0:01

Hey,

0:01

Sean. You know what I don't get invited to anymore?

0:04

A lot. A lot of things.

0:06

It's like

0:07

a lot of things. A lot of things. Mhmm. I

0:09

mean, people just stop for various

0:12

reasons, but mostly weddings

0:14

because, you know, I know why III

0:17

declined them all because it's just too hard to figure out what

0:19

to wear. That's why that's why I stopped going.

0:22

And, you know, it's because it was an easy

0:24

Indochino. Sean, because

0:26

this is a product that I'm a fan

0:29

of. I would go to weddings

0:31

just like completely frothy suits

0:34

that, like, I have short arms, and the arms

0:36

were too long, and I have short leg, but, like, it's

0:38

long even though I'm taller than you. And You're

0:40

addressing up there. Mhmm. And up there all it straps over.

0:42

I would I would generally generally.

0:46

And then too late, like,

0:48

I missed my life wedding season. Too late did

0:50

I cover, Indochino, who I did

0:52

the whole bit where went online and

0:55

they they walked me through all the measuring and

0:57

I I had Calvin with the tape measure

0:59

measuring my arms and I

1:02

ordered

1:03

properly fitting pants and properly

1:05

fitting dress shirts, including one

1:07

that has my initials on the cup

1:08

length, which you modeled in, which is That's

1:11

class. Thomas. Like

1:14

doubting

1:14

Thomas. Like my father. To support

1:17

us. And then

1:19

I mean, that's just your opinion. And

1:22

I tell you what, it showed up in the mail and

1:25

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1:27

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2:06

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2:21

athletic NHL.

2:52

This is the athletic hockey

2:54

show. Hey,

3:08

everybody. It's your friendly Tuesday

3:10

host, Craig Custons, joined by

3:13

by traveling

3:14

mate, Shonstantially. It's been a

3:16

while since that one, buddy. And

3:18

why don't we travel together is what I'm

3:20

Hazing.

3:21

It's I I know what you meant, Sean.

3:23

I don't think you were paid extremely to me.

3:26

It's been a long week. We've seen we've seen a lot of

3:28

each other. We've seen a lot. And can you

3:30

tell the bickering? We we spent

3:32

last week at the NHL GM's meetings

3:35

in in we were in Boynton Beach because

3:37

we couldn't afford to stay at the the resort

3:39

--

3:39

Yeah. -- at all times we're staying at.

3:43

And so I'm sure we'll get into some of that.

3:45

Our second segment is

3:48

we were joined by Katie Strang who with Haley

3:50

Salveen wrote and I I'm assuming

3:53

everybody's read this, but if you haven't, the Harvard

3:55

womens hockey story, you

3:58

know, the the Katie Stone story that got into

4:00

some of the hazing and the traditions

4:02

and just a mess

4:04

there. And, you know, they're they're news

4:07

emerging yesterday Monday

4:09

that that Harvard has hired Generin

4:11

Block to

4:12

investigate. So things are happening

4:14

there.

4:14

Yes. It was in a real two usual

4:16

insight. By by

4:18

by those Like,

4:19

great reports work. Yeah.

4:21

Yeah. So definitely I mean, that's that's

4:23

gonna be the meat of this podcast because that

4:25

just ended up being a great conversation. Feel

4:27

free to skip ahead to that if you'd like. But

4:31

please or hit, like, put us on, like,

4:33

times three. Sean, I just wanna

4:35

say, I don't think we the

4:37

fact that we both traveled to the GMs.

4:39

We didn't coordinate the travel that much aside

4:41

from, like, hey, were you Hazing? And that

4:43

you were my adjoining

4:45

room. I've had a lot of time to think about

4:47

that. And I it seems like too

4:49

much of a coincidence. The

4:52

Did I did I did I call behind

4:54

the

4:54

door between it? Oh, I don't know.

4:57

Did I did I grease some palm to make

4:59

this happen?

5:00

You checked in before I did actually. Maybe

5:04

this is his name too. I

5:07

know all your aliases, brother. Yeah.

5:09

We stayed in an adjoining room.

5:12

What we were calling back. We

5:15

got dinner

5:15

to go check-in is Craig The America

5:18

in is my assumed name. It's a Greg

5:20

guston sect. Actually. We

5:23

came back from dinner on on the first night,

5:25

one of the two dinners we had together. And

5:28

cut off on the second floor and

5:30

walked down room 206,

5:33

room 208, baby. What

5:36

a special producer,

5:37

Jeff, thinking, why don't you

5:38

just record a podcast or segment or three

5:40

so he doesn't have to do all work

5:41

yesterday? Yeah. He just we

5:43

we gave each other proper space. I a lot

5:45

of boundaries. Give it to their space and and also

5:47

and also producer Jeff was on vacation

5:49

at a wonderful undisclosed location,

5:52

so we didn't wanna bother him with anything.

5:54

We wouldn't talk Like, I'm I'm very done

5:56

talking about the GM

5:57

meetings, by the way. Don't ask me anything

5:58

about that. Did you we can't talk about anything? Mhmm.

6:01

How many times have

6:03

you? You and Russo had a story today about

6:05

the fighting after clean hits. I love

6:07

that topic.

6:08

Yeah. It's really interesting. Is But yeah.

6:11

No. I think it's good. III think people

6:13

do care about it. Like, people like, oh, they gotta

6:15

answer. And III tweeted that story

6:17

out this morning and people are

6:18

like, hey, that's fine and good, but do we

6:20

know what a clean hit is in the moment? And I'm like, yeah.

6:23

That's probably That's it. Honestly, that was

6:25

that was kind of the problem. Yeah. Russo So

6:29

we he and I have written a bunch of stuff come out

6:31

of the GM meetings. Most of it has been

6:33

published. We still have one thing that we're gonna do.

6:36

Where we did some reporting down there that's gonna that

6:38

that has yet to be written and yet to be published,

6:41

but done a lot, collaborated

6:43

on most of it, Ruso held the pen on

6:45

that one. He wrote and

6:49

he wrote the majority of it. And

6:51

of course, like, whatever. It's Russo.

6:54

It's the Wild. They have, like,

6:57

one of the main I

6:59

don't wanna say perpetrators, but one of the faces

7:01

of of this concept that, you know, that that

7:03

there are fights after clean hits constantly and

7:05

whatever, in that dumb book,

7:08

So, of course, Russo led

7:12

with a Matt dump with a with a Matt dumb

7:14

hit from a couple months ago when

7:16

he Did somebody clean had to fight

7:18

over? I think Specialnikava was maybe involved with it.

7:22

Great. Like, of course, that was the lead. Then

7:24

he and the microphone is on Saturday.

7:27

I think I think is is when he finished it.

7:30

On Sunday

7:33

or or Monday, what I

7:35

At some point between my between the time

7:37

that Mike wrote his first lead about Matt Domba

7:40

fighting after a clean hit, Matt Domba

7:42

fought after another clean hit. And I

7:44

think it was on I think it was on Sunday.

7:47

So we just, like, reworked it and kind

7:49

of tweaked it and and made it apply to to

7:51

the other incident that Apple because this

7:53

is something happens to map down by specifically,

7:56

like Daily almost. Maybe

7:58

every thousands of times. Maybe

8:02

So, yeah, it is it's funny and it

8:04

it is a real it it's a problem. GM's

8:07

hate it. Their main issue with it is that

8:11

their main solution for it is not

8:13

necessarily falling

8:16

back on the instigator or calling instigator

8:18

more which I think was kind of one of the

8:20

surprises to come out of the discussions that we had

8:22

with with those guys.

8:26

As long as they get power play out of it, they're

8:28

cool. That's basically what it boils down to. So they're

8:30

saying whatever mechanism it takes, whether you call

8:32

it roughing, or in sports, like conduct,

8:35

or in certain instances, the instigator,

8:37

like, whatever that may be. If the

8:39

end result is that the team

8:42

that has the player who delivers

8:44

the clean hit and then gets jumped after

8:46

it or is or whatever is

8:49

forced to fight. As long as you

8:51

have a power play coming out of it, like,

8:53

they're cool. They're not worried about.

8:55

I think that's okay. A lot where it comes from, which I think

8:57

is fine. Which is fine. And it was also a little bit

8:59

of a surprise because, like, my my question was, like,

9:02

you know, you hear about this and you say like, okay.

9:04

Well, isn't the easiest

9:06

solution for that just calling the instigator? And

9:08

like, maybe it is, but that's also for

9:10

better or worse, whether you agree with it or not,

9:13

that is not a route

9:16

that GMs wanna go down all that often because

9:18

it puts players out of commission for

9:21

seventeen minutes. Right? Because they because they have

9:23

the -- Right. -- they have the minor, they have the major, and

9:25

then they have the misconduct. So

9:28

whatever route we take, I guess, to

9:30

to that end where, you know, where

9:32

players are actually penalized for starting

9:35

something with, you know, with

9:37

a guy after clean hit they're they're fine with.

9:39

So and I think that's, like, kind of, the through line for

9:41

the for the for the piece, but, you know, actually

9:44

act taking that principle and actually applying

9:46

under kinda two different things.

9:49

Big news today, this is great

9:51

news for those in the they

9:55

like to buy jerseys and and

9:57

anything to wear from their favorite team's

9:59

ten year deal between the NHL and Fanatics.

10:01

Great news. Great news. Great

10:04

news. Do you wear your fanatics now? I love

10:06

fanatics. Yeah. Have

10:07

you ever bought anything from fanatics?

10:09

I haven't. So I'll come clean. I haven't. I

10:11

haven't. I

10:11

haven't ever bought anything from fanatics.

10:14

Well, sure it's a great Well, my column

10:16

on the topic is just gone live.

10:18

Oh, really? Yeah,

10:21

Fanatics sucks. I have some bad news

10:23

for you. Their

10:26

products terrible. Most people don't

10:29

like it, and they are now

10:31

locked into a tenure too with the NHL

10:33

to be their official on ice

10:36

uniform supplier, which is, you know,

10:40

the repercussions of that for players, like, they're

10:42

they're gonna get that. Right? The odds that these guys

10:44

are wearing you know, stuff that

10:46

whatever irritates their

10:48

skin. Seriously. It's it's

10:50

it's it's probably not gonna happen, though, I will say.

