0:00

Welcome

0:00

to the beat Amari Melber, and our top story

0:02

right now is important. The

0:04

mounting grave and possibly existential

0:07

threat to democracy. New Year's

0:09

not about rhetoric, though, that's also escalating,

0:11

but tangible plots to overturn elections,

0:14

incite vigilantes with conspiracy theories,

0:16

target attack and try to assassinate civilian

0:19

leaders all

0:20

out in the open.

0:22

Vacing these plots, people following the

0:24

law, do expect action.

0:27

Wouldn't you? Indivalents, arrests,

0:30

trials, convictions, convictions

0:32

when supported by evidence? It's all very

0:34

familiar right now with what we're

0:36

living through in America, but

0:38

the reporting that I'm mentioning

0:41

here is not only about America. Here's the news

0:43

seen over the weekend in Peru. Where

0:45

the capital featured a roiling debate

0:47

about this nation's democracy in

0:49

a response to a blatant coup attempt.

0:51

You see protesters and police

0:53

there, fires burning, clashes in the streets,

0:56

tear gas, all part of the fallout

0:58

from the country's leader making an extraordinary

1:00

response to his own looming

1:03

impeachment. Pedro

1:05

Castillo proclaimed that the government's

1:07

impeachment process was basically

1:10

a witch hunt. As he was facing

1:12

a repeated push to impeach him

1:14

over a legend for priorities. Not

1:16

only did he say he defied, but he proclaimed

1:18

he would seize dictatorial powers

1:20

to just eliminate and

1:23

dissolve congress,

1:25

the congress that, of course, was about to

1:27

impeach him again. Now, this

1:29

is hours before that planned impeachment vote.

1:32

On Thursday, he

1:34

went out and addressed the nation and just claimed

1:36

that he would have his own new emergency powers.

1:38

He declared a national curfew, and he

1:41

asserted that he had the power

1:43

supposedly to just temporarily

1:46

dissolve Congress.

1:49

i'll call you a thick don't say

1:51

anything less against as many this nice

1:55

, when i am bored elements in

1:57

congress or lot of boucher a vote

1:59

i'm going to be i dunno they made the exceptional

2:02

What

2:03

he's saying there was that

2:06

he would dictate those

2:08

measures. Word choice.

2:10

Many Peruvian saw it as a dictator

2:13

trying to dictate a coup. In

2:15

a nation that has faced real effective military

2:18

coups before, protests were swift

2:20

and Castillo supporters though were also

2:22

vocal as this all played out.

2:25

We

2:26

start with breaking news from Peru where president

2:28

Pedro Castillo says that he's dissolving

2:31

congress within just three hours

2:33

of the current president's attempt to overthrow

2:35

the government. The legislature overwhelmingly

2:37

voted to impeach president Castillo.

2:46

We're

2:52

here to defend the rule of law, democracy,

2:55

and to back the Republican's Congress.

2:58

right

3:07

Well,

3:08

that was just some of what the standoff looked like immediately.

3:10

The protests continue tonight and as

3:13

I mentioned. Here's what's different now.

3:15

Castillo is no longer in office, that

3:18

Congress was not dissolved. His

3:20

own cabinets swiftly resigned in protest

3:23

that impeachment he was trying to force all

3:25

went forward, a court in that

3:27

country declared his effort and invalid

3:29

maneuver. The coup failed. You

3:31

might be thinking, oh, it's a lot, Ari. I see where

3:33

you're going with this, but that's

3:35

not all. Peruvian authorities

3:38

charged Castillo with rebellion and conspiracy

3:41

They arrested him. He's now in

3:43

custody as you can see right there. The

3:45

government's reaction to this

3:47

Endighted rebellion from within, from the most

3:50

powerful official and government was to impeach

3:52

him, remove him, and swiftly arrest him as the headlines.

3:54

Show. The sheer

3:56

speed of that defense administration is

3:58

remarkable. Castillo woke up

4:00

Thursday as the president surrounded

4:02

by guards running the military,

4:05

and went to bed that same night

4:08

in police custody for

4:10

the failed coup. A

4:12

turnabout that seemed to stunned, the

4:14

president turned defended himself. One

4:17

headline put it, the president tried to dissolve.

4:19

Congress by day's end, he

4:21

was arrested. Quite

4:23

a fall. It's also

4:25

an ancient lesson. The harder

4:27

they come. The harder they

4:29

fall. One and all,

4:32

as Jimmy Cliff put in. This

4:34

speed of accountability matters because

4:36

Peru and nation with its own complexities

4:38

and divisions like any other,

4:41

did find immediate unity

4:43

against its would be

4:45

cooler.

4:47

And that is a matter of democracy because

4:49

it's separate from the question of that

4:51

politicians ideas or popularity.

4:54

Many of you have him as a liberal reformer.

4:57

But after the effort to end congress,

4:59

that impeachment vote in that nation

5:01

ran a hundred and one to six

5:04

I want to get too deep improving politics

5:06

here at the top of our netcast, but it's

5:08

fair I think to observe that Castillo's

5:10

potential political allies who might

5:12

agree with part of his ideological

5:14

agenda. They abandoned him just as

5:16

his own hand picked cabinet did

5:18

because of the coup. So

5:21

this all made for chaotic Thursday in Peru.

5:23

The fallout continues while on the same day.

5:25

In another country with a history of some of

5:27

the worst horrors of dictatorships

5:29

ever in world history, Germany

5:33

had its own big

5:35

story here. But today,

5:37

Germany has seen as a functioning democracy

5:39

and a strong US ally in Western Europe,

5:41

but it faced this organized coup plot so

5:44

massive that the government carried out

5:46

A DRAMATIC SERIES OF

5:48

RADES ON OVER one hundred LOCATIONS. Reporter:

5:50

IN

5:51

EARLY

5:52

MORNING RADES ACROSS GERMANY, THOUSANDS

5:54

OF POLICE OFFICERS at more than a hundred

5:57

locations, arrested twenty

5:59

five people.

