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today at Jeremy's razors.com. Hey,

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it's Andrew Klavan

0:15

with this week's

0:17

interview. Today

0:28

I'm interviewing David Mamet, and I want to

0:30

warn you before we start that I am

0:32

a fan. I was, you know, I love

0:34

the theater, and I was at one of

0:36

the early, the early production of Glengarry Glen

0:38

Ross. It opened in England, but I saw

0:40

its early American opening with Joe

0:43

Mantegna, Speed the Plow that had Madonna

0:45

in it, Ron Silver and Mantegna again.

0:48

Ollie Anna I saw in London. Just

0:50

terrific, terrific plays. He's also, of course,

0:52

a very accomplished screenwriter with two of

0:56

my favorite pictures, The Untouchables and The Verdict,

0:58

and he's a director as well with

1:00

House of Games. His new

1:02

book is about Hollywood. It's called Everywhere

1:04

an Oink Oink, an Embittered, Dispeptic, and

1:07

Accurate Report of 40 Years in Hollywood,

1:09

and I'm about 70, between

1:11

70 and 100 pages into it, and it's the

1:13

best of his books I've read. It is absolutely

1:16

hilarious, and I highly recommend it.

1:18

And just one other note, which is I have to

1:20

say I owe David personally, because

1:22

many years ago, maybe 20 years ago,

1:24

he wrote a piece that shocked the

1:26

literary world in The Village Voice announcing

1:28

that he was no longer a brain-dead

1:30

liberal, and this made me so delighted

1:33

that I wrote an op-ed in

1:35

the LA Times celebrating his decision,

1:37

and Andrew Breitbart, who I had never met,

1:39

called me up and said, you are the

1:41

only person in the conservative movement who knows

1:43

how important it is that David Mamet wrote

1:45

that column, and that was how Andrew and

1:47

I became friends. David, thank you so

1:49

much for coming on. It's a genuine pleasure to see you.

1:52

You're very welcome. Glad to be here. What's up? So,

1:54

I'm loving the book. The book is really hilarious,

1:56

but before I get to that, I do want

1:58

to ask you, back and ask

2:00

you, what was it that woke you up to leftist?

2:02

And what wasn't the change to your mind? Well,

2:06

it was the leftists that woke me up because

2:08

I, at

2:10

that point, whatever the hell that

2:13

was, my rabbi was saying, we

2:15

have to have political civility. He

2:17

says, it's more important than anything. He

2:19

says, we live in a

2:21

democracy, people have different fears. If they didn't

2:24

have different fears, we would live in a

2:26

dictatorship. They have different

2:28

views and we adjudicate them right

2:30

electoral process. He says, we

2:32

have to be civil. And he said that

2:34

the... Here's what the Jewish

2:37

idea of political civility is. I state

2:42

your position such that you

2:44

say, yes, that is my position. You

2:47

state my position such that I say,

2:50

yes, that is my position. Now our

2:52

positions are clear. We understand that. Now

2:55

we proceed to facts. We

2:57

say, okay, since we each have stated

2:59

each other's position, we know where we

3:03

stand. Let's bring forward facts. Do we agree

3:05

that this is a fact? Yes. Okay. That's

3:07

the basis for discussion. Do we not agree

3:09

that this is a fact? No, that that's

3:12

off the table. So the only things

3:14

we bring up that discussion are things which we

3:17

communally assent to

3:19

as being a

3:21

fact. Now we

3:23

can discuss the facts, right?

3:25

We've met upon the level and we're going

3:27

to put on the square. I want to

3:29

discuss the fact that's called political civility. So

3:32

I wrote an article for the LA Times,

3:34

a check that, and that was for a

3:36

newspaper actually. It was for the... a bunch

3:39

of boys, called political civility.

3:42

And as part of article, I

3:44

said, you know, I'm not even civil to

3:46

myself. I said, for years

3:48

I've been referring to myself as a

3:50

brain dead liberal. That's in civility. My

3:52

position is my own. I'm entitled to

3:54

it. I'd often beat myself up. So

3:58

the village boys takes this article. And

4:00

there's a stereo takes up the whole

4:02

front page. Why I have no longer

4:04

a brain dead liberal. So.

