0:00

[CRANKING]

0:02

ERIKA RANDALL: A and S.

0:06

[REGISTER CHIMING]

0:09

[MUSIC PLAYING]

0:15

I imagine Rachel Suter standing on a cliff edge

0:18

beside a small waterfall, preparing for her first dive

0:21

into a glowing pool 30 feet below.

0:24

The pool literally glows because Rachel performs her dives

0:27

at the freshly renovated Casa Bonita restaurant in Denver.

0:30

The way the water blends in and out of sapphire blue

0:33

reminds her of her newest painting, exploring neurological degeneration, which reminds her

0:37

in turn to finish her neuroscience homework before she can get to her next student body government

0:41

meeting. I imagine she takes one second to recognize the wafting

0:45

smell of tacos, the shouts at Black Bart's Cave,

0:48

and her fellow performer in a gorilla costume,

0:51

milling among the hundreds of patrons who have

0:54

turned their attention to her.

0:56

She takes a breath, counts back from three, and soars.

1:02

[SPLASH]

1:11

I can't imagine a more surprising person than Rachel.

1:14

She crafts gorgeous visual art based on scientific systems

1:18

and principles she explores in her neuroscience coursework.

1:21

She guides the College of Arts and Sciences student body as vice president.

1:24

She's a model, she dives, and I get the feeling these are just

1:27

the obvious interests. As you will discover in today's episode,

1:31

Rachel lives out the alchemy of anding with ease,

1:34

but it's her unassuming, low-key, might I say quiet,

1:37

fearlessness that's so disarming.

1:39

Rachel seems like someone who can take on anything once she

1:42

walks to the cliff edge, takes a breath,

1:44

and counts back from three.

1:50

On The Ampersand, we call this "bringing together

1:53

of the impossible," "the alchemy of anding."

1:55

Together, we'll hear stories of humans who imagine and create

1:58

by colliding their interests.

2:01

Rather than thinking of "and" as a simple conjunction

2:03

in that conjunction junction kind of way, we will hear stories of people who see "and" as a verb, a way

2:09

to speak the beautiful when you intentionally

2:11

let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.

2:15

As St. Mary Oliver asks, what is it you

2:17

plan to do with your one wild and precious life?

2:21

Oh, I love this question. When I'm mothering, creating, and collaborating,

2:25

it reminds me to replace a singular idea of what I think I should become with a full sensory verb

2:31

about experiencing.

2:33

I'm Erika Randall.

2:35

This is Rachel Suter on The Ampersand.

2:38

[MUSIC PLAYING]

2:47

RACHEL SUTER: When I was younger, I always wanted to dive, but I couldn't because I

2:50

have pretty bad eczema. So I couldn't younger, but I was a competitive gymnast,

2:55

and then following that, I did competitive dance.

2:58

So, you know, just parallel sports, almost.

3:02

And then senior year of high school,

3:04

I just kind of decided like end of COVID, I'm really bored.

3:09

I'm just going to give it a try, you know, just for fun?

3:12

ERIKA RANDALL: Screw the eczema. There's oatmeal baths for that.

3:14

RACHEL SUTER: So true. ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah. [LAUGHS] My kiddo has eczema.

3:18

OK, so you're going to try it. RACHEL SUTER: Yes.

3:20

ERIKA RANDALL: You're going to go in. RACHEL SUTER: Mm-hmm, and like, in the past,

3:23

I had gone cliff diving with friends just at lakes

3:26

and vacations and-- ERIKA RANDALL: See, again, you say

3:29

that so casually-- in the past, I'd gone cliff diving.

3:32

There isn't a world where I walk up to the edge of something actual and jump off of it.

3:37

There was no fear for you there. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I have two brothers,

3:42

and they're the type that they see a cliff,

3:44

and they will jump off of it. And I just don't want to be left out of that, you know?

3:49

So and then, yeah, just having the gymnastics background,

3:53

having that. And the worst that could happen in gymnastics

3:56

is you fall on a really hard surface, and that's really scary.

3:58

But with diving, it's like you're falling on water,

4:02

so there's only so much bad that could happen.

4:05

And the hurt, it's going to hurt, but it won't last that long.

