0:01

On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked

0:03

if movies have women and them,

0:05

are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

0:08

or do they have individualism? It's

0:10

the patriarchy, zeph and vest

0:12

start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

0:16

Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlyn, do

0:18

you want to open up a salon slash

0:21

restaurant with me?

0:22

Yes? I do?

0:23

Okay, cool, I can't do either

0:25

of the things.

0:26

Oh well, wait till you

0:29

see the dance.

0:30

Okay, okay, Well I'm also really

0:32

good at dancing, so.

0:34

Let's do that. Incredible, incredible.

0:37

I think that that was a really that was strong. I was like,

0:39

should we start to deceive each other? But

0:43

just in general, just in life anyways, Welcome

0:45

to the Bechdel Cast.

0:46

My name's Jamie Loftus, my name

0:48

is Caitlyn Dante, and this is

0:50

our show where we examine movies through an

0:52

intersectional feminist lens, using the

0:55

Bechdel test as a jumping

0:57

off point.

0:58

Absolutely true.

0:59

But what is that?

1:01

Though?

1:02

Well, there's a lot of different versions

1:04

of the Bechdel's test. It is originally

1:06

created as a joke, as a bit.

1:08

As a goof yes,

1:11

boof, a goof.

1:12

Uh by Alison Bechdel

1:15

in the eighties for her incredible

1:17

comics series Dikes to Watch Out For, often

1:19

called the Bechdel Wallace Test because she co created

1:21

it with her friend Liz Wallace. Our

1:23

version of the test that we use requires

1:26

that two people of a marginalized gender

1:29

with names talk to each other about

1:31

something other than a man for two lines of dialogue.

1:33

And it should be plot impactful

1:36

dialogue.

1:38

And that's the test. Most movies don't pass this

1:41

one spoiler alert does.

1:42

It does because the movie we're

1:45

talking about today is BAPS, Yeah,

1:47

nineteen ninety seven. Same your Titanic

1:50

came out. Sorry to mention it.

1:52

That was my first note. It's like greatest yudent film.

1:55

We have a returning guest today, is it Third

1:58

Ford?

1:59

I think time.

2:00

That's a jacket.

2:01

Yeah, I'm like Steve Martinette Saturday

2:03

Night Live. Yeah.

2:04

Basically, yes,

2:07

she's the host of Ihearts.

2:09

There are no girls on the Internet. It's Bridget

2:11

tod welcome back.

2:14

Thank you for having me. I was telling Caitlin

2:16

off Mike that y'all could not have picked a

2:18

better movie for me to talk about that I feel more

2:20

strongly about. So I am so excited

2:23

to be here.

2:23

Oh, we're so excited to have you tell

2:26

us your relationship with

2:28

Baps.

2:29

Well, I remember very

2:31

distinctly watching this for the first time

2:33

at a slumber party in the nineties.

2:36

It was one of those do you ever have

2:38

memories of going to Blockbuster and

2:40

picking out a movie and being so excited

2:42

and then getting that tub of popcorn

2:45

that they had or you put it in the microwave. I have a

2:47

clear memory of my mind of like going

2:50

during a sleepover to rent this movie

2:52

and watching it and sitting on my stomach

2:54

and like just loving it.

2:55

I love memories like that too, where it's like I feel

2:57

like the thing that sticks with me the strongest is

3:00

like the politics among

3:02

usually a group of girls in the Blockbuster,

3:05

where you're trying to reach a consensus and there's

3:07

like people calling each other over from one wall to

3:09

the other being like that this one and

3:11

then you have to debate.

3:12

It's exciting and this is

3:14

such a sleepover movie.

3:16

It is, and so one of the reasons

3:18

why I'm so excited to talk about it is that it

3:21

is a movie that when it came out, was

3:23

like controversial. People liked it,

3:25

didn't like it, people had a lot to say about it, and

3:27

I loved it from the beginning. I loved it then, I love

3:29

it now. If folks ever watched Real Housewives

3:32

of Atlanta, there's a scene where one

3:34

woman is trying to humiliate another woman

3:37

when she's flowing a costume party, and so she's giving

3:39

everybody glamorous Hollywood

3:41

celebrities to come dressed as It's like, oh, you

3:43

come dressed as Diana Ross,

3:45

you come dressed as Billie Holliday And she's like,

3:47

I want you to come dressed as halle Berry from BAPS,

3:50

And it's meant to be like a deep insult.

3:53

So it's definitely a movie that holds

3:55

a lot of wow. Co Yeah,

3:58

she doesn't spoiler, she doesn't do she comes

4:00

dressed as halle Berry and Dorothy Dandridge

4:03

to sort of get around it, but yeah,

4:05

it was like an.

4:05

Insult, ridiculous because

4:07

halle Berry's looks in this movie

4:10

iconic.

4:10

Yeah, the costuming is unbelievable.

4:13

It helped me get around a lot of plot dissonance,

4:18

I.

4:18

Know, and I do feel like the joke

4:21

of the movie is supposed to be like, look how

4:23

tacky these women look, But there

4:25

are multiple outfits and halle Berry

4:27

wears where I'm like, I would wear that today, no

4:29

problem. If that was in my closet, I will be

4:31

very happy.

4:32

Her character Natalie

4:34

Dscell reads character like they're looking terrific.

4:38

It's true, It's true, And I speaking

4:40

to your point, Bridget I was really I

4:43

wasn't aware of the discourse around

4:45

this movie when it came out. It's always interesting

4:48

covering a movie that, like the way it was received,

4:50

was so wrong, and

4:53

then having to come back around gosh,

4:56

this movie is my brother's age twenty seven years

4:58

later, scary and sort

5:00

of revisit it, which I'm glad that some writers have,

5:03

but not as many as I would have expected.

5:05

Yeah, to prep for this, I read Roger

5:07

Ebert's original review of this movie. Eviscerated

5:11

it, like skewered it. It was

5:14

worst of lists. And I, even

5:16

if I don't agree with Roger Ebert, I usually love reading

5:18

his reviews and like he could

5:20

not stand this movie.

5:22

Yeah, I'm excited to dig into that.

5:25

I don't know Roger Ebert like when he hits,

5:27

he hits what he misses it's so embarrassing,

5:31

and I feel like we have had a feud

5:34

with his ghosts on this show for

5:36

many years.

5:37

Right, Well, it's the thing that we have talked

5:40

about quite a lot where I mean

5:42

this movie. First of all, it was a box

5:44

office flop, unfortunately, and

5:47

most critics hated it. But as we've talked about

5:49

a lot on the show, most of the critics

5:52

reviewing movies in like at least major

5:54

publications in ninety

5:56

seven were white men. This

5:58

is a movie about two black women made by black

6:01

filmmakers, and so a lot of critics

6:03

at that time were like, well, this

6:06

movie isn't about someone who

6:08

looks like me, and so therefore it's

6:10

not for me, and therefore I don't understand

6:12

it, and I don't like it.

6:14

Yeah there's and they're also we can save it

6:16

for later.

6:16

But I feel like there was a lot of like respectability

6:19

politics encoded into the

6:21

reviews that I was reading, where like it

6:24

was white reviewers deciding what

6:27

was appropriate in terms of

6:29

like how black women could be represented.

6:31

It was an interesting thing to get into because then you also

6:34

read interviews with the writer Troy

6:36

Bayer, and she's like, I hated Robert

6:39

Townsend's directorial choices and I don't

6:41

like the movie, and so you're like well, a lot of

6:43

things are going on.

6:46

Yeah, that's a good point, And like, I

6:49

love Robert Townsend absolutely. Another

6:51

movie that he had made was Hollywood Shuffle, So like,

6:54

he definitely has somebody who was interested in playing

6:56

with satire and stereotypes

6:58

around culture and blackness. I make a larger

7:00

point, whether or not that point like

7:03

lands or false flat or whatever. I

7:05

think he was clearly doing something

7:07

with this movie, and I think a lot of the

7:09

film reviewers maybe missed what he

7:12

was doing. But yeah, I read the same thing

7:14

as you, Jamie, that one of the screenwriters

7:16

on this movie was like, I hated it. I had a lot

7:19

of issues with the script and this and

7:21

that, and so I want to take that into account

7:23

too. But I do think that some of the

7:25

reviews that make this sound like it was just a vapid,

7:27

cruel movie bashing

7:30

working class black women. I don't see that,

7:34

Jamie.

7:34

What is your relationship with this movie?

7:36

I had not seen this movie before, and that's

7:39

sort of the beginning, middle, and an end of it.

7:42

I knew of it, and I.

7:44

Didn't know that Troy Bayer had written it.

7:46

She's just like a really interesting

7:49

person. The more I was reading about

7:51

her, the Bore. I was like, she's just like she started

7:53

as a sesame street kid and

7:55

she's like Caitlin Durante Mode has.

7:57

A million degrees and a million things.

8:00

I would never mention it, but thank

8:02

you for bringing it up.

8:04

Yeah, she has lived many

8:06

lives, and I thought it was interesting again

8:08

because I feel like so many times when we cover a

8:10

movie, we're like, wonder how the writer felt about

8:12

how the adaptation of their work

8:15

translated to the screen, And Trey Byer was very outspoken

8:17

about it, So, yeah, I hadn't seen it before.

8:19

I think there's so much to love about this movie. It's such

8:22

a sleepover movie. It's so clear

8:25

who the movie's for, and everyone

8:27

who is vocally outspoken about this movie were

8:30

nowhere near who the movie's

8:32

for. So I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlin,

8:34

what's your history?

8:36

I had also never seen it, though

8:38

I know that it's been a

8:40

request on the show

8:43

from like a few select listeners.

8:45

It's a cult classic, right, so it's not something

8:48

that like tons and tons and tons of

8:50

people are being like, you gotta cover this movie, but like

8:52

the people who are requesting it are like, you

8:55

have to do this movie. They're very fervent.

8:57

About Baps and Muriel's wedding,

9:00

Like the listeners who want it wanted

9:02

badly.

9:04

If any of those folks are listening, who like really

9:07

have been requesting it, I hope I do it justice. I

9:10

guess I'll just say.

9:10

That we've brought

9:13

in a three timer. We've brought in a hitter.

9:15

Yeah.

9:16

No, you'll do great. This will be great,

9:19

Everything will be great. We're

9:21

gonna live forever.

9:22

Yeah.

9:23

Should I do the recap and we'll go from

9:25

there, Let's do it. Okay. So

9:28

we are in Decatur, Georgia.

9:31

We meet two friends, Nissi

9:33

that's Hallie Berry and Mickey

9:36

that's Natalie to sell read rest

9:38

in Peace. They work at

9:40

a soul food restaurant that's owned

9:42

by Bernie Mack. Loved

9:44

seeing him already. You're like, I'm in, I'm

9:47

in.

9:47

Can I say one thing about this? Yeah,

9:50

not to hope this is it doesn't derail things. But I just

9:52

want to say, Bernie mac rest in peace.