5:59

Accusing them of trying to overthrow

6:02

the government in a coup Prosecutors

6:03

say the suspects had acquired weapons,

6:06

organized weapons training, and

6:08

intended to storm the German parliament

6:10

building. The number

6:11

of suss Bex has already risen to

6:13

more than fifty possible token

6:15

spiriters of the group allegedly

6:17

led by this man. Seventy one

6:19

year old prince Heinrich the

6:21

thirteenth of the House of Lloyds.

6:23

The German officials say was inspired

6:25

by American extremists and the storming

6:28

of the US capital nearly two years ago.

6:30

A right wing effort to fuse Europe's

6:32

ugly paths with right wing movements

6:34

against democracy in America, and

6:37

to topple this Western democracy.

6:41

The European continent's history

6:43

is very much alive here because those

6:45

coup plotters also rallied the

6:47

conspiracy theory that claims the

6:49

real Germany of the past read

6:53

Nazi Germany could

6:55

somehow be restored by elevating

6:57

this obscure prince who claimed a lineage to an

6:59

ancient family dating back to the night eleven hundreds,

7:01

I should say, dating back to the eleven hundreds,

7:03

It's just mentioned in that clip we showed, the

7:05

seventy one year old Heinrich the thirteenth.

7:08

He's described as pushing a radical French

7:10

ideology to reject this modern German state

7:12

and wants to reinstall the German monarchy.

7:16

And plotters thought that added some

7:18

claim to a legitimate or royal

7:20

rule. They were serious. It

7:22

does not. Heinrich is not

7:24

being reinstalled to any

7:27

powerful

7:27

Perch right now. He's

7:28

getting installed

7:31

in a jail cell. There

7:33

he was having his head put down like any

7:35

common Defendant,

7:39

taken away by police,

7:40

and handcuffs.

7:42

Authorities also rated German military

7:44

veterans accused of collaborating. You can

7:46

see and this is a country that does not allow

7:48

the same type of weaponry as America, but you

7:50

can see the

7:53

level of authorities, military,

7:55

and police weaponized police preparation

7:57

to deal with whatever they're gonna find on the other side

7:59

of these doors

8:01

and raids. There

8:03

are over twenty five arrests in that

8:05

German set of raids. So I'm telling you

8:07

about two coup plots in two different countries

8:09

on the same day. One

8:11

from inside administration, the other

8:13

from outside. And

8:15

these are countries that have faced

8:17

authoritarian failure

8:20

repression

8:21

before. I don't

8:22

think you need to be a German or Peruvian

8:25

exceptionalist. To

8:27

see how seriously and swiftly those governments

8:29

respond.

8:30

Swift arrests. No sign

8:32

that political elites were just automatically

8:34

spared. And you

8:36

say, okay, Ari, there's

8:38

a lot of things going on in the world all the

8:40

time. Why is this the top story in

8:42

American news broadcast? Because admittedly,

8:45

We don't do news about every other country

8:47

every night. A lot of news is

8:49

nationalized and you you watch

8:51

American MSNBC, you get a lot of American

8:53

news. Well, this is

8:55

American news in a way. Because

8:57

this is a glaring contrast what you just

8:59

saw to what's happening in this

9:01

country. Which talks so

9:03

much about being a leader on democracy,

9:05

which means defending it against

9:07

the criminals who would destroy it

9:09

and rob it and steal it and

9:11

impress you. But this is a

9:13

nation where an almost two

9:15

year investigation and

9:17

prosecution has led to

9:19

hundreds of arrests for the Trump fans who physically

9:21

stormed the capital who attacked police,

9:23

who brazenly and openly talked up,

9:25

assassinating politicians that

9:27

day, Republicans and Democrats alike,

9:29

Pence and Pelosi alike, as they

9:31

quite literally obstructed and delayed the counting of

9:33

the votes, one of several crimes committed,

9:36

including the now convicted crime of sedition

9:38

as well. So we know those arrests and

9:40

trials are happening. While the

9:42

political elites who hatch the plan,

9:45

to gather on January six, who urged

9:47

those now convicted criminals on,

9:49

knowing they were armed, none of them

9:51

have been indicted on election crimes

9:54

today. So there are two

9:56

categories here. And

9:59

legally the elites have been spared in

10:01

this country unlike other

10:03

places. When I report on these two

10:05

categories, I'm not adding an

10:07

observation to the legal

10:09

approach. I'm just quoting the Garland Justice

10:11

Department, which has

10:13

clearly marked these two lanes. So clearly,

10:15

in fact, there was actually a tell about this

10:17

division in the attorney general's recent

10:19

special counsel appoint where

10:21

he

10:21

named this

10:23

prosecutor independently oversee the

10:25

January sixth probe, but only part of it.

10:27

This didn't get a ton of attention at the time,

10:29

but it is right in the strike zone of what I'm

10:31

telling you about. That formal written

10:33

authorization by Garland and

10:35

Powering Special Counsel Smith to oversee the

10:37

coup probe actually reveals the

10:39

division that I'm referencing. Just

10:41

take

10:41

a look. It says

10:43

that Smith will investigate efforts to interfere

10:45

with the transfer of power in the January sixth

10:47

vote. Let's bullet one there.

