0:00

On the Dog Cast, the questions asked

0:03

if movies have women and um are

0:05

all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

0:08

or do they have individualism? The

0:10

patriarchy Zef and Best

0:12

start changing it with the beck Del cast.

0:16

Caitlin, I

0:18

just wish that Jamie got

0:20

her miracle? Are

0:24

you talking about you, Jamie? I'm

0:26

talking about or I'm talking about Jamie

0:29

Sullivan, Jamie, you know, the one

0:31

with the brown hair. Okay,

0:33

so you. I hope that she got

0:35

her miracle. I hope that Jamie

0:38

got her miracle too, and I'm talking

0:40

about you specifically. Well

0:42

she did, it's you. I'm

0:44

your miracle. Oh

0:47

my god. I this

0:51

I liked, Okay, of all that, there's

0:54

so many corny moments in A Walk to Remember, which

0:56

is today's episode, and we'll get to what this show

0:58

is in a second. But I really

1:01

some of the like flourish of bad

1:03

writing, where there's like moments in this movie where

1:06

the line is like, Okay, that's like corny,

1:08

but it's not bad. But then they'll add more

1:10

to the line and it gets worse, like they

1:13

could the priest should have just said she

1:15

did, but then he said she did

1:17

dot dot dot and like assuming. People

1:20

in the audience were like, what does he mean by that?

1:23

Because it was you? And

1:25

and then Shane west cost Oh it

1:28

was me. It was me, Okay,

1:31

me, And that's why I'm never

1:33

going to stop going to church. Welcome

1:36

to the Bachtel cast

1:39

a k A church. Uh,

1:41

my name's Jamie Church

1:45

Church. Oh God, just for

1:47

for one week only. Welcome

1:50

to the Bechtel Church. My

1:52

name is Jamie Loftus. My name

1:54

is Caitlin Darante. And this is

1:57

our little podcast where we

1:59

we talked about your favorite at

2:01

least favorite and also other movies using

2:03

an intersectional feminist lens,

2:05

and we use the

2:08

Bechtel test as a

2:10

jumping off point. It

2:12

initiates a larger conversation

2:14

that will have and the

2:17

Bechdel Test, of course, is

2:20

a media metric created

2:22

by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,

2:25

sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace

2:27

Test. Our variation

2:30

on the test requires that

2:33

two people of any marginalized

2:35

gender have names speak

2:38

to each other about something other

2:40

than a man. For ideally

2:43

it's a meaningful,

2:46

narratively relevant conversation yea

2:48

which which does come into play

2:50

with this movie in

2:53

particular, where not

2:55

to blow it. But there

2:57

are women do speak to each other in this movie,

2:59

but it's never very important.

3:02

It's not very important when they're talking,

3:04

unless I mean they're bullying Mandy

3:07

Moore. The women are talking to each

3:09

other, they're like, Mandy Moore sucks,

3:12

and then other girls like, I know, I

3:14

hate her sweater, and you're like, I guess

3:16

that's sort of Narratively, it's relevant.

3:18

I suppose it is. It's relevant because

3:21

but also for some reason, bullying doesn't affect

3:23

Jamie, because Jamie's

3:25

are famously impervious to bully.

3:29

I know this from experience, having constantly

3:32

tried to bully you, and it never works.

3:35

I always just go I do with Mandy

3:37

Mordez, I guess I go, they're so mature,

3:40

they need God. That's what I do whenever someone

3:42

tries to bully me. I said, you should come to

3:44

my dad's church sometime. Yeah.

3:47

Well, we're doing a walk to remember today

3:50

and we have an incredible guest. That's right.

3:52

She is a comedy producer. You can see

3:54

her stuff at Naked Comedy dot org.

3:57

It's Sam Farella. Welcome,

4:00

Welcome, Welcome to

4:02

me. I don't

4:04

want to spoil anything either, but I

4:06

do have to say, I think I think

4:09

there was one instance of the

4:11

bully, of the of Jamie being cracked

4:13

by the bullying, which might also be

4:16

something relative to the name of this podcast.

4:19

That's true. That is true there because

4:21

Belinda, I believe this movie.

4:24

This movie is so like it's

4:26

just like bizarre in so many ways where

4:29

I it's the book takes

4:31

place in the nineteen fifties. The movie takes

4:33

place allegedly in the nineteen nineties,

4:36

but it seems like it's still Everyone

4:38

still looks like it's the nineteen fifties. Everyone's

4:41

still dressed like Greaser's but

4:44

they have Missy Elliott c ds.

4:46

It was really bizarre,

4:48

But yeah, there was. There was a Becktel test pass

4:51

where Belinda says want a tik tak and Jamie

4:53

says, no, thanks.

4:56

There it is right there.

4:59

It is it. If you argue that's not

5:01

impactful, I have an

5:03

whole essay high

5:06

completely. This is one of those movies that I just simply

5:08

forgot to pay attention to whether

5:10

or not it passes the Bechdel test. But

5:12

I do remember that exchange, and

5:15

it's it's crucial

5:17

to understanding the film. Right before some

5:20

very two thousand and two photoshop

5:22

bullying, which is one

5:25

which is one of the main which I

5:27

think is one of again one of the only things

5:29

that firmly roots that movie

5:32

in the late nineties, because

5:34

I swear to God, like I think most of the movie could

5:36

convincingly take place in any

5:38

year in the second half, any decade of

5:40

the twentieth century, except they

5:42

have photoshop, and they

5:45

have switch Foot and they

5:47

have like that's

5:50

about it, right, Oh

5:53

my gosh, Well I this

5:55

movie. I'm gonna this is gonna

5:57

be a challenge. Uh

6:00

Sam, what is your history with a

6:02

walk to remember? Well, I

6:04

have a very particular

6:07

history. That is that I

6:10

this movie I think was one of my

6:12

first boyfriend's favorite movies. I

6:14

think he was the one that brought it to me, brought

6:16

it to the table, and you know, in

6:19

high school seduction

6:22

classic move I of course memorized

6:25

only hope and saying it I think

6:28

a few times, you know, to get

6:30

in the mood. It's

6:35

very complicated. I have a complicated

6:38

romantic past. But um,

6:41

definitely on the rewatch, you know,

6:43

toxic Romance definitely

6:45

made a lot more sense to my personal

6:48

connection to this movie. So

6:50

you would sing, wait,

6:52

how does the song go and my

7:01

hands and pray

7:04

to be only yours.

7:06

I pray to be only

7:09

yours. No, no, you're

7:13

oh, oh

7:17

my god beautiful.

7:20

If I ever had an SNL audition, it would

7:22

be that one song, because I rememorized

7:24

it that like, I've taken

7:27

singing lessons since and tried

7:29

to learn to sing that song, and they're

7:31

like pointing out the issues. I'm like, but that's how

7:33

Mandy Moore sings it. That's how I know how to

7:35

sing it. That is the beauty

7:37

of Mandy Moore in many ways, where

7:39

she was a pop star who was

7:42

not necessarily a great singer, but

7:44

she was like a solid high school sopranos,

7:46

so her songs are like not hard

7:49

to sing if you were in choir,

7:52

Like anyone in choire can

7:54

sing Mandy Moore's entire discography

7:56

no problem. Though I didn't

7:59

know till this one, and my you

8:01

know, subsequential obsession

8:03

of googling a bunch of stuff. I didn't know that.

8:06

I didn't know the Switchfoot story, and I didn't

8:08

know this was originally a switch Foot song, which

8:10

really blew my mind. It sounds weird. If you wait,

8:14

yeah, you would guess it's the other way around.

8:16

They're covering her, but no, no, she's

8:19

covering them. Who is switch

8:21

Foot? What is that? Are

8:23

they of? Like for real Christian

8:26

band or they This was one

8:28

of my googles. So they

8:30

have come out as they are Christian

8:33

and Faith not in format. They are

8:35

not. They do not consider themselves Christian

8:37

music. But it's highly debated online.

8:40

But Faith not in format. Wow,

8:42

that's good dodgy language. I like

8:45

that. But I guess Mandy

8:47

Moore was obsessed with them and

8:50

turned the music supervisor

8:52

of this production onto

8:54

them, and they were like, we gotta have

8:56

switch Foot. This is the sound of the movie.

8:59

So there's four or five songs

9:01

from Switchfoot on the soundtrack,

9:04

which in an interview so that

9:06

I watched again, I went real deep. Shane

9:08

West said it might have gone platinum the album

9:10

for this. I don't know if that's true. I couldn't

9:14

um, but yeah, so I guess Only

9:16

Hope was a song that they had written even

9:18

before the movie. This was just

9:20

a song of theirs and they were like,

9:22

that's her song for the movie. So

9:25

at least if you hear a man

9:27

singing it, it does read more

9:29

Christian than in this movie where

9:32

It is like some sort of sexual

9:34

power play song. Also,

9:38

the song gets performed in

9:40

its entirety in the movie during

9:42

a high school production of

9:45

like twenties Mobster. What

9:47

is that play about? What's

9:50

going on in that play? Why would you sing

9:52

that at a nightclub? Right? I

9:55

went back to like rewatch the set

9:57

uppre scene, and I still can't

9:59

make answer tells of what sets up that song

10:01

or why this mobster would be her

10:03

only hope. I he

10:06

was trying to remember a dream and

10:08

then he got shocked by her body

10:11

and then he just was like the song you messing

10:13

for me? Yeah? Blew, my

10:15

mind doesn't

10:18

make any sense. I don't know

10:20

what the play is about. There's a really long montage

10:22

also where they're rehearsing

10:24

for the play that's like edited

10:27

in a way where you're like, what

10:30

on earth am I watching? So?

10:33

Yeah, the play is confusing.

10:35

Okay, So Sam, you have a you have a maybe

10:38

a torrid history with this film,

10:41

Jamie, what's your relationship

10:44

in history with it? Um? It's

10:46

not quite that level, but it's

10:48

pretty intense where this I

10:51

I loved this movie

10:53

when I was a kid. I don't think

10:55

I saw it in theaters, but there.

10:58

I remember my cousin telling me,

11:01

which is in retrospect, it was like, this was

11:03

not nice. She was like, she's like,

11:05

Mandy Moore is in a movie and she has your

11:08

name, and she has the same color hair as you.

11:10

You have to see it. What she did not say

11:12

is that she dies there, so

11:15

so she and so I guess if you haven't

11:17

seen A Walk to remember, Mandy Moore famously

11:20

dies in the movie. But I but

11:22

I remember like going to the movie not being

11:24

like whenever like nine, not realizing

11:27

that Mandy Moore was doomed,

11:30

and being like, oh my god, this is so

11:32

me. I'm not like the other girls.

11:34

My name is Jamie, I have brown hair. And

11:37

then in the like when it becomes clear

11:39

that she's doomed, I was like, this sucks.

11:42

No one's ever no one's And then

11:44

I've really turned on the movie hard. I

11:46

was like, why would you have why would this be the only

11:48

movie character named after me? And then she dies

11:52

that said, I really

11:55

I've seen this movie. I haven't seen it in easily

11:57

ten years, but I saw it a lot

12:00

when I was younger. It's like, oh,

12:03

I I really I feel like this movie.

12:06

I was like, not raised

12:08

particularly religious at all, Like

12:10

we went to church, but it just

12:13

felt like, I don't know, it was I didn't

12:15

grow up especially religious, and once

12:17

I was like twelve, we just were

12:19

like, well, I feel like we've done the

12:21

whole religion thing and we left. But

12:24

this was as close

12:27

to being religious

12:29

as I ever got. Was being like A Walk to

12:31

Remember is a really powerful

12:33

story, you know, like it I

12:36

really loved. I had a huge crush on

12:38

Mandy Moore and Shane West and

12:41

I just I really

12:43

and oh oh. The other thing about this

12:45

movie was that when I was little, I

12:47

had like a one of those pull out

12:49

of a magazine posters of

12:52

Mandy Moore, and I forgot I feel like I might

12:54

have brought this up on the show years ago,

12:57

but I had this poster of Mandy Moore hanging

12:59

in my room and I thought that

13:01

she could see me and watch me, and I was

13:03

so scared of the poster. So

13:06

this would be in that time too, where

13:08

I was like I

13:10

was, I loved Mandy Moore and

13:12

I wanted her on my wall, but I also was really

13:14

scared of her because I thought she knew what I what I

13:16

was doing amazing, And so

13:19

eventually my mom took the poster

13:21

down and I got mad, but she

13:23

was just like, let's end this, Mandy

13:25

Moore can't see you. It

13:28

was it must have been one of those like bizarre

13:30

pictures where it just like it. I felt like the eyes

13:32

were following me. That was the thing. It

13:35

was like a Mona Lisa kind of thing. Um,

13:38

so maybe Moore is my Mona Lisa.

13:41

That's my history with the movie, Caitlin,

13:43

with your history with a walk

13:46

to remember, I don't have

13:48

an extensive one. This movie came out when

13:50

I was a sophomore

13:52

or junior in high school sometime around

13:55

then, so I was like peak demographic

13:58

for this movie. But this

14:00

was also when I was very

14:02

firmly like I

14:04

don't like girl things,

14:07

no things. So

14:09

this movie came out and it was a huge hit

14:12

among my friends, and I

14:14

saw it because of that. Probably it's

14:17

like a sleepover or just

14:19

I don't know. We're hanging out and we watched it and

14:22

I was like, this movie is not for

14:24

me. And that was really the only time I saw

14:26

it. Part of Stone, I

14:31

am my truly. My

14:33

heart is a lump of coal in

14:36

my chest, and I have no feelings.

