0:28

Hello , today I have with

0:30

me Taylor Nosacara . Taylor

0:33

is a prenatal coach , dula

0:35

a motherhood coach , a catering

0:38

chef and the host of the podcast

0:40

Driver's Seat Moms . She

0:43

is a mother of three kids under

0:45

six years old , with two on the way

0:47

, yep twins , second

0:49

set of twins . Her mission

0:51

is to help moms let go of the shoulds and

0:54

supposed tos surrounding birth and motherhood

0:56

so they can do pregnancy , birth

0:58

and motherhood their way . Today

1:01

she's here to share her birth stories and

1:03

how she balances career and motherhood . Taylor

1:06

welcome and thank you so much for joining

1:08

me .

1:09

Thank you for having me . I'm excited .

1:11

Yeah , I feel like you have a lot that

1:14

you can share with my listeners and

1:16

I'm really excited to hear about your birth

1:18

stories .

1:19

Yeah , so , gosh , it's

1:21

crazy to think back to the first one because that felt

1:23

like so long ago now . So my oldest son

1:26

is five and a half and

1:28

then I have twin boys that are two

1:31

and a half . So I

1:33

will tell both of their stories

1:35

and try not to make them take

1:37

forever , because I feel like I could tell the four

1:39

hour version or I could tell the 20 minute version

1:41

. So my first

1:43

son I had . So , yes

1:45

, I am a prenatal coach and a birth Dula . I

1:47

wasn't prior to my first son

1:49

being born , but I did have some prior

1:52

knowledge . So my mom was

1:54

a Dula for a little bit and a childbirth

1:56

educator , and so I

1:58

had a level of awareness prior

2:01

to getting pregnant

2:03

that there's options

2:05

and there's things to research

2:07

. And I feel like I went into that pregnancy

2:10

a little bit of a step ahead than

2:12

some moms , just in the sense of most

2:14

moms are like I have no idea what I don't know , whereas

2:16

I kind of knew what I didn't know

2:18

. But I did , I still didn't know it . So

2:22

when I got pregnant it

2:24

happened a lot faster than we anticipated

2:26

. We were not trying , not not

2:28

trying , and just we're like we'll start trying

2:31

in August and I think I was pregnant by July

2:33

. So I immediately

2:36

wanted to know everything about

2:38

everything , and at the time

2:40

I did not even know how to listen

2:42

to a podcast , but I'd heard of them . This

2:44

was in 2017 . So I was like kind

2:46

of late to the podcast game and

2:49

I googled how

2:51

do I listen to a podcast ? And

2:54

then I just started binging them and

2:56

learning everything about everything , and

2:58

as I was doing so , I realized

3:01

that midwifery care

3:03

was more the route that I wanted to go , and

3:05

there's one birth center in the

3:07

city where I lived there's actually two , but they

3:09

were it was two locations of the same birth

3:11

center and so

3:14

that's what I chose . I was

3:16

doing all of my prenatal care through the birth

3:18

center , with three midwives that rotate

3:21

, and I was

3:23

really excited about that . I ended

3:25

up hiring a doula who was a

3:27

friend of my mom's , who was also

3:30

a massage therapist , and

3:32

she trained with the doula

3:34

who was my mom's doula for my younger sisters

3:37

. So we kind of knew her already and

3:39

I was feeling really good

3:41

. I mean , the pregnancy was fairly easy

3:44

. I feel like I got really lucky in that regard

3:46

. I was teaching yoga at the time , so

3:48

I taught yoga throughout my whole pregnancy . I

3:50

did power yoga throughout my whole pregnancy

3:53

and then 39

3:55

ish weeks rolls around

3:58

and at the birth center they

4:00

have a protocol in place where

4:02

you cannot well , you cannot

4:04

deliver there if you're prior

4:06

to 37 weeks or past 42

4:09

weeks . So you know

4:11

, 39 , 40 weeks rolls around

4:14

and I'm starting to

4:16

get nervous that I'm not

4:18

going to be able to deliver at the birth

4:20

center . I knew that first

4:22

time moms typically go past

4:24

40 weeks . Due dates are guest dates

4:26

. I know those things , but still

4:29

, according to their protocols , I

4:32

was starting to get nervous . So at

4:34

41 weeks

4:36

we started doing all

4:39

the things to push my

4:41

body into labor and

4:43

it was extremely

4:47

stressful . I

4:49

look back on that week and when

4:51

I think about things that I would change

4:53

about my birth , it really is that

4:56

week and that stress , and

4:58

I don't know that

5:00

I would necessarily change that part in retrospect

5:03

, because the rule was the rule at the

5:05

birth center . But I do wish

5:07

I would have explored more options

5:09

outside of just simply , while

5:12

we're kicking you out of our care , you have to have a hospital

5:14

birth , which is not really what I wanted . So

5:17

we , like I said , did

5:19

all the things I did castor

5:22

oil , I think twice I

5:24

was on the breast pump a lot

5:26

. I had six

5:29

Foley bulb attempts , I

5:32

want to say in five days , and

5:35

so I did two tries in one

5:37

day . I was also in castor

5:39

oil that day , so it was just extremely uncomfortable

5:41

and I did all

5:44

of those things not so

5:46

much from like an evidence based place

5:48

of really

5:50

wanting to be done , being pregnant

5:52

, or feeling like my baby was not safe

5:54

or I was unhealthy , but really from this place

5:58

of like I want to have this baby at the birth center

6:00

, and ultimately

6:02

, none of it worked . None of it worked . My body

6:04

was not ready and at

6:07

41 and

6:09

six we made the call

6:11

to transfer because I wasn't in labor

6:13

yet , so that they typically

6:16

will transfer you with a midwife that they

6:18

have at the birth center and she has privileges

6:20

at the hospital . Well , she was unavailable

6:23

, and so they gave me two options

6:25

. You can transfer to hospital A and just

6:27

get whoever's on call , or

6:29

you can transfer to hospital B , which was

6:31

the option that I liked , less as far

6:34

as hospital goes , but

6:36

with an OB who is

6:39

very midwife like and

6:41

everybody loves her . She's great

6:43

. And so I

6:46

went ahead and chose that . It was a teaching

6:48

hospital , which I didn't love the idea of

6:50

like having students around and but

6:53

I was like , but I'll go for her because everybody

6:55

loves her . So I

6:57

went in at 10 o'clock

7:00

PM , right exactly

7:02

at 42 weeks , I think yeah , it

7:04

would have been 42 weeks and

7:07

they gave me the impression that I was

7:09

going to meet the doctor that night

7:11

. Well , she wasn't there and they're like

7:13

, oh well , we met , for teen was here and

7:15

I was like , oh well , that's not the same thing . So

7:18

I call my midwives , crying

7:20

, like on the emergency line . I'm like

7:22

this isn't what I thought it was going to be

7:24

. I felt like from the second I walked in

7:26

the door I had to become

7:29

in like defense mode , which was not

7:31

what I wanted , and that was really tough

7:33

because a lot of the things in my birth

7:36

plan I knew I wasn't

7:38

going to have to really ask for or

7:40

advocate for in the birth center , but they were

7:43

things that were not standard in

7:45

this hospital , which

7:47

is part of why I didn't choose that hospital

7:50

to begin with . Even simple things

7:52

, little things , were

7:54

getting under my skin which , looking

7:57

back , I wish I wouldn't have let

7:59

them , but I was just kind of angry

8:01

to have to be there and so

8:04

I wasn't necessarily making

8:06

friends and finally

8:08

got settled . They told me I was going to meet

8:11

the doctor in the morning . I

8:13

got a cervical ripener . I

8:15

got a servidil , which I had to fight

8:17

for because they

8:20

really , really wanted me to

8:22

start with cytotech and I really

8:24

did not want to . So finally

8:27

got them to order the servidil and got

8:29

the servidil . And my

8:32

night nurse was absolutely phenomenal

8:34

. She was so sweet and gentle

8:36

and let me sleep

8:38

and came in so quietly and she was like

8:45

okay , this is going to be okay . The

8:47

next day at around 9am

8:49

I met the doctor , loved her

8:51

Great first impression , made

8:54

me feel so good about things . She's

8:57

like , yeah , go ahead and eat , do your

8:59

thing . Like I have clinic

9:01

, I'll come back and check in . If

9:03

you need anything , call me . And so

9:05

things were kind of moving

9:07

and grooving along . Contractions

9:10

weren't really happening for me . So

9:13

ultimately we did choose

9:16

to move to adding in pitocin

9:18

to the mix because I wasn't

9:20

having contractions and I will say

9:22

too , I was

9:25

not super comfortable

9:27

at the time , going

9:30

too much past 42 weeks . So

9:32

, as a lot of you

9:35

know , as you know , and some

9:37

of you listening might know that risks

9:39

do increase as you go further

9:42

past 42 weeks

9:44

and as a first time mom I wasn't

9:46

really comfortable with the risks

9:48

of going past 42 weeks , so

9:50

that was also part of my motivation

9:52

to get things going . I

9:55

do wish retrospectively , I would have learned

9:57

a little bit more about that actual risk

9:59

and how that risk pertained

10:02

to me specifically and what the actual numbers

10:04

were . Maybe I would have felt a little bit more

10:06

comfortable with that risk , but at the

10:08

time I wasn't , and so we

10:12

started pitocin and it

10:15

just wasn't doing anything . I think we

10:17

ended up cranking it all the way up and

10:20

ultimately throughout

10:23

that next day . So this is

10:25

Friday . It was an

10:27

emotional roller coaster . I was

10:30

fine and then I

10:32

would have an emotional breakdown and

10:35

it felt like throughout the

10:37

course of the day my

10:39

doctor got less

10:41

and less inviting

10:43

, like less patient , less

10:46

. The things that I felt

10:48

about her when I first met her that morning

10:50

kind of started to fade

10:52

throughout the day and it

10:55

sucked because everybody told me she's

10:57

very midwife , like she's not going

10:59

to push interventions on you , she's the

11:02

most natural OB in the

11:04

city . And as

11:06

the day progressed I was just starting to

11:08

feel like that was not the case

11:10

, she

12:56

really wanted to break my water because

12:58

she wanted to put an internal monitor

13:00

on because the pitocin was so

13:02

high . So we wanted to make sure that my contractions

13:05

were doing what they were supposed to do

13:08

and baby was tolerating them Okay

13:10

. So eventually

13:12

I think that was like in the evening , friday

13:14

evening I finally

13:16

allowed her to break my water and

13:19

I vividly remember a conversation

13:21

that just

13:25

stands out as being one

13:27

of the traumatic parts of

13:29

my birth experience , which

13:31

was her asking

13:34

me like we sat down

13:36

by the window I remember it so

13:38

vividly my husband was sitting there and my

13:40

mom and Dula I'm pretty sure we're like across the room

13:42

and she's like well , what's your end

13:45

game ? And I

13:47

was just so shook by that question

13:49

. I was like what do you mean ? Like

13:52

my end game is to have a baby . I don't understand

13:54

the question . And at

13:56

the time I was still

13:59

looking great , my blood pressure was good , like

14:01

