0:00

You're listening to a frequency podcast

0:02

network production. A

0:05

quick warning before we begin. This

0:08

episode contains descriptions of

0:10

domestic violence and murder. You

0:16

probably know this story as

0:18

the case that involves the

0:20

Winnipeg landfill. That

0:23

is the part that made

0:26

national headlines, sparked protests and

0:28

blockades and might

0:30

even have decided an election. But

0:34

at the heart of this case are

0:36

the women, four of them all

0:39

allegedly murdered by the same man, a

0:42

man who goes to trial this month

0:45

in Manitoba. As

0:48

that trial looms, a

0:50

number of questions remain. How

0:53

did the alleged killer find his victims?

0:57

Why, considering his history

0:59

of violence, was

1:01

he free to find them in the first place?

1:06

And after a winning campaign that

1:08

was based in part on

1:10

a promise to search the landfill for

1:12

the remains of the victims, why

1:16

hasn't that search begun? How

1:19

did this happen? How easily

1:22

could it have been prevented? I'm

1:28

Jordan Heath-Rawlings. This is The

1:30

Big Story. Rachel

1:32

Brown is an investigative

1:34

journalist as well as a documentary

1:37

producer. She investigated this story in

1:39

McLean's magazine. Hey, Rachel.

1:41

Hey, Jordan. I'm hoping maybe

1:44

we can start, as we

1:46

like to do in cases like this, with

1:49

a little bit about the victims. This

1:51

is a really tough case. It's really

1:53

impacted the community. Who were they?

1:56

So the victims in this case are

1:58

four Indigenous women. who were,

2:01

as far as we can tell,

2:03

living in the downtown Winnipeg area

2:05

before they went missing and

2:07

were eventually murdered. As far

2:09

as we know, these women were struggling with substance

2:12

use and mental health issues, and

2:14

they were using various shelters and

2:16

social services downtown as well. Most

2:19

of them have had experiences with

2:21

the child welfare system in Manitoba

2:24

growing up, or they were

2:26

struggling with having their own children taken

2:28

away from them by the province as

2:30

well. The women are

2:33

Rebecca Contwa, who was a 24-year-old mother

2:35

of one daughter, and she belonged to

2:38

Crane River First Nation. There's

2:40

Mercedes Myron, who was 26-year-old, a

2:42

mother of two children. And there

2:44

was Morgan Harris as well, who

2:46

was a 39-year-old mother of five

2:48

children. This includes Cambria Harris, who

2:50

has since become a very outspoken

2:53

advocate for her mother's case, and

2:55

those are the other women. And

2:57

the fourth woman is believed to

2:59

have been in her mid-20s when

3:01

she died, and her

3:03

identity is still unknown to this day,

3:05

and she's been given the honorary name

3:08

Buffalo Woman by the Indigenous community.

3:10

You mentioned these women were murdered.

3:12

There is a lot of unknowns

3:15

regarding this case, despite the fact

3:18

that it's just about

3:20

to go to trial. What do we know

3:22

for sure about what happened to them? Yeah,

3:25

there's a lot of details

3:27

around the intricacies of the

3:30

investigation, and the intricacies and

3:32

details that allegedly connect the

3:35

killer with these women in sort of the

3:37

final days of their life. Police have been

3:39

very tight-lipped about this. There's been some details

3:41

that have been released at court

3:43

over the past couple of months, but

3:46

those details are all under a publication

3:48

ban at the moment. But what we

3:50

do know is that these women

3:53

started to go missing in the winter and

3:55

the early months of 2022, and by mid-May to

4:00

is when the partial remains of

4:02

one of the women was found

4:04

in a dumpster near a man

4:07

named Jeremy Scabicki's apartment building.

