0:00

packers viruses mall

0:02

where there must be more than

0:04

fifty ways to lose your crypto but

0:07

one of the ways is when you voluntarily

0:09

handed over to criminals who are demanding

0:11

a ransom this can be the

0:13

result of ran somewhere what

0:16

is this insidious method of extracting

0:18

money from people how did it come to be

0:21

and how are you and your data at

0:23

risk today we're joined by trent

0:25

fowler an expert in the area of ransom

0:27

where you'll want know what it is and

0:30

how you can protect yourself it's

0:32

little dark but as usual we try

0:34

to keep it light an episode number six

0:36

hundred and eighteen

0:37

the

0:40

bed crypto podcast prior

1:05

the email or meaning little release

1:08

the pictures we have travis

1:11

rights

1:14

funny so , i got my

1:17

my phone sim has backed

1:19

out and seventy and eleven really early episodes

1:22

episodes i'm trying to frighten me and like

1:24

oh we're going to release these naked pictures

1:27

of these hot women you have on your our

1:29

own our why

1:31

would you to forgive me now

1:33

i'm in town as within hey within atlanta

1:40

they are are both ,

1:42

travelers welcome

1:46

friends to the bad could go podcast know

1:48

you know how out on a trip those not bad

1:50

but we are this we

1:53

are show for the crypto curious the

1:55

crypto serious and those who prefer

1:58

their block chain and crypto in though

2:00

with little bit of levity were

2:02

coming up on five years

2:04

were just a few weeks out from our fifth anniversary

2:08

so if you want bake actually we are two

2:10

and half weeks out pretty much a

2:12

month yeah didn't july

2:14

sixteenth and with the twenty seventh today

2:16

that like less than three weeks my gosh

2:19

i need make appointments need to scylla limitations

2:22

the to get manicure pedicure

2:26

for me like i never use like

2:28

i'm an errand got a gal who comes here

2:31

and she does pedicures to

2:33

an nc like spends lot time

2:35

massaging and i'm like this

2:37

is basically power iraq

2:43

there my billie hydrocodone we

2:45

will not let let's just yeah let's

2:48

keep inside and not let it outside

2:50

our you find out until

2:52

you do your comedy bet that

2:54

features i know you're working on a new routine

2:56

right now that's gonna be very funny the

2:59

be funny i'm outsider some fire

3:01

gov the i'd be up on stage and cracking

3:03

jokes guys make his eyes makes makes me

3:06

feel good make people laugh yeah that

3:08

figures you know and some time and twenty twenty three

3:10

going around certain cities the

3:12

comedy you know the interesting as well

3:14

as like which one of our audience members

3:17

wouldn't would come and see me how do

3:19

comedy if i was in their cities and

3:21

so maybe that can actually help me determine

3:23

which cities go oh,

3:24

oh yeah so send us us an email, bad

3:27

cripple podcast at gmail.com and invite

3:29

travis we we would like a formal

3:32

letter written inviting him to

3:35

attend a comedy stand

3:37

up up microphone place in your your city

3:39

that

3:40

would would be be great, but

3:48

i called resident, and actually

3:51

keep track how many days that

3:53

you've been in or on the island

3:55

and suffer for tax purposes or whatnot

3:57

so mean to porto rico for eighty three days

4:00

the bar which is almost it into joseph

4:02

can be about half of year i've been here

4:05

a beer united states forty one day was

4:07

means you can only be in there for what

4:09

three months or some and the i'd say

4:11

three months tops six my my

4:13

was on the island so just see you know

4:15

i would about one hundred and fifty days on the island

4:17

so i'm almost there

4:19

you're almost there are as

4:21

i've added some time in mexico as i got

4:23

i got times where look at me i got six

4:25

months last night's gonna be here for three more months

4:27

so that's pretty good but see you can't be and

4:29

united states more than three months so i might

4:32

be able to go and do some comedy this

4:34

year little bit some time and time again that

4:36

by how many days i have on the island thinking

4:39

about this i'm actually working on a comedy routine

4:41

in spanish the give

4:43

em an hour and comedy place

4:45

here and six with think it's gonna be

4:47

horrible but will be funny

4:49

for me to go up and try to do comedy

4:52

in spanish like the to me that's like like

4:54

an additional level or talent though

4:58

we have an interview

5:00

you discuss this is usually the banter

5:02

we save for after the interview both good banter

5:04

and i am and think gov i would

5:06

come and see you give that spanish

5:09

i would know what you're saying but just

5:11

to lack of air dodges is gonna be simple

5:13

terms panics yeah here's something

5:15

that's not funny ransom were super

5:17

not funny and ah but this interview

5:19

at trent followers very interesting you're

5:21

gonna want to listen to every last little

5:24

morsel of it so you know what to watch

5:26

out for and here we go

5:31

malware know with not

5:33

what you get at the mall that

5:36

you can wear it malware is

5:38

something far more insidious than

5:40

that which you might pick up at heart

5:43

the topic it is

5:45

bad stuff on your computer and

5:47

mahler's more marlowe very

5:49

bad very bad as the course

5:51

it's sort forks malicious but

5:54

also works in french toast

5:56

mas is bad in

5:59

french something twenty nine year old

6:01

air missile jolo oh he goes back to

6:03

latin if we really wanted to get nerdy about it feeling of santa

6:05

tracker and eleven speaking of nerds at other voice

6:07

