0:07

Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the art of Manliness podcast.

0:10

And when it comes to losing weight, you can find plenty of complicated programs that involve long, intense workouts and strict calorie counting diet plans.

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But my guest today takes an approach to fat loss.

0:19

That's awesomely simple, even more effective because of that fact, his name is Dan John.

0:23

He's a strength coach, the competitive thrower and weightlifter, and the author of many books about health and fitness, including fat loss starts on Monday.

0:29

Tell you on the show, Dan talks about the importance of not only picking a specific number of where you want your weight to be, but enriching that goal.

0:36

So that lights up multiple parts of your brain.

0:38

We then discuss how and how often to measure your weight, how to deal with the setbacks as you shed the pounds.

0:42

And Dan's uncomplicated approach to eating.

0:44

Dan also explains why he recommends drinking hot water with lemon, practicing intermittent, fasting, and working out in a fasted state.

0:51

We then go over the easy strength exercise program you suggest for fat loss and why these short weightlifting sessions always are followed by a walk and winter conversation with how to break through a weight loss plateau by doing something called reverse rucking.

1:02

After the show's over check out our show notes at aom.io/fat loss.

1:06

All

1:06

right,

1:06

Dan,

1:06

John,

1:06

welcome

1:06

back

1:06

to

1:06

the

1:22

show. Hey, well, thanks so much.

1:24

I, you know, like I've told you before, I love your site.

1:27

My friend Gabriel Cosmo uses your site with his students because he thinks that there's some gaps in modern education, which I agree with.

1:37

And I, man, I watched his drop some things out of teaching.

1:41

It was like, okay, great.

1:42

I guess we were reacting were, but there were some things or some fundamentals I still think we need to deal with.

1:50

Well, well, I'm glad, thanks so much. I'm glad that the site's been useful for you and for folks, you know, I wanted to bring you back on the podcast.

1:56

It's always a pleasure to talk to you. We had you on last year to talk about benchmarks, physical benchmarks, every man should strive for, wanted to bring you back cause it's new year.

2:05

And I know a lot of men who are listening are setting goals.

2:08

And one of the goals, some of these guys are probably setting is to lose some weight this year.

2:12

And a lot of these guys who are making this goal have likely had this goal in years past, but they've failed.

2:18

I'm curious in your experience as a coach and working with people, trying to with body composition, body fat, losing body fat, what's the thing that holds people back from losing weight.

2:31

What have you seen the most common roadblocks?

2:34

Well, first off I have to take a shout out to both Earl Nightingale and Derek Sivers for this little tool I use it's called it's called the two number goal sheet.

2:45

And the idea is very simple is you find two numbers that are important to you.

2:51

Now let's just focus on, let's just focus on what you're asking.

2:55

Now. I use a physical goal, which is for year, will be body weight and like a financial goal, but it can be, I mean, you could, it could be anything.

3:03

I think a number helps because it's so clear cut.

3:07

Like if you have this vague, I, if, if I was to say to you, Hey, you know, I want to lose a few pounds.

3:12

W that that's just, that just floats off course.

3:16

I can say that I, I push air past my vocal chords.

3:20

I didn't say anything.

3:21

You know, so I have a goal this year.

3:24

In fact, it's coming up. The date that it's due is going to be February 12th.

3:28

I want to get down to 211 pounds, which is 96 kilos.

3:32

So at the start of last year, I weighed 2 51.

3:36

So it's going to be a 40 pound body weight loss in a year and a month.

3:40

Well, why?

3:42

Well, because this will be the 65th time that I have gone round the sun.

3:49

Okay. And when you turn 65 as a weightlifter, you move into the 65 to 69 year old weight class and division.

3:58

So, so what does two 11 mean to me?

4:02

It doesn't mean anything except it's 96 kilos and that's the class I have to wait under them.

4:08

Okay, good. We'll just start with that for a second.

4:10

Well, let's think about that.

4:12

Am I healthier health is I use Matthew tone's definition, the optimal, you know, interplay the human organs.

4:21

Will I be healthier at two 11 versus 2 51?

4:26

Is that 40 pounds at age 65?

4:28

Will that loss make me healthier?

4:31

Well, I know from blood tests and blood tests and blood pressure and all the other stuff, I am healthier right now, I weigh about 2 21.

4:43

I am healthier at 2 21 than I am at 2 51.

4:46

I have a new grandson this year.

4:48

Leo people in my family don't live very long.

4:52

So will my longevity improve at two 11 versus 2 51?

4:59

Well, I can think, well, yeah, logically I think so.

5:02

I don't smoke. I wear seatbelts.

5:04

I see the doctor every year.

5:07

You know, I do the stuff you're supposed to do.

5:09

So I think weighing two 11 will help with my staying around for Leo and my other grandchildren, Danny and Josephine will Y be fitter at two 11 versus 2 51.

5:24

Well, fitness is ability to do a task.

5:27

So, you know, I still everyone's still asked me to move couches and refrigerators.

5:32

And, but I think, I think I'll be fitter at two 11.

5:37

And then finally in, when it comes to performance, I think I have a better chance of being an American record holder and maybe a world record holder at 96 kilos versus heavier than that.

5:49

And then the final thing, and you can take this however you want to take it.

5:53

Art Davine a few years ago said that vanity after a certain years is a great reason to work out.

6:01

Now. Vanity comes from the old Latin, you know, it means empty, but actually at my age, 65 van, these probably not a bad fifth reason to do something, please listen to what I tried to say that it's not just stepping on a scale and weighing two 11, which is great, but there's meat behind that goal for me, there is my grandchildren showed up in this conversation.

6:25

My overall health showed up, my weightlifting showed up.

6:30

I'll look better to me.

6:32

That's what you need. When you look at a fitness goal, it needs to have Brett.

6:38

It needs to have, it has to be full.

6:43

It has to be right, but it has to be rich.

6:46

It has to be rich, juicy, rich.

6:48

Yeah. You're with me. If you know, if you're going to have a dessert, you say like, you're trying to lose weight and someone says, do you want a bowl of vanilla ice cream?

6:57

Well, okay. That's a lot better than a, I dunno something.

7:01

You here, would you like a mint?

7:04

Okay. And then now I'm on a diet bowl, vanilla ice cream.

7:07

Nah, I spent, this is my grandmother's recipe.

7:10

I spent six weeks putting this together and I'm just going to light the match and flame it off.

7:16

And would you like some of that dessert?

7:18

Well, yeah, that's a does have that.

7:21

That's a little bit richer of a story than a bowl of vanilla.

7:25

So for me, I think what happens with most people's goals is that they have very vanilla goals.

7:32

They have these vague numbers out there.

7:35

They have this here.

7:38

Yeah. Like I want to lose a few pounds.

7:40

You know, I like to spend more time with my kid, our kids I'd like to, you know, do you see how blah that all was?

7:51

Right. But when I talk about stepping on the scale, the weightlifting meet under 211 pounds under 96 K and then stepping on the platform, not long after that and snatch and I cleaned the jerk.

8:02

And that just, that just kinda makes me excited.

8:05

And that's, I think the key.

8:08

Okay. So yeah, a lot of people just give up on their goals because there's really nothing there to it.

8:11

You know, if it's just a number that's not going to be to motivate.

8:15

Yeah. You need to have every goal you set has to enrich kind of several areas of your life has to light up your brain in different places.

8:26

You know, I gotta tell ya.

8:27

You know, if, if I was a performer, one of the things I would try to do is for example, maybe sprinkle the audience this time of year.

8:37

I put those cinnamon pine cones in front of, I have this electric fan heater in the house.

8:42

And I like to put those cinnamon pine cones downstream with the heater blower, you know?

8:49

So it makes the whole house smell like cinnamon.

8:52

And if I was a performer, I would always be blowing cinnamon into my audience.

8:57

You know, besides just me being on stage with my guitar, singing, you know, love ballads from the 1950s, I would try to have something else going on.

9:07

I would try to enlight light up every sense I can light up every part of the brain that I could.

9:16

Well, I feel the same way about goal-setting you gotta make it.

9:20

You gotta be able to taste it, smell it, see it, hear it.

9:23

Does that make sense? That makes sense.

9:25

I, and so when you're measuring this, so you set this goal, you want to lose body fat.

9:28

The scale is going to play a role, but do you have any other ways you measure fat loss that you'd like to use?

9:35

Yeah. Right here on my desk, as I'm sitting here, I have two things called tape measures.

9:39

I suggest you measure now it's difficult because your waistline anybody's ever measured.

9:46

Their waistline will tell you your waistline, not the measurement, but where you put your tape changes a little bit every day.

9:53

I think measuring your waistline every day is a really good little thing.

9:57

And if it, and the other thing I'd recommend Brett, is this use a centimeter ruler.

10:04

And the reason is if you go from 39 and 15 16th down to 39, and I don't know, three eights, that doesn't mean much.

10:15

But if you go from 104 centimeters to 99, that just we humans, for whatever reason, that's like, wow, that's a big change.

10:27

And if you can go, so I'm a big fan of measuring your waistline in centimeters.

10:33

Gotcha. All right. So measuring renews a scale, we're going to use a measuring tape.

10:36

I like Mio tape. That's the one that I use like five bucks on Amazon.

10:39

Really easy to use it. And if Brent, if I can add one more, we used to call them a movement buddies or ragging buddies.

10:45

If you have somebody in your life that you can trust, I would move outside of people in your home.

10:52

But somebody that'll give you a feedback on how you look and how you're doing a bragging buddy.

11:00

Someone you could talk to on a weekly basis.

11:02

These are the good things going on in my life.

11:05

And it's, it's more than a therapist.

11:07

It's fact in the old Irish, the word is on them, Cora and that a beautiful word, soul friend, someone you can just say, who will look at you and say, you look good.

11:19

You look happy, you know, and be, oh, thank you so much.

11:22

And the thing about a soul friend is you both, you have to listen to each other, which is a difficult thing sometimes.

11:29

Yeah. How frequently do you recommend people measuring themselves for the, when they're gauging their fat loss?

11:36

Well, you know, guys like Clarence bass say every day, you should weigh in and do the, the, the tape measure.

11:43

If you already keep a journal, if you already have a notebook that you keep the information and I would say daily, if you're new to it, maybe you might want to have an event.

11:55

You know, like, and boy, some people disagree with me here, but the Monday morning weigh in, you know, every Monday morning you make it.

12:06

If you don't have to, it could be Saturday and it doesn't matter.

12:08

But one day a week you pick to do the weigh in and the measurement and sorta make it a big deal to yourself.

12:16

Gotcha. I perfectly, I like the once a week I do mine on Friday morning because I feel like it's the Monday morning, the problem I've had there is that big Sunday night dinner and my in-law's place.

12:26

And that just throws everything off because you know, I'm kind of bloated and I'm retaining water.

12:31

Cause they, you know, some rolls and some cheesecake or whatever.

12:34

And so I'm just going to be heavier.

12:36

I'm going to look heavier in a way heavier.

12:38

But then like the next day, if I weighed myself on Tuesday, I'd be back to normal.

12:43

So I, that I timed my weigh ins on when I'm thinking like, this is like a normal day.

12:47

It's not like right after I had a big meal and that seemed to work for me.

12:51

Yeah. And if, you know, if, if you are someone who lifts weights three days a week, maybe Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday, Wednesday, Saturday, if you want to do something like that, where you have just a day where it's quiet and you, so your workout for that day would be the way in and the tape measure.

13:11

Let's talk about this. What's the, like a reasonable VAT law school for like, so you, you've lost almost 40 pounds in 13 months, 14 months for a lot of people.

13:20

What do you think is a reasonable goal? If there's someone who's losing, who needs to lose 25 to 50 pounds, how long should they expect that to take?

13:29

But here we run into it. Don't we Danny, seriously, this is where we run into it.

13:32

When I work with people, one of the things that comes up a lot, Brett, is that it took the person 40 years to put this weight on, but they want to lose that weight in two weeks.

13:43

And this is not like reasonable when I'm in Europe.

13:48

Most of the people that I trust will tell me about a kilo a month, which is only 2.2 pounds.

13:54

That's only half a pound a week and that's not very noticeable.