14:39

I'm sure I was like moved by it,

14:41

but I don't know this. That's

14:46

my history with it that I was like, Okay,

14:48

this movie exists, I'll watch it once

14:50

in two thousand two and then never again.

14:54

So but

14:56

watching it back was interesting,

14:59

and I will say that it is while

15:01

it's still has its

15:03

issues, it's less full

15:05

of issues than I thought it would be for a

15:08

teen movie that comes out in two thousand two, I

15:10

would agree with that. Yeah, it had it held

15:12

up better than I was expecting, which isn't

15:14

to say that it super holds up, but

15:16

it for what it was. Where I like Christian

15:19

E teen movie Nicholas Sparks

15:22

early two thousand's, you would think that

15:24

it would be much worse

15:26

than it actually did. I think this is my favorite

15:28

of the Nicholas Sparks adaptations I've seen.

15:31

This remains my favorite one.

15:34

I um took it upon myself

15:36

to just here's what I'll suggests

15:39

the listeners do google

15:42

Nicholas Sparks movies,

15:45

and I think like eleven different things

15:47

come up because he's had many adaptations

15:50

of his novels into movies,

15:52

and all of the posters will just like be

15:55

right there in front of you all side by side

15:57

every poster is identical.

16:01

Wait, this is funny. You can also google

16:03

the Nicholas Sparks collection that just has

16:05

all four has like four matching

16:07

posters as its cover. Two

16:11

straight white people with their heads really close

16:13

together. Yes, either facing

16:15

away from each other or facing towards

16:18

each other. Like some of them they're like face to

16:20

face. Other ones like the man is behind

16:22

the woman. They're all in some

16:24

kind of like warm pink

16:27

or yellow. A lot of heads are being grabbed

16:30

to a lot of grabbing of heads.

16:32

Richard Gear is grabbing Diane Lane's

16:34

head for Knights of Road, Danty.

16:37

He's like like a real vice. Same

16:40

thing with safe Haven, which is I

16:42

think Josh Dumel, And then I

16:44

don't know who the lady, who the woman is

16:47

in it. I don't know what half of these are. Yeah,

16:49

I don't know safe Haven. I don't know the best

16:51

of Me. I don't know the Lucky One.

16:53

I don't know the longest ride these

16:56

there's so many. I've seen the

16:58

Lucky One because I will watch to anything

17:00

that zac Efron is in. Do you guys

17:02

know if the other Nicholas Sparks movies

17:04

are as religious? I couldn't

17:06

get a clear answer on the Internet. I

17:09

think it's not really because

17:11

I've I've seen probably half of these

17:14

and the only one I've seen multiple times is

17:16

The Notebook and now A Walk to Remember.

17:19

But of the other ones, I think they're not. The

17:21

religious over or undertones are

17:24

not quite there the way they are

17:26

in the Walk to Remember, at least for the ones I've

17:28

seen. I kind of wonder where that comes

17:30

from, like because I don't

17:33

I might have read the book

17:35

when I was in like junior high

17:37

or something. I don't remember anything about it. I know a lot was

17:39

changed, but I wonder if like the book is as

17:42

like bonking you with the like have

17:44

faith in people message,

17:46

because I know that she was religious the

17:48

person that's based off of, and

17:51

she did have a Bible she gave away kind

17:53

of thing. But I tried all

17:55

the Googles. I couldn't find anything to be like, why is

17:57

this movie so not just religio

18:00

just but like like it's hammering you

18:02

with the moral elements of religion. I

18:04

was like, who paid for this? Like what's

18:07

happening? Well? I did

18:09

a like google of Nicholas

18:11

Sparks and his life

18:13

to see if there's been anything of

18:15

note, and it seems like he personally

18:19

is quite religious and founded a Christian

18:21

school which tried to form

18:24

an l g B t Q club,

18:26

which he then tried to ban, know

18:29

what, Yeah, and

18:31

then students were protesting that, and

18:33

then he banned the protests

18:36

of it, so like he can't ban

18:38

protests. What did

18:40

you see his quote about it? Yeah? Oh

18:44

my god. And then sometime

18:46

later he backtracked on all this and he's like, no,

18:48

wait, I'm an ally, and the

18:50

reason that my school has no diversity

18:53

in it doesn't have anything to do with

18:55

the school. It's these other

18:57

flimsy reasons. So he like

19:00

saying all this problematic stuff in

19:02

like I don't know or something, and then

19:04

he's walked it all back and

19:06

been like no, no, no, I'm actually

19:09

an ally. Please let me still have a career.

19:11

Like, but did you see the quote

19:14

where he was like, we don't need

19:16

this. He was the reason he said the reason he

19:18

banned those organizations was because essentially

19:20

it was we don't need these out and open these

19:22

kind of clubs like they have always been

19:25

gays in Catholicism. They

19:27

just handled it more delicately and

19:29

like that was his stance on it was

19:31

like, stay in the closet and we'll

19:34

all get along. Yikes, that's such

19:36

horseshit, especially because it's

19:38

like this, this movie is directed

19:41

by an openly gay man who was

19:43

openly gay at the time the movie was directed.

19:45

I believe, like it's like, yeah,

19:47

god, that's so. I mean, I guess I'm

19:49

not surprised that Nicholas Sparks fucking

19:52

sucks, but I did not

19:54

know that portion of his life.

19:57

That's horrible. Yeah, his his

19:59

history isn't great, but

20:01

now he's an ally so everything's

20:04

fine. All's well, that

20:07

ends Well, we just need a movie

20:09

poster of like the same sex couple

20:11

holding their heads. Yeah, we need we

20:14

need someone grabbing someone else's head.

20:17

Um, but it's a queer movie this time.

20:20

That'll fix everything. That one everything,

20:23

You know what would really fix everything? If we gave

20:26

Nicholas Sparked more money. I think that would

20:28

fix everything. Oh my gosh. Absolutely.

20:31

Why don't we take a quick break and then come

20:33

back and do the recap and

20:41

we're back. Okay, all

20:43

right, so let's shall we shall we get into

20:45

it. Let's get into it. So

20:49

we meet Landon Carter. That's

20:51

Shane West. He's with his friends,

20:54

who are these popular kids

20:56

who are mean, and

20:58

Landon gets in trouble after a

21:01

classmate of theirs gets hurt because

21:03

of a prank all the popular

21:06

kids pulled on him, brutal. Just

21:08

quick quick reminder at the top, Shane

21:10

West is a stage name. Shane West's

21:13

actual name is Shannon Bruce

21:15

Snaith. I did not know

21:17

that. It's one of my favorite celebrity

21:22

facts is his name is Shannon Snaith,

21:25

And so they were like, that's not gonna

21:27

work. We need I think it would be fun

21:29

if he was just allowed to be Shannon Snaith.

21:32

I also think I wonder

21:34

if anyone else picked up on this, or if I'm

21:36

just being tall girl syndrome.

21:39

I also think that Shane West is shorter

21:42

than Mandy Moore. His height fluctuates

21:44

throughout the movie, and I think that

21:46

the movie does not like the movie is very

21:49

rigid and its values. And I think that they

21:51

also must have said, we can't

21:53

have a male lead who is

21:55

shorter than our female lead due

21:57

to societal pressures, because

22:00

anymore is five ten. Shane

22:02

West is six ft

22:04

allegedly, but

22:07

but that's impossible because he's shorter than

22:09

her in anything where you can see his

22:11

feet, he is shorter than her. Any

22:13

scene where you cannot see his feet, he

22:16

is taller than her, meaning that he's wearing some

22:18

sort of acting shoes acting

22:21

shoes or they they stuck him

22:23

on like an apple box? Is that what those

22:25

are called? And yeah, you want to go rewatch

22:27

the dance scene. It's the dancing

22:29

where it's most obvious because she's teaching

22:32

him how to dance, and you're like, oh, he's

22:34

shorter than her. I never see that in movies. Why

22:36

didn't I notice that? And then it cuts to the next

22:38

scene and he's taller than her in the next scene, and I

22:40

was like, why can't men just be

22:42

five seven? Sometimes it's fine, relax,

22:47

So I'm sorry I have so many deep

22:49

dive facts. But fun fact,

22:51

along with other parts of this set, a lot

22:53

of the sets were from like Dawson's Creek and other

22:55

highly popular areas or a filming zone.

22:58

But so whatever that water basins that they

23:00

did this first prank at,

23:03

apparently it was full of like algae

23:05

and eels and they had scula

23:08

divers clearing the water

23:10

for the stunt. So like, just

23:12

to put us in Shane West and whoever

23:14

that guy's names had. They're diving

23:17

and swimming and eels, their belly

23:19

flopping straight into an eel.

23:22

Holy, that is

23:25

dangerous. Once you I, I did know about the

23:28

Dawson's Creek stuff, and

23:30

like, once you've I watched

23:32

two seasons of that when I was sick, like

23:35

two years ago, And once you know it's

23:37

the same high school, you can't unsee

23:39

it. You're like, oh, I've I've seen drama

23:41

in these halls before. Okay,

23:47

So then we meet Jamie

23:49

Sullivan, who is Mandy Moore. She's

23:52

very religious, her father is

23:54

a reverend. She sings in

23:56

the church choir, the whole thing. She

23:59

is also popular, unlike

24:02

Landon Carter, and she

24:04

gets mocked by Landon's

24:07

friends because she's not stylish

24:09

and she wears the same sweater every

24:11

day, which is also for one of the that

24:14

was from the real person.

24:16

Okay, so the real person is based off

24:18

of Nicholas Sparks's sister, right,

24:21

Yes, who in my favorite

24:23

power move never read his book.

24:28

It did. Yeah, she said she

24:30

didn't want to know how it ended, which I feel

24:32

like he took as a sweet sentiment

24:34

and I took as a burn she's

24:37

just like, um, look, I've only got so much time

24:39

and I'm not wasting it. Yeah,

24:42

I thought it was. I didn't realize. This was

24:44

my first time realizing that it was at least

24:46

based on a true story.

24:50

But there are deviations where I believe his sister

24:52

was thirty when she passed away,

24:56

and then in the book, I guess that it's not specified

24:59

that Jamie eyes that. It's

25:01

just it says. This is what

25:03

the Wikipedia page says. I'm like, I

25:05

don't really know what this means, but

25:08

it said that it is ambiguous

25:10

whether Jamie died or simply disappeared

25:12

into the shadow world. Now I

25:14

don't know what hang on, wait,

25:17

wait, hang on, Now, that

25:19

is not unlike the ending of Titanic,

25:23

where Rose was it a dream the

25:26

shadow world. I did, in fact

25:28

make some notes about the similarities

25:30

between this movie and Titanic. Amazing

25:34

spoiler Switchfoot says

25:36

the word Titanic. Yes, they

25:39

do, amazing.

25:42

I have some parallels I would like to draw

25:44

between A Walk to Remember and another

25:47

movie, which I will I will

25:49

reveal. I guess now it's

25:52

like there's no reason

25:55

to hold back any longer. Okay,

25:57

I don't know if anyone else noticed this or thought

26:00

this. But the way Shane

26:02

West looks in this movie, to

26:05

me is identical to the way

26:07

Robert Pattinson looks in Twilight. He looks

26:09

exactly like Edward Cullen to me, I

26:12

get I see it for him to

26:14

like notice this

26:17

pale, brown haired, bookish

26:20

girl, be really mean to her

26:22

at first, and then be like, hey,

26:24

maybe we could be friends, and then they

26:26

start dating and fall in love. Except that's

26:29

basically Twilight. Jamie Sullivan,

26:32

I will say, in defense of Jamie

26:34

Sullivan, she at least has some semblance of

26:36

a backbone, unlike Bella Swan who

26:39

just does whatever Edward

26:41

Collin tells her to do. At least Jamie Sullivan

26:44

is like, no, you can't be my secret friend,

26:47

get out of here. True,

26:49

that was like good for her. Most movies in two

26:51

thousand two were not doing that.

26:54

That's true. They're like, okay, we can be friends. This

26:56

is a secret, Like fuck you, Shane

26:59

West. But I was

27:01

the whole Both times I rewatched this movie

27:03

to prep for this episode, I was like, oh my gosh,

27:05

am I just watching Edward Cullen right now.

27:08

The resemblance is simply uncanny.

27:10

True, I see it anyway. So,

27:13

because Landon has gotten

27:15

in trouble for this prank, he has to do a bunch

27:17

of community service, which includes

27:19

tutoring underprivileged students

27:22

at a nearby sychool. Yeah

27:26

yeah, yeah, the coding there is

27:29

yikes. And then also he has to

27:32

participate in the school

27:34

play, which he gets cast as

27:37

like the lead of. And I'm just like, you

27:39

know, when you're in trouble with the law

27:42

and your punishment is to be the lead

27:44

in a high school theater production,

27:46

which also, like, aside

27:49

from the fact that that is completely absurd

27:51

and like it just makes no sense.

27:54

On top of that, that sucks

27:56

for all the theater kids who

28:00

told in the first scene it's like, oh,

28:02

they're really into it. Like it's not

28:04

like they're desperate for people to audition for this

28:06

part. There's a room full of people who

28:08

want this part, and they're like, no, Shane West, you

28:11

have to do a really bad job as punishment,

28:13

Like why does everyone need to suffer through Shannon

28:16

Snaith's acting, Because like

28:20

he committed a crime, he also committed

28:22

a crime, didn't you guys?

