:35

a band that emerged in the 90s and

3:37

have gone on to become arguably you

3:39

know the equivalent to what the progressive rock

3:41

bands of the 70s were. A band that

3:44

constantly reinvent themselves and

3:46

have managed to appeal I guess across a

3:48

very wide demographic and we're talking of course

3:50

about Radio Ahead here and

3:53

this was a watershed year for Radio Ahead because

3:55

this was the kind of moment that we

3:57

all realized when I say we all myself

4:00

and Tim, we kind

4:02

of realised that Radiohead were going to

4:04

be more than just quote-unquote the new

4:06

you two. Sure. They were going

4:09

to shake things up. Now it's interesting because

4:11

you've put this in the category of electronica,

4:15

but this album is much more than electronica, isn't

4:17

it? I mean it's got everything, it's got jazz,

4:20

it's got kraut rock, it's got

4:22

avant-garde classical music, it's got ambient

4:25

pieces. And there's still a lot

4:27

of guitars on it too, isn't there? It's not like they're

4:29

completely abandoned. No. They're sort of

4:31

guitar sound. But there is something

4:33

about it overall that feels like

4:36

a complete reinvention.

4:40

The fact they release no singles from the album.

4:43

The fact that it feels almost like

4:45

a complete rejection of everything

4:48

that Britpop had kind of stood for

4:50

over the previous, you know,

4:52

the hey-dev Britpop was probably the mid-90s

4:55

through to this point. And suddenly Radiohead had a

4:57

light saying, okay, that's over, you

4:59

know, and this is like a

5:02

moment where possibilities open up for guitar

5:05

bands, I guess, doesn't it? Well, I

5:07

think there's so many interesting things about

5:09

this album. One of them, for

5:12

me, is that I think that OK Computer, which

5:15

I do think is a great album, I thought was

5:17

overrated in the sense that a lot of people said

5:20

this is the first rock album of the 21st century.

5:22

And for me, I heard a lot

5:24

of experimental 80s guitar music in

5:26

OK Computer. I mean, I loved the bends.

5:29

And I felt OK Computer was,

5:31

you know, a relatively logical, relatively

5:33

safe follow-up. And

5:35

suddenly on this album, Kid A, and then I'm

5:38

an easy act that follows it, they

5:40

genuinely are a rock band for the 21st century.

5:43

It's almost like Kid A is what people

5:45

said OK Computer was for me. So I

5:48

like OK Computer, think it's a great album,

5:50

love some of the music. But it was

5:52

never to me that revolutionary statement, as I

5:54

could hear anything from Crimson

5:56

to U2 to Cocteau Twins

5:58

to Dylan to John Lennon, there

6:00

were all sorts of 20th century

6:02

reference points in the album. Yeah.

6:04

And also, OK Computer is still

6:06

kind of allied to the idea

6:08

of the conventional pop song

6:11

structure, isn't it? And suddenly on Kid

6:13

A, we don't care about

6:15

structure. We don't care about those pop song structures

6:17

anymore. And the U2 thing you're saying is interesting

6:19

because I think U2 obviously tried this trick in

6:22

the sense that, you know, in the early 90s,

6:25

they decided to completely reject what

6:27

people perceived as their pompous, anthemic

6:29

rock music. But when you

6:31

listen to that, you know, when you listen to Acton

6:33

Baby, which is a really strong album, I think,

6:35

it's a bit like U2 with a

6:38

Frankenstein mask on. You know, actually, the

6:40

body of it hasn't changed very much.

6:42

Whereas you listen to Kid

6:44

A, and they really have

6:46

shifted shape. You know, U2

6:48

were always U2 on pop,

6:50

on Acton Baby. It was

6:52

the unforgettable fire band ever

6:55

so slightly transformed, as I said, almost with

6:57

a mask on. Whereas with Kid A, this

6:59

is absolutely revolutionizing the idea of what a

7:02

rock band can be in the 21st century.

7:04

And you feel that when they're entering

7:07

electronic or ambient, these are 100

7:10

percent immersion into it. And

7:12

isn't that the magic trick that Radiohead have

7:14

managed to pull off? And now, you know,

7:18

Tom and Johnny are working as a smile, essentially,

7:20

an extension. It feels like an extension of Radiohead

7:22

to me. Isn't that the magic

7:24

trick that they've pulled off, really, which is to be

7:26

able to make

7:28

this what

7:30

is ultimately very experimental music, but almost

7:33

like in a kind of Trojan horse

7:35

way, sneak it under the noses of

7:37

people that don't listen to

7:39

experimental electronic music or experimental classical music. You know,

7:41

I've just been listening to the new Smile Lab,

7:43

which I really love. But there's some, I mean,

7:46

it's funny, it's funny thing with Tom and Johnny,

7:48

I always feel like, oh, I can hear what

7:50

they've been listening to. You know what I mean?

