0:00

On the Bell Cast, the questions asked

0:03

if movies have women in them, are

0:05

all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

0:07

or do they have individualism? The

0:10

patriarchy? Zef and best

0:12

start changing it with the beck Del Cast.

0:15

Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin

0:18

Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus, and

0:20

we talk about the portrayal of women in

0:22

movies on our podcast. Yeah, we do every

0:24

week, every freaking week. How many weeks? Now?

0:27

So many? I'm like coming into

0:29

this episode worried, how

0:31

come? Because we're in

0:34

a genre that I

0:36

hate, and so I'm skewed. I see,

0:38

we're in my least favorite genre.

0:41

I'm I'm sorry, real negat

0:43

Well, um, we're in I would

0:45

say, my favorite genre. So can

0:48

we even be friends? No? After

0:50

this? No? No, But but we should

0:52

be because this is our I mean, I think,

0:54

our our our best director

0:59

and have one very big

1:01

Jim Cameron joint that we love

1:03

and appreciate very much. Um

1:05

that being, of course Ghosts

1:08

of the Abyss. Honestly,

1:11

James Cameron. The thing with James Cameron, he

1:14

should have just been an oceanographer and saved

1:16

us all sometime I disagree because

1:18

he's directed a lot of movies that I

1:20

deeply love. What movie

1:22

is he not submerged in? Is

1:24

he submerged? Terminator? Terminator?

1:27

Two? Does a terminator not swim? I

1:29

do not believe he would short. Oh

1:33

wait, because he's a robot. Yeah, he's

1:35

one zeros. I like robots right now,

1:37

Well that you got one in the movie we're talking about today.

1:40

I know he is a man, though, and

1:43

that means this conversation did not pass

1:45

the Bechtel test. Hey wow, that

1:47

was actually a very great transition. Thank you so much

1:50

so. On the Bechtel Cast we discuss,

1:53

as I said, the portrayal of women in movies.

1:55

We use the Bectel test as a jumping

1:57

off point to initiate a larger versation

2:01

about the portrayal of women. The Becto

2:03

test being for us to female

2:06

identifying characters have to have names,

2:09

they have to speak to each other, and their conversation

2:11

cannot be about a man. Right,

2:14

Can we beta test it really quick? I have I have a

2:16

thought I'd like to express, and I think it passes

2:18

the Bechdel test. But you know, it's sort of it

2:21

gets a little murky at Hey,

2:23

Caitlin, Hey Jamie, I think the

2:25

Deadpool too is for losers.

2:28

You know what, Jamie, And I won't go I see what you're

2:30

saying, and I think this already does not

2:32

pass the Bechdel tests because Deadpool

2:34

is But I'm not talking I'm talking about the movie.

2:37

I'm not talking about the guy. Well. I mean, you can't

2:39

talk about Deadpool the movie without recognizing

2:41

that it's about Deadpool, the character who

2:44

is male identifying Deadpool two is

2:46

for losers. And I'm not going to go. Well,

2:48

Um, t J. Miller, isn't it? And he can

2:51

fuck right off, He can funk right

2:53

off, but he won't. He will

2:55

not. He never will anyway. So um,

2:57

that was not necessarily the best example of a

3:00

conversation passing the back door test example

3:02

of discourse, It sure was. I agree. Hey,

3:05

let's introduce our guests. He

3:08

is the host of the great

3:10

podcast. Yo? Is this racist? Ander?

3:13

T O? Hi? Hi,

3:15

thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. So you

3:17

brought us aliens. Wow,

3:21

I feel like it got brought to all of

3:23

us. Let's not. It

3:25

got hatched for us, got

3:28

hatched from an egg and then implanted

3:30

into our chest cavities for

3:32

business for Yeah, for capitalism

3:35

for business, business bads as this

3:37

movie. So that's cool. We have done

3:39

the movie Alien on

3:41

this podcast already with guests Eliza Skinner.

3:43

I went back and re listened to that episode. It is

3:46

one of our grosser episodes, and

3:48

that we spend almost the entire

3:50

time talking about either jizz

3:53

or jizz, blood or

3:56

vaginal flaps. Can we can

3:58

we unpack that a little bit? Why do you think just just

4:00

blood and vaginal flaps are gross? I think

4:02

that's actually like a beautiful thing. Well, is

4:04

a good point in part of the human experience? My

4:07

bad? Um? I just I guess I suppose

4:09

the language we were using was

4:12

invoking some imagery that might flaps

4:14

be considered unpleasant

4:16

flaps. Yeah, I would

4:19

like to talk about I wasn't going to talk about I didn't

4:21

have any flaps in my notes. But maybe

4:23

that's because we've just grown over the next year.

4:26

Well, that's the other thing about that episode is that

4:28

there wasn't a whole lot of discourse that we had

4:31

necessarily right. But I think this

4:33

episode is going to be different. It's going to be

4:35

so discourse heavy that are

4:38

our flaps will come on? Our

4:40

flaps will start kidding. There's

4:42

a there's a lot more direct flap

4:44

imagery in this movie than in Alien,

4:47

I believe. I think this was like, well,

4:49

I guess that's more of everything. There's

4:51

more of every every gross thing. That's

4:54

the plural. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

4:56

yeah, it's it's it's all of them.

4:59

Um. So, Andrew, what's your history

5:01

your relationship to Aliens?

5:03

Just aliens in general, not the movie? Oh good,

5:07

well, I guess I had my first encounter. Aliens

5:11

is probably a movie that I mostly

5:13

saw in pieces in

5:16

edited on TNT.

5:20

Probably did they edit out the flaps? They

5:23

must have, you

5:25

know, But I think I think the thing,

5:28

I think if you edit out any of the like

5:31

over alien vagina imagery,

5:33

you have to edit it like like it

5:36

is actually really hard to draw the line.

5:38

It's like, oh this is too much. Well

5:40

then how come the last thing wasn't too much?

5:42

And then I don't think you could have a movie, because

5:45

the whole point is Dixon Vagina's right.

5:47

I mean, the vagina monster

5:50

is a is a tale as old as time,

5:53

of course, but you

5:55

see, you can't help but look at the vagina

5:57

monsters and all these James Cameer movies and be like poorcast

6:00

from Bigelow. Wait

6:03

all these Yeah, I think this might

6:05

be the only one. There's no two the well,

6:08

both alien movies are flat

6:10

heavy. But he had nothing to do with the first

6:12

one. He didn't know. I have to go or

6:16

the third one? Right, and

6:19

that's also the most underwater one. So are

6:22

just all our narratives? No? The fourth

6:24

one is, yeah,

6:26

they swim through a big room

6:28

full of watered Winona writers. There. That's

6:31

right, Oh, you're right, it is for Yeah. I

6:33

have since seen all of the except

6:35

minus any of the Alien Versus

6:38

Predator. I

6:40

have not seen those, but those are to

6:42

be totally honest, as

6:45

far as these movies go, probably the best

6:47

ones. They're the ones that absolutely know

6:49

what they are. They do

6:51

exactly what they promise. They

6:53

do not think they're smarter than they are. I'm

6:56

deadly serious. Any of the Alien Versus Predators

6:58

are better than any of the Alien in movies or any of

7:00

the product or movies. Wow, well

7:04

you know what, I'm gonna argue with you a little bit on that one. I

7:06

have not seen any of the A B movies,

7:09

but um, I mean I really like alien

7:11

and I really like aliens and that's where it

7:13

stops from. So, Jamie, you said

7:15

that you don't like this genre. I

7:18

like this genre a lot, and I especially

7:20

like aliens. And I didn't really grow

7:22

up with this movie. I don't think it's not until somewhere

7:25

in my twenties. Yeah, yeah, same, sorry

7:27

to finish my history. Yeah no, no, that's

7:29

it. You just reminded me. It's like I watched

7:31

parts of it a lot as a kid, and then I think I must

7:33

have watched the whole thing. I don't know, hungover

7:36

in my twenties at some point. I don't know, it is

7:38

kind of a hangover movie. Yeah, And that it's

7:40

a little to twenty

7:42

minutes long, and

7:44

that Bradi Cooper and Zachal in

7:47

it carrying around a baby. I

7:49

might as well. I

7:52

mean, new is sort of baby

7:54

that they're carrying. Yeah. There were

7:56

three different points where I was like, oh that I like.

7:58

In my notes, I wrote the climax to the movie, and

8:00

for three days I was like, when is it going to Then

8:03

there's just more of vagina monsters

8:05

in the next scene, and it's like, yes, Queen,

8:08

go off, or I want to go home,

8:10

Like I just I just I don't know, do

8:12

you think it was too long, or do you think we

8:14

could have sorry, like kept on

8:16

going too long, or do you think they

8:19

just took way too much exposition

8:21

at the top, because that's where I was like the

8:23

exposition was. It's so slow.

8:26

It's very slow. There's a lot of like

8:28

and fake outs. There's like a boring scene

8:30

that is a fake out where

8:32

you're like the like the opening scene, where're

8:35

like, it's boring, and then briefly horror, and

8:37

then it was a what

8:40

why? Who cares? Who cares?

8:42

It's establishing her mindset,

8:44

the horror that she experienced. I think

8:47

it's there for a reason. It's just eighteen.

8:50

You would do that in literally under

8:52

one second. She would look at

8:54

one photograph and then we'd be like, we get

8:56

it. Yes, this movie did come

8:59

out in nineteen eighty six, which is also the year

9:01

I was born, so

9:04

much so Jamie, you

9:06

saw it for the first time Saturday Saturday

9:08

night, did not like it. But

9:11

it's like one of those things where it's like I can recognize

9:13

that this movie succeeds on a lot of

9:15

levels and also never want to see

9:17

it again. Sure, yeah, Well

9:19

should I get into the recap? Yeah?

