0:28

Hello , Today I have with me

0:30

Gina Mundy . Gina

0:32

is the mother of three and an attorney

0:34

that specializes in childbirth cases

0:36

. For over two decades , she

0:39

has analyzed the mistakes that are made during

0:41

labor and delivery . Drawing on

0:43

this knowledge , she has authored the book A

0:45

Parents' Guide to a Safer Childbirth to

0:47

help parents prevent these mistakes and have

0:49

a healthy baby . Rather than

0:52

merely getting involved after an unfortunate

0:54

mistake was made , Gina has taken a proactive

0:56

approach by getting involved before childbirth

0:59

. Today , Gina will be sharing about

1:01

her new book and giving tips on how parents

1:03

can have a safer childbirth . Gina

1:06

welcome and thank you for joining me .

1:08

Kelly , thank you for having me . I gotta

1:10

tell your audience we just had the best pre-show

1:12

chat ever . You are amazing

1:15

, so I am super excited to be here today .

1:17

Thank you , and I was . I really enjoyed getting

1:19

to know about what you're doing . I kind of feel like we're kindred

1:22

spirits and kind of approaching this

1:24

before birth time , where

1:26

parents can really take advantage

1:28

of the knowledge that they can gain

1:31

by truly preparing

1:33

for childbirth so that they can enter this space

1:35

confident and calm and really

1:38

knowing what they can do and what

1:40

choices they have .

1:41

Oh yeah , 100% . I mean it's such

1:43

a big day . It's

1:45

a day most moms dream about

1:47

their entire life , from when they're a little girl

1:50

, playing with their baby dolls . I know I've played

1:52

with my baby dolls and always

1:54

thought of that big day . It's important

1:56

to be ready 100% .

1:58

Yeah , and I always think about how much planning goes into

2:00

a wedding . I wonder to myself , why

2:03

are we not planning the birth

2:05

as much as the wedding , but in the

2:08

sense that we need to not necessarily

2:10

plan the twinkle lights and the lavender

2:12

oil and all of this stuff , but really understanding

2:15

all of the things that go into

2:17

the birth and all of the options and how

2:19

we feel about all of those things ? You would

2:22

have an opinion of roses versus lilies

2:24

right , you

2:26

would know if you want them in your bouquet

2:28

or not . But why aren't we

2:31

looking into pitocin versus

2:33

a cook's catheter or whatever it is

2:35

and really learning what the pros and cons

2:37

and when you might want to have those introduced

2:40

to your birth and what circumstances would have

2:42

to happen for that to be

2:44

okay , in really working

2:46

through our emotions on that situation

2:48

?

2:48

Well , you are so right on . I

2:51

love it . And I think in my book I

2:53

don't say wedding , I say , hey

2:55

, you plan everything in life vacations

2:57

, financial plan , you name it . So why

2:59

are we not doing it for the birth ? And

3:01

let me tell you in my book , chapter

3:04

one , all of the lessons from the baby

3:06

cases whether it's a lesson from

3:08

the family that was involved , whether

3:10

it was from a delivery team or

3:13

the medical experts on the case these

3:16

are the lessons that we can learn from the baby

3:18

cases and keep in mind as a lesson

3:20

you're learning from

3:22

it in order to prevent

3:24

it from happening in the future . But lesson

3:27

number one by far

3:29

is the most important lesson and

3:31

it is from the families . You must

3:33

prepare for childbirth and you're

3:35

going to be able to make better decisions

3:38

when you're ready and you're going to have that streamlined

3:40

communication with your delivery team . There's

3:42

so many different benefits to

3:44

being ready for the big day . You know the families

3:47

. I hope your audience understands what a childbirth

3:49

case is . I did not know my profession

3:51

existed until I got into

3:53

it 21 years ago . So

3:56

, just so your audience understands , when I'm saying childbirth

3:58

case , this involves a case

4:00

that has to do with the birth of a baby

4:03

, and baby is not

4:05

born healthy , permanently

4:07

not healthy . Something

4:09

went wrong , a complication , a

4:11

mistake . Sometimes baby

4:13

may pass away during childbirth and

4:16

sometimes mom will pass away during childbirth

4:18

. So these are what I have seen over

4:20

21 years and this is this

4:23

is important stuff . So when I

4:25

and I can tell you the families in this

4:27

case , it's like they have like the minds

4:29

that we're all guilty of bad things only

4:32

happen to other people

4:34

and you don't prepare

4:36

. You're already in a very vulnerable

4:38

state of mind anyway , given

4:41

childbirth and everything else , but

4:43

it's just . It leaves

4:46

you in a position where you can't make those good

4:48

decisions . And let me tell you

4:50

, in my cases , the families are one

4:52

decision or minutes from a healthy

4:54

baby . So having an understanding

4:56

of what you're getting into working with your delivery

4:58

team by far the number

5:00

one lesson you can learn from a childbirth case

5:03

.

5:03

Yeah , and I feel like , as

5:06

a healthcare professional , I

5:08

can tell when either the preparation

5:11

hasn't occurred or the preparation

5:13

occurred but the emotions surrounding that

5:15

haven't been addressed , and so then there's beliefs

5:18

that will prevent that person or family

5:20

from being able to make those decisions

5:22

in an emergency situation . And

5:25

I feel like , even if things turn

5:27

out okay , the trauma

5:29

that occurs because of the lack

5:31

of preparation or the lack of really exploring

5:34

what comes up for you when you think

5:36

about some of these interventions and

5:39

getting clarity on that , having

5:41

not done that and not having a thorough understanding

5:44

, that is what leads to trauma . And

5:46

if it doesn't lead to a lawsuit because there's

5:48

no adverse event , it certainly

5:51

will lead to the patient complaining

5:53

about their experience in the hospital . And

5:55

so I feel like if we

5:57

are able to get to the

5:59

bottom of what makes people

6:01

feel out of control in the labor

6:04

and delivery space , we can all kind

6:06

of come together and solve

6:08

a lot of the problems that we're seeing , come up

6:10

with the patient's satisfiers and also

6:13

what may lead to those minutes

6:15

that turned into a bad outcome

6:18

. And I think it all comes down to communication and understanding

6:20

each other , and what I'm seeing is a trend of

6:22

healthcare professionals going into

6:24

one corner and saying I'm just trying to help

6:26

you have a healthy baby , and

6:28

doing things and communicating in ways

6:31

that are somewhat manipulative in

6:33

order to get the patient to do what they

6:35

want , and then I see the patients

6:37

resisting and becoming incredibly defensive

6:40

and not being open and honest with their

6:42

healthcare providers , and that really sets up

6:44

the scene for nobody

6:46

getting what they want . So if we're not working together as

6:48

a team and we're both just trying to push

6:51

the other person to get what we want

6:53

instead of understanding how to come together

6:56

, that is a huge reason . I think that plays

6:58

into the maternal mortality rate in this

7:00

country and the neonatal mortality

7:02

rate in this country , because something

7:04

is wrong . We have the top mortality

7:07

rates for both maternal and neonatal

7:09

deaths in the developed

7:12

world , and it shouldn't be that way .