28:24

Have that um drama teacher

28:26

who she cast her children as. All

28:28

the stars. I feel like it's not that uncommon

28:31

for school the high school theater to

28:33

be corrupted by those in power. I

28:36

had we had, like our

28:38

our high school drama instructor with like cast

28:41

football players to like try

28:44

to get to like yeah,

28:46

yeah, I mean like that. That is like definitely,

28:49

at least in my experience, something that happens Jamie.

28:51

That is what happened in this movie right right

28:53

there, just like oh, jocks, you get to

28:56

cut the line in every area

28:58

of life apparently, and it's well,

29:00

okay, I guess the rest of us will just die.

29:03

I I like that. In the play,

29:06

Mandy Moore, Moore is wearing a prom dress

29:08

underneath a trench coat. What

29:12

an interesting reveal. That wasn't

29:14

a trench coat, that was like a cult coat. That

29:17

was a cloaked like weird

29:19

ass CULTI cloak,

29:21

and underneath it it's like a two thousand and two

29:24

prom dress and you're just like, all

29:26

right, oh gosh.

29:29

So Jamie is also involved

29:31

in these activities, so

29:33

she and Landon keep running into each other,

29:36

and one day she gives him a ride

29:38

home after the school play rehearsal.

29:41

She tells him about this to do list that

29:43

she has, but she won't

29:45

tell him what number one on the list

29:47

is. Then he

29:50

wants her to help him run lines

29:52

for the play and she's like, okay, I'll help,

29:55

but you have to promise not to fall in love with

29:57

me. Oh my god. Okay. That

29:59

that really sent me back because I think that

30:01

that was the first time I've ever heard that

30:03

line in a movie, even though it's in so many movies,

30:06

And it's the funniest thing anyone can say

30:08

to another person because

30:11

how many if people have said that in

30:13

real life, how many times

30:15

has the other person actually been interested in

30:17

them? I feel like zero.

30:21

That's gonna be a really funny bit that

30:23

I'm going to start doing where a friends just

30:26

like, Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. Do you want

30:28

to go get coffee? And I'll be like, okay, but

30:30

you have to promise not to fall in off

30:32

with him.

30:35

Oh my god. She said. There are parts

30:37

of JV's character that I

30:40

don't like, dislike, but

30:42

they feel a little dissonant where she's

30:44

like made out to be like, oh,

30:46

she's like a misfit, but she

30:48

acts with such confidence

30:50

in moments like that where I'm like

30:53

this is cool girl ship, Like what's going

30:55

on where like I feel like the like

30:57

uncooled girl at school doesn't say

31:00

you have to promise not to fall in love with

31:02

me, but I appreciate

31:04

that she does. She takes a stand for all

31:06

uncool girls. And I'm sure that at least

31:09

one person who saw that movie who wasn't

31:11

cool then said that at

31:13

school and humiliated themselves. So

31:16

I know that they made a really big effort

31:19

to avoid like some character

31:21

tropes, um specifically

31:24

the glasses. They insisted no glasses.

31:29

Yeah, I just

31:31

feel like her charisma is like the

31:33

taking off of the glasses, like whenever she turned,

31:35

whenever she's like unusually flirty

31:38

for this like Bible girl, it's

31:40

like, okay, that's the glasses coming off, right.

31:43

And I don't dislike that she is

31:46

confident in herself. It just like

31:49

I guess maybe it was just like, oh, I wouldn't have

31:51

expected like the least cool girl at

31:53

school to be like fuck you and

31:55

then or like or like on the date

31:58

where she they have that like erotic temporary

32:00

tattoo moment that I totally forgot about,

32:02

like Titanic hot car scene, hot

32:05

Carr, the Christian version

32:07

of the Titanic scene where

32:10

they're like, it's temporary. It's temporary.

32:12

He's going to blow on it, but he's not touching

32:14

her. When he blows on it, it's hot.

32:17

It is hot when he blows on the temporary tattoo.

32:20

Okay anyway, So she's like, don't fall in love with

32:22

me, and he's like, yeah, right, that won't

32:25

be a problem, and then they

32:27

start running lines together at her

32:29

house. Her dad, by the way,

32:31

does not like this landing

32:34

fellow. No um, Also,

32:36

isn't it it's Peter Coyote too,

32:40

Yes, who I like sometimes learn

32:42

who that is and then I promptly forget.

32:44

He's an iconic. I feel like he's he has

32:47

that experience a lot. He's

32:49

just a famous character actor. He

32:51

is an ET. He's

32:53

in He's in a lot of ship. He's an Aaron Brockovich.

32:57

He's in all sorts of ship. And then you see him,

32:59

you're like, oh, that guy. Anyways.

33:02

Also, Landon's

33:04

mom is played by Daryl Hannah

33:07

in the worst way I've ever seen in my life.

33:09

By the way, you read the Wikipedia,

33:11

you saw the savage commentary on her.

33:14

Yeah,

33:15

then wait about

33:17

her that she got like lip injections

33:20

and that whole thing, and they're

33:23

really focused on her wig. They

33:25

really well because it's I saw like a bunch

33:27

of different explanations for that. I

33:29

thought, I like what my

33:31

takeaway was that they the wig was bad,

33:33

but I guess that she was so like famously

33:36

blonde that they're like, I guess they made a

33:38

lot of famous blonde women into Brunett's

33:41

in this movie, because Brunette

33:43

equals dramatic turn or

33:47

it did in two thousand and two. Brunette

33:49

equals agency, right, Brunette

33:52

equals a little little more

33:54

serious. Yeah, Okay.

33:57

So Jamie and Landon

34:00

are hanging out their running lines together. It seems

34:02

like maybe they could be friends. But

34:04

then he's a jerk to her at school so

34:06

that he can seem cool in front of his

34:09

cool friends, and Jamie's

34:11

like, you're a jerk, and we cannot be friends.

34:14

Love that for her, she's really

34:16

taking a stand for now, for now.

34:20

But then Landon starts

34:22

to get serious about the school play,

34:25

about his role as

34:28

a tutor, and then the

34:30

school play happens. Jamie

34:32

a k a. Mandy Moore sings that

34:35

song and

34:50

she's so breathy. I love

34:53

her, I

34:55

love her, and and she loves

34:57

switch Foot and she loves switch I'm

34:59

like, that's the those teen girl because she's, like, I

35:01

think, like a rare example

35:04

of a teen girl playing a teenager in a

35:06

movie, even though no one, I don't think any of the other

35:08

teenagers are actual teenagers,

35:10

but Mandy Moore is. No. I

35:12

mean, I don't know if you guys are going to mention it

35:14

later, but you know, Shane West

35:17

was twenty three at the time of filming

35:20

and Mandy was seventeen. Yeah,

35:22

he was like eight full years older than her, which

35:24

is uh not not great good

35:27

based on what happens next in the story,

35:29

which is they're on stage together in

35:31

the play and they kiss,

35:34

and then they kissed a bunch of other times throughout

35:36

the movie they sure do, but this but

35:39

this first kiss is

35:41

forced because it's not in the play.

35:43

It's not in the script. It's a surprise kiss,

35:46

yes, which they had to rehearse on their first

35:48

day. Yeah, I and

35:50

it's it seems like Mandy Moore and

35:53

Mandy Moore has uh I mean, she

35:55

she came out with a bunch of me

35:58

too stuff a couple of years ago that isn't

36:00

relevant to the content of this episode, but she

36:02

seems to still be friends with Shane

36:04

West. I feel like that that's more of a fault of the

36:07

production for like putting

36:09

them in this scenario in the first

36:11

place, Like that's just especially for a teen

36:14

actor and then an adult, like that's that's

36:16

just irresponsible on the productions.

36:18

And they knew that they had crushes on each other,

36:20

and the production knew they had crushes on each

36:23

other, and he I

36:25

don't again, I didn't see anything about

36:27

anything you know, storied taking

36:29

place. It's they were had to crush on each other. They

36:31

never dated um and Shane

36:34

was, you know, teaching her how to act because

36:36

she didn't know how to act. So it's a little there's a little

36:39

a little weird, there's a little I yeah, I read that

36:41

he taught her what a what a mark was

36:43

and how to hit it. He was like, oh, poor

36:46

Mandy Moore, she didn't know. I guess that

36:48

this movie was shot before The

36:50

Princess Diaries because that's like her first

36:53

credit, but it was shot after. Yeah,

36:56

yeah, okay, which is I

36:58

I liked it. In the early two thousand's there Mandy

37:00

Moore was given us more range

37:03

than a lot of teen actresses

37:05

because she played sweet Girl and she

37:07

played bully right, because she's she's

37:10

mean and Saved and Princess Diaries,

37:12

but she's an angel from heaven in

37:14

this movie, right, And then in both

37:17

Saved and A Walk to Remember,

37:19

she plays a very devout

37:22

Christian character, but on two very

37:24

different ends of a of that spectrum.

37:27

And now she's on a TV show that

37:29

my mom talks about on the phone all the

37:31

time that I'm never gonna watch this

37:34

is us, Yeah,

37:36

exactly. Okay, So

37:39

they kiss on stage and then Landon's

37:42

like, wait a minute, do I like Jamie?

37:44

Do I want to be with her? He's

37:46

breaking the one rule. He's

37:49

falling in love with her, and he wasn't supposed

37:51

to a rule breaker. You

37:53

know, he's a bad boy. He's canonically

37:56

a bad boy. He almost kills a student in the

37:58

first scene. Yeah,

38:00

but he does go visit him in the

38:03

hospital and say sorry, so

38:05

that redeems him question mark

38:08

um, even though the student is

38:10

like not understandably not very receptive

38:13

to the apologies, like, get the funk out

38:15

of here. I don't know why I want to be your friend. You like

38:17

push me off of a cliff,

38:19

or like whatevers

38:25

a bed of eels. So

38:28

yeah, Jamie is like rejecting

38:30

him and pushing him away, and she's like, you don't know

38:32

how to be a good friend. So then he

38:35

tries harder. He

38:38

gives her a new sweater. He

38:41

stands up for her when his friends play that

38:43

photoshop related prank on her at

38:45

school, which, truly, if you haven't

38:47

seen the movie, just like look up that scene

38:50

because it's even

38:52

like, even though it's like from a plot standpoint

38:54

of like, oh my god, your heart goes out to her

38:56

and and maybe that would be a horrible thing to happen

38:59

to you in two thousand too, but if

39:01

that happened to me now, I'd be like, uh

39:04

so, what is the joke here? It's

39:07

such a bad photoshop. It's like it's

39:10

more embarrassing for the person who photo shopped

39:12

it than for her. But

39:15

I do feel like that scene really captures

39:17

the like cruel scene laugh

39:20

that like still haunts me to this day.

39:22

Yeah, you run into that in real life.

39:24

Oh boy, all logic goes out the window.

39:27

You're scarred, that's true. Yeah,

39:30

So he defends her and

39:32

stands up for her when this happens, and

39:34

then he asks her out on a date,

39:37

but her dad doesn't let her date, so

39:39

then Landon asks her dad

39:41

permission to take her out, which

39:44

he relents to. So

39:46

then they go out to dinner, they

39:48

dance. It is revealed

39:50

that Shane West is shorter than Mandy

39:52

Moore. No, no, no, we don't know it in that

39:54

scene. It's then we don't. It's

39:57

after we find out she's sick, and then he says,

39:59

you too, to dance, and that montage that's

40:01

where you learn he is. He is a couple inches

40:04

shorter than her, hasn't He asked his

40:06

mom to teach him how to dance? There,

40:08

Yeah, the dances before because

40:11

the leukemia reveal is like,

40:13

to me, where the movie totally

40:16

shifted. Well, sure, yea once

40:19

our protagonist is doomed, yes,

40:23

but yeah, maybe I'm messing up the

40:25

order. It's whatever. In there's a scene

40:28

in the middle of a montage where

40:31

she teaches him how to dance and you can see

40:34

both of their full bodies and then you're

40:36

like, he's shorter than her because you can't

40:38

wear your acting shoes in a full body

40:40

shot. You're right, yeah, because she teaches

40:43

his mom. He asked his mom to teach him when

40:45

they later dance on the balcony

40:47

with no door, right right right

40:50

right the balcony door. Yes,

40:52

it's that's fascinated me for

40:54

years. I didn't pick up on it,

40:57

just like you're gonna make this sickly girl climb

40:59

out a window to look at her stars

41:03

all the balcony with no doors.

41:05

I wonder if it's like if it's like

41:07

a an Aladdin kind of deal where it's

41:09

just a curtain that leads into a

41:11

room. No, it's it's just four windows.