9:54

Before he died, he has a chronic illness,

9:57

or had a chronic illness called parcedosis, which

9:59

my father also had. And so it's near

10:01

and dear to me. But folks might not know

10:03

that the University of Illinois Hospital

10:05

Center has the Bernie mac Center

10:08

for Sarcarnosi's research, and I donate

10:10

every year. Folks should donate. Oh my god,

10:12

it's an undertreated, understudied chronic

10:15

illness that disproportionately impacts black folks,

10:17

and so it's a cause that's near to me. So

10:20

please donate if you've got extra change. And thank

10:22

you University of Illinois for studying this undertreated

10:25

illness.

10:26

Whow we will link to that. I had

10:28

no idea.

10:29

Yeah, thank you for letting me give back.

10:31

What Oh, of course, yeah, we'll support

10:34

So yes, Bernie Mack is there. He's running

10:37

the restaurant. Nissi and Mickey,

10:40

they're best friends. They have

10:42

similar esthetics in that they have

10:45

really long fingernails. They're always wearing

10:47

elaborate hairdoos that Nissi

10:49

does because she's an aspiring salon

10:52

owner.

10:52

She's technically making sausage

10:55

at the beginning. But I consider that the

10:57

hot dog representation of the movie as

10:59

like, if a hot dog doesn't show up later, this

11:02

movie still passes the Jamie Locktas hot dog

11:04

test. Is there a hot time?

11:06

Is there a hot dog represented

11:08

on screen? And close enough,

11:10

I would say for this movie. So yeah,

11:13

they wear flashy clothes, they've got the hairdos,

11:15

they've got the nails, all that. On the radio,

11:18

Nissi hears an announcement that

11:21

auditions are being held in La to

11:23

cast a dancer for Heavy

11:25

D's dance Girl of the World,

11:28

and whoever is cast in this will get ten

11:30

thousand dollars. And Nisi

11:32

wants to go to this audition because she hopes

11:35

to get cast and use that

11:37

money to open a hair salon

11:39

slash restaurant that presumably

11:41

she would do the hair for and that McKey

11:44

would be the chef at. I

11:46

think of the idea.

11:47

Do you all think it's a good idea? Like I've been

11:49

wrestling back and forth with whether or not this is a

11:51

great idea or a terrible idea.

11:54

I think it feels like it's at high risk

11:56

for like a fire.

12:00

Lots of hair and also ki yeah,

12:03

right, like if someone with like a lot

12:05

of hairspray and a lot of like

12:08

grease grill, like

12:11

I guess it depends on what kind of food they're

12:13

serving.

12:14

Seems like a high accident.

12:16

Well, also just seems like unsanitary

12:19

and unhygienic with like people's dander

12:22

flying through the air and their hair all

12:24

over the floor and stuff.

12:26

That's true, I mean spoiler

12:28

alert, they end up doing it. Yes,

12:30

So I wish we could fast forward a year.

12:32

It'd be like, so what does Osha

12:35

think?

12:35

Yeah, right, where's baps too?

12:38

Which is all about the salon slash restaurant.

12:40

I also it was a twist of the movie

12:42

for me to find out that the old man

12:45

came up with the term baps. Yes,

12:48

yeah, I was like, what he

12:51

was just like coining on his

12:53

deathbed.

12:54

Like, yeah, he uses his will to coin

12:57

the phrase.

12:58

I just didn't see.

12:59

It coming, right, because they're like, what's

13:01

baps? And then he's like black

13:04

American princesses.

13:05

Yeah, I was like, wait, it was

13:07

his idea.

13:08

Yeah, didn't see that coming.

13:10

And this is like true of so many rom coms.

13:12

But I just thought there was a very fun, kind

13:15

of bizarre liberal use of

13:17

like a vague movie

13:19

score where sometimes like

13:22

something's happening that is like plot

13:24

impactful, but not like the most serious thing

13:26

in the world. And it's like dude, dude,

13:28

dude, including the entire end

13:31

of the movie, the whole last minute there's no It

13:34

was like they're just playing the

13:36

score and I'm like, I would just like to know

13:38

what they're saying, because they're saying

13:40

things, m M, maybe the sound something

13:43

happened. I don't know.

13:44

And they're like, if we just put music over

13:46

this and show people's reactions,

13:48

it'll be clear. Show don't

13:50

tell you know. Yeah, do you remember

13:53

wire screenwriting? Okay,

13:56

So we also meet Nissi

13:59

and Mickey's two boyfriends, Allie

14:02

played by Pierre Edwards that's Niecy's

14:04

boyfriend, and James played

14:06

by Anthony Johnson that's Mickey's boyfriend.

14:09

They're trying to start up like a car

14:11

service company, but right

14:13

now they're unemployed.

14:16

They have questionable haircuts.

14:21

They're kind of losers.

14:22

More importantly, they're not very nice to

14:25

their girlfriends. Right if

14:27

be a loser all you want if you're a good partner.

14:30

They are my least favorite part of this movie.

14:32

I'm sure I'll get to it, but they are my least

14:34

favorite part of this movie.

14:36

Write them out, yeah,

14:39

truly.

14:39

I mean, I appreciate that Troy Byer's

14:41

been outspoken about how she feels about the

14:43

final product, but I wish she was a little

14:46

more specific. I'm like, did she want the movie

14:48

to end like that? Because it

14:50

feels like the boyfriends

14:53

did not deserve that.

14:55

Yeah. Anyway, So

14:58

then Nissi sees another ad for

15:00

the Dance Girl of the World contest

15:03

and takes it as a sign that she and Mickey

15:05

should definitely go to the audition in

15:08

LA. Before they leave, though, they

15:10

go out to a club because it's ladies

15:12

night and they get in free, and a

15:14

bunch of guys want to talk to them, but none

15:16

of them want to or can spend the

15:18

money to buy them drinks, including

15:21

their boyfriends. So Nissi

15:23

is all the more eager to get away and

15:25

travel to LA and hopefully meet

15:28

like a rich guy in LA.

15:31

On the flight, they're trying to

15:33

learn etiquette from a book.

15:35

Their hair is too big and it's blocking

15:38

everyone's view of the in flight movie,

15:41

very funny stuff.

15:42

There so many like vignettes.

15:44

There's so many comedy montages.

15:47

It's like, it's nineteen ninety seven,

15:49

baby, we're doing comedy montages.

15:52

True fun fact. That flight

15:54

attendant who was like, can you lower your

15:56

hair? It's a severa Wilson from that TV.

16:00

Oh my god.

16:00

Yeah, a lot of good cameos in this movie, including

16:02

one we're about to see, which is LL

16:05

cool J. Because they arrive in La they're

16:08

at the airport, they accost LL cool.

16:10

J nineteen ninety seven.

16:14

They do this every time they see a famous person,

16:16

because there's a bunch of cameos sprinkled

16:18

throughout the movie, and they're always accosting

16:20

whoever it is and being like, oh my god,

16:23

I'm your biggest fan, marry me, sing

16:25

for me, blah blah blah. They're always making a scene and.

16:27

Singing for me is like there's a Phantom of the Opera.

16:32

I can really relate to that scene with

16:34

LL COOLJ.

16:35

Y'all.

16:35

I used to I might embarrass to say. I used

16:37

to write him letters, like I had his like

16:40

pictures on my wall, and I was so

16:42

obsessed with him. People forget like in nineteen

16:44

ninety seven, he was a real sex symbol and

16:46

he made like music that was like very

16:49

sensual.

16:49

What was in the letters?

16:52

Oh, I would be like, I thought there was

16:54

a world where we might get together, So mind

16:57

you, I was like a child. So

17:00

it's a lot of like when we meet, like blah

17:02

blah blah. Yeah, I was obsessed

17:04

with him.

17:04

Was it the sort of thing where like ll

17:07

COOLJ Industries would

17:09

like send you something back, like

17:11

fan mail stuff.

17:13

God, I wish they probably were

17:15

like, let's never indulge this child's

17:17

fantasy about we're.

17:19

Putting Bridget's name on a list.

17:21

If any even knows him, I would still accept

17:23

a form letter back to this day, I would

17:25

still happily take that.

17:27

Oh, in any case. They arrive in

17:30

La they head to the audition.

17:32

There's a very long line and Nissi

17:35

kind of has like a dance off with another woman

17:38

waiting in the line, which a

17:40

man nearby notices.

17:42

I love the dance scene.

17:43

It's so weird, it's.

17:45

Just truly Yeah.

17:48

Then we don't see the audition, but we

17:50

see her coming out of it, and she hasn't

17:52

done well. The judges were like

17:54

pass and she's feeling defeated

17:56

and ready to head back to Georgia.

17:59

But then that man noticed her

18:01

earlier. His name is Antonio. He

18:04

approaches Nissi and Mickey and

18:06

tells them that his boss is looking for a dancer

18:08

for a music video. It pays ten thousand

18:10

dollars and provides room and board

18:13

in a mansion in Beverly Hills.

18:15

And you're like, you're being abducted.

18:17

You're being abducted, Like this

18:20

is what a scary proposal?

18:23

Yeah, and they're like, sounds

18:26

great. So Antonio

18:29

takes them to the mansion where

18:31

they meet this rich guy named

18:33

Isaac blakemore also his snooty

18:36

butler named Manly. Nissy

18:40

and Mickey get settled in at the

18:42

mansion. There's a bedet

18:45

scene where they don't know how a bidet

18:47

works.

18:47

Nineteen ninety seven comedy Montage.

18:50

Yes, my first time ever seeing a bidet

18:53

was this scene, and I didn't know what

18:55

a bidet was, and so the scene

18:57

I was still sort of like, so what is the little toilet?

18:59

Like? I still didn't understand like the humor

19:02

of the scene because I didn't know what a bidet was.

19:04

I still to this day.

19:06

I mean, I guess I've I've seen them

19:08

now, but I've never I've never

19:10

engaged.

19:11

I've never used one. I don't trust

19:13

them.

19:14

I believe that, you know, now there's consumer

19:16

bidets. You don't need to be in the one percent

19:18

to have a bidet. I know people are

19:21

evangelical about them.

19:22

I just don't know how you dry your

19:25

ass, after all.

19:26

That's my question. Too, because from

19:28

what I've read, it's like more

19:30

environmentally friendly and more hygienic

19:32

because they're not like using paper on your

19:34

butt, but your butt gets wet, so

19:37

wouldn't you have to use what are you using to dry

19:39

your butt?

19:39

I know someone who had like one of those consumer bidets

19:42

that you just like install in your toilet and

19:44

then yeah, they had a designated

19:46

butt towel. But then it's like,

19:49

so now your butt towels just hanging in your bathroom

19:51

with all your buttrooms all over it, and I don't care

19:54

how effective the bidet is. It's not killing

19:56

the bacteria from your ass.

19:58

It's just water.

20:00

And what if I'm your friend and I come over

20:02

and you're.

20:03

Accidentally touched the like what if you

20:05

think it's a hand towel and draw

20:07

your hands with it.

