0:00

Burn attention

0:03

Beck to Gast listeners.

0:05

We're going on tour.

0:07

We really are. And it's not

0:09

just any tour. It's a tour in the UK

0:13

and it's a tour where we are covering Titanic

0:16

and.

0:17

Shrek, brilliantly titled

0:19

the Shrek Tannic Tour.

0:21

Yes, Shrek Tornic. We're

0:23

working on it.

0:24

There's a couple there's a couple months before

0:26

the tour, but yes, we're really excited.

0:29

We're currently doing five shows in the UK,

0:31

with more shows to be added.

0:33

Stay tuned at the

0:35

end of May.

0:37

Yes, starting with two shows

0:39

in London on May twenty second. On's

0:41

at six point thirty that's a Shrek show, one

0:44

at nine pm that is a

0:46

Titanic show. Then we

0:49

are scooting over to Oxford

0:52

on May twenty fourth we are covering

0:54

Titanic. Okay, that

0:57

show is a part of the Saint

0:59

Audio Podcast Festival in Oxford,

1:02

so be sure to check out our show as

1:04

well as other shows at the festival.

1:07

Then we're scooting up to

1:10

Edinburgh on May twenty sixth and doing

1:13

Shtrek.

1:14

If you're a Scottish Titanic fan, you are

1:16

going to have to commute and I

1:18

know that that's not but

1:21

listen, yeah, you live in Edinburgh

1:24

recovering Shrek.

1:25

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but also

1:27

you're welcome. And then if you do want

1:30

to see Titanic, you can

1:32

head down to Manchester. We're

1:34

doing a show on May twenty eighth,

1:37

and that's a Titanic show. So yeah,

1:39

you're just gonna want to come to kind of all of

1:42

them if you live in the UK, if you live

1:44

kind of anywhere in Europe, or

1:46

sort of just anywhere in the world.

1:48

As your Bechdel Cast allies in the US

1:50

can attest to. Our live

1:52

shows are super fun. It is

1:54

like a live episode

1:57

plus a bunch of fun stuff. We dress

1:59

up, we bring audience members on stage sometimes

2:02

we do. It's just it's big and goofy

2:04

and silly, and we're covering two

2:06

of our favorite movies that are Bechdel Cast

2:08

can and so we want to have a good time.

2:11

We'll be bringing exclusive merch

2:14

and we will be doing meet

2:16

and greets before and after the show.

2:18

We want to meet everybody.

2:19

And we're really really excited

2:22

and tickets are already going

2:24

fast because we released it to Matrons

2:26

first, plugging the Patreon really

2:29

quick.

2:29

Little perk for the matrons.

2:32

Yep.

2:32

So if you live in those areas, get

2:34

those dang tickets because these shows will

2:36

sell out.

2:37

Yes they will. So head over

2:39

to our link Tree Link Tree

2:41

slash Bechdel Cast, grab your

2:44

tickets for the Shrek

2:46

Tanic.

2:49

And enjoy the episode.

2:52

On the Doodcast, the questions asked

2:54

if movies have women and are

2:57

all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

2:59

or do they have individualism? It's

3:01

the patriarchy and bast

3:04

start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

3:07

Jamie Caitlyn,

3:10

I wrote you a letter because

3:12

I'm in love with you? What?

3:14

And do you know why?

3:16

No?

3:16

You don't even know me. No, I do,

3:19

and you don't. I know that

3:21

you love strawberry pop tarts and that I

3:23

love strawberry pop tarts and that's enough fun

3:25

what.

3:26

I unfortunately not

3:29

to break the bechel test immediately, but I

3:31

sent that scene to my boyfriend and I was like,

3:33

wow, we sort of had that

3:36

conversation at one point.

3:38

It was like the first night he stayed over

3:41

at my house and I was like, oh, do you want any breakfast?

3:43

I have three pop.

3:45

Tarts and he's like, wow,

3:48

that's all I have at my house meant

3:51

to be. We should keep this thing

3:53

going and never improve

3:56

as individuals.

3:57

It's kind of nice.

3:59

Uh so all that to say teenagers

4:02

are swart. Actually, this

4:05

movie is so bizarre. Welcome to

4:07

the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.

4:09

My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our

4:12

show where we examine movies through an intersectional

4:14

feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test

4:16

as a jumping off point for a larger

4:19

discussion. The Bechdel Test is

4:21

a media metric created by queer

4:24

cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often

4:26

called the Bechdel Wallace Test since she collaborated

4:29

on it with her friend Liz Wallace.

4:32

That makes it.

4:32

Sound like it was like this big project.

4:35

It was not that it was just a throwaway

4:37

Joe.

4:37

It was just kind of a day that they had.

4:41

In Alison Bechdel's Ducks to Watch

4:43

out for from the mid eighties. There

4:45

are many versions of the test. The one that we

4:47

use is this, do two characters

4:50

of a marginalized gender have names?

4:53

Do they speak to each other about something

4:55

other than a man? And

4:57

ideally for us, is it a nice,

5:00

meaty conversation and not just

5:02

throwaway Dialogue.

5:04

Today we are covering

5:07

a much requested movie and

5:09

I'll say it, but a much requested guest.

5:11

I feel that I'm

5:14

just excited to bring her in.

5:15

The vibes on our

5:18

episodes with this guest are just

5:20

sort of unmatched.

5:23

It's like chaotic good yes.

5:25

And also I would say very Shrekian.

5:28

And not for nothing, not

5:30

for nothing. Read the byline.

5:32

It's right there, it's right there.

5:35

She's a culture writer. You can see her work on

5:37

Substack at High Shelley as well

5:39

as Architectural Digest and Vogue.

5:42

You know her from episodes on Buffaloed

5:45

and Empire Records. It's

5:47

Shelley Nicole.

5:49

Hi. I'm so happy I'm back.

5:51

Welcome back, I hike.

5:53

You forget about the Shrekian How could

5:55

I? I mean, I need to put the mic

5:57

down now because that's so rude for me.

6:00

Has that not become your professional

6:02

byeline?

6:03

It is? It is. Now Now

6:06

that I'm solo and on my own, I'm

6:08

changing my substack from Hi Shelley to

6:11

exactly.

6:11

That, Hi Shreky, Hi

6:13

Shreky exactly.

6:15

I mean theoretically,

6:18

I mean, you know, Shrek five is

6:20

allegedly in production, so if you're pitching

6:22

yourself for reviewing it. I mean, you're like, well,

6:25

who who are you gonna hire over Shreky.

6:27

Herself better than

6:29

me? I would love to go to a premiere

6:32

of that. Wow, that would be so great. Oh

6:34

my first interview. Guys, I'm gonna

6:36

do it now that I know it exists. You're gonna

6:38

make substacks send me.

6:39

I'm gonna.

6:40

I'm currently spending so much like

6:43

not it. I mean I haven't done anything,

6:45

but I just think about it a lot of Like Despicable

6:48

before comes out July third, How

6:51

hard could it be to get invited to that?

6:53

Like I have, I

6:56

like, I do have to go. I have

6:58

Shrek news for everyone.

7:00

What?

7:00

Oh my god, tell us I was at the mall

7:02

the other day, right brag.

7:04

I love that sentence. I love that

7:08

very nineteen ninety eight of you. I love

7:11

this sentence. It's true.

7:13

I'm studying the scene. I was at a store

7:15

called box Lunch.

7:17

Who knows.

7:17

Oh, I know it's it's sort of like hot

7:20

topic, but.

7:20

Like a little but I think it's like quieter.

7:23

Quiet it's not quite so hot.

7:26

I guess it's like a warm topic kind

7:29

of thing.

7:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that this was

7:32

literally gonna be like a sweet green or

7:34

something like that. I didn't know, like

7:37

hot topics, like conservative

7:39

sisters.

7:40

Kind of yeah, like it's it

7:43

is. It's it's like a hot topic. Got a

7:45

desk job.

7:46

But it's still all like weirdly like

7:48

merchandisee like merchandized

7:50

stuff. And they had a Shrek section

7:53

and they had this a Shrek instruction, you

7:56

could say, And there

7:59

was this unbelove believable sweater that

8:01

was like a full cable knit sweater with like

8:05

huge knit onions all

8:07

over it, and then on the back.

8:09

Was Shrek like three D onions.

8:11

Three D onions, like huge onion

8:14

like pom poms.

8:15

Oh my gosh, it was really wait, jamis

8:17

for the Shrek.

8:18

And with like a huge amount

8:20

of disposable income.

8:23

Was this at the Glendale Galleria? Yes,

8:26

okay, good, let's go there and buy

8:28

it.

8:29

It's called a business expense. Gosh,

8:32

I'm looking for Okay, here, I'm gonna

8:34

put it in the chat. It is sixty five dollars,

8:37

I guess for it A.

8:38

Nice five dollars. I'm

8:40

like for a sweater you'll wear every day for the

8:42

rest of your life.

8:44

Maybe I mean small price to pay.

8:46

Maybe there's also a Shrek

8:48

hockey Tracy.

8:50

Okay, see, this isn't as bad as

8:53

I thought it was gonna be.

8:54

I think it's tasteful. I think you could wear

8:57

it to like parent teacher conferences.

8:59

Yeah, like, yes, I'm the parent,

9:01

and people will be like, I feel like someone

9:04

should call the FEDS because

9:07

this child is not okay, this child

9:10

is not in a happy home.

9:13

Oh well, okay, let's

9:16

talk about well that we're all caught up. So

9:20

today we're talking about can't hardly wait

9:22

from nineteen ninety eight. Now, I didn't mean

9:24

for that to rhyme.

9:25

I was gonna be like, that was very cool, your

9:27

kid, It was very cool. Yeah, it was very

9:29

nice.

9:30

Anyway, So Shelley, what

9:32

is your relationship with this

9:34

movie?

9:35

I saw this movie when I was in middle school because

9:38

it made me want to go It

9:41

made me excited to go to high school, or

9:43

you know what I'm saying, Like I think I had seen a

9:46

lot of movies that year because I

9:48

was looking it up, like when this movie

9:50

came out, what else came out? A Dead

9:52

Man on Campus came out this year or too, which

9:55

a lot of people don't believe me. When I talk

9:57

about it that it is a real movie, s like

10:01

Zach Morris, Yeah, and it's got quite

10:03

a plot. One of my favorite teen

10:05

movies came out. The

10:07

Faculty came out, featuring like usher

10:10

disturbing behavior with like a

10:12

bad girl crop top Katie Holmes. So

10:14

all of those were like I

10:16

was like, oh, it's kind of like bad high school

10:19

or scary high school or whatever. But

10:21

this one was so sweet and had

10:24

like I know, it's a bunch of silliness

10:26

in it, but it had like a cute little love story

10:29

and stuff. And I saw it. I rented it a blockbuster,

10:32

of course, and when I did rent it,

10:34

it became one of the movies that I always

10:37

rented, like because I would

10:39

rent like two or three movies at a time, and I would try to

10:41

get a new one and then like one

10:43

where I'm like, I'm just

10:45

going to watch this all weekend

10:47

and I'm gonna fuck this DVD up, like, but

10:50

I love this movie, yeah, And then that's

10:53

my relationship to it. Nothing really queer

10:55

based, really, because I was trying to think of

10:57

that. I will say this is one of the first

10:59

movies I all that I

11:01

knew my answer to like do

11:04

I want to like be her, kiss her. I

11:06

knew I wanted to be Amanda

11:09

Beckett and and a lot of the other movies

11:11

I saw. I was like,

11:14

very confused this one right out the

11:16

gate. I was like, I just want

11:18

to be her, loved her tank top, love the hair

11:21

I wear. Hair sounds like this to this day. But

11:23

yeah, I just like, I

11:25

love this movie so much. I love also

11:28

stand by it. I stand

11:30

by the fact that I think that this movie has

11:32

one of the greatest soundtracks I have

11:34

ever heard in a teen film.

11:36

It's good, the boldness require

11:38

to do the same smash

11:41

mouthed needle drop twice.

11:43

You're like, yes, what is this a

11:45

Shrek movie?

11:47

Shrek wait?

11:48

Is Shrek ad opening on a.

11:50

Smash shrekd It's like it

11:52

was Shrek before. I feel like Shrek

11:54

Saw can hardly waves. Like here's how

11:56

my feels like has to open.

11:58

I need that. I mean, it's aligned.

12:00

I mean, I'm just saying, but this movie is

12:03

like fucking incredible,

12:05

and I think it's the first time I also

12:07

saw hazy moments

12:09

in movies, like for some reason, when Amanda

12:12

or Jennifer Love Hewitt, famous

12:14

three named actress.

12:16

Yes, I mean this was the era.

12:19

Yeah, she got like RuPaul Season

12:21

one drag race lighting in

12:23

a lot of the moments where she was like

12:26

monologuing her ass off. But yeah,

12:28

I love this movie so much. I love this movie.