41:15

They also are looking through

41:18

a telescope that he builds

41:20

right in front of her, Like you would think

41:23

that he would have done that as like a surprise

41:25

gift, but he just like sets up a workshop

41:28

outside of her house, and

41:30

it's like, don't look, I

41:32

love it what I'm doing. This movie

41:35

is so goofy and corny in so many ways

41:37

where you just have to be constantly suspending

41:39

your logic. Where there's like one scene where

41:42

you find out what Jamie's

41:44

ambition in life is, which is to like witness

41:46

a miracle. But you find out because

41:49

Shane West happens to be going through

41:51

the yearbook at home alone,

41:54

Like why is he doing that he's

41:56

just we're to believe he's just sitting at

41:58

home, like to day

42:00

night, better look through my yearbook,

42:02

like I don't want to break

42:04

your mind, But I

42:06

feel like that might be one of a few instances

42:09

in this film where traditionally

42:12

he would then in a real world start

42:14

checking off. And that can't be alluded to

42:16

at all. Know, he's just like a plot

42:19

point. She wants a

42:21

miracle, does she? She wants for

42:26

it all. Wait, I'm gonna

42:29

klen as you continue to summarse, I'm gonna just

42:31

just to put my own mind at ease.

42:34

I'm going to screen cap these. Uh, these

42:36

shame west height toscripancy is to share with

42:38

the class because I swear to

42:40

God, I swear to God, it's the thing. Yes

42:44

please um. So, meanwhile,

42:46

they go out to dinner, they dance.

42:48

He helps her knock some stuff off of

42:50

her to do list, like to be in two

42:53

places at once and to get a

42:55

tattoo. That scene is really sweet,

42:57

It is pretty nice. It's so corny,

43:00

but the I remember the two places at

43:02

once seemed really vividly because Maddie

43:04

Moore gets so excited, She's like, who so

43:08

cute? And

43:10

then they kiss and he

43:12

tells her he loves her, and she's

43:15

like, I told you not to fall in love

43:17

with me. Are we going to know? He

43:19

had one job? And

43:22

then her dad is like, Jamie,

43:25

you have to be fair to him before things

43:27

get worse, and we're like, huh,

43:30

what does that mean, which

43:32

we find out shortly. But before that, Jamie

43:34

and Landen Star gaze together and

43:37

then she tells him the number one thing on her list,

43:39

which is to get married in the church

43:41

where her parents got married. And

43:44

then the big reveal, which is that

43:46

she tells him that she is sick with leukemia

43:49

and that she has stopped responding to treatment,

43:52

the implication being that she does

43:54

not have long to live. And

43:57

then he broods for a while.

44:00

God, but then he goes to his Okay,

44:02

this scene is just

44:04

story logic wise, it is so

44:07

silly. Where he goes to his He

44:09

has, of course, because every movie has

44:11

to be about fathers and sons for some reason.

44:14

Yes, he has a bad relationship with

44:16

his dad, who's like a doctor,

44:18

but he left and it's all very

44:20

like vague divorced parents stuff.

44:24

But he goes to his dad's house and it's like,

44:26

my girlfriend is dying of

44:28

cancer? Can you save her? And

44:30

his dad's kind of like, well,

44:33

no, there's not a cure for

44:35

cancer that's known, and

44:37

Shane West responds by being like, you were

44:40

never there for me, Like I

44:43

was like, yeah, but these two, these

44:45

two things are sort of unrelated, you

44:47

know. Also, his dad's like,

44:50

I'm not an oncologist. I'm a

44:52

cardiologist. For

44:55

someone who wants to be a doctor, he really

44:58

did not understand anything about medicine

45:00

at this point. True, it's

45:03

so funny that whole scene because then

45:05

it's like a million years of brooding

45:08

and Shane West driving around in his cool,

45:10

cool car and it's like, dude,

45:12

listen, like, your dad is not the

45:15

right kind of doctor. Like the situation

45:17

is still very sad, but like, of

45:20

the many things that maybe your father's

45:22

faults, this is not one of them.

45:24

Is not one of them.

45:27

So yeah, he's brooding for a while, he's

45:29

driving around in his Camaro, and

45:31

then he comes back around and he's like,

45:33

Jamie, baby, I'm

45:35

not going anywhere. And

45:37

then one day she collapses and

45:40

is rushed to the hospital and

45:42

Landon stays by her side until

45:44

she's able to go home. Because Landon's

45:47

dad arranges to pay for her private

45:50

home care, which is really nice,

45:52

and I guess a more realistic thing that he

45:54

can do instead of knowing

45:56

the care for cancer that doesn't exist.

46:00

I forgot about that plot point and

46:02

I liked it. I thought that

46:04

was very nice. But I also feel like that whole

46:06

dad plotline, like I don't really

46:08

care about it at all, except

46:11

for the moment where at

46:13

the wedding that's about to happen. The

46:16

way that his dad looks at him

46:18

at his wedding is so she

46:20

looks like he's about to burst into tears. I'm like, I don't

46:22

even know who this man is. Like what

46:26

am I looking at? Anyways? I'm

46:28

getting handed well, so

46:31

then, uh, what's his name? Landon

46:34

asks Jamie to marry

46:36

him so that she can accomplish the number

46:38

one thing on her list. So they get

46:40

married, and then Landon's

46:43

voiceover explains that they have a

46:45

beautiful summer together and that she passes

46:48

away a few months after

46:50

their wedding, and then we get a

46:52

flash forward to four years later where

46:55

Landon pays a visit to Jamie's

46:57

father. He has gotten into medical

46:59

school. Hopefully, He's

47:01

like, he's hopefully made amends with his

47:04

dad to be like, I'm so sorry. I didn't know

47:06

how doctors worked when

47:08

I was seventeen. Whoops, I overreacted

47:11

my back. And

47:14

then Jamie's father is like Landon,

47:17

by the way, Jamie did find her

47:19

miracle and it was you.

47:22

And then there's some more voice over about

47:25

how Landon will always love

47:27

Jamie and he'll always feel their

47:29

love. So that's the story. Let's take

47:32

another break and we'll come back to discuss,

47:41

and we're back. M hmmm,

47:43

We're I feel like we've we've actually covered a fear amount

47:45

of ground. Actually the recap,

47:48

yeah, we have. Since we were

47:50

briefly talking about like the fathers and sons

47:53

thing, I wanted to just say a

47:55

little bit about that, which is to

47:58

me, it feels like the big emotional

48:00

beat of this movie. That's

48:03

like the big like tear jerker. Everyone

48:05

in the audience is crying. Is that moment

48:08

where Landon goes to his dad

48:10

to say, thank you for paying for

48:12

my girlfriends like private home

48:14

care. Because he's he's crying.

48:17

They hug each other. The music swells

48:19

like lingers on this moment for

48:22

quite a while, and the cinematic language

48:25

tells you that that's the big crime

48:27

moment, and then a short

48:29

time later, couldn't care less Jamie

48:32

dies off screen. We

48:34

only know about a via voiceover. It

48:36

is not played for like that big tear

48:39

jerker moment the same way, which

48:41

I'm kind of surprised I watching

48:44

it back. I guess it would have really

48:46

emotionally wrecked me at any

48:49

age to like I didn't want to

48:51

like see her die, But they do wrap

48:53

it up so quick. I guess. I

48:55

don't know the argument there is, like it goes

48:57

out on a high note, like you see her like she's

49:00

accomplished her life's goal of

49:02

getting married, and

49:05

and then it's like, well, you

49:07

know, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that choice.

49:10

Yeah, I just I found it really kind

49:12

of bizarre that the big tear

49:15

jerker beat of the movie is the

49:18

like father son reconciliation

49:21

rather than the

49:24

death of the woman that the

49:26

main character loves.

49:30

I feel like the tormal shift I

49:32

was saying with the leukemia was

49:34

actually like more I feel like when the movie

49:37

kind of became what I understand

49:39

might be more like the book, where you

49:41

know the book is like clear that it's coming from

49:43

Landon's perspective, and the book is kind

49:46

of well Nicholas

49:48

Barks's Uh. When Nicholas

49:50

Barks spoke about writing the book, it

49:52

was like he equally wanted to like

49:55

it wasn't really about Jamie. Like when

49:57

he read the book, his thoughts are like her

50:00

husband was such a

50:02

miracle, Like who would marry

50:05

a girl they know is going to die? Like this guy

50:07

needs to be celebrated. Like

50:10

that's kind of where he was coming from.

50:12

And so I feel like that would make sense

50:14

then why his big emotional opening

50:17

is what's important. It's like, oh, Jamie taught him

50:19

how to feel, and now he

50:22

feels with his dad. I agree,

50:24

And I feel like that is like the big true

50:26

or or one of the biggest trophy issues

50:29

with this movie.

50:32

Right. It's like it in I mean,

50:34

I think even from like a screenwriting sampoint, it's

50:36

clearly Landon's story, but

50:39

it but it like uses the trope

50:41

that that has been in a lot of movies

50:44

and stories over the over

50:46

time of like a

50:49

woman dies to like teach

50:51

a guy how to kind of be a

50:53

better person. Like that is ultimately

50:56

the narrative function of like Jamie

50:58

in this world at these And I don't mean to, like,

51:02

you know, because because I know that Nicholas

51:04

Sparks's sister inspired this,

51:07

but it's not her life story. She

51:09

was a different person living at

51:11

a different time, who was in her

51:13

late twenties, not in high school, you

51:15

know. And I like the way this movie was adapted

51:18

clearly falls into that trope of like

51:21

Jamie, while I feel like Jamie is like a

51:23

better developed character than

51:25

most young women who are put

51:27

in that role, and like there

51:30

are things that I was kind of not like

51:32

impressed as a little bit strong, but I

51:34

was surprised that there was

51:36

a lot about Jamie that like she didn't

51:39

do the the grease thing

51:41

or the what the like she's all that thing

51:43

where she totally changed and at the end she's

51:45

popular, like she does

51:48

stay. She she changes a little

51:50

bit, but like for the most part, she's pretty consistent

51:52

and like she's always church

51:54

girl and she's not gonna like

51:57

change what her values are. And

51:59

for the for the most part, like I thought that was like,

52:01

oh, that's a little bit different, but she still

52:04

ultimately is like sacrificed

52:06

and what the takeaway feels

52:08

like And now Shane West knows

52:10

that he can go to med school

52:12

and he doesn't need to be a high school bully. And it's

52:14

like, well, was it worth it?

52:17

Was it really worth it? I don't know, right,

52:20

Yeah, that is such a

52:22

trope where the function of

52:25

a lot of female characters,

52:27

whether or not they die depends

52:30

on kind of the story, but the function of a lot

52:32

of the of characters. It's sort

52:34

of like the burden is on women

52:38

to teach men how

52:40

to be a good person and

52:42

like how to feel feelings and stuff.

52:45

I don't know too much, Like I I do

52:47

recognize this trope, I don't know too much about

52:49

it, like uh, scholarly. But

52:52

I also feel like this kind of has

52:54

to do with the religious overtones too,

52:57

because I feel like the tone

53:00

it's basically like it feels

53:02

like this movie is celebrating the mercy

53:04

that land In bestows upon Jamie,

53:07

and it's really about like his like

53:09

not only his transformation, but like how

53:12

much he put into this

53:14

relationship by being with a

53:16

person with leukemia, which feels

53:18

very ablest, but also like the

53:21

idea of mercy. Like even

53:23

in the Bible, you know, women are often literally

53:26

just plotlines for male characters

53:28

in the Bible. Um, so I feel

53:30

like there's also that aspect of it that,

53:33

like I guess only

53:35

hearing you talk about the trope really connected

53:37

the two for me. And when I was googling, like I

53:39

was trying to find out what the genre is

53:41

of like Christian movies, and the

53:43

only thing I could find that was like scholarly

53:46

was connecting them to the

53:48

religious melodramas

53:51

like plays and stuff. Um,

53:53

So it feels like this, even

53:55

though I could not find any confirmation why this

53:57

was so Christian or that this is

54:00

even seemed to be considered a Christian film,

54:02

it's not on pure Flix. I

54:04

just feel like it's

54:07

definitely that we have to do a pure Flix.

54:10

I only found that from this it's

54:12

oh yeah, there. I think

54:14

I'm pretty sure. Maggie may

54:17

Fish has covered a couple of movies

54:19

on her YouTube channel that are I think they were originally

54:21

on pure Flix. But like Rob Schneider

54:24

appears in a lot of pure Flix movies,

54:26

there's like it's it's it's

54:28

exactly what it sounds like. It's Christian Netflix,

54:31

but it just sounds absolutely

54:34

wild, which I did watch

54:37

again, I went on too deep of the dive. I

54:39

did watch a YouTube clip of

54:41

the VHS commercials from

54:43

the VHS release of this film,

54:46

um, and they did include a

54:49

preview for a movie that is on

54:51

Pure Flix. So again I'm like,

54:53

where is this Christian money coming from? And why

54:56

is it unngogle able? Like it's

54:59

very strange. I it is. I

55:01

mean, I guess I I didn't

55:03

go back and do the full

55:05

like recap. I feel like for a very

55:08

mainstream, successful movie, this

55:10

movie is unusually Christian,

55:14

where, if you know, the further you go back in American

55:16

movies, I like, the more Christian

55:18

outwardly Christian they get, and more

55:21

you like you see the themes of mercy

55:23

and faith come up more often. But

55:25

by the early two thousands, I feel like it is

55:27

kind of a usual. I

55:29

don't know but that, but I could be wrong,

55:31

but you think like Saved came out after this

55:34

and that is very critical of Christianity,

55:37

Like I feel like that was more common by that point. I don't

55:39

know. I will say that, and

55:41

this is coming from someone who

55:44

was raised as an atheist

55:47

and tends to shy away

55:49

from Christian media or any

55:51

like entertainment that has strong Christian

55:55

under or overtones. I

55:58

didn't necessarily I

56:00

didn't mind the Christianity

56:04

in this or like the I didn't mind the

56:06

religious themes

56:08

in this because none

56:11

of the characters who have a strong Christian

56:13

faith are using their faith to justify

56:16

toxic attitudes and ideologies

56:18

that some Christians have, such

56:21

as you know, homophobia, transphobia,

56:24

racism, anti choice, anti

56:27

bodily autonomy, you know, all that stuff.