7:13

You know , callie , when I was hired into

7:15

this field 21

7:17

years ago , literally my first case was February

7:19

2003, . I was hired

7:21

into a team of over 20 of us . That's

7:24

all we did with these cases . So

7:27

you know , sometimes when I talk to somebody like you

7:29

and I hear the whole the doctor

7:31

, patient issues , with doctors

7:33

trying to do the right thing , patients defensive

7:36

and then just not working together

7:38

. It's just incredibly hard to hear . So

7:41

my book is very work together

7:43

with the team to make good

7:45

decisions because your delivery team

7:48

they're so important , along with your doctor , your

7:50

doctor head to your delivery team . I mean

7:52

, ultimately you guys talking

7:55

to Callie are responsible as

7:57

delivery team bringing babies

7:59

safely into this world . You know , when I have

8:01

the childbirth case , it's typically

8:03

the delivery team's care . You know

8:06

that's at issue and it's analyzed

8:08

more than any other aspect of the case

8:10

. But it's important to understand

8:12

now and I can also throw out there I love

8:14

my labor and delivery nurses . You

8:17

guys are absolutely

8:20

amazing humans . Most

8:22

of my labor and delivery nurses , even from

8:24

my cases , are amazing

8:26

and I've met very few

8:28

who are not . But I am just

8:31

a huge respect to labor and delivery

8:33

nurses . You guys are the ones at the patient's bedside

8:35

and I can tell you , in my cases my

8:38

labor and delivery nurses show more

8:40

human emotion than any other

8:42

witness in the case from the medical

8:44

side . So you guys have all

8:46

. You guys always blow me away and there's always

8:48

so many times we're hanging with a nurse and it's like her first

8:51

lawsuit . So they're always few and far between

8:53

. But going back to the delivery team

8:56

and here at issue , your doctor heads

8:58

your delivery team

9:00

and your doctor is typically not

9:02

at the hospital . It's your delivery team

9:04

that's bedside with you . So just

9:06

doing whatever you can , I

9:08

think even during your pregnancy , and

9:11

making sure that you have a good doctor , a

9:13

good doctor that's going to communicate with

9:15

your delivery team , a good doctor that's going to communicate

9:18

with you , is just so incredibly important

9:20

. I have a chapter on how to pick

9:22

the good doctor , so I have been

9:24

analyzing or BGYNs , because

9:27

they it's really , I say the

9:29

delivery teams care . At issue , the doctor

9:31

is the head of the delivery team . Okay

9:34

, they had it , so they're captain

9:36

of the ship . So you

9:38

know , constantly in our field

9:40

we have to say , okay , is this a good doctor or a

9:42

bad doctor ? And we have to do it because you cannot

9:44

stick a bad doctor in front of a jury . You're

9:46

going to get pummeled in

9:49

court room , cannot do it . So

9:51

I have a whole chapter on how to pick a

9:53

good one and what to look for . But

9:55

yeah , a huge part of that is how your

9:57

doctor talks to you , how your doctor communicates

10:00

with you , because you can guarantee

10:03

you how they talk to you and how

10:05

much time they give you and understanding

10:07

. And how they communicate with you is likely how they

10:09

communicate with their delivery team . So

10:11

you want a doctor Kelly for

10:14

everyone who cannot seek Kelly . She is shaking her

10:16

head up and down in agreements but

10:19

it's important because , again

10:21

, your doctor Captain of the ship

10:23

is not at the hospital . He's relying

10:26

on the labor and delivery nurses or residents

10:28

or midwife to communicate how you're doing

10:30

with that . Then she or she makes

10:32

the recommendation . It's kind of

10:35

screwy when you think of it . I mean , the

10:37

lead person is not even at the hospital , but it

10:39

is what it is . So it's really

10:41

important to want a

10:43

team that's going to have a really

10:45

good synergy with your

10:48

doctor Picking

10:50

that doctor . I just cannot emphasize

10:52

enough how important that is that

10:54

you're comfortable . Then you guys all

10:56

get along on that big day . You have to be comfortable

10:58

enough with your doctor to work

11:01

with them , not be defensive , because that's

11:03

when things go wrong . Trust me , I've

11:05

talked to the families over the years . It's the

11:07

hardest part of my job . It's the reason I wrote

11:09

the book is to spare all their families

11:11

from what these poor families have endured

11:14

in the work of therapy .

11:16

Yeah , I couldn't agree more . Part

11:18

of the coaching program I'm doing is helping

11:20

people find a provider that they align

11:22

with and helping them come up with

11:24

questions because there's so little time

11:26

in the visits . If you are

11:28

meeting with a provider and insurance

11:30

is paying for it , it's essentially you

11:32

get like 15 minutes face time with

11:34

your doctor per visit and it's not

11:37

a lot because the doctor has a lot of things to

11:39

talk about and they have a lot of assessments

11:41

to do . So if you want to get in depth on

11:43

what their delivery philosophy is

11:45

, that's really hard and short of looking

11:48

at their C-section rate , which I'm not even sure

11:50

how to find .

11:52

But people always talk about it . Yeah

11:54

, you got to ask your doctor . They don't

11:57

even tell me that stuff . And so

11:59

the hospital reports it because the doctors

12:01

will get shit if it's too high .

12:04

Exactly , but it's not even the C-section

12:06

rate , it's the . If you have a provider that's

12:08

like , and it's okay if you align

12:11

with this , if you want to schedule your

12:13

induction , you want to get pitocin

12:15

, have your water broken , get your epidural , have a baby

12:17

, great , that's fine . But

12:20

if you wanted to do things a little bit more naturally

12:23

and you have a provider that likes

12:25

to move things along , well

12:27

, you're probably not going to have the best experience

12:30

and then if

12:32

there's a negative outcome , you're going to blame your

12:34

provider because you felt pushed towards

12:37

these interventions that you originally

12:40

didn't want , and it doesn't matter

12:42

if they're interventions that are for that

12:44

specific purpose . If you didn't feel like

12:47

you were a part of the team in coming

12:49

up with that birth plan , then there's going

12:51

to be some negative feelings and if there's a negative outcome

12:53

, that's just , it's all bad . So I think

12:55

it's really important . The first step would

12:57

be to find , like you said , find a provider that you align

13:00

with and also talk to them about how they manage

13:02

their births . You can interview multiple

13:04

providers and multiple teams , because it's not

13:06

always the provider that you choose

13:09

that's going to be the person that delivers you

13:11

if you wanted to have a natural birth , because

13:13

if you go into labor when your provider is not available

13:15

, then you're probably not going to get that provider . So

13:17

you really kind of have to do your homework and talk

13:20

to everybody about will they support

13:22

your preferences and under

13:24

what circumstances . Would

13:27

then they start to recommend other interventions

13:29

that you may not be comfortable with and under what

13:31

circumstances are you comfortable with them

13:33

? Because I , going into

13:35

my first birth , don't think

13:38

that I had my head wrapped around the possibility

13:40

that there could be a fatal outcome for me and

13:42

my baby . I knew it , but it just

13:44

you know . Like you said , it won't happen to me , that happens to other

13:46

people , and I never

13:48

really considered that I might

13:51

need a C-section to save my

13:53

life or my baby's life . I knew it , but

13:55

it wasn't something that I fully

13:57

understood . I understood

14:00

it for my second because I was a labor and delivery nurse , but

14:02

also that there's

14:04

other reasons that C-sections are recommended

14:07

. It's not necessarily an emergency and it is

14:09

such a spectrum of reasons

14:11

and everybody's comfort level is different

14:13

. So you may have a provider that pushes C-section

14:16

. They feel more safe getting the baby out under

14:18

certain circumstances that

14:20

may not align with your preferences

14:22

. You may want to try

14:25

some different things before you

14:27

go to the C-section . You may want a

14:29

little bit more time for your delivery , for

14:32

example . They're and I'm saying this

14:34

because there are moms that I've taken care of that

14:36

have that opinion they would prefer to

14:38

. As long as everybody is safe

14:40

, as long as the baby looks good on

14:42

the monitor . Category one is what

14:44

we consider good . We know that everything

14:47

is neurologically intact , as long as

14:49

mom is safe

14:51

, vital signs are good and there

14:53

are no extenuating circumstances

14:55

or underlying medical conditions . There

14:58

are many birthing people that would

15:00

prefer to continue to labor

15:02

, and there may be providers that don't

15:04

want to do that , and so it

15:06

doesn't make anybody wrong . It just makes

15:08

them wrong for each other . And so it's really

15:11

, really important that you don't have

15:13

that dynamic in your birth , because it's not

15:16

possible to feel safe

15:18

with a provider that doesn't feel safe

15:21

proceeding with your wishes , because you're

15:23

not going to feel safe and the provider's not going to feel safe , and

15:25

that just sets up the situation for failure

15:27

100% .

15:28

So at the end of that chapter I

15:30

throw in 20 questions that

15:34

everybody should ask their doctor . Yeah , check

15:36

them out and you know what those are 20 questions

15:38

that we ask a doctor in every single

15:40

case . So if a doctor's ever been involved in a

15:42

lawsuit with me , they've been asked these questions

15:45

, no matter they're an expert or a

15:47

defendant doctor , whoever it is . But

15:50

we ask these questions to

15:52

again figure out who stick them in front of the jury

15:54

and their answer . Sometimes , you

15:57

know , I'll use to discredit them

15:59

, depending on the doctor . It's obviously that would not be

16:01

a doctor on my side if the case used

16:03

it to discredit them or

16:05

maybe even bolster their credibility

16:07

in case . So these are really important

16:09

questions that everybody should ask . Now I was just

16:11

asked in a podcast earlier

16:14

and they were like

16:16

OK , great thing , I've got this list of questions

16:18

, but are you going to be worried about offending the doctor

16:21

? And I'm like what ? No

16:24

, these are not offensive questions . I

16:26

mean , yeah , you're not deposing him . You know

16:29

I may be in a situation where I'm deposing a doctor

16:31

, so I'm like you know an adversarial proceeding

16:33

. So , yeah , I may be offensive , but the patient

16:35

, this would not . If a doctor is offended

16:38

because you're asking them these

16:40

questions , ok , red flag right

16:42

, right .

16:42

That is your answer .