4:07

At that point. The

4:10

people I thought were. My. Friends to

4:12

do acquaintances with pupils I got

4:14

my queen sister did to enemies

4:17

right? And. My enemies to

4:19

the defense sound. I realize that

4:21

we're that we're in a huge

4:23

of a political crisis in this

4:26

country which threatens the very entanglements

4:28

if I max American democracy and

4:30

they said you know Thanks Mom.

4:35

Does just one thing He is. So.

4:41

That was the beginning of I had to look of

4:43

unsafe. Payments Oh wait a

4:45

second, How long has this been going

4:47

on? right? It's

4:50

like Sarah so much he got kicked to

4:52

the curb and she's super so I can

4:54

report for always up for putting on black

4:56

face and she was six years old when

4:58

she went week we've we've it's my own

5:00

party. Thirty kids

5:02

kicked me out. And. I got will serve as

5:05

you know. Welcome to the World

5:07

Report Just get keyboard cat kick you off

5:09

because not the to love to support your

5:11

fascism and they are you going to have

5:14

to a sign on to absolutely. Require

5:17

position. Where you out?

5:21

And. Soy. Settle? Okay, I.

5:23

Get it? Right I understand

5:25

your our read the torah I read

5:28

history of these things happen site it's

5:30

called the the death of a civilization

5:32

and the necessity to stand up. right?

5:35

So. That point I

5:37

go kicking and screaming. Yeah, Fan.

5:40

Of Moses went kicking and screaming.

5:42

Chooses when kicking and screaming right?

5:44

Everybody would kicking and screaming get

5:47

a little except for auto. put

5:49

his hand on duty, the poetry

5:51

and you know you get away

5:53

from me probably someone said was.

5:57

To you told me why we were at a dinner. Breitbart

6:00

dinner in Hollywood and you told me that

6:02

after this happened, the New York Times showed

6:04

up at your next play and gave you

6:07

a bad review. Twice as hell you assess

6:09

sneakers that has any of that gotten any

6:11

better? Most. Of

6:14

the zebra speak English from north was

6:16

of the New York Times it is

6:18

der Sturmer. right? It is.

6:20

It's it's it's the house organ of Fascism.

6:23

It also it's so. but to be York

6:25

Times was the torah of my Jewish. You

6:27

yes of a British Jewish year with my

6:30

way to put on a board meeting or

6:32

times It was the voice of reason. It

6:34

was the voice of a lot of true

6:37

liberal liberality, was the voice of culture. And

6:39

it may have been that to a certain

6:41

extent that one point were slaughtered in one.

6:44

So I brought this to this

6:46

hysterically funny play. Nathan Lane Stouts

6:48

been called the Bamber. About

6:50

a president. Was that the

6:53

lowest approval rating? Skyn Histories.

6:55

And he's running for office would amount

6:57

of money so it's almost thanksgiving of

6:59

they come to say well give you

7:02

a hundred thousand dollars to Turkey he

7:04

whispered into turkey a bigger and he

7:06

says what this year they helps they

7:08

have to Turkey's because Leicester to Turkey

7:10

got sectors of mentor can alternate targets

7:12

he says well. Then the.

7:15

The. Gonna get two hundred thousand dollars frequent

7:17

turkey as the going price sort of.

7:19

Turkey guy shows up and President says

7:21

welcome to the gonna have to pay

7:23

me two hundred thousand dollars and a

7:25

Turkish as the heck with you. Is

7:27

this your? Your numbers are lower than

7:29

counties cholesterol your bullshit. We can always

7:32

get what we don't drill sort of.

7:34

President gets mad. he says. He

7:37

says i want a hundred million dollars on we.

7:40

Played. By breakfast tomorrow on

7:42

when apart every turkey of

7:44

United States sort of places

7:46

our to be funny. Nathan

7:48

Lane gives the best performance

7:50

over. And own.

7:53

It's curiously a political.

7:55

It's a player. But

7:57

politicians rooted that about

7:59

politics. The

8:01

New York Times cups of this terrible, terrible

8:03

review. And then the the Thing

8:05

comes out of the Village Voice and they come back

8:07

the next week to Given to People Course. And

8:12

civil just to make sure you understood her.