10:49

And then it says it does not apply,

10:53

does not apply to prosecutions of individuals

10:55

physically present on the Capitol grounds

10:57

on January. Six. You see that

10:59

highlighted part? That's Merrick

11:01

Garland saying that there's

11:03

this other bucket but

11:07

counsel, special counsel, Smith,

11:09

will not prosecute people who are physically

11:11

present on the Capitol grounds. Now,

11:13

it's possible

11:15

that Smith will push for indictments of

11:17

those other elites. In other words,

11:19

he is not investigating the

11:21

people who are physically present. He's

11:23

only investing in the people who weren't, but might still

11:25

come in election crimes, aka the

11:28

people who said, hey, come to

11:30

Washington the sixth. Lawyers,

11:32

the Trump aides or Trump himself.

11:34

So if

11:37

in this country The DOJ

11:39

gets around two years later to doing what these other

11:41

countries did within days and actually

11:43

recommends the indictment of those elites, Garland will then

11:45

approve or deny that. And we'll know

11:47

if there's a disagreement there under the rules.

11:49

But this wider contrast

11:51

is the point. It didn't take

11:53

Germany or Peru two years to identify

11:55

and charge political elites involved

11:57

in public coup planning, in

11:59

Peru,

11:59

or

12:00

the evidence of coup planning in Germany,

12:02

much of it was secret. And

12:05

even if you put aside the

12:07

possibly intricate questions about whether

12:09

former president Trump now running for

12:11

office can be charged, know that

12:13

DOJ is investigating lawyers like John

12:15

Eastman because he

12:18

was publicly searched for his

12:20

phone. We know they're looking at their own

12:22

former DOJ official who

12:24

was a Trump Apolloologist within the DOJ

12:26

Jeffrey Clark. He was on record pushing to

12:28

abuse government power to sabotage the

12:30

January sixth counting. So while

12:32

some people do have a tendency in the

12:34

United States to look abroad

12:37

and see something different, the clear

12:39

abuse wall at home.

12:41

It's more of a mixed picture. How could we

12:43

ever

12:44

charge one of our own. Americans

12:46

don't do that, all that kind of American exceptionalism.

12:49

The news right now that I'm here to tell you about

12:51

is just facts. That

12:53

places like Germany have

12:56

busted up plots to track closely

12:58

with the tactics and convicted crimes

13:00

of the January sixth editionists. And

13:02

that political elites and leaders quite

13:04

publicly and brazenly trying to end democracy

13:07

are documented. The

13:09

difference comes, not so much in the

13:11

plots, We have them here, they

13:13

have them there.

13:15

In fact, it's well known in political science

13:17

that it can happen here. The difference

13:19

is in our nation's collective response.

13:21

AND I'M NOT SAYING I DON'T

13:23

THINK ANYONE IS DESTING SOME OTHER COUNTRY

13:25

OOTOMACALLY HANDELS THIS PERFECTLY OR SHOULD BE

13:27

COPED IN EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. But

13:29

rather how glaring the contrast is

13:31

that one ex leader faces immediate

13:33

trial for that failed coup.

13:35

And another is not only Scott free

13:37

but running to take power again,

13:40

having stoked a multiyear movement

13:42

built on that insurrectionist edition,

13:44

the big lie, and ending democracy.

13:47

So I don't think

13:49

this is news about

13:51

something happening over there.

13:53

It's happening here.

13:55

Now,

13:56

already. I'm telling

14:00

you, it's

14:01

serious. There

14:03

are experts

14:04

on authoritarianism who look at this contrast.

14:07

Professor Ruth Bend GEA explained recently,

14:09

although before the Thursday events I just told you

14:11

about that when an unsuccessful Koo has

14:13

targeted authoritarian leader abroad.

14:15

The conspirators are promptly

14:17

jailed or worse. In the US, the

14:19

party that conspired in the failed Koo remains

14:21

unrepentant. And its leader

14:23

far from fleeing the country. She's

14:26

talking about Trump is at the time

14:28

eyeing a run for the presidency.

14:32

It's really remarkable. The

14:35

thing about democracy is

14:37

it doesn't work by itself.

14:40

It is just a collection

14:42

of what people do and

14:44

what the government requires. You

14:47

go back far enough in our history books in this country,

14:49

we teach kids where this old

14:51

democracy. That doesn't

14:53

sound as accurate anymore if

14:55

you count women voting

14:57

or every human being voting.

15:00

We ain't that old democracy. And

15:02

now you look at whether the

15:04

government can deal with this kind of

15:06

attack. Other countries

15:08

with all of their blemishes have

15:10

actually lost their democracies

15:12

completely. To military coups and other

15:14

types of coups. And so

15:16

maybe their experience with that

15:18

has prioritized their response

15:20

in a way that in this country people keep

15:22

saying, What about the precedent or

15:24

danger of prosecuting the other

15:26

side or a cycle of that? What

15:28

about the danger of not?

15:31

What about the danger

15:35

the of out

15:36

in the open showing? You can

15:38

literally get away with all that and run

15:40

for office again and run and say you're

15:42

gonna pardon the people who are the

15:44

convicted seditionists. What do you

15:46

think they're gonna act like if they get out of prison

15:48

because somebody gets because none of

15:50

this was ever dealt with and they got

15:52

their battery in their back and their

15:54

pardon in their back pocket and they go back to get

15:56

their weapons. This is

15:58

not a drill.

16:01

We have two special guests who thought through these

16:03

issues a great deal Myo Wiley and David

16:05

Rothkop Wanna GIVE A LITTLE BREAK, SO

16:07

WE'RE BACK FOR THAT CONVERSATION IN JUST

16:09

sixty SECONDS.

16:13

It

16:16

can happen here. It is happening

16:18

here, and we're joined by lawyer

16:21

Mya Wiley, CEO of Leadership Conference.

