0:23

Welcome to the final episode

0:25

of the biz tape You're All Things Music, business

0:28

and Media podcast. I'm your

0:30

host for the last time, Colin

0:32

McKay, with my host Coast

0:34

to Coast Jesseph Baslasi,

0:36

who he did refer to have an episode.

0:39

I just want everyone to understand

0:42

that Colin has

0:45

literally like run

0:47

this whole show since the very beginning,

0:50

and Colin, I just want to say this to you that

0:55

it truly has been just

0:57

a wonderful experience doing this podcast

0:59

with you, and it's taught me so

1:02

much, and

1:05

that you absolutely

1:08

crush it every time every day

1:11

we did this, you crushed it.

1:13

Well, thank you. I think I have some room for improvement.

1:16

Now, wouldn't that.

1:16

Be the I do?

1:18

I do you

1:20

imagine you said this really heartfelt

1:22

thing and I was just like, yeah you did.

1:24

All right, yeah, well fuck

1:26

you. You know.

1:27

Okay, No,

1:30

Joe and I have been ping this from the

1:32

beginning and it's been a

1:34

long ride. So we're taking it easy on

1:37

this episode, just talking, you know, kind

1:39

of let add knowledge about the business,

1:41

media whatever. I have

1:43

some things that I haven't told Joe about that

1:45

I was like, oh, let's uh ask Joe about

1:48

this or whatever, because I saw some stuff. But

1:50

it's gonna be really relaxed for this one. We don't know how

1:52

long this will go on. But I mean, I

1:55

mean, first and foremost, we're at one hundred and fifty

1:57

episodes on my episode counter. But we did

2:00

and you know, we did those Grammy.

2:01

Episodes, so we did crazy,

2:04

we did. Wait, how many years doing

2:06

this?

2:07

We've been doing this for three years, Joseph,

2:09

three years.

2:09

Holy shit, dude. So when

2:11

this.

2:12

Comes out, it would be about three years of content,

2:14

which I mean, I think we should go

2:16

into a little bit of like how we got

2:19

here with this because we never we

2:21

never said it, and like everyone I've talked

2:23

to, you know, I'm a pretty bashful

2:25

person, you know, like I had not

2:28

perceived on the show at all, but in life, I'm not just over

2:30

here like, oh, I have a podcast, you know what

2:32

I like. It's just like more of

2:35

what I'm saying is that I thought.

2:37

Like that where you're in the corner

2:39

of the party and they're like, no one knows that I

2:41

have a podcast.

2:42

Right exactly. So let's

2:44

get into I mean, Joe and I met in college,

2:47

as some of you have inferred, and I've said multiple

2:49

times on the show, and we

2:52

just got along so well right immediately

2:54

about a lot of things musically and stuff like that.

2:56

And Joe wanted to go into more content side

2:59

and I wanted to go or towards audio. So we

3:01

kind of always had like a synergistic relationship

3:03

with one another, and

3:06

we decided like we were living

3:08

together still after college. I

3:10

was in the beginning of like my live sound

3:13

kind of career. Joe had just kind

3:15

of really started going like fully

3:17

freelance out of school everything

3:20

like that. And you know, it was

3:22

twenty nineteen, and in touring,

3:24

there was nothing that could happen. There

3:26

were no place we could.

3:29

Nothing, There was no Iceberg

3:32

on the horizon.

3:32

Exactly, and nothing was. Nothing's

3:35

wrong, nothing is wrong. By the

3:37

way, Joe and I are slightly drinking for this episode,

3:39

so enjoy that anyway.

3:40

Can you tell?

3:41

So it was twenty nineteen. Nothing

3:43

could stop us at all, right,

3:46

And then I got a call. I'm literally

3:48

sitting in our like shop and

3:50

somebody goes, if you heard about this virus

3:52

in China, and I went, but of

3:54

probably, you know, it's gonna be like swine flu.

3:57

It's gonna be like you know, over and

3:59

done, you know, some people you

4:01

know, might get really hurt.

4:04

I'm really sad for them, and we need to develop a vaccine.

4:06

But it's like, you know, it's gonna be like every other

4:08

kind of thing we have, where like Hilaria pops

4:11

up. And two months

4:13

later we were going to halftime

4:15

hours and we

4:17

were very uncertain about this what our

4:20

jobs were gonna be there, So,

4:23

you know, at that point went to you

4:25

know, kind of there was no touring

4:28

whatsoever. I mean, everybody

4:30

was trying. This was before we even figured

4:33

out the normalcy of like, you

4:35

know, I'm trying

4:37

to think like an example, like it would be like a FedEx

4:40

are you ready to rock out? I

4:44

can't hear you from your couches, you

4:47

know, like and it'd be like, well, this song

4:49

and then that we haven't even got to there yet, right

4:51

Like, it wasn't like, oh, we're going to do zoom corporate

4:54

things. Nobody knew what the hell to do. So

4:57

I was sitting in our house

5:00

Joe and I lived in, and

5:02

I remember, you know, my brain started

5:04

going a little crazy because funny enough, at

5:06

the time, I was on unemployment plus the six

5:08

hundred dollars a month that we

5:11

had and I was making

5:13

more money than I ever had made because

5:16

I was in the beginning of my career, so like

5:18

that a week was more money than I had ever

5:20

made. And so I just decided.

