0:00

On the doll Cast. The questions asked

0:03

if movies have women in them? Are

0:05

all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

0:08

Do they have individualism? The

0:10

patriarchy? Zef invest

0:12

start changing it with the beck del Cast.

0:16

Click click click click click, Hey Jamie, it's

0:18

me the Predator. Click

0:20

watch out, I'm coming for you. Click click

0:22

click click click click click It's me the

0:24

other Predator Predators Friend, Jamie,

0:27

Wait, is there any Predator

0:30

movies with two Predators? Good

0:32

question? I've only seen I've

0:35

seen Predator from nineteen eighties. Seven

0:37

question mark. I've seen Pray

0:39

obviously today's episode, and I've

0:42

seen one of the Alien versus Predator

0:44

movies. I don't so I can't speak

0:46

to the other the other installments in

0:48

the franchise. And I feel like it's usually

0:51

a single Mr

0:53

Predator. He's single, doing his

0:55

business. He's single, he's

0:57

just adjusting the single life. Really, when

0:59

you think about it, Look,

1:01

and this is the point where some guy

1:04

on Twitter pulls a clip and they're like, they didn't even

1:06

watch all eight Pridator movies.

1:08

How can they talk about it? Look?

1:10

Welcome to the Becktel Cast. My name's Jamie

1:13

Loftus. My name is Caitlin

1:15

Darante, And this is our show where

1:17

we examine movies from an intersectional

1:19

feminist lens, using the Becktel test

1:22

simply as a jumping off point for a

1:24

larger discussion. Yes,

1:27

can I tell you what that Bechdel test is while

1:29

I'm at it? I would love for you to do that,

1:31

all right. Well, look, it's a media

1:33

metric created by queer cartoonist Alison

1:36

Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test,

1:38

originally made as a joke in a comic

1:41

strip, but has since evolved to become

1:43

kind of a metric that's often

1:45

applied across media. Lots

1:47

of different versions of it. The one we used

1:50

to start our discussion is um,

1:52

whether there are two characters

1:54

of a marginalized gender with names

1:57

who speak to each other about something

1:59

other than a man for two

2:01

lines of dialogue or more um

2:04

and it should be some sort of narratively you

2:06

know, relevant discussion. Yeah,

2:09

so that's how we start a discussion. But then we kind of

2:11

just talk about anything and everything, including

2:14

how the predator is hot in this

2:16

movie that we need will

2:18

unpack that later. I feel like we need to get

2:20

our guests involved because I don't feel

2:22

like we can just make a claim like that

2:25

and brush past. I

2:27

just can't imagine having to stay silent

2:30

as you are saying that. Um.

2:32

So, let's so we are covering.

2:34

Uh, it's our first recently released

2:36

movie we've covered in a while. Um,

2:39

but we know that our listeners wanted an episode

2:41

on it. We wanted to cover it. It's Prey,

2:45

and we have an absolutely wonderful

2:47

guest today, so let's get her in the mix.

2:50

Certainly, she is a professional indigeneered

2:53

at a tribe called geek. It's

2:55

Johnny J. Hey, everyone,

2:57

welcome, it's me, Thanks

3:00

for being here, thanks for

3:02

having me. So we reach

3:04

out to you because you wrote an incredible

3:06

peace in a tribe called geek

3:09

on this movie, and we are

3:11

just interested to hear more of your thoughts.

3:13

Um. But just to get us started,

3:16

what's your relationship with the

3:18

movie Prey. I

3:20

have a very complicated relationship

3:23

with the movie Prey. Um.

3:26

Well, first off, when

3:29

it first started being put out there

3:31

that this movie was in the works, I

3:34

was really skeptical right off the back

3:37

because of the way that it was being

3:39

um teased as hey,

3:41

everyone, you know, like this movie is

3:43

being pitched to different studios

3:46

and it's going to follow a Comanche woman who

3:48

goes against gender norms and traditions

3:51

to become a warrior. And

3:54

as these rumors kind of grew, as you

3:56

know, like this was developing in

3:58

Hollywood, you know, it started

4:00

coming out like this is going to potentially

4:02

be a predator movie, and

4:06

you know, it's like your spider sense to start

4:08

tingling, you know, and I was just like, oh,

4:10

no, this sounds so bad because

4:13

they didn't just say

4:15

a Native woman, you know, they said a Comanche

4:17

woman. And at the time that

4:20

the rumors had started about this movie,

4:22

I was living in law in Oklahoma, which

4:24

is where the Commanche nation

4:26

is located, and you

4:29

know, I've worked with Comanche women

4:31

and the one thing that I was just

4:33

like, what, Comanche

4:36

women are so fierce, and you

4:39

know, like a Native women have always kind

4:41

of been the backbones of our societies

4:43

and pre colonization. You

4:45

know, while there were gender traditional

4:47

gender roles, um,

4:50

patriarchy and matriarchy

4:52

were not what they are today for us. You

4:55

know, like while it kind of describes

4:58

it now from our perspective, um,

5:01

it didn't back then. So

5:04

you know, like even though you know, men were traditionally

5:06

warriors. It didn't mean that

5:08

women couldn't be warriors.

5:12

And so you know they're like even

5:14

from several different tribes, you know,

5:16

there have always been this history of

5:19

strong Native women who took on those warrior

5:21

roles. Um, if you had a skill

5:23

set, you know, even if you weren't

5:25

a man, and it was traditionally a

5:27

man's role, Um, if you

5:29

were particularly skilled, nobody

5:32

was keeping you from using your skills, you

5:35

know, to be like, oh, you're just a woman, you can't

5:37

do that, Like that didn't really exist

5:39

for us because you know, it was about survival

5:42

and doing what you needed to survive. So everybody's

5:45

skill set, you know, it had a

5:48

place and it was kind

5:50

of valued. So it wasn't

5:52

the way that this was kind of being portrayed.

5:55

So I can honestly say my relationship

5:57

is complicated because I was talking crap

5:59

about this movie since two thousand and sixteen.

6:02

Um, any time a rumor

6:05

or development would be released, I was

6:07

just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not good.

6:09

This is not good because

6:13

Disney does not have a good

6:15

historytive.

6:21

That's and then and then upon seeing

6:24

it, I mean, this is I'm

6:26

aware of just because I've read your your

6:28

piece about it. But what was your your first reaction

6:31

on seeing the finished product? My

6:34

mind was blown. Um, it

6:36

was so good. I I'm a huge

6:38

Predator fan. I love horror,

6:40

and I grew up on Predator, and

6:43

it's always been kind of disappointing, like after

6:45

the first one. Um, And I know

6:47

a lot of people tend to really love

6:49

Predator too. Is

6:52

that the Danny Glover one? Yes,

6:54

that's over, and there's the debate

6:56

between which one is better. But you

6:59

know, for me, it was always about the original and

7:01

everything else was just so disappointing. But

7:04

I watched them and I'm excited to watch them

7:06

because it's the Predator. And I

7:08

even have a picture of me with a guy

7:12

with the Predator life sized Predator. I

7:14

went to an antique shop and it turns

7:16

out that one of the guys, um that this

7:19

dude is friends with, worked

7:21

on the original Predator, Like he

7:23

helped actually cast the

7:25

Predator, like all the different pieces

7:27

that they used, and so they

7:30

started making these for fun and

7:32

to just kind of have on display in his shop, and

7:35

he sells them and I'm

7:37

still like, let's let me

7:39

win the lottery so I can at least have two of them

7:41

because they are so badass, so cool.

7:44

Oh my god. Yeah. So so

7:46

you know, like I'm a Predator fan. I love

7:48

the series, and so seeing

7:51

this movie, like I I was already expecting

7:53

badness. I didn't have high expectations,

7:56

but oh my gosh, like my

7:59

mind was blown and I never expected

8:01

to be crying in a

8:03

Predator movie, but I did.

8:06

And you know, it was just

8:09

so good, Like the story was

8:11

so well developed, the characters were

8:13

well developed, and it was

8:15

like it wasn't just horror

8:18

or action. You know, there was a lot of emotion

8:21

and there was a lot of history that was being kind

8:23

of conveyed in a

8:25

way that was absolutely

8:28

stunning. Um. So, like

8:30

after watching the movie, I was just like did

8:33

I just see that? Like did that just happen?

8:36

Because the other thing that for me that really

8:38

hit me in the feelers was

8:41

the credits. Because you know,

8:43

a lot of productions have native consultants.

8:46

They'll bring people on to help, and

8:49

they rarely get credit for that help.

8:51

Um you don't really see their names in the

8:54

credits or anything like that. But watching

8:56

the credits and seeing the

8:58

people that they brought into help with this

9:00

movie. Being name checked

9:03

was incredible because you know,

9:06

having lived there in law in Oklahoma,

9:08

you know, these are people that I've known. Um, they

9:11

were people that I've worked with on other projects.

9:14

Um, you know one of them is wanted

9:16

a pot a Pony And I'm pretty sure I just pushered

9:18

her last name, but um, she's a

9:20

really well known commanche scholar

9:23

and she had passed she just recently

9:25

passed away. And

9:27

you know, to see her having input

9:30

on the movie and being included like and

9:32

did see them kind of memorializing

9:35

her was

9:37

such a beautiful moment because you

9:40

know, it just kind of showed that they

9:42

really valued her input

9:44

and the input of everyone that they brought in

9:47

from you know, individuals within the

9:49

tribe who were just language speakers or

9:51

had some cultural knowledge, to the

9:53

language department, to thinking

9:55

the entire tribe. And

9:58

you know, I was just like InCred doably moved

10:00

by the credits, which

10:03

who does that?

10:06

So when people get credit for something that

10:08

they usually don't get credit

10:10

for, it's like very meaningful

10:13

to like receive credit where credit

10:15

is due. So I mean I don't and I

10:17

know that we we talk a lot on the show about

10:19

you know, making sure that the proper

10:22

consulting work is both gotten

10:24

and paid for. But I feel like

10:27

that's such a good point that I don't even know that we've touched

10:29

on. Is like also receiving the

10:32

proper actual credit within

10:34

the film credits in a way that isn't like you're

10:36

waiting, you know, five hours

10:38

to get to your name in size to font.

10:42

Yeah, like that is that is extremely

10:44

significant and that's so much. I mean, we're

10:46

going to talk about the filmmakers behind this,

10:49

but it's like with without the consulting,

10:51

this movie would be a fraction

10:53

of what it is. It's like, I'm so

10:55

excited to talk about it. I

10:57

mean it's just like even now,

11:00

like everything, I've watched it several times now

11:02

because I get something different every single

11:04

time, and it's just so phenomenal.

11:08

It is. Jamie, what is your

11:11

relationship with Prey with

11:13

the Predator franchise in general? I

11:17

mean, quite a short history

11:19

with Prey as it just came

11:22

out. However, I do remember

11:25

seeing um, I didn't realize what a

11:27

long production history this had,

11:30

and I do remember at one point looking up,

11:32

I was like, well, who is writing this movie

11:34

and who were being slightly perturbed

11:36

when I saw that it was being co written

11:39

by a supervising producer on Jack

11:41

Ryan. I'm like, hmmm, maybe

11:44

not the kind of writing

11:46

I'm going to enjoy, but I'm

11:48

so I'm coming into the Predator franchise

11:51

pretty cold. This was my

11:53

first UM Predator Expanded

11:56

Universe movie, and

11:58

I really really really enjoyed

12:00

it. Like, I'm really excited to talk about

12:02

it. I have some thoughts on some things, but for

12:04

the most part, I just like it's a It's

12:07

UM for me, an action

12:09

movie. Holding my attention is

12:11

a huge accomplishment, and

12:14

I really really enjoyed this movie. I think that there's

12:16

so many good performances, the filmmaking is

12:18

amazing, and the attention to detail culturally,

12:21

I'm very excited to talk about and learn more about.

12:23

So I liked it. Kyle,

12:26

what's your history with Prey slash

12:29

Predator at large? A

12:32

large? I

12:34

saw Predator one,

12:37

I don't know, probably like fifteen years ago in

12:39

college and was like, yeah,

12:42

that's cool, that's fine. UM,

12:45

but I haven't engaged very

12:47

much with the

12:49

franchise. But learning

12:51

about this movie, I knew it came out,

12:53

I was like, all right, this is on my list. Of things to see

12:55

and then us doing this episode now

12:58

gave me kind of the like kicking

13:00

the bomb, I needed to actually watch it. I

13:04

do wish that I could have seen this movie

13:06

in theaters. Um as much as I

13:08

like enjoyed watching it at home, I wish I could have

13:10

seen this movie on a gigantic screen.

13:13

Same and I've seen it twice now, once

13:15

in English and once in Comanche.

13:18

And then I also rewatched Predator

13:21

yesterday just to see if it would like inform

13:23

anything I had to say about

13:25

Pray um, which I don't

13:28

know, maybe it'll come up, but um, yeah,

13:30

I would say of the

13:32

Predator movies i've seen, Pray is

13:34

my favorite installment in the franchise.

13:38

I also really enjoyed this movie Mr

13:41

Predator Hot, but also

13:43

everyone in the cast hot.

