Episode Transcript
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0:00
Sam bankman freed has been sentenced to
0:02
25 years in a federal prison While
0:05
odds of him serving the full sentence are
0:07
in question many are wondering what life will
0:09
be like for him while behind bars Will
0:12
it be like oranges the new
0:14
black or will his experience be
0:16
more like a white-collar country club
0:18
today? We welcome another Sam to
0:20
the show Sam Mengele to discuss
0:22
his experience in federal prison and
0:24
what? SBFs experience is probably going
0:26
to be like from one who's
0:28
been there telling us all about
0:30
where another is going Listening
0:33
closely, but don't drop the soap
0:35
on this episode number 720
0:40
of the bad crypto podcast You
1:10
Have you ever heard the prison
1:12
referred to as the Calabus
1:14
Travis The
1:17
Calabus alabus never heard of that.
1:19
Yeah, I did The
1:21
saurus calm you got the
1:23
brig the slammer the who scout the
1:25
pen the pokey the cell the stir
1:30
The dungeon the joint the
1:32
guard house the stalag the
1:35
labor camp and don't forget the Bastille
1:39
I know why they call it the pokey. It's good. Somebody dropped
1:41
the soap No,
1:43
not the pokey Today
1:46
in the shower and I was like, oh no That's
1:48
when the hokey-pokey really is what it's
1:50
all about and you got You
1:54
don't want to get pokeyed in your hokey Especially
1:58
if you're in Oki Oklahoma I'll
2:00
tell you what this is first of all
2:02
welcome everybody to the bad crypto podcast very
2:05
little crypto talk today But the talk centers
2:07
around a crypto personality Larger-than-life
2:09
personality who's going to be doing time
2:11
for the billions of dollars that he
2:13
cost investors, and pimping been
2:15
freed is going to prison and We
2:19
got this email like the
2:21
day after the sentencing that this
2:24
gentleman who is a consultant to
2:27
To people that are going to federal prison
2:29
about you know how to Help
2:31
with your sentencing and how to you know
2:34
when you're in behind bars how to
2:36
best function within that This
2:39
guy did time himself, and I'm like oh my gosh.
2:41
That's perfect timing. We got to have this guy on
2:44
yeah fascinating interviews So you might want
2:46
to buckle in for this one because
2:48
it's it's it's unlike any other bad
2:50
crypto that we've done up into This
2:52
point I think especially the topic wise
2:54
so I think you're gonna enjoy this
2:57
little little convo with mr.. Sam Mangle
3:03
Sammy is Heading to
3:05
the clink It's
3:07
gonna be in the who's cow and
3:09
he's gonna be in a federal prison
3:12
And we have no idea what that's
3:14
gonna be like you know after seeing
3:16
as many TV shows and films as
3:19
we've seen we certainly have our suspicions
3:21
But we would thought we would talk
3:23
to somebody who not only can tell
3:25
us what it's gonna be like But
3:28
who's been there himself his name is
3:30
Sam Mangle, and he's a federal prison
3:32
consultant He helps white-collar offenders prepare for
3:35
incarceration, and he spent two years in
3:37
prison himself for doing something We're
3:39
gonna find out what but now he's
3:41
he's regularly on TV and in the
3:43
media He represents high-profile clients, and we're
3:45
gonna hear all about it today Sam
3:47
welcome to the bad crypto podcast Where
3:50
we will not be talking crypto at
3:52
all today Perfect nice
3:54
to meet both of you Excellent, so let's
3:56
start here. What did you do? What's your story?
3:58
How did you end up? doing
4:00
time. So 2016 it was April 7 o'clock
4:02
in the morning and I heard a knock
4:07
on my door. I just moved down
4:09
to South Florida and I look
4:11
outside opened up the door and there were 17 men
4:13
and women in the navy blue
4:16
FBI flag jackets holding guns
4:19
and I opened up the door and I thought,
4:21
God, you must be the wrong address. Maybe you're
4:23
looking for somebody else. They said, Sam
4:25
Mangle, I said yes, grabbed me by the shirt
4:27
collar, put me up against the wall with
4:29
a gun and handcuffed me.
4:31
I thought, you know, there's got to be
4:33
a mistake. No, no mistake. Toward
4:37
my house, my wife was in the shower at
4:39
the time, pulled her out of the shower and
4:41
took me up to the courthouse in West Palm
4:43
Beach where I was charged with one count of
4:45
wildfire. I owned a large
4:48
insurance brokerage entity through 2012.
4:52
My responsibility, I was the owner of the company, things
4:54
happened there that shouldn't have happened and
4:56
therefore I accept responsibility. Two
4:59
years later, I was in
5:01
front of a judge in Philadelphia after
5:03
being promised by my attorney, you're
5:06
getting probation. There is nothing wrong. You
5:08
are fine. First time offender. Remember
5:11
the the prosecutor set up
5:13
recommended probation and
5:15
the judge, my turn to talk, the judge
5:17
said, do you have anything to say? Yes,
5:20
your honor. I didn't, you know, foolish of
5:22
me. I didn't do it. This is silly. And yet I
5:24
accepted a plea. Absolutely
5:26
not. You know, I had no form
5:28
of contrition. I didn't accept responsibility. I
5:30
was far from humble and
5:32
I just remembered the judge and Philly looking down at me
5:34
and saying, Mr. Mangle, you clearly
5:37
don't understand what you did. You were no
5:39
different than any vagrant on the street. Twenty
5:42
minutes later said, I'm
5:44
doing something I rarely do. I'm
5:46
sentencing you to 60 months in federal prison.
5:49
I thought he said six and
5:51
I looked down at my attorney. Last time I looked at
5:54
my attorney ever and he wrote 60 on
5:56
a legal pad and circled it three or four times. Then
5:59
the judge said no one can
6:01
leave the room and
6:04
you're being remanded to the custody of the
6:06
Bureau of Prisons. As far
6:08
as I knew, you know minimum white collar offender,
6:10
you get time to turn yourself in and you
6:12
know I get to choose where I'm going. Absolutely
6:16
not. I turned to my wife and
6:18
I thought I was going to be away for four years and two months.
6:20
85% rule, serve
6:22
85% of the time in
6:24
federal prison. Marshals came,
6:26
took off my cufflinks, my belt, my
6:29
wallet, my shoelaces, shackled
6:32
me and walked me to the bowels of
6:34
the Philadelphia Detention Center. And
6:36
this is where I can kind of understand
6:39
where Sam Bankman Fried is going
6:41
through right now and where he's been.