10:52

I will say when Adidas was still making

10:55

NBA uniforms. This is whatever

10:58

ten years ago at this point almost. They

11:00

made the ones with sleeves. And

11:03

players hated them because the

11:05

sleeves were restricted or whatever. And you know,

11:07

Adidas spends like a gazillion dollars

11:09

huge, huge marketing budget you know, makes

11:11

a big deal out of, like, hey, you can wear hoop jerseys

11:13

with with sleeves and now buy them, you know, at

11:16

the official NBA store run by Fanatics,

11:18

by the way. Players

11:21

hated him and LeBron James at one point tore

11:23

the sleeves off the jerseys on the court.

11:25

So, like, it's not out of the realm of

11:27

possibility that something happens, that players

11:30

like freak out in your bell over. It's

11:32

happened recently in in professional

11:34

sports. So

11:37

whatever. Like, there's gonna be an

11:39

f logo on the back of NHL jerseys and

11:42

they're gonna so it's probably not that much

11:44

is gonna change players. It's just reminder

11:46

of how shit this product is for

11:48

people who bought it, who bought Fanatics because

11:51

they hate them because they're cheap and fall apart. Despite

11:53

being three hundred dollars or one hundred and

11:55

forty dollars for the for the replica one,

11:57

this

11:58

thing. People are upset about this.

12:00

This like people are

12:01

really upset about this. Because, again, they're

12:04

spending hundreds of dollars on a garment

12:06

in in it in the quality is not

12:08

is not what they expect. If they're

12:11

cheap. The fabric fades. Washing

12:14

them is tough. Letters peel off.

12:17

Like, it's not good stuff. I

12:20

thought, like, the lead of my column is

12:22

about a t shirt that I bought from there that I hate it.

12:26

I I hate fanatics. I'm

12:30

mad. So

12:33

it and it's and from business standpoint, it's interesting

12:35

too because fanatics is, like, this. All of a sudden,

12:37

it's this, like, omni presence, you know, company

12:40

that's trying to turn itself into Amazon of sports

12:42

openly because, you know, Like Amazon

12:44

started with books, fanatics started

12:47

with t shirts and and baseball

12:49

caps and whatever. And now they're moving into

12:51

other spaces, whether it's Fanatics

12:53

gambling or sports cards or

12:55

whatever. They're you know, they have a ton they have

12:57

a ton of funding raised two

12:59

billion dollars last year. So they're

13:01

not going away anytime soon. Right?

13:04

The issue is that it's a shitty experience

13:07

for consumers. It's

13:10

almost the only it's now functionally

13:12

the only the only place that you can buy

13:15

NHL Jersey's and people are not

13:17

satisfied with with the experience

13:19

top to bottom, whether it's the price they pay or the

13:21

way this stuff fits at a customer service

13:23

experience or whatever. People generally

13:26

don't like it. And again,

13:28

this is the company that the league has signed

13:30

a ten year deal with by the

13:33

by the

13:33

way. So we'll see what happens with that.

13:35

Howard Bauchner:

13:37

Is there any, like because fanatics,

13:39

I think a year ago, bought tops like

13:42

you said, it started out, hey, they're doing hats

13:44

or whatever. I

13:46

don't think it's great for fans if one

13:48

company kind controls everything answer

13:51

into buying. There's there's

13:53

a kind of a monopoly aspect to it. We we're

13:55

like, I don't know. Like, if you if it's not good, all

13:57

of a sudden, everything you like about kind of the periphery

13:59

of sports and purchasing things becomes

14:01

a negative experience if it's not if you're not

14:03

careful. Because when Totally neutral and

14:05

it is. And for better or worse, it's also similar,

14:08

like, they say this is, like, a positive

14:10

thing in a business sense it is because god knows

14:12

Amazon is, you know, the ten

14:14

thousand pound gorilla, like, globally.

14:17

But They say the Amazon is sports

14:19

like it's a good thing. And that's

14:21

and it's not necessarily like, not

14:23

from for any number of reasons.

14:26

Right? Whether it's Amazon's treatment up treatment

14:28

of it. Of its of its warehouse workers

14:30

or whatever, that sucks. Like, that

14:32

that's not something you should want to openly compare

14:34

yourself to. But from a more functional

14:36

level when it comes to, you know,

14:38

the product that fanatics is pushing is

14:41

like, Do you really like shopping

14:44

on Amazon now in twenty twenty

14:46

three? Like, do you feel like that serves you well

14:48

and you get good stuff in it's in it's like

14:50

in it's and you get

14:51

what she does. From a quality standpoint. From

14:54

an experience standpoint, it comes quickly. It's

14:56

fast. It's fast. It's fast. It's

14:58

a lot different it's lot different

15:00

to get, like, to pay five ninety nine

15:02

for a shower curtain because you

15:05

need one and have it arrive in two days

15:07

or whatever. Now I'm gonna have kinda cheap, like, whatever.

15:09

That -- Right. -- principle should

15:12

not apply to a three hundred dollar

15:14

Colorado avalanche jersey. And it does.

15:16

And people are worse off for it and they're not.

15:19

They don't like this company, they don't like its

15:21

products. It's something that they use because

15:23

it's omnipresent and just and

15:25

they've done a good job of getting licenses and

15:28

producing product quickly. It's basically it. So

15:30

that's that's where they are where they are and and people

15:32

generally are either neutral on it or actively

15:35

dislike it because they've gotten junk from there.

15:39

Some have been us the Amazon of Hockey

15:42

Podcasts. I don't know if you heard that.

15:44

Vegas to today's sponsor of the

15:46

earthquake crash.

15:50

Sean, I want your thoughts in the pirate the pirates.

15:52

My gosh. I do

15:53

want you to not do it as a dance for sure.

15:55

That's very good God. The

15:58

penguins, but we might have received it for segment three because

16:00

I don't wanna put off this camera to Katie because it

16:02

was so good and important. So

16:04

let's let's just get to that. And if you wanna stick

16:06

around with Sean and I as we kinda maybe

16:09

the Florida Panthers Hazing making

16:11

some noise that's

16:12

waiting for you. Are a bit of a mess. America's

16:15

team, the Jets, since since about the moment

16:17

we adopted them, kind of falling apart. America's

16:20

original team, the flames, probably get in.

16:22

And maybe at this point, So

16:24

we'll get to all that in womens three potentially.

16:26

Maybe we won't. I can't make promises, but

16:29

womens up next Katie Strange.

16:31

In in a great conversation about

16:33

the Harvard story in Katy Stone. This

16:37

episode of The Athleta Hockey Show is

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17:50

Hazing, You know what I don't get invited to

17:52

anymore? A lot of fun

17:54

things. It's like a lot

17:56

a lot of things. Mhmm. I

17:58

mean, people just stop for various

18:01

reasons, but mostly weddings

18:03

because, you know, I know why I I

18:06

declined them all because it's just too hard to figure out

18:08

what to wear. That's why that's why I stopped

18:10

going. And, you know, it's because

18:12

I was an easy Indochino. Sean,

18:15

because this is a product that I'm

18:17

a fan of. I would go to weddings

18:20

dressed like completely frothy

18:22

suits that, like, I have short arms,

18:24

and the arms were too long, and I have short

18:26

legs were, like, too long, even though taller

18:28

than you.

18:29

And you were dressing up there. Mhmm.

18:30

And up there, all that straps over. I would

18:32

I would generally, generally.

18:35

And then too late like,

18:38

I missed my life wedding season, too late did

18:40

I discover Indochino who I did

18:42

the whole fit where went online and

18:44

they they walked me through all the measuring and

18:46

I had Calvin with the tape measure

18:48

measuring my arms and I

18:51

ordered properly fitting pants

18:53

and properly fitting dress shirts,

18:55

including one that has my initials on the

18:57

cuffling. What

18:58

you meant on in, which is That's class.

19:01

Thomas. Like doubting

19:03

Thomas. Like my

19:05

father. To the farthest. And then

19:08

I mean, that's that's just your opinion. And

19:12

I tell you what, it showed up in the mail and

19:14

it fit only clothes I have that fit come from

19:16

Indochino. And here's what you need to

19:18

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19:20

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19:22

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19:24

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19:27

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19:29

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19:31

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19:35

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19:37

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19:40

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19:44

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19:46

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19:48

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19:51

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19:55

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20:00

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20:02

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20:05

the code athletic NHL. That's

20:08

indochino dot com code

20:10

athletic NHL.

20:18

We are now happy to be

20:20

joined by Katie Strang.

20:23

Oh, Katie, first of

20:24

all, it's been way too long. Since you've been on the

20:26

podcast like

20:27

a long time. I

20:28

just wish you would write something notable

20:31

or were worthy of a

20:33

conversation on the Athleta Hockey Show. Occasionally,

20:36

that would be helpful. If

20:38

you haven't read it yet, listener. Katie

20:40

and Ailey Salveen wrote an incredible story

20:43

on the Harvard womens Saki team,

20:46

coach Katie Stone, the

20:48

hazing, the the culture,

20:51

the weirdness, there's so much weirdness

20:53

around that story, which I wanna get

20:55

into. But

20:57

first, as tends to happen after Katie

21:00

files something, there's a follow-up investigation.

21:03

News emerged yesterday, I believe

21:05

that Harvard has hired law firm, Gener

21:07

and Block to conduct review of its

21:10

womens hockey program.

21:12

A lot going on, Katie. So first of

21:14

all, thanks. Thanks for joining us. Thanks

21:17

for having me. And just

21:19

to, you know, pump the tires

21:21

of my coauthor on this fees.

21:23

Haley Salveen was such a force

21:26

in reporting this. And

21:28

so essential, I think, to our

21:31

understanding of so much of, like, the context

21:33

of this speech. She has such a good reputation in

21:36

the hacky world. I

21:38

could not have done this story without her. So

21:40

shout out to Kayley Salveen. But

21:43

yeah. So significant development on

21:47

Monday in that about

21:50

a week and a half after our initial

21:52

story dropped. We

21:54

learned that Harvard had hired

21:58

a pretty prominent, you know, white shoe

22:00

law firm out of Chicago, Generin

22:02

Block to conduct an

22:04

investigation into concerns

22:07

within the program. This

22:09

follows, you know, our story, which, you

22:11

know, contain allegations of, you know,

22:13

an abundance of different

22:16

types of misconduct. So, hazing

22:19

in sensitivity to, you know,

22:22

mental health issues mishandling

22:24

injuries. Just, you know,

22:27

what would categorize is like verbal and

22:29

emotional abuse, mental

22:31

manipulation, and

22:34

just like a a pretty general

22:37

toxic environment within the

22:40

team culture. Yeah.