16:44

Yeah . So that's a red flag . The doctor is probably

16:46

not right for you , but you

16:48

and listen . Here's the deal too , and

16:51

I said this in another podcast . I'm like

16:53

take my book in , throw

16:55

me under the bus , be like I read

16:57

this book from a childbirth

16:59

attorney . She only sees the things

17:01

that go wrong . She has the knowledge

17:03

and the understanding on how to make it go right

17:06

, and this is what she wants me to ask

17:08

you and I've listened to a podcast

17:10

with Kelly and Gina

17:12

Mundy said if you don't like it , email

17:15

her . Yeah , email

17:17

on my website , GinaMundycom

17:20

says email Gina . It goes to

17:22

my phone . I will have it , likely

17:24

in an hour or two . I will

17:26

be responding to your doctor . So that's

17:29

what I say , because there's a lot of things in there , because

17:32

I do . You just talked about interventions

17:34

. And interventions are incredibly

17:37

important . Listen , we

17:39

haven't talked about this . Chapter 11 of

17:41

my book goes over the most common

17:44

facts and issues in a baby case . The

17:46

number one , most common fact in my

17:48

cases when there's a mistake and complication

17:51

and baby does not do well

17:53

is the drug ketosin . That's

17:56

a huge decision

17:58

. So I've seen ketosin induction

18:00

has gone wrong since February 2003

18:02

. And I mean

18:05

I've traveled the United States many

18:07

times , meeting with delivery teams , going over

18:09

this drug , researching this drug , cross-examining

18:11

our experts on this drug . I know the drug

18:14

pamphlet for ketosin , the insert

18:16

. I know that like the back of my hand . Okay

18:18

, I know a lot about the drug , so

18:20

I can tell you exactly how to have a safe ketosin

18:23

induction . Now listen , doctors

18:25

universally agree that

18:27

ketosin is safe during labor . What

18:29

they don't agree on is how to administer

18:31

it , and you had said earlier some doctors

18:34

may be more aggressive with it . Yep , those

18:36

are my cases . Yeah , so

18:38

that chapter . I'm a

18:40

slow and steady , hit your

18:42

sweet spot kind of chick with ketosin

18:44

. I love how we're in the same page , though , and

18:47

it goes over that Like that's what you want

18:49

and it tells you why . Ketosin is a very individualized

18:52

drug . How you respond to it depends

18:55

on you . You're going to respond to it differently

18:57

than somebody else and if you've never had the drug

18:59

, nobody can tell you how you're going to respond

19:01

to it . And listen , if the pit goes

19:04

too high too fast , guess who it hurts

19:06

? Baby , this is not okay . Anyway

19:08

, again , you're going to

19:10

go through my chapter . If you do choose to have

19:12

an elected ketosin induction , that's your decision

19:15

. That's fine . If my kids decided

19:17

to have that , I would be like great sweeties

19:19

. Just read chapter 14 and

19:21

talk about it with your doctor . Your doctor

19:24

may look at

21:08

that chapter and be like this is great , or

21:11

your doctor may not . But here's the thing

21:13

Take my book in . If you're

21:15

kind of nervous or you know you're

21:17

not , I'm obviously . You can listen to me on the podcast

21:20

. I'm a huge advocate . I'm an advocate by

21:22

nature . But if you're not like me

21:24

and you're like , okay , I want to have a healthy

21:26

baby and a pertussin induction , take

21:28

my book in , feel . This is what Gina

21:30

said . This is how I will . Am I pertussin induction

21:33

rock ? Do you have a problem with this ? And

21:35

if they do , or anybody does , include

21:37

a different doctor , you can again

21:39

, you know I'm not a medical professional

21:42

if you get to see the good and the bad . I only

21:44

see the bad . So that's why I

21:46

wrote the book to make sure the stuff's not

21:48

happening to parents who want to have a healthy baby

21:50

.

21:51

Yeah , and speaking of pertussin , Talking

21:55

about one of my favorite topics in

21:57

a word oh my

21:59

gosh , yeah . So at the

22:01

hospitals that I work at , we have to document why

22:03

we're not going up on the pertussin . What ?

22:05

okay , start documenting this in your charts

22:07

. Gina said so . Patient

22:10

had . The patient had a copy of Gina

22:12

Mundi's book . I

22:15

didn't up it . Yeah , oh

22:17

, and . And at the end you can put in the baby was born healthy

22:19

, right ?

22:20

right because , like you said , when you do hit the

22:22

sweet spot , the baby is born in the right

22:24

amount of time and healthy .

22:26

And okay , can I just tell you something , kelly

22:29

, I don't know if you've read the drug insert , just so you

22:31

understand . And that drug insert . Number one

22:33

Big bull letters we

22:35

do not recommend using pertussin for

22:37

39 week induction . Doctors do

22:39

it anyway . Number two you only need

22:41

to go up to six to be equivalent

22:44

to spontaneous . I

22:46

just I wish you can't video this next

22:48

time because I wish everybody could watch holy

22:50

when I talk . It's so fun . She starts like

22:52

jumping up and down . Somebody

22:55

else knows within her brain . Okay , kelly

22:58

, kelly and I again are on the same page . Six

23:00

is the equivalent to spontaneous

23:02

labor . There's no reason to go over

23:04

10 . Okay , this

23:06

is right and just everybody understands

23:08

that . The pertussin induction is

23:10

a really easy to understand . Let's just say , you know

23:13

it's like one and they , you typically

23:15

have an order to go to 20 , so you can

23:17

do one . Go by one , one

23:19

, two , three , four or

23:22

some doctors like to go up by two , two

23:24

, four , six , eight . So

23:26

it's actually a very simple discussion

23:29

that you can have with your doctor . And

23:31

then , just so you understand , your doctor writes

23:33

the orders and then nurses , like Kelly

23:35

, insert . Kelly's amazing at doing a

23:37

good Pitocin induction . Kelly runs

23:39

, you run the induction for your patients

23:41

, right , yeah , so

23:44

and then you can't . You can net

23:46

. Oh my gosh , my blood is starting to boil

23:48

. You know it's , it's hard . I'm like

23:50

do do ? Do hospitals not understand

23:52

that this is the most my hospitals do ? I

23:54

jump up and down all the time about this

23:57

and I advocate for just one

23:59

nurse with one pitocin induction

24:01

. I don't like one nurse

24:03

who has two pitocin Inductions . That's

24:05

too much . Eyes off

24:07

the prize when that happens . How are you

24:10

? Are you at your hospital ? We

24:12

?

24:12

go up by two and then we usually have two pitocin

24:14

inductions per nurse , not because

24:16

we want to , but because it

24:19

just what . One of the hospitals that has

24:21

been actively keeping track

24:23

of patient acuity and

24:25

Counts the acuity higher

24:27

if you have a pitocin induction in the

24:29

equation . I can't remember how . It's been a while

24:32

since I've been charged nurse at that hospital but we would have

24:34

to keep track of the acuity versus

24:36

the number of nurses and whether that was safe

24:38

and Justify our staffing . But

24:40

also then we would talk about do we need

24:42

to go on diversion ? Because we don't have safe

24:45

staffing ratios and that kind of stuff and

24:47

so pitocin was considered a

24:49

one-to-one thing . So if nurses

24:51

had two patients on pitocin then

24:53

that started kind of messing up our staffing . The

24:55

other hospital I work at I don't know I've

24:58

not been charged nurse at , but we regularly

25:00

, just because we don't ever go on diversion , since we're

25:02

Just really a community hospital

25:04

and people just come in . We labor people in

25:06

the pack , you . We labor people in the Triage

25:08

area . People come in whether we have a bed or not

25:11

. It gets to be pretty crazy . But I

25:13

know that the insert is that

25:15

six is a natural , spontaneous labor

25:17

and that ten . You shouldn't go

25:19

past and I , if there's , if we've

25:21

gotten to ten of pitocin and nothing is happening , we

25:23

need to do something else . We might

25:25

want to consider if it's safe to

25:27

break their water and Kick

25:30

into natural labor and then perhaps back off

25:32

of the pitocin , because the body would

25:34

Pick up where the pitocin

25:36

wasn't able to , because there are natural

25:38

Labor hormones that are

25:41

stimulated when your water breaks and when the baby's

25:43

head is up against the cervix and you know , your body

25:45

starts to learn what to do with some of these interventions

25:48

and we don't need to be cranking the pit All

25:50

the time . And I just start my . My

25:52

red flags start to go off between six and ten

25:55

. I'm like what's going on ? What

25:57

are we gonna do ? And then , after

25:59

ten , I'm like I don't like this , I don't

26:01

like this anymore .

26:03

You're gonna just die when you read my book . No

26:07

, no , no , ready , no , I'm not getting you

26:09

. And again , this is where this is what I'm talking about

26:11

For audience

26:13

. You're expecting a baby and you're choosing to have

26:15

elected the totes an induction . This

26:17

is where you're gonna take my book to your doctor . Yeah

26:20

, your doctor's not gonna like this . I know that for

26:22

sure . Kelly . Kelly will confirm it once I say

26:24

it . I have like these pro tips in

26:26

my thing , and one of my pro tips is Talk

26:29

to your doctor about having a maximum

26:31

dosage of ten in their order

26:34

. Doctors don't like that . They like

26:36

a maximum dosage of 20

26:38

. Yes , so I am

26:40

like . No , you're gonna tell

26:42

your doctor that the maximum

26:44

dosage is 10 . So that nurse

26:46

that way , you know , unless you're really

26:49

super lucky , you had a great nurse like Kelly

26:51

and there are a bunch of great nurses . But if you don't

26:53

, you have a newer nurse maybe

26:55

isn't familiar with the totes and inductions . A lot of

26:57

my cases are newer Nurses and

26:59

they're not familiar with the drug and they're just literally

27:02

following the doctor's orders like a robot

27:04

, like they're supposed to . They don't understand . Yet it

27:06

takes time for a nurse to be a good labor

27:08

and delivery nurse . But so

27:10

it's important that in my book I'm

27:12

like nope , I'm capping out 10 and

27:15

listen , if you did need more or whatever

27:17

, that nurse can't give it to you

27:19

without talking to your

27:21

doctor . Now your doctor has to

27:23

write another order , but you know what happened then

27:25

. At 10 , doctor and nurse have

27:28

a discussion about your labor and delivery

27:30

. How are you doing ? It Also forces them

27:32

to read group and see

27:34

what's going on with your labor . So there's a million

27:36

reasons why just stuck . I call it

27:38

magic number 10 in my book

27:41

. I'm like I I wouldn't

27:43

go over 10 . If you want to , that's fine , but have your doctor

27:45

stop that order and literally

27:47

, if your doctor has not had a patient yet , he's

27:49

read my book and tell them that they're

27:51

probably gonna go wide-eyed . Just be

27:53

ready for it . And again , that's why you just

27:55

fold my book and you know , tell me , you know

27:57

me , if they haven't yeah , absolutely .