12:30

Oh Jamie, how about

12:32

you? What's your history?

12:34

I'd never seen it. I'd never seen this

12:36

movie before. I jealous.

12:39

I don't know, like why, because

12:41

I found I had seen a

12:43

lot of the ninety teen movies.

12:44

This is just one that I hadn't seen for whatever reason.

12:47

My personal connection to it

12:49

is that I was employed

12:52

by Seth Green for two years.

12:55

Wow, so i'd certainly and I've

12:57

written with well, I mean, Breckenmeier's not

12:59

in this movie very much, but like we

13:01

were in the same writer's room for a

13:04

chunk of time. So I have like

13:08

an attachment to two

13:10

of the guys in the movie. And then also

13:13

like without this movie is you

13:15

know, and I guess it wasn't a success

13:17

at the time it came out, but without this movie, we

13:19

wouldn't have Josie and the Pussycats, And so

13:21

I knew.

13:21

It was Like, even if I don't love.

13:23

It, I have to honor its place

13:25

in history because the director directors,

13:28

Harry Elphont and Deborah Kaplan, who

13:30

wrote and directed this movie also wrote and directed Josie

13:33

and the Pussycats. Yeah that's

13:35

so cool, right, I

13:38

did not know that.

13:39

I Yeah, I really enjoyed this movie.

13:42

I thought it was I think, like, you know, the places

13:44

where it's dated is really you

13:46

know, dated obviously. But I like

13:48

this movie, especially because we've covered

13:51

a lot of teen movies of this era.

13:54

I think it's.

13:54

Doing a lot more than I

13:57

expected in terms of like showing

13:59

it giving its characters some depth and some

14:01

grace, and like, I don't know any teen

14:03

movie that ends in a somewhat

14:05

gray area I'm really intrigued

14:08

by because it's just like, not what

14:10

happens. It's like it ends with like a

14:12

kiss and you will die

14:15

with this teenager.

14:17

Like smash cuts. It's twenty

14:19

five years later, they're.

14:20

Still together, right or like or

14:22

a bet or a lie or whatever it is.

14:24

Right, So it's like there, this movie's

14:27

you know, trafficking heavily in like stereotyped

14:30

high school characters. But I feel like it's doing

14:32

a little more in terms of like showing

14:34

us the shades of gray to these characters.

14:38

I think if I had seen this.

14:40

As a teenager, I would have been like wow, Preston

14:42

and Amanda. As an adult, I'm so underwhelmed

14:44

by President and Amanda. I'm like, Amanda, what are you doing?

14:47

What are you doing? Yeah, the reality

14:49

hasn't like I have. I

14:52

mean, I think, well, we probably all feel the same way.

14:54

But like she was so right and the way she

14:57

like cut him down to size

15:00

and then she read. I was like, well, sure

15:02

he wrote a nice letter because he's a big fan

15:04

of Kurt Vonnegut, question mark, was

15:06

he famous for love letters?

15:08

No, but like

15:11

he has the.

15:11

Romantic stylings of Kurt Vonnicut,

15:14

but like nothing, he still doesn't know her.

15:17

She was right.

15:17

Yeah, so yeah, anyways,

15:20

I thought this movie was fun and good

15:23

and I love Lauren Ambrose.

15:26

Literally love Lauren

15:28

Ambrose. I was gonna talk about how like

15:30

Dyke coded this movie and

15:32

that character is she's going to NYU.

15:35

She's like wearing all black,

15:37

she's giving like Clea Duval light.

15:40

You know, it's also in this movie. He's also

15:43

two second movie. It's great,

15:45

everybody's in this movie. Everyone

15:48

is in this movie. Everyone.

15:50

And I say this with love I

15:52

feel, but it's like I think the in teen comedies

15:55

today because we have covered like some modern teen

15:57

movies.

15:58

Everyone does look so

16:00

perfect and I.

16:02

Like that, Like, I mean, even though some of them are

16:05

kind of maybe visibly in their twenties,

16:08

it's still like I'm like, how

16:10

do I say this in a way that feels respectful, But like I

16:12

like when they're like, yeah, they're playing teenagers,

16:15

they can kind of look like shit and like be

16:17

wearing confusing outfits and.

16:19

Like be sweaty, and.

16:21

Like it feels like such a cool like because

16:23

this is Debora Kaplan and Harry Elphont's

16:26

first feature, and it's like you can tell they're not

16:28

working with a lot of money, so sometimes people.

16:29

Are just sweating.

16:31

Yeah, and Jason Siegel's there,

16:33

and I guess we'll allow

16:35

it.

16:36

Yeah why not? Yeah,

16:39

I don't know. I'm excited to talk about it. Uh, Cantlee,

16:41

what's your history with this movie?

16:43

I had seen it a couple of times before

16:45

prepping for the episode. It wasn't something

16:47

that was like in heavy rotation for

16:50

me. But I saw it, I

16:52

think for the first time in probably

16:55

college. I don't think I saw it when I was still

16:57

in high school, so I was by the time I saw it for

16:59

the first time. I was just like high

17:02

school, I already did that, I'm not impressed.

17:06

And then I feel like I saw it again within the past

17:08

five years. I don't know what would

17:10

have necessarily compelled me to rewatch

17:13

it. Maybe just because I was like, I

17:15

love Josie and the Pussycats and I

17:17

want to be more familiar with those

17:20

filmmakers work. So I

17:22

watched it again, and I was reminded that it's like,

17:25

like you were saying, Jamie a more I would

17:27

say, a slightly more subversive version

17:30

of like a teen ensemble

17:33

cast movie.

17:34

I was reading because I was having

17:37

like.

17:37

A half baked

17:40

version of this thought. And then I was reading the big

17:43

retrospective of this movie that was published

17:45

in The Ringer like five years ago

17:47

or so. And Deborah and Harry

17:50

because we're friends and so let's

17:52

just call them Deborah and Harry.

17:54

They said, they're like our inspiration

17:56

for this was what if the party scene

17:59

from Say Say He was a movie? And I

18:01

was like, this movie has so much

18:04

say anything energy to it, like the

18:06

the friendship between Preston and

18:08

Denise felt very say

18:11

anything, because that's like another thing teen

18:13

movies famously can't do is like

18:15

friends of the opposite gender not getting

18:18

married at.

18:19

The end of the movie. That's so cool

18:21

to know.

18:22

Preston and Denise are so cool. Like

18:25

it reminds me so much of friendships that I had

18:28

where it's like there's like not

18:30

not any sexual tension.

18:32

Between them that part.

18:33

Yeah, but it's clear they're never going

18:35

to act on it and like it's

18:38

never gonna happen. I was like, ooh, I definitely

18:40

was friends. I had those friendships

18:42

where.

18:43

Sometimes you're like stop and then you're like,

18:45

oh.

18:46

I hate it.

18:47

I love the extra like puh,

18:49

Like it's very that and I

18:52

think so too, because it's super like you know,

18:54

it's not not there, but they're never

18:56

gonna act on it for the sake of like

18:59

we're such friends. Like

19:02

this would was so weird. It

19:04

would have quite literally ruin and

19:06

I'm going to n yu. So I

19:10

can't like deal with.

19:11

That, like and honestly,

19:13

like, you don't want to Kurt Vonnaget

19:16

boyfriend going into college dead way, don't.

19:19

No, not when you already wear like

19:21

leather jacket and lace like unronically

19:24

to a teen party with your like haircut

19:27

and no, it's just no,

19:30

no, I love that character though.

19:31

She's so cool. Right, all

19:34

right, let's take a quick break and then we'll

19:37

come back for the.

19:38

Recap and

19:50

we're back.

19:52

Okay, Ready, here we go.

19:55

It's high school graduation and

19:58

all the teens are talking about a

20:01

huge party that night, and

20:03

there's a rumor going around that

20:06

Mike Dexter also.

20:07

I was like, okay, oh my god, the last Lennon

20:10

boyfriend. Yes, astronaut Mike

20:12

Dexter from thirty Rock.

20:14

Yeah, yes, unbelievably

20:16

distracting, so distracting, incredibly

20:20

because I was like, why do I Why

20:22

do I know that name?

20:23

Why do I know this name? Yeah?

20:25

Is there any real I'm like, did they just pick

20:28

two first names?

20:30

Like?

20:30

Is it?

20:31

Or is that?

20:31

Like?

20:32

Was there a writer at thirty Rock, like a

20:34

fan of this movie? Really bizarre?

20:37

We don't know, but you know, one of the

20:39

main characters is named basically astronaut

20:41

Mike Dexter. He has

20:44

dumped Amanda Beckett and it's

20:46

a big deal. All the teens are talking about

20:49

it. And then when Preston Myers

20:52

played by Ethan Embry, learns this,

20:54

he is elated because he has a

20:57

huge crush on Amanda and

20:59

he is his best friend Denise

21:02

played by Lauren Ambrose, that

21:04

he wants to finish what he started

21:06

with Amanda four years priori,

21:09

which turns out to be nothing.

21:11

And if that sounds like a threat, it kind

21:13

of really.

21:16

He's not not stalking

21:18

her.

21:20

Very sinister retelling of the

21:22

plot.

21:23

Yes.

21:24

Yeah, So we see a flashback where

21:27

Preston like misses his chance

21:29

to give her a tour of

21:32

the school on her first day of school because

21:34

she moved there freshman year, and

21:36

Mike Dexter gives her the tour instead,

21:38

which led them to getting together. So

21:41

Preston missed out on his chance,

21:43

but now that Amanda is single, Preston

21:46

is going to make a move. Meanwhile,

21:50

we meet astronaut Mike Dexter, who

21:52

is played by Peter Fatchinelli

21:54

aka Carlisle Cullen

21:57

from Twilight.

21:59

Yeah, but this movie

22:01

is so rooted in like

22:03

teendum, you know what

22:05

I mean? Because also the teacher

22:08

in like the flashback scene when

22:10

he was me she was one of the og pink

22:13

ladies from Greece. She's one of the ones

22:15

who sings like the toothbrush

22:17

song in Grease. This movie is

22:19

like rooted in teen

22:22

film history and to then have

22:24

this Cullen come on Hello.

22:27

I'm really like fascinated by like,

22:29

and I don't I'm sure that it's like rarely

22:31

intentional, but like an actor

22:34

that is just like a mainstay of

22:36

like coming of age, like through their career,

22:38

like Luke Perry comes to mind, like

22:41

through his career he was always in

22:43

teen stuff, even when

22:45

he was fifty, and you're just

22:48

like, it's just where he thrives.

22:50

Who knows why, It's just where

22:52

he thrives.

22:53

You know, we all have our little.

22:55

Niche yes, And I feel

22:57

like, you know, Peter Facinelli's same energy

23:00

he was on he was on Supergirl, like

23:02

oh.

23:02

He yeah, he's for the teens

23:05

who can.

23:05

Say why, oh

23:08

well, Mike Dexter, he's

23:11

this like jock bro dude,

23:14

asshole type and he

23:16

encourages his other shitty jock

23:18

friends to break up with their girlfriends

23:20

like he just did, and they're.

23:22

Like, yeah, that's a great idea.

23:25

These girls are holding us back. Also,

23:28

one of the jock friends is Sean

23:30

Patrick Thomas from Save the Last Dance,

23:32

which we just covered.

23:34

So that was a nineties

23:36

jump. Scarrow wasn't prepared for it, but I was like,

23:38

of course.

23:39

He's there.

23:40

Yeah.

23:41

Then we meet William Lichter

23:43

played by Charlie Coursmo. He's

23:46

the class valedictorian. He hates

23:49

Mike Dexter for bullying him for

23:51

years, and so William

23:53

and his like quote unquote nerd

23:55

friends are plotting this

23:58

like revenge scheme, Revenge

24:01

of the Nerds.

24:02

Much. It does have like a little

24:04

bit of Incelli.

24:05

Agy, yeah very much.

24:07

That. Yeah.

24:08

Anyway, they're planning this scheme against Mike

24:10

Dexter and his jock friends at the party

24:13

that night. Then we

24:15

meet Kenny Fisher, that's

24:17

Seth Green and his friends. And

24:20

the thing about them is that

24:22

they are white kids

24:25

who are appropriating black culture.

24:28

And they are like called Homeboy

24:30

number one in Homeboy number two in

24:33

the like oh yeah.

24:35

The character titles

24:37

on this movie. It's a mess.

24:40

Yeah, it's a mess.

24:42

It's messy. And then the

24:45

other thing with Kenny Fisher is that he is

24:47

like desperate to have sex

24:49

with basically any girl at the

24:51

party, and he has this whole backpack full

24:53

of like lube and condoms

24:56

and candles and all this like

24:58

sex paraphernalia.

25:00

He's got like the sex equivalent of a go

25:02

bag. Like it's just really.

25:05

The fact that it like flaps open to

25:07

like it en zips all the way. Something

25:09

about that never sat right with me because

25:12

I was like, book bags don't do that, so

25:14

that must be for something naughty.