22:42

So I I think what struck me about

22:44

the follow-up news, and we'll get into the the

22:46

meat of the original story in a second. But like,

22:49

I was like, oh, yeah. I thought we already investigated this

22:51

hybrid in the evening. Right?

22:53

Like, it's like, hey, maybe that first crack

22:55

at it wasn't so thorough. Apparently.

22:57

Yeah, and I actually talked to a

23:00

hazing expert on that who used

23:03

to serve in fact as faculty athlete

23:06

representative, and he talked about,

23:08

you know, the impropriety

23:11

essentially of conducting a

23:14

review in that fashion. Right? Like,

23:16

there's no buffer

23:18

between the institution and

23:22

the investigation. They were they

23:24

were very reticent to call it

23:26

an investigation. They called it, you know, conversations

23:30

in a review. But, I

23:32

mean, certainly talking to players

23:34

that participated in that, that was a concern

23:36

for them. That, it

23:39

was difficult for them to feel like they could

23:41

speak freely and open up and be honest

23:44

without this ever present

23:46

fear of reprisal and

23:48

retribution. So,

23:52

you know, I I think yeah.

23:54

Harvard took a back at it in that fashion.

23:56

I don't think that that review was

23:59

sufficient. And

24:01

so now, I don't think it's any

24:03

huge surprise that they're

24:05

resorting to a much more

24:08

robust probe of

24:10

the program with an outside

24:12

firm. This

24:15

is, like, maybe kind of a basic question,

24:17

but it's something that stuck with me, especially reading

24:19

your story and, you know, seeing

24:22

how it's kind of unfolded over the last

24:24

month or however long.

24:28

What is it about Katie Stone that's given

24:30

her cover for

24:32

for for these actions. Like,

24:35

why why has their response? Not not just

24:37

to your story, but previously. Why

24:40

is the response? Why

24:42

do you think the response from Harvard has been

24:44

so muted? Because these are things

24:48

whether it's Hazing, you know,

24:50

the what certainly seems like emotional

24:52

abuse. Total lack of

24:54

success on ice

24:56

in the in the in the recent

24:59

past. What is it

25:01

about her that's given her cover

25:05

over the last hour, many years because because it's it's

25:07

hard it's from the outside, it's hard to

25:09

see. Like, what's the draw? Why

25:11

does anybody like her? Yeah,

25:16

that's a really good question. And

25:19

I think there are layers to that answer.

25:21

You know, she has

25:24

underwhelmed in terms of

25:26

NICE's success recently.

25:29

But, you know, there were times, especially

25:32

early on where, you know,

25:34

she was a successful coach

25:37

in someone who was

25:39

really adept at leveraging the

25:43

schools, you know, academic pedigree

25:46

in its deep source of alumni

25:49

to entice some of the top players

25:51

at the school. You know, when she

25:53

came on the scene and she was hired in ninety four,

25:55

like, Harvard was not this,

25:58

you know, hockey juggernaut.

26:00

Like, it was in a powerhouse. Like, that was

26:02

still, like, you know, the domain of, like,

26:05

UNH and Northeastern. And she really, like,

26:07

thrust them into prominence. So I

26:09

mean, historically, like, she did have

26:12

success. And

26:14

then I think, you know, part of it is almost

26:16

like inertia. Like, there is

26:19

there's like this sense of like institutional

26:22

continuity with her that she

26:26

has been the personification

26:29

of that the embodiment

26:31

of Harvard Hockey for so long

26:34

that Harvard Hockey has sort of been, you

26:36

know, enmeshed, inextricably

26:40

linked with Katie Stone and

26:42

her personality. So,

26:45

you know, and then I think the other thing

26:47

is she

26:50

she hasn't, from my understanding, in

26:52

our reporting, I I don't think she takes on

26:54

nearly as active role in recruiting.

26:57

As she did, you know, ten, twenty years ago.

27:00

But she has

27:02

done a very skillful job

27:05

at developing this,

27:07

like, very robust, powerful

27:11

group of, you know, alumni

27:13

in a in a network. Of

27:17

people who support her and support

27:19

the program both,

27:21

you know, just in

27:25

ways Fanatics and otherwise.

27:27

And so I think she has a

27:29

lot of people and remember

27:32

that, you know, a lot of these alumni They're,

27:35

you know, really outstanding, like

27:38

professionals. Like, they're at the top of

27:40

their building medicine, You

27:44

know, Fanatics. And and so I think

27:46

she has a lot of powerful people willing

27:50

to go to the map for her and vouch

27:52

for her. And that's given her

27:55

power. Mhmm. And

27:57

she she is,

27:59

by the way, I mean, like, I I didn't Ana

28:01

is she's in part of this because she's been

28:03

there for so long, but she is the all

28:07

time leader in wins in women's

28:09

collegiate hockey. So I I you

28:11

know, didn't mean to make it out. Like, there's been,

28:13

like, any real any true, like,

28:15

long term lack of success. But,

28:18

yeah, it's it's it is it's

28:20

It's fun. It's funky to see, like, you know, she's six and

28:22

thirteen this year. She's been, like, under five hundred

28:24

bunch in the past. She's got horrific

28:27

allegations of all sorts

28:29

of abuse, like credibly credibly

28:32

levied against her for Like Right.

28:35

And I do think it's important to, like, realize

28:37

that, you know, on ice performance doesn't

28:40

happen in a vacuum. In fact,

28:42

you know, I don't think we should be compartmentalizing the

28:45

off ice allegations with the on ice performance.

28:48

Because, you know, players have told us

28:50

that essentially, like, part of the reason

28:52

that teams fall apart down the

28:54

stretch is that there's like

28:56

such there's this underlying, undercurrent

28:59

of tension in toxicity within

29:02

room. So players are, like, pitted against each

29:04

other, or they're there's like some

29:06

of these really toxic dynamics that

29:09

really impacts the on ice

29:11

performance. And so when

29:13

they fade down the stretch, like

29:15

you know, people have said that that

29:18

there's there's that's tied into

29:21

some of the off ice concerns. I

29:23

like that the underlying part of your question,

29:25

Sean, is you can almost tolerate

29:27

this if they were twenty and

29:29

three

29:30

But five and nineteen don't

29:33

know. I'm out. We've seen

29:36

I mean, but that's typically the way it goes.

29:38

With abusive coaches is that if

29:41

the results are there, they're tolerated. It's

29:43

true. It's it's not it's not it is it right?

29:45

Of course not. But when the results start

29:47

to dip, is when there's

29:50

institutional pressure tends

29:52

to be internalized pressure, whether

29:55

it's from alumni or from the athletic director,

29:57

or from the president or from

29:59

somebody other than the players to

30:02

make a change. And that

30:04

to me is what's like, that

30:07

there's a lot of things that differentiate this

30:09

from normal allegations of,

30:12

like, of of

30:14

you know, the kind of of this of

30:16

this type. You know, you don't see

30:18

you don't see everyday coaches

30:21

the programs compared to running the Stanford

30:23

prison experiment, which is which is which

30:25

is just evocative mind

30:28

boggling quote. Right. From

30:30

from one of the players you you

30:33

you too spoke to. But

30:36

there's something about this and something

30:38

about the And this is kinda what I was what what

30:40

I was getting at, and I think you laid it out there.

30:42

There's something about the university response

30:45

to this that is so different and

30:47

so far apart from even things

30:49

from things that we've seen in recent history

30:51

when it comes to allegations like this. The

30:53

rallying behind her is the part

30:55

that is wild

30:58

to me. And we've seen especially in the last

31:00

ten years, as we've seen more and more coaches

31:03

lose their job for for with

31:05

who are for allegations that are far

31:07

less serious than the ones that she's

31:09

facing. That's what's just that's what's that's

31:11

what's endlessly been crazy to me.

31:14

You know, for as as I've watched this

31:16

kind of unfold in in in your work?

31:20

So one thing that I'm not

31:22

as surprised about is like whenever

31:24

I, you know, report on situations

31:27

that involve allegations of abuse,

31:30

inverably, like, the first star

31:32

story involves, you

31:35

know, the perpetrator, you know,

31:38

alleged victims you

31:40

know, the incidence in question, etcetera,

31:42

and almost always, like, the the

31:45

second story, the subsequent stories

31:48

honing on sort of like the institutional

31:51

protectionism.

31:52

Mhmm. And so I'm not

31:54

ever really surprised when

31:58

a university prioritize

32:02

reputational protection over

32:07

you know, the well-being of

32:10

players. And I

32:12

hope that will not be the case here.

32:14

I think them,

32:17

you know, hiring an outside law

32:19

firm to investigate that is

32:21

an important first step.

32:24

However, there's a lot about

32:26

this investigation that is

32:28

unclear at this point, for example, I

32:31

have asked Harvard, do you

32:33

pledge to make

32:35

the findings of this report public?

32:38

Transparency is a key component

32:41

to any, like, robust investigation

32:45

in terms of its credibility and

32:47

potential impact. I

32:49

have asked, like, what is the

32:51

scope that you task generating block

32:53

with investigating? You

32:55

know, I wanna know if it's gonna be super narrow.

32:58

Like, are you are you just looking into hazing?

33:00

Are you just looking into hazing within the

33:02

past year? Are you looking into the

33:04

broader Constellation of

33:06

concerns and allegations that are

33:09

included in our story. Are you going to be

33:11

reaching out to former players? If former

33:13

players reach out to you, are you willing

33:16

to interview them? What sort

33:18

of confidentiality are you going to provide

33:20

potential whistleblower in this situation?

33:23

Which that's what a lot of people

33:25

like, that's the dynamic that people are facing.

33:29

Another big question for me, is

33:31

Katie Stone gonna be required

33:33

to participate in this investigation, is

33:35

athletic director Erin McDermott going

33:37

to be required to participate in

33:40

this investigation. I I think

33:42

those are really key components. We

33:44

have asked Harvard

33:46

to provide clarity on those ends

33:49

and we got a no comment.

