0:02

The athletic. Almost

0:06

three months on from Your Gun

0:08

Club announced his intention to stand

0:10

down. Liverpool have a Marks the

0:12

man deadlocked to replace him. Liverpool

0:14

have open negotiations with Feyenoord. For.

0:16

On a Slots. So why do

0:19

Liverpool want Feyenoord on a slot?

0:21

And is he the right personality

0:23

to replace cloth at unfilled? On

0:25

my you can win that A

0:28

welcome to the Athletic Fc podcast.

0:36

Said with us Today we have the

0:38

Athletics football correspondence, David old state and

0:40

reporter Adam Crafted who spent time with

0:42

Honest Lots of last year in Feyenoord

0:44

for an access all Areas pace David

0:46

that start with you So Liverpool have

0:49

landed on slot. As a man they'd

0:51

like to replace Yoga Club at the

0:53

time of recording David what is the

0:55

states have played at how was it

0:57

develops over the last forty eight hours

0:59

will be states or players that liverpool

1:01

on negotiating with Feyenoord to try and

1:04

reach an agreement strike a deal. That

1:06

would potentially see on the slots

1:08

take over as manager head coach

1:10

from Young drop in the summer.

1:13

Liverpool were already in contact with

1:15

only slots himself and it's our

1:17

understanding that he's enthusiastic about the

1:19

possibility of becoming Liverpool manager. But

1:21

of course a lot of talks

1:23

need to take place, not least

1:26

on compensation because there is no

1:28

release clause in his contract and

1:30

so Feyenoord can drive whatever bargain

1:32

they want. I think if he

1:34

would like to. Go. They're not

1:36

going to kill that dream, but the

1:39

terms do need to be right for

1:41

them because they intend to keep hold

1:43

of him. He's under contract until Twenty

1:46

Twenty Six. They showed last summer that

1:48

they're no pushovers because they drove a

1:50

hard bargain with Tottenham, and ultimately he

1:53

decided to stay. Similarly, Leeds United failed

1:55

to get the better of them and

1:57

they have been interest from other clubs.

2:00

as well. It does appear to

2:02

the outside that this is being

2:04

conducted in a fairly cordial manner.

2:06

Liverpool have tried to

2:08

be as respectful as possible, given

2:10

that final played in the Dutch

2:13

Cup final last Sunday and nothing

2:15

had come out before then, despite

2:17

the bookmakers odds shifting over the

2:19

weekend, particularly on Saturday ahead of

2:22

that game, but it wasn't until

2:24

Tuesday that reports started to emerge

2:26

and Liverpool intend to continue this

2:28

discreet approach as the negotiations continue,

2:30

try and keep it under the

2:32

radar and show respect

2:35

as the Dutch and the English

2:37

seasons draw towards a close

2:39

with jobs to be done at both clubs.

2:42

In terms of the background to this IO, Arnie Slott

2:44

is a name that's been in

2:46

contention for many positions, which is reflective

2:48

of the job that he's done at

2:50

Firenord, winning the Dutch

2:52

title for the first time in

2:55

six years. Previously with Azed Alkmaar,

2:57

he pushed Ajax very close before

3:00

the season was curtailed because of Covid

3:03

and the title of the Eredivisie

3:05

was awarded to Ajax. He

3:07

spoke to Chelsea, for example, last summer

3:10

as well and I'm sure

3:12

as Liverpool were running their data and

3:14

their analytics, given Arnie Slott's

3:16

credentials, his style of play, his

3:18

achievements, the qualities and the

3:20

way that he ticks a lot of the

3:22

boxes that Liverpool are looking for, that he

3:24

would have formed part of their thinking. But

3:27

as far as we know it hasn't really

3:29

gathered pace until pretty recently. Now

3:31

of course they may have just been

3:33

playing their cards close to their chest

3:35

and trying to keep this one as

3:37

far away from the public domain as

3:39

possible, but I do think it

3:41

is a more recent development and as

3:44

the process continues there remain other

3:46

names we're assured in the picture

3:49

and that would be typical of Michael Edwards,

3:51

CEO of Football

3:53

for Fenway Sports Group. He takes the

3:55

same approach for transfers juggling Various

3:58

balls, spinning multiple plates. In

4:00

case you have to pivot to different

4:02

scenarios, but he is the focus of

4:04

their attention for the time being. He

4:07

for leading candidates and. As

4:09

far as I know things are progressing

4:11

in the right direction. They're. Looking

4:13

good but it is not done yet

4:15

Adam I guess to me having met

4:18

the man as there is simply a

4:20

me was like yeah, so of years,

4:22

probably like it was last summer now

4:24

and Feyenoord had just one. Or.

4:26

The Dutch side, so so it was probably

4:28

as good as it. With. Ever get

4:30

a get at that point the oddest throughout

4:32

a slump because I find out because there

4:34

are likely. Denotes. A gun.

4:37

Win. The Champions League just could. the realities

4:39

of the budgets of the Dutch League The

4:41

headlight of Seabirds for Slow is it a

4:43

guide His mid forties who buys a buys

4:46

of that the highest achievement of of of

4:48

her sister is based it's of bullets Eighty

4:50

Four Think it's obvious that his mid forties.

