0:00

Hi everyone. Quick content warning

0:02

for this episode. There is

0:05

an occasional mention of rape,

0:07

rape metaphors, and incest

0:10

not a pervasive part of our discussion,

0:13

but it is present, so

0:15

we just wanted you to know. Enjoy

0:17

the episode. On the Bell

0:20

cast, the questions asked if movies have

0:22

women in um? Are all their

0:24

discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do

0:26

they have individualism? The

0:28

patriarchy? Zef invest

0:31

start changing it with the beck Del cast

0:34

earth Man, what a ship

0:36

whole? Damn it's true. Where's

0:39

the lie? Where's the lie? I

0:42

love a movie whose last

0:45

line really thinks they're doing something,

0:47

but actually just serves to remind you that

0:49

you know nothing about the character you've been watching

0:51

for two hours. She's

0:54

just like, I have no idea, I've never been here.

0:56

You're like, wow, beautiful,

0:59

inspiring, and it's Sigourney

1:01

Weaver and went on a writer being like, wow, Earth,

1:03

look how pretty it is. But it had already

1:05

been established in the movie that Earth is

1:07

a ship hole, So I don't understand

1:10

what that's about. Well, but then they

1:12

got there. They must have they landed,

1:15

you know, somewhere pretty, and they gasolate

1:17

themselves into thinking it doesn't suck ass

1:20

here, which it does. They

1:22

shot a version of the ending of the movie

1:24

with the same dialogue, put them in front

1:26

of green screen with a desolate

1:29

Paris in the background. It just like broken

1:31

Iffel Tower and

1:34

like they're like, the military is going to

1:36

come get us. And then the writers like, well,

1:38

you could get pretty lost in a place like this, what

1:41

do you want to do? And then it's the same I don't know,

1:43

I'm a stranger here myself, but it's just like

1:45

desert land Paris in the background.

1:48

That's kind of fun, but also much

1:51

like a lot of thoughts I was having do this

1:53

movie, what huh?

1:56

Why? And why I

2:00

am so excited to talk

2:02

about this movie that truly,

2:04

I mean for Bechtel cast listeners,

2:07

Um, there's just I feel like most

2:09

of the time we have a we have a grip on

2:12

at least what's sort of going on.

2:14

But this is one of those fun, rare episodes

2:16

where I'm like, I I'm I'm

2:19

at c I don't. I'm so excited

2:21

that we have a wonderful returning guest

2:24

to uh to be our little

2:26

Titanic lifeboat. With

2:29

the movie Alien Resurrection

2:32

a k A. A movie that struggled

2:34

to find watertight compartments to film

2:36

in because Titanic was shooting next

2:38

door. Yes,

2:42

okay, so really quickly, this is

2:44

the Bechtel Cast. Welcome to it.

2:46

I'm Caitlin Darante, I'm Jamie

2:49

Loftus, and this is our show where we examine

2:51

movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

2:54

the Bechtel Tests simply as a jumping

2:56

off point. Jamie, remind

2:58

me, please, what is it? Okay?

3:02

So, the Bechtel test is a

3:04

media metric invented by queer cartoonist

3:07

Alison Bechdel, sometimes called

3:09

the Bechtel Wallace Test. Uh.

3:11

There's a lot of versions of it. Our version is

3:13

get ready this We require

3:17

that two characters

3:19

of a marginalized gender with names

3:21

speak to each other about something

3:24

other than a man for two lines

3:26

of dialogue, and that it has to be

3:29

a meaningful interaction.

3:32

And we can't get more specific about that.

3:34

You know what when you see it? And

3:37

yeah, that's basically the test this movie.

3:39

I mean, the ways in this movie in which

3:41

this movie passes are so Josh

3:44

Weeden and I don't really mean that as

3:46

a compliment, right, yes,

3:51

And we have a wonderful returning

3:54

guest. She's an actor.

3:56

You've seen her in teen beach movie

3:58

z Nation and the new

4:00

movie streaming on shutter app

4:03

called super Host. It's Gracie

4:05

Gillum. Hello everybody,

4:07

thanks for having me back. Welcome back,

4:09

Welcome back. I think we

4:12

should open this episode

4:14

with your rendition of the Bechtel Cast

4:16

theme song. Maybe we'll edit that in. I

4:18

feel like that'sh the only

4:21

it's the only way I recorded.

4:23

I like screen recorded it when you first

4:25

posted it, Um, because

4:28

I'm weird, So we have it.

4:30

I love that you don't know what that means to

4:32

me, because every episode that I listened to,

4:35

my boyfriend and I do sing along with

4:37

the harmonies to the opening number, just

4:39

like like we can't help but

4:41

I have to sing along to the very very catchy opening

4:44

and you thank you for that.

4:46

That makes us so happy. Or also sometimes

4:48

when we watch sexist movies, we just sing it.

4:51

Of course, shouts

4:54

out to our friend Mike

4:56

Kaplan for writing the song,

4:58

and to Catherine in a k Reeny

5:01

Voskozynski first singing for

5:03

doing the vocals of our

5:05

songs. So shouts out to our pals.

5:08

Yes we are now a

5:11

song that five years ago around

5:13

now was being composed for the

5:15

first time, which is so wild,

5:18

Caitlin, I realized that this podcast

5:20

is my longest relationship

5:23

relationship. Yeah,

5:27

look at us same Oh my

5:29

goodness, still in love after all these years. The

5:32

spark will never die. What if the

5:34

gift for a five year I don't

5:36

know. That's actually Kaylee,

5:39

we should have a weekend. Oh wait, we should

5:41

finally go to magic Mike Las Vegas,

5:43

like we keep saying we will. Oh my gosh,

5:46

yes, wait, five

5:48

year anniversary gift. The

5:50

traditional five year anniversary gift

5:52

is would a symbol of strong

5:55

roots in an enduring relationship. Caitlin,

5:57

I'm going to plant a tree and be like, stop

6:00

the anniversary, baby, I'm gonna

6:02

carve Alfred Molina's face

6:05

out of a slab of wood, just

6:07

a little butter knife. Oh

6:12

god. Every time I forget the

6:15

would anniversary, I feel like that's a punishment

6:17

for not being in a relationship long enough. I

6:20

thought it was gonna be like gold, right.

6:22

It feels like the gifts must

6:24

get worse and worse as your

6:27

relationship goes on. Wood

6:29

anniversary. I think paper

6:31

even comes after that, which is just processed.

6:34

Would really who

6:36

made this little papers one of them, and

6:38

it's this shockingly late one. I think, I

6:41

like fifty years guess what paper

6:44

divorce? You did it? You

6:46

can get out of here. Oh

6:49

my gosh. Okay, So, Gracie,

6:52

you have brought us Alien Resurrection,

6:54

the fourth movie and the Alien franchise

6:57

that came out in Tell

6:59

us about your relationship, your

7:02

history with this film.

7:06

Um, I brought this movie and I do

7:08

not apologize Jamie for making you watch

7:10

it for the first time. Thank

7:12

you. I had not watched it until

7:15

June. I had seen

7:17

Alien, I'm sure in some sort

7:19

of l A theater screening, then

7:22

revisited them, I think just because they were on HBO

7:25

Max or whatever, and watched

7:27

the two thousand three directors cut, which

7:30

I think is just wildly better. The

7:33

tension in the director's cut, I think is so much

7:35

better than when you like when even after watching

7:37

director's cut rerot rewatching Alien

7:40

is good. It's good, but the

7:42

the amount of like like. Not a lot of

7:44

movies I think benefit from long

7:47

shots of hallways. The two

7:49

thousand three directors cut of Alien very much does.

7:51

And then they went through and watched more

7:54

of them, um, including

7:56

the first Alien versus Predator and

7:58

Alien Resurrection is by are my favorite

8:00

alien movie and maybe among

8:03

like easily top ten or fifteen movies

8:05

for me. I think this movie is doing everything

8:08

that I really wanted to be doing. I

8:10

know that this is not a popular opinion. No,

8:13

I love it. I love Coming in

8:15

Hot, Coming in Hot. Critics

8:18

have Rotten Tomatoes raded this movie

8:21

fresh, and the audience has disagreed

8:23

with a thirty nine. And I'm going

8:25

to disagree with both of those. It's

8:28

at

8:31

least I'm

8:33

so fascinated. I'm

8:36

truly so excited because

8:38

I'm like, I'm at a point where I'm

8:40

just confused, and so my mind

8:43

is very open to being changed. I'm

8:45

open to I I feel like I can be taught

8:47

here. I'm curious. Did you

8:50

watch Alien Cubed? The third

8:52

one? I've seen it? I didn't. I knew

8:54

that, Caitlin, you had It's It's

8:56

honestly, it's skippable, like you know, like

8:58

the first episode like people that you can skip the

9:00

first episode of Star Wars, um

9:02

of Star Wars movies like it's. It is pretty

9:04

skippable. You don't know how. I have to know very

9:07

much from it, but in terms of you

9:09

watch it and the theme is just ruined

9:11

and your heart is ruined, and then resurrection

9:14

after that is very healing and satisfying.

9:18

Oh that's like in in the order,

9:20

it seems like I

9:22

I did watch a bunch of franchise

9:25

recap videos just to understand where

9:28

exactly this is all coming from,

9:30

because my history with the Alien franchise, which

9:32

listening I mean basically is all

9:34

contained in the feet of the show where

9:37

I've seen Alien and Aliens because

9:39

we've covered it on the show. This

9:41

is just I this genre

9:44

is so hard for me. I

9:46

cannot follow. I

9:48

get confused. Everyone's

9:51

wearing the same outfit. This is why I can't do war

9:53

movies. Also, I'm like, I don't know who that

9:55

is. They're all wearing the same outfit. And

9:58

when people are on spaceship the whole movie,

10:01

uh, it's like you're saying,

10:03

Gracie. It's it's a lot of hallways.

10:06

I don't know. I'm not built for it. But

10:08

it's so fren Like, do either of

10:10

you have a genre or

10:12

just like a vibe of a movie that it's

10:14

like it's hard for me to connect

10:17

with, but I want to, Like

10:19

I want to and Alien

10:22

Resurrection I mean, it certainly held

10:24

my attention because

10:27

so much is happening. The

10:29

tone of this movie for me was

10:31

so all over the place that I was on

10:33

the edge of my seat just to see

10:36

what genre the next scene was

10:38

going to take place in. Where like there's

10:41

like the scene where it's like, oh,

10:43

it's kind of a tense scene with

10:45

one of the xenomorphs,

10:47

but then the scientist is like French

10:50

ng the xenomorph like kiss me through

10:52

the phone style. It's like, sometimes

10:55

genre is this, like what

10:57

is happening? So I'm just I

10:59

truly like need to be carried

11:02

through this movie in a little

11:04

baby Bjorn. It's like true.

11:07

Sometimes it's body

11:09

horror. Sometimes it's a porn

11:12

film. Sometimes it's space jam

11:14

because they're playing basketball. Times

11:17

it's a space jam team.

11:22

Wait does that mean I guess

11:24

that technically couldn't Sigourney

11:27

like ripley eight could easily

11:29

she would qualify to beyond the Monsters,

11:32

would she not? She's kind of I mean, she's

11:34

an alien, so yeah,

11:38

she can't be on tune Squad. She's not a cartoon,

11:40

so she has to be one of the monstars. Dan

11:44

Hydeia is a cartoon in this movie.

11:46

Ron Perlman is a cartoon in this movie,

11:49

but not Ripley. No. Death is death

11:52

is both very scary and also something

11:54

that happens to you after you look at

11:56

a part of take a part of your brain out and look

11:58

at it. It is very many

12:00

scene was

12:03

like what movie

12:05

am I watching? It? All? Like the

12:08

production behind this movie. I'm

12:10

I'm so excited to hear that you watched

12:12

all the DVD extras Gracie, because I've

12:15

I was mostly interested in, like, how

12:17

did this movie get this way? Because

12:20

it's such a specific way, and and I

12:23

wasn't surprised to hear that there were a lot of

12:26

like the the director

12:28

of this movie, Oh, let's let's

12:30

see how I do with this

12:32

French Jean

12:35

Jean Jean

12:38

Pierre Jeunet, who we have covered

12:40

his work before in the form of Amalie, which

12:42

I can't think of a more different movie on

12:44

the planet. But but

12:47

I guess, I guess that he wasn't

12:49

really able to communicate directly with the actors.