8:15

Yeah so oh okay.

8:17

In a let's give it as we

8:20

used to say, give it a day

8:22

what's going on here? So that was

8:24

my beginning of a little bit of

8:26

a i'm a political awakening. And.

8:30

As. I say you know if. I. Went:

8:32

kittens don't want to go a cinema. have been

8:35

a good time. Gonna stick in a couple of

8:37

bucks look at a nice wasting family like that,

8:39

but I really don't want to go around to

8:41

be. But he hated me. But then I remembered.

8:44

You know my dad was and the armies

8:46

are more work to my grandfather's in the

8:48

navy during world war One. My

8:51

good at My Grandpa was an immigrant my dad

8:53

was born, went off the boat. The

8:55

American System. Allowed them

8:58

to thrive, And. My question

9:00

was what did I ever get back

9:02

United States of America? The answer is

9:04

there not And I wrote place for

9:06

within the baba bump. It's my responsibility.

9:09

A question was was gonna build the

9:12

cat fight. On. The So

9:14

that's a question of them. But. That.

9:16

Doesn't matter. Moral question on a

9:18

surgeon on the Big Fat Center?

9:21

Sure I am. Bright spot on

9:23

somebody's gotta build a cat and

9:25

I've been mouthing off. Putting.

9:27

Off for all these years. About this about

9:30

the next thing. I

9:32

guess you're to make. So.

9:37

I hope I too. Have been

9:39

to whatever extent the filling my

9:42

responsibility serve as a great better

9:44

to see arrogance of american democracy

9:46

which is the save the sacrifices.

9:48

Of men and women over two hundred fifty

9:51

years, and especially of my grandparents who came

9:53

here. Not speak the

9:55

language with noted. And

9:57

here I am. Do do still.

10:00

Get bad reviews all the time. Where do

10:02

you can you get around? that will be.

10:04

I have read reviews for your life your

10:06

motives as like of of how many bites

10:08

of tainted fish do you need. Of.

10:12

So and somebody somewhere that favors because

10:14

I just learned this. Somebody.

10:16

Said this to me to go to bed. He.

10:18

Said. Other people's opinions.

10:21

Are none of your business. Of

10:24

Officer Ohms wisdom. Yeah, I like

10:26

it. So the book everywhere. annoying

10:28

points and embittered despotic. an accurate

10:31

reporter forty years in Hollywood is

10:33

in fact an embittered into spectacle

10:36

report and absolutely hilarious. But I

10:38

couldn't help thinking i mean, you

10:40

heard of actually a Hollywood group.

10:44

Why? You undeterred and despite. The. I'm

10:47

actually not. if you read the book is

10:49

full of of it's It's nothing but gags

10:52

as welcome but cartoons by makes the best

10:54

know Hollywood Donald be nothing. Right

10:56

up my career and Hollywood

10:59

and spoon the ability to.

11:03

Make. Movies For a despot, it's

11:05

like a crystal said. the battle

11:08

was the payoff. Well. Fingers

11:10

or more were terms of battles

11:12

the pay off but had a

11:14

great time right now is one

11:16

of the wonderful things but actually

11:18

being in the movie projects business

11:20

which is at to say actually

11:22

making movies with your writing bumps,

11:24

directing them or costs to make

11:26

them over or or in preproduction

11:28

is of. You. Get to

11:30

hate of people in the suits because

11:32

they have no ideas. And as I

11:34

say of the book, you know God

11:36

put them on the earth. So obviously

11:38

it's on. Put them here for a

11:41

reason. I I would wish that the

11:43

recent wasn't beat of my strokes, but.

11:47

The thing about making a movie is.

11:49

You need an idea and a camera? That's all

11:51

you need. you can make a movie on. If

11:53

you got an idea, where do you the or

11:56

not, you can make a movie on a swivel

11:58

I phone which is it. If

12:00

you'd have a great idea know which are doing

12:02

can be as good as Lawrence of Arabia. That's

12:05

all you need. The people may do

12:07

the original films. They didn't have

12:09

technology that was near this good. right?

12:12

That we have in our

12:14

pocket was on the conservative

12:16

side with people realize this

12:18

the Hollywood like any organism.