13:46

Could you unpack Mr Predator hot for

13:49

as someone who famously had

13:51

a thing for the fish from Shape of Water? But

13:54

I feel like that movie was actively encouraging

13:56

you to want to have sex with the fish,

13:59

and it just like worked on me faster

14:01

than maybe the movie intended. I

14:04

mean, have you seen Predator's body

14:07

in this movie? I mean some abs?

14:10

Yeah, he's he is often invisible but you

14:12

know he's he's got abs, he's

14:14

got nice shoulders. I forget

14:16

you do love. I just think that he's Is

14:19

it the shoulders thing? Look, I

14:21

don't know if I have specifically a shoulders

14:23

thing. The point is I

14:26

am attracted to the predator from

14:28

prey. I think it's really brave of you

14:30

to say out loud, thank

14:32

you so much. But that is

14:35

neither here nor there. I'm not going to focus

14:37

on that in this episode. There's a lot of more

14:40

important things to talk about. So

14:43

with that, I say we get into it, starting

14:45

with the recap,

14:47

actually starting with let's take a quick break and

14:50

then we'll come back and recap. So

14:52

we will be right back and

15:02

we're back with Caitlin's

15:05

famous recap. Okay,

15:07

the movie opens. We

15:09

are in the Great Northern Plains.

15:12

It is the year seventeen nineteen.

15:14

We meet Naru, played by Amber

15:17

Midsunder. She's a young

15:19

woman from the Comanche Nation.

15:22

We see Naru gathering food

15:24

with her dog. Sorry big sorry

15:26

fan, Oh sorry, the dog good.

15:30

Then we see her doing target practice with

15:32

a throwing axe. She spots

15:35

a deer, which gets spooked by

15:37

a loud sound something

15:39

flying overhead, maybe an alien spaceship

15:42

we don't know, but a

15:44

chase ensues and Naru

15:46

chases and hunts the deer, but it gets

15:49

away. Then she sees something in the

15:51

sky and it's

15:53

maybe an alien spaceship. Question

15:55

mark done done. I

15:58

also love every time they are in like

16:00

Predator vision. It's

16:03

so it just it made me

16:05

giggle, maybe giggle. Every time he went

16:07

heat vision mode, you're like, oh, yeah, the future,

16:09

because this movie does such a good job of entrenching

16:12

you in seventeen nineteen than anytime you

16:14

see heat vision you're like, hold on, uh

16:18

uh. So. Then Naru speaks to her brother tab

16:20

A played by Dakota Beavers. She

16:23

tells him that she saw what

16:26

she's calling the thunderbird in the sky.

16:28

They talk about hunting. She says she's ready

16:31

for her trial, and he's like,

16:33

you want to hunt something that's hunting you?

16:36

And we're like, that's the theme of the movie.

16:39

And then Naru

16:41

and her mom played by Michelle

16:43

Thrush, have a conversation. Her

16:46

mom asks, you're good at so many

16:48

things, why do you want to hunt? And

16:50

Naru says, because you all think

16:52

that I can't, which is

16:54

the most coming of age thing

16:57

of all. I really

16:59

like um Michelle Thrash's performance.

17:02

This is also where you find out that her father

17:04

has passed Naru's father. Yes. Yeah.

17:08

We then cut to this

17:11

thunderbird flying through the sky

17:13

again. Then we see something that

17:15

you recognize as the Predator alien

17:18

if you've seen a Predator movie.

17:20

It's invisible, but you can see its outline.

17:23

You can hear it's like click click click noise

17:26

its mouth. The clicks are cannon. I'm taking

17:28

it. Yes, Yes, people love a

17:30

good old fashioned predator click. I was loving it.

17:33

It's good, it's good. Meanwhile,

17:36

a lion has taken out one

17:38

of the men from the village, Poohy,

17:41

so Tabe and some other men start tracking

17:43

the lion to rescue Poohi. Naru

17:46

follows the men, but they don't

17:49

take her seriously. They make a sexist remark

17:51

toward her. Then Naru

17:54

is the one to find pooh He alive, but

17:56

he's badly injured, and she suspects

17:58

that something else, something bigger, must

18:01

have scared off the lion and that's why

18:03

pooh He is still alive. Right,

18:05

So Naru tends to his

18:07

wounds and gives him a

18:09

medicinal plant that cools his body

18:11

temperature to slow down his blood

18:13

flows so that he doesn't lose too much blood.

18:16

Right. Then, Naru and the others

18:18

carry Poohy back to their village

18:21

while Tabe stays behind to hunt the

18:23

lion. On the way back, Naru

18:25

sees large footprints a skinned

18:27

snake, kind of some freaky stuff.

18:29

The snake scene was cool and

18:32

the yeah, the snake effects, that

18:35

was one of the scenes. We're like, why can't I see this

18:37

in imax? This is so cool? Right,

18:40

So she sees all this stuff, so

18:42

she and this man

18:45

Paca, turned back to warn

18:47

Tabe and try to help him kill the

18:49

lion, but the plan doesn't totally

18:51

work. Tab has to save Naru and Paca

18:54

from the lion, and he returns

18:56

having vanquished the lion, and

18:59

Tabe is made war chief. But

19:02

Naru is like, well, there's something still

19:04

out there and if

19:06

I have to, I'll I will go out and hunt

19:09

it by myself. And Toby

19:11

is like, well, you tried and you failed and you

19:13

can't do this, and you're like, Okay, this

19:15

is some real protagonist shit going

19:17

on. Yeah,

19:19

So, not more determined than

19:21

ever, sets off to find whatever this

19:23

huge animal is, this predator

19:26

with I hear kind of incredible shoulders.

19:30

That's just what my friend said. Though great shoulders,

19:33

nice abs, just kind

19:35

of a good overall fish also

19:37

had abs. If you recall so

19:40

many they just kept going. He

19:42

had like forty as he had a lot of absy

19:46

confusing for me. Okay. Anyway,

19:50

So we see Naru tracking

19:53

the predator. She perfects her throwing

19:55

as adds a rope to it so

19:57

that she can easily retract it and catch it. Meanwhile,

20:00

we see the predator alien hunting

20:02

and killing a wolf. It rips

20:04

the wolf's like spine and head off,

20:07

so we're like, oh my gosh, this predator he

20:09

means business and he has this

20:12

yet like terminator like vision,

20:14

like predator vision that is heat

20:16

sensing, so he can see like warm bodies

20:19

wherever he looks. Nauru

20:21

comes across a field of

20:24

slaughtered and skinned bison.

20:27

But wait a minute,

20:29

this wasn't the predator, even though predator

20:32

love to skin things. Because

20:34

she finds a what I think is a cigar, so

20:37

we understand that humans

20:40

did this. Colonizers did this. So

20:44

she continues hunting. She

20:46

gets stuck in like a

20:48

marsh and has to use her axe

20:51

like on a rope to pull herself out

20:54

again, just like an unbelievable sequence.

20:57

The tension in that scene I'm

21:00

trying to I mean, anytime someone falls into

21:02

a large marsh, it's just it's

21:04

going to be thrilling. Yeah,

21:07

it's good. Then she encounters

21:09

a grizzly bear, which is about to

21:11

kill her, but then the bear is distracted

21:14

by the predator and she

21:16

watches Mr. Predator fight

21:19

and brutally kill the bear.

21:22

She manages to escape, then

21:24

bumps into the

21:26

young men from the tribe who are out

21:28

looking for her. Character named

21:31

Wassape is kind of leading the group.

21:34

He forcibly and violently

21:36

tries to bring her back home, but

21:39

she fights back and tries

21:41

to warn them about the huge monster, but

21:43

they don't believe her or take her seriously

21:46

until the predator shows

21:48

up and starts killing the men kind

21:50

of one by one using it's like

21:53

laser pointer and

21:55

advanced alien weaponry,

21:57

which I love. I I they advanced

22:00

alien weaponry still feels like, oh,

22:02

this was like, this is technology from

22:04

the this is what the future was supposed to look like

22:06

in the eighties. Like I just love that element

22:08

to it is. So it's fun because

22:11

going back and watching the advanced

22:14

alien weaponry from the

22:16

first Predator movie in the

22:18

eighties is very

22:20

funny to look. Is it

22:24

the heat sensing vision? Anytime

22:26

you like see the eighties version

22:28

of the heat sensing technology, you're

22:31

like, yep, this is from the eighties.

22:33

That's wait, Johnny, when did you first

22:36

see a Predator movie? Oh?

22:38

I was young? Yeah,

22:40

this is gonna date me that. I

22:43

believe I was eight years old,

22:45

so that would have been nice.

22:50

Yeah, And I mean my family

22:52

loved movies, um, and I

22:55

was basically born a horror

22:57

fans, so you

22:59

know, it wasn't unusual for you

23:01

know, people to let me watch horror

23:03

films because I remember watching

23:06

Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock

23:09

and do you guys remember the TV series The

23:11

Hitcher? What's

23:13

that that was like on USA? And

23:18

Tales from the Dark Side. I know my

23:20

mom has pictures of me like peeking out

23:22

from behind the couch and my hands are over my eyes.

23:25

But that's how I used to watch shows. And I was

23:27

super tiny, so

23:29

sweet. So like, I grew up

23:31

on horror, so you know, I had

23:33

an early introduction into Predator

23:37

and it kind of

23:39

stayed with me because you

23:41

know, the movies aren't that great,

23:43

Like, you know, story wise, there are a lot of action,

23:46

there are a lot of fun, but in terms

23:48

of like a cinematic masterpiece,

23:50

you know, it's it's a

23:52

little debatable, but

23:55

you you root for the movies because

23:58

you love Predator. You know, you

24:00

love this alien because, let's be honest,

24:02

he's always getting his butt kicked. He's

24:05

never come out the winner. He

24:07

may have gotten a couple of kills in, but

24:10

I mean, and it's a formidable opponent

24:12

for sure. Yeah, and he's

24:14

always been taken out by

24:17

human intelligence, which can

24:20

we just can we just talk about how

24:22

absurd that is, Like,

24:25

you're this creature that has

24:28

heat vision and these advanced

24:31

weapons is getting beat by

24:33

humans, and not just beat

24:35

by humans, but literally he

24:37

got hit with a log, you know

24:40

what I mean, like the

24:42

first movie. But

24:45

you still love him, you know what I mean, You still root

24:47

for him. You get excited when you see a Predator

24:49

movie and yeah,

24:53

fish face, Mr Fish.

24:56

That contextualizes it well. I feel

24:59

like the way you're describing your

25:01

feelings about Predator and the Predator franchise

25:03

is how I feel about Jigsaw and the Soft

25:06

franchise, where you're like Okay,

25:08

the first one is genuinely really

25:10

good. The rest we don't really know.

25:12

But am I always rooting for Jigsaw, Yes,

25:15

I am.

25:18

I mean it's the same thing with like, you know, with

25:20

Freddie and Nightmare on Elm Street, Jason.

25:23

You know, like you've got these moments that are so

25:25

good that draw you in, but then

25:28

because you're so invested at that point, like

25:30

it doesn't matter if all the rest of them suck, You're

25:33

still excited for him and you still love

25:35

them absolutely cool.

25:37

I was, Yeah, I'm always curious with like franchises,

25:39

but I feel like eight that has to be that has

25:41

to be such a sweet spot, that's a lifelong pledge

25:44

to the Predator. Yeah, And

25:47

I mean I am just as bad with Michael

25:50

Myers. I'm actually wearing a Michael

25:52

Myers shirt now. Um that is oh

25:54

my gosh fandom that I am

25:57

totally obsessed with. And my whole

25:59

thing, like over at this entire pandemic

26:02

has been just let me live to

26:04

see the end of this trilogy. So

26:07

that's that's how invested I am with

26:10

my fandoms, you know. And it's the same with Predator.

26:12

Like I've seen all of the movies um,

26:15

and I've seen them almost except

26:17

for the first two, all in theaters,

26:20

so numerous times.

26:23

I'm that nerd who's seen I

26:25

hate to admit this Lord of the Rings

26:28

probably about like ten times in

26:30

theaters. I'm not that

26:32

far behind you. I saw a Return

26:34

of the King six times in theaters.

26:37

Like you know, this was back in the day when you

26:40

could afford to go to a movie multiple times.

26:44

But you know, I remember just going to people

26:46

who were like, you're going to see it again, and I was like yes.

26:49

It was like you don't understand. You're

26:52

like, don't judge me. Work

26:55

hard for my money. I will spend it how I want. Yeah,

27:02

okay, so back to back to the recap um.

27:05

Okay. So it's the scene where Predator

27:07

shows up and kills all of

27:10

the young men in this

27:12

group who is looking for Naru. Naru

27:15

narrowly escapes again,

27:17

but oh no, her foot gets

27:19

caught in a trap and

27:22

the predator comes right up to her, but then

27:24

leaves, and then just then

27:27

some French for trappers show up

27:29

and abduct Naru. She

27:31

wakes up. The French demand

27:34

information from her about this monster.