4:53

Won. The League with fine or for the

4:55

first time since two thousand seventy, it's only

4:58

the second thought they'd actually enough for club.

5:00

it's pretty big. Thirty. Seconds on

5:02

what it's it's nice to nice nine they

5:04

reach the find that the right the Conference

5:06

league last against as a million years ago

5:08

math and add the following year they also

5:11

lost in the i'm Directly Caused by Do

5:13

against Jose Maria Schreiber. But just to put

5:15

those achievements and contacts fine with haven't been

5:17

beyond. The group stages of you

5:19

a kid competition since two thousand and

5:21

fifteen. I. Think one liverpool when

5:23

have been taken by the few things

5:26

first ones to playing style. He.

5:28

Makes no bones about the fact that he

5:30

is. Inspired by Pep Guardiola

5:32

of it there are many coaches you

5:34

can find for my my age who

5:36

inspires by his boss Lot. Of

5:40

coaches were inspired and only

5:42

empathy eyes for me by

5:44

a milder demanded an influence

5:47

to gain to most recent

5:49

fifteen to twenty years. of

5:52

course it is by issue but there

5:54

are more almost as as it's bias

5:56

but i like it it's tell me

5:58

ten days after for not for style because

6:01

that is what fans wanted

6:03

to bring. They didn't expect me to

6:05

win the prize or didn't expect me

6:07

to. They only wanted to add value

6:09

to the team and play a certain

6:11

style. You will see those similarities of

6:13

those fullbacks that move inside into central

6:15

midfield. You will see the

6:17

overlays that are created to create one-on-one

6:20

situations. For wingers, he loves wingers.

6:22

He asked his recruitment team at final to

6:24

just keep buying him wingers. He said one

6:26

of the reasons that wingers are often the

6:29

most substituted players for his teams is

6:31

because he tried to get them

6:33

the ball in dynamic one-on-one situations

6:36

as much as possible. So almost we

6:38

would always use two or three within a game because

6:41

he's asking so much of them. So I think

6:43

if you were a player like Lewis Diaz,

6:45

for example, this could be a

6:47

really exciting coach. I think

6:49

the other aspect that Liverpool will

6:51

like is final to be run

6:53

incredibly sustainably over the last couple

6:55

of years. We know that Liverpool's

6:57

model under FSG is that

7:00

they can't go and... Well, everyone's model really

7:02

now with financial players, you kind of have

7:04

to live within your means. And

7:06

that means developing talent, sometimes selling talent, reinvesting

7:09

smartly, trusting recruitment departments. And he's

7:11

been incredibly open to that. That

7:13

final, he's taken on a lot

7:15

of young players. That season where they

7:17

won the league, the 22-23 season, he

7:20

has 15 new players at the start of that

7:23

season and still won the league. So I

7:25

think that aspect will appeal. And then I

7:28

think culturally, he's pretty used now to a

7:30

sporting director and model, to

7:32

scouting departments taking the lead on recruitment. Liverpool

7:34

will like that. We've seen over the years,

7:36

you know, particularly when Michael Edwards was there,

7:39

you know, is it a coincidence that Michael Edwards is

7:41

coming back just as Jürgen Klopp had been leaving? Probably

7:44

not, because Jürgen Klopp's power base over the

7:46

years has grown and grown at

7:49

Liverpool and had more of a say on

7:51

recruitment, understandably, given his achievements. But I think

7:53

Liverpool do want to go back to that

7:55

model of a head coach having input, but

7:57

Then really trusting their recruitment and data

7:59

analysis. They'd David you know to stay

8:01

with something he about was always spoken

8:04

about and sense as soon as the

8:06

death of candidates that probably are available

8:08

to do for to trying to claw

8:10

those boxes. But I guess if say

8:13

him I mean he's his taste the

8:15

Champions League but not intensely I'm and

8:17

if if European football is what little

8:19

pull a think tank they want more

8:21

of easy the man some really take

8:24

them into the latter stages of that

8:26

competition is gonna be a gamble with

8:28

anybody they go forth and there's no

8:30

guarantee I'm sorry for Liverpool fans save

8:33

with know it themselves that the first

8:35

person who replaces Crop will succeed maybe

8:37

not even the second and third as

8:39

clubs i Manchester United and Arsenal have

8:42

found ends replacing their legendary managers or

8:44

perhaps he will. certainly there's the ingredients

8:46

for a successful rain and I really

8:48

liked this potential appointment in in theory

8:50

and when I've spoken to good contacts

8:53

in the Netherlands and they pretty much

8:55

universally speak very highly of him, A

8:57

lot of this fact is that Adams

8:59

has. Outlined the qualities that he

9:01

has exhibited so far from a

9:03

professional point of view, from a

9:06

personal point of view and when

9:08

I think back over live post

9:10

criteria which you and I have

9:12

spoken mountain podcast before Things like

9:14

the style of play, high tempo

9:16

aggressive defending with a high line

9:18

possession based exciting yeah that seems

9:20

to be a good once tapping

9:22

into engaging with the fan base

9:24

through your personality and your style

9:26

of play yeah I can see.a

9:28

good record of keeping players. Fits

9:30

in available wealth to i didn't

9:32

see on that ah and not have

9:35

to look into what he's done at

9:37

Feyenoord. A track record of improving

9:39

players.definitely Ah is a box that has

9:41

been six and in and the wider

9:44

sphere working as Adam says on

9:46

a very limited budget, Look at some

9:48

of the signings they have made

9:50

for a pittance really comparatively relatively speaking

9:52

bites football standards and and they've done

9:55

exceptionally well. There have been some

9:57

questions about like. Certain.