20:08

It's like pa mints, you

20:10

know how like yeah in the

20:12

urinals, you mean know, like

20:15

how anytime there's like those, like they're

20:17

delicious. Unfortunately, the mints, like outside

20:19

of bathrooms, are like at restaurants and

20:22

they there was like a test for how much

20:24

urine because Americans are gross

20:26

and don't wash their hands, and it was like

20:28

these are one

20:31

They're just calcified p and you're

20:33

like, oh no, so you can

20:35

never have them out of restaurant. If they're

20:37

just out raw, not wrapped,

20:39

you can't have them. There's pea in them.

20:41

Yeah, people are out here putting their unwashed,

20:44

urine soaped hands, raw dog

20:47

into a bowl of communal mints.

20:50

People.

20:51

There's science to back up peepee

20:54

hands and poop poo towels. It's

20:56

a six sad world we live in.

20:59

And food in your salons

21:01

and hair and your restaurants

21:04

just a mess. Don't do it,

21:07

okay. So then after the

21:09

bedet scene, they sit down

21:11

with Isaac, who reveals that he

21:14

isn't actually making a music video.

21:16

What he is looking for is a

21:18

woman to play a particular

21:20

part, which is that Isaac's

21:23

rich, elderly uncle who is dying of cancer.

21:26

His story is that he was

21:28

madly in love with this woman

21:31

named Lily, but he never got

21:33

to be with her or marry her because

21:36

he's white and she was black,

21:38

and his family forbid

21:40

their relationship. But now

21:43

that this uncle is on his deathbed, Isaac

21:45

wants to find a woman to pretend

21:48

to be Lily's granddaughter, and

21:50

so that's who he wants Nissi to

21:52

play, and Nissi and Mickey

21:54

are very touched by this story, so

21:57

Nissi agrees to do it.

21:59

You could already tell, well, I mean just from

22:01

like the I don't know the actor who

22:03

plays Isaac, but you can just tell that, like

22:05

he's up to no good based on how

22:08

he's like looking at people.

22:11

But already from the beginning, the

22:14

plan is too

22:16

weird to not be secretly evil.

22:18

Yeah, right, if they were remaking this movie,

22:21

he would be cast, well, pre allegations

22:24

he would be cast by Armie Hammer, like

22:26

a person in a movie that you're like, don't

22:28

trust him. He's bad. It's

22:31

not been revealed yet. You can just tell by his face.

22:33

Yes, I feel like Adam Brodie's

22:35

playing a lot of those parts these days. Yeah,

22:38

but maybe it's just because we're about to cover ready or not where

22:40

it's like he's a nice guy. Unless he also

22:42

did that in Promising Young Woman.

22:45

Yeah, he did it in American fiction,

22:47

right, Yeah, he plays like an agent or something,

22:50

yes.

22:50

Right, Like he plays just kind of like slimeballs.

22:53

Similar character in uh Jennifer's

22:55

Body too.

22:56

Yeah, oh my.

22:57

God, wow, Yeah, this is like

22:59

a.

23:00

A thing with him.

23:01

Yeah, it happens a lot in horror

23:04

movies where if you need

23:06

like a slimy white guy

23:09

in a thriller or a horror movie,

23:11

and you will and you will need that, you cast

23:13

either Adam Brody or Justin Long.

23:16

Wow, that's true. I wonder

23:18

how often they're like, Duke, you get out to play

23:21

devious short kings. We

23:24

don't know, we don't anyways.

23:26

Anyway, So the friends

23:28

meet the dying uncle, Don

23:30

Blake Moore played by Martin Landau.

23:33

Fun very fun at first.

23:35

He's like shocked and angry that they're there,

23:37

but then he quickly warms up

23:40

to Nissi and Mickey. They have

23:42

dinner together, but Mickey's like, what

23:44

the fuck is this boring chicken? So

23:47

she goes to the kitchen and whips up

23:49

some soul food and Don loves

23:52

it. She keeps making it for him for the

23:54

next few days, and it seems

23:56

like his health is improving,

23:59

although Manly the butler disapproves.

24:02

He still doesn't like the ladies.

24:04

This is such a great seat. I love a montage

24:06

of like a black woman is coming

24:09

in and taking charge and shaking things

24:11

up like This movie does

24:13

not spare on the montages, right

24:15

no, Oh my gosh.

24:17

It was kind of like, I mean, from a note

24:19

taking perspective, it was very helpful

24:21

because sometimes you're like, oh, nothing's gonna happen for

24:23

a minute. Cool, I can catch

24:26

up on my not It's great, great on my first blotch

24:28

uh huh.

24:29

So, yeah, Don is feeling better and

24:31

he even feels up to taking Nissie

24:33

and Mickey on a shopping spree. So then we

24:35

get a clothes trying on montage,

24:38

but nephew Isaac is

24:41

lurking nearby taking pictures

24:43

and it's clear that he's up to something. And

24:46

then he's talking on the phone with someone.

24:47

He's doing like a vaguely evil phone

24:50

call.

24:50

Yeah.

24:51

And then the actor, again, I don't know anything

24:53

about this actor, but he's kind of cracking me up with

24:55

the over the top evilness. Where his scene

24:57

like talking to someone on the phone being like, don't

25:00

we'll be very rich souon click,

25:02

and then it like just pans down to him and then

25:04

he goes, good, all

25:08

right, you're bad amazing

25:10

acting.

25:11

Yeah, it seems like he intends to

25:13

like set someone up or blackmail someone.

25:15

We're not really sure what the plan is. Meanwhile,

25:18

Mickey and that guy Antonio who

25:21

works at the estate. They're having a

25:24

secret affair, and Antonio claims

25:26

to be from a wealthy family in Italy

25:28

and he wants to spend all of his money on Mickey,

25:31

but he doesn't seem trustworthy either. He's

25:33

also up to something. Then

25:35

Don takes Nissi and Mickey

25:38

out to a fancy dinner and

25:41

they're trying to act sophisticated and classy,

25:43

but they keep seeing celebrities

25:46

and they're making a scene.

25:49

Then Don wants to know more

25:51

about his beloved Lily, so

25:54

Nissi like crams her mouth full

25:56

of food to avoid talking

25:58

about her. She kind of like makes some stuff up. You can't

26:00

even understand her. It's very funny. Then

26:03

back at the estate, Mickey and

26:05

Antonio are canoodling again, and

26:08

Antonio is like, I have a ring for you, but it's

26:10

in this safe, but I can't get it open,

26:12

and she tries to open the safe,

26:14

and it's clear that he's just trying to like get

26:17

her to put her fingerprints on

26:19

the safe to incriminate her.

26:21

Later, no, I was like, Micky, he's wearing

26:23

a leather glove.

26:24

Yeah. Yeah, they're canodling.

26:26

They're like laying in bed and she's like in a nighty

26:28

and she's like, why are you wearing these leather

26:31

gloves? And yeah, I

26:33

feel like Mickey would be smarter than that, you would

26:35

think.

26:36

There's a number of times where I's like,

26:38

these women are smart.

26:40

Like, yeah, why don't they

26:42

notice that they're being deceived?

26:44

Women be being deceived in

26:47

movies.

26:48

I mean not to victim blame these

26:50

women.

26:51

Although you know there's some equal opportunity

26:53

deception in this movie. The women

26:56

are are also deceiving Martin

26:58

Landau.

26:59

That's true.

27:00

It makes you think I'm not mad about it.

27:02

And also Martin Landau's not mad about it,

27:04

weirdly, and no, he's like very

27:06

down to be deceased. He's like, I've

27:08

got forty five minutes to Liz, you

27:10

know whatever.

27:11

He loves it.

27:12

He seems to.

27:13

It's his kink anyway. So later

27:15

that night, a burglar comes in and knocks

27:18

out Manly the butler, and it wakes up

27:20

Nissy and Mickey, so they come down and kick the

27:22

burglar's ass, and he turns

27:24

out to be Antonio, and he's in

27:26

cahoots with nephew Isaac,

27:29

who is trying to defraud his

27:31

uncle and take his money by claiming

27:33

that he is mentally unfit because

27:36

he had brought in two women from

27:38

the quote unquote ghetto who were

27:40

robbing him every night. This

27:43

is all explained by Don's

27:45

lawyer, Tracy Shaw played by Troy

27:47

Bayer aka the screenwriter of the movie,

27:50

and once this is all figured

27:52

out, Don offers Nissi and

27:54

Mickey each fifty thousand dollars

27:56

for their trouble, but they refuse,

27:59

saying that they're there because they want

28:01

to be there, which makes Don trust

28:03

them even more. He

28:05

takes them out dancing, but

28:08

the guilt of lying to Don about

28:11

being the granddaughter of his beloved

28:13

Lily is really weighing on Nissi,

28:16

so she writes a letter to Don and

28:18

plans to give it to him

28:20

and then like leave the estate shortly

28:22

thereafter. But before they

28:24

can do that, the butler manly,

28:27

who has warmed up to Nissi

28:29

and Mickey.

28:30

Also.

28:30

I thought that was a fun subversion, the butler

28:33

being nice. You always expect him

28:35

to be dastardly.

28:36

Yeah, and he is at first, but then he's

28:38

like, wow, we like the Sam soap opera.

28:41

Let's be best friends. It didn't take much

28:45

kind of love that he has arranged

28:48

for Nissi and Mickey's boyfriends

28:51

Ali and James to come

28:53

to the estate, and these

28:55

guys are trying to get their act together so that

28:57

they can like deserve these

29:00

women. But meanwhile, Don

29:03

suddenly collapses and he's

29:05

rushed to the hospital.

29:06

He dances himself to death. The

29:10

issue of his health is a

29:12

little all over the place of the movie, because we're introduced

29:15

to him as if he does not have a lot of

29:17

time to live, but then he's very sprightly for

29:19

a while. He's briefly brought back

29:21

to full health by Mickey's

29:24

cooking ostensibly yeah, and

29:26

then has a very steep decline.

29:28

It's very like movie health.

29:30

Right exactly.

29:32

Yeah.

29:33

So then Nisi goes to the hospital

29:36

and she's trying to tell Don

29:38

that she's not really Lily's granddaughter,

29:40

but he dies before she can get the words

29:42

out, and then the attorney, Tracy

29:45

informs them that Don already

29:48

knew that she wasn't Lily's granddaughter

29:50

because he was aware that Lily never had any

29:52

children. He just cared about

29:55

Nissi and McKee out of the

29:57

kindness of his heart. He just enjoyed

29:59

the company. Then Tracy

30:02

is like, by the way, here's Don's

30:04

last will and testament in which

30:06

he leaves everything to his baps

30:09

okaya.

30:11

A thing he made up. It's three

30:13

minutes before passing away, which I just feel

30:15

like we cannot overlook. Yeah,

30:18

I think that there's an argument that,

30:21

like there's sort of a finndom element

30:24

to mister Blakemore because.

30:27

And I love it. I've never seen anything

30:29

like it in the movie where he's.