27:37

Turns out they've also captured her brother

27:39

Tabe and the trappers

27:42

tie them up in an open area and

27:45

use them as bait for the predator,

27:48

and mr Predator does

27:50

show up, but rather than taking

27:52

the bait, he kills all of

27:54

the trappers and does not go after

27:57

Naru and Tabeh. Naru

27:59

real eyes is the predator doesn't want

28:02

bait and won't attack anything that

28:04

it doesn't consider a threat, so

28:07

Naru and Tabe eventually

28:10

escape. Tabe sets off to collect

28:12

the frenchman's horses while

28:14

Naru goes after her dog, Sorry,

28:17

who is back at the French camp. And

28:19

she gets there, she has to fight and kill

28:21

a handful of French guys, and

28:23

then she helps out this man whose

28:26

leg was cut off. She gives

28:28

him the medicine that lowers your body temperature

28:31

and he kind of in exchange shows

28:33

her how to use a gun. But

28:36

oh no, the predator

28:38

comes to the camp but doesn't

28:40

see the French guy because his body

28:42

temperature is too cold for the heat sensing

28:45

vision, which is something that Naru

28:47

pieces together. She kind of figures out that if

28:49

you take this medicinal plant, it makes

28:52

it so that the predator can't see you. Meanwhile,

28:55

predator is about to kill the dog,

28:58

but then Tabe shows up on horseback.

29:01

Naru and Tabe launch an attack,

29:04

but the Predator kills Tabe

29:07

and Naru runs away to safety. Every

29:09

time a dog is introduced in

29:12

an action movie, I'm just like, no,

29:15

that dog is going to be in the trenches.

29:17

It um But you know the

29:19

dog survives, I know, and that

29:22

that happy. That's what I call subversion

29:24

volume twenty two.

29:29

So the Naru comes across

29:31

another surviving French guy,

29:33

the same one who had injured her brother,

29:36

so she gives him

29:38

a gun that, oops, doesn't work. This is

29:41

all part of her plan. Basically, she wants

29:43

the Predator to think of him as a threat because he

29:45

has a weapon. But the gun doesn't work, and

29:48

her plan succeeds because Predator

29:51

shows up and kills this French guy,

29:53

giving her the opportunity to have this

29:56

final showdown with Predator.

29:58

She has taken the medicine that lowers

30:00

your body temperature so Predator can't see

30:03

her. They fight, she chops

30:05

off his arm, She pulls him into

30:07

the marsh that she fell into earlier,

30:09

and then using its

30:12

own alien technology against it, she

30:14

is finally able to kill the Predator

30:17

and she returns to her

30:19

village with the decapitated

30:21

head of Mr. Predator the

30:25

glow in the dark blood like,

30:27

oh, it's so cool. Yeah.

30:30

Uh. She reunites with her mom and

30:32

Naru is made the new

30:34

war chief of her tribe.

30:37

So that is the story.

30:40

Let's take another break and we

30:42

will come back to discuss and

30:51

we're back. Okay, where

30:55

shall we start, Johnny, is there anything

30:57

in particular you would like to start the discussion

30:59

with. We can we can jump in what I mean,

31:02

there's a lot we can talk about. There

31:04

is a lot um now, you

31:08

know what I really want people to understand,

31:11

like, is the context of the

31:13

movie because I

31:15

I don't know if you've seen it in Comanche,

31:17

but there's such a huge difference in

31:20

the way that the tone

31:22

and even Naru's motivation is

31:25

portrayed. Because one

31:27

of the fears that I had with this movie

31:30

from the very get go was that people would

31:33

kind of run with the original

31:35

tagline of this being a commanche

31:37

woman who goes against gender

31:40

norms and traditions to become a warrior. And

31:43

in the English version, there are moments

31:45

that kind of that kind

31:48

of hint at that motivation. Um,

31:50

you know, when Naru's talking with her

31:52

mom, and her mom asked, why do you want a hunt? And

31:54

she says, because you all think I can't. It

31:56

seems like she's rebelling and

31:59

that you know she's she's doing it to be

32:01

rebellious and to prove that

32:03

she can and that the tribe

32:06

is kind of holding her back. But if you watch

32:08

it in Command, she it's a

32:10

very different context that it falls

32:13

and the context comes back

32:15

to it being about Nauru, Like

32:17

she's not doing it in spite of the

32:19

tribe. You know, she's doing it to prove it to

32:22

herself, um, that she

32:24

can do it. So

32:26

it's not about you know, everybody else

32:28

doubting her or anybody else's

32:30

you know, ideas being pushed onto her.

32:33

You know, it's about her proving to herself that

32:35

she can. And I thought that was

32:38

one of the most beautiful things about

32:40

this movie being released in Commanche

32:43

and English is because there's

32:45

such a huge difference if you

32:47

listen to if you watch the movie in Commanche,

32:50

you're going to get more context, more humor,

32:53

um and things are just

32:55

better conveyed. I

32:57

guess as far as like the messaging of the movie

33:00

and when you get into the English,

33:02

it almost seems like, which is kind of neat

33:05

for me, because it almost seems

33:07

like the English is the afterthought,

33:10

like a lot of the humor, the nuance,

33:12

you know, like they didn't really it

33:14

doesn't come through in the English version.

33:17

In the English version, you really got to

33:19

watch it in Comanche to get the full

33:21

effect of the movie and just how beautiful

33:23

it is. Um. Even the conversation

33:26

that you know, not Re has with her mother

33:29

and her brother, it's better

33:31

understood. And even just the

33:33

title of the film itself is

33:35

better understood in Comanche

33:38

that it is in English. Um

33:40

pray in Commanche. You know, if

33:42

you're watching it, it's Catamia

33:45

is the trial that she's looking to undergo.

33:48

And that's actually what the movie.

33:50

The title of the movie translates to um

33:53

in commande. So it

33:56

kind of explains why it's not a

33:58

predator movie, like it's not Header than nine,

34:01

you know. So,

34:03

so I thought it was a genius use of

34:05

the language um and shows

34:08

how meaningful and intentful

34:10

they were in the usage

34:12

of the Comanche language. UM.

34:14

So if you're watching in Comanche, like you get

34:17

a totally different experience. And

34:20

so I want people to really kind of understand like, this

34:22

isn't a girl power movie.

34:24

Um, it is, but it's not like

34:26

she was doin it in spite of the

34:28

men in her tribe, like she was

34:30

trying to prove or rebel or anything,

34:33

or they were trying to keep her from it. That

34:35

really wasn't the context that

34:37

they were kind of going for um

34:41

And and there were moments where it really played

34:43

out that way, you know, with the way that

34:45

her interaction with the other warriors, um,

34:49

which for a lot of us was kind of

34:51

problematic because they would not have been

34:53

able to treat her that way back then,

34:56

and they wouldn't. I don't think they really would have thought

34:58

to treat her that way as well,

35:00

um, just because you know, pre colonization,

35:03

you know, our relationships with you

35:06

know, like being women and you know

35:08

men, our relationships were very different.

35:10

It was all about a balance of power. It

35:13

wasn't about men holding power over women

35:16

or women holding power over men. There was

35:18

a balance, and so you

35:20

know, that really kind of didn't come through and

35:23

it was kind of it was a little problematic,

35:26

but you know, like my thinking is

35:28

nothing's perfect, so you

35:30

know, it's still a major

35:33

step up in terms of representation,

35:36

but there are still these little little

35:38

nuances where if you know, like if you're not Native,

35:41

you're going to get something different out of it.

35:43

And I think that could kind of be problematic

35:46

just because so many times,

35:49

you know, even now with like the fan backlash

35:52

from this movie. You know that what I like to

35:54

call the Foe boys, because they're

35:56

not really fans. They're just like agency chaos

35:58

who come in and just try to try ash things in, create

36:02

drama. That's how they have joy

36:04

in their life, which is um

36:06

interesting. So sad, yes,

36:09

that is the word. That is the word sad,

36:11

pathetic, embarrassing, Yeah, but you know, like

36:14

it kind of plays into that because I don't

36:16

know how many comments I've seen after this we're

36:18

like, oh, Native men were brutal

36:20

to women and you know, they were raping

36:22

and blah blah blah blah, and they project

36:25

all of this you know, violence onto

36:28

onto Native communities that wasn't there

36:30

just because of the stereotypes that we've typically

36:33

seen in movies. So

36:35

you know, when I see things like that, like I always

36:37

worry about, like what the takeaway is going to

36:39

be, Like are people going to be like, see, that's how

36:41

they really treated their Native women and you

36:44

know, and it's like, no, it's a little more

36:46

complicated than that, right,

36:49

Yeah. So I saw it in both the English

36:51

and Comanche and just

36:53

kind of, yeah, what plays out in in both

36:56

versions to I think a lesser

36:58

extent in Comanche, but still have those scenes

37:01

where the men aren't taking

37:03

her seriously, they're being violent towards

37:05

her, They're enforcing what feels

37:07

like kind of like white Christian

37:10

sexism on

37:12

to her. And I'm like, that doesn't that didn't totally

37:15

track. And I was glad that you mentioned

37:17

that in your piece as well, Johnny, because I

37:19

was like, I don't know, I was like,

37:22

this doesn't seem to square

37:25

very well, and it's it seems to be kind of like

37:27

a current film

37:30

trope that has made its way into this

37:32

story where it doesn't make sense for the period

37:34

and the culture that this story takes

37:36

place in, because it just feels like kind of

37:38

this like loose, like

37:40

like you said in your like a girl power narrative

37:43

that like is taking place in a

37:45

vacuum sort of. Yeah, And

37:48

because I mean, you know, I see

37:50

this so often when we have discussions

37:52

of like you know, especially like with women's

37:54

issues, and women's rights.

37:57

A lot of like white patriarchal values

38:00

in feminist ideas get kind of projected

38:02

onto Indigenous communities,

38:04

which you know, for me, it's

38:07

annoying because it kind of whitewashes

38:10

and erases the inherent strength

38:14

and power of Indigenous

38:16

women that we've always had. You know,

38:18

pre colonization, we weren't oppressed

38:21

in our communities. You know,

38:23

we were you

38:26

know, they women have always kind of been the backbones

38:28

of our societies and respected

38:30

and treated well, you know, we held power,

38:33

um, but it wasn't like we held power over

38:36

um. You know, it was just like an equal

38:38

distribution of power. Like our

38:41

our thoughts, our work, our labor,

38:43

everything had value and was respected.

38:46

So you know, I always worry about

38:48

when it's projected onto us because it

38:51

really it almost

38:53

is kind of like a way to deflect from

38:57

the trauma of colonization, like

39:00

to kind of be like, oh, well, you know, like look

39:02

what they were doing. You know, they were they were pushing

39:05

people into this, but it's not the same

39:07

context. And you know, I don't if

39:09

you're not Native like and not familiar

39:12

with Native history or cultures or

39:14

communities, you don't really

39:16

understand like that the nuances

39:18

that exist and so when I mean

39:21

that was my main worry with this movie was just

39:23

how like how

39:25

these like patriarchal values were being

39:28

kind of projected. And you know, and I

39:30

kind of understand it to an extent too, because

39:32

you know, this is a movie for a mass market

39:35

and you know it has to you

39:37

know, viewers have to watch it and understand

39:40

what's going on. And while

39:42

I wish it wasn't like they

39:45

wish they would have tweaked it a little bit in

39:47

different ways, um,

39:49

I think it still did a really good job

39:52

of showing, you know, the

39:54

overall theme, right,

39:58

because the one thing that really annoyed me,

40:01

you know was just the fact that the like

40:03

the men warriors that she was going

40:05

out with, like the hunting parties and everything

40:08

that you know, her brother would not have

40:10

allowed them to treat her that way

40:12

or to talk to her that way. Um,

40:14

And they would not have treated her that way,

40:17

especially once her brother became

40:20

you know, like they're like they're war chief. You

40:22

know, that wouldn't have happened. And the

40:24

part where you know they really kind

40:27

of just beat the crap out of her, Um,

40:30

if if it was from a different tone

40:33

it would have made sense if they

40:35

weren't doing it to be sexist,

40:37

if they weren't you know, telling

40:40

her like, oh, you should be back in the village

40:42

cooking, you know, like it kind of

40:44

would have made sense because Nate, you

40:46

know, I grew up kind

40:49

of like I have brothers and sisters, um,

40:52

and we used to fight and

40:54

you know, like where I'm talking punching somebody's

40:56

bleeding and you

40:59

know, so it would have made sense if they were treating

41:01

her as an equal, like a sister, and

41:04

they were kind of like wrestling around and

41:06

you know, fighting, it would have made

41:08

sense, you know. But the fact

41:10

that there was this very misogynistic

41:13

tone to it didn't make sense.

41:15

Like if they were if she was fighting them to

41:18

prove that she could right like

41:20

hanging with the boys, it

41:22

would have been different because that's something that

41:25

totally happens, like you you fight with your brothers

41:27

to show you're just as stronger, just as good as

41:29

you know, right right. But that misogynistic

41:32

tone just was like there

41:35

are a few lines that felt very

41:37

like c w e in

41:40

just like the oversimplification

41:42

of the missile, like I mean just sort

41:44

of echoing what you're saying. But then in

41:46

the relationship with Naro

41:49

and Tabe, there were

41:51

moments where it felt

41:54

like that, like it became it

41:56

worked for me a lot better when he was doubting

41:58

her because she was his

42:00

younger sibling versus like

42:03

you are a woman and I don't respect you.

