0:01

Hey everyone,

0:04

it's Andrew

0:06

Klavan with this week's

0:09

interview with constitutional lawyer

0:20

Alan Dershowitz. He's

0:22

got a new book out called The War

0:24

Against the Jews, How to End Hamas Barbarism.

0:27

In these last few months since

0:29

the savage October 7th attack on

0:31

Israel by the monsters of Hamas,

0:33

we've seen almost amazingly

0:35

an upsurge in anti-Semitism throughout the West,

0:38

including here in America, especially in

0:40

leftist enclaves like college campuses and the

0:42

news media. This didn't take

0:44

me by surprise, I have to say.

0:46

My first novel was published in 1980

0:48

and I remember a line in it

0:50

in which I referred to a generation

0:52

of holiday Jews, by which I meant

0:55

the Jews that came in the generation

0:57

after the Holocaust when a sense of

0:59

shame had been awakened in people so

1:01

that anti-Semitic remarks and attitudes became unacceptable

1:03

in polite company. I called them holiday

1:05

Jews because I knew the holiday would end. And the

1:07

reason I believe that is I believe that hatred

1:10

of the Jews is a religious

1:12

issue everywhere and always, that it arises

1:14

from a hatred of the biblical God

1:16

who became the West's God through Jesus

1:19

Christ. And I think that that

1:21

God with his heart for the downtrodden and his

1:23

care for women and his insistence on humility shines

1:26

a light on human evil and people hate him and

1:28

they hate the Jews for writing about him and having

1:30

him and revealing him to

1:32

the nations. Now, I suspect that

1:35

Alan Dershowitz disagrees with some of that, but I have

1:37

to say throughout these latter days

1:40

of censorship and cancellation and

1:42

the Trump derangement syndrome, Alan

1:44

has remained insistently a voice for free speech,

1:47

for constitutional norms and civilized disagreement. So I

1:49

do disagree with him on a lot of

1:51

issues, but I'm always happy to bring him

1:53

on and talk to him. And I'd like

1:56

to talk to him today about the war

1:58

against the Jews, how to end. Hamas,

2:00

Barbra's, and Alan, thank you for coming on. It's good to see

2:02

you again. Alan Guttmacher Well, thanks for

2:04

having me. On October 7th, it

2:07

was a Saturday. I generally don't work on Saturday.

2:10

But as soon as I heard the horrible news, I

2:12

decided to drop everything, call my

2:14

publisher, and say to him that I

2:17

really want to write a book about this. He said, well,

2:19

we don't know how long this will last. Can you

2:22

get it to me in 30 days? And I said,

2:24

yeah, I can. I got it to

2:26

him in 30 days. And within a couple of

2:28

weeks after that, he published it.

2:31

It's Skyhorse Publishing, and they have

2:33

this incredible ability to get books

2:35

out quickly. So in less than

2:38

two months from October 7th, the

2:40

book was in hardcover form. It may get

2:42

into the Guinness Book Record book

2:45

ever published. Since the

2:47

good Lord gave Moses the Ten Commandments

2:49

on top of the sign, I'm

2:52

not making any comparisons. But

2:55

certainly in terms of speed, look,

2:57

it took me 70 years to write

2:59

this book, not 30 days. I've been

3:01

thinking about these issues, writing about

3:04

them, talking about them. Basically,

3:06

since 1948, since I was

3:08

a 10-year-old kid, and my counselor in

3:10

camp was Noam Chomsky, who at the time

3:13

was a strong Zionist. A

3:15

member of Hashoma Haseir, the left-wing

3:18

Zionist group, now he's obviously an

3:20

anti-Zionist. So I noticed you call

3:22

this book The War

3:24

Against the Jews, which is also the name

3:26

of a famous book by a historian named

3:29

Lucy Davidovitz, who makes the argument that

3:32

Hitler, it was more important to

3:34

Hitler to kill Jews than it was to win the

3:36

war, essentially. Why did

3:38

you choose that name? I mean, that's a

3:40

pretty essential Holocaust reference book. Why did you

3:42

choose that name here? Well,

3:45

I started as The War

3:47

Against Israel, and then it became clear

3:49

to me that it was beyond Israel.

