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Network Production. Being.

0:42

The leader of the Ndp in

0:45

Alberta might be one of the

0:47

hardest jobs and politics. You have

0:49

to speak to progressives who live

0:52

in big cities, but you must

0:54

be able to compete with conservative

0:56

parties and sometimes there are more

0:58

than one for not just the

1:01

rural or the small town vote,

1:03

but for the votes of everyone

1:05

in the province who depends on

1:07

oil and gas for a living.

1:10

Which. Is how you get the

1:12

Ndp pushing for pipelines which in

1:15

turn doesn't sit well with the

1:17

Federal Ndp who you know wants

1:19

us to move away from fossil

1:21

fuels and that allows your opponents

1:24

to paint you with that brush

1:26

as well. Which means you need

1:28

to sound very different from say

1:31

jug meet Sing but also your

1:33

parties have the same names and

1:35

use the same colors and. Yeah.

1:39

So anyway, it's not a huge

1:42

surprise that Rachel not liquid. Nor.

1:45

Is it a huge surprise that whomever

1:47

takes the job next? We'll.

1:49

Have a tough job a winning

1:51

over voters while staying loyal to

1:54

the party and presenting a united

1:56

National front for the New Democratic

1:58

Party. Eggs. That's a

2:00

lot. What if the

2:03

new leader of the Alberta NDP was

2:05

a guy who hadn't previously

2:07

belonged to the party? Who

2:09

doesn't have any of those ties

2:12

to tradition, to a unified NDP,

2:14

or any alignment with the federal

2:16

party? What if the

2:19

new leader was just new?

2:28

I'm Jordan Heath-Raulings. This is The

2:31

Big Story. Graham Thompson

2:33

is a long-time analyst of Alberta

2:35

politics. He's appeared in the CBC,

2:37

the Star, the Ta'ih, and Alberta

2:40

Views magazine, among many others. Welcome,

2:42

Graham. Hello, Jordan. Why

2:45

don't you start maybe for our outside

2:47

of Alberta audience by giving us a

2:50

quick rundown of the last provincial

2:52

election in Alberta and what's happened

2:54

since then? I think most people

2:56

know the NDP lost, and then

2:59

what? Yeah, so what happened

3:01

is 2023, we thought might

3:03

have a relatively tight race for

3:05

Alberta politics. Like normally, we're

3:08

a one-party province. The Conservatives tend

3:10

to win the election. NDP

3:13

2015 won the election with a

3:15

two-party system. In

3:18

2019, the Conservatives, the UCP, had a Conservative

3:20

Party won again. But

3:22

it was really interesting. In 2023, we

3:24

thought the NDP might

3:26

come back under Rachel Nolley,

3:28

an NDP leader. She's a

3:30

very well-liked, seasoned politician, first-centered

3:32

politics in 2008. Her

3:35

father was the leader of the NDP back in the day.

3:38

This is like the loyalty when it

3:40

comes to NDP in Alberta. That's against

3:42

Danielle Smith, a really contentious, very controversial

3:44

leader who wasn't well-liked by a lot

3:46

of the public. And we thought, wow,

3:48

what's going to happen? Well, the UCP

3:50

won. But the thing is, they won,

3:53

but they lost a number of seats.

3:56

They went from 60 seats to 49. NDP

3:59

went from 2023. seats to 38 as

4:01

the largest opposition in Alberta history. So

4:03

even though the NDP lost 38 seats,

4:07

biggest opposition, UCP won,

4:09

but they lost a lot of

4:11

ground, especially in Calgary. So

4:13

that's what happened in the

4:15

election, but at that point,

4:17

the clock started ticking for Rachel

4:20

Notley as leader. She had won in 2015, but she lost in

4:22

2019, lost in 2023, and the clock

4:27

began ticking as a question of not

4:29

if she would step down, but when.

4:32

What did she say about herself and the

4:34

direction of the party when she did? You

4:37

know, you pointed out this was an NDP

4:39

that had made a relatively sizable comeback. It's

4:41

not like she had nothing to rely on,

4:43

but she walked away. Yeah, the

4:46

thing is, yeah, she stepped down in January

4:48

of this year. We knew it was coming

4:50

because look, she lost two elections in a

4:52

row. People like her, but the thing is,

4:54

the NDP knew itself. It did not defeat

4:57

Danielle Smith, such a kind of conscious, controversial

4:59

person and the NDP still couldn't

5:01

beat her. So everyone knew that writing was on the

5:03

wall and think there's no one who's trying to push

5:05

her out. People have so much respect for her in

5:08

the NDP. No one was trying to overtly

5:10

push out Notley, just giving her time. She

5:13

stepped down saying, look, we've done so much together and

5:15

the biggest opposition in Alberta history,

5:17

and it's time for her to step aside

5:20

and let a new generation, if they can

5:22

call it that, step up to the

5:24

plate. Who is that new generation? And

5:26

I mean, this is why we're talking to you today.