42:06

Yeah, And it wasn't just that they were doubting

42:09

her ability to because

42:11

if you watch it in command she, like I said, you get

42:13

more nuanced and you kind of understand that

42:16

they're not worried about whether or not

42:18

she can do it. They're worried about

42:21

whether or not she's doing it for the right reasons,

42:23

and whether or not she understands

42:26

what it is she's doing and

42:29

what it means. And

42:31

because like for her, you know, it is kind

42:34

of like a rebellion. She's stubborn,

42:36

she's headstrong, and she you

42:38

know, like she she knows she wants to do

42:40

this, and you know, there's even

42:42

a part where her mom tells her that,

42:45

you know, you want to take Katamiyah. And you think

42:47

that it's only about the hunt and the kill,

42:50

but the whole point of it is survival.

42:53

Like it's it's not about just going

42:55

out and hunting. It's about knowing how to

42:57

survive. And you know, when you're

42:59

talking it about survival, that's not

43:02

just knowing when to fight, but also when to retreat.

43:04

Because that was you know, when they had this conversation.

43:07

It was after they

43:09

went hunting for the Mountain Lion, and

43:12

you know, like she almost died. And

43:14

even her brother, you know, when he's

43:16

trying to give her share credit, he's like,

43:18

you know, like we did it. And

43:20

then of course Naru is kind of being

43:24

brad and you know, because like

43:26

I think it is since she thinks her brother took her

43:28

victory from her or her opportunity.

43:31

So and you know, and then he's like, you know what,

43:33

fine, we didn't do this. I did this,

43:36

and you know, just kind of like trying to

43:39

kind of taking it back from her like

43:41

this entitlement. I guess, you know,

43:44

like you know, I was trying to share

43:46

this with you. But if you're going to be that way, no,

43:48

like if you're going to love her, jet to put yourself

43:51

in danger again. Yeah, and

43:53

and then of course you know what did she do. She took

43:55

off and she put herself into dange But

43:59

you know, I thought it was a good way to kind

44:01

of show that nuance. You know that they were

44:04

genuinely just more

44:06

worried that she was rushing into something

44:08

that she didn't understand. And

44:10

you know, and when you're coming doing coming of age

44:13

ceremonies or when you're going into ceremony

44:15

in our communities, you know,

44:18

knowing what you're getting into and the responsibilities

44:21

that come with it um are

44:23

very important and it's something that's very stressed.

44:26

You know, like they don't want you just to jump into

44:28

it just because you think it's cool or

44:30

you know, to be trendy or to be different or

44:32

whatever. Um, they really want you to understand,

44:35

you know what the meaning of the ceremony is

44:38

that and you go into it with the right kind

44:40

of mind, your heart's right. So

44:42

I really thought that was kind of like a really smart

44:45

way to kind of show that, you know, that they

44:47

wanted her to understand

44:49

what it is she was undertaking and the responsibilities

44:52

that come with that. The conversations

44:54

with like Tabi and you know Nauru

44:56

were so beautiful to me because that was the

44:59

perfect sibling like conversations.

45:01

You know, the brother trying to impart wisdom and

45:03

she's over there pretending to snore, and

45:07

you know, I mean, there was just so many things that were beautiful

45:09

about that. But I really loved

45:11

that they were kind of showing

45:13

that care, and I wish

45:15

they would have kind of carried that over to where

45:18

the rest of the hunting party or the rest of the people

45:20

in the village, you know, kind of had that same

45:23

mindset too, instead of adding

45:25

that misogynistic kind of viewpoint

45:28

in there, you know, where it was like, oh, you

45:30

you know, why are you here? You

45:33

know, it's we're not going to be out here long. We don't

45:35

need to cook, you know, we need a Yeah,

45:38

that one, I was just like, okay, rolling

45:40

a little bit of that. I think those

45:43

scenes could have also worked

45:45

if the narrative had been kind of

45:47

adjusted so that because

45:49

what's happening is that she is is like,

45:52

because she's such a good tracker, she's noticing

45:55

all these kind of peculiar

45:57

things, right like the skin snake and the

46:00

the large footprint, and she's like, there's something

46:02

else out here. It seems like,

46:04

you know, a monster from like

46:06

our folklore. And of course

46:08

if someone tells you that, it's going to be difficult

46:10

to believe, especially

46:13

like they know these lands very well, they

46:15

know the wildlife So if it had just

46:17

been them sort of being like, well,

46:21

like, it doesn't sound like you're talking about something

46:23

that's real, so that it's like

46:25

we're having a trouble believing

46:28

you. And and of course they would

46:30

have trouble because this thing that she's encountering

46:33

is like not of this world, like not

46:35

something they're familiar with. So even

46:37

if something like that had been more leaned

46:39

into if it's like, well, yeah, we're not taking you seriously

46:43

because you're describing something that doesn't

46:45

exist, or that like we're not aware

46:47

of yeah, or even if they

46:49

had been joking about it, like even

46:51

if the tone, like the delivery of the

46:53

lines was less violent, less

46:55

angry, Um, I think it would

46:57

have played out like, oh, they're just joking with

47:00

her and you know, kind of hazing

47:02

a little bit like

47:04

brothers and sisters do. And I

47:07

would have made a little more sense to me. But like

47:09

that that violent undertone with

47:12

everything and how they interacted with her,

47:14

you know, just didn't really sit well with me, Um,

47:17

and I but I understand, you know, they had

47:19

to do that more for like

47:22

the mass market, for other people to

47:24

to understand like what what this

47:27

is and to kind of have that conflict

47:30

like beyond her just fighting a predator,

47:33

So like I kind of understand it, but at

47:35

the same time, like I don't like it, but it's still

47:37

it does feel like kind of insidious

47:40

and bizarre that like to

47:42

make a movie mass market of all, you have to

47:45

layer on white Christian

47:47

misogynist oppression onto a

47:49

story. You're like, why

47:51

there's because it does like feel like the story

47:54

has if you take away

47:56

like you're saying, Johnny, like the tone of a lot

47:58

of those interactions and just like some of

48:01

the like kind of overwritten lines

48:03

that are are lobbed at nar

48:05

like everything you need is there to

48:08

understand why things are playing

48:10

out the way they are. In addition to like something

48:13

that I like that isn't said

48:15

constantly, but I felt like you could feel

48:18

was like this family has already endured

48:20

a loss, so of course they're

48:23

going to be worried about

48:25

a very headstrong family

48:27

member because they've already lost somebody.

48:30

Like that is a very universal

48:32

dynamic. I don't understand why this stuff had to

48:34

be added. And there was a really beautiful

48:36

scene to um when Naru first

48:38

started just heading out of the village. They

48:41

kind of did the overseens like the overhead

48:44

shot where she's walking out of the village but

48:46

all everybody else is walking in. And

48:49

it was a very beautiful shot because

48:51

for me, you know, Indigenous communities

48:54

have always been communital, a communal.

48:57

You know, you everything is for the betterment

48:59

of the community. You don't have people

49:02

just going off on their own and doing their own

49:04

thing because they have a responsibility

49:07

to the community. So

49:09

it was a beautiful way, and

49:11

it could be taken two ways, right because

49:15

you could see it as her going against

49:17

the norms. You know, she's

49:19

going off on her own, she's daring

49:21

to be different kind of thing, like you could get

49:24

that out of that shot. But one of the things

49:26

that I got out of it was you kind of

49:28

see where her family's worry

49:31

was valid because

49:34

you know, she's she is being

49:36

headstrong, she is being stubborn, and she's

49:39

going out on her own, unprotected,

49:42

without any backup, without letting anybody

49:44

know. And you know she while

49:47

she does have her own valid reasons

49:49

for doing so, it kind

49:51

of validates that concern that her brother

49:53

and her mother had. You know that she doesn't

49:56

understand what it is she's undertaking, and

49:58

she really doesn't you know, like when she's

50:00

out there, you know, she starts to understand like, oh, this

50:02

is bigger than I thought it was, Like this is different,

50:05

this is more dangerous um

50:07

and realizing like I'm not equipped

50:09

to deal with this, like I wasn't

50:12

prepared for this, and you can kind

50:14

of see that, and you kind of see that

50:16

development too, like thank goodness

50:18

she's observant, because that could have ended so

50:20

badly if she wasn't. But the fact

50:22

that she was able to watch and

50:24

to really learn and

50:27

you know, just kind of helped her survive this

50:29

entire ordeal with the predator.

50:32

But it could have ended so different because

50:34

she went out just like you know, there's

50:36

something out there, but I don't know what it is, and

50:38

I'm just going to go out there with my dog, you

50:41

know, and not let anybody know because

50:43

it's not like she had a cell phone to call for help, you

50:45

know. So

50:48

it was really interesting for me to see

50:51

how they showed that and just how

50:53

different, like your perspective

50:55

is going to be depending on your own personal

50:58

viewpoints or perspectives and experiences

51:01

when you're watching this movie, like you're going

51:03

to read into it some something

51:05

different, like there's several different ways that everything

51:07

can be taken um which I think

51:09

is one of the most genius things about the

51:12

film is because if

51:14

you're watching it from a Native perspective, it's

51:16

going to be very your experience is very

51:18

different than a non Native who's

51:20

watching the same scene, Like it's You're going to get

51:22

two different things out of it. So I

51:24

thought, you know, that was a really beautiful thing.

51:27

But also again it could

51:29

be a little problematic. But I'm going with

51:31

the positive here. Well, I mean, especially

51:34

like Native audiences seem to

51:36

generally agree that this movie

51:38

is is a pretty big step forward as

51:40

far as Native representation goes

51:42

in media, especially considering

51:44

how how low the bar is.

51:48

Yes, I mean, most American

51:50

media has portrayed Indigenous

51:53

people very unfavorably, like

51:55

a lot of racist stereotypes being leaned

51:57

into Native characters being

52:00

played by white actors, stories

52:02

being told from the point of view of white

52:04

characters where the Native

52:06

characters are on the sideline, or

52:09

just being used as set dressing. I mean the

52:11

list goes on right or only validated

52:14

as characters once they ally with the white

52:16

characters. And yeah, yeah,

52:19

and and and you know, that's one of the things that I

52:21

was kind of worried about, like from the very get go,

52:24

and I was so glad to be proven wrong

52:26

in a lot of regards. Um. But I'm

52:28

also one of those people, you know, I practice what I

52:30

like to call critical nerd theory um,

52:33

and it's being able to watch and consume

52:36

our media and being able

52:38

to be critical about like the problems

52:40

within that media while

52:43

also like acknowledging like you can still

52:45

love this, you know, like it doesn't mean

52:47

that you have to throw it all away because it's

52:49

not perfect. That's pretty much

52:51

the thesis of our podcast. Yeah.

52:54

Yeah, Like this was such a

52:56

milestone for the Commanche nation

52:59

in terms of the way that their tribe

53:01

has been portrayed in movies. This is one of the only

53:04

movies that has really portrayed

53:06

Comanche people. Well. Um,

53:08

And I was laughing because you know,

53:10

again, I'm a horror nerd and I

53:13

was thinking back too. I was trying to think,

53:15

like, is there another movie where Comanche

53:17

people have been mentioned or portrayed?

53:20

And yes there is. And it's a movie

53:22

that I loved growing up

53:25

and I recently found it on YouTube

53:28

and it did not age. Well. It

53:30

is so bad. It's called

53:32

the Seller. Oh I read about

53:34

this movie. I have not seen it before. Yeah,

53:37

it's this it's an old movie. I believe

53:39

it was, like I think it came out

53:41

around the same time as The

53:44

First Predator. Actually, um,

53:46

it may be in a couple of years later, but it's around

53:48

that same time. And you know,

53:51

it's about a family that

53:53

moves into this you know, the dad lost

53:55

his job and you know, he's got

53:57

to take this oil rig job and

54:00

they move out into the middle of nowhere and

54:03

there's a monster in the area that

54:06

is has been kind of kept dormant.

54:08

You know that there's a native man and

54:10

he's he's been kind of tasked

54:13

with making sure that this creature stays

54:15

dormant, and you know, he's got

54:17

spears and grounds to keep it underground.

54:21

And of course, you know, the the

54:23

white guy and his kid see

54:25

one of the spears and the kids like, Dad, can

54:27

I have it? And he's like, yeah, sure, go ahead, take

54:29

it. The kid takes it, and all hell

54:31

is unleashed. But the monster,

54:35

you know in this movie was the

54:37

Comanche, and some

54:39

of the other tribes in the area were

54:42

you know, trying to figure out how to get

54:44

rid of the white men, and so they created

54:46

this monster called um coguy.