3:51

And by the way, that prediction came

3:54

true just now when we discovered

3:56

Hamas sending its agents

3:58

to Europe. to try to

4:01

blow up synagogues. Now, the synagogues are

4:03

in Israel. For all we

4:05

know, some of the people in the synagogues

4:07

are anti-Zionists, just like some of

4:09

the people who were killed on October 7th

4:12

were very strident opponents of Israel.

4:15

Some of them were anti-Zionists, some

4:17

of them were Zionists, who

4:20

were very strongly opposed to the current

4:22

government, strongly opposed to Netanyahu, strongly

4:24

opposed to many of Israeli policies,

4:27

but Hamas made no distinction. If you're

4:29

a Jew, you're a target. And

4:31

of course, the Hamas charter talks

4:34

about Jews, not about

4:36

Israelis. And

4:38

so I decided really it was war. If

4:40

I had to write it again today, I

4:43

might have changed it to the

4:45

war against Western civilization. Because

4:49

if Hamas is not defeated in the

4:52

Middle East, it's coming to a theater near you. This

4:55

is a worldwide effort. Hamas is becoming

4:57

much more like ISIS and

5:00

Al-Qaeda, like 9-11. And

5:02

it wouldn't surprise me, and it wouldn't surprise

5:04

the head of the FBI who made a

5:07

statement recently about that, that

5:09

this kind of Hamas terrorism

5:11

is gonna result either in

5:13

copycat crimes around the

5:15

world or in Hamas expanding the

5:18

way ISIS and Al-Qaeda did, their

5:21

territorial goals. Remember

5:23

too that Iran, which

5:25

is behind all of this, it

5:28

is the evil doer of the world today. It

5:30

is the Nazis. They

5:32

regard Israel as only the little devil

5:35

and America as the big devil. And

5:37

so when they send their proxies

5:40

to kill people in Israel, as they did with

5:42

Hamas, it's not gonna be

5:44

a long step for them to

5:46

send their proxies to start killing

5:48

people in Berlin and in Paris

5:51

and in New York and in

5:53

Chicago. You know, the

5:55

atrocities that were committed in Israel were

5:57

so bad, you quote our own Ben

5:59

Shapiro. in the book talking about

6:01

the fact that no matter what happened to

6:03

most of us, we wouldn't do the things

6:05

that Hamas did on October 7th, a really

6:08

insightful point. You

6:10

also, you warmed my old English major

6:12

heart by quoting John Milton, his

6:15

description of Samson as being eyeless in Gaza,

6:17

blind in Gaza. You can't help when

6:20

you hear that phrase, but think of the queers

6:22

for Palestine and the feminists for

6:25

Palestine, the Jews for Palestine, who

6:27

seemed to be endorsing a place

6:30

and a philosophy and a people who would happily

6:32

wipe them off the face of the earth if

6:34

they ever were to arrive in there anywhere near

6:36

them. How do you encounter that? They

6:39

hate Jews more than they

6:42

like themselves. I mean, the

6:44

idea of feminists for rape,

6:46

which is what the Me Too

6:48

movement should call itself now, feminists

6:51

for rape, what the National

6:53

Lawyers Guild should call itself,

6:55

progressive for pogroms. I

6:57

mean, these people have no shame.