5:28

So far, who's running to replace her? And what does

5:30

the field look like just in general? Yeah, so right

5:32

now there's six people entering the race. I'll get to

5:34

the punch line in a second.

5:36

Six people. First up is Sarah Hoffman.

5:39

Sarah Hoffman is a powerhouse, a veteran

5:41

of Alberta politics based in Edmonton, and

5:43

Edmonton is NDP country. All 20 of

5:47

the provincial seats went to the NDP

5:49

last election. So that's where the power

5:51

is. Sarah Hoffman, former Minister of Health

5:54

under the Notley government, was seen as

5:56

a front runner. Kathleen Gannelly, another veteran,

5:58

former Minister of Health. Justice when

6:00

Nautilus Premier and Gammalie is from Calgary

6:03

and NDP's Rudy Keenan winning more seats than

6:05

Calgary. Last election they won 14 out of

6:07

26 seats. The

6:09

NDP got more seats than the United Conservative

6:12

Party in Calgary. We just see that some

6:14

more conservative city. Both two, by

6:16

the way, are both MLAs. Our third

6:18

MLA is Jodi Kalahou Stonehouse from Edmonton,

6:20

Rutherford. She's very new to politics and

6:22

elected last year. Then we

6:24

have Gil McGowan, Alberta

6:26

Federation of Labour president. Then

6:29

we had Raki Pancholy. I said we did

6:31

have a split in a second. So Raki

6:33

Pancholy, Rudy Dynamic lawyer

6:36

from Edmonton, MLA, and

6:38

she ran in the race and she seems a very

6:40

credible person. Then all of

6:42

a sudden in March things began to

6:45

change in this race that began February

6:47

the 5th. Within a

6:49

month someone entered the race who is

6:51

not a long time NDP member.

6:53

That's Nuhayad Nenshi. The head Nenshi

6:55

former mayor of Calgary enters the

6:58

race and turns everything upside down.

7:01

With days of him entering the race,

7:03

Pancholy, Raki Pancholy, a

7:06

young, dynamic, very credible

7:08

candidate says, I'm stepping

7:10

aside to throw my support

7:12

behind Nuhayad Nenshi. The

7:15

race turned completely upside down when

7:17

the former mayor, the head Nenshi

7:19

of Calgary, entered the race.

7:22

It's a matter of weeks ago actually. For

7:24

those who aren't that familiar with Nenshi,

7:26

and as I mentioned Alberta politics, this

7:29

is fascinating. Explain why because

7:31

of who he is this

7:34

race has been turned upside down. Yeah.

7:36

And the thing is, first of all, he's very well known.

7:38

He's not just known in Alberta. He's known across the country.

7:40

I had Nenshi. I mean, that's why

7:42

we're talking to you. He's a really interesting figure

7:45

for everybody across the country. Yes. And

7:47

he was mayor of Calgary from 2010 to 2021. He's

7:49

an academic by trading. And so

7:52

he enters the race and this is somebody

7:54

who we all know, we all talk about,

7:56

very controversial figure. He's very

7:58

dynamic, really good public. speaker. So he

8:00

is, he enters the race and

8:02

we knew it was coming. In fact, you know,

8:05

I was calling him beforehand. The number of us

8:07

in the media got interviews with him the day

8:09

he was announcing because he's doing, it wasn't a

8:11

big announcement like talking to all the media one

8:13

in one rooms. It was one in one interviews

8:16

to explain what he was doing. It's part

8:18

of a strategy. And this

8:20

caught fire. I was doing columns

8:22

and appearing on national programs, CPC,

8:24

CTV, doing various columns across the

8:26

country because people were thinking, wow,

8:28

this is actually interesting because look,

8:31

the other names in the race,

8:33

no one look in Alberta, people may have

8:35

heard of course, probably heard of Sarah Hoffman and

8:38

Captain Danny, but I sound of Alberta, no one's

8:40

really heard of these people. So in comes the

8:42

head and then she far mirror

8:44

Calgary jumps into the race

8:46

and boy, when a huge splash he

8:48

makes, because all of a sudden everyone

8:50

is talking about him, because

8:52

he is not an insider. He

8:55

is not an NDP member until

8:57

he joined the race basically, all

9:00

the others. There are five I've mentioned,

9:02

there are NDP members, some for decades.

