0:01

For the first time, a chart number

0:03

one that's actually out of nowhere,

0:06

and b am, I going for profit. You're

0:10

listening to the biz tape. Well,

0:23

IM's the biz tape. You're All Thinks Music business and

0:25

media podcast. I'm your host Colin McKay with

0:27

my host Coast to Coast Joseph

0:29

Wazowski with more music business

0:32

news for y'all this week, and

0:34

we have a doozy for two things. First

0:37

off, Joe, how are we

0:39

first with this hurricane? Since I know you

0:41

are a coast.

0:42

Oh yeah, Me and Hillary we're

0:44

tight. We really talked to Bill

0:46

is that you We had a good What's

0:50

so funny is like every

0:53

single thing was like, oh my god, Hillary's like

0:55

gonna destroy Los Angeles, and then

0:57

it kind of did, but kind of didn't. At

1:00

the same time. It was like very

1:02

patchy like where damage was like hitting

1:07

in the city, but like for the most part,

1:10

it was just heavy rain that

1:13

we were able to deal with. It was like a tropical storm

1:15

by the time it came through, so

1:17

it was chilling. We were chilling. We have

1:19

like some palm branches in the road and

1:23

we have way too many sand bags that we bought

1:27

for flooding purposes that never happened. But

1:30

that's a good thing at the end of the day.

1:33

Man.

1:33

What's really funny is when I was I was at

1:35

home depot. I'm

1:38

a Low's person personally, but the

1:40

closest one was was home depot.

1:42

Okay, And well, you're really

1:44

got to start off, really.

1:46

I'm really I'm really going there. I

1:49

will say it's getting political here

1:52

on the bis Day podcast. But

1:55

I was looking

1:57

for sand and sand bags, as

1:59

you do during a crisis,

2:02

and I couldn't

2:04

find any sand. I was like, I finally

2:07

went out to the gardening area where they kind

2:09

of had the sand. They had some sand,

2:11

but it wasn't like the sand I needed, right,

2:14

But it did the job, you

2:16

know, and so I grabbed that shit. I'm

2:19

going to the cash register, and this

2:22

lady, like everyone else, is like frantically

2:24

trying to find sand in sandbags

2:26

and like battening down the hatches

2:29

and like getting stuff together. And this

2:31

lady is so concerned

2:33

with what kind of soil she

2:35

should put in her front yard. Four

2:38

flowers and

2:41

it's the California. It

2:43

was the most California moment of like this lady

2:46

was on a mission. She was not

2:48

going to let Hurricane Hillary stop

2:50

her from making sure that

2:53

her flowers were pristine this

2:55

season. And I can I

2:58

can relate, you know, I

3:00

can relate to that.

3:01

Okay, Jesus.

3:02

She was also in sweatpants, and she was like,

3:04

she didn't give a fuck she

3:07

was. She was in sweatpants. She was in like a it

3:09

was kind of like nicer sweatpants. It was like

3:12

like semi workout, semi pajama

3:14

vibe. But she was on

3:16

a mission.

3:17

Yeah, just to get the

3:20

very water absorbent soil. I'm I'm

3:23

assuming, you know, for her plants.

3:25

God dude, well glad you're all

3:28

right. Last time I stayed there, the house was leaking.

3:30

So that's why I was thinking about. And we didn't get to talk

3:32

to really before this, so it's just making sure. Anyway,

3:36

I guess let's just jump right back into it.

3:39

Uh, what's look at the news today?

3:41

You know, that's where I feel like some giant title card

3:43

should come in, like the e news thing I've joked

3:45

about for three years. Anyway,

3:49

we're gonna talk about the new number one

3:52

on the Billboard Hot one hundred charge that

3:54

literally has come out of nowhere. I

3:57

also broke this story to Joe

4:00

and he was like, really, this is number

4:02

one right now, and I went, really, this is number

4:04

one right now. So I thought we would just jump

4:06

into this and kind of dissect this weird

4:09

chart outwire we're seeing,

4:11

which is I'm sure you've

4:13

probably seen this guy's face everywhere for

4:15

some reason I have as well. His name

4:18

is Oliver Anthony and his song Richmond

4:20

North of Richmond ha

4:22

Play on Words is number

4:25

one on the Billboard Hot one hundred chart. You

4:27

may have seen these videos around TikTok

4:30

or YouTube, and it's basically him with like

4:32

a big you know, he's

4:34

playing the guitar in the forest with

4:36

a microphone. He's got red hair, redbeard,

4:39

and everything very distinct looks, so he's hard

4:41

to miss. But he is number one on the Billboard

4:43

chart and it's kind of out of

4:46

nowhere and unexpected

4:48

for him, his management, everybody around.

4:50

So let's just dissect it again. Oliver

4:52

Anthony is this artist name, which

4:54

is not his real name, by the way. Apparently that's in honor

4:57

of his grandfather, which I thought was kind

4:59

of sweet. His song Richmond

5:02

North of Richmond has exploded to number

5:04

one. Like I said, Prior to this week,

5:06

Oliver Anthony has not appeared

5:09

on any Billboard chart in any form,

5:11

making him the first such

5:13

artist ever to debut on

5:16

top of the Hot one hundred.

5:18

Wow, it's a pretty crazy debut.

5:21

That's a crazy debut. Like I

5:23

think people in movies, you know, like

5:25

say this all the time, where they're like, you're number one

5:27

and you just put out one song and that does not happen.

5:31

Like important to note still this chart

5:33

has been tracking. The Billboard chart

5:35

started really officially tracking in nineteen

5:37

ninety one, so it's not like through

5:40

all time, you know, but the

5:42

explosive goat growth we're seeing here

5:44

hasn't really been seen in it's thirty two

5:46

years, so unheard of that,

5:49

which is the first thing that caught my attention because

5:51

I didn't know anything about this guy, and many people

5:53

did not. If

5:55

you haven't listened to the song, this track is

5:57

by the quote farm

6:00

Bill. I can't believe. I

6:02

just realized that it's called that. Farmville, Virginia

6:04

based singer, songwriter and former

6:07

factory worker born

6:09

Christopher Anthony Lunsford, who

6:11

again his stage name is Oliver

6:13

Anthony, honoring his grandfather who

6:15

first drew buzz online, including on

6:18

TikTok, where he boasts one point five million

6:20

followers, and prior

6:22

to his August eleventh posting on

6:24

the Radio WV West

6:26

Virginia YouTube account, which spotlights

6:29

unsigned Americana and country acts

6:31

in the Virginia slash West Virginia

6:34

region, this guy

6:36

was just kind of had a big TikTok.

6:38

That was it.

6:40

The Radio WV recording

6:43

is basically just him and a guitar.

6:46

There's nothing more simple than that,

6:48

right, Like it's not I

6:50

mean, it's very well mixed and everything,

6:52

but you know, Joe, you would agree it's pretty

6:54

authentic sounding, you know what I mean. It doesn't

6:57

sound.

6:57

Edited or it's pretty bare bones.

7:00

Right, which is a you know, unorthodox

7:03

in this day and age.

7:04

Through some of that reverb in there, that.

7:06

Reverb is insane. But

7:10

if you want to see this reverb yourself. The video

7:12

on the YouTube account, like I was saying, Radio

7:14

WV, which really made this video just

7:17

go everywhere and this song to get

7:19

streams everywhere, has thirty

7:21

million views now thirty

7:24

million, and it was posted, you know, last

7:26

week. So this guy is just

7:29

literally you know, if you're saying

7:31

like a star is born, this is a star is

7:33

born, like this guy has come out of nowhere.

7:37

The song, I will say, has drawn

7:39

criticism for its lyrics,

7:42

and sadly in country

7:44

world that we live in, it's

7:48

you know, offensive to

7:51

some and also at the same time, it's

7:53

sad to say, seems very tame in the world

7:55

of country music, especially

7:58

with the likes of what we talked too on the show, which is

8:00

Jason Aldane's Try That in the Small Town, in

8:03

Morgan Wallen's career in general. So

8:05

here are the lyrics that people were kind

8:08

of going at. This song is like a working man's

8:10

song, talking about working overtime, trying

8:12

your best, you know, and you just can't get anywhere

8:14

and all that stuff. And the part that got some people

8:17

upset was quote your dollar

8:19

tax to no end because of rich men

8:21

north of rich men as well

8:24

as the obese milking welfare.