7:00

Their hatred for Israel,

7:02

for America, for the

7:04

Judeo-Christian tradition is

7:06

so deep that they're willing to forget

7:08

their own interests. My son,

7:11

who's very clever, said he wants

7:13

to have birthright for Gaza, in

7:15

which all these people can go

7:17

to Gaza and will pay for

7:19

it because it'll be cheap. All you need is

7:21

a one-way ticket. None of them get out of

7:23

the pie. It is

7:25

absolutely remarkable. I have friends whose children

7:28

are feminists and they are refusing to

7:31

believe that there were rapes, even

7:33

though the evidence is so overwhelming. When it

7:35

comes to an ordinary, there's no such thing

7:37

as an ordinary rape, but a horrible in

7:41

America, if a woman says

7:43

yes and there are 10 witnesses who say no,

7:46

they say, no, believe the woman,

7:48

even though she has no corroborating

7:50

evidence whatsoever. But in this case,

7:53

where you have videotapes, where you

7:55

have eyewitness testimony, where you have

7:57

forensic evidence, where you have evidence, where you have evidence,

7:59

where you that proves it beyond any doubt

8:02

enough to convict anybody in any court

8:04

of law, many of them

8:06

are still saying, well, we haven't seen the

8:08

smoking gun. Yeah, because the people who were

8:10

raped were murdered and they can't

8:12

be witnesses. And the same

8:14

thing is probably true of some of

8:17

the hostages who are being raped as

8:19

we speak. But you cannot get feminist

8:21

groups to speak out against these rapes,

8:23

these beheadings, the burning of babies. You

8:26

can get them to speak out against

8:28

the microaggression. They fired Lawrence

8:31

Summons, the president of Harvard, because

8:33

he dared to suggest there may be

8:35

some genetic differences between men and women

8:37

when it comes to the ability to

8:40

do physics and math. My wife, who's

8:42

a PhD neuropsychologist, says she

8:44

thinks there are and there are some

8:47

biological differences that also make women

8:49

better in certain subjects than others.

8:52

Men and women are different. But

8:54

for saying that, for even suggesting

8:57

it, Summers gets fired. He,

8:59

as the president of Harvard, then the

9:01

new president of Harvard as well, but

9:03

free speech, we can't condemn people who

9:05

call for genocide against the Jews. That

9:08

would be against our rules. You can

9:10

fire a president, you can

9:12

rescind admission letters if

9:15

somebody said something that

9:17

might be interpreted as

9:19

negative to a protected

9:21

minority. You know, Jews

9:23

are today exempted from

9:25

DEI, the programs

9:28

that are now being used, diversity,

9:31

equity, and inclusion, which are the

9:33

opposite of diversity. They are only

9:35

skin color diversity, and they're an

9:37

ideological diversity. Equity is the opposite

9:39

of equality. Inclusion explicitly

9:42

excludes Jews. And so these

9:45

have become the hotbeds

9:48

of anti-Semitism. And

9:51

it's not enough to get a president or

9:53

a pen to resign.

9:55

We have to dismantle

9:57

these DEI programs because

10:00

They are the end of education, the

10:02

end of real equality, the end

10:04

of Martin Luther King's dream and

10:07

the end of a situation where

10:09

Jews are treated equally on campus,

10:11

Jews are regarded as the oppressors,

10:13

Palestinians, as the oppressed under the

10:15

DEI program. And

10:17

the oppressor can do no right and the oppressed

10:19

can do no wrong. You know,

10:22

a friend of mine who is a college

10:24

professor at Hillsdale actually wrote you a letter

10:27

which he c-ceded to me saying

10:30

to you, will you not understand that the Democratic

10:32

Party, you've been a lifelong liberal. The last time

10:35

we talked, you said

10:37

you remained a liberal person or you remained

10:39

a person of the left. And he

10:41

was saying, he wanted to say

10:43

to you, do you not see that the

10:45

party that you belong to all these years is gone? Is

10:50

there something inherent in the philosophy of the left that leads

10:52

to this moment? I know we have anti-Semites on the right.

10:55

No way denied. We do kind of shovel them

10:57

off to the side. We do kind of reject

10:59

them. And look, Bill

11:02

Buckley did a great service to the

11:04

conservative movement when he

11:06

called out Pat Buchanan. And

11:09

he was one of the first to do that. And

11:11

I wish the Democrats would do that to the squad.

11:13

Look, I am a liberal,

11:15

a civil libertarian, a libertarian. I

11:18

have never been a person of the left. Now

11:21

I'm kind of, some of my

11:23

philosophy has been adopted by

11:25

the left. But they're mostly

11:27

libertarian philosophies. A woman should have

11:29

control over her body with abortion.

11:33

I don't believe that there

11:37

should be a constitutional right

11:39

to own atomic weapons and

11:41

cannons and AR. You

11:43

know, I do believe in

11:46

trying to create a safety

11:48

net for poor people when it comes to

11:50

medical care. So there are a few of

11:52

the philosophies I have that kind of are

11:55

the same as people on the left. But

11:57

I'm not, I've never been a person of

11:59

the left. I've always been. been an anti-communist,

12:01

anti-socialist. I was

12:03

a new dealer. I'm a Clinton

12:06

Democrat, a Ted Kennedy

12:08

Democrat, a Scoop Jackson Democrat. I've

12:10

never been a Bernie

12:13

Sanders Democrat. I can tell you the best

12:15

way to make me a Republican, nominate

12:18

Sanders to be president. I'll vote

12:20

against them. Nominate anybody in the

12:22

squad. I have offered to help

12:24

finance any candidate who runs

12:26

against anybody in the squad. By the

12:28

way, I will now extend that to

12:30

anybody who runs against Stephen Cohen,

12:33

the Jewish senator from,

12:36

I think, Tennessee, and Jamie

12:38

Raskin, my former student, the

12:40

congressman from Maryland. These

12:43

are people who use their Jewishness as

12:45

a cover, basically, to

12:47

call for a victory of Hamas.