I was handling things fine and my baby's

14:03

heart rate was fine , like everything

14:06

was fine . So I

14:08

was very confused by this . And

14:11

when my husband

14:13

kind of started to side with

14:15

her of like well , she just wants to know

14:17

, like what's the plan , what's the end game , and

14:19

I was like I don't know , be here

14:21

for four days until I have a baby . If I

14:23

have to , if I'm fine and my baby's

14:26

fine , I will do this as long as it takes

14:28

, and I don't think she likes that answer

14:30

. And so

14:32

finally I got my husband to understand

14:35

where I was coming from and

14:37

all in all we stopped

14:39

pitocin , I wanna say , because

14:41

we had cranked it up all the way , broke

14:44

my water , put the internal monitor in

14:46

and then restarted the pitocin . And

14:48

the timeline gets a little fuzzy for me

14:50

, but thankfully

14:52

my mom and my doula were there and they were helping

14:54

me through all this emotional stuff . I don't know what I would

14:56

have done without them and my husband . But

14:58

the next step after that was

15:01

things were getting just

15:04

really , really hard . It's weird because I kind

15:07

of blacked this part out and I had

15:09

to actually like ask a lot

15:11

of family and friends , the people that were there

15:13

, what happened during this

15:15

time , because I truly don't remember

15:17

. But eventually I think

15:19

I ended up asking

15:22

for a C-section because I

15:24

was so . I know I was physically

15:26

tired , I know I'm sure the pitocin

15:29

contractions were getting to me , but

15:31

I kind of don't even remember that , I

15:33

just remember the emotional pressure of I

15:35

just don't wanna be here . I feel like

15:37

it's an uphill battle and feel like I'm having

15:39

to advocate for everything that I want . I

15:42

don't wanna be here and I just

15:44

want it to be done , and my

15:46

doula recommended that

15:49

I get an epidural so that I could

15:51

just take it . So after

15:53

going in the bathroom and crying

15:55

and talking to my husband about it because

15:57

I really didn't want a

16:00

medicated birth I ultimately was

16:02

like okay , yes , like that's probably

16:04

better than just opting for a C-section at this

16:06

time . Because one thing I guess I haven't mentioned

16:08

is at the time I wasn't

16:10

progressing very much . My contractions were happening

16:13

, but I think 24

16:15

or more hours in I was still

16:17

only at like a five , and

16:19

I think I had been a five for

16:21

the last 12 hours

16:24

or something . I just was not progressing

16:26

. Knowing what I know now , I'm like

16:28

baby was probably in a funky

16:30

position . I probably should have done some

16:32

spinning babies , tried some different positions

16:34

, but at the time I think I just

16:37

was in like advocacy mode I

16:39

don't even know how to explain it and so

16:41

I got the epidural and

16:43

it was pretty early

16:45

Saturday morning and I had fallen asleep

16:48

finally and the

16:50

nurse came in and I loved

16:52

my daytime nurses that

16:54

day as well . They came in and

16:56

I could hear them through my sleep , kind

16:59

of talking to my mom , saying baby's

17:01

heart rate looks great , contraction pattern

17:04

looks great . You know now that we've bumped

17:06

the toast and back up , everything's looking great

17:08

. And they left the

17:10

room and at the time my doula had gone home

17:12

to sleep and my husband was in

17:15

the car sleeping , I think like

17:17

in the parking garage . And then

17:19

my doctor walks in and she

17:21

my mom is sitting next to the bed , on the

17:23

other side of the bed and she very gently

17:26

like squats by me and quietly

17:29

is like wakes me up from

17:31

this , like dead sleep nap that

17:33

I so desperately needed

17:36

. So that was like first strike

17:38

, don't wake me up . And

17:40

she says to me so

17:43

the contractions aren't really

17:45

doing what we want them to do , they're

17:47

not really that effective , so

17:50

we really need to think about

17:52

a C-section at this point . And this

17:54

was around noon on Saturday morning

17:56

and had she said that

17:58

and the nurses not just said what they said

18:00

, I probably would have gotten a C-section

18:03

, to be completely honest , and in

18:05

that moment of super vulnerability , extreme

18:08

exhaustion , I said yes . I

18:10

was like , yeah , yeah , okay . Like

18:13

I was literally half asleep when she was asking

18:15

me this question , which , looking back

18:17

, just like pisses me off . But

18:19

thank God my mom was standing right there . And

18:22

my mom says , well , are

18:24

you sure that's what you want ? Like maybe we should get your

18:26

husband in here , maybe we should get

18:28

your doula back in here

18:30

and like talk about this . And the doctor

18:33

completely disregarded my mom , didn't

18:35

even look at her and

18:37

just kept talking to me and I

18:39

said , yeah , actually that's

18:41

a good idea . Like I was kind of starting to wake

18:43

up out of my dead asleep nap and I was

18:46

like , yes , let's get him in here , let's chat

18:48

about this . So my

18:50

doctor left and my husband

18:52

got in , the doula got in and

18:55

my aunt who was there she

18:57

had come in from Des Moines I'm in Kansas

18:59

City she had come down from Iowa and

19:02

she was gonna encapsulate my placenta

19:04

for me and she showed up at the hospital cause

19:06

at this point we're like bring him the backup

19:08

. And she had been a doula for years . And

19:11

so she showed up and

19:13

I just like all of a sudden had all

19:16

of these people around me that were like you're fine

19:18

, your babies are fine , like you've got your nap

19:20

, you've got the epidural . Now let's

19:23

do this . Like we can do this

19:25

. We can still very much have a vaginal

19:27

birth . This is totally

19:29

still on the table . And I was like , okay , let's

19:31

do it . So the doctor walked back

19:33

in and I said to her okay

19:36

, we're gonna keep going , we're

19:38

gonna keep trying and getting different

19:41

positions and do all the things . And she

19:43

was pissed . So she said

19:45

to me and I might misquote this

19:47

a little bit , but it was very close to this so

19:50

you're actually gonna do something now , because

19:52

you haven't been doing anything for

19:54

the last however many hours

19:57

. So I think she thought I

19:59

wasn't doing anything . Oh

20:01

, I had actually asked to turn the pitocin

20:03

off a second time when I was waiting for the epidural

20:06

. When I finally agreed to the epidural , I

20:08

had asked can we please turn the pitocin

20:10

off while I wait for the anesthesiologist ? Because

20:12

if I'm gonna get the epidural I might as well

20:15

just wait to have this pitocin

20:17

on . So I think she knew I had turned

20:19

the pitocin off twice . Once was my choice

20:21

, once was because they

20:23

were gonna break my water and then

20:25

I guess I had taken a nap and that

20:27

was not enough for her . So she

20:30

kind of huffed off in this angry

20:32

mood . I'm like , well

20:35

, you're actually gonna do something now

20:37

. So , okay , I mean , I guess

20:39

. And throughout , like I said

20:41

, from the time I met her at 9 am the

20:43

morning before to then , she

20:45

had gotten progressively less nice

20:48

and her bedside manner

20:51

had gotten worse , and every single time

20:53

she came in the room her vibe

20:55

was just bringing this negative energy . It

20:57

was just very visceral , for me

20:59

at least , of this is not the

21:01

energy I want . In the room I would feel myself

21:04

tensing up , which is obviously increasing

21:06

cortisol and decreasing oxytocin

21:08

and slowing down labor . And I

21:10

said to the nurse I don't want her , she

21:12

cannot come back . And my mom was

21:14

even like , if you needed a C-section

21:17

, I wouldn't really want her to do it , cause at this

21:19

point she's kind of like mad at you , because

21:21

I'm pretty sure she was called

21:23

to be there . She had to stay until

21:26

I had the baby because she was

21:28

the doctor associated with the birth

21:30

center , so I don't think she could just leave

21:32

when her 12 hours was

21:34

up , I think she actually had to like stay , and

21:37

so she was pissed and

21:39

I said she's not allowed back in my room

21:42

. And the nurse was like , oh okay

21:44

, well , we'll keep her away and then

21:46

, when you're ready to push , we'll just bring her in

21:48

right at the end and I said , absolutely fucking

21:50

not , she's not allowed back in here . Find

21:52

me who else is here , like I don't care who

21:55

it is , it's not her . And that felt

21:57

really really good in that moment and

21:59

I think I had like a weight lifted off with me

22:01

to just know that she wasn't coming back , which

22:04

sucks . It sucks so hard because

22:06

she was literally the reason that I chose

22:08

that hospital in the beginning , and so

22:11

we just kept doing the do with the

22:13

epiduralin . But everybody was helping me

22:15

get into really good positions on the peanut

22:17

ball and even doing some hands

22:19

and knees on the bed . I had a lot of help . I

22:21

was keeping my dosage really , really low on that

22:23

epidural and I got to the point where I

22:25

was like I need to poop

22:27

. But I didn't know this at the time

22:30

, but looking back now it wasn't the

22:32

baby is coming poop , like

22:34

feeling that you know we in this

22:36

space are like , yes , you're so excited

22:39

, you need to poop . I just felt kind of uncomfortable

22:41

and I knew that I just kind of needed to clear

22:43

out I think I needed to like clear out

22:45

before baby could come . And I

22:47

think I just intuitively knew that and

22:50

, of course , because I had the epidural , they

22:52

were like well , it's okay , you can just do

22:54

it . Like we'll bring you a bedpan . And I was like

22:56

no , no , no , that's not gonna work for

22:58

me . I need to go to the toilet . And they

23:00

were like we can't do that , you have an

23:02

epidural . So my mom even asked can

23:05

we get like a bedside commode that

23:07

we can help her onto ? And I

23:09

was like that's not really what I want , but

23:11

I guess , if that's all you guys can give me

23:13

Cause , I also felt , I think , at that point

23:16

, like maybe my body was craving privacy

23:18

, like I just needed to

23:20

like lock myself in the bathroom or something

23:22

, and that was unconsciously there . So

23:24

they were like we'll go ask . They came

23:27

back no , we can't do the bedside commode . I'm

23:29

like okay . So I left , I

23:31

showed my mom , I was like I put

23:33

my feet on the bed and I like was lifting

23:36

my hips and I'm like look , mom , I can

23:38

move . Look at this . And I'm not

23:40

recommending this to anyone . And I'm sure

23:42

, as a labor and delivery nurse , you are like freaking

23:45

out as I tell this story , I started to get

23:47

off the bed and crawl to the bathroom . So

23:50

I literally my mom's like what

23:52

? Are you ? doing . I'm like I'm crawling

23:54

, you won't help me walk there , I'm

23:56

going to fucking crawl . But I'm

23:59

going to the toilet and the

24:01

nurses rush in and they're like , okay , well , like , let