9:05

In comes the head and then she who was not

9:07

an NDP member. In fact, in

9:09

the election last year in 2023, he grudgingly gave

9:14

his support to the NDP because

9:16

himself is non-partisan. In fact, when

9:18

he was mayor, he

9:20

led what was called a purple

9:22

revolution. That was red liberal, blue

9:24

conservative, meshed them together. So he

9:27

was saying, look, I'm not partisan,

9:29

a political party, I want to

9:31

take things from the conservatives, things

9:33

from the liberals, progressive conservatives. And

9:35

so he comes into the race as

9:37

an outsider, but he is somebody

9:39

who has been noted as

9:42

being able to bring people together

9:44

from various political parties. And the

9:46

thing is, what he said last

9:48

year, that he was supporting Rachel

9:50

Notley, but he was kind of doing

9:52

it, grudgingly Saying, look, the NDP

9:54

is not perfect, but he did

9:56

it more as a protest against

9:59

Danielle Smith. How. Did the Conservative

10:01

party who was seen as being too right

10:03

wing face. I basically. You. Know I'm

10:05

not cheating on the Ndp, but they're better than

10:07

Samuel Smith. Fan of a look warm endorsement? The

10:10

thing is, he's using that now as a way

10:12

to say the people lox. If

10:14

you're a more moderate, the don't belong to

10:16

a political party. While listen, I didn't either.

10:19

I. Supported the Ndp. is it? As

10:21

a away are protesting against Danielle

10:23

Smith so I'm still that same

10:25

person who wants to be more

10:27

moderate. bring people together. And

10:29

he's using that argument. As

10:32

a way to try and convince

10:34

other people like him. The. Progressive

10:36

to have little will home. To

10:38

to join his leadership race. make

10:40

some the leader the party. And then

10:43

he can make changes. You. Mention that

10:45

he's a Progressive and you just

10:47

mentioned you know he's appealing to

10:49

progressives who have no real home.

10:51

I think people who maybe aren't

10:53

familiar with the Alberta Ndp would

10:55

wonder if that question, how is

10:58

the Alberta Ndp a difference of

11:00

from what someone in Toronto might

11:02

imagine the Ndp to be and

11:04

what the Ndp is Federally. Yes,

11:07

Yes, and the big issues about the relationship between

11:09

your bird and keeping the Federal Ndp. It's an

11:11

atmospheric and. Right now

11:13

the. Ndp in

11:16

Alberta. Is not like

11:18

the Federal Ndp at all. In

11:20

fact, when Rachel Notley was the

11:22

premier, citizens are some public's arguments.

11:24

Sometimes. Heated arguments with them

11:26

and subleasing leader the the

11:29

Federal New Democrats. And lives

11:31

over things like energy and pipelines.