12:21

What's. An organism's best trick. You know

12:23

what it is. Reproduction

12:25

and. Die. Disney.

12:28

Of the yeah for some organisms below

12:30

the organisms or one trick pony gonna

12:33

we look at the mayfly your we

12:35

look at the black widows voters in

12:37

a we reproduce entire island make make

12:39

room for new life watch or that

12:41

guess the cells in her body. For.

12:44

That is. The States

12:46

of America. Or. That is,

12:49

I'm the movie business so.

12:51

The. Cause of all. Of.

12:54

Whom is a bust. And

12:56

caused a bus as a book. right?

12:59

Elevator. Operators are dealing and stocks

13:01

and nineteen twenty nine some biscuits. Are

13:03

you rich or stock market's going to

13:06

crash so deep deep the movie business

13:08

became so incredibly powerful that that such

13:10

a a monopoly on our on our

13:12

on our attention that we get the

13:15

tale of start wagging the dog and

13:17

the bureaucrats started saying on the subject

13:19

the bureaucrats with their just like and

13:21

good with keep their jobs just to

13:24

to to to browbeat them and few

13:26

years and and fence offensive just the

13:28

ass of disappears. For your quest

13:30

to wait forever, the supposed

13:32

to. A. Point of

13:35

the organization is ancillary

13:37

white. House

13:43

Bill. For

13:45

cared about the United States, the join

13:47

the military yellow get a job. So

13:49

similarly in the movie Business. But.

13:51

Bureaucrats who. the

13:54

to parking lots huge parking lots although

13:56

to los angeles was parking lots used

13:58

to be the best lots of

14:00

the studios. The back lots were where

14:02

they made bunches of movies. They made

14:04

so many movies that they just had

14:06

a standing set of a cowboy town,

14:09

of a New England

14:11

village, of a French cathedral.

14:13

They just turned out the

14:15

movies. Now those back lots

14:17

are parking lots, right?

14:20

The bureaucrats. We

14:22

spawn bureaucrats, you know? They're like cockroaches. They

14:24

give birth to their kind.

14:26

And then their turn lights

14:28

in the house. So

14:31

there are people on the other side, just wait a

14:33

second. Duh! Technology has

14:36

changed again. Just

14:38

like technology changed and

14:40

movies wiped out Vaudeville.

14:43

And just like technology changed and

14:45

TV wiped out radio. So technology

14:47

has changed. And you

14:49

can download your product. You

14:51

don't have to go through the studios. You

14:54

can download your product directly.

14:57

For example, some conservatives made

14:59

a movie about Jesus with Jim Caviezel, right?

15:01

Made a lot of money. So they said,

15:03

oh, we'll make another movie. So they made

15:05

a movie with Jim Caviezel called Sound

15:08

of Freedom, right? It's a very, very

15:10

good movie, but it's a straight up.

15:13

They kidnapped this little girl, I guess

15:15

a police officer had to get her

15:17

back. There's nothing particularly conservative about the

15:19

movie at all. It's just a damn

15:21

good movie. But what's particularly conservative is

15:23

the audience who said, Lord have

15:25

mercy. I love that movie about Jesus. I'm going

15:28

to see what you do next. They made it

15:30

for $20 million. They made a half a billion

15:33

dollars. There's a huge audience out

15:35

there that's just habit with

15:37

this woke garbage. Nobody enjoys

15:40

that stuff. I think

15:42

we watch it when it's down there because we

15:44

have no choice, right? What's our

15:46

choice? Oh, black people who realize that

15:48

white people will finally, finally come to

15:51

realize that black people are people too.

15:53

Or straight people who finally finally come

15:55

to realize that transsexuals are people too.

16:03

Nobody goes to see these movies on

16:06

purpose because they just aren't enjoyable. So

16:08

what everybody is the smart

16:11

people are realizing is people want to

16:13

hear stories. Whether

16:15

there's liberal or conservative, they make any difference.