6:43
And I remember after spending an
6:45
hour in a
6:48
hole with 19 other people that
6:50
were just taken off the street, some
6:52
were clearly strong island drugs. It's a
6:54
federal facility going up
6:56
to my floor and
6:58
you know carrying my bedroll and
7:01
a guard said to me, that's
7:03
your cell. It's a real cell with a
7:05
door just behind you. And
7:07
there was a young fellow in there with
7:09
two teardrops on his eyes and
7:12
he looked at me
7:14
and the first thought he said you know are
7:16
you a child offender? Because no
7:18
white collar, white small
7:20
Jewish guy gets thrown into federal prison
7:22
or remands in the custody. Highly unusual.
7:26
And I thought you know I'm gonna die
7:28
right here. And we're sitting
7:30
down at the 30 minutes somehow he
7:33
found out I was not a child
7:35
offender. I didn't know that people in
7:38
detention centers and jails have phones and
7:40
iPads. And he
7:42
said to me 30 minutes later you
7:44
know I never met a Jew before. And
7:47
the only thing I could think of saying was that's
7:49
funny I never met a gang member before. And
7:52
I couldn't stop the words from coming out of my mouth
7:54
and I thought for sure that's it I'm gonna die on
7:57
this spot. And
8:00
all of a sudden he smiled, his gold teeth are
8:02
showing, and he said, we're going to
8:04
get along just fine. Six
8:06
weeks later, and again, I'm in the pillar
8:08
of the detention center, which is the worst
8:11
of the worst. It's where Sam Bankman Fried
8:13
is. I've got clients who know him in
8:15
the Brooklyn MCC. Six
8:18
weeks later, I was told to pack up, didn't
8:21
know where I was going, put me on a bus. Two
8:24
weeks later, I showed up at the camp in Miami, where
8:26
this was a camp. I
8:29
thought I was going to begin with, and
8:32
I was out in 21 months. So 60-month sentence,
8:35
out in 21. Could
8:37
have been worse, but I've learned a
8:39
heck of a lot. And now
8:42
I use that experience and
8:44
understanding of a horribly punitive
8:46
system to help people
8:49
get through it. And it's
8:51
a terrible system. I
8:54
tell all of my clients, and I
8:56
would tell this to Sam Bankman Fried,
8:58
probably CZ as well, who's going to
9:00
be going through this. You're
9:03
going to be OK. You're not going to Oz. You're
9:06
going to a low security facility, not
9:08
a camp yet. But as
9:11
long as you follow certain protocols and everything,
9:14
you will get through it. So that's
9:16
my experience. That's
9:19
fascinating, Sam, going through that whole
9:21
experience. Because for one, 17 FBI
9:23
agents knocking on your door. For
9:25
one, that's going to make you
9:27
go, what the? What's going on
9:29
here? Oh, damn. And now
9:31
you're booked, and now you're going down the
9:33
river and all. And then I could just
9:35
imagine how pissed off you probably were
9:38
sitting in court, and you said you were
9:40
less than humble. I can imagine you probably
9:42
wasn't the most polite to the judge, which
9:44
is understandable in a scenario like that. And
9:46
judge is like, oh, really? You're going to
9:48
go this route, then? Well, guess what? I'm
9:51
going to do something I don't normally do.
9:53
And you're going in there with Jimmy with
9:55
the two teardrops, which you saw the teardrop.
9:57
Isn't that like every teardrop is like you
9:59
murdered somebody? or something. It was actually his
10:01
name, I think Jimmy two teardrops. Well,
10:05
he was there 30 years to life, life sentence
10:07
for dealing fentanyl 30 years old. And what's interesting
10:09
is this fellow grew
10:11
up 15 miles from where I grew up in
10:13
South Jersey. And we never would have crossed paths,
10:16
except in prison. And
10:18
it's an interesting dichotomy of
10:21
two people that
10:23
you learn to get along with, you know, for
10:26
him, it was somewhat comfortable. You know, he was
10:28
given his three meals a day, he was safer
10:30
than all the streets, which is, you know, what
10:32
you see a lot these camps.
10:35
For me, it was scary.
10:37
And you learn real quickly, your P's and
10:39
Q's. And it helped me
10:42
when I finally got to the camp, where
10:44
the camp was much calmer, you
10:47
know, cancer community custody, God forbid, there's
10:49
a hurricane, and they need people to
10:51
put those sandbags in Miami, the
10:54
camp sends their inmates there. So
10:56
it's a different environment. For
11:00
example, sandbag three will never won't see that,
11:03
probably for the better part, at least seven years,
11:06
while he makes his way through the system. So
11:09
what does describe, you know, when you're you're
11:11
there in the cage, so to speak, what's
11:14
what's it look like in this low
11:16
security white collar, it's not a country
11:19
club. They don't feed
11:21
you slop. It's not Shawshank Redemption,
11:23
right? What you know,
11:25
give us a day in the life of
11:29
So where he is now in the detention
11:31
center is the worst other than transit. And
11:33
I tell people for him to get and I'm
11:35
guessing this is a guess he's going to go
11:38
to lompoc low spell
11:41
that it will. L O M
11:43
P O C lompoc. It's just
11:45
like Central California for
11:47
him to get from New York where he is
11:49
now to lompoc. I'm guessing will take
11:51
him to better part of six weeks. Diesel
11:54
therapy. Diesel therapy is where they put you
11:56
on a bus your shackled legs and arm
11:59
irons in a in
12:01
a jumpsuit, where
12:03
you make multiple stops. So probably
12:05
from Brooklyn, where he's locked up,
12:09
right, he was locked up from usually
12:11
9.30 at night till
12:14
6 in the morning, closed behind the door. The
12:17
next stop might be Philadelphia Federal Detention
12:20
Center, because the BOP doesn't do anything
12:22
efficiently. You leapfrog.
12:25
From Philadelphia, they'll probably put him on
12:27
another bus, probably in Philadelphia for a
12:29
couple weeks. Go to Harrisburg, where they
12:31
put you on a plane to Oklahoma.
12:33
Oklahoma Transfer Center is the largest transfer
12:35
center for inmates in the country. It
12:38
actually sits at the edge of a
12:40
runway. He'll
12:42
be there with all sorts of folks that
12:44
are going throughout the country, probably for a
12:46
couple weeks. But they probably will then transfer
12:48
him to Perof, Nevada. And ultimately, he will
12:51
be bused into Lompoc, maybe
12:53
six to eight weeks. It is miserable.