9:59

characters six ways in which he's come

10:01

across the personality, yeah, he's a strong commanding

10:04

figure and that will be an

10:06

interesting dynamic because we've got Michael

10:08

Edwards there who has a lot

10:10

of power and authority now in

10:13

his CEO of football role at

10:15

FSG and will exert huge

10:18

influence of the team, over the squad,

10:20

the club, the transfer market, the academy,

10:22

the multi-club and so much more besides. And

10:24

then you have Richard Hughes coming in

10:26

from Bournemouth, the sporting director and

10:28

they will need to strike up a rapport

10:30

with this manager. There were a lot

10:33

of people suggesting maybe a younger figure,

10:35

maybe someone that you can control in

10:37

this new look set up and it

10:39

is Arnie Slot that, maybe there were

10:41

some reservations on that but I'm

10:43

quite optimistic about how that might work if it

10:46

happens. And then the big factor that

10:48

most people point out to me is

10:50

coming from the Dutch league, maybe

10:52

an expectation that you would go in

10:55

with total respect to Brentford or Brighton

10:57

or a team in that region of

10:59

the Premier League, maybe a newly promoted

11:01

side but to go in at Liverpool

11:03

Football Club and to go in post-clop.

11:06

Firstly, it takes some courage to replace

11:08

him. We've talked on

11:10

here about who would do that. Roberto D'Zerbi

11:13

definitely would but that's not a profile or

11:15

a person that I've been led to believe

11:17

that Liverpool are interested in pursuing and

11:20

others will not want to take on

11:22

that mantle. So if Arnie Slot does, then fair

11:25

play to him. But this is

11:27

a massive step up in his career and

11:29

it's not been a really long coaching career

11:31

so far and that's why perhaps

11:34

the relative lack of Champions

11:36

League football is something that can be

11:38

some concern. Where

11:40

are you going to find the managers? Everybody

11:42

needs their opportunity and it's when

11:44

some of these guys are given their opportunity that

11:47

they do shine. There's natural anxiety

11:49

around how it's gone for Eric Tenharg

11:51

at Manchester United having come from the

11:53

Netherlands and perhaps he had a better

11:55

record than Arnie Slot there but there

11:57

are so many mitigations. for

12:00

and against Derek Tenharg at Manchester

12:02

United. One thing I know, or I think

12:06

it's fair to assume, is that

12:08

Michael Edwards had a brilliant record

12:10

at Liverpool before his departure. The

12:12

due diligence that he will

12:14

have done alongside the Director of

12:16

Research, Will Spearman, the likes

12:19

of David Woodfine, who's coming back as

12:21

assistant sporting director, having left previously as

12:23

well. You've got top recruitment guys there

12:25

like Barry Hunter and David Fallows, and

12:27

a number of others. They will be

12:29

presumably turning over every stone and

12:31

exhibiting why they have built up

12:33

such a good reputation across the

12:35

industry for so many years now.

12:37

I've said repeatedly, they were not

12:39

looking for the populist appointment. They

12:41

were not seeking applause. They didn't

12:44

want to just deliver what the

12:46

public were saying and be seen

12:48

to be doing the right thing.

12:50

They want to do what they

12:52

believe is the right thing, regardless

12:54

of public reaction. They will be

12:57

absolutely set in their ways once

12:59

they decide upon their chosen candidate that

13:01

is absolutely right for Liverpool, for the short,

13:03

medium and long term, whatever people say about

13:05

it. If it is going to be Arnie

13:08

Slott, I think they will do

13:10

everything along with FSG as owners in the

13:12

transfer market and so many big decisions that

13:14

need to be made to create an environment

13:17

for him to succeed. They've

13:19

got a great nucleus there, young

13:21

players, some experienced ones too, that

13:23

really Arsenal Man United didn't have

13:25

in their own transitions. I

13:27

would say there's a much better chance

13:29

of things going right for Liverpool in

13:31

the aftermath of Klopp than there was

13:34

at Manchester United and Arsenal post Ferguson

13:36

and Wenger respectively. But

13:54

we're already looking to the future. With Arnie Slott

13:56

looking likely to be in the red stuck out

13:59

next season, we're the Anfield's excitement

14:01

levels with Andy Jones, Simon Hughes

14:03

and James Pearce. Without hope, what

14:05

do we have? Just search for

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podcasts. This

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episode is supported by FX's Welcome to

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deserve with Discover. Limitations apply. See

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terms at discover.com/credit card. Arne

15:52

did a brilliant job at Fine Art.

15:54

You have to realize that when he arrived in 2021

15:56

there was no money at all. The

15:59

club is... way behind the

16:01

PSV and IAC in every kind

16:03

of way. And

16:05

Arna changed that within a few

16:07

months. He had pretty average

16:09

players, but played on the attack from

16:12

the start. He played pressing football.