16:17

You tell them a good story, they'll show

16:19

up. So what the smart

16:21

people are doing is saying to hell with

16:23

the New York Times, right? And to hell

16:26

with Warner Brothers and Disney. It's bad. It's

16:28

just better than it sticks. Let's

16:31

have some along and maybe in the process

16:34

we'll do some good by pleasing people and

16:36

maybe in that process we'll make a couple

16:38

of bucks. What could be better? That

16:41

does seem to be happening. But you

16:43

have a line in the book, Everywhere Annoying

16:45

Coin. You have the line that

16:48

really struck me because conservatives complain about all

16:50

the things you're talking about. The wokeness and

16:52

the bad values and all this stuff, the

16:54

anti-religious values. They complain about all this. I'm

16:56

going to have this line and I'm going

16:58

to read it slightly edited so

17:00

people get it. It says, the

17:03

movies today are made and advertised. Not

17:05

to excite the natural thirst for adventure

17:08

and novelty, but to satisfy the

17:10

human desire for conformity. They are no

17:12

longer in the service of Eros. I

17:15

thought that was like really on

17:18

point, incredibly specific. Can

17:20

you explain to me how you write a

17:22

story that satisfies the

17:24

human desire for conformity, what that looks like?

17:28

Oh, when you decide that, sorry, that

17:30

satisfies the human desire for conformity. Yeah,

17:33

how do you know? Yeah, what you're

17:35

doing. Look, it's possible to make

17:37

wonderful films in the service of

17:40

fascism. Many reasons, they'll certainly

17:42

get it. She

17:45

was like the prime example of a genius

17:47

who turned her genius to evil. There's

17:50

also the Soviet tradition

17:52

of me and my tractor.

17:56

I am in love with my tractor. I am in

17:58

love with my tractor family. Oh my goodness. There's

18:00

a bad worker who's not working as

18:02

hard as he should. Doesn't he realize

18:04

these tractors? You

18:06

can't do the week to feel I will

18:09

help him I will bring him

18:11

to a sense of his his own worth and

18:13

his own worth comes through service What

18:15

nonsense listen if you?

18:19

The worth of the story is the

18:22

same as the worth of a joke

18:24

told at the bar Or a

18:26

story told to a kid at men

18:28

time right it taps into the

18:30

deepest human desire to share an experience

18:34

that's not rational Right

18:38

that some people used to call it religion right,

18:41

but the same thing is the same

18:43

joke is not rational, but it's true

18:47

Here's the difference right Penguin

18:50

and non-analectopus walk into a bar,

18:52

okay Right so

18:55

now you're listening Yeah,

18:58

yeah, tell me it's not rational, but you

19:01

say I get it something interesting

19:03

is going to happen That's going

19:05

to reveal something to me. I put myself

19:07

in this guy's hands right. It's

19:10

not rational It's

19:12

true. Just like the Bible right

19:14

well people say well wait a second wait a

19:16

second You're telling me that this

19:18

quote supreme being actually parted the Red

19:21

Sea You can't

19:23

part the Red Sea was I can't do that see

19:25

right guy can part the right see no I don't

19:27

believe it. I don't believe you can part the Red

19:29

Sea I said okay You don't

19:31

believe you can part the Red Sea But you believe

19:34

that the solar ice caps are melting and so the

19:36

world going to both freeze the death and burn to

19:38

a cinder Same time

19:40

how does that work right? We're

19:43

deeply irrational people and what drama

19:45

does and what humor does especially

19:47

is it allows us to enjoy

19:49

our order Rationality and saying I

19:52

guess I wow you know

19:54

we're all we're all here together Right

19:57

with the craziest monkeys that ever lived we're all

19:59

here together So we

20:02

see Helmut and they say, oh my God,

20:04

it's those ghosts running around. It's those ghosts

20:06

running around. People don't say, excuse me, ghosts

20:08

don't exist. They say,

20:11

yeah, I want to watch that story.

20:13

And because we're taken out of ourselves,

20:16

we enjoy the story and we're moved to

20:18

laughter at tears. Right? But

20:20

the wokeness puts us right back

20:22

on ourselves. So yes,

20:24

I agree on that. They

20:27

puff up their chest

20:29

and they leave, yes,

20:31

God, I understand

20:33

that those people are people too

20:35

and the bad, bad people, the

20:38

haters, bibbidi-bobbidi-boo. What

20:41

nonsense. But you could, a

20:44

joke at a bar where people shoot

20:46

in a breeze or go into an

20:48

AA meeting or something like that, they're

20:50

sharing their humanity, which is so far

20:52

beyond and so much more important than

20:54

their political position. Okay,

20:57

I get it. Beam.