30:30

Just like knowingly being deceived,

30:33

but he's like, let's party, let's let's

30:36

have fun. In the end, he

30:38

tries to give them one hundred thousand dollars

30:41

collectively at one point, like hmmm,

30:43

he's just kind of down to clown that

30:46

mister Blakemore.

30:47

I kind of get it, Like he's got money. His

30:49

nephew is like trying

30:51

to take advantage of him. I think he's

30:53

got money and he knows he's about to die, so it's

30:56

like I may as well having a good time,

30:58

like eating soul food and dancing at the club with

31:00

these women.

31:01

That's how I did go out.

31:03

Yeah, I respect it. I mean, and it's like,

31:05

I'm sure if we knew more about him, because he runs

31:07

a fabric business, a textile business. I'm

31:09

like, for sure, you know, if he's that rich,

31:12

he's exploiting someone. Yeah, but this is

31:14

a Cinderella story and he is

31:17

the benevolent rich guy

31:19

who's kind of getting Finn dambed. I

31:21

don't hate it.

31:22

Right, Speaking of Cinderella,

31:25

Natalie decel Red is in

31:27

Brandy Cinderella also from this year,

31:29

from nineteen ninety seven or was that a

31:31

different year?

31:32

I believe so, Yeah, yeah, this

31:35

is nineteen ninety seven. She plays one of the

31:37

stepsisters, Minerva.

31:39

Right, She's so great, Like, I

31:41

feel like she never got her due. But

31:43

I feel like if you were watching black

31:45

sitcoms in the nineties, you've seen her in everything.

31:49

She was such a gem and I just, yeah,

31:51

it makes me sad that she's no longer with us because

31:53

her current would probably be really popping today.

31:56

Yeah, I remember her from Eve

31:58

he would ever watch, Yes, yes, even

32:01

Cinderella also before we cut

32:03

the brake. Yeah, because Natalie des cel Reads

32:06

no longer with us, halle Berry. I didn't

32:08

see this at the time she passed away, but halle

32:10

Berry posted like a really sweet tribute

32:12

to her when she passed.

32:14

And I want to share it.

32:15

Really quick.

32:16

Yeah, she said.

32:17

Quote.

32:17

Natalie represented actual black women,

32:19

not what black women are perceived to be. For

32:22

that, she was often underrated, passed over,

32:24

deprived of the platform she truly deserved.

32:26

But her light continues to shine through the people who grew

32:29

up watching her, the people who knew her best, and those of

32:31

us who loved her. I'll love you forever, my sweet

32:33

friends. So nice,

32:35

beautiful, and you can just feel in this movie,

32:38

even when the movie is weird and kind of

32:40

off the rails, that like they're having fun.

32:43

They're definitely having a

32:45

hell of a time.

32:46

Oh yeah, anyways, Natalie des

32:48

Sell, we love her. So

32:50

the movie ends with Niscy

32:53

and Mickey inheriting Don's

32:56

fortune. Nephew Isaac is there

32:58

being like what.

33:00

The heck no?

33:03

And then this new fortune

33:05

they have enabled Nissi and Mickey

33:08

to open up their salon slash

33:10

restaurant in Beverly Hills called

33:12

Lily's with a Z. Also,

33:15

Ali and James have opened up

33:17

their car service. Also, Dennis Rodman

33:20

is.

33:20

There as a cameo nineteen ninety

33:22

seven.

33:23

They all live happily ever after

33:27

that's the movie. Let's take a quick break

33:30

and we'll come back to discuss

33:41

and we're back.

33:43

We're back.

33:44

Maybe where shall

33:46

we start? I mean, Bridget, if you have

33:48

a strong instinct, I feel like we've already also sort

33:50

of started to talk about how this movie was received.

33:53

I think that's a good place to start. So I

33:56

felt this way when I watched it, and it was even

33:58

more clear to me be watching it today, which

34:00

is that this movie at

34:02

times, I can understand how people think, like, oh,

34:05

it's making fun of these working class black women.

34:07

However, to me, this is a movie

34:09

about black women who have goals

34:12

and dreams and who like can really

34:15

visualize and do the work to get

34:17

them to those dreams. And the

34:19

thing that gets them to their goals and their dreams

34:21

is like their creativity, their

34:24

ingenuity, right. Like there's a scene

34:26

when they first get into the car, the

34:28

limo when they're going to the mansion and

34:31

they take off their wigs and they're gonna do a whole different

34:33

hairdew and it's like that's creativity,

34:35

right, Like. I don't think the movie is trying

34:37

to make fun of that. I think the movie is trying to be like

34:40

the reason why these women are the kind of women

34:42

who would take a flight to La to try to get

34:44

on Heavy D's music video

34:47

and say yes to these authors that seem

34:49

kind of outlandish. Is because

34:51

they are creative. Is because they like possess

34:54

these qualities that are the reason why

34:56

they address the way they do and also are the reason

34:58

when they go for their goals. I

35:00

see this as a movie about dreamers

35:02

and the creativity and foresight that

35:05

it takes to really architect a life for yourself

35:07

based on that dream.

35:08

Hell yeah, yeah. There is so

35:10

much that was like lost in the way

35:12

that the movie was received because they're

35:14

super motivated. There's a

35:16

piece I found that was in Refinery twenty nine

35:19

back in twenty eighteen, Remember then No

35:23

by An Cohen that sort of examines

35:26

the critical response versus how she

35:28

felt, which is very similar to how you feel, Bridget.

35:30

And also, I mean it's it reads.

35:32

Very clearly, and it feels really condescending

35:35

the way that this criticism comes

35:38

off, because, in like the Ebert reviews,

35:40

the motivation and how

35:43

active they are in the story is

35:45

not mentioned. The fact that they are

35:47

motivated and have dreams aren't

35:49

mentioned. I think that the way it's dealt in the movie

35:51

can be a little like Uneven and

35:53

the way that the movie prescribes their ending is weird.

35:56

Although I am glad they got their salon restaurant.

35:58

That probably wasn't a good business

36:00

idea, but

36:03

that whole sort of saga is

36:07

fascinating. And what a Cohen sort of digs

36:09

into here is this movie

36:12

is clearly a part of the

36:14

very nineties rags to riches

36:17

women's story, but it's one of the few

36:19

rags to riches story about black women,

36:22

and it's received as I mean, and I

36:24

bravely still have not seen Pretty Women

36:27

in my life, so I have

36:29

to take everyone else's word for how

36:32

much this movie, especially in the montage,

36:34

just kind of reflects things that happen in Pretty Women.

36:37

What Ann Cohen is arguing is that the

36:39

reception of this movie is when Halle

36:41

Berry and Natalie des Seller doing it,

36:43

it's portrayed as trashy. When

36:46

Julia Roberts is doing the same thing

36:48

on Rodeo Drive, it's presented as

36:51

unbelievably charming, and

36:53

how that is mask off racist in

36:56

the same era of sleepover

36:58

movies, and like.

37:00

In Pretty Woman, I hadn't clocked

37:03

that comparison, but I think it's a good one. It's

37:05

funny I was just listening to Tina Fey

37:07

on Las Culturista's and she was like, when

37:09

I was watching Pretty Woman, me and my

37:11

cousin would be like, are we the only people

37:13

who have realized that, like, as a sex

37:16

worker, it's probably going great this time

37:18

because it's Richard Gear, but there's probably other stories

37:20

that you're not hearing from her work that are like

37:22

maybe not so great and not so rack.

37:25

But yeah, I think that Pretty Woman example

37:28

is an interesting one because

37:30

it's like who's come up story

37:33

do we celebrate? And who's come up story

37:36

is like just like fodder for laughs,

37:39

I guess, And yeah, I just I almost

37:42

think that what some of these reviewers

37:44

who didn't like the movie, not all of them, but

37:46

what some of them are actually saying is like, if

37:48

you are a working class woman who

37:51

dresses flashy and has really long nails

37:53

and your indicator Georgia, it

37:55

is absurd that you would think you could

37:57

go to LA and like dance at a heavy D

37:59

video or like make it or have some sort of

38:01

dream. It almost seems like what they're actually saying

38:04

in their mask off moments in these reviews

38:06

is like that premise is what

38:08

is unbelievable, not that the

38:10

movie is like making fun of them

38:12

or whatever. It almost kind of reveals the way

38:14

that they're kind of like putting a negativity on that.

38:16

Does that make sense?

38:17

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, it's

38:20

so weird reading them where it's

38:22

clear that like Roger Ebert feels

38:24

that he is doing a righteous

38:27

thing while still clearly

38:29

putting in a lot of his own biases.

38:31

And it's also like, it's also fine to

38:33

not love a sleepover a movie. I

38:35

think that there's also a gendered aspect to

38:37

this, but it's far more likely

38:41

for again the Pretty Woman in comparison,

38:43

because I was just looking at the original marketing

38:45

for this movie, and it's very clear in

38:48

how they're marketing baps who they want

38:50

to go see it, because the tagline is these

38:52

pretty women are Clueless, and

38:55

you're like, okay, well even

38:57

say in the tage, yeah,

39:00

they drop two similar movies

39:02

in the tag line.

39:03

You're like, okay, so this is like all the same thing,

39:05

but movies like.

39:06

Pretty Women and Clueless are far more

39:08

likely to be you know, escalated

39:10

to like, well, this is actually like a

39:12

pretty.

39:13

Good movie quote unquote, and

39:16

yeah.

39:16

That's just racist and unfair and

39:19

I don't even think this is like an amazing movie,

39:21

but it's not what it's like. Holding

39:23

it to that standard is silly.

39:26

Right, Yeah, I completely agree, And the fact of

39:28

the matter is that, like it has endured

39:30

culturally, and so again, I love

39:32

this movie. I'm not gonna pretend like it's the

39:34

most groundbreaking, the best movie ever.

39:37

I had my issues with it, but the fact that

39:39

it has maintained this cultural

39:41

legacy shows that there was something going

39:43

on. Like I even read that they were thinking about turning

39:46

it into a stage adaptation,

39:48

which if they did that, it would be a hit,

39:50

no doubt. In my mind, it would kill.

39:54

It's a Cinderella story. It literally is

39:56

a Cinderella story. There's so many

39:58

really good, like be fun

40:01

nineties rags to riches stories, and this should

40:03

be more discussed. I hope

40:05

that this movie experiences resurgence,

40:08

and that would be the perfect way to do it. Is

40:10

like this movie is screaming

40:12

to be adapted into a musical.

40:14

Yeah, And I do think like there are

40:17

topics that are dealt with in the movie with humor

40:20

that are like very real

40:22

pieces of cultural discourse in the black

40:25

community, like the montage when Mickey

40:27

is making the food and they're like, oh,

40:29

the nutrition is said that this food clogs

40:31

the arteries and she's like, no, not the way that

40:34

I make it. And I know it's played

40:36

for a laugh, but like there are

40:38

today like conversations about soul

40:40

food and whether or not it's healthy and this idea that

40:43

like, oh, well, collar greens are very

40:45

similar to kale, but one of those foods

40:47

enjoy is like a connotation of being

40:49

health food and one doesn't, even though they're like practically

40:51

the same thing. That is a very real

40:53

cultural conversation that has endured today, and

40:56

the movie like plays with that and

40:58

has a discourse about that in a humorous way.