4:10

And that search, that discovery,

4:13

eventually led police to charge

4:15

Scabicki with first-degree murder in the

4:18

death of Rebecca Contois, and many

4:20

months went by, and then

4:23

they eventually charged him with first-degree

4:25

murder in three more cases. You

4:27

mentioned those several months between when the

4:29

remains were found and when the charges

4:31

were laid. Can you walk us through

4:34

the circumstances around the search for these

4:36

women? Yeah. So, as

4:38

I mentioned, in mid-May is

4:40

when Jeremy Scabicki was formally

4:43

charged with first-degree murder in the

4:45

case of Rebecca Contois. And police

4:47

at the time, they were able to use

4:50

evidence that was found in

4:52

searching the garbage bins near his

4:54

apartment and other

4:56

evidence was able to help them

4:58

lay that first-degree murder charge. And

5:01

they also connected those remains to

5:03

the Brady landfill. They were able to find

5:05

more remains there that connected to Rebecca Contois.

5:08

I mean, it's very likely because the remains

5:10

were found in a dumpster that they said,

5:12

okay, we need to search the

5:14

landfill. And they did in that case. And

5:16

so over the next few

5:18

weeks into June is when that was

5:21

all confirmed. And again, at

5:23

this time, police had said that they believed

5:25

that there were more victims potentially, but they

5:27

just hadn't announced any

5:29

further charges or potential

5:32

missing or murdered women at that point. So

5:34

over the summer, this was unbeknownst

5:36

to the public at the time,

5:39

the police had suspected that the

5:41

remains of Mercedes Myron and Morgan

5:43

Harris were very likely in another

5:45

landfill outside of Winnipeg, the Prairie

5:47

Green landfill. Again, the

5:49

families, the public had no idea that this

5:51

was sort of a notion that was being

5:53

explored by the police. And It

5:56

wasn't until December of that year that police

5:58

announced the charges in the murders. Mercedes

6:01

Mirin. And Morgan Harris informing the

6:03

family and for me the public that

6:05

charges had Bin Laden their cases as

6:07

well as Buffalo women and and not.

6:09

As then the family started to call

6:11

for the search to be done. There

6:13

hadn't been another search for the remains

6:15

of those were men and so that's.

6:17

When the calls began for the police

6:20

to search the Prairie Green. Landfill.

6:23

Me talk in a moment about the

6:25

site over that search which really went

6:27

all the way to the top of

6:30

the ballot in a provincial election. He

6:32

adds a first you mentioned I, his

6:34

arrest and the suspicion that there are

6:36

more victims quickly. who is Jeremy Sky?

6:39

Bet you would we know about. Thought.

6:42

Jeremy the big key at the time

6:44

it's his arrest was thirty five years

6:46

olds. He had been renting the apartment

6:49

that I mentioned in the north till

6:51

down in neighborhoods about twenty minutes or

6:53

so a by bus from downtown when

6:55

a page and my reporting suggests that

6:58

he was born and raised in when

7:00

a page and after his arrest acquaintances

7:02

and people who kind of were in

7:05

his orbitz a little bit in in

7:07

in the years and months before his

7:09

arrest suggested that seats with someone who

7:12

presented. As homeless someone who frequented

7:14

homeless shelters for meals and other

7:16

types of services people just kind

7:18

of assumed that he was on

7:20

housed and see was also known

7:22

to be kind of hanging around

7:24

these places and and would sometimes

7:26

offer women drugs and off that

7:28

I'm a warm place to sleep

7:30

or sour overnight and so he

7:32

could have had their reputations a

7:34

little bit. In the lead up

7:36

to his arrest, friends and former

7:38

girlfriend says his that I spoke

7:40

to described him as very religious.

7:42

Like devoutly. Christian very hard

7:44

core. Christian and he

7:46

also was apparently a self.

7:49

Described white supremacist as while he

7:51

espoused or white supremacists. ideology posting

7:53

about it on say spots or

7:56

any also posted quite a

7:58

bit about denying things of

8:00

residential schools and denying the existence

8:02

of the mass graves that had

8:05

recently been discovered around some of

8:07

these residential schools as well. This

8:10

could take a long time, I know,

8:12

because you've done such a thorough job

8:14

here. But as we're talking

8:16

about him, could you maybe sum

8:19

up, I guess, some of his

8:21

past experiences with women and the

8:23

justice system to give us a

8:25

sense, I guess, of just how

8:27

many times that ended

8:30

up happening might have been prevented?