16:23

And David Rothkappa for an affairs

16:25

expert and host of deep state

16:27

radio podcast. David, I

16:29

go to you first because we are looking at the

16:32

international perspective, but how it applies here at

16:34

home. I walk through some of the news,

16:36

your thoughts.

16:38

Well, first of all, I think any American

16:40

studies would happen in Germany will be

16:42

struck by other parallels. The

16:45

German group that was

16:47

behind this coup attempt followed

16:50

some of the teachings of QAnon. They

16:52

thought a deep state was going to take

16:54

over their government. They were

16:57

believed in COVID conspiracy theories

17:00

and had actually plotted

17:02

to go after the health

17:04

minister. There were members of the

17:06

military and judges involved. And

17:08

I think those parallels you

17:10

know, are chilling for for or

17:12

should be for most Americans because it suggests

17:15

they were part of the same

17:17

movement ideologically. As the

17:19

one we saw here. But of course, there's

17:21

one big difference. And the big

17:23

difference, the core issue that you talked

17:25

about the opening segment, is

17:28

that the party that was

17:30

in power in the United States as the

17:32

coup was being planned here

17:34

enabled

17:34

the coup.

17:35

They didn't stop

17:38

the coup. They defended

17:40

the president of the United States.

17:43

The Department of Justice allowed

17:45

things to happen. The Secret Service

17:48

allowed things to happen. People

17:50

in the Department of Homeland Security, in

17:52

the Department of Defense, allowed

17:54

things to happen. And,

17:56

of course, Republicans in the

17:58

Congress continue to

17:59

this day to discount

18:02

this coup. So, you know, we

18:04

are going into confronting

18:06

this kind of challenge with

18:08

one hand tied behind our back, one entire

18:11

political party supporting

18:13

the action of the coup plotters.

18:17

Maya? I agree

18:19

completely

18:19

with David about that distinction.

18:21

And let's just delve

18:23

a little deeper in that. We know

18:26

democracy is not a promise,

18:29

and it requires protection. And

18:31

to David's point,

18:32

protection means all of

18:35

us Some of the most important danger signs

18:37

that we saw building up to what

18:39

became a coup was

18:41

also a refusal

18:43

by Republicans who for so

18:46

long since nineteen sixty five,

18:47

the voting rights act of nineteen sixty five,

18:50

had said we will stand up for

18:51

protecting our democracy against

18:54

discrimination.

18:54

Yeah. And became the party

18:56

that even

18:57

in the face a fact

19:00

that said, look, there is no voter

19:02

fraud that's just

19:03

made up. Also,

19:05

if you

19:07

compare to Germany, we have a very

19:08

different legal system. And the

19:10

difference is in Germany,

19:13

there are actually laws on the book

19:15

that distinguish hate speech

19:18

and recognize the history of

19:20

neo Naziism in Germany and

19:22

its ability to overtake the government. Now,

19:24

I'm not suggesting we should go the way of Germany,

19:26

but I do want to know that

19:28

criminal prosecution in the United

19:31

States is a

19:33

different matter, particularly

19:35

in the context of a sitting

19:37

president making public statements which

19:39

have to be linked to the possibility of a crime.

19:41

So I just wanted to say that

19:43

we do have

19:45

legal distinctions as

19:47

well as the fact David's point, we

19:49

had warning signs that have been building for

19:51

a long time that our democracy required

19:55

protection and part of that was protecting

19:57

people's right to vote and not giving

19:59

into lies that

19:59

really were being it

20:02

was really right when conspiracy

20:03

theorists were spreading Donald

20:05

Trump decided to use to his

20:06

advantage. Yeah. And you're both documenting

20:09

some of the structural contrast and

20:11

then how embedded These shall

20:14

we say cool adjacent movements are

20:16

in in the Republican Party United States, if

20:18

that's a kind of a contrast. I mentioned the

20:20

impeachment vote in Peru. You know,

20:22

a hundred to six or so, a hundred one to six is like

20:24

very different. Then you have the

20:27

fact that the Congress under speaker

20:29

Pelosi was vigorously investigating

20:31

that sometimes really ahead of the DOJ. And

20:33

when I mention that to contrast about

20:35

the DOJ segmenting out the political elites,

20:38

They have indicted to Trump political

20:40

leads, but only on the

20:42

contempt for obstructing or

20:44

refusing to cooperate with the congressional

20:46

probe, not for underlying thing.

20:49

And as Maya knows well, when

20:51

folks take great personal legal

20:53

risk to not just

20:55

speak under oath or cooperate, you kind

20:57

of wonder why. It's a

20:59

fair question as an investigative lead. One

21:01

of those individuals, mister Navarro,

21:05

outlined in public what they were trying to do, and then

21:07

was vociferously complaining. Bannon has

21:09

been convicted of our awaiting trial soon.

21:12

But WAS VICIPRIously

21:14

COMPLAINING ABOUT HIS TREATMENT. TAKE A LOOK.

21:17

WHAT DID

21:18

THEY DO? THEY

21:21

INTERCEPTED ME GETTING ON THE PLANE. then

21:23

they put me in handcuffs. They

21:25

bring me here. They put me in lay

21:27

guys. They stick me in a self.

21:29

That's punitive. That that what they

21:31

did to me today violated

21:33

the constitution.