27:59

I feel like every labor and delivery nurse

28:01

that listens to this is gonna be cheering . We

28:06

all know that . You know there's other things that need

28:08

to be done . For if you're at 10 a pit

28:10

probably . The next steps would be , you

28:13

know , find other ways to stimulate labor . Often

28:15

the next steps are break your water . But

28:17

if that's not something that the patient wants to do

28:19

at the time , you know we could talk about position

28:22

changes and like moving , and there's there's

28:24

so many things that your labor and delivery nurse Can help

28:26

you do , or if you have a doula that can help you

28:28

do to get your labor Moving

28:31

. But then , like you said , what is holding the

28:33

baby up ? If we're , if we're

28:35

at Potosin of 10 and you're not feeling

28:37

the contractions and we're not adequate and all of

28:39

that stuff , what's ? What's going on ? Is the baby too

28:42

high in your pelvis ? Is there an anatomical

28:44

structure that's in the way ? Like we need to maybe start

28:46

considering what's going on ? So , yeah , it

28:48

just raises a lot of questions whenever

28:50

, whenever we start going

28:52

past 10 , at least in my brain .

28:54

No , I love it and I loved your comment

28:56

. I you know so much . I just love it

28:58

because after they

29:00

say , after 10 , your

29:03

body . So you have your natural

29:05

Axi-toesin that your body produces

29:07

, and then you have this synthetic drug , you

29:10

know the toast , and that mimics the axi

29:12

toast and you put the toast and then your system

29:15

that activates your body to release Axi

29:17

toast . And so they say there's a big study that

29:19

came out as the last thing I published in my book that

29:21

basically if you go over 10 You're on oxytocin

29:24

, the toast in overdrive again

29:26

. That's not good for baby . But listen

29:28

, you said a couple things that I'd want to comment

29:30

on because they are important decisions

29:33

, but chapter 11 again goes

29:35

over common issues , common facts in a baby

29:37

case . One of the most common issues

29:39

in my cases are facts . It's a maybe different

29:41

point issue , but a fact is that when there

29:43

is a mistake , where there's a complication

29:45

, it is Typically almost

29:48

always after mom's water

29:50

breaks , so that

29:52

it's actually a an

29:54

incredibly important decision because

29:56

Until that happens , your baby is

29:59

chilling out , they're pretty comfy . When

30:01

you drain the water out of their home

30:03

, they're the uterus . Then it

30:05

changes that environment that the

30:07

baby's in and then they become more vulnerable

30:10

to something happening . So just

30:12

keep that in mind , that if your doctor makes

30:14

that recommendation , you want to

30:16

ask them why and make sure there's a medical reason

30:19

for it . And again , if your doctor's

30:21

like , what's the big deal ? Show them

30:23

chapter 11 of my book , gina Mundi . That's

30:26

a huge decision that people

30:28

don't realize unless you're

30:30

in . You know my profession . And

30:33

then another thing that you'd say you said the

30:35

community hospital and you guys don't turn

30:37

anybody down . You're now . You're making

30:40

me shake and like . And

30:43

Again , this is chapter 11

30:46

of my book . This is so incredibly

30:48

important when mistakes and complications occur

30:50

. It is also

30:52

a very busy labor and delivery

30:55

unit , so everybody's running

30:57

hard . They're thinned out . I

30:59

mean , if you roll up to labor and delivery

31:02

and they're jammed and you get stuck

31:04

in an extra bedroom or an extra room

31:06

, I mean at that point you

31:08

just got to be really careful and

31:10

that's why it is I Just so you know

31:12

. Also , you said a magic word that I love

31:15

. I love doulas . As a child

31:17

birth attorney , I have never had a doula

31:19

involved in a case . I have reviewed

31:21

millions of records . A doula's

31:23

I have never been , ever even mentioned

31:26

in a case . And listen . Just so everyone understands

31:28

A doula would be effective

31:31

in a case is if she even spoke

31:33

to the mom during pregnancy or

31:35

childbirth , let alone step

31:37

in a room . So doulas are amazing

31:40

advocates . Especially if you roll

31:42

up and that unit is busy , I

31:44

mean you have this person . If

31:46

you have a good doula man , there's nothing

31:48

that needs a good doula . And obviously

31:51

when the childbirth attorney knows

31:53

nothing . Well , I do now , ever since

31:55

you know publishing a book and whatnot , but I

31:58

did not know much about doulas before publishing

32:00

my book . And that is

32:02

huge . And the childbirth attorney only

32:04

sees the band stuff . There's another thing about doulas

32:06

. Yeah , doulas are helping to bring babies

32:09

safely into this world . So

32:11

if you have access to a good doula

32:13

, to me childbirth attorney

32:16

no brainer , like my kids

32:18

, I've already picked out the doulas Good , I'm

32:21

just saying you cannot be a good doula

32:23

and they will help

32:25

you . Now my book , chapter seven . I

32:27

do have a baby advocate that

32:30

could be a doula . If

32:32

you don't have access to a doula , or you can't find

32:34

a good one , or whatever the reason is , I

32:37

do recommend designating

32:39

somebody to be your advocate

32:41

. Have your husband do it , have your mom

32:43

do it . Grandmas , grandmas make the best advocates

32:46

because I wrote the book so

32:48

I have healthy grandkids . Yeah

32:51

, so , grandmas , you should read my Amazon reviews

32:53

and grandmas , they just love my book . That

32:55

makes sense because I kind of don't get my grandma perspective

32:58

right , yeah , but

33:01

ever since I've been doing the packgast too , a lot

33:03

of people are like , well , the husbands don't really know

33:05

what to do and they're just confused

33:07

. And I'm

33:09

like , okay , so your husband just curls up in

33:12

the corner in the fetal position during a childbirth

33:14

. Sometimes that is not

33:16

hot . Okay , no

33:18

, listen , instinctively

33:21

a husband should want to protect his wife

33:23

and his baby , and

33:26

I can tell you I mean , I get it Up until

33:28

this point . I don't think there was a book

33:30

that told them how to do it . My

33:32

book does . My book will help guide

33:34

them so they can be there for

33:36

you and they can help

33:39

you make those good decisions . And you know what

33:41

you are going to look in so much more

33:43

if he's there protecting you and not

33:45

sitting in the corner rocking back and forth

33:47

. Yeah , you know

33:50

the tangent I keep . That's what moms keep

33:52

telling me or passing out Knock that off , man

33:57

. You guys play this for your husband . Gina

33:59

Mundy said that is not hot

34:01

, it's not .

34:06

Oh , my goodness . Yes , the ones that are at the

34:08

bedside , like going through it . That's amazing

34:10

. All too many of them are just like chilling

34:13

, playing Candy Crush or just

34:15

passed out in fetal position .

34:16

Yeah , and I think that's a fact to the families

34:19

in these cases , when after

34:21

the birth of their baby , and then they

34:23

have to meet me , it's a hard day , and

34:25

when I talk to them it's even harder because they

34:27

know every single thing

34:30

about childbirth and what happened to their

34:32

baby , to the point where they

34:34

know and I know If

34:36

they would have known this before their baby was born

34:38

, they wouldn't be sitting there talking to me

34:40

. It's absolutely heart-wrenching .