12:51

He needed a translator to work

12:54

with, and so it

12:56

sounds like from an actor perspective

12:58

that everyone was kind of

13:00

winging it and like trying to figure

13:02

out what movie they were in, and everyone seemed

13:05

to land somewhere different, and Jean

13:07

Pierre was kind of like, we'll figure it out whatever.

13:09

Yeah, he was apparently asking just

13:12

crew members, like what is like like during

13:14

recording a scene, Like what is he saying like

13:16

about the dialogue that is in the scene, Like

13:20

I think there was a lot of French people on set.

13:22

And he says in the director's commentary, which I didn't

13:24

finish because it was so little about story, uh,

13:26

that he spoke the least English,

13:29

and like this movie is visually

13:32

cohesive, but the performances are not in the

13:34

same film at all, right, which it does

13:36

sound like. And I'm Josh

13:38

Sweden detractor even

13:41

before he was revealed to be a piece of ship

13:43

person. It's just I don't I don't know. I've never connected

13:45

with this stuff. But he did seem to have

13:48

like a some some severe

13:50

grips with how this movie came out where

13:53

he had that quote that was like

13:55

everyone said every word of the movie wrong,

13:59

like huh, Like he's

14:01

like, they said all the words that I wrote down, but

14:03

they said them so confusing,

14:06

like, which I was like, I guess if

14:08

I wrote that script, I would also be like I

14:10

mean, starting with Ron Perlman being

14:13

like, oh Earth, we got to go there. That's a

14:15

ship hole, and then at the end when they

14:17

end up on Earth, they're like, well Earth

14:19

is beautiful. It's like, uh,

14:22

excuse me, just

14:24

the cloud part right right

14:27

right, the this layer of the

14:29

earth is very beautiful. Yeah,

14:32

Josh Speden said, quote, it wasn't

14:34

a question of doing everything differently, although they

14:36

changed the ending, it was mostly a matter

14:38

of doing everything wrong. They said the

14:40

lines mostly, but they said them all wrong,

14:42

and they cast it wrong, and they designed it

14:45

wrong, and they scored it wrong. They did

14:47

everything wrong that they could possibly do

14:49

unquote. So he really did not like very

14:53

I think it's very funny. And also

14:55

he's an asshole, so it's like who

14:57

gives it a ship that I was like, Wow,

14:59

I've I want I'm curious

15:02

of like did he and the director ever get

15:04

to like talk, like, I

15:06

don't know, it really doesn't seem

15:08

So I was really excited for some Jos

15:10

Sweden commentary on this movie when

15:12

I got the big package

15:14

of it and was going to go into the special features,

15:17

and I watched just so

15:19

many special features and there

15:21

was one clip of him and in

15:23

a long line of lots of people who designed

15:25

props for it saying what they thought the next

15:27

movie should be and how it should have this movie should have ended,

15:30

And it's just him saying I feel

15:32

like there's a lot of different directions that could go. And

15:34

that is the only John sued and special feature

15:36

that I was able to find is fully tapping

15:38

out. I also read some and I

15:41

have not seen Firefly before,

15:44

but I read a lot of

15:46

pieces written about Alien Resurrection and

15:49

a lot of theories that Firefly

15:51

was John Sweden's attempt to like course

15:53

correct what he wanted Alien Resurrection

15:56

to be. Like that makes a lot of sense.

15:58

Yeah, because that show is also

16:00

about space pirates doing

16:03

space pirate stuff, so I

16:05

can see that. So I guess if you wanted to see Josh

16:07

Weeden's Alien Resurrection, you should

16:09

watch Firefly. Yeah

16:12

for Serenity, which is a little bit more

16:14

serious. Um. My

16:17

relationship with the this

16:19

movie and the Alien franchise in general,

16:22

I am a pretty big fan of the

16:24

first two movies, Alien and Aliens,

16:27

and then for me, the franchise

16:29

keeps getting worse and worse. I have not seen

16:31

either Alien Versus Predator

16:34

movie, but I have seen Alien

16:36

three, Alien Resurrection, Prometheus,

16:40

and Alien Covenant, and

16:43

it's really just the first two movies I care about.

16:45

But I do. I do appreciate how

16:48

many swings this movie takes,

16:51

as far as just wild

16:53

narrative and production

16:56

design choices there

16:58

is. We were Caitlin and I were talking about

17:00

this right before you came on the call.

17:03

Grace Weaver, like I, I find

17:05

this franchise so

17:07

interesting because it's like Sigourney Weaver

17:10

is holding it down throughout, like I

17:13

love her. You know that there's going to be great

17:16

action sequences with women when she's

17:18

in a movie. And then it's like you get

17:21

four very different male

17:23

directors with seemingly very

17:25

different anxieties surrounding birth,

17:29

just like letting it all

17:31

out over the course of twenty

17:33

years. It's just like so bizarre

17:37

that it even happened. So I'm

17:39

glad it happened, But what a what

17:41

a thing to have happened. Why

17:45

don't we take a quick break and then we'll come

17:47

back and recap the movie

17:57

and we are back. I

17:59

figure to start us off, since

18:01

this is the fourth movie in the

18:03

franchise, I would just do very very quick

18:06

recaps of the first three movies

18:10

where Alien from

18:12

nineteen seventy nine is

18:15

about an alien that makes its

18:17

way onto a spaceship and

18:19

kills the whole crew except for Ellen

18:22

Ripley and Jones and

18:25

Jones the cat Yes, the fun fact

18:27

is credited as Jones, which I think is very

18:29

funny. Really is that

18:31

Jonesy's stage name. It's like, it's just

18:33

Jones. It's just please call me Jones.

18:38

I want to meet Jonesy at a bar and

18:40

really pick their mind. Yea.

18:44

So Aliens from n

18:48

Ripley is brought along to

18:50

advise on this military operation

18:52

because something maybe

18:55

Aliens question Mark is thought

18:57

to have wiped out a small population

18:59

that is terror forming a distant planet.

19:02

Turns out, yes, it is Aliens. There's

19:04

this big mother queen Alien.

19:07

She has all of these offspring and

19:09

they kill everybody, almost everybody

19:11

except for Ripley and this

19:14

little girl Newt, who

19:16

escape into space. Alien

19:18

three from nine two picks up

19:21

right where Aliens leaves off, where

19:23

Ripley, I think, crash lands

19:26

onto a planet where the population is

19:28

all of these prisoners.

19:30

So this is so it's sorry. So it's like

19:32

the Ridley Scott one. James

19:34

Cameron is Aliens, which is

19:37

Mommy, and then David

19:39

Fincher is the one. We're talking about Alien

19:41

three. Just for for those who are not into

19:44

the franchise, I feel like these all these

19:46

directors have very recognizable styles

19:48

and themes and it kind of like helped my

19:50

brain click a little bit. Yeah. Yes,

19:53

so Alien three directed by David Fincher.

19:56

So she crashed lands onto this planetfull

19:59

of like religious extremist

20:01

prisoners. There's also sex criminal

20:04

prisoners. Yes, they all have

20:06

y y chromosome, so they're like

20:08

extra male, extra aggressive.

20:12

And it's David Fincher very

20:16

early career and like was

20:18

the fifth or something director attached

20:21

to it, and they were writing that one as they

20:23

shot it. Yikes, you

20:25

can tell um.

20:28

Anyway, Ripley has unknowingly brought

20:30

an alien along with her to this

20:33

planet and it kills a bunch of people, and

20:35

then she kills the alien

20:37

and also has to sacrifice herself at

20:40

the end because she has been impregnated

20:43

with an alien. Death

20:45

by Mommy. Yeah, so

20:47

then Alien Resurrection, which is what we are talking

20:49

about today. We are on a

20:51

military medical research spaceship

20:54

that is floating through space. These

20:56

scientists have cloned Ripley

20:59

and we see them surgically remove

21:02

an alien fetus from her chest

21:04

cavity. It's worth noting that

21:07

the difference between this alien

21:09

being removed from a chest cavity and all of the other

21:11

times we get to see that in this franchise is

21:13

that this alien is not circumcised.

21:18

This one definitely still has foreskin it

21:20

had for Wow, I

21:22

watched this movie twice and I

21:24

did not get

21:27

Wow. This is this movie really rewards

21:30

rewatch and you're like, wait a second.

21:33

Things have I'm very interested in

21:35

talking about in this franchise,

21:38

like later in the episode, how

21:41

the idea of an alien parasite

21:43

is treated differently in male

21:45

characters versus female characters, where I feel like

21:47

with the men, it's truly like a parasite

21:50

and you're like, get it out of me, like yucky.

21:53

But with the female characters,

21:55

it's like, oh bird,

21:58

then you're it's mommy.

22:00

You would think that the parasite

22:03

would behave the same regardless of

22:05

who it's inside, but it just seems

22:07

to know when it's inside

22:09

someone with a womb and it

22:12

acts a little different. And I'm like, you guys,

22:15

you guys think it through.

22:19

Yeah, Also because

22:21

Ripley is a clone. She

22:23

doesn't have the same cognition

22:26

and memories as the

22:29

Ripley We've Come to Know and Love and the

22:31

other three movies, although she does have some of

22:33

the memories, and then she develops more cognition

22:36

throughout the movie. But at first

22:38

she's almost kind of like a baby herself.

22:40

She's just space jam she's

22:43

born Sexy Yesterday, but

22:45

she does know stuff. Yes,

22:47

it's like a yeah, it's like a variation

22:50

on the Born Sexy Yesterday. She

22:52

was like born Sigourney

22:55

Weaver today

22:57

with some of Sigourney Weaver's memory,

23:00

but this time she has

23:02

a manicure important

23:05

because she's an alien, that's

23:09

how you know, And like Sigourney Weaver, I

23:11

mean in my mind, like she can do not

23:13

wrong. She's the hottest person on the face of

23:15

the planet. She's amazing. But

23:17

the things that she used to do in

23:19

this movie, that whole like there's

23:22

I would say approximately five

23:24

hundred birth metaphors a minute

23:26

concervatively this movie. But the one

23:29

where she's like kind of hatching out of a

23:31

cocoon and the movie really

23:33

like lets you sit in it, and she's like uh

23:36

uh, and then she like

23:39

it's like, where are we

23:42

France? We're in France, Space France.

23:45

Okay. So the alien that they have

23:48

removed from Ripley is a

23:51

queen, and in the military

23:53

scientists plan is to have that queen

23:55

reproduced because they want

23:58

to tame the alien, train

24:00

them, weaponize them, et cetera.

24:03

Make vaccines. Yeah,

24:06

and we love vaccines, so I'm actually

24:08

fine with them doing that. Um. And then

24:11

Ripley warns them that if

24:13

they try to do all of this stuff, everyone's

24:16

gonna die. Then

24:19

the crew from this

24:21

like commercial freighter again basically

24:23

space Pirates boards the

24:26

military vessel. This crew

24:28

includes Genre that's Ron Perlman,

24:31

Call that's one owner, writer, other

24:35

people who I don't recognize, so I'm

24:37

not gonna list the actor's names, but Revere,

24:40

Christie Hillard, and then their

24:42

captain Elgin. They

24:45

are there to bring cargo to Perez

24:47

that stand Hideya. And it turns

24:50

out that this cargo is a bunch of human

24:52

bodies that are in some sort of like cryostasis

24:56

sleep that the

24:58

scientists will use

25:01

these people as vessels for

25:03

the face huggers that come out

25:05

of the the eggs that the

25:08

queen lays to impregnant

25:10

so that the aliens will reproduce.

25:13

Right, So thank you for that.

