0:00

Coming up, Nick Sixers,

0:02

some great NBA. Oh, and a lot

0:04

of Pearl Jam. Yeah, that's next. This

0:08

episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official

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LDA 21 and up. This

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episode is brought to you by Netflix. Get ready for

0:52

the greatest roast of all time, the roast of Tom

0:54

Brady, a Netflix live event happening

0:56

May 5th, seven time

0:58

world champion, modern day legend, my favorite quarterback

1:01

ever. Tom Brady, the greatest of all time,

1:03

finally gets roasted. It's gonna be hosted by

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Kevin Hart and Tom Brady will

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get his cleats held to the fire by

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1:13

roast master himself, Jeff Ross. It's gonna be

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an unforgettable night where everything is fair game.

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Tune in on May 5th at 5 p.m.

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Pacific time for the roast of Tom Brady

1:22

live only on Netflix. We're

1:25

also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast

1:27

Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you

1:29

on Monday. We are doing Along Came Polly,

1:31

2004 comedy. Came out 20

1:33

years ago, Ben Stiller, Jennifer Aniston and the

1:35

great Philip Seymour Hoffman who is just

1:37

out of control on this movie. This is a really, really

1:39

fun movie. It was me and Sean Fennessee. We had a

1:41

great time. Coming up

1:43

on this podcast, first hour

1:45

me and Rob Mahoney, we

1:48

did this live on YouTube,

1:50

on youtube.com/Bill Simmons right after

1:52

Nick Sixers, which

1:54

was a very fun game and a very,

1:56

very, very fun series. We broke down everything

1:58

that happened. We talked some. bucks, Pacers,

2:01

clips, Mavericks, try to

2:03

figure out what's going to happen in Cavs magic. What's

2:06

going to happen in Timberwolves, Nuggets, which has

2:08

a chance to be the best series of

2:10

the playoffs. So we went for

2:12

about an hour. And then after that, if

2:14

you're here for Pearl Jam, don't worry,

2:17

they're coming. Eddie Vedder, Jeff

2:19

Ament. I went to Seattle

2:21

last week, hung out with those guys

2:23

in their famous warehouse. We

2:26

were in the batting cage. We

2:28

filmed it. You can watch it on

2:31

youtube.com/Bill Simmons. You can listen

2:33

to it at the one hour mark of this podcast. And

2:35

we talked about a whole bunch of stuff.

2:37

I had a list of things in my head I wanted to

2:39

get to. And we probably only got to half of it. Went

2:42

all over the place. I had a great time.

2:45

Their new album is called Dark Matter. And I

2:48

got to say I love their new album. I

2:50

think it's either my third or

2:52

fourth favorite album of theirs. And

2:55

I've been listening to a lot. It's just

2:57

really good. So if you haven't listened to

2:59

it, go check it out. Anyway, they're coming up

3:01

at the one hour mark. And first we'll do

3:03

some basketball. But first,

3:06

unironically, Pearl Jam. All

3:28

right, we're taping this. It

3:32

is 8 47 p.m. Pacific time.

3:35

Rob Mahoney. That's when my soul left

3:38

my body. So I'm glad we have a timestamp on it. Nick

3:41

Sixters, not a series for

3:44

the faint of heart. We're doing this live on

3:46

YouTube. I needed time to regroup, but we told

3:48

people we're going live. So let's do it. The

3:52

Jaylen Brunson series. Do we start

3:54

there? It's good to see

3:56

the greatest nick of all time at what's basically the

3:58

ground floor. I'm glad we get to. be here for

4:00

this. New York City

4:02

Hoops God summons the ghost,

4:04

even though he's still alive of Bernard

4:06

King 40 years ago, who had the

4:09

greatest two series stretch in

4:11

the recent history of the New York Knicks. Brunson goes, he

4:14

goes 22 and 24, the first two games, and then

4:19

39, 47, 40,

4:24

41, which is outrageous. And there was a moment in

4:26

this game when it felt

4:28

like Philly was going to come back and win when they

4:30

had the little seven point run there. And it

4:33

felt chaotic. Again, the crowd was into it. Brunson

4:35

calm things down. He made a big shot, missed

4:37

the foul shot, but I felt

4:40

like that stemmed the tide. But he was the best

4:42

part in the series. And usually that's the rule. Best

4:44

part in the series wins the series.

4:47

I don't know how to feel about the MB piece of

4:49

this because on the one hand, he was good tonight. 39

4:51

points imposed as well. 16

4:53

points in the third quarter. On another

4:56

hand, as was

4:58

the pattern kind of stunk in the

5:00

fourth quarter. They didn't really do very much and then fouled

5:02

out. This was definitely

5:04

the piece of complicating evidence for

5:06

the mounting noise about, Oh, give

5:08

more of the offense to Tyrese

5:10

Maxie, even more leeway for

5:12

this electric scoring guard we have. I thought

5:15

in the first half, especially, and particularly in

5:17

the first quarter, you saw the real limitations

5:19

of Maxie as a playmaker. He looked just

5:21

dazed with all the activity that was going

5:23

on defensively. And Joel is the only reason

5:25

the Sixers got back in this game. I

5:27

know they may have run without him playing

5:29

small, but he stabilized them. And he's the

5:31

one who really reversed the energy of it

5:34

to that feeling of inevitability where for a long

5:36

stretch, the Knicks could not guard him one

5:38

on one. And when they tried to double him,

5:41

Buddy Heald came out of nowhere to hit every three

5:43

from the weak side corner. The

5:45

way all of those pieces kind of interlocked,

5:47

I mean, Joel was sensational. And I think

5:49

the inevitability that he was playing with to

5:51

the vast majority of this game was really

5:53

impressive. He does wear out

5:55

by the end, though. And especially when you

5:57

have guys who can't get him timely entry passes.

6:00

guys who can't properly space for him. And

6:02

I thought the Knicks do their credit, were

6:04

junking up their coverages just enough where when

6:07

he caught the ball in by the fourth

6:09

quarter, at least he couldn't be a hundred percent sure

6:11

whether it was going to be a single or a

6:13

double or kind of a shading zone. It was mixed

6:15

up just enough to keep him guessing. I'm

6:17

glad you mentioned that. Cause I noticed that it reminded

6:20

me of in football when they start trying

6:22

to mess with the quarterback and their show

6:24

blitz one time, they don't blitz. Then they

6:26

send a blitz. And

6:28

they basically for the first three quarters,

6:30

it felt like they were just conventional,

6:32

right? We don't want to give up any threes. You

6:34

do what you got to do, Joel. And he

6:36

was, he was burning them. We

6:39

don't get to the fourth quarter. Now all of a sudden the

6:41

second guy out of nowhere, pretending to send

6:43

the second guy, but then coming back. And it did

6:45

feel like it screwed him up. There were moments when

6:47

it just didn't seem like he wanted to shoot in

6:49

the last five minutes. You know what I'm saying? Like

6:51

he was passing up foul on jumpers.

6:53

He was kind of hot potatoing it at the top

6:55

of the key. And he also

6:57

looked super tired to me. And that's one of

7:00

the things, I mean, this is such a weird

7:02

series and I think we'll remember it as a

7:04

really, really, really, really fun. I won't think, I

7:06

don't think we'll call it the greatest first round

7:09

series ever or anything like that, but a super

7:11

fun first round series. Absolutely. One of the things

7:13

I'll always wonder about it is why they never

7:15

figured out how to pace and bead so

7:18

that he was peaking at the right times of

7:20

the game. Because he clearly had

7:22

about, what do you think? Like 29 to 30

7:25

good minutes in him every game. And

7:27

maybe Nick Nurse felt like they just

7:29

couldn't survive it. But he always felt to me like

7:31

this car that was like, you know, when

7:33

you're trying to get to a gas station, you don't

7:36

want to get off the highway. No, there's a gas

7:38

station 13 miles away. I think we could make it.

7:41

That was Nick Nurse's strategy for this

7:43

entire series. I think we

7:45

can make it. I think there's, no, no, there's a gas

7:47

station down there with the chick-fil-a and just wait, wait, wait,

7:50

we're going to get there. And then

7:52

you break down on the side of the road. This has

7:54

always been the Nick Nurse school is let's just

7:56

add five more minutes to that guy's workload. Let's

7:58

just keep pressing a little. bit more and

8:00

see if it works and see if it works.

8:02

But going against Tibbs who's also like, oh no,

8:05

hold my beer. I

8:07

appreciate the commitment to endurance on all sides. But

8:10

I think contributing to that and the Nick

8:12

Nurse dilemma as far as when to pull

8:14

Joel Embiid and how to format

8:16

the lineups to best accommodate that, every

8:19

time he steps on the floor feels

8:21

incredibly precarious. And there were like

8:23

five players in this game for whom it felt

8:25

that way. The thought of,

8:28

especially when Joel was roasting

8:30

Isaiah Hartenstein, the thought of

8:32

taking Mitchell Robinson off the floor felt dangerous

8:34

for the Knicks. Obviously every minute that Jalen

8:37

Brunson sits, but that was the determining difference,

8:39

I thought. In the mid fourth

8:41

quarter, the Knicks bought like two minutes for Jalen

8:43

Brunson to sit. And he

8:45

comes back in and he makes everything happen.

8:48

And Joel just didn't really have that kind

8:50

of finishing burst. And

8:52

they got a big three from Josh Hart at the perfect

8:54

time. Amazing. I

8:56

think 25 seconds left to go up by three.

8:58

And they figured out actually what to

9:01

do in the last 10 seconds to protect

9:03

the lead. Yeah. Hey, use your fouls. Hey,

9:05

maybe cut off Tyreese Maxey so he doesn't

9:07

have a full start. So they actually

9:09

learned from some of their mistakes.

9:12

When you think of like we're heading

9:15

into like the fourth quarter and

9:17

I was taking notes, I

9:19

thought Philly was going to win. It was tied going

9:21

into the fourth. I just felt like this is going

9:24

to be Philly's game. So I'm kind of taking notes,

9:26

but my notes are a little slanted toward Philly's going

9:28

to win game seven. Where are we going? Who's going

9:30

to have enough left in the tank? What's that crowd

9:32

going to be like? And then

9:35

all of a sudden the Knicks were up by like, you

9:37

know, halfway through all of a sudden they're up seven. And it

9:39

was like, Oh man, the Knicks, this series

9:41

had so many different swings back and

9:43

forth. I almost couldn't keep track. Ultimately

9:46

though, how good are these teams? It's

9:49

a great question. Because we're going to

9:51

watch Minnesota, Denver on Saturday night. And

9:54

I think the quality of basketball in that

9:56

series versus what we just watched where we're

9:58

going to have size. We're going to have

10:01

scoring, we're going to have playmaking, we're going

10:03

to have guys off the bench who can

10:05

actually come in and affect games. We're going

10:07

to have teams with real identities, we're going to have teams

10:09

that can protect the rim. And

10:11

I just think like this was a super fun series, but

10:13

it feels a little like the JV to me. But

10:16

it's two JV teams that are so evenly matched and

10:18

know how to fight. And that's the important thing at

10:21

the end of the day is you can get great

10:23

series anywhere in the bracket. It just has to be

10:25

the right matchup. And this was that. And

10:27

neither of these teams are as good as Minnesota,

10:29

much less as good as a defending champion like

10:31

Denver. And that's okay. They're

10:33

both pretty banged up. They're both playing to the absolute

10:35

limit, balls to the wall. And the

10:38

chaos was just off the charts. Like this

10:40

series did only have like one setting on

10:42

the dial and it was insane all the

10:44

time. To the point that

10:46

as you said, guys falling everywhere, like everywhere.

10:49

And to the point, as you mentioned, like the Knicks being

10:51

buttoned up for the final 30 seconds of

10:53

this game felt shocking. I'm generally

10:55

like jarred that nothing weird happened because I'm

10:58

so conditioned to everything weird happening all the

11:00

time with these two teams. And

11:02

it never felt like whoever was up was going

11:04

to make the two free throws. It just felt

11:06

like the other team was always hanging

11:08

around. Unfortunately for Maxi, who

11:11

had one of the great, you know,

11:13

memorable random playoff games in game five

11:15

and the seven pointer on two possessions

11:18

and you know, and now this

11:20

is what happens. I talked about this in my pod

11:22

on Tuesday night. You

11:24

lose the next game in those games.

11:26

Kind of, they just kind of fade away

11:28

a little bit. Still really fun. I don't

11:30

remember that one, but it loses like

11:33

what? 90% of the meeting. A

11:36

lot of it. Still really fun, but not the same. And

11:39

he wasn't good tonight was the other piece. And

11:41

there were reasons for that. They definitely changed what

11:43

they're doing defensively on them. I also think it's

11:45

really hard to just have two incredible games in

11:47

a row is James Harden and Paul George can

11:49

tell us. And yet he

11:51

almost pulled it out too. You know, as far

11:53

as all of the closing plays, as we're mentioning,

11:55

they weren't really coming from Joel and beat, although

11:57

he was adding screens, he was involved. see

12:00

converting a layup in which

12:02

his body was fully parallel to the ground.

12:05

And then following it up with that and

12:07

one goal tend, I

12:10

mean, if anyone was going to close it, it was going to be him. And

12:12

in all due respect, Kelly Oubre, who came up

12:14

with sensational plays throughout this game, I

12:17

was kind of flagging them as I was

12:19

going to, almost expecting the Sixers to win

12:21

at various points. Once they started, once they

12:23

came back from that initial, I think it was

12:25

like they were down 19 after eight minutes. But

12:27

once they started whittling that down, I

12:30

started flagging plays. And one of them

12:32

was Kelly Oubre's chase down block on

12:35

OG Ananobi, because it

12:37

completely saved a play out of nowhere. And I think you

12:39

could do the same thing in the opposite direction with OG's

12:42

and one on Joel in the fourth quarter

12:44

passing up a wide open three to drive

12:46

in and finish. Incredible play made by him.