16:16

He played the second football. Arna was

16:18

very popular from the beginning because

16:20

he's a great communicator. So the

16:22

fans loved him. And in his

16:25

second year, again with a small

16:27

budget, he did extremely well

16:29

by winning the title, which

16:31

was very impressive because,

16:33

well, that they were by far the

16:35

best team in the competition that

16:38

year. In Holland, everybody's quite convinced that

16:40

this is the best young coach in

16:43

the Netherlands by far in

16:45

the way he plays football, the way

16:47

he communicates with players, the

16:50

way he communicates with the press. He's

16:52

a modern coach. His vision is very

16:54

clear. He's very much into

16:56

details. He's a bit like a control freak.

16:59

I know Arna for quite a while. I used to

17:01

play against him when he was very

17:04

young. We are from the same

17:06

age. I think he was about eight

17:08

years old. So I

17:11

know him quite well for about 20 years

17:13

now. And Arna

17:16

is always easy

17:18

to approach, always calm,

17:20

intelligent, friendly, easygoing.

17:23

I think Liverpool did

17:25

a fine job to contact him.

17:27

I think he proved very

17:30

clearly that he's a special manager.

17:33

He speaks fluent English as well.

17:35

So communication won't be a problem

17:37

at all with the players at

17:39

Liverpool. I've no doubts at

17:41

all about his qualities and

17:44

nobody in Holland has. Every other

17:47

club, especially at Ajax and PSV,

17:49

even their fans, they were extremely

17:52

jealous about the way Arna worked

17:54

at Fine Org. And he was

17:56

always mentioned as the perfect Ajax

17:58

coach. the way

18:01

he plays with fine art, that's the way Ajax

18:03

wants to play. So

18:05

he totally changed the hierarchy of

18:07

Dutch football within a few

18:09

years, which is very, very impressive because

18:12

he didn't have the budget, he didn't have the

18:14

top quality players but he made a great

18:17

team and he built a great team every year.

18:20

So yeah, hope he will

18:22

do good at Anfield and I'm gonna

18:24

follow him closely, I think. Yeah,

18:27

Adam, I mean, something that comes out of

18:30

that is this idea of communication. New York

18:32

usually speaks English and it seems like

18:34

it communicates really well with these players.

18:36

Now, David did allude to sort of

18:39

Man United's Dutch experience of recent, they

18:41

haven't been that great and I guess one of the

18:44

biggest criticisms sometimes of Ten Hack is that

18:46

he's not able to communicate either with the

18:48

press or it seems with the players. Do

18:51

we sense something in Arnislott here that actually

18:53

the communication he brings to his teams allow

18:55

them to execute really well? Yeah,

18:57

I mean, Eric Ten Hack can speak English. It's

19:00

just, I think at times maybe doesn't have the

19:03

fluency that you would see from a Jurgen Klopp

19:05

or a Jose Mourinho or some

19:07

of the charisma perhaps. I think Arnislott's

19:09

English, when he arrives into the country,

19:11

will be significantly higher

19:14

than Ten Hack's to be honest, from my experience sat

19:16

down with him. I think he

19:18

conveys personality a little bit

19:20

more easily. I think he's pretty

19:22

comfortable in his own skin. He's

19:24

also pretty open-minded. I think

19:27

that was one of the things that really stood out. A

19:29

lot of final recruitment was from markets

19:32

that you would consider secondary

19:34

or even tertiary for clubs competing in the

19:36

Champions League. So, I mean, they take a

19:39

young Mexican striker, Santi Jimenez from Cruz

19:41

Athol. He was signed for about 4

19:43

million euros, I think. He's now a

19:46

60 million euro striker. So, you see there

19:48

an openness to trust

19:50

the recruitment department but then also

19:52

an ability to develop talent and

19:54

develop the value of players. I

19:56

think he's also been very,

19:58

very open-minded with clubs. kind of sports science

20:00

departments about how you go about improving players.

20:03

There was a full back

20:05

at final, I think it's called Marcus

20:07

Pederson, and Slott was getting into him

20:09

every day, I want you to be more aggressive when

20:11

you're coming up against your wingo and you're defending.

20:14

What eventually between Slott and the sports

20:16

science staff, they actually sent him for

20:18

kickboxing lessons to improve his aggression, right?