that you here right now would be our guest for

6:09

today his name is trent fowler

6:11

he's an author data scientists block chain

6:14

endless business strategist and

6:16

co-host of the future rowdy podcast

6:19

he's here today to talk all about

6:21

a kind of mall where that's even

6:23

more mall it's called

6:25

ransom where trent

6:28

welcome to the bed crypto podcast it

6:31

is an honor and privilege to join

6:33

you to fine upstanding gentleman on the back

6:35

of i guess it is both those things

6:37

but i must comment that we are neither find

6:39

or upstanding we are bad

6:42

sir lawrence argyle

6:44

but ah i'm so far as

6:49

, may i'm good with it's i saw

6:51

you know i suppose little bit about your

6:54

your background but maybe tell us little

6:56

bit more of your history

6:58

and why you are so passionate

7:01

about dubbed the scott topic of ran

7:03

somewhere

7:04

absolutely i always begin the answer that

7:06

question i'm asking how far you go back so

7:08

you you want college do want past three years

7:11

want was interesting however

7:13

not all the way back to the whoop prince

7:16

wealth it's it's it's was interesting ought to start to

7:18

days i woke up nothing prior to

7:20

my parents the spot as as an issue my lights

7:22

this is your high watermark right here without

7:24

about it's all downhill we have a

7:26

good way to say your home on lot that

7:29

a blanket of brick wall then

7:31

a tapestry on your wall

7:33

their that looks like revolt the

7:36

will not as bad an actual brick wall

7:38

that has been painted to look as though it's

7:40

a painting of a brick wall so it's it's a

7:42

tricky you twice oh man so

7:44

many

7:45

yeah yeah it's great for full

7:47

for you once shame

7:49

on you ,

7:52

me twice shame we won't have

7:55

as arrogant that's so i

7:57

guess what's interesting guess they

8:00

went to korea in two thousand and eleven because

8:02

i graduated a few months prior to

8:04

that no no jobs in colorado sort the

8:06

three for two years of study english and i

8:08

learned three and but that ultimately didn't give

8:10

to skip that i was hoping to get was very

8:12

interesting features topics so

8:14

came back to states in two thousand and thirteen i

8:17

was a professional writer and editor

8:19

doing as the a separate predominately

8:21

for about five years and during that time

8:23

at thomas frogs marcos with each

8:25

i podcasts and we started

8:27

putting events together a just building little

8:29

features community here in colorado

8:32

two thousand and eighteen my

8:34

my daughter had been born my dad

8:36

was kind of getting sick with cancer

8:38

and so just needed to make some changes my life's

8:40

and went to the galvanize data science program

8:43

in denver colorado and retracts and

8:45

she murdered engineer and data scientists

8:47

and in the three three and half or years

8:49

since i've been data scientist at

8:51

a couple of different startups too difficult to assets

8:53

startups and in

8:55

that time has fallen in love with the

8:57

block chain and it's and

8:59

it's and peril so it's true that

9:01

route i became aware of ran somewhere a topic

9:05

we discussed with cyber security professionals and

9:07

is it come on the art as before but

9:09

yeah it is a fascinating subjects and

9:11

it's one that care that lot about and has ramifications

9:13

for for crypto for cyber security number

9:15

i'd even geopolitics national security

9:18

as as we seen in recent months the soviets it's

9:20

really time wrote an article on before

9:22

so a lot you will probably don't know what

9:24

rants wary of i do i was the

9:26

global digital strategist

9:28

at symantec for the norton antivirus brands

9:31

i'm very familiar with the pets

9:33

keenest that is ransomware

9:35

but maybe i will look at me i'm

9:37

travis right? i know i'm

9:40

certainly not for

9:43

a

9:45

few years you know these things ahead

9:53

and you ask him travis even though i know what it

9:55

we go ahead and give your definition

9:57

of us to print fowler around ran

9:59

somewhere why is it so not the goods

10:02

right absolutely so obvious that only to inform you

10:04

travis far as industry veteran what this

10:06

is the for the blasts i'll explain itself

10:09

as as joelle alluded to in the

10:11

introduction mall where is essentially

10:13

just any nasty thing that person manages to

10:15

sneak onto your computer and it's a broader

10:17

term than ransom i read somewhere that kind

10:19

of malware and the named

10:21

as good job of communicating it's purpose ransom

10:24

where is used insect assistance

10:26

in order to encrypt or x will treat data

10:28

on that system in an attempt to extort

10:30

ransom out of out of person so

10:33

you it encrypt data

10:35

pictures of your grandkids whatever on your computer

10:37

and in charge a person x amount of x

10:39

number of dollars or bitcoins in order to

10:41

get that back and in some cases

10:44

these ransom or groups will actually

10:46

do double extortion where they will pull

10:48

the data off in a force you to pay for

10:50

it twice wants to unencrypted data and once for

10:52

them to delete their copy of it because in some

10:54

cases they will actually take the ransom

10:56

and in release the data anyway because it turns

10:58

out cybercriminals just not good

11:00

people general and so

11:02

true you know i've heard multiple

11:05

places like it was recently

11:07

was law firm that i had heard where they had

11:09

somebody was like look we got all your

11:12

data they had it on the clouds

11:14

somehow or and the google drive but they had locked

11:16

it they couldn't get through it any more they deleted