54:49

I think it was um. I might

54:51

be butchering the pronunciation, but

54:53

you know, it's coguay. And it was a

54:55

mix of all these different animals

54:58

like lions and alligators and stuff like

55:00

that, and it was supposed to kill the white man and you

55:02

know, and one of the guys was like, well, you

55:05

know, if it if it was supposed

55:08

to protect the natives, you know, why are you guys keeping

55:10

it locked up? And the

55:12

guy's like, well, it started killing indians

55:14

too. So it's

55:16

so bad that I

55:19

had not heard of that movie before I

55:22

read about it referenced does yeah

55:24

a movie that did not age very well. Yeah,

55:27

Like I watched it on a YouTube and I was

55:29

just like, how is this one of my favorite

55:32

movies? Because I used to watch it every

55:34

time it came on and I would just

55:36

be so excited to watch it. So,

55:39

you know, that's the only other horror

55:41

movie that has made

55:43

really made mention of Comanche

55:46

people, and it was just terrible.

55:48

So for them to have prey, you know, that's a

55:50

huge step up. But also just

55:53

the way that this movie is something

55:55

that is not only kind of

55:57

showing the Comanche culture and a lot

55:59

of different ways UM, but

56:02

also helping with language preservation.

56:04

You know, this is something that young people

56:06

who are looking to learn their language can see

56:08

this movie and be like more

56:11

inspired to learn their language, to

56:13

see it used in a more modern context,

56:16

rather than it being something that's just always

56:18

put in the past. Yeah, for

56:20

sure, I wanted to, yeah,

56:23

go into that a little bit, or just more

56:25

into the production

56:28

history of this movie. I feel like we've talked about it

56:30

a little bit, but I just want to jump

56:32

in so I believe this

56:35

is the first movie to be completely

56:37

dubbed in commanche by

56:39

all of the actors are doing their own

56:42

dubs. I really enjoyed like the

56:44

reading about I mean, Amber mid Thunder has

56:46

given some really fabulous email

56:49

or interviews, emails, Jamie

56:52

interviews. She's been sending emails.

56:54

She's on fire, but

56:57

really amazing UM insights into

56:59

how the movie was produced, and like even

57:01

just reading about her AX training

57:04

and all the practical stuff she did because she they

57:06

put her in the fucking trenches. But reading

57:09

about how Amber mid Thunder and other

57:12

UM actors in the movie were,

57:15

you know, either knew some ord had

57:17

to be taught how to do their own dubs.

57:19

I thought, was like, so incredible, So

57:22

get this. So um.

57:24

Dan Trackenberg had originally

57:26

pitched the movie to only be in Commanche,

57:30

and so when they were holding auditions

57:33

for the roles, like they would come in and

57:35

they were doing their lines in English, but

57:38

then they literally handed

57:40

them the script right then and there in

57:42

Comanche, with no direction

57:45

on how to say the words or anything,

57:49

because they wanted to see how

57:51

well they would be able just to read

57:53

it and make, you know, like how well they'd

57:55

be able to work it out and

57:58

um, because that would kind of give the an

58:00

idea of how quickly they would be able to

58:03

learn the Commanche language or their proficiency.

58:06

And so I was kind of shocked

58:08

because I was like, oh my gosh, I would have

58:11

just died right then and there right

58:13

you know, like you're like they give they give

58:16

you the script in English and you do your lines

58:18

and you're like, I killed it. Then they're like wait wait

58:20

a second, an there you go, and yeah,

58:23

and it's in a language that you've never

58:25

seen before or never heard spoken.

58:28

I would have died, like I would have been like oh

58:31

what, I was like.

58:33

Auditions are stressful enough as it is,

58:35

like oh my god, and

58:37

then they have to do it in a foreign language,

58:40

you know, like without any direction

58:43

or anything. Um. So I

58:45

thought that was really unique

58:48

and a testament to the talent of this caste,

58:51

to the cast because they all had to learn

58:54

commanche, and you know, the command

58:56

She Language Department, the Commanding

58:58

Nation Language Department, did such

59:00

a phenomenal job in teaching

59:03

them. Because you know, there's been other native

59:05

productions and they're

59:07

really good, um Dark Winds

59:09

for example. You know, like

59:11

the story is good, the acting is good, but

59:14

when it comes to incorporating the language,

59:16

you know, there were a lot of Avajo people who were

59:18

kind of criticizing how the language

59:21

was used, like it was things weren't being said

59:23

right or you know, from the right

59:26

um perspective.

59:28

I guess, um, because in a

59:30

lot of our native languages, there's

59:33

differences in the way that you say things

59:35

for men and for women. So

59:38

you know, like there's there's variations on words

59:40

that only a man you know, that's what the way

59:43

he would say it, and then there's you

59:45

know, the way a woman would say it. You know, so

59:48

there's like a gender difference in our language.

59:51

And so you know, that also comes into play

59:53

when you hear our languages being spoken,

59:56

because sometimes you're cracking up dances

59:58

with wolves, they use some lacoda

1:00:01

words, but the way that they

1:00:03

used them was from a woman's perspective,

1:00:05

the way a woman would say those words. So there

1:00:07

were a lot of people you know that still make fun

1:00:09

of that, you know, like, oh, you know, he's

1:00:12

he's talking like a woman. So

1:00:16

you know, like there's there's it's really hard

1:00:18

to get native languages correct

1:00:20

because oftentimes, you

1:00:22

know, it's not natives from those

1:00:25

tribes speaking those languages,

1:00:27

so they really don't know any different.

1:00:30

So for the Commanding Nation Language

1:00:32

Department to be as involved as they were,

1:00:35

and for the time that they took, you

1:00:37

know, to really make sure that the actors

1:00:39

were learning the language, learning the pronunciation

1:00:43

um really just kind of showed the

1:00:45

care that was going into this production. But

1:00:47

also, you know, Amber mid Thunder has talked

1:00:50

about it too that she was really worried

1:00:52

about taking on this movie because she

1:00:55

was scared of how Indian country would respond

1:00:57

to it. Like she wanted to do it right,

1:00:59

she wanted to do it justice, and

1:01:02

you know she had she worried, you know,

1:01:04

she was like when I first got this and I found out

1:01:06

is a Predator movie, She's like I cried, you

1:01:09

know, not She's like and not tears of happy,

1:01:11

but like just kind of like I

1:01:14

was worried, you know, like, oh no, like

1:01:16

this is a huge franchise and I

1:01:18

can't be the one to mess at EBB. Well

1:01:21

that and I imagine, you know, there's

1:01:23

so much pressure put on Indigenous

1:01:26

actors, actors from really

1:01:29

any marginalized community to represent

1:01:32

their community well because there's

1:01:34

just so few examples

1:01:36

in media of positive representations

1:01:40

of those people of those communities. So it's

1:01:42

just again speaks to a need for

1:01:45

more stories to exist.

1:01:48

Um. But yeah, so I imagine part of it was

1:01:50

like this this pressure to

1:01:53

represent her community. Well, I mean I can't

1:01:55

imagine. Um. I

1:01:57

wanted to share a couple of quotes,

1:02:00

Um, Amber mid Thunder. I, Um,

1:02:02

I've seen her in in stuff before.

1:02:05

Um, but this was I think the first like big leading

1:02:07

role I had seen her in. Um, except

1:02:10

I did watch Roswell in New Mexico. I really

1:02:12

liked that show. Wow. Anyways, uh

1:02:14

so she has she's from an acting

1:02:17

family, and uh

1:02:19

so I read a few things about

1:02:21

just sort of how she has, you

1:02:23

know, born witness kind of her whole life

1:02:25

to how Indigenous people are represented

1:02:28

in movies and in TV, and how those

1:02:30

talks, what those talks were like in her family.

1:02:32

So I just wanted to share some quotes

1:02:34

from her. Here's one, uh

1:02:38

quote. When you're represented by something you can't

1:02:40

relate to or feel represent you poorly,

1:02:42

that does affect you. My dad

1:02:44

is an actor, but even still we would have a

1:02:46

lot of conversations about how that was

1:02:49

really not the way to do it, or ha

1:02:51

ha, this is what they gave us to wear. Growing

1:02:54

up, my parents handled it like an inside joke

1:02:56

rather than being constantly hurt or offended by

1:02:58

stuff. But getting old are in looking at

1:03:00

it, I can see the importance of representing things

1:03:02

accurately and respectfully on film,

1:03:05

especially because to someone who doesn't grow up

1:03:07

in an indigenous community or really close to

1:03:09

one, it's maybe the only source of information

1:03:12

unquote. Another

1:03:14

major behind the scenes player I

1:03:16

wanted to make sure we shouted out and spoke about

1:03:18

a little bit was Jane Yes.

1:03:22

Jane Myers is a producer

1:03:24

on this film. She is a

1:03:26

Comanche woman. Uh and she

1:03:30

it sounds like I mean, I found like a bunch

1:03:32

of different examples of things

1:03:34

she had done, different representations of

1:03:36

just like, for example, horses

1:03:38

or the original draft of the movie there was

1:03:41

like no horses involved in. Jane Myers

1:03:43

was like, there has to be a horse like that, just

1:03:45

basics to her culture that you

1:03:48

know, this movie, it should be Z is

1:03:50

written and directed by white guys.

1:03:52

Still, and so while I think it's

1:03:55

really really critical that there

1:03:57

is a commanche producer on

1:03:59

the movie, it's like, I

1:04:01

mean, what would they have done without her? It's

1:04:03

so messed up a lot more things.

1:04:06

We'd be having a very different conversation.

1:04:09

Yeah, and joking quite

1:04:12

a bit more about this movie.

1:04:15

Yes, yes, yes, um so yeah. It was written.

1:04:18

It was directed by Dan Tractonberg,

1:04:20

who's best known for ten Cloverfield Lane,

1:04:23

I believe, which I did love that movie. It

1:04:25

is fun um and written by Patrick

1:04:28

asan An not really sure how to pronounce

1:04:31

his last name. Um. But these are two white men.

1:04:33

And while I think it's largely agreed

1:04:35

that the movie is well researched,

1:04:37

and you know, they listened

1:04:40

to producer Jane Myers and

1:04:42

you know, did as much research as possible,

1:04:45

worked with their cast to work with the convention nation

1:04:47

like, but still two white guys, Still

1:04:49

two white guys. And I think the conversation we had

1:04:51

earlier about um, this kind

1:04:53

of insertion of gender

1:04:56

roles and and sexism

1:04:59

that is not authentic to indigenous

1:05:02

communities would probably

1:05:05

have not been in the movie had been

1:05:07

written and directed by indigenous filmmakers.

1:05:10

So, and we've talked about this

1:05:13

on the podcast quite a bit before about

1:05:15

how it feels like we are in this phase

1:05:17

of Hollywood right now where it

1:05:20

seems like Hollywood is finally listening to and

1:05:22

doing something about the strong

1:05:25

demand for stories that aren't

1:05:27

just about cis at white men.

1:05:30

But those are the only people that they

1:05:32

are still allowing to make movies.

1:05:36

Obviously I'm exaggerating. Creators

1:05:38

of many different backgrounds are

1:05:41

being given more opportunities than

1:05:43

before, but just

1:05:45

like the very gate keeper nature of

1:05:47

Hollywood, Yeah, and it's and

1:05:49

it's also like thinking about the quality

1:05:52

of the opportunities that they are being given

1:05:55

because I feel like, you

1:05:58

know, they like to jump on the bandwagon, you

1:06:00

know, Native representation. It's a hot topic

1:06:02

right now, and we've seen the success

1:06:04

of Rutherford Falls and reservation Dogs

1:06:07

and you know, Dark Winds came

1:06:09

out, and of course Pray and you

1:06:11

know, like these are critically acclaimed series

1:06:14

and movies now, and

1:06:17

I feel like, you know, Hollywood is

1:06:19

always like trying to jump on that next

1:06:21

best thing. So now they're like, Okay, you

1:06:23

know what, there is a market for this, so

1:06:26

let's go with it. And they're given Natives

1:06:28

opportunities, but they're also not while

1:06:30

the opportunity is there, they're not necessarily

1:06:33

getting the support they need for

1:06:35

those productions to be as successful

1:06:37

as they could be. Um.

1:06:40

You know, we recently saw the cancelation of

1:06:42

Rutherford Falls, and I feel like that is

1:06:44

a perfect example of that because

1:06:46

like there wasn't a lot of advertisement.

1:06:50

Um, there wasn't a lot of marketing anywhere

1:06:52

for Rutherford Falls, like for a while,

1:06:55

like with season two. UM, I

1:06:57

saw maybe a couple of posters on a

1:06:59

couple of US ops and I think they had a

1:07:01

bus at at one point. But

1:07:03

that's the only promotion that I saw

1:07:05

outside of Indian Country,

1:07:08

UM, outside of Native people really

1:07:10

pushing the show. And it

1:07:12

almost felt like the responsibility was

1:07:15

put on, you know, the show runners

1:07:17

and the writers and the actors to

1:07:19

really try and make the show as successful

1:07:22

as they could do, but

1:07:24

they didn't have studio support, Like they

1:07:26

didn't have the money behind

1:07:29

them to really make that show successful

1:07:32

as it could have been. And then of course,

1:07:34

you know, they kind of get punished for the impact,

1:07:36

which is, you know, not having the viewership.