4:08

And cliff diving, I don't go from too high,

4:12

so the risk is minimal.

4:14

But I think the most important thing

4:17

is when I do like the one, two, three count,

4:20

I have to trust myself that I'm going to go for it, you know?

4:23

And it's like-- ERIKA RANDALL: Is that what you say literally every time--

4:26

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah. ERIKA RANDALL: --you get to the edge? RACHEL SUTER: Yep.

4:28

Yeah-- ERIKA RANDALL: OK, well, I want to hear it. Walk me through.

4:30

RACHEL SUTER: Oh. ERIKA RANDALL: Put me in your body.

4:33

RACHEL SUTER: Oh, man. Yeah, I think it's just a quick visualization of the dive.

4:38

I mean, if it's a forward dive or a backflip, not too much.

4:42

It's pretty simple. But if it's more of like a twisty dive,

4:45

just stepping through what my arms are going to do and whatnot, and then standing on the edge,

4:49

marking my place in the water.

4:51

And if it's a smaller pool, just making

4:54

a plan for what I'm going to do underwater because you

4:56

can flip out of it either way.

4:58

And so choosing space and also choosing

5:01

if I'm going to flip out of it right away or if it's safe enough to go and bounce off the bottom almost,

5:07

which I can do it, pools like Casa Bonita,

5:09

but I can't at cliff diving spots like Paradise Cove.

5:13

So, yeah, just making a plan, going through it,

5:16

and then just counting off, like one, two, three, go,

5:20

and just trusting that on three, I would go.

5:24

ERIKA RANDALL: Life lessons with Rachel Suter,

5:27

making a plan, trusting it.

5:29

One, two, three, go.

5:34

OK, so is that what took you to interview at Casa Bonita,

5:38

that just one, two, three, go, let's do this?

5:41

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah. I mean, I didn't expect to get the job.

5:45

So it was more of a, "I might as well."

5:49

That would just be so cool.

5:51

I have a dance background, so I have

5:53

the performance aspect and-- ERIKA RANDALL: And had you been there

5:57

as a kiddo if you're from the Springs? RACHEL SUTER: No, I'd heard all about it,

6:00

but I had never actually been. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, so you heard the lore.

6:03

RACHEL SUTER: Yes. ERIKA RANDALL: But you had never been and had the terrible taco

6:06

salad with the pepto-bismol chaser. RACHEL SUTER: Never had it.

6:09

ERIKA RANDALL: Never had it. And did you hear about how there used

6:11

to be the electrical room at the bottom of the dive pool?

6:14

RACHEL SUTER: They fixed that. ERIKA RANDALL: OK.

6:16

[LAUGHS] RACHEL SUTER: It's all safe, yes, but--

6:19

ERIKA RANDALL: And we know that you're sworn to secrecy because we're recording

6:22

this in the land of June, and you're not-- right?

6:24

And we will disclose nothing.

6:27

Even though we will be speaking to the past

6:30

because this will air later, we're

6:32

still going to honor our contractual agreements because you're that kind of human.

6:36

But you went to the interview. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, so I ended up going because just so many

6:40

of my friends and family had just been like,

6:43

oh, you have to. You dive.

6:45

You just have to do it. I was like, OK. ERIKA RANDALL: And I know that this has already

6:49

been leaked that there can be multiple divers at a time

6:52

through math, or is that just internet lore?

6:55

Maybe Rachel can't say-- RACHEL SUTER: I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you that.

6:57

ERIKA RANDALL: OK, I'm gonna wait. RACHEL SUTER: You're going to have to find out.

7:00

ERIKA RANDALL: I can't wait. I'm so going to Casa Bonita to watch you dive.

7:03

RACHEL SUTER: I can't wait. ERIKA RANDALL: I will wait in line. I will eat the hopefully better food.

7:07

I will drink the goblets just to watch you,

7:09

and then I will be an overly proud cheer mom.

7:11

RACHEL SUTER: Aw. ERIKA RANDALL: It's going to be so great.

7:14

So when we think about this pattern of success,

7:18

this way that you set up the visualization, all

7:21

of the things, does this show up for you in other ways in your life?

7:24

Because on top of being now this enigmatic Casa Bonita diver,

7:28

you are also a neuroscience student.