25:17

Another bizarrely sinister

25:20

element of this movie.

25:22

Yes, the boys in this movie are

25:24

scary kind of.

25:26

Across the board, like

25:28

I'm not rooting for a single one of them.

25:31

Nope. Okay. So people

25:33

start arriving at the party, including

25:36

Preston and Denise, and Preston

25:38

feels really good about his chances at

25:40

getting with Amanda Beckett, partly

25:43

because he hears a Barry Manilow song

25:46

Mandy on the radio and he's

25:48

like, that's basically the same name as Amanda,

25:50

so he takes it as a sign that he should

25:52

give her a letter, like

25:55

a love letter that he wrote

25:57

for Amanda. When

26:00

we finally see Amanda on screen for the first

26:02

time, she's played by Jennifer Love Hewitt.

26:05

She shows up at the party and Preston's

26:07

like, Okay, I'm gonna go give her my letter, but

26:10

he's still trying to work up the nerve. He keeps

26:12

missing opportunities. Then

26:14

Amanda talks to her cousin

26:17

about her breakup and how

26:20

oh yeah.

26:21

Yeah, yeah, it's just

26:24

I don't know if this is where the cousin stuff

26:26

started, like you know how it ends up in Mean

26:28

Girls Too, but like, oh yeah,

26:31

no, thank you please.

26:32

That I mean, first of all, fuck this

26:34

guy because he full on assaults her, and

26:36

also fuck Preston because Preston walks

26:38

in.

26:38

And does not nothing, do anything,

26:41

nothing.

26:42

And I know I know that he's like assuming that they're

26:44

hooking up, but it's like she's visibly struggling

26:46

and.

26:46

He's like and he's like, oh, she

26:49

doesn't like me. I was like, you don't

26:51

like her, she's gotta assault it. You're

26:53

not doing anything, you fucking lose her.

26:55

Yeah, So what happens here

26:57

is that her cousin, Amanda's

27:00

talking to him about her breakup

27:03

and how it has like affected her sense

27:05

of identity and who is she if she's

27:07

not Mike's girlfriend, and then

27:09

he responds by like surprise,

27:13

incest kissing her and

27:16

she's like, what the fuck, dude, And

27:18

then Preston walks in at the exact wrong

27:20

moment. He assumes that, you know, she's

27:22

just kissing another guy, and

27:25

then he's hurt by this and Preston

27:27

throws the letter away.

27:30

Yeah.

27:30

Then Preston leaves the party and

27:32

he's like moping about how she

27:35

isn't supposed to be with someone else, She's

27:37

supposed to be with him because he

27:39

believes in fate and how there's

27:41

like one person for each of

27:43

us.

27:44

Right, and all of his stuff basically boils

27:46

down to like, she needs to be with me because

27:48

I said so, Like, that's all it

27:50

is.

27:50

Because I fell in love with you when you

27:52

walked in one time. In over

27:55

four years, that love

27:57

has simply just grown. And I

27:59

know I could have talked to you at a locker

28:02

or like a game or

28:04

whatever. I've never been through this many

28:06

rewrites in my entire life that

28:08

he has in this like letter.

28:11

Yeah, because he says he's rewritten

28:13

it like a thousand times or something like that. I

28:15

don't know if that's hyperbole or what, but

28:18

I'm just like, you've never talked to her,

28:21

How do you even know if you like

28:23

her anyway? All Right? So then

28:26

there's a scene where Preston crosses paths

28:29

with a stripper dressed as an

28:31

angel played by Jenna Elfman.

28:33

Incredible.

28:34

She loved the sentence.

28:37

Love the scene.

28:38

Yea She tells him

28:40

about this time when she

28:43

missed her opportunity to talk

28:45

to Scott Bao.

28:48

And very nineteen ninety eight.

28:50

Yeah, and how

28:52

she's always regretted it, and Preston doesn't

28:54

want to make that same mistake, so he

28:56

heads back to the party to try

28:58

to talk to Amanda. Meanwhile,

29:01

the valedictorian kid William

29:04

is getting drunk and letting loose

29:06

for the first time. Mike

29:08

Dexter is annoyed that none

29:11

of the other jocks have broken

29:13

up with their girlfriends yet.

29:15

He's He does not realize how

29:17

bizarre he seems, just marching up to

29:20

couples actively making out and being like,

29:22

I.

29:22

Need to talk to you.

29:23

It's like you are the weirdest

29:25

man in the entire world. The

29:27

movie knows that, but yeah, Mike Dexter

29:30

doesn't.

29:30

Yeah, he like starts to see hisself

29:33

getting sadder by like couple

29:35

three I think, and then he's like, h wait

29:38

a minute, wait.

29:39

Did I make a mistake?

29:41

Sometimes I've like when you see just

29:43

like men do shit like that,

29:46

You're like, give me that confidence for one second.

29:48

Let me do something that sucked up

29:51

and like have no idea.

29:55

Yep, Okay, So Meanwhile, Denise

29:58

is wandering around by herself, having

30:00

trouble like connecting with anyone.

30:02

Seth Green is trying to hit

30:05

on different girls, mostly to no

30:07

avail, until he finds a girl who

30:09

is willing to go to the poolhouse with him,

30:12

so he goes to the bathroom to like get

30:14

ready for sex, but

30:17

then Denise bursts in and

30:20

they get stuck in the bathroom together because

30:22

the door is broken, and so we

30:24

see some scenes with them in the bathroom.

30:27

Denise calls out Seth Green

30:29

what's his character's name, Kenny Kenny

30:31

Kenny, for

30:35

being fake, and she's like, look

30:37

in the mirror, you're white, and

30:39

he's like, what crazy,

30:42

And then we learn that they

30:44

used to be friends, but ever since, like

30:46

high school or middle school, they've kind

30:48

of drifted apart and they don't talk to each other anymore.

30:52

Also, Preston's letter

30:54

to Amanda kind of fatefully

30:57

makes its way back into the

30:59

house because it's like getting stuck on people's

31:01

shoes and like flying around

31:04

the air, and it ends up right in front

31:06

of Amanda, so she picks it up and reads

31:08

it and then she's like, wait, who's Preston

31:11

Myers?

31:12

So she started like exactly exactly

31:14

who indeed, I like how They're

31:17

like, how could you not remember him?

31:18

I'm like, name one memorable

31:20

quality about it? Sorry about this child.

31:23

I will say that, like, that

31:27

scene of the letter passing

31:29

has been one of to me, one of like the

31:31

coolest scenes I've ever seen in like a

31:33

seen movie, because it's just so like

31:36

I don't know something about it. I was just like, this is

31:39

so cool. And I vividly remember

31:42

rewinding that scene so many

31:44

times, like I just thought it was so cool.

31:46

I was like, this is creative flow.

31:49

It's like slightly a Rube Goldberg

31:52

machine kind of thing ish

31:54

or adjacent. Anyway, it is. It's

31:56

visually fun. And so she gets the letter

31:59

and she starts going around asking people

32:01

who and where Preston Myers is,

32:04

but no one gives her a clear answer.

32:06

Right Meanwhile, Mike Dexter

32:09

talks to Jerry O'Connell, who's

32:11

in the movie for a few minutes, and

32:13

Mike Dexter realizes that maybe it

32:16

was a mistake to break up with Amanda based

32:18

on Jerry O'Connell being this like

32:21

former high school stud but now that he's a

32:23

college freshman. None of the girls

32:25

one a day.

32:26

I'm a dozen, so

32:28

I'm sorry.

32:29

He is not a freshman. He

32:30

is thirty thirty.

32:34

Well I looked it up. He and he

32:37

and Seth are the same age. I think that he

32:39

just looks more.

32:41

I don't know, he just looks like, uh,

32:43

he looks older than he is.

32:45

He looks grown as shit. Yeah.

32:47

Like because when they said that, I was

32:49

like, what, No.

32:53

But the name Trip McNeely again,

32:55

incredible. Now that isn't a

32:57

teenager MCA high school kind

33:00

of name, like that

33:02

kid never existed, but he exists in

33:04

high school movies exclusively, Trip

33:07

McNeely.

33:08

Wasn't there another Trip in

33:11

another movie? Like a teen movie? Trip

33:14

was like two p's. Wait, I'm

33:16

pretty sure, but I can't remember.

33:19

I wrote Trip character. What

33:22

that's not helpful? Trip Fontaine

33:24

from the Virgin Suicide.

33:26

That's who it is, because I am obsessed

33:28

with the Virgin.

33:30

That was nice, jeeus

33:33

we did ladies, we did.

33:35

It was that

33:37

was solid.

33:38

Wow, Josh, that's even the Josh Hartnett

33:41

character in the Virgin Suicide.

33:43

Virgin Suicide.

33:44

Yeah, we got there. Wow, here's

33:46

what I did, Trip character.

33:48

Then I clicked on the Wikipedia

33:50

page for Trip. Then I went to the subsection

33:53

fictional characters.

33:54

For trip it was that easy, You

33:57

didn't.

33:57

Trip McNeely does not appear on

34:00

this list.

34:00

Unfortunately, Okay, trip

34:02

erasure much the

34:05

way. Okay, So Mike

34:08

Dexter realizes it was a mistake

34:10

to break up with Amanda, so he

34:12

goes and tries to get back together

34:15

with her by surprise kissing her,

34:17

and she's like ooh, no, like we're

34:19

through and you're an egotistical

34:22

asshole. And then after that, because

34:24

like everyone was watching this whole scene

34:26

play out, a bunch of boys go up

34:28

to Amanda and try to get with her and

34:31

she's like, ooh, get away from me. And

34:33

this is also when Preston returns and

34:36

like rushes over to Amanda,

34:39

and he finally works up the courage to tell

34:41

her that he loves her. But because

34:43

she's so fed up with all of this unwonted

34:46

male attention, she's like, what

34:48

you think I'm just gonna have sex with you?

34:51

Think again you lose her? And

34:53

you're like, yeah, fair, I mean fair.

34:55

Fair, Yeah, she was right, but also

34:57

she's that's who she's been.

34:59

Looking for, Yeah, exactly. She

35:02

doesn't realize that. She does not realize that he's

35:05

Preston Meyers, the guy who wrote the letter

35:07

and who she's been asking around about,

35:10

and she's rejected him nonetheless,

35:13

and so Preston is so so

35:15

so sad, and he runs away.

35:19

We cut back to the bathroom, and

35:22

now Denise and Seth Green

35:24

are kind of vibing, and

35:26

then he surprise kisses her, because

35:29

there are so many surprise kisses

35:31

in this movie.

35:32

So many surprise kisses.

35:34

Yeah, in the nineties in general.

35:37

The nineties, Yeah, in general, especially

35:39

teen film.

35:40

Yeah. But she actually likes it,

35:42

and then they start making out and then they

35:44

have sex using the

35:47

various memorabilia

35:49

from his weird back pinky back.

35:52

Yeah.

35:53

Cut back to Amanda

35:56

for Denise, who looks up

35:58

Preston in the yearbook and she realizes

36:01

that he's the guy who she just lashed

36:03

out at and she's like, oh no,

36:06

So she goes around trying to find him, but

36:09

the cops show up at the party and

36:11

it breaks up the party. Everyone scatters

36:14

and Preston has already left.

36:17

So the next day, Preston and

36:20

Denise are hanging out.

36:22

She tells Preston that she had sex with Seth

36:24

Green, and he's like, why'd

36:28

you do that, yeah.

36:30

Which also like who are you I

36:33

mean right again talking a big game

36:35

and for what it took you

36:37

four years?

36:38

Yeah?

36:39

Right?

36:40

And then Preston tells Denise

36:43

that things didn't work out with him and

36:45

Amanda. I guess it just wasn't meant

36:47

to be. And he's about to leave

36:50

for college slash a

36:52

Kurt Vonnegut workshop in

36:54

Boston, so he's like leaving that

36:57

day.

36:57

And he's also at like Union Station.

37:00

I was like, you're about to be on the train ride

37:02

of a lifetime if you're taking a train

37:05

to Boston whatever.

37:07

I know that that's not where the movie takes place, but it is

37:09

visibly Union Station.

37:12

And then we tie up some other loose

37:14

ends with characters.

37:17

We get some text that tells us

37:19

what their future holds. For example,

37:22

William goes to Harvard and

37:24

forms a multimillion dollar software

37:26

company, and it's like, okay, Mark

37:29

Zuckerberg vies.

37:31

Yeah, not rooting for

37:33

him.

37:34

And then also I thought, like a pretty harsh

37:36

ending for Mike Dexter, both

37:39

William and Mike. You're like, it's very

37:41

like Revenge of the Nerds era, like geekshell

37:44

inherit the Earth?

37:45

Yeah right?

37:46

And then yeah, because Mike Dexter's

37:48

he like becomes a loser.

