Podchaser Logo
Home
Old Cahawba

Old Cahawba

Released Tuesday, 30th April 2024
Good episode? Give it some love!
Old Cahawba

Old Cahawba

Old Cahawba

Old Cahawba

Tuesday, 30th April 2024
Good episode? Give it some love!
Rate Episode

Episode Transcript

Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.

Use Ctrl + F to search

0:01

Cahaba is a town in the center of

0:03

the state of Alabama. Today, it's

0:05

a quiet, serene place. But

0:07

in Cahaba's heyday, it had

0:10

three distinct eras. In

0:13

the early 1820s, it became the first

0:15

state capital of Alabama, very Wild West-like,

0:17

but it was a place with promise

0:19

in the middle of wilderness. In

0:21

the 1850s, it caught a second wind. It

0:23

was one of the wealthiest cities in the

0:25

state and one of the wealthiest counties in

0:27

the country. After the Civil War,

0:29

in the late 1860s, it

0:31

was a hub for the formerly enslaved, a place

0:34

where black people could finally enjoy the fruits

0:36

of their labor. But

0:38

today, Cahaba is completely

0:40

deserted, and it's been that way for a

0:42

while. Most towns go

0:45

undeveloped and they destroy what was there before.

0:47

Here are the footprints of all those buildings and

0:50

all those lives are still there. This

0:53

is Linda Derry. She's the site director

0:55

at the Old Cahaba Archaeological Park. After

0:57

almost 40 years of working there, Linda still

1:00

has a reverence for the scenery that Old

1:02

Cahaba has to offer. The

1:04

southern landscape, especially in Alabama, we have this

1:07

sort of relic. You

1:09

know, if you look

1:11

closely, you can see pieces of the

1:13

past, like runes of old tenant

1:16

farmer's shocks or, oh

1:19

my gosh, here every spring, the

1:22

roses and the daffodils that these

1:24

people brought from the East Coast

1:26

here to make their yards

1:29

beautiful, they bloom again. These

1:31

things are planted originally by people that are

1:33

long dead by every spring. We

1:36

see, it gives me chills just thinking about it.

1:39

So if you just open your eyes to it, you

1:42

can hear those dead people talking to you

1:45

through these messages embedded in

1:47

the landscape. My

1:50

name is Baudelaire and this is Atlas

1:52

Obscura, a celebration of the world's strange,

1:54

incredible and wondrous places. Today, we go

1:57

to Cahaba, Alabama, to the Old Cahaba

1:59

Archaeological Park. Park to visit

2:01

Alabama's most famous ghost town and we

2:03

hear how it was once the center

2:05

of life in Alabama until suddenly it

2:08

wasn't. More after

2:11

this. When

2:24

was the last time I took a road

2:26

trip? How many national parks could I hit

2:28

in two weeks? What about hotels? Wait,

2:31

hey Erica, how much am I spending on

2:33

travel? When your questions about life

2:35

turn into questions about money, there's Erica, the virtual

2:37

financial assistant to help you spend, save, and plan

2:39

smarter. Only from Bank of America. What would you

2:41

like the power to do? Erica is only available

2:43

in the English language. You must download the latest

2:45

version of the mobile banking app. Only available on

2:47

select mobile devices. Your chat may be recorded and

2:49

monitored for quality assurance. Message and data rates and

2:51

additional terms may apply. Bank of America and a

2:53

member FDIC. If

2:55

you're looking for a place where

2:57

the wide open skies and the

2:59

towering mountains inspire you to

3:01

find an untapped part of yourself, you

3:04

might want to take a trip to Wyoming. It's

3:07

a place where bold curious spirits forge

3:09

their own way on all types of

3:11

adventures. There is

3:13

no shortage of iconic expansive

3:15

landscapes out there. You can

3:17

discover breathtaking hikes, stunning state

3:19

parks, authentic Western culture,

3:22

and other historic sites along

3:24

with the tales of famous outlaws

3:26

like Butch Cassidy and pioneers like

3:28

Buffalo Bill Cody. The

3:30

truth lies West. Discover

3:33

yours at Travel Wyoming dot com.