21:00

I love this stuff. The beam's

21:02

dream powder contains a powerful all natural blend

21:04

of ingredients, including magnesium L-theanine. But I don't

21:06

care either. I just know that it puts

21:09

me to sleep. It's not just your run

21:11

of the mill sleep aid. It's a concoction

21:13

carefully crafted to help you slip into the

21:15

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know, I know what you're saying. You're saying

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I can spell beam, but Clavin, how do

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you spell Clavin? K-L-A-V-A-N. I'll give you a

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hint. No E's in Clavin.

22:24

You have to ask some gossip questions.

22:26

I mean, you worked on The Untouchables,

22:28

just a terrific movie. You're working

22:30

with Sean Connery, a great

22:34

cast. Was

22:37

that your first movie or was it House of Cards? I can't remember.

22:40

The first movie I wrote was The Postman

22:42

Always Dreams Story. The Postman Always Dreams Story.

22:45

For Jack Nicholson. So how

22:47

was the experience of doing The Untouchables?

22:51

It was great. I wrote it and

22:53

they took it away and they

22:55

made the movie. And that's

22:57

generally been my experience of working on a movie.

23:00

I write them a draft and either they say

23:02

once in a while they say thank you or

23:05

they generally say this is what you were

23:07

expecting. And I say, that's

23:09

why you're paying me, you idiot. This was what you

23:11

expected. You could have. Right? I

23:13

went around with Harvey Weinstein at

23:16

one point and he wanted

23:18

me to write something for

23:23

him. I met with him a

23:25

few times and he said, okay. I said,

23:27

well, okay. Now it's time for the

23:29

meter to drop. You want to engage

23:32

me. Talk

23:34

to my people and I'll write you

23:36

an outline. He said, well,

23:39

you want me to pay? He says, you

23:41

want me to pay you before you write the outline?

23:44

I say, yes,

23:47

because that's the deal. He

23:50

says, well, what if

23:52

I don't like the outline? I

23:54

said, well, I'm going to do the

23:56

best job I can. You know who I am. You've seen my

23:59

work. You're

24:01

capable of making a decision. You might be

24:03

right or you might be wrong. But

24:06

you can, I would think, reasonably

24:09

conclude that you could trust me to

24:11

do the best I can. And

24:14

that's what you're paying me for. He

24:17

says, yes, but what if

24:19

you don't do the best you can? I

24:22

said, well, so what you're saying

24:24

is you think I'm the thief. He

24:28

kind of made a noise like, well,

24:30

I said, well, you're right to

24:33

f***ing help, lads. Because

24:37

that's the only important word that really was known,

24:39

right? Because

24:41

what you're going to do right down

24:43

the line is negotiate a contract, right?

24:46

Which from my point of view is a

24:50

pledge for specific performance. And

24:53

from the point of view of the studios

24:55

is the worst case scenario. Because

24:58

what's going to happen is they don't

25:00

care about the contract. They're going to

25:02

say, oh, okay, you're a human being.

25:05

And I have 25 lawyers each

25:07

paying a half million dollars to here. But if I'm

25:09

me, would you like to sue me? The

25:12

answer is a bitter

25:16

experience. No. So

25:18

what's going to happen is if you have a long

25:20

career in the Hollywood in the old days, you're

25:22

going to get screwed, blued, and tattooed, right? If

25:24

you're a young person, if you're either sex, people are

25:27

either going to try to get you into bed or

25:29

get you into bed, right? People

25:31

are going to try to get as much work as they can

25:33

out of you for nothing. They're going to lie to you. It's

25:36

a tough business. Once in a while,

25:38

you're going to meet magnificent people, right? Who

25:40

say thank you and who you would die for,

25:42

right? Because they treat you

25:44

with respect, right? That's

25:47

going to be a rare occurrence. That may be a

25:49

rare occurrence in any business. But

25:51

to have a situation

25:54

beyond that, which is actually

25:56

not transactional, which is, I

25:58

say, of course, you need to get paid. of course I

26:00

need to script really soon and enjoy working

26:02

with you. That's worth anything.