25:16

Thank you for that. No matter how many times I hear

25:18

it, I can't get that piece of information to

25:21

live in my brain like a parasite. I'm just like,

25:25

in ten minutes, I'll need to hear that. Totally

25:28

fine. Yeah, So this the cannon

25:30

that has been established and the other alien

25:32

movies is that a queen

25:35

lays an egg. What comes

25:37

out of the egg is a face hugger. It impregnates

25:40

a human, usually human host, and

25:42

then an alien fetus burst out

25:44

of the human hosts chest,

25:47

and then it grows very very quickly into

25:49

a full adult alien that

25:51

goes on to kill people. However, as

25:53

we will find shortly, this

25:56

kind of gestation reproduction

25:59

process changes

26:02

in this movie. Well it's in

26:04

the first movie. The cannon is

26:06

that they're all like it's

26:08

it's kind of a sexless reproduction, Like

26:11

the set looks like they're turning.

26:13

The captured crew members from the first

26:15

film are turning into eggs. And

26:17

I know that Ridley was really interested

26:19

in that. And what I think

26:22

is so cool about this monster

26:24

is, you know it didn't really and I don't think anybody

26:26

thought about it as a rape metaphor until they hired a woman

26:28

to play the lead. But it does really work

26:30

really well as one I think, and in

26:33

this non gendered way, which

26:35

is what's the wrong with Alien Cube, Like,

26:37

let's just complicated, Like one of the metaphor

26:40

was just the plot it's mother exclamation point um.

26:44

But like the first movie,

26:46

it feels like there's just the one kind of

26:48

alien and they can do the reproduction

26:51

themselves and within the can and

26:53

people recognize that. But then there can

26:55

also elect a mother like a b and

26:58

that is more efficient. There's more eggs getting

27:00

laid if that's the case. But

27:03

there's not a need for there to be a mother

27:05

in the first movie. And it's only once they're

27:07

writing for Sigurne Weaver that anybody decides

27:09

there needs to be a mother, right because

27:12

the queen doesn't get introduced until

27:14

Aliens, and prior

27:17

to that, yeah, I think it's

27:19

just assumed that these

27:21

eggs appears somehow

27:25

the same as the cocoons, I guess, which it's

27:27

just like so it's just like,

27:29

as it's so bizarre to think as

27:31

as this franchise continues, it just gets like Mommy

27:34

ere and Mommy are like in more

27:36

ham fested ways. Okay,

27:42

okay, So then we see a scene

27:44

where Ripley meets this rag

27:46

tag crew of space pirates. She

27:49

sort of plays basketball with them, and

27:51

then she also fights them.

27:54

She also seems superhuman

27:56

and her blood is acidic,

27:59

just like the aliens blood is,

28:02

so it's becoming increasingly clear that

28:05

she is perhaps part alien.

28:08

Then, when on a writer A. K. Call

28:10

goes to try to kill Ripley,

28:13

Call is trying to kind of secretly

28:15

stop the military people from

28:18

breeding the aliens. But then

28:20

she doesn't end up killing Ripley when she realizes

28:22

they've already taken the alien out of her, and

28:24

then this big fight breaks out between

28:27

the Space Pirates and the military

28:30

where most of the military end up dead.

28:32

This is also when hell just kind of generally

28:34

breaks loose, where a couple aliens

28:37

get loose from their enclosure

28:40

and kill several

28:42

people, including Dan

28:44

Hydeia and the character

28:47

Elgin And you

28:49

get that amazing what you're

28:51

saying earlier, crazy like your head

28:53

gets blown out and he's like, oh my brains.

28:55

And then and then Dan Hyday

28:58

goes home and he's like, Wow, this is going to be such a hell areas

29:00

comedy that I just shot, like

29:03

he who. I enjoyed

29:06

that moment a lot because I was like, yeah,

29:08

you know, he really does think that this is a

29:10

different genre, and I appreciate

29:12

his commitment. Yes, so

29:15

cartoony. We always quote Liz Lemon

29:18

at that point because she's got a line on

29:20

dirty rocks. I hope it's not an important part

29:22

of my blearn wow.

29:29

Okay. So then Ripley

29:31

teams up with the Space Pirates. One

29:34

of the scientists is also with

29:36

them, Wren, and they

29:39

have to start to figure out how to get off this

29:42

military ship that is now completely infested

29:44

with aliens. So they make their

29:46

way to their cargo freighter

29:48

called the Betty, and on the way,

29:51

Ripley discovers a room

29:53

with a bunch of past Ripley clones,

29:56

presumably the first seven that

29:58

didn't work out, because they keep calling her Ripley

30:00

eight. So it turns out they

30:03

were just you know, making all these like Ripley

30:05

slash alien hybrids. There's

30:08

all manner of body horror

30:10

in the scene, and then she destroys

30:12

all of them and then they move onward without

30:15

like a flamethrower. It's like she

30:18

couldn't destroy them any

30:20

more. Yeah, it's just it's cannon

30:22

for there to be a flamethrower death, and it's

30:25

cannon for someone to go kill me.

30:29

Which it's

30:31

nice to get a return to that in sort of a full

30:33

circle of it being Ripley love

30:36

a good callback. Yeah. Also,

30:38

so after Ripley destroys all

30:40

of the failed clones, Ron

30:43

Perlman's character is like, Wow,

30:46

what are ways to Ammo? And then like Ripley's

30:48

crying because she just had to kill all these versions of

30:50

herself, and He's like, oh, most

30:52

be a chick thing feminist

30:57

icon. Ron Perlman, I

31:00

love, I hope. I don't know anything about

31:02

Ron Perlman as a person, but I

31:04

really enjoy seeing him in movies and I

31:07

love his beauty

31:09

and the Beast CBS show that

31:11

he did with Girl Boss Linda Hamilton's

31:13

Belle Lawyer lived in

31:15

the Sewers of New York. If you have Paramount

31:18

Plus, he gotta watch it. It's

31:20

so bizarre. He breaks

31:23

when Sigourney Weaver for real makes the three

31:25

point line, throwing the basketball over like

31:28

into the basket. He immediately

31:30

breaks, And I just have to imagine that Sigourney

31:32

Weaver must have said nothing. Must have been so graceful

31:35

about it, but must have just been so furious

31:38

that he immediately ruined that shot.

31:42

I was reading. I was trying to find out

31:44

about that shot, because I guess

31:46

that there was like a popular myth for a while

31:48

that she got it on the first try. No, well,

31:51

the first take, she didn't get get it in rehearsal

31:54

Um. She trained really intensively

31:56

with the professional basketball player right for

31:59

like for like least. It a very intense

32:01

two weeks, and apparently

32:03

her trainer that she was supposed to not try to make

32:05

it, and her trainer come up to her and was like, trying

32:07

to make it, you can do it. She

32:10

did it. I heard she was trained by the Monstars,

32:13

and that's she was so good.

32:17

I like that. That's a good headcanon. Yeah, or

32:20

bugs, Bunny Bugs Bunny came over. He's like,

32:22

you've got this. She's spinning.

32:24

She's spinning the ball on her pointy manicure

32:26

that she has because she's part Aliens, so obviously

32:28

she has pointy black nails

32:31

like the Aliens, which seems

32:33

harder. I've never spun a basketball in my finger, and

32:35

I never will, but it seems harder. To do with the curl

32:37

nails. Yeah, she really makes

32:39

it look convincing, like when she's that

32:42

the choices made in that scene are all so

32:46

funny and good, Like that

32:48

scene in no way requires that she's playing

32:51

basketball very well. But who was

32:53

her idea? It's so good was

32:55

it that? It seems like from the interviews

32:57

that it was her idea because she imagined it

33:00

as the character kind of getting out of prison

33:02

and just trying to have a good time, which is also while

33:04

she keeps playing after beating people up.

33:07

Okay, I think it's it's

33:09

so funny, it's well, it's

33:11

the type of thing that where in a

33:13

movie that I think had been more competently

33:16

written for basketball

33:18

skills would I'm so sorry everyone played

33:20

later, would would pay off

33:23

in some way, but then they don't, and so the

33:25

skill of hers is just established for no reason,

33:29

and then we just move on from basketball. After

33:31

that, Christie's skills come back into

33:33

play. But from that scene, true,

33:36

Yeah, I did. I did kind of wish

33:39

on the second watch, I'm like, it would have been cool if basketball

33:41

came back. I don't know how it would have, but

33:43

it would have been cool at least be good

33:45

at throwing something would make

33:47

sense, right, like pay off

33:50

on that perfect shot. That's a good

33:52

throws blood later it's more of a

33:55

flick. It's true. I

33:57

think that's I don't think it comes. But also it's

34:00

the way this movie works. I'm like, you know what, if there's

34:02

a dropped thread, fine, I've

34:05

I'll never regret having watched

34:07

the basketball scene. There's so many

34:10

threads. Though, you can't complain about

34:12

that many threads, It's

34:14

true. Okay, So then the characters

34:16

have to swims through like the flooded

34:19

kitchen area. Aliens are

34:21

chasing them through the water. They make it

34:23

to the other side, but there's this huge

34:25

nest where the queen has laid a bunch of eggs.

34:28

Also in that underwater scene, the

34:30

other I like to call her other

34:33

woman, other lady. Yep, Hillard

34:36

dies and we'll miss her so much.

34:38

Just kidding. We don't know a single thing about her,

34:41

and I kept forgetting she had died.

34:43

Her feet gets such a closer close

34:45

up than her face, even right before she dies

34:47

in this movie. Yeah, I wonder give

34:49

her a closer close up. She's about to die.

34:52

The movie really like, the movie doesn't

34:54

even seem to care that they're coming off this character

34:56

to the play where I'm like, well, why did you add her

34:58

if she says no words

35:01

and she's in the way background

35:03

of every shot, and then they're just like, oh, and

35:05

also she died. He died. Yeah,

35:08

there was that shot that went all the way down her body

35:10

to her feet, So well there,

35:13

that's why they had her there. She's

35:17

also the character that I guess like she

35:19

and the Captain Elgin are

35:22

an item and he says something like,

35:24

oh, there's nothing hotter than seeing

35:26

a woman strap to a chair. That

35:29

does happen? I'm like, is that why she's

35:31

there? Like, there's so many different

35:34

creepy reasons that I hate that this

35:36

character could have been completely neglected

35:39

by the plot. Yeah,

35:42

poor whatever. That lady's name

35:44

is Hillard, R I p that lady

35:47

Hillard Hillard, Hillard Hillard.

35:50

Yes, justice for Hillard and

35:52

truly. So they are burst

35:55

onto the other side in the middle

35:57

of this nest. They're fighting

35:59

their way out this kind of trap. Some

36:01

people die along the way, like Winona

36:04

writer, including Christie, And I don't

36:06

know why. I've

36:08

seen this movie very many times and I don't understand

36:10

why Christie sacrifices himself like

36:13

acid to the face, big deal, But I don't

36:15

get the self sacrifice. Besides, he's

36:18

really good and we need him to go

36:20

away so that later other

36:22

deaths are more surprising, like

36:24

we need to lose our sharpshooter, but I don't understand

36:27

why he sacrifices himself. I was also

36:29

I also had questions

36:32

about that as well, because they also just

36:35

like there. It seems like

36:37

the second the plot starts to ramp

36:39

up, with the exception of like Sigourney

36:41

and Winona, they're like, let's just kill off

36:44

every woman and person of color we can,

36:46

so we're left with the worst

36:48

white guys that aren't well written

36:51

characters in the movie. And then our

36:53

leads like it just is like but

36:56

why but why?

36:58

Yeah, I mean, good question. Dr Wren's

37:01

death is kind of fun. Yeah,

37:04

yes, we do get left. Yeah

37:07

right, Okay, So Christie

37:09

dies, call a k Nona

37:12

writer dies, the military

37:14

science dude Wren betrays

37:16

them. He's the one who kills call just

37:19

kidding. She's not dead

37:21

because Big reveal she's

37:24

a robot, and then

37:26

they use her to like hack

37:28

into the ship and basically

37:31

set hacker dialogue

37:33

here where she's just like she uses

37:35

every buzzword available. She's like, yeah,

37:38

I had to hack into the ship's main frame to

37:40

the motherboard, and now where it's

37:42

all computers, You're like totally,

37:45

yes, I get it. Well,

37:47

it's revealed also that she's an auto toon,

37:50

and like there's a lot of

37:52

like you know, reproduction anxiety as it also

37:54

relates to like cloning and then making

37:56

robots throughout these movies. But

38:00

there's Ripley's prejudice against robots

38:03

throughout, and then in this world there's

38:05

at least not twentieth century racism like in Aliens,

38:09

but there's lots and lots of prejudice

38:11

against this new generation of robots

38:14

that were created by robots, and

38:16

so like it is cool, like everyone's

38:18

like really grossed out and treats in a writer

38:20

like I can't believe I almost fucked you, you gross

38:23

robot who had thrown control over

38:25

their actions another

38:28

just like Ron Perlman and

38:30

if you robot like okay,

38:33

I was, I was like, what is huh?

