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com/The Athletic. The

1:26

athletic. Thanks

1:36

for listening to us today! This

1:38

is the fifty second and final

1:40

episode of the Athletic Football Tactics

1:42

Podcast. In the year Two Thousand

1:44

and Twenty Three, we are deep

1:46

into stoppage time. There's a real

1:48

end of term fill in the

1:50

studio. I'm not a Maxwell. Mark.

1:53

Gary say early Liam Thoms here

1:55

as well Hello and Michael Cox

1:57

to hi Alex. Mcleod. another

1:59

trip round the sun as people insist

2:01

on saying, our fourth full

2:03

year doing this podcast and

2:06

it's been a good one. Yeah,

2:09

it has been a good one. Yeah, I was trying

2:11

to think of a way to make trip

2:13

round the sun related to the World

2:15

Cup and being in the other opposite side, you know,

2:17

opposite side of the world, different

2:19

time zones and that different seasons. But

2:22

yeah, it's been good. I think it's been a good

2:24

year for football. I was just looking

2:26

back at all the results, all the things I've

2:28

written and it's been good. Champions League was good.

2:30

I really enjoyed the Women's World Cup. This Premier

2:32

League season started well. As we've done a couple

2:34

of podcasts ago, there's some surprise league leaders around

2:36

Europe, which you don't get too often. So overall,

2:38

2023 pretty good, I think. Yeah,

2:41

we have been kept busy. If you look at the

2:43

first episodes of 2023, it does show how

2:47

much things change in a year. And just

2:49

as well too, for a weekly podcast like

2:51

ours, Liam, we had first

2:53

Kontay Spurs, Kane's

2:55

goals, January transfers and second half FC

2:57

was the title of that one. We

2:59

had why Chelsea gambled on Joao Felix

3:01

and what a veg horse will bring

3:04

to Manchester United. And we

3:06

also had scouting for Liverpool's next

3:08

Weinaldum, which looking

3:10

at the midfield that started on

3:12

the weekend, Mark, Graven Burch, Alexis

3:14

McAllister, Sobersleigh, can't say they didn't try.

3:17

No, and I'd argue that it was actually

3:19

Curtis Jones, who is the the why

3:21

now is in replacement is board attention is incredible.

3:23

We must have overlooked him at the

3:25

time, but he'd be the one who has been placement.

3:28

Absolutely. Well, a huge thank you to everyone

3:31

that's listened this year to all that contribute

3:33

with tweets or comments on

3:35

the episode page on the athletic app.

3:37

Episode ideas are always welcome. But anyone

3:39

that sends us kind messages and support

3:42

or otherwise, constructive feedback that

3:44

does help us a lot and really

3:47

gives us a boost. So thank you

3:49

for being with us this year. Today,

3:51

it's going to be a 2023 notebook.

3:53

I've asked the guys to present the

3:55

most interesting stories, developments, narratives or changes

3:57

in football in 2023. a

4:00

nice way to bookend the year.

4:02

So a sort of time capsule

4:04

preserving tactical and statistical trends from

4:07

elite level football in 2023. Let's

4:09

kick it off, Liam, in terms

4:11

of notable tactical

4:13

trends across 2023, what springs to mind?

4:17

The big one has been, and it

4:20

can be anyone in the defensive position, moving someone

4:22

into the middle generally from out wide, often a

4:24

full back. And the box midfield thing that I

4:26

feel like has just got everyone a bit of

4:28

a tactical chokehold over the past 12 months.

4:32

It was pretty something City started, I think,

4:34

from memory at Anfield in late 2022 in

4:36

the one Liverpool win.

4:38

But since we've seen a lot of other teams,

4:41

Barcelona have done it, Liverpool have

4:43

increasingly done it in terms of moving someone in. We

4:45

now see it with Spurs with both full backs coming

4:47

inside. And it's just a

4:49

real contrast in terms of the full back

4:51

creativity of wanting that player to be a

4:54

bit more technical. It's probably the wrong word because

4:56

I think it's quite technical to be creative and

4:59

provide assists, but to be a controller and to

5:01

overload the midfield, often to try and isolate

5:03

the wingers a lot more. I know we've

5:05

got a few games left this calendar year

5:07

across the Premier League, but there have been

5:09

63 assists from full backs this calendar year

5:11

in the Premier League, and around the same

5:13

amount of expected assists. So it's not like

5:15

a big sort of skew either way. You

5:17

go back last year, it was 98 assists.

5:19

Go back even farther to 2021, it was 102. So

5:23

it's a real drop off from in recent years. So

5:25

it's a clear difference now in terms of

5:27

I think what the coaches want from some of those full backs.

5:30

Full back position, Michael, has changed a lot over the last 10,

5:32

20 years in a number of

5:35

different ways. And that was the case again in 2023. Yeah.