26:05

But they're actually good. Are

26:08

there movies that you have written but not

26:10

directed that you think are really good? That's

26:14

a very good question. Yeah, I thought Ronin

26:16

was a wonderful movie. I thought Edge was

26:18

a wonderful movie. There's a bunch of movies

26:20

that I directed that I didn't, that I

26:22

wrote that I didn't direct that I thought

26:25

were pretty good. Ben Gary Glen

26:27

Ross was a superb movie. Jamie Foley directed

26:29

that. There's

26:31

a bunch of them. But not

26:33

the verdict and the untouchables? I

26:37

loved them too.

26:39

They were right.

26:42

One of the wonderful things about having

26:44

an over-long career, anything,

26:47

especially in show business, is people come up to

26:49

you and they nod and they say, you

26:52

know what the best thing you ever wrote is, don't you?

26:54

And they say, yeah,

26:56

the first thing I wrote, tell

26:58

me. The first thing you wrote.

27:00

I say, yeah, well,

27:02

thank you. So I guess I've just

27:05

been taking up electricity since then. Thank

27:07

you very, very much. So that's the

27:09

thing about reviews. The

27:13

good ones are as horrible as the bad ones. The

27:16

bad ones are destructive if you read

27:18

them and the good ones are destructive

27:20

if you read them. And

27:22

anybody you meet who comes up to

27:24

you, anything past I

27:27

enjoy your work, is likely

27:30

to transgress

27:33

the Jewish restriction

27:37

on flattery. Because they all hold the right

27:39

ways on flattery. What

27:42

does that mean? Oh, if I flatter someone.

27:45

That means that I'm trying to get

27:47

something from them but I wouldn't get

27:49

an un-elected interchange. Even

27:52

if that's to make them feel better, it's my

27:55

job to make them feel better. So we say,

27:57

keep your mouth closed. Right?

28:00

Yeah.

28:02

So I'm

28:04

a big theater fan, although I don't think I've

28:06

seen anything really good in the theater for quite

28:09

some time. Will you go back

28:11

to the theater? Will you write for the theater again? I'm

28:14

writing for the theater all the time. I

28:16

did a play that I really loved just

28:18

before COVID called the Christopher Boyce Communion. And

28:21

we did that in a small theater out here.

28:24

And then during the strike, you got

28:26

to love these people, right? They went

28:28

on strike in my friend, Marjorie Lewis

28:30

Ryan, who directed a lot of my

28:33

work, terrific director, says, let's

28:35

do a play. You got anything you have?