7:31

You're also a visual artist. You are on student government.

7:35

You are a leader in your community.

7:37

You are one of the kindest humans I know.

7:39

And, and, and, and then you tell me you model,

7:43

and I just couldn't even put that part into the Rachel egg.

7:46

Talk to me about if that method for getting to the edge

7:50

and looking over, does that serve you in other spaces?

7:55

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, it's more of like, I'm young

7:59

and I know that this is the time in my life

8:02

where I will most be able to try new things

8:04

and pursue different things and have no consequences if it

8:07

doesn't work out. And so--

8:10

ERIKA RANDALL: OK, wait a second. You really just have that freedom in your mind,

8:16

like this is the time when I'm young.

8:19

How good were your parents, or did they just

8:22

never know if you were home? RACHEL SUTER: [LAUGHS] No, my parents are amazing.

8:26

They-- very adventurous.

8:28

Pushed us, my brothers and I, all to try new things

8:31

and just be confident in what we're doing. ERIKA RANDALL: Did they throw you into the pool

8:35

when you were a little kid with all your clothes on and see if you would drown?

8:38

RACHEL SUTER: I don't know, but they might have. ERIKA RANDALL: They might.

8:40

They were that parenting book. RACHEL SUTER: Yes.

8:44

And just if we had a little interest in something,

8:47

they would help us and support us and provide the materials

8:50

to do those, which I really appreciate and I

8:52

know not everybody has. And so I think that definitely has

8:57

allowed me to become a better artist and interested in sciences because they

9:01

allowed me to have those, yeah, resources as a kid.

9:05

And so now that I have the freedom of my own time,

9:08

I'm able to explore those.

9:11

ERIKA RANDALL: Were science and art always married for you?

9:13

Because when I look at your art first of all, it's astounding to me.

9:16

RACHEL SUTER: Thank you. ERIKA RANDALL: I had seen the original piece that you shared

9:19

with me with the viscous--

9:21

this gesture of hands under the sternum and the heart

9:24

dripping out of your cage. And then there were other things that showed up

9:28

in your art, this perspective, detail, that kind of pencil

9:32

sketch fury. Like, there's a quickness that also maybe is not

9:37

showing how much time it takes.

9:41

I mean, it's a lot of time. RACHEL SUTER: Yes, quite.

9:44

And a project will take probably 15 more hours.

9:49

It really depends. But the more time consuming part is the research and development

9:55

portion. ERIKA RANDALL: Yes, and you can see that the science is in it.

9:58

And the research is in the science. Yes, OK.

10:00

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, because a lot of my art does deal with scientific topics.

10:04

A lot of times, I just don't even know what I want to do,

10:07

and it starts with the research and just taking notes and deciding on a topic

10:12

that I like and I'm passionate about. And so I'll continue doing research

10:16

and start with little 1 inch by 1 inch thumbnail sketches

10:20

of little ideas I could do. ERIKA RANDALL: Kind of storyboarding?

10:23

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. ERIKA RANDALL: I felt that in the timeline,

10:26

there were these little-- is it like that, those kind of rough sketches that show, oh,

10:30

here's a spark that connects me to this idea?

10:32

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, my rough draft pages

10:35

are quite a bit more chaotic than that.

10:39

I can show you a few more. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, I do want you to show me.

10:42

Show me a sketch because I want-- RACHEL SUTER: OK, yes, so it starts

10:44

with just a lot of research and then thumbnail sketches.

10:47

And then it almost becomes a conversation

10:50

on the page of, oh, I like this idea, but not this.

10:55

I'll show you the-- so here's for the project I showed you.

10:59

And it started with the research. So it's a way to have a conversation with myself

11:03

because I never know what it's going to be when I first start.

11:06

And it goes through so many stages. And sometimes what I end up with is not even

11:11

on the same topic as what I began with.

11:13

ERIKA RANDALL: And are you starting-- so you're starting from the science.

11:15

Is it the science that's been sparked to you in a class

11:18

or just that you're reading about and that you're curious about?

11:20

RACHEL SUTER: Ooh, it depends. In high school, junior year, I did

11:25

an investigation of medical history,

11:29

and so just research of the most prominent and influential

11:32

moments throughout medical history. And then senior year, it was just

11:35

a history of STEM and just important moments there.