1:07:39

But I think if more people had

1:07:41

been able to see some kind of marketing or

1:07:43

some kind of push for it, you know, it

1:07:46

could be just as successful

1:07:48

as Reservation Dogs and as Prey

1:07:51

because Rutherford Falls was so

1:07:53

beautiful. Um, the second season

1:07:56

was amazing to me. Um. There's

1:07:59

a dirty dancing gomage too that's

1:08:01

just freaking killed it. Uh.

1:08:04

There's also a party scene where

1:08:07

they have like what I call

1:08:09

a condiment throw down, where

1:08:11

you have some Native women that are all dressed

1:08:14

as condiments because the hot guys in

1:08:16

a hot dog suit. And then

1:08:18

they're all fighting over this guy and he doesn't

1:08:20

even know they're fighting over him, which

1:08:22

I find hilarious. Special

1:08:25

to me, it is, it is such a

1:08:27

special show, and I wish they would have

1:08:29

had the support. And I feel

1:08:32

like that's kind of the worry now, is

1:08:34

that so many studios are going to be giving natives

1:08:37

the opportunity to do these shows and

1:08:40

taking that chance, but then the responsibility

1:08:43

of the success of those shows is also going

1:08:45

to be put on the show runners.

1:08:48

And then, of course, you know, when it comes to marginalized

1:08:51

people, you know, we don't oftentimes

1:08:54

get a second chance. You

1:08:56

know, we only have that one chance,

1:08:58

and if you're not successful, you're

1:09:00

not getting another chance. Meanwhile, you

1:09:03

know, if it was a white show runner, you

1:09:05

know they can make a bad show after bad

1:09:07

show after bad show and keep getting opportunity

1:09:10

after opportunity, and not only

1:09:12

opportunity, but the marketing

1:09:15

to try and make those things successful for inferior

1:09:19

shows. Yeah, exactly, because

1:09:21

I guarantee you if Pray

1:09:24

did not have Dan Tracknenburg attached

1:09:26

to it, we wouldn't

1:09:28

be having this conversation. It wouldn't

1:09:30

be the production that it is. Um Like,

1:09:33

the studio wouldn't have invested the money

1:09:35

that they did for the marketing. Because

1:09:37

I mean, it was incredible here in l A. Because

1:09:40

just driving to the

1:09:42

supermarket, you passed reservation boards

1:09:45

billboards, and then you pre

1:09:48

you're passing prey billboards and

1:09:50

like there's still prey billboards up now,

1:09:53

And it's such an incredible thing to

1:09:56

to be native in l A and to

1:09:58

be just driving around and you're and like Native

1:10:01

Film, Native show, you know, and

1:10:03

to see them getting that marketing

1:10:05

because you know, those billboards are not cheap

1:10:08

and they're not the tiny little billboards

1:10:11

like these are massive billboards.

1:10:13

And one of the prey billboards

1:10:15

that I saw actually had like where

1:10:18

the red lights were were actually lit up

1:10:21

kind of reflective. Yeah,

1:10:23

so I was like wow, Like they

1:10:25

went out and of course,

1:10:27

you know, they were really mindful

1:10:30

to try and include Native journalists and the

1:10:32

marketing and the press um,

1:10:34

you know, and I think that was so phenomenal

1:10:36

because that doesn't happen with a

1:10:38

lot of other shows, even if Natives

1:10:41

are included, like we're not included.

1:10:43

So they so this entire production was

1:10:46

really intentful in

1:10:48

making sure that Native people were

1:10:50

included in almost every aspect

1:10:53

of the rollout and development.

1:10:55

So you know, it's really special,

1:10:58

and I feel like Hollywood

1:11:01

needs to do a better job of giving us,

1:11:04

you know, full support, not just the opportunity,

1:11:06

but making sure that you know, we're supported

1:11:09

behind the scenes and also

1:11:11

you know, given the opportunity to to

1:11:14

kind of learn um

1:11:16

because I feel so many of the time they're

1:11:19

they're giving people like the opportunity, but they expect

1:11:21

you to go in and just know what you're doing. But

1:11:24

you know, not a lot of people have, you

1:11:26

know, familiarity with how marketing

1:11:28

works or with you know, how you're

1:11:30

going to push the film. And

1:11:33

it's just I don't know. I feel

1:11:35

like there's a lot of support, like the opportunities

1:11:37

there now, but now we don't have the support, and

1:11:40

the support is kind of like a major component

1:11:43

to success. So

1:11:46

it's kind of a catch twenty two because I

1:11:48

feel I don't want to see a lot of really

1:11:50

amazing Native talent being

1:11:53

given this opportunity but then being just

1:11:55

spit out, you know, if they don't have

1:11:57

the support they need and it's

1:11:59

as successful right

1:12:02

off the back is like reservation dogs,

1:12:04

right, And it's I I think that

1:12:06

that's like such we've we've tried

1:12:08

to touch on this in the show before, but the like

1:12:10

the idea that there's not

1:12:13

that institutional support for Native filmmakers

1:12:15

that there is for Dan

1:12:17

Trachtenburg, Like we need to get to a place

1:12:19

where you don't need the endorsement of

1:12:22

a Dan Tractenburg in order to get

1:12:24

the institutional support that Prey did.

1:12:27

Like it's just and it feels

1:12:29

like we're still very very much stuck

1:12:31

in that gate

1:12:34

keeping aspect, like that has not been

1:12:37

overcome. Yeah, and and it's very different

1:12:39

for us too, because you

1:12:42

know, I recently did an interview with

1:12:45

with Monique Jones, and you know, she asked

1:12:47

me like, well, do you think there's going to be more

1:12:49

Native content now? And I'm like, there

1:12:52

is an incredible amount of Native

1:12:55

content now and there always

1:12:57

has been because we have two

1:12:59

different film industries for

1:13:01

for Natives, Like we have Hollywood, the Hollywood

1:13:04

industry, but we also have our

1:13:06

own Native film industry

1:13:09

because we've been kept out of Hollywood for

1:13:11

so long that in order for our

1:13:13

creatives to have that opportunity,

1:13:15

we had to create it ourselves. So there is

1:13:18

a thriving Native film

1:13:20

community and industry,

1:13:22

like we have so many different film festivals.

1:13:25

You know, like Sterlett har Jo, a lot of people

1:13:27

are just now hearing about him for Reservation

1:13:30

Dogs, but he has an incredible

1:13:32

body of work behind him, like award

1:13:34

winning movies and

1:13:36

shows that he's worked on, that he's written

1:13:39

for, and he's really well known.

1:13:41

A lot of the talent that you see in the show

1:13:43

for for everybody else, you know, their newcomers.

1:13:46

But for us, like they're some

1:13:48

of them are legendary, you

1:13:51

know, and so like there's this two different

1:13:53

industries and they operate very differently

1:13:56

from each other. And you

1:13:58

know, like I think a lot of people who are

1:14:01

you know, who are very successful in our

1:14:03

native film industry, you know, they're

1:14:05

a little more easily able to adapt to

1:14:07

the Hollywood industry. Um.

1:14:10

But if you're a new, newcoming,

1:14:13

upcoming talent and you don't

1:14:15

have experience, like this is your first opportunity,

1:14:18

you know, it's it's going to be a cult not

1:14:20

only a culture shock, but just you

1:14:23

know, a huge risk to the

1:14:25

entire rest of your career like that to make

1:14:27

it or break it thing, because you're not getting a second

1:14:29

opportunity within the industry

1:14:32

once they think like, oh, well we gave

1:14:34

you your shot, you're not

1:14:36

really worth developing, and you

1:14:38

know, like they just spit people out. And

1:14:41

I think that's such a hard pill

1:14:44

to swallow because we have so many

1:14:46

talented Natives out here who have been

1:14:48

working in Hollywood for quite

1:14:51

a few years, decades even and

1:14:54

you know, they they're still not getting the opportunity

1:14:56

to to run their own shows even though

1:14:58

they've worked on you know, white rent shows,

1:15:01

white creative shows. Um, but they've

1:15:03

never been given the opportunity to really

1:15:05

push their own. It's and it's

1:15:07

really kind of heartbreaking too, you know, like I

1:15:10

I don't know if you've ever seen the show Young and Hungry.

1:15:13

Um, yes, I love that

1:15:16

show so much, And

1:15:19

just like I think it was last year I

1:15:21

learned that they had a Native writer and

1:15:23

you see his name on every single

1:15:25

episode, and I'm like, how did I miss that? I

1:15:28

would have loved that movie even or the

1:15:30

show even more if I had realized

1:15:33

put two to two. But you

1:15:35

know, like, and you see that now that I know

1:15:37

that, I watch and I'm like, oh, that's

1:15:39

a Native writer. Oh that's a Native person.

1:15:42

And I'm thinking, like, how is it that they've

1:15:44

worked on all these incredible shows yet

1:15:46

they have not been given the opportunity to

1:15:49

do their own. Yeah,

1:15:51

And it's just it's kind of frustrating.

1:15:53

But also I realized,

1:15:55

like, you know, I understand,

1:15:57

like colonization has done such a really

1:16:00

good job at making Native people invisible

1:16:03

on our own homelands. So it's

1:16:05

a different type of struggle because if

1:16:08

you look at the Canadian film industry too,

1:16:10

it's very different from our own. Um,

1:16:13

it's nothing for Native people in

1:16:15

Canada to be able to be cast on

1:16:17

a show. And while

1:16:19

they are native, it's not what

1:16:22

revolve like their character doesn't revolve

1:16:24

around them being native. They just happened to be

1:16:27

a doctor who happens to be Native.

1:16:29

Like it's very normalized. Um,

1:16:31

But here in the US were always mothered and

1:16:33

we're always you know, kind of portrayed

1:16:36

very differently or they have to rely

1:16:38

on these stereotypical tropes in order

1:16:40

for them to have a native character. And

1:16:42

so it's like our progress

1:16:44

is very different and

1:16:47

we're finally starting to catch up

1:16:49

a little, but we're still so

1:16:51

far behind. And it's just it's

1:16:54

it's kind of like how

1:16:56

how how do we foster a

1:16:59

better environment for that? You know? Yeah,

1:17:01

I think part of it too is that, like

1:17:04

you mentioned, um, Hollywood is

1:17:06

is seeing indigenous stories is like,

1:17:08

oh, they're so hot right now, you know, And and

1:17:10

if it's hot, it's going to be profitable.

1:17:13

And Hollywood is also very averse

1:17:15

to risk for profit

1:17:18

reasons. And I feel like a

1:17:20

lot of Hollywood executives still see,

1:17:23

for example, allowing an indigenous

1:17:25

filmmaker to tell their own story as

1:17:28

a risk. They view that as something that's

1:17:30

christy because they don't think it would be relatable

1:17:33

enough to a widespread audience. And they

1:17:35

want a widespread audience because that will

1:17:37

make them more money. So yeah,

1:17:39

and and and you know, it's kind of hard to

1:17:41

find a balance with that too, because it's

1:17:44

like, come on, you

1:17:46

guys, Like how many millions

1:17:48

of dollars did you guys give to Tom

1:17:50

Cruise for the Mummy? You

1:17:52

know, oh my gosh,

1:17:54

come on, right, And

1:17:57

even like the concept of risk averse

1:17:59

as defined by a lot of executives,

1:18:01

it's just like absolute horseshit,

1:18:04

because like, how is it more aversive

1:18:07

risk to have like a mediocre

1:18:10

like guy director like in

1:18:12

a story that he like, it's

1:18:15

like not a good match in an he went

1:18:17

like it just it bothers me so much. When it's

1:18:19

like, well this is less of a risk, You're like, this guy sucks

1:18:22

like his track, look at his like a heavy page.

1:18:24

He's not good, like, but

1:18:27

he gets opportunity after opportunity

1:18:29

after opportunity, And I'm just like, what

1:18:31

the heck? But

1:18:34

you know it's I mean, we've made progress,

1:18:36

and I feel like, you know, we kind of have to acknowledge

1:18:39

that progress too and kind of celebrate it

1:18:42

because I think we also know

1:18:44

that when you have a male

1:18:46

dominated industry, it

1:18:49

really runs on ego. So

1:18:52

I feel like we kind of have to celebrate

1:18:54

the winds because it's an ego thing

1:18:56

for them. If they're like, oh, look, we got accolades

1:18:59

for this. You know, I did the bare minimum

1:19:01

and they're giving me cookies, then

1:19:03

they're more likely to keep

1:19:05

doing it. So

1:19:08

so I try and I try to be very careful

1:19:10

about this too, because I used

1:19:12

to go really hardcore with my criticism,

1:19:15

not really thinking about the larger impact

1:19:18

because I'm just like, well, you

1:19:20

know, I'm not an industry

1:19:23

like, I'm not like known in

1:19:25

their industry or whatever. But I

1:19:27

kind of got an eye opening experience

1:19:30

back when, um, when

1:19:32

they were doing Pan and

1:19:35

you know, they cast Rooney Mara as Tiger

1:19:38

Lily, and a course, is that backlash? And

1:19:41

you know, I had created the hashtag not

1:19:43

your Tiger Lily to kind

1:19:45

of discuss the whitewashing that happens

1:19:47

in Hollywood, but also,

1:19:50

you know, to kind of discuss the problematic

1:19:52

nature of Tiger Lily and

1:19:55

how you know she's this just a

1:19:57

victim and then of course you

1:20:00

they constantly are doing this problematic

1:20:02

character and they keep

1:20:04

doing Peter Pan and it's a problematic

1:20:07

story anyway, but you

1:20:09

know, it has very racist origins

1:20:11

towards Indigenous people, like even in the

1:20:13

book, and it hasn't gotten better

1:20:16

in the depictions that we see on screen.