11:33

So in Alberta, he got the

11:35

Ndp to have an awkward position

11:37

where they're very much about protecting

11:39

the environment, doing things to an

11:41

combat climate change. The Ndp brought

11:43

in a provincial carbon tax which

11:45

was not popular. But. They did

11:47

that. As they were

11:49

promoting pipelines. So when the

11:51

Ndp was reporting the expansion

11:53

of the Sands Mountain Pipeline,

11:56

Not. have talked about spending two billion

11:58

dollars roberta and repairs money to kickstart

12:01

that project that was stalled. This is the

12:03

expansion of the trans mountain pipeline. It's an

12:05

existing pipeline going from Alberta to the West

12:07

Coast. There was plans to actually get that

12:10

twinned and it was getting

12:12

really dicey, would it move ahead or

12:14

not? Notly strong armed the federal government

12:16

into putting money into that pipeline buying

12:18

it and of course it's going to

12:20

be opening pretty soon. It's actually going

12:22

to cost the federal government over $30

12:24

billion. My

12:27

point being that when she was pushing

12:29

things like that, she got

12:31

pushbacks from the federal NDP saying that we

12:33

shouldn't be promoting more oil and gas and

12:35

then she pushed back against them. So you

12:37

have the NDP in Alberta being much

12:40

more like a liberal party in many ways than

12:43

NDP parties in other parts

12:45

of the country. What

12:52

kind of questions does that

12:54

create for this leadership

12:56

race and specifically for Nenshi's

12:59

candidacy? Yeah, so one of

13:02

the big issues coming out of it because I

13:04

think a lot of the issues like this race

13:06

has become a submarine race. Now surprisingly it's all

13:08

under underground underwater base that you really can't see

13:10

much. One of the big issues

13:12

though that is splitting them is the

13:15

idea of cutting formal ties

13:17

with the federal NDP because

13:19

right now the constitution for

13:21

the NDP has written that if you

13:23

join the Alberta NDP you automatically become

13:26

a member of the federal NDP. And

13:29

that's been a problem for the NDP Alberta because

13:31

you've got people thinking, yeah, I like what the

13:33

NDP is doing here. They're trying to balance between

13:35

protecting the climate, fighting climate change

13:37

as well as promoting oil and gas.

13:40

But the minute you become a member of

13:43

the Alberta NDP, you become a member of

13:45

the federal NDP that's very much fighting against

13:47

building more pipelines. So what's happening

13:49

now? You've got Nenshi saying really

13:51

it's time for us to look

13:53

at cutting ties with the federal

13:55

NDP. Now this is something

13:57

as an outsider. He's talking about this. Right?

14:00

Long time traditional Ndp sport as and wait

14:02

a minute, you can cut ties to the

14:04

Federal Ndp. It's that's part of who we

14:06

are. were a big team across the country.

14:09

But it's not just Nancy send

14:11

this brassy pencil the she to

14:13

support behind Nancy. As them, M

14:15

L A C is also very much

14:17

in favor of cutting ties with the

14:19

Federal Ndp, and even Kathleen Ganley. Kathleen.

14:22

Ganley is someone who's looking at

14:24

not necessarily saying cut ties is

14:26

saying i look closer. Debate on

14:29

that. See. Do of people inside

14:31

the party thing is time for us to

14:33

cut ties with the Federal Ndp. And.

14:35

That's the com a bone of contention

14:37

with then the party is not. Look,

14:40

this is not a kind of vicious.

14:42

Campaign like that: The U C

14:44

P Lisa campaign Two years ago,

14:46

when you're Dead: Danielle Smith making

14:49

an outrageous and controversial comments really

14:51

heated dad nasty at times Campaign:

14:53

This is nothing like that, is

14:55

a lot more civilized and therefore.

14:58

Isn't getting as much coverage? But.

15:00

Yet it seems like if I'm hearing

15:02

you correctly, kind of the future of

15:04

the provincial federal relationship of this party

15:06

is at stake, which theoretically at least

15:08

a is a big deal and could

15:10

set a precedent for other provinces. Yeah,

15:12

yeah, no wonder and you know will

15:14

happen at maybe the of the Arrow

15:16

more. I have one problems in a

15:18

sense and cut ties with the federal

15:20

Np Ndp was going to happen nether

15:22

provinces. But. Another way, the

15:24

Ndp in Alberta is unique because

15:27

of the situation here. Behalf separatists

15:29

gas one a guess. But come.

15:32

Aboard as so dependent on fossil

15:34

fuels for revenue. That puts

15:36

the Ndp ones in Dublin to wield mean.

15:39

Both. Is something people are talking

15:41

about and is something that nancy again when

15:43

he said. He old. Last.

15:45

Year when I supported the Ndp

15:48

added that reluctantly is trying to

15:50

change the Ndp and bring more

15:52

moderate sin. And yes, Ratchet Bench

15:54

Holy bright dynamic new M A

15:56

the through her support behind him.

15:59

And nasty. him a lot of credibility inside

16:02

the NDP, I would say, well, because Raki

16:04

Pancholy is really well respected. She's

16:06

only been around since

16:08

2019, so relatively new, but she's very

16:11

dynamic, very well respected. And so for

16:13

her to say, we've got to

16:15

go with Mahatma Nenshi and we've got to

16:17

do things like ties with the federal NDP,

16:20

that does show there's a movement

16:22

inside the party to do

16:24

just that. You mentioned that

16:27

this is kind of a submarine race, which

16:29

I guess by that you mean you kind

16:32

of can't get a sense of it because it's

16:34

all happening below the surface. But what do we

16:36

know about the state of the race so far?