7:53

But that's not to say that they're kind of

7:55

like, they're not

7:58

pastiche-ing that music. They definitely make it

8:01

their own and they definitely filter

8:03

it through their own personality But I

8:05

feel like I can always hear all they've been listening to this. They've been

8:07

listening to Pender xk or they've been

8:09

listening to or tekker or whether they've got a walker

8:11

It's like a walker. Yeah, I'll them the Scott Walker

8:13

chords it running through how to disappear I'm not quite

8:15

sure but there's it's it's been a while since I

8:17

listened to it to be fair It's one of the

8:19

arms I didn't go back and listen to again for

8:21

this because I felt like I knew it well enough

8:23

already But but there's definitely a

8:26

sense that you can kind of hear Magpie

8:28

like what they've kind of been borrowing from

8:30

there's the one track which is

8:32

very crowd rock influenced very obviously

8:34

crowd rock influence But it

8:37

doesn't sound like can or Faust or no

8:39

it sounds like Radiohead But you can hear

8:41

are you they've been listening to that and

8:43

I think that isn't Just

8:45

coming back to my original point isn't that in a sense

8:47

the magic trick that they've managed to pull off because they've

8:49

been A band coming off the back of Okay

8:52

computer which sold whatever 10 million copies or

8:55

whatever They've been able a

8:57

bit like the Beatles were with with revolution

8:59

9 on the white album and introducing music

9:01

Concrete to people that never knew they liked

9:03

or were interested in your concrete Radiohead have

9:06

done a similar thing with very esoteric Electronic

9:09

music avant-garde classical music

9:11

avant-garde jazz music But

9:13

somehow they always make it have this

9:15

kind of luminous strange beauty don't they

9:17

whatever they take these sort of so-called

9:19

ugly? Sounds on dis

9:21

atonal sounds they somehow make them sound

9:24

beautiful national anthem has that free jazz

9:26

Yes explosion, you know it's a groove

9:28

then the free jazz and you're

9:30

right They're taking avant-garde ideas into the mainstream and it's

9:33

one of those things that you know It's one of

9:35

the few things that I'm kind of really envious of

9:37

that You know, there's no compromise on this and

9:40

yet it was number one globally, you know Where

9:42

is actually so I say, you know go back

9:44

to one of our previous editions? 1977

9:47

and we were talking about rumors and when

9:49

Tusk came out which was vaguely experimental compared

9:51

to this Fleetwood Mac suffered Yeah,

9:54

they suffered sales wise Pink Floyd suffered

9:56

on the final cut from the wall

9:59

Kid a Takes the experimental template

10:01

even further and it pays dividends. They're number

10:03

one globally. They managed to get away Well

10:05

to be fair the final cut and tusks

10:07

were also number one albums I think you're

10:09

talking more about the critical not through the

10:11

critical reaction, but the public's region now to

10:13

be fair I'm looking at the Wikipedia page

10:15

for Kid A At

10:17

the time allegedly apparently according to this it

10:19

had very mixed reviews and a very mixed

10:21

response But I think it's

10:24

stature because it was a shock. It was

10:26

a shock I remember speaking to a very

10:28

good friend of mine who'd been massively massively

10:30

into okay computer and what's the point of obsession? Mmm,

10:33

and I said to him all if you bought kid a says yes, I've

10:35

got a b-side Mmm, and

10:38

there had been a sense that the radio had

10:40

had been hinting at what they were going to

10:42

do on kid I on the b-side for okay

10:44

computer. Don't know if you're familiar with some of

10:46

those big sites Yeah, yeah, and

10:48

they're great and suddenly kiddo is a whole

10:50

album of these quotes unquote b-size and and

10:52

he didn't get it at all But I

10:55

think its stature has grown and grown because

10:57

it's now seen as I mean you kind of

10:59

alluded to this in a way You know

11:01

in your in your kind of intro about the album It's

11:04

seen as the first Album

11:06

that indicates where rock music can go

11:08

in the 21st century and part of

11:11

me slightly disappointed that it hasn't been

11:13

more of an

11:15

influence on Rock music

11:17

21st century. Well, I think is what I think one

11:19

of the reasons how it worked is that amnesiac Reinforced

11:22

it came relatively quickly afterwards arguably

11:25

was a slightly better album. Yeah, I

11:27

was gonna say personally I prefer it

11:29

and I think it reinforced all of

11:31

the positive elements of kid a and

11:33

of course soldiers as well So, you

11:35

know, it wasn't a one-off. This was

11:37

a serious change Remember,

11:40

you know late 90s as you

11:42

say not only fans but bands were

11:44

kind of obsessed with okay computer I remember

11:46

having to be a part of a kind of a

11:49

battle the bands a judge in Norwich All

11:51

of the new bands were sounding like they'd come

11:53

out the bends or they come out of a

11:55

computer just at the point when radiohead Absolutely

11:58

shifted gear and became something And

12:00

of course what we're going to see and maybe talk

12:02

about later is a few of the bands who really

12:04

do make a mark on 2000 Coldplay. They've

12:08

listened to the Radiohead, Muse

12:11

who are about to become massive. Obviously

12:14

another sort of Radiohead derivative,

12:16

but Radiohead themselves aren't

12:18

listening to Radiohead, they're just

12:20

steaming. So maybe let's

12:23

jump a little bit ahead

12:25

to that because I've got a category here called

12:27

the Britpop Fallout and in

12:30

this category I have put some

12:32

of the albums that

12:34

you could argue were closer to the

12:37

sort of OK Computer Bends blueprint.

12:39

So you mentioned Coldplay there, now Parachute,

12:41

which I think is a brilliant record,

12:43

one of the great debut records, but

12:45

there's almost a sense isn't there that

12:47

this was the album for the disenchanted

12:50

Radiohead. Exactly that. Well it is

12:52

the most accessible elements of

12:54

the Bends and OK Computer

12:56

with a very very pretty production

12:59

sheen and I think Chris Martin

13:01

has probably got a more accessible

13:03

voice as well than Tom. Yes.

