0:29

Hello , today I have with me

0:31

Megan McCutcheon , lpc

0:33

. Megan is a therapist specializing

0:36

in perinatal mental health . You can

0:38

connect with Megan at BeHiveWellnesscom

0:41

. She also offers a

0:48

birth bundle for pregnant moms , coaching

0:51

for new moms and a course called

0:53

Empowered Motherhood . Megan

0:55

is the mother of three and she's here today to

0:57

talk about holding various emotions

0:59

at the same time . Megan

1:01

, welcome and thank you for coming back

1:03

.

1:03

Thank you so much . I'm always so happy to

1:05

chat with you , so I'm glad to be here again .

1:07

So this is a complex topic

1:10

that I was in adulthood

1:12

when Daniel Tiger taught me that I can have

1:14

two emotions at the same time and

1:17

that that is completely valid . So

1:19

if this is new

1:21

to some people , especially if they're

1:23

in my generation , how

1:25

would one begin to unpack

1:27

some ?

1:28

of this ? Yeah , so this is a topic I

1:30

talk about a lot with my clients

1:32

, especially during

1:34

pregnancy , during postpartum

1:36

. There's so many different things that can

1:39

happen that can cause us to

1:41

feel a few different ways at the same

1:43

time , and I love Daniel Tiger and his lessons

1:45

, and now I'm trying to rack my brain

1:47

and think of exactly the song he sings about it . I

1:49

know what you're talking about , but

1:52

it's interesting because I think

1:54

that in society , and especially

1:56

maybe in past generations , we're

1:58

taught of emotions as opposites

2:01

. I think of these books that I have

2:03

at home and it talks about

2:05

what's the opposite of hot

2:07

, cold , what's the opposite

2:10

of heavy light , up down , and

2:12

then it's like sad , happy

2:14

, mad , glad . So

2:16

I think sometimes we're really taught that emotions

2:19

are either ors , and the reality

2:21

is that that's not always the case . Yes

2:24

, there can be an opposite feeling to you

2:26

know , whatever feeling , but you can hold these

2:29

opposites at the same time and and that's not

2:31

, I think , always well communicated

2:33

, and I think a lot of times we don't really

2:35

wrap our brains around that until we

2:38

are older and are in experiences

2:40

where we're like , okay , how

2:42

am I supposed to be feeling this or that

2:44

?

2:44

Yeah , absolutely yeah , and it's not

2:46

necessarily always a this or that

2:48

. It's like you actually have to sit

2:51

with your emotions and

2:53

really kind of break down

2:55

and peel back the layers on

2:57

what exactly is happening

3:00

to trigger all of those feelings and what

3:02

you can do about it .

3:03

Yeah , and be able to see each

3:05

as really valid

3:07

. And that's a lot of the work that I do with clients

3:09

is helping them to see OK , there's a part of you that's

3:12

showing up here that is really

3:14

scared . I just worked with someone this morning

3:16

who is pregnant and got pregnant

3:18

very quickly , very much quicker

3:21

than she was anticipating , and so

3:23

this was something she wanted , but she didn't think it was going

3:25

to be this soon and you know

3:27

so she's holding both this excitement

3:29

and also this fear

3:31

and also a little bit of anger around , like I don't

3:33

think it's going to happen this quick and I'm

3:36

not really prepared , and I think

3:38

I just see that so commonly with people

3:40

, and it's really important to

3:42

not dismiss your feelings , to

3:44

know that there's space for all of them and

3:46

we can kind of look at each of them one

3:49

by one and then also how they all interact

3:51

with one another .

3:52

Yeah . So I've heard people

3:55

say that your emotions , like , mean

3:57

something or are trying to tell you something

3:59

. There's lots of different language around

4:01

that , like what is

4:03

the wisdom that they're trying to impart

4:05

? Or what is the emotion trying to

4:07

protect your brain from ? Your emotions

4:09

usually are trying to protect you from something , so it's like

4:11

your brain trying to protect you from

4:14

something . So those are some of the schools of thought

4:16

that I've heard . So then , how do ? If

4:18

someone's trying to work through some things and

4:21

trying to figure out what all of these

4:23

emotions mean , or what

4:25

to do about them , or how to handle them or how

4:27

to sit with them however , I mean

4:30

, each emotion probably is going to require some

4:32

different plans of action , like how , how

4:34

do they start to sift through that ?