12:49

They both call for ceasefires. Ceasefires

12:52

means a unilateral surrender.

12:55

It means that it'll happen again and again and

12:57

again. Don't believe me. That's what Hamas says. It'll

12:59

happen again and again and again because Hamas has

13:01

a strategy. It's worked. And why abandon it if

13:04

it's worked? Strategy is simple.

13:06

Fill as many Israeli and Jewish

13:08

civilians as you can. Know that

13:10

Israel will have to try to

13:12

take out your tunnels, your rockets,

13:14

and your commanders. So hide them

13:16

among civilians. Know that civilians

13:18

will die, not deliberately, but as

13:20

collateral damage. Be ready to carry

13:23

these dead babies out to CNN and The

13:25

New York Times. They will ignorantly

13:27

show the dead babies without explaining the

13:29

context. You know, it would be, here's

13:31

my analogy that I always use. I

13:33

decide to go rob a bank and

13:35

the police come in, and I'm

13:38

shooting the bank up. I'm killing tellers.

13:40

I'm killing customers. And I grab you

13:42

as a hostage. And I start shooting

13:45

from behind you. I'm continuing to kill

13:47

people. And the policemen try their best

13:49

to take aim to kill me, but

13:51

instead they accidentally kill you. Who

13:54

is legally responsible, morally

13:56

responsible, not the person

13:58

who pulled the trigger? and

14:00

who sent the bullet into the heart

14:02

of you, the victim. But me, I'm

14:04

the one who is responsible. I'm the

14:07

hostage taker. The analogy is perfect for

14:09

the IDF. The IDF tries

14:11

so hard to get only the

14:13

terrorist, but the terrorists use babies

14:16

as hostages. In my book, the

14:18

back cover, I don't know if

14:20

you can see clearly enough, back cover

14:22

shows a cartoon that I found

14:24

on the Internet. I don't know who did it.

14:26

I tried to trace it, but I couldn't find

14:29

who did it. It shows an Israeli soldier standing

14:33

in front of a baby carriage,

14:35

protecting the baby carriage, and

14:37

the Hamas fighter standing behind his

14:40

baby carriage, using the baby to

14:42

protect him. That's

14:44

been the common theme, and

14:48

that's going to continue because it

14:50

works. It's like the

14:53

shampoo bottle we all have.

14:55

Wash, rinse, repeat. That's

14:59

going to keep happening unless Hamas is

15:01

destroyed. There's one more myth. The

15:04

myth is you can't wipe out an ideology if

15:06

you kill its leaders. What

15:09

happened with Judaism? We killed

15:11

the leaders. We wiped out

15:13

the ideology. What happened to

15:15

Japanese imperialism? We killed and

15:17

imprisoned the leaders, and we

15:19

destroyed the philosophy and the

15:21

ideology, and the German people

15:24

and the Japanese people thanked us for

15:26

it. We rebuilt Germany

15:28

through the Marshall Plan. We rebuilt

15:31

Japan, and now they have become

15:33

our strongest allies. That could conceivably

15:36

happen in the Middle East

15:38

if Hamas is destroyed, and if

15:40

the people of Gaza allow the European

15:42

community in the United States to rebuild

15:44

it, like the Marshall Plan rebuilt

15:47

Germany, we could have an ally

15:49

there. Maybe they'd be an opportunity for

15:51

a two-state solution, which is very unlikely

15:53

under the current circumstances. The president of

15:55

Israel, Isaac Kurtzog, an old friend of

15:57

mine, who has Been a strong supporter of the Middle East. The

16:00

to say solution the other day announce

16:02

that this is not the time for

16:04

that. This is the time As greek

16:06

a crazy as he says everything the

16:08

sees. This. As the time for

16:11

destroying Hamas just as nineteen Forty Five

16:13

was the time for destroying Nazis and

16:15

the Marshall Plan comes after with your

16:17

you mention Bernie Sanders. But for for

16:19

me and I'm not trying to put

16:21

words in your mouth assist me speaking.