13:58

And most people, if I put you on a weight loss program, a fat loss program, and you lost two pounds a month, I got to tell you next new year's, it's going to be very noticeable for you.

14:14

But what happens is, is people don't want that.

14:17

When I, when I, my first month now with a fat loss client and I kind of insist on being paid upfront is the first month is that the first month you have to drink two glasses of water a day and that's it.

14:33

And of course I become your accountability buddy.

14:36

And at nine o'clock or eight o'clock, whatever time I call you up.

14:40

And the joke is always this, I call you up and the phone goes, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, because that's when you're drinking that second glass of water and month two, we just find a parking space that's as far away from your office or whatever that we can find.

14:55

And I tell everybody that you work with.

14:57

If you're not, if you, if you don't park there, you're to call me and I'm going to fire you as a client.

15:04

Now people say, no, that makes no sense.

15:07

No, no it does. Because one of the things we need to establish first in a fat loss protocol is building up the practice of habits.

15:18

And I'm, I really liked the work of BJ Fogg.

15:22

So the letter B the letter J F O G G, he's a Stanford psychologist.

15:27

And he believes in something called tiny habits.

15:30

So you actually make, when you're trying to do a life change, you don't say I'm gonna, this year, I'm gonna lose 100 pounds.

15:38

I'm going to get a doctorate in two different fields, and I'm going to fly to the moon.

15:42

No, you say I'm going to floss one tooth every day for the first month.

15:48

Well, one tooth, well, that's, that's actually a standard start because it's so small and so believable.

15:56

I mean, there's more to it than this, this that you start to have this, this, the snowball effect.

16:03

This little habit builds to a bigger one to a bigger one to a bigger one.

16:07

My best client I've ever had.

16:09

We did the one year thing in the first month was the glass of water thing at the end.

16:16

Now this is, this is unusual. This is off the charts.

16:18

At the end of the year, he had lost 100 pounds of body weight and ran a half marathon, 100 pounds.

16:25

Let

16:25

me

16:25

say

16:25

that

16:27

again. He lost a hundred pounds in a year, but what happened was was once he got the momentum of the habits, everything just started to come into play.

16:36

And he was shocked at, he began to look at some of the things he was doing in his life.

16:41

And it was like, there was just so many obvious things for him.

16:44

But once he got into the habit of doing things, he really started getting momentum.

16:49

To me, fat loss is just like an athletic career.

16:52

Maybe you're going in different directions, but once you get the momentum things, just start to almost appear to you.

17:00

Like if, if I was a train, you as Brett, as a discus thrower, you might say, I've never even heard of what the discus is, but all of a sudden you'll be online.

17:09

And all of a sudden these things will just, you'll be open a book and you'll see a discus thrower in there.

17:14

For example, when I read the Odyssey, Ulysses as a discus thrower, there's a very famous story in the Odyssey where he wins the disc as competition.

17:21

Or I see that because I'm a disc as Thor.

17:24

So when you're trying to lose fat and you start to get those habits, the snowball begins to grow.

17:31

All of a sudden, you see these little things in your life that you used to do.

17:36

Remember you are the sum of your habits.

17:40

As you sit in this chair, as we speak what you look like, what you have is income.

17:46

What you have is in your and your family life.

17:50

It's all the accumulation of the habits you've had since really you started having your own free will.

17:57

Basically, when you start a walking for yourself, It

18:01

sounds like rather than just focusing on the number you want to get to just focus on the processing and focus on those habits.

18:06

And as you do that, things are gonna start to gel and, you know, things are gonna start to click for you.

18:12

Yeah. Well, see, one of my habits is to weigh in every day, but I don't even, I don't even think about it like that anymore.

18:19

To be honest with you. I don't think about it as isn't that interesting.

18:25

So I wait, I do the waistline every day now and I do the way in every day, but I didn't for a long time.

18:32

But once I started seeing that body weight accelerate down, boy, I got to tell you from 2 51 to 2 31, it wasn't very exciting.

18:41

But when I got to 2 24, which is the 102 kilo weight class, and I lifted in three meats as 102 for meats.

18:49

And then all of a sudden I was down to two 18.

18:51

It was like, man, let's just drop down to two 11.

18:54

And I started weighing in every day because it was kind of exciting.

18:59

So you've had some, you've had some, you know, series momentum this year with your own fat loss.

19:03

Have, did you ever meet any like plateaus or roadblocks along the way where you're like, ah, man, it's not budget anymore.

19:11

Yeah. Here in Utah, it's called a winter.

19:13

Winter. Winter is tough.

19:16

You know, all of a sudden, you just last night at 11 o'clock.

19:20

I was, I was shoveling in this morning at six o'clock.

19:23

I was shoveling. And when I went outside to workout at nine 30 today, I didn't want to go back out in the cold.

19:28

And I just wanted to say, I really just wanted to put a blanket on and you know, eat something would make me happy and you know?

19:36

Yeah. So, yeah, so, so the big, the big roadblocks for me tend to be winter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, the same roadblocks, all of us have, I don't know how much of your audience is American, but basically once bowl season comes around, I tend to sit around a whole lot and watch college football.

19:57

And I'm when I'm sitting around my choices for my choices for beverages, go south, my choices for, you know, all of a sudden I find myself eating the other day, I was eating pretzels and I kind of just caught myself, like, why am I eating pretzels?

20:13

You know, I just, it's not a food I eat and yet I was eating it.

20:18

And I think, I hope you're following along here, Brett, because we all have the same ebbs and flows.

20:25

What's nice about where I'm at now is the next day.

20:31

I, I actually spent some time.

20:33

We're only doing audio here, but right.

20:35

Knowing, picking up this little it's a little notebook I have, it's called a memo book, 60 sheets.

20:41

And every day I write in a few ideas about how I can get my body weight down to two 11.

20:48

Well, after this college football bowl game incident, I decided that next week I'm going to start doing, I'm going to do once again, rusty Morris fat loss boost.

20:59

I've done it once before base.

21:02

It's just two weeks, but basically it's chicken and vegetables every day.

21:08

That's what you eat for two weeks.

21:10

Now. I vegetable soups.

21:12

I eat big salads. I, this isn't for everybody, but I decided that because I really want to weigh two 11 at this weightlifting, meet that.

21:21

When we get back from the rose bowl, I am going to, you know, take care of business in two weeks.

21:26

Which nice is that it's almost, it'll be what almost a full month after the pretzel incident.

21:37

Okay. I hope you're falling here.

21:38

I gave myself permission to make a mistake and then I came up with a plan and I think that's important.

21:45

You can't just say, oh, I'm eating pretzels and drinking this thing.

21:50

I shouldn't be drinking. Oh, forget it.

21:52

I'm just gonna, you know, I'm going to wait until the next decade to get in shape, you know, address the issue.

21:59

Look at it, come up with a positive plan and reboot.

22:05

Okay. All right. So yeah, I like that.

22:07

So first thing, make your goals rich, measure yourself daily or weekly.

22:12

And then if you have set like plan for setbacks, there's probably going to be setbacks along the way.

22:16

Cause we're human beings. Nope. Well, there are setbacks, weddings, birthdays.

22:22

There's, there's all kinds of things.

22:24

Here's one interesting thing I have noticed though.

22:26

I started telling people, so some of the people I work with go to these all-inclusive vacations now.

22:31

And one of the things I tell them now is here's the weirdest thing.

22:35

Most people come back from all inclusive, vacations, lighter there.

22:40

When they step on the scale after an all-inclusive vacation, they're lighter and they'll look at me like I'm crazy.

22:47

Oh no. First off you sleep more.

22:49

Finally, you play on the beach.

22:52

Great. When you go to the buffet and it's all you can eat for whatever reason, people, when they're given all you can eat, they relax.

22:59

They, they de stress and they come back lighter.

23:02

So even when you decide, sometimes if you actively decide, I'm going to go on this vacation, I'm gonna go on this vacation in June.

23:12

And I'm going to have a great time.

23:14

And I'm not going to worry about my body weight.

23:16

Very often people come back lighter on the scale.

23:19

So I think we, humans have to just acknowledge that there are times to plant and times to, so there's time.

23:28

There's a time for everything under the sun.

23:31

And I think the mistake is, is just saying, I am overweight.

23:36

I'm going to exercise and not eat.

23:40

That's just not a good plan.

23:43

Okay. So you've got, let's talk like the how of how to lose fat.

23:47

Sure. You've got this really surprisingly simple outline for fat loss that you've based on your Desi strength program.

23:53

And we'll talk about each of the components of your approach, but it all starts with food.

23:56

You coauthored a book with Josh Hillis and you guys suggest when it comes to food, people should focus on three things, quantity, quality, and ratio.

24:05

Can you walk us through those three components?

24:09

We'll make it even simpler for you. This is what I was told the Olympic training center by the, the dietician.

24:13

I don't know what the big deal is.

24:16

Eat protein, eat veggies, drink water.

24:19

And I remember looking at her going I'm in the wrong career field, man, but it comes down to honestly, my good friend, pat Flynn, he talks about this first.

24:30

If you focus on getting enough protein in your diet, I'm going to up my protein because protein has this ability to make you feel full.

24:39

All the other things seem to work themselves out.

24:42

I like that kind of approach.

24:45

My personal approach is I try to eat eight different vegetables every day.

24:51

This is my personal approach.

24:52

And what you need to do is just have I worry about, because this is more Josh as field and I'm just, you know, I'm just, I just kneel at his feet.

25:01

But I think the key is this pick something like pat says, I'm going to make sure I get my protein everyday.

25:08

Pat's a big believer. And starting the day with a protein shake, I believe in fasting until I work out that we're not disagreeing.

25:15

It's it's, it's not an either or it's a both.

25:18

And for me, if I, cause I it's easy for me to get my protein in, it's always been easy because I grew up in the sixties was strengthened health magazine and protein was like a God.

25:30

Okay. But for me, the vegetables has always been the issue.

25:33

So for me, by focusing on getting the vegetables in, I take care of the protein just naturally and drink a lot of water.

25:41

So when it comes to things like quantity, if you have vegetable soup and a big salad at every meal and a protein source after you have that big bowl of vegetable soup that I have big bowl is 120 calories.

25:58

The salad that I make probably as negative calories.

26:03

I don't, I don't, I I really, and then there's this, this protein after you eat that, then feel free to anything, eat anything else to fill you up because here's the thing you're satiated, you're full.

26:15

Anything you eat after that is something you want to do to make your taste buds happy and make that you know that infant part of your brain happy when it comes to quality.

26:27

You know, I used to make this joke about this diet I'd invented where you had to eat everyday two pounds of salmon, a dozen eggs, a container of cottage cheese, a carton of blueberries.

26:40

It was, it was a list that they had in men's magazine.

26:43

And I said, after you'd all that feel free to anything else you want.

26:47

Well, of course, if you can push down two pounds of salmon and 12 eggs every day, you're not going to be very hungry.

26:54

So that's what the quality side of things comes in.

26:57

You probably can eat a lot more fried chicken that you, then you can bake salmon.

27:03

Would you agree with that?

27:06

Yeah.

27:07

Or even like, you can eat more potato chips than you can just like a baked potato.

27:13

You can eat more calories and potato chips easily.

27:15

Then you could bake potatoes.

27:17

Right? Right. To me, those are the publisher time.

27:20

Those are the big rocks of nutrition in my world.

27:23

If you're not used to eating a lot of protein, focus on protein sources.

27:27

If you're like me and you struggle on the vegetable side, get your vegetables in.

27:32

And really, I don't even know why we even talk about this anymore, but you know, drink water and I'm fine with any, any calorie free drink.

27:41

You, you decide to do somebody not long ago, said something to me because I, when I go out, I tend to drink diet sodas.

27:48

And they said, aren't they bad for you?

27:50

And I'm like, okay. Yeah.

27:53

Okay. They're really, it's the diet soda.

27:55

It's the I'm I'm, you know, on a Friday night I'm having a diet soda.

28:02

Yeah. That's the problem with my body is that yeah.

28:05

So stop.

28:06

We've got to draw the line sometimes someplace.

28:09

Everything's bad for you.

28:12

It's going to make it very difficult for you to move ahead on your fitness and longevity calls.