8:26

So like it's

8:28

not you know, like I was talking to Joe, I

8:30

was like, it's not really the best, but like it's

8:32

kind of sad to say that that's like not that

8:35

controversial now even though it

8:37

is, you know what I mean, just because of

8:40

like the standard that's been set

8:42

by especially number one country songs.

8:45

Either way. I need to mention

8:47

this because the song has grown to have significant

8:50

amount of detractors specifically for

8:52

that music. Like there's literally YouTube videos

8:54

you can go watch where it's like, is this you

8:57

know, is this song like cancelable?

8:59

Is this a bad song because of these

9:02

lyrics? Right? And

9:04

we can get to that in a minute. So other

9:06

than that, like whatever you think about the song,

9:09

here's how it's doing. On the Charge Richmond North

9:11

of Richmond has drawn seventeen point

9:13

five million streams and sold one

9:16

hundred and forty seven thousand downloads

9:19

in the tracking week ending August

9:21

seventeenth, according to Luminate. Not

9:24

being promoted to radio, this song also

9:26

tallied five hundred and fifty three

9:29

thousand radio airplay audience

9:31

impressions the bulk on country radio

9:33

station, which is, you know, pretty crazy

9:35

for radio. I mean, Joe, you know, you came

9:38

up in radio a little bit with everything, and

9:40

like not to have any formal promotion

9:42

and all these people just play this song is

9:46

very I mean, it's.

9:47

So unorthodox for sure.

9:49

I'm wondering if he even has this

9:52

shit registered with like BMI or

9:55

like, you know, because like if

9:57

he doesn't getting that getting

10:00

his royalties is going to be a

10:02

nightmare.

10:03

I mean, this is like catchup. This guy is

10:05

going to be doing catch up the entire time,

10:07

you know what I mean. And I'm gonna get to later kind

10:10

of where he's got,

10:12

you know, obviously, like you're saying, he's got a

10:14

lot to deal with, all up front, all

10:16

these offers, all this stuff. By

10:19

the way, I saw one that's pretty upsustantiated.

10:22

But apparently according he was given some eight

10:24

million dollar offer and I was like, okay,

10:27

sure, yeah.

10:27

He was claiming. He was claiming that

10:30

he was getting an eight million eight and

10:32

he was flexing that he said no to

10:35

me, means he was not.

10:38

I you know, it's unsubstantiated.

10:41

It's fine. It just seemed

10:44

very out of nowhere from his comments. But another

10:46

comment that he gave specifically to Billboard about

10:48

the situation and the song is quote,

10:50

the hopelessness and frustration of our times

10:53

resonate in the response to this

10:55

song. The song itself is not anything

10:57

special, but the people have supported

10:59

it are incredible and deserved to be

11:02

heard, which gives me the like the

11:04

most first sentence was a little bit

11:06

too braggy. Second sentence, let's bring

11:08

it back like, that's

11:10

what that feels like when I read that sentence. But are

11:12

those two sentences while

11:15

at the same time his and these

11:17

titles If you want to know, like how really

11:20

independent this guy is, Like I can tell you he's

11:22

independent all this kind of stuff which you'll get to

11:24

later, but if you really want

11:26

to know, it all comes down to how many

11:29

titles one manager has, which

11:31

is his co manager, producer of

11:33

the song, and co owner of the organization,

11:36

and it has this video on their YouTube page.

11:38

Draven Rife stated quote

11:41

there was not a whole lot of planning involved,

11:43

and that they had some small promotion from small

11:45

outlets and Oliver's notably large fan

11:47

based on TikTok, but it was largely

11:50

mouthed to mouth promotion kind of hinting

11:52

about like what Joe and I are saying, like they did not

11:54

they you know, this wasn't like secretly.

11:56

So he already had a

11:58

large following on TikTok.

12:00

This man had a large following on TikTok,

12:02

which I wanted to get into. This guy had

12:04

over one point five million followers

12:06

on TikTok.

12:07

Oh, yeah, then there's no no shit. It's

12:09

like taking off. I mean it

12:12

was like if it was like, oh,

12:14

yeah, he uploaded this video and didn't

12:16

have any other views and

12:18

it was like okay,

12:21

like here we go, this is my first

12:23

video, right, and it was like thirty million views.

12:25

That would be insane,

12:27

And I agree with honest, it's

12:29

a lot less impressive when it's like he's

12:32

obviously built up an audience.

12:34

At the same time, like, and I'll give

12:36

you that, I do believe that as well. It's like

12:39

I think a lot of people are like, wow, this is

12:41

just some homegrown guy and I was like, yeah, it

12:43

is. But he also has, rightfully,

12:46

so you know, in his own way, established

12:49

this large TikTok presence, which is powerful,

12:52

you know what I mean if you have one point five million followers,

12:55

So like it's not nothing,

12:57

right, Like I think a lot of this around

13:00

this artist Oliver Anthony is kind

13:03

of like, oh well, he's just like

13:05

back in the woods somewhere and

13:07

he nobody's ever seen him. And it's like, no, it's

13:09

got one point five million TikTok followers, which

13:12

doesn't make this not impressive by

13:14

the way that he's gone to number one after

13:16

literally having no charting at all

13:19

or anything, right, But it's still

13:21

it's a notable task in

13:23

the story.

13:24

Yeah, it's a it kind of it kind

13:26

of pegs it down a bit.

13:28

Right, and like it

13:31

seems to me and from like

13:33

the what I just said about the small promotion

13:36

from small outlets and Oliver's notably

13:38

large fan based on TikTok is not a quote

13:40

like I'm saying that. Like he

13:42

the Draven Wriif has said, like he

13:44

did some small promotion with some you know, insert

13:48

country and then also some

13:50

other adjective website. Right, he

13:52

did some like kind of stuff like that where he just went

13:54

to these small little websites with newsletters.

13:57

But like and then he like slips in He's

13:59

like, also, we did some TikTok stuff

14:01

and TikTok fans and it's just like yeah, but they're

14:04

one point five million followers, which

14:06

I know is not active one point five

14:08

million, but like, if you know,

14:10

ten thousand were going crazy on this, that's

14:12

still a lot. It

14:15

also shows the power of TikTok here. I think in a lot

14:17

of ways. Anthony, though I

14:19

will say kind of maybe also

14:21

notably in his favor for being

14:24

in seeming diy is,

14:27

Anthony is notably still independent

14:29

and unsigned which is

14:31

very rare to have an unsigned artist

14:33

at number one on the Hot one hundred. The last

14:36

artist to have a number one on the

14:38

Hot one hundred was Lisa Lobe

14:41

in nineteen ninety four. So

14:44

it's been a while, you know what I mean,

14:46

which is the stay I Missed You song,

14:49

if you guys ever know that. But even her, she's

14:51

got kind of the same thing here that he does

14:54

with this TikTok thing. Lisa Lobe in nineteen ninety

14:56

four had that song released on RCA

14:58

Records, that was on the hit Reality

15:01

Bite soundtrack, and then Lope

15:03

was signed to Geffen Records after the song,

15:05

so it was like kind of like, eh.

15:07

It's kind of in between.

15:09

Yeah, it's like in

15:11

the in the words of Lisa Lowe, you say, only

15:14

hear what I want to, So

15:16

I don't know, you know. It's like she

15:19

she's got like a couple thumb

15:21

you know, tacks in this story, basically weighing

15:24

her down for the diy ankle compared

15:26

to Anthony here. Lastly, Anthony

15:29

is the sole writer on the song, which

15:31

is also very rare, and it

15:34

is notable because I mean, as Joe's I

15:36

if you guys have listened to our yearly Grammy episodes

15:38

have talked about everyone and their mother gets a songwriting

15:41

credit now and it

15:44

it would. It's still very notable

15:46

in terms of like number ones and should

15:49

be noted, But at the same time, like

15:51

it's not as big as of a streak breaking

15:53

moment because Glass Animals actually

15:56

did this last year with their song

15:58

heat Wave, which is written by their frontman

16:01

Dave Bailey. So it's not

16:03

like he's breaking like a thirty year long record

16:05

which he keeps doing over and over. But it's still

16:07

it's still very impressive. So

16:10

let's get into it, Joe, I guess first, let's

16:12

talk about TikTok. I

16:14

mean, you clearly think TikTok had

16:16

a substantial you

16:18

know, presence to his come

16:21

up, and if you will in this,

16:23

do you think that like that makes him

16:26

quote unquote less like DIY

16:28

and like kind of goes against his

16:31

grain? What do you think?