12:55
You never know when you're moving, or you're
12:57
moving to highly uncomfortable.
13:01
Once he gets to Lompoc, so certain
13:03
low security facilities, the older ones, and I
13:05
don't believe Lompoc is one of these, still
13:08
have cells. And the cells are
13:10
not like what you see in the background of your
13:12
screens. There's a metal door with
13:14
a little slit and a
13:16
place where you can serve food if you're on
13:18
lockdown. Other than that, two
13:20
men in a cell, a little stainless
13:22
steel toilet with a top that is used
13:24
for washing your face and hands.
13:27
Usually, you can do three flushes per
13:29
hour, and a
13:31
little locker and a place to
13:33
sit. Maybe it's six
13:35
feet wide by 15 feet long with
13:38
a little slit of a window. Most
13:41
low security facilities are not like
13:43
that anymore. Most are what's
13:45
called open pods. So in an
13:47
open pod, you'll typically
13:49
see a four foot high
13:52
cinder block walls separating usually
13:54
six to eight bunk beds in
13:57
that pod, where there are
13:59
no barbed beds. or cell
14:01
doors, you can actually leave the
14:03
pod to go to the bathroom or showers. It's
14:06
a kitchen area, a little
14:08
rec area during the day in the televisions.
14:10
So if he does go
14:12
there and not to an older facility,
14:15
chances are he will
14:17
have that type of situation. I
14:19
was just doing some research to see
14:22
who showed up and Lori Loughlin showed
14:25
up, I guess her husband spent time
14:27
in Lompoc. Yeah. Or
14:29
that college tuition fraud thing.
14:33
Funny, the first case I got, I
14:35
used to work for a different firm
14:37
and when I first came out of
14:39
the camp in Miami, the firm
14:41
asked me would I be willing to speak to him
14:43
because I was the most recent getting him into prison.
14:45
I remember the first question he asked me, which I
14:47
felt was strange was, am I going
14:50
to be able to drink once I get the supervised release? Which
14:52
is a really strange question for somebody going
14:54
into prison to be concerned with. All
14:57
the folks in the college tuition scandal
14:59
went to camps. So
15:02
a camp is different. Eventually,
15:04
Camp Bankford 3 will get to a
15:06
camp, but you have
15:09
to have 10 years, roughly or
15:11
less, remaining on your sentence to
15:13
be camp eligible. So
15:15
camps are usually very wide open. They
15:18
might be small, like almost dormitory
15:20
size rooms, no door, two
15:23
to four guys in there or smaller pods.
15:26
But it's going to be quite a few years before he gets there.
15:29
I can tell you about Lompoc. I have a number
15:31
of clients at the low there. I send a lot
15:34
of clients by design today. Most
15:36
of my foreign nationals. So
15:39
if you're a white collar offender, that's
15:41
a non-US citizen, you can't go to
15:43
a camp because at the end of
15:45
your sentence, IECZ,
15:48
if he is sentenced to prison, he's not
15:50
camp eligible, which means he's going to have
15:52
to go to a low because typically they place an
15:54
ice container on you and then you're
15:56
deported at the end of your sentence. So
15:59
Lompoc, How does one of the better
16:01
lows. As if they are
16:04
Danbury of east coast but again.
16:07
It's regulated, so while he is allowed
16:09
out at least six in the morning
16:11
to nine thirty at night, Abdulla.
16:14
Four o'clock stand up camp during the
16:16
week. Stand by a bad show your
16:18
I d on this controlled movement of
16:20
those. Which. Means you can't
16:22
move from your door. To.
16:25
Rak were to the library or
16:27
to the the chow hall. other
16:29
than ten before the hour until
16:31
the our ten minutes to move.
16:33
If you're caught in that ten
16:35
minutes someplace else you have to
16:37
stay there until the next control
16:39
move. So. He
16:42
is that there is great a
16:44
restriction are in a low and
16:46
he's gonna need some. Interesting
16:48
people. He blows. I.
16:51
Did you have a do house? a
16:53
Sex offenders. They. Do housed
16:55
on violent individuals that might have
16:57
moved down through the system from
17:00
high to through a medium to
17:02
allow. Go. Never make it
17:04
to a camp, but you'll
17:06
end up serving a list
17:08
once years of their sentence.
17:10
Ala Lompoc Terminal Iowans it's
17:12
in Los Angeles are demographically
17:14
more challenge than certain other
17:16
camps, so they have a
17:18
certain percentage of. On
17:21
Jane's not necessarily
17:23
violence, but. You
17:25
find that people tend to click. got a
17:28
lot more. In. That situation than you
17:30
would it a kid. And he's
17:32
gonna have to figure out how to do it. Yeah,
17:34
it's it's It's interesting because I
17:36
look at this and I say
17:39
okay, Sam Bagman fried He scammed
17:41
When you look at what he
17:43
did. Billions of dollars, right? He.
17:45
Also, follow some of that back some
17:48
very powerful political people, right? So I
17:50
was looking at is like while he's
17:52
probably not going to get much of
17:55
a sentence realistically before all this stuff
17:57
went down, The. knowing how to his
17:59
mother and his father were sort of tied in
18:01
to what was kind of going on.
18:03
Now you can see, if you dive down
18:06
the rabbit hole, you can see there's some stuff going
18:08
on that the parents sort of propped him up. And
18:10
so he's almost like the fall guy. And
18:12
so I would be curious about
18:15
anything that's going to happen to
18:17
his parents. But aside from that,
18:19
I look at Sam Bangman Free
18:21
got 25 years, Ross Ulbrich got
18:23
two life sentences plus 40 years.
18:26
And so like, what's the method to the
18:29
madness on how these things are even how
18:31
the sentences come down on these folks? Ultimately,
18:34
it's up to the judge. And I tell
18:37
people federal judge is truly a judge during
18:39
execution. They're appointed for life. They don't have
18:41
to make excuses, just like my judge sentenced
18:43
me to five times greater than my guidelines.