5:22

I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do things for myself. So I started

5:25

running, I started doing stuff, and you know, I

5:27

had always been kind of a creative body, Like I did

5:29

some songs, I did all this, and I kind of

5:31

was like, Joe, why don't we do a

5:33

show? And Joe, I remember

5:35

you were like about what, like

5:37

what are we going to talk about? It was so funny,

5:40

like you were so innate with it. You were like, we

5:42

are doing a show, but we just don't

5:44

know what we're doing, which I think was part of

5:46

like, you know, the atmosphere at

5:48

the time, because we were all just trapped inside. What else

5:50

were we gonna do? You know what I mean?

5:52

Well, I think too. We had like we

5:55

had a we had a friend,

5:58

not had we still have.

6:00

He's gone now, our friend he's gone now?

6:03

Who he said something right about

6:05

starting a show or was it like

6:08

that you guys can talk forever about

6:10

this shit or something? Because

6:12

we would just get into these like insane

6:15

in tenth conversations.

6:17

Exactly, and like we would just be we

6:19

would be ruining dinners across

6:21

Nashville because like we did, Joe

6:23

and I would just start on some

6:25

tangent about something we heard

6:28

on the news, and like it all came

6:30

back to our college days where

6:32

we were you know, thriving

6:35

music business students, smile as an

6:37

audio kid, and like we would just sit

6:39

in the college and we'd be like, did

6:41

you're about mgmt's new album? And

6:43

they'd be like, that's really strange. MGMT hasn't

6:46

like and we would just keep going off. So we never

6:48

stopped doing that. Like we would just be

6:51

menaces at parties, like, you

6:53

know, everyone's having a good time, we're dancing

6:55

or whatever, and then I'm over here talking

6:58

about how interest rates are going to the

7:00

record labels, you know, and be like isn't

7:02

that interesting? And everyone else is like go

7:04

away, and Joe's like that is interesting.

7:07

So that's how we got here. But

7:09

like seriously though, like that's how this

7:11

started. And then you

7:13

know, I can't go into details, but basically, uh,

7:16

some people kind of saw what we were doing and

7:18

believed in us, and all of a sudden we had

7:20

a real quote unquote show, you

7:22

know what I mean, And it was like, oh my god,

7:25

here we are. So it's just kind of crazy, like you're

7:27

saying, it's been years.

7:29

Which very much thank you to Bobby

7:33

and Mike from Nashville

7:35

Podcast Network for who have always

7:37

been very for like yeah,

7:39

and and for taking a chance on

7:42

us as well, Like I

7:44

mean, we couldn't have asked for a better

7:46

team.

7:48

They featured us on their show. We

7:50

like, you know, they reached out to us, like

7:52

we didn't. We didn't we didn't campaign

7:54

at all for ourselves. We thought this would be a fun little

7:56

covid.

7:57

I mean, we we got very lucky,

7:59

right like with them

8:02

finding out about the show and stuff, and like we

8:05

we had we at that point too, had been doing

8:08

the show prior to

8:10

to joining up on the

8:12

on the network, but we

8:16

were very we were kind of still

8:18

figuring it out. You know. It wasn't really

8:20

until we got on that we had.

8:22

Some until we had somebody say that this could

8:24

be a real deal, you know what I mean, And so like

8:26

yeah, and again, I mean, I

8:29

don't want it to be like one of these I'm not trying

8:31

to give like an Oscar speech where they like start

8:33

playing the music and they're like, shut up,

8:36

you know what I mean. But like literally they were so

8:38

helpful to us, and thank god,

8:41

you know out there no I just like just go down

8:43

the full Oscar speech and my mom no,

8:45

but like anyway, but seriously though,

8:47

they were very helpful. And then the other

8:49

thing was is that we had supportive fans

8:52

that listen to the show. And like, you

8:54

know, guys, guys, guys,

8:57

if you're listening and I've been listening to the show,

8:59

you have to understand we are niche

9:02

beings. We are very

9:04

niche. You know, people are

9:06

fighting to get.

9:08

Music like a point zero zero

9:10

four population right right.

9:12

Right, people are fighting to just get regular music

9:14

listened to. To talk about music at

9:16

nauseum is very niche, right, And

9:20

like we thankfully you know here in town

9:22

and Nashville and Joe lived here too, and even in La

9:25

like people just come up to us and

9:27

be like, hey, I've listened to your

9:29

show and I really like it. And like there's

9:31

still people this day that like will

9:34

come up to me. And like one of the

9:36

weirdest things was like people

9:38

will come up and this is a very unique

9:40

like podcaster experience. I will

9:43

have an argument I made six weeks

9:45

ago, and then some person that I

9:47

know or found out about our show will be like,

9:49

hey, I have a really

9:51

big opinion about this and I disagree

9:54

about these words, and I'm like, what did

9:56

I say? You know, like that's kind of and

9:59

so it's just crazy to see.