16:32

No? No, I don't think it makes some less

16:34

DIY. I mean, like, if anything, TikTok

16:37

is the most DIY. It's sure you

16:39

can get with it because it's even making it's

16:42

making artists at the top sircumb

16:45

to trends and like making their own videos

16:47

and like.

16:48

Making Drake do TikTok dances.

16:51

Yeah, and if that's not power, then what is

16:54

exactly?

16:55

You know? But I think

16:57

like the uh

17:01

yeah, I mean there's no denying

17:05

that folk music

17:07

right now, country

17:10

and folk music is

17:12

very popular. It's having a moment. I

17:16

mean. The another example

17:18

right of someone who's blowing up is

17:20

no Con who's like massive

17:23

in the alternative folk space

17:26

Americana space, And like I think that

17:28

that's like, I

17:30

don't know, It's like country music does really well on TikTok

17:33

and I think it's because like a lot of the younger country

17:35

fans are on TikTok, but

17:37

like older people tend to also still

17:40

support country radio and

17:42

buying physical CD.

17:45

I have to mention the downloads in here

17:47

are yeah, monumental in

17:50

the amount, like extreme

17:52

is huge obviously.

17:54

And that's the reason why he's number

17:56

one. It's not because of the amount of streams.

17:58

It's because of the amount of buy well.

18:01

I think the stream is astronomical. But

18:03

like as we've talked about on the show, if you haven't

18:05

heard us talk about, it's like Billboard

18:08

basically does a track equivalent, you

18:11

know, kind of I

18:13

think it's like every ten or I gotta

18:15

remember what the ratio is. Basically

18:18

x amount of streams equals one like

18:20

sale, which means that puts you higher up

18:23

the chart. But a download is just a sale,

18:25

so that like you

18:27

know, it's something like one hundred fold or tenfold

18:30

or something, so it's not I think it

18:32

might be one thousandfold.

18:34

So like it's yeah, it's something insane.

18:36

It's like every thousand wouldn't listen

18:38

to one sale.

18:40

Yeah, you wouldn't listen to a bot CD

18:42

that many times, right, But it's like they

18:45

expect because it's valued

18:47

less, which like

18:50

we could even get into the topic of like that needs

18:52

to change in general.

18:54

Yeah, I mean we've talked about it on

18:57

the show. I think the problem that

18:59

I have with and you

19:01

know, I thankfully I

19:03

live in Nashville so I can call it out all the time.

19:05

And I'm sorry if you're sick of this rant. But like people

19:08

all the time, go, I'm number one, we're number

19:10

one, and I go on the country chart all

19:13

the time. You know, like you're put you're missing important

19:15

things. And why I think that's important.

19:17

It's not because I'm a Debbie Downer. It's because

19:19

it's misleading. So

19:22

it's important to look at these charts

19:25

and understand

19:28

the way that these aggregates

19:30

of data are collected, right,

19:33

And so if you know that, I

19:36

mean, this is the whole reason that they had to take merch

19:38

bundles out of the Billboard charts. It's

19:40

because the Billboard Charts is supposed to

19:42

demonstrate consumer listening habits,

19:45

and then they found out that the people who like to

19:47

buy merch more were buying

19:49

merch more to either get their artists to

19:51

the top, or people were purposely

19:54

making packages and so they would

19:56

get you know, sales of CDs

19:59

mostly through these merch packages.

20:02

So the point is is that it wasn't very accurate

20:04

to consumer trends.

20:06

It was accurate to which artists

20:10

are willing to make merch bundles to try to

20:12

go to the top. In the same way,

20:16

I do think that the way

20:18

the downloads are and the fan

20:20

base of country music and the slowerness

20:23

to technology that country music has,

20:26

it has to be noted that these downloads

20:29

are significantly higher in these

20:31

country music spheres compared to

20:33

more modern music in terms

20:35

of like pop music or

20:38

rap or all these other kind of genres.

20:40

It's just not as prevalent to have

20:43

like some of these downloads, unless

20:46

you have like an outlier like a BTS

20:48

who purposely try to support

20:50

them as much as they can to get them on the charts.

20:53

So like it. It's very

20:56

it's really interesting

20:59

to see this, and I think you know that

21:01

we've seen all these data from Billboard that's country

21:04

music is twenty percent up, which I do believe.

21:06

But I think the other thing about it is

21:08

that it has

21:11

a chart currently that I think favors

21:14

the spending and consumer habits of the

21:16

country music fan base. Is

21:23

that a mic drop Joe. I

21:26

was about to say seamless, sorry,

21:29

but I didn't mean to put Joe in the speech anyway,

21:32

Like I'm

21:34

sure somebody thought, oh, there's already an ad in the

21:36

show. Anyway, Let's

21:40

talk about this though, Like even with country

21:42

music, this song is distinctively

21:45

sonically different than a lot of

21:48

the other country music that we've seen in the

21:50

number one as of late, like especially

21:52

a Morgan Wallen or most recently

21:55

a Jason al Dem

21:57

would try that in a small town. It is just

22:00

you know, guy guitar singing

22:04

the most reverb I've ever heard, and

22:07

that's pretty much. It so like

22:10

it is an oddity in that way, and

22:12

I think there is you know, definitely

22:15

a vocal majority that

22:17

have not had this

22:20

kind of sound in a

22:22

good package that's been very

22:24

marketable and viral, and so

22:27

I think it's really connecting with a lot of people. Would

22:29

you agree with that, Joe, especially like this

22:31

kind of sound that Oliver Anthony

22:33

has is maybe just under

22:36

represented.

22:38

Well. I think, like with anything, popular

22:41

genres tend to gravitate towards

22:44

alternative genres eventually kind

22:46

of like picking and choosing like the things that

22:48

they want to incorporate and later

22:51

kind of fads and like trends and

22:53

stuff like that. And like right now, I mean, like the biggest

22:57

alternative folk star would

22:59

be like Tyler Childers, right,

23:02

and like this guy is screaming Tyler

23:05

Childers, like to the extreme, yeah,

23:09

but just like way more conservative. Honestly,

23:13

it's like the opposite end of the spectrum. But it's

23:15

like people really

23:18

gravitate towards it because like they

23:21

like the sounds, and now it's like, oh,

23:23

it's bleeding into like the pop country

23:25

space.

23:26

I will also so like I feel like he

23:29

is kind of the opposite spectrum of that but

23:31

at the same time, like like

23:33

kind of saying with the you know, controversial

23:36

nature of these other country songs that have been

23:38

the top, that have almost been so controversial,

23:40

and that's like the point of them, you

23:42

know, is to be controversial. I feel

23:44

like this is very you

23:46

know if you agree with it or not a middle

23:49

of the road of like you know, political

23:51

spectrum in a lot of ways, like the

23:53

most crazy thing.

23:55

It's just it's just like in

23:58

it there's a lot of there's

24:00

a lot of subliminal I wouldn't say subliminal,

24:03

but like there's.

24:03

A lot of just like flashing in the video.

24:06

There's a lot of conservative talking points

24:08

that he is promoting.

24:09

Oh yeah, I mean he's talking about lowers, he's

24:12

talking about you know, the anti welfare

24:14

like you know, or just the prevalence

24:16

of welfare in you know, people that

24:18

are obese and stuff like that. I

24:21

think that it is, like you're saying,

24:23

it's very coded, is what I would say,

24:25

is probably yes.

24:26

Which is like

24:29

we it's not a secret,

24:31

we all know what they're talking about.

24:33

Well. I mean, at the same time, though, I

24:36

feel like it's way, you know, way

24:39

more towards the middle and may connect

24:41

with more people on the whole than like a Jason

24:44

Aldan try that in the small town.

24:46

You know, I don't even think it's that middle

24:48

grounded though, because like I

24:51

think.

24:51

It's just because of you going crazy

24:54

that like those other songs are in

24:56

comparison that it seems to be the middle

24:58

you see what I mean.