24:03

us like unhook you , like you're hooked up

24:05

to shit . And I'm like , okay , that's valid

24:07

. Like do what you need to do , unhook me . They

24:09

take me into the bathroom , they help me get

24:12

on the toilet , and then everybody's

24:14

like in the bathroom and I'm like , well , you guys

24:16

have to leave . I can't have you all in here

24:18

or else this is pointless . So I

24:20

think they gave me maybe

24:22

like two or three minutes

24:24

by myself , and

24:26

I mean I'm sure they were like all right

24:28

outside the door , but it was enough . I

24:30

don't even think that I pooped , but I just like I

24:33

let a lot go . It must

24:35

have been emotion , it must have just been like

24:37

pelvic floor tension , maybe

24:39

being able to just sit on the toilet

24:41

. I don't know what , but that three

24:44

minutes in the bathroom , plus , I think , firing

24:46

my doctor , changed the game for me

24:48

. And when I got back to the bed

24:50

and this had to have been mid to

24:52

late afternoon on Saturday , very

24:54

soon after that I got checked

24:56

I was dilated to seven , and

24:59

that was the first time . Like there's a photo

25:01

of my husband . He's like that was the first time that

25:03

I I was like , oh my God , this is happening

25:05

. I'm actually gonna have this vaginal birth . I'm

25:07

past a five , finally . So we kept

25:10

doing all the positions , all the

25:12

things . Eventually I got to a nine

25:14

and then I think I had a cervical

25:17

lip potentially , and we were doing some practice

25:19

pushing and at this point

25:21

there was literally so many people there

25:24

and I'm not even talking like hospital

25:26

staff . I think my mother-in-law has

25:28

shown up , I think my sister

25:30

had shown up Like she had come

25:32

back because she was there in early labor

25:34

and then she had come back . I did not even know

25:37

. I don't think that all these people were there at this point

25:39

and we had a big corner

25:41

room and they almost kicked

25:43

a lot of the people out , but they ended up where

25:46

, like we'll just squish everybody in my corner oh

25:48

, my birth photographer . I had a birth photographer

25:50

that showed up , like literally

25:52

thinking back on it , and

25:54

as a doula now who's been in many hospital

25:57

rooms , I'm like I don't know

25:59

how the hell there was that many people in

26:01

a room but they all like

26:03

squished into the corner and I finally got to start

26:05

pushing and I started on my side

26:07

, ended up on my back . I remember thinking I

26:09

don't really want to push in my back , but at the time

26:11

I just did not care and at that time

26:14

I was extremely exhausted , couldn't

26:16

feel much , don't think I really knew how to

26:18

push and I ended up needing like

26:20

oxygen mask in between pushing

26:23

just because it was so strenuous

26:25

. I think my baby had to have been in

26:27

there in a really , really weird position . Well

26:29

, he actually did have a nuchal hand , so his hand

26:31

was by his face and maybe that was part

26:33

of it . But I'm sure he was like his

26:35

head wasn't flexed or he was asymptotic

26:38

or something I don't know . But my

26:40

husband said they were just like pouring

26:42

lube down there and like you

26:45

were just obviously needing the oxygen . Everybody

26:47

was there helping me . I remember my husband

26:49

saying get after it . And I'm

26:51

thinking like why the fuck would you

26:54

say that ? But

26:56

I'm like I guess that's what I needed to hear in the moment

26:58

or whether it was or wasn't . That's what he

27:00

was saying . And then , yeah

27:02

, he eventually was born

27:04

. I think I pushed for about 30

27:07

minutes but it felt like forever

27:10

. I remember at one point his head was

27:12

starting to come out and they were like , do you wanna feel his head

27:14

? And I felt it and

27:16

I said it's so squishy

27:18

. And my husband

27:20

said one of the first things he thought when he finally

27:22

came out was oh man , I'm gonna have to

27:25

love that kid , cause his head was so

27:27

misshapen and I'm like , dude

27:29

, their heads go back to normal . Like

27:31

how did he not know that ? Like

27:34

the hat was , like he had this huge dome head

27:36

in the hat , like barely even sat on the end

27:38

of it , and he was just like , oh man , I'm gonna have

27:40

to love that kid . We did not know

27:42

if there was a boy or a girl . I

27:45

, we really really thought it was a girl

27:47

and my husband goes damn

27:50

, he has a fat sack and I'm

27:52

like , okay , so it's

27:54

not a girl . So these are the things

27:56

, that , the joys of the things

27:58

my husband said . And he did

28:00

not come out breathing . I

28:02

don't think I knew I wanted skin to skin

28:04

. He was kind of more on my abdomen

28:07

, cause the umbilical cord length , I think , and wasn't

28:09

breathing . So about

28:11

a minute later cause I wanted to

28:14

delay the clamping as much as possible , and

28:16

at that point I think I was just in such relief to

28:18

get him out that anything that I wanted

28:21

at that point just kind of went out the window

28:23

. I was like I , he's just here

28:25

. And I remember , even

28:27

though he wasn't breathing , and they ended up cutting

28:29

the cord and taking him to the warmer , I

28:32

remember not feeling any worry

28:34

. I remember just laying there feeling

28:36

like he's going to be fine . This is , this is

28:38

totally fine . Like sometimes babies just have

28:41

a lot of fluid . It takes them a

28:43

minute . I remember not being worried at

28:45

all and I kind of want to wrap up this

28:47

story but like I did end

28:49

up having a retained placenta , a

28:52

hemorrhage , and I ended up going back through

28:54

a DNC about 30 minutes after

28:57

he was born , probably because I

28:59

think it was a multitude of factors . They

29:02

were doing a lot of manual traction

29:04

, which I did not want . They actually

29:06

pulled the umbilical cord off my placenta

29:08

and I had had

29:10

Potosin for a

29:12

long fucking time over a day and a half

29:14

and so I'm sure my uterus was just like

29:17

done and so wasn't

29:19

clamping down . So I did go back for a DNC

29:21

. But I also just remember

29:24

in that moment just not feeling

29:26

worried . And it's so

29:28

interesting because , even though you might

29:30

consider some of those things traumatic you

29:32

hemorrhaged and you went back for a DNC None

29:35

of my trauma that is associated

29:37

with that birth comes from that . It

29:39

all comes from those conversations

29:42

where I felt like I wasn't being seen or heard

29:44

by my doctor and even , for

29:46

in a few moments , by my husband , when

29:48

I felt like I was having to advocate for myself

29:51

in moments where I didn't want

29:53

to , when I felt like people who should have

29:55

been on my side were on my side . Those are

29:57

the things that I look back

29:59

on and have feelings about , whereas

30:02

the blood loss and things like that

30:04

I'm trying to like yeah , that was probably traumatic

30:06

for everyone else that was watching , but it wasn't

30:08

really for me . And my mom at

30:11

the time was a lactation consultant

30:13

. She's an IBCLC and

30:15

because we had done so much pumping

30:17

prior to labor to

30:20

try to get labor started , we had collected some

30:22

colostrum and we had brought it with us , so

30:24

my mom was able to give him colostrum

30:26

While I was back there for the DNC

30:29

. We have some really cute pictures of that where

30:31

, like , my husband is skin to skin with him and

30:33

she is feeding like syringe , feeding him drops

30:35

of colostrum so we didn't

30:37

have to supplement . When I came

30:39

back , she was getting him latched on to

30:41

me , even though my husband said I looked dead , like

30:43

I was white as a ghost and

30:45

not able to breastfeed him . She

30:48

did all of it . She's like maneuvering

30:50

him in my boob and all of it . So I was so grateful

30:52

for that , and I think

30:54

recovery from that was pretty hard

30:56

, like that first week , just because I had lost

30:59

so much blood . I ended up getting an iron

31:01

IV but I did not need a blood transfusion

31:04

. So if that gives

31:06

any context to how much blood I lost

31:08

, I guess it wasn't enough to need a transfusion or

31:10

I just didn't need it . At one point

31:12

, I think the doctor was up

31:14

to her elbow in my uterus

31:17

prior to going back for the DNC , and

31:19

so I'm really glad I had an epidural for that

31:21

part , because I've heard women that have retained

31:24

placentas that don't have epidural say that that's

31:26

worse than the child births for sure . So

31:28

that was my first experience , and

31:31

so it led to

31:34

a lot of reasons

31:36

why I do the work I do

31:38

now , not from this place of

31:40

I wanna save women , or

31:43

I think some doulas get into it for

31:45

a little bit of the wrong reasons and

31:47

I never , ever had the

31:49

intention of bringing my trauma like into

31:51

my work or into another mom's birth

31:54

space , but it more

31:56

so came from this place of holy

31:58

shit . I learned so much

32:01

throughout my pregnancy and birth process

32:03

that literally my friends don't

32:05

know the mom I talk to doesn't know

32:07

. Like people don't know these options , people

32:09

don't know they can fire their doctor , people don't

32:11

know they can ask for

32:13

things . They don't know , they just don't

32:16

know . And the

32:18

uphill battle that I faced I was just like

32:20

I have to help women be

32:23

able to navigate these choices

32:25

. So , yeah , I don't know if you wanna touch on any of

32:27

that before I made this .

32:29

I was writing down a lot of things , so

32:31

a couple of things I wrote down and

32:33

probably you'll touch on this later . But I feel like

32:35

what you're communicating was that your focus

32:37

at the beginning was delivering at the

32:39

birth center was the goal , and that that may have been

32:41

a big source of the stress . And then

32:44

I'm assuming that , because you've learned

32:46

since then how to frame your

32:48

expectations and plan your

32:50

birth , you now probably

32:52

help people plan for all of the contingencies

32:55

at this point in order to eliminate

32:57

that stress .

32:59

Yeah , that is definitely something we work

33:01

on . We talk about different

33:03

things that could happen , but

33:05

more so because

33:07

it's impossible to go down every single rabbit

33:09

hole that could happen . Part of my framework

33:12

is starting with how

33:14

you want to feel , and so we go through

33:16

this entire list of journaling prompts . We

33:18

talk about fears , we talk about preconceived

33:20

notions , we talk about how do you

33:22

want the experience to feel and

33:24

how can we get back to those feelings

33:26

, no matter what the circumstances

33:29

are . So no matter what curveballs

33:31

get thrown your way , how do we get back

33:34

to those feelings ? So

33:36

, if plans change , if circumstances

33:39

arise , you can remember

33:41

, okay , well , this is how I want to feel in this moment

33:43

. So this is the choice I'm gonna make so

33:45

that I can feel that way , if that makes the most

33:48

sense .