13:06

But they're great songs, the point is it's beautifully produced,

13:08

they're great songs and

13:11

there's a real real confidence about that

13:13

album as well for a debut. But

13:15

it probably wouldn't have got signed if

13:18

it hadn't been for the success of

13:20

Radiohead and so in this

13:22

category Britpop Fallout I've also got

13:24

Oasis released an album. The

13:28

kind of spell of Oasis has kind of worn

13:30

off hasn't it by this point. I think it's

13:32

fair to say the previous record B here now

13:34

had damaged their critical and commercial

13:37

standing probably to the point of never

13:40

being able to come back from it really. Standing

13:42

on the shoulder of giants, I mean I bought the first

13:44

couple of Oasis records and I quite enjoyed them, I know

13:46

you weren't such a fan. Great

13:49

melodisist Noel Gallagher, great traditional songwriter, I'd

13:51

stop listening by this point. I

13:54

never heard this record, I still haven't heard

13:56

this record. I have. OK you have. Go

13:59

on then. the podcast. Weirdly enough I don't mind

14:01

it. I'm sure. I mean once more Oasis were never

14:06

ever going to be my favorite band but I think

14:08

they did what they did with

14:11

real skill and detail. There were

14:13

some great songs, great melodies and

14:16

they're both strong vocalists actually. This

14:18

is something that I feel is missing

14:20

from say doves that we're

14:22

going to discuss and

14:25

Stone Roses. The thing is that

14:27

Oasis had a great front

14:29

person with a really strong quality of

14:31

voice. So they're never necessarily going to be

14:33

my favorite band. I've always got

14:35

respect for them and this album actually I

14:37

kind of like because it's them slightly going

14:39

off the rails. There's a lot of Beatles,

14:42

psychedelia in it. There's maybe even a lot

14:44

of OK Computer kind of psychedelic rock

14:46

work out. So that's kind of what I was getting

14:48

at here. I think again

14:50

you kind of mentioned this in a way that

14:52

a lot of bands were listening to Radiohead except

14:54

Radiohead had already moved on and

14:56

Radiohead in a sense were redefining what

14:58

rock music would be two, three,

15:01

four years later while bands like

15:03

Oasis had just discovered OK Computer

15:05

and Parachute's Coldplay definitely seems

15:07

like something born out of

15:10

that kind of approach. Let's

15:13

talk about the doves albums, Lost Souls. I didn't know

15:15

this record. I listened to it. I thought it was

15:17

really good. I've got to say the

15:20

worst thing I can say about it and

15:22

this is again what you just alluded to

15:24

a minute ago is the vocals are a

15:27

little bit nondescript and

15:29

perhaps that was the reason why because they

15:31

didn't have a Chris Martin or a Liam

15:33

Gallagher. That's why it's not a better known

15:35

record. But it seems like

15:37

a very, very creative extension

15:41

of again the sort

15:43

of post-radiohead climate. It's definitely

15:45

got that kind of stadium

15:47

filling rock sound to it. But there's

15:49

some very interesting things going on in

15:52

the production. There are clever things going

15:54

on in the production, sonically clever things.

15:56

There are clever things going on in

15:58

the time signatures. It

16:01

seems like it's also harking back a little

16:03

bit to post-punk in a way. Yeah. And

16:06

I was quite impressed, although I can see

16:08

that for you the vocals would probably be

16:11

the problem. I think they're good. I've always

16:13

quite liked those. I think there is this

16:15

kind of atmospheric goth quality

16:17

and there's almost a kind of progressive ambition in

16:19

the music. And I think they come from a

16:22

dance music background. They come from a sort

16:24

of Manchester dance music background and then became

16:26

a rock band. So it's an interesting birth.

16:29

Oh, OK. So, yeah, musically,

16:31

I like them quite a lot. And

16:33

I don't dislike it vocally. I think

16:35

vocally it's absolutely fine. Right. But

16:37

it's not one of those voices that I'm going

16:39

to fall in love with or hate. Yeah. So

16:42

that's the thing. Neutral. There's

16:44

some great melodies and some great guitar plays. I think Sea Song

16:46

is one of the pieces on this, isn't it? Yes, I love

16:48

that one. Which I think is really powerful in the piece of

16:50

music, isn't it? Yeah. So there's some

16:52

music on this side I think is tremendously strong.

16:54

I suppose it's that thing where for me, there

16:57

was sort of 70, 80

16:59

percent there and it doesn't quite

17:01

burn with the ferocity of a My Bloody

17:04

Valentine or what have you when you maybe

17:06

wanted to. But it's really good. I mean,

17:08

it's yeah, I was impressed. I mean, as

17:10

someone myself, that has a very mere sort

17:12

of neutral voice. You know, I

17:14

understand the issues sometimes. Not everyone can be

17:16

Jeff Buckley or Chris Martin or Tom York

17:18

or whatever. We have to you know, we

17:20

have to deal with what we're given by Mother Nature and all that

17:23

stuff. I was I was impressed

17:25

by this record. It's something I missed at the

17:27

time. I can see why it's

17:29

regarded as a little bit of a sort of a lost classic

17:32

of the period. Well, you like what follows as

17:34

well, I think. There's a couple more albums that

17:37

kind of develop this even further.

17:39

And I think we were talking about the

17:41

time signature and even progressive reference. Weirdly, I

17:43

think it's the next album. They

17:45

do a kind of a cover of King

17:47

Crimson's Moonchild. So also in the Brit Pop

17:49

fallout, I've got Placebo's Black Market Music and

17:51

Black Box record The Facts of Life, which

17:54

has just been given a new lease of

17:56

life by Billy. I know

17:58

less than Billy Eilish. Oh, really? who

18:00

apparently did an Instagram clip where

18:02

she was listening to...