25:00

I guess so, But I it's

25:02

it's like I mean, yeah, it's

25:04

like it's doing what it's

25:07

It's it's pushing the

25:09

narrative of like people talking about it,

25:12

right and like so ultimately it's

25:14

doing its job on that on

25:16

that end where I feel like, you

25:19

know, it's just like it's

25:22

hitting people at like the right time

25:26

of like there's a lot of fear

25:29

and there's a lot of pressure that

25:31

people are feeling, and a lot of financial struggle

25:34

that's going on right now. Content

25:38

content, and there is a

25:40

lot of uh

25:43

not hate, but I would say, like I

25:45

would say there's a lot of like disgruntled

25:49

energy kind of aiming

25:51

at the federal

25:54

government. And I think that that is like where

25:56

this is kind of like bleeding into or just like

25:59

where it's.

25:59

Like tapping at the time, you know what I mean, Like

26:01

it's.

26:01

Just yeah, but I mean it's like very

26:04

much aimed at the federal government

26:06

welfare taxes.

26:09

Oh, it's aimed at that, but like I mean

26:11

that's.

26:11

A Richmond north of

26:13

Richmond.

26:14

Right, Yeah. And honestly, the

26:16

songs, the

26:17

songs, the song

26:19

title is probably the most damning part

26:21

of it. If it was like called anything else, it

26:23

would probably be like way less,

26:26

but he did name it that. So

26:28

it's just like, whatever you feel about the situation,

26:30

it just seems like we've just been

26:32

conditioned with country music that it's like, oh,

26:35

well, you know, this isn't as

26:37

bad, you know what I mean, like

26:40

in terms of controversialness if

26:43

you think it's controversial. So yeah,

26:45

I again, I do agree with you. I

26:47

mean, it is controversial, Like I you

26:49

know, whatever way you feel about it, it is controversial.

26:52

Like the way it's talked about it and like

26:54

literally go online in the discourse, I cannot

26:57

tell you, like there are people that

26:59

are like, ah, what is the song?

27:01

Why is he saying this? All this kind of stuff, So it's

27:04

not really a question there. But

27:06

at the same time, I think because it

27:08

hits more towards

27:11

the middle compared to a lot of stuff, and it's

27:13

going to some other you

27:15

know, groups that maybe do not feel represented

27:18

as much by I tried that in a small town Jason

27:20

Aldan or a Morganwall and party boy

27:22

like kind of country music that I think it's

27:24

hitting a vein there. I

27:26

also think like it's

27:29

it's indicative of, to

27:31

be honest, the spectrum of country, which I

27:34

do like to see more. You know, it

27:36

felt very we had Morganwah,

27:38

and we had Jason Alden, and then like

27:40

we kind of had in

27:43

the different side was maybe like Luke Combs

27:45

like completely like just felt

27:47

like not in the same way. But he's just

27:49

doing a cover, you know, and that has

27:52

been the summer of country music this summer

27:54

basically, and so it's nice

27:56

to see, like, like I was saying,

27:59

a one rider just

28:01

playing a guitar kind of song, because that that

28:03

that is country music at the end of the day. I

28:05

mean that that's what it is. I do think it's

28:07

funny because it's just like I'm sure

28:09

there's people that I could talk to that I know

28:12

that would be like that are country music fans that would

28:14

go, this is not country music, this

28:16

is Americana, And I'm like, hmmm, you

28:19

know, like pig your difference, but it's

28:22

definitely indicative of the spectrum

28:24

of country and I do think there is

28:27

a considerable market that feels

28:30

not engaged by a lot of

28:32

these other country hits, if

28:34

that makes sense. And

28:36

I think this is a sign of it, because literally

28:38

this guy had no charting,

28:41

no anything, and people just latched

28:44

onto this song, you know what I mean. You

28:46

can say what you want about how controversial

28:49

Morgan Wallen is and how controversial

28:51

like Jason Alden is, but it like they were

28:53

at least names. This guy doesn't even

28:55

have a name, you know what I mean. So this guy was

28:57

well latched on it.

28:59

Like it. It is the same type

29:01

of situation, right of like funneling

29:05

into that conservative like kind

29:08

of political pipeline

29:11

of like, oh, we're gonna support this person because

29:13

it's promoting this message that

29:16

I do agree.

29:17

I think it's hard not to not to say that point.

29:19

I mean, like it's just

29:21

the you know, it does have a political

29:23

but backing and vibe, so or there are

29:25

people that are going to support it because

29:27

of the political message, you know what I mean, no matter

29:30

what, and uh, it's more

29:32

about making that political message literally

29:35

heard in this case. But

29:38

I mean, like I hate. I hate to say

29:40

it, but literally I'm like, I'm just thankful that it's

29:42

not you know, eight

29:45

hundred percent of the lyrics or that you

29:47

know what I mean, like it's like one hundred

29:49

percent or just because we've been conditioned

29:52

by country music.

29:54

I mean, there is a there is a there

29:57

is something to it of like people like

30:00

are very are struggling, like throughout

30:03

everywhere, and so there there's

30:06

that is a topic that

30:08

is very much I think important

30:10

to everyday people. And

30:13

I also too think like folk

30:16

music and country music in general tends

30:18

to pull down

30:20

people's guards because it's so like, I

30:23

don't know, it just seems more genuine of

30:25

a genre than like perhaps

30:28

like ultrapop or something like that,

30:30

you know, like where it's like something so

30:32

produced out and like very

30:35

heavy production. But

30:37

then this is just a dude in a guitar, and

30:40

like that's country music in general.

30:42

This is the most part I.

30:43

Know, unless you're in unless you're

30:45

in country radio, in which you got

30:49

everything, you got every auto tune

30:51

on well and I Reached has

30:53

auto tune, but guitar has auto tune.

30:56

If you want the opposite of it, I go. This

30:59

is their broad Way but

31:02

like, let me explain, so, like

31:04

in the same way that I feel like a Broadway

31:06

musician, you know, like talk about

31:09

like Wicked where I want to be popular

31:12

all that kind of stuff, where it's just the piano and

31:14

just her and it just moves you. I was like, this is the exact

31:16

opposite, but also the same where

31:19

it's like it just grabs you because

31:21

of how raw it is, and depending

31:23

on who you are as a person, it grabs you more

31:25

or less. And that's why

31:27

I'm like, this is their.

31:28

Broad well, but I also think

31:30

too, like TikTok has is kind of shifting

31:33

people's tastes

31:35

of music, because what do you do

31:37

on TikTok? A lot of the times it's not a fully

31:40

produced out situation.

31:42

There's only so many people that can fit into

31:44

that frame. Yeah right. How

31:47

many bands have you seen Colin that are

31:49

just killing it on TikTok?

31:51

Yeah right, yeah, no exactly.

31:55

You know why. It's because people can't fit

31:57

in the fucking frame. Nobody

32:00

can see anything, and so it's like

32:03

having these like solo artists

32:07

being able to have it

32:09

like multiple stripped down acoustic

32:12

performances that they can post to TikTok

32:16

is really important, not only from

32:18

like a business standpoint, but also from

32:20

a tastemaker standpoint, because if

32:22

people are if

32:25

the main thing that people are consuming

32:27

is TikTok, it's

32:29

gonna shift the way that people

32:32

view music in the things that they want

32:34

to hear. Right, I mean, how many times,

32:36

golin have you like walked into

32:38

a restaurant and it's like a TikTok song that's

32:41

like blowing up, that's being

32:43

blasted, but it's like eighty years old, and

32:45

it's you know, and it's like, why is this

32:47

song being played in this coffee shop

32:49

right now? Right and like twenty

32:52

twenty three? Oh yeah, it's because nothing nothing

32:54

makes sense anymore, that's why.

32:57

Yeah, I mean, I agree, I think there's

32:59

just a spectrum that's

33:01

you know, going on TikTok. But it seems

33:04

to me that it's been a

33:06

lot for a bastion of

33:09

these very stripped down, very

33:11

solo like performances

33:15

that like kind of didn't have a place for like

33:17

ten years, you know what I mean. Like

33:19

if you went to like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen,

33:21

you'd be like, ugh, a guy with a guitar.

33:25

It was all about like, you know, fucking

33:27

like a pit Bull remix. Basically was like the gold

33:30

standard. That's what everybody wanted to see.