5:39

And I mean, one of the

5:41

interesting things about the way

5:43

City did it was they ended up back in the

5:45

last season with John Stones actually doing it from centre

5:47

back to centre midfield in what

5:49

was a back four of four centre backs really, which

5:52

I don't think anyone would have expected a couple

5:54

of years ago. So that Champs V

5:56

final 1-0 win against Inter, they played

5:58

Akke, Akanji. Dias

6:01

and John Stones and Stones were the key players

6:03

just stepping forward from center back to midfield and

6:05

that's something that you know very few

6:07

players I think have the ability to do but

6:10

it's become such a pattern of city and

6:12

of as Liam says of the Premier League in

6:14

general I mean Manchester City

6:16

against Arsenal was one of the crucial fixtures

6:18

or the crucial fixture last season

6:21

and Guardiola used Bernardo Silva as his

6:23

left back so at some points he's using like

6:25

a convert center back so there's loads of interesting

6:27

things going on in that

6:30

position and I actually think defenders in general in their

6:32

evolution has

6:34

been the most interesting thing in football tactics over the last five years or

6:37

so feels like every time we're kind of trying to come up with an

6:39

idea for

6:41

this podcast based around a position it's not really

6:43

about the strikers or the wingers they've kind of

6:45

done their technical evolution but what defenders

6:48

have gone through over the last five years in

6:50

terms of an evolution of their game has just

6:52

been fascinating. It's

6:56

not too uncommon to have center backs play at

6:58

a full back but that's similarly happening as well

7:00

as you say Michael Manchester City but Chelsea

7:02

having Axel Tzazze on the right hand side

7:04

at right back and Levi Colwell at left

7:07

back but it seems that they're sort of

7:09

if not copying it the main thing I want

7:11

to think about here is that it doesn't feel

7:14

like historically it's been that common that the top

7:16

sides are copying each other or

7:18

doing the same thing because I'm wary of

7:20

saying copying because Angel Posterkogli has sort of

7:22

drawn attention to the fact that he's just

7:24

copying pet mate but it

7:26

doesn't it doesn't really feel like it's happened as

7:28

much until recently and I don't know whether it

7:30

is just identifying that that is a beneficial way

7:32

to play the game so we're going to do

7:35

it as well or they've all converged on the

7:37

the same idea at a similar time I don't

7:39

know but it definitely feels like the the top

7:41

sides are converging on a similar build-up

7:43

place should we say. It's also the youth

7:46

of the players that are being used

7:48

in that midfielder full backs or hybrid role so Curtis

7:50

Jones did it a bit for the England 21s

7:53

and again like these players that have come through an awful

7:56

lot of EPP Academy coaching and all

7:58

the and you know that emerging generation

8:00

now. We've seen with Jack Hinshaw at Brighton who

8:02

was a really good technical midfielder for the 18's

8:04

and the 21's and Deserbe is stacking straight in

8:07

in Europa League games and Premier League games. Sure

8:09

a little bit out of necessity but he's got

8:11

other sort of centre backs he could use in

8:13

those wide spaces but is prepared to sort of

8:16

move him in field. Rico Lewis obviously the big

8:18

one for City who was almost

8:20

the perfect player it felt for that role. Destiny

8:22

Doggy who is another young player that the post

8:24

the cockler was throwing straight into that so it's

8:26

almost a very clear delineation I think between like

8:29

you're one of two types of defender of this

8:31

physical one that can do anywhere across the back

8:33

line almost or you're the one that can go

8:35

further forward and inside. You

8:38

say Michael it's a particularly interesting role

8:40

and suitable for top level teams perhaps

8:42

more than others because I think you

8:44

said something like it's a very hard

8:47

role to adapt to, it's a hard skill set

8:49

to have to be able to defend in wide

8:51

areas but also essentially be a

8:54

midfield player in possession. Do you think

8:56

that we will see more natural

8:58

so to speak central midfield players

9:01

playing nominally full back roles

9:03

certainly when you write out on paper

9:05

rather than teams looking for current full

9:07

back types who they think might be

9:09

able to adapt to that role? Yeah

9:12

I think you're probably right I mean it was this time

9:14

last year where Rico Lewis I think

9:16

made his debut for Manchester City or certainly his

9:19

first Premier League start and

9:21

I was covering that game and just immediately was

9:23

amazed how good he was on the ball

9:25

and wrote an article solely about how he was I think

9:28

the next generation of that

9:30

kind of full back you know as Liam says players

9:32

have almost been almost groomed to play that role a

9:34

role that didn't exist kind of ten years ago so

9:36

yeah I think that probably will be

9:39

the case I mean Alexander-Arnold was an interesting one

9:41

because he was a midfielder in the youth team

9:43

then almost solely a full back in the first

9:45

team and now it looks like has blended

9:47

the roles very well and Hincherwood I think

9:49

is a great shout I mean it's actually

9:51

interesting to hear Liam say what his position

9:53

was in the youth teams because watching

9:56

him for the first time I had no idea he just looked so

9:58

comfortable being a full back and going into midfield. There's going

10:00

to be more of those players I expect.

10:03

So if we see a lot, if not all

10:05

of the top clubs attempting this

10:07

or adopting this approach full

10:10

time so to speak, what do we

10:12

think will be the natural reaction to

10:14

this action in tactics? There

10:16

is always something that comes in

10:18

order to counteract a trend

10:20

that develops and becomes established. I

10:23

mean I'm not sure. I think one

10:25

of the reasons that full back's often

10:27

tuck inside, we've seen it with Alexander

10:29

Strenko say in a, I

10:32

think it was a video with Ria Ferdinand that the

10:35

reason that he does it is so that he

10:37

can tuck in, drag an opponent

10:39

with him and it opens up space and the

10:42

passing angle for a Martinelli or someone similar. So

10:44

they're creating overloads to make space in the

10:47

wide areas. I wonder whether if

10:49

nothing else teams might just not kind of fall for

10:52

that a little bit and then just don't

10:54

take the bait a little bit and ensure that the ball

10:56

is still in front of them rather than getting pulled apart

10:59

and maybe sort of adapt a little bit in that way.