18:48
Judge Kaplan is known for
18:50
being a more compassionate federal
18:52
judge. He's an older, certainly
18:54
very established federal judge in
18:57
New York. And I
18:59
believe in this case, he
19:01
felt that and I know people that sat in
19:04
during the sentencing, that
19:06
you have a young man that has this whole future ahead
19:08
of him. And he didn't want to
19:10
punish him for life. So he's
19:12
going to be in prison for the next 17 or 18 years. And
19:16
you can explain why it's going to be that amount of time and
19:18
not 25. But that's
19:20
a long time for a young man. And
19:24
I think that at some point,
19:26
a judge, a fair judge has
19:28
to decide what
19:30
is the appropriate punishment for
19:33
an individual that is 31, 32 years old, that has
19:35
their whole life ahead of
19:38
them, but still got,
19:41
you know, was charged and found guilty of
19:43
what, $11 billion of fraud. So
19:47
there is a line that
19:49
a federal judge walks between being overly
19:51
punitive and harsh and being fair. He
19:56
won't, same as if he won't get out until he's probably 50. And
19:59
even when he's 50, he's not 50. out. In
20:01
the BOP there's in custody and out custody
20:03
so even when he's out he's still going
20:06
to be probably for about 18 months under
20:09
the tutelage of the Bureau of Prisons whether
20:11
it's in a halfway house which is not
20:13
pleasant or on home confinement with a monitor
20:15
around his leg he's going
20:17
to still be in there for a period of
20:19
time and I'm guessing 18 maybe 24 months out
20:22
custody you know and he's going
20:24
to be in his 50s so and he's forever
20:27
going to have to report to supervise
20:29
your lease and then
20:31
probably three years and after that for 20
20:34
years he's covered under financial
20:36
litigation unit so he's
20:38
going to be reporting and under
20:40
somebody's thumb probably for the rest of his life. Yeah
20:44
I guess stories now we're saying
20:46
that he's feeling remorse now
20:48
for his actions but he's also said he
20:51
didn't believe that what he was doing was
20:54
illegal and you know
20:56
maybe just bad advice so how does
21:01
somebody cope with you know what one
21:03
moment you have your freedom and
21:05
the next you don't and
21:08
you know that you don't hit in your case
21:11
you're like okay it's gonna be a couple
21:13
years I can probably figure out how to
21:15
cope with this although days go on and
21:17
on but when you're gonna be in there
21:19
for a decade or more what do
21:21
you what do you do how do you mentally rearrange
21:25
how you think so that you
21:27
can survive and maybe thrive. You
21:31
want to be as productive as possible when
21:33
you're in a situation which is not meant
21:36
to provide opportunity for you or activities or
21:39
structure you want to make yourself as
21:41
productive as possible so as an example
21:43
where I was in Miami the only
21:45
person that I felt close to and
21:47
talked to and walked with every night
21:49
was Peter Madoff Bernie's brother a
21:52
couple years older than me but a
21:54
fascinating fellow and inmates can
21:56
teach classes at night the cold century they
21:58
can teach classes to other inmates So
22:00
he might have taught business law or
22:02
physicians might have taught help from that
22:04
over 50 or yoga I
22:06
think this is an opportunity for him
22:08
to teach other inmates what
22:11
he knows about crypto and about Finance
22:14
and put his knowledge to
22:17
use not only to benefit other inmates but
22:20
to keep himself out of trouble and I
22:22
say that because He's
22:24
going to encounter a lot of challenges Because
22:27
he's going to be in a low or
22:29
a camp which I think are
22:31
going to be putting him at risk And
22:34
due to him having you
22:36
know his own personal challenges.
22:39
I think he's going to be more susceptible And
22:42
I worry that that's going to get
22:44
him either more time in
22:46
prison not additional necessary charges But
22:48
losing certain good times and and
22:50
and credits but could get him
22:52
transferred to a higher level Because
22:55
the nature of a low and
22:57
a minimum are it's a wide
22:59
open environment He's going
23:01
to see cell phones everywhere. He's
23:04
going to see iPads everywhere look
23:06
for drugs. I Understand
23:09
that he's right now starved for the internet
23:11
and communication That
23:15
he can't have where he is. Although I have
23:17
another client That's currently where he is now and
23:19
he calls me every day from to sell for
23:22
which is mind boggling to me But
23:25
in a low, you know, I remember in the camp
23:27
There were 80 beds in my dorm at
23:29
night when I used to walk up and back, you
23:31
know to the bathroom It looked like a lit up
23:33
Christmas tree 50 guys had cell phones and iPads. So
23:36
he's going to see that and Knowing
23:39
that that he might not have a
23:41
discipline certainly As time
23:44
goes on to say no or to say,
23:46
you know The guy's sleeping above his on
23:48
his iPad one night and face timing his
23:50
loved ones or surfing the internet or whatever
23:52
he's doing I think same as he's
23:54
gonna have a tough time saying
23:56
no or distancing
23:58
itself from that So to be clear,
24:01
that's part of his sentence. No technology is
24:03
that. Well, wouldn't be part of
24:05
the sentence because you don't expect there to be
24:08
technology in federal prison. Right. Right.
24:10
You know, they're not
24:12
going to say you can't have something that then it
24:15
would force them to acknowledge is already
24:17
there and they have a problem. Yeah. Well,
24:19
everybody's like 50 people. You're in a
24:22
room with 80 people and 50 of them have a cell phone.
24:24
It wouldn't seem like it would be too
24:26
hard to like kick off wifi or to
24:28
have one of those wifi or cell phone
24:30
blockers just so the internet couldn't get out.
24:33
I know I go to, you go to
24:35
a school sometimes and they shut it off.
24:37
Why wouldn't they shut it off at a
24:39
prison? That doesn't make any sense logically. Unions,
24:42
federal guards, uh, federal unions from FIBB,
24:44
because if they turn it off for
24:46
the, the inmates, it would also turn
24:48
it down because of the proximity of
24:50
everybody for the guards and the staff.
24:52
So the union say no blockers.
24:55
That's a well-known issue within.
24:58
But why are they allowed to have phones
25:00
at all? Not allowed to have, but again,
25:02
so my example in a camp, my
25:04
camp was right on the main road, my first Friday night
25:06
of the camp, a guy came up to me and said,
25:09
Hey, Mangle, I'm going out for dinner tonight. What
25:11
do you want? We
25:13
just had dinner two hours ago. It
25:15
said Mangle. And I was afraid because it's
25:17
a seven foot two really built well guide
25:19
tattoos everywhere, uh, had gold teeth
25:21
and I didn't want to insult them. He
25:24
said, no, Mangle is Friday night. I'm going out
25:26
for ribs and chicken, Chinese or
25:28
burger game. And so how do I
25:30
pay you? And he said, no, have, have
25:32
your baby mama sent it to my baby mama. I
25:34
didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that
25:36
was. So I had to ask the guy above me,
25:38
what the heck's a baby mama? I learned that. So
25:41
he, I said, all right, get me some
25:43
chicken fried rice. Sure enough, two hours later,
25:45
I see the seven foot two, you know, fellow coming
25:47
in back into the unit carrying
25:49
a mesh laundry bag, five pies of
25:52
pizza. He came over. Oh, and he asked
25:54
me what I wanted to drink. I said, no, it
25:56
was soda. Mangle it's a Friday night. It's beer back
25:58
in Clovace. I say, come
26:01
on. So he got bad for
26:03
me. I didn't want anything to drink. He brought
26:05
me two Krispy Kreme donuts. So camps, many
26:07
camps don't have fences around them. You want to leave, you
26:10
leave. You're
26:12
a fugitive if you get caught. In
26:14
Lowe's, there are really no walls.
