0:01

Ed Chieran's Thinking out Loud to the courtroom

0:04

in this copyright case.

0:06

And Taylor Swift's Midnight Rain. You're

0:08

listening to the tape, wasn't.

0:23

The biz tape? You're all things music, business and media

0:26

podcasts. I'm your host Colin McKay with

0:28

my lovely host Coast to Coast Joseph

0:30

Wazzweski joining me.

0:32

Hello, Hello, Hello, how

0:34

are you? I I'm great.

0:37

I'm great because I finally I

0:39

was telling Colin off Mike, I

0:41

finally joined the Apple cult.

0:44

Thank you. Hold your applause, Hold your applause.

0:48

I think you should specify that it's

0:50

not like not to be like anyone

0:52

should not an actual No, actually

0:55

keep that that that part I I said.

0:58

No, The part I'm like you're saying is that you

1:00

got a MacBook, not like you just got an iPhone.

1:04

No, I just bought all of Apple with

1:06

my money, right that I have in the

1:09

bank where money is, and

1:11

you.

1:11

Know Apple's a bank.

1:12

Now, I did

1:14

see that. I also saw that like the

1:17

what is it the Apple credit card or whatever? It

1:20

is like horrible interest, right.

1:21

I would imagine, yeah, where it's.

1:23

Like it's like putting, it's like gonna

1:25

put people in severe debt. People

1:28

are still gonna get it because it's Apple, right,

1:31

you gotta have the Apple rules the world.

1:33

So if you want to join the Apple cult, you can also

1:35

apply your credit score to it. And yeah,

1:38

well, I mean you could do that with a MacBook. A MacBook's like

1:40

three grand.

1:41

So if people, if

1:43

people want to tell us their credit scores,

1:45

they can tell us at the bistape podcast

1:48

wherever you get your social media fix,

1:51

or email us at the bis tape p.

1:52

It's actually a really funny thing

1:55

if you just like if we make like if

1:57

you just sent the credit score, yeah,

1:59

but like you have to listen, no, no,

2:01

no, you have to listen to the show first.

2:03

So like maybe we'll make a post or something and

2:05

then be like you know what to do, and then

2:08

people should just comment their credit score. But

2:10

we're not gonna say anything on social media

2:12

about it, and we'll just see people go six eighty

2:14

three, four or five, like

2:16

and people are like, what is going on?

2:19

Like, yeah, yeah,

2:21

that would be good, that'd be good.

2:23

No, context, don't tell anybody.

2:25

Yeah, all right, we're gonna we're gonna post

2:27

on on Instagram

2:30

a little a little spicy pick and

2:32

then you can you can comment under

2:34

that spicy pick. That sounds like.

2:36

Now it's gonna be like, are they betting money

2:38

on this spicy pick.

2:40

We're gonna label it spicy pick.

2:43

Okay when we post.

2:44

It, imbody does this. I

2:47

hope nobody don't.

2:47

You'll know which one. You'll

2:50

know which one it is. But it speaking of

2:52

Coults, I have a I have another

2:54

story. So right, I got stories. Today. I

2:59

was driving. Uh, there's

3:01

like, you know this, this mountain that's like kind

3:03

of near my place that's like you

3:05

know this, Yeah,

3:08

it like separates one part of the town from the other

3:10

part. Yeah, just the casual mountains.

3:12

I'm gonna say, yeah, but you know where

3:15

like where the Trader Joe's is and where

3:17

we had breakfast and stuff. Remember

3:19

the Trader Okay, So

3:21

there's a little pass in the mountain, like you

3:23

could go up the mountain and go around and like you could go

3:25

to the Trader Joe's. Okay. So I'm at

3:27

the Trader Joe's and then I'm driving back

3:30

with my partner and all of

3:32

a sudden we look and there's this like little nook

3:35

in with the mountain, and

3:37

I swear to God, Colin, it was. It

3:39

was literally a cult

3:43

set up situation. It was

3:45

like it was this little nook, yes, and

3:48

it was four like

3:50

panels with like it

3:54

was like silhouetted figures, and

3:56

then there was a little chapel thing right

3:59

in the middle. Love it

4:01

with Like I think there was like a pew setup

4:05

happening as well. There was nobody

4:07

there calling.

4:09

Whoa.

4:10

It was just sitting out

4:13

in public. There's no place to park.

4:15

It's just on his fountain. I got it really

4:17

fucking creepy.

4:18

Any chance, just California,

4:21

you know, since I live in Tennessee. I have to ask the music.

4:23

Video music video, do we.

4:25

Think it was maybe like an art

4:27

piece? Do we think it was?

4:28

Here's the thing. If it was, it could

4:31

be an art piece maybe, But if it was a music

4:33

video, they would have tore it. They would have tore it down. I

4:35

feel like if it was like a filming situation, because it

4:38

was like flimsy looking it

4:40

was. If it was a music video, it

4:42

wasn't gonna be looking to The pews.

4:44

Were flimsy, is what you're saying. Like if you sat on

4:46

me, like you're gonna fall over.

4:48

Every Yeah, everything was flimsy looking.

4:51

That's how it would be.

4:52

I think it. I think it was usable, but

4:54

it wasn't like I don't know,

4:56

it was like it was a little it

4:58

was a little suspect, but it it was like we were

5:00

coming up around it at like the point the

5:03

sun was going down, and it felt very

5:05

creepy. Everything was in red.

5:07

It was like red and black and it was like

5:09

some I don't want to

5:11

like embellish, but I feel like it was. There was like

5:14

a a like goat figure

5:17

as like the centerpiece thing. It

5:19

was like a goat. I guess, I don't know, something

5:21

else is like a wolf or something.

5:23

Well, loocome back. It was like paranormal

5:25

activity. Six Joe's Los

5:27

Angeles. Yeah,

5:30

oh my god. All right, Well, I

5:32

don't even know where to begin with that. I don't

5:34

even know where to end with that.

5:37

I'm just gonna say she's just in the podcast.

5:39

That's it. That's it, We're done.

5:40

I'm gonna choose to move on from that and actually

5:42

get to music business news anyway.

5:46

Uh, Joe, why don't

5:48

you start off with this? So we're talking about something

5:50

that happened in my own backyard that destroyed

5:53

the city.

5:53

Yeah, for many I did not get

5:55

to witness this, but I wish I did.

5:57

I had a lot of friends go during

6:00

this night in particular, but Taylor Swift

6:03

had her Midnight Rain performance.

6:07

Do you like what I did there? Called instead of Purple Rain,

6:13

Yeah, but she has a song called Midnight

6:15

Rain that she played at

6:18

midnight in the rain in

6:20

Nashville.

6:21

You literally could have just made that up.

6:23

I keep going, No, no, it's true.

6:25

It's a Simmailers have played Nashville's

6:28

very own Nissan Stadium

6:30

this past week during an insane

6:32

thunderstorm that caused fans

6:34

and artists alike to take

6:36

shelter until about ten

6:39

pm, which is four hours after

6:41

the show was supposed to kick off, with Phoebe

6:44

Bridger's and Gracie Abrams schedule to open

6:46

the show, but due to the short amount

6:48

of time, the production made the decision

6:50

to cut their sets entirely, with Taylor

6:52

Swift just taking the stage right

6:55

about like ten pm. So

6:58

there was like so much rain, Colin

7:00

you probably had friends there as well, Like

7:02

there was like everybody was like packed

7:05

underneath the Nissan like automan.

7:08

Situation than the shows that it didn't rain.

7:11

Oh yeah, no, I mean this was the most

7:14

like this was also the last night

7:16

of the three night run, so it was

7:18

like perfect for her

7:22

and for like everything to get picked up.

7:24

But then, I what's

7:26

crazy is like seeing all the videos,

7:29

everybody's just like sitting in

7:31

these like concrete like

7:34

little areas and it looks like, you

7:36

know, like when you're in school and you're doing a

7:38

tornado warning.

7:40

Yeah, it didn't help. And then like the way

7:42

that like just the outfits of Taylor

7:44

Swift are very like, you know, very

7:46

like glitter.

7:47

Everybody was blamed down. Everybody

7:49

was like wearing pink, and it was like crazy.

7:52

But then like like yeah,

7:54

I mean it was very much as middle

7:57

school dance, but like a lot of sequence,

7:59

you know, like cut to cut

8:01

to the actual performance. The

8:04

rain was still happening like during

8:06

the whole thing. So those

8:08

of you wondering about, I guess like let's go back to

8:10

like how long it lasted, because the whole

8:13

show lasted until one

8:15

thirty five AM,

8:18

so ten pm to one

8:20

thirty five, and this.

8:21

Was Sunday, right, so this is really Monday.