41:00

Albeit but like I think there are more serious

41:03

things going on in this film than some

41:05

of these critics may be clocked.

41:07

Which is like part of what makes

41:09

Robert Townsend such an amazing filmmaker.

41:11

Because we covered Hollywood Shuffle

41:13

of Gosh a couple.

41:14

Of years ago. Now yeah, oh nice, But

41:17

that's like what he's great at

41:20

is like finding a way to talk about hyper

41:22

specific like have these conversations

41:24

in a comedy montage versus like a

41:26

very didactic, serious thing.

41:29

Like it just feels very Robert townsendy, but

41:31

I wanted to just share Troy Bayer's

41:34

feelings on the adaptation,

41:37

partially just because I love drama and

41:39

because you're messy, because I

41:42

do love reading about drama, and I

41:44

think it is really interesting where like this is the

41:46

sort of quote that you always want

41:48

the confirmation of, but

41:50

you very rarely actually get. And it

41:52

just feels like a kind of a good lesson for writers

41:54

in general, because it seems like what the issue

41:57

ultimately was with Troy Byer

42:00

and Robert Townsend is that Robert Townsend

42:02

is generally a writer director

42:04

and seemed to be on set very

42:06

comfortable adjusting stuff as he went

42:09

because he was adjusting his own writing. But in this case,

42:11

this is the first movie he directed that was

42:13

not written by him, and

42:15

it seems like he used that same approach

42:18

of like, well, I don't quite like how

42:20

that works, We're going to adjust it. That ended

42:22

up, in Troy Bayer's opinion, kind of meaningfully

42:25

affecting what she had written,

42:27

which is an interesting, hyper specific

42:30

kind of problem that I don't think indicates

42:32

any ill will on Robert Townsend's part, but it's

42:34

just interesting. So Troy Byer

42:37

gave an interview the year after this

42:39

came out, as she was promoting a movie

42:41

that she had written and directed after being

42:43

unhappy with how BAPS had gone, called

42:46

Let's Talk About Sex. So here's

42:48

her quote. When I saw the final

42:51

cut, I was so devastated because I really believed

42:53

that my words had not honestly made it onto

42:55

the screen. The director was a writer director

42:57

himself, and it was the first time he directed someone else

43:00

is writing. He took the liberty of changing

43:02

stuff as he shot the film. At the end of

43:04

the day, when I saw the film, I hated it. It

43:06

was really embarrassed, and it was too late for me to take

43:08

my name off the picture. Then I got killed

43:10

by critics.

43:11

Me the writer.

43:13

I thought, I'm just going to take the money from this awful

43:15

experience and put it into my own film. I'm

43:17

going to direct it and make sure my words make

43:19

it to the screen. If the critics

43:21

try to kill me, now, there's nothing they can say that's

43:23

going to hurt me, because I know I did my very best.

43:25

Those are my words on screen, and I stand

43:27

by them. I took the money from BAPS

43:30

to make my movie Wow,

43:33

which is also I mean, I don't

43:35

know I'm on. I think team everybody

43:37

here. This is also like Troy Byer's

43:39

first screenwriting credit. She started

43:42

as an actor. She has since

43:45

gotten a master's degree

43:47

in eco liberation and community

43:49

psychology and a doctorate in

43:51

clinical psychology.

43:53

Wow, she's written like, she's.

43:55

Truly very very interesting. She's

43:58

written self help books. She

44:00

was married to the

44:02

guy that produced all of the Saw movies

44:04

for fifteen years. You're just like iconic.

44:08

I know, know, I was pretty thrilled

44:10

to find out that there is a direct BAPS

44:12

to Saw connection, But

44:15

I don't know. I mean, I don't think that that takes

44:18

away from the movie, because

44:20

it did just seem like a creative chafing

44:22

and kind of like a lesson that a lot of writers

44:25

learn and why a lot of writers become

44:27

directors is because that shit will

44:29

happen.

44:30

But I just wanted to share that.

44:33

And also, she's in the movie, which is wild.

44:35

She's in the movie, so I wonder if she like observed

44:38

scenes where she's like, this isn't how I

44:40

wrote this.

44:41

Oh God, what are you doing?

44:42

Robert?

44:44

Like my skin crawl? I'd be so stressed.

44:46

There's like things that I'm credited

44:49

as having written and I've seen the episode

44:51

and been like, huh, well, I

44:53

guess I wrote that.

44:54

Does it happen a lot in the biz.

44:57

Yeah, it's definitely been my

45:00

And I don't mean like there's nothing, but

45:02

like there's you know, especially in like

45:05

sitcom writing, where there's like jokes that

45:07

were there that you're like, I didn't write that or I

45:09

don't know. So anytime someone's like, well the writing of

45:11

this, the writer should have been thinking, I'm like just

45:14

putting it out there, very likely they did

45:16

not write that. And there's also jokes

45:18

I've really enjoyed that I've been credited with that

45:21

absolutely were not me.

45:23

So it goes both ways. Yeah, it just goes.

45:25

You do end up getting credit that you don't deserve as

45:27

well.

45:28

So let's

45:30

take another quick break and we'll come back

45:32

for more discussion, and

45:44

we're back. Something I really appreciate

45:46

about this movie is that

45:49

it centers to black

45:52

female friends. There's so few movies

45:54

about I mean female friendship in general

45:57

and then specifically black female friendship.

45:59

And it feels like a really real,

46:02

authentic friendship because you see

46:04

them supporting each other, they're lifting

46:06

each other up. But it's not as though they're like always

46:09

agreeing on everything. Like we see them disagree

46:11

about how to handle things, we see

46:13

them trying to hold each other accountable

46:15

for something, usually how they're conducting

46:18

themselves around a celebrity. Yes,

46:22

it's like them, you know, they're challenging each

46:24

other, they're disagreeing, but they're

46:26

also ultimately just like very

46:29

loving and supportive of each other. And

46:31

they're so funny together. Like, I

46:33

love to see women be funny in

46:35

movies because it seldom is

46:38

allowed to happen because until like pretty

46:40

recently, it felt like women were not ever

46:42

written to be the funny characters in

46:45

comedy movies. They were like the Killjoys,

46:47

the shrews, because they were often movies

46:50

written by men who were bringing in

46:52

all of their biases. It's

46:54

usually the men who get to be the funny ones

46:56

in comedy movies. But like Halle

46:59

Berry and Natalie desseil Read are clowning

47:03

in almost every scene, like the physical humor,

47:06

the jokes, Like everything is just

47:08

so funny.

47:10

It's so goofy. I

47:12

love it. And the fact I feel like a

47:14

lot of that is likely attributable

47:16

to the fact that a black woman wrote

47:19

this.

47:19

Yeah for sure.

47:20

Yeah, and their friendship

47:22

is so supportive.

47:24

I like that. I feel like it's very often in a friendship

47:27

movie where you get like one front

47:29

turns on the other and it's like, I'm gonna have this

47:31

come up by myself and fuck you.

47:33

It's like Raven during the Cheetah

47:36

Girls. Yeah, she's

47:38

like, I'm the star. But

47:41

even when the other one is not making

47:43

great choices, they are always

47:45

supportive of each other. There's never a question that,

47:48

like one person's success

47:50

is not going to be the other person's success.

47:52

And I think that that's really beautiful

47:55

thing that, Yeah, you just like rarely get

47:57

in a movie about women, because we're so conditioned

48:00

to think that women will turn on each other.

48:02

Yeah, they'll be petty, they'll

48:04

backstab each other, Yeah, all that kind

48:06

of stuff, because those are the stories that are written by

48:08

men and that's

48:10

what we're used to seeing. But yeah, there's never

48:13

any moment like that. They're

48:16

just there for each other every step

48:18

of the way. I also want to note that there

48:20

is more body diversity in this movie

48:23

than you normally see. Because Mickey

48:25

is fat, there's no attention drawn

48:28

to that. It's just completely normalized

48:31

a very normal part of her character. I

48:33

wonder if there is an argument to be made

48:35

that, like she's the one who

48:38

is like the cook, she cooks

48:41

soul food, and you know, the

48:43

thin one does hair and is like more

48:45

focused on like a kind of beauty

48:48

oriented thing, and if there's

48:50

some kind of like veiled thing

48:53

there. But I think you'd almost kind

48:55

of have to read into that to like reach

48:57

that conclusion, because at least on like

48:59

the surface or the way it's presented, it just like all

49:02

feels very normalized, at

49:04

least to me.

49:05

Yeah, I would agree, and I would also even

49:07

go further and say that like in

49:09

the nineties and today, it's so easy

49:12

to be like, oh, well, halle Berry is the thin

49:14

one, and so she has the fleshed

49:16

out in her world. She has the romantic partner.

49:19

But they're both kind of given like

49:21

they both have partners. I don't like either of their partners,

49:23

but they both have like a romantic arc.

49:26

And I did notice there were a couple of places

49:28

where it would be very easy to

49:30

have Mickey be the

49:33

one who was doing physical things, like the

49:35

scene with the bidet it splashes up

49:37

in halle Berry's face, and I think in a lot

49:39

of movies it was like, oh haha,

49:41

have the funny fat friend do something really

49:43

physical, And this movie takes I

49:45

think takes intention to lean away from

49:47

that a little bit at times.

49:50

For sure, it's like equal opportunity slapstick,

49:53

physical right comedy. Also, I

49:55

think in a lot of movies it would

49:57

have been the case where the

50:00

you know, thin, traditionally beautiful

50:02

by Western beauty standards character

50:05

would be the protagonist and

50:07

then her friend would be like the quote unquote sidekick

50:10

who doesn't have any kind of subplot of her

50:12

own or any scenes where it's

50:14

just focusing on her. But she also has

50:16

that like separate love

50:18

story kind of thing with Antonio, who

50:20

of course ends up being like awful

50:22

and desaitful. But we see

50:24

a number of scenes where the focus

50:27

of the scene is on Mickey and

50:29

Nissi is nowhere to be seen.

50:31

Right, and there's like never any I don't

50:33

know, I feel like often when a fat character,

50:35

especially during this era, is given a love

50:37

interest, it's like in this condescending

50:41

way, but like you also just

50:44

have Natalie to sell and

50:46

she fucking rocks and.

50:48

His course, yeah she's the

50:50

cutest.

50:51

But it does feel like rare. And

50:53

again, the movie is written

50:55

by a woman like there's

50:58

nothing for me at least that zim

51:00

Mickey's story that feels like a reflection

51:02

of her body. I do feel like, even

51:05

though we have dual protagonists

51:07

here, that Nissie is ultimately

51:10

more so the protagonist than

51:12

Mickey. Yeah, because we

51:15

get like, I don't know, it felt a little uneven

51:17

to me, which doesn't necessarily

51:19

feel pointed. Also, halle

51:21

Berry's.