9:22

Recap Okay, let's recap. So the

9:24

story basically picks up where Alien leaves

9:26

off, which is where I forget what happens

9:29

in the first one. At the end of Alien, the

9:31

alien has infiltrated the

9:34

ship, killed everyone. The main frame,

9:36

killed everyone on board except for Ripley.

9:39

She's the only survivor. She gets into

9:41

and Jonesy the cat queer icon I

9:45

would say eight nippled icon. Cat

9:48

facts with Caitlin. Also, hey, wait,

9:50

just real quick, I I have learned another

9:52

cat factor to what that's

9:55

not part of the bit. People have been really

9:58

upset that I only know the one cat.

10:00

So here I am proving to you

10:02

all that I know that a group

10:04

of cats is called a clouder.

10:07

That's fun rights fun d

10:11

cloud clouder. Oh that's pleasant.

10:14

How did we not know that? I don't know, but

10:16

now you know. And this is cat facts with Caitlin.

10:18

Also, a cat can jump up to six

10:21

times its own length, and

10:24

cat owners are seventeen percent more likely

10:26

to have a graduate degree, which I think is a

10:28

great transition into my

10:31

graduate degree, which I do have,

10:33

a screenwriting Masters from Boston

10:35

University. I don't like to bring it up, but the cat,

10:39

uh not at this time, not

10:41

right now, but I have in the past and I will

10:43

in the future anyway. Okay,

10:45

So the end of Alien is Ripley is the

10:47

only survivor. She gets into an escape

10:50

pod, objects the alien out

10:52

into space, and then goes into hypersleep,

10:54

which is where this movie picks up. She

10:56

has found kind of just like floating around

10:58

the universe, like, hey, who

11:01

are you? When what And she's like, oh, no, I've

11:03

been asleep for fifty seven years.

11:07

That her daughter that we didn't know she had in

11:09

the first one. I don't think. I think grew

11:11

old and passed away, which I will

11:13

say, she does react to

11:15

this. This is part of the Ripley character

11:18

that I find very interesting. She's able

11:20

to compartmentalize that devastating

11:22

fact pretty efficiently, like

11:25

which I mean, we'll get into the more when we

11:27

discussed the character in depth. But she

11:30

whip saws trauma around a lot

11:32

in these movies because a lot of terrible ship

11:34

happens to her, like

11:37

incessantly. Nothing good ever

11:39

happens to her ever once she's

11:41

cursed. But I was

11:43

like, amazing that, Like, you do see her react

11:46

to it. It's not like the movie ignores it, but then

11:48

it kind of In the next scene, she's like at a meeting,

11:50

I was like, whoa, Yes, she's like

11:53

having bedridden for years,

11:56

she did

11:58

have she

12:01

had a dead daughter. Yes. In the

12:03

next scene, she's like giving a deposition

12:05

of sorts about this alien attack,

12:08

basically recapping and doing

12:10

a Ripley's famous recap of the

12:13

first Believe it or Not recap right,

12:17

believe that's the big No

12:19

one believes her because they're not. They're

12:21

they're mad that she destroyed their expensive

12:24

ship and they demote her. She

12:27

did. They made a big deal about

12:29

how that ship was a total ship hole in

12:31

the first who cares? And also

12:34

what company fifty years later would be like, We're

12:36

really like, that's if some if now someone

12:38

was like that thing that happened in the late sixties

12:40

were still extremely salty

12:43

about, like when you crash my car. Fifty years

12:46

when I quit my last day job, I made sure to

12:48

walk away with an extremely powerful fan

12:50

that I'd stolen from my office from a

12:52

set where I'm

12:55

going to make fan out of you carrying a large fan

12:57

out of a fan are a

13:00

fan of fan? But then also, wow, I'm

13:03

holding a fan.

13:06

I'm a big I'm a big I'm a fan of fan, I'm

13:08

a fan of the fan, so it's really a triple

13:10

fan kind of thing. Yeah, I'm personally a

13:12

fan of fan fan art. So

13:16

nanis anyway

13:19

tidy coming out of yours.

13:22

So they Ripley's believe it or not. They

13:25

do not believe it. They do not until they

13:28

learn of an alien attack

13:30

on the same planet that they

13:32

had like honed in on the beacon in the first movie

13:34

and found the alien ship and

13:36

all of that. Since then, people have

13:39

been colonizing it and trying to like terraform

13:41

it and all this stuff. And she's like, we'll

13:43

check out that planet, and they're like, we have, and nothing's

13:45

there except there is something there. That ship

13:48

is still there and the

13:50

alien there's

13:56

also in that whole meeting scene because we're

13:58

supposed to be in the distant future

14:01

at this point, because the because alien

14:03

is in the distant future, and then Aliens

14:06

is fifty seven years after the distant

14:08

future, but everyone still has the same

14:10

terrible haircut from and

14:13

using computers from that era as well.

14:15

They're using big fat, thick computers.

14:18

Yeah. Look, I don't know why you're

14:20

criticizing this perfect movie. All right, anyway,

14:23

I have a double collar situation

14:25

going on, Like I don't think he actually does, but his vibe

14:27

feels like he does. Like

14:30

two shirts. He feels like two shirts, two shirts.

14:32

You good name? Yeah,

14:34

a good white rapper names.

14:38

Also Bill Paxson's in this movie.

14:41

Yes, I'm almost almost there. He's

14:43

not doing a good job. So the company

14:45

and all these people don't believe her and her

14:47

alien attack story until these aliens

14:49

attack the people on this planet. So

14:51

Ripley is called in to help, and she eventually

14:54

agrees and she's like fine, and

14:56

then all these marines are also the

14:59

kind of black her. They're like, you're a

15:01

dock worker, but you can go all the way

15:03

from being a dock worker to like fifth

15:05

in charge of like a shitty

15:07

shitty ship. Right. They basically give her

15:10

title back, which they took away for

15:13

not believing the thing that happened to her. Um,

15:16

they this movie starts with someone not

15:18

believing what a woman says in spite of ample evidence.

15:20

Right now, timely m hm. So

15:23

this whole crew of marines joined

15:25

her on this sort of like recon rescue

15:28

mission. So there's Gorman, he's like the

15:30

commanding officer type of dude. Burke

15:33

is Paul Riser, the guy who like speaks

15:35

on behalf of the company. Yeah, he's Mr

15:37

Bear's. Yeah, there's Bill Paxton

15:39

playing Hudson. There's a Charter named Drake. There's

15:42

Hicks, there's a Poem, there's Frost, There's Bishop,

15:44

he's the artificial person. Those are the dudes

15:46

of the women. There's Vesquez, Pharaoh

15:49

and Dietrich and then I think I'm probably leaving

15:51

some people out, but those are kind of the main players. I

15:53

feel like they take they do take pains to kind

15:56

of integrate the military,

15:58

Like there's women and

16:01

they are doing all of the available

16:03

jobs, like Akas is the big guns.

16:06

Yes, yeah, well oh yeah, well we'll talk about

16:08

this, but yeah, dare you Okay.

16:12

So they arrive on the planet, they scope

16:14

the place out. They find Newt,

16:16

who is like the sole survivor

16:19

of the alien attack on this colony

16:21

of somewhere around a hundred or more people.

16:24

Um, Newt is an eleven year old girl. She's

16:26

dirty, she's dirty, and Riley

16:29

is like, I used to have an eleven year old girl,

16:31

and this one's here now, so

16:34

I'm going to treat her like she's my new daughter.

16:37

Adorable. It's cute,

16:41

adorable. I love it. Just grimy,

16:44

weird acting little child. Okay.

16:46

So then the crew goes in. They find the

16:49

big alien nest. Some aliens

16:51

attack them, a few people die. They

16:53

try to leave the planet, but an alien has

16:55

gotten into their like spacecraft and kills

16:58

all the flight crew and then the space crashes

17:01

and they can't leave the planet now,

17:03

so they're stuck. They go back inside the

17:05

facility. They set up some gun

17:07

traps. Bishops like, hey, I'm gonna

17:09

go find another ship and like do a manual

17:12

override and

17:16

saying, oh gosh. So the

17:18

aliens come back. They're like closing in on them.

17:20

Burke is like I'm a capitalist, and everyone's

17:23

like you motherfucker. Oh,

17:25

And he tries to have Ripley and New impregnated

17:28

to get past quarantine. It's a whole thing.

17:30

It doesn't work, and then it gets

17:32

captured. So Ripley's like, I gotta go

17:34

back in for she's still alive, and she is like

17:37

the planets about to fall apart, planets covered

17:39

and flap, it's just very flapping.

17:41

It's flat planet. So

17:44

yeah, Ripley like she ties some guns

17:46

together. She goes in and gets newt

17:48

and then she stumbles across the Queen

17:50

Alien and her like whole nest

17:53

of eggs and she's like, oh,

17:55

ship and then they managed to

17:57

escape, but the queen gets on the ship and

17:59

then there's this big battle at the end and Ripley

18:02

puts her forklift suit on and

18:04

kills the queen being delivers a line

18:07

and it's like God, away from her, you bitch,

18:10

and then slap clap and

18:13

we clap, and then the flap

18:16

when the flaps are squirting in a man is

18:18

torn in half, but he's fine, and

18:22

and then the little kid is released

18:24

and she delivers a line and

18:27

then it ends. That's

18:29

it. So that's the story of Aliens.

18:35

I just call Alien too. Yeah, well

18:38

we've been so easy. It's I feel like this is so confusing.