33:52

You know, we should say, like, just straight away, but

33:54

before you get any further into this, if

33:56

the name, gender and black, sounds

33:58

familiar to any hockey fans out there.

34:01

They are the firm that

34:03

put together the report on the Chicago Blackhawk's

34:05

internal failures when it came to the

34:09

the alleged abuse by by Brad Eldridge

34:12

against against Kyle Beach. So

34:14

that's that's where you've heard Generin long

34:16

before. And resulted

34:18

in a two million dollar fine -- Yes. -- and,

34:20

you know, people resigning and, you know, real

34:23

there were real consequences. Real consequences. And,

34:26

like, what you said, Katie, it started out as,

34:29

hey, here's the story of the victim, and then it

34:31

became, here's the story of how the organization

34:33

tried to protect itself. And that's

34:35

exactly you're exactly like that, you

34:37

know, the BlackHawk's there is a parallel there.

34:39

You said there was two things you said that

34:42

struck me. Like, one, the

34:45

idea of dividing a team, like, dividing

34:47

a team as a mental

34:49

way to, I guess, gain control over the

34:52

room is is

34:55

a really bizarre way to operate. It does

34:57

it's not even effective. Like, I would like to know where

34:59

at what point do you go? If I can turn any players

35:01

against each other, we're gonna win a ton

35:03

of games. Like, again,

35:06

that's really bizarre to

35:07

me. And then you touched on the alumni. This

35:10

to me, I wanted to read a whole story on the alumni.

35:12

Yep. Can we just talk about the black

35:14

dresses and the sunglasses and

35:16

the weird normal normal person

35:18

stuff?

35:18

Yeah. Yeah.

35:21

So let let me unpack both

35:23

of

35:23

those things. Sorry. There's a lot there.

35:27

Wait. Remind me that what first thing was just

35:28

dividing the team in half so you can try to win games

35:31

as a as a strategy.

35:33

You know, it's interesting because you

35:36

know, one thing let me say this. Like,

35:39

you know, I primarily you

35:41

know, my entire job is

35:43

essentially to cover, like, abuse and misconduct. In

35:45

sports. I'd ideal

35:48

a lot in, like, sexual abuse and,

35:50

like, some really heavy gnarly

35:54

difficult

35:55

stuff, which is not

35:57

to say that I'm desensitized to it because I'm

35:59

not -- Mhmm.

36:00

-- like I can

36:01

But I am. I can confirm

36:03

that you are you are not here. I

36:05

know. But I deal with it a lot. And what

36:07

I can tell you and what Hayley would tell you,

36:10

is that we were blown away by

36:12

both the scope and the scale of the trauma

36:14

that we encountered when reporting this

36:16

story. You know,

36:19

stuff that, like, you know, just hits

36:22

so hard for so many people,

36:25

people grappling with you

36:27

know, like, repressed trauma or

36:30

non repressed trauma, like, over decades.

36:32

Mhmm. And so I

36:34

do, you know, wanna underscore just like

36:37

the depth of this issue.

36:39

Like, you know, I have heard

36:41

people sort of try to, like, you know, undermine

36:43

some of these players concerns

36:46

and, you know, paint them as, like, you know,

36:50

whiny players that didn't get up playing time and didn't

36:52

get their way. Like, there was not, you

36:54

know, we we have now talked to over

36:56

three womens, like, people, players

36:59

within the program, people associated with program.

37:02

There was not one person that,

37:04

like, said Katie Stone was

37:06

too tough. No one's bitching

37:08

about, like, being bag

37:10

skated.

37:10

Right. No one's saying she's yelling too much.

37:13

What what I would say

37:15

impacted players the most.

37:19

You know, for some players like de Hazing

37:21

was really Fanatics. what I would say

37:23

was more universal, was

37:26

the low grade everyday

37:29

incremental death

37:31

by a thousand cuts, microaggressions,

37:36

and toxicity. Mhmm. I

37:38

think that's because it was

37:40

harder to identify. It took

37:42

on a more amorphous shape.

37:44

There's more ambiguity. There's more grit.

37:47

We really tried to show the spectrum

37:50

of, like, escalation in some

37:52

of these behaviors so that people could

37:54

understand, like, it it doesn't just

37:57

start out, like, you get thrown into a

37:59

team and you're just, like, being

38:01

terrorized or tormented. Like, that

38:03

that it happens very gradually and incrementally.

38:06

And then all of a sudden, you're in this, like,

38:09

full blown you know, what some people describe

38:11

as, like, Stanford Prison Experiment where you

38:13

feel like your every move is being

38:15

controlled and monitored in

38:17

every weakness in insecurity that you

38:19

have is being weaponized against you. And

38:21

it is, like, such a destabilizing force

38:24

that you have a fundamental

38:26

loss of, like, your own identity

38:29

and it makes you, like, doubt your own

38:31

it makes you think that this behavior is normal.

38:34

It makes you think that to be a

38:36

part of this team, you must accept this type

38:38

of behavior. So

38:41

I have never seen, like, this element

38:43

of, like, control within

38:46

a team, like, down to the most absurd

38:49

magnesia. And

38:51

then, Craig, I'm super glad that you brought up

38:54

the alumni because I

38:56

was so disturbed by

38:58

the fact that in

39:01

a lot of these hazing

39:04

incidents and initiation nights,

39:07

alumni, like

39:09

professional, working professionals grown

39:12

come back to participate in

39:15

behavior that I think a

39:17

lot of the people that talk to us would describe

39:19

as degrading humiliating

39:22

and dehumanizing. Hazing, that

39:25

to me was

39:28

so profoundly distressing

39:30

and disturbing to learn. And I

39:32

think it tells you a lot

39:34

about the culture of the program

39:37

and what is deemed acceptable and

39:41

how deep some of

39:43

this behavior runs. And

39:49

we're still trying to unpack that.

39:52

You know? And and we really wanted

39:54

to write about the culture of Hazing

39:57

in the context of, you

39:59

know, these

40:02

girls and women are part of a

40:04

program where many of them

40:06

have, you know,

40:08

talked about how deeply

40:11

like distressing and problematic toxic

40:14

it was. And

40:16

so, you know, these factions

40:18

form, players are pitted against each other,

40:21

they're you know, some of the

40:24

players that are in her favor are being deputized

40:26

to, you know, ferry information

40:29

about the latter groups that are not

40:31

in her favor and, like, you know,

40:33

provide morsels of information. And,

40:37

like, a lot of stuff that I felt

40:39

like really like,

40:42

psychological abuse,

40:45

you know, I think what is how a lot of people

40:47

would describe it. So,

40:52

you know, to

40:57

when you're in it, I think

40:59

it's really hard to

41:01

see how potentially

41:04

problematic the behavior is. And we

41:06

had a lot of those conversations with people where

41:09

they'd, like, start talking about it and

41:11

then, like, you know, we'd be, like,

41:13

kinda shocked by what they'd say. And

41:15

then they'd, like, Is that weird?

41:17

And we'd be like, yes. Yes. Exactly.

41:20

That's super weird. I've never heard something

41:22

like that before. So,

41:26

I mean, it just goes

41:28

to show you like that, you know,

41:30

when you're in it, think it's really hard

41:32

to recognize And so what I

41:34

think we have is like a pretty significant

41:37

group of players who have like come through that

41:39

program, who are grappling with

41:42

what they endured in, like,

41:45

forming different relationships with

41:48

their experience there now

41:50

that they have a bit more perspective

41:55

and distance from being in

41:57

it. Mhmm. I

41:59

think you definitely answered part of

42:01

this already, but the naked

42:03

skate specifically. Why

42:06

is that I I

42:08

think that's central to understanding the

42:12

culture here in in the in the story

42:14

you guys wrote about it. In I

42:18

mean, it's you you wrote it. It's your

42:20

work. Why do you why do you think

42:22

that's kinda part of

42:25

the bulwark here? For both the story

42:27

and and also and also the program in

42:29

the environment that she that she's created

42:31

there.

42:33

Sure. Well, one,

42:35

I think it's a really

42:37

important, like, symbolic thing to understand

42:40

that traditions were

42:43

really prioritized in

42:46

this culture and the continuation

42:50

of traditions, like,

42:52

alumni deeply invested

42:54

that the traditions that they helped form

42:57

in, you know, carry out more

43:00

continued. Mhmm. And someone described

43:02

it to me as

43:05

that that was Katie Stone's power --

43:07

Mhmm. -- that she was able to provide

43:10

like a bridge between

43:13

players of decades past to

43:16

players, you know,

43:18

present with

43:20

shared experience. Now, I

43:22

wanna make it clear we have not reported

43:25

on any direct bends

43:28

that she directed any of this behavior

43:30

or, you know, condoned

43:33

this behavior or participated. But

43:37

what I mean is, like, culturally speaking

43:39

in a more global fashion, you

43:42

know, tradition in the,

43:44

like, continuation of tradition was

43:47

a main feature of this

43:49

program. And naked

43:51

skate was one of those things that, you know,

43:53

we have talked to people that played

43:55

twenty five years ago that did

43:57

this, that they're still doing this. And to

43:59

be clear and to be fair, You

44:02

know, there are plenty of people who

44:04

thought it was fun, thought it was innocuous,

44:07

thought it was nine, were

44:09

apathetic towards it, there

44:11

are number of people who felt differently.

44:14

And, you know, there were some people who said,

44:16

I had adoption, not to do it, I sat

44:18

out, But hazing

44:20

actually, you know, talking to some

44:22

hazing experts. And

44:24

they've said, like, Hazing

44:27

is not dictated by whether

44:29

or not the

44:31

upperclassmen also participate. Fanatics

44:34

also not dictated by whether

44:36

or not the participation was voluntary

44:39

because in a team

44:41

dynamic like that, the peer pressure

44:43

is often so significant

44:47

that it serves as like a coercive quality.