4:36

Yeah , it's interesting . I'm thinking about that statement

4:38

that you said about . You know our emotions

4:40

. It's our brain trying to protect us

4:43

, and I do think that's true in a lot of

4:45

cases , and I think sometimes also

4:47

it's more like our brains our brains telling

4:49

us or our body sometimes it shows up more physically

4:51

there's

4:57

something there that needs to be processed , needs to be acknowledged , and there's

4:59

that quote what we resist persists . So I was just talking to another client

5:02

today who was sort of trying

5:04

to avoid her anxiety , kind of

5:06

push it away , be like , okay , stop thinking about that

5:08

, stop thinking about the what ifs , and

5:10

we were talking about how the more you persist it

5:12

, the more it's going to grow . So that emotion is

5:14

there to tell you okay , there's something here that

5:16

needs to be dealt with or that needs to be

5:18

processed , and so I guess in that way

5:20

, our brain is trying to protect us , trying

5:22

to say , hey , you need to , this needs to show up

5:25

, you need to deal with this . So I think

5:27

just having space for and acknowledging

5:30

each emotion One of the examples

5:32

that's coming to mind is people when they experience

5:34

loss , oftentimes

5:36

they feel a lot of grief as they're

5:38

processing through , moving through what

5:40

happened . And then all of a sudden

5:42

they have this like moment of joy where you

5:45

know something comes in and they laugh , somebody

5:47

tells a joke and they feel happy , they laugh , and

5:49

then all of a sudden they feel guilt , like , oh my gosh

5:52

. I stopped grieving for a second

5:54

, I stopped feeling sad about this loss

5:56

and just being able to recognize

5:58

that we're allowed to feel all these

6:00

feelings and it's normal . And

6:03

just because you feel one thing , it doesn't

6:05

take away from the other .

6:06

Yeah , I've experienced grief where

6:08

I really it's like you

6:10

want to just live in that . I think of the time

6:12

of mourning , you

6:16

know , like where some cultures they'll have you dress in black and you have to for three months

6:19

or whatever . You're not allowed to do certain things or you're encouraged to do special

6:21

rituals , and I feel like that's

6:24

kind of what comes up for me when I think about I'm supposed to

6:26

be grieving right now . So how dare I do

6:28

anything that would bring in joy

6:31

or make me feel like

6:33

things might be able to go

6:35

back to normal again ? Because if you're grieving

6:37

, there's never a normal or it's

6:39

a new normal , and so trying to figure

6:42

all that out , yeah , and it feels like a real betrayal

6:44

.

6:44

I think we feel like , oh no , did

6:46

I somehow betray this person ? Because I

6:48

stopped thinking about that moment

6:51

but rationally

6:53

that's not realistic .

6:55

Right , yeah , Because everybody always says

6:57

you know that person wouldn't want you to grieve this

7:01

, they wouldn't want your life to be ruined for that . So

7:04

when we are trying to

7:06

process or hold space for an emotion

7:08

, I think a challenge

7:11

, at least that I have had as

7:13

a busy mom , is finding

7:16

the time to actually sit

7:18

with some of those emotions , figure

7:20

out where they're coming from , what

7:22

needs to be processed and worked through . I'm

7:26

the type of person that's I like to

7:28

go , go , go . What might it look like

7:30

for someone that's not really inclined

7:33

to sit and process ? What

7:35

would be some thoughts about how

7:37

they might be able to do it effectively without

7:40

feeling like they're taking time away from

7:42

their normal coping skill of going

7:44

all the time ?