11:38

But so that was more just me researching on my own,

11:42

but now a lot of my pieces, I try

11:45

to correlate to neuroscience.

11:47

And sometimes that relates really strongly to my classes.

11:50

I mean, I haven't been to medical school

11:53

or really pursued any of these scientific topics in depth,

11:56

so I'm not trying to create a just completely realistic

12:00

and to the science image. It's more of a interpretation.

12:04

And yeah, so I've been leaning into that a lot more.

12:08

ERIKA RANDALL: And it also feels educational. Like, when I looked at this, I thought,

12:11

this is how you get younger folks stoked on science, right?

12:16

Did that happen for you as a young person? Did you see something that was representative in that kind

12:21

of internal, emotional, not necessarily technical, way,

12:26

or is this just how your brain works? RACHEL SUTER: I don't know.

12:28

I think it's just how it works. And I didn't start it off combining science and art.

12:33

It was always, when I was younger, separate.

12:35

And art was just my-- in my free time,

12:38

I loved to do it, and not for any purpose, not for my career,

12:42

but just because I love it. And I always planned on going to med school.

12:46

So they sat in very separate boxes.

12:49

And so it was in high school that I started combining them,

12:51

and I was like, oh, this is cool, but they're still sitting in separate boxes.

12:55

I'm still going to go to med school and keep art as just

12:57

a for fun sort of thing.

12:59

And then last semester, I discovered

13:02

that medical illustration is a career. And--

13:04

ERIKA RANDALL: And the anding happened. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, and so suddenly these two things

13:08

that I never thought that I could professionally

13:10

combine for a career, I can.

13:13

And I'm quite excited because I've been doing both my whole life, but not

13:17

expecting to be able to. Yeah. ERIKA RANDALL: In separate glasses. And now this is what I'm talking about with this kind

13:22

of unified egg, is it spills open,

13:24

and then there's all of it inside.

13:27

That's a moment of discovery.

13:30

And did it happen like lightning bolt?

13:32

Was it in a class? Was it with a professor? Was it a mentor who showed you this career?

13:36

RACHEL SUTER: It was kind of all at once a little bit.

13:40

My art professor, at the time, was like,

13:42

you could make your career out of this. I had done a piece on neuroanatomy,

13:46

and then my molecular biology professor was like, oh,

13:50

did you know there's scientific art?

13:52

And then I had also seen a video online of somebody getting

13:56

their masters and just the illustrations

13:58

that they had done, that they had gotten to sit in on surgeries and draw the steps and whatnot.

14:04

ERIKA RANDALL: This is so 1800s.

14:06

RACHEL SUTER: [LAUGHS] I know. It's so fun.

14:09

ERIKA RANDALL: It's so fun, and it still is happening.

14:11

Do you draw on this computer thing all the time?

14:14

RACHEL SUTER: Not all the time.

14:16

I usually more use my iPad for planning,

14:19

but I do have some digital pieces in there.

14:21

ERIKA RANDALL: But because it seems like you're working a lot with ink, pencil, like texture.

14:25

Yeah, and so that's actually physical material

14:28

in the luddite world, not technology.

14:30

Oh, I love that there is a career that has been waiting for you.

14:33

RACHEL SUTER: I do, too. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, so how does student government work

14:36

in all this? How does this advocacy work happen?

14:39

[LAUGHTER]

14:42

RACHEL SUTER: That's like one of the separate things

14:44

where I do all the other things, and I forget.

14:46

I'm like, oh, yeah, I do that sometimes, you know?

14:49

Yeah, I also joined student government

14:51

my senior year of high school. Just why not?

14:55

And I really enjoyed that. So then when I came here, I joined Arts and Sciences

14:59

student government. At the time, it was less than it is now substantially, but--

15:05

ERIKA RANDALL: Proud of that. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah.

15:07

But yeah-- ERIKA RANDALL: But building student voice and advocacy,

15:10

that's a big thing for you and this notion of really building

15:14

your voice. What does future Rachel--

15:17

does future Rachel have expectations of now Rachel, or is she pretty happy?