56:30

And when I'm critical of religion, it's

56:32

those displays of toxicity and

56:34

intolerance that I'm critical of. But

56:37

we don't see any of that in this movie. The

56:39

characters aren't doing anything like that. They're

56:41

just you know, living their lives

56:44

and not hurting anybody

56:47

or being prejudiced towards anybody.

56:49

But there's not really anyone to be prejudice of,

56:52

you know, because everyone is straight

56:54

at this high school. Well, but there's

56:56

also there maybe

56:59

people of color, and that's not counting if

57:01

they reuse background actors, Like I

57:03

think, to me, it's like I could

57:05

get into the headspace of this being like,

57:08

I agree with you, it's not used. When

57:11

you were talking, it made me think of Josie and the Pussycats,

57:13

Like I feel like religion in this movie is like product

57:16

placement in that where it's like almost

57:18

like, no, we get it, like

57:21

we're putting it in front of there, but then because it's religious

57:23

and like, but wait, maybe they're like, I

57:25

don't know, it feels sinister, but that

57:27

might just be because the

57:29

church is weird. I kind of I I

57:32

agree with with what you're both

57:34

saying where I felt like the way that Christianity

57:37

was presented in this movie was pretty inoffensive.

57:40

But then I was like, but maybe that's not good, you

57:42

know, because because

57:44

this movie I don't I

57:47

don't know, And ultimately it's it's I

57:49

get kind of like lost in the sauce there because

57:51

it's like either someone is not

57:53

really thinking about it very hard, or someone's

57:55

thinking about it really hard. Has

57:58

it in the way that like Christian and He's

58:00

presented in this movie, because I feel like it is. It's

58:03

you know, like less harmful

58:06

tenants that are being used in

58:08

this movie of like forgiveness

58:10

and like give people a chance, And

58:13

I mean the way that that's kind of implemented does

58:15

lend itself to a lot of Shane

58:17

was toxic behavior kind of being

58:20

forgiven a little to christ

58:22

Like maybe, but

58:25

but it does I don't know. Yeah, Like

58:27

ultimately I'm like I do. I

58:30

do remember recognizing

58:32

that there were christian elements to this story,

58:34

but I think because someone else

58:36

pointed it out to me. I don't think I would have gotten there on my

58:38

own, but there was like a parent or someone who

58:40

was just like, oh, it's like churchy

58:43

ship makes me sick or

58:45

like whatever, But like, how did we not pick

58:47

it up as a kid? It was just kind of there. Well,

58:49

how how old were the two of

58:51

you? Because like that was the only thing I remembered

58:53

about this movie. I was like, Oh, it's the movie

58:56

about the girl with cancer

58:58

and she's very devoutly

59:01

Christian like that. That was like the main thing

59:03

I remembered about this movie. I

59:05

was your age, but I was, you know, not

59:08

aware of my bisexuality at the time, So

59:11

I was just horny this whole movie, and that

59:13

was all I could see. I was

59:15

nine, so I didn't know shit about

59:18

shit. I just wanted people

59:21

kissing and singing.

59:24

Uh. But

59:26

but I do I mean, it's like, I don't know. I think

59:28

that there's definitely arguments for both sides of the way

59:31

that Christianity is presented in this movie,

59:33

where I'm glad that the negative

59:35

aspects of Christianity didn't enter the plot,

59:37

but also it feels bizarre to just ignore

59:40

them as if they don't exist, and it's like

59:42

it's it's completely uncritical presentation

59:45

of Christianity to the point where I feel like they almost

59:48

like reverse a

59:50

priest trope that you like. When

59:52

you start watching the movie, you're like, oh,

59:55

you know her, her dad is by nature

59:57

of his job, very religious, so he's going to

59:59

be very a Steve and he doesn't want her to date. But

1:00:01

it turns out the reason that he doesn't want her to date

1:00:03

is not just because he's a priest. It's because

1:00:06

he doesn't like she's

1:00:08

also sick and there's like other things going on

1:00:10

that we don't know. So I feel like that the movie

1:00:12

kind of makes the priest look better as

1:00:15

the movie goes on, because you're like, oh, he's

1:00:17

not being mean because of

1:00:19

religion. He's being mean because his daughter is

1:00:21

really sick and he doesn't know what to do, like which

1:00:24

kind of I don't know. For me on this rewatch

1:00:26

made me not be like, oh,

1:00:28

he should be restricting his daughter's

1:00:31

behavior, but at

1:00:33

least it gave some context and it

1:00:35

wasn't just the trope of like religious

1:00:37

dad equals controlling and oppressive.

1:00:40

The more we talk about this, I wonder

1:00:42

because the first time we see the father, who

1:00:45

is the pastor at the only church

1:00:47

in town where all the bad kids go, no,

1:00:52

but when we meet him, it's the mom. The

1:00:54

line right before is the mom saying you need

1:00:56

a father, and she's talking about how he doesn't

1:00:59

talk to his dad, and then it us to him.

1:01:01

And now I'm just thinking, like, because Mandy

1:01:03

Moore didn't know how to act. Apparently

1:01:05

Shane West taught her the Marker thing, but she was

1:01:07

very natural and this was her first film.

1:01:09

Like I wonder if the like

1:01:12

not intention but like I wonder if it hadn't been her,

1:01:15

would we be reading more into like how

1:01:18

the pastor kind of becomes his father figure,

1:01:21

and like how their relationship is

1:01:23

actually more about like both of them

1:01:26

men, like learning how to have a son, learning

1:01:28

how to have a father, learning how to be family

1:01:30

with boys. And Mandy

1:01:32

Moore was just so good at

1:01:35

the role that she was given that that kind

1:01:37

of got pushed aside for more of like us caring

1:01:39

about Jamie. Like I feel like we as

1:01:41

the audience care a lot more about Jamie than it

1:01:43

feels like the script in like intended

1:01:46

or pushed for. Yeah,

1:01:48

I mean she really is, Like I

1:01:52

think Mandy Moore's performance does hold

1:01:54

up in this movie. She's so Mandy

1:01:57

Moore, Like she's just so Flee

1:02:00

and you're even when

1:02:02

the character is like kind

1:02:05

of all over the place, You're like, I'm rooting

1:02:07

for I wanted to hit her mark. I

1:02:10

wanted to take off her scary cloak and sing

1:02:12

a song. Um I

1:02:15

I agree with you, Sam, I think that, Yeah, there are

1:02:17

certain I hadn't even it hadn't even occurred

1:02:20

to me that the priest kind of ends up taking on this

1:02:22

fatherly role. I mean, what is the Bible

1:02:24

but yet another story about fathers and sons

1:02:27

true, the ultimate one maybe the

1:02:29

Father's son and the Holy

1:02:31

Spirit is Mandy

1:02:34

wo wow. I

1:02:36

bet that's Cannon. That's gotta

1:02:39

be Cane. I mean, that's Catholic.

1:02:41

Nicholas Sparks is Catholic. Print

1:02:44

It all makes sense. And I do think that there's

1:02:46

like it's implied or I feel like the story

1:02:49

is suggesting that the reason that

1:02:51

Shane West character is such a rebel,

1:02:54

bad bad kid, you know, like

1:02:56

on the wrong side of the tracks at the beginning of the movie is

1:02:59

because his parents are divorced. There

1:03:02

is a part where Daryl Hannah says

1:03:04

to Shane West's character, She's

1:03:07

like, you need a father, because

1:03:09

she's trying to get him to forgive

1:03:12

his dad, who he's estranged with, and

1:03:14

she's like a boy needs us

1:03:16

dad kind of thing, and which I

1:03:18

think is like kind of mean to her character because

1:03:20

she seems to be a really good mom who really cares

1:03:23

about her son, and like, we don't

1:03:25

really the only thing we know is that something's

1:03:28

going on over their lips. Her hair is

1:03:30

a mess, but she loves And the other

1:03:32

thing you know is that she loves and is very supportive

1:03:34

of Shane West. Like the way he's

1:03:37

acting out would not suggest

1:03:39

that he like that the parent he lives

1:03:41

with is very doting and caring

1:03:43

about him. I don't know. I just thought that

1:03:45

was like he ends with an evil boy

1:03:48

he's friends with, like a truly evil

1:03:51

boy. That boy was really evil.

1:03:54

Yeah. I don't know that character's name, but

1:03:56

I don't need it. We're

1:04:00

talking about the guy that like later in

1:04:02

the cafeteria, he's like, get away

1:04:04

from me, man, Like we're through.

1:04:06

He's the guy. Yeah, that broke up with Shane

1:04:08

West and You're like, who are you?

1:04:11

Yeah, I was like, who the hell is this

1:04:13

man? No idea. UM.

1:04:16

What I want to make clear here is that

1:04:19

and I don't know a whole lot about the teachings

1:04:21

of Christianity, not having grown

1:04:24

up in the church but sick,

1:04:28

but like, I want to make it clear that, like, there

1:04:30

are many Christians, including

1:04:33

many listeners of this podcast, who

1:04:36

because I want to avoid making any sweeping

1:04:39

generalizations about religious people and

1:04:41

Christians specifically, because again,

1:04:43

there are a lot of Christians who are very tolerant

1:04:46

and very progressive and who

1:04:48

are the opposite of that

1:04:50

kind of stereotypical Bible

1:04:53

thumping religious right that

1:04:55

I think some people have come

1:04:57

to associate Christianity with. And

1:05:00

this is this is like kind of one of the best

1:05:03

depictions of Christianity because it does

1:05:05

like you said, it doesn't have any opportunities

1:05:08

for the bad stuff. It's all just about kindness

1:05:10

and love and coming together. It

1:05:13

is very Christian in the true sense of

1:05:15

the word. I think my

1:05:17

my fascination with it just comes

1:05:19

from not the religion and not the

1:05:22

um, not people who are

1:05:24

religious, but from the way that the Church operates

1:05:26

specifically the Roman Catholic Church. So that's

1:05:29

kind of where my perspective comes in of like, it's

1:05:32

not the word, and it's not the people that

1:05:34

are in my opinion, that's

1:05:37

not really where the problem lies as much

1:05:39

as the people who are administering things and

1:05:42

the specific you know, we all know about the Roman Catholic

1:05:44

Church. There's lots to be suspective, right,

1:05:47

It's more, Yeah, it's the institution

1:05:50

of religion that or the people

1:05:52

who use Christianity

1:05:54

as an excuse to perpetuate their own

1:05:56

bigotry. Like that's obviously

1:05:59

what there is to be critical about, not the

1:06:01

things that Jesus taught and promoted

1:06:04

according to the Bible, and not

1:06:06

the idea of the

1:06:08

religion itself kind of thing. Yeah,

1:06:11

Yeah, it's more like the indoctrination,

1:06:13

which could be said of any organization. To

1:06:15

me, that's always what's fascinating and any

1:06:18

organized religion too. Yeah, but

1:06:20

there's always some sort of indoctrination

1:06:23

process for different organizations,

1:06:25

and that always fascinates me, Like how do you

1:06:27

take a nonbeliever to a believer? Right?

1:06:30

And it's I mean, in Jamie's

1:06:32

case, it's almost certainly that she's just

1:06:34

like indoctrination since birth stuff.

1:06:37

Um either that or she is like there is a lot

1:06:39

of argument for and again it's

1:06:42

like, yeah, the the the

1:06:44

elements of Christianity that are presented

1:06:46

in this movie are not bad

1:06:49

things necessarily. It's like Jamie

1:06:51

is presented as this as this very like almost like

1:06:53

a very christlike figure who is extremely

1:06:56

forgiving of the people around

1:06:58

her, to the point we're coming from

1:07:00

a teenager, You're like, huh, Like,

1:07:03

uh, you know, is very forgiving,

1:07:05

has faith in people's ability

1:07:08

to grow and change in

1:07:10

a way that most teenagers

1:07:12

do not. Uh,

1:07:15

and on and on and then and then she's

1:07:18

sacrifice at the end of the movie, and

1:07:20

then her love exists in the wind, and I'm like, she's

1:07:22

basically the Jesus of the movie. And

1:07:25

I don't hate It's like I do like

1:07:27

Jav's character. I like

1:07:30

her. I'm rooting for her. I

1:07:32

like when I don't know, even just like remembering

1:07:34

seeing the movie as a kid and like watching

1:07:38

for all of its flaws, Like as a kid seeing

1:07:41

the like girl who's like a little different

1:07:43

be asked like you don't care what people think of you?

1:07:46

And she just says no. I was like that's kind

1:07:48

of cool, Like, even though it's maybe not the

1:07:50

most realistic reaction, that's

1:07:52

a cool thing to see in a movie

1:07:55

if you're like a kind of weird kid

1:07:57

where you're like, wow, this girl doesn't give a ship

1:08:00

and like, I don't know,

1:08:02

there are things to be said for

1:08:04

for the way her characters presented. It's not hyper

1:08:06

realistic teen chit, but like,

1:08:09

nothing in this movie is she's

1:08:11

a superhuman Christian

1:08:13

angel sent from God

1:08:15

to sing choir songs in

1:08:18

the play. Yeah, she's

1:08:20

not a real person. I guess what I'll

1:08:22

say is like that is how I viewed the movie too,

1:08:25

and I feel like it would still be that movie

1:08:27

without the religious element. So that's my

1:08:29

only question is like it feels

1:08:31

layered on in a way that I wonder

1:08:33

why. I wonder how religious

1:08:35

his sister was, like, or how big of a

1:08:37

part of her story that was. Yeah,

1:08:39

all I could find was that she did carry a Bible around.