26:17
People throw things over the fences. Unfortunately,
26:19
guards bring things in. And drones. Drones
26:22
are constantly dropping things down into
26:24
camp yards. Wow.
26:27
Well, at least that 7-foot-2 guy, when you
26:29
asked what he wanted, didn't say, well, you
26:31
sure got a pretty mouth for it. And
26:35
I was afraid to insult him because I was afraid
26:37
I was going to get stabbed. It's my first Friday
26:39
night there. And this guy said, maybe he's setting me
26:41
up. But when he came back
26:43
afterwards and he handed me my quart of
26:45
rice and he handed me a little brown paper bag
26:48
and I said, what's in the bag? He
26:50
said, Mangle, you got nothing to drink. I felt bad. I
26:52
got you two Krispy Kreme donuts. All
26:54
right. I'm going to be just fine.
26:56
Man, that's crazy. So we all
26:58
know prison is very profitable. There's
27:02
a private prison system. And so while
27:04
you were talking, I was sort of
27:06
going, wait a second. So we have
27:08
these judges that are on the seat
27:11
for life, dishing out
27:14
penalties to people at their own
27:16
discretion, essentially. And
27:19
what's to stop them from
27:21
working with private prisons and
27:24
getting their own? If it's on the down low, if they don't
27:26
know, judge, they're
27:28
unfireable. Most people in federal
27:30
government are unfireable, really. You
27:34
get like a permanent tenure and
27:36
you're there forever unless you want
27:38
to walk away. And so I
27:40
think prison, there needs to be
27:42
some reform with it because prison
27:44
is so profitable. And so have
27:46
you noticed any discrepancies in maybe
27:48
how some judges are doing
27:50
stuff or whatever? Because it seems to me
27:52
like that could be a very big
27:54
problem because I don't like private prisons
27:57
anyway. And then when they...
27:59
guys are staying on for as long as they are,
28:02
then that seems like that could be a recipe for
28:04
corruption. So they can make a little extra money. So
28:07
let me first explain there are no private prisons
28:09
in the federal system anymore. They did away with
28:11
those maybe four or five years ago. Okay, in
28:13
Miami, I was with federal systems. Okay, okay.
28:17
In Miami, I was with a
28:19
former judge in Pennsylvania, that did
28:21
exactly what you're saying he was
28:23
sentencing minors children to these private
28:25
facilities, and getting kickbacks from
28:27
the facilities. He got a 22 year
28:30
sentence. So the state system
28:32
has private facilities, the federal system
28:34
does not also, while
28:36
a judge can recommend where a
28:38
defendant goes to serve their time.
28:41
Ultimately, it's up to Grand Prairie, the
28:43
Bureau of Prisons, to designate that person
28:45
based upon a number of different factors.
28:49
Distance from home, the length of the sentence,
28:51
what programs are eligible for. You know, it's
28:53
something we help with is designation. So
28:57
they definitely have
28:59
a Chinese wall between a judge and
29:01
what they can do in the
29:04
federal system, and where the BOP takes over.
29:06
The profit for all that in
29:09
the federal system is internal. So
29:12
the inmates make the profit
29:14
on the contraband. And
29:19
the currency, which Sam Bankman Free is going to learn
29:21
real fast, our stamps and
29:23
packets of tuna, or packets of mackerel.
29:26
You know, things are traded internally. If
29:29
you want somebody to do his
29:31
laundry or make his bed or, you
29:33
know, a cook for him, because
29:36
these are all things that happen in
29:38
lower security facilities, you have
29:40
to pay them. And how do
29:42
you pay them? Internally, with currency,
29:44
you know, stamps and packages of
29:46
tuna fish and mackerel. So
29:49
when their parents is going to put money on
29:51
his books or whatever, right, then he's going to
29:53
go to the store or whatever
29:55
it's called, and they're going to buy he's
29:57
going to buy these things and use utilize
30:00
those as ways to barter. The
30:02
barter system coming back full. He
30:04
should take Bitcoin. That would
30:06
be the thing you do. He should take
30:08
the STX tokens. Is
30:12
there a prohibition from doing any
30:14
type of enterprise? Not
30:17
enterprise within the prison, selling to
30:19
inmates, but to build a business
30:21
that can be
30:24
growing in the real world. You're
30:27
not permitted to conduct business while you're
30:29
inside. You're supposed to be rehabilitating yourself.
30:31
Do people run businesses in the inside? Absolutely.
30:34
Again, I work with CEOs and people
30:36
that have ongoing businesses that were in
30:38
for one thing, but they have a
30:40
business to go back to. They
30:42
run their business. They oversee it in a
30:44
way which doesn't
30:47
necessarily run afoul of
30:49
the system. He can create a
30:51
business. I guarantee there are going to be more
30:53
people coming up to him saying, Sam, look at
30:55
my business plan. He's going to
30:57
have a line of inmates that are going to say, what do
30:59
you think of this business plan or this business plan? He's
31:02
going to get a book deal too. Guaranteed
31:04
he's writing his book while he's
31:06
in prison. He'll probably get millions
31:09
for that from somebody, some publishing house.
31:11
It's going to be probably seized for restitution. Any
31:14
proceeds will probably be taken. The
31:16
other thing is, and this is
31:18
an interesting nuance for people that
31:20
other inmates suspect of having a
31:22
pile of money hidden. I saw
31:24
this with Peter Madoff. Inmates
31:28
that are very successful
31:30
and people
31:33
think have money stashed away somewhere. Other
31:36
inmates will try to give
31:40
them money in an
31:42
extorting way. Not
31:46
necessarily violence, but they're going to
31:49
think there's a pot of gold that he has out there. They
31:51
think they're getting out five years before him and they're going to
31:53
find that pot of gold. Can you do
31:55
a podcast from within prison walls? A prison
31:58
cast? I hope so. have
32:00
another client, as I mentioned to you,
32:02
that is trying to arrange a interview
32:05
now from prison.