15:22

She kind of likes the way--

15:24

the mystery? RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I don't know.

15:27

ERIKA RANDALL: When you're looking to her, what do you see?

15:32

RACHEL SUTER: I'm not really sure. I think it's like my outlook on my future has changed a lot

15:37

recently, given drastic career choice doesn't-- you know,

15:40

but so I don't really know.

15:43

I think the most important thing I

15:46

feel like when I think about looking back in the future is,

15:50

I don't want to regret not having done something or not

15:54

having done it well enough.

15:56

Or yeah, I want to have tried a little bit of everything

16:00

and just-- ERIKA RANDALL: How do you know what's well enough?

16:02

I look at your work, and I mean, truly, I love it.

16:06

I think about you on the cliff edge, and I'm stunned by it.

16:12

Diving scores, are they in 10s? Does it go to 10?

16:14

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah. ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah. What's well enough for-- is it like you got to be a nine?

16:17

Like, what's a good score on the diveometer?

16:21

RACHEL SUTER: Well, for diving in particular? ERIKA RANDALL: No, as a metaphor for Rachel looking at her life

16:26

and thinking, ah, I've combined this, I've tried this,

16:29

I've done this well enough.

16:32

RACHEL SUTER: That's a good question. I think I like to do it to the best of my ability.

16:37

And sometimes there's circumstances where I can't.

16:40

And that is incredibly frustrating for me. ERIKA RANDALL: Belly-flop.

16:43

Smack. RACHEL SUTER: Right. So it's more of just like making the most of it to my capacity

16:49

and trying to accept if I can't, that's OK, too.

16:52

And-- ERIKA RANDALL: You had really good parents.

16:55

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I know. [LAUGHS] Yeah.

17:00

ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah, and the fearless spirit

17:03

that started as this tagalong third kid, two brothers,

17:07

but you've cultivated it.

17:10

I mean, you could look into like over a cliff

17:13

or over the cliff of a body into the bloody parts

17:16

and be totally fine, unlike Grassley, who told me

17:20

a story that I won't air.

17:23

I'll let him share it in an interview,

17:25

but doesn't do so well with the blood.

17:28

Yeah, and it came up even looking at one of your works

17:31

because it's so viscous. For you, that, no fear?

17:35

RACHEL SUTER: Mm-mm. Yeah, I've watched surgeries and whatnot.

17:39

ERIKA RANDALL: Live in real-time? RACHEL SUTER: Oh, yeah.

17:41

Oh, yeah. ERIKA RANDALL: Like, what?

17:43

RACHEL SUTER: When I was a freshman in high school,

17:46

I shadowed an anesthesiologist for a day

17:49

and saw a lot of surgeries there. And then last summer, I did an internship in Greece

17:55

and just got to watch surgeries for a month.

17:58

ERIKA RANDALL: What's the coolest surgery you saw?

18:00

RACHEL SUTER: Ooh. I would say probably just craziest

18:06

is like the hip replacements and the crazy orthopedic--

18:09

ERIKA RANDALL: Do you know about my hip situation?

18:11

RACHEL SUTER: No. ERIKA RANDALL: I had a total hip reconstruction with four screws

18:16

like Wolverine-style. I want to show you.

18:19

RACHEL SUTER: Yes, please. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, I have x-rays. RACHEL SUTER: Yay.

18:21

ERIKA RANDALL: I love that you're excited. Most people, I'm like, can I text you this?

18:23

They're like, no. [LAUGHS] So you saw a replacement

18:27

or a reconstruction of a hip? RACHEL SUTER: Replacement.

18:30

I saw lots. ERIKA RANDALL: You saw lots?

18:32

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah. ERIKA RANDALL: I want a drawing of that.

18:35

RACHEL SUTER: I did sketch one of the surgeries.

18:38

I have it somewhere. I actually-- yes, I do, I do.

18:44

And in Greece, their rules are a little bit different.

18:48

And so one of the doctors-- ERIKA RANDALL: Is that why you went there?

18:51

RACHEL SUTER: No, I had no idea. I just wanted to go to Greece.

18:53

ERIKA RANDALL: Smart. Why not? Cliff diving, and you found that so fast.