37:50

But there's a lot of like body

37:53

shaming and.

37:54

Like class light class shaming.

37:56

Yeah, class shaming, making light of alcohol

37:59

addiction, all of this stuff to like,

38:01

you know, imply that he's a loser. Now we

38:04

see a little text about Denise

38:06

and Seth Green and they're like on

38:08

again, off again relationship. And

38:10

then the movie ends with Preston

38:13

at the train station and who

38:15

shows up but Amanda

38:18

with the letter he wrote, and

38:20

she's like, damn, you're leaving. Huh,

38:23

well maybe this is how it was supposed

38:25

to be. Bye, And

38:28

he's like damn, yeah, bye. But

38:30

then he's like, wait a minute, No, that's

38:32

the love of my life. So then he turns

38:35

around and he runs after her, and

38:37

then they kiss and they're

38:39

still together to this day.

38:41

And she writes him letters or something and.

38:44

You're like, oh, we not

38:46

do we not know what she's gonna do with her

38:49

life? No, we don't.

38:50

She writes him letters. That's what she does.

38:52

She writes letters. That's her literal

38:55

life.

38:55

Wow, feminism, another

38:58

wind for feminism.

39:00

Let's take another quick break and we'll come back

39:02

to discuss.

39:14

And we're back Shelly, is there any

39:16

particular place you would like to start.

39:19

Yes, I definitely want

39:21

to start with Kenny

39:24

in his Kenny's

39:27

introduction, right, Okay,

39:29

So when I was watching this movie,

39:32

like when I first watched it, I'm

39:35

in middle school, right, I don't

39:37

think I had the words for like what cultural

39:39

appropriation was. I just knew

39:41

that he was like pretending to be black, right,

39:44

So I don't know how

39:46

at the time, with my young mind,

39:49

young age, how offended

39:52

I was, because I was just like, he

39:55

also wasn't the main part of the story that I

39:57

was that I cared about, you know. So

40:00

I was just like, this is weird

40:02

because every time he came on, the music

40:04

in the background switched to like hip hop or

40:06

like something R and B and all

40:09

that stuff. So what I

40:11

rewatched it like a few years

40:13

ago, I was like, uh

40:16

oh, Like I

40:19

was just I remember being like, oh

40:21

shit, this is so bad. And then

40:23

as I watched the movie more, I

40:26

realized that when I originally watched it when I

40:28

was a kid, this movie was the first time

40:31

I started realizing pairings of black

40:33

people, right, like even

40:35

in something like Clueless, which it's so obvious,

40:38

like you know, Dionne is with her boyfriend,

40:40

you know what I'm saying. I was like, oh,

40:43

that's like fine. But then I

40:45

started realizing the purposeful

40:47

pairings of like the black characters,

40:50

and I just thought that was so interesting

40:52

because obviously I saw him this movie too, because they are

40:54

the only two black people in the school and the popular

40:56

group like Mike Dexter's friends

40:58

and Amanda's friends. Like her

41:01

name is Tamara, she's also in

41:04

the Wood and stuff like that. I realized

41:07

her character.

41:07

Yeah, but like I.

41:09

Don't know, I think it's just so interesting that young

41:11

me did it not clock that about

41:14

Kenny but didn't wasn't

41:16

fully like upset, like I think gen

41:19

Z would be like if this happened, if

41:21

this movie came out now, so many things obviously,

41:23

but if that part of the movie happened,

41:26

I think a young eleven year

41:28

old watching it would still be like a

41:31

young black eleven year old watching it would be

41:33

like, ah, this is terrible,

41:36

like he shouldn't be doing that. But at the time,

41:38

I just remember being like, this

41:40

is weird, but he's not my focus.

41:43

So I just thought it was so odd that

41:45

that was such a choice of

41:47

a character. Yes, it was

41:50

and I wonder, like you said,

41:52

like there was let you

41:54

know, especially as like a middle school age

41:57

person, there wasn't quite the

41:59

same length whige around cultural appropriation

42:02

as there is now, and you know, it's

42:04

not something that necessarily tweens

42:07

are thinking about that much. But

42:09

also I wonder if it has anything to do

42:12

with the fact that, like this was like

42:14

a pretty like white

42:16

people appropriating black culture

42:18

and like speaking in aave

42:22

and like wearing fubuu and listening

42:24

to exclusively hip hop and stuff like that. Like this

42:27

was a movement. It was a horrible

42:30

movement. Yeah, Like it was a thing that for

42:32

the time felt normalized quote

42:34

unquote, just because like a lot of people were

42:36

doing it and you saw characters like this on screen

42:39

and movies from this era.

42:41

It was such a thing.

42:43

It was again, it was a horrible thing to have been normalized.

42:45

But yeah, it was a thing.

42:48

Yeah. I think the reason I didn't

42:50

like maybe the reason

42:53

why I did. I knew that it was a thing because I did

42:55

see it. But in my everyday life, right, Like

42:57

I went to a mostly black school and stuff

42:59

like that, so it was it was

43:01

kind of like if there was a white boy

43:03

in our school and was acting like that. It

43:05

kind of was like, that's who he is versus

43:09

A few years later, I went to a school

43:11

called Oak Park High School, and

43:13

then there was Cranbrooke High School

43:16

not well sorry, Seahome, Birmingham,

43:18

Seahome or whatever, and they were

43:20

a fancy school and we would do this

43:22

is so weird to talk about now, but

43:25

we would once a year they

43:27

would have a select group of students

43:29

come to our school and we would

43:31

go to theirs for like a few

43:34

days.

43:34

That sounds like a movie, it.

43:36

Is, And it was like to us,

43:38

it was cool to go see their shit because they had

43:40

like a really fancy school and all.

43:43

But to them it was like what

43:46

were they learning, you know what I'm saying,

43:48

Other than being like, oh, they're here a bunch of poor kids.

43:50

So I remember like going there and stuff. People

43:52

would be like, there's white boys

43:54

doing this weird shit over

43:57

there, like like and

43:59

it was like they were the Kennis

44:01

and shit like that. But at our school,

44:04

if the white boys were doing it, it was kind of

44:06

just like, I don't know, a product of the environment.

44:08

It was a little bit. It wasn't as fake, you

44:11

know what I mean. So when I was watching

44:13

this. It kind of made me be. When I was younger,

44:16

I just didn't clock it, you know what I mean. But

44:18

now I was even today when I was

44:20

rewatching it again, I was like, oh

44:23

my god, this is so bad.

44:25

This is it's so bad.

44:27

It's like I

44:29

first of all that high school switch thing.

44:31

That's gonna stick with me because what.

44:34

Yes, well that's kind of the premise.

44:36

Have you seen that show jam or Jama?

44:39

Is that what it is? It's a spin off of Summer

44:42

Heights High. It's an Australian comedy

44:44

show.

44:45

Oh oh, I know it're talking about in

44:47

incredible It's one of my

44:50

favorite shows of all time. But yes,

44:52

it's similar to that, and we would do

44:54

it like Oak Park, Hi, I would do it with Birmingham

44:56

Seahome and you know we

44:58

would see their fancy pool and

45:01

like their top like of the line

45:03

of computer lab and like. But thinking

45:06

about it now, it's like when they came to us, they

45:08

were what being

45:10

grateful for what they had, like

45:13

you know what I mean?

45:14

Right, it's like not and I don't.

45:16

I'm like, and what is the supposed

45:18

takeaway from that supposed to be like other

45:21

than like systemic anger? But it's

45:23

like, do kids have language

45:25

for that at that time?

45:26

No, because we were in high school at

45:29

that time. This is like early two thousands,

45:31

you're just like, oh shit, they have a

45:33

computer lab with all colorful

45:35

max. You know what I mean? Right, Like

45:38

we weren't at least I wasn't taken away

45:40

anything from it other than being like, I want

45:43

a computer room with colorful.

45:44

Max, right right, I mean it's like, yeah,

45:47

I think when I was in high school, might

45:49

take away would have been like, oh fuck these rich kids,

45:51

fuck them, I'm mad at them, I hate them, and

45:53

not like why do we not get

45:55

access to this exactly?

45:57

I don't know.

45:59

It's almost like children are not operating.

46:01

But I feel like I hope maybe today's kids

46:03

are are a little different

46:06

or at least like are a little more.

46:07

Conditioned to think that way for sure.

46:09

With Kenny, yeah, I'm

46:13

interested to talk about him because Kaitlin

46:15

and I agree that it's like this. It's

46:18

not like this movie invented

46:20

this stock character. This was definitely

46:23

I mean I knew versions

46:26

of this kid. Yeah, And I feel like a

46:28

lot like if you went to I don't

46:30

know, can't speak to high schools now bravely,

46:34

but in the span of time that

46:36

we were growing up. It's like these kids existed.

46:39

I guess that it's like, and I'm not I

46:41

don't necessarily object to

46:43

an attempt to, but it just

46:45

felt like there's no real comment happening.

46:48

There's like it approaches, like Denise calls

46:50

him out, yes, but that kind

46:52

of doesn't go anywhere.

46:53

I don't know, that doesn't go anywhere because she has sex

46:55

with him too. Such she had sex with.

46:57

Them, Yeah, she with Denise.

46:59

Yeah.

46:59

How do we feel about how that

47:02

play is out? Because I was, I was. I

47:04

was honestly surprised that it was called

47:06

out at all.

47:08

Same. Well, then, the other thing

47:10

that sort of is approaching commentary

47:12

but not really is the scene where

47:15

Kenny's friends are

47:17

standing among god

47:19

black kids, Yes, and

47:22

one of them says the N word.

47:24

Yes.

47:24

I think he's attempting to use it as a term

47:26

of endearment, but the black kids are like, what

47:28

the fuck you can't say that? Yeah, and then

47:30

they chase him away.

47:32

Yeah. And I think that's the only kind

47:34

of commentary that was ever in nineties

47:37

and early two thousands teens film while you're

47:39

talking about race. It was like they had

47:42

to have a white person say the N word

47:44

or like they had to, they had to

47:46

make that person like make

47:49

black people angry. And that was the

47:51

only way to include black teens in a

47:53

film was if you were using

47:55

them to like again further the plot of a

47:57

white character that probably should not have been created

48:00

in the first place, and those black kids

48:02

don't get any lines, like you know what I mean,

48:05

Like it's not even Rewatching

48:08

nineties and twenty teens film always

48:10

makes me realize, like, because

48:13

how much we weren't in the movies, you

48:15

know what I mean, how much like a black present unless

48:17

it's like a Save the Last Dance, But like again,

48:20

that is pushing forward the plot of Julia styles

48:23

like that's she for sure everything

48:26

was around around that, but

48:28

it was what I had access to. It's

48:30

what I wanted to see and like all

48:32

that kind of stuff. But in this movie, specifically,

48:34

the amount of like fake blackness

48:37

or attempt to like put black people

48:39

black teens in a teen

48:41

film, it was so bad.

48:43

It's so it's like just unbelievably

48:46

at best misguided, because it's like, yeah, we

48:48

have two white writer directors,

48:51

and I mean I feel like it says everything

48:54

that they include Kenny, and I

48:56

would say, like he's a I don't know, he's a more

48:58

memorable character than like,

49:01

yeah, he's I knew about

49:03

this Seth Green character.

49:04

I did not know about the Ethan Embry character.

49:07

And so for him to have such a large

49:09

portion in the story and for

49:11

his character to be so defined by

49:14

how much he's appropriating black

49:16

culture, and then also like seeing him

49:18

effortlessly you know, like

49:21

take it on and off as as needed.

49:24

Like in the bathroom that was the

49:26

switch, right, It blew

49:28

my mind.

49:29

And then it's like, so to put that much energy

49:32

into bringing that character to life while

49:35

making no effort to characterize

49:37

any of the black teenagers.

49:39

That or black twenty four year olds whatever.

49:41

That populate this party,

49:43

because it's not a like it's

49:46

it's more diverse than I you

49:48

normally.

49:49

See in a nineties teen movie. But

49:51

but the focus is all on

49:54

the white characters.

49:55

Yeah, even though you have so many famous nineties

49:58

black actors at this.

49:59

Party, especially, and

50:01

it was really wild too, like even

50:04

when they were talking to Donald Fazon when he

50:06

was he called him a hoodie, you know what I mean,

50:08

Like the bandmate called him HOODI after he called

50:11

him, like the white artists formerly

50:13

known as Prince. And it's always something

50:15

like like that, like a black person has

50:17

to be like agitated in order to be

50:19

included. Sorry, a black teen fake

50:22

as they may be age wise in these movies,

50:24

has to be agitated in order

50:26

to be included. Same thing

50:28

for even bigger movies like Bring It On,

50:31

like that whole situation they

50:34

were stealing from them and it had to be a

50:36

whole you know what I mean.