51:22

Famous, and I think

51:24

she was quite famous by this point, right, So.

51:27

It's funny that you would ask to like she was

51:29

getting famous. But at this time

51:31

we had not sort of accepted that halle Berry

51:33

was a star star, and so she had

51:35

done interesting the

51:38

Spike Lee movie Jungle Fever, where she

51:40

plays Samuel L. Jackson's girlfriend and

51:42

she's like heavily drug addicted and it's

51:44

very sad. She's in that movie Losing

51:46

Isaiah, where she's another person who

51:48

has kind of a sad trajectory in the movie.

51:50

She's in The Flint Stone.

51:52

That's right, she's the like sexy

51:54

secretary alongside Billy Zane. She

51:57

turns out to be like the bad guy in that movie.

51:59

Not to spoil Hockley, Yes,

52:02

and her character's name is Sharon

52:04

stone seteeny

52:07

amazing.

52:08

She's also on Boomerang in ninety

52:10

two.

52:11

So she's like famous but maybe not

52:13

leading lady famous yet. Is that where we're

52:15

at?

52:15

That's what I would put it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's sort

52:17

of getting there. But like I

52:20

think that if there was like a star attached

52:22

to this movie, it was halle Berry.

52:24

Right, because I was like, where is halle Berry

52:26

in her career at this point? Okay, so she's not like, it's not

52:29

Peek halle Berry quite yet.

52:31

Correct.

52:31

I feel like that's maybe early two thousands either way.

52:34

Yeah, I feel like Nissi does kind of get the edge

52:36

in terms of the attention that

52:38

the movie pays and think it like clicked

52:41

for me meaningfully, even though it's

52:43

like it's not like Mickey is in it

52:45

less, but Nissi's story kind of takes

52:47

precedence more. Her relationship with mister

52:49

Blake Moore is closer and

52:51

the movie puts more emphasis on it,

52:54

and her relationship with her

52:57

boyfriend from home is given

52:59

way more president because when Mickey's

53:01

boyfriend comes back, James, you're sort of

53:03

like, who is this guy again?

53:05

But we've been hearing about Nissy's boyfriend

53:07

the whole time.

53:08

True.

53:09

In that scene in the car, I was like, they're

53:11

gonna do it, They're gonna do it. Where

53:13

she's like I've been in love with someone from day one.

53:15

I was like, I've only ever seen this man

53:17

yell at you.

53:18

Yeah, no, No, the.

53:21

Time to talk about how much I hate the boyfriends,

53:24

Yeah, lay into them. So

53:27

I like a lot about this movie, But the thing I

53:29

cannot stand is the boyfriends

53:31

and the scene at the end. I feel like this comes up

53:33

in movies that y'all talk about a lot, where Mickey

53:36

and Nissi have this like trajectory

53:39

where they learn a lot about themselves, they have a

53:41

lot of developments all of that. Meanwhile,

53:44

all Nisy's boyfriend does is, I guess, get

53:46

his driver's license and cut his hair

53:48

and that like that's meant to be like,

53:50

oh he is good

53:53

enough for me now. Poor Mickey, her

53:55

boyfriend doesn't do anything but cry and be like

53:57

I want to take you out to dinner and then fall

53:59

into a As far as we know, he has no

54:02

character arc, no development. He has just come back

54:05

and is just crying at.

54:06

Her, and he also like insults

54:08

her multiple points.

54:09

I think he's the only example I don't

54:11

well, actually which boyfriend was it. It's

54:13

either her boyfriend or Niezy's boyfriend in

54:16

the Club Winner's Still in Georgia

54:19

that like calls her a heifer and

54:21

like is like, that's the only example

54:23

I could find in the movie that like her

54:26

like sizes commented on in any way,

54:28

and it's by someone that loves her

54:30

question mark like hate it.

54:32

Fuck.

54:34

I think what's going on here is

54:36

a trope that was like very popular in the nineties.

54:38

It's still a thing now, but like, I think we're getting

54:40

away from it, which is like, it is

54:43

much better to be just with somebody

54:45

than single, right. I think that either of these

54:47

two women, especially at the end when they get the money,

54:50

would be much better off without either of these two

54:52

scrubs. But I think in the universe of this movie,

54:54

they're like, oh, well, better

54:57

to have somebody who calls you a heifer than nobody,

54:59

And yeah, I just I hate that so

55:01

much. They would be much better off without either

55:04

of those guys.

55:05

Yes, for sure. I don't know why

55:07

they're they're at all, or

55:11

if they need to be there at the beginning

55:13

to signify like these women

55:15

don't have a full understanding

55:17

of their worth yet. But

55:20

then they learn that and they learn

55:22

that they're better off without these guys, and they

55:24

dump them and then they're written out of the movie for

55:26

the rest of the movie. But why do they come back

55:28

and why do they have like a redemption arc?

55:31

And I think it's implied that, like the

55:33

cars in their car service business that

55:35

they start up are the same cars from the

55:38

estate, so they just like get those

55:40

cars for free, and then

55:42

they're like, here's our business now, and it's like,

55:44

no, you guys don't deserve any of

55:46

this. You treat your girlfriends poorly, and

55:49

you need to get the fuck out of here.

55:50

Yes, like the girls had an arc

55:52

that led to them getting the money, so presumably

55:55

the guys are just taking some of

55:57

their money to start their and the cars to

56:00

start their business, which was lofty to

56:02

begin with. And we're meant to swoon like I

56:04

don't I don't like it. Y'all can keep that it

56:07

stinks. Yeah.

56:08

No, that was really really frustrating,

56:10

And even with the way that their

56:12

loser coded feels also very

56:15

like kind.

56:15

Of entrenched in class presentation

56:18

too, because really.

56:21

All that's changed when

56:23

niece's boyfriend whose name escapes me and

56:26

will continue to that's okay when

56:28

he no h make

56:30

his boyfriend al Ali. When Ali comes

56:32

back, all that's really changed is how

56:35

he's presenting himself. He's presenting himself

56:37

in a more upper class quote unquote respectable

56:39

way. But it's like, yeah, that doesn't change

56:41

how you have treated her this entire

56:44

time. And it feels like this sort of

56:46

other side of a Cinderella come up narrative

56:49

where it's like if a guy learns how

56:51

to dress differently

56:55

like they're richer, then all

56:57

is forgiven and it implies

57:00

that like that makes him a better

57:02

person, and he does treat her better once

57:04

he's wearing nicer clothes. It's

57:06

just like nith.

57:08

Very nineties mentality.

57:11

Yeah, there is like a thing

57:13

that happens within the universe of the film with

57:15

Mickey and Nissi too,

57:17

where as the film goes on, their

57:20

clothes and their hair and their nails and their teeth

57:22

get like less and less and less outlandish.

57:25

You might be like, oh, well, they're in Beverly Hills,

57:27

so they're just and they go shopping, so they're you know,

57:30

learning how to fit in with where they're at. But

57:32

within the universe of the film. I do

57:34

have a question of, like, well, is

57:37

the film trying to be like, oh, the way they were dressed at the

57:39

beginning is bad, and now that

57:41

they're dressed more conservative, it's good.

57:43

And her boyfriend cut his perm and

57:45

so that's good, and now they are a match. Because

57:48

again I recognize that the way

57:50

that they dress in the beginning is like over the top,

57:52

but like, I don't think it's bad, and I

57:54

don't think it's like says something about who they are.

57:57

And I wonder if the movie is maybe saying something

57:59

different, Yeah, I'm.

58:00

With you on this journey

58:03

with you, because I mean up until that point

58:05

where the ending, also, all of the stuff

58:07

about their dreams coming true happens during the credits,

58:09

and you're like why why why? But

58:12

yeah, like that aesthetic change felt

58:16

pointed when that was like something

58:18

I up to that point had really liked

58:20

about the movie was even though they are

58:22

deceiving, mister Blake Moore.

58:24

I mean, rich white men should

58:27

be tricked.

58:29

It's truly a victimist crime. He likes it,

58:31

and he yeah, it turns him on. So whatever,

58:35

Like it seems like everyone

58:37

is okay with the deception that they're involved

58:39

with even though there's like brief you know, just speaking

58:41

to like the kind of random unevenness of the

58:43

movie where halle Berry is like racked with guilt in

58:45

some scenes and then other scenes she's like my whatever,

58:48

Like I'm on the side of my whatever.

58:50

But either way, like outside of that

58:53

sort of plot contrivance,

58:55

they're themselves for the whole movie. They're

58:57

not like adjusting who

59:00

are They're not I think, outside of like a

59:02

few kind of jokes that again

59:04

I thought was interesting and I

59:06

didn't miss that they didn't get into it more. But like halle

59:08

Berry has like an etiquette book, and etiquette

59:11

books are so entrenched in how

59:13

to act like a respectable

59:15

white woman, and that's

59:17

just what that whole cottage industry

59:20

is, especially the further

59:22

back in time you go. But that's

59:24

dropped immediately and they're themselves

59:26

the whole movie, and they are appreciated

59:29

for being themselves. And so to see that little

59:32

aesthetic change at the end felt like, well,

59:34

they were like loved and accepted for who they were.

59:39

Yeah, it feels like the movie doesn't kind

59:41

of misses an opportunity to comment on

59:43

the fact that like, yes, they feel

59:45

the pressure to adhere to this like standard

59:47

of propriety that is

59:50

very much put forth by like wealthy

59:53

white society, and that

59:55

they're like trying to adhere

59:57

to it. Either from an etiquette point of view.

1:00:00

There's like scenes where someone says,

1:00:03

like, oh, how are you,

1:00:05

and then like Mickey responds and

1:00:07

like the way that she traditionally would,

1:00:09

and then Nissie cuts in to be

1:00:12

like, no, we're doing very well,

1:00:14

thank you, like in a very like proper

1:00:16

kind of way. But yeah, they usually

1:00:18

abandoned that sort of like etiquette

1:00:21

propriety stuff that they were trying

1:00:23

to learn and then they just behave like themselves. But

1:00:26

as far as like they're esthetic choices, which

1:00:28

is like one of the most memorable

1:00:30

things about their characters, and like

1:00:32

the poster is like very much like look

1:00:34

at them and their flashy outfits and they're wacky

1:00:37

hair jews and stuff like that. That gets more

1:00:39

and more toned down throughout the movie, and

1:00:42

I feel like the movie

1:00:45

doesn't fully comment on like, ye,

1:00:48

well, why are they like leaning

1:00:50

into adhering to these

1:00:52

like standards of propriety

1:00:55

when that's not who they

1:00:57

are, Like, that's not how they want to present

1:00:59

themselves. And it just sort of like, yeah,

1:01:01

well they're just doing it the

1:01:04

end. So I wish there had been

1:01:06

more like thoughtful examination of

1:01:08

that.