28:37

So I had this play I wrote called

28:39

Henry Johnson, and it was sitting around

28:41

and I sent it to her. She said, yeah, let's do

28:43

it. So I called up a whole bunch of

28:45

people who I knew, you know, Dominic

28:47

Hoffman and Chris Bauer and David

28:49

Pamer and Shyle Aboff. And so

28:52

we did the play and it

28:54

was really, I loved it. She

28:56

directed it. And at the end

28:58

of the limited run, it

29:00

was Shire and Evan Johnakite who

29:03

was playing Henry

29:05

Johnson, who's also my son-in-law, my

29:08

beloved son-in-law, who's my daughter Sasha's

29:10

husband. He said, let's do a

29:12

movie. I said, well,

29:15

yeah, okay, well, you're going to get the movie. And

29:17

he says, we'll do it for nothing. And they

29:19

just made a movie, Shire just made a

29:21

movie called a Peanut Butter

29:24

physical, a really good movie. They made that

29:26

movie for a shoot change because you don't need a

29:28

lot of money to make a movie, right? You need

29:31

a camera and you need to know

29:33

what you're doing. So

29:36

I said, well, gosh, you know, where can I

29:38

get the money? I don't know. He says, the guy who funded

29:41

this thing, he made 25 grand. We'll

29:43

reach out, we'll get the money, we'll go together. So

29:45

we made the movie. And I'm

29:47

really, really happy with the movie. And I'm

29:49

just finishing cutting it now. And we're

29:52

going to take it to Cannes. And

29:56

I realized, you know, it's time to stop,

29:58

to get out of my COVID. the

30:03

country's dying head and go back

30:05

to work because I can't work

30:07

in the studio system anymore

30:09

because, hey, they don't want me and be

30:12

more informed. I don't want them. My field

30:14

has always been, you know, give me a

30:16

lot of money, leave it alone and you're

30:18

free to hate it or give me a

30:21

little bit of money, leave it alone. And

30:23

those experiences are even more fun. So

30:25

I said, wait a second, we'll make this movie in

30:27

a short amount of time for nothing. I got a

30:30

million of them. I got to stack this high of

30:32

stuff that I haven't done. So I'm looking

30:34

forward to God willing and what they're permitting

30:36

to do in a lot of movies. And

30:39

so these

30:41

guys who did The Sound of Freedom, they

30:44

came to me and they said, do you want to write

30:46

a movie for us? I said, yeah, sure.

30:48

What do you got? They said

30:50

they wanted to do a movie about Hunter Biden. So

30:53

I thought about it for a

30:56

while and I said, okay.

30:59

They said, but here's what?

31:02

I said, you know, you're going to pay me a couple

31:04

of bucks, nothing much. Maybe

31:07

a back end, haha. But the

31:09

deal is you give me half of that couple of

31:12

bucks now. I give you a half, you give

31:14

me the half of the other couple of bucks when I hand you

31:16

the script and we're done. I'm

31:19

not going to call him Hunter Biden and

31:21

it's not going to be a travelogue because

31:23

the hardest, the hardest, the

31:26

most challenging form of drama is

31:28

biography. Because of course

31:30

you have to show George Washington champion

31:32

out of territory, right?

31:34

But you also have to show him taking

31:36

his leave of the troops or

31:39

crossing the Delaware or Valley Forge, blah, blah,

31:41

blah, blah, blah. Now you're making a travelogue,

31:44

right? So I've written a few biographies

31:46

as dramas. You have to

31:48

get inside and say, what don't have

31:51

people know? So

31:53

Hitchcock said that you're going to Paris, for

31:55

God's sake show them the Eiffel Tower, right?

31:57

But after you show them the Eiffel Tower, you're doing it. The

32:00

on. Where you're not was the oh

32:02

look. There's. The Mandalay who visit

32:04

the boy was scribble new to look

32:06

at. all the most people would the

32:08

braves the little moments of thing you're

32:10

going most of your mistress it's it.

32:12

might with forty three must be French

32:15

people. Play. So the question

32:17

is. If it's. Not

32:21

interesting. It doesn't

32:23

matter if it's Hunter Biden

32:25

and if it is interesting.

32:28

It doesn't matter if it's and two

32:30

titans. People.

32:32

Don't can I find me

32:34

personally But wake of which

32:36

Salish deals playing Mrs. Lincoln's

32:38

Servicemen a do So is

32:40

it does slavery. Thanks. Have

32:43

a set of. I saw a movie

32:46

or yeah so there was a book

32:48

the John Steinbeck Local Barber about how

32:50

great it was to be a bomber

32:52

pilot about the gates wasn't the bomber

32:54

pilot was the bombardiers. On. On

32:57

on the heavier placed. On.

32:59

Becoming way. Wherever. He said

33:01

I would. I would. I would

33:03

have rather cook my own of us. And

33:06

have written that. So

33:08

that's what I saw about that. but the wake of

33:11

thing. I

33:13

gonna stop by the bucket of authors David

33:15

Mamet of course. The book is everywhere. An

33:17

oink, oink and embittered despotic. An accurate reporting

33:19

forty years and Hollywood's it is making me

33:21

laugh out loud repeatedly is great, state has

33:23

great talking to you and I really look

33:25

forward to it. Was going. Thank.

33:27

You so much Thanks a lot. You Manage

33:30

is really a an American original. Terrific play

33:32

right? I think some of his movies are

33:34

really really good and this book should definitely

33:36

get it everywhere. and wink wink and embittered

33:39

to stuff to Can Accurate Reporting or forty

33:41

Years and Hollywood And you should definitely tune

33:43

in on Friday for the and reclaiming show

33:45

What else you will be Claim was in

33:48

the same fate worse than being Claimants and

33:50

I will see you there. you