18:57

Whoa, this is totally court-- I don't know what you call the court stenographer.

19:00

It's not-- RACHEL SUTER: I don't either. ERIKA RANDALL: Wow.

19:04

I love even how the surgeon looking on

19:06

is holding their hands. Can you talk to me about hands?

19:09

Because they come up a lot, both in your work and just the way

19:13

you use them to make it.

19:15

Are they an important focus for you? RACHEL SUTER: I don't mean them to be,

19:18

but they do just appear in a lot of my work.

19:20

And I think it's like almost a way

19:24

to describe human nature or just emotion without having

19:29

to do a portrait. It feels less on the nose for me a little bit.

19:33

ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah, the way the hands operate in the moment.

19:35

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, and I love drawing them and painting them.

19:39

It's just fun, but yeah, just, I think it, a lot of times,

19:43

fits into the story that I'm trying to tell.

19:45

So it ends up in a lot of my work, even though I don't mean to have a series of hands.

19:49

ERIKA RANDALL: No, and it doesn't feel like a series of hands.

19:52

It just feels important. Are you a natural reflector?

19:54

It seems so in your art. And so in that natural reflection,

19:57

is that part of the planning? Is that part of the visualizing, that backwards to go forward?

20:02

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, especially in the pieces and art pieces

20:05

that are a little bit more like self portrait or reflective

20:08

of my own feelings and thoughts and desires and whatnot.

20:12

Those that are more scientific, a little bit less

20:16

and it's a little bit more factually driven. And so it's really fun getting to do a little bit of each.

20:23

ERIKA RANDALL: Do you ever feel like you're doing too much?

20:25

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, sometimes.

20:27

But I wouldn't want to stop doing

20:31

any of the things I'm doing, and it's

20:33

been hard to learn to take a step back sometimes.

20:36

But-- ERIKA RANDALL: What are your signs that say, step back?

20:39

Is it like when--

20:42

what is does too much look like for you? So we talked about kind of like what does success look like,

20:46

but what is too much, too many, all the things at once?

20:49

How do you know? What does your brain tell you when

20:51

it blows out the back of your head in that beautiful drawing?

20:54

RACHEL SUTER: It's kind of when I

20:58

start enjoying the time without those things

21:02

more than the time I'm spending with them.

21:05

And yeah, like when I'm sitting and looking

21:08

at a task or responsibility I have and dreading it, you know?

21:13

And I could be dreading that because of something else

21:15

that's pressing on me, or it's just like that task is no longer that fulfilling to me.

21:19

And so, the fact that I have that freedom

21:23

to then step away from those things is really nice.

21:25

ERIKA RANDALL: But it is. It's kind of that dread that is your cue.

21:28

Like, ooh, Rachel, get back in the game.

21:30

RACHEL SUTER: Yep. ERIKA RANDALL: Yep, and then one, two, three, go.

21:33

RACHEL SUTER: Yep, yeah.

21:35

Yeah, I originally majored in art, just as a way--

21:40

because I know I'm a busy person. I need to fill my time, or I just

21:44

don't feel like as, I guess, fulfilled.

21:47

And so I knew that going into college and originally wanting to go to med school,

21:51

I was like, only going to major in neuroscience.

21:54

And then I decided. I was like, I'm going to need to structure

21:57

in some time in my day intentionally

22:00

for the things I love. And so that's pretty much the only reason

22:04

I majored in art as well, was so that I could be forced to--

22:07

ERIKA RANDALL: Hold that space. RACHEL SUTER: Yes, hold that space.

22:10

ERIKA RANDALL: For the thing you loved while you did this other thing that you were going to do.

22:14

RACHEL SUTER: Right. ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah. RACHEL SUTER: Which I also adore neuroscience, but yeah,

22:18

it was just like, I think sometimes I

22:20

have to also schedule in space for the things that

22:24

are important to me. And so it's exciting that that worked out really

22:27

well with art. And yeah.

22:29

ERIKA RANDALL: And do you feel a loss in letting go of the Dr. Rachel part,

22:33

or do you feel just full gain as they come together?