8:23

Sunday night. She did the

8:26

whole entire performance, which

8:28

is it's pretty insane

8:31

to think about and those of you wondering about

8:33

curfew, because we talked

8:35

about this with our last couple of episodes

8:37

with like Coachella and kind

8:39

of the issues that came with, you

8:42

know, Frank Ocean Set and everything. H

8:45

Nissan Stadium is city

8:47

owned and is not subject

8:49

to restrictions that other venues

8:52

face. So the local government

8:54

essentially kept the lights on because they were

8:56

terrified to let loose seventy

8:59

thousand angry Swifties into

9:01

the wild. As Billboard puts

9:03

it, so God, I

9:05

want you to imagine this. You're on Broadway,

9:09

terrible keeps going rain. It's yeah, I

9:11

know, it's not a great night. Okay, You're like free

9:13

drinks. Someone

9:15

pulls you out there. You're like, ah, this is horrible.

9:18

You'll look down the street.

9:20

It's it's also raining, by the way, it's like raining.

9:23

It's not fun. You look down

9:25

the street and you see an armada

9:28

of Sequence Taylor

9:31

Swift Swifties heading

9:33

down Broadway coming your way. What

9:37

is your plan of escape in

9:40

that moment? The whole and as you

9:42

know, like with any concert letout, all

9:44

of downtown's fucked. Like trying

9:47

to get out of that

9:49

sphere is almost next to him, possible,

9:51

Yeah, because.

9:52

Like it was so bad just even

9:54

without the rain and stuff like that. I can

9:56

attest to that. There was a I saw

9:59

there was a graphic around which you know, I

10:01

can't verify the validity of. But Taylor

10:03

Swift was playing three nights. Janet

10:06

Jackson was also playing Bridge Dome,

10:08

which was the same thing that happened

10:11

at in Atlanta, which was the tour

10:13

stop before there. And also

10:16

there was a like some sort of like brewing

10:18

convention, like an IPA brewers

10:21

convention Music City Center that weekend.

10:23

And the really icing on the cake is

10:25

I believe MTSU, lipscumb

10:28

and Belmont, three very major colleges

10:31

around Nashville. All we're having graduation at

10:33

the same time. So it

10:35

was nightmarish. So then we add

10:37

this situation. I don't know what I'm gonna do here.

10:39

I mean, I could start running up Demumbrian,

10:42

but I'm gonna lose steam. That's just a giant hill,

10:46

so is Broadway.

10:47

Yeah, are you are? You just gonna

10:49

like run the East?

10:51

But that's the problem is I gotta go through them.

10:53

It's like if I got to go through the pedestrian bridge,

10:56

then I'm just literally like yeah, like

10:58

like then I'm in like a left for day scenario.

11:01

We're literally on.

11:01

The gonna look like I imagine

11:04

it's like Lord of the Rings where you're like looking

11:06

out and you just see all right,

11:09

all the pink, all all

11:12

everything is just like coming your way.

11:14

Yeah, it's just.

11:15

And everybody in that scenario, like everybody's

11:18

just been pained on, Yeah, rained on

11:20

and is mad and so like.

11:22

So they're definitely getting drinks. You know that

11:25

every single one of them are gonna go.

11:26

So as you're saying, like if they closed it maybe at like ten

11:29

o'clock, they're like, guys, she's not gonna play, But

11:31

most of them would be canceled at that point, like

11:34

most of the bars would start kind of closing.

11:36

But at the same time, I don't know, you

11:39

can't go uptown because if

11:41

you start going uptown, like again,

11:43

you're running up a hill. I'm assuming I'm on foot.

11:46

By the way, being in a car sounds worse than

11:48

the scenario. Then if

11:50

you're trying to go uptown and then maybe across

11:52

the other bridge near the courthouse, they're

11:54

also gonna be there because that's how you get

11:57

out of Nissan. It's just I'm screwed,

11:59

like.

12:00

There's no escape. I think it's

12:02

like a zombie.

12:02

I think literally what I have to do is run up

12:04

to Mumbrian, go to that giant roundabout

12:07

and just start running towards like

12:09

west and just like find

12:12

a spot to like hunker down for

12:14

like an hour or two and then leave. Like

12:16

literally, but.

12:17

Like you could, you could swim in the river

12:20

if you were truly, I'm.

12:22

Not touching that water. I've seen from

12:24

Second Avenue what people have done in that water,

12:26

and I'm not touching that water.

12:28

Yeah, it's it glows green.

12:30

Sometimes I'm not looking at that weird roller coaster

12:33

monument across the street. I'm not looking at

12:35

any of it.

12:35

I refuse to we

12:38

I had an event one time that

12:40

was like at the little cafe that's

12:42

like right next to that thing. I

12:45

just don't remember staring. Yeah, I just

12:47

remember staring at that thing, just

12:50

trying to figure out what the fuck is

12:53

the reason for it.

12:55

I joke, it's a really memorial to people

12:57

who you know, had an

13:00

she on a rollercoaster and sadly passed away.

13:02

That's not what it is. It's the weirdest memorial.

13:05

Look up the Dollywood memorial yet

13:08

literally.

13:08

Like, I have no idea what that memorial's for. It's

13:10

gonna be really sad. If it's something bad, I'm going to

13:12

fight figure out what it is.

13:14

But anyway, before

13:16

we get canceled.

13:17

Oh yeah, so anyway, I apologize,

13:19

I'm sorry if that is what,

13:21

whatever that's for, I'm hoping that

13:24

it's like for the.

13:24

Cob spirit of a mariapologizing. Colin

13:27

is sitting down, He's getting ready for his YouTube

13:29

apology. It's sorry

13:35

anyway. Swift, who is a showwoman

13:38

to the core, brought out amazing

13:40

acts during the sets, such as Phoebe, who

13:43

sung red Taylor's version and Nothing

13:45

New, as well as bringing out collaborate her

13:47

Aaron Desner from The National,

13:49

who played along with Taylor and

13:52

was actually with her when the rain started

13:54

falling down and they kind of just looked at each other and

13:56

they said, well, I guess we're doing this thing, uh,

13:59

and they cantinued the show, which

14:01

is the most metal Taylor Swift show on

14:03

the planet.

14:04

Yea.

14:05

And what's unfortunate is that phoebe intro

14:08

didn't happen this night, which

14:10

Colin, have you seen clips of that at

14:13

all? Of she like her

14:15

Walkouts song is Coorn

14:18

and it's like it's like metal, Like

14:21

there's like flames and shit happening in the graphics.

14:25

It's so sick. But

14:28

what a way to close out her three night run

14:31

in Nashvilleville coll It Well.

14:33

First off, a serious question here,

14:37

what do you think about the people who

14:39

had to leave, especially like with families,

14:42

little kids. Do you think that they

14:44

should get their money back in this situation?

14:48

Do you think it's fair that those

14:50

people who had to leave for like a

14:53

legitimate reason still

14:55

have to pay these these insane Live

14:59

Nation fees essentially?

15:01

So, I do think

15:03

that this

15:07

is where it gets hard, and this is where terms of service

15:09

come into play. Right where you

15:13

had signed this agreement that no one has ever

15:15

read in their lives with lab Nation

15:17

to buy this ticket and or

15:20

yeah I believe it's lab Nation, Yeah,

15:22

and you sign

15:24

this agreement with the promoter. If I'm wrong, maybe

15:26

it's a g I don't know. But the point is is that you

15:29

signed this agreement no one's ever read it. And

15:33

one of those is definitely a weather clause of some

15:35

sort, being

15:38

like you know, if

15:40

you've ever read like an insurance document, you know the

15:43

will of God or something like that. It's there's

15:45

gonna be a statement about that, you know what I mean, Like if something

15:47

crazy happens, then like sorry,

15:50

you know what I mean, you it just happens.

15:52

It gets can and at the end of the day,

15:55

it didn't get canceled. They just got postponed, which

15:59

is a very different scen because then.

16:01

The dick get postponed very

16:03

dramatically, like like hours, which

16:06

I feel like in most cases might

16:10

not happen.

16:11

Well, you said such high

16:13

demand that like there is no

16:15

reschedule, like if.

16:17

We it's well, and like Billboard

16:19

points out, it might be a public safety issue.

16:22

I guess if you're like letting all this people out into

16:24

the.

16:24

Rain, oh absolutely, Like yeah, then

16:27

you're you're going into shelter in place

16:29

and all that kind of stuff, especially with thunderstorms

16:31

and you know, very bad torrential

16:34

rain, which is what people have told me they experience,

16:36

and you know, in town literally less

16:38

than a couple of miles from the police.