7:47

Well , I think it really starts with acknowledging

7:49

the feeling . I think . The other thing about

7:51

feelings too is I think we also tend

7:54

to like label them negative or positive , you

7:56

know , like angry is bad

7:58

, happy is positive . But

8:01

just looking at these feelings without judgment

8:03

and when you feel that emotion come up , instead

8:06

of thinking like oh no , I'm angry and I don't have

8:08

time to be angry , or I'm sad and I don't have time for

8:10

this , I don't have time to process it , just acknowledging

8:13

being like huh , I notice I'm

8:15

feeling sad , I notice I'm

8:17

feeling irritated or irritable . Just

8:19

that noticing , I think , that acknowledging

8:21

piece , I think like feelings bubble up because

8:24

they want to be dealt with and they want to be acknowledged

8:26

. So just by noticing that they're there , giving

8:28

name to it , holding

8:30

space for it , allowing it to be there rather than

8:33

fighting it , I think that can be

8:35

helpful . And then from there it just really depends

8:37

on the situation and the

8:40

extent to which you need to process it . Sometimes

8:42

all it is it's like huh , I feel this

8:44

, okay , now I can move on

8:46

. But other times it's like well , wait , this nagging feeling

8:49

just kind of keeps coming back , keeps coming back

8:51

, and then maybe we do need to find

8:53

time or take some space out of our

8:55

day to cope with it , to

8:57

deal with it . For me , I so resonate

9:00

with what you say about being

9:02

a busy mom and it's like , okay , I don't have

9:04

time to feel my feelings , I don't have time to deal with what's going

9:06

on . But how can you find space

9:08

in your day ? Sometimes I'll just kind of file

9:10

this away , like , okay , I noticed somebody said this

9:13

and it was kind of triggering and I felt a certain way

9:15

. If I'm , you know , trying to go to bed at night

9:17

or something like that , I'll just be like , okay , I'm just going to

9:19

take a moment here and just think about that . Huh , what

9:21

might that have meant Without the judgment

9:23

? We get into trouble when we judge our feelings

9:26

. So how can you just give space to

9:28

it , acknowledge it and then maybe just process

9:31

, think through it a little bit , without making

9:33

it feel like you're fighting it ?

9:35

And I think also the stuffing down

9:37

is really easy for the

9:40

busy mom as well . So if

9:42

we are noticing the

9:44

emotion that's nagging and you're

9:46

trying to figure out

9:48

where it's coming from

9:50

, I guess where my brain is going or what

9:52

comes up for me is maybe

9:55

sometimes that busyness is

9:57

the reason that you're having those

9:59

thoughts , or the feelings

10:02

, and so there's also

10:04

this balance that needs to

10:07

happen sometimes

10:09

, and I know that there's a lot of like

10:11

, for instance , right now , I just got through Girl Scout

10:13

cookie season . It was like , okay , when

10:16

this is over I will be able to

10:18

have more time for these

10:20

things . But I and my family

10:23

noticed that I was beginning to feel stressed

10:25

out , burnt out , a little bit irritated

10:27

. I just didn't have

10:29

the bandwidth for everything . And so

10:31

then at the end of that

10:34

, I knew that I had to take some time

10:36

to sift through all that , because

10:38

there was a lot of emotions that were coming up for

10:40

me that I didn't get a chance to deal with

10:42

. So

10:50

I feel like , at least in my life , there's kind of a cycle where you have to like stop and

10:52

then start to go through all of those things and then move

10:54

forward Like what did I learn from all of this

10:57

? What was going on ? How could I do this better

10:59

? How can we , as

11:01

moms , or

11:03

pregnant people that are becoming

11:05

moms and working through all of that

11:08

, decide when it's time

11:10

? Are there typical signs of

11:12

when it's time to slow down and

11:14

maybe stop pushing through , even

11:17

if you know you're like I just need to get to this end point

11:19

. Are there little tricks ? I mean you mentioned the sleeping

11:21

before you go to sleep end point . Is there a little ? Are there little tricks ? I mean you mentioned the

11:23

sleeping like before you go to sleep at night .