16:38

And why did you say that it's not that

16:40

surprising that we couldn't see much of it? Because

16:43

first of all, it's the opposition, right? When you

16:45

have a leadership race for a government and the

16:47

person who wins will become the premier. So

16:50

whatever they say during leadership race could

16:52

become government policy. We saw that,

16:54

of course, in spades when

16:56

it came to Danielle

16:59

Smith, when she talked

17:01

about a sovereignty act, fighting

17:03

Ottawa tooth and nail, taking

17:05

vengeance basically against the health

17:08

authorities who brought in pandemic

17:10

restrictions. So that we're focused

17:12

on that because that person would become the

17:14

premier of the province. Opposition, even

17:17

though it is the biggest opposition in the history,

17:19

they're still not government. But as

17:21

for the actual race itself, people

17:23

were pointing to Sarah Hoffman

17:25

being the leader. And Sarah

17:28

Hoffman, powerhouse in NDP

17:30

circles in Edmonton. Edmonton is the

17:32

power base of the NDP. But

17:35

Nenshi turned that on his head. And

17:37

when Nenshi came into the

17:39

race, because a lot of activity, not

17:43

only that, membership sales began to

17:45

spike. And

17:47

Raki Pancholy, I talked to

17:49

her a few days before she announced she was stepping down. She

17:51

had no plans to step down at all. She's

17:54

going to run in that race. I mean, coffee

17:56

for an hour and a half in a Friday morning. One of

17:58

the questions I asked her though is that have you... seen

18:00

any updated membership list. In

18:02

other words, you're all selling memberships.

18:05

How is that going? She said, I don't know how

18:07

it's going. We don't have any numbers yet. But then

18:09

a few days later, the following week, they got the

18:12

numbers. That's when Pancholy

18:14

quit. So, look, you know, in

18:16

the first week or so in the race, that

18:18

had meant she managed to sell like bubble

18:21

the amount of memberships in the

18:23

party. And the party held 16,

18:25

that's one 16,000

18:27

members in December of last year. And

18:30

then all of a sudden they had 30,000 roughly. And

18:33

Pancholy said that's mainly because of Nihan Menshi.

18:35

And since then, that Menshi said that the

18:38

party's grown to about 80, like 80,000. Now,

18:42

we haven't got a breakdown as to who's selling the most

18:44

memberships. But we do know as well.

18:47

And you have people like Raki Pancholy

18:49

saying, the reason we've got all these

18:52

members joining is because of Nihan Menshi.

18:54

Now, mind you, Sarah Hoffman and Kathleen

18:56

Ganley are saying, no, no, we're selling

18:58

a lot of memberships too. But

19:01

it does seem to indicate that

19:03

not only are a lot of people joining the

19:05

party, but Nihan Menshi is the

19:08

one who is selling the most memberships.

19:10

And that's going to be key. Because

19:12

the next important date is coming up,

19:14

April 22nd is the deadline for selling

19:17

memberships. After that, you

19:19

got two months until the vote in June.

19:22

So the push is on the next week

19:24

to get more memberships sold. And

19:26

the head Menshi seems to be well

19:28

ahead of the others. I just have

19:30

a couple quick questions for you before we

19:33

wrap up here. I guess my first one

19:35

is logistics. How does the vote actually work?

19:37

I know in other provinces, there's been a

19:39

lot of fighting over this

19:41

and how it's done. Is it a ranked ballot?

19:43

How do they do it? Yeah, it is a

19:45

ranked ballot. So we have first, second, third, fourth,

19:48

fifth choices, right? So this

19:50

means that if nobody wins a majority

19:52

on the first ballot, then the last

19:54

person drops off and their second choice

19:56

goes to spread among the candidates. And

19:58

they keep doing that until somebody gets the vote. the

20:00

majority. In the case of the UCP leadership

20:02

race, it took six ballots for

20:05

Smith to win, but just 43,000.

20:07

She won just over 50%. There wasn't

20:10

like a blowout. It was the small

20:12

fifties over the Travis Taves, the second

20:14

place person. So it's a relatively close

20:16

race that came down to the

20:19

final sixth ballot. So the feeling right

20:21

now for Nenshi is that because

20:23

he's an outsider, there's a good

20:25

chance that people who are voting for

20:27

Sarah Hoffman, Kathleen Gamley, Jody Cowley, The

20:29

Stone House, and Gil McGowan, their

20:32

second choice likely is not going to be Nenshi,

20:34

it's going to be one of the other people.

20:37

So Nenshi needs to win or do exceptionally

20:39

well in the very first ballot. And

20:42

that goes back to selling member fits.