18:40

Yeah, and then the next one they call Alien

18:43

three three, but it's like, cue,

18:46

what so stupid? And

18:49

now when they sell all of the movies together they

18:51

call it a quadrilogy, which

18:53

is like, I just want to say, it's tetralogy

18:57

or would be if it's four, oh,

19:00

like tetrahedron for I

19:03

think, don't correct me. Quatrilogy

19:07

sound yes, it sounds

19:10

okay. I have a lot of thoughts on

19:12

this movie because, unlike

19:15

most action movies of this era

19:17

and then all of the ones to date, I

19:20

think it does a fairly good

19:23

job portraying not just

19:25

one female character, but a at

19:27

least sizeable bullish cast of

19:30

them. Yes, between Ripley

19:32

and Vasquez, which

19:34

there's plenty to talk about with

19:37

that character. Um,

19:39

But then also Newt. I think in

19:41

a lot of movies like this, a small

19:44

child, especially a female one, would

19:46

be treated like a huge burden and be the

19:48

source of a lot of like obstacles

19:51

and like we have to rescue you

19:53

and protect you the whole time. But like new

19:55

it's actually doing a lot to sort of contribute to.

19:58

Well, yeah, there's a few different moments where her knowledge

20:00

is like key to moving the plat forward, Like when

20:03

they go into the too be

20:05

things where you grew up and she knows

20:07

how to navigate them, And yeah, you

20:10

need a greasy tunnel child to fight greasy

20:13

rat, the greasy bugs. She's a she's

20:15

a street rat, and they

20:17

need that. They need that, and just

20:20

a bunch of marines can solve it. But no, you

20:22

need just fucking

20:25

filthy child. Well, there's

20:28

there, we're outsourcing it. We've got a third

20:30

party client. There's a dirty kid

20:32

we found. There's a great conversation

20:34

between Bill Paxson's character and Ripley

20:37

where Bill Patson's like, we won't let seen

20:40

out here and Ripley's like, this

20:43

little girl lasted longer than that without any

20:45

weapons or training, and he's like, let's

20:47

put her in charge then, and it's like, honestly,

20:50

let's like, okay, let's not take

20:53

it to the place where we're putting a dirty child in charge

20:55

of the ship. Lastly, I think that would

20:57

be very progressive. And I

20:59

want to see that movie. It's

21:02

called Jimmy Neutron. The kids are in charge

21:04

and it's a nightmare. I

21:07

think, Oh, here's as a retroctor

21:09

theory about Jimmy Neutron. It was a

21:11

really fun movie designed to keep kids in their place

21:14

and they're like, you need parents, see or

21:17

you'll end up like Jimmy Neutron.

21:20

Yeah, usaid have a crush

21:22

and the one who peed in the shower. Anyways,

21:25

Yeah, the character of new there's also

21:28

a few different moments, like the

21:30

scenes between her and Ripley are generally

21:32

very nice. Um and

21:34

aren't too heavy handed

21:36

with like that I am your mommy now, which

21:39

I feel like a less good

21:41

movie would have really played those moments

21:44

up to be like obnoxious

21:46

kind of this movie doesn't. And then there's also

21:49

that kind of like fun little subversion where Ripley

21:52

patronizes New a little bit

21:54

by being like, your doll would be brave,

21:56

and she's like, it's a doll's

21:59

plastic. It's not feel shit,

22:02

Sigourney Weaver, don't patronize

22:04

me. And then Sigourney Weaver apologize

22:07

this, and I was like, I'm sorry, You're right, that was weird.

22:09

I was like, Wow, what a pleasant discussion this

22:12

was. It would be fine if that little

22:14

girl was smoking a cigarette that entire

22:16

movie, like, it would not be out

22:18

of place if she was just like, you don't know the ship I've

22:20

seen lady. She is wise beyond her

22:22

years, and the fact that she's the only survivor

22:25

of what seems like mostly adults

22:27

is like, I think, pretty remarkable. She's

22:29

a slippery little tunnel kid. Don't

22:32

funk with this little sh I

22:34

wasn't paying close enough attention because I got real bored

22:36

in the first acts. It's she

22:39

the kid from the family that

22:41

finds that that gets sent Okay, so right,

22:43

Yeah, So I'm honestly I'm pretty impressed

22:46

with the movie's depiction of

22:48

that child character because

22:50

I think a lot of movies will be like, oh, well, here's

22:52

this extra burden that you have to deal

22:54

with that like really just has to be dragged

22:57

along. But in this movie, she's like given

22:59

a purpose and like actually contributes to the

23:01

progression of the plot at some points,

23:03

and like the connection she makes with Ripley

23:06

makes a lot of sense for both of them.

23:08

Uh and um, like you said it, it's

23:11

like not too heavy handed. I think the movie shows a lot

23:13

of restraint in that relationship, which I

23:15

appreciate. Yeah, like a lesser movie would

23:17

have had like a lot of embraces

23:19

and music swelling where this

23:21

movie actra and that does happen.

23:23

In Alien four, we're Succourinea. We were talking

23:26

to Winona writer and basically it's like

23:28

you're my daughter now, and

23:30

then they hug and and and smooch and

23:33

are pretty much it's like on that vector

23:35

of like, Okay, I gotta say

23:37

that's also a bad movie. Well

23:40

that's the one where she makes that backwards basketball

23:42

shot. Though it makes it for real and everyone

23:44

freaks out and they can't cut it

23:46

in time before I think it's Ron Perlman is

23:49

like literally you can see him saying holy shit

23:51

in the back of the frame because she was supposed

23:53

just toss a basketball over her head and then there

23:55

was supposed to cut it, but it actually goes in the basket.

23:58

Yeah, from like the three point line. It's hilarious.

24:01

She's amazing. Man. There's

24:04

not a lot of movies in general, regardless of

24:06

the genre, that treats like you know,

24:08

in a movie where the cast is largely adults, child

24:11

characters are not usually treated with any

24:13

respect or agencies. So for younger kids

24:15

who saw this movie, I'm sure that was like cool.

24:17

Yeah, wait, how young It would

24:19

be real fucked up to show this to any kids. Don't

24:22

show this to your kids.

24:26

That's slippery. Little tunnel kid. If

24:29

I died, here's

24:31

your here's your bucket of old motor oil,

24:34

here's a shovel, go have fun in the backyard.

24:37

They said, Okay, but the evolution because Alien

24:40

is alien, like Sigourney Weaver is

24:42

the star of Alien because of

24:44

the final girl tropes of

24:47

horror movies. But now she gets

24:49

in an action movie, and they do a good

24:51

job of like not And I

24:53

guess she's not very final girly in

24:56

Alien because it's it's just that narrative

24:58

structure. But then otherwise it's very

25:00

like it doesn't follow a lot of the tropes

25:03

that the final girl that the

25:05

movie movies who do have like a final girl trope

25:07

do because it's like it's all like she survived

25:09

because she's the virgin. Yeah, so it doesn't

25:12

adhere to a lot of those the

25:14

whiff of that, Yeah, I think

25:16

like on paper it would look more similar than

25:18

actually what it actually is because

25:20

she, I mean an alien to she has like so

25:23

much like college and age, Like how you're just

25:25

gonna you're insisting on calling an alien to alien?

25:28

Oh and and oh no, I was calling it an

25:30

alien sorry t o O in

25:32

Alien the first one, she's

25:36

Yeah, she is kind of like I didn't even thought of that. She

25:38

is kind of like a final female because

25:40

it's a horror movie. It's a slasher movie,

25:43

yeah, just set in a garbage space.

25:45

But it's like the twist there is that she actually

25:48

has skills and abilities and

25:50

that's why she survives, or a

25:52

big part of why she survives, right, and then

25:54

that carries over into Aliens

25:57

where she isn't given a whole lot

25:59

to do in the first I would say maybe hour

26:01

of the movie, because she's really just called in as

26:03

a sort of consultant because

26:06

they recognize, oh wait, actually you have

26:08

gone through this. Um. So I think that was at least

26:10

cool that, Like in a lot of times, if there's a

26:12

movie where like an expert needs to be called in,

26:15

it's a man. So the fact that like she

26:17

is called onto the scene because of

26:19

her expertise in her experience and

26:22

also given a role of like authority

26:24

and power because I think she resumes

26:26

her position is is it lieutenant

26:29

or something like? I think they do

26:31

that shitty action movie thing

26:34

where they have the scene where

26:37

Sigourney Weaver she has

26:39

to prove her abilities and all the guys

26:41

have like unchanged their draws. They're like, well, the

26:44

girl can do a thing like

26:46

that. My my least favorite thing

26:48

that happens in actually movie superhero movies in

26:51

a lot of different genres of like we

26:53

see the main female character

26:55

demonstrate even a monica

27:00

with something like robotics or

27:02

like whatever, and they should not be

27:04

shocked because they know, like that was

27:06

like part of her job. But

27:08

they're like, oh my freaking god,

27:11

this chick in a robot

27:14

suit. Everyone's a half mass.

27:16

But they're also like, wow, she can do it. I

27:18

guess we'd better like give her an entry level job,

27:20

you know, And I okay, So

27:23

that is a bad tripe. I didn't

27:25

bother me so much in this movie as

27:27

it does in other movies, because one usually

27:30

when that happens, usually when that female character

27:32

like has to prove herself for like, as we

27:34

always talk about that McSweeney's article

27:36

where she's like, I'm the token female and this action

27:39

Blackbuster and I usually

27:42

when that happens, the female character is

27:45

sexualized in some way or like what

27:47

she's doing is presented as like this very sexy

27:50

thing, but also like, look how competent

27:52

she is, but she's also extremely sexy while

27:54

doing it. And in this movie, it's her like

27:57

clamoring into a forklift

28:00

basically and then like lifting

28:02

up a thing, and they're like and

28:04

yeah, the guys are like t he he Wow, I

28:06

didn't expect she could do that. Yeah,

28:09

I don't know. It just it didn't bother me as much as it does

28:11

another It's not the worst example

28:13

of it. When I do, I always do want to make sure

28:15

that I point that out because in that

28:18

scene, I think that the

28:20

guys are supposed to sort of represent the audience

28:22

to an extent of like, Wow, look, she really

28:24

can do it. You can trust this character moving

28:27

forward, you know, like just reassuring

28:29

the audience that she is competent, which

28:32

isn't necessarily a thing that you'd have to happen given

28:34

what we know about this character. Sure, and she's

28:37

from the past, so that's true.