1:01:08

Yeah, And I think that their aesthetic choices

1:01:10

are such a big part of this movie

1:01:13

and something that I was really and I would

1:01:15

also want for the movie to

1:01:17

sort of take stock of that a little bit

1:01:19

differently, the same as you. And I also like

1:01:21

a quote that was looming large in my mind

1:01:23

when I was rewatching this was from this fashion

1:01:26

designer Narsha Willis, who used to

1:01:28

do these shirts that say ghetto until

1:01:30

proven fashionable because you're

1:01:33

meant to think that these outfits are outlandish

1:01:35

and over the top, but if they were wearing

1:01:37

them today, like on TikTok or

1:01:39

on Instagram, they would absolutely kill.

1:01:41

And so my god, yeah would

1:01:44

they like kill?

1:01:46

And so I do think like it

1:01:48

goes back to what I was saying about, like when

1:01:50

I saw this movie as a youth, to

1:01:52

me, it felt like, uh, sometimes

1:01:55

over the top celebration of

1:01:57

the ways that sometimes these fashion

1:01:59

choices can be so creative, so

1:02:02

like on another level, so future

1:02:04

forward, just so doing their own

1:02:06

creative, distinct different thing that certainly

1:02:09

took creative know how to get there, and

1:02:11

today in twenty twenty four, that is like

1:02:13

even more salient, but within the universe

1:02:15

of the film. Again, I agree with you, Caitlin. I

1:02:18

don't know that they are aware

1:02:20

of the ways in which people like me are

1:02:22

watching it and being like, oh my god, there's trendsetters,

1:02:24

you know. Yeah, right.

1:02:26

It feels like a very like having it both

1:02:29

ways, where it's like the movie obviously knows

1:02:31

that they look incredible, but

1:02:33

it's also undercut by like, but this

1:02:36

is like can't be quote unquote

1:02:38

like low class incredible, where you're like, no, this

1:02:40

is like really influential

1:02:42

fashion. And the outfits at the end,

1:02:44

you know, they look great because they're gorgeous,

1:02:47

but what is that that's a

1:02:49

pantsuit?

1:02:50

It's not them.

1:02:51

Yeah, it's like a.

1:02:52

Hillary Clinton outfit, you know, like it's I

1:02:54

don't I don't love it.

1:02:56

It's especially frustrating considering that, like so

1:02:58

much of American

1:03:01

pop culture, which permeates

1:03:03

like global pop culture as

1:03:06

far as just clothes and

1:03:09

media and all that kind of stuff

1:03:12

is invented by black people

1:03:14

and black women, So it's

1:03:17

like, well, then why are they toning it down?

1:03:19

Like ugh?

1:03:20

I mean, also that's invented the fact that the

1:03:22

term baps like that existed

1:03:25

prior to this movie, and it is so just

1:03:28

I don't know, like weird, maybe tongue

1:03:30

in cheek to just attribute it to Martin

1:03:33

Landau and this is very much

1:03:35

a term that came out of the black community.

1:03:37

But they're like, no, it's basically Martin Landa's idea.

1:03:39

He was dying one day and was like, guess

1:03:41

what I had just thought of? Anyways,

1:03:44

Yeah, I don't know. There's other tropes that this

1:03:46

movie subscribes to that I am

1:03:49

more tempted to attribute to, like the

1:03:51

Cinderella genre we're in where

1:03:54

there is like devious nephew,

1:03:56

right, But ultimately the two

1:03:58

old white men in this movie are great

1:04:01

guys that deserve the best,

1:04:03

which is very like part I think

1:04:05

of mister Bald from Annie

1:04:07

or whatever.

1:04:08

Who's mister Bald.

1:04:09

What's his name?

1:04:11

Oh, mister Noah hair I

1:04:13

can't think of his name.

1:04:14

Daddy wore Bucks, yes, right, like

1:04:18

just someone that you're like, the way that they got this

1:04:20

money has to be evil. You can't

1:04:22

get this much money doing something good

1:04:24

for the world. But in the world

1:04:27

of this rags to riches story,

1:04:29

they are this benevolent force

1:04:32

that has to be on the side of our protagonist,

1:04:34

which is often a young woman

1:04:37

or girl. Rich white

1:04:39

old man gives young

1:04:41

women a lot of money. You know, I'd

1:04:44

accept it. But this is very much a

1:04:46

formula that exists, and I feel like the Martin Landau

1:04:48

character being at the end of the day a nice

1:04:51

old man. It falls cleanly

1:04:53

into that.

1:04:54

What do we think he did for a living? Or

1:04:56

like, how do you think he made his millions?

1:04:58

They said fabrics and I was like, oh, yeah,

1:05:01

which I'm like that, So I'm

1:05:03

not optimistic about his like labor.

1:05:07

Right, the labor practices, I'm

1:05:09

sure very exploitative.

1:05:11

But we're not supposed to think about.

1:05:12

That no or

1:05:14

any movie like it.

1:05:16

Right.

1:05:16

I would like to draw some parallels between this movie

1:05:19

and Eddie murphy Haunted Mansion,

1:05:22

because both movies, yeah, friend,

1:05:25

thank you so much. Both movies

1:05:27

involve a rich

1:05:30

white guy who

1:05:32

was in love with a black woman

1:05:35

and the family disapproved

1:05:38

and she ends up gone

1:05:41

in a way, and we're not really sure what happens

1:05:43

to.

1:05:44

Her, even know if she's alive or not. Are

1:05:46

they going to say if she's alive? Is he going to

1:05:48

ask if she's alive?

1:05:50

I thought maybe Lily would show up

1:05:52

me at some point, but no, we're not really

1:05:54

sure.

1:05:55

Right, it seems like pointed that they weren't saying

1:05:57

that she had died.

1:05:58

Yeah.

1:05:59

I was like, Oh, she's gonna come back at the end to be like halle

1:06:01

Berry, you impostor.

1:06:03

But she doesn't.

1:06:05

We will die with that mystery.

1:06:08

We don't know we will, And

1:06:10

I wanted to Mansion at least we know that that

1:06:12

woman does very dead die.

1:06:15

But anyway, Also, there's like a

1:06:17

butler in both stories who's

1:06:20

like, they play out very

1:06:22

differently in the two movies, but there

1:06:24

is a butler who's like very loyal to

1:06:27

his rich white guy boss.

1:06:30

And you know, so I

1:06:32

think that's where the parallels end.

1:06:34

But that's still I mean, but yeah, the butler

1:06:36

in Haunted Mansion ends up being quite

1:06:38

evil.

1:06:38

Evil Yeah yeah, yeah, he gets dragged

1:06:41

to hell.

1:06:41

Playing Butler Stereo times Justice

1:06:44

for Butler's.

1:06:47

Sorry. I'm on Daddy Warbucks's Wikipedia.

1:06:52

Actually we're gonna say Daddy warbucks dot com.

1:06:55

I was like, what did Daddy Warbucks

1:06:57

do bad?

1:06:58

He was an industrialist, but his Wikipedia

1:07:00

page is very funny and he is not real. He

1:07:03

eventually became a foreman in the rolling mill,

1:07:05

married Missus Warbucks and worked

1:07:08

and planned for a family and house of their own. When

1:07:10

Daddy began they call him

1:07:12

daddy throughout. When

1:07:16

Daddy began to make big money during

1:07:19

World War One, his marital happiness

1:07:21

was lost.

1:07:22

You're like, oh, no.

1:07:24

Daddy, Daddy.

1:07:25

No, also

1:07:27

a foreman in a mill. Who is this Billy's

1:07:29

aid from Titanic?

1:07:31

Yeah, it is villain coded uh,

1:07:34

Daddy. That's basically who

1:07:37

Martin Lantau is in this. They

1:07:39

keep going uncle, he's uncle, Daddy,

1:07:41

He's daddy, And that's

1:07:43

fine.

1:07:44

Yeah, does anyone

1:07:46

have anything else they'd like to talk about?

1:07:49

I just had one other note, which is that some

1:07:51

of the references in this movie were

1:07:53

so first of all, very of an era, but also

1:07:56

so tight. When the girls are fighting

1:07:58

Antonio, they think he's burglar and

1:08:01

they're like, I'm gonna do them like Tyson, and

1:08:03

she's like, oh, you didn't see the last fight because

1:08:05

you were in the kitchen getting popcorn. That Do

1:08:08

you remember how in the nineties Tyson was known

1:08:10

for like these big hyped boxing

1:08:12

matches would only last for like thirty seconds

1:08:14

because he would knock people out. Oh,

1:08:17

I remember distinctly. My parents

1:08:20

had a fight party and my dad went

1:08:22

to get burgers off the grill, and when he came back,

1:08:24

the fight was over and they had paid, like I

1:08:26

don't know however much money back then, one hundred dollars or

1:08:28

something to get the fight on pay per view. And it was

1:08:30

like, well, I guess you missed it.

1:08:32

Oh wow, okay, I

1:08:34

did not.

1:08:35

Know that some of these references

1:08:37

are so tight, and so.

1:08:39

Just like, yeah, it's good,

1:08:42

it's good. Unfortunately, one of

1:08:44

my favorite jokes is from one

1:08:46

of the Loser boyfriends. But

1:08:48

it's when Mickey's boyfriend James

1:08:51

is saying, how oh, when we got

1:08:53

to dinner, you know, we have to

1:08:55

watch other people eat and he's crying

1:08:57

and he's like, I want to eat too.

1:09:01

So okay, that was a pretty good line. I'll give

1:09:04

him that.

1:09:04

That's a good joke.

1:09:05

He had one moment, had one moment,

1:09:08

and then he Leonardo DiCaprio and

1:09:10

fell into a body of water fully

1:09:12

clothed.

1:09:13

Wait, is that a Leonardo dicaprioism.

1:09:16

Yes, In every movie he's basically

1:09:18

he will end up in a body of water with

1:09:20

all of his clothes on. I

1:09:23

made a super cut to this effect.

1:09:26

It's stunning and if you

1:09:28

want to watch it, you should come to our

1:09:30

Shrek Tannic tour in the UK because

1:09:33

we will be showing it at the show.

1:09:36

Really great plug opportunity.

1:09:38

Yeah, that was masterful,

1:09:41

Thank you so much, thank you. The

1:09:43

only other thing I had was just again pulling

1:09:46

from that Refinery twenty nine article that

1:09:48

opens with just a couple of statistics

1:09:50

that illustrates how like we've been talking

1:09:52

about this whole episode, how

1:09:55

this is a rare movie

1:09:57

that centers black women and also

1:10:00

so allows them to have fun and

1:10:02

be goofy, and how rare

1:10:04

that is. And then that countered

1:10:06

with the other thing we've been talking about, which

1:10:09

is how hyper critical and

1:10:11

overly critical critics tend

1:10:13

to be of movies that

1:10:16

don't really exist very often.

1:10:18

Yeah, how An Cohen opens the article is

1:10:21

with these stats that I thought, what interesting.