11:25

Yeah , I think you kind of mentioned

11:28

it , that that irritability like that when you

11:30

start . For me , I know . When I start feeling irritable

11:32

, when like I start getting like my body hurts

11:34

and I feel like , oh my gosh , I haven't worked out , or I just

11:37

feel like tightness , there's some physical

11:39

symptoms and signs for people and

11:41

then also some of the irritable emotions

11:43

. I think , as moms , we so

11:45

often , you know , put to the back

11:47

burner the self-care and

11:50

the taking time out and taking time out to deal

11:52

with some of these emotions , process , some of

11:54

these things going on in our lives and that's kind of what I preach

11:56

all about is how do we make time

11:58

in our life to do that ? Because if we don't

12:01

, it really does . It leads to burnout , it

12:03

makes us cranky , we end up yelling at our kids when

12:06

we really didn't want to , and then we feel guilty

12:08

and that cycle sort of continues . So

12:10

one of the ways that I like to think about it is

12:12

sort of like from an energetic perspective

12:15

, kind of like the woo around , like

12:17

there's energy in everything and

12:19

all of our different emotions have like

12:22

an energetic feel to it . And

12:24

so how can we try and stay

12:27

in the positive energy If we start feeling

12:29

ourselves like being pulled into some of the things

12:31

that feel like more negative , what

12:33

can we do to sort of reset , to kind

12:35

of constantly be bringing us back to

12:38

the sort of baseline so

12:40

that we're not getting overwhelmed

12:42

?

12:42

and dragged down .

12:45

Yeah , I love that . Yeah , and , like I said , one of the

12:47

things that I like to do is like think about this

12:49

at bed , right before bed or first thing when I wake

12:51

up . Like first thing when you wake up , to kind of set the

12:53

tone of the day , like , okay , I'm going to try and think of

12:55

something positive before I get out of bed

12:57

and then going to bed at night . You know , I think some

12:59

people would kind of argue that like , oh , I don't want to like

13:02

, if there's negative emotions , I don't want to think about it

13:04

, and you have to sort of balance it . If there's certain

13:06

things that are really going to kind of tip

13:08

your emotions over the edge , maybe that's not

13:10

the best time . You don't want to interrupt your sleep

13:12

. We also know that the brain processes

13:15

information throughout the day when we're sleeping

13:17

. So that's a good time to just acknowledge . Like

13:19

you know , I felt kind of mad today and

13:21

I'm just going to let that be there and sort

13:24

of see where it goes . Like your brain comes

13:26

across a bit while you're in your unconscious sleep

13:28

state .

13:29

Yeah , like what's going on there . Where'd that come from ? So

13:31

I'd like to go back to grief for

13:34

a little bit , because I love the mad , let's

13:37

touch on that later . I want to

13:39

go back to grief . That is a , I want to

13:41

say , hot topic for me personally as a labor

13:43

and delivery nurse and I think for

13:45

some people to experience the joy of having

13:47

the

14:09

baby that they desire

14:11

, and I feel

14:13

like there's a lot of

14:15

just like an internal battle that comes up

14:17

when , for instance , you've had a loss

14:20

and then you have the baby that

14:22

you desired , and there are thoughts that

14:24

come up a lot like I wouldn't have

14:27

this baby if it weren't for this

14:29

past loss . There's just so

14:31

much internal conflict that comes up when

14:33

I help moms that have experienced

14:35

a loss , or a big one

14:38

is if you have a

16:24

set of twins and one of them doesn't make it , either

16:27

before the due date and

16:29

then you deliver the other twin , or

16:31

if just during childbirth one twin

16:33

doesn't make it , it's very complicated

16:35

to try to hold the

16:37

joy of that baby and

16:40

the loss of the other . So

16:42

do you have some guidance

16:45

on how to work through those

16:47

two very overwhelming

16:50

emotions when ?

16:51

it comes to childbirth . Well

16:53

, the first thing that I'm thinking about is you

16:56

know , a lot of times we talk about grief

16:58

as an emotion , and it

17:00

certainly is , but I also want

17:02

people to think about it more as a process

17:04

. So , when we are grieving

17:07

we're feeling a whole myriad

17:09

of emotions and they come

17:11

and go in waves . So if anyone's familiar

17:14

with the stages of grief , you know it

17:16

talks about first we're in denial , there's

17:18

anger , there's depression

17:21

, there's bargaining , there's all these different stages

17:23

and we don't go through them in a linear fashion

17:25

. They come and go . So grief

17:27

is sort of an umbrella emotion that

17:30

holds a lot of other emotions

17:32

, so kind of like an onion , you know

17:34

, sort of peeling back the layers of an onion . We

17:36

have to look at processing each piece

17:39

of that grief , and it's

17:41

not just this one emotion , it's a whole

17:43

package of emotion . So I think that's important , first

17:45

of all , that anytime there's grief

17:47

, allowing yourself to know that there's going to be

17:49

a lot of different things that come and go in waves

17:52

, and then with the idea

17:54

of how do we hold the two different things

17:56

, the joy and the grief again just

17:58

recognizing that it's really important to give

18:00

space for both and

18:03

one doesn't outweigh the other

18:05

. They just simply are there at

18:07

the same time . And

18:09

again , just like more onions

18:11

, you know , you're peeling it back with the joy

18:13

that might trigger the grief

18:16

and the guilt of well wait , how

18:18

can I be happy if I'm

18:20

also grieving . You

18:27

can grieve , you know , this life that is here and that's present and that you've