18:05

Is it the title track, the one that goes,

18:07

that life sucks, get over it, kill yourself and

18:09

get over it? Is that a fact? I don't

18:11

know, to be honest. Apparently it went from like

18:13

one million streams on Spotify to something like 20

18:15

billion overnight or something because Billie Eilish had been...

18:17

Have you formed a contact for her? I

18:20

don't know, no. Anyway,

18:24

but let's go back to... So

18:26

Radiohead normally you kind of put

18:28

in the electronic section. Yeah,

18:30

so I think listening to it again,

18:33

I do think it's a massive

18:35

reinvention, but there are tracks like

18:37

Optimism where actually they are still,

18:39

in effect, a U2 template rock

18:41

band, a rock band with

18:44

interesting textures and that tribal rhythm. So

18:46

there were maybe more echoes of

18:49

what Radiohead were before than I

18:51

remember. Yeah, I think that's the thing,

18:53

because a lot of people talk about this as the

18:56

moment Radiohead go electronic. I

18:58

think what they mean by that is this

19:00

is the moment Radiohead start to display

19:02

their influences from listening to electronic music.

19:04

So I can hear they've listened to

19:07

Orteca and I can hear they've listened

19:09

to Boards of Canada or whatever, but

19:11

actually they've absorbed it into their

19:13

vocabulary as a rock band.

19:16

And now, like King of Limbs, for example, 10

19:18

years later, it's much more electronic than this

19:20

record. This record seems more transitional than perhaps

19:23

it did at the time. I think it

19:25

was such a shock to

19:27

hear it at the time based on what had

19:29

gone before. And given they're a great band, it's

19:31

like it's got a great rhythm section. That rhythm

19:33

section may only play on about half of it.

19:36

So I think it is different in that

19:39

sense. Every other album they've done previously, they

19:41

are a band almost. Even those B-sides

19:43

you're talking about from OK Computer, it's

19:45

a band filtered through effects units and

19:48

sounding quite alien. It's still a band.

19:50

This time round, they were pure electronica

19:52

pieces. They certainly were. The title track

19:54

for one. Yeah. Yeah. So let's

19:56

go back to the electronics section and just talk a little bit

19:58

more about some of the other... music from

20:01

this year. Now Blue Jam by

20:03

Chris Morris, another one that's sort

20:05

of only nominally electronic quote-unquote. This

20:07

is a, Chris

20:09

Morris is a comedian, a

20:11

very very satirical comedian

20:14

whose influence on British comedy is

20:17

widely felt I think as

20:21

a kind of very satirical sort of guy. And

20:24

this, I almost described this, this is an

20:26

album of some of the

20:28

sketches from his show Blue Jam where

20:32

the music is a very important

20:34

part of the

20:37

sort of effect isn't it? It kind

20:39

of all adds to this slightly surreal

20:41

absurdist quality that the comedy

20:43

has and I kind of call this ambient

20:45

comedy because this is

20:48

very queasy electronic ambient

20:50

music very often which he's taking

20:52

from the war parties. Yeah. So

20:55

he's using tracks from A-Fex, Twin Selected Ambient

20:58

Works 2 for example to kind of add

21:00

to this sense of unease you

21:02

feel when you're listening to these sketches

21:05

which are, I mean I

21:07

say they're comedy but I mean they're

21:09

the blackest comedy you could possibly imagine.

21:12

But would it be fair to say that

21:14

he's doing something very new here in the

21:17

way that he's using music?

21:20

It's difficult to say I mean it

21:22

sustains a really kind of woozy and

21:24

as you said queasy atmosphere and I

21:27

kind of almost find it and

21:29

not in a bad way. It's

21:31

almost sleep-inducing because you're lost in

21:33

that world of sound and it's

21:35

only when you start to concentrate

21:37

on the language that you realise

21:39

how strange and how uncomfortable

21:42

it can make you feel on occasion

21:44

really. And I think you know the

21:46

music does a good job of that.

21:48

Yeah it's a fantastically curated ambient collection

21:50

in that it suits

21:53

the narrative so well and

21:56

as you said on one level it's kind of quite seductive,

21:58

quite woozy, kind of

22:00

sleep-inducing, but on another level, it

22:03

kind of almost makes you want to vomit. I

22:05

mean, it's extremely confrontational comedy, and

22:07

some of it you would barely

22:09

say is comedy at all. It's

22:11

just absurd. And it's

22:14

almost like, in some ways

22:16

it's a very British thing because it's

22:18

all about dismantling this idea of social

22:20

graces and political correctness. And I think

22:22

he was one of the first comedian

22:25

or comic writers. I mean, to be fair,

22:27

Chris Morris himself doesn't appear in a lot

22:29

of Blue Jam.

22:31

It's other people like

22:34

Julia Davis and Mark

22:36

Heap. And he's

22:38

one of the first comic writers that almost

22:40

does that thing where you

22:42

can't say that. You can't say

22:45

that, but he does. He

22:47

goes ahead and you kind of laugh despite yourself.