12:49

But then you mark it going down the other way because

12:51

he missed the free throw. And it's just like there's just

12:53

constant toggling of these hugely momentous

12:55

plays. And I thought this series

12:57

was a great reminder and these playoffs in general, all

13:00

the offense is great. But what makes

13:02

offense cool is defense. It's like games that

13:05

are this tight where every three feels like

13:07

the biggest shot in the world. And

13:09

that's where we want to be in this kind of playoff basketball. The

13:12

biggest thing for the Knicks tonight, they knew it there

13:14

again for Brunson. But I

13:16

thought, Difincenzo, who ended up, did he,

13:18

is that saying 48 minutes? 46

13:21

or 48, I can't see. He

13:25

had 23. He finally got going. That was

13:27

the thing in the first five games. It just didn't

13:29

look like him. Fennessy said that on the pod on

13:31

Tuesday night. He'd been their second best

13:33

player for the last two months of the season. And

13:36

he was kind of MIA. And I think he knew

13:38

it. He came out hot. He made

13:40

a couple big shots early on when

13:43

they built that lead. He made a couple big shots late.

13:45

His defense was there. He was scrappy. It just

13:47

looked like him again. So they had him going.

13:50

I thought OG had another good game. They

13:52

feel like a guy's short to me if

13:54

they're going to keep climbing rounds. Next

13:57

round might not matter. Is it the 48

13:59

minutes for? Dante or the 46 for Josh Harder,

14:01

the 45 for OG that makes you think they

14:03

might need one more guy. Are they

14:06

playing Sunday? Is this? I hope not.

14:08

Oh my God. Let's just pack them

14:10

in like a movable sauna truck and just keep

14:12

them in there full stop as they head back.

14:15

Like we got to get these guys some kind

14:17

of recovery. Oh they got it. So Monday night

14:19

is the first game. That's good for them. Okay

14:21

good. Little time. Little time

14:25

to recoup. At

14:27

these paces of these games you're not meant to

14:29

play 45 minutes. No. That's

14:32

just crazy. Plus like the way guys were flying

14:34

around and there was at least 10 times in

14:36

this series where somebody was down and I was

14:38

like that guy's out for the series. We're

14:41

not going to see him again. Walk

14:44

me through where Philly is mentally right now.

14:46

The fan base, the

14:49

organization. Yeah. And

14:52

Bede was healthy enough right? I,

14:56

you know, it's like oh yeah he wasn't 100%. I

14:59

guess my question would be is he

15:01

ever going to be 100%? Is

15:03

this somebody who's meant to play eight months of

15:06

basketball each year? Is

15:08

it bad luck? Is it something else? He seemed

15:10

exhausted near the end of every one of these

15:12

games. I don't know. From

15:14

a physical shape standpoint I wouldn't say he was

15:16

an A+. He

15:18

was doing enough. He was still impactful. It's

15:21

going to be 31 next year. I

15:25

think the Sixers fans are like we would love

15:27

for this to be Maxi's team too. I don't

15:29

know how that plays out. They're

15:32

going to probably lose Oubre. My

15:34

guess that he'll especially with all

15:37

the teams that have cap space and the lack of

15:39

free agents. They have

15:41

cap space. There's been Paul George rumors. I don't

15:43

know why Paul George would not go to Orlando

15:46

over Philly if I had the choice and I'm

15:48

just betting on a team. I'm

15:50

betting on Orlando over Philly. That's just me.

15:53

Wow. Not

15:55

a lot of guys left. This

15:58

is now year 10 of the NBA. and

16:00

they've never made a conference finals. So

16:02

how do you even react to

16:04

this series? What's your takeaway if you're like

16:06

the advisor to the Philly owners? I

16:10

don't know that you have a choice if you're Philly,

16:12

but to stay the course on Joel

16:14

and making it the best team you can every time

16:16

out. And obviously Maxie needs to be a huge part

16:19

of that. I personally would love Paul George as a

16:21

fit there. And if I'm Paul George, I would love

16:23

to fit there. I think in

16:25

terms of what PG would want, playing

16:27

in between an MVP

16:30

kind of player and a young ascendant star takes

16:32

a lot of heat off of him, lets him

16:34

play a much more comfortable role both

16:36

on and off the ball and where he can be

16:38

an impact defensive player again on the perimeter on a

16:40

really consistent basis. I think that could be an

16:42

ideal spot for him. And if you can land a player like that,

16:45

everything changes pretty quickly. What are

16:47

you worried about? Can I zag on that for a second? Let's talk

16:49

it through. It's

16:51

from LA or LA area. Comes back, wanted

16:53

to be here. Everyone thought he wanted to

16:55

be in the Lakers, he winds up

16:58

on the Clippers, but he's in LA. Now

17:01

you're asking him to leave LA again. He's

17:03

gonna go back to, now he's going to the East Coast, which

17:07

he's never gone that far. The reason to leave

17:09

would be I can't take this Kawhi thing anymore.

17:12

I can't do it. This has been a half a decade

17:14

of never knowing if this fucking guy's playing or not. And

17:17

I just wanna be on a good team that

17:20

has some regularity to it. So you're gonna go cross

17:22

country and play with

17:24

Joe Willimbeid? You're doing some self-projection as East

17:26

Coast guy moves to LA and never leaves

17:28

again. You're entrenched. I'm

17:31

just like, if I'm gonna have uncertainty, I might as well

17:33

stay in LA. It's fair. If

17:36

you're gonna talk to me in Orlando and

17:38

Palo, who's like a shooting star upwards and

17:40

cap space and a young team in defense

17:42

and a team that really needs what he

17:44

can do, if I'm

17:46

leaving the Clippers, I'm leaving for that. And

17:49

I don't care where he goes. Either way, they're gonna

17:51

be a competitor for the Celtics. But to

17:53

go to Philly and be in the same kind of

17:55

is he playing or is he playing situation, I don't

17:57

know why he would do that. Yeah, I

17:59

think. With Orlando, it's a matter of how

18:01

close do you think that team is and how

18:04

much do you think their current problems are. Spacing.

18:07

Mechanical problems vs. decision making young

18:09

player problems I think right. Combination

18:11

of both. But. If you're

18:13

Paul George. Thirty. Four years old.

18:16

You're. Kind of picking your shot right now like

18:18

this next team is gonna be the team that's

18:20

gonna give you a chance to potentially contend for

18:23

a title. and if if you wanna chill with

18:25

the clippers and enjoy all that that entails. Our

18:27

to you but I think Philly could give him. If.

18:30

Not his death and close to is that since

18:32

actually contend for something. This.

18:34

Message was presented by Daryl Morey.

18:38

You know it, I was this Cooper game I

18:40

say and they do the rosters yeah and it's

18:43

I baba love and is twelve the air

18:45

bubbles. So they get the Paul George end. Up

18:48

in a bunch of quip or games I just

18:50

never noticed before Their i can is fourteen season.

18:53

I'm like oh my cat that plastic

18:55

workers Fourteen Seasons already kids my the

18:57

the bomb as like this. Run.

18:59

Of young guy he looks the same. But.

19:02

So this next contract will be yours. Fifteen

19:04

sixteen, seventeen, eighteen suits and he's got a

19:06

metal rod and his leg and you know

19:08

he said some other injuries and on either

19:11

made me think like. He's.

19:13

Probably taken one last big as

19:15

contract. I. Don't know what happens with the

19:17

Mbps a bit. Where.

19:20

What? Happens is if he's like you know at.

19:23

Maybe it's time. Maybe.

19:26

It's that maybe it's time for me to move on,

19:28

but maybe it's time for me to get a fresh

19:30

start. What happens if the sixers get a little aggressive

19:32

with him like a we need to be better shape

19:34

did. They. Get you can

19:36

play your self self in the shape during the

19:38

season you have a lot of miles I need

19:40

that. A lot of different injuries we really way

19:43

to dedicate. We don't think you should play Team

19:45

Usa. Why I wanna play Team Usa or to

19:47

get my words like there's ways this could go

19:49

wrong. And then it the

19:51

Daryl Morey piece. What? Happens

19:53

there. How. Many how many

19:55

years the see get. The.

19:58

do they start look at an insight that a

20:00

little bit. Like they just made all these moves,

20:02

they traded James Harden, didn't really get a lot

20:04

back. Not that if you watched them last night,

20:06

you would have been made you got anything back,

20:08

but do they start wondering

20:10

like is his vision the right vision? All

20:14

fair questions. I think as far as

20:16

the moves that they made with what they had, Uber

20:19

is a great example. That's a that's a home

20:21

run signing, given the financial

20:23

investment. Kyle Lowry, a non-factor

20:25

in this game, but has been meaningful in

20:27

others and that's a pickup, a

20:30

marginal pickup along the margins, a marginal

20:32

pickup along the edges of the roster.

20:35

This cost us nothing. That's about as well as you can

20:37

do. Certainly better than buying out of it now at first.

20:40

And if the Anthony Melton had been consistently healthy,

20:43

maybe that would have made this team look a

20:45

little different in terms of its perimeter rotation too.

20:47

Maybe you're not begging on a prayer from Buddy

20:49

Heald and campaign to save you in some

20:51

of these games, but that's where they found

20:54

themselves. And those guys did deliver moments, not

20:56

consistently enough. Yeah, but they did all

20:58

right. I think the problem with them is more

21:01

like you look real sideways at Tobias

21:03

Harris as Philly fans have for a very

21:05

long time, but as vacant

21:07

and invisible as you could possibly be in a

21:10

game in which you played 29 minutes and basically

21:12

had to play 29 minutes. And that's the spot

21:14

where whether you're talking about Paul George or

21:16

anyone else, they just have to get

21:18

some flexible forward size that makes sense

21:20

next to Joel. That is not Tobias

21:22

Harris. Do you think they could

21:24

have gotten Bradley Beal last summer straight up

21:26

for Tobias Harris as an expiring and would

21:28

you have done that? And was that a

21:30

mistake or was that a great move not

21:32

to do that? I think it's a great

21:34

move not to do it. Yeah,

21:37

I mean, how bad is that for Bradley Beal? And

21:39

we're not having this conversation about could they

21:41

get Paul George if you

21:43

make the trade for Bradley Beal's

21:45

non-tradable contract, right? You're locking yourself

21:47

into that massive number when the

21:50

Sixers are one of the few teams that are going

21:52

to play the cap space game a little bit. And

21:54

that's an actual asset for them. Well,

21:56

they could have gone after Siakam. The

22:00

Knicks also could have gotten Siakam. And we're

22:02

going to talk about Indiana next segment. But

22:05

both of the Knicks, I think, were like, you know what?

22:07

We're not close to winning a

22:09

title. OG was our big move. These

22:13

are baby steps. We're going to wait for

22:15

the big fish next summer. Well, plus

22:17

with all due respect, you've seen OG and

22:19

Siakam together. You know where the

22:21

front court is. Yeah, so maybe they picked the one and two. Philly

22:24

could have at least matched what Indiana

22:26

gave up for Siakam. Indiana

22:29

didn't give up a pick this year for Siakam, but this

22:31

is probably the worst draft in 11 years.

22:35

So if they had been future picks, maybe that

22:37

would have been even more desirable for Toronto anyway.

22:40

But I was just thinking about it because Siakam

22:42

was good in that Milwaukee series. And it

22:44

was funny that we were all looking at that

22:46

trade when it happened. Like, yeah, Siakam, good player.

22:49

And then meanwhile, we do the ringer 100 rankings.

22:52

And he's always, I forget where he is, but he's always somewhere

22:55

in the 40s, low 50s. Right.

22:58

And it's like, you know what? When a

23:00

guy like Siakam, yeah, don't look at me

23:02

on that. I'm in those meetings

23:04

stumping for pass out past Cal Siakam with a

23:07

sandwich sign on, doing

23:09

spin moves, trying to get him moved up the ranking

23:11

a little bit. But sometimes it falls on deaf ears.

23:14

Well, the segment that I was most excited to do

23:16

for this part was quickie pressure

23:18

rankings for game seven. There

23:21

will be no game seven and

23:23

no pressure at all, it turns out. And

23:25

we should mention from the

23:28

fan bases, the psyches of these two fan

23:30

bases was one of the most fun parts

23:32

of the series. And you might have heard

23:34

fantasy on here on Tuesday having like an

23:36

actual mental breakdown. The

23:39

Philly fans are an

23:41

all time mess. They don't

23:43

know what to make of the future of this

23:45

team. How do we feel about Joelle? There's camp

23:47

swarming. And and then the

23:49

way this played out, where

23:52

are we going? What did we just do with

23:54

the last 10 years of our lives? All of

23:56

those questions are in play. The Knicks fans were

23:59

going to a. dark place if they blew this game

24:01

tonight. I think that if that had been a

24:03

game seven with them blowing big

24:05

leads in game six and then blowing game five

24:07

the way they did that game seven would have

24:10

been one of the most fascinating first round game

24:12

sevens, but we'll never know. Yeah.

24:14

How do you think Sixers fans are going

24:16

to deal with in retrospect the game

24:18

five miracle, the kind of miracle

24:21

that the Sixers never get and have never really gotten

24:23

in the Joel era for the most part. Every bad

24:25

break is pretty much turned against them and

24:27

yet they get this one. Yeah, it

24:29

goes absolutely nowhere and fizzles out basically immediately.

24:32

That's, that's gotta be tough. Yeah.