20:20

And some people hear that and think

20:22

like that is just insane what that

20:24

got to do with defending, but it

20:27

was about developing, they said, it was

20:29

about developing that mindset and

20:31

mentality and that last feeling of always being

20:33

in that aggressive mindset when you're facing a

20:35

defender that you would adopt within

20:38

kickboxing, you know, the idea that you can take

20:40

learnings from different sports is one of the things

20:42

I think, you know, we're now seeing at Manchester

20:44

United with Dave Brailsford, you know,

20:46

the pass record in cycling, going in

20:48

there, even with Kimenez, the striker who

20:50

I mentioned, they did a whole

20:52

study on the way he runs, the approach he

20:54

takes to running and they altered the way that

20:56

someone runs at the age of 22, 23 in

21:00

the dressing room before matches. The

21:03

scene is quite bizarre in final dressing

21:05

rooms because you have some players who

21:07

might be a winger or a set

21:09

piece taker watching videos of

21:11

David Beckham crossing a ball on

21:13

loop for five or six minutes,

21:16

other players doing meditation,

21:19

visualization, other players doing nothing

21:21

at all. And that's because Slott

21:23

is incredibly comfortable with whatever works for

21:25

the individual before a high pressure moment

21:27

is necessary. Of course, there will

21:30

be the team meetings and the tactical

21:32

discussions and how do we move teams around

21:34

and what's this team doing that we need

21:36

to address and imposing our own style of

21:38

play. But I think what we've seen

21:40

from Jurgen Klopp over the years is this ability

21:42

to manage that Slott has also

21:45

been able to do at final as

21:47

well. So the question is whether he

21:49

can elevate that management to an

21:52

atmosphere that is incredibly

21:54

regionally intense environment. The fans

21:56

there are demanding that he

21:58

can do that. It's the kind

22:00

of place where if you're not playing well, there'll

22:02

be fans outside the training ground. But

22:05

Liverpool is a way more global story

22:08

at the level of scrutiny of social media and

22:10

all of that kind of thing. I remember talking

22:12

to him about how he felt about

22:14

a young generation of players because the squad he had

22:16

at final was really young. A lot of players under

22:18

the age of 23. And

22:21

you will hear some older

22:23

managers instinctively just go on about how

22:25

much easier it was when they played. And

22:27

Slott's argument is it's never been

22:29

harder to actually be a

22:32

professional footballer. One, because there has never

22:34

been more people trying to be a

22:36

professional footballer. Two, because the demands of

22:38

the athlete now and the

22:40

football calendar are so extreme. And

22:43

look at every footballer they take their top off, it's

22:45

basically the same body right now these days that they're

22:47

trained. And in addition

22:49

to that, he also had a

22:52

real sense of the pressures

22:54

of social media, of players being in the

22:56

dressing room after a game, checking

22:58

what's being said about them. And

23:00

you will need that more than ever if you go

23:02

into one of these top clubs like Liverpool, like Manchester

23:04

United, because the players

23:07

I think really feel that. Yeah, David, I mean,

23:09

we talk, yes, we're talking about Liverpool. I mean,

23:12

if he is this guy, there will be other clubs looking

23:14

at him. Yeah, but I think

23:16

Liverpool are at the forefront

23:18

of his focus for the time being.

23:21

There have been links around this

23:23

situation to Barcelona, but

23:26

Javi is going to be staying until at

23:28

least the summer of 2025 by

23:31

Munich, who, of course, are looking for

23:33

a manager. And it does seem to

23:35

be a good fit to them. But

23:37

all reports indicate that maybe they're further

23:39

ahead with somebody like Ralph Ranjek. There

23:41

have been links to Roberto D'Serby. I

23:43

don't know how firm that is, but

23:46

it hasn't been a strong rumour

23:49

mill around any slots. And

23:51

so firstly, Liverpool appear to

23:53

be in a strong position in terms

23:55

of their approach. But secondly, he seems

23:57

to be keen on this opportunity. And

23:59

so it in that case and it's

24:01

Liverpool in the Premier League and I'm

24:04

sure the money would be right

24:07

It doesn't really matter if there are other projects

24:09

if he wants them and they want him I

24:11

was actually gonna ask Adam some

24:13

fascinated by the detail He's going into

24:16

about this candidate unless Liverpool had this

24:18

plan all along and none of us

24:20

knew about it Why was

24:22

someone seemingly such a good fit

24:25

not more prominent from earlier on? That's

24:27

a very good question, right? How

24:30

often do we see in these managerial searches?

24:33

The kind of the fourth or fifth guy that

24:35

comes along or maybe in this case second or

24:37

third We're told by the club. It is the

24:40

perfect candidate the ideal cat post a cot glue

24:42

post a cot glue, right? How many managers did

24:44

Spurs go through before they eventually got to someone

24:46

who looks pretty good now? He's there. I think

24:48

everyone knew that Liverpool wanted shall be alongside, right?

24:50

I don't think anyone's denying that that would have

24:53

been something Liverpool would have loved to do I

24:56

think the Ruben Amarene one is slightly different I

24:58

think there was probably some interest but

25:00

maybe not as much interest as was perhaps

25:02

conveyed in Portugal at certain times With

25:05

on a slot. I think this has

25:07

come as a shock to final from Conversations

25:10

I've been having I don't get

25:12

the impression that final three four weeks

25:14

ago We're expecting to lose their managers to Liverpool

25:16

so it may just be that you know Liverpool

25:18

have been working their way through a list of

25:21

People speaking to lots of different candidates

25:23

or it may just be that actually

25:25

before making final aware of anything you

25:28

know, they wanted to have some conversations

25:30

with slot or his representatives or just

25:33

do all the necessary background checks before really

25:35

formalizing it because Once you

25:37

go public in the way that Liverpool but

25:39

they've not gone public with a public statement

25:41

But I think it's been pretty clear to

25:43

journalists that Liverpool would like to take on

25:45

a slot They've made an opening offer that

25:47

was around 9 million euros yesterday That was

25:50

they were told that's not enough and it's going

25:52

to be interesting to see How

25:54

far fine order able to push with this

25:57

with this figure, right? Because I think we're

25:59

still quite new to this world

26:01

of managers being born and sold, right?