1:08:42

But like they even took the Bible out of this film.

1:08:44

They made it a book full of quotes like

1:08:47

Dolly Parton. I like Dolly Parton.

1:08:49

I was like, wow, Jesus

1:08:51

thought Dolly Parton was really smart, because

1:08:54

that's what Jamie said, did

1:08:56

Dolly Parton fund this movie? Oh my god?

1:08:59

What if Dolly Parton Christian? Yeah?

1:09:02

Okay, I did not. I

1:09:04

was like, I guess I don't know anything about her relige.

1:09:08

I don't know. I just other than the fact that she's Miley

1:09:10

Cyrus's godmother. Miley Cyrus another

1:09:12

Nicholas Sparks star. Oh that's true.

1:09:15

Which one is that? That's the last

1:09:17

song? Question mark? I'm

1:09:20

pretty sure I saw that in theaters. Is that

1:09:22

the one Channing Tatum isn't or is that a different

1:09:24

movie? I think so?

1:09:26

Oh no, wait, he's I hope not. Wait he's

1:09:28

like kind of old for her, isn't he? No?

1:09:31

I think that it's Isn't that how she met her?

1:09:33

The guy that she married was through that Nicholas

1:09:35

Sparks movie. And it's Chris Hemsworth's

1:09:37

brother. Oh yeah,

1:09:40

that's it's Liam Hemsworth. Okay,

1:09:42

so the okay, what's the Channing Oh

1:09:44

the Channing Tatum one is

1:09:47

Dear John? Which is him?

1:09:50

Cyphrid God?

1:09:53

So many white actors?

1:09:57

Uh? Wild? I

1:10:00

wanted to I wanted to talk really

1:10:03

quick about another character slash

1:10:05

storyline that I found baffling

1:10:08

and maybe I'll say it not necessary

1:10:11

to the movie, which is Langdon's

1:10:14

ex girlfriend or Landon.

1:10:16

I keep wanting to say Langdon as in Robert

1:10:18

Langdon from

1:10:20

another Christian text, the Da Vinci

1:10:23

Code. Oh my gosh, we did bring up

1:10:25

Mona Lisa earlier, so I

1:10:28

always have Da Vinci Code on the brain Baby,

1:10:31

I'll never stop. But

1:10:35

the whole thing was so

1:10:38

so the deal with I don't think she even came

1:10:40

up really in the summary because

1:10:43

she doesn't need to be in the movie. I left her

1:10:45

out of the of the summary.

1:10:47

So her deal is what's her name? Her name

1:10:49

is like Barbara, have no idea, Josephine,

1:10:53

Belinda, Belinda, Belinda,

1:10:57

so Belinda, which again I'm like,

1:10:59

what year is this movie taking place in. Belinda

1:11:03

is Shane West's ex girl

1:11:06

friend who

1:11:08

wants to get back together with him, but he's not interested.

1:11:11

She is really forcing the issue. She

1:11:13

gets very jealous of Jamie

1:11:15

when it becomes clear that Shane West

1:11:18

is interested in Jamie. She

1:11:20

does the photoshop praying

1:11:24

Jamie's hurt, and then Belinda

1:11:27

later apologizes to Shane

1:11:29

West about that, but not

1:11:31

to Jamie, who is in the adjacent

1:11:34

I think she's like, right, there isn't

1:11:36

she like, doesn't she apologize to Shane

1:11:38

West for what she did to Jamie in front of Jamie's

1:11:40

house, And it's like, you need to apologize

1:11:43

to her? Oh okay, I was like, she needs apologize

1:11:45

to Jamie. All of those guys none of them apologized

1:11:48

to Jamie. They all apologize to him, right,

1:11:51

No one apologizes to the right people in this movie,

1:11:53

because we'll get to this later. But when we

1:11:55

talk about like the relationship between Landon

1:11:58

and Jamie, but she apolo gize

1:12:00

is to him after he gets mad

1:12:03

that she has cancer and

1:12:05

she's like, I'm so sorry that I have cancer.

1:12:07

I should have told you sooner. And he's like it's

1:12:10

okay, Well that's like he's

1:12:12

not. He's like, no, you doubt

1:12:14

you're perfect, You're eighteen, and

1:12:17

then she runs away. He doesn't chase her. Instead,

1:12:19

he drives to a mysterious

1:12:22

city where his dad is and then he drives

1:12:24

into the night, and then the

1:12:26

one person of color main

1:12:28

character in the film, Eric

1:12:31

comes to check and Rand the most like

1:12:33

the most hyper sexual racist

1:12:35

depiction and also the best, the

1:12:37

most complex of the group, and the best

1:12:40

friend of them all. It seems yes, so

1:12:43

quick sidebar about that character. So that's

1:12:46

Eric. He easily he

1:12:48

falls into the black best friend trope

1:12:51

because he's Landon's best friend. He

1:12:53

has characterized in a very

1:12:55

harmful trophy way in which he

1:12:57

in basically every scene he's in is

1:13:00

making comments that are extremely like sexually

1:13:03

aggressive, and that's

1:13:05

really all we know about that character. So

1:13:08

that's bad. It's really frustrating.

1:13:10

Yeah, it's like falling into all

1:13:13

of the tropes of the

1:13:15

black best friend is like we know nothing

1:13:17

about him other than he is

1:13:20

there to deliver, you know, Devil's

1:13:22

advocate views on what's going on

1:13:24

to Shane West. Like he'll come in and be

1:13:26

like, well, well, what if Jamie isn't

1:13:28

the love of your life? And Shane West is like, never she

1:13:31

is, and he's like all right, like there,

1:13:33

he's just like there to like he's

1:13:36

only there to demonstrate at various

1:13:38

scenes in the movie that Shane West is changing

1:13:40

as a character, like that's the

1:13:42

only and Eric, I guess you could argue changes

1:13:45

a little bit where he becomes less of

1:13:47

an asshole unless of a bully

1:13:49

about the fact that Shane West

1:13:51

is dating Jamie, But that's such a small

1:13:53

change. That's only in relation to his

1:13:56

friend, Like you know nothing about him outside

1:13:58

of that it. Yeah,

1:14:00

it's it sucks because I don't I don't

1:14:02

think I've seen that actor in anything else. But

1:14:04

I enjoyed his performance. I thought it

1:14:06

was fun. I read that he and Shane

1:14:09

West made up that really

1:14:11

long handshake that they do, which

1:14:14

I was like, well, that's fun. I guess that's

1:14:17

the only time in the film that smoking is

1:14:19

alluded to, which I thought was an interesting bad

1:14:21

boy trope. Yeah,

1:14:24

they do a little like smoking weed

1:14:28

thing. That actor's

1:14:30

name is al Thompson. He's

1:14:32

been working pretty steadily, it seems, over

1:14:35

the years, So good for him. Okay, I just I

1:14:37

just saw his Wikipedia page was a stub

1:14:40

so and that was where my research ended.

1:14:42

I think he does a lot of TV in

1:14:45

mostly kind of like small bit roles

1:14:48

kind of thing, got it. But yeah, so

1:14:50

I thought like his performance was really

1:14:53

fun and there was room to

1:14:55

include him more meaningfully

1:14:57

where he like, I don't know, it's like why

1:15:00

not get rid of the like girlfriend

1:15:02

ex girlfriend, like evil girl side

1:15:04

plot, and like make room

1:15:06

for the best friend. I like, all of his scenes

1:15:08

are enjoyable, but he only exists in relation

1:15:11

to Land in right,

1:15:13

Like, I agree that girl. I didn't even know

1:15:15

she was an ex girlfriend until I looked on Wikipedia.

1:15:19

Um, I just knew that she was some girl who wanted

1:15:21

to be with him somehow. One

1:15:24

thing I noticed that I don't. I might just be

1:15:27

drawing a string to nowhere. But did

1:15:29

you notice how when she does apologize, she's wearing a pink

1:15:31

sweater, just like the one that he gave Jamie. WHOA,

1:15:34

I didn't not notice that. I

1:15:37

don't know if that's like her signal like

1:15:40

now she's a good person too or whatever.

1:15:43

Everyone who wears a pink sweater is a good

1:15:45

person. Amazing

1:15:49

God. So back to the Jamie

1:15:52

does apologize to Shane. That so after

1:15:54

that scene where he's talking to Eric

1:15:56

and they like have a little

1:15:59

bit of a reckon silly and I think that's the that

1:16:01

part of the movie. But then Jamie

1:16:03

comes up to Landed as

1:16:05

he's like fixing his Camaro and

1:16:07

she's like, I'm sorry, I

1:16:10

should have told you sooner, and he's

1:16:12

like shrug, let's

1:16:14

kiss, and it's like, why are you apologizing

1:16:16

Jamie? Yeah, anyway,

1:16:19

it was That's like another one of the

1:16:21

more obvious, like ablest scenes where

1:16:23

it's like you ditched her, you didn't

1:16:25

support her when she was like coming out with this big

1:16:27

news, and now you're like, she makes

1:16:29

a joke like something about dying.

1:16:32

Does anybody remember? Yeah, she says. He's

1:16:34

like, are you scared? And she says to death

1:16:37

and then he's like geez, and she's

1:16:39

like, lighten up. I'm the one who's

1:16:41

dying. I can joke about this if I want.

1:16:44

She's like, can you can chill for a second.

1:16:47

So and so that was on a tangent of

1:16:50

no one apologizing to Jamie

1:16:53

right when it's she's owed several

1:16:56

apologies, but everyone's like, oh, she's

1:16:58

she's so christ Like, she'll forgive. I guess

1:17:00

I'll just apologize to a random

1:17:03

person who has nothing to do with the situation, or

1:17:05

I'll make her apologize to me for some reason,

1:17:08

Like it is. It is frustrating,

1:17:10

and I feel like that is like one of the something

1:17:12

we haven't really gotten to yet is just like, especially

1:17:16

in the early days of this

1:17:18

relationship, just like how toxic

1:17:20

and fraud this relationship is from the jump,

1:17:22

and how Jamie's extreme

1:17:25

willingness to forgive and believe

1:17:27

that people can change absolves

1:17:30

him of this behavior in a way that he never

1:17:32

really meaningfully apologizes

1:17:34

for. Where at the beginning of the like

1:17:37

for the whole first half hour of the

1:17:39

movie before he's like, Okay, I want

1:17:41

to be in this play and I want to work

1:17:43

with you. Up unto that point, he

1:17:45

is like mean to her. He's

1:17:48

like, I know I've known you my whole life, but I don't I

1:17:50

don't give a shit about you, essentially,

1:17:53

and then once he realizes, oh, I do like

1:17:56

her, he comes the most Like

1:17:58

the moment that I didn't remember in the movie

1:18:01

that I was like, how dare you was when he goes

1:18:03

to her house and asks her to be his

1:18:05

friend but in secret so you can still

1:18:07

be popular. And I was like, the fucking

1:18:09

nerve like that for

1:18:11

me is where I'm like, no

1:18:14

matter how forgiving a person I am, I'm tapping

1:18:16

out right there. That is that is

1:18:18

a horrible thing to do,

1:18:21

to even attempt to do. It's also

1:18:23

like you said, like what time period are

1:18:25

you in? Like I could see in the fifties a

1:18:27

guy asking that, like, you know,

1:18:29

how it is I'm the popular guy. I don't know, I don't

1:18:32

know what voice that was, but you

1:18:34

know, I'm the popular kid. We all know the

1:18:36

rules of the high school. Like, I feel like that

1:18:38

would have been much more nineteen fifties,

1:18:40

where it's like, you know, this relationship, it's

1:18:42

so common to us, but not

1:18:45

in the nineties. Yeah, and

1:18:47

it's like, I'm glad that Jamie tells him

1:18:49

to funk off in that moment and she's like,

1:18:51

you know, but but the fact that

1:18:54

he still gets a second chance

1:18:56

without really apologizing and just

1:18:58

by being like, hey,

1:19:00

I've decided to be your friend publicly, like

1:19:03

that is very warranting of a second fuck

1:19:05

you. But she's like, Okay, let's try

1:19:08

it, you know. But she's Jesus,

1:19:10

so it's hard, right, And he's like, but I

1:19:12

got you this sweater. Everything's

1:19:15

fine now, right. Um.

1:19:17

We talked about this on the Beauty and the Beast

1:19:19

episode and other episodes. But like the

1:19:21

the idea of like the burden of forgiveness,

1:19:24

often in a like hetero

1:19:26

romantic context, is often

1:19:29

placed on the woman to

1:19:32

forgive the man

1:19:35

for his often

1:19:38

toxic bad behavior,

1:19:40

which again we see a lot of in this movie,

1:19:43

where for the first several of their

1:19:45

interactions he's really

1:19:47

mean to her, he makes fun of her, He's like, oh,

1:19:49

you're carrying around this bible, you

1:19:52

loser with your one sweater, you

1:19:55

like stars and planets. Gross,

1:19:57

Like he's like bullying

1:20:00

her for the random ist ship. He's like, how

1:20:02

dare you have an interest in astronomy.