50:38

It's just still a great movie. But

50:40

it's always been like that in teen

50:42

films, even mean Girls, the unfriendly

50:45

black hotties. Are they unfriendly or

50:47

do they like not want to fuck

50:49

with you because you're like boring, like

50:52

you know what I mean, like.

50:53

Sky or like directing micro or

50:56

macro aggressions at them constantly.

50:58

Like constantly, like you're

51:00

putting that label on them, and they have to

51:03

be agitated in order to get a reaction or

51:05

to be included in these narratives. And it was it's

51:08

less now because everybody's so focused

51:10

on like DEI and all this kind of stuff like that, like

51:12

the New Main Girls and all that. But in

51:15

the nineties they were like, no, let's just

51:17

make black people mad, like it

51:19

was mask off.

51:20

Yeah, Like, and even on top

51:22

of like it relying on agitating

51:26

black teenagers in order for them to participate,

51:28

anything that was said to or

51:31

by a black character was connected

51:33

to race, like because and I think

51:36

that that is just an extension of like these

51:38

two white writers cannot conceive

51:41

of what the inner.

51:44

Life of a black teenager would be.

51:45

And it's like, well, no, maybe

51:47

they just discuss their own

51:50

race in every interaction.

51:52

I'm like, what.

51:53

Even in the scene

51:56

too, And I mean, this might be a little

51:58

bit of a reach, but even in scene

52:00

where Mike pulls away the two guys

52:02

when they're dancing with their girlfriends and Jamie

52:04

Presley and I think

52:07

her name is Tamara, I don't.

52:09

Want to, I really Tamala Tamala

52:11

Jones.

52:12

Tamala Jones. Yeah, where Tamala Jones and Jamie

52:14

Presley start dancing together while they're all the boys

52:16

are having a conversation. Ye, Like I said,

52:18

this may be a reach, but they're dancing to wild things

52:20

and then essentially, like the black girl

52:23

starts to like pretend to tap

52:25

Jamie's ass while she's like twerking

52:27

on her a little bit. I don't know, you

52:29

feel me, like it's something like yea, even

52:31

that kind of micro like, oh, this

52:34

is how black girls be dancing, like and

52:36

then.

52:37

There's I'm trying to remember the last

52:39

time we had this discussion.

52:41

And again it does feel and like correct

52:44

me if I'm wrong, but

52:46

like it does feel like it's very inherent

52:48

to this era too, where it's it

52:51

just feels clear that it's like casting

52:53

wise, this movie is not going

52:55

to make an interracial

52:57

couple happen, not like it's the

53:00

black teens state black teens, the white teens date

53:02

white teens, and that is

53:04

like the movie is not gonna

53:07

attempt no anything else, which

53:09

actually kind of like if you consider the fact that

53:11

it's gonna be another three years until

53:14

Save the Last Dance comes out, which like

53:16

whiffs this same that like it attempt

53:19

at an interracial teen couple tremendously,

53:21

which she could listen to our episode that either just came

53:24

out or was about to come out about Save the Last

53:26

Dance.

53:27

It's just like a it's a bad era.

53:29

It's a bad era for sure.

53:31

It's bad. And that's what I mean by like

53:33

that was the first time that I like notice

53:37

the pairings of like, oh, black

53:39

teen, black teen black teen, black teen,

53:41

you know what I mean? So, and it's like,

53:44

then what happened was we started getting

53:46

movies like what's

53:48

the one with Christina Milian Love

53:50

Don't cost a Thing, where it's

53:52

like there are two per characters.

53:55

Yeah, it's like there are two black characters

53:57

as in a teen movie, but she

54:00

fair skin and like got soft

54:03

hair, you know what I mean, And like

54:06

it's that whole vibe and we get it. And

54:08

that's in two thousand and three. The

54:10

only one that I can think of that even

54:13

I think, has done so well with a mono racial,

54:16

dark skinned black couple and they aren't even

54:18

teenagers is Rylane. Rylane

54:20

is one of my favorite movies of all time. And

54:23

if y'all haven't watched it, you should watch it. It's

54:25

like it just came out last year. It's yes,

54:28

I saw it at Sundance. I'm sorry to throw out that conversation,

54:31

but we have to watch it. It's

54:33

done so well,

54:35

and it's black and it's British and it's incredible

54:38

and you should just watch. It's on Hulu.

54:39

So nice, Okay, Yeah, but yeah,

54:41

I mean the reluctance to put

54:45

anything on screen besides

54:47

like a very rigid, very

54:50

stereotypical scenario

54:53

when it comes to representation

54:56

of race on screen across all movies,

54:58

across all genres in

55:00

this era and beyond, in teen

55:02

movies, when they often have like a big

55:05

ensemble cast or like groups

55:08

of friends, like the boy has

55:10

his popular guy friends and then

55:12

the then there's the group of popular girls.

55:14

So you have like a lot of

55:17

characters and therefore a lot of opportunities

55:19

to show a lot of different types

55:22

of people. But the boxes that

55:24

people get put in, and it's

55:27

often again like favoring whiteness

55:30

or light skin in general. It's

55:32

you know, not exploring relationship

55:35

dynamics that exist

55:38

in the world, such as interracial

55:40

couples. It's just like, well, obviously only

55:42

the black kids would date the other black

55:44

kids, or you know, stuff like that, and

55:47

it's it's just still rigid.

55:50

We still see these weird, rigid

55:53

boxes that we.

55:55

Were talking about that off mic before before

55:57

we started recording, where it's like still very much

56:00

an issue, and I think it's like, it is freaky

56:03

to.

56:03

See it laid out so unquestionably.

56:07

Clear, especially

56:09

with a character like

56:11

Kenny in as prominent a role as

56:13

he is.

56:14

It's just like kind

56:16

of unbelievable.

56:17

Because it's a huge role. It's also

56:19

there was like an interracial couple

56:22

in this movie. I just realized that

56:24

that one guy that was kind of a creep,

56:26

the black guy in Melissa Joanhart's

56:28

character. They end up linking

56:30

up at the end true in

56:33

the cafe because they're both like just hyper.

56:35

They love most school, they love memories,

56:38

remember.

56:39

That time that blah blah blah, and they're like, wow,

56:41

I love having a memory, which.

56:44

He was kind of a creep, but I was like, I

56:46

don't hate that end game because

56:48

she was like not a creep.

56:49

But they're definitely both weirdos

56:52

and you're always part of of.

56:54

Like it may be the coupling that

56:56

ultimately makes the most.

56:59

And it's just like they were the ones who,

57:01

like, I mean, you just couldn't leave the

57:03

movie without having an interracial

57:06

couple. They were like, we do it too,

57:08

And maybe that was the start of all of them in

57:10

teen movies. Maybe it was Melissa jo and

57:12

Hard and maybe that's what it was.

57:14

I kind of forgot that I did. I watched this movie

57:16

twice and I totally forgot it.

57:18

Also, like if you blink, you miss it.

57:20

Yeah, that's I mean, it's like they're not. Yeah,

57:23

I think that it's like the amount of real estate,

57:26

and it's like I think Seth Green does

57:28

great with what he's given, but it's like

57:30

he does though it's not going I mean,

57:32

if it was going somewhere, I

57:34

don't know. I mean we'll never know. We'll never know if

57:37

that was ever going to go somewhere because it's just like

57:39

this movie, for all the things

57:41

I like about it, it's like not not only

57:43

not built to have that conversation, but has no interest

57:46

in any meaningful commentary.

57:48

Well, because the whole movie

57:51

hinges on tropes

57:53

and stereotypes and clicks of high

57:55

school students. You know, you got

57:57

the jock kids, you've got the nerds,

58:00

you've got the popular girls, and none

58:02

of that is particularly challenged.

58:05

I would say, like Preston,

58:08

he like doesn't really fit into a group.

58:11

But other than that, because he's

58:13

not like unpopular, he's

58:15

just not he's just he's just kind of coasting,

58:18

forgettable.

58:19

Yeah, that's my issue with him, is he is

58:21

just like he is.

58:22

I feel like he's the stereotype of like teenage

58:25

everyman, Like he's just there. I mean,

58:27

it's not Ethan Embry's fault, but

58:29

it's just like he's just

58:32

there.

58:32

He's just there. And then again,

58:35

stereotypes about jocks are like put

58:38

there and not questioned or challenge.

58:40

You know, their their meatheads, they're bullies, they

58:43

don't have any interests outside of sports

58:45

and sex.

58:46

But again, you get like a little like

58:48

glimpse into like maybe this is

58:51

going somewhere, and it's super over the top. I'm not

58:53

saying it's necessarily like super

58:55

well done, but in those moments where it's

58:57

like the jock and the nerd are hanging

58:59

out together and they're having this like real

59:02

kind of like intense conversation, You're like,

59:04

oh, this is kind of cool

59:07

where it's like they're kind of attempting

59:09

to reconcile. He's trying to drunkenly

59:12

acknowledge that he's been

59:14

horrible to William,

59:17

and like they're having a conversation that you're like,

59:19

oh, this is like moments like that, I'm like, oh,

59:21

I wouldn't have expected that in this movie,

59:24

and I wasn't even really upset

59:27

by how that resets at the

59:30

end. That felt unfortunately kind of true

59:32

to life of like, oh that

59:34

was just one time and like, technically,

59:37

Mike Dexter did do him a kindness

59:39

by not endangering his scholarship

59:42

and like making sure he didn't get in trouble and taking

59:44

the fall for him, and like that's a really kind

59:46

thing.

59:46

To have done.

59:48

And then when they see each other

59:50

the next time, the dynamic is reset,

59:52

Mike Dexter doesn't and that felt

59:54

like unfortunately, like I didn't

59:56

hate that beat because it felt more realistic

59:59

than.

1:00:00

Mike Dexter being like, wait, you guys,

1:00:02

like that's not.

1:00:02

Who he is. We're friends. Yeah, I

1:00:05

bought it, Yeah, I definitely bought it.

1:00:06

The thing that I thought was really cruel was

1:00:09

like learning what happens

1:00:11

to Mike Dexter after that, that felt like the

1:00:13

movie being like he deserves

1:00:16

this, this like very again. It's like it

1:00:18

felt like there was that whole sequence

1:00:20

where it felt like the jock nerd stereotypes

1:00:23

were being challenged, but

1:00:25

where we leave, both of those characters

1:00:27

are both very in line with what those

1:00:29

stereotypes are. He grows up

1:00:32

to like, you know, he's a cool nerd

1:00:34

now and he's a supermodeled girlfriend. Meanwhile,

1:00:36

this guy like it's all of

1:00:38

these prescriptive, like his life didn't

1:00:41

turn out as well.

1:00:42

He peaked in high school the way.

1:00:44

Right, And that's what I was gonna say, Yeah,

1:00:46

you would think that he would like

1:00:48

high school was all that they had. And

1:00:50

I think that goes to like the

1:00:52

writers too. You can always tell how a

1:00:54

writer feels or felt about

1:00:57

somebody in high school, you

1:00:59

know what I mean, And like, so you

1:01:01

can't tell me that these people aren't

1:01:04

sort of either writing Jennifer

1:01:06

love Hewitt's character in a way of like,

1:01:08

oh I wish I wasn't Amanda Beckett, and

1:01:11

then writing what happens to

1:01:13

Mike in a way of like somebody

1:01:15

that really fucked them over, that probably made it

1:01:18

and whatever made it sense means to

1:01:20

them. But in this movie that I'm

1:01:22

writing.

1:01:23

Like they lose, Yeah, you lose.

1:01:26

You know. You can always tell that

1:01:29

in movies. And what I

1:01:31

was gonna say about the whole like Mike

1:01:33

and the nerdy guy

1:01:36

situation was rewatching.

1:01:39

Like honestly, a few years later this time I

1:01:41

remembered it. I was like, Oh, that happens is

1:01:43

all of the like queer shit

1:01:46

that was just that is bad, like

1:01:48

because when they the pictures were supposed to

1:01:50

be him getting caught out not

1:01:52

just like in a kinky thing, but like with

1:01:55

the guy is the thing that is so bad?

1:01:58

And then like Kenny's

1:02:00

friends, they dropped the F bomb twice

1:02:03

in ten minutes into the movie.

1:02:05

They call Kenny one when they're

1:02:07

on the store, and I think again at

1:02:10

the party when they're like eating

1:02:13

chips, So yeah, that

1:02:15

kind of stuff. And then I saw Claire Duval and I

1:02:17

was like, wait, we all

1:02:19

know who she is, Like it's

1:02:22

so I think this was one of the first movies where

1:02:24

I like couldn't really pick up

1:02:26

on anything that I was like queer

1:02:29

coded. I think the only thing I reacted

1:02:32

to was when the girlfriends

1:02:34

were dancing together. When I

1:02:36

was younger, I was like, hmm,

1:02:39

wait a minute, that's that

1:02:41

looks fun, like you know what I mean,

1:02:43

where it's the whole girls trying to get attention

1:02:46

from the guys sort of thing. But that

1:02:49

was the only sort of because I always like think and

1:02:51

look back to like is there any queerness in these movies

1:02:53

that I was like attached to, But

1:02:55

this one I kind of was like no, not

1:02:57

really.