1:20:19

The only difference is now that they're casting

1:20:21

Native people as Tiger Lily

1:20:23

as kind of like an appeasement,

1:20:25

but they're not making the story or her character

1:20:27

any better. Yeah,

1:20:30

So you know, like I kind of wanted to

1:20:32

bring attention to that. And one

1:20:35

of the things that I found so hilarious

1:20:37

about that was I realized that studios

1:20:40

use our criticism

1:20:43

as Native people as an

1:20:45

excuse to not fund Native

1:20:47

creative projects if they

1:20:49

think that, oh, there's a potential for backlash

1:20:52

here. Um. And I got that eye

1:20:54

opening experience because I

1:20:57

had noticed on my Twitter, like you know, it

1:20:59

was already like months after

1:21:02

um the casting had been announced, and actually

1:21:05

I think it was like right before the release of the movie.

1:21:07

I noticed that there were all these reporters

1:21:09

starting to follow me out of l

1:21:12

A. And I was living in Oklahoma at

1:21:14

the time, so that was really weird to me. And

1:21:16

I was like, what the heck is going on? And

1:21:19

finally I got a message on

1:21:21

my Twitter asking, you know, to call this

1:21:24

reporter. She's like, I really like to talk to you,

1:21:26

and I was like okay, So like I called

1:21:28

because I was like curious about why these reporters

1:21:30

were following me all of a sudden, and

1:21:33

the studio had I

1:21:35

don't know if it was a press release or

1:21:38

in some interview that they had done or

1:21:41

some conversation somewhere, they

1:21:43

had mentioned a potential for

1:21:46

that I was organizing a protest

1:21:48

for the premiere, and

1:21:51

so they were anticipating Natives

1:21:53

to show up in protest at the premiere

1:21:55

and I'm like what. I

1:21:57

was like, I'm not even in l A, like I've been Homa.

1:22:01

And they were like, well, you know, we were

1:22:03

told that you're organizing this protest

1:22:05

and I was like no. I

1:22:07

was like, why would

1:22:10

I kind of bring more attention to a film

1:22:12

I'm trying to not bring attention

1:22:14

to or to avoid, like because

1:22:16

you know, Hollywood kind of operates on this any

1:22:19

publicity is good publicity kind of thing. And

1:22:22

it was really weird because she was just like, well,

1:22:25

you know, we heard this um

1:22:27

and she's like, you know, so we really want to learn

1:22:29

more about this protest and why you don't think

1:22:31

this film. And I was just like, this is weird. And

1:22:34

um I was asking somebody else and they

1:22:36

were like, well yeah. She was

1:22:39

like, this is kind of like how they generate

1:22:41

buzz for their film. You know, if they can

1:22:43

find any anything that

1:22:45

could pique interest in the movie,

1:22:47

like, they're going to use it. And I was like, well, that's

1:22:49

really weird. I said, because I'm in Oklahoma,

1:22:52

you think they would have done their homework first to

1:22:54

make sure it was feasible. And she's

1:22:56

like, oh, she's like no. She was just

1:22:58

like, it's it's just what they do. And um,

1:23:02

you know, like and I started asking her because she's worked

1:23:04

in Hollywood for quite a while, and

1:23:06

I started asking her questions, and

1:23:09

you know, she was like, well, you know, anytime

1:23:12

that they see bad press coming

1:23:14

out of out of like in in country,

1:23:17

you know, they kind of use that as an excuse to

1:23:19

pull funding or to not fund projects,

1:23:22

to not give people the opportunity because

1:23:25

they don't want that drama.

1:23:27

Um. She's like, they don't want to be affiliated

1:23:29

with that bad press. And so I

1:23:32

it really made me think like, Oh,

1:23:34

I was like, because you know, you want people to

1:23:36

see your conversation. She want people to

1:23:39

talk about these issues, but you also

1:23:41

don't want it to hurt the people who are working in

1:23:43

that industry. Um.

1:23:45

And I realized like, oh, like, we kind

1:23:47

of have to tread a lot careful, a

1:23:49

lot more carefully than other people

1:23:52

when we criticize like the

1:23:54

like when we criticize Hollywood, and it's

1:23:56

it's not fair, it's not right. But

1:24:00

you know, it's also good to be aware of

1:24:02

that because you know, it's

1:24:04

made me really think about

1:24:06

the way that I criticized

1:24:09

films or the way that I bring about issues

1:24:12

or the way that I talked about them, um,

1:24:15

because I also don't want to vilify

1:24:17

the Native people who are in those films,

1:24:20

and that's something that happens quite a

1:24:22

bit um. And we saw that with Ridiculous

1:24:24

Six, where you know, they did have Native

1:24:27

actors who did walk off the set because

1:24:30

of the racist stereotypes that Adam Sandler was

1:24:32

using. And you know, he had said

1:24:35

like, oh, well, it's satire, but

1:24:37

you know, for for Native people, like

1:24:39

there's a difference between satire and racism,

1:24:43

and it's a thin line, right, and it's

1:24:45

not for Adam Sandler to decide what

1:24:47

works, decide what exactly.

1:24:50

So you know, while there were a lot

1:24:52

of Natives who walked off the set, there were

1:24:54

a lot of Natives who stayed. And you know, we're

1:24:56

in the film and there

1:24:58

was a lot of vilific Asian that happened,

1:25:01

like oh well they're sellouts there this, and

1:25:03

it's like no, their Native people trying

1:25:05

to work in an industry that is very

1:25:08

violent towards Indigenous people, um

1:25:10

still, and they

1:25:13

also have families to feed. It's a

1:25:15

very hard balance to to kind of walk because

1:25:18

you know, I think that you kind of

1:25:20

do have to draw a line, but that line

1:25:22

is going to be different for everybody else. You know, like

1:25:25

Indian countries not a monolith. So

1:25:28

you know, while one Native could be totally

1:25:30

okay with how they were doing ridiculous

1:25:32

six you know, they were Natives who worked, and

1:25:35

it didn't mean that either one was wrong

1:25:38

or invalid. It just means that they had very

1:25:40

two different perspectives and also

1:25:42

motivations, which for a lot of people,

1:25:45

that motivation is to work and to

1:25:47

be able to feed and take care of their families.

1:25:50

And so you don't want to fault them for that,

1:25:52

you know, especially like in our

1:25:54

hard economic times. Because

1:25:56

when I was asked to do the press

1:25:59

for for Prey, like to cover

1:26:01

it, I was really worried about

1:26:04

having that access because I

1:26:06

didn't want to like, I'm

1:26:09

blunt, I'm honest about what

1:26:11

I think. And I was like, oh

1:26:13

no, I was like, I don't want to

1:26:16

to kind of like burn down this bridge

1:26:18

of communication between me and the studio

1:26:21

and being able to potentially cover other movies

1:26:24

and other productions. UM, But I

1:26:26

also want to be honest and fair about what I

1:26:28

think about this, And given

1:26:30

that I was already hesitant about this movie

1:26:32

anyway, like I was like trying

1:26:35

to make sure like I was going to be able to be fair

1:26:37

and to be still be honest,

1:26:40

and thankfully it kind of worked

1:26:42

out. But you

1:26:44

know, like I also know that I'm not

1:26:47

the only native with an opinion, and

1:26:49

you know, there's it kind of a

1:26:51

balance, and I think we've all learned to kind of

1:26:53

tread that balance to to kind of be fair

1:26:56

but tough um in our assessment

1:26:58

of this of these media productions,

1:27:01

because we understand what's at stake, and

1:27:04

we also you know, kind of understand

1:27:06

now that it has a larger impact outside

1:27:08

of you know, our own Native publications

1:27:11

that we realize, like, oh, studios are

1:27:13

watching what we're saying. They're watching,

1:27:16

you know, how we respond to these productions,

1:27:18

and that they're using that as a basis

1:27:21

of how they decide who gets

1:27:24

funded, who doesn't, who gets to be involved,

1:27:26

and who doesn't. And you know, it's

1:27:29

it's trying to be mindful of that too,

1:27:31

because I mean, when

1:27:33

I mean, I was just a Native in Oklahoma. I

1:27:36

live here in l A now, but at the time, you

1:27:38

know, I didn't have a large following,

1:27:40

I didn't have the platforms that I have

1:27:42

now, and I thought it was really weird

1:27:45

that they were using that as an excuse,

1:27:48

you know, to say, oh,

1:27:50

well, you know, this kind of proves that

1:27:52

Native productions are risky, Like we're

1:27:54

going to face backlash for them, so

1:27:57

to avoid it, we're just going to leave

1:27:59

them out of it altogether. Which is

1:28:01

another reason that they largely

1:28:03

cast a lot of non natives in native

1:28:06

roles, because non natives don't

1:28:08

have the understanding

1:28:10

to realize like that portrayal is wrong

1:28:13

or that this is this is a stereotypical trope,

1:28:16

and they have no other knowledge outside

1:28:18

of their relationship or experience

1:28:20

with those mascots and stereotypes

1:28:23

to know any different. So they will cast

1:28:25

non natives knowing that they're

1:28:27

not going to have a problem or having to be

1:28:29

held accountable about how

1:28:32

those characters are being portrayed, whereas

1:28:34

if it was a native character, you know, it's

1:28:36

a little bit different. You know. Even Amber min

1:28:38

Thunder has talked quite a bit about that about

1:28:40

how, you know, she's very fortunate

1:28:42

to have kind of come into the industry

1:28:45

when she did, when she has a little power to have

1:28:47

some say over how the character

1:28:50

is portrayed and how you know, they're

1:28:52

telling these stories. It

1:28:54

sounds like her parents did not have that luxury

1:28:57

when they were were still are

1:29:00

working in Hollywood. That is I

1:29:02

thank you for sharing that

1:29:05

experience. It I just like it's

1:29:07

so frustrating, to frustrating,

1:29:10

so indicative of like the

1:29:12

very toxic nature of Hollywood to to

1:29:15

receive criticism and rather than like very

1:29:17

valid criticism and rather than listen to

1:29:19

it and like course correct,

1:29:22

they're like, well, we're just going to use this as an excuse

1:29:24

to um not you know, make

1:29:26

native projects or cast native actors.

1:29:29

You know, And on top of that it's unfair to

1:29:31

ask you to change how you do

1:29:34

your job in order to appease

1:29:36

Like it's just it's just bullshit

1:29:38

top to bottom. Yeah, And you could

1:29:40

easily say, like, well,

1:29:43

I'm not going to because

1:29:45

we have our own native film industry.

1:29:47

But also you know, like I don't

1:29:50

want to, you know, like I don't

1:29:52

think that any Native person,

1:29:54

you know, should be held to just

1:29:57

being able to thrive in Indian country,

1:29:59

like we to be able to thrive anywhere, you

1:30:02

know, in whatever industry it is we want to

1:30:04

work in, whether it's in the film industry

1:30:06

in Hollywood or it's in tech or

1:30:09

whatever it is. You know, we should

1:30:11

have the opportunity to to explore

1:30:13

those possibilities for ourselves and

1:30:17

you know, and not be held back or have it

1:30:19

be in spite of our nativeness. Because

1:30:21

that's so much of our experience

1:30:23

as indigenous people too, is that like

1:30:26

our success is seen as

1:30:29

being in spite of us being native,

1:30:32

rather than you know, it's just a native

1:30:34

person being successful. It always has to

1:30:36

be in spite of us being native, Like

1:30:39

because all of the issues that we face as indigenous

1:30:41

people have become synonymous with our

1:30:43

identities, which doesn't

1:30:46

happen to anybody else, even though those

1:30:48

same issues affect everybody

1:30:50

else as well. But just because

1:30:52

of the stereotypes and how prevalent

1:30:55

they are and how little interaction

1:30:57

you know, mainstream America has with Indian

1:31:00

inn as communities. I mean, there are

1:31:02

still people who think that we've been wiped out

1:31:04

completely, or who think we all still

1:31:06

live in tps. You

1:31:09

know, so because of that lack

1:31:11

of interaction, like they just honestly don't

1:31:13

know any better. And that makes

1:31:15

it really hard to try and navigate

1:31:18

those spaces too, because you know, there are

1:31:20

some people who are just truly ignorant. But

1:31:22

at the same time, you know, we also have

1:31:24

to acknowledge that racism is institutionalized

1:31:27

and normalized when it comes to Native

1:31:30

people, that oftentimes it's not recognized

1:31:33

until it's called out, and then when

1:31:35

it's called out, you know, people go on the defense

1:31:37

because that's the way it's always been and

1:31:41

and it's never been a problem before, you

1:31:43

know. So you know, it's such

1:31:45

a hard balance to try and navigate,

1:31:48

you know, for for Native people just

1:31:50

existing in this country. Oh

1:31:53

infuriating, I'm I

1:31:56

mean, I'm looking forward to

1:31:58

Native directors getting some blank

1:32:01

fucking checks to make their own movies.