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30:28

And now back to the show. Well, so for those who were just starting out, you for you, you've been doing this for how many 40 odd years, 50 years Maybe

30:35

lifting weights since 1965.

30:38

Okay. So you have a good idea of like, okay, this is, this has this amount of protein.

30:43

It's probably gets, I'm getting my protein sources for those who are just starting out.

30:46

Would it be useful to measure things out and kind of look at a buddy fitness buddy or fitness pal?

30:53

Oh, that would be really good if you have, if you have the ability to do that and keep doing it that's money for most of us, we just use the I'm looking at the Palm of my hand, make sure you have a Palm sized protein at every meal.

31:08

And then I would say, and then make it the most, everything else on the plate is as colorful as can be as many vegetables as appropriate.

31:16

One thing that I have in trying a friend of mine mentioned this is eat fruits separately.

31:21

And so now my snack is an apple.

31:26

I'm

31:26

not

31:26

a

31:26

lunatic

31:26

gentle

31:29

listener. I'm just saying that this one person said to me, make fruit, your snacks.

31:34

And I don't really snack very often.

31:37

I basically eat about two meals a day, but if I do snack, I try to snack on fruit.

31:43

Oh, so you eat two meals a day. How much protein do you think you're getting those two meals A

31:48

lot.

31:50

Cause I mean, what's the measurement they give you. It's like 1.8 grams per pound of body weight.

31:55

So if you're, I mean, if you can just round it up to like one gram.

31:58

So I mean, if you're a 200 pound male, you're looking at, you know, close to 200 grads per Yeah.

32:04

90, we, I like the gram to kilos.

32:08

So if you're a 200 pound male, you're basically 90 kilos, 91.

32:12

So that's 90 grams a day.

32:15

The protein shakes that I buy at the store here called they're 30 grams of protein per container and oh, okay.

32:24

So here's another snack. I do.

32:25

I take the cereal called fiber one and I put it in a bowl.

32:29

And then I take that. I think it's called, I don't know the brand name, but it's 30 grams of protein and I pour the protein as milk.

32:37

And that's a nice little snack.

32:39

And the reason I'll eat something like that is if I'm trying to push hunger off until say like dinner tonight at seven, I ate brunch at 11 and dinners at seven, maybe at three or four, I'll eat that fiber one protein drink meal and the amount of fiber and the protein Holtz.

32:56

It, it, it is strange to talk to people about protein because some people like, how do you get enough protein in your, in your diet?

33:04

I'll look at them like, how do you not?

33:06

And then I'll look at what they eat on a typical day.

33:10

They'll start their day with orange juice, two pieces of toast, a bagel, and then it, and I'm always hungry.

33:17

Well, yeah, if you're hungry because you haven't eaten any protein and you haven't had any, and the problem with toast and bagels and stuff like that is your body really processes them quickly.

33:27

The glycemic index on them is really high.

33:30

So you're always kind of in a starvation mode.

33:34

You know, if you like pat Flynn's approach to starting your day with 30 grams of protein, some people tell me, yeah, I weirdly get hungrier starting the day with a protein drink.

33:44

And my thought is, well, you know, why don't you eat?

33:47

Just eat. Then three eggs is, you know, about the same four eggs, you know, whatever it is.

33:53

So yeah, it to me, I have a hard time believing you can't get enough protein, your diet until I talk to people about what they eat.

34:00

And then it makes more sense.

34:02

Okay. It sounds like interesting here. It's like, you're not overthinking this stuff too much.

34:06

At least the nutrition part. It's just like get protein and then vegetables.

34:10

And that's it like if you're doing that, you're probably doing good.

34:17

Well, that's what she told me at the Olympic training center, eat protein and vegetables, drink water.

34:22

And then the great line.

34:24

I don't know why people make it such a big deal On

34:28

this drinking water. You had this bit. I read somewhere, you encourage people to drink warm water.

34:33

What's going on there.

34:35

Cause it sounds like, well, this sounds like, I don't know.

34:39

Okay. Okay. Vudu alert. Okay.

34:41

Gentle listener. All right.

34:43

But it's hot water.

34:45

And here's ago I was at dinner with the Pavel Pavel, the kettlebell guy.

34:50

That's silly. Yeah.

34:52

So we're sitting around and we we'd had dinner before and any in after dinner, he orders the two of us, hot water with lemon and he kind of elbows me and says, it's proved to help your digestion.

35:05

So after this big dinner and trust me, when you go out with kettlebell people, your dinner is going to be meat.

35:12

Okay. It's gonna be me. And I, you know, some sitting there drinking this hot water with lemon and I'm like, huh, that's interesting.

35:19

A couple of years later, my daughter Kelly, is telling me about the benefits of drinking hot water.

35:25

Well, then I had a friend say, well, that's just basic elevating medicine.

35:29

So I went out and I purchased as much as like aerobatic medicine is the traditional medicine of India.

35:36

And I read the work of John Dooley yard.

35:39

He's over at life spa in Denver.

35:42

And he recommends for fat loss, drinking, hot water with lemon.

35:46

Now Pavel says, it's good for your digestion.

35:48

Kelly tells me it's good for fat loss and buying, you know, here it is, this other person says.

35:55

And so I started doing it in the afternoons.

35:57

I have a hot pot. And then I have those bottles of concentrated lemon juice, you know?

36:02

Yeah. And I, and I add it.

36:04

So as I'm working, I drink it.

36:06

Here's what I like best.

36:08

And here's what my daughter Kelly told me too.

36:10

My daughter, Kelly is my DNA.

36:13

She, I mean, she's, she is me.

36:16

And we both have this condition.

36:17

Are you ready, Brett, that condition there, which is so annoying.

36:24

I'm the person at the movie going once I started drinking hot water lemon, it stopped.

36:32

And someone said, well, that's just because it cleans out your mucus.

36:35

And I'm like, Hey man, as long as I'm not making noise at the movie, I'm happy with that too.

36:40

So, okay.

36:43

Whether or not it actually clears out mucus.

36:46

I don't know whether or not that assists with fat loss.

36:49

I think it might.

36:51

It, it is a bit of a diuretic of idol.

36:54

As I've noticed. My joke is I drink one cup and P two, but it does seem to do something.

37:01

And it could be as simple as this while I'm drinking hot water.

37:06

I am satisfying my taste buds, my throat, my tummy.

37:12

And I'm sticking something in my mouth that isn't caloric and isn't adding to my body fat density or, and then find, let's go to the cause you always have to go to the stream.

37:27

It's a magical substance that goes into your fat cells and eats them there.

37:34

That's always a possibility. Now I tried it.

37:36

I was like, after I read that, I was like, oh, I'm going to try this.

37:38

And all that I noticed, like when I was drinking, I got pretty sweaty.

37:41

Like I was getting hot.

37:43

Yeah, me too. Just from drinking hot water, which was interesting.

37:46

But I liked it.

37:47

It was a way to drink liquids.

37:49

That was different from just drinking lukewarm tap water.

37:52

And it, it was enjoyable.

37:54

And at, at at least it's, it's helping you get more water, which is essential for health.

38:00

If all it is, is that okay for me?

38:02

I stopped doing the nonsense.

38:06

It stops it.

38:07

Maybe it does.

38:09

Maybe it hydrates us up.

38:11

Maybe it raises that basal metabolism up a few drops.

38:15

Okay. Maybe it is makes the body have to work a little harder to cool that stuff down.

38:21

What kind of know, you know, now I'm just spit balling or maybe which is the only correct answer is that the hot water in the lemon go out and actively kill fat cells.

38:33

Like, you know, kind of like Luke Skywalker and death stars.

38:37

Okay. There you go. It targets it.

38:38

It's Targeting as it's gotten.

38:40

That's the only logical logical Answer.

38:42

But Having

38:45

said it though, and this is so hard to say this without kind of going without shaking my head, which I'm doing, it seems to really work for me.

38:56

Yeah. By the way, gentle listener.

38:57

How much do I make on telling you to drink hot water with a little, a little hint to limit there?

39:03

I don't make a nickel. It's like me telling you to sleep more, drink, sleep more, drink, hot water.

39:08

You know, I'm not going to make a billion dollars on.

39:11

Yeah. So I guess I'd give it a shot. It might might work for you.

39:14

So let's talk about the nutrition component and it's pretty easy.

39:19

Nothing too. You don't have to think too hard about it.

39:21

You mentioned you're a big fan of intermittent fasting for fat loss.

39:25

That's your way to go. Why is that?

39:27

Why do you think that's working for you?

39:29

Well, I'm not proud of what I'm about to say, but I got to the point as an athlete that if I didn't, if I wasn't shoving something down my throat every hour, I felt like I was getting behind the Russians.

39:41

Okay. I did.

39:43

And then, you know, I just, but, and I never really learned to discern the difference between craving mild hunger and starving and what I learned.

39:59

And it's, there's nothing new to it. Every, every faith tradition has fasting as part of it.

40:05

Everyone, every single faith region has it.

40:08

One

40:08

day,

40:08

I

40:08

just

40:08

kinda,

40:08

I

40:08

was

40:08

listening

40:08

to

40:08

these

40:08

people,

40:08

talking

40:08

about

40:08

this

40:08

stuff

40:08

and

40:08

I'm

40:08

like,

40:08

and

40:08

I

40:08

started

40:08

to

40:08

fast

40:08

and

40:08

I

40:08

realized

40:08

what

40:08

a

40:08

gap

40:08

there

40:19

was. I'm not bragging Brett, but I, I have tremendous self-discipline except when it came to fasting.

40:26

And what I did is I realized this team of horses that was food, was just pulling me around.

40:34

And I had to tame that a little bit.

40:36

So for me, personally, intermittent fasting did first taught me to deal with what hunger is versus starvation.

40:44

Okay. That's just me. And then I started noticing something is in those periods where I'm not constantly shoveling food down, it gave my body a chance to digest.

40:55

I'm a big believer in the gut biome stuff, too.

40:59

You know, having a healthy colony inside the flora and fauna inside of your, your, your gut by not constantly shoveling things down there, they had to be a lot more.

41:10

Th th I enhance them fasting enhanced as the gut pile.

41:15

And I also began to notice that if I could fast.

41:19

And so I just, I don't just react to food anymore.

41:23

So I have a better skill set to go.

41:27

Dan, do you want, do you want some banana bread?

41:29

Well, no, let me do this first.

41:32

Let me, let me get some, you know, and whatever I'm going to eat.

41:36

Some kimchi with, you know, I'm gonna have a little salad, a piece of chicken and some kimchi.

41:41

And then when the, then they say, do you want some banana bread?

41:44

I made it myself. I'll look over and go.

41:47

You made this yourself and it'll have a reasonable piece of it.

41:50

Enjoy it, smile, and be done with it.

41:53

It's given me control over my food.

41:56

The other thing now, I was at a workshop one time, and this person who said something, I didn't agree with said that fasting cardio has no value at all.

42:04

And I thought, I think you're missing the point.

42:06

They were thinking of the body as a machine, which is fine because parts of our body is machine it's.

42:12

We are machines in certain places, but I think they miss the point that when you're doing something like faster cardio, like in my case, faster workouts, I can work out really hard in the morning now because I'm not also digesting breakfast because I, I don't eat until I've got my work and my workout in.

42:35

So Powell said one time that what he likes so much about intermittent fasting is how it made you like a hunter.

42:44

Okay. There's a word in Hawking.

42:46

Yarik Y a R a K.

42:50

And it's that eyes that are wrapped or has, when is looking for food when I'm, when I'm fasting and I've got to write something.

42:59

My, I mean, I am glued to the screen when I'm fasting and I go work out, like today was cold and it hadn't any food.

43:08

And I was shivering and I was doing my workout.

43:10

And man, like, even right now, as I'm explaining it to you, Brett, my eyes are like all filled like, oh, let's go take guts.

43:17

Let's go fight this war.

43:18

And you're. And so that, that's why I like it so much.

43:22

I like what it does, my ability to deal with food.

43:27

First. I like what it does for my work as an author.

43:30

And then I really like what it does for my focus in my workouts.

43:34

And if intermittent fasting is something you want to do, there's different protocols.