24:35

And then there's that the dark side of

24:37

you, if you're a Sixers fan or it's like maybe

24:40

if that didn't happen,

24:43

maybe some tougher conversations could have

24:45

then happened. Yeah. Instead

24:47

we bought some hope. I just

24:49

don't know where you are with this and be thing. If

24:51

you're trying to win a title with

24:54

all the miles that he has, the

24:56

surgeries that he's had already, how we've

24:59

seen these games go, what we've seen in the

25:01

fourth quarters from him, how

25:03

this is going to get better. I

25:05

keep at like, this is what I talked to my affiliate fan

25:07

friends about all of them are like love

25:10

Joel, like watching him. He's definitely

25:12

one of the best players in the league. I don't know

25:14

how this gets better when he's 31 32 33, especially if

25:16

you look at the history of

25:19

centers too. Wings,

25:21

wings can age the best. Some

25:25

point guards age really well. Centers usually

25:27

don't age well. Centers

25:29

say, you know, year 10 through year 13, it

25:31

starts to flip and you can look at any

25:33

great center and it starts to flip the knees.

25:35

They just have a lot of weight and a

25:38

lot of, you know, a lot

25:40

of inches. It's like a big building. And

25:44

that would be what I would be thinking about

25:46

this summer. And I'd be absolutely furious if you

25:48

played team USA, if I was the Philly owner

25:50

or if I was a Philly fan. Like

25:53

what the fuck are you playing team USA for? Take

25:55

the summer off. Get healthy. Get your needs

25:58

healthy. He should. Kawhi

26:00

too, Kawhi, just bow

26:02

out. You can't even play

26:04

for the Clippers, bow out. Get out

26:06

of Team USA, you're done. It's a

26:09

very anti-American stance from you, Bill, you know?

26:12

I wanna win the gold medal. Our boys and boys

26:14

are trying to win it for us over there, come

26:16

on. Yeah. Get Jaylen Brunson on that team. I

26:18

wouldn't say what the Sixers have needed,

26:21

and it's weird because they tried this

26:23

with the very wretched and cursed Al

26:25

Horford experiment, but they needed a

26:28

player all along who could keep Joel's

26:30

minutes down and control his exposure in

26:32

some of these games, and they needed

26:34

it cheap. They needed Isaiah Hartenstein, effectively,

26:36

right? Like they needed that kind of

26:38

discovery, that kind of find, a guy

26:40

who could really plug in and make

26:42

the no-Joel minutes something other than an

26:44

abject disaster all the time, and they've

26:46

never, ever found it, and as

26:48

this series illuminated, Paul Reed is not the

26:50

answer. He's basically unplayable by the end of

26:52

the series. Well, the irony of you laying

26:54

that out was they had a chance to

26:56

just not keep Paul Reed. What

26:59

was it? Utah made like a poison pill offer for

27:01

him. Yeah. Philly to

27:03

match it, he became untradeable,

27:06

and they decided to keep the asset over

27:09

just letting him go, and then he gets to the playoffs and

27:12

he can't play him. Too bad. I

27:14

don't know if we can call him playoff pee anymore. Is that his

27:16

nickname? Paul Reed, or B-Ball

27:18

Paul, come on. But what about

27:20

playoff pee? Oh, playoff pee is Paul George.

27:22

Yeah. This is live on YouTube. I'm so glad

27:25

to see my fidelity. We'll

27:27

never confuse it for playoff pee. Would have been a

27:29

better joke. Kyle, edit that out of the YouTube. Oh

27:31

no, you can't. Let's take a

27:33

break on YouTube really quick and on

27:36

the podcast and we'll come right back.

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28:55

I want to talk

28:57

about Indiana because they clinched tonight. They beat Milwaukee

29:00

and you would have thought I would say let's talk

29:03

about Milwaukee. Oh my God. Indiana

29:05

feel good, feel good

29:07

mid market story. Absolutely. They

29:09

have Paul George doesn't want to be there

29:11

anymore. They turn them into Ola Deepo and

29:13

Subonis. They get real

29:16

all-star years out of Ola Deepo before

29:18

it gets hurt. Subonis turns into an

29:20

asset. They turn Subonis

29:22

into Halliburton who becomes a possible

29:24

NBA guy. They trade

29:26

picks for Siakam really smart trade.

29:28

They have this Malcolm Brogdon piece doesn't really totally

29:31

fit with how with Halliburton. They want to turn

29:33

team over to him. They turn him into Aaron

29:35

Neesmith. They go

29:37

discount shopping. They get TJ McConnell. They get

29:39

Obi Toppin basically for nothing. Everyone

29:42

waits for them to trade Miles Turner and Buddy Heald

29:45

to the Lakers or just trade Miles Turner. They say

29:47

you know what we're actually going to keep Miles Turner.

29:49

We like the way he plays with Tyrese

29:53

Halliburton. Now they're in

29:55

the second round of the playoffs and

29:57

they wax this No-Yahnes, Milwaukee.

30:00

The team. Which. Was even

30:02

without. Yeah, that's pretty expensive. On

30:04

another plane the next. In.

30:07

Round two and we're going to be

30:09

treated to just a slew of Reggie

30:11

Miller, Spike Lee nineties four point shot.

30:13

Reading it, all that stuff and it's

30:15

gonna be great. but I can. you

30:17

think? Is it's the biggest success

30:19

story the season to Indiana which go another

30:21

team. Or it is that

30:23

what I occasions where. He. I think

30:25

organizationally feels like a huge one. This is

30:28

a team that I think seeing them make

30:30

the next step was seeing them. Secure.

30:33

Even. A playoff seed like the one they

30:35

had registered the top six. That's an achievement. Get.

30:37

Through a series like this, even without Yannis, even

30:40

with same injured for particle injured for all of

30:42

that, but out for part of. You're

30:44

an incredible achievement. Most. Importantly, I

30:46

think if you if you know there's a lot

30:48

ups and downs clearly for Indian and the execution

30:51

and some of these games. but if you look

30:53

at he morning insects. Those.

30:55

Are very, very different teams that Indiana put on the

30:57

floor. That's a team that grew up in their young

30:59

playoff experience and that's really all you want from this

31:02

sort of series. Obviously, you want to advance, you want

31:04

to do the best you can with the opportunity in

31:06

front of you, but you want to see these young

31:08

guys figure it out. And they absolutely delighted. Tyree

31:11

caliber and in particular. Even.

31:13

Just seeing him like attack the basket a little

31:15

more in this close our game like yeah, maybe

31:17

three games too late. but. A. Relief to

31:19

see. Yeah. They. The.

31:22

Me Mcconnell is great! I

31:24

got forty one from Mcconnell and Top and. And.

31:27

This was this is where the honest

31:29

peace both I think batters and does

31:32

matter. Walking couldn't guard anybody's point guard

31:34

the whole season. Know. And.

31:36

Indiana was always bad matchup for them and

31:39

could just send these guards. is constantly just

31:41

fly by people getting the pain make it

31:43

so happens. I

31:47

gotta be honest, I think Indiana were beaten

31:49

walking with or without Yannis. As didn't

31:51

Regular season as you said, pretty Only I can

31:53

only do I think they would. A while I

31:55

thought that Milwaukee team was really suspect that that

31:57

they were old. I thought they were

31:59

on. Cleric or. Am I don't

32:01

think they ever figured out the wings at

32:04

all and somebody like Seok on was just

32:06

feasting on every when they had because they

32:08

just for an athletic enough. And.

32:10

Then you could say will dame as a little hurt. Look.

32:13

Man, when you're training for super

32:15

expensive superstars and their past the

32:17

age of thirty two, thirty three,

32:19

thirty four films would fucking happens.

32:22

It's not like bad but said dame got

32:25

hurt. he's old. Is that bad

32:27

luck that James Harden such last night? She's

32:29

old. James Harden's gonna play well once a

32:31

week. This is what happens when guys get

32:34

into their mid thirties with exceptional Lebron James

32:36

who could play forty four minutes and altitude.

32:38

and Denver's game Five and. Of.

32:40

And his you know in your twenty one so

32:42

of put him to the side. But. For

32:45

the most part. Older. Players are up and

32:47

down. And. This is one of the reasons

32:49

I didn't like the Dame Trade that much for what they

32:51

gave up because of my keys. Maybe his moved in a

32:53

different point of his career? As. A

32:56

years yeah, he looks awesome uncertain.

32:58

Aids. But. When. You

33:00

think about legs. It's. Any

33:02

edwards the stage of the career that he's

33:04

at age twenty two. I don't

33:06

know what I'm getting from maybe August six

33:08

for seventeen six regime, but I know what

33:11

I'm getting from and athleticism. Intensity.

33:14

I'm going up and down and

33:16

durability. A He's gonna be in

33:18

every game. And that's

33:20

the difference when you start by guys in their

33:22

mid twenties versus a guide Danes it so I

33:25

feel like you think is as the as an

33:27

excuse that sweet cited for. It.

33:29

Doesn't feel like a coincidence that the

33:32

guys you roasted the bucks in this

33:34

game are hyperactive Tj Mcconnell hyper athletic,

33:36

Ob top and. Everyone who

33:38

was running full court, Everyone who's

33:40

attacking relentlessly. I. Think the fluke

33:42

as far as the bad luck is younis that

33:45

his him getting hurt is the part of it

33:47

that is unpredictable and. Maybe. Somewhat

33:49

rooted in had bad the bus or in

33:51

the regular season and how hard he had

33:53

to go all the time to try to

33:55

correct it. Feeds. they do

33:57

have this thing where they are so old and they're so slow

33:59

and This is always like a talking point

34:01

around the Steph Clay Warriors too, where obviously one

34:03

of the great shooting teams of all time because

34:05

of those two guys, but if you look elsewhere,

34:09

there really weren't a lot of great shooters on

34:11

those teams otherwise. And the Bucks

34:13

are kind of the same way, but with athleticism,

34:15

with Yannis, where he's on the floor, they're dynamic,

34:17

they're energetic, they have a lot of different ways

34:19

they can play. You take him

34:21

out, and it's three pretty old core players,

34:23

all of whom, I would say, showed up in

34:25

the series to the degrees that they could between

34:27

Dame and Chris Middleton and Brooke Lopez. They

34:30

did their best, but at that age,

34:33

you're running a little bit too much risk on guys who

34:35

could throw their back out with a sneeze. That's

34:37

kind of where your team is hanging at this point.

34:40

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that about Yannis, because yeah,

34:42

bad luck here at his cap. But

34:45

if you watch the Bucks all season, everything

34:47

he had to do for this team night after night,

34:49

and how hard he played, I called him a sociopath

34:51

that one played during the season because he's

34:54

just going all out. He's up there up

34:56

20 in fourth quarters, and he's

34:58

flying around like it's game seven. And

35:03

the more of those kind of miles you

35:05

put on during the six months that don't

35:07

matter, sometimes you can have bad luck. Doc

35:09

finishes, my guy

35:12

Doc, he finishes

35:14

19 and 23 on the Bucks. If

35:19

you told me before the year, here's what's going

35:21

to happen with the Bucks this season. Remember, the Bucks

35:23

were like one of the three favorites in the league.

35:25

Oh, yeah. And if there was

35:27

video of somebody saying like, here's what I think will

35:29

happen. Griffin gets

35:32

fired halfway through the season, even

35:35

though they have the third best record in

35:37

the East. Doc takes over, goes

35:39

under 500. Yannis

35:41

gets hurt right before the playoffs, doesn't play a

35:44

playoff game, and they lose to the Pacers in

35:46

round one. You'd been like, that's fucking crazy. What

35:48

do we want to bet? 100 to

35:50

one odds, 200 to one odds, 300 to one. I

35:53

think it's a weirder outcome than Phoenix. I think

35:55

it's a much weirder outcome than Lakers or Warriors

35:57

because you could have actually predicted.

36:00

that because those teams are old. This is how

36:02

Milwaukee season played out is the weirdest outcome

36:04

we had this year, I think. Is

36:07

there a weirder one for you? No,

36:09

they went down playing Danilo Gallinari, who's like

36:11

two years removed from being an NBA player.

36:17

Where was that? Blake Griffin. Blake Griffin's like, I'm

36:19

right here, guys. How's

36:21

that about him, Bob? Just the most docked shit

36:24

you can imagine. Like the number of players who

36:26

get in these games over the Bucks young guys.

36:28

Yeah. And as you're mapping their future, I think

36:30

there's lots of things you could do as far

36:32

as, you know, they're a

36:34

roster that just needed one more offseason replenishment to

36:36

get to a functional rotation to begin with. They

36:38

just had to carve out too much to make

36:40

the Dame trade work, to make the roster work.

36:43

They lost some guys to other teams. It

36:45

just kind of got away from them coming into this season.

36:47

And I thought they might fix that along the way. They

36:49

didn't, but they need like a

36:51

Peyton Watson as much as anybody. They need

36:53

a young guy that Doc will,

36:55

and I understand the paradox of

36:57

what I'm about to suggest. Yeah, he's not going to do it.

37:00

Someone he can maybe possibly hypothetically trust

37:02

and at least work through some mistakes.

37:04

That he'd rather trust Pat Beverly. Like

37:08

I trust Pat Beverly, who whipped a basketball at a

37:10

fans that I say the end of the game. Yeah.

37:13

Listen, I think they're in really bad shape. And

37:15

I feel the same way about the Lakers and

37:17

the Warriors from the sense of we

37:20

do this with the talks cycle and

37:22

you know, this is the ESPN shows and

37:24

it's like, can the Lakers turn around? What

37:26

are the Lakers have to do? You

37:29

can't think of it that way. You have to look at

37:31

the best teams in the league, the youth of those teams,

37:34

and how you measure your own team against

37:36

the ceiling of the best teams. And the

37:38

best teams are Boston and Denver, Minnesota and

37:41

Oklahoma City. Those are the teams that next

37:43

year will be in just as good

37:45

of a position as they are this year. And

37:47

if you don't have a chance with the roster

37:49

you have to swim in that pool, what

37:53

do you do? If you're Milwaukee, it's like, it's

37:56

going to be a real stretch for you to

37:58

go go jump from the the kiddie pool to

38:00

that pool, what's your move? And if

38:02

you don't have a move, maybe you blow it up because

38:05

you already won the title. Like maybe- That's

38:08

too hasty. Like they have Giannis. I

38:10

understand the skepticism, but if you are

38:12

the Bucks, your hope is that

38:15

it's Jason Tatum who pulls his calf and

38:18

not Giannis, right? Your hope is that it's

38:20

not Dame with the Surakilles, but Drew Holliday

38:22

or Al Horford, right? Like you're looking across

38:24

and saying maybe the bad luck won't be

38:26

ours next time. Maybe our roster

38:28

will be marginally enough better so we can get

38:30

through series like this. You're a year older though. You

38:32

are. James is a year older, Lopez is a year

38:34

older, Middleton's a year older, and Giannis is, and

38:37

he's superhuman, but that's,

38:40

I don't really know what the fixes are for them. There

38:42

aren't many picks. They're not going to have cap space.