18:29

been wishing for , that you've been waiting for , or

18:31

the life of the baby that makes it , while also feeling very devastated

18:34

and sad about maybe a

18:36

miscarriage in the past or maybe a twin that

18:38

doesn't survive . And just giving yourself

18:40

permission that because you feel one

18:42

doesn't mean you don't honor

18:44

the other . It's kind of a both and

18:47

situation .

18:49

Yeah , I hear moms

18:51

that have experienced this talk

18:53

about every milestone

18:55

of the baby that is with them

18:58

as bittersweet . So

19:00

you have the intense joy of

19:02

seeing your baby take their

19:04

first steps and the intense grief of knowing that you'll never see

19:06

that other baby take their first steps and the intense grief of knowing

19:09

that you'll never see that other

19:11

baby take their first steps , and

19:13

having that at the same time and

19:16

having to work through both emotions at

19:18

the same time . So what I think

19:20

I hear you say is holding space and trying

19:22

not to just push away that

19:25

very valid feeling

19:27

of grief , because now that that

19:29

has come up in this milestone

19:32

, this joy has come up , it

19:34

is also reminding you to

19:36

process that grief that maybe you

19:38

hadn't processed when you thought

19:41

about missing out on that

19:43

other baby's first steps and

19:45

the joy that you should have had with

19:48

that experience .

19:49

Yeah , yeah

19:51

, and just allowing all of that

19:53

, yeah , allowing all of that

19:56

, rather than comparing or judging

19:58

or thinking , okay , if I'm celebrating

20:00

this milestone with this baby that

20:02

I have in my life , does that mean I'm

20:05

forgetting about the other ? No , you

20:07

can celebrate and you

20:09

can feel sad , and again , that idea that grief

20:11

is a process , so it's going to come up at

20:14

anniversaries , it's going to come up at different

20:16

milestones , and if you can just

20:18

not judge it and just be like , oh , okay

20:20

, there you are , grief , there's the sadness

20:22

and what is the sort

20:25

of silver lining in that ? So you acknowledging

20:27

that there was a special connection with , maybe

20:29

, this baby that's not here and my

20:32

grief is painful , but it's also like

20:34

my point of connection .

20:35

I remember I

20:38

don't know if this is something that I learned

20:40

in a book I read or something like

20:42

that there was a part in my life where I had one

20:44

traumatic event after the other and

20:46

I was working through the losses

20:49

of multiple people at the same time

20:51

, and I noticed a

20:53

tendency when you

20:56

go to sleep at night , you've kind of processed

20:58

all the things that you could for the day . You

21:00

go to sleep at night , you've kind of processed all the things that

21:02

you could for the day . There's

21:07

relief in that , being able to kind of check your mind out and go to

21:09

sleep . But then when you wake up in the morning , I feel like there's a time period where

21:11

waking up in the morning is the hardest thing , because

21:13

you wake up and have to re-remember

21:17

what your new reality is . So

21:20

then I think I read somewhere

21:22

that the best thing you can do is to allow

21:24

yourself , like set a

21:26

timer and just have

21:28

the biggest cry , just like let

21:30

every single emotion out , feel

21:32

as much as you possibly can in that moment

21:35

, and then , once the time

21:37

, in order to not get caught

21:39

up in that , and like wallow in it all

21:41

day . Once the timer goes off , pull

21:43

yourself together , wash your face and move on . Allow

21:46

yourself that space every morning as

21:48

you're working through the grief , and

21:51

then you'll notice that the new

21:53

normal starts to feel normal

21:55

. I'm wondering if you have any other

21:57

guidance around that or anything else

21:59

that might come up to

22:01

help people through that process .