28:39

She's like a hundred and eighty to them. She's

28:42

their grandma. There's not enough like unfrozen

28:45

caveman jokes in that, like

28:47

like there's a lot of opportunities for her to like so

28:49

what do you what music do you guys listen to it? They're like,

28:51

what what is this?

28:54

Yeah, that's a good point. Those are the jokes of the Alien

28:56

franchise. We need, Yeah, we gotta, we gotta

28:59

make a power sheet of some unfrozen Sigourney.

29:01

We should. Yeah, when's

29:03

like the comedy heist alien movie

29:06

coming out, I want to see that credits

29:11

and robot parts. But

29:15

in that scene, whenever the guys were

29:17

like whoa I couldn't believe she

29:19

could operate a forklift. That

29:22

almost certainly would not have happened

29:24

if she were a man. They would not have had

29:27

that reaction. And I don't think that

29:29

there would have been such like a narrative dragon

29:31

in the first act of the movie of if. I

29:34

mean, let's just go there.

29:36

If if, like there was a male character

29:38

who was frozen in the past who came back, I feel

29:40

like it would be a more likely narrative

29:43

choice for this era to you

29:45

know, like treat him as a returning hero

29:48

and just be like, hey, you're probably

29:50

lying and you're probably traumatized

29:52

because of what happened with your kid, you know where

29:54

they assume and and part of the

29:56

reason that she's kind of discredited in that first

29:59

scene is because it's like, well, you've been through

30:01

a lot, and we don't really believe

30:04

what you're saying. Basically, it's

30:06

like she's hysterical, is the h

30:09

and that's what they Yeah, that's what they say. They say something

30:11

like I don't remember the exact quote, but they suspend

30:14

her license because of it. They remove

30:16

all of her credentials, which is

30:18

a very frustrating scene to watch because

30:20

it's basically her talking to a room

30:22

full of mostly men and being like, here's this horrible thing

30:25

that happened to me, and they're like, but I don't

30:27

believe you, and it's kind

30:29

of your fault when you think, yeah, is

30:32

her fault, right, and then she gets very angry

30:35

for not being believed as one

30:37

would and then they're like, oh, actually

30:39

it seems like you're crazy, so bye.

30:42

Right. It's very frustrating. Yes, but

30:45

that's not like the movie doing a bad job. It's just the

30:47

being by a corporation exactly.

30:50

This movie is anti corporation.

30:53

It is which if you look at movies that

30:55

came out, and I mean this is like Pete

30:57

Reagan kind of unusual for I

30:59

mean where I said it before I say it again.

31:01

Ghostbusters is the most pro corporation

31:04

movie of all fucking time. And it is like

31:06

the same. Yeah, it's like they're just like a fucking start

31:09

up, their startup bros, start up gros

31:11

who get a bad loan. Yeah,

31:14

those guys they're bad and they hate the e p as

31:17

is the worst startup of all time. That's

31:19

true. I genuinely prefer

31:22

the new Ghostbusters because I'm

31:24

just like, it's just I hate it turns out I hate

31:26

anything made before, like everything

31:30

is so slow. Thankfully Jimmy

31:32

Netron came on, so

31:35

it qualifies to be your new favorite. So

31:38

in a lot of action movies where the protagonist

31:41

is a woman, I feel like a lot

31:43

of them still don't do a very good

31:46

job because they don't spend that much time

31:48

developing that female protagonist,

31:51

or they're just like sort of the vehicle to propel

31:53

this story but aren't given that much

31:55

characterization. I'm thinking of movies

31:58

like Laura Kraft tomb Raader and

32:00

we did an episode on or

32:02

in movies where like there's

32:04

like a female action star among

32:07

other characters, like Black Widow in

32:09

like the Avengers Marvel Universe

32:11

had a question about that um that my

32:13

friend who watched Avengers with brought

32:15

this up. Well, no, okay, this is stealing this

32:18

question from Todd Levin, but it is, you

32:20

know relevant, we're ever going to get away

32:22

from the like Avengers part where they

32:25

can only fight other women in

32:27

a big battle scene. It's

32:29

like, who brought this up? Oh, it was um Ify

32:32

on our Black Panther episode where

32:34

that yeah, that is that is a huge trope where

32:36

if there's a big battle scene where a group of people

32:38

are fighting each other and there are like

32:41

women on either side there. It's like they always

32:43

have women. Spond movies

32:45

always do that. Fast and Furious movies

32:47

always do like they have to bring in women

32:50

on the not they have to, they should.

32:52

I guess you can have criminal women, it's great, um,

32:55

but we can do anything. They specifically

32:58

clearly cast the men on

33:00

the other to literally be the equal

33:03

or the foil for the woman only.

33:05

And I think in like this is who

33:07

you get to beat up. And there's a few examples

33:09

where women are I mean, I thought of Killed Bill

33:12

right away, where the main female action protucitist

33:14

is fighting men. But the offset of that is that character

33:17

is sexualized pretty intensely

33:19

throughout that entire movie. So I

33:21

don't know, I can't think of or I guess

33:23

maybe it's it's and you can have female

33:26

like heroes beating up like

33:28

faceless dudes. But and I

33:30

guess I'm about to answer my own question, which is like,

33:32

you can't have like Captain America,

33:34

like beating up the poor thanos

33:38

because that is a bad look. I

33:40

guess hits a lady.

33:43

My instinct is not good. Sure,

33:45

yeah, but woman's been

33:48

killing people and blah blah blah. You know that's

33:50

the argument. It's sexist not

33:52

to beat her ass you know what I'm saying, Right,

33:54

that's like, that's an interesting I bet that there's stuff

33:56

written on that too. I mean, I think it depends

33:58

on the kind of character. Like obviously

34:01

Captain America can't hit any

34:03

woman he wants. Yeah, that's

34:05

bad, right of course, But

34:08

it's like it's such a start.

34:10

You're just like you knew when

34:12

there was like a bad fo woman

34:15

that she would have to fight. Well in terms

34:18

of villain parity, well, but if

34:20

we if we go into like Disney

34:22

lore, I think that there's some examples of male

34:24

heroes killing female villains.

34:27

Oh little Mermaid,

34:30

Little Mermaid, also sleeping Beauty.

34:32

Um, he slays the dragon

34:35

who is maleficent. I think that

34:37

there are some examples of that. But

34:40

yeah, it's always that's an interesting Yeah.

34:42

I mean, obviously we don't you know, violence

34:44

against women is bad, but

34:47

they're definitely that trope exists of like

34:49

if there's a bad woman, only a

34:51

woman on the good side can fight her. Although

34:54

I thought what you were where you were going, and that's why

34:56

I brought up the like black Panther discussion

34:59

is like to Challa's army

35:01

is all women. You see them

35:04

fighting then, so it's not like they're yeah

35:06

so yeah, I mean I like seeing

35:08

that. I would watch women beating

35:10

men's asses.

35:12

That's the only time it was real gross.

35:15

In a recent movie that I remember was I

35:17

think john Wick two where Keanu Reeves

35:20

like just beats up Ruby Rose and

35:22

it's like, this is fucking terrible.

35:25

No, it's really unpleasant. I

35:27

didn't see John Wick or John Wick to John

35:31

Wicks, but he just beats up Ruby

35:33

Rose and she is a teeny tiny, skinny

35:35

lady and like whatever. Of course it doesn't

35:37

really matter, but the optics of it are

35:40

so fucked up that I'm just like,

35:43

why would you agree to I don't know where I land

35:45

on. That's like, yeah, that just see that's

35:48

a murky area because you want to have parody

35:50

in every and everything,

35:52

right, but also what it because

35:55

media is so like effective, like if

35:57

you if you're a teenage boy and you see that, you

36:00

use that to justify bad behavior. I don't know. I

36:02

don't think we have an audience and we probably never will

36:04

have an audience. That's sophisticated enough.

36:07

It's like it's like having the N

36:09

word and huck fan. Everyone's like, oh,

36:11

you know, this is a good like teachable moment,

36:13

and like, yeah, it's also a moment for a bunch of white

36:16

fourteen year old to yell the N word. To

36:19

use it is permission to do something that wasn't

36:21

the intent, or maybe it was the intent, who

36:23

knows. Anyway,

36:28

it's quite all right, no, no, no, I I think that that's

36:30

like an interesting Well, if

36:32

you're listening, we would love to hear your thoughts

36:34

or if there's any like pieces or anything

36:36

that's been written on this that you could direct you

36:38

to share, please, And if you're not listening,

36:41

then especially if you're not listening, that's

36:45

a yeah, I'm in the fence about it. It's one

36:47

of those that's like it's easy. Yeah,

36:49

you kind of you feel like you have an

36:51

idea of it in theory, but almost every time

36:53

you see in practice you're like nope, I think

36:56

yeah, it's like I want to say, as

36:58

of right now, I want to be like, hey,

37:01

no that you know, there can be parody in

37:03

fight scenes, but I also can so

37:06

easily see the wrong

37:08

type of person seeing that and using it as

37:10

an excuse of like, well, this must be

37:12

okay to do to anyone I want, because

37:14

people who see movies are stupid. Excuse

37:17

me especially well,

37:21

because I mean, feminism is all about

37:23

equality among the genders

37:26

and like women being equal to

37:28

men. So in theory you

37:31

could be like, well, yeah, like if men

37:33

and women are equal, then women

37:35

can be beat up by men and it'll be fine.

37:38

But I think too soon, too

37:40

soon, too soon, And that's also

37:42

just so weird having your cake and eating

37:45

it too, of like the patriarchy has had the cake

37:47

and now eating it too means that you can hit us

37:49

on screen now, right because

37:51

women have been the victim of so much

37:54

violence at the hand of men.