38:45

So now you're shopping in the J Crowder aisle

38:47

again and it's like, oh, here's Kyle Lowry wants

38:50

to play for us. Hey,

38:52

good news. Tobias Harris will take

38:54

the mid-level and that's who you're

38:56

getting. So I just don't see the fix for them.

38:58

I think it's pretty grim. This

39:02

could have been Dame's chance to carry them for a round by

39:04

the way. Yeah. Like we

39:06

don't have Giannis. Get on my back

39:08

guys. I'm Dame lowered. One of the best 75 players

39:11

ever and didn't do it. I

39:13

mean, put up 28 on a bad, on a

39:15

Surakilles, I get it. Shrugging off Andrew Nemhard at

39:17

every opportunity. Like I'm just saying he didn't do

39:20

it. He didn't do it. I'm a

39:22

results guy, Rob. I'm a results guy. He didn't do

39:24

it. He had a chance. Yeah.

39:27

Speaking of chances, we have Orlando Cleveland tomorrow

39:29

night. We have Dallas Clippers. Do you want

39:32

to hear about my trip to Dallas Clippers?

39:34

Please. Very excited. Game

39:37

five. Game

39:39

five is always my favorite games of the series.

39:41

I always feel like they're super intense. I was

39:43

excited for the crowd. Wednesday night, seven o'clock. People

39:47

were out having little early dinners popping in.

39:49

The people were drinking real energy

39:51

in the stands. And

39:53

unfortunately, that energy didn't translate to the Clippers.

39:58

You guys talked about it on Ring around B.S. say,

40:00

but it was, you could tell with Hardin right

40:02

away. He didn't want to, he didn't want

40:04

to be there. Paul George,

40:06

they did some stuff to mess with them, but it

40:08

wasn't the greatest game for him either. And

40:12

Dallas, who now I've seen a couple times

40:14

in person, that

40:17

team's really locked in with each other. I

40:19

really like the chemistry they have. Luca's

40:22

a huge pain in the ass, right?

40:24

He just, he's talking to the refs after every

40:26

play. He just doesn't shut up. He

40:29

has to be for the refs the single most of morning before

40:31

in the week. He's, he doesn't score.

40:33

He's chirping. If there's a stoppage

40:35

on fouls, he's walking over and

40:37

yelling at whoever, like he's just

40:39

like this, but he's really intense.

40:41

And I gotta

40:43

say it's transferred to Kyrie. Like this

40:45

person at Kyrie is the most fun

40:48

Kyrie of all time. Kyrie came

40:50

out in that game and he's like,

40:52

I'm stopping James Hardin tonight and really went at

40:54

him. I don't think they like each other. And

40:56

when Adam went at him and Adam, he didn't really

40:58

have a good offensive game, but his energy and his

41:00

defense, uh, was, was

41:03

really, really good. The

41:05

interesting about that game, Rob Dallas,

41:07

I think was like three for 21

41:09

at one point from three. And they were

41:11

still up 12 and I was with my friend Rob

41:13

Stone and we're getting toward the half. And I was

41:16

like, they're going to win by 30 because

41:18

if any of those shots had got, this

41:20

game's already over. They just had, didn't hit

41:22

all their wide open threes. I

41:25

don't know what this means for game six, but

41:28

my feeling is Dallas is better. And the

41:31

only way the Clippers are going to be

41:33

able to stave this off is just another

41:35

crazy Hardin game with a crazy George game.

41:37

I don't see another path

41:40

for them, especially with the way Westbrook is playing.

41:43

Um, I don't, I don't really see anybody out

41:45

like they might get, maybe they get a crazy

41:47

norm pal game. I don't know. It's possible, but

41:50

I think Dallas has figured them out and I think they're

41:52

better and I think they're going to win game six. What's

41:55

your take? Even the Clippers best

41:57

stretches. There's been some

41:59

intancessence. three-point shooting. It's just it's a

42:01

variance kind of series from their side of it.

42:03

When the Clippers hit a ton of threes they're

42:05

in it, otherwise they

42:07

really have to scrap and claw because the

42:10

Mavericks will challenge guys like Russ in particular

42:12

and obviously if Zu's out there if there's

42:14

multiple non-shooters at the same time, there's

42:16

so much room for Dallas to sag in and clog

42:18

the paint and most importantly I think

42:21

swarm Paul George and Harden when they

42:23

get inside like that that defense is

42:25

starting to feel pretty ferocious in terms of

42:27

you know Derek Jones on the point of

42:29

attack with Paul George in particular but you've

42:32

got PJ Washington swiping and you got Daffodin

42:34

lively, I mean for a rookie having this

42:36

kind of rim protection like impact on a

42:38

series is an incredible feat. I

42:41

just think they have it together defensively and have

42:43

more like more levers to pull. They

42:45

have more options in terms of what they can do

42:47

to adapt to a series than this version of the

42:49

Clippers does. They get some good rim

42:51

runner stuff they can score points

42:54

even if they're not hitting threes which I

42:56

like. Yeah and which that's new

42:58

like during regular season before the trade they

43:00

lost almost every game in which they did

43:02

not hit a higher percentage of the threes

43:05

than their opponents did. That's

43:07

who they were for the first chunk of the season.

43:09

Think Kyrie got healthy, they made those trades to improve

43:12

the rotation, other guys kind of got back into

43:14

the lineup too in all fairness I mean they've

43:16

had injuries all year and then after

43:18

the deadline they found this incredible rhythm and

43:20

it was defensively of course like that's where

43:22

the greatest improvement was by the numbers but

43:24

also their offensive stability just feels so

43:27

much more reliable now. I'm

43:30

not apologizing for anything I ever said about

43:32

Kyrie. I

43:34

really like watching Kyrie and I'm glad

43:36

he's reached whatever point

43:39

in life that is in because

43:41

he's so much fucking fun to watch

43:43

in person play basketball. There's nobody like that

43:45

dude. When he gets the ball he's

43:48

the only guy in the league if he gets the

43:50

ball like on a fast break transition but there's two

43:53

guys back and you can see him

43:55

size it up and it'd be like I'm scoring

43:57

anyway. Yeah just goes in and does like his

43:59

weird Kyrie fucking and magician shit. He's,

44:03

and he really plays. I really

44:05

think he has something special with Luca. Like I

44:07

would not want to see those guys if I'm

44:09

okay. See, if I'm okay. See, I'm rooting for

44:12

the Clippers because you don't beat the Clippers. Don't,

44:14

they'll outwork them. So they're just,

44:16

you know, the Clippers will have these ebbs and flows.

44:18

Okay. See, it's the same every game basically. They'll have

44:21

like the one game in the series where they don't

44:23

miss threes, but I guarantee they're rooting for the Clippers

44:25

to come back. Oh, and I don't think they're going

44:27

to come back. I don't think

44:29

so. I don't think so either. Ultimately, the Clippers

44:31

are more predictable. And that's a weird thing to

44:33

say when obviously the Mavs funnel so much offense

44:36

through Luca and through Kyrie kind of secondarily, but

44:39

you know, zoomed out, that's predictable. Luca is going to

44:41

have the ball, but you zoom all the

44:43

way in. Luca has the ball. What move is he

44:45

going to make? What step is he going to sell

44:47

you with? What fake is he going to throw off

44:50

your entire defense? And Kyrie has the same thing. He's

44:52

so shifty. He's so clever, so creative. That's how he

44:54

gets through all those crowds and finishes the way that

44:56

he does to the point where you're right. He didn't

44:59

have an explosive like game

45:01

offensively, but the shots he hit were shots

45:03

that no one else in the team can make. And

45:05

that kind of opportunity is important for

45:07

kind of their general ecosystem, really. And

45:09

there's a swagger with them. One of those guys

45:12

is always out there. Yeah. So it feels

45:14

like their offense never dips. I thought they're going

45:16

to win last night. That was my big fandal

45:18

boost. I've hit nine fandal boosts in a row.

45:20

Oh, Tango included the next one today. I

45:23

really thought Dallas was going to win. I really thought they

45:25

were better and I didn't think the Paul George hard and

45:27

two games in a row thing could happen. That

45:30

said, you

45:33

can't roll out the Clippers just because they're too

45:35

unpredictable. I think Dallas is going to

45:37

win. I think they're better, but could the

45:39

Clippers sent 25 threes? God

45:42

only knows. Once a week, James

45:44

Harden lived up to

45:46

his name yesterday. You could see it

45:49

immediately. And the other thing that was weird, Westbrook

45:51

has just lost his, not

45:53

only his mojo, but almost it seems like

45:56

his mind in this last three games. He's

45:58

hitting the point, Rob, the worst point you can

46:01

hit as a basketball player when he has the ball and he's

46:03

wide open in a home game and the

46:05

crowd goes, no, don't know. You

46:07

hear like the no murmurs. They

46:10

don't want him to do anything. And

46:12

it's like, man, he's, I actually think he's unplayable

46:14

now. And if I were them, I

46:16

would do more Zubats. I would try to pound that

46:18

pound the Mavericks inside the Zubats, try to get the

46:20

big guys and foul trouble. And

46:22

I would never double Luca ever would

46:24

be my other advice. I mean,

46:26

double Luca, it's like you just, you can't just let

46:29

him get 40. It's easier

46:31

said than done, I feel like, but you know,

46:33

it's a similar philosophy to what the Knicks just

46:35

had to navigate with Joel. It's like an injured

46:37

player. And it's a question of how much you

46:39

want to force them in Lucas case

46:42

to exert that knee, where he's already

46:44

feeling some stress with it. He's already pretty sensitive with

46:46

it. Having an incredible series

46:49

regardless of that, but do you want to just

46:51

see him push it and push it and push

46:53

it just to see what happens and not let

46:55

all these other guys get off the trade off

46:57

is, it's so easy to talk yourself into the

46:59

idea of we're going to live and die with

47:01

Derek Jones, Jr. Threes and Maxie. Like that's an

47:03

understandable defensive game plan, but then Maxie Kleba

47:06

is our greatest living shooter now. So maybe you need to

47:08

adjust it. I got

47:10

to say, I think Luca seems fun. Like

47:13

I know they're like, yeah, his knees banged up. It's

47:15

like, he was put, you talked about it on the

47:17

show today. He was pushing the ball with real pace

47:19

and they, they'd really tried to, I

47:21

think push the pace partly because the hard end and

47:23

partly just to change it up. But it worked. The

47:26

other one we have tomorrow is Orlando Cleveland

47:28

game six. I

47:30

call Cleveland three faces of Cleveland. They just, there's

47:32

three different faces. I don't know what face they're

47:35

going to wear. What are the

47:37

three faces? Well, there's the face where Jared Allen

47:40

doesn't play and Mobley goes to center and I'm

47:42

like, my stocks just skyrocketing. Cause that one's pretty

47:44

good. Even Mobley should play and all of a

47:46

sudden they look great. Um,

47:48

there's the no Garland,

47:50

just it's Bob. It's a Mitchell's team

47:54

calves where it's like, Oh, this is kind

47:56

of like the Utah situation for him. And

47:58

this looks like something. And

48:00

then there's the other version where everybody's

48:02

playing and nobody seems that

48:04

happy. Yeah. And

48:07

I think that's where we're getting tomorrow night of Jared Allen

48:09

Plays. I think Orlando is going to win tomorrow night. I

48:11

think Orlando is a really good home team. And

48:16

this feels like one of these two has to go seven

48:18

because of the rule. We have to

48:20

have a seven game series in round one. Gotta have it. This

48:22

would be my pick. What about you? I

48:25

would love it. And it does feel

48:27

like temperamentally the kind of series where just

48:29

home teams win every time. That's

48:31

just kind of how the balance of the series has swung

48:33

for the most part. I agree

48:35

with you that the face with Evan Mobley

48:37

at the five is the most handsome of

48:39

the Cavaliers faces. That's the one I

48:41

would love to see personally. It's the one that I'm

48:44

so invested, I'm so leveraged in Evan

48:46

Mobley's stock at this point that after

48:48

he had an incredible game saving close,

48:51

I couldn't even gloat about it.

48:53

I just had to wait for people to come crawling

48:55

back to me and gloat in response. That's

48:58

where I'm at with this experiment. Anything

49:01

we can do for me personally to let

49:03

Evan Mobley shine, I'm in favor of. And

49:05

honestly, it seems like in a lot of

49:07

cases, and specifically in this matchup, they

49:09

are better suited playing with a

49:12

little more space, with a little more maneuverability. And

49:14

from the sounds of some of the interview quotes

49:16

that are coming out of the Cavaliers, I think

49:18

Donovan Mitchell agrees with us. Whoa,

49:21

so if he stays, by

49:23

the way, Jared Allen will have real trade value if

49:25

that's how they decide to go. Really

49:27

good player. Really good player and a good contract.

49:30

And there's teams that need size, so

49:32

maybe that's how this ends. I think Mobley's a five.