44:50

And that, you know, that pair of being ostracized

44:53

and shunned and

44:55

aileen needed from your teammates. Place

44:58

such a mitigating factor

45:00

in participation. And,

45:03

you know, I think one of the things

45:07

that we felt it was important to signify

45:09

also was a level

45:11

of institutional hubris. I mean,

45:15

there so one day after

45:17

the Boston Globe, which did a great job breaking

45:19

the story out into the by the way, Bob

45:22

Hollers and a fantastic investigative writer.

45:25

One day after that story ran and

45:27

by the way, that story did contain allegations

45:29

of hazing in the program. They

45:32

did a naked skin. And,

45:35

you know, one player became very upset.

45:38

The coaching staff was notified and

45:41

they, you know, essentially told the

45:43

team, this is not a sanctioned

45:46

or permissible. Activity.

45:50

So I think it goes to show you that like

45:52

one of these transitions are so firmly

45:54

entrenched and there are so many

45:57

people that feel so deeply invested

45:59

and seeing them continue that I don't think

46:01

there's a ton of introspection about potential

46:03

harm that it may cause And

46:06

I think there is such a level of institutional

46:08

hubris that, you

46:11

know, they're not being forced

46:13

to really reckon with some

46:15

of these things that may have been acceptable

46:19

or not heavily scrutinized in

46:21

decades past, but are no longer considered

46:24

acceptable. And also, like, down the list,

46:26

as far as, you know, institutional hubris

46:29

is concerned, that this is like

46:32

textbook, n

46:34

c double a, this

46:38

is hazing. Like, this is like this is

46:40

definitionally Hazing based

46:42

on based on the NC AA's own

46:44

standards. And that it's -- One

46:46

hundred percent. -- and also it's It's

46:49

-- illegal. -- that's what I'm Like,

46:51

this is this is is an act that's

46:53

illegal in the state, and it's prohibited

46:55

by the n c double a. And there have been

46:57

serious, serious repercussions

47:01

and sanctions placed on teams

47:03

for doing stuff like this. In

47:06

it, it's still -- Yeah. -- you know,

47:08

signed off in a meaningful way

47:10

by people associated with that with

47:13

the program.

47:19

I wanted to pilot something you said,

47:21

Katie, And this is maybe

47:23

just a comment, not a question, but you talked about death

47:25

by a thousand cuts, and we've talked about this.

47:27

But I I appreciated how you

47:29

laid it all out there even in a

47:31

way that you knew would open yourself up

47:33

for criticism, you and Ailey. Like,

47:36

here's the things that the coach did. And

47:38

if you read it, sometimes you're like, oh, she was

47:40

asking what they were eating. Yep. That's that's a coach

47:42

that cares about the player's diet. And she

47:45

She wanted them there ten minutes early. Hey,

47:47

I like that. I want my teen baby prompt. You know what

47:49

I mean? I think it would have been easy to just have been like,

47:51

hey, naked skates and and

47:52

whatever. But then

47:55

you just start to add it up. Like, just

47:57

It's most effective I would be curious, you you know.

47:59

It's the most effective illustration of, like,

48:03

the danger of microaggressions that

48:06

I can remember reading. Because

48:08

those things, like Craig said,

48:12

taken out of context, taken in a

48:14

vacuum Hazing that, you know, she said

48:16

she did thing a or did or did

48:18

thing b, it's

48:20

easy to even

48:23

if you're even if you're acting in good

48:25

faith. If you're not a person who's coming into this,

48:27

like, looking like looking for,

48:29

you know, looking for problems. You

48:31

can see that and think like, okay. Like,

48:34

that sucks, but, you know, you're

48:36

divorced from context, you know, maybe

48:38

maybe to understand it. And that to

48:41

me is of

48:43

this of this story's many

48:45

successes that's at the top

48:47

of the list is is kind of in

48:50

a TikTok almost sort of way, you get

48:52

the sense of, like, the

48:54

erosion of the

48:57

sense of self honestly for

48:59

for a for a lot for a lot these girls.

49:01

So and that's not a question. That is absolutely

49:04

just But but it's

49:06

that's a tough thing to get across I think in

49:08

coverage like this because people hear microaggressions,

49:11

they hear that term, and they automatically

49:13

especially especially like bad faith actors,

49:15

then Snowflakes is is not gonna

49:17

be far behind. Right? Like, that's just that's like the trigger

49:20

word for the for those for those kind of people. tough

49:23

to illustrate

49:25

that effectively sometimes. And I think

49:27

you guys manage that in

49:30

the in the space you took.

49:33

Well, thank you. I mean, that credit

49:35

to our editor, George Stormman, who's,

49:37

like, really in in helping, you know,

49:40

guide us and shepherd us through these stories. I mean,

49:42

that was certainly a central focus for

49:44

him. Like like I said, we we

49:46

we felt like you know, showing

49:49

the more egregious examples were

49:53

was important, but also, like, the Fanatics

49:55

as well in trying to show, like, the spectrum

49:57

of how behavior escalates

50:00

till it this

50:03

environment that is so all

50:05

consuming that,

50:08

you know, for some players, they had

50:10

to you know, III

50:12

womens, I do think that some players had really

50:14

positive experiences. I do. We've

50:18

heard from multiple, and

50:20

I believe them that they had positive experiences.

50:23

And I'm happy for those people that

50:25

did. But there are many people who

50:27

did

50:27

not. And,

50:30

you

50:30

know, I think for a lot of people,

50:34

they just had felt like they had to survive.

50:37

And then think there were some people who did the risk

50:39

calculus in their head and thought,

50:42

I can't survive actually in the context

50:44

of this team and as a result they

50:47

left. And

50:50

which is part of why, you know, we we did

50:52

focus on the attrition and especially

50:54

recently that, you know, there have been number

50:56

of players who walked away and we

50:58

certainly talked to a number of players that felt

51:01

like it was necessary to walk away

51:03

to preserve their own mental

51:06

health that you know,

51:08

multiple players said they had to take a

51:10

year off of school to focus

51:12

on their mental health. I mean, multiple players

51:15

discussed, you know, dealing

51:20

with and grappling with potential

51:24

self harm. And, you

51:26

know, to everyone that thinks

51:28

like that again, that this is

51:31

just a

51:33

few players who can't

51:35

take healthy criticism.

51:38

This is not that.

51:41

It also and and also, like, as far as the hazing

51:43

stuff is concerned, like, there's I

51:46

mean, of course, there are people that are okay with it.

51:48

That's what makes it hazing. That's

51:50

what hazing is. It it creates and

51:52

it creates another group of people that

51:54

you know, it it it warps people's, you

51:58

know, like,

52:00

parameters on that sort of stuff and then

52:02

they do it again and it and it and it it and it continues.

52:05

So one fascinating conversation I had

52:07

with him, he's an expert, which was

52:10

illuminating and but also surprised

52:12

me, which he was like, Oh, yeah. Actually, alumni

52:15

participation and Hazing is quite

52:17

frequent, especially like in the in the Greek

52:20

context. And she's like, you know,

52:24

when especially like in a in a sorority

52:26

or a finals club or a team

52:28

setting like so much of your

52:31

identity is you

52:33

know, entrenched in terms of

52:36

your participation with that group. So,

52:38

like, you know, you feel

52:41

you have had something done to you, and

52:43

then you have probably at

52:46

one point of the cycle, Benadetti standard,

52:48

and then perhaps at one point of this

52:51

cycle, you've been a perpetrator, and

52:53

you feel like it is your duty to

52:55

pass this along. In

52:58

that, you know, whenever

53:01

we hear talk of, like, you know, family

53:04

or, like, team first that,

53:06

you know, that that signifies that

53:10

the the sense of community is

53:12

sort of central to this idea. This idea of

53:14

belonging that these are my people. This

53:17

is my tribe. This is my culture.

53:20

It is it is incumbent

53:22

upon me to make

53:26

sure that you

53:28

know, all these traditions and customs of

53:30

that community continue.

53:34

And so in that context, alumni

53:38

participation perhaps shouldn't

53:40

be particularly surprising.

53:42

Mhmm.

53:43

However, I still find it. And

53:45

like, I mean, I was Godsmacked by it. Howard Bauchner:

53:48

Is

53:48

there anything else about the story that you want

53:50

people to understand that may

53:53

be as it's surfaced and then circulated

53:56

and then talked about or commented on.

53:58

Like, this jumped out and be like, hey, you

54:00

know, I

54:02

want you to realize this. Howard Bauchner:

54:04

I mean, it's I you know, we try to report

54:06

every story with Nuance. And

54:08

so I

54:13

think there are a number of

54:15

people who had really positive experience

54:17

with this program. I think I know

54:19

that there are a number of people who had

54:21

negative experiences with program.

54:24

I think there's a number of people who had

54:26

positive experiences, but

54:28

have the depth of understanding that

54:31

other peoples did not. But

54:35

III guess, you know, there

54:38

one of the hurdles for us in reporting

54:40

the story was people

54:43

are scared of speaking

54:46

about this because they're fear

54:48

of retribution and reprisal.

54:51

And I think to some degree, you know, I don't think

54:53

anyone's scared of, like, Katie

54:55

Stone knocking on their door Hazing

54:57

him up. I think there's some

54:59

people that are, you know, scared of,

55:01

you know, potential, you know, Harvard's

55:04

a powerful institution. And so I think some

55:06

people are scared of that

55:08

potential ramifications. But

55:10

I'd say, by and large, one thing

55:12

that has struck me is

55:14

that I think there's this fear of

55:17

like being excommunicated by

55:20

people that were your friends and

55:23

teammates. I think the

55:25

real fear is that, like, you're

55:27

cut off from a

55:30

lifeline of your community. And

55:32

so I do think we're seeing like real division

55:35

there right now. I think there are some people who

55:37

are really reflecting on their experiences

55:39

and being open minded and listening

55:41

to others. I think there are some that are not. And

55:45

I would just caution

55:47

people, you know, to remember

55:50

that you know, what

55:52

we have encountered here is a great

55:54

deal of harm and

55:56

trauma and suffering. And

56:00

maybe You know, some

56:02

people have said, I think that's a minority. But

56:05

to me, it's like,

56:06

well, how many do you need?

56:08

Yeah. What's How many is okay

56:10

in that scenario? How

56:11

many is okay? If somebody's

56:13

listening and they wanted to reach out to you and say

56:15

and share their story, what's the best way for them to

56:17

get ahold of you? Yeah. Email katie

56:20

at the athletic dot com where you can reach out

56:22

to me on Twitter. My DMs are open.