16:40

Yeah, it was pretty bad, you know what I mean. Sunday it wasn't

16:43

like scary bad where I was. But if

16:45

you have seventy thousand people, heavy rain

16:47

and thunderstorms, that just ensues.

16:49

Not only like you

16:51

know, you have risks of falling, you have risk

16:53

of you know, electrical hazards from lightning, but

16:55

you just also get panic between crowds

16:58

and then you know, especially with bad weather, people

17:01

get anxious and all that kind of stuff. So like

17:03

I completely agree with, hey,

17:06

let's keep these people in place. You know, everybody

17:09

understands, like, we're not doing this

17:11

on purpose. This is a safety thing. It's

17:14

the weather. I mean, it sucks, but it's not

17:16

like we're just like, hey, there's nothing visibly going

17:18

on and we're just going to stop the show. It's like, no, it's

17:21

rain, cats and dogs out here, and

17:23

there's thunder, which is the main thing. I mean,

17:25

thunder and lightning, which is why they're worried

17:28

more about it, which is why they kept going, even

17:30

in the little bits of rain that would

17:32

occur during the show, because you can do

17:34

it in the rain. Anyway,

17:37

Do I think about refunds here?

17:41

I would be interested in an

17:44

argument for it. I

17:47

think someone definitely could. And if I

17:49

was like Live Nation at the end of the day,

17:52

if you were like really on it, like

17:54

hey, guys, we were supposed to

17:56

get out of here at like eleven o'clock Max,

17:59

and so I delete, like an hour into Taylor's

18:01

show or something. Can I get

18:03

a partial refund? I think you should be

18:06

able to go, yeah, okay, you know that sucks,

18:08

And as a customer service

18:11

thing, I feel like that's not bad. But at the same

18:13

time, they delivered, right, most

18:16

most people are buying these tickets,

18:18

no shade to Phoebe or you

18:21

know, any of the other yeah, Gracie, any

18:23

of the other openers if this happens too, But

18:26

like, most people are buying

18:28

these tickets to see Taylor swift

18:31

and then as an added bonus, these

18:34

are the openers that maybe you would also like.

18:36

That's how a lot of people see this, in my opinion.

18:39

So at the end of the day,

18:41

Taylor did come on, she

18:44

did her full set, she continued

18:46

to do it. She was there. There was an opportunity

18:49

the day of the ticket I

18:51

could totally be like, yeah, you know, I'm

18:53

satisfied. And I think from a fan perspective,

18:56

there's a lot of fans like logistically,

18:58

if I look from the pspective, just

19:00

be like, oh, the weather sucked, but like

19:03

literally no one can control that,

19:06

right, So, and

19:08

especially with like rain and

19:10

you know, random sporadic pieces of

19:13

weather. Literally there's no indication.

19:16

You know, come on, con you don't think

19:18

Live Nation heads, oh weather

19:20

Machine go into their

19:23

their sacrificial room and pray

19:27

to the Live Nation got.

19:28

I mean in the set like that you guys saw in California.

19:31

Yeah, that's where they go.

19:33

But it's office actually yeah

19:35

right no.

19:36

But like seriously that like no one can predict

19:38

this, So I feel like from Live Nation's perspective,

19:40

they could totally argue be like, no, she

19:42

did play, it was postponed. I mean,

19:45

it's an extreme postponement. I

19:47

think that is as far as they

19:49

could have postponed, you know what I mean, Like four

19:51

hours that's cutting it,

19:54

you know what I mean.

19:54

At the end of the day, Yeah, I mean, it's

19:57

pretty incredible that she went

20:00

through the whole set.

20:02

And that's the other thing. It's a triumph

20:04

for her, I think at the end of the day, and

20:07

especially the from like a tech

20:09

perspective, that's a very hard thing to

20:11

do, is deal with

20:13

the rain and the weather and the sporaded nature

20:15

of it. Especially with Taylor who has choreography

20:18

and you know all this. It's not like she's

20:21

not a rock band who just stands there, you know

20:23

what I mean, Like she's doing dance

20:25

moves, she's running up and down the runway,

20:27

she's doing.

20:28

Costume changes, you know, the

20:31

stage.

20:31

Literally like and so I think

20:34

like, at the end of the day, that's a testament

20:37

to her skill and her ability

20:39

as a performer and her dedication to her

20:41

fans that she kept on going

20:43

anyway. I personally think

20:45

that because of that and that how that apparent

20:47

is, like how apparent that is two fans,

20:50

that the amount of people that probably want

20:52

a refund is very little. And

20:55

from a live nation perspective, I

20:57

bet you it's so little that I would just be like, just

20:59

give it to them, you know what I mean, Like

21:02

it's probably an inconsequential amount

21:04

of people that want this kind

21:06

of refund, and it's it's not like it's

21:10

not like there's some growing mass that I've

21:12

heard of that are like, hey, guys, we should

21:14

all try to get some partial reform from

21:16

Ticketmaster, and like there's some I'm

21:19

thinking from Ticketmaster's angle like

21:21

be like, oh man, I got to think in my head,

21:23

if we like start approving refunds, then maybe

21:25

other people will come through. I don't

21:27

think so I think a lot of people left that show,

21:30

and honestly, a lot of people that I saw

21:32

were kind of like, Wow, what

21:34

a very special

21:36

experience I had, you know

21:38

what I mean, Like with Taylor when

21:40

it rained and stuff like, it was almost like that

21:43

sucked, but I get to be part of something maybe

21:45

historic, you know. To them,

21:47

Yeah, so like it's almost like, in a weird way,

21:50

like that sucked, but that was kind of a cool moment

21:52

in my life. So I again, I think

21:54

it's a very I

21:56

think the amount of people that would want it. If I

21:58

was ticketmaster, I'd be yeah, take, I don't care

22:00

whatever, here you go, you know what I mean,

22:02

Maybe like less than a thousand

22:05

people I bet would ask for refunds for this.

22:07

But do you do

22:10

you think? So Colin, from your from your

22:12

perspective in live entertainment,

22:15

because you've worked so many events and

22:18

work with event professionals

22:20

on the day to day, what are some

22:22

like what's kind of your perspective

22:24

of like what's the run through of like a

22:27

performance that's dealing with this, I

22:29

guess, like what's kind of the breakdown of different

22:33

things that happen, So

22:35

like our audience kind of has an under Yeah.

22:37

I mean you got to listen at the end of the day

22:39

to all of these big events have a

22:42

very inline safety plan and a

22:45

very brick and mortar if

22:47

this thing happens, we are doing this and

22:51

they will follow that. You know, at the end of the day.

22:54

A lot of times they'll you know, the production

22:56

manager will you know,

22:58

be with the venue and use this

23:01

large event. There's a safety coordinator, all

23:03

that kind of stuff, and they will, you know, bring

23:05

up, hey, guys, I'm sure

23:08

hours before we think it's gonna rain,

23:10

right in the middle of the set. We're

23:12

gonna play it by ear, but

23:15

we got to be prepared. Tell all your people at your

23:17

respected places, go tell audio, go tell video,

23:19

go tell lighting, like you know, everybody

23:22

who's involved, go tell. You know, people

23:24

were doing makeup and costumes. So that is

23:26

probably gonna rain, and we're gonna go through our you

23:28

know, our kind of step

23:31

by step process which you

23:33

know, if it's gonna rain, then

23:36

you got to prepare on the tech side from

23:38

like protecting the equipment at the end of the day.

23:40

I mean, you've got speakers in the air,

23:43

you know, you got equipment,

23:46

electronics on the ground, you got lighting in the air, all

23:48

that kind of stuff. If especially if there's wind, that's

23:50

a possibility you have to prepare for.

23:53

I think we might need to take down this pa.

23:55

I think we might need to take down this trusting you know what

23:57

I mean, because at the end of the day, it's

23:59

not gonna survive super torrential

24:01

wins. It'll survive some, but like not super

24:05

high bad storm. I mean, I think everyone

24:08

here has probably seen a video of a stage

24:10

collapsing, and that's where a lot

24:12

of it comes from. It's just like high

24:14

tipping and wind risk. So

24:16

yeah, they all start in their respective departments,

24:18

taking their own precautions. I mean, being

24:21

an audio person I am, I would go, all

24:23

right, anything that we can, you

24:25

know, if we got tarps with with literally

24:27

a weather caddy, like a lot of tours will

24:29

tour with a weather caddy like that literally

24:32

is for this idea that like, hey,

24:34

it's gonna rain for like two hours and then we're gonna

24:36

do the show. Okay, go cover all this

24:38

random stuff that's exposed with tarps,

24:41

you know what I mean. And so they'll

24:43

start preparing for that. Then

24:46

you know, obviously the production manager's got to go tell

24:48

the acts and their respective managers being

24:50

like, hey, Phoebe, you know, we

24:52

don't know. It looks like it's gonna rain really heavy,

24:55

but you're gonna get delayed. They're gonna

24:57

get delayed, and then probably have real talks with the other

24:59

Phoebe to the man as time goes on going,

25:02

Hey, you know, they've decided to

25:04

cut your set all that kind of stuff between

25:07

everybody else, you know, and the showrunner and the

25:09

promoter and everybody. So they

25:12

take it one step at a time at the end of the day, but

25:14

a lot of these are locked in. You

25:16

know, hey, everybody do your respective things

25:18

at once. They prepare for this situation. They

25:20

have literally binders usually

25:23

that they keep around that say this is what you do

25:25

in this scenario. And it

25:27

goes from literally something as

25:31

simple as this, it's a raining, there's

25:33

lightning all the way to there's an active shooter,

25:36

there's a fire, there's a bomb, you

25:38

know what I mean, like everything in between there.