38:36

Yeah, there's another part where Elgin

38:39

is talking to Dan Hydaya's

38:41

character and he's just

38:43

like, yeah, did you see the new crew member

38:46

we've got isn't she so fuckable?

38:48

And he's talking about one on a writer's character

38:51

and yeah, and then everyone as soon as they find out she's

38:53

a robot, there like you gross

38:56

weird, like something that I think is like

38:59

and I and I will defer

39:01

to both of you for referencing

39:03

if this is a trend in the entire franchise,

39:07

but that, like, the misogyny

39:10

of the men in this movie is so over

39:12

the top that I feel like I

39:15

was just like, what is that? Like it's

39:17

it's maybe that's the genre thing, but it's

39:19

just so much and it seems

39:21

like they have to They make an effort to remind

39:24

you every ten minutes, like someone says something absolutely

39:27

like horrific. It's never

39:29

subtle, it's always really aggressive

39:31

and it doesn't ever really stop.

39:35

I don't know, And it's never sci fi

39:38

bigotry. It's never like this is

39:40

what sexism would be in the future.

39:42

And even their ship just

39:45

like regular sexism.

39:47

Their ship is called the Betty and has a pin

39:49

up girl on it, and it's just like

39:52

why why is there? Why is there this?

39:54

Why is it still this? Like I like,

39:57

I like there being only racism against robots,

39:59

like that's a on idea, but like I feel

40:01

like, come up with a new kind

40:04

of prejudice and then your crechequing

40:06

prejudice instead of just saying that in the

40:08

year twenty which

40:10

when does this one take place? Seventy

40:13

nine? I mean seventy

40:16

nine. Apparently we're making jokes about

40:18

illegal aliens, but nine

40:21

that's we still got pin up girls

40:23

on ships. I mean, fortunately in twenty three seventy

40:26

nine, um our species will be extinct,

40:28

so it's kind of a true the non

40:31

issue. But it is like this bizarre

40:33

like why is there

40:35

just seven misogyny

40:39

here? I guess because they're like, you're in

40:41

space, you can do whatever you want. But they're like, well,

40:43

women suck. Yeah, let's let's

40:45

make fun of the person in the wheelchair.

40:48

And also like how with my new

40:50

employee? Yeahipes,

40:53

there's a lot of it. Thanks Josh Weeden for

40:55

your amazing dialogue. Also, no no

40:58

room for a wet whiskey, but like

41:00

there's obviously a lot of water on the ship

41:02

that can leak out everywhere. Like that seems heavy,

41:05

true, very wet spaceships

41:07

throughout. I did like the whiskey cube

41:10

special effect, very very

41:13

satisfying, also apparently still lemons

41:15

and cherries, which is very optimistic

41:17

about there, Like

41:20

our military general is eating a lemon.

41:23

I didn't even think of that. Where

41:25

are the bees? Right? Um?

41:27

Okay? So they hack into the ship

41:30

basically call sets like a collision

41:32

course to crash the big ship

41:34

that the aliens have infested so that they

41:36

can get to the Betty and escape in

41:39

this smaller freighter. Then

41:41

as they're getting is there like rushing towards

41:43

the Betty, Ripley falls

41:46

through the floor and into

41:48

a pile of aliens. Then

41:51

she cuddles with

41:54

the queen, but it's but

41:56

it's sexy cuddling even though it's her

41:58

daughter, okay.

42:00

And then the queen who thanks

42:03

and a part of her and and weirdly

42:05

a clony part of her. Yeah,

42:07

yeah, they share jeans, not just because

42:10

she's the mom, right,

42:12

yes, I have so, I just

42:15

have all question marks in that area to

42:17

find out that like, okay,

42:19

we have no answers, okay,

42:21

okay, good okay. So and then the queen,

42:24

who thanks to Ripley, now has

42:26

a human reproductive system just

42:29

described as a gift. Just a guy

42:31

who has been trying to train the aliens

42:34

just like her gift to her was a human

42:36

reproductive system, which the movie does

42:39

subvert because the alien is so

42:41

obviously an agony,

42:43

which I like in

42:45

this movie that is so obsessed with this one

42:47

woman's maternity. This movie

42:49

at least is this is disgusting,

42:52

like human reproduction is disgusting and

42:54

supposed to the other movies that are like, oh, Egg's

42:56

bad, human who human? Make baby good?

42:58

You be mother and business like

43:01

aliens writhing around with this little

43:04

arms twitching about an agony.

43:07

Yeah, you're just like, why is everything so horny

43:09

and painful seeming in this one? Yeah,

43:12

equal parts horny and pain Okay,

43:15

So the queen has now has a human reproductive

43:17

system and then gives birth to this

43:22

half alien half like it

43:25

has a human skull face

43:27

and then also meals like a cat.

43:31

And so that's Ripley's grand

43:34

child. And the trainer guy

43:37

after watching Ripley,

43:39

I mean, if anything play the role

43:41

of father in this relationship,

43:44

then he says, look, he thinks

43:47

you're the mother, which I think

43:49

it's really funny and more of a critique of men

43:52

viewing the thing rather than like

43:54

actually making Ripley be the mother. Thinks

43:57

you're the mother and it's like, well, no,

43:59

it just Stroid. It's mother. It thinks

44:01

Ripley is it's God like,

44:04

it's not. It's really Ripley anyway,

44:06

and maybe we're getting too into it for the plot.

44:09

I love like that didn't click for me,

44:12

but I was like, what what are you talking about? She's obviously

44:14

not the mother. You'd watch the whole birth and

44:16

sex scene like cocoon. He's

44:21

really chilling in this cocoon. He's

44:23

one side note, the actor's IMDb photo

44:26

looks exactly like a picture of Buster Keaton.

44:28

This is like in Black Boy. Come. That

44:32

actor is Brad

44:34

Doriff, who played worm

44:37

Tongue in Lord of the

44:39

Rings as well as he's

44:41

a major character in One for Over the Cuckoo's

44:44

Nest. So he's

44:46

got range

44:50

anyway. Okay, so there's all the

44:52

weird like horny ancestual

44:55

cuddling. I'm sorry you forgot

44:57

his most important credit, Brad Dorriff is

44:59

the voice of Chucky. Oh

45:02

my God. Dora has appeared

45:04

in a number of horror films, most notably as the

45:06

voice of Chucky in the Whole Child's

45:09

Play franchise. He's canon Chucky.

45:12

I also think he as him

45:14

like as an actor, Like, were you not

45:16

just him voice acting Chucky? But I think he's

45:19

also in the Chucky movies as

45:21

a different character as well. But I might be completely

45:23

misremembering. No, I think you're right

45:25

Charles Lee Ray, who I think is like the serial

45:28

killer who's trapped inside of or Charles

45:30

Lee. Yeah, he's like one of the bad

45:32

guys in Chucky and also the real

45:35

bad guy, which is which is Chucky.

45:38

I watched Chucky for the first time last year

45:40

and I was like, damn, this is pretty good. I liked

45:43

it. It kind of holds up. Yeah,

45:45

I was like Chucky. And then I watched Aubrey Plaza

45:47

Chucky and it wasn't that bad.

45:50

It wasn't as good as original Chucky. But you

45:53

know, maybe well I don't know if we have anything

45:55

to say about Chucky on this particular

45:58

show, but it was fun. Sure.

46:00

So anyways, Chucky's in the movie. Chucky's

46:02

in the movie. He dies. There's

46:05

been all this horny ancestral

46:07

cuddling. And then Ripley

46:10

runs away and heads towards

46:13

the Betty ship, but

46:15

the weird alien

46:18

follows her and gets onto

46:20

the ship as well, and Ripley

46:23

and such a good deal though, it's

46:27

my goodness called trying to close the

46:29

door, and then the alien, baby alien

46:31

helps She was like, oh, baby alien,

46:34

that good or bad? That

46:37

scene. I when

46:41

Caitlin and Ikyl and I watched this together the

46:44

first time, and I

46:46

was like, maybe I just haven't been paying

46:48

close enough attention because I feel like

46:50

this whole dramatic cutting

46:53

back and forth feels very bizarre

46:55

and unearned. But then I watched the second time, I'm

46:57

like, no, it still feels

46:59

that wait where it's like something

47:02

about the editing in the scene where

47:04

it just it keeps cutting back to Sigourdy Weaver

47:06

for a little bit too long, where she's like and

47:09

then you come back to like this terrifying

47:12

like suck through a whole

47:15

bad c G. I I loved it. I love

47:17

that scene. It's so confusing

47:19

because what's about to happen is that

47:21

Ripley and Call have to deal with

47:23

the alien who's gotten on board the Betty

47:27

and Ripley flings her acid

47:29

blood onto a window and it creates this hole

47:32

and then the weird cat human

47:34

alien get sucked out

47:37

of the whole into space in

47:39

what is one of the most disgusting like

47:42

body horror things I've

47:44

ever seen. It takes its time,

47:47

and the movie really milks it

47:49

for a long time, but not before

47:52

Ripley kind of makes out with

47:55

the alien a k a. Her grandchild.

47:59

It's like horny nuzzling.

48:01

Yeah, it's very it's very charged.

48:04

Yes, And then the movie

48:07

ends with Ripley and call arriving on Earth

48:09

and they're like, wow, it's nice the

48:11

end. So let's

48:15

take another break and then we'll come back to discuss,

48:26

and we're back, Uh so crazy.

48:28

I kind of wanted to start with you here and sort

48:31

of let you lead

48:33

us through what are

48:35

we missing about this movie?

48:37

What are and

48:40

and like, what about the popular kind

48:42

of opinions surrounding this movie? Do

48:44

you feel very differently about Okay,

48:47

let me make my plea for Alien Resurrection,

48:50

because I think that it's

48:52

really kind of I really don't

48:54

like that this movie becomes so obsessed

48:56

with making Ripley into a mom.

48:59

Obviously it was written as female.

49:01

It took a long time for the writers to conceive

49:04

of any of the characters not being men, and

49:06

even longer for them to think, like, well, what

49:08

if it was even the lead? And

49:11

then the sequels like backstory

49:15

was actually a mom, but we're going to take that away.

49:17

Also like be a mom this whole movie,

49:20

which was cool at the time because

49:22

she's doing a good job at her job and being

49:24

a mom, which I guess like historical

49:26

context is powerful. And

49:29

then the third one, she's

49:31

pregnant the whole time, but within with an alien

49:34

and like it's like stick like you know. And then it's

49:37

obsessed with the fact that she is female bodied

49:39

because she's on a planet of rapists

49:41

that only rpe female body people apparently,

49:44

and have a religion that women are bad and comtresses

49:46

and should be kept far away, and

49:49

like, to me, that ruins the metaphor of it.

49:51

What I like about this monster is it's

49:53

a rape metaphor where everybody has

49:55

to have birth anxiety. And

49:57

I think a lot of movies that include

50:00

write metaphors are very very gendered,

50:02

and I like that it isn't doing that. But

50:04

these movies are kind of obsessed with Ripley being a mom

50:06

or not being a mom, and please be a mom. And

50:09

then I think Alien Resurrection has the opinion

50:11

that reproduction is disgusting,

50:14

and you think alien reproduction is disgusting,

50:16

like human reproduction also disgusting

50:19

and terrible for the mother, and aliens

50:21

are gross and other and to be killed,

50:23

but they are because of us. It's a xenomorph

50:26

like they're the way that they are

50:28

the like like, I don't know, I feel

50:30

like a lot of the xenomorphus bad qualities

50:32

come from us, and we see that in this movie

50:34

with the alien sacrificing the other one.

50:37

They kind of seem naturally high minded

50:39

or even like they might have whale type intelligence

50:42

and consciousness of the group, like ants or whales,

50:45

but because they are partially us,

50:48

they have this disgusting individualism.