33:32

It was like it was just this huge electronic

33:35

revolution. And I feel like now we're in this kind of

33:37

vice versa where people are like, let's

33:39

strip it down now because TikTok's like

33:41

a video world into

33:44

like the real world, and it's like

33:46

a very heavily produced solo guy

33:48

a real world. But you know, it

33:51

is what it is. I think this is

33:53

a very notable chart

33:55

upset. I will say, I mean it

33:58

it's definitely literally

34:00

out of nowhere. Like everybody likes to say

34:02

this song was out of nowhere. No, this

34:04

is out of nowhere right, Like there

34:07

is nothing more out of nowhere than this, in

34:09

my opinion that's been on the charts,

34:12

like it was just a random guy of a random

34:14

YouTube video, right. I mean the TikTok

34:16

following, Yeah, it's big,

34:20

but it's like you're

34:22

not number one on the chart big, you know what I mean.

34:24

Like we've had big TikTok songs on here

34:26

where it's like they have five million followers,

34:28

they're not number one on Billboard two hundred, right,

34:31

So I think

34:34

it's I think it's indicative of

34:36

just the kind of country

34:40

explosion that we're dealing with with streaming

34:42

and charts. And then also I just think

34:44

that the consumer base

34:46

of country music has the right

34:49

qualities to manipulate

34:51

the chart in a way that

34:54

is unseen in many genres.

34:57

Like literally the only one I can give a parable too

34:59

is probably Beats. Yes, like

35:01

where bts All the fans will be like, we want

35:03

to buy all these songs on

35:06

iTunes, and so they're number one.

35:09

So I don't know, man, it's

35:11

interesting. I'm glad in

35:14

some ways to see an upset of the

35:16

same like three names we've seen

35:18

for six months, But at the same time, it's like,

35:22

you know, it's a different code of paint to

35:25

a lot of the same messages. So it

35:27

is it is, Yeah, it is.

35:29

I mean it's crazy even

35:32

even on that route, right, like thinking

35:36

of like who's

35:38

gonna be the next famous person,

35:41

because we're due for like kind of another resurgence

35:43

of like new talent that's

35:47

gonna flood into top

35:49

forty, And it's

35:52

something to keep your like keep in

35:54

mind of, like who are some people

35:56

that are like kind of like bubbling to the surface right

35:58

now that will and will be

36:00

breakthrough and be the next Billie

36:02

Eilish, be the next Jason

36:05

isbill be the next next whoever?

36:08

Yeah, that's probably the craziest part about

36:10

this story. If you take away even just the country,

36:12

it's like one one person that one

36:15

million followers on TikTok, which it's

36:17

probably like hundreds of those now you know,

36:20

just came through and just was number one and

36:22

not seen on the charts existence ever. Which,

36:26

Yeah, it's.

36:27

I do wonder. I do wonder

36:30

because like there's kind

36:32

of there's a catch twenty two with TikTok,

36:34

which is like you're gonna have something

36:36

really explode on TikTok, but then

36:39

it falls into the this could

36:41

be a one hit wonder territory yep,

36:45

And that's where it's very difficult

36:47

to break out of that and

36:49

actually make like something

36:51

into a career out of

36:54

it. I think, like, to be honest,

36:56

with this song, he's kind of managed

36:58

to make more like I feel like

37:01

this would actually be more of a career

37:03

move for sure, just because the

37:05

song is actually like it's not a TikTok

37:07

song, you know what I mean, Like it's like it's

37:11

a song that's like this.

37:15

The song, the full song on YouTube

37:17

has done so well. Right, Like, it's not that's

37:20

what all the people TikTok,

37:23

right, It's that people actually

37:25

went, you know where people are like, you should

37:27

go check out my song right now, and you're like you're gonna check

37:30

it out, and in your brain you're like, yeah, I'm gonna

37:32

click that link, and you don't do it. Everybody

37:34

did it with this song, Like everybody went to

37:36

the YouTube video and watched this song that was

37:38

like semi interested in the song. So

37:41

there there is actually sorry.

37:43

Go ahead, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but

37:45

this sparked thought in my head.

37:47

But I actually saw is a very

37:49

helpful video. It was like about

37:51

this guy who's like in charge of this other

37:54

account's videos where

37:56

it was like it was this man and you've

37:58

probably seen him on TikTok. He's like very big.

38:01

He like has this like archive

38:04

of very expensive old books,

38:07

right okay, and he like restores books.

38:09

That's like his business. But he

38:12

doesn't tell people what

38:14

his business is. He just posts

38:17

to TikTok and explains each

38:19

book that he likes and why

38:22

it's important. And they explode

38:25

on the on the format and the reason

38:28

that they were arguing it explodes

38:31

is because you're giving people,

38:34

You're you're giving something away to people.

38:36

You're like, you're doing a service

38:38

to people. You're either educating,

38:41

you're either entertaining. You're doing

38:43

something so that that person

38:45

can take it right, take it

38:47

in and digest it and consume

38:50

it. Whereas a

38:52

lot of artists, and I

38:54

would say, like I would say,

38:56

the majority of artists, I'm just going to say

38:58

it on TikTok really struggle

39:00

with that notion because all of

39:03

the things that they are posting are

39:05

promos to get

39:08

people to click on something else to

39:12

somewhere else.

39:13

Can we go on that tangent right now?

39:15

What the hell has happened to the algorithm

39:17

in the last like three months? Why am I getting

39:20

so many like hey, you should buy this

39:22

thing lately?

39:23

Yeah? Well, I think like I

39:26

think TikTok's figuring out a way to

39:28

do ad sense, right Like, I think

39:30

like that's that's very much happening

39:32

right now. I'd actually say like TikTok has really

39:35

been from for my personal experience.

39:38

I'm very close to deleting it because I hate

39:42

it so much right now and

39:44

I just kind of need a reset. I feel

39:46

like, but I would say

39:48

that for the majority of people. I think a lot of

39:50

people right now are kind of not into

39:52

TikTok because like you're seeing the same five

39:56

people on your feed. Yeah,

39:58

there's no like before there

40:00

was like discovery. Yeah,

40:02

there was like discovery and like new

40:04

people and like new things happening,

40:07

and like now it's all about,

40:09

Oh, we're all doing the same thing, the same

40:11

trend, the same whatever. We're gonna

40:13

hear the Planet of the Bass video

40:15

eighty thousand times your

40:19

eyes out, and

40:21

like the Jonas Brothers will then

40:24

take them on tour and then weird.

40:26

But I mean,

40:28

I thought it was an amazing move, but I'm

40:31

also like it's

40:33

kind of it's kind of old now, right He's

40:37

still do we still care?

40:39

I mean, to be honest, if I was Kyle Gordon,

40:41

the guy made that song, I would be milking he

40:43

is a genius.

40:44

I would be milk literally a genius.

40:47

And that's kind of the funny thing about that whole thing

40:49

is like they would also milk that to the

40:51

grave, like people who made

40:53

that music, like that style of house music

40:57

was.

40:57

Like going to an Andy Kaufman level for this

40:59

song. Talking about the end, Yeah.

41:00

I mean it's so good. It's

41:03

so good. But you

41:05

know that's the thing though, like right, like everybody

41:08

knows about that song. Everybody's seen it like

41:10

a million times, and people are sick

41:12

of it. And like, I think

41:14

that that's where TikTok

41:16

is really struggling. And I think that if

41:19

more artists actually, because

41:21

there are so many great artists that are just not

41:23

getting discovered on TikTok

41:26

and just period in general, there's

41:29

gonna be so there's so much music

41:31

that all of us will miss out on for

41:34

people who should be way more famous

41:37

than they are and they will never

41:39

be famous. And it's kind of

41:41

a sad thought.

41:42

Yeah, it's what it is, I mean,

41:44

and you really figure out, I think a

41:47

lot of artists figure out if they love to make

41:49

music or if they love the idea of being famous,

41:51

and those are two very different things.

41:52

Well, but there's a balancing act

41:55

there because you kind of need to be

41:58

somewhat you need

42:00

to be business savvy to really prolong

42:03

your your life in

42:05

the entertainment.

42:07

Oh, I agree, but I think there's

42:09

definitely people that have a love

42:11

to be loved, if that makes sense,

42:13

and then have a love to create music and

42:16

so it's you know, it's

42:18

a balancing act. But I think it's like, uh,

42:21

you find the ones that lean towards

42:23

one way or the other, and some

42:26

of them are more useful in different situations

42:28

than some of them are not. So like, that's just

42:30

kind of sadly,

42:32

like you said, it's the tightrope they all walk where.