21:36

Maya? Yeah. No, it

21:38

didn't. It's called following the evidence. And

21:40

by the way, this is exactly the

21:43

point. We're seeing misinformation

21:45

and disinformation being

21:47

utilized for serving

21:49

one's own personal interest not

21:51

advancing the rule of law. But I do

21:53

want to say here that this is one of the things that's

21:55

also important to

21:55

point out about what the Department of Justice

21:57

has been doing. Because

21:59

the subpoenas have

21:59

been issuing, but they've been issuing

22:02

them, they've been including the Trump

22:04

inaugural committee. So it's not

22:06

as if we're not seeing action by the

22:08

Department of

22:08

Justice and the very fact that

22:10

Peter Navarro

22:11

is claiming that somehow

22:13

he

22:13

is a victim of

22:15

a partisan investigation is exactly the kind of

22:17

missing disinformation we have to fight against to

22:20

say, if we're a democracy, we have a rule

22:22

of law, and it applies to everyone, it

22:24

applies to every way equally. And you don't get

22:26

to say you're a powerful person or

22:28

had a position in government and

22:30

therefore remain immune from

22:32

investigation merely because you

22:34

once had power. He was on

22:36

your show arie, frankly

22:38

admitting facts that implicated

22:40

him in a crime. On your very

22:42

show, answering your very questions,

22:44

So I just have to say that democracy means he

22:46

should have been he should have received

22:48

the treatment he did or else the

22:50

criminal justice system wouldn't be working

22:52

fairly in an

22:53

CRATIC WAY. David,

22:56

THE INTERNATIONAL LESSONS ARE

22:58

HERE. MANY DIFFERENT

23:01

VOTE have looked at this. My colleague, Chris Hays, was looking at this

23:03

as well, and here's the parallel

23:05

he drew. Other

23:08

countries, like Germany,

23:10

and Peru, democracies like

23:13

ours.

23:13

Recognize a threat to their constitutional and

23:15

democratic order when they see one.

23:17

It sure

23:18

does seem like they take it

23:21

way more seriously than we do. And

23:23

I think part of

23:23

the reason for that could be that they're way

23:26

less complacent. ABOUT

23:28

HOW RESILING DEMOCRACY IS, HOW MUCH

23:30

OF A THREAT SOMEONE LIKE DONALD TRUMP CAN

23:32

BE?

23:33

David? Absolutely

23:35

right. You know, Navarro says

23:37

it's punitive. Damn, right. It's punitive. He

23:39

broke the law. This was

23:41

a coup attempt. One of the problems we

23:43

have in the United States, and Maya points

23:45

to this, is that the Republican

23:48

Party, the leaders of this coup attempt,

23:50

which was much bigger and

23:52

much broader than either of the

23:54

other two coup attempts you're talking about and

23:56

involved both the false

23:58

electors and the attack on January sixth. They've

23:59

said this is politics as

24:02

usual. They've been able

24:04

to make the case that this is politics

24:06

as usual when in fact

24:08

it was a crime and imagine for a moment

24:10

just to go back to Maya's point that, you

24:12

know, our justice department says

24:14

you can't prosecute a sitting president.

24:16

Well, that was not a hesitation for them in Peru.

24:19

Right? The sitting president was

24:21

arrested. Why? Because he broke

24:23

the law. Why? Because

24:25

nobody should be above the

24:27

law? And I think we need to

24:29

take a lesson from these governments around

24:31

the world. And recognize that

24:33

demod democracy is not. As

24:35

Maya said, Vouchsafe to us,

24:37

it is fragile. And if

24:39

we don't protect it actively,

24:41

we can lose it. Yeah. I

24:43

appreciate both your clarity on this. And as mentioned, you

24:45

both worked in these fields and thought

24:47

about this a lot. David Rothkopf and

24:49

Melber Wiley. I wanna tell viewers

24:51

at home were tracking what Congress is gonna do. They

24:53

just had a meeting over the weekend in the January

24:55

sixth committee about potential criminal

24:57

referrals. It's a subject we've been reporting

24:59

on here. And as I've told you, I

25:01

also have been writing something on the

25:03

Koo conspiracy. We're releasing it as a forward to

25:05

the January sixth committee's full report.

25:07

If you're interested, you can actually order right now. You can

25:09

search Melbourne, January six on Amazon or your favorite

25:12

independent book site, or just go to

25:14

Melbourne Book dot com. That's Melbourne

25:16

Book dot com, and you can get my forward on the coop

25:18

conspiracy. Spoiler, I've written

25:20

it. It's about nine thousand words and it'll come

25:22

in the front of the full official

25:24

edition. If you go to mailerbook dot com,

25:26

we expect Congress to release that report.

25:28

They have now said publicly next

25:30

Wednesday, so you can do that right now. And as I always

25:32

mention, you can also get the report

25:34

for free without my peace on

25:36

the coup. Online next week, so

25:38

you have options. We have a lot more in

25:40

tonight's program. And Obama White House

25:42

veteran David Pluff is here as house

25:44

Republicans have their own sort of political

25:46

civil war, but Brittany Greiner has been

25:48

back in the US now after she was facing

25:50

that extreme hot sentence

25:52

in Russia. And that brings us to something

25:54

really important tonight. There is hypocrisy

25:57

here. There's a lesson here at home.

25:59

It's about law and

25:59

justice, and it's my special report

26:02

for you

26:03

next.

26:10

Tonight,

26:10

after ten months behind bars

26:13

in Russia, W NBA star Britney Greiner is

26:15

coming home, seen here on

26:17

Russian state video. Do you know where I've

26:19

heading to? No. No.

26:21

No. You

26:23

can get that

26:23

point. You fly back home.

26:26

WNBA star Britney Greiner is

26:29

back home from Russia after serving ten months of

26:31

what was a nine year sentence

26:33

for carrying vape canisters

26:35

that allegedly had cannabis oil.

26:38

Across America and much of the Western world,

26:40

that kind of drug possession.