50:51

And then this movie kind of takes

50:53

it even farther where then the

50:55

reproduction becomes human, and then

50:57

the baby becomes groutesquely more

51:00

human like. And then like

51:02

this alien baby who I just I love

51:04

and I'll give all the nipples to like I love alien

51:06

baby, um and the way that they

51:08

light it so maybe they get sucked through a hole.

51:11

Yes, I love alien baby. I feel for

51:13

alien baby. They really make

51:16

you watch her die. Yeah,

51:18

they really make you watch that baby die. But like

51:21

even when it's like even when

51:23

it's attacking, you don't know whether or not it's

51:25

attacking, and I feel like that's the human

51:28

not like you know, the xenomorphs

51:30

that were used to age very very quickly. But

51:32

this is more human, and it seems

51:35

a more emotionally volatile and it doesn't have

51:37

like a prime directive and at

51:39

one moment will be very very cute and cuddly

51:42

but then also screaming and like

51:44

as if it wants to attack you and sort of

51:46

how is that different than the human baby?

51:50

And I think what's cool

51:53

and what'sever feminist about these movies

51:55

is like the world is like, Rippley,

51:57

you should have a baby, Like why didn't you have a baby

52:00

two hundred and eighty four years ago or whatever?

52:02

And Ripley always chooses

52:04

to save humanity instead of like an

52:07

individual family, and like,

52:09

in that way is much more parental,

52:11

um and heroic than like

52:14

just like, let's have this character be a mother

52:16

who wants to get home to see her daughter's

52:18

eleventh birthday. Um. So,

52:20

what I love about this movie is I feel like you really get

52:22

into who is disgusting.

52:24

Is it the xenomorpher is it the humanity

52:26

that they have adopted genetically? And

52:30

this movie is just really like like reproduction

52:32

in general is disgusting. It's gross when

52:34

robots to do it themselves. It's gross when we

52:36

clone things. It's gross when aliens

52:38

have babies, and it's also gross when humans

52:41

have babies. It is terrible and traumatic and

52:43

disgusting. And why is there still humanity

52:45

in the year twenty three? Whatever this

52:48

is? I mean, I

52:51

totally like, I I thank you

52:53

for like laying that out

52:56

for us, because it feels like this movie has not

52:58

gotten this out

53:00

of like love and

53:02

attention to detail. I'm so interested in that

53:04

because that was like, I still

53:06

have a lot of confusion honestly, and like

53:09

some criticism around this movie, but I did

53:11

like one thing that really hit for

53:13

me in ripley eight's character

53:16

in this movie was and

53:18

I feel like it's I guess that

53:21

they explore it kind of thoroughly. It's all

53:23

over the place, but the idea that

53:26

she is considered worthless

53:28

after the baby has been taken

53:30

out of her, and like I think Dan Hydeal

53:33

literally refers to her as like she's a sack

53:35

of meat to us at this point, we don't

53:37

care. And I feel like that does say something

53:39

about how we in

53:43

today years still

53:45

kind of characterized mothers,

53:48

or or how people with

53:50

with wombs are characterized after they've

53:52

you know, quote unquote served their purpose and perpetuated

53:56

the human race and

53:58

all and all of that, and and how

54:00

ripley eight is determined

54:03

to continue to

54:05

just like find purpose and meaning

54:08

in whatever that means for her

54:10

after it's clear that

54:13

the structure in which she has been

54:15

brought into has seen her as like outliving

54:17

her use I feel like you can apply that to

54:20

motherhood, you can apply that to just aging

54:22

in general, and like she

54:24

feels confident that she still has purpose

54:28

and wants to keep learning more about herself

54:30

after people have told her

54:32

that she no longer is useful. So from

54:34

from that perspective, I really like that's

54:37

the part of ripley eight journey

54:40

that I felt like was really effective.

54:43

And then there's a bunch of other stuff also, right

54:46

my my, I

54:48

think there could be a

54:51

parallel drawn between

54:54

some of the stuff that's happening in this movie and

54:57

the things that are happening in tech

55:00

exist right now. As far as the

55:02

abortion band and like an obsession

55:05

of being control in control

55:07

of the bodies of

55:10

like childbearing people, where

55:13

this movie I guess I was

55:15

maybe oversimplifying things in my brain

55:18

in terms of like this franchise

55:20

does get more and more obsessed

55:23

with like reproduction, especially

55:25

as it pertains to wombs

55:27

and birthing and motherhood,

55:31

where like the first movie you just established

55:33

that basically anyone

55:36

can get impregnated by these face huggers

55:38

and then you give birth out of your

55:40

chest, and that's what we see happening

55:42

to John Hurt's character. Aliens

55:45

heightens this where we see

55:48

that happening I think, to a few different

55:50

characters, and then we see like the

55:52

Queen mother laying eggs, and

55:55

then like Ripley becomes

55:57

a de facto mother to Newt and then

55:59

it's like you said, this kind of like Cannon

56:02

gets retroactively established that she

56:04

was also previously a mother. I

56:06

would say, Alien three, there

56:09

isn't quite so much like birth

56:11

thing type imagery

56:14

and metaphor, but that she's

56:16

saved and she's precious because

56:18

she's pregnant with an alien. Yes, that's

56:20

that's true. That's true. And then this

56:23

movie, like we've hinted

56:25

at, there's so much imagery, like

56:28

every few minutes it seems

56:30

like there's some birth metaphor

56:32

happening, or there's some reference to

56:35

wounds and reproduction,

56:38

and I mean, and sometimes it's not even

56:40

if it's not stated, it's visually

56:42

stated, where it's like when they get out

56:44

of the water thing, they have to like kind

56:47

of born themselves again because there's that

56:49

weird little birth shell that they got to punch

56:51

through. I'm like, oh, and then they all got

56:53

borned again. You take your first breath

56:56

again, People keep being

56:59

born. I mean, even the way that baby

57:01

alien dies, it's getting sucked

57:04

through a hole that

57:06

could maybe even be considered like a birth

57:09

metaphor. But then

57:11

I was, as you were kind of laying

57:13

all of that out, Gracie, I was like, oh,

57:16

well, this movie is largely about

57:18

this group of men who are

57:22

doing all of these like experiments

57:24

and cloning and obsessed with They're

57:26

the ones who are obsessed with this

57:29

reproduction and these

57:31

creatures with wombs and birth thing

57:33

and all that stuff. Much this way that like

57:36

conservative lawmakers are

57:39

obsessed with controlling

57:41

again the bodies of child bearing

57:44

people. So I

57:46

wonder, I don't know how much intentional

57:48

commentary there is on

57:50

that in this movie, but I think there's like an interesting

57:53

parallel that you can draw

57:55

in terms of like Yeah, look, how obsessed

57:57

these people who don't

58:00

really understand quote

58:02

unquote female reproduction and

58:04

wombs and bodily

58:06

autonomy and having choices

58:08

over your own body. Like they

58:11

clone Ripley without her consent.

58:14

They don't know if she was already

58:17

impregnated with the alien

58:19

or if they impregnate her either

58:21

way, Like that whole thing happens without

58:24

her consent, and then all

58:26

this other stuff just like they're

58:29

just making choices for these

58:31

people and or creatures. Yeah.

58:33

Yeah, like it's wait, you're blowing

58:35

our minds or alien

58:38

resurrection good. Actually, well,

58:42

I think you know, we've seen the

58:44

military in this in this world

58:47

two years before that and this,

58:49

and uh, there are a lot

58:51

of not a lot of them get named

58:53

aloud, and um, a lot of them die pretty early,

58:56

but there are men and women in the military. And

58:58

I think it is intentional in the script that all

59:01

of these military people who were outside

59:03

of like legal jurisdiction to they're like in an area

59:05

of space where like things aren't controlled.

59:08

Um, but they're all male. And then

59:11

also the ship is father instead

59:13

of mother like in the other movies. Yeah,

59:16

and like you know, like in your

59:18

previous discussion about alien like there's

59:20

even like should that count as the character? I

59:22

think it's really problematic to make subservient

59:25

robots and computers female. Like the

59:27

first year that Siri came out, the number one

59:29

question that she was asked it was what's your brass eyes?

59:32

And we had a conversation like that in

59:34

the in the her episode a couple of years

59:36

ago. Now where it's like that is such a like

59:38

there is a psychological human

59:41

conditioning by society not by

59:43

nature, that people are more

59:46

comfortable telling female

59:48

voice what to do, yeah, and then yelling

59:51

at it when it's wrong. That's not what I

59:53

asked for, Yeah, right, yeah. Um.

59:55

And I I think I think it is intentional that it's

59:58

father, And I think it is intentional that it's that

1:00:00

these character

1:00:02

like ridiculous over the top cartoon

1:00:04

isial men think that they can possess

1:00:07

life and control and profit off of life

1:00:09

and they can't control the aliens and they can't control

1:00:11

Ripley and it's the death of them all. Um.

1:00:14

So I do think I do think it is intentionally commenting

1:00:16

on that. Um. There is one female

1:00:19

character who is on their side who

1:00:21

has just builled as antithesiologist UM,

1:00:24

and that does not follow the

1:00:26

loftest rule of women with least

1:00:28

hair has most power. It's true, It's

1:00:30

true, which is unfortunate. She is the baldest

1:00:33

woman, but she is not in

1:00:35

charge. She's the opposite of in charge

1:00:38

and unnamed, which I feel like a lot

1:00:40

of these characters don't have allowed names. To give them

1:00:43

a name. Yeah, yeah,

1:00:45

true, Like it's I mean, I

1:00:47

guess Hillard technically has a name, but

1:00:49

also they forgot to write her a character. Yeah.

1:00:52

And kind of going off of that discussion,

1:00:55

the other thing that really worked

1:00:57

for me in in this be

1:01:00

was the connection that

1:01:02

call in Ripley eight end up forming

1:01:06

by listening to each

1:01:08

other, because it's what I whatever call

1:01:10

has we we learned has been

1:01:13

you know, told and programmed by the

1:01:15

patriarchal structure that she

1:01:17

was made by to destroy

1:01:21

Ripley. But in connecting

1:01:23

with each other in a way that makes sense in story,

1:01:26

they're not just like, oh where you

1:01:28

know, we're the women characters, so we have to band

1:01:30

together and be friends in a vague

1:01:33

way. But it's like you have like two

1:01:35

real scenes with them figuring

1:01:37

each other out and forming

1:01:41

uh bond and a friendship

1:01:43

and at first honestly, going into this episode,

1:01:45

I was like, Wow, we have like five million

1:01:48

asshole human men and are too

1:01:51

like the two women who are the leads of this movie.

1:01:54

They have I think humanity

1:01:56

in the from the story aspect, but it's

1:01:58

like a Lien clone

1:02:02

born Sigourney yesterday and

1:02:05

uh robot Winona. But

1:02:07

the more we talk about it, the less

1:02:10

I'm fixating on that.

1:02:12

I don't know, because I do because they're They're scenes

1:02:15

together are very are are very I think like

1:02:17

you understand why they band together, and you

1:02:19

understand why Ripley eight is

1:02:22

choosing call Over

1:02:24

baby Yeah, And I think,

1:02:27

you know, kind of the lock in of this movie

1:02:29

is finding out that those two characters share a

1:02:31

common goal, even though the scene is called

1:02:33

going to kill her, and they

1:02:35

do have this like like, you know, why are they keeping you alive?

1:02:38

Like I don't know the newest thing. So I think that

1:02:40

they are both women who are

1:02:42

supposed to feel ashamed of their bodies

1:02:44

by the patriarchal system in which they exist,

1:02:47

and Ripley refuses

1:02:50

to and embraces what is different

1:02:52

about her clone body, and the same happens

1:02:54

with call Um. I

1:02:56

think it's kind of cool that like there's

1:02:59

the there, like it's an auton in a in a

1:03:01

clone, and yet they're like, no, I'm

1:03:03

gonna I'm gonna be powerful and like

1:03:06

try to find happiness on my own and Call

1:03:08

is so ashamed of her body and learns

1:03:10

not to be because it saves the day and then says,

1:03:13

father's gone asshole and then it's great, right,

1:03:16

and and like their common journey

1:03:18

of being told

1:03:20

what they're good for and what they're supposed

1:03:23

to be doing and realizing that

1:03:26

there are other ways to

1:03:28

be and to like whatever.