33:48

Take back control yeah control

33:51

what you can Exactly yeah , yeah

33:53

, I think everybody focuses on the wrong part of control

33:55

. And so then and it sounded like

33:57

I mean so kind of this goes into

34:00

the conversation that your doctor

34:02

had with you that kind of led to her not coming

34:04

back to the room . Well , the first one , the one

34:06

where she wanted to rupture your membranes before

34:08

you were ready , I feel like just what

34:11

from what I heard from you is

34:13

, had that been explained a little bit better , you

34:15

may have been more open to that

34:17

option . When we say what is your end game

34:19

, that is a little bit threatening . So

34:22

a little bit of explanation

34:24

as to the thought process

34:26

of why we might be going

34:28

down that route and what the other options

34:30

are and how we can continue

34:33

to proceed towards a vaginal

34:35

birth would have been better . And

34:37

also just my assumption , like

34:39

you said , that she's a private practice

34:41

and wanting to get out of there . I feel

34:43

like if you're a private practice

34:46

provider , you might wanna be

34:48

a little bit more cognizant of those conversations

34:50

and have some backup plans as well , Because

34:53

rushing people into interventions

34:55

just so you can get home isn't what you

34:57

sign up for as a private provider

34:59

.

35:01

And that's what it felt like . I felt like they

35:03

were talking to me in circles , and the reason

35:05

why they couldn't give me a straight answer is because the

35:08

straight answer would have been you're just

35:10

taking too long , and that

35:12

was not good enough for me .

35:13

Yeah , and I don't know how the pay structure works , but

35:15

I think that they get paid for deliveries . So

35:19

she probably wasn't exactly happy with

35:21

having to be there and not being

35:24

paid or getting call pay

35:26

or something ridiculous . Or maybe she was on salary

35:28

or something where , just like , the pay structure makes

35:30

it so that providers don't wanna

35:33

be there waiting for someone to deliver for

35:35

days . But that's how the

35:37

body works sometimes . So

35:39

when you had your servidil

35:41

out , do you remember how dilated you were when they started

35:44

the pitocin ?

35:45

I think I was probably

35:47

. Oh my God , you know what I

35:49

totally missed . I also had

35:51

a cook balloon placed .

35:53

Oh , okay , so they did that and they were able to

35:55

. You were dilated enough . Well , you were

35:57

always dilated enough to get that in , because you did that

35:59

before right .

36:01

Yeah , after five attempts , or

36:03

after six attempts , they finally got the fully

36:05

bull bin at the midwives office . So when I

36:07

went in I was like a centimeter dilated

36:09

. They did the servidil and then they placed

36:12

a cook balloon . Oh my gosh , I can't

36:14

believe I forgot . And so the

36:16

cook balloon fell out around three centimeters and

36:18

then I think I must have been around after four or four

36:20

when they started pitocin .

36:22

Okay , I was gonna say if it was too early

36:24

it was never gonna happen , but you were a mechanical dilated

36:27

three or four , so it takes

36:29

a while . Some of the things that came

36:31

up for me when you were talking about the pitocin not working at

36:33

first and then having to stop

36:35

and then start again did you

36:37

feel like you're contracting , or was it maybe just like

36:39

? I don't know . This is this thing that

36:41

nurses do when the pitocin's not

36:43

working , we just get a new bag . It

36:46

just seems like maybe they forgot the pitocin

36:49

, like the bag that they

36:51

mixed with pitocin . Maybe the manufacturer

36:53

forgot to actually put the pitocin in .

36:55

Yeah , no , I maybe

36:58

. Once I got up around like 15

37:01

, I was starting to feel

37:04

contractions . But I

37:07

remember there was a good solid three hours

37:09

of probably being on pitocin where

37:11

I don't

37:14

think I felt much of anything

37:16

, did not have an epic earlier

37:18

, was not feeling contractions

37:20

. They actually asked to check me again

37:23

and I was like why , I

37:25

promise you I have not dilated , like

37:28

nothing is happening . And they're like

37:30

you know , and they just kind of like kept

37:33

pushing the vaginal check and finally I was

37:35

like fine , check me had

37:37

not dilated , I'm still a five and I'm

37:39

like I told you like I feel nothing

37:41

, there's nothing happening . So

37:44

there's definitely a chance . I'm like

37:46

maybe they did forget it .

37:49

Or maybe it was just like they didn't put the right dose or something

37:51

in Cause .

37:52

yeah they cranked me all the way up

37:54

to I think it was 20 or whatever the max is

37:56

that's allowed there , and then that's when they're

37:59

like we can't crank it up anymore

38:01

without the intern .

38:02

Right . Yeah , that's pretty standard practice

38:04

, but I think that could have been framed a little bit differently

38:07

. I'm curious have you had patients that that

38:09

has happened to and you've had maybe a different opinion

38:11

? Now that you , what specifically ?

38:13

has happened to .

38:15

So that maybe they get to 20 of pitocin

38:17

and they're offering the internals and the rupture

38:20

of membranes . I wonder if you've had a different experience

38:22

with that .

38:23

I'm trying to think if I've had any

38:25

clients that have had that happen

38:27

, but I honestly don't think I have . I

38:30

feel like the pitocin eventually starts working

38:32

, or or even like

38:34

if they break their water . Yeah , I counsel

38:37

clients about breaking the water differently

38:39

if they have an epidural than if they don't . Cause

38:42

my mom , I want to avoid an epidural

38:44

. I counsel them over the fact that

38:46

, like , once you break the water , these contractions

38:48

are going to get more intense and so if

38:50

you're wanting to stay unmedicated , you might want

38:52

to avoid them breaking your water and

38:55

then my mom's with epidurals already

38:57

. I just let them know that

38:59

, like , breaking the water could

39:01

help . It also might not

39:03

help and it might put you on a time clock and

39:05

it's just good to know . And if

39:07

you're poor enough along and babies low

39:09

enough , especially like a bulgy

39:12

bag , like breaking the water

39:14

might actually we might have a baby

39:16

in an outbreak , you know , versus

39:18

you're dilated to a five baby's

39:21

still high in the pelvis . I

39:23

don't really feel like breaking the water . It's not wise , it's

39:25

not really going to help you right now . Yeah

39:27

, that's what they want to do , because that's kind of

39:29

their next step . They don't have anything

39:32

else to offer you . But

39:34

you don't have to say yes .

39:36

Right . So then you had the Potosin break

39:38

, and then they broke your water .

39:40

Yeah , I think it was like we've cranked

39:42

it all the way up , but we're going to turn it off

39:44

, break your water and

39:47

restart . Okay , that makes sense . Break

39:50

your water and turn the monitor on and then

39:52

restart .

39:52

So that we know that Potosin's doing something

39:55

, doing something exactly . And

39:57

where was your baby's head in the pelvis , do you know ? Did they

39:59

tell you before they broke your water ? They

40:01

probably didn't tell you , I don't remember .

40:02

They may have told me and I just have no idea

40:05

. I do really think that

40:07

like some spinning babies , probably

40:10

some lunging , I

40:12

was changing positions

40:14

and doing stuff like on the birth ball and stuff , but

40:16

I don't think I was doing any well .

40:18

I might have been doing like asymmetrical

40:21

type of movement at that point

40:23

I just don't really Well , but you had a compound presentation

40:26

, so anything you did was still going to be

40:28

a challenge .

40:28

Yeah , and I and at the time

40:30

, spinning babies wasn't really very

40:33

well known about they actually

40:35

came and did a training here in 2019

40:38

that I attended as

40:40

the only non-birth worker there , and

40:42

my doula was also there . So I'm sure

40:45

there was like aha moments for both of us of

40:47

like , oh man , how do we know this information

40:49

when I was having my baby . Yeah , we would

40:51

have used it , but we didn't know .

40:53

Yeah same , you

40:55

don't know what you don't know .

40:56

We don't .

40:57

Well , let's see , there's

40:59

a lot of things that I wanna that you said

41:01

that I wanna touch on . But let's move

41:03

on to the next , because , wow , we could just

41:05

we could go down a

41:07

lot of rabbit holes . All right , so

41:09

baby number two , well

41:12

, actually , two and three , two and three .