16:24

Block Obama was, I think, one

16:26

of the most sinister politicians we've

16:28

ever had any I believe, a

16:30

deep anti semite, a man who

16:33

actually thought that he would be

16:35

helping the situation in the Middle

16:37

East by strengthening around who as

16:39

you say, are the Nazis interests?

16:41

you know they're just nazis and

16:43

another in another form of dressed.

16:46

How do you feel about that? I'm

16:48

in New York excoriated Obama recently. It

16:50

seems to me that this is part

16:52

of a philosophy that he represents is

16:54

not just animus. it's not just personal

16:56

animus. He is actually it's or at

16:58

least the tool of a philosophy. Agree

17:01

with that guy. Looks used pointed me

17:03

enormous rates. I know I'm is Barry

17:05

Obama would he was a student at

17:07

Harvard. Nice area and from my office

17:09

life because. His mentor was Charles

17:12

Ogletree great great professor who recently died

17:14

so I got to know whom I

17:16

got. you know, Michelle Robinson who is

17:18

his wife. I didn't even know their

17:20

gotten married until I met them both

17:22

on the vineyard together. And I

17:24

you know he invited me to the

17:26

White house in the they'd be to

17:28

advance and I I i i thought.

17:31

I respected I'm I voted for him. Twice.

17:33

I'm proud of my first vote, Am ashamed

17:35

of my second vote. I. Could never

17:38

have voted for him for reelection. I should

17:40

vote for Mitt Romney Romney who's a much

17:42

more decent man arm and I wish I

17:44

had done that. But. I didn't. Arm

17:47

and see You know what? Was happy to

17:49

see a lot of Lewis's on his life.

17:51

One of them was the Reverend Wright who

17:53

was a vicious anti semite. But.

17:56

others were people who

17:58

like like minute who

18:01

was a great man, a Jew, a Democrat,

18:04

a liberal. And

18:06

he's been influenced by different people over

18:08

his lifetime and over different courses of

18:11

his life. He's done different

18:13

things. When he wanted to be president,

18:15

he emphasized the Newton Minow good part

18:17

of him and de-emphasized the Reverend Wright

18:19

bad part of him. I think once

18:22

he stopped being president, he's

18:24

turned into Reverend Wright in some ways. And

18:27

I don't admire him at all. I

18:29

think his second term was a disaster

18:31

in terms of foreign policy. He called

18:33

me into the Oval Office on the

18:35

eve of the election, the second election.

18:38

And he said to me, Allen, you've known me

18:40

for a long time. You know, I would never

18:42

deceive you. I have Israel's back. I

18:45

didn't realize he meant to pint the Target office.

18:47

And he was about to

18:49

leave office. He allowed the

18:51

United States to vote for a

18:54

resolution or abstain, but not veto

18:56

a resolution that declared the Western

18:58

wall to be occupied,

19:01

to unlawfully occupied territory, the

19:03

access roads to Tiber University,

19:05

Hadassah Hospital. And then

19:07

he made a statement more recently, the

19:10

one that caused me to really go

19:12

after him, in which

19:14

he basically compared what Hamas

19:16

did with Israel's

19:18

responses. And look, America's

19:20

responses were exactly what Israel's responses

19:22

were to 9-11. America

19:25

vowed to destroy Al-Qaeda and the

19:27

Taliban. And,

19:30

you know, we succeeded to a degree. And

19:33

many, many, many more civilians were

19:35

killed. And yet people

19:38

like Norman Finkelstein and others insist on

19:41

calling what Israel is doing genocide. By

19:43

doing that, they basically diminished

19:45

the meaning of genocide. Genocide was

19:47

a word coined by a Jewish

19:49

Polish lawyer in 1944 to describe

19:52

the Holocaust. And when you

19:54

say that Israel's actions in self-defense are

19:57

genocide, basically you're a Holocaust denier,

20:00

saying, oh, Israel is doing

20:02

the same what Nazi Germany did. So

20:04

they probably were not in the gas

20:06

chambers. There were no killing fields. There

20:08

were no six million Jews who were

20:11

killed. It's a form of Holocaust denial

20:13

to accuse Israel today of genocide. And

20:16

no decent person should do that. You

20:19

know, there's a lot of language like that accusing

20:22

Israel of apartheid, accusing them of

20:24

colonialism, which is kind of a

20:26

laugh. How

20:29

do you combat myths like that? It's

20:31

not easy because there has

20:33

never been a less well-educated

20:35

generation than the current

20:37

generation of college students. And

20:41

they did a survey. They

20:44

asked people who were protesting from the river

20:46

to the sea, Palestine will be free of

20:48

Jews. Palestine, from the river to the sea.