8:32

Yeah, court records and people

8:34

I spoke to who had violent

8:37

encounters with Skibicki suggest

8:39

that there were many opportunities for

8:41

Skibicki to be held accountable

8:44

for his increasingly violent

8:46

behavior, especially towards women over the

8:48

years. But even before he

8:50

started entering the criminal justice system for acts

8:52

of violence, there are high school classmates of

8:55

his who spoke to the Winnipeg Free Press

8:57

who said that he exhibited

8:59

aggressive and violent tendencies towards women

9:01

even then one woman says that

9:04

he threw her across the room during a

9:06

gathering at one of the students house one

9:08

day. And then he kind of

9:11

went on to be charged with things like forgery,

9:13

nonviolent crimes starting around 2008. And

9:16

by his mid 20s is when

9:18

he starts to enter the criminal

9:20

justice system facing accusations and eventually

9:23

convictions of violent behavior towards women.

9:25

There was a fiance of his that he

9:27

was living with in 2015 who accused him

9:29

of being very physically

9:32

violent with her threatening her life. She

9:34

was pregnant. So he was threatening her

9:36

life as well as the life of

9:39

her unborn child at the time. And

9:41

he ended up being charged with assault

9:43

in her case and was sentenced to two years

9:45

of probation. They ended up, you

9:48

know, kind of getting back together or

9:50

living together again and the abuse continued

9:52

and she applied for a court ordered

9:54

protection order, kind of like a restraining

9:56

order against Him And that was denied. You

10:00

know, one of the major instances we

10:03

see where these women's try to stop

10:05

him and his truck stop the violence

10:07

as it continues to escalate and he's

10:09

in that case is pretty much left

10:11

off the hook. and in years after

10:14

that he. Was dating another one and

10:16

someone he met at the Solo Mission

10:18

a shelter and downtown Winnipeg. They

10:20

got married quite quickly. And their

10:23

relationship quickly turned violence. physically, violent,

10:25

sexual violence. And like the woman

10:27

a few years before, this woman

10:29

who is now his wife also

10:32

sought. A protection order and also

10:34

sought criminal charges against him as

10:36

well. Those criminal charges ended up

10:38

being stayed. Pieces of issues associated

10:41

with this woman's memory loss: Whitworth.

10:43

Ironically exacerbated, she says due to

10:46

the physical violence as he perpetrated

10:48

against her and then the. The

10:50

protection order that she thought was put

10:52

in place bets. None of these things

10:54

were and thus to really stops could

10:57

be key to this woman in this

10:59

case even said she warns the court

11:01

if he has not stopped he's going

11:03

to go on to to kill someone.

11:05

Would. You please say or what have they said.

11:08

About. When this

11:11

behavior move sam violence

11:13

and aggression and drugs

11:15

to. Murder. What?

11:17

We do know is just

11:20

based on the timeline that

11:22

is Public's for years Skippy

11:24

was excused. Or. Convicted of

11:26

acts of violence against women with

11:28

whom he was in relationships and

11:30

so we know from his mid

11:33

twenties onward as when. When she

11:35

started to become very sickly, violent and

11:37

aggressive towards women and and then he

11:39

ends up being charged with with murder

11:42

and may have to me to need.

11:44

Just a few months after he was

11:46

acquitted of those are those assault charges

11:49

that his as dumber Weiss tried to

11:51

pursue again stamps. And police have said that

11:53

they believe. The first what men that

11:55

he allegedly killed was. Killed

11:57

in March and twenty twenty two. What

12:04

do we know and I know that there

12:07

details the you'll say we expect to hear

12:09

a trial but what do we know about.

12:11

How. He met his

12:13

victims and how they're connected

12:15

to one another. Again, yeah,

12:18

like you said, we just don't

12:20

know too much about this and

12:22

is not a lot that can

12:24

be publicly said at this point.