1:02:58

Not really, which is wild because this is the team

1:03:00

that goes on to make Josie and the.

1:03:01

Pussycats, which is so wild

1:03:03

to be they're just forming up.

1:03:06

Hello Caitlin from the future. Jumping

1:03:08

in here with a little editing

1:03:11

note. So, in the original episode

1:03:13

that we released, we have a discussion

1:03:15

right here about Denise

1:03:18

based on me misunderstanding

1:03:20

and mishearing a line of dialogue

1:03:23

in the movie. Some listeners

1:03:25

pointed out this goof of mine,

1:03:28

and we just decided to cut

1:03:30

that part of the conversation from the episode

1:03:32

because it's based on something

1:03:35

that's not at all canon to the movie, and

1:03:37

it's based on me not hearing

1:03:39

dialogue very well, So we

1:03:41

didn't want to mislead listeners,

1:03:44

So you know, we just thought it best to

1:03:46

remove that part of the conversation. But

1:03:48

it did bring us back to the topic

1:03:50

of the Denise character, so

1:03:53

we'll just jump back in where

1:03:55

that conversation picks back up.

1:03:58

So back to the

1:04:00

episode.

1:04:02

But it just, I mean, I think it just at my core

1:04:06

pains me. I've mean in the same way where anytime

1:04:08

you see a cool girl who deserves

1:04:10

the best end up with the

1:04:13

Kenny Fishers of the world, it

1:04:15

just like it really and I feel

1:04:17

like the movie is at least a little more self aware about

1:04:19

that. Because it references the fact that like they're not gonna

1:04:22

stay together I hope forever

1:04:24

where they're like they broa gout, they got back together. So

1:04:26

it's like it seems like it's a summer before college

1:04:29

kind.

1:04:29

Of thing situation.

1:04:30

Yeah, but it's still it hurts to

1:04:32

see a girl like Dedise Fleming

1:04:35

who just really has everything going for her.

1:04:37

Quite literally, like truly.

1:04:41

Well, also like it feels to me like

1:04:43

the movie is kind of setting

1:04:46

up some arc for her where she goes

1:04:48

to the party that she's reluctant to go to. You

1:04:51

see her just kind of like walking

1:04:53

around by herself. She retreats

1:04:55

into herself the way that you know many

1:04:57

introverted people do. She has a hard time,

1:05:00

you know, striking up conversations. And so

1:05:02

I'm hoping because I didn't

1:05:04

totally remember how the different events

1:05:06

of this story played out. As I was prepping

1:05:09

for this episode, I was like, oh, hopefully

1:05:11

like she meets

1:05:13

a friend. It would be nice if she had a female

1:05:16

friend who she could connect to.

1:05:18

And it stinks because I do like how

1:05:20

the structure of this movie allows for like

1:05:22

B and C plot, Like it feels like, in

1:05:24

a way just kind of like a really long TV episode,

1:05:27

because like what's going on with Denise and Kenny.

1:05:30

Is just like an episode of something.

1:05:32

Yes, it's just a bottle episode happening in

1:05:34

the middle of this larger narrative, and I like

1:05:37

that, but I just don't like the stories.

1:05:38

That they're choosing to plug in there.

1:05:40

Because even if we're talking about, like, say

1:05:42

anything, a movie that I'm not like over the

1:05:45

mood about, but we talked about it recently and I

1:05:47

think that like its influencers are really clearly

1:05:50

felt in this movie. But like the

1:05:52

friendship between Lloyd Dobbler

1:05:55

and his best friend

1:05:57

Corey is like we

1:06:00

we'd talked about. I mean, it's weird to

1:06:02

the extent that like his like

1:06:04

best friend is just like it seems like her

1:06:06

whole thing is talking about how much how

1:06:08

awesome Lloyd Doppler is. But it's

1:06:11

clear you get a lot of moments with them

1:06:13

where it's like, this is a very warm friendship

1:06:16

that is platonic, and like you

1:06:18

never see that in teen movies, and theoretically

1:06:21

that's what we're getting with Preston and Denise, but we

1:06:23

don't actually see them together very much.

1:06:25

And I feel like that was another thing with Denise, that

1:06:27

just goes under explored where you It

1:06:29

sucks because I think the two actors have really good

1:06:32

chemistry and you can feels like

1:06:34

a real high school friendship, but they're

1:06:36

separated for so long in these

1:06:39

like romantic entanglements that it are

1:06:41

not I'm bored by

1:06:43

one kind of grossed up by the other.

1:06:46

Yeah, and it's like I

1:06:48

really do wish we had And also

1:06:50

what's is uh Evan Embury's character like for

1:06:53

the if you really look at watch the movie,

1:06:55

he's also not in it like them,

1:06:57

Like his story is not super focused. I

1:06:59

feel like they thought like they wrote it

1:07:01

in a way where they were just like, oh, you know that he's

1:07:04

trying to do this thing, so we don't

1:07:06

really have to like fully focus on him.

1:07:08

And we know it's gonna happen, and it's.

1:07:10

Going to happen, so we don't have to really

1:07:12

tell you all that. But I do think that you're right,

1:07:15

Jamie. Their friendship was like he

1:07:17

knows the ins and outs of who she is, Like she

1:07:19

didn't why she didn't really want to go, she

1:07:21

knew about this fucking letter he's been writing.

1:07:24

And then like we don't get

1:07:26

to see them really interact other than

1:07:28

something that's a little bit like angry because she

1:07:30

don't want to be there. She's dragged

1:07:32

there and all that ditches her.

1:07:34

And he ditches her so like immediately,

1:07:37

and she doesn't even get the opportunity to,

1:07:39

like, which would fill in stuck with her character be

1:07:41

like fuck you, Yeah, I didn't want

1:07:43

to be here and then you bailed on me to go

1:07:45

talk to someone who doesn't know you exist.

1:07:47

Fuck you, Like no,

1:07:50

yeah, And I don't think that. I don't think

1:07:52

in like new routine films either,

1:07:54

that we really like I mean, there are more

1:07:56

like platonic friendships between like people

1:07:59

of like the opposite and stuff like that, but

1:08:02

it's always I still feel

1:08:04

like it gets still very like slapsticky where

1:08:06

they're like somebody has to be queer, and

1:08:08

like that is why, like it still falls

1:08:10

into the whole like I'm straight and

1:08:12

this is my queer best friend,

1:08:14

and that is why we are

1:08:17

platonic, not just because we

1:08:20

are just fucking friends, you know what I

1:08:22

mean. It's always something else,

1:08:25

like there's another reason why of course they wouldn't

1:08:28

be dating. Of course they're just friends.

1:08:30

So yeah, it's really

1:08:32

frustrating. And then and then in the other

1:08:35

corner we have Preston

1:08:37

and Amanda and I

1:08:40

I don't.

1:08:41

Know, So we've sort of touched

1:08:43

on this a little bit already, where

1:08:46

I like, don't dislike Amanda

1:08:48

as a character. Again, we get more from

1:08:50

her than I was expecting it

1:08:53

just the plot ultimately, I think kind

1:08:55

of bails on her because I thought that in the scene

1:08:57

before it turns into cousin

1:08:59

ins. But this scene where

1:09:01

she's like explaining for like,

1:09:04

I, you know, wasn't a popular

1:09:06

girl in middle school. It wasn't until I moved to

1:09:08

this school, and like was sort of like

1:09:11

selected quote unquote to be.

1:09:13

A popular girl.

1:09:14

And I don't want to end this relationship

1:09:16

because I don't know how to define myself.

1:09:18

Outside of it. Like it was pretty like

1:09:20

I was like into that.

1:09:23

I like that.

1:09:24

I mean you could argue in comparison

1:09:26

to the other popular girls, she's

1:09:29

very not like other girl types because

1:09:32

the other women are really like bimbo

1:09:34

stereotyped, and they like very vapideously

1:09:38

turn on each other if

1:09:40

male attention is on

1:09:43

the table, and so I found

1:09:45

that frustrating.

1:09:46

Although it is subversive that one

1:09:48

of the popular girls has seen the

1:09:50

movie twelve monkeys and

1:09:52

can speak to it like.

1:09:54

It's true she hasn't

1:09:56

in her life let her speak.

1:09:58

I don't I hate Amanda. I

1:10:01

do hate that she's like I

1:10:04

always, like I said, I always was like she was the one

1:10:06

where I was like, oh, I want to be her,

1:10:08

you know, And I think I hated the

1:10:10

only thing I hated now,

1:10:13

But I probably really wanted that she was

1:10:15

like hot but secret smart,

1:10:17

you know what I'm saying, Like she secretly

1:10:20

is like aware of literally everything

1:10:22

that's going on, which we get

1:10:25

in this monologue that she

1:10:27

does where she's like hyper

1:10:29

aware, but she couldn't because, like you said, she didn't

1:10:31

have her own she was not

1:10:34

ready to be who she was on her own.

1:10:36

So that was one of the only things I really was

1:10:38

like after rewatching, being

1:10:40

like we made her like stupid

1:10:43

for no reason or not stupid, but just being

1:10:45

like, I'm just pretty and that's it,

1:10:47

like airy, because it was very clear that

1:10:49

she was aware of her

1:10:52

popularity, but like of a bunch

1:10:54

of other things, but she never put it out there because she was

1:10:56

like, this is not what these people care about, and I need

1:10:59

to keep being this person while

1:11:01

in high school anyway, So yeah.

1:11:03

Right, and then that gave her an

1:11:05

identity crisis, and she's like, I

1:11:07

don't know who I am if I'm not

1:11:09

dating Mike. But then

1:11:11

that, to me sets up an arc

1:11:14

where she's going to then discover

1:11:16

something about herself, maybe shoes.

1:11:18

And not just jump into another relationship.

1:11:21

But yeah, exactly

1:11:23

with.

1:11:23

A guy that's kind of worse than

1:11:26

Mike, because this guy,

1:11:28

like.

1:11:29

I read it in different ways, but

1:11:31

at very least a lateral move. Yeah,

1:11:34

it's just that that's what I found frustrating.

1:11:36

It's like in because she is very clearly

1:11:39

typed, not like other girls. I wouldn't

1:11:41

say that's a fault of the Amanda character as much as

1:11:43

how the other girls are written. It

1:11:45

does feel very regressive to be like, only

1:11:48

one girl could be hot and

1:11:51

nice and can read. And

1:11:53

you're like, it's it's actually most

1:11:56

of them, not all of them, you

1:11:58

know, but it is many, many

1:12:01

of them. But any

1:12:03

case, as far as like what Amanda's

1:12:05

character, I like most of what she says,

1:12:08

but then what she does is often in direct

1:12:10

opposition to it. I really liked that speech of yeah,

1:12:12

like how to like the identity crisis,

1:12:15

but then what happens after that, She's

1:12:17

assaulted by her cousin. It's this weird, horrible

1:12:19

nineties joke. And then she

1:12:22

finds this letter. I

1:12:25

understand why you would be charmed by

1:12:27

whatever the fuck is in that letter. But

1:12:30

but but it then it just like it's always in contradiction

1:12:33

because I really like her speech shouting

1:12:35

down Preston, like we were talking about where

1:12:38

she was just like you don't know me. We see her receive

1:12:40

a lot of male attention she doesn't want. She

1:12:43

has to like be literally physically pushing

1:12:45

people away from her. The outburst

1:12:48

makes total sense, and she's right, Preston

1:12:50

doesn't know her, and

1:12:52

that doesn't change. It's not like

1:12:54

all of a sudden they like, I

1:12:57

don't know, I don't know if you if these characters

1:12:59

absolutely have to end up together.

1:13:01

I feel like there has to be some sort of like time

1:13:03

passes or they have like a long talk

1:13:06

or like they can't not talk.

1:13:08

Because it was literally the next day.

1:13:11

It was the next day, not even day,

1:13:13

like it was like the party ended

1:13:15

probably like.

1:13:16

What twelve hours later.

1:13:18

Yeah, and she shows up

1:13:20

with her angel shirt on and

1:13:22

like, hey, let's

1:13:24

be the g you know me now. It's

1:13:26

just like there needed to be some time

1:13:28

passing. But at that point we were already like, what eighty

1:13:30

some minutes into the movie, so they were like, we all

1:13:33

wrapped this up, like.

1:13:34

Yeah, so it's like I like everything

1:13:37

she says, but it doesn't match up with what she

1:13:39

does, and she's still just like

1:13:42

tossed from one man

1:13:44

who doesn't understand her and wants

1:13:46

to define her based on what he's projecting at

1:13:48

her to look guy, a guy that's gonna do the same

1:13:50

thing in a new and interesting way, in

1:13:52

a new way.