1:03:32

Like I was like, oh my god, I need to text with

1:03:34

therapist. Shame deep programming,

1:03:37

let's say, like d

1:03:39

programming your own shame de programming

1:03:42

your you know, just the

1:03:44

idea that your quote unquote

1:03:46

creator or your overlord or whoever

1:03:49

it is. For them, it's like their literal creator.

1:03:51

Um, what they ascribe as the meaning

1:03:53

of your life isn't what Like

1:03:56

they don't get to decide that. So

1:03:59

in that way, wow, movie

1:04:01

good. And I like that they have conflict

1:04:03

again because it seems like you get them

1:04:05

together in a scene and they realize they have the same

1:04:08

enemy and like here it is. It's going to be Sigourney

1:04:10

and Monona being buddies against the aliens,

1:04:12

and then the next time we see them again, they're fighting

1:04:14

and they have completely different points of views of how

1:04:17

they should be doing things and who should

1:04:19

be in charge, and I like that there's that conflict.

1:04:22

I also, I love I love when

1:04:24

it seems like Sigourney is going to flame throw

1:04:26

Dr Wren and then she

1:04:29

ends up like it's like giving the gun away and

1:04:31

say, don't do what and then

1:04:33

Bona just gives perfect punch to

1:04:35

the face the Doctor Wren, which just like such

1:04:37

a great moment, which

1:04:41

you guys talked about the like men punching

1:04:43

women and women punching men thing that happens

1:04:46

in action sci fi genre and

1:04:48

I think You're Aliens episode, yes,

1:04:51

and there is like you know,

1:04:53

and there's some there's some superhuman

1:04:55

element to this. But Sigourney

1:04:57

does get barbelled and the nose prettier,

1:05:00

oh my gosh, yeah, and she fights right

1:05:02

back and like she I mean, yeah,

1:05:05

there there's there seems to be very little

1:05:07

anxiety that this movie has about

1:05:09

who's fighting who. It's like whoever in

1:05:12

the scene it needs to

1:05:14

be fighting, even

1:05:16

if it's mid basketball game. Oh

1:05:19

my gosh. Yeah, I didn't feel

1:05:21

I mean, even though there's violence

1:05:24

inflicted upon women,

1:05:26

it didn't feel specifically

1:05:29

gendered or as though like women were

1:05:31

being targeted because they were women. It just

1:05:33

felt like these are characters

1:05:35

in an action movie, equal opportunity

1:05:38

inflicting violence and violence

1:05:41

being inflicted upon you regardless

1:05:44

of gender, which I

1:05:46

suppose is parody.

1:05:49

Yeah, right, like and

1:05:51

and I didn't. I was I was kind of waiting. I was like,

1:05:53

Okay, let's

1:05:55

see when uh, women

1:05:58

is going to be tossed to the side in the

1:06:00

middle of an action scene to be like, we gotta keep ships,

1:06:02

like whatever. Mary Jane at the

1:06:05

climax of Spider Man two, they're like, we had

1:06:07

to trap her and very sticky web. But because

1:06:09

what if she tried to punch someone, um

1:06:12

someone you mean Doc? I

1:06:15

yes, I do. What if she

1:06:18

what if Mary Jane was like, I'm going with Doc dog

1:06:21

that would have been smarter. I'll allow it.

1:06:23

My head, Kennon, this is

1:06:25

a this is a tangent, and you can cut it out. But

1:06:27

because listening to your Aliens

1:06:29

episode earlier today, it was brought up

1:06:32

to both of you. But I can't like the

1:06:34

conversation happened to Caitlin Darante,

1:06:36

who has a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston

1:06:39

University, about the fight sequence

1:06:41

in john Wick two against Ruby Rose,

1:06:44

and it's I guess it's important to discuss

1:06:46

john Wick fights women. But more importantly

1:06:48

to tell Caitlin Darante, who has a master's degree in screenwriting

1:06:51

from Boston University, is that that fight

1:06:53

happens at the moment in Act two where John

1:06:55

Wick should like reflect

1:06:57

upon himself and then grow and change and real. I

1:07:00

said, he needs his need instead of his wont because

1:07:02

it's a John Wick movie that's never going to happen.

1:07:04

So instead of that, he has a fight sequence with Ruby

1:07:06

Rose and an art installation of mirrors

1:07:09

called the Reflection of the Self. Oh

1:07:13

my god, I feel like that was Keia news

1:07:15

idea. That sounds like a k He was like, what if

1:07:17

he called it reflections of the self, like unspoken

1:07:20

screenwriting joke. That is very

1:07:22

funny. And thank

1:07:25

you for bringing up my master's degree in screenwriting,

1:07:28

because you know I would never like it

1:07:30

hasn't been coming up in flavor. It hasn't been coming

1:07:32

up because I would never bring it up, so you

1:07:34

would, you never would. I appreciate you doing it, Gracie,

1:07:37

thank you. Unspoken

1:07:40

screenwriting jokes very good. I appreciate

1:07:43

that. Yeah, Um, can we talk

1:07:45

about the Rice character

1:07:48

Dom Price, like we we've

1:07:50

had this discussion many times on

1:07:52

the show at this point, but Dom

1:07:55

Ryce is a wheelchair

1:07:57

bound character who is

1:07:59

played by all accounts that I

1:08:01

was able to find a not a disabled

1:08:03

actor, which again

1:08:05

is like such a nineties

1:08:08

I mean, a very casting

1:08:11

decision that is

1:08:13

just like, it's so unnecessary. I

1:08:16

feel like we're repeat it's always worth repeating

1:08:18

that there are so many talented disabled

1:08:20

actors that would have fucking

1:08:23

nailed that part. Yes, so

1:08:25

I wanted to call that out and

1:08:27

also and also just discussed that character a

1:08:29

little bit, yes, because the way that he

1:08:31

is treated, especially

1:08:33

by Ron Perlman's character

1:08:36

John Or, is astonishingly

1:08:40

horrible. Where I feel like this

1:08:42

is a pretty common thing for

1:08:44

if there is an inclusion of a

1:08:47

marginalized character in some

1:08:50

way, and here specifically

1:08:52

a character with physical disability,

1:08:56

where there is an inclusion

1:08:58

invisibility, but it

1:09:01

comes at the cost of that

1:09:03

character being horribly

1:09:06

abused, bullied aggressively.

1:09:10

That seems to be the whole function of the Ron Perlman

1:09:13

character in this movie in a way that doesn't

1:09:15

really work for me, And I think that is like kind

1:09:18

of a Josh Weeden and like nineties

1:09:21

two thousand writer. Thing that

1:09:23

is done is the idea

1:09:25

of the run probing character is he

1:09:28

we know of how because

1:09:30

of how he's written and presented that he's wrong, but

1:09:32

I feel like you're still encouraged to laugh along

1:09:34

with him. So what is the point of telegraphing

1:09:37

to the audience this guy is an asshole? But

1:09:39

also the way he's delivering them, like their

1:09:41

comedy lines there, I think that they're

1:09:44

supposed to be perceived as comedy

1:09:46

lines. And so when he's teasing

1:09:49

and abusing the only

1:09:51

disabled character or you

1:09:53

know, just firing off every sexist missive

1:09:56

he could possibly think of, then

1:09:58

it's like, well, what it feels

1:10:00

like having it both ways in a way

1:10:02

that doesn't work, especially because he's one

1:10:04

of the few characters that survives through

1:10:07

the entire movie. He died. It

1:10:09

would be one thing if he was an asshole

1:10:11

to everyone and then we understood

1:10:13

that and his lines weren't played for comic

1:10:16

relief, and then he was killed, like punished

1:10:18

by being killed. But that

1:10:20

doesn't happen In fact, at the end,

1:10:22

when Ripley and Call have killed

1:10:24

the final baby alien by sucking

1:10:26

it out of a hole in the window, even though

1:10:28

the two of them seem completely fine

1:10:30

and do don't get their guts sucked out

1:10:33

of the window. Well, I think they bother. They're

1:10:35

supposed to have a little bit of superhuman

1:10:37

going on. Oh that makes sense.

1:10:39

Yeah, I think because you know, Cal's a robot

1:10:42

and because Ripley's part alien,

1:10:44

they're able to hold on and

1:10:46

be okay, and they're pretty close to that mystery.

1:10:49

I think that. Yeah. I think that's

1:10:51

the reason that it's like if the

1:10:53

one what is the military guys left over to Stephano,

1:10:56

if he was still there and hadn't been killed, I

1:10:58

think he would have not been so okay with that. Yeah.

1:11:01

Good, I guess I'll suspend my disbelief

1:11:03

for that. They're also they buckle

1:11:06

themselves into the wall, so

1:11:08

I guess they're fine anyway.

1:11:11

So when Ripley returns

1:11:13

from that big climactic defeat

1:11:16

of the alien, Ron Promin's

1:11:18

character throws off a little quip where

1:11:20

he's just like or he's just like, hey,

1:11:22

Ripley, and then she's like, you remembered

1:11:25

my name or something, and then there's like kind of

1:11:27

like a comedic growth, like yeah,

1:11:30

like a nice moment between them, I guess

1:11:32

is what that's meant to be. And it's like, no, you don't

1:11:34

get to redeem yourself after you've

1:11:37

verbally assaulted like

1:11:39

every person in the cast of the

1:11:41

movie. Even this, Like

1:11:43

I mean it is obviously a terrible

1:11:45

bully and a terrible bigot, but even just

1:11:48

the tiniest bits of his actions

1:11:50

are just unforgivable. Like he gets mad at cow

1:11:52

for wasting his homemade liquor and

1:11:54

then throws Christie's,

1:11:56

Like he gets upset at Ripley for

1:11:58

wasting Ammo and then shoots

1:12:00

a spider a spider. Why

1:12:03

that is the funniest part of the movie. You're just

1:12:05

the worst guy. That is comedy

1:12:08

gold and I'm obsessed with it. Okay,

1:12:10

that's a great moment. But he's a hypocrite. Yeah,

1:12:14

he's awful. I will say. For

1:12:16

getting back to Dom's character a little

1:12:19

bit, I would also be very curious to hear what our

1:12:21

disabled listeners who have seen this movie made

1:12:24

of how he was characterized

1:12:26

throughout the movie. One thing that I

1:12:29

was I encouraged

1:12:31

isn't the word not horrified

1:12:34

by, I guess is that

1:12:36

that Dom remains extremely

1:12:38

active throughout all of the action

1:12:40

scenes, where I

1:12:43

feel like there is such a tendency to

1:12:46

Sideline and Kirsten Dunston,

1:12:48

the Spider Web characters

1:12:51

who are disabled in action

1:12:53

sequences specifically, but in a lot of genres

1:12:56

um He is like those action

1:12:58

sequences, particularly like once they're on

1:13:00

the ladder and all this stuff, Like those scenes

1:13:03

don't work if his character is removed

1:13:05

from the scene. And so I

1:13:08

did like that Dom

1:13:11

is in the in the way that there's

1:13:13

parody across genders

1:13:16

in action. It seems like there was a

1:13:18

fair amount of parody with ability as

1:13:20

well in the action scenes, which was cool. Yeah,

1:13:22

I felt that too, And I think it's notable

1:13:24

that he also survives until the end

1:13:27

and that he doesn't go I feel like

1:13:29

a lot of movies would have killed

1:13:31

off a disabled character specifically

1:13:34

because of their like they wouldn't

1:13:36

have survived because of their disability,

1:13:39

And I think that it's actually pretty remarkable

1:13:41

that the filmmakers let that

1:13:43

character survive until the end. It's

1:13:45

true, you can't say the same

1:13:48

for how non white characters

1:13:50

in this movie are treated.