1:20:04

I'm like, I've never seen someone bullied for this before.

1:20:07

This is interesting and I like that.

1:20:09

She's like, yeah, sure, I'm the

1:20:11

pastor's daughter, but but science does

1:20:14

exist as like okay,

1:20:16

movie not not not too bad. And

1:20:19

then there's that scene where he, even after he

1:20:21

starts to fall for her, he

1:20:23

comes at her after school and like

1:20:25

tells her how she feels. And

1:20:28

then plot wise, that ends up being

1:20:30

that he's right where he's like, you're

1:20:32

hiding behind religion and astronomy

1:20:36

and all this stuff. Like he just

1:20:38

names all of her interests and it's like, and

1:20:40

that's what you're doing instead of admitting

1:20:42

that you're in love with me? And then and

1:20:44

then she's like, wait a minute, maybe he's onto

1:20:47

something. And we're like what you just

1:20:49

like you can like

1:20:51

things and have a crush on an

1:20:53

asshole. I was gonna

1:20:56

say again, coming from the horny lens

1:20:58

that I first viewed this in, it

1:21:00

was like I don't care he's hot

1:21:02

and now he's into me, Like I feel like my

1:21:05

my horny brain doesn't doesn't register.

1:21:07

And I do feel like this movie. One of the reasons

1:21:09

I want to talk about it was just because, like the

1:21:11

thing you're saying about forgiveness coming from the woman,

1:21:13

I feel like a lot of tropes that are in this

1:21:16

movie can contribute

1:21:18

to like toxic masculinity in

1:21:20

the way that a boy would interpret

1:21:22

it. And I know with the guy who

1:21:25

my that first boyfriend that was

1:21:27

obsessed with this movie, you know, had of

1:21:29

a lot of the toxic romantic kind

1:21:31

of ideas of like, no, I'm making the

1:21:34

romance for you know, I broke up with him

1:21:36

and he did not take it well like I guess

1:21:38

trigger warning. But nothing happened. But um,

1:21:41

you know, just like how this is the perfect

1:21:44

this the way the tropes are in this movie are

1:21:46

like the perfect timeline

1:21:48

and the perfect way it could go. But a lot of

1:21:50

the habits that are being reinforced,

1:21:53

you know, can be used in a toxic

1:21:55

way in other situations. Yeah,

1:21:59

and then another one

1:22:01

that I mean we haven't specifically

1:22:03

defined, but something that happens

1:22:07

is that he basically he just wears her down the

1:22:09

way that we've seen in tons

1:22:12

and tons of movies, and this

1:22:14

seems to be a Nicholas Sparks

1:22:17

thing that he recycles over and over again.

1:22:20

Because he's writing very popular

1:22:22

heterosexual love stories, there's probably

1:22:24

a lot of that going on. But that's like the Notebook, Oh

1:22:26

gosh, one oh one. So

1:22:28

we see that with the Landing character.

1:22:31

She keeps saying, no, we

1:22:33

can't be friends. You've treated me

1:22:36

badly, leave me alone,

1:22:38

and then he keeps coming back around

1:22:41

and basically trying to sweeten

1:22:43

her up with gifts and friendship.

1:22:47

And it's like what get away quick

1:22:49

comment was when he was first trying to get

1:22:51

back in her good graces after I

1:22:54

forget what thing he did, but where he was

1:22:56

like bringing her flowers obviously every day.

1:22:58

I was just like, Okay, you know this girl is dying

1:23:01

and now you've made her house to look like a memorial. Like

1:23:04

take a step back, maybe, thinking through

1:23:06

Landing, like she's not dead yet, She's

1:23:09

not right because they're

1:23:11

okay. So there are kind of two separate times

1:23:13

where he needs to or he's

1:23:16

trying to redeem himself. The first time when

1:23:18

he realizes he likes her and he's

1:23:20

actually trying to get with her. Then they

1:23:22

get together and they profess their love

1:23:24

for each other, and then when

1:23:27

she tells him I have

1:23:29

leukemia, I'm dying, and

1:23:31

he flips his ship

1:23:34

about it and is like, why

1:23:36

didn't you tell me this sooner? You owed

1:23:39

telling me this? And then he like

1:23:41

storms off, and then we

1:23:44

don't even know how she reacts

1:23:46

to that, because the movie does not check

1:23:48

in with her at all during this period.

1:23:50

We just watch him brooding for like

1:23:54

and minutes of screen time that it is

1:23:56

dead for not knowing the cure to cancer right.

1:24:00

And then when he finally does come

1:24:02

back around, he talks to her

1:24:04

dad. He doesn't even talk to her at first.

1:24:06

He's just like, don't worry, I'm

1:24:08

not going anywhere. Tell Jamie,

1:24:11

can you pass along the message? It's like, well,

1:24:13

can you talk to her face to face and apologize

1:24:16

to her? But instead of that happening, when

1:24:18

they do finally come face to face, she's

1:24:20

the one to apologize to him, and it's just

1:24:23

like, are you joking me

1:24:25

right now? So bless Her dad was also

1:24:27

in that, like telling her like, you gotta tell

1:24:29

him before it's too late. Like obviously

1:24:32

that messaging was not just coming from Landed,

1:24:34

it was coming from the people around her,

1:24:36

right. Well, That's like part of what I find

1:24:39

frustrating about the love story in this movie, because

1:24:41

it's not like I don't know I

1:24:44

it's not like you can't in life

1:24:47

start with like, you know, how

1:24:50

do I want to phrase this? I feel like this

1:24:53

this movie could have been an interesting opportunity

1:24:55

to write someone someone's behavior

1:24:58

meaningfully changing and a way

1:25:00

that could have felt authentic, and

1:25:02

also could have like been sort

1:25:04

of a character map for young

1:25:06

for young people who especially

1:25:09

young men watching this movie, because it's not

1:25:11

like even in the context of the movie, I don't

1:25:13

doubt at any point that Landon

1:25:15

cares about Jamie, and I

1:25:18

don't doubt that you know

1:25:20

that teenage boys very

1:25:22

often are deflective towards people

1:25:24

that they're attracted to, especially in a hetero

1:25:26

context, and like whatever. It's like that's

1:25:28

something that I experienced in high schools, Like so

1:25:30

when I had a crush on not being nice

1:25:33

to me and then like having to apologize

1:25:36

and over time like maybe of

1:25:39

a friendship build, but it's like

1:25:41

you have to especially with like movies

1:25:43

for young people, I feel like there is some responsibility

1:25:46

to like really track

1:25:49

that journey in a way that

1:25:51

is responsible and not just like randomly

1:25:54

putting the onus on Jamie to be

1:25:56

the world's most forgiving person. And I

1:25:58

don't think that it's like impossible

1:26:01

if this story were written differently

1:26:03

or a little more deliberately, I don't think it would be impossible

1:26:06

to get Landing from the beginning

1:26:08

of the story to a place where maybe

1:26:11

he has meaningfully earned Jamie's

1:26:13

trust. But that's just like not how we see the story

1:26:16

play how or is

1:26:18

or is very choppy, uh

1:26:20

in the way it plays out. I do wonder how

1:26:22

much how much that has to do with

1:26:24

her maybe not being available,

1:26:27

Like I know that she's a teen so she can only work

1:26:29

ten hours a day, and they shot this

1:26:31

in thirty nine days, So

1:26:33

I wonder, Like at first, I was like, I think

1:26:35

this has to go back to the you

1:26:38

know, kind of Christian ethics

1:26:40

that they're displaying in this where it doesn't make

1:26:43

it doesn't make sense for that storyline to really

1:26:45

get into Jamie. But also maybe

1:26:47

Mandy Moore decided to mount one day

1:26:50

because it does seem like after her leukemia diagnosis,

1:26:53

like she has that scene in the bed, but

1:26:55

really she's kind of gone from the

1:26:58

movie at that point. She's like not an

1:27:00

active heart, Like she only says

1:27:02

like thank you for thank your dad,

1:27:04

and like a look at this comment. And then does

1:27:07

she She doesn't mean to say I do. She just like hugs

1:27:09

him and then they're married, right,

1:27:12

yeah they don't did they even get married?

1:27:14

Uh we don't know? Yeah,

1:27:17

why aren't we checking in to see like

1:27:20

how she feels about like

1:27:23

she knows that she's dying, Like,

1:27:26

and there's a part where she says something

1:27:28

like I don't need a reason to be

1:27:30

angry with God, Like can we explore

1:27:33

that's a cool Like that's an interesting

1:27:35

thing to bring up of like a crisis of faith

1:27:38

for a priest daughter, like and it's

1:27:40

all set up, but instead, Yeah, I fel

1:27:42

like the movie diverts and ends up focusing on

1:27:44

boring land and side plots and and

1:27:46

gives a shit about because it should be a movie

1:27:49

that's about her, not about him. I

1:27:51

hate to keep bringing up religion, but again,

1:27:54

like that is very Jesus, Like

1:27:56

like Jesus had crisis of faith,

1:27:58

but he never lost a faith. He would just be like,

1:28:01

Dad, what's this God?

1:28:04

Damn it? Yeah?

1:28:07

Uh yeah, I don't know. It's it's

1:28:09

like Jamie is perfect

1:28:11

to a fault. But the moments that you

1:28:13

see her human side and the

1:28:16

movie doesn't seem interested in exploring

1:28:19

when it's like watching it back

1:28:21

this time, those are the most interesting moments where

1:28:24

she is affected by

1:28:26

how people treat her and she

1:28:28

is angry that she

1:28:31

is dying, and like there there are

1:28:33

like she does have these really human emotions.

1:28:35

But then she Yeah, I guess

1:28:37

like in the christ like way you're describing Sam,

1:28:40

she just kind of like transcends them

1:28:42

off screen. Then

1:28:44

it's like and it's all and it's all good,

1:28:46

and Shane West went to medical school the end,

1:28:50

right, I don't know, it's

1:28:53

it's but I still like it. I

1:28:55

don't know. And there's um

1:28:57

I wanted to go through the product

1:29:00

ship the people behind this production. So

1:29:03

there is people we've

1:29:05

discussed on the show before. There is a female screenwriter

1:29:08

here. Her name is Karen Jansen. Uh.

1:29:10

This is another Denise dn Novi movie

1:29:13

who I know has come up on the show a lot. She

1:29:16

seems interesting. Yeah, she

1:29:18

was like a millennial childhood shape

1:29:21

er big time. She I think we talked about

1:29:23

her kind of extensively because she got

1:29:25

both Little Women's the Winona one and

1:29:27

the Greta Girlwig one made

1:29:30

but a quick rundown In case

1:29:32

you forgot who, Denise says, uh

1:29:34

some of some of the hits Edward says, her

1:29:36

Hands Nightmare before Christmas, both

1:29:38

of the Little Women's, Practical Magic, Walk to

1:29:40

Remember What a Girl Wants, Sisterhood

1:29:43

of the Traveling Pants, New York Minutes,

1:29:45

Failed, Mary Kay Nashley movie

1:29:47

Uh, and Crazy Stupid Love, which we just

1:29:50

discussed on the show. So she's

1:29:52

behind a lot, a lot, a

1:29:54

lot of big movies,

1:29:57

and even I mean in a lot a lot of them are movies

1:29:59

that are specifically marketed at

1:30:02

teen girls. But I feel like a Watch to Remember

1:30:04

even stands out in her catalog because

1:30:06

it seems like the only kind of aggressively

1:30:08

Christian movie in this in this

1:30:10

catalog. And then I just try to shout

1:30:12

out that the director of this movie,

1:30:15

uh and openly gay director who's

1:30:17

who was openly gay at the time of this movie.

1:30:20

Uh. Started as a choreographer, then

1:30:22

switched into directing. Also directed

1:30:25

The Wedding Planner, which

1:30:27

we've covered on Marion.

1:30:30

Yeah. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, the

1:30:32

Hairspray, the two thousand seven

1:30:34

one. Uh, he just directed

1:30:37

What Men Want, which everyone

1:30:39

didn't like. And uh,

1:30:42

he's also directing something that I wasn't

1:30:44

aware existed, which is a sequel to Enchanted

1:30:49

starring Ammy Adams. The

1:30:51

final fun fact about the director, whose name is

1:30:53

Adam Shankman, which I don't think I've said um,

1:30:55

is that he officiated Sarah

1:30:58

Michelle Geller and Freddie Prince Jr. His

1:31:00

wedding. I

1:31:02

know they're also still married. They've been

1:31:04

married for twenty years. Dishwasher commercial

1:31:07

what there's a dishwasher

1:31:10

commercial where they're like making a bunch of innuendoes

1:31:12

about doing it every night and then

1:31:14

it's like, yeah, we run our dishwasher every

1:31:16

night. It saves water, and like that, I

1:31:19

and this. I don't hopefully

1:31:21

this is but like I think I can.

1:31:23

I confuse their marriage with Carson

1:31:26

Daly and Tera read a lot, because it's like brunette

1:31:28

guy, blonde lady and Carson

1:31:31

whatever. That other relationship definitely

1:31:33

didn't last, but it was a big deal. Freddie

1:31:36

Prince Jr. And Sarah Michelle Geller three

1:31:39

names, you know, six names between the two

1:31:41

of them. It's destined to last.