42:35

You know, if you just love to make music, it's like,

42:37

god damn it, I got

42:39

them. And then some people are like, I

42:43

just I love making the social media stuff.

42:45

You know, I like music, but I like the performance.

42:48

I like to be seen, you know, like that, and it's

42:51

the you know, battle between a musician and performer

42:53

at the end of the day.

42:59

Well, big changes in the

43:01

music industry, and another

43:03

big change is that the pro

43:06

performance rights organization BMI

43:10

has been engaging with outside

43:12

parties over the possibility of

43:14

a sale, according to Billboard,

43:17

and what that means is that BMI, which

43:19

is which is historically a nonprofit

43:22

organization, will now be turning

43:25

into a for profit organization

43:28

which has a lot of people, artists,

43:30

writers, everybody freaking

43:33

out essentially, right, So

43:38

some of the biggest names on BMI, which

43:40

I think people would be surprised to hear this

43:42

because I don't know some of these artists

43:44

you'd think would just like jump to askap or something

43:47

because it's like more I don't know, like.

43:51

Bougie, I mean, it's all

43:53

about my pr O friends are

43:55

all like, it's all about the relationships.

43:58

Yeah, one hundred percent, and like and

44:00

to be honest, BMI excels

44:02

at the relationships yep, most

44:04

of the time, because they're the first pr

44:07

that people deal with when getting into the industry

44:09

because it's free to sign up and

44:12

you have a BMI representative and you're

44:14

able to like talk to people and

44:16

they can track you and like see where you are in your

44:18

career. But some of the songwriters

44:21

they have are Kendrick Lamar, Taylor

44:24

Swift, and Rihanna, among some

44:26

one million others. And they

44:28

reported that its revenue reached

44:31

one point five to seven three billion

44:33

dollars and that it distributed

44:35

one point four seven one

44:38

billion dollars to songwriters, which

44:40

is like pretty great for like a nonprofit.

44:43

I mean yeah, right there, it is one hundred

44:45

you know, their budgets like one hundred million dollars,

44:48

so that may yeah, I.

44:49

Mean, they're they're getting so much

44:51

money. They also have it down to

44:54

like pros have this shit down

44:57

to a science, like when it comes to

45:00

collecting royalties and and getting people

45:02

paid. And I think that a

45:04

lot of the industry, the other industry

45:06

is envious of that.

45:08

Dude. There's some to go like, well,

45:10

it's just there's these big three. There's VMI,

45:13

there's ASCAP, and there's sexy Sex the

45:15

one that actually is for profit

45:17

but like right now, and uh,

45:20

basically they

45:22

have this trifold of it.

45:24

But they're very like I was talking to actually

45:26

someone just the other day, they're

45:29

very competitive with each other and

45:31

they have like a lot of like you

45:34

know people that try to that have this.

45:37

People.

45:38

Yeah, and it's a whole thing. And

45:40

like literally I've heard stories where people have to be

45:42

like under the table until like the last

45:44

day of their like current contract

45:46

then move and like stuff. I like, it's

45:49

it's insane. It's this trifl shark

45:52

kind of but they are the three, like there

45:54

they are the three, like yeah,

45:56

and it's just

45:58

like they fight to the over this

46:00

kind of stuff. So with the big change

46:03

like this leaving basically as

46:05

CAP as the only you

46:07

know, not for profit entity,

46:10

it's going to be really interesting to see how that

46:12

changes BMI, because if you're a corporation

46:15

and you make one point five to seven three billion

46:18

dollars and then

46:20

you lose one point four to seven

46:22

one billion dollars to pay out the songwriters,

46:24

that's not a very good business model

46:27

in terms of for profit, you know what

46:29

I mean. But for nonprofit that's exactly

46:31

what it's supposed to do.

46:33

Yeah, exactly. And that's why a lot

46:35

of songwriters are very very

46:38

concerned with these changes, because

46:41

for profit equals less profit

46:43

for them, if that makes sense. So

46:46

in a letter from the

46:48

Black Music Action Coalition, Music

46:51

Artists Coalition, Songwriters

46:53

of North America, sag AFTRA,

46:55

and Artist Rights Alliance had

46:58

they basically sent it to

47:01

Mike O'Neill, who is like the head of

47:03

BMI, and they laid out

47:05

why pros are so

47:08

important, especially to

47:10

songwriters' livelihoods, and

47:14

they basically explain right that they

47:16

are very concerned with the changes they have.

47:19

They have about twenty

47:22

five to thirty so intense

47:25

questions. Oh god, directly

47:28

to Mike.

47:29

Oh god, I'm looking at the questions. Oh my

47:32

god.

47:32

It is a very long list of questions,

47:36

to which Mike responded with not

47:39

answering this question.

47:41

This is like a like they all

47:43

the questions, like most of them are

47:45

just run on sentences. They're like you

47:47

know when you were doing a test in high school

47:50

and it would be like, oh, thank god, I'm on question five,

47:52

and then you go to five B and you're like fuck,

47:54

Like yeah, that's what it's like.

47:56

Yeah, it's pretty intense. It gave me

47:58

anxiety when I read it, But

48:01

I'll read the first couple of paragraphs

48:03

because I feel like it kind

48:06

of summarizes the Can I.

48:07

Read number five? Get it? If

48:09

we're gonna go down? Five is the funniest

48:11

thing I've seen.

48:13

Yeah, absolutely so, Dear Mike.

48:15

As you know, there is no BMI without

48:17

songwriters. Songwriters have

48:20

a vested interest in changes at

48:22

BMI and in any proposed

48:24

transaction, which is wholly dependent

48:26

on songs they have written. BMI

48:29

has been very active. BMI

48:31

announced a shift for a for

48:33

profit model and engaged Goldman

48:36

Sachs to explore a transaction

48:39

where a private equity company would

48:41

purchase BMI. BMI

48:44

does not own copyrights or other

48:46

assets. It is a licensing entity

48:48

for copyrights owned by songwriters and

48:50

by extension publishers. Songwriters

48:53

have a right to understand these

48:56

decisions and how it impacts

48:58

us. As advocacy or organizations

49:00

representing songwriters, we have questions

49:03

about the impact of a proposed transaction

49:06

on our songwriter members. In the spirit

49:08

of transparency, we hope that you will answer

49:11

the following questions, Like Colin,

49:13

what's the question you want to.

49:14

I just okay, so like that it goes

49:16

down this number one, we heard that BMI

49:19

was reported one hundred and thirty five million dollars in profits.

49:21

It shifted to a for profit model. Is that

49:23

accurate? And it's kind of going down this But

49:25

my favorite one and here is five and

49:28

which sounds like I like you're getting cross examined

49:30

in a courtroom. We

49:33

all know that the way to become

49:35

more profitable involves increasing

49:37

revenue or decreasing expenses.

49:40

If revenue increases, shouldn't

49:43

that money go to songwriters? Well,

49:45

B and I need to reduce its distributions

49:48

in order to drive further profits,

49:52

I asked.

49:53

The court, you know what I mean, Like, it's pretty

49:55

intense. Yeah, it's a very intense

49:57

sletter. But O'Neill

49:59

came back with another counter letter. By

50:02

the way, both of these letters are like submitted to publications.

50:05

They like this is very much

50:07

publicly in the public eye. Yeah,

50:10

it's like, what's going on? He goes. Dear

50:13

Coalition and Association members,

50:16

thank you for your letter this afternoon. You

50:18

raise some important questions about BMI in

50:20

our successful move last October to

50:23

a for profit business model. As

50:25

you stated, there is no BMI without songwriters,

50:28

and no one knows this better than us.

50:30

Our mission has been and always will

50:33

be to support our songwriters, composers,

50:35

and publishers and grow the value

50:37

of their music. It is what we have done

50:40

since launching our company with an open

50:42

door policy in nineteen thirty nine.

50:45

As we shared with many of you in October,

50:48

our move to for profit was

50:51

so we could invest in our company

50:53

to ensure our continued success and

50:55

growth for the future, while

50:57

also increasing our distribution.