1:13:53

Yeah, and we also don't know.

1:13:54

What her dreams are.

1:13:56

Which was so crazy because her high

1:13:58

school quote too was first

1:14:00

of all, it was Jewel, which was very

1:14:02

aligned with me and I was kind of middle school

1:14:05

because Pieces of You, I was

1:14:07

like, I wore that

1:14:09

song out as though I was previously

1:14:12

an unhoused Alaskan person

1:14:14

like I ate like, but they

1:14:17

made her so, I mean, I don't know,

1:14:19

but it was something about her using Jewel

1:14:22

as her like quote of being like

1:14:25

I don't know who I am. It was

1:14:27

always something more to who

1:14:29

she is, but we don't get

1:14:31

to ever figure

1:14:33

out what that is.

1:14:34

We learn zero things about

1:14:36

her because like it says like her future plans

1:14:39

colon undecided, but that doesn't

1:14:41

mean she still can't have interests or

1:14:43

like the avenues she might pursue.

1:14:46

But instead we just know nothing

1:14:49

about her, nothing about her.

1:14:50

And I think that that like would really help

1:14:53

the conflict that the movie is always sort

1:14:55

of like restoking and abandoning about,

1:14:57

like her kind of crisis of self. What,

1:15:00

Okay, you don't want to be missus

1:15:02

popular? What do you want to

1:15:04

be? Or like what parts of yourself did you have

1:15:07

to suppress to be in this relationship

1:15:09

successfully? And that's that's

1:15:11

maybe an in for Preston of

1:15:13

like you know, and it would be the most hokey teen

1:15:15

movie thing eve ever. But she's like, you know, I just really

1:15:18

love reading kurvonic it, you

1:15:20

know, just like it's

1:15:23

not that complicated, like it's like give

1:15:25

them something, but it's like they don't.

1:15:27

There's there's nothing keeping these

1:15:29

two together except that she knows

1:15:32

that he is infatuated with her,

1:15:34

but we were just told that she's kind of put off

1:15:36

and disgusted by that, Yeah, because

1:15:39

that's not based on who she is.

1:15:41

It's just kind of a mess.

1:15:42

Yeah, And we don't know anything

1:15:44

about her ever, and he doesn't

1:15:47

know anything about her, her friends don't really

1:15:49

know anything about her. Mike never

1:15:51

really knew anything about her. So it was kind of the setup

1:15:53

of being like, we're gonna learn

1:15:56

some shit about her, right like, and then you're

1:15:58

right, we get that monologue, but then we ultimately

1:16:01

nothing. But I don't know. I

1:16:03

think maybe I wanted to, Like, I think I was

1:16:05

so attached to her because this

1:16:08

is gonna sound little hokey myself, but I was very

1:16:10

misunderstood, and I was like, oh,

1:16:12

she and I And ultimately she is misunderstood,

1:16:15

right, whether it's like teen drama situation

1:16:17

or not, she just is. And I think

1:16:19

she was the first teen girl

1:16:22

character that I had seen in

1:16:24

a movie that was all the way throughout

1:16:26

like she was just misunderstood.

1:16:30

She didn't really have any like growth

1:16:32

or change or like come into the person she would

1:16:34

like disturb her behavior Katie Holmes

1:16:36

like she fucking figured her shit

1:16:38

out by the end of the movie. All these movies, even

1:16:40

Jennifer Love hewittt and I Know What You Did Last Summer, which

1:16:42

I think also came about that, yeah, same year, same

1:16:45

year. She ultimately figures

1:16:48

out who she like, she comes

1:16:50

into herself, And I think this character

1:16:52

did it and at the time, like I wasn't.

1:16:54

So it was a very clear cut

1:16:56

case of like, yes, I'm gay, but I don't

1:16:58

want to kiss her. This one girl in

1:17:00

this movie, I just want to like be

1:17:03

her, you know. It was crazy.

1:17:04

It's I don't know, I mean, and it's I wouldn't

1:17:07

say that. I mean, I think we've covered

1:17:09

a lot of movies kind of like this recently.

1:17:12

I wouldn't say that.

1:17:12

She's like significantly

1:17:15

less written than other.

1:17:17

Characters, which is sad and

1:17:20

the bar is low, something

1:17:22

we're always reminded of.

1:17:23

And I also think it's like that's kind

1:17:25

of what tends to happen in a movie with

1:17:27

five thousand characters, Like that's just

1:17:30

kind of like what happens in an ensemble

1:17:32

comedy. But it's if we're what

1:17:34

we are told about her is

1:17:36

underdeveloped and not really paid

1:17:39

off in like how she acts. But

1:17:41

I like but it sucks because I like I do like

1:17:43

her.

1:17:43

Yeah, I like her.

1:17:45

I like her, I like Denise, and

1:17:48

neither of them are given

1:17:50

that much characterization beyond

1:17:52

the very surface level thing.

1:17:56

And meanwhile, I feel like we know

1:17:58

multiple things about each of the

1:18:00

major male characters.

1:18:03

Yeah, and that.

1:18:04

Same characterization isn't lent

1:18:06

to the only like

1:18:08

two girls who have major

1:18:12

roles in the movie.

1:18:13

So, yeah, peepee poop

1:18:15

poo, also peepee poo poo,

1:18:17

are uh please,

1:18:19

I've got some more pepee poo pooh. Okay,

1:18:24

we've touched on a few of these already.

1:18:26

But just the way that, like the

1:18:28

teens talk to each other and

1:18:31

treat each other, it's stuff

1:18:33

that's very common for this era, both

1:18:35

in like real life, because

1:18:37

you know, I was I was a little younger

1:18:40

than these kids were in

1:18:42

nineteen ninety eight, but I remember

1:18:44

the stuff that people were saying to each other and

1:18:46

how they were treating each other very common

1:18:49

for that era. But as

1:18:51

we were saying earlier, the movie

1:18:53

just doesn't want to challenge

1:18:56

any of that behavior. It's more just like presenting

1:18:59

it as a noise normal part of late nineties

1:19:01

high school culture. The way that you

1:19:04

know, several characters body

1:19:06

shame each other, say ablest things

1:19:08

to each other, call each other homophobic

1:19:10

slurs. The nerds

1:19:13

like revenge plan against the jocks

1:19:15

is like homophobic revenge

1:19:17

porn. That one was, Yeah, that

1:19:19

was the bust.

1:19:20

I think I just like I really detest

1:19:23

a revenge of the Nerds scenario.

1:19:26

They age so.

1:19:27

Unbelievably poorly because

1:19:30

now they're billionaires

1:19:32

and ruining the world, Like I'm not.

1:19:34

I'm simply not rooting for him,

1:19:37

even.

1:19:37

Like my first watching, Like when I first

1:19:39

watched this movie, I kind

1:19:42

of probably fast forward. After the first or second

1:19:44

watch, I probably fast forward. It passed a lot

1:19:46

of their plot. And

1:19:48

that was one movie too. That was

1:19:50

one like range of movies that I never really touched.

1:19:52

I only needed one was like Revenge of the Nerds, and

1:19:55

there's so many of them. That was one because

1:19:57

there was a time I was obsessed with like an eighties comedy

1:19:59

teen. I saw one of those

1:20:01

and I was like, this is enough, Like

1:20:03

this.

1:20:04

Is They're all the same.

1:20:05

They are all the same.

1:20:07

They always involve something like it's either

1:20:09

a deeply homophobic or misogynist

1:20:12

revenge plan.

1:20:13

That involves a gadget, and you're

1:20:15

just like this fucking sucks.

1:20:17

And it also like sucks for like actual

1:20:20

nerds, Like it's not fair to

1:20:22

actual nerds because they it makes them out

1:20:24

to be like villains and it's

1:20:26

like no.

1:20:27

It's just you can you can just

1:20:29

watch Star Trek like it's truly

1:20:32

all good.

1:20:33

It's totally fine. Yeah.

1:20:34

Yeah. The way those movies characterize

1:20:37

nerds is characterizing them as being as

1:20:39

toxic as the jocks, just like in

1:20:42

a different way. And again it's just putting people into

1:20:44

boxes and you know all that

1:20:46

stuff. A few other of these Pepe

1:20:48

Poopoo things is there's

1:20:51

a foreign exchange student and

1:20:54

a bunch of jokes are made at the

1:20:56

expense of someone who doesn't speak English

1:20:58

as their first language. Like some of the kids

1:21:00

are teaching him phrases that

1:21:02

like they're like, yeah, just say this to people.

1:21:05

And one of them is like, would you like to touch

1:21:07

my penis? And then he says that to Preston

1:21:09

and Preston's like, oh yuck.

1:21:11

And you're like, yeah, that is a gross

1:21:14

thing to say to someone. But it's all you know,

1:21:16

Like it's all you know. It's the same

1:21:18

old bullshit.

1:21:19

It's the same thing. Also, there's the

1:21:21

kid who steals stuff

1:21:24

in the.

1:21:24

Favorite character for some reason, I

1:21:26

don't know why.

1:21:27

Unfortunately, I do have to say I

1:21:30

was this kid at parties. I once

1:21:33

went to an mi I t frat party

1:21:35

my freshman year of college and I got

1:21:37

in big trouble because what the one of the boys

1:21:39

that lived on my floor. His brother

1:21:42

was in the frat, and so we got like the plug, we

1:21:44

got to go, and I drank a

1:21:46

ton of vodka and stole two

1:21:48

pool balls. Whoa, and

1:21:51

just I was like, I'm not going to steal them all. I'm

1:21:53

just gonna make it unusable. I

1:21:55

was just like feeling really diabolical,

1:21:58

and then I was some I was

1:22:00

traced back to me. Shockingly, I probably

1:22:02

wasn't that slick. Yeah, I felt

1:22:04

connected to the kid that goes to a

1:22:07

rich person party and steals things,

1:22:09

just takes things.

1:22:10

Yeah, fair, Yeah, I mean we all should

1:22:12

be stealing from the rich. But I feel like what's

1:22:15

happening here in this movie is like a joke

1:22:17

being made of kleptomania,

1:22:20

or like the media's interpretation

1:22:23

of that, which is like, you know, a real condition.

1:22:27

Certainly a real thing.

1:22:28

I guess I was just interpreting it more as

1:22:31

like I'm at a party at a rich guy's

1:22:33

house.

1:22:34

No, because you see him like steal from the convenience

1:22:36

store, you see him steal from

1:22:38

the dining.

1:22:39

He takes the gumball machine.

1:22:41

Yeah, he steals a cop car, which also

1:22:43

we should be stealing from Kimos as well.

1:22:45

I just like, I think that that character.

1:22:48

I'm sorry, I appreciate, like I

1:22:50

don't want to make light of kleptomania.

1:22:53

And also I'm like, this kid's generally doing

1:22:55

good practice by me.

1:22:57

I don't see you know the

1:23:00

problem.

1:23:01

To me, he like was

1:23:04

just like very background.

1:23:06

But that guy his name is Chris

1:23:08

Owen. He's from Rour. Look, so

1:23:10

he's from a city in Michigan that's

1:23:13

like five minutes after Detroit.

1:23:16

And he's also like just

1:23:19

been a weirdo in so many he's an

1:23:21

American pie.

1:23:22

Like, he's all, he's just kid,

1:23:25

an American pie. I'm pretty sure. Who

1:23:28

like keeps pretending that he's the terminator.

1:23:30

I feel like he's is He also the kid in a

1:23:33

different teen movie where there's

1:23:35

something about pubes on pizza. I think

1:23:37

this is why does that sound familiar?

1:23:40

She's all that.

1:23:41

Oh yeah, he's like the kid

1:23:43

who has to eat pubes on it's

1:23:45

his pubes that get put on the pizza

1:23:48

or something.

1:23:49

I have mercifully wiped

1:23:51

this from my memory because.

1:23:53

That came up.

1:23:54

She's all that came I gotta watch she's all that again tonight.

1:23:56

Anyway, that's what that's happening. For us. But

1:23:58

yeah, so I kind of just was like, this

1:24:01

guy is just background

1:24:03

to me, and I think like it was supposed to be like a Kitschy

1:24:05

teen thing.

1:24:06

But yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

1:24:08

A few other they're not really cameos

1:24:10

because these people weren't famous yet, but it's

1:24:12

like people who would we would go into it

1:24:15

on to recognize. You see Melissa

1:24:17

Joan Hart, she has one of the bigger

1:24:19

roles of these like minor characters.

1:24:22

I think she's killing it.

1:24:23

Yeah, you've got Clay Duval, You've

1:24:25

got Amber Benson aka Tara

1:24:28

from Buffy.

1:24:29

Oh see, I

1:24:31

didn't watch Buffet.

1:24:32

She's there. Selma Blair

1:24:35

has a tiny little appearance Blair

1:24:38

Jason Siegel does. And then

1:24:40

breck and Meyer and Donald Faison are in a band

1:24:42

together, and I think that they also recruit

1:24:45

Seth Green and then form

1:24:47

jo from Josie and the Pussy Kids.