37:57

Yeah, we're not anywhere near. There should

37:59

be a solid only five years of just when

38:01

kicking men's asses in movies,

38:04

and then we can bring this question up, yes,

38:06

right now, and maybe maybe too soon. Not

38:09

impossible, but too soon, I think. So all

38:11

that discussion, yeah, I agree, And

38:14

to conclude, the original point

38:16

I was making is that like the female

38:19

characters in action movies, if they are participating

38:21

in the action, they're usually not characterized

38:23

very well. They're underdeveloped. We don't

38:26

know much about them. Yeah, they just don't

38:28

have any real traits beyond being

38:30

kind of like badass. Whereas

38:32

with Ripley, I think a pretty

38:35

I mean a lot of characterization goes into

38:37

her. We know that she's very smart, she's

38:40

very capable, she's highly rational, um,

38:42

but she also has like a nurturing side with where

38:45

we see with Newt, and I think

38:47

she's a much more developed in multidimensional

38:50

character than we are used to seeing, especially

38:53

in women characters in action

38:55

movies. I think it's also like a very of the

38:57

moment at that time statement,

39:00

like a female character being a very

39:02

capable mother figure

39:05

at least, and also being very

39:07

good and very capable and self sustaining at her

39:09

job, because at this time it was still relatively

39:12

new for women to be in

39:15

the workplace and also be viewed as,

39:17

you know, able to be a good mother. Right.

39:20

Oh man. I feel like when this came out like the

39:22

same way any time anything happens in pop

39:24

culture now, like right wing people are

39:26

like, well, this is actually like a conservative

39:29

movie. You can just see like all the

39:31

fucking like Daily Mail, like this is actually about

39:33

Margaret Thatcher, and like this

39:35

is you know this is really about how conservative

39:38

women can do everything. Doesn't

39:40

just feel like that definitely happens.

39:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:45

I kind of hate when movie they're co opted for

39:47

a bizarro cause, like, yeah, it's

39:49

it ruins it, but they I think that

39:51

it just means that this movie is a well written

39:54

movie too, which by

39:56

and large, James Cameron movies do

39:59

pretty well. Uh, in in its treatment

40:01

of female characters, weren't good. Oh, I don't know Titan,

40:04

I've ever heard of it. Some great,

40:06

like almost all great female characters, and

40:09

in The Terminator at least the first

40:11

two movies, I don't I'm not super familiar with

40:13

the ones after that. But um, Sarah

40:15

Connor is a huge

40:17

badass, and I know, like his movies have

40:19

been criticized, his treatment of women has been criticized

40:22

to some degree. He's also come out and said

40:24

pretty stupid things in recent years,

40:26

Like he had a quote about Wonder Woman

40:29

which was kind of dumb, where he's basically like being very

40:31

self congratulatory, was like, well, look at how

40:33

I treat my women in my movies. I'm

40:35

done like that, And it's just like you're

40:37

missing the point. Yeah, at the end

40:39

of the day, he is uh, straight white

40:41

man born before and

40:44

therefore is wrong about

40:47

most things. But it's also like

40:49

dog, keep your mouth shot, and you can still be like

40:51

actions Paul Feig, like you just

40:54

be quiet, like everyone

40:56

will grudgingly be like, ah, well, at least

40:58

the movies are more or less on point if

41:00

you just fucking shut your mouth when people ask

41:03

you about the state of feminism, Yeah,

41:05

why say anything? It would

41:07

Yeah, it would have been so easy to just be like seems

41:10

pretty good. Liked the movie,

41:13

liked them that I needed to say, super easy,

41:15

jam What are you doing? Do you all ever call him

41:17

jam Cam? Jack? No?

41:19

I love that. That sounds like a good reality shows throwing

41:22

it out there, Cam

41:25

James Cameron prank show Jack.

41:28

Well, so, Jamie, you mentioned Titanic,

41:31

and I think this serves as a transition

41:33

into my next talking point

41:36

because Vasquez, the character

41:38

in Aliens, is in Titanic

41:41

as the Irish Mummy. Oh my

41:43

God her, which means which

41:45

is a good transition into I didn't notice

41:47

that because in Titanic she

41:50

is white. She is as a person,

41:53

she is white. Vasquez,

41:56

who is a Latina character. The

41:59

actor is Janette Goldstein,

42:01

who is she is

42:04

Jewish, Jewish. She is of Russian's,

42:06

Moroccan and Brazilian. She's

42:09

Jewish from Beverly Hill, but she's a white

42:11

lady. She's Jewish from a

42:15

can say. I found a little

42:18

excerpt that says that Goldstein was

42:20

outfitted with dark contact lenses

42:22

to hide her blue eyes, and even covered

42:24

in full face and body makeup to

42:27

cover up her white skin. She

42:29

is literally in brown face. There's

42:32

poll quotes from her talking about at

42:34

the time complaining about

42:36

how the makeup made it hard for her to do

42:38

the part. But because she's like sweaty and wet

42:40

the whole time, maybe you should

42:42

have just cast a Latina actress

42:45

in that role and you wouldn't have had to do

42:47

that. Yeah,

42:51

that's troubling. Yeah, it's

42:53

just I mean, and I guess

42:55

I don't know the state of

42:58

brown face in movie is in

43:01

specifically, I have

43:04

to imagine if you know, is

43:06

on the I don't know. I mean, I

43:08

genuinely don't know. But it's

43:10

obviously unacceptable and I

43:13

don't understand. Yeah, I just don't understand. Yeah,

43:16

it's kind of a bummer all around, where you're like, why

43:19

he is so unnecessary? It's

43:22

such a weird choice. I think

43:25

it's because she she's a pretty beloved

43:27

character, and it would have been

43:29

greater. It is great to have a

43:31

woman of color character be such a

43:33

beloved character, but the fact that the actress

43:36

playing that character is not actually a woman

43:38

of color just feels like a hollow victory.

43:40

Right. But there are a few things I

43:42

do want to say about this character that

43:45

I think are worth noting, aside

43:47

from setting aside that

43:50

actresses in brown face, and

43:53

if there's a silver lining,

43:55

it's not played for laughs at all. I

43:57

mean, they even attempt to make like a like

44:00

an anti Latino a joke about illegal

44:02

immigrants, and she tells him to go fuck himself

44:04

basically, which makes it all the more baffling

44:06

that they didn't just hire the right actor

44:09

for Bartley. It just doesn't. Yeah, yeah, because

44:11

the character is treated with respect pretty

44:13

consistently, and it's like proves herself

44:15

again and again, and he's a well

44:17

written character. There's nothing wrong with the character.

44:19

It's all the execution that's wrong. Right,

44:22

Because so Vasquez

44:24

is I think it's interesting that we see on the

44:26

screen a fairly mask presenting

44:30

woman. You don't see a lot of representation

44:32

of that on screen in like mainstream

44:35

Hollywood movies, she's a spaceman

44:37

unless yeah, I mean unless it's like that

44:39

type of character is the butt of a joke, which

44:42

there's a brief moment where Bill Paxton

44:45

says something like fascas,

44:47

have you've been mistaken for a man? And she

44:49

comes back with no, have you and

44:51

then she slaps high five

44:54

and goes off, Yeah

44:56

got me, God, I got packed

44:59

at jam Cam. Aside

45:02

from that, though, like her sort of mask

45:05

presentation isn't like the butt of a joke,

45:07

and by and large she's very respected and seen as

45:09

an equal among her male colleague.

45:12

That's accomplished very quickly, Like

45:14

in that scene Paxiston comes

45:16

out or with that she shuts him down, and

45:19

then her other friend is sort

45:21

of like, yeah, that's good, as you rule,

45:23

and then she slaps him in the face and I was

45:25

like, whoa, She's coming in hot

45:28

in every regard it was exciting. Well,

45:30

she just woke up. She

45:32

was also doing she's doing a pull up. Someone

45:35

does another pull up. Someone's

45:38

pretty good scene. Yeah,

45:41

I was like, what a space marine. Holy sh

45:43

it. So through the rest of the movie

45:46

she is one of the people who survives pretty

45:48

close to the very end. Oftentimes

45:50

she is like leading the way. If they're like

45:52

going into a new area that they're unfamiliar with,

45:55

She's like going in first, holding the

45:57

biggest gun. She's charge,

45:59

Like who's in charge on the ship? Like, who is the

46:01

person who's in charge? Well, it's the gormless

46:04

new guy is technically in charge,

46:07

and then the older black dude. And then

46:10

yeah, opone dies pretty quickly,

46:12

so he was like sort of the

46:14

highest ranking. So Gorman is like

46:16

delivering orders from behind the scenes. Oppone

46:19

dies, So then the next in command

46:21

ends up being Hicks at some point. The

46:23

reason I ask is I don't know how to

46:25

at the loftest rule of factors into this movie.

46:28

I think it might not succeed in this movie

46:30

because I would say Ripley is ultimately the woman

46:32

most in charge and she has the most hair.

46:34

Yeah she is not, but in Alien three

46:37

she shaves her head and she does become

46:40

the baldest woman in charge. So

46:42

Alien three passes the longest games,

46:44

the franchise passes this

46:47

maybe specific movie, and she doesn't have

46:49

a lot of hair. I mean, you could argue that the Alien

46:52

queen is bald,

46:53

that she's

46:56

all flaps, hairless flaps. But

46:58

she in charge, which is an unfair press, is in

47:00

charge of her alien, of

47:02

her organized family. It was really

47:05

an empowering movie. The flaps would have hair.

47:07

Yeah, you're right, don't

47:10

wax my flaps. That's what my shirt

47:14

in any case, don't try about me a

47:18

little flat

47:22

Vasquez though, Yeah, I mean she like

47:24

the men are never like, oh, we have to protect

47:27

her. She might be one of the crazier ones.