43:39

I mean, there's different ways to do it.

43:41

You could certainly, I mean, you could, you know, you could do something as simple, as fast modified diets.

43:46

That's Valter, Longo's work where once a month you take a three or four day period and eat 800 calories a day.

43:52

You could do the five to where two days a week, you fast another great one, one day, a week, you eat dinner and then you don't eat until the next dinner.

44:03

That's pretty simple, right?

44:05

Anything you can do to kind of get control of your don't take this wrong.

44:14

And I'm not against capitalism, but every time I turn the television set, they are selling me.

44:19

You know, I was just watching, I don't mention the brand, but it's this, this fried greasy chicken sandwich and it's in it's mouthwatering or something like that.

44:32

They said, well, I watched that and it'd be like, I can now turn off mentally that commercial my skill, because I fast, I built up the muscle of turning off instant gratification and there's a few listeners are probably going, oh, I think I knew what he means.

44:55

You know, you be able to slow things down when it comes to shoveling things down your throat.

45:02

What's your protocol right now. Do you, how long do you fast when you break?

45:05

When do you break your fast?

45:07

Yeah, so I basically almost always eat between five and six o'clock at night at dinner.

45:12

I get up at about most days, five or six in the morning.

45:16

I meditate for 15 minutes.

45:19

That's the first thing. And then I go online and I do all my emails.

45:23

I write whatever I have to write at about nine o'clock.

45:27

I get ready to work out at nine 30.

45:30

All these people come over to train with me.

45:32

We work out to about 10 30 and basically about 11 I'll eat.

45:36

So I don't know what is that that's sneaking up on 18 hours, I guess.

45:42

But for me, working out in a fasted state is to, to use the phrase money, money, That's

45:51

money, baby. So talk about the exercise program you recommend for fat loss.

45:55

It's easy strength and give us a big picture overview of the exercise we're focusing on here and like how many times we're training, Et

46:01

cetera. Okay. But there's the, there's the million dollar thing at the end of it.

46:04

Okay. So if you can, in your perfect world, if you want, if you want to do the Dan, John methadone, easy fat loss, if you can come into your workout fast that's well, of course, technically, if you're not shoveling food down your throat right now, you're fasting technically.

46:23

But the idea is this, all you're trying to do is, and this comes from rusty Moore is get yourself to free up some free fatty acids.

46:34

The easiest way I know is easy strength.

46:37

So basically we're going to do a vertical press and overhead press dumbbell, press kettlebell, press barbell, press, maybe three sets of three, some kind of vertical pole that can be lat pull downs, chin ups, pull ups.

46:51

Get about a total. If it's chin-ups or pull-ups maybe two sets of five.

46:55

If you can do that three sets of three or lat pull downs, you might have to do more, some kind of hinge movement.

47:01

I love the dead lift family.

47:03

I love nix.

47:05

The AB wheel. The AB wheel is one of the most underrated pieces of equipment in the world.

47:10

One set of 10 is all you need.

47:12

Because with this program, you're going to do it three to five times a week.

47:17

Okay? So one set of 10 daily is pretty good.

47:19

If you know how to kettlebell swing great.

47:22

If not, whatever it takes, but if you're going to do kettlebell swings, it'd be about sets of 15.

47:29

You're just trying to get your heart rate up a little, but here's the key.

47:32

So overhead press three sets of three.

47:35

Pull-ups three sets of three, three sets of three in the dead lift.

47:40

One set of 10 in the app.

47:42

We'll go out the door and walk for 30 or 45 minutes.

47:45

As you're walking.

47:47

Your body's just released a whole bunch of stuff.

47:50

Your heart rate's elevated.

47:51

Once you start walking, your body now has a chance, according to rusty Moore.

47:56

And I think he's right, because it's worked so simply for me is now you freed up the free fatty acids.

48:02

And now as your walk, your body is like a Pac-Man EA eating those free fatty acids.

48:09

Here's the thing again, it's like drinking the hot water, man.

48:14

Is it a hundred percent true?

48:17

I don't know, but it works.

48:18

So this short workout, we're looking at 10 to 15 minutes of a workout.

48:25

And then the half hour 45 minute walk has just been the most illuminating change in my career.

48:31

And again, The nutrition stuff, this is really easy.

48:35

Like I think a lot of people think they got to spend an hour in the gym here.

48:39

It's 15 minutes. You don't even need a gym. You just need a kettlebell and a pull up bar, you'll be dumbbell.

48:45

And you're you're set.

48:47

And if you can't find a place to do, pull-ups just do bros or something like that, just, and no matter what, no matter what I say, of course people are gonna throw up.

48:55

You know, ah, what about I don't have this? I don't okay.

48:57

You can make this work.

48:59

I mean, you can do calisthenics, but the idea of get those calisthenics in don't kill yourself and then go for the walk.

49:06

And yes, it is easy.

49:08

And I think that's why it works so well.

49:11

I honestly think that most people put themselves in such a state of not just physical exhaustion, but even like, you know, when people think about losing fat, very often, they go to the seven deadly sins and they think is a slot or slow and gluttony.

49:31

And so I'm going to counter that by eating rabbit food and making myself a physical wreck.

49:38

And the problem is all that does is hurt.

49:40

Your joints makes you lose lean body mass.

49:43

You'll lose lean body mass, but keep the fat because you're freaking your body out.

49:47

What I'm trying to do with the easy string for fat loss protocol is coax your body and say, Hey, things are fine.

49:55

Things are fine. Yeah. We fasted.

49:57

We had a workout, but now we have a nice meal.

50:00

Here's some protein, here's some vegetables, see things are fine.

50:04

And the body looks up to me and says, oh, thank you for being so kind.

50:08

Let's drop some of those fat cells.

50:10

Shall we? Yeah, let's do that.

50:12

And then we send Luke Skywalker in with that hot water with limited issues.

50:20

All right. Is this, yeah, you're not putting on a hair shirt to lose weight.

50:22

No. And you're not beating yourself.

50:24

And here's the funny thing is that isn't a thing that we've lost in Mo in the fitness industry is nudging yourself in the fat loss.

50:35

Could you imagine?

50:36

I always use, when I talk about weightlifting, I always use the idea of learning, how to type.

50:41

Could you imagine if you had someone standing next to you, as you were learning to type screaming in your ear, it's all, you know, hit that, a hit that a, you know, with your pinkie, hit that.

50:52

Come on, man, go, go, go.

50:53

What would you, what would it look like on the screen?

50:55

If someone was screaming at you where the letters were, it would look terrible.

50:59

So how you learn how to type as you go in every day and you type and you make a mistake, you correct it.

51:06

You make a mistake, you correct it pretty soon.

51:08

There's less mistakes. Pretty soon you flow.

51:10

And one day you end up like where I'm basically add now, or I can type almost as fast as I can think.

51:16

And it's not ever because anyone's ever slapped my face or, you know, made me drink an energy drink before I went typing.

51:24

I just nudged myself daily for a long time to become a better and better and better typer.

51:30

So if you nudge yourself, if you fast, and then you do this gentle, this work, oh, you push it.

51:39

There's nothing wrong with going to heavy and getting those, those loads up.

51:42

And then you go for a walk and then you come home and you have protein veggies and you drink some water.

51:47

And then later on you have more protein, more veggies and drink some water.

51:51

Maybe later on that day, you have more protein, more veggies, drinks of water.

51:54

Your body is not going to go into this.

51:56

Oh no. And if someone does offer you some kind of a delightful delight that they worked hard on doing enjoy it just don't go to the machine and throw some cash in or use your card and get some, you know, 500 calorie candy bar, you know, pick and choose being an adult.

52:16

I want to talk more About

52:18

this. Walking is your big proponent of walking. So you're going to do your 15 minute workout in the gym, and you're going to go for a 30 to 45 minute walk, but you've also thrown.

52:25

In some ways you can make the walk a bit more strenuous.

52:28

You have this idea of reverse rucking.

52:30

What's that?

52:32

Okay. Reverse rocking. Okay. Yeah. You read, you've read my work.

52:35

If you read my work, that's a great line from the movie Patton.

52:39

Yeah. It's something that I came up with a couple of years ago.

52:42

So I'd had a lot of success with some clients who were in the mid three hundreds, bodyweight working with me.

52:49

And honestly, all I tried to do well, it would be the simple thing.

52:53

You know, first we'd start off with the two glasses of water and then, you know, but once we got them walking, you know, like the one client, I had weighed three 50 and boy within, I mean, it seemed like a blink of an eye.

53:05

He was down to three 20 and I'm thinking, man, I'm good.

53:08

You know? And then he got to about two 90 and everything's stalled.

53:12

And then I had noticed that this had happened to somebody else years ago.

53:16

And then it kind of hit me.

53:18

If you go from a 20 minute walk, Wayne, three 50, you are doing a loaded carry and your body is getting hit hard.

53:27

But here's the problem is as you lose weight, as you get lighter and lighter, you become the curse of what fat loss exercise is.

53:38

All about. Fat loss is exercise is about being as efficient as you can be.

53:44

So if you're an outstanding dancer and we take a dance class together, I'm going to be dying next to you while you just go step ball change, step ball change.

53:55

So as this person went walking at 3 50, 3 43 35, that added load of their own body mass made walking very inefficient.

54:05

Once they slit about two 90, they became to become more and more efficient as a Walker.

54:12

So what we began to do then was add a very simple a school backpack is just fine.

54:18

And at first it doesn't have to be very much weight.

54:21

You can throw in up a single five pound weight or a single 10 pound weight.

54:25

Now you gotta be careful here because most people are going to overdue when we're about to say, and as they drop now to two 80, maybe you want to increase that to 15 pounds to 70 to 60, maybe go get up to about 30.

54:37

Once you get around 30 to 35 pounds, 15 kilos, there is not a lot of value in adding weight to the backpack anymore.

54:45

Now you're going to get people on your show who are military and they'll say, well, I carried a 5,000 pound backpack.

54:54

Okay. Good for you. But for fat loss, when you get to around 30 pounds, you kind of peak out with the, with the rock or the backpacking.

55:02

So it's called reverse rucking because you're adding weight as the person's.

55:08

So make an X with my hand, you add weight as the body mass goes down.

55:14

Once you get to a certain weight, then I would put on ankle weights.

55:18

Ankle weights are great for anybody, with all kinds of issues.

55:21

The ankle weight makes you improve your gait without even thinking about it.

55:24

And then after, and I wouldn't go much over five pound ankle weights, and then I like to put heavy hands weights in the hands.

55:31

And I've discovered that honestly, three pounds per hand, you get those little dumbbells at Ross dress for less, that way, three pounds.

55:40

Those are perfect for walking.

55:41

They are pink, but they're still perfect for walking.

55:44

So now you always tell one of my clients, cause you see them walking down the street with a backpack with plate in the back with bright green ankle weights in pink, heavy hands.

55:56

So it's like, you know, you got a Dan John person right there.

56:00

Yeah. That's a Dan John. So yeah, they'll go here.

56:02

You're just trying to make the block a little bit more efficient so that you can burn more calories.

56:05

Exactly, exactly.

56:07

And here's the thing you're still about that 30 to 45 minute range.

56:12

The problem we have when you work with building into running and you can, this isn't my phrase, but it's called the fat jogger syndrome where the person runs more and more and more and becomes increasingly fatter as they run.

56:26

It's not universal, but it does happen with some people because they become very efficient at running and they start doing what the runners called garbage miles.

56:36

I'm a former track coach.

56:38

So I can use the phrase that's just called garbage miles where you just get out there and it doesn't really help for body composition.

56:46

Well, Dan, this has been a great conversation. I mean, we talked about a lot and it's pretty simple.

56:50

I mean, recap, make sure your goals are rich that you, your weight loss or fat loss goals, rich measure yourself regularly.

56:55

When you eat, get protein, vegetables, maybe intermittent fast, maybe drink some hot water to get the Luke Skywalker effect.

57:04

And then the exercise is not hard, 15 minutes in the gym and then walk.

57:07

And then at some point maybe make your walk a bit more efficient by adding some weight so that it, Yeah,

57:13

well it's, we've been doing this for awhile and I wish I could go back in time.