32:07
The problem is, unless you get
32:09
approval from the warden, and that can be done
32:11
in the warden's office, they're
32:14
very security conscious. They won't allow
32:16
cameras into a federal prison like to do
32:18
in state prisons. He can certainly
32:20
use the prison phone, you're allowed 15 minutes per call.
32:23
You can use that 15 minutes to call
32:25
into a show and talk. He has
32:27
to be careful what he says, because it
32:29
is subject to being monitored. He wasn't careful
32:31
at all what he was saying. He was
32:33
tweeting shit. Like I was like, dude, have
32:35
you talked? Have you talked to your counselor
32:37
about things like this? That's what's so weird.
32:39
And the answer, Joel would be if you're
32:41
in the camp and you're in a pod,
32:43
it would be a podcast. So they
32:45
would still do that. Totally. Check your signal.
32:47
I just sent them I just sent a message
32:49
over. And we can share this
32:52
on screen here. So FTX executives, they
32:54
have settled this fraud lawsuit
32:56
now, right? So we got Gary Wang,
32:58
the FTX co founder. And then you
33:01
got Carolyn Ellison, the former CEO of
33:03
Alameda. They have basically
33:05
it looks like they have at
33:07
least they have done
33:10
something here to settle some stuff. So
33:13
does it look like maybe they might
33:15
be out of the out
33:17
of the woods as far as as them
33:19
potentially go into prison? Because it seemed to me like
33:21
more than just more than just sbf
33:24
should probably be punished for this. Look at
33:26
the settlement amount, Trev 1.35 million. That's the
33:29
settlement. Yeah. And action
33:31
lawsuit. Tiny. Yeah. Yeah.
33:33
Here's the analogy I use. You
33:35
walk into a bank and you rob them. Now
33:38
or later, you realize rob them and they put the police
33:41
put out an APB and you heard your name mentioned
33:43
on the radio or on television, you decide you want to
33:45
return the money. You are
33:47
still being charged for Robert. So
33:51
while I can't predict what's going to happen
33:53
to the co defendants in the case, they
33:55
certainly I know Carolyn Ellison did cooperate. I
33:57
believe they will get
33:59
downward departures. significant downward departures.
34:02
I do not believe they will, in my opinion,
34:04
they will avoid prison. Just
34:07
due to the nature
34:09
of the charges and the players
34:11
involved, and the fact is extremely high
34:13
profile, but they will get downward departures.
34:17
Speaking of high profile, before we
34:19
started recording, you mentioned Peter Navarro,
34:22
who was in the Trump
34:24
administration. What's your connection to
34:26
him and he's off to
34:28
prison now, right? Yeah, so actually
34:30
I was standing directly to, where
34:33
he's pointing during that press interview. I
34:35
was Peter's consultant, I still am Peter's
34:37
consultant. I took him down
34:40
to surrender to Camp Miami. He
34:42
and I speak regularly. I'm
34:45
trying to help him navigate the
34:47
next, or the total 90 days he'll be there. And
34:52
somewhat atypical surrender, I have to admit.
34:54
When I was dropped off to the
34:56
Camp Miami, I was in shackles and
34:58
I spent the first two nights in the show because
35:01
they didn't have my paperwork. When
35:03
we dropped Peter off, he was met by
35:05
prison staff and
35:07
really walked through the system in
35:10
a much more civil manner. So
35:13
I think his experience
35:15
is dramatically different than mine and will
35:17
be dramatically different than
35:19
Sam Beckman-Fleeves. It's
35:21
fascinating how the system, I
35:25
talk to a lot of people and they
35:27
just don't trust the system anymore. They don't
35:29
think it works for them. They can see
35:31
that there's the justice system and there's the
35:33
just us system. Like some people create, like
35:35
for example, Sam, like
35:37
let's just go in and say, you
35:40
know, like, you know, JP Morgan or
35:42
something, they do some crazy, they
35:44
basically do some stuff, manipulate markets and they make
35:46
billions of dollars and then they have to pay
35:48
a fine of like a couple
35:50
hundred, a couple hundred million dollars, right?
35:53
You're like, well, dude, that's the cost of
35:55
doing business for them at a certain point,
35:57
right? And it's like, if nobody, like nobody
35:59
really, got in trouble for the 2008
36:01
collapse of all the stuff. Nobody really got
36:03
in trouble for that. You
36:06
start seeing political people who are on one
36:08
side not getting anything happen to them, and
36:10
then you can see people who are just
36:12
kind of like Peter Navarro, who's just like,
36:14
oh, he's associated with
36:17
this guy. So boom, they're going to
36:19
throw the book at him. It's just
36:21
so if you just step back and
36:23
you look at this, and let's just
36:25
say you're not even American, you look
36:27
at this and you go, wow, this
36:30
is very clearly, they're politically prosecuting political
36:32
opponents at this point. And
36:34
it's not even remotely fair.
36:36
Right. So as somebody who
36:39
does consulting, and you're just helping people sort
36:41
of, you got to deal with this, you
36:43
got to deal with that. How does the
36:45
system change? Like what kind of solutions could
36:47
we have to make it not be shitty
36:49
for everyone who's not agreeing with the other
36:51
side? It's weird. So I
36:53
often ask the question by people getting
36:55
ready to be sentenced, and they owe money
36:57
to have victims. And the logic is it was
37:00
my logic as well. Why
37:02
would the judge want to put me
37:04
behind bars and prevent me from earning
37:06
a living to repay my victims? Wouldn't
37:08
it be better for me to be
37:10
earning a living, repaying my victims even
37:12
quicker, as opposed to being a burden
37:14
of the taxpayer at $180
37:17
a day to keep me there? Wouldn't it
37:19
make sense for me, I'm a
37:21
convicted felon, I will always have that, that's
37:24
my scarlet letter. But wouldn't it
37:26
be better for me to now, I don't want
37:28
to use the term debtor's prison, but wouldn't it
37:30
be better for me to repay my victims? I
37:33
work with a ton of foreign nationals. And
37:35
one of the first things that we discuss is
37:39
treat or transfer. Because what is
37:41
a charge here, a crime here,
37:43
or a sentence here, is not
37:45
anywhere close to what they would
37:47
have encountered in their country. Canada,
37:49
the UK, Israel, India, South
37:51
Korea. So do they
37:53
have a fair justice system when it comes
37:55
to punishment? Probably. And
37:57
that's why their goal is to get out
38:00
of the United States system as quickly as possible
38:02
to go back to their home country. But
38:05
I think, you know, I
38:07
only represent white collar individuals. I don't
38:09
represent sex offenders or violent criminals. And
38:12
that's my choice. But if
38:15
I had a choice as a victim of
38:17
Sam Bankman free or any
38:20
of my clients, and the judge
38:22
would say to me, do you
38:24
want me to send them to prison for five years or 20
38:26
years, or you lost $100,000? If
38:30
he's out, you might be able to recoup 25,000 of
38:32
that over the next five years. Or
38:35
how, what would you rather do? And
38:37
yes, emotions are stirred up
38:40
with victims. Everybody wants, you
38:42
know, some form
38:44
of punishment. But when you
38:46
start thinking about it, is it better
38:49
to get some of your money back that
38:51
you lost? Or how happy are you that
38:53
the guy's going to be in prison for 17 or 18 more years?