47:29

Yeah, she's kind of unhinged, right

47:32

in a way that you would normally see like a male

47:34

character like Yippy caying around

47:37

a little bit. Right. If anyone has rode rage

47:39

on that crew, it's maybe her, Yeah,

47:43

which I guess she could have rid rage steroids

47:45

too. That's right. Women can do it. If we can be criminals,

47:48

we can abuse steroids, you

47:51

name it, we can do it. Pharaoh is a little bit

47:53

chiller, and another woman

47:55

with part hair. Yeah, she's the pilot. And

47:57

then there's another woman on the team.

48:00

Her name is Dietrich and she seems

48:02

to be like a medic technician

48:05

of some kind. She is one of the first

48:07

people to die, though, so we don't see a ton of

48:09

her on screen, But you were

48:11

mentioning this earlier is that the

48:13

movie kind of goes out of its way to be pretty

48:15

inclusive in terms of having women

48:18

be a part of the marine team,

48:21

which compared this movie to write

48:27

compared this movie to The

48:29

Rock exactly where

48:32

it's kind of similar and that like there's just

48:34

like someone who has a certain specialty that

48:36

gets called in to advise on this

48:38

rescue mission and aliens. It's Ripley.

48:41

In The Rocket's Sean Connery

48:44

his wife

48:47

my favorite shots. But

48:51

in The Rock there are hardly any women

48:54

seen on screen at all. In this

48:56

movie, women have a ton of screen

48:58

time, which makes sense and not insight.

49:01

Unlike The Rock, it's only allowed

49:03

on screen during The Rock if they're wearing a feather

49:06

boa and proposing and

49:09

gregnant anyway.

49:12

So yeah, I think it's

49:14

really cool to see so

49:16

many women in like military positions

49:20

in this movie. Yeah, more progressive

49:22

than our current military and

49:24

our current like movies about military,

49:27

Like there's I would say, if there is a movie

49:29

being made about marines right now, I

49:31

can't imagine it even having the parody of this

49:33

movie. Yeah, or it's like a big deal,

49:35

like a G I. Jane where you're like, oh, can

49:38

you believe it? This

49:40

is such a struggle, what

49:43

a noble struggle. I mean, no

49:45

one's gender really gets aside

49:47

from that one joke that Bill Paxton says in

49:49

the beginning, like there's gender isn't Oh

49:52

there's one other scene. Uh there. It

49:54

was a part of the movie where I said where

49:56

I shouted locker room talk.

49:59

Oh. Yes, because there's a scene where they're

50:01

all at lunch and this is like right after

50:03

Ripley gets there and she's like, oh,

50:05

I wonder if people respect women in the future,

50:07

and it's like nope. Uh

50:11

where Oh I have I have the

50:13

quote one of the marines says,

50:15

Oh, we're going on this mission

50:18

because the juicy

50:20

colonists daughters need rescuing

50:23

from their virginity. Yeah,

50:26

they say the phrase juicy colonists

50:29

daughters. Now that's a fundamentally

50:31

flawed phrase as well, because are they saying that

50:33

the fathers are juicy

50:35

or that's a misplaced

50:39

qualifier. They're like, oh, the juicy

50:41

colonists thin daughters.

50:43

Like we don't know. I simply

50:45

don't know. Jim really camped himself on

50:48

that one. Yeah,

50:51

that is I don't know why that line

50:53

is in the movie. It feels kind of out

50:55

of place, and then they're okay. There is also later

50:57

on they all did suffer at the hands of

50:59

the many juicy daughters on the planet.

51:01

So that's true. I mean there were a bunch

51:04

of juicy daughters, meaning the aliens,

51:06

the slap Monster. I would say

51:08

that they did.

51:11

Yeah, it was a

51:13

wet plane, slippery as hell.

51:16

Please come see my new student film, wet

51:19

Planets,

51:21

just Clammy Planets planet.

51:25

Um. Okay, So, aside from a few

51:27

quick moments, gender isn't really addressed

51:30

in this movie. No one's like, oh, you

51:33

can't do that because you're a woman, or I'm

51:35

not going to listen to a woman. Right

51:37

Yeah, So, um, I think that's that's very

51:40

well. I do feel like the whole meta plot

51:43

of Paul Riser faking

51:45

presumably now that I'm I'm not sure

51:47

how it's you're supposed to read it, but I kind of

51:49

thought the beginning was supposed to be revealed

51:51

to be like a setup and part of the manipulation,

51:54

Like so he got her fired,

51:57

believed her the whole time, but

51:59

was like this only way I can get her on the planet.

52:01

Maybe, I think so? Maybe? Okay, So

52:03

given that like it is a little

52:05

bit like gender. The way that

52:08

all went down, it felt like, I don't

52:10

know how I can see that just kind of manipulate

52:12

a woman in that way, whereas

52:15

I assume that you could. You wouldn't, Yeah, you

52:17

wouldn't do that to a man like

52:19

a corporate right, that's probably not And

52:21

especially because he targets Ripley and

52:23

Newt as being the ones that

52:25

he's going to try to get the face huggers to

52:28

impregnate, essentially so that he can carry

52:30

the yeah exactly, so he can carry the yeah.

52:33

We didn't even get to the fact that he's raping

52:36

for business in this movie, but

52:38

the one other I mean, this movie

52:40

calls less attention to gender,

52:43

I think to its strength a lot of

52:45

the time and shows again it's like an

52:47

element of restraint. This movie shows

52:49

that most movies today would not because

52:52

every male dominated art

52:54

form right now is dying to tell you how

52:56

much they respect women simply gushing.

53:00

But I will say that this movie, like and

53:02

And if it is true that the

53:05

conservative values like we're felt

53:07

represented by this movie, I think it is because we

53:10

have this very strong, capable

53:12

female protagonist. But you do

53:15

have and it works in this story, but it

53:17

is a deliberate choice to have the

53:20

maternal b plot added of like,

53:23

oh, but also she can be maternal

53:25

and gentle and she longs for motherhood

53:27

and like, this is an element of her that

53:30

cannot be denied, which is not the case

53:32

and not representative of every

53:35

woman. So you can't just save a child because

53:37

you don't want to see a kid die, Like,

53:39

come on you, mmy,

53:42

Yeah, I can see that happening and

53:44

being justified more if in the first movie

53:46

it's set up that she has a daughter that she left behind,

53:49

but they deliberately add that detail

53:51

into this movie that hadn't

53:54

previously been established, so that means that that

53:56

did not need to be established. And if they do just

53:58

find a kid, yeah, she doesn't

54:00

necessarily need to be extremely maternal about

54:03

it. She can just be like, Hey, I'm going to help

54:05

make sure this kid doesn't die. This greasy

54:07

little Girls your boss, which could have another

54:09

option, greasy little boss.

54:13

Yeah. I guess the Jim

54:15

really intentionally shoehorns that

54:17

in and and again I think for

54:19

this movie, it does work,

54:22

and it helps build out the

54:24

backstory and interior life of Ripley

54:27

in a way that the first movie kind of doesn't. But

54:30

also the fact that he defaults to, like,

54:32

oh, how is a way I can give this female character

54:34

some depth? Mommy, Yeah,

54:37

that's all I can think of? Is right,

54:39

Like, it's effective, but it's also kind

54:41

of a default. But that's also a trump that

54:43

is usually given to men. So I think it's at

54:45

least interesting that, like the dead daughter

54:48

Trumpe being used to characteristic characterized

54:51

characters. Usually it's not mad

54:53

Tom Hardy and mad Max Fury, Max

54:56

my daughter, I miss her. I'm

54:58

quiet. My movie is bad, that's my

55:01

Max is so good. I'm

55:05

I'm I'm completely alone in that opinion,

55:08

and that just has to be fine. I've been alone

55:10

in that opinion for years and I'm fine. Yeah.

55:12

You just don't like difficult, spiky places.

55:15

I don't like steampunk imagery. I

55:17

don't like that's what this

55:19

is too. I don't like the Orange and Blue movies.

55:22

I guess this is Yeah, bio punk

55:24

is another triggering phrase. There

55:27

any any movie where it's like the Orange

55:29

Blue movie posters? Yeah,

55:32

that's all. Yeah, I love I'm

55:35

here for it. Here. Let

55:37

me talk about some of my favorite moments

55:39

that demonstrate Ripley as being

55:41

a smart person, as being a

55:43

smart smart smart, a good,

55:46

a big smart. She's the one who figures out

55:48

that the soldiers can't fire their weapons

55:50

in a certain place because it'll basically cause

55:52

a nuclear reaction. So after

55:55

the first alien attack, a bunch

55:57

of people die. Gorman is like, who don't

55:59

know what to do? And she grabs him,

56:02

shakes him and screams do

56:05

something. He doesn't

56:07

do anything, So then she basically

56:09

takes over and starts giving orders and

56:12

takes the wheel, drives whatever

56:14

vehicle they're in, and goes and saves the survivors.

56:17

There's a point where Bill Paxston is

56:20

throwing a fit and screaming,

56:23

screaming. She yells

56:26

diamond um.

56:30

She says, I'm stickier bullshit, because

56:33

while he is freaking out,

56:35

she is level headed and knows what

56:37

needs to happen. She's like, give me the fucking plans

56:40

so that we can find the air vent. Since ship

56:42

do you think it's? Sigourney Weaver and Bill Paxston.

56:44

We're friends, I hope,

56:47

so that would be

56:49

so nice. Oh I'm

56:51

gonna look it up. Okay, say yeah? And then

56:53

oh Ripley screams at

56:55

Burke for being a capitalist. Also,

56:57

this movie I feel like is anti

57:00

colonialism as well, for sure,

57:02

because all the colonists

57:04

die the end.