25:40

And when you have literally close to seventy thousand

25:42

people in Nissan Stadium all

25:45

running around, you cannot mess around

25:47

with that kind of stuff. So yeah,

25:49

I yeah, it's so funny you said

25:52

that, because my mom actually was like, how do they do it

25:54

in the rain? Does it suck for the equipment? I'm

25:56

like, oh yeah, baby, it sucks.

25:58

It's so bad. I

26:00

mean, things get wet. I mean, thankfully

26:04

most gear, especially

26:07

at a you know level that Taylor is,

26:09

which is you know, in my opinion

26:11

right now, the biggest tour in America and probably

26:13

the biggest tour in the world

26:16

in terms of like notoriety.

26:18

Right now, there

26:21

is such a level of high performance

26:23

gear that a lot of this gear is weather rise.

26:26

You know, a lot of this gear is prepared to work

26:28

in weird conditions, be agile

26:30

with temperature and humidity and all that kind

26:32

of stuff. So the main

26:34

thing for the text is just trying to keep everything

26:37

as you know, operational

26:39

as possible, which is why you keep with like

26:41

spars and all this kind of stuff. You know, the

26:44

idea of like, oh, if Taylor has this

26:46

pack, like you know, a wireless pack that

26:48

she listens who are in ears, the thing gets

26:50

dredged with water or something, you know what

26:52

i mean, like and some water goes into place, and

26:55

most of the time the packs are very well

26:57

designed to you know, have water come off of it stuff

27:00

and all that kind of stuff. But let's just say something

27:02

happened. This one's been on tour for a while and

27:05

water got into it in the pack just like jittered

27:07

out and it doesn't work anymore. They have to be ready

27:09

to be like, okay, you have a second pack, you know

27:11

what I mean, And it might be literally on her body.

27:13

She might have two packs, you know what I mean,

27:16

and she might just switch over the jack in the

27:18

back of her like you know, shirt got you

27:20

know what I mean, really quick into the other jack and be

27:22

like, Okay, I'm ready to go. So that's

27:25

the kind of forethought that you have to have, and especially

27:27

with weather, then you're gonna risk more

27:31

failure when it comes to literally everything

27:33

on the stage, not as well as safety

27:35

at the end of the day. I mean, people fall

27:37

on stages that are bone dry. So

27:40

if you got water, like oh man,

27:42

you know what I mean. Like I said, you got people doing choreography,

27:44

you got people dancing, you got all this stuff,

27:47

and all of that has to be thought

27:49

from the beginning of the planning process, right Like

27:51

you got to think like, oh well, all

27:54

this cable can be on the stage, it

27:56

can be in the middle stage. They got to dance here, you

27:58

know what I mean, And we don't want anybody to trip over.

28:00

And that's in dry weather. Imagine if it's all

28:02

wet now. So

28:05

yeah, I mean at the end of the day, like a

28:07

lot of this is thought through, but with

28:10

just smart planning from the beginning. But

28:12

then afterwards, like you know, if it's

28:15

something like Taylor or the venue

28:17

and everything, it reminds me a lot

28:19

of There's a lot of other notable

28:22

concerts like Guns and Roses have won in

28:25

in Los Angeles, I believe in the late

28:27

eighties. It's very notable because it caused

28:30

a giant riot because they canceled last

28:32

minute. It

28:34

literally people were rioting in the streets, like

28:37

flipping cars over doing this stuff because

28:39

they're so upset that this happened.

28:41

I can see I can see Swifties doing that.

28:43

Right, you know what I mean. I

28:46

would say there's different crowds, you know what

28:48

I mean, But at the same time, you just

28:50

don't know.

28:51

I'm I'm truly serious.

28:53

I could see I could

28:55

see Swifties taking over the world.

28:58

Well yeah, if they wanted to, I think so too. I

29:01

just think the thing is is that you know, with

29:03

seventy thousand people if you think

29:06

they can't do something, I guarantee you they

29:08

can. And at

29:10

the end of the day, it's just all this

29:12

weather stuff causes so much more of a risk for the

29:14

crew and also a risk for Taylor

29:17

and the team and the equipment. So for them

29:19

doing that, that really shows like, hey, we

29:22

are choosing as a

29:25

community that is on this tour, you

29:27

know, to do our best to power through

29:30

because we want to make sure these seventy

29:32

thousand fans are one obviously

29:35

getting their money's worth. Two they've been waiting

29:37

the rain forever, and three we don't

29:39

want anything crazy to potentially happen, you

29:41

know what I mean, Like, we don't want, you know,

29:43

a mob mentality to just randomly break

29:45

out. I'm not going to say that like, oh,

29:48

of course I would think Swifties would do this. I'm

29:50

just saying, when you have seventy thousand people

29:52

that all have, you know, a upset,

29:55

anxious emotion, you do not know

29:58

what will happen, you know what I mean, and

30:01

so you have to prepare for the worst. So

30:03

I think this was the move at the end of the day, was to

30:05

keep going through it. And I'm glad

30:07

the city

30:10

government just you know, Nashville didn't do

30:12

anything to like be like, ah, let's just get rid

30:14

of it. It's like twelve o'clock. It's

30:16

too late. Yea, it's a Monday. Like I'm really

30:19

glad that it was like Okay, let's

30:21

keep going, you know what I mean. And even though

30:23

it was one thirty five am. I think a lot of people

30:25

thankfully did have a really good time.

30:28

And I've heard nobody say like, oh,

30:31

wow, that sucked. You know, there was like it

30:33

rained or whatever, and there's a bunch of technical difference.

30:35

No, they powered through it. They were ready,

30:37

you know what I mean, That crew and Taylor were.

30:40

So I think they created out

30:42

of a bad experience a very unique

30:44

experience for people that people will go, I was

30:47

there, you know what I mean, in twenty twenty.

30:49

Three, people are going to be really, yeah, really

30:51

stoked about it. So I

30:53

don't know, I don't know, pretty great great

30:56

concert experience, honestly.

30:57

Yeah, And that's hard to take the show.

31:00

That's really hard to take from a very

31:03

very obtusive negative

31:05

or obtuse negative experience, like

31:07

literally that should just be oh this

31:09

is gonna suck. To make it into an event.

31:12

It almost reminds me. It

31:14

reminds me in the same way, but even

31:16

less so because again, she's playing for four hours.

31:18

It's raining, it's not raining. It's raining, it's not raining.

31:21

But like when Prince played, you know, the Super Bowl

31:23

while it was raining, right, yeah, like that's

31:25

the but she did it for like four hours.

31:27

So good on her and her team for powering

31:29

threats.

31:33

Well, Colin, what is

31:35

up next?

31:36

All right, let's talk about this. People

31:38

have asked me to talk about this. I was waiting for it

31:41

to conclude before we really talked about

31:43

it. We're talking about Ed Sheeran and

31:45

this copyright case he's been involved with.

31:47

Which which concluded

31:50

pretty fast. I thought it was gonna take

31:53

a lot more time, right, honestly.

31:55

So this was a very notable case for a couple

31:57

of reasons. It

32:00

had the potential to be as

32:03

huge of a case that we've talked about it

32:05

multiple times on the show, but you can look into it yourself.