1:13:52

That is true. I mean I think that Christie,

1:13:55

who, by the way, is played It took me so long

1:13:57

into the movie. I'm like, I know this

1:13:59

guy. I kept thinking of that the actor

1:14:01

Gary Dordan is his name, and

1:14:03

I was like looking at him, I was like thinking

1:14:06

of my aunt's house. I'm like, what

1:14:08

is the connection between this

1:14:10

man and my aunt's house. He was on c s I

1:14:13

for like ten years and my aunt used

1:14:15

to love that show. So I was like, Oh, it's c

1:14:17

s I guy, So whatever, that's a useless

1:14:19

fact that you can know. But I

1:14:22

would argue that he's He's Christie

1:14:24

is the only black character who

1:14:26

has a lot of influence

1:14:29

on what goes on in the plot. There

1:14:31

are other people of color, just it's

1:14:33

just Christie and the soldier who gets

1:14:35

frozen who are black. And then

1:14:37

there's the two Latin X

1:14:40

military men, including the general and then

1:14:42

the one who makes it a long time right.

1:14:45

But it's like even even the guy who lives a long

1:14:47

time, I don't I don't know what his name was,

1:14:49

or like what anything about him. In

1:14:51

the same way that like with the other

1:14:53

lady, we don't know anything about

1:14:55

her. She she makes it about halfway, but

1:14:57

like who was that no idea.

1:15:00

I didn't know until listening to y'all's

1:15:02

episodes that this franchise

1:15:04

never has a woman of color character

1:15:07

or guest character. But Vasquez

1:15:10

is played by a white woman. What Vasquez

1:15:13

is played by a white woman

1:15:15

in brown face in the movie Aliens?

1:15:17

It is? It is true, Like, I

1:15:20

feel like there are not many

1:15:22

popular movies with stuff that ages

1:15:25

quite as poorly as brown face character

1:15:27

and one of the best regarded sci fi movies of all time.

1:15:30

It's so infuriating. And also,

1:15:32

I mean this franchise for as

1:15:35

much as I am like genuinely being

1:15:37

swung to the side of like, this movie is pretty

1:15:39

good, um, because

1:15:42

Cracy is a worker of

1:15:45

miracles. All I'm saying it's better

1:15:47

than thirty nine, better

1:15:49

than I'll

1:15:52

give it a forty one. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:15:56

But but this, I mean throughout it's

1:15:59

for a for a franchise that is really

1:16:02

fixated on reproduction anxiety,

1:16:05

which I do think is a topic that isn't

1:16:07

off the table for you know, men

1:16:10

to explore. I think that

1:16:12

that's like, it's a it's a

1:16:14

worthy it's a topic that affects anyone

1:16:16

who's ever been born. So sure people

1:16:19

are you know, entitled to explore

1:16:21

that topic, but the fact that it's like if

1:16:23

you go through the production, like the top level

1:16:25

production of every single one of these movies,

1:16:28

it's it's just guys. It's

1:16:31

just white guys, Like it's man yeah,

1:16:34

and it's like, we just let's get some other voices

1:16:36

in the room here, maybe with uh,

1:16:38

with you know, people who have been on both

1:16:41

sides of of this uh

1:16:43

of this thing. I'm about to say

1:16:46

a kind of gender normative thing. But

1:16:48

um, I think that if there was anybody

1:16:50

in charge who was female bodied in this production,

1:16:53

they would have shopped the close up of her

1:16:55

manicure on a day where it wasn't so grown

1:16:58

out like it her

1:17:00

cocoon birth. I was like, that's a

1:17:02

two week old manicure, Like this is the

1:17:04

one time you were going to shoot a close up of it?

1:17:07

Like I mean, maybe they were like, well,

1:17:10

it'll be too unrealistic. If

1:17:13

where did you get this manicure on a ship? We have

1:17:15

to let it grow out so it looks I don't I believe

1:17:17

that they just don't. They weren't looking and they're

1:17:20

supposed to be her nails, and

1:17:22

like it doesn't look like nails. Because

1:17:24

it looks like a grown out acrylic manicure and

1:17:28

it really bluts me. But there that's

1:17:30

like a very valid point. It's like I feel like that is

1:17:32

like almost giving the same like the

1:17:34

ponytail moment in Birds of Prey

1:17:37

where it's like if you know, you know

1:17:39

um, and if you don't, people

1:17:41

are gonna make fun of you for

1:17:44

not attempting to know. Yeah,

1:17:46

I don't. Yeah this this I

1:17:49

forget what I was about to say something

1:17:51

about birth. I feel like we've talked

1:17:53

a lot about birth. Uh

1:17:56

yeah. My notes for this movie were pretty sparse.

1:17:59

It was mostly um round problem and

1:18:01

shoots a spider the

1:18:03

end. I have a lot of I

1:18:06

honestly like being able to understand

1:18:08

this movie through your

1:18:11

perspective crazy. I feel like it's genuinely

1:18:13

been very very helpful to me to understand because

1:18:15

it is like there is a

1:18:17

lot of interesting stuff

1:18:20

going on here, and then I just feel like it doesn't

1:18:22

quite go as far as I would like it too

1:18:24

in other areas. And also

1:18:27

just like, yeah, this movie is really erotic,

1:18:29

you know, in

1:18:31

a in a way that like I don't hate it.

1:18:34

It's just like it's I like,

1:18:36

that's not even a criticism I have as much

1:18:38

as an unavoidable observation.

1:18:41

Well, it's erotic between

1:18:45

Ripley and her alien

1:18:47

offspring, so I do have a problem

1:18:49

with it in the sense that it's incestuous.

1:18:53

I get. I mean, I can see that. I it's

1:18:56

so cuckoo that it didn't

1:18:58

super bother me, and

1:19:01

like, I guess it is like the

1:19:04

gendered way that people interact

1:19:06

with xeno morphs is like

1:19:08

I feel like that. That is more what stuck

1:19:10

with me of watching back old

1:19:12

scenes from alien and aliens and

1:19:15

men being so freaked

1:19:17

out by being inhabited by

1:19:19

a parasite and then m

1:19:22

child bearing people like inherently

1:19:25

being like, no, I must protect

1:19:27

the parasite, as if this is just like a

1:19:29

universal response like I

1:19:31

don't. Yeah, see what I love

1:19:34

about it as a monster her babies

1:19:36

a lot? Yeah, yeah, I

1:19:38

really I really like that it it equalizes

1:19:41

birth anxiety. And from

1:19:43

a writer who thinks that men might have

1:19:45

womb anxiety, this movie does not

1:19:47

suggest that anybody has womb anxiety. And

1:19:51

I think that really, I

1:19:52

don't know, I really like that about

1:19:54

this monster and I hate like

1:19:58

making the fear of it gender it at

1:20:00

all, But I do think that

1:20:02

the relationship between Ripley

1:20:04

and the alien baby

1:20:06

is to me, it's supposed

1:20:09

to be more God destroying

1:20:12

their own creation then

1:20:14

mother rejecting child. And

1:20:18

I like that the prequels

1:20:20

did not exist even as a as an idea.

1:20:22

I don't think at this at this moment, but

1:20:25

then like that really does resonate,

1:20:27

and I think that gives this movie a good place

1:20:29

in the franchise, is that these

1:20:31

movies become less about the anxiety

1:20:34

of acts like birthing an alien

1:20:36

and more about what have we created

1:20:38

as humanity and do we need to destroy

1:20:40

it? And then there's of course this other alien

1:20:42

species that created us and intends to destroy

1:20:44

it, and that's where there's unit more goo comes

1:20:47

from. Um.

1:20:49

But yeah, it feels it feels more to

1:20:51

me like this movie is this This is

1:20:53

maybe just an optimistic reading of it, but it feels

1:20:55

like this franchise is like, Ripley, you need to

1:20:57

be a mom. Go be a mom. You're a mom.

1:21:00

M you're a woman, you have a wound, you're gonna get

1:21:02

raped, and you're going to be a mom. And then

1:21:04

this movie is like, no, Ripley's a fucking god

1:21:06

and she's going to reject her own creation and saving

1:21:09

to save gosh

1:21:12

well, but I feel like, like

1:21:14

how much of it was originally

1:21:17

sexual and how much of that is just really

1:21:19

Scott noticing the hr guy your

1:21:21

designs, But then even like the way that they're creating

1:21:24

those designs the actual pieces

1:21:26

on set, Like whose idea

1:21:28

was it that the phace hugger is literally an oyster.

1:21:31

It's a it's

1:21:33

the vaginast vagina monster

1:21:36

I've seen in a while, and

1:21:39

that's saying something because they get pretty

1:21:41

vagina, but it's also a penis monster.

1:21:44

I have written on my arm from you earlier,

1:21:46

Jamie, don't wax my flaps

1:21:52

flapped things. But it's I think that

1:21:54

it's it's a penis horror and it's a vulva

1:21:56

horror, and it's the horror of

1:21:59

birth for every body.

1:22:01

Yeah, and then Alien three is just like what

1:22:03

if instead of the metaphor, she was just always

1:22:06

about to get raped all the time? Like,

1:22:08

thanks, David, interesting

1:22:11

idea, And I want to I want

1:22:13

to be clear that, like we hear on

1:22:15

the Bechtel cast and we've talked about this before,

1:22:17

but motherhood is something we obviously

1:22:20

fully support. Assuming a person

1:22:22

who becomes a mother wants to

1:22:24

be a mother. I don't want to sound

1:22:26

like we are condemning motherhood or

1:22:29

childbirth in any way. What

1:22:32

we are critical of is the patriarchal

1:22:34

expectation for anyone

1:22:36

with a womb to give birth and

1:22:39

to become a mother and go through that process,

1:22:41

and the expectation that that's basically the

1:22:43

sole purpose of a person with a womb,

1:22:46

regardless of whether or not that person

1:22:48

wants to be a mother and be a parent, because

1:22:51

historically that's been what society

1:22:54

values and expects of

1:22:56

people with wounds. And

1:22:59

so again, it's oppressive expectation

1:23:02

that we take issue with. It's

1:23:04

completely anti choice, and it's

1:23:07

turkey, and it's get your creepy

1:23:09

laws away from

1:23:12

which in this world still

1:23:15

hasn't been resolved by the twenty

1:23:17

three hundreds, which is like just

1:23:20

wacky enough to believe

1:23:24

and also still smoking. I guess,

1:23:27

yeah, well, you know, big

1:23:29

tobacco. It's wild. Is

1:23:32

there any other stuff?

1:23:35

We That was all I had for? Note? What

1:23:37

is there? Are there anything we hasn't we

1:23:39

haven't hasn't, haven't touched on yet.

1:23:42

I've covered everything I had.

1:23:45

Yeah, I think we nailed it. I think

1:23:47

we blew alien Resurrection wide

1:23:49

open. I also

1:23:52

just wanted to give the back tol

1:23:54

cast a tip of the hat for how many movies

1:23:56

we've covered that came out in the year as

1:24:00

the production conflicts for

1:24:02

this movie, when Janet was trying

1:24:04

to get space to film

1:24:07

this movie because they, I guess the other alien movies

1:24:09

were shot in England. This was shot

1:24:11

in Hollywood because Sigourney was a

1:24:14

co producer and she was just like, why

1:24:16

the international commute, which

1:24:18

I think is like really very

1:24:21

good use of power. But they

1:24:23

were shooting at uh like a Hollywood

1:24:25

lot, and they

1:24:28

had difficulty securing studio space

1:24:30

because of Titanic, and because

1:24:32

of Starship Troopers, and because

1:24:35

of the Lost World Jurassic Park.

1:24:37

So there were just so many huge movies

1:24:39

filming in in Hollywood studios.

1:24:42

In the

1:24:45

best of them, of course, being Titanic,

1:24:47

the best movie ever made,

1:24:50

ever made, ever made.

1:24:52

It's a it's a fact. Um does

1:24:54

this movie pass the Bechtel test? It actually

1:24:56

does quite a lot. It does. Between

1:25:00

Ripley and Call primarily,

1:25:02

but they talk about aliens. They talk about

1:25:04

how Call is a robot, they talk about

1:25:07

how Ripley's part alien, They

1:25:09

talk about Earth, they talk about a lot of

1:25:11

stuff, religion, religion,

1:25:13

the nature of humanity and if

1:25:15

humans possess it, and Ripley says,

1:25:18

I knew you couldn't be a human You're too

1:25:20

humane. No human, no

1:25:23

human being could be that humane, which

1:25:25

is only the second most Josh windn't

1:25:27

wed any line in this, I think, second to uh,

1:25:30

I thought you were dead. I get that a lot.