22:49

Well, he followed Brasi, wasn't he? It's his first

22:51

project after Brasi. I think he might have been,

22:53

yeah. But then there was the day to day

22:55

before that, which was the kind of satirical news

22:57

show. And he says things

22:59

that you laugh at and you find yourself thinking

23:01

to yourself, I shouldn't be laughing at that. Which

23:04

is why I think he's been so influential on

23:06

a generation of comedians since, like Ricky Gervais, or

23:09

like Jimmy Carr, that

23:12

say these things that you find yourself laughing

23:14

at and then realize they're

23:16

so unpolitically correct. But

23:19

I think, to be fair, to

23:21

no disrespect to Chris Morris and Ricky Gervais, I think

23:23

Chris Morris did it on another level of

23:26

smartness and intellect. I mean, he

23:29

is really dismantling

23:32

polite society through a lot of... But you're

23:34

right. I think there's something about the comedy

23:36

that is a

23:38

very musical experience, the

23:41

way he's using sound, sound design, music

23:45

to put you

23:47

in this kind of surreal, absurdist

23:50

frame of mind where you can

23:52

connect with things that are, on

23:56

the page, barely comedy at all.

23:59

They're actually really offensive. Well

24:01

I think he wanted it on I think

24:03

originally 3am or 4am because

24:05

he wanted people to listen to it. He was

24:08

drunk in a particular state. Yeah, either drunk

24:10

or drunk with sleep in some way so it

24:12

is even more surreal but and eventually I

24:14

think they played them at midnight that

24:16

was the compromise that they came to. Yeah. But

24:18

yeah you know I think he was conscious of

24:20

how he wanted people to

24:23

absorb this as well which I quite like he's

24:25

curating the music, curating the

24:27

text and then also he wants to

24:30

curate how we respond to it. But

24:32

he's also, we're getting into this dismantling

24:34

the whole idea of comedy here now

24:37

but it's also brilliant is that

24:39

this kind of mixture of highbrow and lowbrow

24:41

is somebody isn't it? So you do get

24:43

this sketch where the man walks into a

24:45

doctor's surgery and it feels very uncomfortable and

24:47

very absurdist and then they end up basically

24:50

having a competition to see who can make

24:52

their willy flap the highest. So

24:54

it goes from being very highbrow and

24:56

very intellectual to being you know smutty

24:58

and lowbrow but all the way through

25:01

there's this very uncomfortable electronic,

25:03

queasy electronic music. Well it's just

25:05

confrontational as Derek and Clive but

25:07

where Derek and Clive he slaps

25:10

you in the face straight away. Yeah. This is

25:12

kind of almost like stealth bombing. You're not sure

25:15

how to feel about it are you? Yeah. You're

25:17

not sure how to and I think that's the

25:19

thing about that sort of brand

25:21

of comedy you're not sure whether

25:23

you should be laughing, crying or just with

25:25

your jaw on the floor. I mean

25:28

the one sketch I can never forget with

25:30

from Blue Jam is the parents that

25:32

have their child has been kidnapped and

25:35

and they're like just oh by the

25:37

way love did you did you pick up Jimmy from the school

25:39

today? No. Has

25:42

he not come home then? No. Little

25:44

bugger. And it goes on like

25:46

this and then for days afterwards and then finally

25:48

they find him murdered in a wood. Oh

25:51

by the way love I had a phone call

25:53

about little Jimmy. Yeah they found him murdered in

25:55

the wood. Yeah apparently it was our neighbour the

25:57

fucker. I'm gonna go and have a work

25:59

with you. him later. Didn't he also do

26:01

the TV version of this as a

26:03

one? Yes, well so that was just

26:05

called Jam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which

26:08

was equally unnerving. Well even

26:10

more so in that sense, yeah.

26:12

Yeah. And again I think

26:14

the visuals in that went with this

26:16

score, if you remember. Yeah,

26:19

I love it. Chris Morris is a modern comedy

26:22

genius I think anyway. So we've kind

26:24

of digressed slightly there to talking about

26:26

comedy but it's very hard to talk about this record.

26:28

You have to kind of hear it to understand what

26:30

we're talking about. Well it's important to think as well

26:32

sometimes comedy kind of intersects with music. You know you

26:34

think of say Monty Python

26:36

were very popular with underground artists. Yeah.

26:39

In the 60s, 70s and it went

26:41

both ways. You know they love Python.

26:43

Python loved that music and

26:46

you could see it as well I

26:48

think when Bideal and Newman were really

26:50

entwined with the whole Britpop culture as

26:52

well. Stuart Lee. And Lee and Harry.

26:54

Yeah. Stuart Lee's an interesting musician. And

26:56

I think that this was really as

26:58

important to UK Electronica

27:01

as the A-Fex twin in its own way.

27:03

Yeah. Well it's funny because there's a lot

27:05

of there's a lot of A-Fex

27:07

twin in Chris Morris I found the whole

27:09

thing. The you know the whole

27:12

idea of deconstructing the idea of having a

27:14

public face to music. The way that A-Fex

27:16

twin would always make his covers look as

27:18

ugly as possible. You know a portrait of

27:21

him but as ugly as can be.

27:23

Yeah. And there's a sense of that

27:25

going on in Chris Morris's work too. Let's move on.

27:27

A few other references. Now Tim I've got used to

27:29

this when I talk about electronic music I'm really passionate

27:31

about the 90s particularly which for

27:33

me is the golden age of

27:36

modern electronic bands like with A-Fex

27:38

we've talked about. This is

27:40

one of my favorites from the 90s and I get used to

27:42

saying to you oh you gotta listen to this Tim it's one

27:44

of my favorite electronic bands from the 90s. You go I listened

27:46

to it it was all right. So

27:48

this is another one. Gas Wolfgang Voit released

27:50

his album Pop. It's four thousand this year.