22:04

Yeah , no , I think that's really good . And I think

22:06

that really relates to what we were saying before

22:08

about how important it is to acknowledge

22:10

and allow space for this feeling

22:12

. So that's saying , okay , I've got

22:15

this feeling and I'm going to allow

22:17

it , but I'm also going to put a time limit

22:19

on it so that it doesn't consume me

22:21

, so that it doesn't overcome my day

22:23

. And I think this shows up so much in motherhood

22:25

. I think of times where

22:27

I get super frustrated with my kids

22:30

. They're not listening , whatever , and I'm like , okay

22:32

, I just I'm going to step in the bathroom for a

22:34

minute , close the door , take a deep breath and be like , okay

22:36

, I'm really irritated . Just

22:39

by being able to give a second to

22:41

allow that emotion , it sort

22:43

of takes care of it and

22:45

it allows it to be there and then you

22:47

can move on from a better place . And then the same with kids

22:49

too . I'm thinking

22:51

of when a toddler has a meltdown . We

22:54

often jump to

22:56

console them and to shift them out

22:58

of it . But can we for a moment

23:01

just acknowledge you know , wow , you're really

23:03

mad , you're really upset

23:05

, you're really upset that your toy broke or whatever

23:07

the situation is . Just let them be there for a moment

23:10

before we go on with our day

23:12

. So I think what you're saying is really important in that

23:14

anytime we have an emotion , letting

23:17

it be there , giving it some time , you

23:19

know , if it's one that has the potential to overwhelm

23:22

us , setting the time limit on it

23:24

. But so often we just try and

23:26

push past it or rush through it , or we get annoyed

23:28

that that emotion's there , or we feel somehow

23:30

inadequate or like , oh my gosh

23:32

, I'm a failure because I'm stressed , because I can't handle

23:34

this . So it really is all about

23:36

just allowing and acknowledging .

23:39

I want to go back to the guilt that some

23:41

emotions will bring up . So

23:44

I think that you touched on a bit

23:46

how to not judge yourself

23:48

when you have certain emotions

23:51

and we did talk a bit about trying

23:53

to figure out where they're coming from . But some of the mom

23:56

guilt comes from some of these emotions that

23:58

we have like irritated , mad

24:01

, annoyed . I think we

24:03

all struggle as moms how to try to push

24:05

away the guilty emotions . Do

24:07

you have any suggestions or guidance

24:09

on how to reframe

24:12

some of those emotions and or

24:15

work through them and hold

24:17

space without judgment ?

24:18

I think one of the things is just normalizing

24:20

mom guilt . It is so

24:23

common , it's

24:25

here to stay , it's not going anywhere

24:27

, so we can't necessarily talk ourselves

24:30

out of it , but we can acknowledge

24:32

it . And I think a lot of times when we talk in the therapy

24:34

world about reframing things , sometimes

24:37

there's a step that's missed , which is the acknowledgement

24:40

. Say , for example , I have done a lot of work in

24:42

the past with , like self-esteem , so say , your

24:45

sentence is oh my gosh , I'm so stupid

24:47

, I suck , we can't jump to

24:49

, I'm wonderful , I'm great , I like myself

24:51

. We have to just stop and acknowledge hey

24:54

, look at that , I was beating myself up

24:56

, okay . And then you can try

24:58

the shift . And I know it sounds so

25:00

simplistic , but that acknowledgement

25:02

piece is so big . And so

25:04

when we feel , okay , here's the mom

25:07

guilt . I was angry , I was irritable , I snapped

25:09

at my kids . Now I'm judging myself because

25:11

I'm being an impatient mom , I'm a terrible mother

25:13

, just stop and be like wait , there's that

25:15

mom guilt . This is so common , we

25:17

all have this , I'm normal . And

25:19

from there , from that acknowledgement that this

25:21

is a really common , normal experience

25:24

, I think from there you can have a

25:26

little more compassion for yourself

25:28

. And one thing that I always say is put

25:30

yourself in somebody else's shoes , like if it were

25:32

somebody else that had that , had this

25:34

situation , how would you be judging

25:36

that ?

25:37

Because we always judge ourselves . Yes

25:39

, we would never say

25:42

some of the things that we say in our

25:44

own life You're a failure . That's

25:46

really funny .