49:36

That's how I've justified my untenable

49:39

stock position in him. When

49:41

he's at the five, this is all going to pay off. Orlando

49:45

has at home,

49:48

they get stuff from their bench. They

49:52

get scoring they don't normally get. It's

49:54

not all on Paolo's shoulders, but Paolo

49:56

has been, I mean, he was so good in

49:58

game five. He's one of the young

50:00

guys that, it's him and Ant,

50:03

or just kinda, and Maxie in game

50:05

five, maybe not tonight, but my

50:08

hope would be not to put too many miles

50:10

on Palo in game six, try to get the

50:12

group effort, and then he's the one

50:14

that's gonna have to win game seven. It's gonna have to

50:16

be a 40 point, you know,

50:18

12 rebound, nine assist type awesome game, I

50:20

think, for them to win in Cleveland, because

50:22

I don't trust any other score they have.

50:25

I mean, I trust Franz, you know. On the

50:28

road in a game seven? He's not

50:30

shooting, he's not, he's going to the basket.

50:32

Yes, that is true, but that's kinda where I prefer

50:35

him, is going to the basket for the most part.

50:37

I do think both of those guys have gotten better

50:39

over the course of the series at toning

50:41

down some of the more

50:44

flustered decision making, like, you

50:46

know, possessions that are going nowhere without the space,

50:48

like, Palo is learning how to navigate it, and

50:51

very common learning curve for young stars

50:53

in his position. Everything, as far as

50:55

his path through this series, has

50:57

felt about right, you know, some

51:00

early struggles, trying to run through the wall, and then over

51:02

the course of it, you can see the gears turning, and

51:04

you can see him trying to solve everything that's in front

51:06

of him, whether it's a big lineup or a small one.

51:09

He has a lot of tools at his disposal, and I

51:11

think what's most exciting about the magic is, he can do

51:13

all this right now, and he's gonna be

51:15

able to do more when he's playing with, I

51:18

would say in particular, some guards who make his

51:20

life easier, and right now, I love Jaylen Suggs,

51:22

it's not really what he does out there. He

51:24

does a lot of other things, especially defensively, but

51:26

they need some facilitation at some point, and they may

51:29

be able to get through this series without it, but

51:31

that's kinda next on the agenda. Well,

51:33

as Mike Lombardi would say, sometimes you're one

51:35

injury away, and Gary Harris got hurt, and

51:38

that might've been one of the best things

51:40

that happened in the magic, because it opened

51:42

some minutes for some other people.

51:44

I was thinking, I don't know

51:46

why, but I feel like Orlando's gonna win this series, and

51:50

it's not rational. Yeah.

51:54

I think they're gonna win game six, and I don't

51:56

believe in that. I could see that Cleveland team either

51:58

winning by 20 or losing. by two

52:00

at home. But I was thinking

52:03

if it does end up being Orlando,

52:05

Boston in round two, that's another stomach

52:07

punch for the Philly fans. False

52:10

versus Tatum. They're

52:13

like, really? Now

52:16

we gotta watch this? What if False becomes one

52:18

of the heroes in the last two games? Oh,

52:20

wow. On top of everything else. That'd be sensational.

52:22

Look, I would love to see it. Minnesota,

52:26

Denver, do you have a pick? Denver.

52:29

I would say Denver, six. I

52:37

think Denver, I'm actually

52:39

probably not betting the series. You're

52:42

scared on it. I

52:44

want to watch a game. If

52:47

you were going to create a team in a lab to beat

52:49

Denver, a realistic team, I

52:51

think it would be Minnesota the way Edwards

52:53

is playing. Yeah. Because you'd think size

52:56

to throw a yokage, size

52:59

to throw a Murray. Yeah. That's

53:01

the big one. Size and

53:03

length. And

53:06

it's just, but it comes down to

53:08

the late game stuff with them. And

53:11

how ready is Edwards? It's

53:14

one of those things where it's like, you know what?

53:16

Minnesota's going to win. I bet on Minnesota. And then

53:18

you're in these last two minutes of games, and

53:21

there's yokage on one end, just doing fucking

53:23

yokage stuff. And then the other

53:25

end, I have 22 year old Anthony Edwards. And it's

53:27

like, all right, we're not playing Phoenix anymore. We're playing

53:29

the defending champs. And you got,

53:32

what was I thinking? He's great. He's not

53:34

ready for this. But then there's the

53:36

flip side of this where maybe he is

53:38

ready for this. He's passed every test so far.

53:40

Like the Suns, every game, I thought his decision

53:42

making was pretty much on point. Yeah.

53:45

So there's a

53:47

chance these are the two best teams. Yes.

53:50

Because if Boston's not going to have Porzingis

53:52

here for three, four weeks, I

53:56

don't know. How would you rank Minnesota, Denver, Boston

53:58

right now? No Porzingis. Are we just

54:00

boxing OKC out of this conversation? We

54:02

don't have to. Based

54:06

on how they played in the playoffs, I

54:08

think... See, this is

54:11

the thing, Denver is almost better on

54:13

paper than they are as far as their

54:15

actual playoff performance right now. They have not

54:17

covered themselves in glory. They had incredible clutch

54:19

moments. They had incredible stretches. I

54:22

still think they're the best team overall, but they haven't

54:24

quite played like it. I

54:26

think Minnesota has played as well as anybody

54:28

in the postseason has. So

54:30

it just depends on how you want to weight those.

54:33

Or Minnesota got to play a team partly built around

54:35

Bradley Beal and Yusef Nurkic. Also true. And

54:37

no bench guys at all. It's

54:40

a certain kind of advantage for sure, but to

54:42

be honest, Minnesota is going to have a bench advantage

54:44

against a lot of these teams, Denver included. They

54:46

just have more that they can plug into the lineup

54:48

and it's going to be a real test of how

54:51

much Murray can stretch and how much Jokic's stamina,

54:53

which is very impressive, can stretch in some of

54:55

these games. They're going to have to play huge

54:57

minutes because you can just imagine

55:00

Reggie Jackson being thrown into the fire and what

55:02

that looks like in some of these games. Right.

55:06

The Chris Finch, Torin Patel

55:08

thing. Does that do anything for you for

55:11

this series? It doesn't look hard.

55:13

Is that going to be the coach with the fucking Torin Patel? Yes.

55:17

We've seen coaches struggle to get timeouts

55:19

fully mobile. And imagine if he's either

55:21

in some kind of protected throne situation

55:24

or if he's out there on crutches.

55:26

I don't know what all the computations

55:28

are. Oh, Rascal? Yeah,

55:30

yeah. Kick Chris Finch

55:32

or Rascal. Is he in a

55:35

wheelchair? There was

55:37

this rumor going around that he was actually going to

55:39

be in a luxury box texting instructions that I don't

55:41

believe. But it's

55:43

just not ideal. It's not

55:46

ideal. And they're going up and

55:48

down the sidelines, they're yelling at Rascal. It does

55:50

feel like a slight disadvantage. Well, especially the kind

55:52

of team we're talking about, which is one in

55:54

which Anthony Edwards has been so impressive. But

55:57

we are going to wring our hands a little bit in

55:59

those clutch... moments as far as what

56:01

kind of decisions he's going to be making on the

56:03

floor and what kind of chances he's going to be

56:05

taking. And Chris Finch is kind of the counter bounce

56:08

to that in some sense. He lets Ant play, but

56:10

he also kind of settles him down sometimes. Well,

56:13

the other thing with Ant, and this is the greatest thing

56:15

about him. He really thinks

56:17

he's the best player in the league and he

56:19

wants it so badly. This could be a, he

56:21

wants it too badly. Oh yeah. He

56:24

wants it. He wanted it too badly series

56:27

and then he'll learn everything for

56:29

next year. Or like you watch Conley, I

56:32

watched that, uh, he was on

56:34

the Barkley show yesterday. Yeah. Cause he won

56:36

the year. Team mate of

56:38

the year. I know I heard the start of your show. And

56:41

who did barrier give the team mate of the year? You gave

56:43

it to Watts over me. I gave it to Watts. I thought

56:45

that was bullshit. I didn't even get a vote. Yeah, that was

56:47

ridiculous. Um, but Conley has

56:49

that thing. They ask him about Edwards

56:51

and he's just like, yo

56:54

man, he's, he's like a young Michael Jordan and

56:56

just like goes on this. He's

56:58

like, you don't understand how good this guy is.

57:00

He was doing those quotes. And as you know,

57:03

I love quote. I love teammate on teammate quotes.

57:05

It's kind of my jam. How did you

57:08

feel about the ants checking cat at the

57:10

podium quote, by the way? So like, I

57:12

fucking love this. You got to stop fucking

57:14

fouling situation. I loved it. I love all

57:16

this stuff. And I just

57:18

think, I think the team genuinely

57:21

believes this guy is as great

57:23

as everyone else in the league. And that's the feeling

57:26

I get with Dallas too. Like they really believe in

57:28

Luca. They think he's the best player in the league.

57:30

Denver knows Yocage is the best player in the

57:32

league. It's part of my

57:34

fear with, with Boston is like, nobody,

57:38

nobody in Boston is like, Tatum's the best player in

57:40

the league. They're like, we have the best team in

57:42

the league. Like they, it's not a specific player. All

57:44

right. So you have, you have Denver one,

57:48

Minnesota two, you have OKC above

57:50

or below. No, Porzingis Boston. I

57:54

I'll put them below out of, out of respect

57:56

for. Boston's level

57:58

of execution still. that at

58:00

some point OKC is going to run into either

58:03

the size disadvantage that's going to hurt them or

58:05

the inexperienced disadvantage that's going to hurt them. So

58:07

I do think they're at least

58:09

worth noting though. I think it's much closer than a

58:11

top three and then OKC is off to the side.

58:13

I think they're very much in that mix. OKC

58:16

Dallas, which feels like

58:18

that can happen and probably will happen, is

58:22

going to be an awesome series. Like

58:24

awesome. And that could be, we

58:26

might have to have the party and send out

58:29

the e-vite for the Jaylen Williams breakout party. Oh

58:31

yeah. If they beat them, it's going to be

58:33

because of what he does on

58:35

both ends and how he defends him and Lou

58:37

Dordon Luca and just them tag

58:39

teaming him and trying to make

58:41

him a little bit mortal. But I like that

58:43

matchup for them. I actually think I would pick

58:45

them in that series. I think so too. Yeah.

58:47

And that's the kind of work, obviously Dallas has

58:49

a lot of momentum with the way they finish

58:51

the regular season and some of these like games

58:54

are very inspiring in terms of their first round

58:56

series. I don't really understand the

58:58

OKC's like skepticism in general. That's a good

59:00

ass team that really just

59:02

laid the smack down on the Pelicans

59:04

in a lot of ways tactically speaking.

59:06

Like left New Orleans without anything

59:09

to do. And that's because of how

59:11

versatile the Thunder can be. It's

59:13

a great point because the first game, they

59:15

seemed really close even without Zion. It was

59:17

a nice up and down battle. And by

59:19

game three, OKC had solved them. And SGA

59:22

had solved all the perimeter guys

59:24

in New Orleans. And yeah, I'm with you.

59:27

I'm not ready to... I

59:29

want to see them do it against the team with a really

59:31

good player. The fact that the guys played New Orleans without Zion,

59:34

I probably underestimated because I thought New Orleans

59:36

was a possible upset pick. There's

59:38

something too though about the, you know, you brought like

59:41

the best player in the league kind of conversation, whether

59:43

it's guys like Ant who believe that about themselves or

59:45

Luca who, you know, the teammates and he believes that

59:47

about himself. It's kind of similar

59:49

to something we were talking about in group chat, which

59:51

is the face of the league conversation. Yeah. To

59:54

me, if you have to ask, you're

59:57

probably not it. And like Tatum is kind

59:59

of in that group. like you're just not it.

1:00:01

And I think what's impressive about guys

1:00:03

like Luca, guys like Shay, and

1:00:06

just a great example, when Ant was

1:00:08

kind of first emerging, you could sense a

1:00:10

bit of tension between him and towns as

1:00:12

to what the identity and what the pecking

1:00:14

order of the team was going to be. I don't

1:00:17

really sense any of that anymore. And that's

1:00:19

because you don't really have to ask with

1:00:21

Ants. Like it's abundantly clear that he is

1:00:23

that guy. And Luca is that guy and

1:00:26

Shay is that guy. And Tatum is a

1:00:28

great leader and the best player on a

1:00:30

great team. But he's not that guy. Yeah.

1:00:32

Well, they lucked out because this Porzingis injury

1:00:35

happens during a year

1:00:37

where the Eastern Conference is just completely decimated.

1:00:39

You would have thought they were the LeBron

1:00:41

Cavs mid 2010s team with all the injury

1:00:44

luck they got. It's

1:00:46

sitting there for Ant. And as we

1:00:49

head into the weekend, you

1:00:52

beat Denver. That's

1:00:55

the official rival. For sure. They

1:00:57

probably make the finals if they beat Denver, put

1:01:00

them in the finals. There's face of

1:01:02

the league potential and then we're going to Team

1:01:05

USA in Paris in July. And there's

1:01:07

a scenario here where

1:01:10

he just starts checking off boxes and all

1:01:12

of a sudden is the biggest star in

1:01:14

the league. And I don't think

1:01:16

anyone else in the playoffs can say that. I

1:01:19

mean, SGA, if he runs the slate and

1:01:21

wins the title, it's

1:01:24

maybe a conversation, but he doesn't have the charisma

1:01:26

that Ant has. I mean, nobody has the charisma.

1:01:28

Yes. It would be more of a collective thing.

1:01:30

Like, oh my God, the Thunder are here even

1:01:33

sooner than we thought. And of course, Shea would

1:01:35

be a part of that. But I think it

1:01:37

would be like the credit and the

1:01:39

praise would be a little bit more diverse. Preston

1:01:42

would be like, they've won the title and he has 29

1:01:45

first. He'd be like the guy in Monopoly who's

1:01:47

just paying people to roll the dice for him.