27:53

This is one of the most special electronic

27:55

acts of all time for me. You listen to it Tim what

27:57

did you think about it? Oh

27:59

Come on. My mom

28:01

was born muslims on and Mr Lot

28:04

to me zero is quite procedure for

28:06

liked him. Nor do I

28:08

listened to the album in his

28:10

entire season. Genuinely enjoyed it. Lovely

28:12

amorphous textures, quite sweet. half manatees

28:15

with the loop. So his whole

28:17

thing wolfgang voice thing with guess

28:19

is he. he takes leaps from

28:21

classical records I guess and he

28:23

by sleep makes a rust's them.

28:26

Makes them sell at the been left out

28:28

in the rain for about ten years. Okay

28:30

so that you know we supposed to for

28:32

the kind of horns. Logical thing about how

28:34

ya sound like a beaming in and the

28:37

big that the sound old they sound the

28:39

great sounded like it's recording a source exactly

28:41

that's his thanks for all of the I

28:43

will call So is this close up in

28:45

every can a micro images of or can

28:47

lead sense and and bushes and sing so

28:49

yes you have see rice it's it's it's

28:51

a wonderful atmosphere is a one gag. So

28:54

one guy act. All. His record Salah

28:56

that but it's a gag I could listen

28:58

to. Forever is to Sunlight Sets About the

29:00

last. Well that's more than I spotted is

29:02

it's own success. But what about? Boards of

29:04

Canada is in a beautiful of we talked

29:06

about Boards of Canada are very briefly money

29:08

to a hurry. The

29:11

I like a busy sworn

29:13

I liked the first in

29:15

the third piece quite a

29:17

long and we'd I. Also

29:19

I'm genuinely light as who

29:21

has very beautiful very him

29:23

north sick again gorgeous text.

29:25

Is I think a bit like the

29:27

Guess album was quite like is quite

29:29

distressed. Textures was as he old See

29:31

Me yeah I'm the be seems we

29:34

the old fashioned to me that seem

29:36

like the so things that you and

29:38

I were doing in the late eighties

29:40

actually didn't mind it but the but

29:42

the text is a loved on. I

29:44

really liked See and Use as a

29:46

voice from the religious commune. The whole

29:48

title of the p comes from the

29:50

Waco community doesn't decide to year of

29:52

and of course like you I've always

29:54

had a fascination for religious. cult so

29:56

anything see with white towel scientology on and

29:58

bull So I liked it and that's also

30:00

the thing with boards of Canada whenever they

30:02

do use voices It's in this very kind

30:05

of impressionistic, you know, haunted way So like

30:07

the title track as you say the voice

30:10

The but when you actually hear that the main vocal

30:12

line is spoken through a vocoder. So this is kind

30:14

of sense of distance But

30:16

it's very beautiful very affecting very

30:18

emotional You're right. The rhythms

30:20

are nothing. There's certainly not in the sort of League of

30:23

square push or a text twin or Naka They

30:25

don't have anywhere near that degree of complexity, which

30:27

I think actually is why boards of Canada became

30:30

much more successful They were very

30:32

excited that certainly their first couple of records

30:34

kind of crossed over I think yeah quite

30:36

a broad audience and sold probably better than

30:39

warp records. Usually you're not gonna choke your

30:41

chicken out I didn't know I'll see with

30:43

this. They're very pretty they're very beautiful superficially

30:45

But the more you go in there is

30:47

this sense of unease there is this sense

30:49

of something a little bit more uncomfortable Below

30:53

the surface. Well, there's also there's a great sense what

30:55

I thought about it with you know It's my thing

30:57

that when I listen to music like this, which I

30:59

really genuinely liked I'm hearing

31:01

vocal melodies. I'm hearing Lyrics

31:05

immediately evokes something in me

31:09

Right, which is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Now

31:12

the folks listening at home won't realize this but

31:14

just then just then we took a break Tim

31:16

didn't we we did It's been edited out now,

31:18

but we took a break then and just while

31:20

we took the break there Rob scary

31:23

Who's sitting there listening? Said

31:25

he listened to the gas and he really liked it

31:27

sounds like there's a rave going on in the distance

31:29

And I think that's a really good way to describe

31:31

gas So I'm gonna appropriate that

31:34

whenever anyone anyone asked me about gas I'm gonna sounds like

31:36

there's a rave going on on the other side of a

31:38

forest because that's kind of what you're gonna say My

31:40

forest comment and his rave comment and credit them both

31:42

to you. That's what I've been doing my whole career

31:44

Okay, so the whole career not gonna stop now One

31:48

more I'm to talk about in the electronica section

31:50

broadcast the noise made by people the debut out

31:52

by broadcast now broadcast an interesting Band

31:55

because they were kind of in love with

31:57

like things like the BBC radiophonic workshop. Yeah,

31:59

and Library music and there's been a

32:01

whole I don't know what's

32:03

explosion of that, but there has been a little

32:05

genre that's kind of grown up around that labels

32:08

like Ghostbox Stereolabor always

32:10

into that too Well,

32:13

how do you feel about that kind of approach to miss it? Yeah,

32:16

I like it. I mean I again this album.