26:03

And in some ways, it makes total

26:06

sense given what we spend on players

26:09

and sporting directors. You know, we're now talking

26:11

about like 12, 15

26:13

million for Dan Ashworth from Newcastle to Manchester

26:15

United. So if

26:17

Arna Slott has been so, so central and

26:20

his staff has been so, so central

26:22

to what finals have been able to

26:24

achieve over the last few years,

26:26

then of course, Firenord are going to be asking

26:29

for a substantial amount of money. I think

26:31

what's happened over the past sort of 18 months

26:33

or so is opportunities have come along for Slott.

26:35

So the first one was Leeds

26:37

United and this was when I think Jesse

26:39

Marsh was on the ring. And you had

26:41

Victor Orta, their sporting director fly out to

26:44

Holland and he thought he was going to

26:46

get him. And in the end, they just, they

26:49

were outflanked in the end by the

26:51

Firenord chief executive, Dennis de

26:53

Clozer, who he's a

26:56

really interesting guy, tough negotiator. The

26:58

way it was described to me by someone

27:00

who's negotiated against him was kind of, I

27:02

love this guy because he smiles to your

27:04

face, but behind the scenes, nothing's moving. That

27:09

things are going the way you want them

27:11

to go, but really, they're sometimes going the

27:13

way he wants them to go. And that's

27:15

certainly what happened with Tottenham later in the

27:17

summer, before they got pasta cochlea, Arna Slott

27:19

was a top target, there was no release

27:21

clause much like there's not this summer, there

27:23

would have been a release clause for this

27:25

summer had Slott not extended his

27:27

contract when he turned down Tottenham. So that

27:29

would be the 5 million euro release clause,

27:32

but the extension he did didn't

27:34

have a clause. So I think

27:36

what you're going to see now is Slott

27:38

probably make it clear to Firenord that he'd

27:40

like this opportunity. I'd be very surprised if

27:42

they stand in his way. But I

27:45

think Liverpool probably have to get that

27:47

number from maybe 9 million euros up

27:49

to 12, 13,

27:52

you would think, but that may go bigger if

27:54

Liverpool start asking about members

27:56

of backroom departments as well. That's the

27:58

other question, yeah. What happens to

28:01

Pep Linders, for instance, he's currently at

28:03

Liverpool, you know, it can be really

28:05

interesting, David. Yeah, I think every indication

28:07

we've had is that Pep Linders is

28:09

going to be pursuing his career elsewhere,

28:11

although he does know slots extremely well.

28:13

And so perhaps that provides a little

28:15

bit of insight from Liverpool's perspective, because

28:17

of course, Linders is still

28:20

there and can provide his insight and maybe

28:22

a bit of usefulness in

28:24

transition. Adam, I'm actually quite fascinated by

28:26

DeCloset because when I talk to people

28:28

in the Netherlands, they say he's the

28:30

best CEO by a mile in the

28:33

era de visi and that he

28:35

will not make life

28:37

easy, even if he's a nice guy for

28:39

for Liverpool. So perhaps they're

28:42

trying to move quite carefully

28:44

and delicately in this. And

28:46

with the knowledge that there

28:48

is pressure on Edwards and

28:50

Hughes here to deliver, they

28:52

seem to have overcome the

28:54

perceived setback of losing Jaby

28:56

Alonso, at least from a

28:58

public PR perspective relatively well.

29:01

Suddenly, Amareem was on the scene

29:03

and Liverpool fans were excited and

29:05

now it's slot and there's

29:07

been a lot of positive coverage around him. But

29:10

this is a massive moment for

29:12

them. They're new into these roles.

29:14

They don't officially start in the

29:16

summer. And they're charged with one

29:18

of the biggest moments in Liverpool's

29:20

modern history, replacing Jurgen Klopp, keeping

29:22

Liverpool competitive and successful, meeting the

29:25

expectations of a really

29:28

passionate, massive fan base

29:31

and expect an ownership as well.

29:33

That's not an easy task. And

29:36

however, their builders being at

29:38

the forefront of the industry and really

29:40

highly rated and in some cases sort

29:42

of Edwards is billed as this sort

29:44

of leading figure in his

29:47

realm. They simply have to

29:49

deliver here. Yeah. And what we've what

29:51

we've not really seen is Edwards really

29:53

strive when Klopp's not there. I

29:56

think with some of these sporting directors,

29:58

you know, someone like Chicky Pagueras there.

30:00

Michael Edwards here. It's very hard

30:02

to tell sometimes how much of their success is

30:04

about how good they are and how

30:06

good is just the head coach at

30:08

the time because often these whole things

30:11

tend to fall apart a little bit when

30:13

the head coach changes. At the

30:16

same time, Liverpool had a very good

30:18

record on recruitment, both buying and selling

30:20

when Edwards was there the last time.

30:22

He's clearly been really highly empowered. Actually,

30:25

interestingly, I think Andoni Iraiola, who

30:27

was appointed by Richard Hughes at

30:30

Bournemouth, he I think was

30:32

actually on finalist to potentially replace Slott

30:34

if you go back 18 months ago

30:37

as well if he was to leave the

30:39

club. So final themselves will be already

30:41

amongst the market looking at how do we go

30:43

and replace our guys. Well, that's the way this

30:46

whole chain works. I think there

30:48

is pressure on Richard Hughes. Michael

30:51

Edwards has the credit in the bank from

30:53

Liverpool fans for what he's done there previously.

