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1:07

Yours. This

1:15

week on our show, we've been talking about

1:17

trees. We have been basically sending

1:20

love letters to trees. We

1:22

really did run an episode a couple of days

1:24

ago where we actually wrote love letters to trees.

1:26

Don't make fun of us. Those trees are great.

1:29

We love them. Everybody loves

1:31

trees, except maybe

1:34

our guest today. Trees

1:37

kill, man. Trees kill. This

1:40

is Mary Roach, science writer and

1:42

author most recently of Fuzz, When

1:45

Nature Breaks the Law. Also,

1:48

world-known tree hater. I

1:50

found three reports in the Balinese newspapers

1:53

of people killed by falling durians. Though

1:55

durian has spikes on it, you know,

1:57

it's like a big, heavy thing with

1:59

a tree. It's like a medieval

2:01

weapon that falls on you. And

2:04

they found the murder weapon right next

2:06

to the poor guy's body, the bloody

2:08

durian fruit. Yeah, I don't think until

2:10

I read your book that

2:12

the notion of death by pinecone

2:15

had ever even crossed my mind.

2:17

It's like just the thought of

2:20

it. Yeah. Yeah, there's

2:22

a pine called the Colter pine.

2:25

I like that it was named

2:27

for Ann Colter. It's

2:30

like this is a

2:32

very big, heavy pinecone. It's like a

2:35

bowling ball. These pinecones drop down and

2:37

if that thing hits you, you're gone. Some

2:40

of these groves of Colter pines, they'll

2:42

put up a sign that says, Danger,

2:45

falling pinecones proceed with caution.

2:47

I mean, it would be

2:49

hard to take seriously until you're lying

2:51

unconscious on the ground. Exactly. Unfortunately, yeah.

2:54

Yeah, facing that sign, most people will decide to proceed.

2:56

They're like, it's a pinecone. How bad could it be?

3:00

And it's not just falling fruit or

3:02

pinecones that can kill you. While

3:04

researching her book Fuzz, Mary found that between the

3:06

years of 1995 and 2007, falling

3:11

trees killed nearly 400 people

3:14

in the United States. As

3:16

it turns out, trees like this,

3:19

trees that want to murder you

3:22

have a name. This is a technical term.

3:25

Danger trees. I

3:28

was drawn to this just because the

3:31

whole term, danger tree,

3:33

it's like a danger mitten. Yeah.

3:36

What do you mean, danger tree? I'm

3:41

Dylan Thuras and this is Atlas

3:43

Obscura, a celebration of the world's

3:45

strange, incredible and wondrous places. And

3:47

today, the great and amazing Mary

3:50

Roach is taking us deep into

3:52

an ancient forest grove on Vancouver

3:54

Island. And we are going

3:56

in search of danger trees And

3:59

the people who seek. Them out. And.

4:02

Exploded. And

4:10

you cover. Deadly. Trees

4:12

in fires. Maybe you

4:14

could elaborate on on

4:16

what that means. They.

4:18

Are designated danger trees.

4:20

So these are trees.

4:23

That usually they're very, very

4:25

very. Old. And because the very old,

4:27

A very very very big. We're talking

4:29

like giant douglas firs. And things like

4:32

that and Caesar trees that spend

4:34

the no other eight or nine

4:36

hundred year lifespan, a couple hundred

4:38

users dying slowly rotting from within.

4:41

The because they rot smooth are

4:43

you can't really see what's the

4:45

to the naked eye you'd think.

4:47

That three looks okay to

4:49

me. Dun Dun assists. It's

4:52

citizens this they. it's either

4:54

you to. The a high winds

4:56

and a big storm and sometimes

4:58

they they come down and you

5:00

know when a big tree comes

5:02

down that every now and then

5:04

lands on somebody tent or somebody

5:06

car and and so so these.

5:09

These. Are danger trees and there's

5:11

people whose whole job will not

5:13

their whole job of part of

5:15

their job there a danger tree

5:17

assessors and they make annual visits

5:20

to places like to Cedar Grove

5:22

Up and Macmillan Provincial Park in.