11:02

I don't know if that's a bit more of a reactive thing

11:04

than a proactive thing because it is so hard to predict trends

11:06

but I think there's so

11:08

many different reasons why the full back's tuck

11:10

inside. So Alexander Arnold tucks inside so that

11:12

he can get on the ball and start

11:14

to spray passes around while the full back's

11:16

tucking in more to drag a player with

11:18

them and open up passing angles elsewhere. Others

11:21

maybe to get more into half spaces in more advanced

11:23

areas like Spurs' full backs but yeah

11:25

it's quite hard to say what

11:27

the proactive solution would be to that

11:29

but maybe not kind of taking the bait

11:32

at times might be a tactical growing trend.

11:34

I think defending against it is particularly awkward

11:36

because as you point out the way it can be

11:38

used to manipulate a block but there's

11:40

definitely become a way to exploit it on the

11:42

counter attack of the ball that

11:45

goes in behind into the channels because then the full back's

11:47

got a greater distance to run. If you can either

11:49

have I think Iain to have been

11:52

a great example in sort of releasing the wing backs

11:54

really really early but we've now I think got

11:56

into a weird position where lots of teams or

11:58

certain teams will also do the... the

18:00

halfway line for a striker coming short

18:02

and then we build from there and then

18:04

bypass the initial press because teams

18:06

are going short more therefore defensively people are

18:09

looking for solutions so then as an attacking

18:11

from an attacking perspective you've got to think

18:13

of a solution again. And that suits

18:15

the profiles of players that are existing

18:17

now and are coming more back into the game

18:19

so that suits the number nine that can be

18:22

already dominant or physical and can receive and center

18:24

pass that suits the the quick inverted winger that

18:26

can make those out to him runs in behind

18:28

or can get 1v1. It's not Premier League specific

18:30

but if anyone's watched Nese on the Farioli this

18:32

season they're a perfect example of what Michael's talking

18:35

about where they're often attacking in a

18:37

4-3 and it will be seven of their own players in

18:39

their own defensive third at goal kicks almost always

18:42

passing short from the goalkeeper. Sometimes then the centre

18:44

back will get to open out and play long

18:46

and they've got basically a 3v3 on the halfway line

18:48

when teams match them up they've got a big number nine

18:50

they can play into in Terro Mophie they've got a quick

18:52

wing on the left in Jeremy Boga and Gates on the

18:55

board similarly on the right and it's just

18:57

great because teams at times

18:59

you can kind of know what's going to happen and you

19:01

then get the rise of the decoy kick where you know

19:03

you shape up that way and then you play it long

19:05

because teams might know that's going to happen or have an

19:07

inkling but you still have to set up the press because

19:09

then if you don't and they play short you've just given

19:11

them time and space so it's a I think it's an

19:14

impossible situation to solve in that regard because it's just it's

19:16

a lot of preparation for what might happen and you're just

19:18

trying to avoid the worst case scenario. And

19:20

lastly in terms of tactics just player

19:22

profiles that have trended upwards or

19:25

downwards Liam feels like there's been

19:27

a broader formation shift

19:29

across the game that has been

19:31

bad news for centre backs good

19:33

news for wide forwards? I mean

19:35

possibly it depends how you look at it so

19:38

as we were sort of saying at the start with

19:40

the the box midfield and then what becomes sort of

19:43

a 3-2-4-1 or a 3-2-5 however you want to sort

19:45

of look at it a 3 box three you look

19:47

at that on paper normally that's out of how we

19:49

would write it down as a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3

19:51

and so looking at some

19:55

of the data there's a good good Premier League article on

19:57

this from the end of end of the season so sort

19:59

of. halfway through the year give or take. There was

20:01

a 61% rise in 43 ones compared to last season and

20:05

a 60% reduction in 3-5-2s which I guess

20:08

makes sense and we're sort of in the fallout

20:10

now from that you know very much wingback era

20:12

from sort of late I suppose 2016-17.

20:14

So you do get the more physical

20:18

centre backs now I think that coaches seem to want

20:20

and I wonder if it's just down to a control

20:23

aspect which links back to the what

20:25

we were saying at the start about moving the

20:27

defender into midfield. For some teams I tell Liverpool

20:29

at the exception I feel like putting Alexander Ronald

20:31

in midfield is because he's genuinely a phenomenal passer

20:33

of the ball and you're like I want him

20:35

in the middle of the pitch where he can

20:37

play the most passers-in we can be the best

20:39

in attack and of course they're restructuring their midfield

20:41

but for City it feels more like no we

20:43

want control momentum you know control the further game

20:45

better set to counter press and similar for Arsenal

20:47

and now the whole the

20:50

stick that Arsenal being beaten with is are you more boring

20:52

which is probably a good thing for

20:54

them as you know having title credentials so I

20:56

guess that is a very roundabout way

20:58

of answering your question. I mean on the

21:00

note of formations as well it feels like

21:02

there's slightly more appreciation maybe in broadcasting and

21:04

in the media of

21:07

the differences of the nuances of formations

21:09

and phases of play, game state and

21:11

that's that's not to say that it

21:13

wasn't already well established within clubs among

21:15

managers and coaches but I'm

21:17

certainly becoming more appreciative of yeah

21:19

the different phases I mean was it Arteta saying in a post

21:22

match or a pre-match press conference that they used

21:24

36 different formations at

21:26

one point so I think there's more appreciation

21:28

of the yeah the different phases of play

21:30

and we're certainly sleeping more into the media

21:33

I would say rather than just within clubs.