38:56
You're not going to see anything. And
38:58
okay, you got your pound of fresh. But
39:01
you're, you know, you're still out of money. Yeah.
39:04
When people start to think along those
39:06
lines, I think that, you
39:08
know, you might see a different form
39:10
of punishment for
39:13
nonviolent white collar offenders,
39:16
maybe more non-custodial time where they can
39:18
be home and working and paying taxes
39:21
and being more productive to society. Just
39:23
not only is he not going to
39:25
pay back his victims, he's
39:27
costing the three of us $180 a day for
39:30
the next 17 years plus inflation.
39:34
Let me add this real quick, Joel. So
39:37
FTX had all these assets.
39:40
They've invested in all these startups, several of
39:42
which I think are probably going to pop
39:44
off as already a couple that are. They
39:47
had a shitload of Solana crypto tokens, some
39:49
of which they've just dumped into the market
39:51
at a substantial loss, but they made, they
39:54
sold it for like $7 billion. Why
39:57
is it that these, these
39:59
victims. don't get some restitution. It
40:01
seems to me that most of them
40:03
could probably be made whole over time.
40:06
Why not? Well,
40:10
again, I think, and I'm not gonna
40:12
answer for Joel, but I think it's
40:14
my understanding of the settlement, of the
40:17
collection that a lot of the
40:20
victims are going to receive a substantial
40:22
percentage, 50 or 70% of
40:24
what they invested, not the appreciated
40:26
value. I gotcha, yeah, okay. That's
40:29
the disparity. So, listen, if I put in
40:31
10 grand in 2015,
40:35
and that 10,000 is now worth 35,000, I
40:39
might get seven of that 10 back, or 10
40:41
of it back. That's what
40:43
happened with the Mt. Gox collab back in
40:45
the day. It's like, oh, you invested $200
40:48
and you bought three Bitcoin, but here's your $200 back. And
40:52
I'm like, I don't know, Bitcoin's worth it. What
40:54
are you doing? Yeah, wow, that's crazy, bro. So,
40:57
are Trump's people calling you
40:59
for consultation? I mean, there's so much going
41:01
on there. So,
41:03
is the rule of thumb,
41:05
unless the person's already been sentenced and given
41:07
me permission to talk and mention their name,
41:09
I don't. Suffice
41:12
it to say, I have, especially since
41:15
the interview I had with CNN and
41:17
with Mr. Navarro, I
41:20
have a substantial number of clients
41:22
now in that world. What
41:26
I really want to know is, can you get us
41:28
some Trump sneakers? If
41:31
he lives about 21 miles north of me,
41:33
and I'm an avid cyclist, so every Saturday,
41:35
Sunday morning I ride by and I go
41:37
right by Mar-a-Lago, occasionally I see his motorcade
41:39
pulling out when he goes to play golf.
41:43
It's only worth $18 million, apparently. Oh,
41:45
right, right. It's got the most
41:47
land of anywhere. And he's caddy
41:50
cornered, I think, to Ken Griffin,
41:52
whose property is, I
41:54
think, $200 million, and it's not built
41:56
yet. So, yeah, it's a
41:58
spectacular property. So this
42:00
whole thing that happened in New York
42:02
to him, like, you know, no victims
42:05
to this so-called crime, just your personal
42:07
opinion, obviously you're not a
42:10
federal judge or anything, but let's say
42:12
that he doesn't win the election
42:14
and he's still citizen Trump. Is
42:16
he ever going to do any
42:18
prison time? No, I actually wrote
42:20
a blog about this. In my opinion, first
42:22
of all, if you were to serve federal, I
42:24
can't talk state, although I think any governor would
42:26
commute a sentence. If he were to
42:29
be charged and sentenced, if I'm guilty
42:31
in a federal matter, I do
42:33
not believe the federal government, the Bureau
42:35
of Prisons, has the wherewithal
42:38
and manpower to properly
42:40
polish him in
42:42
a custodial environment other than maybe in
42:45
general's quarters on a military base where
42:47
technically he would still be, you know,
42:49
confined or a home confinement. Keep
42:51
in mind, I think he's given, what, 21
42:53
secret service agents around the clock who are
42:56
armed and that is guaranteed to him,
42:58
unless taken away, I don't see that happening.
43:01
A prison camp is a communal environment. You
43:03
know, I had 80 people in my dorm.
43:06
I watched it. They're going to devote a whole dorm
43:08
to Trump and his secret service. They're
43:11
not- They're walking around some, with
43:13
all of his, all of his
43:16
secret service guards and stuff and
43:18
everywhere you go. They're
43:21
tremendously understaffed. They're
43:23
tremendously understaffed. I mean, the BOP is
43:25
so understaffed right now and camps get
43:27
the least staffing because it requires
43:30
the least amount of people from a custodial
43:32
point of view. There's
43:35
no way that he would
43:38
be properly and safely housed in
43:40
prison. If if, and this
43:42
is an extreme, and I think it happened to
43:44
a vice president many, many
43:47
years ago, if, or a
43:49
secretary, if for some reason
43:51
they wanted to house him somewhere, they would put him
43:53
on a military base in a general's house where
43:56
technically he's in custody. I don't
43:58
see that happening. I think
44:00
it'd be a really bad precedent for that to happen. A
44:03
bad president for the president. So
44:06
Trev, any further questions about the
44:08
big house, the cooler, the coop,
44:10
the lockup? Sam, it's
44:12
Friday night. I'm going to go get you some chicken
44:14
fried rice. Would you like
44:16
wontons or would you like some crab bread goon?