5:25

British. Colombia where there's a bunch of these big old

5:27

trees. And they cannot early

5:29

they they check for the signs

5:31

as decrepitude and rot and then

5:34

sometimes suggests. Taking. Action which

5:36

isn't always cutting the tree down. Maybe.

5:38

You could kind of set the scene for us.

5:40

What is what is Macmillan Provincial Park actually look

5:42

like. That sees mass is

5:45

not eight nine hundred. Year

5:47

old I'm Douglas firs, another

5:49

conifers, And they are a it's

5:51

was because the of that of the

5:54

forest. Floor is just. It's

5:56

it's dark, therapists are so the trees are

5:58

so high. So it's it's. Dark

6:00

it's very wet, it's very green

6:02

and any you walk around and.

6:05

It of the the term forest floor

6:07

doesn't It doesn't feel like a floor,

6:09

it's like you're you're walking on old

6:11

decade logs and your foot can go

6:13

through but in the use a cell

6:15

over several times it's very nice place

6:17

to fall because it's very mossy. Like

6:19

sit mosques. The trees, The trunks,

6:22

Of the trees are all covered and there's

6:24

ah there's moss. On them. says.

6:26

Is beautiful and there's a lot of

6:28

wildlife because an old trees particularly. we

6:30

have some of these old. Partially.

6:33

Collapsing. Trees are great real

6:35

estate for wildlife and in their

6:38

of embarrassed. Can make tens inside

6:40

zone. the of the bare branches

6:42

are great for raptors to purchase

6:44

on. Woodpeckers love them so it's

6:46

a it's a great fan of

6:49

varied wildlife community. But mostly it's

6:51

just it's dark and dripping and ferns

6:53

and mosses. It's that kind of player.

6:55

it's it's pretty magical. Those kinds of

6:57

environments are always feel like I'm it.

7:00

If you tell me about like Elvis

7:02

are real the like gouging that of

7:04

our of and I'm against it seems

7:06

very plausible you know at. Least a

7:08

pretty sure I saw the Keebler else. Upset

7:11

if if if if if the door and

7:13

the to are you sure we walk fi

7:15

that that up there and you you are

7:17

not just their alone you are you were

7:19

in this cathedral of for use with a

7:21

couple of other people to to do something.

7:24

Rather, Aggressive ones who are you

7:26

more than with as you went through

7:28

this. I low I was with this guy

7:30

dean who as the days are to assess are

7:32

so he's the guy comes in and he's looking

7:35

for things like. Comics which are these

7:37

disks that grow their fungus and there

7:39

they they grow out of the exterior.

7:41

the tree. if the insides rotting and

7:43

you did the it is You see

7:46

a cock on the outside. It means

7:48

the insides pretty far gone so he's

7:50

looking for those he's looking for sciences

7:52

to. The tree is starting to pull

7:55

up. the earth is listing. On one

7:57

side, so he's going around doing his sort of

7:59

checkup. The guy and in

8:01

stages best is that like a

8:03

tree. You. Don't often get

8:05

to use the adjective. Dead. Or

8:07

fifty bucks. But there's areas better

8:09

than our and. Then totally that says

8:11

it goes from. Dead hard fees

8:14

or assistant less is instead hard.

8:16

Did. I forget of did

8:19

softer dead spongy comes next are

8:21

probably dead soft and then dead

8:23

spongy and finally is certain point

8:25

the tree insists it's it's so

8:27

spongy. That. It loses integrity,

8:29

this is false, and then it's on the

8:32

ground and that is dead fall and now

8:34

it's no longer danger. Tree said yeah, it's

8:36

it's it's it's a log. Assess assess,

8:38

assess as if it's debt with a

8:40

for when it's a log are getting

8:42

Ah yes, the. Next

8:46

on Atlas Obscura, there's. Just. Chainsaw

8:48

going up and let one of

8:50

the guy goes. he's actually a

8:52

falling safety advisor. We had to

8:54

falling safety advisors. Hunt ducks are

8:56

on sites and he goes Yeah,

8:58

was probably a special not for

9:00

this but we're not gonna do

9:02

it. If it's effectiveness. That

9:04

said, my leg or us. Go

9:07

in Athens Oleanna like sawdust

9:09

as spraying. Everywhere. With

9:13

after this. On

9:25

me to sing them of. The planet

9:28

of the Eaves is coming to I

9:30

Max theaters everywhere. Summer

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of the Planted of you saw me in

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yet. Learn more at Fun

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per se. Because.