22:37

RACHEL SUTER: A little bit of loss, but the more I sit with it, the more I realize is that like,

22:43

I'm more fascinated by the learning aspect of it

22:47

and just my fascination of the human body,

22:49

but actually being a practitioner and doctor, that

22:54

is less appealing. It's more that I just want to know, you know?

22:57

And so this new career, it's like I can make a career out

23:01

of always doing art and always learning.

23:04

I will always be learning something new, which

23:07

is quite exciting for me, and my days won't be redundant.

23:10

And the other exciting thing is that I can have a career where

23:15

I get to listen to audiobooks. And that is a big thing for me.

23:18

ERIKA RANDALL: So while you're drawing, you're listening to a different story?

23:22

RACHEL SUTER: Yes. ERIKA RANDALL: [LAUGHS]

23:24

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I can't do art if there's not like a--

23:28

ERIKA RANDALL: So you're not in the research of the heart.

23:32

You're listening to Michelle Obama's memoir?

23:36

RACHEL SUTER: Well, the research part, that's-- ERIKA RANDALL: It's already happened.

23:38

It's done. RACHEL SUTER: The research part, I'm accompanied

23:40

by classical music, you know? I love classical, so that's where I get that.

23:44

But once I'm into the process and it's just

23:48

painting for 15 hours, it's like, I

23:51

don't want to sit with my thoughts for quite that long,

23:53

you know? ERIKA RANDALL: So what's the last thing you painted, and what audiobook were you listening to?

23:57

RACHEL SUTER: Oh, I just finished a painting of the Flatiron as like a grad gift,

24:02

and I was listening to a book called The Name of the Wind.

24:05

I just finished it yesterday, and it was really, really good.

24:08

But it's so fun because sometimes I can look back at a painting or a drawing

24:13

and see and think of exactly where I was in the book

24:16

when I was doing that detail or-- you know?

24:18

So it's kind of fun. ERIKA RANDALL: I can't believe those things converge

24:22

in your world. I want to hear another drawing and another book

24:26

that you listen to. RACHEL SUTER: Oh, uh-- ERIKA RANDALL: Because it seems like you catalog them in a way.

24:30

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. I'm trying to think.

24:33

I think this one, I was watching a TV show. Unusual for me.

24:35

ERIKA RANDALL: But not Gray's Anatomy. RACHEL SUTER: No, it was Peaky Blinders.

24:40

ERIKA RANDALL: The hip surgery and Peaky Blinders.

24:42

RACHEL SUTER: Yes. [LAUGHTER] ERIKA RANDALL: This is some excellent anding.

24:46

Give me another one. I could do this all day. RACHEL SUTER: Oh, man, the one with the rib cage

24:50

and the visceral heart, I was listening to just an epic fantasy called The Way of Kings.

24:55

ERIKA RANDALL: Love. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, it was--

24:58

ERIKA RANDALL: This triangulation is so up my alley.

25:00

OK, more. RACHEL SUTER: Oh, goodness.

25:02

I'm trying to think of pieces right now. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, what about the Morse code?

25:06

Because I love the Morse code one.

25:08

What were you listening to?

25:10

RACHEL SUTER: Ooh.

25:13

I did that like 3 and 1/2 years ago.

25:15

I don't know if I can remember. But a fun fact about that painting,

25:18

like the Morse code in it, it's like the history of Morse code,

25:22

but in Morse code. ERIKA RANDALL: Shut the front door.

25:24

RACHEL SUTER: Isn't that so fun? ERIKA RANDALL: That's why I'm talking about the egg.

25:27

You are one faberge egg inside of another,

25:29

all these little nesting eggs.

25:31

So the Morse code in the painting is saying something.

25:35

RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, so I've forgotten it by now,

25:38

but at the time, I learned Morse code so then I could put my research into the painting.

25:43

It was a good time. ERIKA RANDALL: Snaps to that, Rachel.

25:46

That's amazing. OK, it's time.

25:49

It's time. It's time. It's time for the Quick and Dirty.

25:51

I look to producer Tim Grassley to see if my internal clock is right.

25:54

This is a game show where you cannot lose,

25:57

and it is you against yourself. RACHEL SUTER: Oh, man.

26:00

ERIKA RANDALL: One, two, three, go. RACHEL SUTER: All right.

26:03

ERIKA RANDALL: OK, your next and art piece.