21:35

Yeah I start to see now City listed

21:37

is their start information like a three two

21:39

four one in games where they're putting some

21:41

automatic is in midfield or something like it's

21:44

difficult because the reality is it's if

21:47

there's sort of the state of the game

21:49

they're in for the most time you can go thorough enough

21:51

that's the average time they'll be in but yeah it's a

21:54

thing of okay we now understand that we can't really encapsulate

21:56

it into one thing and it's more that as much as

21:58

that that broad appreciation I think the The idea of

22:00

viewing it as sort of like a

22:02

chess scam, it's going to hate the football chess

22:04

comparisons, but that way being like, it's a whole

22:06

entire move, it's not just one thing that's a

22:08

formation, it's they're doing this move in this way

22:10

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to come to Seattle. Okay,

24:25

let's get statistical. What has

24:27

been the major statistical trends

24:29

of top level football in

24:31

Twenty Twenty Three? Was.

24:33

Goes slow to go to all those

24:35

great year for goals are you fuckers?

24:37

This season's had twenty twenty three, twenty

24:39

fourth fastest ever to five hundred goes

24:42

and the right as a piece of

24:44

got so when the back burner because

24:46

they live if we night again completely

24:48

as throughout the water was the Goes

24:50

and Big Six games are massively up.

24:53

In fact there were. I

24:55

think that was the the fourteenth meeting a

24:57

big six teams at the premier league. The

24:59

season will see this thirty games across a

25:01

season among those teams and that only been

25:03

collectively three clean sheets. Price that games you've

25:05

already we'd be high amounts of draws the

25:07

of wally high amount of goes as well.

25:09

See get low to high school choice in

25:11

cook out that the Chelsea city is just

25:14

a bit peculiar times it only have to

25:16

have a hot of our situation for it's

25:18

as the furnace equality going for be think

25:20

it's a odds were to be the fact

25:22

I lost a coach Now wants to control

25:24

games better. Whether it's think on

25:26

to injury and like noise, have a

25:28

consistent starting eleven said condense fiction. This,

25:30

it's oversee know on Spam. I'm. Intrigued.

25:33

To hear what the other months. i

25:35

think a big factor is what we just

25:37

spoken about and him to show goal kicks

25:39

his the risk and reward them we've spoken

25:41

about before that as mark said with the

25:44

show go kick this more probabilities get into

25:46

the opposition books in sixty seconds bitcoin oversee

25:48

more probability the gonna lose the ball on

25:50

the edge of your own books with hussein

25:53

it's almost as a matter of course these

25:55

days usually i mean that five ten years

25:57

ago if a team pay the square ball

25:59

across box lost the ball and could see the

26:01

goal you'd be like that's the stupidest thing I've ever

26:03

seen whereas now you're like yeah that's just part you

26:06

know part of the game but you

26:08

know go about 10 years when teams just took

26:10

goal kicks and they'd hoof it towards the centre

26:12

circle you can be fairly sure 30 seconds

26:16

after that you're not gonna have a goal you're

26:18

just not because the ball's in a neutral zone both

26:20

sides are just congesting the play I think that's got

26:23

to make I mean I would guess

26:26

that would increase the goals per game

26:28

rate by like 0.2 a game

26:32

I mean it's wild you know estimation

26:34

based upon absolutely nothing but one

26:37

in five games feels yeah it's got a

26:39

massive impact yeah that's quite neat as well

26:42

isn't it because in purely data driven terms

26:44

Mark one of the

26:46

reasons the team started to play short was the

26:48

numbers were crunched and as Michael said it was

26:51

proven empirically that you

26:53

had more chance only by

26:55

a few decimal points of

26:58

scoring a goal creating a chance whatever

27:00

it was of course it also raises

27:02

the possibility of you conceding a goal

27:04

so therefore however many years later

27:06

we now have more goals in top level football

27:09

yeah it's marginal gains that you want to try

27:11

and create and innovate but then people become wise

27:13

to those marginal gains and they try to counter

27:15

it it's what I thought I mentioned before and

27:18

as Michael said there is a we've all

27:20

said there's an element of risk and reward and

27:22

yeah there's a few that come to mind with

27:24

Brighton actually the end there's a few is it

27:26

against Bournemouth where it was a calamitous one but

27:28

as Michael said it felt like it was actually

27:30

quite normal you sort

27:33

of thought okay well it's par for

27:35

the course and it probably speaks to something I'd like to speak

27:37

to on this episode that

27:39

managers are really quite dogmatic more dogmatic

27:41

than they've ever been so you carry

27:43

on doing it normally it's like okay

27:46

we won't make that mistake again maybe we'll go long

27:48

for a couple of balls and then the next few

27:50

goal kicks but it's like no Post The

28:00

party because they take on so much responsibility of

28:02

say no I want them to do this Nets

28:04

like Unites specialists on the chose him we did

28:06

did a puck us on this about you know

28:08

how you play when you've you've heard of I

28:10

pods and no criticism of the Spurs back for

28:12

for how that speed you know a potion time

28:14

to time with a high like as they are

28:16

the ones in implementing a tactic. Sides yeah sides

28:18

plumber a while situation in that regard I think

28:20

that depressing as well guy up across the board

28:22

it just has his again for both ends right

28:24

because if a team shot of reagan the bill

28:26

higher degree more than two plates very and then

28:28

if they regain at the gonna win. It closer

28:30

to go I think the ball python is going

28:32

up as well partly because teams must be as

28:34

much as other not smashing a long as much

28:37

your you tube gonna get by she much fewer

28:39

sermons health of outside the building on the pitch

28:41

more legit the means he should get more taxing

28:43

she get more go with i can we you

28:46

pretty much as well that beyond oh that touch

28:48

the points against us to bit longer now side

28:50

even an extra five ten minutes units happens nine

28:52

times ten times as you know across a pretty

28:54

games as a whole up so much west which

28:57

is quite boring. Explanation machinery quite insightful but it

28:59

is true. So and another

29:01

reduction in. Loss.