10:31

These enormous dying trees can fall

10:33

in such unpredictable ways we can't

10:35

just be taken care of by

10:37

your standard lumberjack and you can

10:39

just go and start wakhan and

10:41

with an axe. So after Dean

10:43

goes in and identifies which are

10:46

the trees that need mitigating. Then.

10:48

Macmillan Grove brings in. The.

10:51

High Explosives. That work

10:53

is done by and stuff All

10:55

or Blaster to fall or Blaster.

10:57

And his name was Daisy Way

10:59

Mer L in this case. And

11:02

I know, daisy. Not a

11:04

common lumberjack. Name. Is

11:07

actually da's the why? Which.

11:09

Comes from his early is he is

11:11

has to do with weed not for

11:14

some. Corporate refer to as a

11:16

kid like. Why would they brought these

11:18

trees? It's terrible that is So so

11:20

what happens in up blowing up the

11:22

whole tree Whoop! His job is blowing

11:24

off the top of these seeds trees

11:26

and what that does is it makes

11:28

them later. There's less for the wind

11:31

to cats so there's less sale on

11:33

the top as they say so so

11:35

there's less Most and on their more

11:37

stable is is buying you time and

11:39

and because it two thirds of the

11:41

way up. His. On one of

11:43

those trees his way the heck up

11:45

there. So the average bert tourist walking

11:47

through Cathedral Growth will. Just think, oh,

11:50

here's another big giant, beautiful, mossy.

11:53

Korea is in order to see the top that

11:55

the part that's blown off if the lean. Way

11:57

way back which I did and fell over into. The

11:59

Moss. Again, At.

12:01

So ah yes that the remedy is

12:04

to blow off the top of the

12:06

trees. Now it's not a dame.

12:08

it's I danger anymore. It's not

12:10

a can. Sort of. Quietly continue. To.

12:13

Rot without a about yeah the it.

12:15

At a certain point, it'll. Film

12:17

probably wanna. Take. More of

12:19

it out but anyway it's it's a it.

12:22

It buys the tree some time makes it

12:24

safer. it also makes it available for wildlife

12:26

is a kind of up the hollows out

12:28

from the top the water gets in and

12:31

so it's some. it's a a nicer. It's

12:33

a nice solution, makes it safer without turning

12:36

to see to grow into a bunch of

12:38

very large stumps. I

12:40

like that tourists are walking through this

12:42

environment you know booing and eyeing this

12:45

and loss. Beautiful environment. little do they

12:47

know they're they're spending among these explosive

12:49

libra head is is reported to police

12:51

suited seat of a gruesome death and

12:54

destruction and such as and and little

12:56

mother another where they know have you

12:58

got to watch David Stern do this

13:01

for for for a tree Get this

13:03

This was happening i quite early in

13:05

the morning rise you guys were what

13:07

time was this would you are there.

13:10

It. Was quite early. we showed up in the

13:12

morning probably? I think we all met for

13:15

at six am. Something like that. Ah

13:17

that. They try to do it pretty early cause

13:19

of got ahold and they hold up traffic if

13:21

that to flag years on either side. Making

13:24

sure nobody's it does. It wasn't

13:26

too far back from them main

13:28

road so on the near know

13:30

they're very very. Cautious.

13:33

Did. You have like bollixed safety gear

13:35

today like make you were like hard

13:37

hats and stuff as you went to

13:40

this for us no no i I

13:42

could have not of. The i don't

13:44

think I had. No.