11:18

it off of there and we have all

11:20

your files for all your cases

11:22

you gotta give us some ridiculous ten

11:24

bitcoin and thirty bitcoin some stupid

11:27

and then the

11:28

thing is is that are these

11:30

guys are scamming you so

11:32

even if you decide okay it's worth

11:34

it for me to give them is twenty five bitcoin

11:37

whatever it says no guarantee there's going everyone

11:39

unlock the data in the first place right

11:41

inside like it's almost like you're damned

11:43

if you do damned if you don't want this guy

11:46

absolutely in there's the general question of whether or not you're

11:48

incentivizing them to continue guess you have to

11:50

do that calculation for yourself whether not the

11:52

data sensitive enough to warrant paying the ransom

11:54

but over time read somewhere groups

11:56

who the are made up pretty technically savvy people

11:59

realize that some the walking data wouldn't

12:01

do the job because people realize that they

12:03

to back up their data and restore and

12:05

infected computer by wiping it just rinse

12:07

and seeing all the data so now they x will trade

12:09

it more often they'll actually take off the computer

12:11

hosted somewhere that they control and only give it

12:13

back if you pay the ransom and

12:15

sometimes nine and that so when

12:17

it's writing as it its

12:19

not just businesses and individuals i found

12:21

this article just from last week on

12:23

not hardware dot com give

12:25

me your lunch money last beware bullies

12:28

took three point five six billion

12:30

from schools in twenty

12:32

twenty one that's me

12:34

as a absolutely ah

12:37

a while it's worth pointing out that one the key dynamics

12:40

in the development of ran somewhere since it

12:42

first began in nineteen eighty nine

12:44

is that they're going after progressively larger

12:46

targets so in ninety ninety

12:48

one it more likely that they would go after a dentist

12:50

or small business owner just some random person

12:53

a person they suspected had money and secrets

12:55

and if they could use the secrets to separate them from their

12:57

minds over time and especially

12:59

since two thousand and eighteen they've engaged

13:01

the strategy this called big game hunting where

13:04

they are less likely to attack random targets

13:06

and more likely to craft an attack specifically

13:09

for an enterprise of some kind schools

13:11

hospitals major infrastructure projects

13:14

governments corporations

13:16

like

13:17

a wells fargo's something they suspect

13:19

have quite lot

13:21

of money to be taken and they'll

13:23

extort them for some that are more like ten million

13:25

dollars or fifty million dollars so you've seen this really steep

13:28

uptick both the size of the ransom that are being

13:30

extorted and being the size of the targets they're going

13:32

after

13:33

so this this news just came out this week

13:35

around kanti c o n t i

13:38

kanti enterprise

13:39

apparently the ransom were gang that is

13:41

published data belong in hundred and fifty

13:44

different

13:45

companies and they're just mail on these

13:47

different people contrary fly with you guys

13:50

the

13:50

poorest county is one of most virulent professionalized

13:53

ransom were operators on earth and there's

13:56

one their bigger targets to date is actually

13:58

the costa rican governments and i

14:00

haven't seen anything publish recently

14:03

about this of my information probably to have weeks

14:05

old but last looked into account

14:07

he was explicitly trying to overthrow

14:09

the government of newly elected president

14:12

of costa rica so as far as

14:14

i know that's the first time a group like

14:16

a cyber criminal group has tried do something like

14:18

this it's he concedes the trajectory

14:20

and how israeli so

14:23

it is follow up to that i don't know if

14:25

but if county is a thing anymore

14:28

because this article from three days

14:30

ago says ransom were group conti abruptly

14:32

dispense right

14:35

so this is another thing that you see quite a lot is these

14:37

groups break apart and reform

14:39

pretty dramatically and on a pretty routine basis

14:42

so cause he's one of the bigger groups

14:44

into my knowledge it's one of biggest groups

14:46

to have done this but the

14:48

dark side black men had done similar sorts

14:50

things were are evil were shut down by

14:52

the russian government has as a few years back so

14:54

really not that uncommon for them to innovate this is one the

14:56

things that makes him such as a dangerous and wary

14:59

so is the fact that they adapt and this way

15:01

both terms of tweaking their software's

15:03

the dip get differences were strange

15:05

but also in in as much as they will

15:07

break apart as organizations and different

15:09

clusters will go off and form new notes

15:12

that spin up their own versions of ran somewhere

15:14

and start targeting people

15:16

a fresh so it's they're really slippery so

15:19

let's talk about the crypto audience

15:21

then you know how vulnerable

15:23

are people that are holding crypto

15:25

currency and oh

15:27

what can they do to protect themselves

15:30

yeah absolutely so for the most part

15:33

the intersection of crypto currency and ran

15:35

somewhere is in the extortion part it so they're

15:37

asking to be paid in crypto because

15:40

they seem to have believe that this would

15:42

make them harder to track with did then

15:44

would be if they just got cash on house

15:46

which has wound up kind of not being the case we get

15:48

into that a little bits in in so far

15:50

as person wants defend themselves from

15:52