34:42

Right Before I became a parent , I didn't

34:44

know how much free time I had . You know that's

34:48

great . That's great . Gina

34:50

and Kelly want to remind you that now is

34:52

the most time you're ever going to have in your life

34:55

. So please prepare for your future because

34:57

your baby is your new career

34:59

. Most people don't know that going into it

35:01

, but you are starting a new career

35:04

and it's going to take more time than your current career

35:06

and you're going to not know how you're

35:08

doing it and I guarantee you you don't

35:10

want to deal with birth trauma or anything

35:13

even worse than that physical trauma or

35:15

fatalities because

35:17

you tried to bring a baby into the world . You

35:20

want to be able to get to that next chapter

35:22

of your life because you have prepared

35:25

fully and you understand the process . And

35:27

then you've also prepared for parenting as well . But

35:30

for the scope of this podcast , we're talking

35:32

about preparing for your birth . I'm also advocating

35:34

preparing for parenting as much as possible

35:36

and picking out your pediatrician , just like you're

35:38

going to pick out your OB , and making sure that

35:40

they know their stuff and that they're going to be your advocate

35:43

. All of that is so important

35:45

. But you wouldn't

35:47

prepare for a career with just going

35:49

to a three-hour class and seeing your

35:51

boss 15 minutes

35:53

every week . That's not how you

35:56

prepare for a new career . So why

35:58

would you prepare for your new career in

36:00

parenting or in birthing a child and then

36:02

parenting , by going to a three-hour birthing

36:04

class and seeing your OB 15

36:06

minutes a week ? That none of that

36:08

makes sense . If we're talking about

36:10

a hospital birth , you wouldn't

36:13

, for instance , go into get

36:15

treatment for cancer without knowing

36:17

your options and fully deciding

36:19

and having empowered decisions and figuring

36:21

out how the next steps of your life

36:24

are going to go with this new life-altering

36:26

diagnosis . Well , birth

36:28

is life-altering . You're going to have a new

36:30

human to care for . You've never done that before

36:33

. So why are we not putting the same

36:35

amount of thought and consideration into that

36:37

as we would if we were going in

36:39

for a life-altering medical

36:41

diagnosis and not to medicalize

36:44

birth ? But if someone is preparing

36:46

for a home birth or for a birth center

36:48

birth and they're going to see a midwife

36:50

, the level of preparation that

36:52

will be expected of them is so

36:54

much more than what you would do

36:57

to prepare for a hospital birth , and

37:00

it's like you give away your power to the hospital

37:02

to go ahead and just do the birthing thing

37:04

and you'd go in not knowing what you're signing

37:07

up for , whereas if you're going to prepare for a natural

37:09

birth , that is a marathon that

37:12

you need to physically and mentally prepare

37:14

for and people that have made

37:16

that choice physically and mentally prepare

37:18

for it and they spend hours and hours , and hours

37:21

and hours and months doing that and

37:23

they have to demonstrate that accountability

37:25

to their birth team so that they can all

37:28

work together and stay safe . Why

37:30

are we not doing that for hospital birth ? It's

37:32

a different mindset that you're

37:34

turning over all the authority

37:36

to the hospital or the provider or the team

37:39

and then

37:41

suddenly what I see are people

37:43

wanting to take back that authority

37:45

because they don't feel empowered . But they don't know how

37:47

because they haven't empowered themselves . So

37:50

it's so frustrating to see people who have obviously

37:53

not prepared have a horrible

37:55

experience when it totally

37:57

could have been prevented , whether or not there's

37:59

a negative outcome , because you can

38:01

have a completely normal birth and I'm an example

38:04

of that . My first birth and my second birth are very

38:06

similar , but my first birth cost me trauma

38:08

. My second birth did not and I had

38:10

more interventions in my second birth , but

38:12

they were empowered . I made those

38:14

choices versus the choices were

38:16

made for me in my first birth , and

38:19

I look back at my chart and I

38:21

agree with the choices that were made . It wasn't

38:24

what I wanted , but I wasn't fully knowledgeable

38:26

, and when I realized what

38:28

happened with my natural labor

38:30

process and all of those other things in

38:32

the cascade that led to the interventions

38:35

, I understand how that occurred

38:37

in my second birth , and when it

38:39

started to happen again , I knew what needed to happen in

38:41

order to keep me and my baby safe , and

38:44

so it felt empowered and my brain could

38:46

keep up with what my body was doing , versus

38:48

my brain couldn't keep up , because people were

38:50

doing things to my body that I didn't understand

38:52

, and that's what causes trauma Wow

38:54

.

38:56

You look at dream come true Now

38:59

, thank you . You're freaking

39:01

brilliant and doing all of

39:03

these amazing things for your listeners

39:05

. Okay , everybody realized Kelly's like busy

39:07

mom , busy working with her delivery

39:10

here and

39:12

has this amazing podcast

39:14

. So people like you can

39:16

have healthy babies .

39:18

So my good new home . Thank you for

39:20

coming out with this book , because I didn't

39:22

get a chance to read it . But you know what I was waiting for ? The audio

39:24

book , because I'm a audio book listener . But

39:26

I'm going to buy it and bring it to the unit .

39:29

Oh thank you .

39:30

You know , I had six of kids .

39:34

You can point to her , to the doctors .

39:36

How do you sell books to nurses ? You tell them that six

39:38

of pit is optimal .

39:39

Six is perfect . That's all you need done

39:41

Adopt . So I have a labor and delivery

39:43

nurse and it was funny . She I have no idea who she is

39:45

. She's actually absolutely amazing

39:48

. I was just going through Instagram

39:51

and she tagged me I think that's why it was in my news

39:53

feed and she's doing a review

39:55

of my book and I wrote

39:57

down . So it was a good review . She says not only

39:59

should patients read it , but everybody

40:02

on the delivery team doctors , nurse everybody

40:04

should read this book . So then

40:06

I wrote like hey , thank you . Yeah , then you know

40:08

, then it's so sweet , I really appreciate it . And

40:11

so she actually messaged me personally

40:13

and she was like listen , I make traveling

40:16

labor and delivery nurse . She goes

40:18

, I take your book to

40:20

every single hospital and

40:22

she goes and I leave it at the nurses station so we

40:24

can all go through it all the time . And I'm like

40:26

stop , and yeah , she takes

40:29

it to . She doesn't leave her . Like

40:31

, if she goes to work , she takes my book with her . So

40:33

, yeah , I mean take the book , show

40:35

it to your hospital , show it to your doctors . You

40:38

know , this is why I'm not increasing the

40:40

fatigues in right here

40:43

, and this is why I don't want to go about 10 right

40:45

here . Again , email me if

40:47

they have an issue and , by the way , the audio book

40:49

should be on hearts 15 .

40:50

So if you , do that , yeah , but even it sounds

40:53

like I need to like be highlighting some things , so

40:57

it's like what kind of book is it ? Is it a workbook

40:59

? It sounds more like a workbook . And here you

41:01

go .

41:04

Yes , it's going to be at the nurses station . I'll be buying two copies

41:06

.

41:07

And I love travel nurses . They know their stuff

41:09

because they have to protect themselves . Their

41:12

entire career requires them to consistently

41:15

protect their license because every hospital

41:17

is just so different and so

41:19

you know , if you walk in and you're brand

41:21

new and you only get like a couple days of training

41:23

and then you're expected to be like

41:25

a top notch nurse , you have to protect

41:27

your license .

41:28

Yeah , so she's doing it . And you know

41:30

what I bet I even asked her . I should ask

41:32

her , like , have you had to like pull it out and show a doctor , show

41:34

a hospital , and why you're not doing something in my book

41:37

?

41:37

Yeah . I heard the thing about

41:39

the six of pit being the optimal

41:41

level that mimics the body's spontaneous labor

41:43

. Yes , but I didn't

41:45

know that it came directly from the drug insert

41:47

. So I need to get . Because we don't get the drug

41:50

insert , we don't have just Google

41:52

and print it out . Okay , well , I'm going to

41:54

Easy .

41:56

Yeah no , you can just literally Google

41:58

the pitosa and felicitin moms . That's a great point

42:00

. There you go . If you were going to I actually

42:02

you know what , don't

42:04

read it . I , I , everything you

42:06

know from the drive , you know like a sun I read it

42:09

. It's kind of eye-opening .

42:10

You may not get an electric induction .

42:11

If you read it .

42:12

Right .

42:13

If you want to , you can Google it . I

42:15

went to the drug insert . I pulled

42:17

out everything I thought was important

42:19

and then wrote it more in my plain language

42:21

. So everything .

42:22

Yeah , that's probably better . Yeah , well

42:26

, I'm going to be printing it off , but because

42:28

this is an argument you know , I mean this

42:30

is what goes around and around with the nurses

42:32

, because we're like , why are we pushing this ? Like , why are

42:34

we going faster ? Why , because

42:37

I work at . It says like 20 to 30 minutes is how

42:39

often we go up on the pitocin , so they're a little

42:41

bit of the way . The other one is 15

42:44

. Stop it .

42:46

No , you know what I

42:48

? I may start just heading straight to these hospitals

42:51

. That's great Audience , pure

42:53

insanity . That's pure

42:56

insanity there and

42:58

I have it in there Again . This is where this

43:00

, I bet you this is why that but first takes my book

43:02

everywhere so your body it

43:04

can take . Oh , I hate to quote

43:06

it because I it's not 15 minutes . Your body

43:08

has to take time to react

43:11

to that pitocin and kind of hit that steady

43:13

state of the pitocin is , I think what they call

43:15

it . It's way more than 15 minutes

43:17

, it's like an hour or something , I don't know

43:19

. I quilt the study . I cite the

43:21

study because I did like , and there's a few studies

43:24

that have been kind of all of it aborts . I actually

43:26

I think I cited a couple of the studies but no

43:28

, the 15 minutes is not enough time

43:30

and that's going to take your body

43:32

into oxytocin , pitocin overdrive

43:35

and that is just really

43:37

, really bad for baby , as

43:39

I've seen in my cases for 21

43:41

years .

43:42

Well , and to kind of get off on a little bit of a tangent , there's

43:44

some other reasons that it's not great

43:46

to be pumping somebody full of pitocin . One

43:48

is we know that it increases their risk for hemorrhage

43:50

afterwards because it tires out the

43:52

uterus . I've heard a lot of

43:55

comments about it overloading the pitocin

43:57

sensors , but I'm not . I haven't been able to find

43:59

evidence of that , and what we want

44:01

is uterine tetany

44:03

after delivery . But what happens

44:06

is if you are giving too much pitocin

44:08

, it causes uterine atony , because

44:10

you can't throw more pitocin at

44:12

a tired out uterus that's already got its pitocin

44:15

sensors full and so then it causes problems

44:17

. Then we have to do more interventions , like

44:19

the medications like methadone

44:21

, hemivate , mesoprostil . We

44:23

use tranhexamic acid now just to continue

44:26

to clot what's already clotted , and

44:28

then we have the potential of needing a blood transfusion

44:30

or going back to the OR for

44:32

a DNC or a hysterectomy or , if

44:35

you're lucky , you're at a hospital . They do

44:37

uterine artery embolism . Now

44:39

we have things like the JEDA that help

44:41

stop the hemorrhages and that's stopping

44:43

things a lot faster . But they're expensive , they're

44:45

invasive and let's just

44:47

not get there . Yeah , why

44:50

, when we could just be doing optimal

44:52

levels of pitocin and then asking what

44:54

next in that situation . And

44:56

then the other thing is that I've heard , when

44:58

I've interviewed midwives for my podcast

45:01

before , they've talked about the endogenous

45:03

pitocin and what it does

45:05

to the brain and the

45:07

connection with the baby versus synthetic

45:10

or exogenous pitocin . So endogenous

45:12

is internal pitocin , like your natural

45:14

body secreting the hormone in

45:16

a response to the natural occurring

45:19

labor processes and also

45:21

afterwards having that contact with your baby

45:23

. There's thought in , I believe

45:26

, studies that have started to realize

45:28

that having that external

45:30

pitocin or the synthetic pitocin can

45:32

kind of mess that up . And so then we end up having

45:34

issues with breastfeeding and bonding

45:36

and all of that stuff , because it doesn't necessarily affect

45:39

the brain in the same way that the

45:41

internal or endogenous

45:44

pitocin does . So it's a drug Just

45:46

like every other drug . There's benefits in their

45:48

strawbacks , and so why are we overdosing

45:51

? You wouldn't give somebody a maximum dose of Tylenol

45:54

for a little bitty headache . So

45:56

then why would we do the same thing for

45:58

an induction if we just waited

46:00

to see how the patient responded

46:03

? So I just don't really know why we're cranking

46:05

things as much as we are forcing

46:07

things .