13:48

Certainly not walking through. The I I

13:50

had a. Great. Big fluorescent

13:52

coat. Only because I'm. A

13:55

come from the Bay Area and I never

13:57

have enough warm gear and it was. Hold

14:00

and drizzling and they're like, what are you. Wearing.

14:03

Like a win win breaker was. Take.

14:05

This coat that's just so I had like

14:08

one of them gave me this diet Coke.

14:10

Course, the pockets are full of wood chips and.

14:13

Effort. But and I don't think

14:15

they can remember where in a hard

14:18

at and Iran's you think this the

14:20

falling safety advisor would have. Maybe maybe

14:22

they did. no I don't remember where

14:24

and hard. But your fight, you're pretty

14:26

far back. From. Injury their

14:28

figure. If a tree falls I

14:30

knew the hard house not going do you

14:33

any disinterested in subset of like is it

14:35

really is as you just gonna happen to

14:37

you get pounded into the ground. Yet

14:39

exactly. it's like this or himself on a

14:41

plane. Like. Right? isn't really

14:43

gonna help. Chrysler

14:46

highly close to the yeah. I yelled at seat

14:48

belt for that for like. It is that

14:51

or is it crashed. The bodies will

14:53

be corresponding to the. Seats.

14:55

That yeah they've taken know who you are. Just

14:57

theoretically. All. It's gonna do

14:59

for you and for that they had

15:01

to your code they'd be like look

15:03

for the giant for us and code

15:05

that exactly of marry another. Ah A

15:07

to talk about the daisies job for

15:09

a second. This

15:11

feels like. Like. Many

15:14

many different dangers stacked together.

15:16

Yeah, Yeah, exactly. That's kind of amazing

15:18

to watch. Three Followers as

15:20

they're called. and Canada is a Lumberjack

15:22

is that a Us term? They don't

15:24

say Lumberjack there. they say followers. But

15:26

anyway, those guys. To. Cut down to for

15:29

his his they the way they go up

15:31

that that spikes on their size of their

15:33

boots and they yell spike in that so

15:35

they can get purchase on the tree and

15:37

I've just got a lot. Like a piece

15:39

of rope that's around the strength as

15:41

a tree. So that year he is,

15:43

he is. Spike. In with your seats

15:45

and then you pull your body close

15:47

as a tree which makes the ropes

15:49

slack and that you slip at up

15:51

another in a few feet and then

15:53

you go up with your feet. You

15:55

really only held. By your feet of is

15:57

like if you drop that wrote. The

16:00

young year in trouble. Or is it

16:02

the it looks phenomenally. Frightening

16:05

to me and then as like the

16:07

guy down below who's that is gonna.

16:10

Send. The drill up to you

16:12

on a rope. You know it's the

16:14

success that field said no to say

16:16

they saw us. It's his chain flying

16:19

in a little square box to stick

16:21

for the explosives in skills. Others this

16:23

chainsaw going up and let one of

16:26

the guy goes, he's actually a falling

16:28

safety advisor. We had to falling safety

16:30

advisors. Sponsors are on sites and he

16:32

goes. Yeah, it's probably a special, not

16:35

for this but we're not gonna do

16:37

it. For Christmas say

16:39

advise like auto us. Go

16:41

in Athens Elliott us like sawdust as

16:44

spraying everywhere daisies. job is to dote

16:46

two thirds of the way up the

16:48

tree and then drill holes in a

16:50

in a circle maybe four holes and

16:52

then he's sticking to their not real

16:55

six Ill to look like. Chocolate.

16:57

Chip cookie dough. It's like explosives in

16:59

there. As the A we're we're how

17:01

many seats? couple hundred seat back. I

17:03

can't remember how far Joker so so

17:05

busy comes down. Everyone gets through hundred

17:07

feet away. Where what's the moment? One

17:09

who presses the button yemen? what is

17:12

it? Joe was the sound. Yeah,

17:14

that the stomper somebody gets to hit the

17:16

to the stopper and it's just that. It's

17:18

it's it's just a small metal. like what

17:21

you push. To cross the street. You

17:23

know to change this traffic light a

17:25

success and you'd stop on it with

17:27

your boots and I'm that sense this

17:29

kind of shockwave down the. The sauce

17:32

and as a called a shock to i can't remember.