57:19

And I wish when I first started coaching in 1979, I was having my people do this.

57:25

Cause it's, it's so much better for fat loss and people are happier.

57:29

The nice thing is you're not exhausted from the workout.

57:34

So you make better choices on your meals.

57:37

It is.

57:39

If I beat, if I beat you to death, if I just beat you down on the workout, Brett, you're going to want to eat stuff that makes you happy.

57:47

And I want you to eat, you know, chicken thighs and a salad and vegetable soup.

57:53

Well, Dan, John, where can people go to learn more about your work?

57:55

Yeah, Well, oh and by the way I talked to Brian, he's extended that discount to your listeners again.

58:01

Okay. And make sure if you could put that in the notes, it means a lot to me, Dan, John university.com.

58:05

And if you put one word art of man, make art of man, one word, you get this massive discount and a whole bunch of your listeners used it last time.

58:17

And we've opened it up again for you.

58:19

So Dan, John university.com and there's just, I've got, I mean, there's probably thousands of pages of downloadable, you know, actually books and some cases, lots of articles and one of the best forums on the internet.

58:37

Very good people, very friendly.

58:39

And also too, there's a thing on there called the workout generator where you can just plug in what equipment you have, how many days a week you want to work out, you press a button and it gives you your workouts really for the rest of your life.

58:52

It's, it's just, it's what I wish I would have had when my first one online in 1998.

58:58

It's

58:58

just,

58:58

it's

58:58

just,

58:58

it's

58:58

incredible

58:58

how

58:58

it

59:02

takes. It's the inside of my mind.

59:04

But it's working with what you're telling us.

59:08

You can do. It's just, it's it's this to me is, was the promise of the internet.

59:15

Well, Dan, John, thanks for the time. It's always a pleasure.

59:17

Oh, and I love your site. I love what you do.

59:20

You make a, and that's really the highest praise I can give some.

59:25

Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you.

59:26

My guest is Dan John. He's the author of several books on health and fitness, including fat loss starts on Monday.

59:32

Make sure, check out his website. Dan John university.com and use code art of man for discount on his programs.

59:37

Also check out our show notes at aom.io/fat loss, and also check out our website.

59:42

We've got lots of articles on habit formation.

59:44

We did a podcast with BJ Fogg and check out there.

59:46

We have some more articles there on fat loss, weight loss, getting healthy in the new year.

59:51

So check it out. Art of manliness.com, show notes, a whim.io/fat loss.

59:55

Well,

59:55

that

59:55

wraps

59:55

up

59:55

another

59:55

edition

59:55

of

59:55

the

59:55

AOM

1:00:04

podcast. Make sure to check out our [email protected].

1:00:06

We find our podcast, archives walls, thousands of articles.

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We know there's about pretty much anything you could think of.

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And if you'd like to enjoy ad-free episodes of the AOM podcast, you can do so on Stitcher premium head over to Stitcher premium.com, sign up, use code Manliness at checkout for a free month trial.