1:10:24

Hollywood released approximately one hundred

1:10:26

and forty three movies in nineteen ninety seven.

1:10:29

Of those, just seventeen starred

1:10:31

a black performer in the top billing. Most

1:10:34

of those roles, as with men in black

1:10:36

double team money talks, most wanted and

1:10:38

switched back, were given to black men opposite

1:10:41

white male co leads. Others

1:10:43

like Amistad focused on a historic slavery

1:10:46

narrative, so that there's only really a couple

1:10:48

of movies each year, especially at this

1:10:50

time, that centers strictly

1:10:53

black characters at all, much less

1:10:55

black women. The only other ensemble

1:10:58

movies that came out, we've actually covered one us

1:11:00

Love Jones and Soul Food.

1:11:03

So yeah, I just like speaks

1:11:05

to like this movie.

1:11:07

Does it have its faults?

1:11:08

Yes?

1:11:09

Yeah, it's also a goofy comedy

1:11:11

from nineteen ninety seven.

1:11:12

It's an extremely goofy movie,

1:11:15

I would say.

1:11:16

I would say that as well representation

1:11:19

as a goofy black girl. We need representation

1:11:21

for our goofy corny asses to like

1:11:24

engage in some screwball hijakes

1:11:26

on screen.

1:11:27

Yeah, we need more hijacks, more hijis.

1:11:31

Yeah, I think that was all I had. Does anyone else have anything?

1:11:34

Nope?

1:11:35

This movie passes the Bechdel test.

1:11:37

Yes it does. The women

1:11:39

are talking now and

1:11:41

then about their boyfriends or

1:11:43

about don or Antonio,

1:11:46

but they also talk about hair,

1:11:48

they talk about food, they talk about opening

1:11:51

up their business, they talk about dancing,

1:11:53

they talk about being in la all

1:11:56

that kind of stuff. So handily

1:11:59

passing what about our nipple scale,

1:12:01

though, where we rate the movie on a scale

1:12:03

of zero to five nipples based

1:12:05

on examining it through an intersectional

1:12:08

feminist lens. I'm

1:12:10

tempted to go like a three and a half or

1:12:12

a four on this one. I

1:12:15

love that this is a movie made

1:12:17

by black filmmakers that features

1:12:20

and centers a friendship

1:12:23

between two black women that

1:12:25

is fun and light

1:12:28

and there's a distinct

1:12:30

lack of tragedy, which, again, like as

1:12:32

we were just kind of hinting at, so many

1:12:35

stories, especially from

1:12:37

this era, that centered black

1:12:39

characters were like rife with the

1:12:42

tragedy of the black experience, and

1:12:44

this movie is just like all about like

1:12:47

it's a Cinderella story, as we've been saying,

1:12:49

like it's a fairy tale, and it's just like

1:12:52

so fun to watch these

1:12:55

characters. And I don't

1:12:57

know why the boyfriends are there

1:12:59

right them out of the story. There's

1:13:02

some like kind of class implications

1:13:04

that I don't love, but other

1:13:06

than that, it's just like such

1:13:08

a fun movie about two

1:13:11

black women who are best friends and they're

1:13:13

grifting a rich white guy and that's

1:13:15

what should happen all the time.

1:13:18

So and I just can't enough

1:13:21

how much he's loving the grift.

1:13:23

Yeah, I love it.

1:13:24

He's obsessed. So I'm

1:13:26

gonna give it four nipples. I am

1:13:29

sad on Troy Buyer's behalf

1:13:31

that she didn't like the final product

1:13:34

and felt that her story

1:13:36

and her words in the screenplay were

1:13:38

not properly translated

1:13:42

to film. But despite

1:13:44

that, it's still a fun, enjoyable

1:13:46

movie for me. So I'm

1:13:48

going to go four nipples, and I

1:13:51

will split them between Troy

1:13:54

Buyer, halle Berry, and

1:13:57

Natalie des sill Read.

1:13:58

I think like a three and a half because

1:14:00

I really feel Troy Byer's

1:14:03

pain here and being like, it's my

1:14:05

big break. I've been acting for years,

1:14:07

this is my big screenwriting break. Black women so

1:14:09

infrequently get to write

1:14:11

anything on a scale

1:14:13

like this and then to watch it and be like,

1:14:16

oh, my heart is with her.

1:14:18

And also I think that there's so much

1:14:20

to love about this movie. It's so fun.

1:14:23

It centers black women and their friendship

1:14:25

in ways that we almost never see in movies. Even

1:14:27

now. The ways that I find

1:14:30

it frustrating are very of its time, mostly

1:14:32

the boyfriends. Honestly, like, I think

1:14:34

that it didn't become permissible until

1:14:37

sometime in the two thousands. For

1:14:39

a protagonist who is a

1:14:41

straight woman to end up

1:14:44

not with a man, even

1:14:46

if that man is not good

1:14:48

for her, She's got to end up with somebody,

1:14:51

and that is the case here. But I

1:14:53

feel like, if you can cut through that noise,

1:14:56

it's just like, the performances

1:14:58

are so funny. I

1:15:00

love Like, if we don't get to see halle Berry

1:15:03

do comedy ever, which

1:15:05

is I feel like the dancing audition

1:15:07

line scene alone, You're like, well, we

1:15:10

deserved more of halle

1:15:13

Berry comedy movies. And Natalie

1:15:15

dcell is a master

1:15:17

comic actor. She's amazing, and

1:15:20

I wish she had more to do here. I wish

1:15:22

that there was like more of an even protagonist

1:15:25

situation here. But I

1:15:27

love to see her. I love her. It's so

1:15:29

wild that she was in two really

1:15:32

fun, amazing, very different Cinderella

1:15:35

stories that centered black women in the

1:15:37

same year. Good for You

1:15:39

in nineteen ninety seven and

1:15:42

Yeah, I hate the boyfriends, love

1:15:45

the baps. Three and a half nipples.

1:15:47

Put that on a shirt.

1:15:51

I would buy it. Hell yeah, is

1:15:53

it out of five nips?

1:15:54

Out of five nips?

1:15:55

Yes, I'm gonna go for Obviously,

1:15:58

I have a soft spot for this movie. I feel any

1:16:00

movie that you watched with your head

1:16:02

cradled on your hands on your tummy while

1:16:04

kicking your feet at a slumber party, you can only

1:16:07

go solo. I agree.

1:16:09

I do feel for the screenwriter,

1:16:11

and I'm really happy that she spoke up.

1:16:13

I would love to see her original version of

1:16:15

this movie, like what was her vision. I

1:16:17

also a sucker for a movie that has a lot of random

1:16:20

cameos people of an era playing

1:16:22

themselves. You know, I don't think

1:16:25

it's heavy v is in the movie. Yeah. So,

1:16:27

like there's a one scene where they go to dinner and

1:16:29

it's like every celebrity ever is having dinner

1:16:31

has the same reservation time. So

1:16:33

I love all the fun nineties cameos.

1:16:36

Yeah, yeah, I just I love a

1:16:38

screwball comedy, and I just get the sense

1:16:40

that the two leads were like off

1:16:43

screen and on screen like friends. You just

1:16:45

can you can just send a work from them that

1:16:47

is really delightful.

1:16:48

So I'll go for Oh beautiful

1:16:51

Bridget, thank you so much for joining us again. It's

1:16:53

always such a treat to have you come back

1:16:56

anytime.

1:16:57

Oh my god, thank you for having this. You know, this

1:16:59

was such a great way to spend my getting

1:17:02

to watch baths and then talk about it thoughtfully

1:17:04

for an hour, like thank you, this is a gift.

1:17:07

We're so happy to do it, Like it's this movie

1:17:09

put me in a great mood, right I have

1:17:12

finished. Pacheco was like, I, oh

1:17:14

god, it's so hard to be in a great mood.

1:17:16

At this movie put me in a great mood truly.

1:17:19

Where can people check out your work?

1:17:22

Follow you on social media, et cetera.

1:17:24

Yeah, you can check out my podcast on

1:17:26

iHeartRadio called There Are No Girls on the Internet.

1:17:29

You can later this month, depending

1:17:31

on when this comes out, you can listen to another podcast

1:17:33

that I have with Next Chapter Podcasts called

1:17:36

Beef, where we are digging into the juiciest

1:17:38

historical rivalries that you've never

1:17:40

heard of. Well, yeah,

1:17:42

you can find me on Instagram at bridget Marie and

1:17:45

DC, on Twitter at Bridget Marie, on

1:17:47

Blue Sky at Bridget tad, or on TikTok

1:17:50

at Bridget makes Pods

1:17:52

very nice.

1:17:53

I just learned what Blue Sky was. How did

1:17:55

I miss it?

1:17:57

I have an account and I posted once

1:18:00

and then I was like, all right, get

1:18:02

them done, and you did it.

1:18:04

My New Year's reolution was to use Twitter less.

1:18:06

So that's I'm trying to like play with blue

1:18:08

Sky more. So maybe I'll see all there.

1:18:10

Hell yeah, yeah, see you there

1:18:13

anyway. You can follow us on Patreon

1:18:17

aka r Matreon at patreon

1:18:19

dot com slash Bechtyl Cast. We released

1:18:22

two episodes every month, plus you'll

1:18:24

get access to our back catalog of

1:18:26

over one hundred and fifty episodes at

1:18:28

this point, all for five dollars

1:18:31

a month.

1:18:31

If you live in the UK, you can come see us on tour.

1:18:34

We're gonna be touring throughout

1:18:36

the UK in number of cities, more days

1:18:38

to come in late May,

1:18:41

so check that out. And you can also get our merch

1:18:43

at teapoplic dot com slash the Bechtel

1:18:47

Cast.

1:18:47

That's right. Links to all of that stuff,

1:18:49

including the ticket links for our tour,

1:18:52

are at linktree slash Bechtel

1:18:54

Cast. So scoot over there,

1:18:56

grab those tickets, grab that merch, wear it

1:18:59

to the show, et cetera,

1:19:01

and yeah, we'll see you later.

1:19:03

Wow, amazing dismount.

1:19:05

I have a reservation along with every famous

1:19:08

person at Beverly Hills at the restaurant

1:19:10

Parselon, So if you'd like to

1:19:12

join me and scream at various celebrities.

1:19:15

That's for a yeah, And I'm gonna go there and be

1:19:17

like, oh my god, Jamie Loftis, I love you,

1:19:20

I love your book.

1:19:20

Raw Dogs, be like easy,

1:19:23

easy, I'm just trying to eat

1:19:25

hair.

1:19:27

They hated Dennis Radman for they

1:19:30

Yes, we'll do, We'll do, Bye

1:19:33

Bye bye.

1:19:38

The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1:19:40

hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis,

1:19:43

produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1:19:45

by Mola Board. Our theme song

1:19:47

was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

1:19:49

by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our

1:19:52

logo in merch is designed by Jamie

1:19:54

Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle

1:19:56

Acevedo. For more information

1:19:58

about the podcast, please visit linktree

1:20:01

slash Bechtelcast