1:32:03

And because we we've had conversations

1:32:06

like this in the past on the show where

1:32:09

even when a marginalized filmmaker

1:32:12

or writer is given an opportunity to

1:32:14

make and make something, speaking

1:32:16

to what you're just saying, Johnny, it's like, well,

1:32:19

in order to make your project,

1:32:22

you have to do it in a very particular

1:32:24

way or like exploit your own

1:32:26

trauma, or like we're only interested

1:32:28

in work from you if it is about a

1:32:31

very, very very specific topic.

1:32:34

When it's like that, again, it's just like not

1:32:36

an impediment that most

1:32:39

white filmmakers ever encounter. Yeah,

1:32:41

and you know, and I'm glad that Amber mid

1:32:44

Thunder came from the family that she did too,

1:32:46

because you know, I think they really

1:32:48

prepared her for that and also made

1:32:50

her a little more audacious in the

1:32:52

way that she was expected, like

1:32:55

in the expectations that she had for how

1:32:57

she was going to interact with Hollywood, because

1:33:00

is Amber is one of the

1:33:02

few native actresses

1:33:04

that has been able to cross over um

1:33:07

into more mainstream Hollywood with like

1:33:10

Roswell. I mean, she's she has so

1:33:12

many credits to her name, and it's

1:33:14

kind of amazing to see because she's not

1:33:16

necessarily native in

1:33:18

those productions. You know,

1:33:20

she doesn't. It's she's hasn't really been pigeonholed

1:33:23

as just a Native actress. And

1:33:25

you know it, it's kind of like it's

1:33:28

it's kind of funny too, because I was just thinking

1:33:30

about the name of your podcast because

1:33:33

in Indian Country, and I know, I'm

1:33:35

good, probably going to butcher this name of this, but we

1:33:37

have the Um it's either the

1:33:39

Ala Test or the Okay,

1:33:41

So we will talk about this when we Yeah,

1:33:44

so it's been renamed to the Test

1:33:47

and we will. Ali's been on the show many times,

1:33:49

the friend of the cast. Yeah, so

1:33:52

since it's come up, the criteria

1:33:54

to pass the Ali Naughty Test

1:33:56

are that the

1:33:59

character is an Indigenous or

1:34:01

Aboriginal woman who is a main character,

1:34:04

who does not fall in love with a

1:34:06

white man, and who does not end up

1:34:08

raped or murdered at any point in the story.

1:34:10

Obviously, Pray passes

1:34:13

the test very handily. So shout

1:34:15

out to Ali Naughty, the Ali

1:34:17

Naughty Test, and um,

1:34:20

yeah, something that just like helps spark

1:34:22

conversation about Indigenous representation

1:34:24

in media. Yeah, And it's incredible

1:34:27

because you know, and I bring that up because Amber

1:34:30

mid Thunder is one of the very few

1:34:32

actresses that has pretty

1:34:35

much been able to pass then

1:34:39

in almost every production. And I think

1:34:41

that kind of goes to speak to you

1:34:43

know how. You know, her family came

1:34:46

from this industry, so they were able to prepare

1:34:48

her and she was able to have make

1:34:50

sure that her own voice was heard, that

1:34:52

she wasn't just um, that she

1:34:54

understood she had power in this industry

1:34:57

and she used it. So you know, it's

1:34:59

really rare that we have Native actresses

1:35:01

who have that opportunity, and

1:35:03

it's incredible that, you know, Amber mid Thunder

1:35:06

has the career that she has, and you

1:35:08

know, especially in this role, you know, she was so

1:35:10

worried about getting it right. Now.

1:35:12

You know, Native girls have a

1:35:15

badass Native warrior to look

1:35:17

up to, you know, and that's incredible

1:35:20

because you know, again, you know, while there were like

1:35:22

scenes of violence against her um

1:35:25

for misogynistic reasons, you know it,

1:35:28

she didn't end up murdered, she didn't

1:35:30

end up rate and that was an

1:35:32

incredible feat for Hollywood.

1:35:37

Load the bar is oh

1:35:39

my god, yeah,

1:35:41

and it's it's really hard to um.

1:35:43

So I don't know if you guys have seen the

1:35:45

recent episode of reservation dogs

1:35:47

or if you're caught up on the series, but

1:35:50

I'm not. A lot of it is about,

1:35:52

like the show is kind of centered around, you

1:35:55

know, how suicide and Indian effects

1:35:58

Indian country. You know, like the first

1:36:00

season revolves around four friends

1:36:02

who are dealing with the suicide of

1:36:04

one of their closest friends, and the

1:36:06

second season kind of explores

1:36:09

the generational trauma that

1:36:11

kind of goes into that as well. And in this

1:36:14

last episode, we saw Big

1:36:16

who is the cop who

1:36:18

has a lot of guilt because

1:36:21

he thinks that he killed one of his friends,

1:36:24

that he wasn't able to save her, and he carries

1:36:26

a lot of guilt about that, and it

1:36:28

kind of carries over how you

1:36:31

know for this generation, Like for

1:36:33

these kids, you know, the trauma that they're

1:36:35

dealing with is the suicide of you

1:36:37

know, their their best friend, their cousin,

1:36:40

their brother. But you know,

1:36:42

the adults in their lives, their parents,

1:36:44

Um and the people in the community. You

1:36:47

know, that trauma came from the death

1:36:49

of this character Cookie, who

1:36:51

is Um who plays DeVries

1:36:54

Monk's character, I guess, but this was the

1:36:56

first time that they showed that character in

1:36:58

this episode, and it was such a beautiful

1:37:01

UM, beautiful episode.

1:37:03

It was so beautifully done and

1:37:05

it was funny. I was really scared

1:37:08

it was going to be one of those tear drekers again, and I was

1:37:10

like, my emotions, can I handle this? But it was

1:37:12

really funny and it was really heartfelt

1:37:14

and it was emotional. But you

1:37:17

know, the the actors who they cast to play

1:37:19

Cookie Jenney ms

1:37:22

so incredible in this UM and

1:37:25

but you know, we want We went to a watch party

1:37:27

UM to watch this episode with her, and

1:37:30

you know, afterwards we were having the same

1:37:32

conversation about you

1:37:34

know, she's a Native actress and she was like,

1:37:36

you know, it's I'm I'm

1:37:38

typecast as the dead Native

1:37:41

girl. And she's like, no, no shade

1:37:43

too like reservation dogs or anything. She goes.

1:37:45

But that's just the reality she goes. Whenever

1:37:47

I go out for a part or audition, it's

1:37:50

always for the dead Native girl.

1:37:53

Um, she goes. It's just how

1:37:56

they typecast her. She's

1:37:58

like, you know, and she's she's actually going to be

1:38:00

in UM Flowers Are the

1:38:02

Killer Moon, so you

1:38:04

know she's going to be one of the sisters in that, and

1:38:06

you know it's a big role for her. And again you

1:38:08

know, it's like she was saying, typecast

1:38:11

as the dead Native girl, like I don't get to live

1:38:13

in the comes that I'm in. Um.

1:38:16

But you know, she's such an incredible actress.

1:38:19

But you know, like these conversations

1:38:21

like I feel like need to be had about

1:38:23

the opportunities that are given to Native women

1:38:26

because in almost any show that we

1:38:28

where it is about Native women, that

1:38:31

woman is always going to be right, She's always

1:38:33

going to be murdered. Um. There's always going to be

1:38:35

an incredible amount of violence enacted

1:38:38

against her. And it's such a shame

1:38:40

because you know that shouldn't be normalized,

1:38:43

and it always is like it's and it's

1:38:46

never shown as in

1:38:48

a way where it's like raising

1:38:50

awareness. It's always exploitative. Even

1:38:53

Wind River, a lot of people, you know, really

1:38:55

use that show and they're like, it's the first show

1:38:58

to really talk about the murder to missing an Diigenous

1:39:00

women. And I'm like, but it's

1:39:02

so exploitative and it kind of

1:39:04

centers on that white saviorship and

1:39:07

it doesn't talk about how that violence

1:39:09

is wrong or

1:39:12

you know that it needs to change. It just kind of plays

1:39:14

into why it keeps happening. Yeah,

1:39:17

And so there's a lot of hard conversations

1:39:20

that still need to be had. But you

1:39:22

know, thankfully we have actresses

1:39:24

like Amberment Thunder. There's also Crystal

1:39:26

Lightning, who you know, has won

1:39:28

awards for her role in Trickster, which

1:39:32

was an incredible series as well. Um,

1:39:34

but the opportunities that

1:39:37

they're given to be just anything more

1:39:39

than you know, these stereotypical tropes.

1:39:42

You know that, oh, the other trope

1:39:44

is also the drunk woman or

1:39:49

the drunk Indian woman, um

1:39:51

and the dead Native woman. Like those are the two

1:39:53

roles that Native women get in Hollywood

1:39:56

usually, and it's such a shame

1:39:58

because Native women are so strong,

1:40:02

they're so fierce. Um. Even

1:40:04

now, when you look at the different issues that affect

1:40:06

in a country, it's always Native

1:40:09

women right there on the front lines before

1:40:11

anybody else. And you

1:40:13

know, for us to just constantly be shown

1:40:15

in this state of victimhood, you

1:40:18

know, is just unacceptable in this day

1:40:20

and age. And

1:40:22

I do feel, yeah, like I'm

1:40:25

so thrilled that ever mid Thunder

1:40:27

is so successful and has you know,

1:40:29

the institutional knowledge passed on from

1:40:32

her parents. And also it's like the

1:40:34

fact that she is such a large seems

1:40:37

like such a large exception to this is like so discouraging.

1:40:39

I really, I really loved

1:40:42

that she seems determined to

1:40:45

continue pushing the industry

1:40:47

and using the power and knowledge she does have.

1:40:50

And also, like speaking

1:40:52

to what we were discussing a little earlier,

1:40:54

the enormous pressure that that puts

1:40:57

on her, that is like not a

1:40:59

fair press to put on anyone,

1:41:01

much as a young person. Yeah,

1:41:05

and it's I mean it's incredible because

1:41:07

I mean, with Prey, she could

1:41:10

easily just wrote this success out and

1:41:12

not addressed any of these issues and just

1:41:15

been like it was a great experience, it was good.

1:41:17

You know, everything's awesome. You

1:41:19

know, I'm so happy to be here. But the fact that she's

1:41:21

taken the risk to acknowledge

1:41:25

how hard it is to be in the industry

1:41:27

and the realities of being in the industry,

1:41:29

you know, makes her incredible in

1:41:31

my eyes, even more so because she is young

1:41:35

and she is using her platform. You know. It kind

1:41:37

of reminds me of when Ashley calling bull

1:41:40

one Mrs World, you know, and she told them,

1:41:43

what did you think when she started getting backlash

1:41:45

about speaking about native issues? He's like, did

1:41:48

you think I was just going to take this crown and stand

1:41:50

here and be pretty. She's like, no, I'm

1:41:52

gonna use this platform for

1:41:55

the betterment of my people. And you know, and

1:41:57

I feel like that's kind of like the role

1:41:59

that so many you know, Native entertainers

1:42:01

and Native talent they kind of get

1:42:03

cast into that, and I'm really

1:42:05

looking forward to the day when they get

1:42:07

to just be actors, when they get to just be

1:42:10

writers and not have to be advocates

1:42:12

as well. Yeah, um,

1:42:16

is there anything else that we'd like

1:42:18

to touch on about about the movie, about

1:42:20

behind the scenes about I

1:42:22

have one really quick thing, which

1:42:25

is that on IMDb, the

1:42:28

French trappers, who are

1:42:30

the only white characters you see on screen,

1:42:33

are credited like their character's names are

1:42:35

things like big Beard and

1:42:38

waxed mustache, the

1:42:41

way that indigenous people in

1:42:44

movies have been credited as

1:42:46

things like Indian right,

1:42:49

Indian man. You know. So

1:42:52

just that like the white people are big beard

1:42:54

and waxed Mustache. I

1:42:57

enjoyed that very much. That, Yeah,

1:42:59

And it kind of goes back to showing just how

1:43:01

intentional they were with this film. The

1:43:03

fact that even in the movie, the

1:43:06

French traders were never translated.

1:43:09

We have no idea unless she speaks what

1:43:11

they were saying, that yeah,

1:43:12

there's no subtitles

1:43:14

for it because it's just like, well, who gives it you?

1:43:17

And that yeah, that does feel reflective of how

1:43:19

Native people have been portrayed in

1:43:21

the past, like it's yeah,

1:43:23

and further demonstrates that the movie

1:43:25

is told from an indigenous perspective because

1:43:28