26:43

Prison sentence was widely

26:45

viewed as extreme, obviously

26:47

unjust. Indeed, it's

26:49

the absurd sentence there

26:51

that underscores why Greiner

26:53

was validly viewed as a political

26:56

prisoner. Just to

26:58

spell that out, if you imagine a different American

27:00

was convicted based on facts

27:02

for a crime that really did

27:04

merit nine years. Say

27:07

a violent offense caught on video

27:09

with no justification, then they

27:12

wouldn't legally be a political prisoner.

27:14

Even if they did the bad thing in a

27:16

legal system located in a country

27:18

that the US views as an adversary, like

27:21

Russia. And while some Republicans are

27:23

now trying to attack the details of the Biden swap,

27:25

the fact is, when we have the public record,

27:29

many people viewed this as

27:31

wrong. They joined the broader consensus

27:33

that this sentence was

27:35

unjust. Now much of

27:37

that makes sense. Indeed,

27:40

you could look across the discussion

27:42

of this from when it first came down.

27:44

If you remove just the super right wing partisans and

27:46

you would find people saying,

27:48

potent

27:49

nine years against an

27:52

athlete because of a vape canister, a

27:54

pot. I mean, this is obviously unfair.

27:57

And that

27:58

Scans. That's relatable as a matter of

28:01

justice.

28:03

Now,

28:04

take a listen.

28:06

WNBA star Britney Greiner convicted

28:09

today on drug charges in

28:11

Russia. A judge sentencing her

28:13

to nine years in a penal colony. It's close to ten

28:15

years in prison. That is

28:18

injustice. That's an American citizen

28:20

that does not belong in jail for nine

28:22

years. Brittany Greiner

28:23

should never have had to stand

28:26

trial, let alone be

28:28

sentenced to nearly a decade

28:30

behind

28:30

bars. I feel bad because the sentence is

28:32

five to ten years. They made

28:34

it seem like she AT LIKE OF ON HER. THIS

28:36

WOULD NOT HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES OF

28:39

AMERICA. THAT'S JUST A SAMPLEING OF

28:41

WHAT

28:41

I WAS DESCRIBING TO YOU THAT

28:43

It was widespread views that this was egregious

28:45

as a sentence. And that

28:48

includes conversation on Fox News

28:50

back before folks were trying to politicize the

28:52

Biden part Much of that

28:54

makes sense and is relatable. You may have noticed that last

28:56

sweeping claim though, quote, this

28:58

wouldn't happen in the United States.

29:01

Pulse.

29:02

This

29:03

happens in the United States. This,

29:05

if by this, we mean

29:07

harsh draconian drug sentences from

29:09

mere possession has been happening for a

29:12

long time. And even now, as some states

29:14

legalize pot and there's a push for a more treatment

29:16

oriented approach to drug possession

29:18

or use, The drug was alive

29:20

in Well America. I've told you that before.

29:22

Police make over a million arrests

29:24

a year for drug possession alone.

29:26

That fixation on possession

29:29

is

29:29

still an

29:30

endemic part of how policing works

29:32

in America. That means apart

29:34

from, say, dealing drugs

29:37

or violence that could be linked to drugs which are very serious

29:40

felonies, the possession, obsession

29:42

drives extreme sentences

29:44

in the US. With

29:47

no Putin in sight. I

29:49

mean, this quite literally, this isn't something where I'm

29:51

sort of drawing a connection to Russia. I'm

29:53

telling you the news. Here's

29:55

someone you may not hear about as much as

29:57

miss Greinder. A man

29:59

named

29:59

Alan Russell. Mississippi

30:02

Authority sentenced him to many, many

30:05

years because he was convicted of

30:07

only marijuana possession, not

30:09

distribution or anything else.

30:11

But under the state laws, again, no

30:14

Putin down there in the South. His

30:16

previous separate criminal record was what

30:18

was used to escalate the punishment.

30:21

Even though legally he already did his time for

30:23

prior offenses, one of them, by the way, was

30:25

that he was found to possess a

30:27

firearm, but unlawfully. As you

30:29

may know, tens of millions of

30:31

Americans possess many, many guns,

30:33

some of them unlawfully. But

30:35

they didn't get in trouble with the authorities down there.

30:37

He did. Mississippi prosecutors

30:39

should have book in him

30:41

for that marijuana that's now legal in so

30:43

many places about half of the US states.

30:45

Now, I told you this one case as an example,

30:48

and I said many years.

30:50

Okay. How many? How many years

30:52

for marijuana possession in the US?

30:56

All

30:56

of them. He's

30:57

serving life behind bars.

31:00

And you may say, well, that sounds

31:02

extreme. Did anyone try to

31:05

challenge this to check beyond the south

31:07

of Mississippi. Is this really

31:09

allowed under US law?

31:11

Yeah. They

31:12

did try. It went

31:14

up to the Mississippi Supreme Court,

31:16

judges not politicians, and they

31:18

affirmed the ruling just this year.

31:21

Finding that life sentence for pot that's

31:23

way past Putin did

31:25

not qualify as quote, cruel and

31:27

unusual punishment. And under

31:29

our court system, that was the last word. The

31:31

Supreme Court did not intervene there nor have they

31:33

in other similar cases where drug

31:35

possession gets something that you might

31:37

call supersized poo. So

31:39

you

31:39

look at that and you look

31:41

at

31:41

what we're doing in this country and you say

31:44

yes, of course, A Putin

31:46

example has some differences including

31:48

the obvious political agenda

31:51

of pool Putin. But

31:53

the sentence is

31:54

what everyone

31:55

was outraged about. If

31:57

they're outraged about it over

31:59

there, why aren't you outraged about it over

32:02

here? This is how prison works day

32:04

in and day out in America. We've put it out of

32:06

it for a second and look at the facts. One in five

32:08

incarcerated individuals are there on

32:10

drug charges twenty percent

32:12

of inmates. Lot of these are laws that continue to

32:14

be enforced and disproportionately against

32:16

poor and minorities. So again,

32:18

there is a drug war.