56:25

Haley has, I think, her contact

56:27

info as well. But, you know,

56:30

we are pursuing follow-up stories on

56:32

this. There's a lot there to

56:34

unpack and we plan to

56:36

keep going

56:37

as long as we need. Well,

56:39

thanks for joining us, Katie. Thanks for your

56:41

great work on the story. All the

56:44

all the work you're doing constantly. It's

56:46

it's I mean, that's just

56:49

an incredible story, Sean. I mean, you

56:51

you and I have talked a lot about we spent an entire

56:53

dinner. At the GM's meetings

56:55

Hazing only about the story and what stood

56:57

out. It's I mean, it's not the end. Until

56:59

it until it's I wish there was, like,

57:02

I wish we had we

57:05

could break down the

57:07

time we spent at that

57:09

goofy restaurant, at that goofy On

57:12

the beauty pump, whatever. Like,

57:14

hammering fish tacos. Like,

57:16

what percentage of that dinner

57:19

between you and I was talking about the work

57:21

that Haley and Katie did. Is

57:23

solid

57:24

ninety? I was gonna say, like, eighty

57:26

eighty or eighty five. Because

57:28

we don't actually wanna talk I talked to the key

57:30

line pie and whether or not we're gonna split one. Do

57:32

we wanna talk to each other about each of his lives?

57:35

What's going on? Family

57:37

stuff. Normal conversation. No,

57:39

maybe. Work. Other

57:41

people's work. Other people's work that is

57:43

much better and much more important than art. So

57:45

yeah. I it's just you

57:48

know, those are those are two people who

57:50

who it's who it's not hard to work

57:51

with. And I I think I think we got it. Nice

57:53

nice nice taste of that. Yeah.

57:57

If you haven't read it, I mean, I hope you've

57:59

as a listener, go go check the story

58:01

out, follow it along. And again, I would encourage

58:03

anybody to reach out to Katie if you have

58:05

-- Mhmm. -- not just Harvard experiences, anything.

58:08

I mean, this is I'm sure

58:10

if it hasn't happened

58:11

already, this is, you know,

58:13

these are stories that need to be told. These

58:16

these are reporters that are speaking truth

58:18

to power and it's important work for us at the

58:20

athletic and -- Yeah. Those two are

58:22

in it and they're in this story for the long haul,

58:25

and there's more coming. And

58:28

if you're interested in it, Or if you like Hayley

58:30

or Katie, I would say to maybe tune in to

58:33

NBC News tonight. Because I'm

58:35

gonna come in there on Tuesday night.

58:39

How about that? How about that? How about that? It's

58:42

cool. More importantly, segment

58:44

three is coming up.

58:50

This is the only good segment on the show.

58:53

Let me jump in the womens. Read

58:56

everything you guys write, whether

58:59

it's positive or negative or

59:01

neutral or what have you. We

59:04

take all of it to heart. We

59:06

love you all individually

59:11

no matter who you are. Before we do

59:13

that though, I we something we wanted

59:15

to get into in the first segment

59:17

that we kind of

59:19

ran ran out of time on because we wanted

59:21

to get you to Katie as quickly as possible because god

59:23

knows that's what's important. The

59:26

Pittsburgh Penguins are in trouble. They

59:29

are officially out of a wildcard

59:31

spot this morning after,

59:35

oh, boy, scoring one goal on

59:37

a goal tender for the auto centers, whose name

59:39

I cannot remember at the moment who is one

59:41

who is start who is starting

59:43

his first his NHL game. That

59:45

kinda coupled with another win by the four of

59:47

the Panthers has

59:49

as Florida in the in the number two spot behind

59:52

behind the Islanders in the Eastern Conference

59:54

Wildcat race. And who called that, by the way?

59:56

Mhmm. John? Who called the Florida Panthers at

59:58

this point. Matthew Kaczuk. Oh,

1:00:00

yes. Flip flop man. I'm so sorry.

1:00:03

Don't worry about it folks. We're gonna be

1:00:05

fine. In mid to

1:00:07

late March. Everyone

1:00:09

relax. Do you

1:00:11

know how good Sergei Bobrovsky has been

1:00:13

over the last over the last little bit. We had to

1:00:15

do we did one of our all thirty two, you

1:00:19

know, where all all NHL, all thirty two things

1:00:21

where we talked to every every b writer,

1:00:23

some some national folks get in. We're,

1:00:26

you know, weighing on on on the

1:00:28

on the topic at hand or the topic of the week.

1:00:31

The one for over the weekend was, which

1:00:34

player has the most to prove down

1:00:37

the stretch for a given team? And

1:00:39

I said Sergei Babrowski, of

1:00:43

course, he always does because that's what happens when

1:00:45

you sign a ten million

1:00:48

dollar ten million dollar contract.

1:00:51

And he's been fantastic. He's been

1:00:54

he's been really good. And It's

1:00:56

after three months of being really bad and kinda

1:00:58

putting the panthers behind the eight ball of being

1:01:02

certainly more average than you than you need

1:01:04

from a ten million dollar guy. So

1:01:06

now he's warmed up. They've always been a good

1:01:08

five on five team. The

1:01:10

penguins are well and

1:01:12

truly in the tank after after this

1:01:15

last road trip that they went on where they lost

1:01:17

twice to the Rangers and now came

1:01:19

home lost to the centers. So they're

1:01:21

in trouble. And

1:01:23

this is the first time really that I've thought

1:01:25

this is the most seriously I've given

1:01:28

consideration to the idea that the playoffs trade,

1:01:30

which is at sixteen years or whatever it is, is

1:01:33

is over him because that's a deeply flawed team.

1:01:35

And all it was ever gonna take was someone

1:01:38

playing well behind them. And right now,

1:01:40

it's Florida Panthers. So that's

1:01:42

something I'll watch. I'm glad it's happening because

1:01:44

we need

1:01:44

it. We need meaning to these games over the next

1:01:46

over the next few weeks and we got it. Yeah. Like, this

1:01:48

is it. Look,

1:01:53

sixteen years, this goes

1:01:55

like, we only know you and I have only

1:01:57

covered an NHL that has Sydney Crosby and

1:01:59

the penguins and the playoffs. Like, that's It's just

1:02:01

the right of way exploring. It's I

1:02:04

know people don't wanna hear this, but it's not great

1:02:07

that this team is this is what's happening to

1:02:09

the penguins. It's just not.

1:02:11

Like Sid Sid needs

1:02:13

to be on that stage. III you know,

1:02:16

I I think maybe it's the best thing for them, maybe

1:02:18

in the short term to miss a year. And

1:02:21

have a wake up call that whatever patches

1:02:23

are being put into place aren't working.

1:02:27

Yeah. But it's a flawed it's a it's

1:02:29

a deeply flawed roster that

1:02:31

shuffled a lot of stuff at the at the

1:02:33

trade deadline and didn't improve in any meaningful

1:02:36

way. Right? When you clear bunch

1:02:38

of cap space, Madden Michael Grandlund, who's been completely

1:02:40

ineffective. Jeff Carter got old. That's a big

1:02:42

thing too. And now they have a bunch of injuries at

1:02:44

defense. So their third pair

1:02:47

last night was Taylor Fedune and Mark

1:02:49

Friedman. Right? Where if you're in a playoff

1:02:52

race, not

1:02:54

a good not a good not

1:02:56

a good ball to be stuck behind. So

1:02:59

fun it'll but like I said, man, it'll be interesting

1:03:01

to watch, but Also,

1:03:04

if you're if you're a payments fan,

1:03:06

I I've how about this? I have

1:03:08

never I've lived here for nearly

1:03:10

all of my life, most of my adult life.

1:03:13

I have never, never

1:03:15

seen the fan base a full

1:03:18

half is angry about the direction of

1:03:20

that team as they are right now. It's

1:03:22

people are pissed. And part of

1:03:24

that's because they're spoiled I don't even I don't

1:03:26

even see it

1:03:27

anymore.

1:03:27

Josh is riling them up. Josh Yowie.

1:03:30

I do. I think Josh and Josh and Josh and I

1:03:32

don't know. Rob Gas and Polycom.

1:03:34

Yeah. Sure. A little bit. But that is also

1:03:36

that's all I'm telling you that's also that

1:03:39

those dudes know the temperature of the fan

1:03:41

base better than anybody, and they can sense how

1:03:43

pissed off these people are. And so can I?

1:03:45

And people aren't like, you just anecdotally conversations

1:03:48

I have with my friends or without my family,

1:03:50

people are mad. And part of it's

1:03:52

because they've been spoiled over the last hour,

1:03:54

many years, which is just part of the part of the way

1:03:57

that it goes. But also there is there should be legitimate

1:03:59

concern for the direction of this franchise over

1:04:01

the next couple years. In the last couple years of

1:04:03

Sydney Crosby, Genny Malkin, and

1:04:05

Crystal Tang's prime, because it

1:04:07

doesn't seem like they have

1:04:08

any. So

1:04:11

You know who did make a significant move, but to get

1:04:13

better at the trade deadline or near the trade deadline,

1:04:15

the New York

1:04:16

Islanders? And everyone was

1:04:18

like, why what are they doing? They're

1:04:20

gonna get in.

1:04:22

Yeah. I'd pick them I'd

1:04:24

pick them over the over the penguins at

1:04:26

this point for sure. I would too.

1:04:28

Alright. Alright. Let's get to the questions. I feel like we're

1:04:30

doing.

1:04:33

Patrick g, I just wanted to say to Patrick

1:04:35

g, personally. Welcome to the womens

1:04:37

section

1:04:37

that you I've got eighteen

1:04:39

months of looking. Eighteen months

1:04:41

of searching.

1:04:43

Searching and finally found the

1:04:45

thread. So, good job, Patrick. Patrick

1:04:50

also says it's a shame we can't get Craig on here

1:04:52

consistently. I'll take low energy Craig

1:04:54

every week if it means he shows up for Tuesdays

1:04:57

each week. For each month. Shout out to

1:04:59

producer, Jeff, of course, the the

1:05:02

brains behind. Craig, you're gonna write

1:05:04

another column on what book folks are Hazing, I

1:05:06

loved that, sir. I was just we were just talking about that with somebody

1:05:08

the other day. No.