1:01:50

He's like, hey, if you

1:01:52

make my pick, I'll give you a second rounder

1:01:54

in 2029. And if you go get

1:01:57

me a Diet Coke, he's just pawning everybody. So

1:02:00

we both have we both have denver. Yes

1:02:03

Minus 205 i'm fandula i'm gonna try to

1:02:05

figure out some sort of uh Serious

1:02:09

boost it does feel like it if

1:02:11

I had gone to my head, I would do denver.

1:02:13

Okay, see But I want

1:02:15

to see if dallas closes out the clippers in

1:02:17

a certain way It might make me rethink the

1:02:19

okay. See thing. I want to see dallas come

1:02:21

out And basically chop their

1:02:23

heads off like nothing left. There's

1:02:26

no chance you guys are coming back We are ruining

1:02:28

you guys. We're gonna make paul george want to get

1:02:30

the fuck out here and go to the easter conference

1:02:33

And do one of those things. All right, rob

1:02:35

bahoney Thank you for staying up

1:02:37

late with us live on

1:02:39

youtube Dot com slash bill

1:02:42

simmons. Uh, you can hear this podcast on

1:02:44

the bill simmons podcast You can listen to

1:02:46

rob on the wringer ambia show and also

1:02:48

you can read you on the wringer.com any

1:02:51

pieces coming Yeah, I just had

1:02:53

one this week about kind of the state of point guards

1:02:55

in general. That was awesome We've got art for that too.

1:02:57

That was a really fun read incredible work by the art

1:02:59

team and yeah more features to come We got we're in

1:03:01

playoff mode right now. So there's some good stuff in the

1:03:03

pipeline. Great. Good to see you. Thanks for staying

1:03:06

up. Thanks, bill This

1:03:11

episode is supported by state farm If

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1:03:54

right. I've been Seattle with eddie and jeff. We're supposed to do

1:03:56

this in 2020 covet intervened. We did

1:03:58

a pot on the phone phone, Wi-Fi

1:04:01

was bad all the way around. I

1:04:03

wasn't totally happy with it. It was great to talk to you

1:04:05

guys, but we're doing this correctly. Throwing

1:04:07

away the other podcasts. We're just

1:04:09

starting from scratch, but the same thing, 2020

1:04:12

that we have now, new

1:04:14

album, some new energy.

1:04:16

You guys go to Malibu to,

1:04:18

uh, to record this. It's like Jeff was saying it

1:04:20

was like the old days. You guys were trapped together

1:04:23

and just, just had

1:04:25

to come up with riffs and music. So

1:04:28

what happened? Well,

1:04:31

I mean, Ed, Ed was making a record with

1:04:33

Andrew and kind of mid recording

1:04:39

thought that we should be there and

1:04:41

to experience what he was experiencing. And I

1:04:44

mean, it kind of was out of the blue. I remember I was like,

1:04:46

it was like middle of the summer. I was like, Montana

1:04:48

having a great time. You're like,

1:04:50

well, I gotta go to LA for a week. And, but

1:04:53

you know, anytime you get

1:04:55

a call to record, you got, it's like, you

1:04:57

gotta do it. And, and,

1:05:00

uh, there was really no plan. There was no

1:05:03

plan. So we didn't know what we didn't know

1:05:05

what we were headed into. Like, I remember Googling

1:05:07

Andrew Watt and going like, who, like, who is

1:05:09

this guy? And so, um, so

1:05:12

it's almost like a relationship you guys needed. Need

1:05:15

to just spruce it up. Just

1:05:18

get, get more new location. Now the band, just

1:05:20

go new location, new energy. Well,

1:05:24

you know, it was a different way of recording with

1:05:26

this guy, Andrew Watt, and, and

1:05:28

he'd always kind of, you

1:05:30

know, come to visit the group on tour. We just

1:05:32

know him as this kind of young musician

1:05:35

cat. It seemed nice enough. And

1:05:38

then, um, and then he

1:05:40

did some records with like Ozzy

1:05:42

and then he did this record with Morrissey and

1:05:44

then he was a friend of the Chili Peppers

1:05:46

and, you know,

1:05:48

to be honest, I

1:05:50

think, you know, I made a,

1:05:52

uh, the first time I ever really recorded on

1:05:54

my own was, uh, I

1:05:58

Guess into the Wild. So That was a soundtrack. Yeah,

1:06:00

could have played the instruments myself

1:06:03

and and then the next was

1:06:05

ukulele and said those things are

1:06:07

very non threatening to the group

1:06:09

but. You. Know be and

1:06:12

down their nose and writing. finding

1:06:14

myself writing songs and on language.

1:06:16

Chad Smith like actual other musicians

1:06:18

like Aetna, Sports and. Year.

1:06:20

Is good guy. he likes Detroit but

1:06:22

also the history of that. I.

1:06:25

Liked it at if I'm

1:06:28

Under.laws are an underdog on

1:06:30

but. But.

1:06:33

I I've felt like this is could get

1:06:35

a little sensitive and and I don't need

1:06:37

problems with. The. In the guys, it's

1:06:39

a lesson out of the ones on. Com

1:06:42

check this out because when. It

1:06:45

might be an acquired taste, but. See

1:06:48

if you like it, get the results that

1:06:50

we were getting. And.

1:06:52

And the speed at which we recording

1:06:54

in the The Solicitor yeah. It's.

1:06:57

Felt like it could be

1:06:59

a positive pass. It with.

1:07:02

The ban. Was. Willing they might

1:07:04

want to jump on that train. The

1:07:07

first right from the. First. Day

1:07:09

we are getting. You know, Songs.

1:07:12

With with. Power and songs

1:07:14

that sounded great. It loud volume and

1:07:16

we were all playing together. I mean,

1:07:18

we're playing together in a room. Teenaged.

1:07:21

About this food. With. A.

1:07:24

Mix Board and a drum kit. And

1:07:27

Nino. Keyboards over there. I

1:07:29

mean, we were about as tight as we are

1:07:31

now. literally bumping I was a stone and a

1:07:33

kick drum. Like. Two feet, Try

1:07:36

me suppose. ninety ninety when you when

1:07:38

you came from. From. San

1:07:40

Diego. The gum after they rely game

1:07:42

electors has them. I let's go and

1:07:44

then you guys just made a bunch

1:07:46

of songs together but is pretty similar

1:07:48

right? You province and crappy house in

1:07:50

Seattle know as a basement about the

1:07:52

sensor not that different, another in right.

1:07:55

Where. Was that the. Bell tower

1:07:58

second though. basement

1:08:00

of an old art gallery called gallery

1:08:02

of potato head and then there was

1:08:04

a what was the name of the pool hall? Pool

1:08:11

hall 211 it was it was right out of Jackie

1:08:15

Gleason and yeah it

1:08:17

was right out of that. So you guys

1:08:19

you barely know each other you get

1:08:22

thrown in together and you

1:08:24

have a couple demos they have some riffs you

1:08:26

probably wrote some stuff with with your side and

1:08:28

then you just kind of

1:08:30

see if it works is it like is it

1:08:33

like the longest date ever what is it like

1:08:35

like what do you remember it is we're talking

1:08:37

this is 34 years ago what do you remember

1:08:39

from that you know the interesting thing is that

1:08:41

there was an interview recently that

1:08:43

I read that where you were talking about how

1:08:46

like Stone and I were talking to Dave

1:08:48

cruising a lot about about the group and

1:08:51

like this part should be faster or whatever

1:08:53

but how we weren't I

1:08:55

mean I don't think we were communicating super well

1:08:57

and I think I think and I think partly

1:09:00

because I do partly like partly

1:09:03

because we didn't know Ed I think we

1:09:05

were being probably extra sensitive to like just

1:09:07

letting him do his thing and you

1:09:10

know not wanting to get in the way but I

1:09:12

mean you know the story is that he

1:09:14

came up for a week we had this crazy

1:09:17

week like four or five days rehearsal went in

1:09:19

the studio for a whole day recorded the six

1:09:21

or seven tunes that we had played

1:09:24

a show I can't believe you

1:09:26

played a show like five days after

1:09:28

we were first together and then

1:09:31

went and saw the Bulls and the Sonics at

1:09:33

the Kingdom the exhibition on

1:09:35

the seventh day with the guy from KSW and

1:09:37

then he got on a plane and left and

1:09:39

it was kind of there was kind of no

1:09:41

time for my midnight shift well then

1:09:43

you went back I work but there was a how'd

1:09:45

you leave it were you like hey man that was

1:09:47

great kind of I had a

1:09:50

tape if I didn't have

1:09:52

the cassette tape from the day in the studio

1:09:54

yeah I probably wouldn't have it

1:09:57

wouldn't have been real After

1:10:01

Andy died, you were probably wondering,

1:10:03

am I even going to be in a

1:10:05

band again? Yeah, man.

1:10:10

I didn't know. I

1:10:12

felt like my chance,

1:10:14

our chance was done. I

1:10:20

was actively looking to go back to school. I went

1:10:22

up to Bellingham and visited

1:10:25

our department thinking, I think maybe

1:10:27

that's what I'm going to end up doing. I just quit

1:10:29

my job a month before that. I

1:10:35

didn't have any money in the bank. I

1:10:37

didn't have a car, didn't have insurance, didn't

1:10:40

have a safety net

1:10:43

really. It was only over

1:10:45

the course of the summer promoting the

1:10:48

Mother Love Bone record with Stone. I heard he

1:10:51

was playing a little bit with Mike. Then

1:10:56

Mike started saying, you should come over. I said,

1:10:58

I don't know if I want to play with

1:11:01

Stone anymore. Stone was probably thinking, I don't know

1:11:03

if I want to play Jeff anymore. Stone

1:11:07

hit the ground running and wrote

1:11:09

some songs. Eventually,

1:11:14

we went in with Matt Cameron and recorded

1:11:16

those six or seven songs. That's the tape that

1:11:18

Ed got. He wrote three

1:11:21

songs too, sent back. How

1:11:23

aware of you were of you

1:11:25

were, I can't speak, how

1:11:28

aware of you. I know

1:11:30

the question. Why so can I speak? Did you know

1:11:32

Andy? Do you aware of his music? Oh

1:11:35

Andy, yeah, the band.

1:11:37

To be honest, I'd

1:11:40

come across Green River, Soundgarden,

1:11:42

Mudhoney. I had a

1:11:44

little group in San Diego that we got

1:11:47

to open for him in a tiny club called

1:11:49

The Spirit. I think that was just because I

1:11:51

made the pliers and passed them out. But

1:11:57

Mother Love Bone, it wasn't something that I

1:11:59

wanted to do. It didn't

1:12:01

I wasn't on my radar for their

1:12:03

whatever reason, so. On.

1:12:06

And I hadn't listened to it

1:12:08

before. You know I will. I

1:12:10

Target. So I was with Jack

1:12:12

Irons because I'm I met him.

1:12:15

He was playing drums. Which.

1:12:17

Are stronger. An earthquake?

1:12:19

Whether to or yeah. And he was

1:12:21

only when it came to sound check

1:12:23

that day I sounds her, i work.

1:12:25

For. Free at these clubs. This one.

1:12:29

And I'm and then had a real

1:12:31

job midnight shift. Ah, So

1:12:34

you'd work for free but then you'd get go to

1:12:36

like a sound check are you in a you'd have

1:12:38

gear and and get to be around and. See

1:12:41

people that were. It wasn't a

1:12:43

great. Club.

1:12:46

Ah but have a our however it it it

1:12:48

it was either kind of people on their way

1:12:50

and for people on the way a it was.

1:12:53

You know it could be some saki.

1:12:56

Band. Or Mtv bad or it

1:12:58

could be and okay Mtv ban

1:13:00

like the Godfather reserve side that

1:13:02

that had can a one hit

1:13:04

or it might be. Oh

1:13:06

Re Two Hearts! Or.

1:13:09

(chuck Berry) Lauer on, and so

1:13:11

sounds X, I gonna live for

1:13:13

the sounds excellent, I'm so deftly

1:13:15

before them the real so anyways,

1:13:17

but. But. As

1:13:19

predicts over the summer sounds ipad Jack was you

1:13:21

know I gotta show up. Fandom.

1:13:24

Which is had a conversation and talked about chili

1:13:26

peppers and whole thing in the we ended up

1:13:29

living am sick of than the ball components of

1:13:31

this year we had I done. I ended up.

1:13:34

Practicing in a group. That.

1:13:37

We're kind of more Basin Los Angeles

1:13:39

so I'd go on the weekends jack

1:13:41

and only basketball on Fridays when I'd

1:13:43

come up and I burst with the

1:13:45

group for dessert and than. Toes.

1:13:48

I don't game. For. Around

1:13:50

and it's it's an ugly shot by

1:13:52

the go, then that like a competitive

1:13:55

with ebay players ethnic at work nights

1:13:57

in Edie Edie Who's this comparison? there.

1:14:00

Maybe. Pat Best. Had that's

1:14:03

sugary agitator. Attack

1:14:05

over there is enough. That's wow so

1:14:07

I've written. that is what was your

1:14:09

gave you bastard. Like.

1:14:13

Was. Quizzed his best bargain.

1:14:15

Zoom bust more doppelgangers. Pack.

1:14:18

On it and maybe has also sooner.

1:14:20

Okay, you can hit. Yeah, you can

1:14:22

do trees like. Nobody's.

1:14:24

Business but Eddie was super shy. When.

1:14:27

You're first thing now, the may and then

1:14:29

eventually. Became eventually work.

1:14:31

And intervention or clay mask laws blossomed

1:14:33

out. Know

1:14:36

I got this one handed shot because

1:14:38

those to practice after. I think we

1:14:41

told the story on the last alice

1:14:43

of the tell it again August so

1:14:45

I'm a scary this this walkman run

1:14:47

s and and then and I'd after

1:14:50

the minnow usually don't go to the

1:14:52

this little. Part. Of

1:14:54

from my little apartment and so I

1:14:56

would decide play in our mother's milk

1:14:58

been one of the main tapes. Owes

1:15:00

us into the time to version. And.