46:08

Yeah , after I published the book and then I've

46:10

been on the podcast talking to a lot of people about

46:12

my book . I keep hearing about these

46:14

postpartum issues and the breastfeeding

46:17

pitocin . I don't know anything

46:19

about that but I'll just let your audience know

46:21

. I mean , this is I keep hearing this a

46:23

lot Like people keep asking me about it . I'm

46:25

going to look more into it , but it's done

46:28

just making a form decision and I think

46:30

something that's important we haven't talked about . We keep talking

46:32

about interventions and something that

46:34

is so incredibly important

46:37

is spontaneous

46:40

vaginal birth is

46:42

rarely in my cases . So

46:46

if you can do that , I

46:48

may spontaneous vaginal birth

46:51

kind of check because of what

46:53

I've seen Rarely , rarely

46:56

do I have a case Again

46:58

for the past 21 years . I need to keep

47:00

saying that , but I've been around a long time

47:02

doing this that involves a spontaneous

47:05

vaginal birth . So that

47:07

is . That's a great option

47:09

. As a childbirth attorney , definitely

47:12

I would be telling my kids that is number one

47:14

. That is what I prefer for my grandkids

47:16

. Obviously , you have to have the post-in . You

47:18

go to chapter 14 . But those interventions

47:20

, man , that's . That's what stuff

47:23

goes wrong .

47:24

Yeah , it's not . Yeah , it's not by leaving

47:26

the body alone . Usually , I

47:29

mean , unless you have a medical reason , like if you're preclamatic

47:31

and your blood pressures sky

47:33

high well , we don't have a choice . So

47:35

there's a lot going on there , but I think

47:37

, for the most part , what we're talking about is elective

47:40

inductions that go wrong , and

47:42

then the other ones that are medically

47:44

necessary because we're trying to save

47:46

the mom and the baby's life . You know , it

47:48

is more , a little bit more important to move

47:51

things along , especially if we're

47:53

talking about high blood pressure .

47:54

Well , and that's why it is so important

47:56

, if you're pregnant , that you do learn about

47:58

the TOSEN , maybe listening to this

48:01

podcast and being like heck , no TOSEN

48:03

is not coming anywhere near my baby . Listen

48:06

, that might not be the case

48:08

. That's very hard to plan out childbirth , pregnancy

48:11

or anything . You have to be ready

48:13

to pivot if you need to . I tell

48:15

a story is the introduction to the book

48:17

. But my niece , she was 38 weeks

48:19

pregnant . Her mom calls me , which is my sister

48:21

named Kelly by the way , aww , I

48:23

know that . And so he said Kelly and Gina

48:25

. And I'm like that's why I grew up with only 15 months

48:28

of care . Aww , and now yeah

48:30

, so we're really tight . So Sam's like my other

48:32

daughter , she's having the first

48:34

baby of our next generation at

48:37

you know two . She's actually the reason I

48:39

stopped in my tracks and moved to Florida .

48:41

Mm-hmm .

48:41

And . But she was 38 weeks

48:44

pregnant and she was really sick and

48:46

I am like they were like should she

48:48

go to an IV clinic and

48:51

get an IV , or should she go to

48:53

the hospital and get an IV or get

48:55

checked out ? I'm like to the hospital , I

48:57

get it , she's not feeling well , but I want baby checked

48:59

out because if she's she was doing , she's in pretty

49:01

bad shape . I'm like I need baby on a fetal monitor

49:04

immediately if she is that

49:06

bad , because your baby's inside

49:08

you . It's hard to tell how baby's doing

49:10

. You know mom . You look at mom and

49:12

you're like , oh , you're in pain , you can talk , mom

49:14

communicates , you guys make a plan

49:17

, it's all good , baby's much different

49:19

. So I'm like , go up , check on baby . And

49:21

they did . She did . She's 38

49:23

weeks pregnant and baby was not doing

49:25

well and she was given the

49:27

oxygen , c-section or pitocin induction

49:30

. And then obviously , at that point my

49:32

phone just started going crazy because

49:35

of those two accidents . But no , she just

49:37

wanted a spontaneous vaginal

49:40

birth and she

49:42

was just , she was not ready for anything

49:44

. She's like what's pitocin ? I'm like what's pitocin

49:46

? And I'm like , oh my gosh

49:49

, you know and I just my

49:51

case is this , yeah , and

49:53

it was a scary birth . Yeah , we actually

49:56

, at the end of that , went about 20 minutes

49:58

not knowing how the baby was going to be . Okay , it

50:00

played out just like my case is . It was awful

50:02

and it stopped me in my tracks

50:04

and basically initially

50:06

, when my sister had called , we thought

50:09

she was it was March 17 , 2022

50:11

. I couldn't drink because

50:13

then it was the same padding stay right , couldn't have my

50:15

back to home or green beer because I

50:17

was waiting for her . So I'm like , yay , five

50:20

o'clock , my phone ran , perfect timing

50:22

, right and I have my cocktail . And

50:24

instead it was my sister hysterically

50:26

screaming on the phone

50:28

and I am like I

50:30

ran outside , away from my family , so they

50:32

couldn't hear her . I knew and

50:35

I went from like this legal analysis of

50:38

what had happened during labor to like the

50:40

human analysis , because when I talk to the family

50:43

, they always describe this transitional

50:45

period . They have their

50:47

before life , before their baby

50:49

was born , and they have their after baby

50:51

was born , like their two separate

50:54

lives and it's that point in

50:56

time where their life changes forever

50:58

and I'm like this is

51:00

how the families feel is this our transitional

51:03

point or is our lives going to be changed forever

51:05

? And obviously we

51:07

got news that baby was going to

51:09

be okay , but it was that minute that stopped

51:11

me in my track . It took me out of my legal

51:14

head and it went into this human

51:16

experience , human emotion , and I'm

51:18

like I got to start writing this stuff down . I don't

51:20

know too much .

51:21

Yeah , yeah , and it's just . I think the most

51:23

important part that you mentioned was , yes

51:26

, the normal , spontaneous vaginal delivery is the

51:28

best . That is the best option . That's what I want for

51:30

. I wish that on everybody . However , there's a moment

51:32

sometimes when that gets taken off

51:35

the table . And if you've continued to plan

51:37

for a normal , spontaneous vaginal delivery

51:39

but not considered what

51:41

your backup plan is if that gets taken

51:43

off the table and not gotten really comfortable with those

51:46

options and understanding what

51:48

your comfort level is with some of those options

51:50

like we're talking about , like the six of pit , and then we'll have

51:52

a conversation , or the 10 of pit , and then we'll have a conversation

51:54

. Or let's talk about

51:56

whether it's medically necessary to break

51:58

my water or whether we're doing this to get

52:01

the labor moving . Let's talk about the position

52:03

of the baby's head in my pelvis before we break

52:05

my water , because that makes a difference , because

52:07

the higher up the baby is , the more likely to

52:09

have a cord prolapse . Or let's

52:11

talk about how far I am in labor and whether

52:14

or not we think that I might end up having

52:16

my water broken for too long and introduce

52:18

infection risks and that

52:20

kind of thing . I mean it's nothing is 100%

52:22

benign . So it's important

52:25

to know how these tools

52:27

can help you and how these tools

52:29

can hurt you , because they're all just tools that your

52:31

doctor is using to progress your labor . But

52:34

you get a choice on how

52:37

you want to utilize the tools as well , and

52:39

you and your doctor should be having a conversation

52:41

. It should be informed . Consent

52:43

is really important . Shared decision-making

52:46

so that everybody is on the

52:48

same page and feels comfortable . And while

52:50

the doctor is the head of the delivery team

52:52

, you also are the head of

52:54

the delivery team . You are

52:56

the patient , the consumer . It's your body . You

52:58

have autonomy . You get to say yes or no . But

53:01

in saying yes or

53:03

no , please don't do it arbitrarily . Please

53:05

don't make it fear-based . Please

53:07

make it educated , so

53:09

that you know exactly what your limits are

53:12

, what your desires are , what your goals are

53:14

, and you've really sat with

53:16

a lot of these possibilities and

53:18

decided how you're going to handle them . Because

53:21

that's how you enter the birth space empowered

53:23

, not by kiting from

53:25

them and trusting your doctor so completely

53:28

that you think that they're going to make the right decision

53:30

for you . Yes , you should trust your doctor , but

53:32

because they've proven that they're trustworthy and

53:34

because you've had conversations and you understand

53:37

how they plan to react in your birth . I just

53:39

think it's so important and I think that so

53:41

many people unfortunately don't

53:43

take the time to do that .