20:44

If you can in a sense, swamp

20:47

the party with new members who are

20:49

supporting you like Nenshi, then

20:51

you could potentially win outright on the first ballot

20:53

or get so close that you're going to win

20:55

on the second or third ballot. But that's what

20:57

it's going to come down to. And

21:00

as I say, it was really close for

21:02

Danielle Smith in 2022 that came to the

21:04

final ballot. We'll see what Nenshi

21:06

is doing. But again, we have to get

21:09

the official numbers. They won't release them to

21:11

us. And even the parties themselves, like the

21:13

candidates, don't really know who's selling the most.

21:15

It's going to be a case, well, no,

21:17

June 22, that the race is

21:20

on right now to sell those

21:22

memberships because that's key, is super

21:24

key right now for someone to

21:26

win, especially Nenshi. He needs to

21:29

flood this race, the

21:31

vote with new members. Last

21:34

question. And I want to be clear that

21:36

I'm not assuming anything or looking beyond the

21:38

actual votes being counted. But

21:41

while I have you here, what

21:43

would you be watching for if

21:45

Nenshi were to lead the NDP

21:47

and go up against Danielle Smith?

21:49

Because that seems

21:52

like a pretty dynamic clash.

21:55

Absolutely. And that's one reason why he's

21:57

seen as a very interesting

21:59

candidate. it to say the least. Because

22:01

his campaign is really about,

22:04

I'm the one that can defeat Danielle

22:06

Smith. The rest of them,

22:08

you know, have tried. They're part of the team

22:10

that did not beat Danielle Smith. The

22:13

UCP won under Kenny in 2019, won under Smith

22:15

in 2023. So

22:19

he is saying, look, I'm the one that beat the

22:21

UCP. I'm the one that

22:23

can bring down Danielle Smith. And

22:26

that's what we'll be looking for is that

22:28

he wins. How does he do that?

22:30

And also he won't have a seat in the

22:32

legislature, the rest of them, other than Kim McGowan,

22:34

have seats in the legislature. So how's that going

22:36

to work? The

22:38

big question for Alberta is,

22:41

can the NDP maintain this two-party

22:43

system that we have right now?

22:46

It's a big opposition. Because Alberta's had, you

22:48

know, a century, basically, of having one

22:51

party in government and a

22:53

very, very small opposition. The

22:56

NDP at one point only had two seats

22:58

in opposition to the conservatives in the past.

23:01

Now they have 38 seats. And the

23:03

thing is, has Alberta progressed

23:05

to a two-party system? That's

23:09

the big question that won't be answered until

23:11

the next election in another three years. So

23:14

there's two questions right now if then she wins.

23:16

How does he take on Smith? How does

23:19

that, the optics of that work, the logistics

23:21

of that work? And finally, next

23:23

election, can he bring

23:25

down the UCP and make

23:27

Alberta a really two-party system?

23:30

I've got to say, okay, Jordan, there's kind

23:32

of a curse in Alberta politics. And this

23:34

is not quite scientific. But basically, every

23:37

political party that has formed

23:39

government and then lost government, that

23:42

party never returns to power. Wow.

23:44

I didn't know that. The

23:47

liberals in power 100 years ago,

23:49

United Farmers of Alberta, the

23:51

so-called social credit, the progressive

23:53

conservatives. So this is something

23:56

in the background, of course, it's not scientific.

23:58

It's just the fact of Alberta. culture, that

24:00

the NDP, if they were to win again, that

24:02

would be the first time we saw a political

24:05

party make a comeback and come back to power.

24:07

Graham, that's fascinating. This should be

24:09

a fascinating leadership race and it'd

24:11

be interesting to see the future

24:13

of the provincial federal NDP relations.

24:16

Thanks so much. It's been my pleasure. That

24:21

was Graham Thompson and that was The

24:23

Big Story. For more, you

24:25

can head to thebigstorypodcast.ca. And

24:28

if you want to leave us feedback, you

24:30

can do it by emailing us hello at

24:32

thebigstorypodcast.ca or by just

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giving us a call, 416-935-5935. You

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can tell all of us here in Ontario

24:41

how little we know about Alberta. Seriously,

24:44

though, we appreciate all feedback, criticism

24:46

or praise or even just suggestions

24:48

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24:52

The Big Story is available in every single

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play The Big Story podcast. Thanks

25:02

for listening. I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings. We'll talk

25:04

tomorrow. I'm

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Laura Palmer, host of Island Crime.

25:12

Season 6, Sweethearts, is the story

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of three teenage girls who were

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all murdered in Victoria, Canada within

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about 12 months. So

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she was scared, something out there scared her.

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You just created the playground where

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predators can really thrive. She

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was a 16-year-old girl. She

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was a sweetheart. Listen to

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