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1:00:41

Brett McKay here, and welcome to another edition of the art manliness podcast. And when it comes to losing weight, you can find plenty of complicated programs that involve long intense workouts and strict calorie counting diet plans. But my guest today takes an approach to fat loss that's awesomely simple and even more effective because of that fact. His name is Dan John. He's a strength coach, a competitive thrower, and weightlifter. And the author has many books about health and fitness, including fat loss starts on Monday. Today on the show, Dan talks about the importance of not only picking a specific number of where you want your but enriching that goal so that it lights up multiple parts of your brain. We then discuss how and how often to measure your weight, how to deal with the setbacks as you shed the pounds, in Dan's uncomplicated approach to eating. Dan also explains why he recommends drinking hot water with women, practicing intermittent fasting, and working out in a fasted state. We then go over easy strength exercise programming suggest for fat loss and why these short weight lifting sessions always are followed by a walk. And when a conversation with how to break through weight loss plateau, by doing something called Reverse Rucking. After shows over check at our show notes at a whim dot is slash fat loss. Alright, Dan John. Welcome back to the show. Hey, well, thanks so much. I, you know, like I've told you before, I love your site. My friend Gabriel Colosimo uses your site with his students because he thinks that there's some gaps in modern education, which I agree with. And, man, I watched this drop some things out of teaching. It was like, Okay. Great. Again, we we're reacting. We're but there were some things or some fundamentals I still think we need to to deal with. Well, well, I'm glad. Thanks so much. I'm glad that the site's been useful for you and for folks you know. I wanted to bring you back on the podcast. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. We had you on last year to talk about benchmarks. Yeah. Physical benchmarks every man should, you know, strive for. Wanted to bring you back because it's a new year, and I know a lot of men who are listening are setting goals. And one of the goals, some of these guys are probably setting is to lose some weight this one of the goals some of these guys are probably setting is to lose some weight this year. And a lot of these guys who are making this goal have likely had this goal in years past, but they've failed. I'm curious in your experience as a coach and working with people trying to with, you know, body composition, body fat, losing body fat, what's the thing that holds people back from losing what are you seeing the most common roadblocks? Well, first off, I have to take a a shout out to both Earl Nightingale and Derek Sivers for this little tool I use. It's called it's it's called the two number goal sheet. And the idea is very simple, is you find two numbers that are important to you. Now, Let's just focus on let's just focus on what you're asking. Now, I use a physical goal, which is for this Dolby body weight. And like a financial goal. But it can be I mean, it could it could be anything. I think a number helps because it's so clear cut. Like, if you have this vague, guys, if if I was to say to you, hey, you know, I wanna lose a few pounds. Well, that that just that just floats off at course, I can say that. I I pushed air past my vocal cords. I didn't say anything. You know? So I have a goal this year. In fact, it's coming up the date that it's due is gonna be February twelfth. I wanna get down to two eleven pounds, which is ninety six kilos. So at the start of last year, I weighed two fifty ones, so it's gonna be a a forty pound body weight loss in a year and month. Well, why? Well, because this will be the sixty fifth time that I have gone around the sun. Okay? And when you turn sixty five as a weight lifter, you move into the sixty five to sixty nine year old weight class at division. So so what does two eleven mean to me? It it doesn't mean anything except it's ninety six. Kilos. And that's the class. I have to wait under them. Okay. Good. We'll just start with that for second. Well, let's think about that. Am I healthier? The health is I use MAPFETONE's definition. The optimal, you know, interplay of the human organs Will I be healthier at two eleven versus two fifty one? Is that forty pounds at eight sixty five Will that loss make me healthier? Well, I know from blood tests and blood tests and blood pressure and all the other stuff. I am healthier right now, I weigh about two twenty one. I am healthier at two twenty one than I am at two fifty one. I have a new grandson this year, Leo. People in my family don't live very long. So will my longevity improve at two eleven versus two fifty one. Well, I can think well, yeah. Logically, I think so. I don't smoke. I wear seatbelts. I I see the doctor every year. You know, I do the stuff you're supposed to do. So I think weighing two eleven will help with my staying around for Leo and my other grandchildren Danny and Josephine, will I be fitter? At two eleven versus two fifty one. Well, fitness's ability to do a task. So, you know, I still everyone still asked me to move couches. And refrigerators. And but I think I'll be fitter at two 11. And then finally in, when it comes to performance, I think I have a better chance of being an American record holder and maybe a world record holder at 96 kilos versus heavier than And then finally, in when it comes to performance, I think I have a better chance of being an American record holder, maybe a world record holder at ninety six kilos versus heavier than that. And then the final thing, and you can take this however you wanna take it. Art Devaney a few years ago said that vanity after a certain years is a great reason to work out. Now vanity comes from, you know, Latin, you know, means empty. But actually, at my age sixty five, vanity is probably not a bad fifth reason to do something. Please listen to what I try to say that. It's not just stepping on a scale and weighing two eleven, which is great, but there's meat behind that goal for me. There's my grandchildren showed up in this conversation. My overall health showed up. My weightlifter showed up. I'll look better to up. I I look better. To me, that's what you need when you look at a fitness goal. It needs to have Brett, it needs to have It has to be full. It has to be right, but it has to be rich. It has to be rich. Juicy. Rich. Yeah. You're with me. Yeah. You know, if you're gonna have a dessert, you say like you're trying to lose weight. And someone says, do you want a bowl of vanilla ice cream? Well, okay, that's a lot better than a, you know, I don't know, something, you know, here would you like a mint? Okay. Nah. Nah. Nah. Nah. I'm on a diet. Bull vanilla ice cream. Nah, I spent, this is my grandmother's No. I spent this is my grandmother's recipe. I spent six weeks putting this together. And I'm just gonna light the match and flame it off. And would you like some of that dessert? Well, yeah, that's that that's a little bit richer of a story than a bowl of vanilla. So for me, I think what happens with most people's goals. It pred is that they have very vanilla goals. They have these vague numbers out there. They have this here. Yeah. I wanna lose a few pounds. You know, I I like to spend more time with my kid our kids. I'd like to, you know, Do you see how blah that all was? Right. But when I talk about stepping on the scale, the weightlifter meat, under two hundred and eleven pounds, under ninety six k, and then step it on the platform not long after that and snatch and clean the jerk. And that just that just kind of makes me excited, and that's I think the key. Okay. So, yeah, a lot of people just give up on their goals because there's really nothing there to it. You know, if it's just a number that's not gonna be too motivating. Yeah. You need to have every goal you set has to enrich kind of several areas of your life has to light up your brain in different places. You know, I gotta tell you, you know, if if I was a performer, one of the things I would try to do is, for example, maybe sprinkle the audience This time here, I put those cinnamon pine cones in front of a I have this electric fan heater in the house, and I like to Put those cinnamon pine cones down stream with the heater blower, you know. So it makes the whole house smell like cinnamon. And if I was performer, I would always be blowing cinnamon into my audience. You know? Besides just me being on stage with my Tar singing, you know, love ballads from the nineteen fifties, I would try to have something else going on. I would try to in light light up every sense I can, light up every part of the brain that I could. Well, I feel the same way about goal setting. You gotta make it. You gotta be able to taste it, smell it, see it, hear it. Does that make make sense? That makes Does that make sense? And so when you're measuring this, say you set this goal, you wanna lose body fat, the scale is gonna play a But do you have any other ways you measure fat loss that you like to use? Yeah. Right here on my desk, because I'm sitting here, I have two things called tape measures. I suggest you measure Now, it's difficult because your waistline Anybody's ever wear a measure of waistline will tell you. Your waistline, not the measurement, but where you put your tape changes a little bit every day. I think measuring your waistline every day is a really good little thing. And if it And the other thing I'd recommend, Brett, is this, use a centimeter ruler. And the reason is if you go from thirty nine and fifteen sixteenths down to thirty nine and, I don't know, three eighths. That doesn't mean much. But if you go from a hundred and four centimeters, to ninety nine. That's just we humans, for whatever reason, that's like, wow. That's a big change. And if you can go, so I'm a big fan of measuring your waistline in centimeters. Gotcha. Alright. So measuring radius scale, we're gonna use measuring tape. I like Mio I like myo tape. That's the one that I use like five bucks on That's the one that I use. It's like five bucks on Amazon. Really easy to use. And if Bradford can I add one more? We used to call them movement buddies or bragging buddies. If you have somebody in your life that you can trust, I would move outside of people in your if you have somebody in your life that you can trust, I would move outside of people in your home. But somebody that will give you a feedback on how you look and how you're doing. A bragging buddy. Someone you could talk to on a weekly someone you could talk to on a weekly basis, these are the good things going on in my life. And it's it's more than a therapist. In fact, in the old Irish, the word is anam, Quora, and not a beautiful word, soul friend. Someone you can just say, who will look at you and say, you look good. You you look happy, you know, and be, oh, thank you so much. And the the thing about a soul friend if you both you have to listen to each other, which is a difficult thing sometimes. Yeah. How frequently do you recommend people measuring themselves for the when they're gauging their fat loss? Well, you know, guys like Clarence Bass say every day you should weigh in and do the the the tape measure. If you already keep a journal. If you already have a notebook that you keep the information in, I would say, daily. If you're new to it, maybe you might wanna have an event, you know, like and, boy, some people disagree with me here, but the Monday morning weigh in. You know, every Monday morning, you make well, if you don't have to it could be Saturday, but it doesn't matter. But one day week you pick to do the weigh in and the measurement, and sorta make it a big deal to yourself. Gotcha. I I perfectly I like the once a week. I do mine on Friday morning. Okay. Because I feel like through the Monday morning, the problem I've had there is that I have, like, a big Sunday night dinner at my in loss place. Mhmm. And that just throws everything off. Because, you know, I'm I'm kinda bloated and I'm retaining water because I, you know, some rolls and some cheesecake or whatever. And so I'm just gonna be heavier. I'm gonna look heavier on the way heavier. But then, like, the next day, if I wait myself on Tuesday, I'd be back to normal. So I I that I timed my weigh ins on when I think, like, this is like a normal day not, like, right after I had a big meal. And that seemed to work me. Yeah. And if, you know, if if you are someone who lifts weights three days a week, maybe Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday, Wednesday, Saturday, if you wanna do something like that where you have just a day where it's quiet and you So your workout for that day would be the weigh in and the tape measure. Okay. Let's start with this. What's a, like, a reasonable fat loss goal for Billing. So you you've lost almost forty pounds in thirteen months, fourteen months -- Mhmm. -- for a lot of people. What do you think is a reasonable goal? If there's someone who's losing who needs to lose twenty five to fifty pounds? How long should they expect that to take? See. Wait. Here we run into it. Don't we? Downey seriously. This is where we run into it. When I work with people, one of the things that comes up a lot, Brett, is that it took the person forty years to put this weight on but they want to lose that weight in two weeks. And this is not reasonable. When I'm in Europe, most of the people that I trust will tell me about a kilo a month, which is only two point two pounds. That's only half a pound a week, and that's not very noticeable And most people, if I put you on a weightlifter a fat loss program, and you lost two pounds a month, I gotta tell you, next New Year's, it's gonna be very noticeable for you. But what happens is as people don't want that when I when I my first month now with a fat loss client, and I I and kind of insist on being paid upfront, is the first month is that the first month. You have to drink two glasses of water a day. And that's it. And, of course, I become your accountability buddy. And at nine o'clock or eight o'clock, whatever time I call you up and the joke is always this. I call you up and the phone goes, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, because that's when you're drinking that second glass of water. And month two, we just find a parking space that's as far away from your office or whatever that we can find. And I tell everybody that you work with, if you're not if you if you don't park there, you're gonna call me and I'm gonna fire you as a client. Now people say, no. That makes no sense. No. No. It does because one of the things we need to establish first in a fat loss protocol is building up the practice of habits. And I'm a I really like the work of b j fog. So the letter b, the letter j, FOGG. He's a Stanford Psychologist. And he believes in something called tiny habits. So you actually make when you're trying to do a life change, you don't say, I'm gonna this year, I'm gonna lose one hundred pounds. I'm gonna get a doctorate in two different fields and I'm gonna fly to the moon. Now you say, I'm gonna floss one tooth every day for the first month. Well, one tooth. Well, that's that's actually a standard start because it's so small and so believable. I mean, there's more to it than this this. That you start to have this this the snowball effect. This little habit builds to a bigger one, to a bigger one, to a bigger one. My best client I've ever had, we did the one year thing, and the first month was the glass of water thing. At the end, now this is this is unusual. This is off the charts. At the end of the year, he had lost one hundred pounds of body weight and ran a half marathon. One hundred pounds. Let me say that again. He lost a hundred pounds in a year. But what happened was was once he got the momentum of the habits, everything just started to come into play. And he was shocked that he began to look at some of the things he was doing in his life and was like, there were just so many obvious things for him. But once he got into the habit of doing things, he really started getting momentum. To me, fat loss is just like an athletic career. Maybe you're going in different directions, but Once you get the momentum, things just start to almost appear to you. Like, if if I was to train you as Brett as a discus store, you might say I've never even heard of what the discus is, but all of sudden you'll be online and all of sudden these things will just you'll be open a book and you'll see a discus thrower in there. For example, when I read the odyssey, Ulysses is a discus author. There's a very famous story in the odyssey where he wins the discus competition. Where I see that because I'm a dinosaur. So when you're trying to lose fat and you start to get those habits, the snowball begins to thrower. of a sudden, you see these little things in your life that you used to do. Remember, you are the sum of your habits as you sit in this chair as we speak. What you look like? What you have is income? What you have is in your social and your family life, it's all the accumulation of the habits you've had since, really, you started having your own free will. Basically when you start walking for yourself. Okay. So it sounds like rather than just factHis on the number you wanna get to, just focus on the process. You focus on those habits. And as you do that, things are gonna start to gel. Things are gonna start to click for you. Yeah. Well, see, one of my habits is to weigh in every day. But I don't even I don't even think about it like that anymore, to be honest with you. I I don't think about it as Isn't that interesting? So I I wait I do the waste line every day now and I do the weigh in every day, but I didn't for a long time But once I started seeing that body weight accelerate down, boy, I gotta tell you, from two fifty one to two thirty one, it wasn't very exciting. But when I got to two twenty four, which is the hundred and two kilo weight class, and I lifted in three meats as hundred and two, four meats. And then all of a sudden, I was down to two eighteen. It was like, man, let's just drop down to two eleven. And I started weighing in every day because it was kind of exciting. So you've had some you've had some, you know, serious momentum this year with your own fat loss. Have did you ever meet any, like, plateaus or roadblocks along the way. We're like, ah, man. Stop budging anymore. Yeah. Here in Utah, it's called the winter. Winter. Winter's tough. You know, all of a sudden, you just last night at eleven o'clock, I was I was shoveling in this morning. six o'clock, I was shoveling. And when I went outside to work out at nine thirty tonight, I didn't wanna go back out in the cold. And I just wanted to I really just wanted to put a blanket on and, you know, eat something would make me happy and, you know yeah. So yeah. So so the big the big roadblocks for me tend to be winter Thanksgiving, Christmas. The same roadblocks, all of us