26:06

What are you working on that you're anding?

26:10

RACHEL SUTER: I want to do a little bit more figure drawing,

26:13

but integrating anatomy into it, and so just, I

26:17

guess, learning about both in the same vein.

26:20

I'm taking both figure drawing and anatomy lab next semester,

26:23

so I look forward to combining those. ERIKA RANDALL: Fantastic.

26:25

Two or three art materials that you would have to have on a desert island?

26:30

RACHEL SUTER: The really cheap $0.50 BIC pens.

26:33

I love those. Oh, my gosh, one of my favorite art materials, and some paper

26:38

and watercolors. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, your diving theme song with and in it.

26:43

Are you ever diving with a song in your head,

26:45

or are you just on the one, two, three? RACHEL SUTER: It's really the last song I listened to,

26:48

and it plays on repeat for two hours until I can listen to a new one.

26:52

ERIKA RANDALL: So what was that? Any of them that have and in it?

26:54

RACHEL SUTER: Oh, man.

26:57

I don't know. ERIKA RANDALL: You can even say like, in an island in the sun,

27:03

that Weezer song that has and in island.

27:05

RACHEL SUTER: Well, the problem is, I listen to a lot of classical music.

27:07

ERIKA RANDALL: Classical, OK, so like Beethoven and Bach?

27:10

RACHEL SUTER: Yes, I'll say-- ERIKA RANDALL: That's also not a problem.

27:13

I do, too. RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I love it.

27:16

Oh, my gosh. I'm forgetting all of the composers I love.

27:18

ERIKA RANDALL: Chopin and Schubert? RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I like a little bit more modern.

27:22

I don't know how to pronounce his name too well.

27:24

It's like Ludovico Einaudi, Einaudi,

27:27

something like that-- excellent. And who does the--

27:32

oh, I like Vivaldi. ERIKA RANDALL: OK, we can't be mad about Vivaldi.

27:35

OK, the best way to spend a Boulder afternoon

27:38

with your roomies. RACHEL SUTER: By the creek, I think.

27:42

And yeah, by the creek and just with them

27:46

and present, I suppose.

27:49

ERIKA RANDALL: By the creek with them and present.

27:52

I love that. An and-er you admire?

27:55

RACHEL SUTER: Ooh, there's a neuroscientist.

27:57

His name is Oliver Sacks, and he kind of integrates both this--

28:02

he has this ability to put all these intense scientific

28:07

and neuroscientific concepts and combine it

28:09

with psychology and linguistics, and then

28:13

is able to perfectly portray it to an audience that

28:15

has no idea what he would be talking about otherwise.

28:18

ERIKA RANDALL: So no jargon, just sharing it forward.

28:20

I love that. All right, speaking of sharing forward,

28:22

you're giving a graduation speech.

28:25

You're sending folks off into their next.

28:29

How would you begin? And may you always have warm pockets.

28:34

So start with your-- what would your--

28:38

RACHEL SUTER: Oh, my goodness. I don't know.

28:41

ERIKA RANDALL: No wrong answers. RACHEL SUTER: See, I gave my high school graduation speech,

28:45

and I sat on this question for probably--

28:47

ERIKA RANDALL: Of course you did. RACHEL SUTER: --days.

28:51

ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah, but now, now you know so much more.

28:53

Now you're a diver at Casa Bonita.

28:55

RACHEL SUTER: I think I would say, why not?

28:59

You know? You're like, you're looking at something.

29:01

You're wondering if you should. Why not?

29:04

[MUSIC PLAYING]

29:07

ERIKA RANDALL: That was Rachel Suter on The Ampersand.

29:11

To witness some of Rachel's incredible art, see our show notes.

29:17

The Ampersand is a production of the College of Arts and Sciences at the University of Colorado,

29:22

Boulder. It is written and produced by me, Erika Randall,

29:25

and Tim Grassley. If there are people you'd like us to interview

29:29

on The Ampersand, do please email us

29:31

at [email protected] Our theme music

29:36

was composed and performed by Nelson Walker. And the episodes are recorded at Interplay Recording

29:40

in Boulder, Colorado.

29:42

I'm Erika Randall, and this is The Ampersand.