ran somewhere and holding crypto i would

15:54

say that following basic

15:56

crypto best practices like storing things

15:58

a cold wallets ought to immunize

16:01

you from ran somewhere attacks

16:03

at least as far as crypto as it

16:05

as as an attack vector goes and

16:08

and more generally you've just gotta back

16:10

your system's change your passwords do all the

16:12

basic cyber security best practices

16:14

that that the protect

16:16

you from hackers in general

16:19

so i had another there's necessarily special

16:22

that of of precautions for do folks

16:24

need to take other than you're getting enough exchanges

16:27

and putting it cold storage and adding things you

16:29

should be doing anyway ah but there's

16:31

lot be said about the intersection

16:33

the crypto ecosystem and ran somewhere

16:35

if you might discuss that

16:39

it it it is fascinating that i'm just gonna go

16:41

back groups or researchers about the

16:44

contrary armada

16:46

attack armada aren't as crazy

16:49

as are calling it's but

16:51

in two three twenty twenty the how

16:54

many different companies they literally

16:56

attack hundred and sixteen

16:58

sixty seven one hundred and seventy one hundred

17:00

and forty seven seventy a queue

17:02

for twenty twenty one hundred and eighty

17:04

eight happening

17:06

q one hundred and

17:08

tears and then who knows how much as

17:10

other que tu as we're ending due

17:12

to and i hear they are are disbanding

17:15

and going into other things is kind

17:17

of while to take a look at that

17:19

now is is that

17:21

hardly are they normally

17:23

are the eggs or they sort of bob going

17:26

out there and in trying to extort people

17:28

from bitcoin a using crypto as

17:30

their payment method though

17:32

that you know some people down summer use and

17:34

i will try to use cash beyond

17:36

that you know other places payers money whatever

17:40

the meeting crypto

17:41

is quicker solution for them

17:43

but damn is there are what's

17:45

going on with that

17:47

right so i don't exactly know when the

17:49

first instance of ransom her group

17:51

requesting crypto occurred but

17:53

it has become popular payment mechanism for

17:55

them because it's it's digital is

17:57

ostensibly rather secure and if you

17:59

are careful enough and it's pretty hard for people

18:01

to pinot to use bus

18:04

yes crypto currencies have become popular

18:06

for random or groups that are trying to extort

18:08

money from their victims and

18:12

overtime ransom or groups have become

18:14

wise to the fact that the distributed

18:16

public ledger distributed public an immutable

18:18

and that record has been has boon

18:20

for law enforcement agencies are trying to track down

18:23

who's doing what on blockchain adam and eve rid

18:25

of same stories all the time of for example

18:27

that the bits and accept that occurred that

18:29

couple of years ago where are these two

18:31

people extorted alien the dollars

18:34

and crypto from this next much that been

18:36

recovered now because it it became

18:38

possible for people to track down those dresses find

18:40

where it was was hidden and

18:42

recover a lot of that so i think

18:44

that over time these ransom or groups as

18:46

they professionalized become more savvy and and

18:48

has come understand the

18:52

that falls and using crypto currencies commit crime

18:54

they become savvier and i suspect

18:56

overtime number one that trend will continue

18:59

so that they'll get even better at using services like

19:01

coin joins mixers or tumblers

19:03

hide their tracks on chain but

19:05

i have sort of tentative prediction which

19:07

i'm not a harvest and competent but i think

19:09

that over time they may begin to use

19:12

alternative crypto currencies like narrower see

19:14

cash which have much stronger

19:16

default privacy guarantees built in

19:18

and which use technologies like zero knowledge

19:20

proofs are hum morphic encryption to

19:22

make much much harder to determine not just who's

19:24

involved in a transaction but even the size a transaction

19:27

where it's going what's going on so i i

19:29

suspect that they're going get just even better at this

19:31

as time goes on so how does this whole

19:33

ransom things ransom where things

19:35

start right

19:37

so you can find

19:40

can find ran somewhere asked sorts

19:42

of exploits going back quite long way but

19:44

basically everybody

19:46

charge the beginning of ran somewhere as a separate

19:48

phenomenon to nineteen eighty nine and

19:50

as evolutionary biologists by the name

19:52

of joseph pops sent out twenty

19:54

thousand ransom were infected floppy disks

19:57

to attendees of the international aid

19:59

conference in stock and the time he

20:01

was asking for one hundred and eighty nine dollars

20:03

to be sent to appeal boston panama's

20:06

in in exchange for unlocking files

20:08

on on people's computer systems and he arrested two

20:10

weeks later so don't know how much money made that i'm guessing not

20:13

a whole lot and for next twenty

20:15

years or so ransom were really didn't change

20:17

all that much in two thousand and seven

20:20

you saw the rise of what recall the

20:22

locker variants in locker

20:24

variants are ones which ran

20:26

somewhere will actually it's more less

20:28

shut down the functionality

20:30

of a computer wholesale and you won't even be able to use

20:32

the keyboard or the mouse in

20:34

order to do anything and they

20:36

would ask three hundred dollars to unlocks

20:38

the functionality your system in

20:41

two thousand and thirteen they level

20:43

up again and they started using rudimentary