25:47

Yeah , if your best friend , you know

25:49

, got angry and snapped at her kids and was like

25:52

, oh my God , I'm the worst mom , you'd be like no

25:54

, you're a normal , you're a mom . You got

25:56

frustrated . So how can we give ourselves

25:58

that same acknowledgement , compassion

26:00

.

26:07

Yeah , I think it's funny because one of my coaches , my personal coaches . Every time I tell her all

26:09

the things that I've been telling myself , she's like so cool , how does it feel to be an

26:11

asshole to yourself ? And

26:13

I'm like it always puts it into

26:15

perspective for me . I'm like I am being an

26:17

asshole to myself . Why , why am

26:20

I doing that ? This makes no sense . And then so

26:22

if I reframe it and look at how

26:24

I would be speaking to , how I would

26:26

be evaluating another person in

26:28

the same situation , I'd

26:31

be like , oh my gosh , you're a rock star . Of

26:33

course you're having normal human emotions . We all do

26:35

.

26:35

Right , you're a human , yeah Right , you're a human . Rock star

26:37

human .

26:38

So , yeah , I love that and

26:40

it's a . I think that a lot of what we're saying might

26:42

be stuff that people already

26:44

know , but even for me and you

26:47

and people that talk about this

26:49

regularly , literally I

26:51

need that mirror every single time . I

26:53

mean , honestly , I'm an asshole to myself

26:55

every single day , and

26:58

I think we all are , and I think

27:00

we all need to remember and hear over

27:02

and over again how to

27:04

evaluate ourselves by the same metric

27:07

that we would use to evaluate and

27:09

help others . And , yeah

27:11

, I just think we're so hard on ourselves .

27:13

Yeah , and that's one thing that we can choose

27:16

to shift . We can't

27:18

choose to not have grief , we can't choose

27:20

to not feel joy and then feel guilty , but

27:23

we can choose to not be so harsh

27:25

on ourself for having all of those emotions

27:27

.

27:27

I think another part of the reframe is to try to figure

27:29

out where it's all coming from as well and

27:32

learn from it , you know , and ask

27:34

ourselves how it's serving us in the moment

27:36

, and is this causing

27:38

a cycle that goes back to the

27:40

undesirable outcome ? You

27:43

know like are we beating ourselves up and then getting

27:45

irritated and angry and shame , and

27:47

then it's like this whole spiral

27:49

that turns into more yelling at our kids because

27:52

of our internal processing of all

27:54

of this guilt . And so if we're able

27:56

to look at ourselves from the outside

27:59

and evaluate what's going on

28:01

as if we were caring for another

28:03

person , I think that we would do a whole

28:05

lot better for ourselves and there would be less mom

28:08

guilt and less yelling

28:10

and whatnot , right , yes

28:12

, can we just take a neutral approach to

28:15

looking at ourselves , looking at our emotions

28:17

, exactly ? I think we covered

28:20

most of what we had planned to talk about

28:22

, but or at least I don't have

28:24

any more questions that I can think of

28:26

. Was there anything that you

28:28

wanted in particular to address

28:31

that we haven't talked about yet ?

28:32

Not that comes to mind . I guess I could just go back

28:35

and probably just end up

28:37

saying the same things over and over again .

28:38

That's okay , because we need to hear them all the time , right

28:40

yeah ?