1:05:11

To answer the question, because

1:05:13

I don't write anymore. Mhmm. But -- Fingers

1:05:16

crossed. -- fingers crossed as we know. But that that was a fun

1:05:19

thing. I might link that out.

1:05:21

Fundament went out to me. That's happening multiple times

1:05:23

over last few weeks, by the way. It's like, I've had an idea

1:05:25

and been like that Craig did

1:05:26

that, like, four years ago. The

1:05:28

problem with that story was I I just said,

1:05:30

hey, let let me get hundred book recommendations

1:05:33

from people in hockey. Just sounded like a good number.

1:05:35

I like to write things in headlines

1:05:36

oftentimes. And that's how -- Yeah. -- I

1:05:38

mean, like, that I can I can promote that? That's you

1:05:40

know, it was hard, like, a mean and that's what to do.

1:05:43

A hundred a hundred bucks.

1:05:45

Like, that's a lot of people. To go to

1:05:47

in hockey. I should've just said

1:05:49

fifty. It would've been so much easier and not

1:05:51

-- Yeah. -- any difference. Uneven number. That's

1:05:53

one of the that's one of the buzz. That's kinda

1:05:56

that's kinda hit. You should have gone, like, fifty one

1:05:58

or something?

1:06:01

Also Michael d, we're a hit on the

1:06:03

on the YouTube's. We're not Michael

1:06:05

d writes, first time watching the

1:06:08

Tuesday boys in the athletic package on YouTube,

1:06:11

the difference between Craig and Sean is amazing.

1:06:13

Craig is more stone faced than an Easter Island

1:06:15

statue when Peter

1:06:16

talks. Meanwhile, Sean is a bundle

1:06:19

of endless energy.

1:06:21

This is Craig's like paranoid. I'm

1:06:24

so scared to leave the little skinny.

1:06:26

You should see well, the Katie one, it's probably I'm

1:06:28

like

1:06:29

I'm just frozen in time. That's

1:06:31

all I'm thinking about. Don't leave the split

1:06:34

screen. Craig is Craig is a coward.

1:06:36

Craig is a coward, and I have impulse control

1:06:39

problems.

1:06:40

That's it. You

1:06:41

just disappear. Like, I was gonna be generous to

1:06:43

the person in screen three. It's

1:06:45

a better experience when you're actually having a conversation

1:06:48

than it is to, like, than to converse to someone

1:06:50

who's

1:06:52

sitting up straight. Like, you know

1:06:54

You think that may appear on concerns? With how

1:06:57

Yeah. I do. He told me

1:06:59

afterwards.

1:07:03

There's a few comments about our we wanted

1:07:06

we made call to the NHL

1:07:08

to change the combine,

1:07:10

work in some actual hockey events, Ryan

1:07:14

w said, I'll fall on

1:07:16

the no thanks side of a combine style of the

1:07:18

NHL. I think the NFL version

1:07:20

is pretty gross. And let's make these children

1:07:23

run and jump around for free and pretend

1:07:25

like it matters more than game footage

1:07:27

while we smooths corporate and media sponsors

1:07:30

kind of

1:07:30

way. Would you wanna respond

1:07:32

to that? To Ryan w?

1:07:35

Ryan, that was a long comment and I kinda zoned

1:07:37

out for part of it.

1:07:39

Oh, wow. Oh, jeez. No. I'm just

1:07:41

I'm just kidding. I does he disagrees with

1:07:43

you? I'm joking. I

1:07:45

I think on that level,

1:07:47

yeah, sure. Like, I think I think do I think the

1:07:49

NFL combine is stupid?

1:07:52

Yeah. Sure. But a lot of

1:07:54

the work of

1:07:56

building buzz around a league

1:07:59

and increase and increasing and, you know,

1:08:01

building attention and whatever. A lot of that is

1:08:03

stupid work. So we can sit here

1:08:05

and laugh about, you know, whatever,

1:08:08

the n h the NFL schedule release

1:08:10

dominating a week of the

1:08:12

news cycle every every summer,

1:08:15

but it works. It

1:08:18

like, do I, like, do I do I

1:08:20

personally care whether whether,

1:08:22

you know, the NHL does a good job of marketing

1:08:25

itself? No. I don't. It doesn't matter

1:08:27

to me. Like, I'm not I'm not an NHL. Like,

1:08:29

I'm not personally hurt that DHL

1:08:31

signed a deal with fanatics and I think it's stupid.

1:08:34

Like, I'm not hurt on their behalf. Right? I think

1:08:36

that think they're I think it underserves fans

1:08:38

I think I think fans miss out on it.

1:08:41

I don't know that so I so I kind of apply

1:08:43

that same logic, I suppose, to

1:08:46

the combine. Because whether you think it's

1:08:48

stupid or not, whether you think the NFL combine

1:08:50

is stupid, people love watching

1:08:53

it. So I'm not trying to account for my

1:08:55

taste. I'm trying to like pull it

1:08:57

out and say that -- Mhmm. --

1:08:59

there's something that people it

1:09:01

might not be like cup of tea to sit there

1:09:03

and watch you know,

1:09:05

Elijah Clancy do the shuttle run or

1:09:07

whatever. It's the NFL it's

1:09:09

the NFL combine, but a lot of people enjoyed

1:09:12

it. And it and it generates a lot of news.

1:09:14

And people care about it. So, yeah, I I, like,

1:09:17

I can see past my own sort of interests,

1:09:19

I think, on that one. But I get it. I get

1:09:21

I get why I get why people don't like it. Like,

1:09:24

of course, but more people like it than

1:09:26

don't, and that's the point. And

1:09:29

I think it draws attention to the people

1:09:31

being drafted, the players being drafted. think that's

1:09:33

good. I think I think it's fun when fans have

1:09:36

opinion on who the team

1:09:37

takes. Totally NHL. Like, we're pretty

1:09:39

informed, and you get stuck getting in around two or

1:09:41

whatever. And it's like, I don't feel that's true

1:09:43

with all fans feeling that strongly besides

1:09:45

the diehard. If you pay any amount of attention

1:09:47

to the NFL think of all the players, like,

1:09:49

even in this past year who

1:09:52

a few weeks ago that you were introduced

1:09:54

to via the via the NFL combat. And do you

1:09:56

think that many people We're watching

1:09:59

Florida football games last year and realize

1:10:01

that Anthony Richardson is a physical marvel

1:10:03

who who should be taken the top

1:10:06

half of the first round of any draft he's in?

1:10:08

No. The the kid from Ohio

1:10:10

State, who's the the offensive tackle,

1:10:12

who's on. Ten feet long or

1:10:14

whatever. People don't know who that is. But

1:10:16

now whenever those guys do get

1:10:18

drafted, like, there's

1:10:20

gonna be a buzz around the selection

1:10:23

on the day that it womens. And

1:10:25

b, people whose fan whose, you know,

1:10:28

whose fans, you know, god.

1:10:30

That's horrible. And who's what now?

1:10:32

And b. B. What? B. B. What? B. What? B. B. What? B. What?

1:10:39

Fans of the teams who actually take these guys

1:10:41

are gonna be are are gonna be immediately

1:10:43

familiar with with their teams for a shot pick.

1:10:46

That's not a bad thing. As corny

1:10:48

-- I think it's good. -- as I think it is

1:10:51

to sit there and obsess over, you

1:10:53

know, vertical leaps and hand sizes

1:10:55

and whatever else. Like,

1:10:58

that's why we do this. Like, it's like

1:11:00

it's fun for a lot of people, and

1:11:03

that's reason enough to do

1:11:04

it. Anyway

1:11:07

And addicts could put out, like, a card set of

1:11:09

all the draft combine winners and

1:11:11

losers and buy them and trade

1:11:12

them.

1:11:13

Fill them, but I want it to special NFL,

1:11:15

NHL. Draft campaign head combat

1:11:17

net, struggling today. Philip

1:11:19

ours wants to trade Sean for

1:11:22

Shana. Yeah. But based on Shana's appearance.

1:11:24

And then later on in the comments, I think it's

1:11:26

somebody else's -- Hey. -- help me with trade Craig.

1:11:28

Chris Shea wanted to trade me for and future,

1:11:31

so so at least you gotta throw in a little

1:11:33

something else. Because sheena, I think we all can

1:11:35

agree. Sheena should be a

1:11:36

regular. It impacts to states.

1:11:39

Both of us for her. Have a great day. That's

1:11:41

the best and the best thing. Yeah. It was

1:11:43

was all discussed. Kevin

1:11:45

T. Can we have more

1:11:47

SG saying the word Cismic? Is

1:11:49

that Am I saying that wrong? Seismic. Seismic?

1:11:52

Seismic. Seismic. I don't see

1:11:54

Seismic. said Seismic.

1:11:56

I think that might be a regional thing. If

1:12:00

you don't mind, you can't just

1:12:01

say, ten you misheard out something because I

1:12:03

didn't reach. Okay. Shot, lead

1:12:05

catheter or whatever you were trying to Lancaster.

1:12:08

Lancaster. Lancaster. That's what people

1:12:10

call it. That's what people call it. That's a piece of the thing. Yo.

1:12:13

Lancaster have stand up.

1:12:15

Reach out. That's all that's all

1:12:17

they said. Don't I might see

1:12:19

mister announcing season. Announce things. You

1:12:23

are.

1:12:24

Take another question. I'm gonna I'm gonna look

1:12:26

into this. Sean,

1:12:28

you're Kevin t Already he Kevin

1:12:31

t he phonetically spelled it out for you. Kevin

1:12:33

I trust you. Also, it just

1:12:35

means you read a lot, Sean, and you don't need a

1:12:37

lot. That's insane. You're learning it. You're learning

1:12:39

the language through reading. So it's when it's when

1:12:42

it's pronounced my entire life I've when

1:12:44

I've mispronounced the word. I get it.

1:12:47

Yeah. I don't think there's an alternate pronunciation here.

1:12:49

That's just me making a mistake. There's Fair enough.

1:12:52

There's there's not bunch of regional

1:12:54

pronunciations.