32:20

But it's not a drug war

32:23

against all Americans. New York

32:25

Times recently did touch on this

32:27

issue, discussing the failed war on drugs and

32:29

highlighting their some reforms still in the

32:31

works. The Equal Act, for

32:33

example, would try to once and for all, and the

32:35

disparity for drug offenses between

32:37

different types of drugs, which are one of

32:39

the ways that there is discrimination

32:41

against poor minorities. That bill would reverse

32:43

the disparity that was began back

32:45

in the Reagan era in

32:47

the eighties. That was going after

32:49

specifically crack cocaine with the racial politics

32:51

of the time. Black Americans

32:53

convicted for eighty percent of those convictions

32:55

despite the fact that two thirds of

32:57

all people who smoke crack

32:59

are white. Let me repeat. Two

33:01

thirds of all people in the United States who smoke

33:03

crack are white, but they're

33:05

not being arrested and convicted and

33:07

jailed this way. Now some senators

33:09

are actually pushing to get this passed

33:11

before the year ends.

33:14

And there is wider here. I will note in some

33:16

of the attitudes towards how

33:18

we use the prisons and

33:20

how drugs fit in. Especially

33:23

marijuana, which is basically half legal in

33:25

our weird system where different states call

33:27

it different ways. That's why the president recently

33:29

pardoned people who had old marijuana possession

33:33

records, which itself is a big deal. That would have been

33:35

hard to imagine politically by

33:37

a centrist Democrat like Biden even ten

33:39

or twenty years ago. But that was

33:41

a marker. It didn't actually release anyone

33:43

from prison, like the individual I mentioned tonight

33:45

or others serving this way.

33:48

Those are state cases. The president under

33:50

federalism can't do anything about those even if he

33:52

wanted to. So while

33:54

many people came together here

33:56

and said, Cuten

33:57

bad, extreme drug sentence

33:59

bad, opposing

34:01

that, good. We

34:04

don't have yet the ability to look in the

34:06

mirror and see the exact same thing happening

34:09

in our own country.

34:12

Where we need to address this even without

34:14

some foreign bogeyman. We'll

34:17

be right back.

34:19

the right back By

34:23

his

34:26

standards, to

34:26

achieve what he wants to achieve,

34:30

Joe Biden has been pretty darn effective, and he had just

34:32

had one of the best off year elections in

34:34

American history. If I poll on

34:37

this case turned out, to be

34:39

a heck of a lot more successful than we thought

34:41

he would be. Republican Newt Gingrich saying,

34:42

well, give Biden his due,

34:45

look at the result. Meanwhile,

34:47

Republican Kevin McCarthy is facing

34:50

this tough race for speaker. He's been

34:52

going on Fox News a bunch. He's trying to

34:54

shore up port and position

34:56

himself as the only rightful heir

34:58

to what was a narrow mid term

35:00

victory that underperformed the promised

35:02

red wave.

35:04

Political says, There are twenty plus detractors ready to engage

35:06

McCarthy and that he might have a

35:08

real race on his hands in

35:10

early January. I'm joined now

35:12

by Barack Obama campaign manager at

35:14

MSNBC analyst David Pluff. Welcome back,

35:16

sir. This

35:18

is Yare. Do you see a link at all between what

35:20

you might call the reality based

35:22

community on the right? People like New Cambridge who

35:24

desperately want to stop the

35:26

Biden agenda who wanted to stop

35:28

a year old boss Barack Obama, but who

35:30

deal in facts and say, a

35:32

midterm fizzle, by an effective on

35:34

his own terms, which are results Cambridge

35:36

obviously disagrees with. Do you see a connection

35:38

to that whole bundle? And

35:40

McCarthy having a tough time winning

35:42

up so far, I

35:44

guess. Well, as

35:44

far as I can tell, Ari, the

35:47

issue is the Republicans in

35:49

the House caucus who either won close races like

35:51

those newly elected members in New York, the one that delivered

35:54

them this narrow majority, are not

35:56

calling the

35:58

shots. Right? So people who are concerned about Republican

35:59

performance are not the issue for McCarthy.

36:02

It's people who wanna continue to live in the

36:04

Fantasy land.

36:06

That, you know, new generally inhibits that. Occasionally, he

36:08

can drift out as he did in those comments.

36:10

So that's the issue. I mean, I think

36:13

you've basically got anywhere from five to twenty, twenty five

36:15

House Republican members who are probably

36:18

disinclined to believe

36:20

that these were legitimate results

36:23

or is anything the party has to worry about? They

36:25

just have to double down on the

36:27

conspiracy theories. And I think this is gonna play

36:29

out most fascinatingly in the

36:32

presidential race. We'll see ultimate that Republican primary field looks

36:34

like. But can somebody navigate

36:36

it somehow who's

36:38

not in full on

36:40

conspiracy land. I think that's gonna be the question that's

36:42

not just gonna shape this next presidential

36:44

election, but American politics for a long time

36:46

to come. Yeah. And you look at the who's in charge of the R and C? I mean, as you