17:34

When he wakes up and almost

17:36

instantaneously. First of all it's this was

17:38

a explosives and then with distance couple

17:41

of loud crash as because the says.

17:43

Three as it's coming down, Six out a

17:45

few the branches of other trees are on

17:47

the way down as as smooth. When

17:50

the whole thing hits the ground. So

17:52

it's a bit like three stages. Of

17:54

fabulous Big Noise which at a

17:56

plus they're all of the people

17:58

around. Whooping it! I

18:03

don't know some basic human saying

18:05

to. Scream with delight

18:07

when there's. Something blown

18:09

up. This is embarrassing. I don't know if

18:11

I if is even I include this detail

18:13

in the book but the first time I

18:15

did the Stomper a hit it kind of

18:17

on the side and it didn't go. Let's

18:19

him as a barista effective as a lot

18:21

of doled out the so much build up

18:23

to this moment at for seek help you

18:25

they can't They do like the airport there's

18:27

that air horn and they do and twelve

18:29

times to to let everybody know state clearer,

18:32

really count down and and are like spoke.

18:34

With. Specific. A different

18:36

effect but after that I was really

18:38

pathetic. Government do they do but erhard

18:40

again did you like that we have

18:42

any well as the only job that

18:44

the i know that before i'm serious

18:47

are people. Are you know.

18:49

People love trees. Olive trees. This is

18:51

a story about exploding them. Does this

18:53

practice bother people? Is it like controversial?

18:56

On it there are people who

18:58

ah that there have a time

19:01

spin people protesting. I add

19:03

days told me about that. Is.

19:06

People like he he tried to isa he said

19:08

you know or of apps gonna try to explain.

19:11

To. The soaks amicus. just you know. you

19:14

hear they explode trees and you think

19:16

that's horrible. These are old. Trees and

19:18

barracks. They're blowing. Them up that when you

19:20

explain to them this is a dead. Trick.

19:22

This is a dead spongy. It's

19:25

it's were trying. To make it safe

19:27

while it's in. This did say is

19:29

here before it's dead, fallen on top

19:31

of somebody. So it's he tries to

19:34

explain as it's it's It's not intuitive.

19:36

You know you don't, You hear the

19:38

explosions and you hear this crash and

19:40

you think oh my god they're blowing

19:42

up these beautiful old. Growth Trees

19:44

and. so he tried to explain it

19:46

to somebody and he said i don't do

19:48

this anymore because i went up to this

19:51

woman and i explained it to and she

19:53

said we but we think the trees know

19:55

when it's their time to fall like know

19:57

they don't the wind it's the wind it's

19:59

that rot in the tree. It's a

20:01

combination of factors. You're

20:03

just stepping in

20:06

to try to make that place safe.

20:08

But he's like, she didn't get it.

20:10

And I give up. So yes,

20:14

but there are people who dislike

20:17

it. And I get it, you're blowing up a tree.

20:19

People love trees, especially big,

20:21

beautiful, old trees. People love

20:23

them. There's an emotional connection.

20:25

I get that. You

20:34

know, after after working on this book and sort

20:36

of taking this, you know, again, like we're talking

20:38

about trees, but in general, people have this very

20:40

sort of wholesome thought

20:42

about nature, like it's natural, you know,

20:45

and it's, and you wrote this

20:47

whole book that's sort of like, yeah, it's

20:49

natural, but it doesn't mean it can't kill

20:51

you in 10 different ways. Yes.

20:54

Did you sort of look at

20:56

trees or pinecones or plants sort

20:59

of differently after working on on

21:01

fuzz? Well, yeah, when

21:04

I was working on the

21:06

book, I came across because

21:08

I got interested in the whole idea

21:10

of I mean, trees, because they can't

21:12

run away, and they can't attack, they

21:15

don't have teeth and claws, they have

21:17

to protect themselves in kind of quiet,

21:19

sinister ways like that, like, boys.