1:12:56

Southwestern PA pronunciation of

1:12:58

seismic. Of

1:13:01

all the words. Jesse W

1:13:03

thinks the Tuesday boys should just

1:13:05

do the bezant of the week. Oh, Monday does their

1:13:07

Jack Adams win over the week because

1:13:10

all that matters as goalies as we know and we

1:13:12

talked about at length. Mhmm. Allison

1:13:16

h rates When you make your US

1:13:18

versus Canada teams, we're gonna do that next

1:13:20

time Pierre comes on, you need a neutral

1:13:22

third party to decide the winner. You know,

1:13:24

like a Swedish Swedish Swedish

1:13:27

Swedish

1:13:28

Swedish or Finnish person.

1:13:29

Swedish. Swinefish. It's a

1:13:31

Someone is Equifax Swedish

1:13:33

Finnish -- Yeah. -- has this podcast. We're

1:13:35

just we're, like, imminently. I couldn't.

1:13:39

Yeah. I'd be done with that. I think

1:13:41

we could get a get a sweet, get

1:13:43

a sweet involved. Also,

1:13:47

to question how do you see. How does the Wednesday

1:13:49

show not to the president of the week or whatever? It's

1:13:52

just just it's just it's the goal with the Holy Frick.

1:13:55

A real glowy sicko. I believe

1:13:59

that's right. Question

1:14:03

for the future. Real year two thousand

1:14:05

vibes in the year two thousand. You're

1:14:12

gonna go high with the second version. You're gonna get

1:14:15

two thousand.

1:14:18

Which team should be the most disappointed about

1:14:21

making the playoffs as their shot at the

1:14:23

crown now in the future is drastically less

1:14:25

than what it was on trade deadline

1:14:27

day. Think Nashville sneaking in

1:14:29

last year to get steam rolled by the abs

1:14:31

because they have the goalie.

1:14:33

They might

1:14:34

be be Nashville. I don't think it's

1:14:36

out of the out of the question, then

1:14:39

the Nashville does it again. They're

1:14:41

like all of a sudden kinda relevant

1:14:44

but the good the good part for them is that they sold

1:14:46

whatever is that they sold whatever they could. Yeah. They're

1:14:49

I mean, they woke up the day.

1:14:51

They woke up my god. I'm a

1:14:53

disaster today. They woke up

1:14:55

today five points outside

1:14:57

of a playoff spot, but with three

1:14:59

games in hand on America's team, on

1:15:01

America's can on America's Canadian team, they want

1:15:03

to pick jots. Which, like,

1:15:06

it's doable. It's not it's not

1:15:08

likely, but it's

1:15:09

possible. So I'm

1:15:11

going with Nashville again. Yeah.

1:15:13

Yeah. I think it is Nashville. I rented

1:15:15

a David Poll at the GM's, and we

1:15:17

were just chatting and he was

1:15:19

remarking, you know, like, just how busy still

1:15:21

is post deadline. And he's like, you know, we're in this playoff

1:15:23

race. I'm like, how are you? And then I looked.

1:15:26

He's right. Dude, I came back from

1:15:28

Florida. I mean, Tom, flew

1:15:30

back and was, you know, back

1:15:32

really, really late on Wednesday night woke up. Thursday

1:15:34

is always a long day. They got got

1:15:36

to record and got to do power ranking and stuff. It's

1:15:38

like the the long day. Of

1:15:41

the week for me. I hadn't really

1:15:43

paid a ton of attention to the games in

1:15:45

for the for the previous few days because of

1:15:48

the GM meeting stuff. Me and

1:15:50

Dom sit down and do power rankings. And he said

1:15:52

something like about how, you know,

1:15:54

basically, the prides, like, have a chance. And I I did

1:15:56

I did the same thing. And I was like, are you? What's

1:15:59

we what time out. What happened?

1:16:01

Yeah. It it's partially because the jets have fallen

1:16:03

apart, but whatever.

1:16:06

But

1:16:06

I think you I mean, they weren't

1:16:09

gonna win it anyways. So that's like the best best

1:16:11

of both worlds. You got

1:16:12

your Totally.

1:16:12

You got your futures at the deadline. You get your

1:16:14

playoff gate. And then get steam rolls

1:16:16

out. Well, there's no player that they could they

1:16:18

could could have conceivably moved at the

1:16:20

deadline that they held on to to their detriment.

1:16:23

Right? Like, if they really wanna hit

1:16:25

the red button and trade UC

1:16:28

Saros or Womens here. Whatever.

1:16:30

If that happens, any

1:16:33

deal of that magnitude almost always is

1:16:35

a summer deal anyway. Like, they're not gonna

1:16:37

have less value, you know,

1:16:39

in June than they do than they do today.

1:16:41

So, yeah. Hold off. You you

1:16:44

know, totally totally detonate it

1:16:46

down the road. That's fine. But they did the work that

1:16:48

they needed to do. If only in

1:16:50

the form of the dinner dinner deal. Holy

1:16:52

cow.

1:16:54

Great deal. Alright.

1:16:57

This is already going really long. So I think we can

1:16:59

end with this one unless you see something. there's a lot

1:17:01

of comments, and we appreciate everybody stepping

1:17:03

up. And even the people that were like,

1:17:06

disappointed in our lack of hockey analysis.

1:17:08

I'm looking at you, Thomas F, didn't like that.

1:17:10

We didn't dive in deep in the hockey analysis in

1:17:12

last week's episode. We appreciate everyone who

1:17:14

left the womens. Really good questions. Michael

1:17:17

Pee had

1:17:19

to pause the show to ask Is

1:17:21

Vlad Terasinko really a hall of famer?

1:17:23

Honestly, he had not considered this since his early

1:17:26

career hype. And that's in reference

1:17:28

to we were talking about, it really doesn't

1:17:30

matter what you do with the trade deadline because your your

1:17:32

chances winning a Stanley Cup isn't increase

1:17:34

that month much. And I kinda casually said

1:17:36

the Rangers went out and got two Hall of Famer's.

1:17:39

And Tara Sanco and Patrick

1:17:40

Kane. I think it was it was a little a little bit

1:17:43

hyperbolic to prove a point, but

1:17:45

it's Vlad Tara Sanco at Haemor, Sean.

1:17:49

Did I

1:17:50

No. But I think he's right below the line.

1:17:52

I think at this point, probably

1:17:54

not he just he just lost too many prime

1:17:57

years to to their shoulder issues and whatever.

1:17:59

I think he's like I think he's like just under

1:18:01

to me. But he's

1:18:04

one of those guys. If I were in the room

1:18:06

and and you and I was in there with

1:18:09

whatever. If it's twenty years

1:18:11

down the line and Jeremy Rutherford is making

1:18:13

making case of Vladimir Terresenko in a in

1:18:15

a hall of fame, you know, boardroom,

1:18:18

I could probably be swayed. Like, I I think

1:18:20

I think I'm I think I'm I'm am amenable

1:18:23

on it. Like, I feel like he's right

1:18:25

below the line, but it's not out of the realm

1:18:27

of possibility that a, he puts together couple

1:18:29

more good years to bolster the wrap

1:18:31

and b

1:18:32

that, you know, that couldn't be pushed

1:18:35

into the pro camp there. Yeah.

1:18:38

I I probably I I think he's I don't

1:18:40

think he is. So I

1:18:42

I would say I probably

1:18:44

misspoke or I was just trying to make a point. But

1:18:47

Like, you know, many types of hair He's certainly

1:18:49

what happens. Like, I we just the white people. No.

1:18:52

I I think I should be held accountable. But

1:18:54

he's not he he has no top ten finishes

1:18:56

in hairboat and not that that matters. But, look, you

1:18:58

don't you want your hall of famers to

1:19:00

be the best of their era and

1:19:02

and maybe have a couple years where they were

1:19:05

unquestionably the best of their position or whatever.

1:19:07

mean, at percentile fame, maybe that's higher

1:19:09

standard than the percentile fame currently

1:19:12

has because there's certainly players that I

1:19:14

don't think

1:19:14

that. But in my hall of fame, I don't

1:19:16

think Tarasinko is I think if you it's

1:19:18

like what I put Vladimir Tarasinko into

1:19:21

my personal hall of fame. No. But

1:19:24

there are a lot of guys gotten

1:19:26

in the Akyol fame. That's a big tent

1:19:28

hall at this point. Unless you're

1:19:31

a gold vendor, and then you're screwed. I

1:19:34

don't know. I think I don't think I don't think I don't think he gets in.

1:19:36

I don't think I would put him in, but I I it's also

1:19:38

not like some I don't think it's

1:19:40

like a

1:19:40

farceicle, you know, claim to make either.

1:19:45

He was great when the blues won their crop.

1:19:47

Just a tang's hit and everything.

1:19:50

I think that's what it was. Shot every game.

1:19:52

So that like, I have that. I picture Tarashenko

1:19:55

in that run. Peak Peak Terresenko was

1:19:57

so good. So good. It was just short.

1:19:59

Yeah. That's just, like, tough

1:20:03

tough luck.

1:20:06

We're done. Rob Pizzo, Mike. We're

1:20:08

done. I was already going into the promos. Rob Pizzo,

1:20:10

Microsoft, and Jesse Granger. Welcome, Matt Boldy.

1:20:13

Minutes of a while to the Wednesday roundtable.

1:20:16

Also, you mentioned YouTube,

1:20:19

don't forget to subscribe to the athletic hockey

1:20:21

show on YouTube. Youtube dot

1:20:23

com slash at the athletic hockey

1:20:25

show you can watch. How much Sean

1:20:27

likes to move

1:20:28

around. I used to, I corrected.

1:20:30

I overcorrected some might say. That's

1:20:34

how you sit all the time now. It's it's

1:20:36

sucks. At dinner. At dinner. At

1:20:38

dinner. It's your napkins

1:20:39

too. Hey. Let's go to the studio. Yeah. Like you're gonna

1:20:41

like you're gonna like you're gonna braze a massage. Hey.

1:20:47

Great guests next week. The

1:20:49

recently retired Brianna Decker is gonna join

1:20:51

us. And that's excited about that

1:20:53

one. Spend

1:20:56

happening in your shot. Great to great to hang out

1:20:58

with you last week. C

1:21:00

plus. Dang it

1:21:02

out. Who's

1:21:04

great? That's okay. This

1:21:07

tacos are good.