29:03

Aversion is that we'll we'll call it

29:05

Teams are on a think. This is

29:08

in keeping ways elite level spore. Across

29:10

the board, we've mentioned baseball a

29:12

few times on this book Ossetia

29:14

for a reason. There are parallels

29:16

with what we see in football

29:18

Michael Broadly this idea that. Going

29:21

for it being playing with less

29:23

fear of what might happen against

29:26

shoot at will help you execute.

29:28

Positive. Outcomes more naturally, more

29:31

easily and and. This.

29:33

Seems to be part of of football tactics of the

29:35

top level as well. What we're talking about to that.

29:38

Yeah. and i think people want a

29:40

certain type of football now i mean

29:42

again go back a few years that

29:44

was quite an elite group of clubs

29:46

where there was really since the had

29:48

to pay the right way the manager

29:50

had come in and play good football

29:52

was is happening all over the premier

29:54

league now is not many primly cubs

29:56

were in i think sam allardyce could

29:58

go in and do it good job

30:00

in terms of results and keep the supporters

30:02

happy in terms of entertainment. We're

30:04

seeing it from, for example, Crystal Palace fans. There's

30:06

been a bit of a backlash against

30:09

the way they're playing, a sense

30:11

of they're playing quite boring football. It'll be

30:13

interesting to see what happens with Everton, I

30:15

think, over the next couple of years, because

30:17

in terms of results, Sean Diesch is doing

30:19

excellently. But when you watch a 90-minute

30:21

game, they are very direct. With

30:25

the big new stadium, with quite a

30:27

grand old club with traditions of attacking football, it'll

30:30

be interesting to see whether there is boredom that

30:32

creeps in with that philosophy too. What's

30:34

been happening with cards, with

30:36

discipline? Because I feel like in

30:38

2023 we really lurched from one

30:41

end of the spectrum to the other. Yeah, there

30:43

was a record low number of red cards last season,

30:45

which also feels a bit odd to what we're saying

30:48

about the risks that players are taking in and build

30:50

up and impressing and that if Centre-back loses the ball

30:52

into the box, then they might feel

30:54

a rush to sort of pull someone over

30:56

or make a tactical foul, being a bit

30:58

more exposed. Maybe it's just a quality rise

31:00

that players are better, smarter decision makers now

31:02

and know when to make tackles,

31:04

know when to not make tackles and just execute

31:07

their actions better. I imagine the past accuracy continues

31:09

to trend up and things like that and coaches

31:11

probably put tactical decisions in place to limit those

31:13

flaws better than ever. I think Markz might

31:15

have the number specifically, but we're now seeing,

31:17

and this is again, I think a VAR

31:20

thing, or a refereeing thing more broadly about,

31:22

I don't know, is

31:24

the word crackdown for the discipline, petulance,

31:27

the bookings and the gesturing, kicking the

31:29

ball away, etc. Yeah, things like

31:31

dissent, things like time wasting are being clamped down on

31:33

far more, so you're already kind of walking a bit

31:35

of a tight rope if you do something like that

31:37

in the first 20 minutes, then

31:39

just a soft tackle or

31:41

a tough challenge is then going to be another

31:44

yellow and then you're off and it just seems

31:46

to be happening more and more. By

31:48

December 3rd, so obviously at the start of this month,

31:50

there were 31 red

31:52

cards in 140 Premier League games this season,

31:54

which was at that point already more than there

31:57

were in all 380 matches in the season. the

32:00

season before. We're currently at 37 red

32:02

cards in total, that includes straight reds

32:04

and second yellows. So yeah, 30 last

32:07

season, 43 the season

32:09

before. So I think across

32:11

the Premier League era we're on for a

32:13

record-breaking number of red cards. I do think

32:15

it is more the the clamp down on

32:17

the silly sort

32:19

of challenges and the silly

32:21

petulancy as you say Liam, rather than it necessarily

32:23

being that the game has got a bit more dirty

32:26

in the challenges. VAR as you say comes into

32:28

it as well. I think it's been a few

32:31

occasions I've seen which is just more maybe

32:33

it's the thinking of things about build-up as

32:35

well where I've seen it a few times

32:37

with either defensive midfielders or full backs coming

32:40

inside that they're collecting the ball with pressure.

32:42

They're taking a heavy touch and then the

32:44

subsequent touch is a 50-50 duel

32:46

and they're just that little bit too high.

32:48

With VAR with a still image it always

32:50

looks really nasty. It happened with Yves Passuma

32:52

last Friday and I feel like those sorts

32:54

of ones are on the increase as well.

32:56

Definitely feels like it doesn't it? I mean

32:58

there was the Romero against Chelsea which he

33:00

didn't get sent off for then latterly did

33:03

get sent off for something in their

33:05

own box. I wonder if we can make

33:07

a pretty clear link between the

33:10

slightly more open football that we're watching,

33:12

more onus on man-to-man

33:15

moments and duels and the increased speed.