20:50

And they asked them what river, what sea?

20:52

They didn't know. They had no idea. These

20:55

are a bunch of ignoramuses and

20:58

useful idiots. They

21:00

just, if it's left, it must be correct.

21:03

If it's right, it must be wrong.

21:05

We'll follow you no matter where you

21:07

take us. And we now know that

21:09

a lot of these demonstrations were supported

21:12

by the former people who

21:14

were formerly known as communists. Now you can't

21:16

use that term anymore because you don't have

21:18

a government to back you up like

21:21

in Russia. But these are people from

21:23

the hard, hard Stalinists left that

21:26

are organizing these protests. They were the

21:28

people who organized Wall Street, Occupy Wall

21:30

Street. They were the

21:32

people who organized the

21:34

National Lawyers Guild. National Lawyers

21:37

Guild, on October 8th, the

21:39

blood wasn't even dry. It

21:42

said this was a glorious military operation

21:45

consistent with the rules of law, no

21:49

condemnation to this day of rape, of

21:51

beheadings, or anything like

21:53

that. And they

21:55

continue to blame Israel for

21:57

everything, just like the 33 groups at

21:59

Harvard. And then you have President

22:01

Gay of Harvard, whose

22:04

whole life has been based on the DEI

22:08

movement. And the DEI

22:11

movement just divides the world into

22:13

oppressors and oppressed and divides

22:16

university campuses along racial lines.

22:19

She may succeed in destroying a three

22:22

more hundred year, over 300

22:24

year legacy of Harvard. Harvard

22:27

is no longer a first grade institutional learning,

22:29

I have to tell you. It

22:32

has become a propaganda mill. You

22:34

can still get a good education if you

22:37

major in STEM, science, technology, engineering

22:39

and math. But don't go

22:41

near the political science department or the

22:43

history department, or

22:45

the college I went to, Brooklyn College, which used

22:47

to have a superb political science department. Today

22:50

it's absurd. We're a city college of New York

22:53

with the entire faculty of the law school,

22:55

not even a single percent. The entire faculty

22:57

of the law school voted to

22:59

divest and to boycott one

23:01

country of the world. No,

23:04

it wasn't Iran. No, it wasn't Cuba. No,

23:06

it wasn't China. It was Israel. And that's

23:08

the City University of New York Law School,

23:10

one of the worst law schools in the

23:12

country. But nonetheless, it has

23:14

the name City University. So people think

23:17

it's decent. And these

23:19

poor kids that go there aren't

23:21

being educated. They don't know anything

23:23

about criminal law, constitutional, or torts.

23:25

All they know is about colonialism

23:28

and settlers and that kind of nonsense.

23:30

It's not going to get them a job in a

23:32

good law firm. And if

23:34

you're represented by them or represented by anybody in

23:36

the National Lawyers Guild, you have to

23:38

ask yourself, do you really want to be

23:40

represented by somebody who's fourth right? Would you

23:42

be happy being represented by a member of

23:44

the Klan who supported lynchings? Because that's what

23:46

happened on October 7th. It

23:48

was a mass lynching of 1,200 Jews

23:51

and the mass kidnapping. And

23:54

there are great tragedies that resulted from

23:56

the family tragedies. And. The worst

23:58

tragedies also occurred in God. That because

24:00

they knew I'm I knew they were

24:02

signing to death sense of many many

24:04

guys and civilians when they initiated this

24:07

process by which they knew Israel would

24:09

have to respond and many guises will

24:11

die in the process. You and this

24:13

book was knocking on doors. Who is

24:15

about as a new book The War

24:17

Against the Jews The You and this

24:20

book or of with a description of

24:22

your meeting with doesn't the Bibi Netanyahu.