have. I don't know how much of your audience is American, but basically, Once bowl season comes around, ice tend to sit around a lot and watch college football and then why I'm sitting around. My choice is for my choices for beverages, go south, my choices for you know, all of a sudden I find myself eating other day I was eating pretzels. What? And I kind of just caught myself like, why am I eating pretzels? You know, I just It's not a food I eat and yet I was eating And I think I hope you're falling along here, Brett, because we all have the same ebbs and flows. What's nice about where I'm at now is at the next day, I I actually spend some time. We're only doing audio here, but right. Knowing, picking up this little it's a little notebook I have, it's called a memo book, 60 I'm picking up this little it's a little notebook I have. It's called the memobook sixty sheets. And every day, I write in a few ideas about how I can get my body weight down to two eleven. Well, after this college football ballgame incident, I decided that next week, I'm gonna start do I'm gonna do once again, Rusty Moore's fat loss boost. It I've done it once before. It's just two weeks, but basically it's chicken and vegetables every day. That's what you eat for two weeks. Now, I eat vegetable soups, I eat big salads, I this isn't for everybody, but I decided that because I really wanna weigh two eleven at this meet, that when we get back from the bowl, I am gonna, you know, take care of business in two weeks. Which nice is it it's almost it'll be, what, almost a full month after the pretzel incident. Okay? I hope you're following here. I gave myself permission to make a mistake, and then I came up with a plan. And I think that's important. You can't just say, oh, I'm eating pretzels and drinking this thing I shouldn't be drinking. Oh, forget it. I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna wait until the next decade to get in shape. You know, address the issue. Look at it, come up with a positive plan and reboot. Okay. Alright. So, yeah, I like that. So first thing, make your goals rich, measure yourself daily or weekly. And then if you have set like, plan for setbacks, there's probably gonna be setbacks along the way because we're human beings. No. Would there are set Yes. There are set badings, there's any Yeah. There's trees, there's birthdays, there's there's all kinds of things. Here's one interesting thing I have noticed though. I started telling people so some of the people I work with go to these all inclusive vacations now. And one of the things I tell them now is here's the weirdest thing. Most people come back from all inclusive vacations lighter. They're when they step on the scale after an all inclusive vacation, they're lighter. And they'll look at me like I'm crazy. No. First off, you sleep more finely. You play on the beach, great. When you go to the buffet and it's all you can eat, for whatever reason, people when they're given all you can eat, they relax they they de stress and they come back lighter. So even when you decide sometimes if you actively decide, I'm gonna go on this vacation, I'm gonna go on this vacation in June, and I'm gonna have a great time. And I'm not going to worry about my body I'm not gonna worry about my body weightlifter people come back lighter on the scale. So I think we humans have to just acknowledge that there are times to plant and times to sow, there's time, you know, there's a time for everything under sun. And I think the mistake is is just saying, I am overweight. I'm gonna exercise and not eat. That's just not a good plan. Okay. So you've got let's talk about, like, the the how of how to lose fat. Sure. You've got this really surprisingly simple outline for fat loss that you've based on your easy strength program. And we'll talk about each of the components of your approach, but it all starts with food. You co author book with Joshua and you guys suggest when it comes to food, people shift focus on three things, quantity, quality, and ratio. Can you walk us through those three components? We'll make it even simpler for you. This is what I was told that you want the training center by the dietitian. I don't know what the big deal is, eat protein, eat veggies, drink water. And I remember looking at her going, I'm in the wrong career field man. But it it comes down to, honestly, my good friend, Pat Flynn, he talks about this. First, if you focus on getting enough protein in your diet. I'm gonna up my protein because protein has this ability to make you feel full, All the other things seem to work themselves out. I I like that kind of approach. My personal approach is I try to eat eight different vegetables every day. This is my personal approach. And what you need to do is just have I worry about because this is more Josh's field than I'm just you know, I'm just I just kneel at his feet. But I think the key is this. Pick something like Pat says, I'm gonna make sure I get my protein every day. Pat's a big believer in starting the day with a protein shake. I believe in fasting. Until I work out. We're not disagreeing. It's it's it's not an either or to both and. For me, if I because I it's easy for me to get my approach It's always been easy because I grew up in the sixties with strength in health magazine and protein was like a god. Okay? But for me, the vegetables has always been the issue. So for me, by focusing on getting the vegetables in, I take care of the protein just naturally. And drink a lot of water. So when it comes to things like quantity, if you have vegetable soup and a big salad at every meal and a protein source after you have that big bowl of the vegetable soup that I have, big bowl is one hundred and twenty calories. The salad that I make probably is negative calories. I don't I don't I I really and then there's this this protein. After you eat that, then feel free to eat anything else to fill you up because here's the thing. You're satiated. You're full. Anything you eat after that is something you wanna do to make your taste buds happy and make that, you know, that infant part of your brain happy. When it comes to quality, you know, I I used to make this joke about this diet I had invented where you had to eat every day, two pounds of salmon, a dozen eggs, a container of cottage cheese, a carton of blueberries. It was it was a list that they had in men's health magazine. And I said after you'd all that, feel free to eat anything else you want. Well, of course, if you can push down two pounds of salmon and twelve eggs every day, you're not gonna be very hungry. So that's where the quality side of things comes in. You probably can eat a lot more fried chicken than you than you can bake salmon. Would you agree with that? Yeah. I would agree with that. Or even like you can eat more potato chips than you can just like a baked potato. You can eat more calories and potato chips can eat more calories and potato chips easily than you could baked potatoes. Right. Right. To me, those are the cliche time. Those are the big rocks of nutrition in my world. If you're not used to eating a lot of protein, focus on protein sources. If you're like me and you struggle on the vegetable side, get your vegetables in. And, really, I don't even know why we even talk about this anymore, but, you know, drink water. And I'm fine with any any calorie free drink you you decide to do. Somebody not long ago said something to me because I when I go out, I tend to drink diet sodas. And they said, aren't they bad for you? And I'm like, okay. Yeah. Okay. They're really, it's the diet They're they're yeah. Really, it's the diet soda. It's the I'm I'm not, you know, on a Friday night, I'm having a diet soda. Yeah. That's the problem in this with my body. Is that yeah. So stop. We've got to draw the line sometimes someplace. Everything's bad for you. It's gonna make a very difficult for you to move ahead on your fitness and launch Japanese cults. We're gonna We're gonna take a quick break for your words, more take a quick break for your words sponsors. So if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know about sax underwear, they've been a long time if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know about Saks underwear, they've been a longtime sponsor. 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And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code Manliness to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain that's squarespace.com/manliness and code Manliness to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or when you're ready to launch, use the offer code in Manliness to save ten percent off your first purchase of website or domain. So That's squarespace dot com slash manliness and code manliness to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. And now back to the show. So for those who were just starting out, you know, for you you've been doing this for how many forty odd years, fifty years maybe? I've been lifting since nineteen sixty five. Okay. So you have good idea of like, okay, this is this has this amount of proteins awesomely I'm getting my proteins processed. For those who are just starting out, would it would it be useful to measure things out and kind of look at a, like, a buddy fitness buddy or whatever fitness pal? Oh, that would be really good. If you have if you have the ability to do that and keep doing it, that's money. For most of us, we just use I'm I'm looking at the palm of my hand. Make sure you have a palm sized protein in every meal. And then I would say and then make it the most everything else on the plate is as colorful as can be, as many vegetables as appropriate. One thing that I have in trying a friend of mine mentioned this is eat fruits One thing I have in trying a friend of mine mentioned this, is eat fruits separately. And so now my snack is an apple. No. No. And I'm not a lunatic gentle listener. I'm just saying that this one person said to me, make fruit your snacks. And I don't really snack very often. I'm I basically eat about two meals a day. But if I do snack, I try to snack on fruit. So you eat two meals a day. How much protein do you think you're getting those two meals? Like, a lot. Yeah. So mean, I think what's the measurement they give you? It's like one I mean, point eight grams per pound of body weight So if you're I mean if I mean, I or you can just round it up to, like, one gram. So, I mean, if you're a two hundred pound male, you're looking at, you know, close to hundred grams per day. Yeah. Yeah. 90, we, I like the gram to Ninety. We I like the graham to kilos. So if you're a two hundred pound male, you're basically ninety kilos ninety one. So that's ninety grams a day. The protein shakes that I buy at the store here called they're thirty grams of protein per container. And oh, okay. So here's another snack I do. I take the cereal called Fiber One and I put it in a bowl and then I take that I think it's called I don't know the brand name, but it's thirty grams of protein and I pour the protein as milk Yeah. I've done that. And that's a nice little snack. And the reason I'll eat something like that is if I'm trying to push hunger off until Say like dinner tonight's at seven. I ate brunch at eleven, and dinner's at seven. Maybe at three or four. I'll eat that fiber one protein drink meal. And the amount of fiber and the protein halts it. It is strange to talk to people about protein because awesomely people like, how do you get enough protein in your in your diet? I'll look at them like, how do you not? And then I'll look at what they eat on a typical day. They'll start their day with orange juice, two pieces of toast, a bagel, and then it and I'm always hungry. Well, yeah, you're hungry because you haven't eaten any protein and you haven't had any and the problem with toast and bagels and stuff like that is your body really processes them quickly. The glycemic index on them is really high. So you're always kind of in a starvation mode. You know, if you like Pat Flynn's approach starting your day with thirty grams of protein. Some people tell me, yeah, I weirdly get hungrier starting the day with a protein drink. And my thought is, well, you know, why don't you eat just eat? Then three eggs is, you know, about the same, four eggs, you know, whatever it is. So yeah. It to me, I have hard time believing you can't get enough protein your diet until I talk to people about what they eat, and then it makes more sense. Okay? It sounds like with engineers, like, you're not overthinking the stuff too much, at least the the nutrition part, just like get protein and then vegetables and That's it. Like, if you're doing that, you're probably doing good. Like, well, that's where she told me at the Olympic Training Center. Eat protein and vegetables, drink water, and then the great line, I don't know why people make it such big deal. So on this drinking water, you had this bit I read somewhere. Yeah. You encourage people to drink warm water. What's going on there? Okay. This is because it sounds like, what? This sounds like I don't know. Okay. Okay. Voodoo alert. Okay. Gentle listener. Alright. But It's hot water. And here's ago I was at dinner with the Pavel Pavel, the kettlebell okay. Hot water. Years ago, I was at dinner with the Powell you know, Powell, the kettlebell guy. Yeah. Yeah. Sensitively. Yeah. So we're sitting around and this we've we've had dinner before and and he and after dinner, he orders the two of us hot water with lemon. And he kinda elbows me and says, it's proved to help your digestion. So after this big dinner and trust me when you go out with catabelle people, your dinner is gonna be meat. Okay? It's gonna be meat. And, like, you know, if I'm sitting there drinking this hot water with lemon, I'm like, That's interesting. A couple of years later, my daughter, Kelly, is telling me about the benefits of drinking hot water. Well, then I had a friend say, well, that's just basic aerovaedic medicine. So I went out and I purchased as much as I aerovitic medicine is the traditional medicine of India. And I read the work of John Dooliard. He's over at life spa in Denver. And he recommends for fat loss, drinking hot water with lemon. Now Powell says it's good for your digestion. Kelly tells me it's good for fat loss. And, you know, here it is. This other person says, and so I started doing it in the afternoons. I have a hot pot And then I have those bottles of concentrated lemon juice, you know? Yeah. And I and I add it. So as I'm working, I drink it. Here's what I like best. And here's what my daughter, Kelly, told me too. My daughter, Kelly, is my DNA. She I mean, she's she is me. And we both have this condition. Are you ready, Brett, that condition there, which is so Are you ready, Brett? That condition there, which is so annoying. I'm the person at the movie going. Once I started drinking hot water at the lemon, it stopped. And someone said, well, that's just because it cleans out your mucus. And I'm like, hey, man, as long as I'm not making noise at the movie, I'm happy with that too. So, okay, whether or not it actually clears out mucus, I don't know. Whether or not that assists with fat loss I think it might. It it is a bit of a diuretic of I as I've noticed, my joke is I drink one cup and p two, but it does seem to do something and it could be as simple as this. While I'm drinking hot water, I am satisfying my taste buds, my throat, my tummy, and I'm sticking something in my mouth that isn't caloric and isn't adding to my body fat density. Or and and then finally, let's go to the because you always have to go to the extreme. It's a magical substance that goes into your fat cells and eats them there. Okay. That's always a possibility. Now, I tried deal. I was like, after I read that, I was like, oh, I'm gonna try this. And I'll I'll something I noticed, like, when I was drink I got pretty sweaty. Like, I was getting hot. Yeah. Me too. Just from drinking hot water, which was interesting. But I I liked it. It was a way to drink liquids that was different from just drinking lukewarm tap water Yeah. And it it was enjoyable. And at at least, it's it's helping you get more water, which is essential for health. If all it is is that okay. For me, I stopped doing the nonsense. It stops it. Maybe it does. Maybe it hydrates us up. Maybe it raises that basal metabolism up a few drops. Okay? Mhmm. Maybe it is, makes the body have to work a little harder to cool that stuff down, which don't know, you know. And now I'm just spitballing. Nice. Or maybe which is the only correct answer, is that the hot water and the lemon go out and actively kill fat cells, like, you know, kinda like Luke Skywalker and Death Stars. Okay? There you go. It targets It targets it. It's Yeah. It's it's got that's the only logical. It's the only you're gonna answer, Akam's race. But yeah. Yeah. Having said it though, and this is so hard to to say this without kinda going without shaking my head, which I'm doing, it seems to really work for me. Yeah. Okay. By the way, gentle listener, how much do I make on telling you to drink hot water with a little a little hint of lemonade? Yeah. I don't make a nickel. It's like me telling you to sleep more drink, know, sleep more drink hot water. You know, I'm not gonna make billion dollars on this. Yeah. So I guess, give it a shot. It might might work for you. So let me talk about the the nutrition component and it's pretty easy. Nothing to you don't have to think too hard about it. No. You've mentioned you're big fan of intermittent fasting for fat loss. That's your way to go. Why is that? Do you think that's working for you? Well, I'm not proud of what I'm about to say, but I got to the point as an athlete that if I didn't, if I wasn't shoving something down my throat every hour, I felt like I was getting behind the I'm not proud of what I'm about to say, but I got to the point as an athlete that if I didn't If I wasn't shoveling something down my throat every hour, I felt like I was getting behind the Russians. Okay? I did. And then, you know, I just and I never really learned to discern the difference between craving mild hunger and starving. And what I learned and it's there's nothing new to it. Every every faith tradition has fasting is part of it. Everyone, every single faith tradition has it. One day, I just kind of I was listening to all these people talking about this stuff and I'm like And and I started to fast and I realized, what a gap there was that I'm not bragging, Brett, but I I have tremendous self discipline except when it came to fasting. And what I did is I realized this team of horses that was food was just pulling me around. And I had to tame that a little bit. So for me, personally, intermittent fasting did first. Taught me to deal with what hunger is versus starvation. Okay? That assists me. And then I started noticing something. Is in those periods where I'm not constantly shoveling food down, it gave my body a chance to digest. I'm a big believer in the gut biome stuff too, you know, having a healthy colony inside the floor and fauna inside of your your your gut. By not constantly shoveling things down