12:26

But I think we can surmise

12:28

that because Scan was frequenting he's

12:30

homeless shelters and other social services

12:32

downtown. when a Page and these

12:34

women the victims. Also were known

12:36

to go to these. Social. Services

12:38

as well. I think we can

12:40

surmise that they perhaps met each

12:43

other in those settings. When I

12:45

spoke to Skip Keys ex wife

12:47

who he met at the salon,

12:49

Miss Sense seats on his believes

12:51

that. It's. In one of those

12:53

types of settings is where he would have

12:55

met these women. There was

12:57

a huge site. Even.

12:59

After the charges relate as you mentioned

13:02

over the search for remains at the

13:04

landfill, can you walk us through that?

13:06

I guess all the way to as

13:08

I mentioned, the provincial election and what

13:11

happened there. Yes, So with

13:13

the Lancer says. This became.

13:15

A really important issue

13:17

for the. Family. Members

13:20

of the Victims for Advocates As

13:22

well. Having these searches in order

13:24

to recover the remains of these

13:26

women is extremely important for their

13:28

closure is extremely important for for

13:30

their pursuit of justice for their

13:32

loved ones. And so, Astor's Kabuki

13:34

became an alleged serial killer when

13:37

he's charged with these multiple counts

13:39

of first degree murder and twenty

13:41

twenty two. And December starts

13:43

when. Cambria Harris and particular

13:45

the daughter of More Than Harris and

13:47

her family began to call for the

13:49

search to happen of the Prairie Greenland

13:52

Cell which hasn't happened because it's believe

13:54

that's where the remains of Mercedes. Mayor

13:56

and ends Cambria. His mother American Harris

13:58

as police and it's. In the

14:00

search because they say it's too

14:03

expensive, it's too difficult. and now

14:05

so much time has passed and

14:07

day by day. A. Perspective

14:09

search become so much more difficult.

14:12

And these these calls for

14:14

the search and for it's

14:16

of funding to support it

14:18

quickly became politicized. And the

14:20

refusal to search and the call

14:22

to search the landfills became an

14:25

election issue as he said and

14:27

Manitoba last Fall especially the incumbent

14:29

Premier Heather Stephenson, who is the

14:32

the leader that Progressive Conservatives was.

14:35

Vehemently opposed the landfill search, and

14:37

she made that a. Feature

14:39

of her campaign actually like if

14:41

you drove through when a page

14:44

you could see billboards bus stop.

14:46

Ads and signs that were paid

14:48

for by the Progressive conservatives Reading

14:50

things like quotes stand firm for

14:52

health and safety reasons. The answer

14:54

on the landfill. Searched as pass to

14:56

be. no. Says you think about

14:59

people like Cambria, Harris and the loved

15:01

ones of these victims to drive through

15:03

their hometown and see these types the

15:05

signs at it you know it relieves.

15:07

Must have just. Been extremely difficult and

15:09

disheartening to see. To

15:11

see your government put out that kind of

15:13

messaging as you're trying to fight for justice?

15:15

For your families and and Manitoba.

15:18

Overall at this time during the election were. Seemingly

15:21

split on the issue, but it was really

15:23

the Ndp led by Want Canoe who.

15:25

Vowed to search. The. Land so

15:27

if elected and and the Ndp ended up

15:29

winning who's a very big deal and so

15:32

that really makes the search that much more

15:34

likely. See another still is is to be

15:36

dealt with in terms of the cost in

15:38

the feasibility of the search again day by.

15:40

Day become that much more difficult. Spits Just

15:43

a couple of weeks ago, the province and

15:45

the Federal government have committed forty million dollars

15:47

to search it, so it seems likely, but

15:49

we just don't have a timeline or or

15:52

specific that when the search. Will. Happen.