53:45

Yeah , I don't even know how to respond

53:47

to that . I don't even know if I can . That

53:50

is so well said . So

53:52

you know I wrote also . You haven't talked about

53:55

this , but I did do a chapter on having

53:57

a plan . My spin on it

53:59

as the attorney is obviously different because

54:01

, you know , this is not your normal pregnancy

54:03

book . Having a plan is one of the big lessons

54:06

in the cases . So you can understand

54:09

decisions you may have to make , you can

54:11

marinate in those decisions , and

54:14

it's important that you do that in the comfort

54:16

of your own home where you

54:18

can listen to great podcasts like this

54:20

. I mean , I can't even I

54:22

haven't listened to all your episodes but you must be just

54:24

full of information . These

54:26

are decisions you may have to make , and so

54:29

knowing the good , knowing the bad , is so

54:31

incredibly important . But to read

54:33

my book , you listen to podcasts like this . Maybe

54:35

you have a doula or doula I love

54:38

them , they're just great educators and you

54:40

have somebody , a coach or whatnot

54:42

, and you just go through and

54:44

you understand and

54:47

you take the time . You know when

54:49

we say create a plan , how long does your

54:51

wedding take to Exactly Plan

54:53

? Right , or take some time

54:55

, yeah , plan it , get it all out . And

54:58

that way you're not

55:00

going to be a deer in the headlights

55:02

if you have to make a really big decision

55:05

. Because that element of surprise

55:07

, it's like you cannot focus . Well

55:10

, you can't focus . You're going to be careful , you're

55:12

not going to make great decisions . And fear

55:14

. Fear is the unknown

55:16

. How do you overcome fear

55:19

? Understand something

55:21

, you learn about it , you take

55:23

the power of knowledge , and

55:25

that will get rid of your fear

55:27

. People will be like oh , isn't your book going to

55:29

instill fear into people ? I say listen

55:32

, fear is the unknown . I am trying

55:34

to provide them with information

55:36

so there is no fear . They

55:39

can make those good decisions to have a

55:41

healthy baby . And , by the way

55:43

, I did have six pregnant beta

55:45

readers read my book before it was published

55:47

and my number one question to

55:49

them was is this book

55:51

scary ? All six pregnant beta

55:54

readers who finally all had their babies , by

55:56

the way all had nice , healthy

55:58

babies and they were like Gina , this is not

56:00

scary at all . Even

56:02

in the book I talk about , I took to pregnant

56:04

people all the time because of what I do

56:07

. I get phone calls from labor and delivery

56:09

. So I can tell you really

56:11

, in my career , how

56:14

I talk to somebody who was expecting is completely

56:16

different than how I talk to them now . I

56:19

was very just matter of fact

56:21

Well , you can't really be exactly matter

56:23

of fact when you have somebody

56:25

carrying a baby . So I learned

56:27

very quickly on how to speak

56:30

to them without getting too

56:32

scary or whatever , because what I'm

56:34

trying to tell people is

56:37

so incredibly important it could literally

56:39

save their babies . So I

56:41

obviously talk in a way

56:43

that's more preventative , proactive

56:45

, and that's also because my book is not about

56:48

what can go wrong , it's how to make sure

56:50

it goes right .

56:51

I've started to encourage people to

56:54

have birth preferences rather than a birth

56:56

plan , because I feel like it's a misnomer

56:58

. Because nobody can plan . You

57:00

can consider your options , but you can't plan

57:03

for how everything is going to go . But

57:05

if this happens , then I'd

57:07

like to go with this option . If this option is not available

57:09

, I'd like to go with this option . You have to be able

57:11

to make those decisions and you have to know what they are

57:14

before you make them . The other thing that I think is

57:16

really important is to ask yourself get

57:18

really honest with how you want to feel

57:20

in your birth . Because if you say

57:22

that you want to feel calm and empowered and

57:24

joyful , how does

57:26

that happen ? If you

57:29

feel fear , if you feel

57:31

unconfident in your decision

57:33

making , if you feel like you don't know

57:35

how it's going to go , if you don't feel comfortable

57:37

in that space , you're not going to feel

57:39

calm , confident , empowered and joyful

57:41

. You're just going to be scared . So why

57:44

would you go into the birth space not

57:46

prepared and setting yourself

57:48

up to feel those negative feelings

57:50

? And then , if you were in

57:52

a position that is that vulnerable as

57:55

you are when you are exposing

57:57

your private parts to

57:59

deliver a baby , that is , up

58:02

until the time they come out of your body , essentially

58:04

part of you , and then that part of you

58:06

has to live on the outside of your body . I can't

58:09

think of anything else more vulnerable than

58:11

that . So then , if you haven't

58:13

really focused on how you want to feel in

58:15

that space and what steps you need to take to feel

58:17

empowered and not so vulnerable and to be

58:19

able to continue to use the frontal

58:21

lobe of your brain because what happens is that part

58:24

checks out when you're in labor and

58:27

all of those things are happening and you get so

58:29

primal you can't actually focus

58:31

and think . You need to have thought that through

58:33

before . It needs to be an instinct when you

58:36

make those decisions . And

58:38

the other thing that I think is so important

58:40

that I actually did an episode on is

58:42

stress and labor do not mix . So

58:45

if you want to have that normal , spontaneous vaginal delivery

58:47

, you have to feel safe period . There

58:49

is no way that your body can do

58:51

it . It needs to do if you feel terror

58:54

, if you feel like I mean , your body

58:56

is not made to run away from a tiger while

58:58

you're giving birth . It doesn't work . You

59:00

see animals go find a safe space to deliver

59:02

and then they'll stop what they're doing if they no

59:04

longer feel safe and they'll move to another safe space

59:07

. But humans are mammals and it works

59:09

the same way . If you have a doctor

59:11

that's scaring you and increasing

59:13

your cortisol levels and making you feel

59:16

stressed out , your body's not gonna feel

59:18

safe enough to put

59:20

itself in that vulnerable position where you are

59:22

going to deliver probably the most

59:25

important human in your life . You're

59:27

not gonna bring that child on the outside of your body

59:29

where you no longer feel like

59:31

you're protecting it . Your body's

59:33

not gonna do that . So you

59:35

have to plan to feel safe

59:38

in that space and if you haven't gone

59:40

through all the options and something comes

59:42

up that scares you , your body's not gonna be able

59:45

to do what needs to do .

59:46

Those are such great points . That's

59:48

so true and

59:51

actually just so , baby

59:53

lawyers typically have C-sections

59:56

for that reason because

59:58

we can't unsee what we've seen , we can't

1:00:00

unknow what we know , so we

1:00:02

typically have to have C-sections . So

1:00:05

in 2004 , when I had my first baby

1:00:07

, my friends that were also

1:00:10

giving birth , that were baby lawyers . So

1:00:12

back then , just so you understand , elected

1:00:14

C-sections were still looked

1:00:16

down upon . So

1:00:18

my friend was like

1:00:20

I talked to my doctor , I'm like I'm just not gonna be able

1:00:23

to relax , I just want a C-section . And

1:00:25

they're like no , that's not a

1:00:27

reason to have a C-section . And I

1:00:29

really did . Like my doctor , he was very conservative

1:00:32

and he's like Gina , you

1:00:34

can do it . So I'm playing this mental game

1:00:36

in my head and whatnot . And then

1:00:38

my girlfriend's like just tell your doctor , you

1:00:40

have herpes . She's like back in

1:00:42

2004 , you had herpes , they just

1:00:45

sectioned you . So I'm

1:00:47

like I don't have herpes in my medical records

1:00:49

, I don't have herpes . She's like well

1:00:52

, I told my doctor I had herpes and I'm getting a C-section

1:00:54

. And she did . She got her lactate C-section

1:00:56

at 39 weeks , whatever . Then

1:00:58

there's me . So my doctor won't schedule

1:01:00

it . And he's like Gina , let's just see , let's just see

1:01:03

. So I wake

1:01:05

up April 4th 2004

1:01:08

. So 4404

1:01:10

in hard for labor with my first baby and

1:01:13

I was always an exhausted person because I was

1:01:15

wearing a heart always run hard and

1:01:17

so I don't know why , I didn't feel any actual contractions

1:01:19

. But I woke up and straight up wanted

1:01:21

to push the baby out , breathing through contractions

1:01:24

and we had went to

1:01:26

the hospital . If that was convinced , I was literally gonna

1:01:28

have the baby in the car . And I

1:01:30

get there and yeah

1:01:33

, just everything just started freaking me out

1:01:35

because again , just of what I know , it's

1:01:37

very different . But babies are great , dr

1:01:39

. Couple of times the doctor is like oh

1:01:42

, what is section you ? I don't think you can have the baby

1:01:44

Gina vaginally because you can't

1:01:46

relax and I'm like I'm sorry , do you know

1:01:48

what I do ? I know it's

1:01:51

a problem , I get it . Even after

1:01:53

that it's obviously and actually I have

1:01:55

a male birth trauma . It's a journey

1:01:57

and he had his wife do an elective

1:01:59

cease . Now they're more acceptable . Obviously His

1:02:02

wife had an elective C-section Like

1:02:04

he couldn't handle it even as the husband

1:02:06

or dad . He's

1:02:08

like no , no , yeah

1:02:11

, you have to be comfortable in

1:02:13

order to do that . You cannot

1:02:15

be stressed out and cannot

1:02:17

be in fight or flight mode with her Mm-hmm

1:02:20

, and just to clarify , we're not

1:02:22

recommending elective C-sections .

1:02:24

However , if that is your choice , no , we're not . We're

1:02:26

supporting your choice .

1:02:28

Yeah it was , how you know , that comment

1:02:30

was off . Stress plus labor

1:02:33

doesn't mess . Yeah

1:02:35

, yeah , mental psychies of baby lawyers

1:02:38

is .

1:02:38

But I'll tell you .