51:00

And the first three distributions

51:02

under our new model all exceed previous years,

51:04

with two being the largest in our company's

51:07

history. Our reasonability is

51:09

to continue that trajectory on behalf

51:11

of our affiliates. As you know,

51:13

the music industry has undergone dramatic

51:15

change and continues to evolve rapidly.

51:19

We need to continue to invest in our

51:21

business and explore new avenues for

51:23

revenue generation so we can

51:25

continue to expand our distribution sources.

51:28

We share a common goal with you in

51:30

that we believe music creators should be

51:32

appropriately compensated

51:34

for the crucial contributions

51:37

that they make to this industry. We've

51:39

proven this time and time again.

51:42

And uh, you know, like sorry, can

51:44

I yeah, he kind of reading this a bunch.

51:46

Like if I was revising this, like he like

51:48

put this in for like review as like a draft

51:51

paper, I'd be like, okay, we can cut

51:53

about like eighty percent

51:55

of these lines.

51:56

Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. It's it's

51:58

obviously pr to

52:00

the extreme like this letter,

52:04

which like you know, it's like

52:06

what you gotta do when you're like the

52:08

head of a company and people are mad at you,

52:11

right, But there

52:13

is a level of like there's just like no answering,

52:16

like he's he doesn't get specific with

52:19

the questions of like answering each

52:21

specific question and like laying out what

52:23

the changes will be, because I think to

52:26

some extent they don't even know what the changes

52:28

are yet until they finalize

52:30

the sale.

52:31

And I'm reading like what

52:33

he says under here, like here's the things

52:35

we've done since we've moved to profit, like

52:38

to try to be a for profit

52:40

business, and it's like really jokey,

52:42

like it's just like super joke. Like

52:45

number one, we've announced a partnership with Music

52:47

Nation to establish a music licensing and royalty

52:49

infrastructure based in the UAE. Okay,

52:52

cool, that's you know, the UAE is

52:54

an important country. I'm glad that you have

52:56

a basis because if you guys don't know this pros

52:58

and you know different countries do they have the form

53:00

a relationship with them, and then it's kind of like you

53:03

get p r o' and then you get pr ight again and then

53:05

it goes to the songwriter. Right, yeah,

53:08

you ae great, we love that. Definitely

53:11

not the biggest country for this, you

53:13

know what I mean. Like if they're like we've done all

53:15

of Russia and India and China,

53:18

you know what I mean, it'd be like all right, there we go.

53:20

But like u AE is not the biggest country

53:22

in the world, which means songwriters it's like your

53:24

p r O paymounts are crazy.

53:27

We have an.

53:27

Extensive customer service initiative to

53:29

enhance the service we provide, which is like what every

53:33

country. Yeah,

53:35

like it's just like nobody's ever like

53:37

we're really just not walking

53:40

with customer service anymore. And

53:42

then number three is it's like we've.

53:43

Planned great apperiencing very high call

53:46

volumes. Yeah right, And then that's

53:48

my favorite thing because it's always a high call

53:50

volume.

53:51

It literally it says quote around the high number

53:53

of royalty and administrative questions that

53:55

we receive. Okay, just let's

53:57

just say to why would you say that?

53:59

Like it's like more of like we know you are

54:01

important. We just need you to answer

54:04

these questions. Don't like throw in a boast,

54:06

being like because a lot of people want to ask us

54:08

stuff. Ye. Then the third

54:10

one is plan an upgrade of our online

54:12

service portal, including new dashboards.

54:15

Okay, thanks Facebook, what I'm getting an

54:17

iOS update?

54:18

Like what?

54:19

Like it's just those

54:21

are the three things. By the way, that's those are

54:23

the giant three things. It's almost been a

54:25

year and they're like, this is what the for profit

54:28

model has done, you know what I mean?

54:30

And so it's dude,

54:33

it's such a joke. Like it

54:36

I think they could make some argument about

54:39

for profit in some way if they really

54:41

wanted to. That is one of the worst arguments

54:43

I've seen just being.

54:45

Like, yeah, we want

54:47

to make money, we want to make more

54:49

money.

54:50

Well it's really we want the splits not to

54:53

you know, we don't want to have a fiduciary, you

54:55

know, actual responsibility

54:58

to pay out most of this money like a five one C three

55:00

does. Because like if you

55:02

guys have not been involved with five O one C three,

55:05

most goals of five to one C three is to

55:07

spend the money on good things

55:09

to help the charity, you know what I mean. So

55:12

it's like a lot of those five on one C three's

55:14

try to keep you know, enough to be liquid

55:17

just in case an emergency happens. But literally

55:20

they're just trying to be like, let's help our

55:22

community that we're designed to help us. A five to

55:24

one C three, which is what BMI like

55:26

they're saying in here, they did pretty well. Like

55:28

they they only have what one

55:31

hundred million in operating costs and they

55:33

made like, you know, over one

55:35

point four one point five billion.

55:37

Okay, I feel like that's a pretty compo.

55:40

They're a multi huge national

55:42

company. All right, that's fine, but

55:45

like when you go to for profit, I mean, I've

55:47

got to hit on this point again. It's like the

55:51

coalitions here have a point. They go

55:53

the way to become more profitable is that

55:55

you increase revenue or you decrease expenses.

55:58

It sounds like you're not increasing revenue that

56:00

much. You don't have that much to expand

56:03

on, BMI. You know what I mean.

56:05

Yeah, you didn't give me.

56:06

You said we got UAE, which is in the

56:08

scope of a world a very small country,

56:10

you know, compared to like some

56:12

other deals or upping how other deals

56:15

work right in this ten or this like

56:17

twelve month trial period you've been in, So

56:20

I think the answer is right. I think the answer

56:22

is literally, they're gonna decrease it. They're gonna

56:24

decrease like expenses, which could

56:26

mean payouts, and that's

56:30

that's gonna be rough or worse. You're gonna

56:33

other than decreasing payouts on top of

56:36

that, you're gonna cut staff down, which

56:38

already you know these staff people

56:41

I talk to you with pros they work so hard,

56:43

dude. So it's like, I

56:46

don't know what you could do here, BMI. It's like there's

56:48

not much. It's very similar to our conversation

56:51

we had about streaming the other day, where

56:53

pros are even in

56:56

a like or in an interesting

56:58

space where it's like where are we going? Where

57:00

else can we get? Where are we at market capitalization?

57:03

Here? The only way they could get better is

57:05

that if they re negotiate

57:08

a lot of these deals worldwide, or

57:11

they really really really

57:14

step up trying to get these venues to pay

57:17

to you know, license the music that's

57:19

being played at their place, you know, the eight

57:22

hundred dollars fee or whatever a year, right,

57:24

which would probably most people don't

57:26

even know that, right, Like regular people don't

57:28

even know that.

57:29

You have to pay for public restrunts

57:32

that they don't.

57:32

Even know that. So it's like there is a market

57:34

there. But I feel like you would have to have a multi

57:37

million dollar ad campaign going

57:39

hey, you're stealing

57:41

music, We're going to send you the jail like

57:44

Napster.

57:46

Yeah, is it the ad where it's like the.

57:50

Don't pirate? Like

57:54

literally, pirating music is bad.

57:59

It's like pounding and it's just like mam,

58:01

pirating music sounds sick.

58:03

You're just sitting there like we're even counting

58:05

it, like cooler, we're even

58:07

counting the cooking staff in the back that has

58:10

the phone up on the metal. Can you

58:13

know? So God,

58:17

dude, those ads were so funny back in the day.

58:21

And then like yeah, there

58:23

there's so and here's another great question,

58:26

Uh if me and my cells will writers

58:28

or composers received part of the sale proceeds?

58:30

And then the more important question, in my opinion I

58:32

be myselfs will the broadcasters and BMI's

58:34

board received sale proceeds? M

58:38

hmm yeah,

58:40

So, like these questions are very

58:43

good, and I get it. I get it.

58:45

Like a lot of these are probably being actively negotiated.

58:48

You know, they can't say it or whatever, but it's

58:50

like, yeah, yeah, like your

58:53

your argument for the for profit model

58:56

is really working out so far is probably

58:58

really is really bad, you know what I mean. If

59:01

it was like, you know, we've renegotiated

59:04

Europe in Asia and also we've

59:06

got like forty percent more venues,

59:08

like we're paying money, like it would be like okay,

59:11

that's fine, but like you're not. So

59:14

it seems like somebody's trying to get a golden parachute

59:16

here. If you get my draft, All

59:23

right, Colin, we've come to the

59:25

end.