15:55

The trial was about to start. When

15:57

exactly does it start and what does

15:59

it means? After the trial that

16:01

they are beginning it. With

16:03

this landfill search are still not completed

16:05

him without a lot of the remains

16:08

they're looking for. So. The

16:10

last I heard. the jury trial is supposed

16:12

to begin this month, so. April as twenty

16:14

twenty four I think. There's a sense that

16:16

it could be pushed back to the some pretrial

16:19

motions and things as still need to be dealt

16:21

with by it's it's supposed to happen very soon.

16:23

And like you said with the land still search.

16:25

Still to com. That may

16:28

presents some new pieces

16:30

of evidence, new avenues,

16:32

As it pertains to the trial both for the

16:34

defense and the. Prosecution by it. I

16:36

think what we know is that

16:38

the police had enough evidence to

16:40

lay the charges in the first

16:42

place. There are other types of

16:44

evidence that. Are likely at play

16:46

when it comes to the charges. That's

16:49

Debakey, who I should say has pleaded

16:51

not guilty to all the charges is

16:53

facing. You know, this isn't the first

16:56

case where there's. Been a lack of

16:58

physical evidence or remains when it comes

17:00

to the victims. and I think there's

17:02

other types of evidence potentially photo evidence,

17:05

video evidence? I'm I'm sort of speculating

17:07

here, but there's other types of evidence

17:09

that will likely be at play when

17:11

it comes to the charges. That

17:13

sets gimmicky is the thing. And

17:16

one thing I did, one a notice in

17:18

February actually was interesting, there was an online

17:21

survey and attack survey as well that. Released

17:23

in Manitoba My Legal Aid Manitoba which

17:25

has were skipping keys lawyers work. In

17:28

this might provide some potential insights.

17:30

For the defense, strategy is so.

17:33

The poll that was released asked

17:35

about three criminal defenses one

17:37

not criminally responsible due to. A

17:40

mental disorder Number Two, problematic Dna

17:42

evidence Number three. Self Defense or

17:44

the survey was asking people what

17:46

they thought about these three. Potential

17:48

criminals the senses in their view

17:50

of each one as it pertains

17:53

to a not guilty verdict for

17:55

skipping keys. So again, until the

17:57

trial begins, we won't know exactly.

18:00

How the defense. Is going to use or not

18:02

you certain types of evidence but I found that that. Survey.

18:04

That was released to be. Kind of interesting

18:07

and a little bit of a a look

18:09

at what perhaps make some about during the

18:11

trial. What are you hoping

18:13

we learn more about when this case

18:15

actually gets into a courtroom? What do

18:17

we not know yet? the we need

18:19

to. I. Think the public and

18:21

the family members of the victims

18:23

will be eager to know. What

18:27

happened? exactly? To

18:29

these women and how they may have

18:31

fallen through the cracks of the system

18:33

various systems over the years. Leading.

18:36

Up to their disappearance, And

18:38

their murders. I think and hope

18:41

that the trial signs late on

18:43

night. So. That. Families.

18:45

Can get. The answers that

18:47

they need and that there can be?

18:49

perhaps? Some. Critical examination

18:52

of. Of. What

18:54

went on at these systems? That

18:56

perhaps? Contributed to the vulnerability of these

18:58

women and that you know outside of

19:00

the trial, I know that the kids

19:03

and family members will continue to raise

19:05

awareness about the ongoing issue of missing

19:07

and murdered indigenous women and girls. Sandwich

19:09

continues to be a really serious issue,

19:12

not just the Winnipeg beds across Canada

19:14

as well. Ritual thank you for explaining

19:16

the start, walking us through it and

19:19

bring us up to date and or

19:21

thanks for all your pajamas case think

19:23

starting. Really appreciate it. Also

19:28

Blair ever miss story for

19:30

my clients. That

19:33

was the big story. For more from

19:35

us you can head to the big

19:37

story part as.cia If you or somebody

19:39

you know is at risk of domestic

19:42

violence you can side resources and safety

19:44

at shelter safe.c S. You

19:47

can get in touch with us to

19:49

offer feedback on this episode or any

19:51

other, by emailing us hello with the

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