20:45

cryptography to make it even harder

20:48

to intervene in the process of extorting

20:50

money from dick and so they would use public private keepers

20:52

and their encryption when encrypted your files and so

20:55

if you had jump to more hoops and it was

20:57

much more secure for them to take money from

20:59

you in that way two

21:01

thousand thousand march something of turning

21:03

point for to currencies it was when

21:05

crypt of times or at night and child

21:09

two thousand and eighteen marks something a turning point

21:11

point for ransom were groups because we started

21:13

to pursue strategy that i alluded to earlier called

21:15

big game hunting where instead of going

21:18

to jail com and saying or jolt we're gonna

21:20

interests are either you pay

21:22

as a thousand dollars we're going to send your wife

21:24

your if the search history on a computer screen

21:26

instead of doing something like that they're more likely to go after

21:29

pricewaterhousecoopers and try to get you

21:31

know ten million dollars twenty million dollars rather

21:33

than trying to build up little over top

21:35

overtime

21:36

and if you're going to going after bigger

21:38

game there game there be a concomitant

21:41

increase in seriousness with which you treat

21:43

your work see you can hunt rabbit

21:45

with of an era of it's better on bear with with

21:47

a bow and arrow if gonna go after something bigger and more dangerous

21:50

you gotta get more serious about that and

21:52

so that has heralded

21:55

what's now calls the professionalization

21:57

a ransom were sometimes called the rise

21:59

of

22:00

ransom op's or ran somewhere as a

22:02

service and ransom

22:04

whereas service isn't obvious analogy to

22:06

something like sofres a service or platforms the service

22:08

and service and anybody who doesn't they're not travis obviously

22:10

but for anybody who doesn't know software is

22:12

a service occurs when you code

22:14

up an application and you make that

22:16

software available to people who don't want to build themselves

22:19

and it is want pay a subscription fee

22:21

or one time licensing fee in order to use

22:23

your software you can story the date on your servers

22:26

or what have randomized service

22:28

marks are really staggering increase in

22:30

the professionalization of of these operations

22:32

because really really into waste first

22:35

all the operations themselves are

22:37

much more are structured much more like

22:40

businesses and they comport themselves like entrepreneur

22:43

enterprises that are actually trying to improve so

22:45

if you are in intelligence

22:49

eastern european or who doesn't have

22:51

much in the way economic prospects but you're good with computers

22:54

you can go on dark net pay five

22:56

hundred or a thousand dollars to get access to the newest

22:58

conti variants you can buy

23:00

a instead of leeds which are

23:02

people whose security systems have been compromised

23:05

but which have not been themselves targeted and you can just start

23:07

working down the line working down list

23:09

and going after these groups are these businesses

23:11

and whenever you successfully extort

23:13

money from them whenever you get ransom payment

23:15

you kick fraction of that backups

23:17

the progenitors it's it's just an affiliate model or

23:19

franchising oh you can operate ransom

23:21

wearing the same way that you might operate a burger king franchise

23:24

or starbucks franchise and so

23:27

we started see them operating more like

23:29

companies and there has also been rise

23:31

in larry services

23:33

provided by a broader ransom or ecosystem

23:35

so when the same way that there

23:37

are companies who specialize managing

23:40

microsoft licenses for small and medium enterprises

23:43

or and cloud computing services

23:45

for businesses that too small to have a budget

23:47

for cloud engineers you see the same sort of phenomenon

23:49

in this dark economy around ransom where you've

23:51

got groups that specialize

23:54

help helping people set of ransom were infrastructure

23:56

or doing secure hosting of email

23:58

off of off main server isn't

24:00

it is harder for it at the ice due to a

24:02

pack and and figure out what you're doing so

24:04

these two things marks or have

24:06

a really a sea change in how

24:09

people ever proves ransom were both terms of

24:11

way to businesses operate and also the emergence

24:14

of broader economy around and support

24:17

so its almost like theyre and and

24:20

blazing and empowering

24:22

these are these ransom were guys

24:25

in a lot of ways and will use

24:27

it right now i just saw from

24:30

our from earlier on of years because

24:32

he group had said that they

24:34

were backing moscow vs

24:36

ukraine in anyone that organizes

24:40

against them is going to get

24:42

all their get fleas sources fried

24:44

bags have been critical infrastructure five

24:47

it seems to me the world war three years

24:49

this economic sort of cyber

24:52

warfare right cyber

24:54

infrastructure warfare plus

24:56

economic warfare seems like we're

24:58

in we're in we're in midst of like of

25:01

global war been as unspoken

25:03

they did something new happening here

25:06

the

25:07

russian invasion of ukraine is already being called first

25:09

crypto worse because on

25:11

one hand you got possibility of

25:13

these russian oligarchs laundering money

25:15

out do crypto currencies for various reasons suspect

25:17

it's actually happening that much but

25:19

people kind of seized on that as positive and i'm sure it's

25:21

happening some and will probably have more future conflicts