33:17

It always gets quicker and quicker. The

33:20

players get more athletic while maintaining the

33:22

highest possible technical level and

33:24

these types of challenges that we see. As

33:27

you say I feel like

33:30

nowadays there's much less someone's

33:32

trying to injure someone. Someone's actually put in

33:34

a reducer for you know I don't even

33:36

really know why that ever happened but it

33:38

felt like it used to happen quite a

33:40

lot. You could tell someone's just trying to

33:42

stick one on the opposition player. Now

33:44

we get straight reds cards for serious

33:46

foul play which look terrible and can

33:48

be leg breakers while also being

33:51

just a tiny misjudgment. Yeah

33:54

the margins have become smaller right? I

33:56

think there's tactical repercussions of that or

33:58

technical repercussions on an individual player. level

34:00

that if full-backs are going

34:02

to get booked more then better dribblers should

34:04

have a lot more success because they've got

34:06

more opportunity to go at someone without or

34:08

with a reduced chance of being tackled and

34:10

fall back to a better jockeying players or

34:12

you know can defend better 1v1 that move

34:14

their feet better that can match dry patterns

34:16

should work because if they're you know I'm

34:18

thinking maybe someone more like Wama Saako who

34:20

feels more tackle heavy he's going to struggle

34:22

a lot more to defend

34:24

in his style on a yellow card because he

34:26

can't dive in as much naturally so I think

34:29

you can then see who can adapt their game

34:31

better then the reverse of that in possession is

34:34

I guess if you're going to get more yellow

34:36

cards and more bookings you're going to want better

34:38

controllers of play you know you need that central

34:40

midfielder sometimes who can stand the ball who can

34:42

keep possession I'm thinking of you know Bruno Fernandes

34:45

being outrageously creative but at times isn't always the

34:47

midfielder United need to actually you know controllable control

34:49

the game and then he got he missed the

34:51

Liverpool game right because he got a fifth booking

34:54

for a petron foul or something I think it was

34:56

so you then need certain types of profile I think

34:59

in order to adapt that it's it's basically become to

35:02

use a rugby example my rugby knowledge isn't great but

35:04

from what I've seen and I know that Michael will

35:06

love this is that um it basically becomes a game

35:09

itself for the first 60 minutes and then the subs

35:11

come on they really completely change the game it's then

35:13

kind of like okay what's your game plan for for

35:16

60 and of course with five subs

35:18

now there's you know more time for the game

35:20

to open up that way but it's then how

35:22

do you win lose or draw the game in

35:24

the final half an hour with maybe a slightly

35:26

different approach that was exactly my point that I

35:28

was going to say about substitutions I wonder whether

35:30

again looking forward we may be even seeing more

35:32

substitutions in the first half especially if it's a

35:34

player or more a position where you think okay

35:36

they might get caught out here and you see

35:38

it often more in the second

35:40

half or towards the end of a game okay

35:43

we need to bring him off because he's he's

35:45

on a yellow he maybe made a bit of

35:47

an agricultural challenge there his head's a little bit

35:49

spinning we need to take him off I wonder

35:51

whether that'll happen more in the first half because

35:53

we've they've got more opportunity to

35:55

make subs you know with five substitutions being

35:57

available but you know I reckon that definitely

36:00

will happen and I'll always think of you

36:02

when it does. There you go predictions. They

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the athletic. In

37:51

terms of the most important clubs

37:53

in 2023, we must have spoken more about Manchester City

37:55

than any other team. On Merit, they won. incredible

38:00

treble. But Mark when you look

38:02

at the Premier League table for

38:05

the calendar year, there probably is one

38:07

team that and only one

38:09

team where you have to genuinely do a

38:11

double take. Yeah it's absolutely nuts. So Chelsea

38:13

would have 42 points thinking

38:16

only of the calendar year which would put them

38:19

in the relegation zone if we were to consider

38:21

only the teams who have played both this season

38:23

and last season in the Premier League which technically

38:26

isn't true. There'd be one position above

38:28

the fake relegation zone

38:30

here based purely on goal difference

38:33

but that's simply because the

38:35

other teams will have played 38 or 39.

38:37

So they've actually played more games which see

38:39

more opportunity to accrue more points and they

38:41

still haven't taken it. But the

38:44

point still remains they've averaged just 1.1 points

38:46

per game as an average across the whole

38:49

calendar year and I just started to dig further

38:51

and further into this and I got some fun stats

38:53

from it. So they've only won 10

38:56

games this calendar year only Crystal Palace

38:58

and Nottingham Forest have won fewer. They've

39:00

only won back to back games twice

39:02

in the calendar year. That was

39:04

last season against Leicester and Leeds who

39:06

we know both went down and this

39:08

season Burnley and Fulham. They've lost 18

39:11

games in the calendar year only Bournemouth

39:13

have lost more. They've obviously started the

39:16

year with Graham Potter as their manager. Frank

39:18

Lampard came in had some interim

39:21

along the way and Pochettino coming in as well.

39:23

It's just nuts and my favourite one actually was

39:25

on Twitter. Rhys James obviously got injured a couple

39:27

of weeks ago and was out for the rest

39:29

of the year. Rhys James ended

39:32

2023 having won only one Premier

39:35

League game all year and that

39:37

was a 4-1 win over Spurs when they went

39:39

down to nine men. So it's just it that

39:41

Chelsea we're talking about it's just it's

39:43

nuts to me but this is the case. Can

39:45

you tell how outraged I am? It just reminds

39:47

me of the comedian

39:49

Michael Spicers bit

39:52

about football pundits just sitting

39:54

there in TV studios going this

39:56

is Manchester United Football Club. We're

39:58

talking about Manchester United. Yeah, I did

40:00

go a bit Gary Neville there. It

40:03

is astounding and Anis-horribilis

40:05

for Chelsea. But how

40:08

about the Anis-mirabilis for

40:11

Aston Villa? Yeah, I thought you were

40:13

going to say when there's one team you have to double check. I

40:15

thought you were going to say it's Aston Villa.