41:14

So the conception story

41:16

is a little bit funny . I did

41:18

not . So my son . He

41:21

started preschool or sorry , like

41:23

daycare when he was around 15 months

41:25

, and this was August of

41:27

2019 . And then

41:29

in March , the world shut down and

41:31

he got sent home with me and

41:34

I was trying to build a business

41:36

and work part-time

41:38

and had just gotten into a rhythm

41:40

with my schedule and was like , okay

41:43

, now I'm home with a toddler who's

41:45

extremely needy . We always

41:47

knew we wanted more kids , but

41:49

I just had this feeling of like I don't

41:51

think I'm ever gonna be ready . We had talked about starting

41:53

to try again in August , so we'd have another

41:55

April , may baby , and

41:57

it was just like , or I

42:00

guess maybe start a little earlier , I don't know , I can't do math

42:02

and I was just like I'm not

42:04

gonna be ready . I ended up going to an

42:06

energy worker who does a little bit of massage

42:08

and acupuncture and she I had seen

42:10

her before and she gave me a reading

42:12

that was basically like you are making

42:15

your decisions out of fear and you need

42:17

to not make your decisions out

42:19

of fear , and there is this

42:21

female energy that's ready to be

42:23

yours when you're ready to have her and

42:26

I was like holy shit , this means

42:28

I'm about to get pregnant with a girl . I

42:30

need to just let go of fear , get

42:32

pregnant now , like it'll be fine . I'm

42:35

just scared of being a mom of

42:37

two kids , and so

42:40

I was supposed to start my period in

42:42

three days . So I'm like

42:44

it's okay , don't pull out , because you know that

42:46

was our birth control method at the time . And

42:48

. I got pregnant and

42:51

so that was summer

42:53

of 2020 . And we

42:55

were all in lockdown . I was not

42:57

connecting with the pregnancy . I think

42:59

a lot of moms maybe they got pregnant around that

43:01

time . We're just struggling emotionally

43:04

and so I

43:06

knew I knew before I even got pregnant

43:09

that I wanted a home birth . This time

43:11

I was like , unfortunately

43:13

, the birth center in my area it

43:16

has all these restrictions on it and if I go past 42

43:18

weeks again like I'm not dealing with that , so

43:20

I'm gonna go straight to a home

43:22

birth . My midwife was actually working

43:24

with a home birth midwife Cause , again , she's an IBCLC

43:27

and she's an RN , so she was doing like

43:29

newborn visits for this midwife and

43:31

I was like , okay , great , I met her , loved her

43:33

, hired her and at

43:36

around nine weeks I

43:38

went in to the first

43:40

prenatal and we

43:43

were gonna throw on the Doppler . But I was like you know

43:45

, I just am not really connecting

43:47

with this pregnancy and I just feel like something

43:49

is wrong . I was just having a lot

43:51

of worry for no reason and

43:54

she had just

43:56

gotten this new tool called the butterfly

43:59

, which is an ultrasound , a handheld ultrasound

44:01

little thing where she could see

44:03

the image on her phone . She's like I

44:05

just got this . Do you want me to look

44:07

, just so we can like ease some of your anxiety

44:10

. And I was like , yes , please . So I lay down

44:12

and I can see out as a corner of my eye

44:14

, two sacs , I can see

44:17

it and she goes um

44:19

, taylor and , mind you , like

44:21

she knows my mom , she has this relationship

44:23

with my mom , my mom's student , right there , my

44:25

mom can see it and

44:27

I'm like what ? And my mom's

44:29

like I think you're scaring her . Tell her something

44:32

. She's like Taylor , I think you're having

44:34

twins . And my husband just like

44:36

belly laughs and

44:38

I have this on video . There's a real I posted

44:41

on my Instagram . You can go watch it and

44:43

just like straight up belly

44:45

laughs . He had been joking about it . Actually

44:47

, he had been joking that we were

44:50

gonna have twin girls and he's like bring

44:52

my girls to me . Like he would say things

44:54

like that that I'm just like stop it , we're

44:56

not having twins , we don't have twins in our family

44:58

, like we're not having twins . And so that was

45:00

a huge shock at nine weeks , probably

45:03

less of a shock than the people that find out at like

45:05

20 weeks or 30 something weeks

45:07

. But I very

45:09

quickly was like in logistics

45:11

mode Cause at the time I was already a doula

45:13

and I was like what do I do ? Like , can I

45:15

birth with you ? Can you still be my midwives

45:18

? And because I'm in

45:20

the Kansas Missouri area , in

45:22

our state you can . Midwives

45:25

do have legal privileges to

45:27

attend twin births , v-backs

45:29

, breech births , unlike a lot of

45:31

states . So she's like , yes

45:33

, but I've

45:35

never personally done twins

45:38

before . She had a twin mom . At the time

45:40

she was due a few months before me

45:42

. So we very quickly looped in

45:44

another midwife team in the area who

45:47

had a lot more experience with

45:49

twins . Even though my midwife

45:51

had taken training , she had never

45:53

attended one , or at least been

45:55

the lead midwife on one , and

45:57

so that was the plan . I

45:59

had her plus another midwife

46:02

team and we just moved through with

46:04

care like normal , honestly Well

46:06

. So she told me she wanted to have me have

46:08

congruent care with an MFM

46:10

in the area , which is maternal fetal medicine

46:12

doctor , which is like a high risk pregnancy

46:15

specialist , and so she

46:18

sent me to her . I had my

46:20

first scan with her at 17 weeks

46:22

and this doctor knew

46:24

that I was planning a home birth . Like she was chatting

46:27

with my midwife , she was sending all my records to

46:29

my midwife . I don't think she loved the idea

46:31

, but she was not ever rude

46:33

about it or made me feel stupid about it

46:35

or anything like that . And so I had

46:37

my first scan with her at 17 weeks and

46:40

then I did monthly scans

46:43

up until gosh

46:45

it was probably like 32-ish , 34-ish

46:48

and then I started going weekly

46:51

, for maybe it was

46:53

even a little bit later than that . I started

46:55

going weekly for biophysical profiles

46:57

and non-stress tests for

46:59

the babies . They were doing growth scans

47:02

, maybe every month , mainly to

47:04

check that they were not

47:06

stealing nutrients from each other , I think , even

47:09

though they did have their own sacs , their own

47:11

placentas , which is called di-di twins

47:13

, which is supposedly the quote unquote like

47:15

safest type to have . And

47:18

so they were doing great

47:20

. We were doing all the scans , we were doing

47:22

all the biophysical profiles , the non-stress

47:24

tests , and at around

47:26

gosh 34

47:29

weeks probably it was apparent

47:31

and we were far enough along , and

47:33

maybe prior to this even that

47:35

my baby A , every scan

47:37

she kept qualifying

47:39

him as transverse , which essentially

47:41

means sideways , so you

47:44

have head down , butt down

47:46

or feet down , which is breach , and then

47:48

transverse , which is like off to the side . So

47:50

his butt was always near

47:52

my left hip so he was like semi-breach

47:55

but off to the side , and so in

47:57

the earlier scans we just kind of left

47:59

it alone . I was in chiropractic care

48:01

. I was doing minimal things

48:04

to really change much of that outside

48:06

of chiropractic care . We're just like

48:09

, oh , he'll shift , and once

48:11

it got a little further along and we're like , okay

48:13

, he's definitely butt down and

48:15

he's definitely butt off to the side . We

48:17

chatted with the other midwife team who

48:20

had experience with twins

48:22

and they also had a decent amount of experience

48:24

with breach as well , and my midwife

48:26

, as well as this other midwife , had

48:28

both taken the reteach breach

48:31

trainings . They had been in touch with

48:33

an OBI out of California , dr

48:35

Stuart Fishbein , who is very , very

48:37

well known for twins and breach and

48:40

his expertise in that , and so

48:42

they had both trained with him

48:44

and were in actually communication

48:46

with him throughout this . A

48:49

little bit as far as what's safe

48:51

, what's not safe , proper breach position

48:53

versus the position my baby

48:55

was in , which was like not a proper breach position

48:58

, he was off to the side , and so

49:00

at that time , probably around 34 weeks

49:02

, I went

49:04

hard in the paint like trying to

49:06

get this baby to just center

49:08

. I did not expect him to flip

49:10

, because he was one

49:12

of two in there and

49:15

his brother , funny enough

49:17

, every single scan was

49:19

in a different position . Like his head

49:21

. That baby flipped every single

49:23

week Like he was just all over the place

49:25

, whereas this baby was just

49:27

like stuck , he was just there . So

49:30

I did more chiropractic

49:32

and I did some pretty intense body

49:35

work with like a Mayan abdominal

49:37

massage therapist who did like some milifacial

49:40

work , some deep tissue making

49:42

space in the abdomen , did a lot of spinning

49:44

baby stuff , did some stuff with acupuncture

49:47

just to really make space , not

49:50

never expecting him to flip but just hoping

49:52

he would center . And

49:54

I want to say , at

49:56

around 38 weeks

49:58

I decided

50:01

that I wanted to add in collaborative

50:04

care with an OB because

50:06

I knew that this might end up

50:08

at the hospital and

50:10

I wanted

50:13

to establish care with someone who was

50:15

one doctor in the city who we knew of

50:17

who would attend a vaginal

50:20

breach birth and unfortunately

50:22

there's no hospitals in

50:24

the area Well , that might not be true now who

50:27

have a green light protocol for a vaginal

50:29

breach birth when it's planned . Unfortunately

50:32

there might be one actually , but this doctor

50:34

had written one and he

50:36

just said they were waiting for it to be green

50:39

lighted , which of course wasn't gonna happen by the

50:41

time I had my babies . But he's like let's

50:43

chat . So we sat down for a meeting

50:45

. He did an ultrasound he's

50:47

like baby's breach , which

50:49

to me was like the best news in the world

50:51

because I'm like he's not transverse

50:54

but was over in the cervix . That was great news

50:56

. And that doctor was kind of like

50:58

I'll be around if you need me

51:00

, like I'm like hopefully I don't

51:02

see you , hopefully I don't ever see you again . And

51:04

so we were all really

51:06

thrilled about that . And so he

51:08

was breach from about 37

51:11

, 38 weeks on

51:13

and I went in for

51:16

my biophysical profile and my non-stress

51:18

test with my maternal fetal medicine doctor

51:20

at the 38

51:22

week mark as well . I think the

51:25

weeks all blend together , so it's

51:27

so frequent and I remember it was either

51:29

her or the tech saying we recommend

51:31

delivery , that's our recommendation . We

51:34

know you're not your main provider , but that's our

51:36

recommendation . And of course , to them

51:38

that meant have a C-section , because

51:41

they're not going to

51:43

induce you with

51:45

a breach baby . Their hospitals

51:47

don't provide vaginal

51:49

breach birth as an option . So to them

51:51

that meant schedule a C-section at 38 weeks

51:54

, which I was absolutely not gonna do so

51:56

, sent me on my way . I show

51:58

back up for the following week , because at this point I

52:00

was going weekly . I show back up

52:02

at 39 weeks and the

52:04

tech says , wow , we're kind

52:07

of surprised to see you today , cause

52:09

we recommended delivery last week . And

52:11

I was like I didn't say this out loud

52:13

but in my head I'm like , yeah

52:16

, I recommended delivery to these babies

52:18

too , but like they didn't listen , I don't know

52:20

what to tell you . And so the tech

52:22

was kind of , as she's doing the scan , talking

52:24

to me about like well , what's your plan

52:27

? And again I'm having like flashback

52:29

moments like what's your end game ? And I'm like , oh

52:31

geez . And she so

52:33

, when she asked me that question , I was like , well , my plan is

52:35

to take it day by day and

52:38

my plan is to use the information that

52:40

we're gathering today to make

52:42

a choice . And so my baby

52:44

one of them almost

52:47

didn't pass that test

52:49

with all the points that they can pass

52:51

with , because he didn't give one extra

52:53

punch or one extra kick , like he didn't give

52:55

it until the very end of the 30 minute

52:57

timeframe and I thought for sure

52:59

she was gonna fail me on purpose . I was

53:02

like I bet you . She saw something that she just didn't

53:04

say . And that was just me being cynical

53:06

and mad , thinking she was gonna fail

53:08

me on purpose , but ultimately they passed

53:11

. They did everything they were supposed to do . I got a 10

53:13

out of 10 . So eight points on the

53:15

biophysical profile and two on the non-stress

53:17

test and went on my way

53:19

and I told my midwife when I left I can't

53:21

go back there . They already

53:24

want me to like have had these babies . I

53:26

don't feel comfortable going back there for my next scan

53:29

. So my 40 week

53:31

scan , I went to one

53:33

of those imaging places that does like 3D

53:36

imaging and they

53:38

did my scan . They don't have the

53:41

ability to do non-stress tests there , but they

53:43

were able to do the biophysical profile

53:45

, which was enough for us . They passed again

53:47

at 39 weeks . So yes , I'm still pregnant

53:49

at 39 weeks . And throughout

53:51

this process , the other thing that was happening was

53:53

we were juggling

53:56

the many , many factors

53:58

of the fact that I'm 39 weeks

54:00

pregnant with breech twins and

54:02

navigating . Okay

54:05

, should we nudge labor along a

54:07

little bit this week because biophysical

54:09

profiles look good , baby's in a good position

54:12

, or should we back off

54:14

and let your body take over

54:16

naturally and let spontaneous labor

54:18

happen ? And so it was this like

54:20

ebb and flow of everything

54:23

looks good . Maybe we should nudge things along

54:26

versus not . So there were days where I

54:28

did the breast pump , I did squatting , I did stairs

54:30

, I did on my due date

54:32

. So at the 40 week mark I actually

54:34

ended up going to do my scan with

54:37

that OB that I had congruent

54:39

care with at the hospital

54:41

and he confirmed again

54:43

that baby was breech . They passed with flying

54:45

colors and he asked me at that appointment

54:48

do you want ?