25:24

and also because ukrainian government has

25:26

received hundreds millions dollars in donations

25:28

of ease and bitcoin

25:30

and think poker as well through addresses

25:32

of they publicly aren't without him i actually read

25:34

only way to get the i froze in ukraine

25:36

and rossi already get money to them the

25:40

is through crypto in

25:41

other do is are using finance as

25:43

a wallet and then it off boarding

25:45

from there into into

25:48

vr into the ruble ah

25:50

that's of russians are dylan and if you will

25:52

you still have you can still sense ukraine

25:54

through like you know very different money transfer

25:57

platforms but the the made

25:59

a precarious will

26:00

show off all russia's you know

26:02

of system to the financial

26:05

global financial system the only

26:07

thing available besides i was crypto so

26:09

by hello course thirty script

26:11

absolutely so you see people if you have his

26:13

heart warming stories of people escaping

26:16

the war zone with twelve words in

26:18

their heads that allow them to tap into most

26:20

of their networks and a wind up nice

26:22

losing as much in war as otherwise would

26:24

ask and i think that's wild

26:27

critters the role that

26:29

crypto has played in russia ukraine conflict

26:31

is probably little exaggerated i do think

26:33

it parkinson's a new sort dynamic

26:35

to warfare going for it and and picking up your comment

26:37

about county it's i think that's this

26:40

is really the high watermark

26:42

for the

26:45

boldness of these groups in going after

26:47

their enemies it is the first time to my knowledge

26:49

cybercrime group has said if

26:52

you target russia

26:54

with sanctions if there's any reprisals we

26:56

will come after you and spoke on half

26:58

of us have sovereign power as sort

27:00

of their cyber muscle and i don't

27:02

know that has ever happened before i did not minor

27:04

maybe there's north korean descent something like

27:06

that is one of first credible threats and

27:08

we see again as far as i know for

27:10

the first time a truly

27:13

global geopolitical dimension to

27:15

ransom were activities so in nineteen

27:17

eighty nine it was joseph partaking one hundred

27:19

ninety dollars from people now it's

27:21

resume group saying we are russia's

27:23

muscle and will come after you or attacking

27:25

costa rican trying overthrow the local government

27:28

i think that we've only begun

27:30

to see how ransom

27:32

where it will play out geopolitically

27:34

i think this as software east

27:36

world it becomes more attractive attack

27:38

vector and it becomes a more attractive fear

27:40

of war you're probably mr see more of that encrypted

27:42

will play a role in as

27:44

a as futurist and

27:46

looking at topics like quantum computing

27:49

and such what happens next

27:51

like what is the next evolution of

27:53

cyber crime asked

27:55

around somewhere absolutely

27:58

so i think there's a kind

28:00

of arms race dynamic at

28:02

play so in the same way that you

28:04

are hostile foreign powers who are in this tit

28:06

for tat developing it's defense systems

28:09

and weapons that can penetrate those defense systems

28:11

and on and on and just as you have the same

28:13

thing biologically were organisms

28:15

will evolve responses to parasites to

28:17

will have all response to the sponsors and

28:19

on and on i think gonna see the same thing and ran

28:21

somewhere looking

28:23

back but looking zooming out little bit i'm looking

28:25

at broader culture you can see that

28:27

people have become more

28:30

aware of how social

28:32

media and technology have improve

28:34

their lives but also made them more vulnerable in certain

28:36

ways and you see this broader reticence

28:38

to post pictures of your kids on

28:40

twitter for example or to just give away dated

28:43

a facebook because you hear stories

28:45

of like the cambridge analytic a scandal or your

28:47

stories about people who are murdered by their stalkers

28:49

because they were checking in and making their their

28:51

location in publicly available my

28:53

hope is that this war coalesce

28:55

into a broader audience

28:57

into more seriousness about cyber

29:00

security where where people to take password

29:02

management more seriously companies take their

29:04

own security more seriously and that will make

29:06

it harder for ransom her groups to attack i

29:09

suspect that that

29:11

will take a while to manifest and so

29:13

for the time being ransom were groups are going

29:15

to be pulling pulling

29:17

amounts of money for some time the hope is

29:19

that eventually we we can obviously advantages

29:21

they have with better security measures i

29:24

mentioned earlier some of things that think will happen

29:26

in crypto currency and i'll just briefly adam

29:28

rate here again i think that's these

29:31

groups are gonna continue to become more sophisticated

29:33

with respect to how they handle bitcoin

29:35

transactions that they're gonna get better and better at hiding

29:37

what they're doing i suspect although

29:39

i wouldn't say it's a hard predictions more of soft

29:41

reductions that they will begin to use alternative

29:43

crypto currencies that have

29:45

stronger privacy guarantees built

29:47

in and i

29:49

really worry if we don't take cyber

29:51

security sears and will not solve some of these

29:53

outstanding problems that the scale

29:56

at which these groups are operating will only become

29:59

bigger and steaks will only only get greater

30:01

so there was famously an attack

30:03

an an iranian nuclear facility i

30:06