32:08

Is the Blurred Lines versus Marvin Gay case,

32:11

where it has huge ramifications

32:14

of what is considered precedent

32:16

for copyright, specifically with songs,

32:19

and the two parties involved in this

32:21

case that we're going to talk about right now, are

32:24

sadly very not unfamiliar

32:27

with the legal system. And so the

32:29

first one is Ed Sheeran. So Ed Sheeran

32:32

obviously has been

32:34

and I'll get into it later, been out of the

32:36

court system literally since the twenty tens,

32:38

with various consistent copyright

32:41

battles over and over and over, and he's

32:44

has been getting it literally since his career

32:46

really started a plateau like with copyright

32:49

claims and all this kind of stuff. The

32:51

song that this time is

32:53

getting accosted with was Thinking

32:55

Out Loud, which

32:58

you know, a lot of people know because it was a huge,

33:00

mega hit song and

33:04

it was at the forefront of everything for

33:06

a very good amount of time and then it kind

33:08

of fell out. But it's one of Ed's signature

33:10

songs that he takes a lot of pride in. And

33:13

so this lawsuit that was brought against

33:15

him specifically was by the family of

33:18

Ed Townsend, which

33:21

are we noticing a trend here? I

33:23

hear a lot of the family of and

33:25

not a lot of the artists doing this a

33:27

lot of the time. But Ed Townsend

33:30

was the co writer with Marvin

33:33

Gay and Marvin Gay

33:35

and him wrote the signature hit Let's

33:37

Get it on, which they alleged

33:40

that Thinking out Loud took the rhythm,

33:42

chord progression and other elements

33:45

from without the permission, from

33:48

the nineteen seventy three song by Marvin

33:50

Gay. So

33:52

again, all three of those things rhythm

33:55

copyright, rhythm

33:57

chord progression and other elements by

33:59

themselves are not copyrightable, but

34:01

together are the core basis of a song.

34:04

Right, So what they're trying to say is like,

34:06

hey, you have copied

34:08

or this is derivative is what the word would

34:11

be from our song. And

34:14

together your elements add up to

34:16

something that is applicable

34:18

and also very easy to notice

34:21

that this is a copy or

34:23

derivative of our song. Right. So

34:27

the guy who was the attorney

34:29

for the plaintiffs and so that would

34:31

be Ed Townsend and them is a guy named Ben Crump,

34:34

and he alleged that Sheeron

34:36

quote recognize the magic Let's

34:39

get it on, and infringed on its

34:41

copyright for the tune, and that the case

34:44

is about giving credit where

34:46

credit is due. Sure

34:49

right, sure it is, so,

34:51

Ed Sheeron again, I'll tell you what the

34:53

songs are. It's Let's get it on and Thinking out Loud.

34:56

If you want to pause this right now. I found

34:58

a YouTube video of them like kind

35:00

of played like one section of one and

35:02

one section of the other, and you're

35:04

gonna see spoilers. How

35:07

ridiculous this case is. Anyway,

35:11

Ed Sheeran has been fighting

35:13

this fight literally forever, and he's

35:16

freaking done with Quartz, Like

35:18

he is so done with it.

35:20

Like he even went on to state that,

35:23

like if this

35:26

case went on and he lost,

35:28

he said, quote, if that happens, I'm done.

35:31

I'm stopping, which he's talking about

35:33

playing music and writing songs.

35:35

Yeah, is insane, right.

35:38

He goes, I find it really insulting to

35:40

work my whole life as a singer songwriter

35:42

and diminish it. Which I don't

35:44

blame him, because if you listen to those two songs

35:46

back to back, what

35:49

the hell is the connection other than the

35:51

key is the same.

35:53

It's there's zero connection at

35:55

all, And like that's the thing that like what's

35:57

funny is like the comments sometimes the

35:59

YouTube it's really hit, you know, but

36:01

I love like where everyone's just like

36:04

especially the Marvin Gay estate, they're known

36:06

to sue a bunch of people, and

36:10

it is it's funny because it's like, yeah,

36:12

that chord progression was

36:15

the same. We owned that chord progression

36:18

because our father did it one

36:20

time, and now he

36:22

owns that chord progression. No, that's

36:25

not how songwriting works. It's

36:27

not how the process of it works.

36:29

And they're trying to monopolize songwriting

36:33

in a horrible way. And it's truly

36:37

what's honestly, truly dumbfounded about

36:39

this whole situation is like I don't think

36:41

Marvin gay would have wanted this at

36:44

all or or

36:46

anything. Yeah, I just don't

36:48

think their families were in touch

36:50

enough of like how

36:53

the industry actually works for them to

36:57

like they don't have any stake in the industry. Besides,

36:59

they view as like, oh, this is our piggy

37:01

bank. We can just like keep gushing

37:05

some coins out of this thing, you

37:07

know. And it's it's surely sad.

37:09

It's it's very sad, especially because his

37:12

estate, the Marvin Gaye State, is so wealthy

37:15

already, right, Like, do you need

37:17

more money from people at

37:19

the end of the day, Yeah,

37:22

anyway, I'll drop off my soapbox.

37:25

No.

37:25

I mean I think you're hidden it. I think you're hidden it right

37:27

on the nail. I mean, it's kind of insane,

37:29

Like if you again, I encourage

37:32

you to listen to both songs and come back to

37:34

me and tell me, like and go this

37:36

song. I would immediately go, oh,

37:38

and I'm gonna play a little Devil's advocate. I

37:41

understand from

37:43

like a basic earworm

37:45

thing going there's a similarity

37:47

there, But there's

37:50

so many songs that are similar that

37:52

it is insane that this would

37:54

be enough to go, hey, this is effectively

37:57

the same song, right, And

37:59

so let me

38:01

tell you a little bit about the court case.

38:04

Ed was not messing around. He

38:06

literally was like multiple

38:09

times taking the stand. He would

38:11

take the stand and he would literally

38:13

bring his guitar out and sing

38:16

to the court, to the court just

38:18

showing them the differences, like

38:20

going like this is different, this is

38:22

that. Like literally he is at

38:25

the lowest level showing

38:27

the differences between these songs.

38:29

And here there was apparently

38:33

right and he was.

38:35

He was literally not having it, especially with

38:37

this musicologist. He was not having it. So the plaintiffs,

38:40

the Townshend family, brought in this guy

38:42

named Alexander Stewart, and he's a musicologist,

38:45

which usually in my experience,

38:47

only comes up when it is a copyright

38:49

case. I don't. I don't hear a lot about musicologists

38:51

unless we got to prove that somebody violated

38:54

copyright. But basically,

38:57

Alexander Stewart was

38:59

brought by the Towns of Family to show the similarities

39:01

between the song, which I do agree there are

39:04

similarities, but not enough to be copyrightedly

39:07

like the same or derivative right,

39:09

Like you can hear there's like a downward

39:11

inflection in like some of the lines

39:13

or whatever. You can hear like the keys the same or

39:15

whatever. But literally, people are laughing

39:18

at this guy on the stand. He tried

39:20

to play this like ai version of both

39:22

songs to show that they were the same,

39:24

and literally the chord started laughing. He

39:26

did he literally did, Yes,

39:29

Ed ed Apparently it was

39:31

it was written that Ed was like hiding a

39:33

smile because he thought it was so bad, Like

39:36

it looks like he's trying not to laugh

39:38

because obviously he's in court and this is very serious.

39:41

Yeah.

39:42

They also showed which this

39:44

was hilarious to me. They showed live footage

39:47

where Sharan played both

39:49

songs like back

39:51

to back in a concert, so

39:54

like he's playing thinking out loud to

39:56

do a little transition and then they

39:58

play let's get.

39:59

It on right.

40:00

And what's

40:02

crazy about that is that like

40:05

they were so the plaintiffs, so the towns

40:07

of family was so like we got

40:09

them with this. They said quite simply

40:12

that like, I can't

40:14

believe it.

40:15

The plaintiffs was smoking smoking

40:17

gun. Yeah, right, that's what they said.

40:20

Yeah, he said it was the smoking gun.

40:22

And then they said it was tantamount to a

40:25

confession m h

40:27

and Ed Sheeron rebutted with it's

40:29

quite simple to weave songs in and out

40:31

of each other, especially

40:34

when they're in the same key. And then my favorite

40:37

was after the music cologist goes all

40:39

the smoking gun stuff, Ed Sheeron takes the

40:41

stand and basically tells

40:44

the plaintiff's attorney is cross examining

40:46

him, asking him questions, and they

40:48

asked about the musicologists, and he goes,

40:51

if I can be honest, I think what he's

40:53

doing here is criminal, which

40:57

is wild.

40:59

Wait who and Sharon, he's

41:01

talking about the musicologist.

41:02

He said, if I can be honest, I

41:05

think what he's doing here is criminal

41:07

talking about the musicologist.

41:09

WHOA And

41:13

I'll leave you with this Townshend's daughter,

41:15

who's the wead plaintiffs whose

41:17

name is Catherine Thomson Griffin Townsend.

41:19

Griffin took the witness stand

41:22

and also said, he go she goes well.

41:24

She shouldn't say that well, but I like to imagine she did. She

41:27

goes well. And Sharon is

41:29

a great artist with a great future. Like

41:31

he's not a giant artist already, Like

41:33

he's like, you know, plain little Yeah.