54:49

me to give you a C-section today ? And

54:51

I was like but he said it just , so that's

54:54

all I can offer you . Do you

54:56

want me to help you today ? And I was like nope

54:58

, no thanks . And he's like okay , just checking

55:00

, he was super sweet , that's all I can offer

55:03

you . Do you want me to help

55:05

you today ? And I was like nope , no thanks

55:07

. And he's like , okay , just checking , he

55:09

was super sweet .

55:10

And so I left that appointment . Again , the babies were looking

55:12

great and my midwife came over that night

55:14

to do an herb

55:17

protocol to essentially the

55:19

midwives version of an induction at

55:22

home , because , again , we

55:24

had just gotten a great biophysical profile

55:26

. Baby was in a good position

55:29

and it was weighing the risks of

55:31

next week we might not get this news , tomorrow

55:34

we might not have this news versus

55:36

weighing the risks of basically an

55:38

induction or pushing your body into labor when

55:40

it's not quite ready . So we were weighing those options

55:43

constantly and she came

55:45

over and did a whole herb protocol . We

55:47

did a lot of spinning babies , a lot of squatting

55:50

and ultimately I would keep

55:52

a contraction pattern when we were doing all the things

55:54

. But the second we stopped doing them , like my

55:56

contractions would stop and they were never getting

55:59

regular or rhythmic or

56:01

stronger , like they were just kind of there

56:03

. So they left

56:05

. The next morning and the

56:08

next week was very

56:10

similar , like one day of doing nothing

56:12

, one day of maybe nudging , one day

56:14

of , okay , maybe you should go for a walk today

56:16

. The next day , okay , maybe you should sleep today . And

56:19

so now we're

56:21

past 41 weeks , I'm

56:24

still pregnant with twins , but my

56:26

midwives were around all

56:28

the time they were over probably every day

56:30

, every other day , checking heart tones

56:33

Again . My babies were passing these biophysical

56:35

profiles with flying colors . My blood

56:38

pressure was staying within good

56:40

range . We were all healthy . So

56:42

we just kept making the decision to stay

56:44

pregnant because we were all

56:47

healthy . I think I had done a few membrane

56:49

sweeps at that point to try to get things

56:52

moving . I think I took castor

56:54

oil in some way shape or form

56:56

three or four times in

56:59

, like orange juice in scrambled

57:01

eggs , in protein shakes

57:03

. I had done a lot of different things to try to

57:05

kick things off and they just wore not . They were

57:07

not so , probably because it was a baby

57:10

butt on my cervix and not a baby

57:12

head . So get down to the last

57:14

week and Sunday

57:16

. So this is . It was exactly 41

57:18

weeks . I had done a membrane sweep and she had

57:20

checked me and I think they were like stretching

57:23

me a little bit every time they were doing a sweep

57:26

. So at this point I was

57:28

a five and I haven't actually been

57:30

a five for like a week

57:32

. So there was cervical change happening

57:34

. So I was hopeful and I was also

57:36

hopeful that once things got started

57:38

that they would really go fast

57:41

. And so Sunday

57:43

I was a five that was , at 41 weeks

57:45

and then 41

57:48

and four . So Thursday my

57:50

midwife came over maybe once

57:53

throughout that week and did another little herb protocol

57:55

on me just us two and

57:57

didn't work again . Thursday

58:00

I took a bath because she's like just

58:02

relax today and I

58:05

got out of the bath I laid in bed and my

58:07

water broke and I

58:09

knew what happened . But I

58:11

got up and I went to the bathroom . There

58:13

was definitely meconium stain in the water

58:15

, but especially with the Breach Baby

58:17

, I was like okay , well , his butt is

58:19

right there . But

58:22

I immediately started

58:24

crying . So it was the fear , the anxiety

58:26

, the holy shit . This is happening

58:29

. It all rushed at

58:31

once and even being in the role

58:33

that I am , knowing what I know , as the

58:35

birthing parent , as the mom

58:37

doing it , all of that shit goes out the window

58:39

and you're just like I don't know what's just happening

58:42

, like I called my mom , I called my midwife

58:44

, I'm like I don't know , like I'm freaking out

58:46

. And so that day

58:48

I ended up putting on a depend

58:51

and my baby was

58:53

pooping out of me throughout the entire

58:56

day . So this

58:58

happened around 2pm on Thursday

59:01

they came over . She's

59:03

like okay , let's walk around the block every

59:06

10 feet , do a squat , you know

59:08

, because now we're at the point where we do need contractions

59:11

to happen , because now my water's broken

59:13

, so like we do need a contraction pattern

59:15

to be going , and it wasn't . So

59:18

we're doing the things . Finally , I

59:20

kind of got a contraction pattern that

59:22

felt like it was going to stick and

59:25

again , at this point I'm five centimeters . So

59:27

she calls the other midwife team

59:29

. She's like I think you guys should come here because

59:31

this is probably going to happen fast now that it's

59:33

happening . They started filling up the

59:35

pool for me , all of those things

59:37

, and then , yet again

59:40

, things just started to

59:42

stop . They just petered out and

59:45

it was so frustrating that

59:47

whole last couple of weeks . Just waking up pregnant

59:49

every morning was just like oh my God , are you

59:51

kidding me ? Like this didn't happen overnight , especially

59:55

that day , especially now knowing that the other

59:57

midwives were there and so

59:59

and they left me alone . Like they said hello

1:00:02

and then they totally left me alone , and

1:00:04

then I just remember feeling like a watched pot

1:00:07

, even though nobody

1:00:09

was making me feel that way . And

1:00:11

then there's flashbacks to my last birth , flashbacks

1:00:13

to why is this not happening ? Why

1:00:15

am I almost 42 weeks and my body is

1:00:17

like not kicking into gear , like what's going

1:00:19

on ? How am I walking around at

1:00:21

five centimeters and just not having contractions

1:00:24

? I don't understand this . And so

1:00:26

eventually they petered

1:00:28

out and my midwife said do you want

1:00:30

me to tell everyone to leave ? And

1:00:33

I was like actually yes . And

1:00:35

then she asked me the very hard question of

1:00:37

do you want me to tell everyone

1:00:40

to leave ? Meaning , like , my mom

1:00:43

and my doula

1:00:45

who was my aunt from the previous birth that

1:00:47

I told you about that came down from Des Moines and this

1:00:49

woman was driving down every

1:00:52

single week because she lived

1:00:54

in Iowa and had her own business . She

1:00:56

was driving down every single week and

1:00:58

at that moment I just needed

1:01:01

to be by myself and

1:01:03

I knew it was going to break my mom's heart for me

1:01:05

to tell her to leave , but I was like yes , like

1:01:07

please , they need to leave . And

1:01:09

so I think my husband had to go down and do the dirty work

1:01:11

and we tell him to leave . And

1:01:13

so we went to bed . My midwife was

1:01:15

the only one that stayed . She stayed overnight on my couch

1:01:18

. She was checking heart tones every , however

1:01:21

often while I slept I

1:01:23

was sleeping with the peanut ball , and

1:01:25

, at some point during the night

1:01:27

, contractions started again on

1:01:29

their own , and this was the

1:01:32

first time in both

1:01:34

of my pregnancies that

1:01:36

contractions had started on their own

1:01:38

, without the breast pump , without squatting , without

1:01:40

anything else . And I was just

1:01:42

so ecstatic and

1:01:44

my husband was asleep , my midwife was asleep , it

1:01:46

was just me , and , like we were , I was just

1:01:48

walk . I say we because me and the baby's , like we were

1:01:50

just walking around the room . I was on all fours

1:01:53

, I was leaning over the bed , I was on the dresser

1:01:55

, like leaning against it , and

1:01:57

just that hour and a half was one

1:01:59

of my like favorite moments , and

1:02:02

I remember I like put my hands on

1:02:04

my belly and I just had this really sweet

1:02:06

conversation with my babies of we've

1:02:08

got this , we're going to do

1:02:10

this , I'm listening to you

1:02:13

, we're doing this together . And

1:02:15

then , after that hour and a half or so

1:02:17

, they stopped again , and

1:02:20

this time , though , it felt different to

1:02:22

me . It felt like , okay , they're , just

1:02:24

because it started on its own . I was like they're

1:02:26

just giving me this last little

1:02:29

break before I meet

1:02:31

them , like before shit hits the fan . And

1:02:33

so I laid back down , and when

1:02:35

I woke up , there was no contraction and

1:02:37

I was like , oh my God , this

1:02:40

isn't happening . So I got

1:02:42

in the shower and again , this is all

1:02:44

me by myself and

1:02:46

I think I needed that alone time so bad

1:02:48

. I got in the shower and

1:02:51

I had another conversation with my babies

1:02:53

mainly baby A , because a lot

1:02:55

of this was up to him and I was like

1:02:57

, okay , I told you last

1:02:59

night that I was listening . I said

1:03:01

we're in this together . I said we're doing this

1:03:03

. I still mean that there is

1:03:05

something you know that I don't know

1:03:08

. There is something happening inside there

1:03:10

that you know

1:03:12

that I just I can't

1:03:14

know and I'm listening

1:03:16

to you and like this is going to make me cry . But

1:03:19

I told him I'm listening and

1:03:22

so when I got out of the

1:03:25

shower , my midwife

1:03:27

came upstairs and she asked me if she could check me