1:15:05

And always playing. so I do. I

1:15:07

could use my left hand. Them Holden.

1:15:10

Said. That crisis is all one

1:15:12

hand, but I needed music in I

1:15:14

guess. everything. new, music, surfing. I want

1:15:16

to music everything I wanted. Music. But

1:15:20

any was the very reason I tell you that story

1:15:23

cause and we ended up. Probably

1:15:25

three years from that time when I

1:15:27

was doing that. Three years later. I'm

1:15:30

Amber. I think we're in Cleveland. Can

1:15:33

have a of there was a ballroom but

1:15:35

on the other and we're opening for the

1:15:37

peppers. Yeah. And.

1:15:40

And the other in the ballroom that was like

1:15:42

this basketball hoop. So. We gotta.

1:15:45

We. Gotta come balls and were soon!

1:15:47

And the chili peppers were. Sound.

1:15:50

Checking. The same songs

1:15:52

that I've been listening to. And

1:15:55

now it was. Like. What

1:15:57

a dream to go from. holding on to that yang

1:15:59

with the headphones. Now. It's.

1:16:02

Them as you plan to live

1:16:04

were playing basketball. And.

1:16:06

I could use both hands. See, this is why

1:16:08

we're basically redoing the twenty twenty part because when

1:16:10

that we have, the story of video is way

1:16:13

better. There. Was

1:16:15

a thing one of the documentaries is about. As.

1:16:18

When he early says. Mrs.

1:16:21

May be Vancouver were not. Somebody.

1:16:24

somebody is getting pulled out from the audience and

1:16:27

at he got bad and. In.

1:16:30

Your stage presence was basically born in

1:16:32

the other guys baron like have. Gone

1:16:35

on here and. You. Just kind

1:16:37

of figured something out. Do member that. You

1:16:41

know, I'd you know back in the day.

1:16:44

I'm. You

1:16:47

know, some places. He

1:16:50

weren't. You know you'd have security.

1:16:53

The. Didn't know what.

1:16:56

Behavior to expect and what the

1:16:58

protocol was for a either a

1:17:01

punk show or are shows were

1:17:03

pretty active. Yeah, and crowd surfing

1:17:05

and stage diving and all these

1:17:07

things. And and they might not

1:17:10

have ever seen it before, they

1:17:12

might not have And their initial

1:17:14

reaction was for you fear feet,

1:17:16

These people are of birthed. You

1:17:19

know that's not happening on bread,

1:17:21

our club or something like that

1:17:23

and so you'd have to those.

1:17:25

A little bit a life guarding you know? So.

1:17:30

You. Know I don't feel like I was. Super.

1:17:33

Angrier Aggro is more protecting.

1:17:36

And we all and we I had

1:17:38

experiences like as fans and nose at

1:17:40

those big bigger punk rock shows where

1:17:42

yeah the promoter would hire like the

1:17:45

college football guys or whatever and they

1:17:47

just beat the shit out of the.

1:17:50

Kids act, you know gonna stager were coming

1:17:52

of his barricade or whatever. And

1:17:55

so we will. You know with mouse. Yeah.

1:17:57

And so to civilian to be intimate. Position

1:18:00

to be to have a

1:18:02

little bit of say and

1:18:04

I'm. In. I'm I'm I'm

1:18:06

pretty. I'm. Really proud of the

1:18:08

way he had a bad way the we handle it.

1:18:11

It is a band like. That.

1:18:13

I think we sort of changed. You.

1:18:16

Know. How

1:18:19

how about you know how that was? Handling security

1:18:21

is really different now than it was an when

1:18:23

did you feel. Like. You'd seen on

1:18:25

your energy in the right way as the lead of the

1:18:27

band. As the performer, I mean we

1:18:29

don't have to go Khawarij later when you're. Not

1:18:32

wearing. My

1:18:35

lab and and where are you get the

1:18:37

hang of things? The Sheriff. Oh.

1:18:40

That part of it. While

1:18:42

that I mean hours later, that was probably like ninety

1:18:44

two. rich. And

1:18:47

know I'm hanging on your every word.

1:18:49

that. Does

1:18:52

additionally. He

1:18:54

now you're playing for six months.

1:18:57

As soon as the songs you fill out

1:19:00

the audience or found out it's like to

1:19:02

dance stage but at some point you guys

1:19:04

became one of the best live bands that's

1:19:06

ever ever been. Like when when was the

1:19:08

moment when that happens. Was.

1:19:11

It in the first couple years was it later

1:19:13

after new the material I quit. With.

1:19:15

Their a moment where you're like I remember

1:19:17

as as part of the Tor when boom.

1:19:20

I think even it or most

1:19:22

energetic and frenetic and kind of

1:19:24

I I don't. I wouldn't

1:19:26

say that was our. Best.

1:19:30

Performances: Musicians were.

1:19:34

In I I think we were. you know, in

1:19:36

some ways, kind of so. You

1:19:38

know, shot out of a Canon and. Soon.

1:19:41

And felt like. You

1:19:44

know I mean it was a bit of the

1:19:47

evil knievel was told that climb and stuff but

1:19:49

I think you really wanted people to. Remember.

1:19:53

Spite. Of the air as safe. As

1:19:55

it was among those nine his concerts or

1:19:57

low crazy we were you. I.

1:19:59

Mean. Times are you actually worried for

1:20:02

his safety and mom and I long

1:20:04

term future. I mean, there's pictures. There's

1:20:06

pictures of me where. The

1:20:09

keys up and I'm looking the other way

1:20:11

In I'm in a wife and I. I

1:20:14

think them. The.

1:20:17

Thing that I was thinking about

1:20:19

was. American. I watch

1:20:21

him die. Gazette.

1:20:23

That it had that happen once you're for and sigh

1:20:25

there there there is a part of me that sort

1:20:27

of fell legs. And

1:20:31

the I trusted him because I have some

1:20:33

do some fucking insane stuff you know like.

1:20:37

Iguanas, And movie there's some

1:20:39

Via Del Mar fairgrounds and be there

1:20:42

soon. Records of Made To Be broke

1:20:44

off. it's like risk of know like

1:20:46

shit that's never said never had that

1:20:48

note that nobody's ever done and I

1:20:50

mean like to really evil knievel stuff

1:20:53

on. But. Yeah, there was

1:20:55

a there is a part of me that was sort of like. Like.

1:20:58

Afraid it, you know? On.

1:21:02

We. Were talking about. Just.

1:21:05

About a as you get older when in

1:21:07

the old days he would want to talk

1:21:09

to the athletes been I was taught to

1:21:11

the trainers and doctors. Average

1:21:14

musician, does he get all there's like, "What can

1:21:16

a injuries are you nursing these days would kind

1:21:18

of shape is your body?" Me:

1:21:21

Yeah, ah yeah. I mean did

1:21:23

you did a lot Alive says

1:21:25

letter, run around lot of swing,

1:21:27

let a diving into crowds you

1:21:29

know and lose. It's it's the.

1:21:32

The. Pick An instrument and and stern and

1:21:34

owns better Like Tennis, Elbow cancer, Oh.

1:21:39

It's not from Turner's Limited. Yeah,

1:21:42

yeah, yeahs, Avenue? Yeah. Yeah

1:21:44

on know with it's. It's

1:21:46

it's It's more painful than what I thought to

1:21:48

muschamp have given us. Now they're like the norm

1:21:50

attack and all these different things are you can

1:21:53

put the. The. Stuff on there you are

1:21:55

saying you did the. A delay of

1:21:57

Germany's dust. Know I went to

1:21:59

the co. The doctor or me I

1:22:01

don't have aids related. Currently you my

1:22:03

lateral side of my left with the

1:22:05

jumping leg. So.

1:22:08

An. Increasing years ago the doctors again

1:22:10

his knee replacement, but you're too young

1:22:12

sir. Yeah to figure out how to.

1:22:16

In Us I've immediately was like reached

1:22:18

out to anybody. That.

1:22:20

I knew me wally who work for this move

1:22:22

those who there was one of the first guys

1:22:24

and then he came to me with a guy.

1:22:28

In. Indiana because we're in Indianapolis. When it

1:22:30

was really bugging me. In.

1:22:33

There and they were all really high

1:22:35

on. You know that

1:22:37

technology, the region, or kind technology? So.

1:22:40

Like a few months later I was getting

1:22:43

ready to go to. Germany

1:22:45

to do it and they said hey

1:22:47

we're opening a clinic in Santa Monica

1:22:49

and six months now zoc one's gonna

1:22:51

answer is yes, yes. He

1:22:53

weather is I'm on a tablet. That was because mean we're

1:22:55

in this. He. Never said this place

1:22:57

before. On Thank. Any

1:23:00

this, you're batting cage. Ah,

1:23:02

This is goods this isn't were in

1:23:05

our warehouse and then I'm. And.

1:23:11

And when we first got display sweet

1:23:13

the oval operations going to under one

1:23:15

Roof Directors next door and nine. Keep.

1:23:18

The gear. And then there's. So.

1:23:21

T shirt, soda that. Back

1:23:23

Warehouse and we have offices upstairs for.

1:23:26

Things. Like com. Management

1:23:29

yeah to neglect this mechanism.

1:23:31

So a couple years into

1:23:33

the building. We. We

1:23:36

got this part of it. Zing! And

1:23:38

became the Playground Seattle. I was always

1:23:40

shown to figure out how to get

1:23:42

a batting cage either in the backyard

1:23:44

rent is too where him and then

1:23:46

just. He was.

1:23:48

That was his shot. It didn't skate

1:23:50

ramps of he. Still

1:23:53

ramp and and and a corner. And.

1:23:55

We built this it. It started off

1:23:57

to shrill like i'm. White. Conquer.

1:24:00

walls. It was all scrappy and

1:24:03

pallets with some helmets and a few batting

1:24:06

gloves and a few bats. But Johnny Ramone

1:24:08

had left me about

1:24:11

three pallets of legal

1:24:15

boxes full of

1:24:18

signed first edition baseball books. He

1:24:21

basically had a library. I mean,

1:24:23

that's like, who would have ever guessed that in a

1:24:26

million years? Well, if

1:24:28

you knew Johnny, that was part of

1:24:30

him. Baseball, Yankees.

1:24:35

Really, it was almost like the Ramones were

1:24:37

a side project compared to his love for

1:24:39

baseball. Crazy, a by 10 collection too, right?

1:24:41

The third biggest collection

1:24:44

of signed eight by tens. This

1:24:47

is going back to guys in the 20s

1:24:49

and 30s. Amazing. The other two

1:24:51

were foreign collectors

1:24:54

and they simply bought them.

1:24:57

Johnny sent them to

1:24:59

the guys. He had his baseball

1:25:01

encyclopedia and he had about one third.

1:25:03

So he had about over

1:25:06

5,000, 6,000. So he figured he had 330% of everybody had

1:25:12

ever played. So he

1:25:14

felt he was batting 350

1:25:16

or so, which would be

1:25:18

a Hall of Fame number. I

1:25:21

don't understand how you do that in like the early

1:25:25

pre-internet era. Right?

1:25:27

No, this was a Moneta envelope. Yeah, this

1:25:29

is like you're just cold, living in a

1:25:31

closed office. You're writing letters to people, right?

1:25:33

Dear Moose, my name is Johnny Ramone. I'm

1:25:35

your biggest fan. And stuff address, staff envelope.

1:25:38

You're more of a new big guy. He

1:25:40

kept the... You go on eBay, right? So

1:25:42

you can get some stuff on eBay now?

1:25:44

A lot of this is gifts, you know. All right. But

1:25:47

I think he's secretly on eBay. He's good.

1:25:50

He's named after me. Eddie 75. But

1:25:57

yeah, all those books and then those three books.

1:26:00

Big binders. Those are

1:26:02

all cubs. So he had mostly Yankees.

1:26:05

His next biggest was Cubs. That was his

1:26:07

favorite National League team. And

1:26:09

then after that, you had the 6,000. But

1:26:13

um... Because you guys... So

1:26:16

it became the Johnny Ramone

1:26:18

Memorial batting cage and library.

1:26:21

And everybody works here, works in the warehouse or

1:26:23

wherever they could come in at lunch, take a

1:26:26

few swings, have a sandwich, and pick

1:26:29

out a book. I

1:26:31

didn't know what to expect when I came. I didn't

1:26:33

know if like Dennis Radman was just preserving latte's hair

1:26:35

or like how deep it went. But

1:26:40

the connection you guys have with sports, I think... They're

1:26:42

not a latte. What

1:26:45

is the triple espresso? The connection you

1:26:47

guys have with sports, I

1:26:50

would say you're like the number one sports

1:26:52

crossover band. Like in all these different ways, right?

1:26:55

And dating back to when you wanted to be

1:26:57

Mookie Blalock and legally

1:26:59

couldn't pull it off, you almost

1:27:01

named your band after a random

1:27:04

starting point card from the early 90s. Then

1:27:06

it just kind of goes from there. Yeah,

1:27:08

Drouche Blalock. Mookie's real name. Yeah, I don't know if the band...

1:27:11

I don't know if it hits exactly the same as

1:27:13

Mookie Blalock. I think Pearl

1:27:16

Jam... I think it worked out. I think Pearl Jam was

1:27:19

a better outcome. But

1:27:22

you have... You're here... I

1:27:25

brought down a bunch of sports stuff actually. This is why

1:27:27

I had my iPad. Because we're

1:27:29

taping this. It's the same day

1:27:32

as Oklahoma City game

1:27:34

two, right? Which should be Seattle.

1:27:36

You guys were here for basically

1:27:38

the heyday of the Sonics. You

1:27:41

did Star Spangled Banner. What was it?

1:27:43

Game three, 96 finals? Oh, Bulls, yeah.