3:40

Over the past hundred years, Cahaba has

3:43

become a place shrouded in myth. There's

3:46

a lot of myths about this

3:48

place that are completely wrong. Things

3:51

they read in their fourth grade textbook when

3:53

they're little that you know

3:55

you just wonder how they got there. One

3:57

of those myths is how the town got its name. starts

4:00

with the state of Alabama's first governor,

4:02

William Bibb. Here's

4:05

how it goes. Governor

4:07

Bibb came to Cahaba to give us

4:09

the place for our capital, and there

4:11

were Native Americans there, and they

4:13

were going, Cahaba, Cahaba, Cahaba, which

4:15

means water above, and they were trying to

4:17

warn him away. It's just

4:19

silly. None of that had ever happened. Native people

4:21

had lived here for like 9,000 years. It was

4:23

a good place for them to live. In

4:26

fact, Cahaba doesn't mean water above. Cahaba

4:29

means cane brick, a tall grass that's a

4:31

relative of bamboo. The town of

4:33

Cahaba was actually named after the Cahaba River,

4:35

and at the time, the river was lined

4:37

with cane brick. Today, there isn't

4:40

any cane brick in Cahaba. There's

4:42

just ruins of its heyday. You'll

4:44

see columns from the

4:47

mansion's gone, but the column in the basement is

4:49

still there. You'll see ruins

4:51

of old warehouses, and

4:53

the cemeteries are incredible because you can read

4:56

the inscriptions and learn what they wanted you to know

4:58

about their loved ones. The

5:01

reason Cahaba was chosen as the capital was

5:03

because Governor Bibb had been given a free

5:05

square mile of land there before any town

5:07

infrastructure was built. He figured

5:09

if it were the capital, then the plots of

5:11

land he would sell from that square mile would

5:14

increase drastically in value, and it worked.

5:16

The money from the sale of those plots

5:18

of land then became the foundation for the

5:20

state of Alabama's treasury. At

5:22

that time, folks were moving west to this

5:24

brand new state called Alabama, and what better

5:26

place to live than its capital? Like

5:29

any big city, there was a lot of action. If

5:32

you came in 1820, there

5:34

would be a brick state house, then there'd

5:37

be a bunch of log cabins. It was very

5:39

much, I'd say, more like gun smoke, western,

5:42

than like Gone with the Wind. In

5:44

fact, the editors said, women

5:46

and children should stay home at night because of

5:48

all the gunplay in the streets. It

5:50

was really rough and tumble. But

5:52

Cahaba wouldn't be the capital for very long,

5:55

and this leads to another myth. This

5:57

one goes that the state capital was only moved because

5:59

of a massive flood that supposedly

6:01

hit Caba in 1825. Well when

6:03

you start doing the research

6:07

1825 was a drought year. There

6:10

was no flood. Why the myths?

6:12

Like what what what purpose do

6:15

they serve rather than the truth I guess?

6:18

Well you know Christians

6:20

love a big flood story don't they? So

6:22

it's something they can relate

6:26

to. I should mention that

6:28

Alabama has moved its capital four times

6:30

before it landed on its current capital

6:32

Montgomery but the real story behind this

6:34

first move was all about politics.

6:37

See people in North Alabama resented that Governor

6:39

Bibb made Caba the capital and when Bibb

6:41

died there was no one else around to

6:43

stick up for Caba. So the people took

6:45

a vote in 1825 and it was settled.

6:49

The capital would move. They

6:51

didn't feel that being a capital was

6:53

enough incentive to make a town grow.

6:55

So it had only been from 1819 to 1825. It's

6:59

not very much time and

7:01

in the beginning the steamboats weren't

7:04

even running up the river. So that's

7:07

the reason they gave for moving but

7:09

ha ha the town

7:12

went on and became one of the

7:14

wealthiest towns. During

7:16

the mid-1800s an area of Central

7:18

Alabama was one of the wealthiest and

7:21

most politically powerful regions in the United

7:23

States. This region was called the Black

7:25

Belt named for the fertile black soil

7:27

that ran through it and Caba

7:29

happened to be situated right smack in

7:31

the middle of the Black Belt. Caba

7:33

was now in its second phase. No

7:35

more log cabins or old western-style living.