44:19
It's going to be fabulous. I'll bring back some donuts
44:21
for you. I'm
44:24
telling you the best key lime
44:26
cheesecake I ever had was
44:29
imprisoned. These guys make it in
44:32
a microwave or to cook things, they use an
44:34
iron. Keep in mind you have to tell them
44:36
if you want your clothes ironed not to use
44:38
the same iron they use to make fajitas. Oh
44:41
my gosh. You know, as long as we're
44:43
on stories here as we close out, what's
44:45
the scariest
44:47
thing that happened? Well, in your
44:50
term and what was the funniest
44:52
thing that happened? Scariest thing
44:54
is I remember seeing a young kid overdose
44:58
on some kind of drug and
45:00
I remember they closed off the section. But he
45:03
was in the middle of the two units
45:05
and I saw him flopping around on the
45:07
ground turning blue. The staff was not permitted
45:09
to touch him. That's part of the union
45:11
rules. They called medical. By
45:13
the time medical got there, he had already done. That
45:16
was the scariest. The funniest thing was you
45:18
guys are familiar to dim sum restaurants. So
45:20
every Saturday and Sunday morning, the guys who
45:23
would cook in the dorm, because everything gets
45:25
stolen from the kitchen. Guys
45:27
used to come back into our dorm with
45:29
30 baked chickens in their clothes to sell
45:31
into the unit. So every Saturday and Sunday
45:34
morning, guys would walk around, they would make
45:37
egg sandwiches, bacon, lettuce, tomato.
45:39
They would make fajitas
45:41
or cheesecake or apple pie. Now, these
45:43
are things maybe either from stolen things
45:45
from the kitchen or commissary and they
45:47
would walk around the unit selling it.
45:49
And one guy would sell it for
45:51
five stamps. So in
45:53
that environment, and it'll be a number of
45:56
years before Sam sees that, you
45:58
just have to wonder. What
46:01
the hell is the federal government spending $100
46:03
a day housing
46:05
me there when I could have been
46:08
paying my taxes and paying my victims?
46:11
It's counterintuitive, and
46:14
that gets back to how
46:16
inefficient and ludicrous a
46:19
lot of our – that part of our justice system
46:21
is. I'm going to say this,
46:23
Sam, and for those of you who are
46:25
tuning in, the next episode is going to
46:27
be with the Nomad Capitalist, and you're going
46:30
to find out why the U.S. passport is
46:32
number 44 overall. And
46:34
I think it has to do with the
46:36
freedoms and how they've been taken away over
46:38
time and how – what, isn't America now
46:40
the most – there's most
46:42
prisoners in a country or a
46:44
percentage of people in prison
46:46
or something? Not
46:49
great. Not great. So you guys are going to want
46:51
to tune in to the next episode because it really
46:53
talks about some of this stuff. So we really appreciate
46:56
you coming on, Sam. This was very interesting. Thank
46:59
you. My first podcast was good. Thank you. sam-mangel.com,
47:02
you guys can go read
47:04
all about. He is the
47:06
federal prison consultant, the FPC.
47:09
And if you want a free consult, that is compassionate,
47:11
personal, and expert. Sami is the guy – I mean,
47:14
does that look like a guy who's done time? I
47:16
don't know. He doesn't look that hardened to me. And
47:18
when you put the – when you put the –
47:20
here to the chin, you know, you look
47:22
like the warden. You're like the warden. Thanks
47:28
again, Sam. Appreciate it. Thank
47:30
you both very much. Captivity,
47:34
internment, imprisonment, impoundment,
47:36
confinement, incarceration, and
47:40
bondage. Wait. I
47:42
guess it's still bondage. But all those
47:44
things is what Sam talked about today.
47:46
And that was really a fascinating talk.
47:49
The guys are very interesting. And there's
47:51
nothing like hearing from somebody who's actually
47:53
had the experience of What
47:56
can be expected if you get convicted
47:58
and are sent to –? One
48:00
of these Federal Prison Our prisons
48:02
App. I gotta say I
48:04
would love some energy lime pie
48:06
for a deal as nobody makes
48:08
it better than on a on
48:10
a on a Pokey. It's a
48:12
of iron. I gotta say no
48:15
I suspicious or filthy. Sorry dude
48:17
you gotta think I'll get him
48:19
out. I look at the the
48:21
sentence that Spf got in. I
48:23
immediately felt sar amelie. My first
48:25
thought was forty five years always
48:27
It's and Ross Ulbricht gods two
48:29
life sentences. Their sporty year I
48:31
was I I think maybe that's.
48:33
Even an understanding of how gripped
48:35
a word whenever they first started
48:37
like oh my god, Everyone using
48:39
crypto as terrorists writes itself. Hopefully
48:42
they can do a revisit on
48:44
on. Mister. Albrecht because
48:46
my goodness like the he
48:48
got screwed Bryant. Yep!
48:50
Wall is pouring I can get
48:53
pardoned by the current does I'll
48:55
president, so maybe me monarch governor
48:57
in California, either whatever. Yep!
49:00
I humanity is is corrupt and are
49:02
definitely needs redemption. Were in a lot
49:05
of trouble Gang so lucky a nose
49:07
clean, mind your own business and swear
49:09
that I say and what you said
49:11
die at the end of that talk
49:14
with Sam is very true. This next
49:16
interview with thought with Andrew Henderson have
49:18
no med capitalist is another winner. The
49:20
guy is just chock full of information
49:22
and we went an hour with him
49:25
and it's can be coming up next
49:27
week's episode number seven Twenty one. See
49:29
you want to make. Sure that your
49:31
subscriber fide an that you're automatically download
49:33
episode so that one will show up
49:36
on your device ready to put in
49:38
your ear holes. Yeah. Absolutely we
49:40
finish. This was a one on the recording
49:42
here with Sam alone. I finished by a
49:44
great hog with yes we hope We never
49:46
talk to your year but has a. very
49:51
true size the guy i enjoy them
49:53
and you're right i have with episode
50:00
So, let you continue to
50:03
say that. The
50:21
Bad Crypto Podcast is a production
50:23
of Bad Crypto LLC. The content
50:25
of the show, the videos, and
50:28
the website is provided for educational,
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not intended to be and does
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not constitute financial, investment, or trading
50:36
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50:38
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50:41
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50:43
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50:45
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50:49
the trading of Bitcoins and
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50:53
Anyone wishing to invest in any
50:56
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50:58
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51:00
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