40:17

Second in terms of most points, one, an incredible

40:19

job from Unai Emery, who of course wasn't in

40:22

charge for that much longer before

40:24

this calendar year. But

40:27

they've been fantastic. The organisation

40:29

is tremendous, as we expect from an

40:31

Unai Emery side. I quite

40:34

like what they've done with their formation

40:36

in recent weeks. It's 4-4-2, but elements

40:38

are 3-5-2 as well, with Matty Cash

40:40

and Konser playing quite clever roles down

40:42

the right. Oli Watkins, who I must

40:44

admit I wasn't convinced would ever be

40:46

prolific at Premier League level, has

40:48

really evolved this season, is a really,

40:51

really clever player. Aston Villa

40:53

reporter Jacob Townswell has done a couple

40:56

of really good pieces on him and

40:58

Emery encouraging him to basically restrict his

41:00

movement to goal-scoring positions, stay

41:02

between the penalty area rather than drifting out

41:05

wide. And the other interesting

41:07

thing, which I quite like the fact I

41:09

was at Kenilworth Road a couple of weeks

41:11

ago for Luton against Manchester City, and I

41:13

heard two Luton fans discussing

41:15

Aston Villa's offside stats one.

41:18

It felt like quite a weird

41:20

kind of conversation for actual match-going

41:22

fans rather than people on a Football Tactics

41:24

podcast. But as we're recording, Aston

41:28

Villa have caught the opposition offside 82 times

41:31

this season. The next most is

41:33

Tottenham on 56. Obviously, offside stats

41:35

are a little bit unreliable

41:37

now because you don't always actually get it. Even

41:40

if you catch someone offside, the play might not

41:42

stop, etc. But

41:45

that sums up how well they are squeezing the play.

41:48

And that's just Unai Emery all over in terms

41:50

of his organisation. Although, I suppose quite a different

41:52

approach from the Emery we've seen before, where

41:54

sometimes they actually, it seems actually

41:56

played quite deep. But yeah, Villa have been fantastic.

42:00

I think are actually a contender for the title. I know

42:02

people are talking about a contender for the top four, but

42:04

I think if you get to this stage of the season

42:06

and you know where they are in the league, you've

42:09

got to consider them. They're set up really well to have a

42:11

deep run in the conference league as well, right? When you look

42:13

at Emory's pedigree and the fact that they're

42:16

consistently good at starting games well with control, going one

42:19

of the lap in games, and their style, if you

42:21

want to compare that to another one, really is the

42:23

fact that one of Brighton's problems this

42:25

season has been going one of the down in games and

42:27

then wanting to play a possession system which is harder against

42:29

a deeper block. And I actually

42:31

went to and wrote on the Villa Fulham game,

42:33

which I'm sure will live long in the memory

42:36

for many people, at the back end of last

42:38

season. Fulham were without Mitrovic or Mitoli, but Villa

42:41

were so controlled and they took time to break

42:43

them down. They did end up winning, but I've

42:45

really liked how they've got a real clear sort

42:47

of tattoo identity, but with enough room to be

42:49

a little bit flexible too. And if you sort

42:51

of compare that to Chelsea, who I feel

42:54

like they've just been chopping and changing the whole column

42:56

of the year, the fact that they I think were

42:58

going to possibly sack Grand Potter if they lost against

43:00

Dortmund in the Champions League and they got through and

43:03

then didn't have like a replacement lined up when they did

43:05

eventually sack him. I thought that just, it

43:07

feels like really poor foresight. My perspective on,

43:09

you know, when you've recruited so heavily and

43:12

had so many signings, whereas Villa

43:14

actually had, I think, understandably some criticism over the

43:16

players they brought in as these are

43:18

good profiles, but will they actually sort of elevate the team?

43:20

And now they've gone from last season

43:22

being a real sort of left side rotating

43:24

team where I think it was

43:27

Alex Moreno a lot or Luca Dean would really push

43:29

forward down that left side and the left side of

43:31

winger would move in and you get those sort of

43:33

number tens and John McGinn's done that excellently this season

43:35

against City was a great example. And Tom Harris, one

43:38

of our writers wrote about that, sort of being

43:40

able to receive and spin players they, you know,

43:42

they build short, but again, when we were thinking

43:44

about the directness earlier on, we'll go sort of

43:46

goalkeeper to centre back short and then it's centre

43:49

back into number nine or centre back into number

43:51

ten and set and play from there.

43:53

So what they're

43:55

doing might be unsustainable to a degree, it's hard to

43:57

always go one lap in games and to always hit

43:59

the game. the top teams. They're

44:01

really, really exciting to watch by virtue, I think, of

44:04

being a bit different as well. There's a good amount

44:06

where you go, I know I'm going to get when

44:08

I watch a Villa game and still a bit of

44:10

unpredictability and it clearly works as a good balance against

44:13

the top teams. Games state massively affects things. We're seeing

44:15

it with Arsenal this season in contrast to last season

44:17

of them scoring early on and things like that. But

44:19

while we're listing games that we've

44:21

been to, I went to AstaNivre against Manchester United

44:23

towards the end of last season. The reason I

44:26

say it is because they were holding a really

44:28

high line then as well and it was still

44:30

fairly early on for Unai Emery and it just

44:32

looked like they were just asking for trouble. There was

44:35

just deep runs, especially from Marcus Rashford as well, and

44:37

they were so dogmatic in keeping that high line and

44:39

I was just like you need to just drop off

44:41

a couple of yards when you know that the player

44:43

is about to play the pass without

44:46

pressure on the ball. You're just asking for

44:48

trouble. But the reason I say

44:50

it is because to Michael's point about the statistics,

44:52

they're doing it so, so well now. They're triggers

44:54

and they're understanding of time on

44:56

the training pitch. They are doing it so,

44:59

so much better and it was noticeable from

45:01

that game I went to, to now how

45:03

brave they are off the ball in holding

45:05

that line, but also how successful they are.