41:36

He's okay,

41:36

he'll.

41:38

Get there, you know, like like he's not giant.

41:40

It's like me.

41:42

It's literally like me being like Taylor Swift,

41:44

a great artist with a great future,

41:46

you know what I mean. It's like, all right, you.

41:48

Know what, maybe this guy

41:50

should do the music thing.

41:53

It's got that tone. It's like those documentaries

41:56

where like, you know, it would be like led

41:58

Zeppelin talking about like you know, Rob Plant

42:00

talking about like rete Van Pleiet be like those kids got

42:02

a great future, you know what I mean, Like okay,

42:04

whatever, But he's

42:07

she said, quote, I have to protect

42:09

my father's legacy. So

42:11

they lost, plain and simple.

42:14

Ed Sheeran did win the case and

42:17

was delighted for many reasons because,

42:20

like I told you, he's literally been

42:22

in court cases since the twenty tens,

42:25

ever since he got really big around twenty

42:27

thirteen, twenty fourteen. It is

42:29

amazing how many court cases he's

42:31

been in. One of the most notable ones

42:34

was also I was just gonna mention really quickly

42:36

was and this is the one we talked about a bit,

42:39

is he was involved in a copyright

42:41

suit for the Shape of You, and these

42:43

like two grime artists went after him right

42:46

and said, hey, you stole

42:48

our song again. In my opinion,

42:51

just like this one, two very different

42:53

songs that I would be like, they're in

42:55

the same key and they have maybe like a

42:58

downward inflection, you know what I mean.

43:00

But I would never confuse these two songs together.

43:02

I don't think like it uses a part of it or

43:04

anything like that. But

43:07

the point that I'm trying to say is that I

43:10

wonder with this because Ed

43:12

Sheeran recently and this is a recent

43:14

development one like

43:18

from my understanding, more compensation

43:21

from the Grimes artists and now

43:23

like those grime rappers have to pay

43:25

Ed Sheeran one point one million dollars

43:28

in legal fees. Whoa

43:32

which say, like, and this was

43:34

it, I should mention this is in the

43:37

UK court, so it's a little bit different, but

43:39

like, yeah, they're ordering that

43:41

they pay one point one million dollars

43:43

in legal fees, because, to be honest,

43:45

if I'm Ed Sheeron and I'm getting all these cases

43:47

because guys, look at the

43:49

freaking numbers of Ed Sheeran. I've talked

43:52

about how he was literally one of the biggest touring

43:54

artists of last year, and we you know,

43:57

he doesn't get mentioned. He's still a huge

43:59

artist, so he's's a big target,

44:01

right And like, and he makes

44:03

pop music, so it's even a bigger target, right.

44:06

So, like, he basically is just saying,

44:08

can I have my lawyer fees? It costs me

44:10

a million dollars and lawyer fees to defend

44:13

all the shit and all the travel to go to

44:15

where I needed to go all this kind of stuff,

44:17

right, Like, it's not outrageous,

44:20

Like, and I'm kinda I'm

44:23

I'm wondering if he's gonna get or try

44:25

to get something similar to that in this case

44:27

to go. You knew this case

44:31

was not worth anyone's time, and.

44:34

It was so much not worth anyone's

44:36

time. It took a week.

44:38

It literally took a week.

44:41

Because the judge was like and the

44:43

jury were like, this is dumb.

44:45

And I wonder if like,

44:48

you know, we could see somebody

44:51

come from Ed Cheeran's camp and

44:53

go, you owe us legal fees, give

44:55

us legal fees because you wasted our time and

44:58

something close to that. And you know, not

45:00

to be like he has precedent, but he kind of has precedent,

45:03

you know what I mean to be like, Yeah, these other people

45:05

sued me, and I would like, you know, money

45:08

for that too, so I would not be surprised if he

45:10

comes after this estate. And to be honest,

45:12

Joe, I kind of wanted to open up to that. We've

45:15

seen a lot in the last twenty years,

45:17

you know, when me and you were coming up through the industry, a

45:20

lot of these fruitless lawsuits.

45:22

Personally, I think partially due to the ease

45:25

of access of the Internet, you know, and

45:27

everything. When it comes to music and being

45:29

able to compare music so openly. There's even

45:31

music there's even videos I can find on YouTube

45:34

four years ago that are like just making

45:36

a fun hypothetical argument should

45:39

thinking out loud as thinking out loud

45:41

close to uh, let's get it on,

45:44

like literally there's videos from four years ago,

45:46

So the internet's adding to this. And

45:48

then there's families that have money

45:51

that you know, are trying to

45:54

reap the rewards of these copyrights

45:56

they inherit from the estate. Do

45:59

we think we should have more penalties towards

46:01

these families like that are just

46:03

going after some of these, in my opinion, frivolous

46:06

lawsuits.

46:07

To be honest, I

46:11

I'm back and forth on it because like, on

46:13

one level, I'm like, yes, I

46:17

do think so, because like there is

46:19

a level of this is different than

46:21

like someone actually suing that's

46:24

like a lower level artist. I feel like

46:26

because these people have done it so many times in the

46:28

in the past, and they have they

46:30

have literally made

46:32

careers off of winning their

46:35

legal battles from

46:37

their father's estate essentially. And

46:40

what I

46:43

feel like is kind

46:48

of a tricky situation is

46:50

where where it could it could actually

46:52

potentially if if those restrictions were put

46:54

into place, it could really restrict

46:56

someone whose situation was like

46:58

this is blainright infringement

47:02

and they have like a bad judge in a bad jury.

47:04

That's true, And so like

47:06

there is a level of that that I'm like, maybe

47:09

not, however, maybe

47:12

there's like a sliding scale of it of like

47:15

these people are really trying to there's

47:18

a level of like what I like about it

47:20

is is if you lose and you

47:22

have to pay all this money to the person that

47:24

you are trying to sue at the beginning,

47:27

it does set a precedent to other people

47:30

thinking about suing that, Hmmm, maybe

47:33

I shouldn't do that, Maybe

47:36

I should Maybe I should double check my

47:39

sources here or put

47:41

more thought into it, and

47:44

maybe maybe it would get rid of a lot of these

47:46

frivolous lawsuits. Yeah, I mean,

47:48

I definitely think they're pervasive in the music industry,

47:52

and they always.

47:53

Have been to an extent. But I

47:55

I really think like we do need

47:57

some of the precedent of being like, hey,

48:00

you brought something. Obviously

48:03

this is very interpretive, but like the idea of

48:05

being like, hey, I should be able to sue

48:07

you for this stuff because I

48:10

want my legal fees, you know what I mean, because you've

48:12

sued me. And like,

48:15

on top of that, I think for some people you

48:17

could even argue damages to be

48:19

like people thought I just copied other people's songs

48:21

because of you, you know what I mean, And

48:23

so they, you know, maybe I lost a record deal,

48:26

maybe I lost a publishing deal because they thought, oh

48:28

no, you might write a song that will cause a giant

48:30

lawsuit, you know what I mean. So

48:33

I wonder from that aspect if we

48:35

could see some formal

48:38

kind of maybe even legislation, if

48:40

we want to go that far, but definitely precedent

48:43

of going, Hey, if you're going to give us these frivolous

48:45

lawsuits, then I'm coming

48:47

after you back, you know what I mean, especially for music

48:49

stuff. And I

48:53

don't really know. I definitely

48:55

think and I want your opinion

48:57

about this, Joe. I think this is

48:59

definitely a u nique era

49:02

of these battles because

49:05

of the tools and the ease of access

49:07

that we have with music. I mean,

49:10

to be honest, to really be

49:12

honest, Like the ability

49:15

and fastness of like getting

49:17

a lawyer, representation and stuff has been sped

49:19

up dramatically. The amount of people that

49:21

know about this copyright issues and

49:24

the power of owning these copyrights has gone

49:26

up dramatically. And then just the ease

49:28

of access of music. I mean, if you go

49:30

back, like literally, if you go back

49:32

to forties and like thirties

49:34

and fifties records, yeah, all

49:37

the time you go this is the same song. This

49:39

is the exact same song, Like it is

49:42

ungodly the same song. But

49:44

I wonder if, like, you know, people were making

49:46

YouTube.

49:47

It was kind of part of the culture

49:49

of it right too, but making music.

49:51

I wonder if, like I

49:53

think there's a balance. I definitely think there's

49:55

a balance, and I think as like, as

49:58

a legal system, we are still figuring out

50:00

with the balance is in terms

50:02

of copyrights. But I think because

50:04

of the ease of access of everything with the

50:06

Internet and streaming specifically, I

50:09

think we're figuring out. Oh god,

50:11

we got to figure out this issue fast, you

50:13

know what I mean? Because again,

50:15

it's gone through at least three or four of these lawsuits,

50:18

and we've covered at least I believe two of them on the show,

50:20

and it's really draining.