1:31:43

Yeah, of course, I hope they're washing dishes

1:31:46

right now. Also, that's

1:31:48

really I'm like, they have how many years

1:31:50

has it been since they've done a dish. Let's be real,

1:31:53

seriously, use a dishwasher. That's

1:31:56

true, that's because they use the dishwasher.

1:32:01

Another quick behind the scenes thing. This

1:32:03

movie was edited by a woman,

1:32:06

Emma E. Hiccox's shout

1:32:08

out to Emma. Yeah,

1:32:11

oh, the last thing I wanted to say. We called

1:32:13

attention to this, I think in the recap. But

1:32:15

there is a surprise kiss in this movie. That's

1:32:17

a really really sneaky surprise

1:32:19

kiss because I didn't even realize it was a

1:32:21

surprise kiss until my second

1:32:24

rewatch. But it's

1:32:26

when in the play

1:32:28

Landing kisses Jamie

1:32:31

after she sings her song.

1:32:34

And I originally just thought that that was like

1:32:36

a scripted part of the play

1:32:39

that the high school student playwright

1:32:41

wrote into the thing. But then I picked

1:32:43

up on a line that the playwright

1:32:45

says on my second rewatch where

1:32:47

he's like, oh, interesting, rewrite you

1:32:50

did their landing, And

1:32:52

it's like, oh, he's referring to

1:32:55

the kiss. Yeah, he's surprise kissed

1:32:57

her on stage in front of everybody.

1:33:00

Feel like Mandy acted out the way you

1:33:02

would a actual surprise kiss, Like she didn't

1:33:04

seem psyched. There is a look of

1:33:06

shock and surprise on

1:33:09

her face, which I

1:33:11

I guess just chalked that up to like,

1:33:14

oh, this is probably her first kiss

1:33:17

ever and that's why she's

1:33:19

reacting that way. But then

1:33:21

I was like, oh, wait, no, that was a surprise kiss

1:33:25

and she wasn't expecting it and

1:33:27

he just used the school play as an excuse

1:33:30

to kiss her. Also, I feel like the

1:33:32

cringe eest part of this movie for me is when

1:33:34

he's like, uh, when

1:33:36

she takes off her cloak. To me, that

1:33:38

was the most uncomfortable moment.

1:33:41

He forgot all of his lines, so

1:33:44

ridiculous this whole I

1:33:46

mean the fact, and that was like, I think

1:33:48

one of the closer moments to like

1:33:50

a true trophy, Like wow,

1:33:52

I didn't realize that Mandy Moore is

1:33:55

very like Western beauty standards

1:33:57

beautiful before she removed

1:33:59

this colloak like what are

1:34:01

you doing? Um? Anyways?

1:34:04

Yeah, um, does anyone have anything

1:34:07

else they would like to talk about? I

1:34:10

have to click things. I just I

1:34:12

appreciated that the

1:34:15

music. They used the music to

1:34:17

indicate bad kids, you know, in a very

1:34:19

old man kind of way. The first

1:34:21

the first the whole first scene up

1:34:24

until when the bullied kid gets there, I

1:34:26

could barely hear because the music

1:34:28

was blaring so loud. And then that's

1:34:30

a recurring theme with Landon wearing blasting

1:34:33

headphones, and it just seemed like a

1:34:35

get off my lawn kind of person.

1:34:38

That indicated that part of the script

1:34:40

that made me and you laugh, right because

1:34:42

the bad boy kids, like

1:34:44

they're heavy metal rock and roll

1:34:46

music. Yeah, and a lot

1:34:49

of you know, a lot of the with that scene

1:34:51

where they're flipping the radio thing, it's like

1:34:53

no mercy, like just like still

1:34:56

biblical, but like the best side of it,

1:34:58

right, he's yeah, he's listening

1:35:00

to his devil music and she's listening

1:35:03

to her god music. Yeah.

1:35:05

And then the only other thing was that, oh

1:35:08

two things. One also in the VHS

1:35:10

commercials, there was a commercial for a O

1:35:12

L online and in the trailer

1:35:15

for this film it does have like

1:35:17

below the rating like

1:35:19

a O L keyword a walk to remember

1:35:22

for when we still didn't know how to search

1:35:24

things. I

1:35:26

just thought that was a nice time capsule. It

1:35:29

was a simple time. My

1:35:31

last thing was that I kept reading

1:35:34

about how this film was released

1:35:36

in theaters, but then also released

1:35:38

in a family edited version,

1:35:41

and I could not find what that

1:35:43

means, Like what was edited out of

1:35:45

this version for

1:35:48

the family edited version. Maybe

1:35:50

the handshake between Landon

1:35:53

and Eric where they reference smoking

1:35:56

weed. I was wondering if they just edited

1:35:58

out that guy and made it a fully

1:36:01

cast right, because he's always

1:36:03

making again, very sexually

1:36:06

aggressive comments and jokes.

1:36:08

So yeah, maybe they just eliminated

1:36:10

that character altogether. I guess just if

1:36:12

your fans can sound off that was it

1:36:15

still bugs me. I just want to know what

1:36:17

is what was edited out? Yeah, it's

1:36:19

true. I'm curious. Yeah,

1:36:22

this has to be the kind of movie this this movie,

1:36:24

I can't I wonder, it's hard. It's hard

1:36:26

to describe how it's like that,

1:36:29

like I know it when I see it kind

1:36:31

of thing. But you can tell when a movie when

1:36:33

a lot hit the cutting room floor, and this

1:36:35

movie seems like the kind of movie where a lot hit

1:36:37

the cutting room floor. They did say that

1:36:40

they did a lot of cuts to make sure it was

1:36:42

PG not PG thirteen, one of

1:36:44

which was cutting Shane

1:36:46

singing to Mandy in the hospital only

1:36:49

Hope, which I would like to hear. How

1:36:51

did that make a PG thirteen. Is that

1:36:53

too sexy? Made it too

1:36:55

depressing? Oh? It was too sad? Okay.

1:36:58

I thought it was like in a PG the movie you

1:37:00

can only say shit or fuck once, and

1:37:03

you can also only sing only hope one,

1:37:07

oh my god, or it's adult. Yeah

1:37:11

that was all I had. All right, Well,

1:37:13

I believe the movie

1:37:16

on some technicalities, passes

1:37:19

the Bechtel test, but I think that the

1:37:21

bullying, it's only it

1:37:23

only passes in scenes where Jamie

1:37:26

is being actively bullied, which, now that we've

1:37:28

talked it through, is a like

1:37:30

narratively significant thing

1:37:33

that happens. It's just sad, Yeah,

1:37:35

I think it is. I think the passing is literally

1:37:37

just a photoshop scene when Belinda

1:37:40

has to like get her to

1:37:43

follow her to the cafeteria, right,

1:37:46

and then like we see Jamie almost make a

1:37:48

female friend and then actually, no, she's

1:37:50

not allowed to have any female friends.

1:37:53

Sorry, James. I remember

1:37:56

the lines now. It was like, Jamie, you would look

1:37:58

really pretty with makeup here,

1:38:00

come with me? Do you want to? Oh

1:38:02

my god? It really is like the

1:38:05

one of the worst passes we've ever

1:38:07

had is even an egg. Right.

1:38:10

She's basically like, your face is

1:38:12

bad. Your breath is bad. Come

1:38:15

with me so that I can keep bullying

1:38:17

you. Yeah, come to the table

1:38:20

so I can keep bullying you with all my cool

1:38:22

friends. Also like to like fourteen people go

1:38:24

to that school that just all

1:38:27

of it's so bizarre. I feel

1:38:29

like I saw fourteen kids that went to the entire

1:38:31

school and all of them hate Jamie.

1:38:34

You know, Jamie does seem to have

1:38:37

a friend who is the

1:38:40

other co star of the school

1:38:42

play. Oh yeah, but we

1:38:44

don't know that character's name. I don't even

1:38:47

think we don't know anything about her. She barely

1:38:49

says anything. Let Jamie

1:38:51

have a friend. Seriously, I

1:38:53

did love how her friend was like the perfect drama

1:38:56

nerd. Yeah, you know, highly

1:38:59

identifiable. And it's like that seems

1:39:01

like and you would think that, like it

1:39:03

seems like Jamie is kind of like well liked

1:39:05

by the drama club. We have no reasoning

1:39:08

that she isn't. So it's like, why can't we see

1:39:10

her thriving outside of this relationship

1:39:13

with Shane West a little bit? And also

1:39:15

you would now that I'm like, wouldn't

1:39:18

they have visited her as she was dying?

1:39:20

They appeared to be her friends, right,

1:39:23

I will say it sounded like she had kept

1:39:25

her diagnosis secret from everyone from

1:39:27

outside of her father. That's true. So

1:39:30

by the wedding, did they know she's sick? I don't know.

1:39:32

I mean they know because of the gossip, Like

1:39:34

Shane West kind of blew up her prophecy,

1:39:37

right because all all his friends find out about

1:39:39

it. Damn they all come around and they're

1:39:41

like, oh, I'm sorry, I was such a jerk before.

1:39:44

I know that. My personal experience, not

1:39:47

with cancer, but with like major injuries

1:39:49

and stuff is like I did have a tendency

1:39:51

to isolate. I still do. Also

1:39:53

could be depression and stuff, but like that's like

1:39:56

me inferring that is her reasoning,

1:39:58

It isn't the Only thing we know for the movie is

1:40:00

that she was like I found out two

1:40:02

years ago. I didn't want people to treat me weird and

1:40:04

I was cool until I met you. Right. Ah,

1:40:08

so much unexplained, right, But if yeah,

1:40:11

but if we knew more about her character or

1:40:13

saw things more from her point of view, we

1:40:15

would have a better sense of what the

1:40:17

circumstances were there. So we just

1:40:20

don't know, because we don't even

1:40:22

know. She was really unpopular. The popular

1:40:24

kids just didn't like her right, but it's

1:40:26

like, yeah, it's it's you can be

1:40:28

disliked by popular kids and still be

1:40:31

the coolest kid in the drama club, like

1:40:34

or that star club that she ran

1:40:37

that we saw that one. See. Well, that kind

1:40:39

of like brings us to the nipple

1:40:42

scale because I feel like, ultimately,

1:40:44

for me, uh, this movie

1:40:46

would have worked a lot better for

1:40:49

me if it had been centered around

1:40:51

her and not Landing. You don't even

1:40:53

need to get rid of Landing for

1:40:55

my I'm like, okay, it's a heteroteene

1:40:58

romance whatever, like, but

1:41:01

but there's no reason other than the movie

1:41:04

the story is being told by

1:41:06

Nicholas Sparks's authorial voice,

1:41:08

that the story is being told by Landon

1:41:11

at all, Like I don't it shouldn't be told

1:41:13

by him. He can be there, but it can't be his

1:41:15

story. I don't know which. Again,

1:41:17

it makes her her burn his sister's

1:41:20

burned so much like I don't want you telling

1:41:22

the world about my life. I'm

1:41:25

not going to read this interpretation you

1:41:27

had of me. So

1:41:31

shall we shall we? Shall we bust

1:41:33

out that nipple scale. Let's do it.

1:41:36

Zero to five nipples based on

1:41:38

examining the movie through an intersectional

1:41:41

feminist lens. I'm going to give

1:41:43

this movie, I

1:41:45

don't know, like a one and a half,

1:41:48

maybe a two, maybe

1:41:50

somewhere split in the middle of that.

1:41:52

I don't know. It's it's not high. It

1:41:55

really adheres to a lot

1:41:57

of the tropes of like

1:42:00

the teen romance genre

1:42:03

of like a boy

1:42:06

nigging and being cruel

1:42:08

to a girl and wearing

1:42:10

her down when he does decide that she's

1:42:12

worthy of him, and

1:42:14

then falling in love and

1:42:16

still being shitty to her a lot of

1:42:19

the time. And yeah,

1:42:21

the fact that, like you said, Jimmie, it's that

1:42:23

it's told from his point

1:42:25

of view, even though he doesn't have an

1:42:28

interesting perspective on this narrative

1:42:31

at all. And I would much rather learn,

1:42:34

like know about what a like very

1:42:36

devoutly Christian girl

1:42:39

how she feels about having a

1:42:41

terminal illness. That's a way

1:42:43

more interesting story. I don't give a shit about

1:42:46

landing like anyway.

1:42:49

So yeah, I think there's a lot

1:42:51

of missteps, at

1:42:54

least, though it doesn't fall into the

1:42:56

territory of like a

1:42:59

million racist and homophobic

1:43:01

jokes that get made in a lot

1:43:03

of comparable movies of this era.

1:43:06

But like, obviously that bars so

1:43:08

low that like, the movie doesn't deserve

1:43:10

to be congratulated for not doing that,

1:43:13

but that but that's why I was like, Oh, it's not as

1:43:15

problematic as I thought it was going to

1:43:17

be. They compressed it all into that

1:43:20

one person, into Eric. Yeah,

1:43:22

exactly, um for

1:43:25

justice for Eric. So yeah,

1:43:27

that it's it's not the worst

1:43:29

example we've seen, but it's certainly not great.

1:43:31

So I'll give it. I'll

1:43:34

give it one and a half nipples. I'll

1:43:36

give one nipple to Jamie

1:43:39

Loftist. I was gonna

1:43:41

say this episode has

1:43:43

been very stressful for me overall.