32:18

I thought was in it It's a very sweet

32:21

album, but what it kind of reminded me of as

32:23

much something else It's you know a lot of people

32:25

at the time were kind of comparing it to things

32:27

like Portis said bizarrely But I sort of

32:29

hear it as being more Jane

32:31

and Barton More faint

32:33

at the end. It's got that kind of early

32:36

80s quality. It's why I say Jane and Barton You're that kind

32:38

of very naive Yeah,

32:40

it's deliberately this is this sounds like a no

32:43

marble giant this sounds like a negative word But

32:45

I don't mean it to be but it's got

32:47

that deliberate sense of tweeness about yeah And

32:50

I think it comes from this sort of the girly

32:52

voice doesn't it Stereolab have this too Yeah,

32:54

it's not like a very soulful

32:56

assured voice like Beth Gibbons or

32:58

no or Tracy Thorne singing with massive

33:01

attack It's a very kind

33:03

of like Understated

33:05

underachieving voice in a sense. It's got

33:07

that kind of sweet schoolgirl quality. Yeah,

33:10

yeah I'm not

33:12

sure how I feel about it's always kind of what put

33:14

me off a little bit of the actually talked about some

33:16

Etienne's and things like that. I think I preferred a voice

33:18

that we're trying to do a little bit more than that

33:21

But it's I definitely like it musically it's

33:23

fascinating You can hear the references back to

33:25

things like the BBC radiophonic workshop and library

33:28

music and stuff like that Which I'm also,

33:30

you know very interested. Well, I think you

33:32

know, what's interesting about it I guess is

33:34

it's got that kind of as you say

33:36

that kind of BBC 50s test card quality

33:39

that kind of almost schoolgirl

33:42

English voice from the 1960s.

33:45

It's very pure, you know, early Marianne faithfully.

33:47

but it's not quite as sung as early

33:49

man Faithful, But other things Jane and Bart

33:51

and it reminds me of Specifically in a

33:53

sense, then, are they they? Perhaps they're also

33:55

signifiers of the fact we're at the beginning

33:57

of the great era of YouTube in the

33:59

sense. Very easy Now to start

34:01

looking back, but he's also lucky. Focus

34:03

some of the electronics why contempt and

34:06

do bisset the idea is the one

34:08

you so what kind of thing is

34:10

there's a kind of source retro seats

34:12

reasons? Well that's what a me but

34:14

it's the beginning of the in a

34:16

sense of the past is now policy

34:18

so easily available. Yeah, the prep spain's

34:20

on Assuming they're in their early twenties

34:22

at the times, Bands from ten twenty

34:24

years before would have just not been

34:26

aware. assessed Us Miller the how would

34:28

you have heard. Olds Library

34:31

records from the seventies Or Bbc Radio

34:33

Four apartment what are you know? what

34:35

episode of Doctor Who are some things

34:37

you wouldn't have been exposed to? That

34:40

And yet now in Twenty Twenty Four,

34:42

now we're talking. There are whole generations

34:44

of. Musicians and bands that

34:47

all that stuff is easily available

34:49

to answer Yuichi but the the

34:51

whole history of music is so

34:53

easy available that I think nostalgia

34:55

on the past has become perhaps

34:58

too much and elements of. Of.

35:00

The music that is around that is

35:02

available to certainly in in. We talked

35:04

about before how rock music. As

35:07

not reinvented itself as successfully, perhaps as

35:09

electronic an urban music is meant to

35:12

reinvent itself and pasa I think is

35:14

the obsession with the past to fight

35:16

this. The. Led Zeppelin back

35:18

catalogue is easily available that the at the

35:20

Black Sabbath. The entire catalogue of all these

35:23

bands can be listened to and absorbed in

35:25

the space of a couple of hours. Was

35:27

you and I spend years saving our pocket

35:30

pocket money. They're going to the record stores

35:32

and gradually collecting the Rush back catalogue. Morse

35:34

collecting the Black Sabbath back as local, The

35:36

Order you know, whatever the new young, but

35:39

as of now, it's all instantly available isn't

35:41

And and does that kind of mean that

35:43

music becomes necessarily more. Regressive

35:46

and retrospective and more

35:48

a nostalgic. I

35:50

think in some genres. Yeah, And

35:54

all that bombshell. Will

35:56

Move On Spaniel? Yeah. like I think it's a

35:58

good as a protest album. Is

36:01

good and you can see along with

36:03

Stereo Lab how they influenced a certain

36:05

kind of ascetic visually as well as

36:07

musically. Yeah, absolutely. Let let's move on

36:10

to the category mainstream we've We've already

36:12

talked about this records a little bit

36:14

the beginning when we were talking about

36:17

radio due to all that you can't

36:19

leave behind. This is a band, as

36:21

we said earlier, almost doing the opposite

36:24

of what radio had a doing. Yeah,

36:26

they're saying what do people like about

36:28

us when we were doing the Joshua.

36:30

Tree and we were doing. You.

36:32

Know. Boy ends, Warren's the

36:34

Unforgettable Far less. Do that again because

36:37

we kind of done this experiment with

36:39

you know what with a priest terms

36:41

pop and Zero Paw and ads and

36:43

Baby and Achtung Baby And was there

36:45

another record? Maybe that's it. Yeah, I'm

36:48

asking us a low doses of rinse.

36:50

Three Wreckage was cut We we can

36:52

have done. We've done our experimental thing.

36:54

Maybe we shouldn't do that anymore. Maybe

36:56

she go back into old people ice

36:58

which is. Strangely.

37:01

A point. The. Radio had a

37:03

going to complete opposite direction in a

37:06

says radio had a doing what you

37:08

two days yeah that arguably more successfully

37:10

they kind of doing what you to

37:12

did when they might zero. Pro: nice

37:14

I think they are so degree definitely

37:17

although I think with he sees it

37:19

may be a D is twofold. Really

37:21

number one. They always listened to sense

37:23

into the time surveyed have been really

37:25

aware of the bends and ok computer

37:27

and possibly as a said as he

37:30

wants to be radio head of the

37:32

point Radio. Had become something different you

37:34

know you to On no exception

37:36

to this. and I think number

37:38

two. It's so sad with their

37:40

irony. Sites when they first became

37:42

ironic should be so nuts and

37:44

baby, it was the right move

37:46

at the right time. and it

37:48

was brilliant source him and I

37:50

think they carry that through. On

37:52

says the right Poetic Onion is

37:54

arguably more ambitious in some way.