1:02:39

So you know it was nice to go into

1:02:41

labor because if you were anything like me , you

1:02:43

look down and you're like ah , or

1:02:46

apathy has to come out of me . And

1:02:48

when you , when I woke up that day

1:02:50

and hard for labor , I'm like the baby

1:02:52

out , just get the baby out , just get the . You know like

1:02:55

it was this weird feeling . You

1:02:57

know it's like you're having contractions , your body

1:02:59

response , but mentally you want the

1:03:01

pain to stop eventually . So you're just like get

1:03:03

the baby out , get the baby out . It's

1:03:05

interesting because then I had two

1:03:07

scheduled elective C-sections after

1:03:10

that and I definitely because I definitely could not

1:03:12

to be that vaginal birth after C-section

1:03:15

, just because again me , and

1:03:17

so I had the scheduled C-section , so I would

1:03:19

go into the hospital have

1:03:21

a C-section and it was so eerie

1:03:24

that was . It was like

1:03:27

you know , you're just like , okay , they're

1:03:29

just there , do surgery and cut the baby out . Okay

1:03:31

, so you ?

1:03:33

know it is .

1:03:34

It was definitely mentally

1:03:36

like it was nice to go into labor because you're just

1:03:38

like get the baby out . It was definitely harder

1:03:40

to you know have an elective C-section

1:03:42

mentally because you don't have those normal

1:03:44

body tubes .

1:03:46

The baby out .

1:03:47

Actually I wrote that in my book

1:03:49

that the mental psyche , because I do have

1:03:52

a chapter on C-section and

1:03:54

I did do the difference of the mental psyche

1:03:56

and going into labor versus not

1:03:59

.

1:03:59

Yeah , I mean , and there's benefits and drawbacks to everything

1:04:01

and it's so important to know where

1:04:04

you land on all of that and

1:04:06

so that you knew what you want was great

1:04:08

. And I know people that I don't know

1:04:10

very many , but I know people that choose

1:04:13

an elective C-section just because that's their

1:04:15

comfort level . Now , there's definitely risks

1:04:17

to a C-section . It's a major abdominal

1:04:20

surgery , you're gonna use anesthesia

1:04:22

, but that doesn't mean that you're wrong

1:04:24

for wanting one . So just

1:04:26

knowing where you land and where your comfort zone

1:04:28

is really , really , really important

1:04:30

. And that only comes from knowledge and looking

1:04:32

for that knowledge and seeking it out

1:04:35

and wrapping your head around it and processing

1:04:37

and all the things you need to do to make

1:04:39

informed decisions .

1:04:40

Yeah , 100% . And you know my kids

1:04:43

too . I would never tell my kids to have an elective

1:04:45

C-section . You know that's because

1:04:47

of what I know , not ever

1:04:49

tell them so same thing with your audience . I would never tell

1:04:52

you guys to have it . It was just me . You

1:04:54

know me personally , but you know again

1:04:56

, that's just a bring . That nieces-straightful

1:04:59

circle that day on the PORKS

1:05:01

really stuck with me . And

1:05:04

then the thought of not being around my kids , you

1:05:06

know , for the birth of my grandkids sat in because

1:05:08

obviously how I would prepare them is

1:05:11

completely different than how like a normal family

1:05:13

would prepare . So that's

1:05:15

what happened is I actually was like for my

1:05:17

kids , I'm like what if I'm 1100 miles away

1:05:19

from them that day ? That's how far I was

1:05:21

, 1100 miles from Sam that day . I don't know if they said

1:05:24

that , so I couldn't get up to the hospital or anything

1:05:26

. So that's what happened . And then I'm like

1:05:28

, once I'm writing , and then that's when I'm like , oh

1:05:30

my goodness , I know a lot

1:05:32

of information that

1:05:35

is not out there that can help families

1:05:37

have a healthy baby , and it's all

1:05:39

stuff that just right in line with what you're saying

1:05:41

, kelly . So I just absolutely love it .

1:05:43

Yeah Well , Gina , is there anything else

1:05:45

that you wanted to talk about that we didn't cover ?

1:05:47

No , we've covered a lot . Yeah , can

1:05:50

I tell your audience that chapter one of my book

1:05:52

is on my website for free .

1:05:54

Oh no , I didn't know that .

1:05:55

No , I couldn't , did I , and I'm like that was

1:05:57

a little over an hour ago .

1:05:58

So I came over .

1:06:00

No , I think that last that is so incredibly

1:06:02

important , that chapter , that

1:06:05

I just keep it up there that way

1:06:07

, if you just want to go through the lessons and

1:06:09

then each lesson is a

1:06:11

subsequent chapter . So

1:06:15

chapter one learn about labor and delivery . So

1:06:17

then chapter two then is

1:06:19

what I believe is important

1:06:21

about labor and delivery . That will

1:06:24

give parents a good basis to help

1:06:26

them make some good decisions during labor

1:06:28

. So go there and

1:06:30

then you can check that out and

1:06:33

definitely in the subsequent chapters like that's

1:06:35

really where I here's the lesson you

1:06:37

can learn from it , but then the chapters will go through

1:06:39

. Okay , this is how to make sure you

1:06:42

have a healthy baby .

1:06:43

Yeah , and just as a reminder , where

1:06:46

can they find that ? What's your website ?

1:06:48

Oh , ginamundicom , g-i-n-a-m-u-n-d-ycom

1:06:54

, and these days , if you just Google it , yeah

1:06:56

. I'll put it in the show notes as well you

1:06:58

know if you Googled me one year ago today

1:07:00

, like nothing popped up , like

1:07:02

they Google , like who the heck is Gina

1:07:05

Mundi ? Now you

1:07:07

know , you know you publish a book . You're

1:07:09

out there advocating for healthy babies

1:07:11

. Google's like this is Gina Mundi . But

1:07:14

then again , I guess I didn't have my website back then . But no

1:07:17

, just being like , I think , a lot of shows and

1:07:19

podcasts and just books and out

1:07:21

there , just kind of changed some stuff .

1:07:24

Absolutely healthy babies .

1:07:25

I would prefer not to have a job .

1:07:28

Right , exactly Like . It'd be really lovely if

1:07:30

we could just like retire on a beach , knowing

1:07:32

that everybody has a safe

1:07:34

and joyful and non-traumatic

1:07:37

delivery . That'd be great .

1:07:39

Yes , I'm good , please put

1:07:41

me out of business . Yes , do it . I'd

1:07:43

be so incredibly happy if I did not

1:07:45

have a job .

1:07:46

So no , gina and Kelly want to retire together

1:07:48

in Bali . Yeah , I love it .

1:07:50

There you go right . Yeah , no , I'm

1:07:52

still a partner in a law firm and

1:07:55

I checked my email today and I

1:07:57

got records in on a new case .

1:07:59

So it's still happening . Yeah

1:08:01

Well , I

1:08:03

hope the case slowed slows down because the

1:08:05

book purchasing has gone

1:08:08

up .

1:08:09

Yeah , I will watch me . I'm keeping track , yeah

1:08:12

, of the correlation

1:08:14

. I'll tell you . And then , if you go

1:08:16

to my Amazon reviews , like

1:08:18

I read one on Tuesday , february 6th

1:08:20

2024 , you can look it up . But

1:08:23

I woke up 3 am . I get up

1:08:25

every day at 3 am , by the way , and I yeah

1:08:27

. You need to talk to you about how you do that Because , yeah

1:08:30

, you know what ? I ended up loving it . Well , I had

1:08:32

to write the book in the middle of the night . I'm still a

1:08:34

partner in a law firm . You know

1:08:36

I'm still in my husband's busy

1:08:39

business owner . This week my kids like I

1:08:41

don't want her out lunch anymore . I'm like we don't have any food

1:08:43

here . You know it's like walk to the store

1:08:45

. You know we have leftovers Right

1:08:47

.

1:08:47

What do you think we're gonna take ? This isn't a

1:08:49

store .

1:08:50

Right and I had to pack cold wine so I was like

1:08:52

I can't put one more thing on my plate . But no

1:08:54

, so I woke up at 3 am on

1:08:56

Tuesday and there was a

1:08:59

review from that day . So I

1:09:01

don't know where she is and I don't know anything about

1:09:03

it , but she basically was like

1:09:05

you know , I had a healthy

1:09:07

baby , a perfect baby girl , yesterday

1:09:10

. So she had the baby the day before . She

1:09:12

went through in that review how

1:09:15

my book helped her and

1:09:17

it's a pretty long review and I

1:09:19

just I actually or you can go to at

1:09:22

Gina Mundy on Instagram I

1:09:24

actually posted that review

1:09:26

on Instagram . It has to be three

1:09:29

, whatever . It's a video , but

1:09:31

I just cried , yeah , and

1:09:34

she's just like everybody passed

1:09:36

day of this book , but it was . When you're out there

1:09:38

doing it . It's amazing to read those

1:09:40

reviews . I get a lot of dad reviews , by

1:09:42

the way .

1:09:43

Because of that chapter , the ones that are in the fatal position

1:09:45

?

1:09:45

Yeah , the ones that are not . The cool dads yeah

1:09:47

, cool dads , leave me reviews . So I'm

1:09:50

going to actually go over the dad reviews

1:09:52

. And then grandma reviews yeah

1:09:54

, grandma's folks .

1:09:55

Definitely Well , gina . Thank you

1:09:58

so much . It has been so informative and

1:10:00

eye opening and enlightening

1:10:02

. I'm really glad that we connected and I'm really

1:10:04

glad that my listeners got to hear what

1:10:07

you have to say about having a safe

1:10:09

hospital birth .

1:10:10

Well , kelly , thank you for having me . I really enjoyed

1:10:12

today's conversation and I just love

1:10:14

how we're on the same page Out there trying

1:10:16

to help families have a healthy baby , and

1:10:19

you are awesome , thank you .

1:10:21

Welcome to you .