1:03:29

and I was like , yeah , that was the first check I had had

1:03:31

since my water had been broken and

1:03:34

, mind you , actually was the first check I had had since Sunday

1:03:36

, the past Sunday . So again

1:03:38

, just a refreshed Sunday . I was a five . And

1:03:40

she also said on Sunday I can feel

1:03:42

his butt Like . I feel his butt engaged

1:03:45

. When she checked me that morning it was Friday morning

1:03:47

. She's like I'm going to have to stop

1:03:49

this exam because I think I'm going to traumatize

1:03:52

you if I keep going , because my cervix

1:03:54

had shifted high and

1:03:56

back since Sunday . She's

1:03:58

like you feel like about a four and

1:04:01

I don't feel his butt anymore . I

1:04:03

don't know what I'm feeling . I don't want to keep

1:04:05

examining you to figure it out , but

1:04:07

it's a hip or it's a back

1:04:09

, it's not a butt . And I think

1:04:11

at that moment we both knew we

1:04:14

got to call it and she said you

1:04:16

know , I really think now's the time

1:04:18

to transfer and because

1:04:20

I have had that conversation with him in the

1:04:22

shower , I felt at peace with

1:04:24

that . Maybe not quite yet , like I think

1:04:27

I had to cry and I'm sure I had to process

1:04:29

things a little bit with my husband , but in

1:04:31

that moment I was like , okay , we're doing

1:04:33

this . I'm not willing to force

1:04:35

a contraction pattern on a malpositioned

1:04:37

breech baby at home and risk

1:04:40

cord prolapse , which is already a risk

1:04:42

. But we had planned for that risk

1:04:44

with a butt plugging my cervix

1:04:47

, but not with not a butt plugging my cervix

1:04:49

. And so we slowly

1:04:51

packed the bag . Because I did not

1:04:53

have a bag packed , my midwife called the

1:04:55

OB that we had already established care with

1:04:57

. She was going to perform the surgery . She

1:05:00

let them know we were coming . Unfortunately

1:05:02

, she couldn't come with me because it was

1:05:04

still COVID protocols , because this was February

1:05:06

of 2021 . And

1:05:08

I got to have a really cute , heartfelt

1:05:11

moment with my oldest . I had my mom bring him

1:05:13

back over because he went to my mom's house . She

1:05:16

brought him over and I told him I was going

1:05:18

and everything , and so that was , it

1:05:20

was non-emergent . It was very this

1:05:22

is okay and I'm very consciously

1:05:24

making this choice . And it felt very

1:05:27

autonomous and I speak

1:05:29

to a lot of my clients , not

1:05:31

necessarily telling them specifically my

1:05:33

story if they don't ask me , but this

1:05:35

has brought me so much perspective with clients

1:05:37

of like your plan can change and

1:05:40

you can still make the next

1:05:42

best choice very autonomously

1:05:44

and you are given that space

1:05:47

to make it and it truly felt

1:05:49

like my choice . It didn't feel like , oh well , I

1:05:51

have to have a C-section because this is the

1:05:53

only thing that's left . It was like

1:05:55

, no , I could stay at home , I could

1:05:57

do all of these other things , but at that

1:05:59

moment I was like I don't feel comfortable with that risk

1:06:01

anymore . This is the choice that feels best for us

1:06:04

. So I walked into the hospital . There

1:06:06

was some funny stuff that happened at the hospital that

1:06:08

like pissed me off . The lady at the front

1:06:10

was like , oh girl , I just get the epidural

1:06:13

. She prayed for me in the elevator

1:06:16

and then when we get up to

1:06:18

the room , they're like can we do an ultrasound

1:06:20

to confirm position ? And I was like

1:06:22

I know what position they're in . Oh

1:06:24

, because they said we want to confirm that

1:06:27

you're a candidate for a vaginal birth or

1:06:29

not . I'm like no , no , no , like I'm not here for

1:06:31

that . If there is a vaginal birth happening , I'm

1:06:33

leaving . And then one

1:06:35

resident wanted to give me a vaginal exam

1:06:37

to make sure that I had

1:06:40

enough time to get prepped

1:06:42

and ready for the OR . And I said absolutely

1:06:45

not . There's no contractions happening

1:06:47

. Trust me , there's not a baby coming out

1:06:49

of me . I'll tell you if

1:06:51

you don't have time . And again

1:06:53

, if that's the case , I'm not going back

1:06:55

to the OR . So like it was just funny

1:06:57

. Like some of the protocols that they have

1:07:00

, it's so second nature that

1:07:02

they don't sometimes think to like

1:07:04

put it into the context of what's

1:07:06

happening with this particular woman

1:07:08

. So I declined the vaginal exam . I

1:07:10

did have a nurse walk over to put

1:07:13

something in my drip and did it without

1:07:15

consent and I was like what are you putting in my drip

1:07:17

? She said penicillin . I said for

1:07:19

what she said . Well , because your

1:07:21

water's been broken for almost

1:07:24

24 hours . At that point I think it had

1:07:26

been 24 hours and I was like

1:07:28

well , I'm declining , that , I

1:07:30

don't have the fever , I don't have the shake , like I don't

1:07:32

have an infection . My midwife's

1:07:35

been tracking all of that stuff . I had been

1:07:37

having my temperature taken , all of those things

1:07:39

. So I was like no , thank you . Also

1:07:41

, I wanted to keep my placentas , which was

1:07:43

a whole nother thing . That Obi was like well , I don't

1:07:46

know , and I'm like , okay

1:07:48

, we'll just do it anyways . And

1:07:51

so they were really sweet about that . He actually

1:07:53

even offered to give me my

1:07:55

antibiotic the surgical antibiotics after

1:07:58

the cords had been cut , so that my babies

1:08:00

didn't get antibiotics because I didn't want them to have

1:08:02

that . So that was really sweet of him to

1:08:04

offer . But one thing that I do have a

1:08:06

lot of trauma around , though , with this

1:08:09

was I spoke to a

1:08:11

pediatric nurse team that was going

1:08:13

to be in the OR that I very specifically

1:08:15

said my babies will come directly

1:08:17

to me . I had asked for a clear drape . My

1:08:20

babies were supposed to come directly to me and

1:08:22

for some reason the nurses that were in

1:08:24

that room with me prepping were

1:08:26

not the same nurses that were in the OR

1:08:28

and they took them to the warmer and

1:08:31

I was like livid

1:08:33

, livid . I was

1:08:35

like they were not supposed to go to the warmer , they were supposed

1:08:37

to come directly to me . And I remember

1:08:40

like cussing them out in the OR

1:08:42

, basically saying like where the fuck are

1:08:44

my babies ? And like screaming across the OR

1:08:46

. I think they were only over there for like 30

1:08:48

seconds to a minute and I

1:08:50

like made my husband go over there and get them because

1:08:53

I knew they were fine . Like they lifted them up , I got to

1:08:55

see them through the clear drape but

1:08:57

then they walked that way instead of coming straight

1:08:59

to my chest and I was like so confused . Everybody

1:09:02

apologized to me . After the anesthesiologist

1:09:04

even apologized , the resident came in

1:09:06

and was like we're so sorry that happened . We

1:09:08

don't know why that happened . The nurses after

1:09:10

the fact the postpartum nurses were amazing

1:09:13

. They helped me latch because my mom couldn't

1:09:15

be there right away because of COVID protocols

1:09:18

. They helped me get tandem nursing

1:09:20

set up . Babies were fine , babies

1:09:22

were great . They were seven pounds five ounces and seven

1:09:24

pounds nine ounces and I'm

1:09:26

pretty sure the seven pounds five ounces which

1:09:28

was my baby A was only because he had

1:09:30

been pooping for an entire day . I

1:09:33

think he would have weighed more because at all the growth

1:09:35

scans he was measuring bigger . So

1:09:37

, yeah , that was my second

1:09:39

experience and home birth , midwifery

1:09:42

care , postpartum 10 out of 10

1:09:44

recommend . They are also your pediatrician

1:09:46

for the first six to 12 weeks , depending on

1:09:48

your midway . So I did not have to ever go

1:09:51

out to the doctor's office . I

1:09:53

didn't have to do any of that , which was so nice

1:09:56

.

1:09:56

So yeah , I love like you answered

1:09:59

literally every single question that I had as

1:10:01

a labor and delivery nurse going but what if ? But

1:10:03

what if , but what if ? And I think

1:10:05

that this just really highlights

1:10:07

how hospital

1:10:09

and medicalized birth and

1:10:12

again , I'm a labor and delivery nurse but

1:10:14

I'm hoping to be a part of the change

1:10:16

it comes down to . I

1:10:18

wrote it down because what I heard was that you got

1:10:20

more one to one attention than

1:10:23

you would have ever gotten in the hospital . So

1:10:25

when we're looking at safety that one to

1:10:27

one care and having all of your safety

1:10:30

checks done you had your BPPs

1:10:33

, your babies were passing the BPPs . Your

1:10:35

midwife was monitoring them at

1:10:37

your home . Was it Dopplers or was it

1:10:39

? Did she have some sort of machine that I've never heard of

1:10:41

?

1:10:42

No , we were using Doppler .

1:10:43

Still , they're skilled in that , so

1:10:45

I in the hospital . It's rare that you would do

1:10:47

Dopplers with true

1:10:50

intermittent monitoring . I think there might

1:10:52

be another word of but when

1:10:54

you just basically listened to , yeah because

1:10:58

we also do a different form where it's like 20 minutes

1:11:00

on and then 40 minutes off

1:11:02

, just because it's easier when you have two patients . So

1:11:05

to have to go in and listen through a contraction

1:11:07

and then listen to the other babies were a contraction

1:11:09

. We just don't have the staffing for that . No , you guys

1:11:11

are .

1:11:12

So what I'm ?