36:48

well know, because you've worked so intimately in this,

36:50

the structural stuff takes

36:52

longer because it's

36:54

it's the when it was the

36:56

Obama level, it was Obama folks

36:58

who were still running certain things for however

37:00

long, although they had, I guess, a

37:02

more winning than Trump to extend the the political calculus. It's Trump people

37:04

at the R and C. Here's

37:06

Rhonda McDaniel being asked about

37:08

all this. Would

37:10

you publicly say that Donald

37:12

Trump bears any responsibility for

37:14

the some of

37:15

the losses in the midterm

37:18

elections. Would you say that public? No. I

37:19

don't like this. I don't like these

37:22

parceling out because he supported

37:24

Ted Bud who won and he supported JD

37:26

Vance who won. I THINK THERE'S A LOT

37:28

OF THINGS. Reporter: A LITTLE BIT

37:29

OF THE INCIDENT, NOW DAVID, YOU

37:31

KNOW FROM WORKING IN PUBLIC LIFE, IF THERE'S A

37:33

QUESTION OR A TOPIC THAT YOU

37:36

DON'T LIKE, You just say you don't like it, and then you don't have deal with it. I know

37:38

that that's how it is at the White House. You just

37:40

say, I don't like

37:42

this missile

37:44

clash make it go away.

37:46

But notwithstanding her not liking the

37:48

question, what do you think of of

37:50

her effort to say, well, Trump did win

37:53

some races in her view? Well,

37:55

I think when you work in the White House, particularly

37:57

if you're gonna, you know, do discussions with

37:59

a

37:59

broad variety of reporters, you are gonna

38:02

get pressed. So many of these Republican officials, Ronald McDaniel, as

38:04

well, they they just appear in these friendly

38:06

confines. Yet, they're getting tough questions -- Yeah. --

38:08

because I think people are dissatisfied with the last

38:10

three elections.

38:12

I mean, she's not going to throw Trump under the bus, but for those in the R and

38:14

C who are worried about the direction, look at

38:16

the sport car, wins and losses. And

38:20

say, this has been pretty terrible.

38:22

The last three elections, and

38:24

we need to change course. That's

38:26

gonna give them more fuel. That

38:29

there needs to be a change at the top and drive by. And by the way, fastening about,

38:31

like, the cut now, we don't know yet what the

38:33

primary calendars look like because even

38:35

what President Biden put

38:37

out there. There's a lot of things that have to happen to make that

38:40

real. It seems like the Trump forces

38:42

want to keep Iowa for us first, which

38:44

if I were him, I'm not giving you

38:46

political advice but I will, I prefer

38:48

a primary than caucus. I don't understand.

38:50

And he didn't do particularly well in

38:52

Iowa. And he's kind of a lazy figure.

38:55

And you really got a hustle in caucus states, even

38:57

more so than a primary state, which tends to be

38:59

more wholesale. So I'm gonna be really fascinated

39:02

to see that kind of backroom

39:04

dealing to see if there's any adjustments on

39:06

the report. No. It's not the primary. Forty seconds

39:08

now. But, Dave, it sounds like you're over Iowa.

39:11

And yet the

39:12

caucus was so good to Barack

39:14

Obama. Oh, no. There's no question

39:16

about that, but I think that shift is sound. I

39:18

think we'll have very few caucuses across

39:21

a country and clearly Iowa. He has

39:23

warm memories, but I think our calendar is

39:25

gonna change. Assuming a lot's gonna

39:27

happen, Ari, we're Republican governors in states

39:29

like Nevada and South Carolina are going to have to

39:31

play ball here, probably force the RMC or convince the RMC to make some

39:33

adjustments. So this is far from over. Howard Bauchner:

39:35

Yeah, and you're

39:38

you're something that does matter that primary calendar while a little bit arcane

39:40

and a long ways out makes a

39:42

big difference. Right? You start the primary in Florida

39:44

or Iowa or a more diverse states.

39:47

It's gonna gonna have a big impact on either party how

39:50

they do it. So it's a big one. David Pluff

39:52

always good to have your

39:54

expertise, sir. Thanks, Ari.

39:56

Thank you. When we come back, we're

39:58

gonna get into something really nice and

40:00

fun, which is this holiday season

40:03

at the Biden White House. So

40:05

I'm

40:07

a CIBC

40:10

analyst Michael Steele was on

40:12

the show recently. He mentioned on air

40:15

that we made a TikTok during one

40:17

commercial break, and it's true that Chairman

40:19

and I made this quick video

40:21

behind the scenes. Some

40:24

call it a name, other people call it a

40:26

name. It's not our only video. Here is

40:28

another new video I made.

40:31

From inside the White House holiday

40:33

party, I'm gonna leave this here so you can see in

40:35

the background. That's inside the

40:38

Biden White House, was just there. My brother makes a

40:40

little cameo right there

40:42

because he's he's always having

40:44

fun even when I'm making videos. There's the

40:46

White House Christmas tree behind us. There

40:49

he is. You're gonna see the Obama portrait at

40:51

one point. So

40:54

that's some of the extra videos

40:56

we're making. Always an honor to be

40:58

back at the White House. I should mention they had suspended

41:00

the holiday party for COVID and other things, but

41:02

they're back in gear. You can see the Marine

41:04

Band as well. And if you want this

41:06

kind of content, I I did warn you some

41:08

of it is just fun or a name, but you can always follow me on TikTok at

41:10

Ari Melber. That is on TikTok

41:13

at Ari Melber You can get the behind

41:15

the scenes at MSNBC, you can

41:18

see Jensaki, Michael Steele, our

41:20

other friends, and sometimes, well,

41:22

very rarely with sometimes even a White House

41:24

Christmas tree. So I wanted to share that

41:26

with you and pay off the promise Michael Steele and I had collectively made

41:28

that we did do a silly little commercial

41:32

break TikTok. As always, thanks for

41:34

spending time with