, exactly when was think was two thousand around

30:08

there before nuclear

30:12

driver i believe that out

30:14

happen and and they were even spin up the

30:17

changed the rate the rate the things were

30:19

spinning and cause to melt enemies wound

30:21

up not being just as a huge disaster but

30:23

it kind of was is is opening

30:25

shot as to how big these sorts things

30:27

could be south in what would be like if

30:29

taunting were able to down

30:32

bunch of satellites and and chicken

30:34

entire country also the internet or folks will take

30:36

some structure in low earth orbit and

30:39

push it out lower orbit or another

30:41

they were get that iran nuclear plant

30:43

nuclear plants that was offline it

30:46

wasn't there was no internet connected to that

30:48

thing at all goodbye

30:51

later us be that was infected into

30:53

it took over the whole system right

30:56

right and i think either you're gonna see more that

30:58

unfortunately it's probably going to get worse before it gets better

31:00

and the ways you

31:02

defend yourself are pretty much the ways you

31:04

defend yourself against cyber security more generally

31:06

the batter files up there's

31:08

a good password manager shield

31:11

your activity online backup

31:13

self custody your crypto in cold wallets

31:16

the question is just is are you are

31:18

the state's gonna be high enough for the

31:20

average person to do that and i don't know that that

31:22

they will d but hopefully we can start building

31:24

better security guarantees into operating

31:26

systems into the browser's we use that there

31:28

are alternatives to to chrome

31:31

that that have the the score better

31:33

on those dimensions and soy sauce google

31:35

sucks like screw

31:37

screw everything google does i'm trying very

31:40

hard to a you go

31:42

out of their whole now that proton

31:44

has a calendar

31:47

mail and i'm docs

31:49

a drive you can actually porch stuff

31:51

over i've done it i just haven't turned

31:53

off google yet you know there's it

31:56

it's it's because it's big move they

31:59

have to make what you shut down alec

32:01

has so many other people still use it

32:03

soaks it's lot more gradual

32:05

than than i'd like to be what

32:07

it which browsers do you like

32:11

i'm on chrome right now i assess assess

32:13

assess the highest i've heard good things

32:15

about braise i've heard good things

32:17

about as weight you've always heard

32:19

good things but review high heaven as he tried

32:21

break i think

32:23

i have tried brave i didn't make the switch over

32:26

i didn't write you the i

32:28

wait is great in it's an easy switch

32:30

and that's what i use i don't use chrome

32:32

except when absolutely necessary

32:35

ah my keeper aside install

32:37

but don't have it as default because there's just

32:40

few things that don't work i'm brave

32:42

it's rare it does

32:44

happen it it's yours

32:46

is your security choice oh

32:48

boy well braves just better because it's not google

32:51

right and they're they're not tracking me unless

32:53

i give permission to show at

32:56

i'm actually using won the calder it's

32:58

a vast in other of the so

33:00

of the cyber security company they have their own

33:03

secure browser based based on

33:05

chromium and

33:06

so it's pretty much exactly chrome but locks

33:08

down a lot of the the stuff that we're google's

33:10

try allegedly because

33:13

you don't really know by the fact

33:16

i was always always always and a reason

33:18

for i worked in security space at my

33:20

at my uncle i had conversation about you

33:22

know they're probably they

33:24

probably got this this this back

33:26

room where the creating all these viruses

33:29

they can sell us at you

33:31

know ahead sorry virus software on ago

33:33

was one the original since fears is

33:35

back in day i think in the early nascent

33:37

stages of

33:39

malware seem like the edu largest

33:41

viruses in general seem

33:43

like that was the case now there

33:45

are some very militias groups

33:48

of people out there trying to do

33:50

as much economic damage as possible

33:52

so what can we really do the

33:55

protect ourselves true i mean what's

33:57

the you know or is madame masque

33:59

secure you know

34:01

i will i made well as well

34:03

as seems like

34:05

there virtually met a mass

34:07

was gonna get knocked on it seems like

34:09

because everything else is gonna you know they're trying

34:11

to go after it was like what

34:13

do need to do to keep saying

34:15

well the good news is with the

34:18

rise of strategy that i discussed

34:20

earlier big game hunting it's it's becoming less

34:22

less likely that you will have anything

34:24

to fear from this the what they think

34:26

you're big crypto well what's i'm not as i

34:28

always the end up selling whoa and

34:30

buying hi

34:32

i lost all mine and in a tragic boating

34:34

accidents are no will either don't bother cfl

34:37

almighty as i'm aware this see praises

34:39

velma both

34:41

the this episode of the bad

34:43

commiserate podcast

34:45

arrested by travis right in front follow

34:47

younger my car that blew up you

34:49

know my my , blew up

34:52

that didn't have keys either sucks

34:55

the string of of mysterious accidents

34:58

and is really troubling yeah so have

35:00

i think that's generally

35:02

you're gonna need to invest in

35:04

learning more about cyber security using alternative

35:07

browsers like braver the one that a vast

35:09

as put together that have alluded to in

35:11

this conversation taking greater

35:13

care of your cousin

35:15

your crypto custodianship answering

35:18

all that in cold wallets same protect your