57:07

Also, I think this movie is a pro choice

57:10

because Sigourney Weaver kills

57:12

the alien flat babies with a flamethrower,

57:16

which, okay, leads me to one

57:18

of many climactic sequences

57:21

in this movie where she

57:24

does like the last big rescue

57:26

at the end, she goes in and

57:28

rescues Newts, and that

57:30

whole sequence is all female

57:33

characters because it's Ripley Newt,

57:36

the alien queen, and

57:38

the automated female voice, which I don't

57:40

know if we ever learned her name or not, but like basically

57:42

the like and

57:45

the tone of the automated female

57:47

voice is kind of actually, she's

57:50

got a little tuned and that voice.

57:52

At first, what's that phrase she kept saying. It was something

57:54

to like get out. She's like, yeah,

57:56

you only have like fifty minutes. Excuse

58:00

doing here? Excuse me, just

58:04

a quick update. Sigourney Weaver was

58:06

sad Bill Packson died. Okay,

58:09

she looks like, I'm go good

58:12

finally. But

58:14

so in this sequence, all these

58:16

surviving male characters, which is only

58:18

Bishop and Hicks, are treated the

58:21

way that a lot of female characters are in action

58:23

movies, which is that they are completely sidelined

58:25

and not given anything to do. Ripley

58:29

saves herself, She saves Newt.

58:31

She does not need to be saved by a man

58:34

a little earlier there. Yeah,

58:37

she is saved, but only because, like,

58:40

she tries very hard to save herself,

58:42

and these things have proven to be nearly

58:44

impossible to fight off and

58:47

it takes like three or four men to pull the thing

58:49

off of her. So I didn't hate that,

58:51

especially because then she does go on to

58:54

save herself and have all the agency

58:56

at the end of the movie. I agree. So I

58:58

was. I was worried because that was the point

59:00

of the in the movie where I was like, this could

59:03

be the climactic scene, because this movie could

59:05

be over soon because it's pretty much

59:08

done, but because it's actually

59:10

sixty five scenes before the movie actually answered

59:13

so long, Well, we need that scene

59:15

where she's just got away from her you rich,

59:18

Yeah, but let's just go to that scene. Did

59:20

we need the scorpion scene? Although I did really

59:22

like when she and Knut were banging

59:24

on the glass and they're like, is can anyone hear us? I

59:26

was like, I feel you.

59:31

Um, I feel like one of the

59:33

reasons I brought this up it was because

59:36

when like shitty film guys talk about

59:38

the backdel test, specifically the like well

59:41

technically like the queen aliens

59:43

like a woman. That's That's

59:46

kind of why I thought it would be funny to bring this to the podcast.

59:48

But then I forgot that at least

59:50

and aliens probably an alien.

59:53

There's like enough other stuff.

59:55

I actually thought this whole podcast was going

59:57

to be a debate about whether, like

1:00:00

screeching violently constitutes dialogue.

1:00:04

What is the queen saying? We don't know,

1:00:06

is she talking about a man? She might be like, you

1:00:08

killed my son? You killed my son? Should

1:00:10

be like I think Bill Paxton's doing a great

1:00:13

job in this movie. Fine, he's

1:00:15

fine. Big Love is a good

1:00:17

show. He's a capable character

1:00:20

actor, but no one calls him a character actor because

1:00:22

he's hot. Rest

1:00:26

Paradise, Rest in past in Paradise,

1:00:28

Rest in Paxiston. Oh Paxton,

1:00:30

my Packiston. Oh

1:00:32

there's another quick scene I wanted to

1:00:34

talk about, where it's wearing. They first

1:00:37

find Newt and Ripley

1:00:39

is like cleaning off nuts face

1:00:42

and she's like, oh, hard to believe there's a

1:00:44

little girl under this, because again she is

1:00:47

covered in just slime and

1:00:49

goop and dirt. She's a slippery little

1:00:51

girl because slippery. So yeah,

1:00:53

she's like hard to believe there's a little girl under this dot

1:00:55

dot dot and a pretty one too,

1:00:58

which is not a line

1:01:00

that Ripley needs to say. I mean, I

1:01:02

don't know. Maybe she's trying to lift her spirits

1:01:05

because granted, her parents were

1:01:07

murdered by aliens and she's

1:01:09

the only one left alive on this planet. But

1:01:12

I think it's just goes to show

1:01:14

that girls and women are

1:01:16

often only appreciated for the

1:01:19

way they look and only talked about in the context

1:01:21

of the way they look, whereas little boys

1:01:23

are complimented about being smart

1:01:25

and being athletic and being

1:01:28

all kinds of other things. I think,

1:01:30

and and that's like one of those interesting

1:01:32

little uncanny moments where you're like, oh, this

1:01:34

movie was written by a guy, like

1:01:37

it's just one of the yeah, but then a movie that large,

1:01:39

because how else would a

1:01:41

guy imagine you comfort

1:01:43

a little girl exactly exactly

1:01:45

like how would a mom comfort a young girl

1:01:48

call her pretty? But then

1:01:50

there's several scenes later where

1:01:53

Ripley's like she survived without

1:01:55

any training or weapons, Like, she's

1:01:57

clearly very competent. There are those who seems

1:02:00

where she kind of condescends to her and

1:02:02

new It is like, I'm not an idiot, I

1:02:04

know that plastic dollheads can't

1:02:07

have bad dreams. And she's like, oh yeah, like

1:02:09

I mean that's I like that moment. Yeah, exactly.

1:02:11

So it would have been awesome in that like training

1:02:14

our weapons monologue if she then was like, and

1:02:16

that's why I'm giving this four year old girl a

1:02:18

plasma rifle. Here you go, she's

1:02:21

eleven whatever? Sorry, yeah,

1:02:25

I think so that's crazy. I was seven,

1:02:27

I said for because my brain shut off.

1:02:30

She might not be. Maybe I'm just thinking she's eleven because

1:02:33

that's how old Ripley's daughter was whenever. She's

1:02:35

probably eleven. I don't know how old any kid

1:02:38

ever. Anyway, Look I'm saying, is preteen

1:02:40

with a plasma rifle. I'm for it. I

1:02:42

would see it, Yeah, I would see it. I'm mostly

1:02:45

for it. Mostly. Oh my god,

1:02:47

you're making so many of those jobs for the

1:02:51

child. Actor who played

1:02:53

Newt is a teacher. Now, Oh

1:02:55

cool, isn't that what happens in the beginning

1:02:58

of Alien three, they're just like title hard

1:03:00

style, like, oh Newt died spaceship

1:03:02

crash. Yeah, they do kill

1:03:04

her. They do kill her. They're

1:03:07

like, she had the call to

1:03:10

pursue the most noble profession. There's

1:03:13

actually a couple of things I did want to say about Alien

1:03:15

three, because it feels like the first of

1:03:17

the Alien movies where gender

1:03:20

is largely commented on, because

1:03:22

it's generally pretty ignored in

1:03:24

the first two Alien movies. Ripley

1:03:27

crash lands on to a planet

1:03:29

where there's like a penal quality full

1:03:32

of men with why y chromosomes,

1:03:35

which is not a real thing.

1:03:37

I don't but

1:03:39

I guess they're implying that these men are so masculine

1:03:42

that they have many white chromosomes.

1:03:45

And the whole time everyone's like, oh, no, you're

1:03:47

a woman, and we're going to be horny

1:03:50

because we're murderers and rapists

1:03:52

of women, and she's going to cause trouble.

1:03:55

Real come fueled decision. Also,

1:03:57

in Alien three, Ripley

1:04:00

is given a love interest, So there's

1:04:02

some interesting things, and by interesting I mean things

1:04:04

I don't I don't like about Alien three.

1:04:07

Do they kind of try to give her and

1:04:09

Hicks a moment and it seems

1:04:12

like, oh yeah, I did actually want to talk about where

1:04:14

there's that scene where she's trying to

1:04:16

learn how to use his plasma rifle.

1:04:19

He's like standing behind her and

1:04:21

like has his arms kind of around her,

1:04:23

showing her how to do different stuff, and

1:04:26

that's played in a lot of movies. Were like, look

1:04:28

at this flirtatious moment where like a

1:04:30

man's trying to teach a woman how to swing

1:04:32

a tennis racket, and it's like all

1:04:34

hot and flirtatious, like what

1:04:37

Jim Cameron does on his dates with like

1:04:39

how to use the personal submarine. Oh

1:04:42

my god, it's like I've actually got some pretty cool summers.

1:04:46

You want if you want to drive it, you want to try didn't

1:04:49

hold the wheel. But in this movie,

1:04:52

I think it's handled better. And yet I

1:04:54

think there's like a hint of like maybe they're

1:04:57

in each other. Right. It's very

1:05:00

weird and very unnecessary.

1:05:02

But in the scene where she's like learning to use that gun,

1:05:05

at first, I was like a scene where a man's teaching

1:05:07

a woman how to use a thing. But I'm like, gosh, she is from the

1:05:09

past, so she probably wouldn't know how to

1:05:11

use it. Well, she also asked him how to use it, So

1:05:14

yeah, he wasn't telling you something she knew right

1:05:16

right, So he was not man splanning to her.

1:05:18

He was just explaining. Sometimes man

1:05:20

can't explain without man splaining. Sometimes,

1:05:24

don't tell them that, mostly don't. Mostly

1:05:26

they can do that mostly anyway.