28:41

Just knowing that it's completely normal

28:44

to have multiple emotions

28:46

at the same time , when we can take the judgment

28:48

out of it , when we can just be curious

28:50

about huh , why

28:52

is that emotion showing up now ? How can I

28:54

best support myself through this emotion

28:57

in this moment ? That's when

28:59

we can move through them and that's another good

29:01

sort of therapy . Thing is like

29:03

it's not just like

29:05

an on-off switch on emotions . You have to move

29:07

through them , you have to process them , you

29:10

have to feel it to heal

29:12

it . So allow yourself to be

29:14

in these emotions and

29:16

if you're having a difficult time

29:19

doing that on your own , that's where

29:21

a therapist can come in to help . You know

29:23

, ask the curious questions

29:25

to help you move through it . I guess , one

29:27

other thing I'd love to add because this is so

29:30

important to the work in the work I do , is

29:32

the somatic component . Let's

29:37

just touch on that for a moment

29:40

is how so many of these emotions

29:42

show up for us physically and for people

29:44

who weren't really like emotions , weren't really

29:46

talked about in their family of origin or

29:49

there was like kind of a belief system

29:51

in the house . You're not allowed to feel angry

29:53

, you know . You're not allowed to feel sad . Sometimes

29:56

these emotions are really hard for people to get in

29:58

touch with and they'll come out in other ways , like

30:00

headaches or muscle aches

30:03

or you know , all kinds of different physical

30:05

ailments and situations

30:07

. So also be paying attention to your body

30:09

. When you are feeling a particular emotion , notice

30:12

where do you feel it in your body . This is something

30:14

I do , emdr , which is a somatic

30:16

therapy that really gets into

30:19

the physical sensations as well

30:21

as the thoughts and the emotions , and so

30:23

I'm constantly telling people okay

30:25

, if you're feeling grief say , you

30:28

did have a miscarriage or you lost a baby

30:30

and you're sad and you're grieving

30:32

, like , where do you physically feel that in

30:34

your body ? A lot of times for people it's like a lump

30:36

in the throat or a tightness in the

30:38

chest . So the more we can be aware

30:41

of that mind-body connection , the

30:43

better we can deal with it and process it . So

30:45

if somebody is telling me you know , okay , I have

30:47

this heaviness in my chest , we'll just

30:49

notice that . Put your hand on it , just

30:52

breathe through it a little bit , see how it shifts

30:54

Again . These , just like the emotions , the sensations

30:57

that go along with them , need to

30:59

be acknowledged .

31:00

Yeah , I think that's that's very important

31:03

and very interesting because I think

31:05

, talking to you the first time

31:07

, I knew in my brain

31:09

that the emotions were showing up in my body

31:12

, but being able to find

31:14

it and feel it and know

31:17

that when I feel that

31:19

sensation again , it may just be

31:21

my body telling me that I'm feeling that emotion

31:23

, so that may be . That emotion manifests

31:26

in that feeling before your brain even registers

31:28

consciously , absolutely

31:30

so I just think that that's so interesting

31:33

because of the whole trauma lives

31:35

in your body and your emotions can

31:38

show up as somatic feelings . I think that all from

31:41

what you have told me and what I've

31:43

learned , it all goes together and so that

31:45

when we can be more in touch with our bodies and

31:47

feel those feelings and

31:50

respond to them because we feel them in our body , I

31:52

find that incredibly helpful as well .

31:54

Yeah , yeah , and for some people they notice it as

31:56

an emotion first , some people notice it somatically

31:58

first , but what we do know is that it

32:00

gets stored at a cellular

32:02

level , physically in your body . These emotions

32:05

, these experiences , these memories . And

32:08

if you don't deal with it , if you don't do what we're

32:10

suggesting here , which is acknowledge the feeling

32:12

, give it space , process through it , your

32:15

body will start to develop

32:18

physical things that will literally be

32:20

like okay , you need to deal

32:22

with this this is going on .

32:24

Yeah , yeah , and I think that that's like you were talking

32:26

about . In your family of origin , you

32:28

grew up learning to suppress emotions . It

32:31

may show up very symptomatically

32:33

because the shame is

32:35

actually acknowledging the feeling

32:37

of the emotion . So you may have

32:39

been shamed growing up for being angry

32:42

or being sad or whatever it

32:44

was , and so , because your

32:46

brain doesn't want to process it because

32:48

of the shame , that shows up as

32:50

that lump in your throat , or is that chest pain

32:52

or whatever it is that ? For

32:54

me , it's a lot of shoulder

32:56

tension . So

33:00

, yeah , being able to figure out what those emotions

33:02

are is the first step to actually

33:05

working through them , right , yeah , well

33:07

, megan , if there's nothing else , I

33:10

always enjoy having these conversations . I

33:12

always learn something . I always

33:14

I'm like . I think I know it

33:16

all . And then Megan comes with a truth bomb

33:19

. We learn a whole lot more .

33:22

It's always so great talking to you and . I love

33:24

the work you do and I think you know

33:26

the more people that can just hear these messages in different . I think you know the more people

33:28

that can just hear these messages in different ways and

33:30

over and over , the more we can get better at

33:33

managing our own emotional

33:35

and mental well-being . Yeah , absolutely Well

33:38

thank you so much for joining me .