30:56

Richard Hughes is newer. I think

30:58

final, no, now that Liverpool have basically made it

31:00

pretty clear to the world that they

31:02

want this guy, that probably does raise the

31:04

price a little bit, particularly if you're

31:06

doing that or you've actually formally

31:08

approached by an order to discuss terms.

31:12

I think that does create a bit

31:14

of pressure. Equally, it may be a

31:16

case that because of the lack of the release clause,

31:19

Liverpool felt as though they always had to

31:21

create the situation where it feels like an

31:23

inevitability that Slott is going to leave the

31:26

club. And it'll be interesting to see as

31:28

well the extent to which Slott

31:30

himself agitates because that's something

31:32

that could bring the price down, right? If

31:34

he turns around and says, look, I've been

31:36

here with you for two, three years. We've

31:39

had all this success together. I stayed

31:41

last time, but the final's

31:44

opening the league this year. PSV have

31:46

had this extraordinary season in the Dutch

31:49

league. So all it would probably

31:51

take for Slott is maybe one middling season next

31:53

year. And these opportunities don't

31:55

come around again. So I think

31:57

this is a deal that everyone kind of expects to

31:59

happen. But there might be a bit of

32:01

pain getting to the finish line. This

32:12

is the Athletic Council

32:22

of Liverpool class. With Ollie O'Loughlin. dedicated

32:24

Liverpool podcast, Walk On, about how the

32:26

news has been received on Merseyside. The

32:28

more I've read about Slott and the

32:30

more I've spoken to people about Slott

32:32

and had a chat yesterday with

32:34

the count, who obviously knows him well,

32:37

he's a fine-awed legend, count and

32:40

he spent a week shadowing

32:42

Slott last year at their training

32:44

ground. And again, he

32:47

only had positive things to say. And

32:49

when you look at the criteria Liverpool were assessing

32:52

in terms of a playing style that's

32:55

not too far removed from the

32:57

current one, because it has to

32:59

be a style that suits the

33:01

current proper players. And people keep

33:04

saying this attacking brand of football

33:06

that Slott plays and the pressing

33:08

game, the high defensive line, how

33:10

he's developed young players, doing

33:12

it on a relatively modest budget, certainly

33:15

compared to the likes of PSV and Ajax

33:18

domestically and also his

33:20

communication skills and his fluent English,

33:22

he conducts all his meetings at

33:24

Firenord in English. One

33:27

of the biggest things as well was going to be Liverpool

33:29

had to find someone who had the personality to

33:31

really embrace following in Klopp's

33:34

footsteps. The last thing you needed is someone

33:36

who almost felt like it

33:39

was almost, you know, be daunted by the

33:41

challenge. You've got to think, well, why can't

33:43

I go in there and build on what

33:45

Klopp has achieved and create my own slice

33:47

of history? Yeah, I mean David, you know, Jamie

33:50

Carragher was saying on Sky that, you know, fans

33:52

need to see a manager with personality. Is this

33:54

the guy? Does he have a

33:56

big enough personality, something that can both

33:58

unite fans and the world? board, you

34:00

know, the usuals we've been talking about. The

34:03

available options. He strikes me

34:05

as having good charisma, gravitas,

34:08

the type of guy who can carry the

34:10

weight of a big club on his shoulders.

34:13

We won't really know the full

34:16

extent of that until he's in

34:18

and has been tested like never

34:20

before in his career. But

34:22

when you look around the other names

34:24

that were being talked about, certainly Alonso

34:26

felt that he could, even though he's

34:29

still at the embryonic stage of his

34:31

managerial career, less experienced than Slots. The

34:34

others you would have had some concerns about.

34:36

You saw names coming from all manner of

34:38

angles. There were reports about Gary O'Neill. I

34:40

don't think that was ever the case. And

34:43

I also hope and think you'll have

34:45

a really good career. But at this

34:47

point, somebody like that coming into Liverpool

34:49

Football Club didn't feel quite right. There

34:51

were some suggestions that Richard Hughes may

34:54

turn back to Bournemouth and Iraiola, who's

34:56

doing a brilliant job down there. But

34:58

I don't know if that felt quite

35:00

right in terms of he's been in

35:02

England for a very short

35:04

time and the step up to somebody

35:06

like Liverpool where language,

35:08

he speaks good English, but is he

35:10

able to engage with the fans

35:12

in the way that Liverpool really

35:14

want them to and will need them

35:16

to post-clop? And then there were some

35:18

names that I'm sure they will have

35:20

been looking at in the

35:22

wider spectrum because they would have performed

35:25

well on their data models. Someone like

35:27

a Michelle at Girona, I heard, was

35:29

highly viewed. But his English is extremely

35:31

limited and it just

35:33

didn't feel like somebody like him

35:35

would be the right fit.

35:38

So when you think to

35:40

Slots, this is not really

35:43

scientific. This is just sort of

35:45

feel and notional. Yeah, I think it would

35:47

be one that despite a little bit of

35:49

scepticism that's come out in the Liverpool fan

35:51

base, a lot of people don't know who

35:53

he is. They don't know what he's done.