37:56

Sites and baby and pulp. and

37:58

wow. Zoo Rope. wants more, sort

38:00

of reinforced. I think the following

38:03

is what we're saying about with tusk after rumours.

38:05

The sales were getting lower and lower. The stage

38:07

sets might have been getting more ambitious, but

38:10

by the time of pop people were actually

38:12

slightly bored by their irony. And

38:14

I think there was also a reaction to that. Was

38:17

there also a sense that people didn't

38:20

trust their

38:22

motives for adopting

38:24

electronic music and trying to be

38:27

more hip and more urban? I've

38:30

always slightly distrusted that. I mean, I like U2, don't get

38:32

me wrong, I like them a lot. But

38:36

I think when I hear Tom or Johnny Greenwood

38:38

adopting Krought Rock or

38:41

Electronica, I completely believe

38:43

it's because they genuinely love it. And

38:46

I think with Bono and folks, I always

38:48

felt slightly like it was a careerist, more

38:50

of a careerist move. And I might be

38:53

unfair there. I'm sure they were genuinely excited

38:55

by the possibilities of music. Well, there's a

38:57

difference, isn't there? Because I think that with

39:00

Radiohead that there's a continuum, although they're very,

39:02

very different records. Amnesiac and Okeh Computer have

39:04

the same level of seriousness. So if you're

39:06

looking at the artwork and you're looking at

39:09

the lyrics and you're looking at Tom York's

39:11

delivery, actually, he's

39:13

not shifted probably from the first great

39:16

Radiohead piece to Amnesiac. Everything around it

39:18

shifted. Whereas you think of U2, whereas

39:22

they were this very earnest and semic

39:24

band, by the time you're getting to

39:26

acting babies, Europa, pop, they're trying comedy.

39:28

They're trying Elvis Vegas. Oh, okay. Do

39:30

you know me in the present? They're

39:32

very well aware in the presentation and

39:34

the lyrics. They're undercutting themselves, which I

39:36

don't mind. But partly, I think that

39:38

was a reaction to the fact that

39:41

people always accuse them of being too

39:43

pompous, which of course, people accuse Radiohead

39:45

of being, but Radiohead never seemed to

39:47

care. They don't seem to care. I

39:49

think U2 maybe took it to heart a little

39:52

bit. There was also that tendency where U2 were

39:54

going to go back to Americana roots that they

39:56

never had growing up in a Northern Ireland. Sorry.

40:00

I beg your pardon, I beg your pardon? Schoolboy era

40:02

number one. Well that's

40:04

a terrible one, yeah. Van Morrison off-air

40:06

a minute ago. They never

40:08

had those Americana reasons. And it always made me

40:10

slightly suspicious, you know, bands that can suddenly find

40:12

America, you know. Yeah. Although Elton John and Bernie

40:14

Tauper managed to pull it off in a way.

40:16

But I never completely buy into it,

40:19

you know. So is

40:21

there a sense that they kind of succeeded in their goal? Because

40:23

this album was massive, wasn't it? This one did, I

40:26

think after this point, maybe not. But this one is

40:28

almost like what you're exactly right. And

40:30

what do people like about us, what we

40:33

do? It was full of the most

40:35

anthemic YouTube pop songs for, you

40:37

know, a decade and a bit. And

40:39

they do pull it off, they're good, they're confident.

40:41

It's a strong album. Then again,

40:44

for me, it's too clean.

40:46

I just, you know, whereas I can, I think

40:48

there were some rough edges and some dust

40:50

bits and brilliant bits on Joshua Tree,

40:52

which keeps it interesting. This

40:55

is kind of almost like a streamlined

40:57

home to perfection U2. Rock

41:00

album. So it's always been slightly less little

41:02

bit contrived. And

41:04

one of the things I suppose I

41:07

never quite trusted about U2 compared to

41:09

some of the artists. You know, Bono

41:11

is clearly very gifted and a brilliant

41:13

frontman. But whenever you saw an interview with

41:15

him, it was either, you know, oh, well

41:17

of course, from the very beginning, Scott Walker's the biggest

41:19

influence. Of course, in the very beginning, Sugar Cube's the

41:21

biggest influence. Of course, in the very beginning, Punk was

41:23

my influence. Of course, in the very beginning, it was

41:25

the straws I loved. He

41:27

always has for whatever interview and

41:30

whatever era. From the very beginning,

41:32

it was Stravinsky, Straub, Punk, Bjork,

41:35

Associates, that was always running

41:37

through his music. I think that's what I mean. I

41:40

never quite trust him. I think there's a lot of

41:42

posturing and badge wearing with them. I

41:44

mean, to be fair, they have an incredibly distinctive sound of

41:46

their own. And when they're just trying to be U2, which

41:49

is most of the time to be fair, it's amazing. But also

41:51

I find his lyrics are not that, I mean,

41:54

there's a song on this album called Elevation. And

41:56

I'm sorry, but when you start doing chorus rhymes

41:58

like I wish you could... fly high up

42:00

in the sky, you're going in all

42:03

of the duck territory for me. This

42:05

is the laziest rhyme in history, fly

42:07

sky and high, sorry. And it's in,

42:09

it's in the big single off this

42:11

record, Elevation, fly sky and high. I'm

42:13

sorry, you've got to do better than

42:15

that, seriously.