7:37

At this point in 1860

7:40

Caba had the fourth highest per capita wealth

7:42

in the entire country. Right

7:45

before the Civil War. So

7:47

that was its peak. So

7:50

there were probably over

7:52

3,000 people living here at that time. And 64% of

7:54

that population was African-American. for

8:00

huge mansions and

8:02

finds stores and churches and schools

8:05

and um so

8:08

it would have been quite something but

8:11

it also would depend who you were like

8:13

vine street was the main downtown street so

8:15

if you were a white planner you would

8:17

know that quite well but the

8:20

next street over was um were

8:22

all the brackenest

8:24

shops and the slave exchange and

8:26

so if you were enslaved person that was the

8:28

center of your world but

8:31

um so you would get a very different

8:33

view of it but cahaba was always

8:35

majority black but

8:37

then in 1861 the civil war

8:39

began the civil

8:42

war was a turning point in cahaba's history for

8:44

a few reasons for the first reason

8:46

we have to go back to a few years

8:48

before the war started in 1858 during

8:51

cahaba's days of bringing in money from the sale

8:53

of cotton the town was building

8:55

a railroad makes sense right cotton is

8:57

king so let's get a railroad stop

8:59

well during the war the confederacy had

9:02

to focus on wartime production and nearby

9:04

selma was making cannons and other weapons

9:06

that were more of an immediate need

9:09

so the confederate army tore up the

9:11

entire railroad that was almost done in

9:13

cahaba to finish a railroad line in

9:15

and out of selma a

9:17

railroad warehouse in cahaba had just finished

9:19

and it was turned into a prison

9:21

for captured union soldiers another

9:26

way the war changed cahaba was in the

9:28

lives lost many

9:30

of the white men didn't come back from the

9:32

war the majority of them died defending

9:35

richman in virginia

9:37

by the time the war was over old

9:39

cahaba looked completely different this town that used

9:41

to be bustling from all this money from

9:43

the sale of cotton and enslaved people had

9:46

lost its free workforce cahaba

9:48

was left as a remnant of the old south

9:50

of the old plantation south the

9:53

delma had built an industry

9:55

during the war to build armament

9:58

for the confederates So

10:00

they had industry and they had

10:03

immigrants. And so they were new

10:05

South, probably old South. After

10:12

the Civil War came Reconstruction, an

10:14

era of Black self-determination as well

10:17

as political and economic success. With

10:21

Reconstruction came a new era for

10:23

Cahaba, its third phase, one

10:26

where the Black residents would be able to

10:28

enjoy the town's success. It was their community

10:30

and they built their own schools and their

10:32

own churches. Cahaba was now a

10:34

haven for the newly free Black folks. From

10:37

Selma, the new strip is called

10:39

Cahaba the NECA of the Radical

10:41

Republican Party. And that wasn't met

10:43

as a compliment. Because

10:45

all these newly emancipated people voted

10:47

Republican because Swinkin was Republican.

10:52

Self-determination led to some pretty impressive stories from the

10:54

Black population of Cahaba. Stories like

10:56

Sarah Duncan. Sarah Duncan was an

10:58

activist born in post-war Cahaba that would tour

11:00

the South and speak about not just the

11:02

rights of Black people, but the rights of

11:04

women. She's what they call

11:06

the race woman. She's the uplifting race. She

11:10

said women were the last creation of God

11:12

and therefore the most perfect. Another

11:15

story is that of Jeremiah Harrelson, a

11:18

self-educated formerly enslaved man from Georgia that

11:20

went on to represent Cahaba and the

11:22

Alabama House of Representatives, the Alabama Senate

11:25

and the U.S. House of Representatives. He

11:28

was also considered one of the great orators of his

11:30

time. Frederick Douglass heard Harrelson

11:32

speak in 1872 and called him

11:35

one of the most amusing, ready,

11:37

witted and gifted debaters. And

11:39

there was also the story of Ezekiel Arthur. Born

11:42

into slavery in Arkansas, after emancipation,

11:44

Ezekiel traveled state to state to find

11:46

his sister and mother. After

11:49

reuniting with them, he moved to Cahaba. There

11:52

he became a successful farmer and landowner,

11:54

growing corn, cotton and sugar cane that

11:56

he sold within Cahaba and to cafes

11:59

in New York. by towns. But

12:01

as Reconstruction came to an end, so did

12:03

Cahaba's time as a black haven. With no

12:05

federal troops protecting the rights of black people

12:08

in the South, racist groups were

12:10

free to terrorize places like Cahaba. So

12:15

it then became, yeah, dangerous

12:17

for people that were outspoken. Most of

12:19

the tenant farmers disappeared. You know, they

12:22

went to Detroit or Chicago or someplace.

12:25

At that point, Cahaba's desertion began. First,

12:27

it was the people, then

12:29

it was the buildings. You see, during

12:32

the Civil War, nearby Selma was damaged

12:34

pretty badly. And the people

12:36

of Selma decided it'd be cheaper to

12:38

salvage Cahaba's building materials rather than bringing

12:41

in brand new materials. And

12:43

there's articles in Selma's paper saying, here

12:46

comes another frame of the house from Cahaba.