35:20

ass at yes

35:22

break your ass that's coldly

35:24

with we call source

35:26

an intro to lose in boating accident if you can arrange

35:29

that but yeah i was

35:31

you know for pretty much the litany of standard

35:33

cyber security recommendations is great place

35:35

to start so using browsers are more secure

35:37

operating systems that are more secure changing your passwords

35:40

using strong password manager

35:42

like august last passive heard what

35:44

one passes is that of what town called

35:47

i are really good things about and actually

35:49

to this isn't something i've been thinking lot more about here

35:51

recently so am so am kind of degenerate

35:53

crypto earth i've got it off most my crypto

35:55

on an exchange i'm going to move all that off

35:57

look into the password managers try try to up my

35:59

secure the little bit because in researching this i've

36:02

become more worried about it like i said it's the

36:04

good news is it it's it's

36:06

kind of like being shot it's just it's it's

36:08

hard to defend against but any randomly

36:10

chosen person is unlikely to be the

36:12

target of of of such an attack so

36:14

it's just by virtue their being lots of other people

36:17

and lots of other potential targets many them

36:19

bigger than you you don't have that much to worry about but

36:21

if if really want to to get into it

36:23

i would i would investigate cyber security and starts

36:25

aching that seriously because most those recommendations

36:27

will also protect you from asthma all

36:30

righty well this has been very instructive

36:33

mr fowler how to people

36:35

find out more about you what you're

36:37

up to and updates in the ransom

36:39

were space

36:41

absolutely so you can check out if you trotted podcast

36:43

thomas fry and i put together an

36:46

episode every week talking about a i or quantum

36:48

computing or crypto or or have you a

36:50

if you trotted podcast dot com you can also find contact

36:53

page and there theres and about page with

36:55

bunch of information an me if you want to

36:57

investigate me particular and you can find an

36:59

twitter at trent underscore stem underscore

37:01

stem e m p you n k

37:03

so any of those would be great ways

37:07

have you sent your ten bitcoin yet

37:09

to the address on the record

37:13

that i have not because they seem

37:15

to have misplaced like

37:18

your you lost your bitcoin in dump somewhere

37:21

i'd want you to sell it for fell

37:23

in the tragic boat accident

37:25

that i had and then when my god save

37:27

from the boat my car exploded oh

37:29

the other sunken or exploded i

37:31

don't i was one have all my gosh and you put

37:33

your key is like you test to them on your next

37:36

with then you know the flames lift

37:38

the news right off your neck and so

37:41

are you know speaking of getting and stage

37:43

and being funny and all that you and

37:45

i had opportunity to speak at radio

37:47

city music hall the radio

37:49

city music hall in new york city for an f

37:51

t and y c and the we're

37:53

going be doing special episode that

37:55

is a recap n n

37:57

f t n y c on the nifty show

38:00

you're not subscribing to that podcast

38:02

yet and go over there hit the

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subscribe to follow button on whatever platform

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38:09

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38:11

that way you get more of us

38:13

and you get bonus of my son zach

38:16

on episodes as well

38:18

yeah i , that

38:21

that was one of the my ah you

38:23

know going onstage with you do

38:25

that radio city music hall that was

38:27

like browser sweet life moments

38:29

and right ever spike lee gone

38:32

up there and cracking jokes and

38:35

the my game of you're gay

38:37

couples was like you know spike lee got

38:39

our spades by the audience kept

38:41

getting bigger like we

38:43

you know so we had more people in our

38:45

session and spike lee had think it

38:48

had to do with the ridiculous

38:50

in this of trying get people and

38:52

they were like oh i get to see your id and

38:54

your and your qr code and

38:56

your badge and a sperm

38:58

sample and then they final in a man and

39:01

a but , was amazing i

39:03

really enjoyed rock and the seeds upset with us

39:06

us make sure you subscribe to the nifty show

39:08

we're going do a whole episode talking about the

39:10

nfc n y c experience we

39:12

just had and we will catch you

39:14

hear a this very channel

39:17

or the next episode of the bad crypto

39:20

podcast until then

39:22

you guys know what to do i don't even need to tell

39:24

you but we always on the show this when

39:26

i got to say that

39:37

the bad crypto podcast

39:39

is a production of bad crypto llc

39:42

the content of the show the videos and

39:44

the website is provided for educational

39:46

informational and entertainment purposes only

39:48

it's not intended to be and does not

39:50

constitute financial investment

39:52

or trading advice of any kind you

39:55

shouldn't make any decisions as to finances

39:57

investing trading or anything else based

39:59

on this information without undertaking

40:01

independent due diligence in consultation

40:04

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40:06

understand that trading of bitcoins and

40:08

alternative crypto currencies have

40:10

potential risks involved anyone

40:12

wishing to invest in any of currencies are

40:14

tokens mentioned on this podcast should

40:16

first seek their own independent professional

40:19

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