24:25

Before. This happened. Obviously there was

24:28

a big to do over an

24:30

attempt to reform the supreme court

24:32

which has a a lot more

24:34

power in Israel than our supreme

24:36

court even has here. sort of

24:38

all muscle random sour to strike

24:40

down was. A. Where

24:42

Where is the country now? I mean,

24:44

I guess that the two things I'm

24:46

wondering about as one. This is a

24:48

division. This political division. But.

24:51

Also the the idea that somehow the leadership

24:53

of the country allow this to happen of

24:56

the leaders of the country didn't see the

24:58

scalia or somebody is going be held to

25:00

account for. That's what it would you see

25:02

in the future for Israel. Well.

25:05

I had dinner with Vivian Sera Not to

25:07

know My wife and I. Ah, eight

25:09

days before this half of the Friday

25:11

nights. A week later, the

25:13

Saturday morning, this all happened. So it was.

25:16

you know, seven days in a few hours?

25:18

Earlier and we are three our dinner. And.

25:21

Much of it was devoted to the judicial

25:24

reform which was then in the news before

25:26

this happened. And. I have come up

25:28

with some ideas for compromise. And

25:30

the be seen to be accepting of

25:32

some of those ideas. And. I've

25:34

also been speaking. The people in the

25:36

last two were accepting. I've also speaking

25:39

to President as a curse or rather,

25:41

wait, who who read my book? Ask

25:43

your these events occur you so busy

25:45

but he read my book and gave

25:48

me an endorsement is always professors. was

25:50

presents a compelling case, defenses the state

25:52

of Israel and voices the truth about.

25:54

The. Atrocities that were committed out by

25:57

a monster to President Israel. Busy

25:59

guy. Rodent. It wasn't into

26:01

this book which I was so

26:03

proud of. I've known him for

26:05

a long, long long time. Look,

26:07

Israel never be the same. Netanyahu's

26:10

legacy will never be the same.

26:12

They will be a commission report

26:14

with former justices of the Supreme

26:16

court and slot machines with others

26:18

and heads of organizations that will

26:20

look as if. The. Two things

26:22

are One: Intelligence failure. Ah, any

26:24

country can have an intelligence failure.

26:26

But to me, the most bizarre

26:29

thing. Was. A

26:31

failure to response once

26:33

the horrors occurred. It's.

26:36

Footprint so many hours to get their

26:38

troops. Into the areas near Gaza.

26:40

I mean it was a general that

26:42

have retired general got a call from

26:44

his family's and were hiding out in

26:47

these terrorists. What did he do He

26:49

got into his car. With.

26:51

A gun. And he got down there.

26:53

Any shots? A terrorists and saves his family.

26:56

Before. The Israeli army to get

26:58

down there are having an ordinary car

27:00

slam into the helicopters. What happened to

27:02

the Jazz? What happened. You know

27:04

the the be operational failure.

27:07

Was. Even harder to explain in the intelligence

27:10

failure will hear a lot about that.

27:12

You'll be an honest report. And

27:14

it will change the careers of

27:16

many people. Just the way the

27:18

report have to this nice and seventy three

27:21

want change. The legacy of golden a

27:23

year will do. You Think that the Israelis

27:25

will defeat Hamas is in full. Destroy

27:27

him Us. I seek

27:29

they will. They will give

27:31

them a very very serious or

27:33

wound. I'm by on. Less

27:36

and if America left them alone

27:39

or another. Couple. Of months

27:41

I think they could destroy loss. But.

27:43

If America puts restrictions on them

27:45

and take solving went to ah

27:47

the Middle East to put restrictions

27:49

on or Israel. Then. To

27:52

seem to be harder, they'll be a partial victory. And

27:54

partial victory is not a rough. You. Need

27:56

a total the three measures of the United

27:58

States. Ah, England has decided to

28:01

have a cease fire is a ledger in

28:03

Berlin. Precision. Want to chill

28:05

too many German civilians? Hippo was so.

28:07

Of Satan Bauer. Hitler's.

28:10

Committed. Suicide only after it was

28:12

very clear. That. They'd be

28:14

as Churchill and And and Roosevelt

28:16

said. Total. Victory

28:18

Unconditional surrender. That's

28:21

what has happened with a mass and I'm afraid

28:23

the United states my not let them happens or

28:25

I might have fact I got the feeling be

28:27

be told him to and pounds. of

28:30

the blinking came back at a look

28:32

on his face like he been smashed

28:34

and you assume that down is. How

28:37

much the division say? Because you know.