50:23

And thankfully Ed is you

50:25

know, in a position to

50:27

have more resources to defend

50:29

himself, you know what I mean. But

50:33

it is also like, I don't think it's

50:35

necessarily a thing

50:38

that we need to be like, oh, this is just part of being

50:40

a musician. That's big. You're just gonna get sued

50:43

by a thousand people because your song,

50:45

you know what I mean. Again, he is getting sued

50:48

only because his song vaguely

50:51

has a hint of sounding similar and he's

50:53

having close to a million dollars in

50:55

legal fees, and I

50:57

wonder, like I'm saying, if there needs to be legislate

51:00

around that, going like, hey, if you guys are doing

51:02

all these and I know there's slap laws and all

51:04

that kind of stuff with like for frivolous lawsuits,

51:06

but maybe specifically towards music

51:09

stuff and precedent towards that, going, hey,

51:11

you can't just keep doing it, and we could

51:13

go I mean, I'd go on and on about this is like

51:16

also the families, right, we're talking about

51:19

families. I really don't think

51:21

like you're saying, a lot of songwriters understand

51:24

and get the culture

51:26

of you take the nuances

51:29

from one person and a nuance from another in

51:31

your own and you mix them all together and that's

51:33

your music.

51:34

Right.

51:35

And so I think

51:37

for a lot of people, especially

51:39

families who are maybe not as

51:41

like high profile and you

51:43

know, they could be musicians. But what I mean by like

51:46

who have a high level of nuance

51:48

with music not saying that I do by any

51:50

means I want to throw that in there, but people who

51:52

really understand the craft can go no,

51:55

I can hear and see the difference in that but

51:57

maybe if you're Joe Schmoe out there, you'd be like, this is the song

52:00

song, you know what I mean, Like it's the same

52:02

thing, and then they go, we

52:04

should go sue them, And then you go talk to some lawyer

52:07

and then like they're like, Ed Sheering's worth how much

52:09

amount of money? Let's just sue them anyway,

52:11

maybe we'll win, Like maybe he'll just be

52:13

like, here's one hundred thousand dollars, go away, you know

52:15

what I mean. So, I

52:19

honestly think it is part

52:21

of also the length of a copyright, you

52:23

know, the life of an author. What

52:27

is it plus one hundred and twenty years, I think

52:29

is what it is, which is insane,

52:32

you know what I mean. So, and

52:34

and with the plethora of information out there

52:36

and the ability to compare these

52:38

songs that are able, I think we're just like

52:41

I said, I think we're just gonna see more and more. So

52:43

I don't think we're necessarily

52:46

I don't want to. I don't want to go from the front end.

52:48

I don't want to go from the front end and say, hey, you

52:51

need to have this burden of proof to have a lawsuit

52:53

about copyright, because I agree with you

52:55

I think there are people that are gonna get lost in transit.

52:58

I think it's more of you better

53:00

have it, You better really believe

53:02

in this, like one hundred percent, because if you don't,

53:04

you're paying it sharance legal fees, you

53:06

know what I mean. And I, you

53:09

know, somewhat smarter than I's gonna have to come up with

53:11

the way legally, I think to figure

53:13

out like how the precedent

53:15

for that would be. But I don't know.

53:19

It's it's all about you know, at the end

53:21

of the day, music is

53:23

very cyclical. I mean, there's new things that

53:25

develop with technology and stuff, but there's

53:27

sounds that just repeat over and

53:29

over and over. Not to

53:31

be like we've discovered everything with music, but

53:34

like we kind of have discovered a lot of things

53:36

with music, and

53:39

there's things that fall in and out of fashion. You

53:41

can see that with any media literally, like fashion

53:43

is another example. You know, one year's style

53:45

is another year's faux pas. That kind of stuff,

53:48

And the same thing with music where they're

53:50

just going to copy stuff. And I think it's really important

53:52

to note like in this period, let

53:55

me take you back to deep what

53:57

is it? What would that

53:59

be? God? I feel so old almost ten years

54:01

ago when thinking

54:04

out Loud and that whole Ed Sheeran kind of

54:06

wave really started. Ed

54:08

Sheeran was an

54:10

oddity at the time because

54:12

we had gone through I mean, I remember

54:15

growing up through this. Everything became super

54:17

electronic heavy. In the late twenty tens,

54:19

you know what I mean, Like or the early twenty

54:21

tens, we had like the real rise of

54:23

trap music. We had EDM really

54:26

become EDM, you know what I

54:28

mean. We had I mean, for God's

54:30

sakes, Taylor Swift was releasing albums that sound

54:32

like DM music now, you know what I mean. And

54:36

ed came out and people were like, oh my god,

54:39

this is a breath of fresh air on popular radio.

54:41

It's it's just a you know, guy

54:43

with a guitar and all that kind of stuff.

54:45

And I think that's what rose him to fame, is

54:47

that he had that kind of stuff

54:50

that was cyclical like it.

54:52

It wasn't in the fold anymore,

54:54

right, It wasn't a part of

54:57

popular music right then. And

54:59

do I think like part of it could be like, yeah,

55:01

it was influenced by older music absolutely.

55:04

There's actually a quote in here that says his producers

55:06

called this song his van Morrison song,

55:10

right, like yeah, and

55:12

so like I think there is merit

55:14

to going oh yeah, they're

55:17

going to be influenced by it. But you don't

55:19

own a chord progression. You don't own everything

55:22

that is Ed Sheeran in that song, he

55:24

didn't cover your song. He made a completely

55:26

new song that happens to be in the same key,

55:29

you know what I mean. So that's what I'm

55:31

saying is like I think innately music

55:33

is very cyclical, and the

55:35

more it's not a problem with

55:38

music. I will say that, and

55:40

I personally believe that. And we

55:43

did a poll which Joe, I love

55:45

to know your information about this, but I'm personally

55:48

I don't believe so because in general

55:50

this popular music copy too much from

55:52

past music. And sixty four percent

55:54

of you said no, and thirty six percent

55:57

of you said yes, which I

55:59

am more in the camp of no. You know, it

56:02

is there is there is a couple of things

56:05

that drive new sound and new

56:07

technology is one. You know, we're seeing that with

56:09

AI and all that kind of stuff. We're seeing

56:11

that with just stylistic tastes that come

56:13

up. But also there is a cyclical nature

56:15

to music where it just comes back through the fold.

56:19

And I don't think artists

56:22

should be punished for that, because how

56:24

do you learn a craft without watching other

56:26

craftsmen, without trying to be

56:29

another Bicasso.

56:30

Well, and everybody's influenced

56:33

at the end of the day, everybody's been influenced

56:35

by another artist. There's literally, I

56:37

mean there's millennia of artists

56:39

that have come and died

56:42

and have made amazing work that we still

56:46

somewhat recreate to this day. And

56:50

I mean, like, look at how many fucking

56:52

TV shows and movies rip off

56:55

Shakespeare, right, But everybody's

56:57

like, oh, if you do that, then it's fine. Yeah,

57:00

like that means you're deep. But it's like, no,

57:02

you're just ripping off Shakespeare. Yeah.

57:04

And at the end of the day, it's like it's it's

57:07

like weird, how cut

57:09

and dry the legal system is with songs sometimes,

57:12

you know what I mean. We can all like that's a great

57:14

example. It's like we can all look at the movie that's

57:16

almost the exact same plot, but we don't

57:18

see all these lawsuits. That's like, hey, this

57:20

is a Sleepless in Seattle basically again

57:23

we're suing you. Now, Yeah,

57:25

this is Dances with Wolves again, all right? Go after

57:28

James Cameron an avatar, you know what I mean, Like

57:30

we don't see that in other art

57:32

stuff. So it's weird that like songs

57:34

are policed to a different level than

57:36

everything else. But

57:40

I I you know, I think.

57:42

You know, to be honest, one, I think the reason that

57:44

is is because lawsuits

57:48

and people suing for it have gotten away

57:50

with it so so much more in the music

57:52

space, yeah, than in a visual

57:54

space. I think,

57:56

like with visual medium you have more information

57:59

to base off of, and so like

58:01

a lot more people have to,

58:03

like to be honest, when you're watching a TV show

58:05

and you're like, shit, shit looks weird.