1:05:30

Um, does anyone have any final

1:05:33

thoughts about Aliens? Alpha

1:05:35

Molina could have been in this movie? Um

1:05:39

as newt Oh,

1:05:41

he's a chameleon. He could have played a slippery

1:05:44

kid like do it with forced perspective,

1:05:46

like standing in really far away a

1:05:49

very expensive process. Or he could

1:05:51

have played any of the aliens

1:05:53

in a Little Green. He could have gone full

1:05:55

Andy Sirkus, sure you played the aliens,

1:05:59

or he could of play well he could, you

1:06:01

know, he could play Jones the cat. He

1:06:05

also could have played the queen mother. You know,

1:06:07

he's that versatile. One last

1:06:10

thing I wanted to talk about was all

1:06:12

of the vaginal birth

1:06:17

straight up upskirt of an

1:06:19

egg laying. Yes, so the

1:06:22

Queen Aliens for that was in

1:06:24

there. She has what seems

1:06:26

to be an external vagina, which

1:06:29

I think is extremely sex positive

1:06:31

if you ask me, and very perfectly detachable

1:06:35

because she literally rips herself off

1:06:37

of it. It looks painful. I don't

1:06:39

need this right now, and

1:06:42

I feel like one of the scariest things

1:06:44

about like this movie and

1:06:46

the first Alien movie is like the

1:06:49

way the aliens jest state

1:06:51

and like like the queen

1:06:54

lazy eggs and then inside those eggs

1:06:56

like face thing and that attaches

1:06:59

to your face and pregnant your chest, and

1:07:01

then that dies, and then an infant

1:07:04

alien bursts out of your chest and

1:07:06

then it takes what seems like only an hour to grow

1:07:08

to adulthood, and then

1:07:10

and then it becomes this terrifying thing. So I don't know

1:07:12

if like, is that like the writers

1:07:14

and filmmakers who are largely

1:07:17

men uh in these movies,

1:07:19

is that a way for them to be like, look how

1:07:22

gross and scary childbirth

1:07:25

is and how little we understand. The

1:07:28

movie monsters in general, right are just

1:07:30

like manifestations of anxieties,

1:07:33

and men are scared of vagina

1:07:36

is a lot because they don't understand it. Some movie

1:07:38

monsters represent communism, other movie monsters

1:07:40

represent women because it's something

1:07:42

that the author is uh

1:07:45

afraid of and doesn't understand. For

1:07:47

for this movie, it works

1:07:50

because when we see like male

1:07:52

protagonists slaying the vagina

1:07:55

and conquering the vagina monster,

1:07:59

that is net negative.

1:08:02

Having a female protagonist confront

1:08:05

and defeat the vagina monster. I don't

1:08:07

know what that is. It's more interesting.

1:08:10

I don't know. I mean, I think it's it's definitely a

1:08:12

trope being recycled here, but it didn't bother

1:08:15

me in this movie. Yeah, I don't think any real

1:08:17

commentary is being made. I don't

1:08:19

think so either, But I don't think it's setting things

1:08:21

back either. Yeah, yeah,

1:08:23

yeah, I would agree with it's not regressive, But it's also

1:08:26

like it's all just just like, well, here's you

1:08:28

haven't seen this. I think you

1:08:31

seen a giant queen bee

1:08:33

alien rip her own external

1:08:36

vagina off of her to a

1:08:38

woman to fight a woman. Yet

1:08:41

until nine, right,

1:08:43

isn't that the whole thing with the hr Geiger. It's like all

1:08:45

those drawings are like, you know, everything

1:08:48

is infused with like sex organs

1:08:50

from everything, and it's like the idea is

1:08:52

like the horror of that.

1:08:55

So, quoting a paraphrasing what I would

1:08:57

imagine they would say, it's like the horror

1:08:59

of that confus fusion is

1:09:01

what some Swedish

1:09:04

dude, w h think

1:09:06

something like some white dude thinks it's

1:09:08

the scariest thing in the world. Yeah. Um,

1:09:11

let's talk about whether or not this movie passes the Bechtel

1:09:14

test a

1:09:17

few times. There is a moment where

1:09:19

Ripley and Basquez are talking

1:09:22

and she's talking about what happened in the

1:09:24

first alien movie, and then Basquez

1:09:26

like the first Yeah,

1:09:30

what happens um. Vasquez is

1:09:32

like, look, man, I only need to know one

1:09:35

thing where they are? But she does

1:09:37

say, look, man, so interesting

1:09:40

and they they is ambiguous.

1:09:43

Well do we

1:09:45

know the sex of the aliens?

1:09:49

I think, well, I think a caveat for the

1:09:51

Bechtel test is that are they talking

1:09:53

about human men? And if it's

1:09:55

an animal or a xeno more for whatever,

1:09:58

it doesn't matter. I don't think

1:10:01

yeah, so I would say that passes.

1:10:04

Uh. And then Ripley and Newt talk

1:10:06

a lot um. Sometimes they mentioned

1:10:09

nuts little brother or like

1:10:11

her dad, but several of those scenes

1:10:14

to pass the Backtel test. The scene where

1:10:16

Newts says we should go back inside

1:10:18

because they mostly come out at night. Mostly

1:10:23

that passes the Bechtel tests,

1:10:25

Thank you so much. And then there's the scene at

1:10:27

the end where Ripley says, get away from her, are you bitch?

1:10:30

And then I

1:10:33

think all the scenes between Sigourney

1:10:35

Weaver and the Jack Vagina's past, whether

1:10:37

there's dialogue being spoken or not. Yeah,

1:10:40

it's a massive asterisk scene. Yeah.

1:10:42

So the movie passes the

1:10:44

beachdel test. Let's

1:10:48

gotta go, right, oh

1:10:50

ship, Yes, I very much have to go. Guys, sorry,

1:10:53

this was so fun than you. Yeah, thanks

1:10:55

for I didn't want you to be too late. Oh

1:10:58

no, thank you. I spy.

1:11:01

Okay, So let's write the movie on our nipple scale

1:11:04

zero to five nipples based on portrayal of women. Um,

1:11:07

I would give it. I'm gonna give it a four.

1:11:09

I'm gonna take nipples off

1:11:12

for the character of Vesquez

1:11:15

being a Latina character but not being

1:11:17

played by a Latina actress. Dog,

1:11:19

and one for brown face. Yeah, yep. There's

1:11:22

a few other, you know, small gripes where,

1:11:25

yeah, like Ripley does have to do this thing

1:11:27

where she has to prove herself to a man. She's like,

1:11:29

hey, look I can drive a forklift

1:11:31

that you didn't think I could do, and they're like, oh

1:11:33

he he wow wow.

1:11:35

But I would say, by and large

1:11:37

apart from a few like lines of dialogue

1:11:39

here and there that are just like that could

1:11:41

have been cut and the movie would be better. This

1:11:44

movie does. I would even go so far

1:11:46

as to say an excellent job depicting

1:11:48

women in an action blockbuster,

1:11:51

especially considering the error that it came

1:11:53

out in the mid eighties. Ripley

1:11:56

is in the movie because they

1:11:58

need her. She's the only one who can

1:12:01

provide the information that they

1:12:03

need to get their mission accomplished.

1:12:05

Right. Without her, the movie cannot take place right.

1:12:07

Also, yeah, she's level headed, she's

1:12:10

smart, she's a good, strong leader.

1:12:12

And the other female characters,

1:12:15

the fact that they're in the movie at all is shouldn't

1:12:18

be surprising, but it was considering, right,

1:12:22

But I do like that it attempted

1:12:24

to be more inclusive than

1:12:27

most action movies, especially of this

1:12:29

era, and that those female characters

1:12:32

are generally pretty well developed

1:12:34

and interesting. Yes, so I'm gonna

1:12:36

give it four nipples, and all

1:12:38

four of my nipples go to the Queen

1:12:40

Alien Cool. I'll

1:12:42

give it for as well. Obviously, we

1:12:45

don't need to tell our audience that actors of

1:12:47

any gender in brown phase is absolutely unacceptable,

1:12:50

and it just it sucks because that

1:12:52

casting choice to some extent, like

1:12:55

lessons the impact of what is a very well

1:12:57

written character that pisces

1:12:59

me off. But for all the reasons

1:13:01

you said, the fact that this movie cannot the plot

1:13:03

can't move forward without its female characters,

1:13:06

which even in action movies

1:13:08

where there are capable women

1:13:11

present, the presence of those

1:13:13

women isn't necessarily critical

1:13:15

to the core action of the movie taking

1:13:17

place. That's not the case for this

1:13:19

and that is amazing and also shouldn't

1:13:22

be amazing obvious. Yeah,

1:13:24

I think that jim cam to this one pretty

1:13:26

pretty damn well. Yes, I think it was a

1:13:28

solid Jim Cam. I still

1:13:30

think it's so fucking boring. I'm sorry.

1:13:34

It was very long and vaginal

1:13:36

imagery will get me in the

1:13:38

seat. But the fact that it's a it's

1:13:40

a real blue and orange, and that's

1:13:42

that's when I'm calling every movie I don't like

1:13:44

from now on. Yeah, it was never

1:13:47

gonna be for me, but the way it treats this female characters

1:13:49

is by and large pretty exceptional.

1:13:52

So four nippies, I'm gonna

1:13:54

toss two to slippery Little

1:13:57

newt Uh, and then I'll

1:13:59

give the other two to Paxxton

1:14:02

Cool. Sorry, Sigourney from

1:14:04

me. Yeah. Wow, that was a surprising turn

1:14:06

of events. Just now listen rest

1:14:08

In Paxton. Andrew had to

1:14:10

leave before we could get his

1:14:13

social media. I'll plug it. Yeah.

1:14:15

You can find Andrew T online at

1:14:18

andrew T I believe across

1:14:20

all platforms. It is just his name.

1:14:23

The last name is spelled T. I

1:14:25

like the rapper um

1:14:28

and you can also listen to his wonderful podcast

1:14:30

he is this racist. Highly recommend

1:14:32

yes, indeed, so thank you

1:14:35

Andrew T for being here. Hey,

1:14:37

thanks you wow, thank

1:14:39

you. Thanks

1:14:41

for and

1:14:44

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1:14:46

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1:15:04

In conclusion, don't see Deadpool

1:15:07

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1:15:10

Bye,