1:27:45

You had... You did a poster with Sean Kemp. You did

1:27:47

a poster with Sean Kemp. You did a poster with Sean Kemp. You

1:27:49

did a poster with Sean Kemp. You did a poster with Sean Kemp.

1:27:53

You... I mean,

1:27:55

even when you put the album out this year, you did

1:27:57

the MLB and NHL, you had the times with that. He

1:28:00

had the Sweet Lou song. You

1:28:02

had the Rodman hang, which was, you

1:28:05

know, that could have been like a spin-off of the

1:28:07

last dance thing. And then you have present tense and

1:28:09

last dance, which I think is the most

1:28:11

viewed sports documentary of all time. And

1:28:14

you guys were the closer. And then keep going,

1:28:16

2016 World Series. But

1:28:19

it's just like a sports always seems like it's around

1:28:21

the band. And then on top of that, you guys

1:28:24

have been together 33 years, which is, you

1:28:27

know, like a version of the sports team in a way. The

1:28:29

sports team, like what the Warriors have now, the

1:28:32

team that actually stays together. So

1:28:34

I don't know. It's just, it's

1:28:36

something that's there, but I never heard you really

1:28:38

talk about it that much. Do

1:28:40

you feel it? I've

1:28:43

just always, I

1:28:46

mean, of course, you know, you grow up and you

1:28:48

have heroes. And growing up when we had WGN and

1:28:50

the Chicago Cubs and black

1:28:52

and white TV, and they just became

1:28:54

kind of part of your household because

1:28:57

they were always on and

1:28:59

mostly day games, you know, home games are always day

1:29:02

games. So you had

1:29:04

early heroes, but then as

1:29:06

you grow up, you know, you realize that sports, I

1:29:10

think it's the drama, you know, it's like seeing a play,

1:29:12

but you don't know how it's going to end. And

1:29:15

that's where the art and the thrill,

1:29:18

but also the focus. And I

1:29:20

think it's the focus. I think it's when

1:29:22

you get to, let's say a game seven,

1:29:26

you know, or

1:29:28

this could be Wimbledon, this could

1:29:31

be anything, maybe not golf, but

1:29:36

the focus, it's the

1:29:39

seeing a human being with that intense

1:29:41

focus and a lot of weight,

1:29:44

but then, you know,

1:29:46

not letting that weight affect them and just kind

1:29:48

of go. And then that's

1:29:50

where you figure out, that's where the

1:29:52

practice is or the practice, you

1:29:55

know, being such a big part of, or

1:29:57

the mental stability.

1:30:00

ability because you've tried to go

1:30:02

through it so you don't panic.

1:30:05

I think that's the stuff that you

1:30:07

can use, that you get inspired by

1:30:09

and you can use it in

1:30:12

the studio or in a live performance.

1:30:17

That's what's always appealed to

1:30:19

me. First, there's the heroes.

1:30:23

We have modern day heroes in sport but also

1:30:28

they're probably our heroes because of what

1:30:31

we've seen them do under pressure.

1:30:36

Attention to detail, then coming through and it matters. A

1:30:40

little similar to music. Well

1:30:42

and I think Joe

1:30:44

Madden was really good

1:30:47

or talking to him about it at

1:30:49

length just about having

1:30:53

just been through it, been through it.

1:30:55

I guess line ups compared to set

1:30:57

lists. We used to have this conversation

1:31:00

and he had kind of color coded on

1:31:02

his thing like that and

1:31:04

then I had color coded on my pieces of paper and

1:31:06

we were just talking about the

1:31:08

– but you've kind of thought

1:31:11

it all the way through and visualize

1:31:13

it to a certain extent. So then

1:31:15

when the moment comes, you

1:31:17

don't have to like think about it. It's

1:31:19

not a brand new equation. Yeah. You

1:31:22

hear that? Yeah. And you

1:31:24

know for me, it was like

1:31:26

I grew up in this little town and

1:31:29

had the same friends from when I was born until

1:31:31

I was 18 and there was a

1:31:33

crew of about 10 or 15 of us that we grew

1:31:38

up playing sandlot, everything. We played hockey,

1:31:40

football, whatever season it was. We

1:31:42

were sort of playing it and then

1:31:45

through junior high and high school, we played all those

1:31:47

sports together and played little league and Babe Ruth. So

1:31:52

the one thing that I knew when I was 18 was

1:31:54

that there was this – every once in a

1:31:56

while you tap into this thing with your group.

1:32:00

And like there was, I

1:32:02

knew at an early age that the

1:32:05

group was more powerful

1:32:08

than the single person could ever be. Like

1:32:10

there was something when it really happened, even

1:32:12

if you weren't a part of like the

1:32:14

big shot or whatever, you were

1:32:16

still part of the unit. And

1:32:19

I think when things

1:32:21

rolled over into music for me, I wanted

1:32:24

to feel that thing that I felt when I was

1:32:26

a kid with my crew. You

1:32:29

know, like I wanted to feel that

1:32:32

power that was exponential. It wasn't five

1:32:34

times. It was like a hundred times

1:32:36

because the five of you were doing

1:32:38

this thing together. And

1:32:43

I mean, to be honest, the first couple of

1:32:45

days that we played in the basement together, I

1:32:47

felt a hint of that. I felt like, whoa,

1:32:50

there's something exponential

1:32:52

happening here. And

1:32:56

so, you know, once you

1:32:59

sort of taste that energy,

1:33:01

you want to,

1:33:03

you know, it's a drug. It's like you want, you

1:33:05

know, and it's not the crowd and it's not, I

1:33:07

mean, the crowd amplifies it even

1:33:09

more, but it's the

1:33:12

tornado that you, when

1:33:14

the winds are all moving the same direction,

1:33:16

the power that comes

1:33:18

out of that is like, it's

1:33:21

just the greatest. It's like,

1:33:23

you know, it's still

1:33:25

what I want to do. It's still, you know,

1:33:27

when he calls and says, let's get together, you're

1:33:29

like, okay, we could, let's go. You

1:33:32

know, we could hit on something. Yeah,

1:33:35

it's interesting hearing you talk about that because the

1:33:37

Warriors are at this point now, right? Clay

1:33:39

Thompson is going to be a free agent. And

1:33:42

Steph and Clay and Draymond have been playing together basically

1:33:44

since the early 2010s. They've

1:33:46

been the same coach. They

1:33:49

won four titles. They're going to be playing playoffs this year.

1:33:51

Team's getting old and you hit this point where

1:33:53

it's like maybe Clay leaves, maybe he just signs through

1:33:55

the Orlando, but it really seems like those guys just

1:33:57

want to stay together. They

1:34:00

even have that matters to them. and the same

1:34:02

way if they were nother title, it's it. seems

1:34:04

like the nucleus of it is more important than

1:34:06

the titles comparative. For. But. A Brit

1:34:09

you talk about that remind me of that

1:34:11

were sometimes they aren't quite. goes to Orlando.

1:34:13

Maybe make the finals with this. dude said

1:34:15

he just mad five minutes ago. But.

1:34:17

Attack In to be a Special is playing his

1:34:20

entire career in San Francisco and Oakland. There's no

1:34:22

way it, right. You.

1:34:24

Know a new you can't expect to be. In.

1:34:29

Iraq. You know you have. To.

1:34:32

Go to the finals every year Some that that

1:34:34

says that it is thirty teams. And.

1:34:37

They had where the craziest runs.

1:34:39

Ever. In a. A

1:34:43

I mean that said, that organizations in a

1:34:45

tough spot in our lives. And.

1:34:47

They resigned or a hot threat. Lot

1:34:49

of the at this is kind of

1:34:51

the Moto Dennis Rodman for you guys.

1:34:53

Had. Where we were. Just

1:34:55

realize I know a couple people who actually golf. Yeah

1:34:58

so on as usual you on about that

1:35:00

to a computer. the i think Murray out

1:35:02

on us over it added were at an

1:35:04

unwanted little between was put an undergrad ssl

1:35:06

he apologizes in advance for a.gov as. A

1:35:09

Have you guys have been? How many

1:35:11

times was the band actually close to?

1:35:13

May be. Going. This way because yeah,

1:35:15

don't like in the mid nineties there is a moment. Maybe.

1:35:18

Like two thousand. There is a moment. But

1:35:20

was there ever really a moment where he

1:35:22

felt like. This. Is gone sideways

1:35:24

because there's couple times you took breaks. And.

1:35:27

Is looking at me like I'm praying I

1:35:30

Me. I mean, I think there are probably

1:35:32

moments where all of us were ready to

1:35:34

bail in Lxi Eos. some. Misunderstanding

1:35:37

or some black of communication. Or

1:35:39

you know, there's probably some moments.

1:35:41

but I don't know. I.

1:35:44

Think there's a semi documented moment like when we

1:35:46

are making know code that I said I was

1:35:48

ready to quit the band that was fry last

1:35:50

for two days in a rise out that way

1:35:52

and then. And. Then you're

1:35:55

playing with everybody and nerves disbands. For.

1:35:57

The most part not meant to stay together. When

1:36:00

it gets pretty rare when you go. After

1:36:03

eight, nine, ten years. And.

1:36:05

Then you see like some of the ban

1:36:07

said stay the a feel that they pass

1:36:10

invisible plan roadside know it. Were.

1:36:12

Together and this is the south's gonna go. And

1:36:14

I don't know whether it's like six years,

1:36:16

eight years, ten years or to the we're

1:36:18

Not We're not a band together because we

1:36:20

were like, well, Okay, will

1:36:22

you be? You know is that you know

1:36:25

this. Yeah how it turned out. So if

1:36:27

you're okay with how. Is

1:36:30

it that way? Rent? It's it's. it's. You.

1:36:34

Know between. The

1:36:37

Earth and we have to give credit

1:36:39

to the audience for shown up. Supporting

1:36:42

us. Kind of. Returning.

1:36:45

Energy back to us feeding off their

1:36:47

energy. Yeah, And and

1:36:50

being a custodian of the

1:36:52

music and and for them.

1:36:56

And I'm feeling

1:36:58

responsibility to a

1:37:00

crime and then.

1:37:02

That's not something that is one of

1:37:04

us. take some and something that we

1:37:07

all take on and and and when

1:37:09

we discuss settlers Seward tour plan or

1:37:11

whatever it's all agreed upon and. But

1:37:14

they you know this isn't. This.

1:37:17

Is a brotherhood? I don't know.

1:37:20

You know, outside of arm. Even

1:37:23

are banned lives. It was. You

1:37:26

know we've all been through. A

1:37:28

thing or two here and there. Whatever.

1:37:30

Maybe not all of us, but I,

1:37:32

but we've looked after each other and

1:37:34

then and. You know that?

1:37:37

That. Brotherhood is. Is

1:37:39

strong and again I don't know

1:37:42

that would exist without. The

1:37:44

crew of you know, an audience that kind

1:37:46

of. Gave. Us a reason

1:37:48

to. Stay Together that

1:37:50

was kind of bigger than us or

1:37:53

anything that we all any one of

1:37:55

us felt. as an individual

1:37:57

read your nose more It

1:38:01

was, they kind of forged

1:38:04

our, you know,

1:38:07

or kept us tight in

1:38:09

our relationships. But I really don't

1:38:11

feel like there's ever been a, you know,

1:38:15

we were able to maintain

1:38:17

and manicure and protect

1:38:21

the songs and the music and

1:38:23

our future of playing music in

1:38:26

those early years. And that was

1:38:29

probably, you know, that wasn't

1:38:32

easy or we, it was kind of taking a

1:38:34

dare of will that

1:38:36

audience we were just speaking about, will they

1:38:38

follow us? Because

1:38:40

we didn't, we didn't, we thought that the

1:38:43

light was a bit too bright and

1:38:47

then bright lights cast dark shadows.

1:38:49

Yeah. So we just wanted to take

1:38:52

it down a bit. It feels like by

1:38:54

the 97, 98 rage, you

1:38:57

were good with what happened with

1:38:59

the band because it was meteoric, right? I mean,

1:39:01

you, I remember you had some quote, like you

1:39:04

were just playing guitar in your bedroom. You

1:39:07

never expected any of this, right? And

1:39:09

then overnight, all the shit

1:39:11

happens. Well, it sounds pretty whiny, but yeah.

1:39:13

No, but it's true. I

1:39:15

mean, most people don't expect, you know, if

1:39:17

you, if you love doing something and you're messing

1:39:20

around with it, you know, you

1:39:22

know, the great idea, it's not like

1:39:24

you're a basketball player. Like I'm the number

1:39:26

two player in my class in sixth grade and I'm

1:39:28

going to play in college and get to the NBA. I

1:39:31

mean, I mean, two things like

1:39:33

one, we'd all been, all of us have

1:39:35

been playing music for five

1:39:38

to 10 years before the overnight

1:39:40

thing happened. True. The

1:39:42

other thing on the other side of that is that because

1:39:46

we, we sort of, that

1:39:48

first record, we sort of had a plan. Like we

1:39:51

wanted to play a lot of shows because we felt

1:39:53

like we wanted to be a better band. And so

1:39:55

we, and we did these things our own way, the

1:39:57

how we wanted the security to be at the shows.

1:40:00

how we made our shirts and the prices

1:40:02

we charged and kind of all these

1:40:04

things. And because

1:40:06

that first record was so huge, people

1:40:09

left, like the record company and the people left us

1:40:11

alone, they're like, oh, they must know what they're doing.

1:40:13

And so it sort of gave us a little bit

1:40:15

of a carte blanche

1:40:17

to sort of like just

1:40:20

follow whatever tributary that, you know, was

1:40:23

the most powerful for us. And to say the

1:40:25

word no. Yeah.

1:40:27

But again, luckily that we

1:40:30

were supported by an audience because

1:40:33

otherwise, yeah, we would have

1:40:35

had to go back to doing it the

1:40:37

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