59:26

It is time.

59:29

Don't pirate. Sorry, keep

59:31

going. He's a vandom but no, no, no, no, that's

59:33

not like that.

59:35

All right, Colin, what have you been listening to?

59:37

Yo? Danny Phantom? He was just fourteen. Let's

59:41

see what have I been listening today?

59:43

Actually started with yo.

59:44

Yeah, yo, Danny Phantom, he's just fourteen.

59:47

Fuck yeah.

59:48

His parents built this strange machine

59:51

and then my favorite part, his molecules

59:53

got rearranged. Anyway,

59:57

I've been listening to but I

59:59

haven't watched it yet. But I tried

1:00:01

to get my girlfriend to watch it and she was like no, and I

1:00:03

was like, come on. I was

1:00:05

trying to watch the Wham documentary, thought

1:00:08

ye on Netflix. I really

1:00:10

I've always liked Wham. Well

1:00:14

I got my you know, I have that red key tar

1:00:16

here that plays the Last Christmas as the song,

1:00:19

like as the demo song for it. But uh,

1:00:22

if you want to know if I'm a true Wham fan, but like

1:00:24

I was just like looking like one of my favorite

1:00:26

pastimes. And if you've never done this, I would

1:00:29

really like challenge

1:00:31

you to do it. Is that if you really

1:00:33

like some song, just start looking up

1:00:35

live versions on YouTube and how they're

1:00:37

different, cause it's kind of like you

1:00:40

really, especially in the like when

1:00:42

recording used to be so expensive

1:00:44

and they just had to get it done. You know it.

1:00:48

It's so different live sometimes because

1:00:51

like a lot of people are like, ah shit, I should have done

1:00:53

that, but it's like we couldn't afford it,

1:00:55

so we'll do it now live. But one

1:00:58

of the ones that I found is Everything

1:01:00

She Wants from Gee. I

1:01:03

think it's in GTA Vice City, but

1:01:05

that's where a lot of people randomly know that song.

1:01:07

But I like a lot of Wham songs, and this is

1:01:09

one of the ones that I also knew from Vice City.

1:01:12

But Everything She Wants is, like

1:01:14

I was reading up about it. George

1:01:17

Michael a lot was kind

1:01:19

of done with Wham towards the later part

1:01:21

of the eighties and was like I'm gonna be myself.

1:01:23

I'm gonna just you know, be George Michael and

1:01:26

everything. And he

1:01:28

didn't want to play a lot of Wham songs

1:01:31

like at all, like at all,

1:01:33

any of them. And the

1:01:35

one Wham song and he even says it in

1:01:37

this live recording, I'm gonna, you know,

1:01:39

kind of plug here.

1:01:41

Is that.

1:01:43

He said. He goes, you know, this is the Wham

1:01:45

song I'm gonna play basically, and

1:01:47

the reason he plays it is is because

1:01:49

it's he basically did the whole song himself.

1:01:52

It's actually the B side to Last

1:01:54

Christmas, but

1:01:56

like Last Christmas was done in the same way where

1:01:58

like George did like a lot of

1:02:00

the stuff himself. It's got this limb

1:02:03

drum pattern in the front that's like the

1:02:05

same the entire song, and he

1:02:07

just built on top of that and he was

1:02:09

like at first, he was like I don't know about this, and then

1:02:11

people just kind of encouraged him to

1:02:14

do it and to like listen and

1:02:16

be like, no, you should put this out and everything,

1:02:18

and so it kind of it was like the first song I was

1:02:20

reading about that, Like he finally was like, oh, I can

1:02:23

do this kind of stuff by myself. I don't need

1:02:25

like the whole shebang

1:02:27

of like Team and even Wham itself. It

1:02:29

can just be George Michael. So anyway,

1:02:33

he puts this song out on Last Christmas

1:02:35

and he starts playing it solo, and the one I kind

1:02:37

of gravitated towards, which I

1:02:40

would say this is the spiritual

1:02:43

like grandfather to Tiny Desk

1:02:45

is MTV unplugged right, because

1:02:48

it's basically the same concept. It's like, you guys

1:02:50

are trapped here, you guys gotta do it. You

1:02:52

guys are trapped here now. I don't know why I said it,

1:02:54

like that, you're not leaving until

1:02:56

you play everything she wants acoustically, George,

1:02:59

but no, like seriously, he

1:03:01

plays this song acoustically, and it's really

1:03:04

interesting to hear acoustically because it's such

1:03:06

an eighty synth heavy song,

1:03:08

so it's like interesting to hear it like with

1:03:11

all of these guitars and all of

1:03:13

these like background vocals, and like

1:03:15

he does the chorus different, like

1:03:18

it's not like the original song. And

1:03:21

I was like, that's really weird. So that's like a

1:03:23

really good example of it if you want to hear like somebody

1:03:25

who was like, oh, I thought about this song. We're not gonna

1:03:27

do it like that anymore. Also, you

1:03:29

can see if you look up the MTV Unplugged

1:03:32

version of this song, you can see probably

1:03:34

the worst haircut that George

1:03:36

Michael has ever had. I'm

1:03:39

not even joking. This man is known

1:03:41

for having good hair, and I was like, this is atrocious.

1:03:47

God, it's so bad. You should if you, if

1:03:49

anything, you should look it up just for that haircut.

1:03:52

Joe, what are you listening to?

1:03:55

I've been listening to a artist

1:03:57

called Chris Ulrich has

1:04:00

an EP called Big in the USA, and then I

1:04:02

also listen to like discover

1:04:05

this artist called two Blinks I

1:04:07

Love You and

1:04:10

there's a song called It's

1:04:12

I Love You on the EP. It's like the first release

1:04:15

for this project, and it's

1:04:17

already getting like a good amount of streams on it.

1:04:19

But like it's kind of it's

1:04:22

it's a beautiful record. If you like

1:04:24

like early two thousand's grungy,

1:04:29

kind of like songwriter

1:04:31

singer songwriter vibes,

1:04:34

then you will definitely love this project.

1:04:37

And all the creative behind it too is like very

1:04:39

like it's I don't

1:04:41

know, it's like very indie, but also like I

1:04:46

don't know, it's just it has it's like so authentically

1:04:48

early two thousands situation

1:04:51

that I think like we

1:04:54

all like some artists are really

1:04:56

trying to emulate but can't write,

1:04:58

you know, And I feel like the this artist

1:05:00

has and the songs

1:05:02

are just beautiful. They're just really beautiful

1:05:05

songs. Definitely recommend you check

1:05:07

it out. Yeah, this haircut's horrible.

1:05:10

I was waiting for you to see his haircut.

1:05:12

This is a bad haircut.

1:05:14

I know, and he's known for having the best hair.

1:05:16

Dude, every time.

1:05:17

I look at it. Horrible haircut.

1:05:19

I literally am like I can't even watch the video, Like

1:05:21

I like, he's orange.

1:05:24

Well it might be also just VH

1:05:26

one like film grade and then

1:05:28

on top of that, like a YouTube VHS

1:05:31

upload of this video. But like

1:05:33

I guess, dude, yeah.

1:05:35

I mean he looks like he has a spray tan.

1:05:37

For sure.

1:05:38

I mean, for sure he's gotta be Absolutely it's

1:05:40

George Michael. He's gonna have a spray dan.

1:05:41

And it's he He looks horrible. I'm

1:05:44

sorry, he looks good.

1:05:45

It's just the hair is bad. Like that hair

1:05:47

is so bad.

1:05:49

No, the facial air is bad.

1:05:52

The hair is bad.

1:05:53

All right, well the spray Tanna is bad. Following

1:05:55

me for my next podcast, George Michael

1:05:57

the Fan Call Up Edition. Guys,

1:06:00

thanks for listening to the VIZ tape. You're all thanks to Music

1:06:03

Business and Media podcast. We sure do

1:06:05

appreciate you out there. You want to do one more

1:06:07

favor for us to share the show wherever

1:06:09

you want to follow the show, Tell friend, we

1:06:11

are here and we are here for you, and as always,

1:06:14

guys, keep it short this time. Thank

1:06:17

you so much and thank you for listening