12:48

If they continue, Cahaba will be out of business

12:51

shortly. And then a decade or more later, they

12:53

come and take down the brooks and reuse the

12:55

brooks. By the

12:57

1930s, not much was left of Cahaba.

12:59

The families had been long gone. And

13:01

now the only folks living there were

13:04

fishermen and hunters. Almost

13:09

50 years later, Cahaba got one more chance

13:11

at a new life. The state

13:13

of Alabama decided to invest money to

13:15

turn its first capital into a historic

13:17

park. Almost every

13:20

family from Cahaba's early days was gone. Even

13:22

the fishermen and hunters had barely stuck around.

13:24

But there was still a descendant from Cahaba's

13:26

days as a black haven. There

13:29

was a woman who married the child of Ezekiel

13:31

Arthur who was enslaved. So

13:33

he was just one generation away

13:35

from enslavement. And she lived here

13:37

until she passed away about And

13:41

that kind of highlights why a place like Cahaba

13:43

is so special. The history is so far away,

13:45

but at the same time, so

13:47

close. Linda tells me roughly 25,000

13:49

people each year come to

13:52

old Cahaba archaeological park to see

13:54

and feel the history firsthand. Most

13:57

towns go undeveloped and they destroy what was there

13:59

before. Here, the footprints of

14:02

all those buildings and all those

14:04

lives are still there. So

14:06

I think to understand

14:08

who we are in the South now, we have

14:10

to see where we came from. And

14:13

all the parts are here. And

14:15

if they were excavated and studied, we

14:17

could really see how it all goes together,

14:21

because all of our histories are tied together. It's

14:23

like there's so many secrets

14:25

left untold. Old

14:31

Cahaba Archaeological Park is open Thursday through Monday,

14:34

10 a.m. to 5 p.m. There's

14:36

options to bike around Cahaba or take a

14:38

canoe down the Cahaba River. This

14:45

podcast is a co-production of Atlas Obscura

14:47

and Stitcher Studios. Our

14:50

production team includes Johanna Mayer

14:52

Dylan Therese Doug Baldinger Chris

14:54

Naka Camille Stanley Manolo Morales

14:57

Gabby Gladney Our technical director

14:59

is Casey Holford. This episode

15:02

was mixed by Luz Fleming.

15:05

Our theme and end credit music is by Sam Tindall. If

15:07

you want to learn more, be sure to

15:09

visit atlasobscura.com. There's a link in our episode

15:12

description. And my name is Bo

15:14

DeLair. The world isn't wide

15:17

enough for those with an insatiable

15:19

desire for discovery. The all-new 2024 Lincoln Nautilus Hybrid SUV

15:21

offers the power and freedom to

15:24

explore further and deeper than ever before. Intuitive

15:28

smart features ensure they are always on the

15:30

road. And the world is not wide enough

15:32

for those with an insatiable desire for

15:35

discovery. The all-new 2024 Lincoln Nautilus Hybrid

15:37

SUV offers the power and freedom to

15:39

explore further and deeper than ever before.

15:42

Intuitive smart features ensure they are always

15:44

connected to the road ahead. Inside,

15:47

a thoughtfully designed cabin immerses you

15:49

in a universe that is all your

15:51

own. The

15:53

larger-than-life panoramic display spans the

15:55

entire width of the cabin.

15:58

It's customizable and interactive. Drivers

16:00

can even personalize their backgrounds with

16:03

a series of nature-inspired themes. This

16:05

vehicle signals the arrival of

16:08

an exciting new chapter for Lincoln. Discover

16:10

more about the 2024 Lincoln

16:12

Nautilus at lincoln.com. The

16:16

secret oat for nourishing your

16:18

sensitive skin. Aveeno's daily

16:20

moisturizing body wash and lotion routine gives

16:22

you two times the moisture in two

16:24

easy steps. Thanks to

16:26

both nourishing oat formulas. Step

16:28

one, lather on the daily moisturizing body

16:30

wash in the shower. Then

16:32

step two, layer on Aveeno's

16:35

daily moisturizing body lotion for

16:37

24 hours of clinically proven

16:39

hydration. Reveal softer, smoother,

16:41

healthier looking skin. Shop Aveeno

16:43

now at Target.

Unlock more with Podchaser Pro

  • Audience Insights
  • Contact Information
  • Demographics
  • Charts
  • Sponsor History
  • and More!
Pro Features