1:25:33

Feel a very good line. That's pretty funny.

1:25:36

Um. I did have to laugh when

1:25:38

Ripley says something like, who

1:25:41

do I have to funk around here to get

1:25:43

off this boat? And then Ron Perlman

1:25:45

is like, well, I can get you off, maybe

1:25:48

not the boat, and I was like the ship. I mean,

1:25:50

he's an again, a despicable character,

1:25:52

and that's a gross line coming from him, but

1:25:55

it's a pretty funny line. Otherwise, anyway,

1:25:58

does it pass the back to test when Ripley has

1:26:00

to murder the terrifying body

1:26:03

horror clone of herself with a

1:26:05

flamethrower. I think it could.

1:26:07

Yeah, I think so. I think. You know, it's a tense

1:26:09

interaction, but you know, let

1:26:12

women have tension. Yeah, she says kill

1:26:15

me, and then Ripley

1:26:17

and the responses. The action is

1:26:20

the response, but is definitely

1:26:22

a conversation. It's a conversation. Yeah,

1:26:25

it's true. So it passes handily.

1:26:28

Um, as far as our

1:26:30

nipple scale goes a scale

1:26:32

of zero to five nipples based on how

1:26:34

the movie fares. Looking at it through an intersectional

1:26:37

feminist lens, um,

1:26:39

I mean power

1:26:46

in. I'll split

1:26:48

it. I'll give it a right down the middle

1:26:50

two point five. I do think there

1:26:53

is some interesting commentary

1:26:57

being made on kind of the just

1:26:59

a session of male

1:27:02

authority figures, and like

1:27:05

the fact that it's military and medical,

1:27:08

you know, because there there's a lot to criticize

1:27:10

about the way medical

1:27:12

professionals, some of them harbor

1:27:15

a lot of biases and withhold

1:27:18

medical care from a lot of marginalized

1:27:20

groups of people. So I think it's

1:27:23

like interesting that it's these like military

1:27:25

medical personnel and like all

1:27:28

you know, these industrial complexes

1:27:30

that are obsessed with

1:27:33

basically using female

1:27:36

bodies as vessels

1:27:38

to perpetuate their

1:27:41

own very destructive

1:27:44

agenda. And yeah, I think

1:27:46

there's again these interesting parallels

1:27:49

to be drawn about what's happening currently

1:27:51

in the world in terms of

1:27:54

groups of men being obsessed with

1:27:56

controlling people with uteruses

1:27:59

and denying people access to

1:28:01

bodily autonomy. So

1:28:03

I think that's all an interesting thing

1:28:05

that the movie explores. I think that as

1:28:08

far as how effectively it does that

1:28:10

that might be a little up for debate,

1:28:14

but I think it's I appreciate that the

1:28:16

movie attempts something like that.

1:28:19

I don't like how

1:28:21

weirdly horny Ripley

1:28:24

gets for her

1:28:26

children, her alien children. I

1:28:30

do appreciate that the main relationship

1:28:32

that emerges in the movie that we are rooting

1:28:35

for is between two

1:28:38

fem presenting beings. Again,

1:28:41

they're not human women, but

1:28:43

they are for all intents and purposes,

1:28:46

women, I suppose, and that

1:28:48

that's the kind of most compelling relationship

1:28:50

between characters in the entire movie. Um.

1:28:54

Yeah, So there's some pros and cons

1:28:56

of this very bizarre movie

1:29:00

that's obsessed with birth imagery.

1:29:03

I will give it too point

1:29:06

five nipples. Does that seem too high?

1:29:09

No, I think

1:29:11

I'll probably meet ei there, Okay, all right? Uh,

1:29:14

And I will give them

1:29:16

to the spider

1:29:19

that gets shot to death by

1:29:22

Ron Perlman. I'll

1:29:24

meet you at two point five. I.

1:29:26

I think that there are a lot of really admirable

1:29:29

swings in this uh, in this movie, and

1:29:31

honestly, this conversation has been so

1:29:34

enlightening and helpful in clarifying

1:29:36

some of those swings. Uh.

1:29:39

And I also, I mean, I

1:29:42

like your interpretation, Gracie, that

1:29:44

of of Ripley as God versus

1:29:47

Ripley as alien Grandma. Uh.

1:29:49

And that resolves I think

1:29:51

like a lot of the like

1:29:54

cognitive dissonance I was

1:29:56

experiencing. And I think that that's a more

1:29:58

I wish that if that was the canonical

1:30:01

intention. I wish that that was that almost they

1:30:04

hit that a little harder because I feel

1:30:06

like that's a really like cool

1:30:08

journey to track in a way that is

1:30:11

like clear and obvious. I'll

1:30:14

piggy back on what you said, Caitlin, and I like that the central

1:30:17

relationship is Ripley

1:30:19

and call I think that their connection

1:30:21

makes a lot of sense. I like their mutual

1:30:24

rejection of what they've

1:30:26

been told about who they like,

1:30:28

who they've been made to be, versus choosing

1:30:32

choose, like making a choice as an individual

1:30:34

that's also in the interest of the collective

1:30:36

at the same time, like it that's such

1:30:38

a difficult line to toe. That is like the

1:30:40

thing that I think this movie maybe does the most

1:30:42

effectively. And then

1:30:45

there's a bunch of stuff that's like hit and

1:30:47

miss that we've spent the last two

1:30:49

hours discussing, so I won't rehash. But I think

1:30:52

that two and a half feels good and admirable,

1:30:55

uh and admirable swing. Definitely a

1:30:58

movie that like, uh

1:31:01

like, If not rewards, I'm rewatching.

1:31:03

There's definitely ship you missed.

1:31:05

If it's been a long time since you've seen this movie,

1:31:07

and I think it's aged in a really interesting way,

1:31:10

and watch it with friends, don't

1:31:12

watch it, don't watch it alone. Have have a

1:31:14

good night with friends. So I'll

1:31:17

do two and a half. I'll will give one

1:31:19

to that lady that dies, I'll

1:31:22

give one to the basketball,

1:31:25

and I'll give the last point five to

1:31:29

uh ripley um.

1:31:32

I, on the other hand, think that this is a

1:31:34

four nibble movie. I'll remind

1:31:36

you that you both you both give four nipples to aliens,

1:31:39

both of you. Sounds

1:31:41

like something I would have been a couple of years

1:31:43

ago. Yeah,

1:31:47

um, But yeah, I recognize

1:31:50

that maybe a lot of what I love about this movie is

1:31:52

perhaps headcanon and is not

1:31:54

necessarily super

1:31:56

active in the movie. But I do think that a lot

1:31:58

like there's a lot of male gaze going on in

1:32:01

this movie. The direction is very very

1:32:03

male gaze, and I agree. I

1:32:05

mean, it's like it's she's being really sexy with the alien.

1:32:07

But I feel like what that moment is supposed

1:32:10

to be, and it is really sexy and Sigourney Weavers

1:32:12

keeping her eyes still and moving her head around just because

1:32:14

she looks like Sigourney Weaver and she's moving

1:32:16

in a fluid way. But um,

1:32:19

it's supposed to be her choosing

1:32:21

between her animal side and her human

1:32:23

side and choosing humanity. I

1:32:25

don't think that's the script. I think it's just on set

1:32:28

it became very sexy. Um, But

1:32:32

I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a nipple

1:32:34

at at least subverting the born

1:32:36

Sexy Yesterday trope

1:32:39

because toss it over your shoulder

1:32:42

right into the basketball hoop because

1:32:44

you know, and they're really surprised that that's a that's

1:32:46

a side effect. Um, I'm

1:32:50

gonna give, I mean a

1:32:52

nipple to call um for

1:32:54

all of the reasons. It just um

1:32:57

just I don't know. It's unown a writer and Sigourney Weaver

1:32:59

being being badasses in a movie together

1:33:01

like that does that does get? That does a lot for

1:33:03

me? Um, especially since

1:33:05

part of the reason Suggourney Weaver got cast in

1:33:07

the first place was from being very tall, and

1:33:10

everyone who was doing casting was like, see

1:33:12

this, I can see I can see as Ripley, Like that's

1:33:14

Ripley walking in the room and she like credits

1:33:16

her quote Hooker boots about it. So

1:33:18

um as a short as a short person,

1:33:21

I like that. There's also window and a writer being a badass

1:33:23

UM five three. And

1:33:26

I'm going to give a nipple to the

1:33:28

baby alien because I love the

1:33:30

baby alien so so

1:33:32

much. And the lighting of the baby alien.

1:33:35

Um, they apparently had to uh c

1:33:37

g I off the umbilical cord when it was

1:33:39

walking because it looked too much like a penis,

1:33:42

which is just like a fun little I

1:33:44

love that baby alien fact. Yeah,

1:33:47

it was like a c g I thing that had to happen. It was the

1:33:49

guy who c G I is that it's the weirdest um editing

1:33:52

he had to do. Um but which this

1:33:54

like to me relates just a tiny bit, even

1:33:57

though John didn't have anything to do with production to Josh

1:33:59

Weeden really wanting vision to have a penis

1:34:01

and having to be shown what that would look like, to be

1:34:04

told that that is incorrect. Um,

1:34:06

but that's a sidetrack. And I'm going to give

1:34:08

a nipple to the Josh Weedeney

1:34:10

dialogue because uh, you

1:34:13

know, thinking about

1:34:15

the human being aside. I love

1:34:17

dialogue like that and it is my

1:34:19

lead character, my my Ripley being

1:34:21

told I thought you were dead. I get that a lot. I'm

1:34:23

like, that's a nipple for me. That's a nipple

1:34:25

from me, dog nipples.

1:34:29

Well, Gracie, thank you so much for coming back

1:34:31

and for helping us. Yes, thank you for

1:34:33

appreciate this movie. Yeah,

1:34:36

I'm happy that you watched it. You can skip three. I

1:34:39

mean Cube. The more

1:34:41

I learned about Alien Cube,

1:34:43

the more I'm just like, I'm I don't

1:34:45

think I'll ever see the need to

1:34:47

see it. No where

1:34:50

can people follow you online?

1:34:53

Check out your stuff? Plug away

1:34:56

Um, I'm online on Instagram

1:34:58

at Gracie Gillum dr A C I E

1:35:00

G I L L A m um.

1:35:03

And right now you can watch me in

1:35:05

Super Host on shutter app. It

1:35:08

is coming up on spooky season, so good

1:35:10

time to get shutter app. And it's a good

1:35:12

movie to watch in your home and contemplate

1:35:15

the validity of safety in the domestic sphere.

1:35:18

Ha ha ha ha yeah

1:35:22

my super host on shutter hell

1:35:24

Yeah. Check it out. You can follow

1:35:27

us on Twitter and Instagram

1:35:29

at bechtel Cast. You can subscribe

1:35:31

to our Patreon a k a. Matreon

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for five dollars a month at patreon dot

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com, slash specktel Cast. It gets you to bonus

1:35:38

episodes every month, plus access

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to the entire back catalog of bonus

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episodes, which is over

1:35:45

a hundred. Now I think, yeah,

1:35:47

I think we did it. We've crossed into triple figures.

1:35:50

Wow, there's so much content

1:35:52

left to explore if you're not already

1:35:55

a matron, and

1:35:57

you can also grab our some merch

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1:36:02

Cast if you are so inclined.

1:36:04

If you have a baby alien to dress,

1:36:06

I'm pretty sure we have clothes for baby

1:36:09

alien. Also,

1:36:11

I meant it is a very size inclusive site.

1:36:14

So go there, have a good time,

1:36:16

and uh everyone, I think

1:36:18

we just got to Earth. I mean,

1:36:20

I know it's kind of a ship hole, but I'd rather

1:36:23

stay with the things. Man. Fun

1:36:29

fact like, she's apparently

1:36:31

they're they're gonna put the ship. They're gonna send

1:36:33

the ship to somewhere that's unpopulated

1:36:35

and according to xenopedia dot

1:36:38

com, that places central Africa.

1:36:40

Okay, so

1:36:43

that's

1:36:46

interesting. Oh okay,

1:36:49

well this movie is a mess. Bye

1:36:54

bye bye