1:11:13

hearing is yeah , it's all about saving

1:11:15

money , right , and it's all about liability

1:11:17

. So they're balancing liability versus saving money

1:11:20

, not necessarily safety and what's best for the patient

1:11:22

. So I just wish

1:11:24

that there was a way

1:11:26

that we could work with different levels

1:11:28

, that they all worked together and that

1:11:30

we could create what you have created in

1:11:33

your birth experiences , where you have the midwife

1:11:35

, you have the doula , you have the

1:11:37

birth center and you have the hospital

1:11:39

, and there's just different levels

1:11:41

. Once we've gotten to a point where maybe

1:11:43

it's not safe here , then maybe

1:11:45

it's safe here , and then maybe here . But instead

1:11:47

of having all these protocols

1:11:50

for liability like the , I

1:11:52

just want to check you to make sure that you're not going to

1:11:54

deliver imminently . We can do all the preps

1:11:56

before the oh or what . No

1:11:59

, no , no . There's a lot of

1:12:01

mindless things that go on

1:12:03

based on protocol , based on trying to

1:12:05

fit people into a box at the hospital

1:12:07

so that they can have their policies . That

1:12:10

, I'm hearing , don't

1:12:12

happen with the midwifery

1:12:14

care at home and in the birth center . You

1:12:17

have your protocols , but you're going

1:12:19

to check for safety before you make that decision

1:12:21

, and I wish that that . That is the

1:12:24

epitome of informed decision making and

1:12:26

autonomy and we don't have that in the hospital

1:12:28

. I mean we do , but it's not to that

1:12:30

level because we're looking at the whole

1:12:33

floor and trying to make sure that everybody's

1:12:35

safe . So your care might have to

1:12:37

wait because this person is having an

1:12:39

emergency and this doctor

1:12:42

needs to be there . So you may

1:12:44

get the hospitalist , the person that wasn't scheduled

1:12:46

to be . Your doctor will come in

1:12:48

and help and we do have those

1:12:50

things . They're there for reason , for safety and all

1:12:52

that stuff , and I agree with that . But it

1:12:54

just sounds like the perception that

1:12:56

I hear at the hospital

1:12:58

of home birth and birth center . Birth

1:13:01

needs to be adjusted

1:13:03

. I don't think you can speak for every birth center or

1:13:05

every midwife , because you know , just like I

1:13:07

can't speak for every OB , there's

1:13:09

people that are better and

1:13:11

people that are not necessarily the

1:13:14

best , you know , and maybe don't have the

1:13:16

best intentions or are more in it for

1:13:18

not necessarily the one to one care , but

1:13:20

you know , to just get people through to

1:13:22

make the money . But I think that it's a

1:13:24

spectrum and so I don't think anybody goes

1:13:26

into it thinking that , but that's what tends to

1:13:28

happen . But I just

1:13:30

love how that you were able to take the

1:13:33

information that you had in the moment and

1:13:35

make an informed decision in the moment , and

1:13:37

when it got to the point where you weren't comfortable with

1:13:39

the risk anymore , that's when you were able

1:13:41

to choose to have the

1:13:43

C-section and I hear

1:13:45

a lot of people in . I mean , we

1:13:48

get real nervous in the hospital once people go past

1:13:50

39 weeks because of our

1:13:52

own trauma , and you talked earlier about

1:13:54

making decisions out of fear , and

1:13:56

I think that we probably do that a lot , and so

1:13:58

I feel like it's time that , as a community

1:14:01

, we take a step back and really just question what

1:14:03

our intentions are and where we're making

1:14:05

these decisions from , and try

1:14:07

to use cases like yours

1:14:09

to understand what true evidence-based

1:14:12

practices and unfortunately , evidence-based

1:14:14

practices is what we know now so

1:14:16

let's start to learn what

1:14:18

else we can learn from people that

1:14:21

are really trying to

1:14:23

have more autonomy

1:14:25

in how they're treated and how they're birthing

1:14:27

, because birth is so medicalized in hospitals

1:14:30

and it doesn't necessarily

1:14:32

have to be yeah . Yeah , unless

1:14:34

there's risks , unless the risks

1:14:36

are there .

1:14:37

Yes , there's a place for

1:14:39

all of it . It's all necessary

1:14:41

. It's just sometimes

1:14:44

the pendulum swings too far

1:14:46

in one direction , and

1:14:48

this happens on both sides of the spectrum

1:14:50

. And . I am always a huge proponent

1:14:52

of saying there is no right or wrong answer

1:14:55

. It's what is right for you , what

1:14:57

feels good to you . It goes

1:14:59

down to that individualized care , that

1:15:01

. What are your actual

1:15:04

risk factors ? Yeah , sure , your

1:15:07

higher risk as a twin mom

1:15:09

, for instance . I'm just using that as an example

1:15:11

because you have a higher

1:15:13

chance of maybe getting

1:15:15

gestational diabetes or getting hypertension

1:15:17

or getting preeclampsia , but it doesn't actually

1:15:20

mean that you have those things . It just

1:15:22

means you have a higher risk of getting them . So the

1:15:24

term high risk is so relative

1:15:27

. Risk is relative . Safe is relative . None

1:15:29

of those things are actually definable

1:15:32

in birth and no matter where

1:15:34

you give birth or how you give birth

1:15:36

, there's risk . There's risk to

1:15:38

getting in your car and driving every day . We

1:15:40

cannot take risk out of life

1:15:42

. We cannot take the unknown

1:15:44

out of life . So it's like how

1:15:47

can we pull the information

1:15:49

in ? And I always say to information comes

1:15:51

from two places . It comes from the outside

1:15:53

, the research , the evidence , and then it comes from your intuition

1:15:56

. And you have to be able to run the

1:15:58

book information , the research information

1:16:00

through your own personal filter

1:16:02

and then connect with providers

1:16:05

that are in alignment with that . Because

1:16:08

me having a birth with

1:16:10

a midwife who was like , well

1:16:13

, I've never been trained in twins , I've never been trained

1:16:15

in breach , I'm not comfortable with this . And

1:16:17

me just being like , well , I'm comfortable with it , so

1:16:19

get comfortable with it is also not

1:16:21

safe . You have to be with providers

1:16:24

that are also at the same comfort

1:16:26

level and the comfort level of your

1:16:28

desires , and if they're not

1:16:30

, that doesn't make them bad . That

1:16:32

just means you're not a right fit and that's

1:16:34

okay . When clients tell

1:16:36

me , well , my doctor won't allow me to have

1:16:38

a breach vaginal birth , or

1:16:41

my doctor won't allow me to go past

1:16:43

38 weeks with twins , and I'm like , well

1:16:45

, first of all , they can't allow you to do anything

1:16:48

. You get to choose to

1:16:50

change doctors if that's not in alignment

1:16:52

with what you want and , mind you , like

1:16:54

I totally understand there's nuances to

1:16:56

this Like changing doctors is always

1:16:59

the easiest thing and insurance is

1:17:01

a play and location is at play . But if

1:17:03

we reframe our brains to everything

1:17:06

as an option , I have the choice . I

1:17:09

get to choose to birth with

1:17:11

this doctor who wants me to deliver

1:17:13

twins at 38 weeks because

1:17:15

that is their comfort level , and I am choosing

1:17:18

to do that because my doctor

1:17:20

is most comfortable with that . That is still a

1:17:22

choice and that is so much more empowering

1:17:24

than well , my doctor

1:17:27

didn't let me and it's just it's like we've got

1:17:29

to take back that reframe . And again , I know

1:17:31

I'm saying this on a very high level and this is so

1:17:33

nuanced in each individual's situation

1:17:36

. But going back to what you're saying

1:17:39

about all of the protocols

1:17:41

and stuff , so much of this is like so

1:17:44

systemic that you

1:17:46

are part of the change . The nurses

1:17:49

I tell clients all the time I'm like

1:17:51

your nurse is going to make or break your

1:17:53

experience Like good labor and delivery nurses

1:17:55

are so vital and ones that

1:17:58

bring that autonomy into the hospital

1:18:00

, like we need more of those

1:18:02

. And we need doulas that

1:18:04

are able and willing to work with hospital

1:18:06

staff and willing to step into that role , because

1:18:09

that's where women honestly

1:18:11

probably need the most support . And

1:18:13

we have to be able to

1:18:16

somehow work within

1:18:18

this broken system

1:18:20

, because there's so many things

1:18:22

on a systemic level that are broken

1:18:25

about it , or maybe even not

1:18:27

broken , as some would say , but just working the way there's

1:18:29

supposed to be , but just not in the favor

1:18:31

of centering women , and

1:18:34

we have to be able to do that

1:18:36

and it's slowly going . It's going

1:18:38

to make that change . But , like you said

1:18:40

, when you have fear of litigation and that's

1:18:42

coming from two places , you know doctors

1:18:45

are scared to get sued because

1:18:47

women also don't trust themselves

1:18:50

and they put all of their trust in their doctors

1:18:52

. So anything that goes wrong they

1:18:54

instantly blame the doctor . And now

1:18:56

I'm totally not saying that there aren't

1:18:58

cases where the doctor is to blame , but

1:19:00

it happens less in care

1:19:03

, like for instance with my midwife

1:19:05

. If something would have happened to my

1:19:07

baby because I chose to push

1:19:09

contraction pattern on a malposition to breach

1:19:11

baby and I had a cord prolapse

1:19:13

and he got lots of oxygen and

1:19:15

say he didn't make it , which was a totally

1:19:17

bang that was running through my brain , that

1:19:20

would not have been her fault because I

1:19:22

took full ownership of that decision . I

1:19:24

was not willing to take that risk

1:19:26

. But had I been willing to take that risk and

1:19:29

he would have been born just fine , I would have been

1:19:31

able to say I fucking did that . And had he not

1:19:33

been just a child , I would have also had to say

1:19:35

I have to live with that . It's not my midwife's

1:19:38

fault . I don't get to go sue her because

1:19:40

something happened to my baby because of a choice I

1:19:42

made . But in the hospital we give away

1:19:44

so much of our power that that's

1:19:46

also why we become so

1:19:49

sue happy . In a sense

1:19:51

we're literally saying okay

1:19:53

, I'm going to do everything you say , as long as

1:19:55

you give me a healthy baby . So when we

1:19:57

don't do what the doctors say , the doctors are like

1:19:59

well then , I can't promise you a healthy baby . Like

1:20:02

it's this tug of war and

1:20:04

if the more we can trust

1:20:06

ourselves as women and trust birth

1:20:08

and trust the process , the more

1:20:11

and more doctors don't have

1:20:13

to fear litigation as much , if that makes

1:20:15

sense but it's not going to have to be a day like

1:20:17

it's not going to have .

1:20:18

Nope , it's not . We got to be part of the solution

1:20:20

and slowly , maybe by the time our kids are

1:20:22

having kids , I know system will be a

1:20:24

little bit better .

1:20:25

No , we're not going to change them in a day , but

1:20:27

what you can do is you can understand

1:20:29

your fears , you can understand your preconceived

1:20:31

notions , you can decide how you want

1:20:34

this experience to feel and look like . You

1:20:36

can arm yourself with information

1:20:38

and ask really , really good

1:20:40

questions and align yourself with providers

1:20:43

that have the same values and desires as you

1:20:45

, and get support along the way . So

1:20:47

there is a lot that is still in your control

1:20:49

. There is so much that you can do , and

1:20:52

that's why I do what I do . That's why I

1:20:54

have the program I have and appreciate

1:20:57

the work that you do too , because , you know , just

1:20:59

having these conversations is another big

1:21:01

piece .

1:21:02

Absolutely . I think that it's super important , and I

1:21:04

learned so much , too , that I can take to my practice

1:21:06

, and I'm hoping that other nurses listen and

1:21:08

providers can learn more too

1:21:10

. Well , taylor , it has been

1:21:12

so informative and

1:21:14

enlightening to talk to you today

1:21:16

, and I hope that this is one of

1:21:18

many future conversations , especially after

1:21:20

. What are you having ? Are

1:21:23

you finally having some girls ?

1:21:24

I'm having a boy and a girl One

1:21:26

girl , okay , so you're getting your girl

1:21:29

. I'm having a

1:21:31

girl with five boys . I just expected

1:21:33

it , but there is a girl there .

1:21:35

So that female energy was somewhere .

1:21:37

I look back on that and I'm like that female energy

1:21:39

had to have been just me , like I think it

1:21:41

was me , maybe Like me stepping

1:21:43

into my female energy , I think

1:21:45

is what really ?

1:21:47

was being called in . Wow

1:21:49

, that is profound . I love that . Well

1:21:51

, taylor , thank you so much . Thank

1:21:53

you .