21:23

It's a good one. And I

21:25

came across, you know, there's all these things

21:28

like the federal noxious weed list, they're sort

21:30

of like the FBI's most wanted list of

21:32

toxic plants. And there's something called the rosary

21:34

pea. And it's this little it's this beautiful

21:37

kind, it looks like a yin and yang,

21:39

red and black, a little

21:42

bean. And I and I have a

21:44

couple of them, I got them in the rainforest

21:47

in in Trinidad, I

21:49

think it was years

21:52

and years ago, these beautiful little beans, and they were

21:54

on my desk, and they're just sitting on my desk.

21:56

And They contain abrin,

21:59

which is. Ah wanna see deadliest

22:01

toxins and essence and yeah I'm like

22:03

oh my god the the grand kids

22:05

and they they come over they could

22:07

have like eaten at suckers who oppose

22:09

So I did have the set and

22:11

then I looked at them in a

22:13

letter of it wasn't. A noxious weightless

22:16

but it was some list of

22:18

i'm highly. Poisonous. A

22:20

farm and plants only like eight of them

22:23

were either in growing in my yard or

22:25

had been planted in the past couple of

22:27

years or on in plants. Or it's not

22:29

just. The rare like the rosary p or that

22:31

or or the. The. One

22:33

that gives you reisen, the other. Been.

22:36

Ya esta bien. De Castries. Ah it's

22:39

it's. not a rare saying. Plants are.

22:41

Like don't with me that the I will

22:43

get you. I remember when I was a

22:45

kid or not even that is odd. maybe

22:48

the eleven or twelve. I realize that if

22:50

you if you caught open the the seeds

22:52

of an apple that they have a little

22:54

thing in them and they have a nice

22:57

kind of a nutty taste that I would.

22:59

I keep the some of them sometimes and

23:01

I found out. Later. That

23:03

those that was the taste but not

23:05

a taste of cyanide. yes the save

23:07

some days Vegas and I was like

23:09

oh and the was said Apple Jazz

23:11

it's a play a half or is

23:13

are not not to be trusted These

23:15

these brown and white noise. And

23:17

there's a are on the school or

23:20

my. Grandkids. Colors look like.

23:23

This. A Sour grass. you know it's oxalis

23:25

I think and they is ico this you

23:27

can actually eat this. Nice plan like you

23:29

know what? I'm not a good idea to

23:31

purge little kids to eat plants and stuff

23:33

on in their mouth of and they really

23:36

oh what about this oh mccann a them

23:38

like know who. Could not have f

23:40

as the not been enough for Foxglove.

23:42

Just say because I believe it's assist

23:44

he likes. That they're good or other

23:46

plants edo he just think over there so

23:49

you're so sweet and. Nine.

23:51

And jobs in I mean again, they gotta

23:53

do some does stay safe, Totally.

23:57

well as always a

23:59

delightful Really fun conversation.

24:01

I'm jealous of your

24:03

experience Blowing

24:05

off the top of this tree. What a

24:07

what a crazy wild thing to have gone

24:10

and done and And and if

24:12

you haven't read it, you should go and

24:14

buy yourself a copy of fuzz when nature

24:16

breaks the law It's

24:18

Mary Roach's latest book. Thanks

24:20

Mary. Thank you for talking to us. Oh Thank

24:23

you so much. Don't it's always so much fun

24:30

Our Podcast

24:49

is a co-production of Atlas Obscura

24:51

and stitcher studios. This

24:53

episode was produced by Amanda McGowan

24:56

Julia Russo the production team

24:59

includes Doug baldinga Chris Naka

25:01

Camille family Manolo Morales Baudelaire

25:04

Gabby glad me Johanna Mayer

25:07

Our technical director is Casey Holford This

25:09

episode was mixed by loose Fleming if

25:11

you want to learn more be sure

25:14

to visit Atlas Obscura calm There

25:16

is a link in the episode description

25:19

and our theme and end credit music is

25:21

by Sam Tyndall. I'm Dylan surface Wishing

25:24

you all the wonder in the world I will

25:26

see you next time The

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