45:07

So it's obviously testament from towards the start

45:10

of the year to now how much Emery

45:12

has really instilled that really

45:15

structured way of playing. They went to Newcastle on

45:17

the opening day and got smashed 5-1 with the

45:19

high line. They went to Liverpool on game week

45:21

4 and got completely pressed to death. They're

45:23

prepared to have the extremely bad moments and the

45:25

bad losses and to have the overall success.

45:27

Maybe that's the motto of football

45:30

in 2023. Be

45:32

more open to the bad moments to

45:35

increase the chances of the good ones. Michael,

45:38

we also had the Women's World Cup over

45:41

our summer, certainly not the summer in

45:43

the southern hemisphere where you were covering

45:45

this for the athletic. Loads of really

45:47

interesting tactical bits and bobs from the

45:49

Women's World Cup. Yeah, it was a

45:51

fantastic tournament. The interesting thing I think

45:53

overall was the fact that there was

45:55

an expansion to 32 teams and

45:57

yet the competitiveness was still there.

46:00

You know, four years ago there was school

46:02

on about 13-0 when the US beat Thailand. But

46:04

we don't have anything like that. It was

46:06

incredible. I think a lot of that was a physical

46:09

improvement from some of the outsiders. But

46:11

in terms of more specifics, there were five key

46:13

themes I've kind of got here. One

46:15

was the lack of individualism. And that was a

46:18

big change from four years ago, where it felt

46:20

like certain players, particularly for the US, were just

46:22

miles ahead of everyone else, could dominate the game.

46:24

They weren't able to do that this time around.

46:26

Of course, the US were maybe the big underachievers

46:29

of the tournament. The

46:31

second factor I've got is the compactness. When we

46:33

spoke about it in relation to the Premier League,

46:35

where sometimes you don't have that compactness because the

46:37

game is so stretched, but the women's game, everything

46:40

was squashed really into the middle third. And again,

46:42

that meant that individual players couldn't make the difference.

46:45

There was a massive shift towards in-swinging corners.

46:48

And I was at a game in Wellington

46:50

between Sweden initially, where Sweden scored from three

46:52

of them. And

46:54

FIFA's technical study group found that in-swing

46:56

deliveries from the left, compared to

46:58

2019, had gone from 41% to 89%. And

47:02

from the right had gone from 21% to 56%. So

47:05

that was just a massive theme. And it did kind

47:07

of dominate games a little bit too much. And

47:10

in the latter stages, there was also a real

47:12

emphasis on basically just keeping your starting 11 on

47:14

the pitch together. There were five subs available for

47:16

the first time. But actually, a lot

47:19

of the games, you really wouldn't have noticed it.

47:21

A few of the managers said they worried about

47:23

subs picking up the speed of the game, which

47:25

I think is quite interesting. And again,

47:27

the game is more intense than a

47:29

few years ago. The crowds are bigger.

47:31

I think actually, we've spoken before about

47:33

having a coach who just focus on

47:35

substitutes. I mean, I almost

47:37

think that was maybe lacking in this World

47:39

Cup, because subs just didn't make that much

47:42

of an impact. And finally, just a very

47:44

low goals per game rate, the lowest ever,

47:47

a lot lower than you would get at the men's

47:49

World Cup or in men's top level leagues. There were

47:51

a few factors in that. I would say

47:53

one of the main ones was just a good goalkeeping. That's

47:56

been the area that the women's game was criticized

47:58

for before. Mariette, Stephanie

48:00

Phantoms the laws that your new savage

48:02

catch a cold Who came into Spain midway

48:04

through tournament? The goalkeeping that really high

48:06

level. So again it relates to the fact

48:09

that we didn't see these Big Thirty new

48:11

games and that there were a lot one

48:13

know the law to knows not very many

48:16

games were both had scored for. All

48:18

in all, it's very competitive. Plenty A major

48:20

tournament to come next year in Twenty Twenty

48:22

Four will be across it all on the

48:24

Athletic Football Tactics Podcast for the fifty second

48:27

time in Twenty Twenty Three and the

48:29

last time. Let me say, I

48:31

really enjoyed. that's. Nice guys

48:33

Michael to Mark to live for

48:35

joining me today and on so

48:37

many other occasions in was been a

48:39

highly enjoyable yes presenting this podcast.

48:41

Had like to also thank our extended

48:44

families on the tactics powder other

48:46

contributors such as Duncan on that a

48:48

Tom Harris as well but also

48:50

it's the production team that spend

48:52

so much time making us sound better

48:54

and making this punk cost at

48:56

the best that it can be for

48:59

you guys to enjoy sex. Thanks

49:01

to you for listening Whether. It's today

49:03

for the first time, in which case we

49:05

hope you'll join us more regularly or if

49:07

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49:10

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49:12

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