35:56

They think it's perhaps a bit underwhelming compared

35:58

to the aura around. and

36:00

Amal Reem, whether it be

36:02

his work, which is really impressive, whether it be a bit

36:04

of a PR, as

36:06

fans and members of the public and

36:08

the industry, often we just get this

36:11

into our heads. We like the narrative.

36:13

It is thrilling. It's exciting. And then

36:15

suddenly it's a guy from Holland and

36:17

there's a bit of a little

36:20

bit deflated. But I would

36:22

be really optimistic if I was a

36:24

Liverpool fan. There's something about him that

36:26

makes him feel more appropriate

36:28

than many of the names that had

36:30

been swirling around. And I just

36:32

don't think they would have gone down this

36:34

route unless they were utterly convinced about that.

36:37

And we won't know until we're further down

36:40

the line. But the early

36:42

indications and reading up on him

36:44

and speaking to people about him

36:46

and listening to somebody like Adam

36:48

explaining from first-hand experience, right

36:51

now at the stage of the process they're on,

36:53

I don't think there have

36:55

been that many better options rising

36:58

to the fore. I think as

37:00

well, when we talk about the fire of

37:02

a Liverpool manager, well, there's not much more

37:05

fire than the rivalry between Ajax and Feyenoord.

37:07

Feyenoord hadn't won at Ajax since 2005 when

37:09

slots took over. And

37:12

that mental block was so severe that

37:14

he actually hired an

37:17

English psychologist to come in and work with

37:19

a sports psychologist, to come in, work with

37:21

a team, work on visualisation, what it would

37:23

be like to win there. Since

37:25

slots being there, they've now won there the last two times, won 3-2

37:27

and 4-0 at their fiercest

37:29

rivals. The last time they won at Ajax,

37:31

the game was basically shut down because

37:34

the Ajax fans were going so mad about it.

37:36

And then when Feyenoord played Ajax a few weeks

37:38

ago, they won 6-0 at home. So I

37:41

think he's someone who clearly appreciates rivalries

37:43

and passion and connection to a local

37:45

fan base. So I think

37:47

it's probably an unfair stick at this stage. Maybe

37:50

he'll be proven differently to say he's

37:52

not somebody that could understand those

37:55

aspects of the job. I think maybe

37:57

the fair question mark suggests a couple of things

37:59

that have been done. been raised to me. One

38:01

is that he's never really had a period of

38:03

his career where things have gone wrong. So how

38:06

would he come to terms with that? How would

38:08

he cope with those challenges? If

38:10

Liverpool were to go on a run of

38:12

7-8-9 games where they're barely winning, how would

38:14

he cope with that pressure? And

38:16

then the other thing is just in the

38:19

Dutch league, as Eric Tenhags found out, it's

38:21

a really easy, lazy argument to make, but

38:24

you're not coming up against the

38:26

quality of opposition every week that

38:28

you are in the Premier League, right? Things

38:31

like Bournemouth and Spollum

38:34

and Everton and West Ham will cause

38:36

you problems of very different times all

38:39

the time, you know? So I

38:41

think there's a result of that. Those are

38:43

the fair questions that at this stage can

38:45

be painted against them. There's more to life

38:48

and to football than only winning a prize. It's also

38:51

the way you work, the way you can work. That's

38:53

what I mean a little bit with the charity which

38:55

you have. Do we get a sense

38:57

of the man himself, his

39:00

connection to family and things like that? Who

39:03

is he in that respect? Yeah, I

39:05

think one of the reasons

39:07

he stayed at Firenord when Tottenham came

39:09

calling last year was that he'd clearly

39:12

developed connections within the club he was

39:14

at. He was probably pretty settled at

39:16

the time as well. He

39:18

didn't at the time see a kind of

39:20

a greener way over the

39:23

road at Spurs. I

39:25

think it's time to take something incredibly special for

39:28

him to actually decide now is the time

39:30

to go and do it. I think he even said in

39:33

that interview that

39:35

something along the lines of if

39:37

you just go somewhere for a year or

39:39

two then what impact do you really leave

39:41

on the people you're with, the community you

39:43

make? I think he is someone who like

39:46

Klopp would – he's ambitious.

39:49

Klopp eventually left Auckland and he left mine

39:51

but I think everywhere he goes he wants

39:53

to be able to leave a stamp and

39:55

a legacy and be able to say look

39:57

at what we created and not – Even,

40:00

okay, they won the league last year, this year they've

40:02

won a cup. But to be

40:04

able to say, over a body of time, we

40:06

have developed an identity, a style of play, a

40:08

connection with the fan base, and a

40:10

few trophies along the way. And that's basically what Liverpool won.

40:13

Sounds good, and I'm sure many Liverpool fans will

40:16

be hoping it can work magic on Darwin Unis

40:18

as well. Anyway, let's leave it there. David,

40:22

Adam, thanks so much for your time, but also

40:24

don't forget to rate and review the podcast. Thanks

40:26

for listening. Don't forget, Adam and the

40:28

team are back tomorrow for a weekend preview. You've

40:31

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40:33

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40:35

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40:37

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