1:24:49

Oh that's so cool.

1:24:50

I'm sure I'm missing people.

1:24:52

But there's also mine

1:24:54

that I pulled because this movie is stacked.

1:24:56

Right. This movie is wildly Leslie

1:24:59

Grossmith, who I fucking loved.

1:25:02

So she's the girl that the original

1:25:04

girl that Seth Green is going to hook up

1:25:06

with. She's the one who's talking

1:25:08

to her friend. And Leslie Grossman is

1:25:11

did you watch The Good Place a little

1:25:13

bit? Yes, she's the

1:25:15

main character's mom. She's also

1:25:17

in Popular from the nineties, which

1:25:20

is one of my favorite shows from the nineties, is

1:25:22

Popular, And Sarah Rue is

1:25:24

in this too, who was also Unpopular.

1:25:27

She's the sheep girl who's like, you're

1:25:29

all sheep. There's Jamie

1:25:31

Presley, Selma Blair, yeah.

1:25:33

Oh.

1:25:33

Leslie Grossman was also an American horror story. Maybe

1:25:36

you know from that, but she

1:25:39

is. But my favorite part of

1:25:41

the little cameos and stuff

1:25:43

is just that I think,

1:25:45

did you all remember Popular or

1:25:48

watched Popular or ever heard of

1:25:50

Popular? To me, it feels like a fever

1:25:52

dream. But I know it's real because i Wikipedia

1:25:55

tells me so. But

1:25:58

Sarah Rue and Leslie Grossman and the show called

1:26:00

Popular, and it's like two sisters who parents

1:26:02

they're well their parents get married, so they become stepsisters,

1:26:05

one popular ones not. It's just so it's

1:26:07

so good, and I suggested

1:26:09

everyone fucking like try to get your hands on Popular

1:26:12

if you can. But Sama Blair, yeah,

1:26:14

she's in it. And then Cruel Intentions comes out the next year,

1:26:16

so yeah, this.

1:26:17

Is like she's she's on the cusps

1:26:20

on it. Yeah, this is just a deeply,

1:26:22

profoundly ninety spoofy

1:26:25

head to toe for good reasons and bad.

1:26:27

Yeah.

1:26:28

Does anyone have anything else they want

1:26:30

to talk about?

1:26:32

I know, oh yeah. The only other thing that I

1:26:34

have is that the song that Amanda

1:26:37

walks into like Sneaker Pimps six

1:26:39

Underground has always been one of my favorite songs,

1:26:41

and it's because of this movie. And

1:26:43

I've always loved that song. And I like

1:26:46

had a little trivia thing where I was able

1:26:49

to name that song and people

1:26:51

were like, why do you know that song? And

1:26:53

I was like, can't Harley wait? And it was like

1:26:55

one of the best experiences in my.

1:26:56

Life, Like way all that rock.

1:26:58

I like did a Yeah, it was so cool.

1:27:01

I was like, yeah, this is.

1:27:03

Like all right. I was like, yeah, I stayed in my

1:27:05

room a lot when I was a kid.

1:27:08

But I love that when the indoor kid,

1:27:11

when you have like an indoor kid jump out, it's

1:27:14

just it's really there's so few,

1:27:16

but we get so few opportunities.

1:27:18

It's great to see. Yeah, yeah,

1:27:21

I wanted to.

1:27:22

Yeah, the the double smash mouth,

1:27:25

You're not like walking on the Sun.

1:27:27

Yeah, but what about walking on the Sun twice?

1:27:29

And I was like, that is an interesting question.

1:27:32

Uh, it's tricky.

1:27:34

Busta rhymes blank twenty two thirty

1:27:37

blind, Missy Elliott.

1:27:39

It's just like, yeah, it

1:27:41

feels good, it feels good.

1:27:43

Anyway, does this movie past the

1:27:45

Bechdel test?

1:27:46

I don't think so.

1:27:48

I would say no. I think the popular

1:27:50

girls talk to Amanda

1:27:52

about Gwyneth Paltrow, but the context

1:27:55

is still about Mike Dexter. And also, we

1:27:57

don't really know those girls' names. They're label

1:28:00

as like girlfriend number one, girlfriend

1:28:02

number two, et cetera.

1:28:04

And then like Denise doesn't really talk

1:28:06

to any other women. There's a few women who

1:28:09

approach her, or there's like a girl who

1:28:11

approaches her, but again

1:28:13

we don't know these characters' names, and

1:28:15

the conversations are not that narratively

1:28:17

important. So I would say yeah, spiritually

1:28:20

no to passing the Bechdel test.

1:28:23

Yeah, I think it's like spiritually and possibly

1:28:25

literally really well yeah,

1:28:28

because if it does pass, it's nothing of

1:28:30

importance. There's no meaningful relationships

1:28:33

between women, which which not for

1:28:35

nothing, does echo a lot of the issues we had with

1:28:38

say anything, where it's like, right, Andy, and

1:28:40

still I think Say Anything did a better job

1:28:42

of like Diane and Corey at least talk.

1:28:45

Do they talk about Lloyd Dobbler? Yes, But

1:28:47

do they talk yes? Yeah, It's like women

1:28:49

don't really talk to each other in this movie.

1:28:51

It's kind of interesting. However,

1:28:53

it is co written and co directed

1:28:55

by a woman, Deborah Kaplan,

1:28:58

and so I want to be

1:29:00

sure to that never happens.

1:29:02

And also, two women producers

1:29:05

are leading the top

1:29:07

line of this Geno Topping,

1:29:10

which is kind of an incredible name, as

1:29:13

well as Betty Thomas.

1:29:15

So it's not as if there's

1:29:17

not women involved in the production. There's quite

1:29:19

a few women involved in the production. However,

1:29:21

very very white production on

1:29:24

the crew side, certainly. So

1:29:27

let's put this movie to the test

1:29:29

of a proper metric of.

1:29:31

A generation the nipple scale

1:29:35

zero to five nipples, where we rate the movie

1:29:37

examining it through an

1:29:40

intersectional feminist lens. I feel

1:29:42

like I can only give this like I

1:29:45

think one nipple is even sort of being generous.

1:29:48

It is a fun, enjoyable movie, but it's

1:29:51

got a whole slew of problems, just

1:29:53

you know, presenting teens being horrible

1:29:56

to each other and like screaming homophobic

1:29:58

slurs constantly without anyone

1:30:01

batting an eye. The two main

1:30:03

female characters are both

1:30:06

I would say, pretty underdeveloped, and

1:30:09

their storylines revolve around

1:30:12

some romance with a man

1:30:15

and the again the Kenny Fisher

1:30:19

and his just whole thing,

1:30:22

and the centering of white characters

1:30:24

in general. All of that stuff also

1:30:26

seth Green's character pease and

1:30:28

then doesn't wash his hands.

1:30:30

So I think that's

1:30:33

realism.

1:30:35

I mean, the teenage the hygiene

1:30:38

of teenage boys is risc

1:30:40

is certainly horrible. I do appreciate

1:30:42

any teen movie that doesn't end in prom

1:30:46

I appreciate that there's

1:30:48

a character who's a sex worker and she's

1:30:51

not shamed for her

1:30:53

job.

1:30:53

Now she's a little angel.

1:30:56

She's an angel. Yes,

1:30:59

But there's a whole slew of other problems.

1:31:02

But there are some like kind

1:31:04

of minor subversions

1:31:06

here and there, but not enough to make it

1:31:08

feel.

1:31:09

A lot of the beginnings.

1:31:10

I feel like we talked about this where it's like it starts

1:31:12

to subvert something and then kind of chickens out

1:31:15

and goes back to what you.

1:31:16

Expect would happen.

1:31:17

Yeah, so I'll go one

1:31:20

nipple actually and I'll give the

1:31:22

nipple to the movie Josie and the Pussycats.

1:31:27

I'm gonna go one nipple as well.

1:31:28

Yeah, I think that there are moments in this

1:31:31

movie that creep up towards saying

1:31:33

something.

1:31:34

I don't know.

1:31:34

It's so of its time where my

1:31:36

I understand why there's a lot of nostalgia

1:31:39

for this movie. There's so many, like

1:31:41

extremely nineties things about it. But

1:31:43

I'm okay with leaving it in nineteen ninety eight.

1:31:45

I don't think I'll be really returning to it.

1:31:47

I have no attachment to it. A double

1:31:49

smash mouths drop. Why I could

1:31:52

just go watch Shrek. You know, if

1:31:54

I wanted to hear the same smash mouth

1:31:56

song twice, I could go watch Shrek one.

1:31:59

But I don't know.

1:31:59

I think that there is certainly stuff to like about

1:32:02

this movie. I like Amanda.

1:32:04

I wish that there was more

1:32:07

coherence with her storyline.

1:32:09

I think that there And I like Denise, and I

1:32:11

wish that there was more coherence with her storyline.

1:32:13

There's a lot of interesting characters in this movie

1:32:16

that I wish were talking to each

1:32:18

other, but they're always talking to a person that

1:32:20

I'm not.

1:32:21

Very interested in. Yeah, and that's

1:32:23

a shame.

1:32:24

Yeah, ultimately very dated, and

1:32:26

I'm going to give it one nipple,

1:32:29

and I'm going to give it to Jenna Elfman's character because

1:32:32

I really that I think is the one

1:32:35

actual, like I could say, like firmly,

1:32:37

that felt like a subversive scene

1:32:39

to show a sex worker who has

1:32:41

a meaningful moment in the plot, who

1:32:44

is not shamed or blamed and

1:32:47

moves the plot forward like that never

1:32:49

happens and good

1:32:51

for that scene.

1:32:54

One nipple.

1:32:56

Yeah, I think from the lens that we're examining

1:32:58

it from outside of and this

1:33:00

happens with ever movie I've ever bought on this

1:33:02

podcast, It's been like this movie

1:33:05

in general to me, eight

1:33:07

nipples, but from the Londons

1:33:09

that we are, Yeah, the lens

1:33:12

that we're examining it from, this absolutely

1:33:14

gets like I think, I honestly one and a half.

1:33:16

And I think it's mainly because of Amanda

1:33:19

Beckett's character, because that's what really made

1:33:21

me love the movie so much anyway, And

1:33:24

I really do think we were on the cusp of like

1:33:26

really exploring her, but like you said, they

1:33:29

chickened out with her, and

1:33:31

yeah, I think so. My one nipple

1:33:34

goes to just like what

1:33:36

Amanda could be. And then the

1:33:38

half goes to her outfit

1:33:41

because that's been one of the outfits of

1:33:43

my and I had that outfit like

1:33:46

a few years ago. I did a revamp

1:33:48

on it, but see outfit

1:33:50

because it's super cute

1:33:53

and chill and simple. But yeah, so

1:33:55

one and a half one and a half nipples, but

1:33:57

eight Shelley nipples because it's incredible.

1:34:00

Well, of course there's the Shelley scale,

1:34:02

and then.

1:34:03

There's scale,

1:34:06

there's there's this all. Yeah, there's

1:34:08

a whole thing going on.

1:34:10

Yeah, Well, thank you so much for

1:34:12

joining us again.

1:34:13

This was, as always another

1:34:15

welcome to the Three Timers Club. At

1:34:18

five appearances, you get a jacket. We've

1:34:20

been lying for years.

1:34:22

Someday I'm

1:34:25

so happy.

1:34:26

I love it here, come back

1:34:28

anytime. Where can people check

1:34:31

out your writing and

1:34:33

follow you online? Et cetera.

1:34:35

I am so I'm mainly doing

1:34:37

a lot of work on my substack. It's

1:34:39

my weekly newsletter and

1:34:42

it's high Shelley s H

1:34:44

E L L I dot net. But

1:34:47

you have to like type in the w W W

1:34:49

dot two or else it will tell you that like

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it's parked, and that's a lie anyway,

1:34:55

And I'm a O Shelley A y O s

1:34:58

h E L I on I and

1:35:00

Hi Shelly on x Twitter

1:35:03

whatever that part, and yeah,

1:35:06

so that's what I do. I love this, I

1:35:08

love coming on here makes me so happy.

1:35:10

We love having you come back soon.

1:35:12

You can find us in all the normal places,

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1:35:19

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Cast. That's five dollars a month for

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to a back catalog of over one hundred

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and fifty episodes. This

1:35:34

month we are doing is

1:35:36

what are we call calling this month?

1:35:38

Oh it's Wedding Weebruary. How could you

1:35:40

even forget?

1:35:41

God?

1:35:42

That was literally my genius idea.

1:35:45

And yes, it's Wedding Weebruary.

1:35:47

We're covering Ready or Not and twenty seven

1:35:50

dresses. So

1:35:52

we're just going for the range of wedding

1:35:55

movie vibes.

1:35:56

Yes, so check us out

1:35:58