28:40

The. United States nice to provide

28:42

weapons that is. There are two things

28:44

is so hypocritical. Member: when the I

28:46

say say they should use more smart

28:49

bombs will give them the smart bombs.

28:51

Right now there's sort of ammunition and

28:53

so they may I see who's done

28:56

bombs. Because. They don't have enough

28:58

smart bombs know the only thing that

29:00

sets me is that are now saying.

29:02

That. Bb nothing new provided

29:04

some was humanitarian aid. To. Gaza

29:07

in the run up to this war.

29:09

Now the claim is providing to little

29:11

humanitarian say You know when you're in

29:13

law in the in the crosshairs you

29:16

can do nothing right? And. Right

29:18

now, be in a situation with many

29:20

Israelis. Where. He can do nothing right?

29:23

But he can. He can redeem

29:25

his legacy. If he wins

29:27

this war and that's why. I.

29:30

Think Com or maybe

29:32

Tony Blinken. Very

29:34

happy and Jake Solomon are not very happy

29:36

with the be today. Or because

29:38

they're not helping. they're not

29:41

helping America or this administration

29:43

do everything it was. But

29:45

as a in the end

29:47

is Israel does manage to

29:49

defeat Hamas totally completely on

29:51

forever. The

29:53

happiest people will be this civilians in

29:55

Gaza. Next will be the Arab countries

29:58

around the Saudis and the and. and

30:01

the United States as well. So this is

30:03

an area where Bibi has to be churchilian

30:05

and has to really stand up

30:07

to the pressure and say, no, I'm

30:10

the prime minister of Israel. It's a sovereign

30:12

country. We love the United States. We appreciate

30:14

getting weapons, and we hope you continue

30:17

to send weapons, but we have to make

30:19

the decisions how many of our soldiers to sacrifice.

30:21

Just the other day, Israel allowed

30:24

nine of its, ten of its soldiers

30:26

to die instead of indiscriminately bombing. They

30:29

could have done the same thing from

30:31

the air, and that might have

30:33

killed more civilians. Instead, they send the soldiers and

30:35

the ten of them die. And then

30:37

even more recently, several

30:39

hostages were killed because Israel is

30:42

going on the ground and doing

30:44

it retail instead of wholesale, sacrificing

30:47

their own soldiers to save the

30:49

lives of civilians. That's

30:51

not genocide. That's decent.

30:54

I only have one more question. You can answer it

30:56

with one word if you want, but I have to

30:58

ask you this because you're one of the few liberals

31:00

who still talks to me. If it turns out to

31:02

be another Biden-Trump election, who do you vote for? I

31:06

don't think at the moment that I'm prepared to vote

31:08

for Trump. I think it would be a much harder

31:10

case for me if it were

31:14

Nikki Haley versus Biden.

31:18

And it depends on Biden's health. And

31:20

Biden is a kid. He's four years younger than

31:23

I am. I'm 85 and I'm doing well. I'm

31:26

hoping Biden has the strength to continue.

31:28

I think a lot

31:31

of Americans will also say, who's coming next?

31:33

If we vote for Biden, does that mean

31:35

that Kamala Harris becomes the next president,

31:37

either because Biden doesn't survive for four

31:39

years or because she's the designated

31:42

nominee? And if there's a choice

31:44

between Kamala Harris and Nikki

31:46

Haley, if Trump is smart enough to pick Haley

31:49

as his vice president, I think there'll

31:51

be a lot of votes for the vice

31:53

presidency, which almost never happens in American elections,

31:55

but it might happen this time. Alan

31:58

Dershowitz, the author of The War Against

32:00

the Jews. Thank you very much, Alan. It's good to see

32:02

you and I appreciate the time. Well, thank you for having

32:04

me on. I hope everybody buys my book and reads it.

32:07

All the money from it

32:09

goes to Hatzallah, an organization

32:11

in Israel that rescues people,

32:14

Arabs, Jews, Christians alike. So

32:16

please buy it and that

32:18

will make you give a contribution

32:21

to a wonderful Israeli organization. Thanks

32:24

a lot. Thank you. All right.

32:26

Thank you for joining me for the interview. I hope

32:28

you had a Merry Christmas and the Friday Andrew Klavine

32:31

show will be back this very Friday. I hope you'll

32:33

be there because I'll be there and I'll miss you

32:35

if you're not.