there, they had to be lot more I I enhance them. Fasting enhances the gut panel. And I also began to notice that if I could fast and so I I just I don't just react to food anymore. So I have this a better skill set to go, Dan, do you want do you want banana bread? Well, no. Let me do this first. Let me Let me get some, you know, and whatever. I'm gonna eat some kimchi with, you know, I'm gonna have a little sound, a piece of chicken, and some kimchi. And then when they then they say, do you want banana bread? I made it myself. I'll look over and go, you made this yourself and I'll have a reasonable piece of it. Enjoy it. Smile, and be done with it. It's giving me control over my food. The other thing now I was at a workshop one time, and this person who said didn't agree with, said that fasting cardio has no value at all. I think you're missing the point. They were thinking of the body as a machine, which is fine. Because parts of our body is machined. it's. We are machines in certain places, but I think they miss the point that when you're doing something like faster cardio, like in my case, faster workouts, I can work out really hard in the morning now because I'm not also digesting breakfast because I, I don't eat until I've got my work and my workout we are machines in certain places. But I think they missed the point that when you're doing something like fasted cardiac, in my case, fasted workouts, I can work out really hard in the morning now because I'm not also digesting breakfast. Because I I don't eat until I've got my work and my workout in. So Powell said one time that what he likes so much about intermittent fasting is how it made you like a hunter. Okay? There's a word in hawking Yarick, YARAK. And it's that eyes that a raptor has when it's looking for food. When I'm when I'm fasting and I've got to write something. My I I mean, I am glued to the screen. When I'm fasting and I go work out, Like, today, it was cold, and I hadn't had any food, and I was shivering, you know, I was doing my workout. And man, like, look, even right now, as I'm explaining to you, Brett, my eyes are, like, all filled like, let's go take care. Let's go fight this, you know, war in the air. And so that that's why I like it so much. I like what it does, my ability to deal with I like what it does my ability to deal with food first. I like what it does for my work as an author, and then I really like what it does. From my focus in my workouts. And if intermittent fasting is something you wanna do, there's different protocols. I mean, there's different ways to do it. You could certainly I mean, you could, you know, you could do something as simple as fast modified diets that's falter longos work where Once a month, you take a three or four day period and eat eight hundred calories a day. You could do the five, two, where two days a week, you fast. Another great one, one day a week, you eat dinner, and then you don't eat until the next dinner. You know, that's pretty simple. Right? Anything you can do to kinda get control of your don't take this wrong, and I'm not against capitalism, but every time I turn the television set, they are selling me you know, I was just watching. I don't mention the brand, but it's this this fried greasy chicken sandwich. And it's and it's mouth watering or something like that, they said, well, I watch that and it'll be like, I can now turn off mentally that commercial. My skill, because I fast, I'm I built up the muscle of turning off instant gratification. And there's a few listeners who're probably going, I think I know what he means. You know? Be able to slow things down when it comes to shoveling things down your throat. And what's your protocol right now? Do you how long do you fast? When do you break when do you break your fast? Yes. So I basically almost always eat between five and six o'clock at night at dinner. I get up at about most days five or six in the morning. I meditate for fifteen minutes. That's the first That's the first thing. And then I go online and I do all my emails. I write whatever I have to write. At about nine o'clock, I get ready to work out at nine thirty. All these people come over to train with me. We work out till about ten thirty. And basically about eleven I eat. So well, I don't know. What is that? That's sneaking up on eighteen hours, I guess. Yeah. Okay. But for me, working out in a fasted state is to to use the phrase money. Money. Money, baby. Money. Talk about the exercise program you recommend for fat loss. It's easy strength. And give us big picture overview of the exercise we're focusing on here and, like, how many times we're training work, etcetera. Okay? But there's the there's the million dollar thing at the end of it. Okay? So if you can, in your perfect world, if you wanna If you if you wanna do the Dan John method of easy fat loss, if you can come into your workout faster. That's well, of course, Technically, if you're not shoveling food down your throat right now, you're fasting, technically. But the idea is this. All you're trying to do is and this comes from rustic more is get yourself to free up some free fatty acids. The easiest way I know is easy strength. So basically, we're gonna do vertical press, an overhead press, dumbbell press, dumbbell press, kettlebell press. Maybe three sets of thrower. Some kind of vertical pull that can be lat pull downs, chin ups, pull ups. Get about a about a total if it's chin ups or pull ups, maybe two sets of five, if you can do that, three sets of three, or lack pull downs you might have to do kind of hinge movement. I love the dead lift family. I love next, the ab wheel. The ab wheel is one of the most underrated pieces of equipment in the world. One set of ten is all you need because with this program, you're gonna do it three to five times week. Okay? So one set of ten daily is pretty good. If you know how to kettlebell swing, great. If not, whatever it takes, but if you're gonna do kettlebell swings, it'd be about five sets of fifteen. You're just trying to get your heart rate up a little, but here's the key. So Overhead, press three sets of three. Pull ups, three sets of three. Three sets of three in the deadlift, one set of ten in the add wheel, go out the door and walk for thirty or forty five minutes. As you're walking, your body's just released a whole bunch of stuff, your heart rates elevated, Once you start walking, your body now has a chance to quit investing more. And I think he's right because it's worked so simply for me. Is now you freed up the free fatty acids and now as your walk, your body is like a Pac man eating those free fatty acids. Here's the thing again, it's like drinking the hot water, Here's the thing. Again, it's like drinking the hot water, man. Is it a hundred percent true? I don't know, but it works. So this short workout, we're looking at ten to fifteen minutes of workout, and then the the half hour forty five minute walk has just been the most illuminating change in my career. And again, like the nutrition stuff, this is really easy. I mean, I think a lot of people people think they got to spend an hour in the gym. Here it's fifteen minutes. You don't even need gym. You just need a kettlebell and a pull up bar, you'll be You need a kettlebell and a pull up bar You'll be A dumbbell. Yeah. Dumbbell and you're you're set. And and if you can't find a place to do pull ups, just do rows or something like that. Just And and no matter what no matter what I say, of course, people gonna throw up, you know, what about I don't have this. I don't okay. You can make this work. I mean, you can do calisthenics. But the idea, get those calisthenics in. Don't kill yourself and then go for the walk. And, yes, it is easy. And I think that's why it works so well. I honestly think that most people put themselves in such a state of not just physical exhaustion, but even like, you know, when people think about losing fat, very often they go to the seven deadly sins and they think as a sloth or slows and gluttony. And so, I'm a counter that by eating rabbit food and making myself a physical wreck. And the problem is all that does is hurt your joints, makes you lose lean body mass, You'll lose lean body mass, but keep the fat because you're freaking your body out. What I'm trying to do with the easy strength for fat loss protocol, is coach your body and say, hey, things are fine. Things are Yeah. We We fasted. We had to work out. But now, We have a nice meal. Here's some protein. Here's some vegetables. See, things are fine, and the body looks up to me and says, thank you for being so kind. Let's drop some of those fat cells. Shall we? Yeah. Let's do that. And then we We send Luke Skywalker in with that hot water with lemon issue. Alright. Is this yeah. You're not putting on a hair shirt to lose weightlifter. And you're not beating yourself. And here's the funny thing, is that this is an a thing that we've lost in my in the fitness industry. Is nudging yourself in the fat loss. Could you imagine I always use when I talk about weightlifting, I always use the idea of learning how to type Could you imagine you had someone standing next to you as you were learning the type? Screening your ear. It's all you you're look, you know, hit that a. Hit that a. You know, with your pinky. Hit that eight. Come on, man. Go. Go. Go. What would you what would it look like on the screen if someone was screaming at you where the letters were? It would look terrible. So how you learn how to type is you go in every day and you type and you make a mistake, you correct it, you make a mistake, you correct it. Pretty soon there's less mistakes, pretty soon you flow. And one day, you end up like where I'm basically at now, where I can type almost as fast as I can think. And it's not ever because anyone's ever slapped my face or, you know, made me drink an energy drink before I went typing. I just nudged myself daily for a long time to become a better and better and better typeer. So if you nudge yourself if you fast and then you do this gentle this work, how do you push it? There's nothing wrong with going heavy in getting those those loads up. And then you go for a walk. And then you come home and you have protein veggies and you drink some water. And then later on, you have more protein, more veggies and drink some water. Maybe later on, that day you have more protein, more veggies, drinks water. Your body is not gonna go into this, oh, no. And if someone does offer you some kind of delightful delight that they worked hard on doing. Enjoy it. Just don't go to the machine and throw some cash in our user card and get some, you know, five hundred calorie candy bar. You know, pick and choose, be an adult. I wanna talk more about this walk because you're a big proponent of walking. So you're gonna do your fifteen minute workout in the gym, and then you're gonna go for a thirty to forty five minute walk. Mhmm. But you've also thrown awesomely ways you can make the walk a a bit more strenuous. You have this idea of reverse racking. What's that? Okay. Reverse Reverse racking. Okay. Yeah. You read you read my work. Yeah. Red might work. That's a great line for the movie patent. Yeah. It's something I came up with a couple years ago. So I'd had a lot of success with some clients who are in the mid three hundreds body weight work with me. And honestly, all I tried to do Well, it would be the simple thing. You know? First, we'd start off with the two glasses of water and then, you know but once we got them walking, you know, like the one client that had he weighed three fifty. And boy, within I mean, it seemed like a blink of an eye. He was down to three twenty. And I'm thinking, man, I'm good, you know? And then I got to about two ninety and everything stalled. And then I had noticed that this had happened to somebody else years ago. And that kind of hit me. If you go for a a twenty minute walk, weighing three fifty, you are doing a loaded carry. And your body is getting hit hard. But here's the problem. As you lose weight, k? As you get lighter and lighter, you become the curse of what fat loss exercise is. All is all about. Fat loss exercise is about being as inefficient as you can be. So if you're an outstanding dancer, and we take a dance class together, I'm gonna be dying next to you while you just go step ball chain, step ball change. So as this person went walking at three fifty, three forty, three thirty five, that added load of their own body mass made walking very inefficient. Once they slid to about two ninety, they began to become more and more efficient as a walker So what we began to do then was add a very simple school backpack is just fine. And at first, doesn't have to be very much weight. You can throw in a single five pound weight or a single ten pound weight. Now you gotta be careful here because most people are gonna overdo what we're about to say. And as they drop now to two eighty, maybe you wanna increase that to fifteen pounds, two seventy, two sixty, maybe go get up to about thirty. Once you get around thirty to thirty five pounds, fifteen kilos, there is not a lot of value and adding weight to the backpack anymore. Now, you're gonna get people on your show who are military and they'll say, well, I carry you know, five thousand pound backpack. Okay. Good for you. But for fat loss, when you get to around thirty pounds, you kind of peek out with with the rock or the backpacking. So it's called reverse rocking because you're adding weight as the person's and make it an x with my hand, you add weight as the body mass goes down. Once you get to a certain weight, then I would put on ankle weights. Ankle weights are great anybody with all kinds of issues, the ankle weight makes you improve your weight without even thinking about it. And then after and I wouldn't go much over five pound ankle then I like to put heavy hands, weights in the hands. And I've discovered that honestly three pounds per hand, you get those little dumbbells that raws dress for less. That weigh three pounds, those are perfect for walking. They are pink, but they're still perfect for walking. So now can you always tell one of my clients because you see them walking down the street with a backpack, with a plate in the back, with bright green ankle weights and pink heavy hands. So I was like, you know, you got a Dan John person right there. Yeah. I have a Dan John. Yeah, the goal here, you're just trying to make the walk a little bit more efficient so that you can burn more calories. Exactly. Exactly. And here's the thing. You're still about that thirty to forty five minute range. The problem we have when you work with building into running and you can This isn't my phrase, but it's called the fat jogger syndrome, where the person runs more and more and more and becomes increasingly fatter as they run. It's not universal, but it does happen with some people because they become very efficient at running and they start doing what the runners call garbage miles. I'm a former track coach so I can use the phrase. It's just called garbage miles where you just get out there and it doesn't really help for body composition. Well, Dan, this has been a great conversation. I mean, we talked about a lot, and it's pretty simple. I mean, recap, make sure your goals are rich, that your weight loss or fat loss goals rich, measure yourself regularly. When you eat, get protein, vegetables, maybe intermittent fast, maybe drink some hot water to get the Luke Skywalker effect. And then the exercise is not hard. Fifteen minutes of the gym and then walk and then at some point maybe make your walk a bit more inefficient by adding some weight. Is that it? Yeah. Well, it's we've been doing this for a while, and I wish I could go back in time. And I wish when I first started coaching in nineteen seventy nine, I was having my people do this because it's it's so much better for fat loss and people are happier. The nice thing is you're not exhausted from the workout so you you make better choices on your meals. It is if I beat if I beat you to death, if I just beat you down on the workout, Brett, you're gonna wanna eat stuff that makes you happy. And I want you to eat you know, chicken thighs and a a salad and vegetable soup. Well, Dan John, working people gonna learn more about your work. Yeah. Well. Oh, and by the way, I talked to Brian he's extended that discount to your listeners again. Okay? And make sure if you could put that in the notes, it mean a lot to me. Yeah. Dan john university dot com. And if you put one word art of man. Make art of man one word, you get this massive discount. And a whole bunch of your listeners used it last time and We've opened it up again for you. So dan jon university dot com, and there's just I've got I mean, there's probably thousands of pages of downloadable, you know, actually books in some cases. Lots of articles in one of the best forms of on the Internet, very good people, very friendly. And also to There's a thing on there called the workout generator where you can just plug in, what equipment you have, how many days a week you wanna work out, you press a button, and it gives you your workouts. for the rest of life. It's it's I just it's what I wish I would've had when I first one online in nineteen ninety just it's just this incredible how it takes. It's the inside of my mind, but it's working with what you're telling us you can do. Now it's just it's it's this to me is what's the promise of the Internet. Well, Well, Dan, John, thanks for the Dan John, thanks for your time. It's always a pleasure. Oh, and I love your site. I love what you do. You make a difference. And that's really, you know, it's the highest praise I can give somebody. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you. My guest name is Dan John. He's the author of several books on health and fitness, including fat loss starts on Monday. Make sure check out his website, danjohn university dot com and use code art of man for a discount on his programs. Also, check out our show notes at A0M dot is slash fat loss. And also check out our website. We've got lots of articles habit formation. We did a podcast with BJ fall. You can check out there. We have some more articles there on fat loss, weight loss, getting healthy in the New Year. So check it out art of manliness dot com. Show notes a whim dot is slash fat loss. Well, that wraps up another edition of the a one podcast. Make sure to check out our website at art valance dot com where you find our podcast Archaic Usuals, thousands of articles were no fears about pretty much anything you'd think of. And if you'd like to enjoy ad free episodes of the AUM podcast, you can do so on Stitcher Premium. Head over to Stitcher Premium dot com, sign up, use code manually as checkout for a thrower month trial. Once you're signed up, download the Stitcher app on Android or iOS, and you start enjoying ad free episodes of the a one podcast. And if you haven't done this already, I'd appreciate if you take one minute to give us a review and have a podcaster Stitcher. helps out a lot. If you've done that already, thank you. 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