58:08

Like you don't have to be a master filmmaker

58:11

to know when something looks off. Mm

58:13

hmm, you know what I mean. And so, like

58:15

I think, like with music, when it when it comes

58:18

to the craft of music of

58:20

like writing the song, there

58:24

is a little bit of like back

58:26

end knowledge or talent that you

58:28

have to have that Like I think a lot of everyday

58:31

people struggle with visualizing,

58:33

right if that makes sense, Like how to write

58:35

a song, Like this is the way

58:37

you know, these are the differences. I yeah,

58:40

And it's kind of just like this is a good song,

58:43

right exactly, and that's completely fine. I

58:45

mean, like at the same time that like maybe

58:47

I get a piece of furniture by some craftsman

58:50

and then another person tries to copy it, and

58:52

then I show it to the first craftsman and they go, ah,

58:54

this isn't even the freaking same you say, these

58:56

planner joints not even close, you know what I

58:59

mean. I'd be like, what are you telling talking about?

59:00

You know what I mean? Like, but to them, they

59:02

can see that kind of stuff, and I think you're

59:04

completely right, especially with the family angle.

59:07

I think there is some times going oh yeah,

59:09

for sure, and then a musicologist gets

59:11

to have his own check, being like, oh yeah, they're similar.

59:13

Let me point it out. It'll be like thirty thousand

59:16

dollars for me to point it out, but I'll do it,

59:18

you know what I mean. If

59:20

you win, I don't care. I still get a check in the end.

59:23

But at the end of the day, I think or

59:27

credit is the other thing. I think, Yeah,

59:29

it's it's a fight that's

59:31

going to keep going on, and not

59:34

to be a red not to like I hate red

59:36

herring arguments, being like what about this,

59:39

But like, also I

59:41

have listened to songs that are five

59:43

times more you know that. I go,

59:45

oh, I've turned to Joe in a

59:47

car and been like, they're gonna get sued

59:49

for this, you know what I mean, And

59:52

they don't get sue.

59:54

It's crazy. But it's also because

59:57

I think a lot of people are like, what's

1:00:00

the harm?

1:00:01

Right? And I think there's a respect to that culture

1:00:03

of this is influence or this is a

1:00:06

kind of a you know, maybe an

1:00:09

encore or a tribute

1:00:11

to what we're influenced by, right, And

1:00:13

I think there is aligned with that. But I

1:00:16

still think and I don't think we ever will

1:00:18

get there. But I especially think in the amount

1:00:21

of data and stuff that we have now in the Internet

1:00:23

age, we have no idea how

1:00:25

to make that determination. Yet it

1:00:27

is just all whatever, you know, whatever.

1:00:31

The judge that's there and the court that's there

1:00:33

figures it out, and that's what's scary, and determines

1:00:35

precedent, and that's what's the job of

1:00:37

the court to uphold. Is go well,

1:00:40

in this one case, this could have giant

1:00:43

legal ramifications beyond this one

1:00:45

thing. I could not imagine if he lost,

1:00:47

what would happen, you know what I mean? Because

1:00:50

again, and I will literally and

1:00:52

mention this until I die on the show. Is

1:00:55

the Marvin Gaye board Lines case is one of the

1:00:57

most important copyright cases in

1:00:59

the history of music copy right and

1:01:03

it's it all comes o again. I

1:01:05

don't think we would even have this lawsuit without

1:01:07

that case, and that's how it all builds up together.

1:01:15

Well, have you been

1:01:17

listening to Marvin Gaye this week?

1:01:19

I actually did listen to What's going On, like the

1:01:21

whole album funny enough. At work. I

1:01:23

was like, right, I was

1:01:25

writing this down and I was like, fa the

1:01:27

Father and you know,

1:01:30

just going through all that. But yeah,

1:01:32

I was listening to that was pretty good. What

1:01:34

about what about You?

1:01:37

I've been listening. Girl House

1:01:39

came out with a new EP. It's

1:01:41

called the Fourth EP. It is so masterfully

1:01:45

done. It's such

1:01:47

a it's such a great piece

1:01:49

of work. Definitely recommend

1:01:51

checking it out. They they're based

1:01:53

in Nashville, actually, but I think perhaps

1:01:57

might be really relocating. I'm not sure, but Nashville

1:02:00

act. It's amazing. And

1:02:03

then in May three came out with new

1:02:05

stuff which is crazy.

1:02:08

Uh new track Amnesia, It's

1:02:11

pretty cool. Recommend

1:02:14

checking it out.

1:02:14

I had I was gonna tell you. I

1:02:16

Uh, I was listening to there's

1:02:19

a new song that I think you would like because I know

1:02:21

your interests, and

1:02:23

it is called It's by Wolfman,

1:02:26

which is.

1:02:29

Jack Volfpek's cousin.

1:02:30

Yeah literally literally not even dragging,

1:02:33

but no, it's a Jack from Wolfpec.

1:02:35

Like that's his like solo project is Wolfman,

1:02:38

which I like because Wolfpec's kind of been

1:02:40

like on this like hiatus, like somebody

1:02:42

put it so eloquently. At work, they

1:02:44

went, yeah, Wulfpeck just like randomly

1:02:47

like now, just like joins together,

1:02:49

sells out Madison Square Garden and then they leave

1:02:52

and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what they do.

1:02:54

It's it's really weird, but that's kind of awesome.

1:02:56

I think they're gonna be like one of those

1:02:58

bands that it's

1:03:01

like they're so famous but they're

1:03:03

not.

1:03:04

You know what, you know what, you know what. It reminds me. I

1:03:07

was thinking about this day.

1:03:09

The band Boston.

1:03:10

Boston is actually a good example, but

1:03:13

they're they were more mainstream. I almost

1:03:15

want to say Oingo Boingo because

1:03:19

people know about Oingo Boingo people

1:03:22

in Chicago.

1:03:23

Yeah, but likes

1:03:26

pretty massive.

1:03:27

Chicago big hits. I mean like so

1:03:29

I don't know, you know America.

1:03:31

That's the one.

1:03:32

Wolfman, which is like Jack,

1:03:34

who's Jack Stratton, who's like the leader of it. Has

1:03:36

this new song I really like. It's called I Can't Party.

1:03:40

Yeah, and uh it's

1:03:43

like everyone's putting it in, like the

1:03:45

fans commenting on it put it in

1:03:47

the best way. It is like Cake, like

1:03:49

the band Cake, but it's like modern

1:03:52

Cake, which I thought was really interesting.

1:03:54

It's like a funkier Cake because it's very

1:03:56

monologue esc you know, and

1:03:58

it's just got like a bunch of humor

1:04:00

jokes in it the entire time that you know,

1:04:02

dark, like that kind of dry humor where

1:04:05

they just leave the joke under the table and it's

1:04:07

just long pauses after saying a joke.

1:04:09

But uh, good quick, yeah, go listen

1:04:11

to it the YouTube video before. It's really

1:04:13

good. It's so simplistic that it's

1:04:15

like great, you know what I mean, And I

1:04:19

really like it. I'm very excited to see

1:04:21

if Wulfeck will actually make some more stuff here

1:04:23

in a second.

1:04:24

So and I'm gonna listen to Cake

1:04:27

right now.

1:04:28

Dude, we have a fight at work at Cake,

1:04:32

but.

1:04:33

With Cake, you got it?

1:04:35

No, no, no, so like they hate

1:04:38

cake at work, Like here's

1:04:41

like some detractors, and then I got one

1:04:43

guy likes cake, So I'll just put on cake

1:04:46

and I'll just watched them all goo god damn it.

1:04:48

And then the funniest one and then the

1:04:50

one guy going yeah. And then the funniest

1:04:52

one is there's one person that doesn't know

1:04:54

anything about cake, and so I'll play it and

1:04:56

I'll play like the weird covers they do, like if

1:04:58

you want a good example, look up

1:05:00

I will survive. Yeah, I look

1:05:03

up, I will survive by cake. And I remember

1:05:05

they looked at me and they go, like

1:05:08

the puzzling look on their face, brow cross,

1:05:10

all this stuff, and they just look at me as the song starts

1:05:12

playing, and they just go,

1:05:15

I don't like this. Thanks

1:05:18

for listening to the Busy tape You're All Things music, because it's

1:05:20

a media podcast. We sure do appreciate

1:05:22

you out there. If you want to go one step

1:05:24

further for us, who really helps out the show follow

1:05:26

us at the biz tape pretty much everywhere.

1:05:28

That's probably the best way of support the show as well sharing

1:05:30

it to a friend, you know, if

1:05:33

you give it to one friend and then give it to another

1:05:35

friend, and he gives it to two friends. We'll have like, what is

1:05:37

that like seven million people right there. Anyways,

1:05:40

guys, we appreciate you, Thank

1:05:42

you so much for listening, and we hope to see

1:05:44

you next time.