10:01

The w oh yeah, do you call

10:03

it after you after we have a show? Do you just like

10:06

black out? And you're like, I don't even remember.

10:08

Well, you know, we had different

10:10

things, because one thing that was nice about

10:13

a relationship was that Joe

10:15

with the content guy, So I'd

10:18

send him the video whatever, you know, he'd make clips

10:20

all this kind of stuff. And then

10:23

I just have to, like, for the purposes

10:25

of my brain and the way I was raised,

10:27

I can't usually like leave things unfinished

10:30

if I'm the only person that is stopping

10:32

it, and it's like, you know, not seven hours

10:34

of work, you know what I mean? So I

10:37

usually go into like I'm editing, you know what I

10:39

mean, Like now I'm editing right right after

10:41

the show, But I

10:44

do see what you mean. I mean, Joe, like we've

10:46

we've talked to each other for a long time, but we put

10:49

a lot of work in the show. I mean, like we did

10:51

those deep dives and like, to be honest, I

10:53

mean, to be honest, guys, it's like some

10:56

of our show will remain relevant

10:59

and some of our show will be a time capsule.

11:01

I'm sure, but a lot of it is week by week by week,

11:03

so it goes irrelevant. But I really am

11:05

proud of Like, and I'll ask you this, Joe, what you're

11:07

kind of most proud of with this is like, I'm

11:09

really proud of a lot of the stuff we did that I feel

11:11

like will hold up a lot. Like I think it'd be

11:14

really interesting later on if

11:16

like you ever, you know, think about it,

11:18

Like let's go listen to what we thought

11:20

and people thought around the Grammys, you

11:23

know what I mean, Yeah, in twenty twenty, I think that would

11:25

be insanely interesting, like fifteen

11:27

years later and we're like talking about some artists

11:29

that's like a Best New Artist and be like we don't even know who

11:31

this is and be like, yeah, little

11:33

did we know? Or like another one I love that

11:36

we did that. I think we'll you know, hold the test

11:38

of time, or these deep dive episodes we

11:40

did where we talked about like the Grammys

11:42

is one of my favorite and I had some people reach out

11:44

from the Grammys and talk to me about that, and that

11:47

was really interesting and intriguing. And thanks

11:49

to that person who knows the who they are. And

11:51

then on top of that, like we had some great

11:53

guests on the show that were very nice

11:55

to us, who still you know, have always

11:58

been like you know anything you know, you

12:00

know like and so like I will say

12:03

from the bottom of our heart, and so I don't have to say this like

12:05

fifty times you have to Oscar pull me off with

12:07

a long you know, Caine, Like, thank

12:10

you to everyone who has ever listened to our

12:13

show, who's ever showed it to somebody

12:15

who's told us that you listen to the show, who

12:17

wanted to interact with us, We thank you so much.

12:19

We also thank all of our guests that

12:22

have ever been on the show and everything

12:24

they've done for us. I mean, they've

12:27

gone out of their way and their free time to help us

12:29

with so many things. It's amazing.

12:32

And on top of that, thanks to again Bobby

12:34

and Mike for everything and believing

12:36

from us from the beginning about

12:38

our show. And like I mean, I told Joe

12:40

multiple times, I was like, we shouldn't even be doing

12:42

this like like little anytime Joe

12:45

and I got in a disagreement about something where we're

12:47

just like, I don't know, man, we got to keep

12:49

the I'd be like, Joe, we shouldn't even be here

12:51

right now, Like we're you know what I mean, Like we

12:54

we're eternally blessed. So thank

12:56

you. That's the thank you portion of

12:58

the show that we had to get over the way. But Joe, do you

13:00

want to say any of the last thank you before we move on

13:02

to stuff.

13:04

We've had a lot of amazing people

13:06

support us the whole way.

13:09

Can I can I make one special mention real

13:11

quick? Yeah? I want to think

13:13

at the time unknown

13:16

TikTok DJ, but now big dude

13:18

Veggie for all his help and support.

13:21

He was one of our original supporters

13:23

of the show. He made the

13:25

music that you listened to on the front end and

13:27

the back end of this show. Did it

13:29

for at the time, you know, a

13:32

deal for us that we use in perpet

13:34

to it was, you know, he was so nice

13:36

with his time and so gave us a

13:39

bunch of stuff. And so that's just Trevor.

13:40

I'm so very much a dear friend to

13:43

us, and like he's so sweetie.

13:47

Baby trip You're you're with us in our hearts.

13:49

Thank you. You believed that us from the beginnings. But Joe, keep

13:51

going. I don't want to cut you off.

13:53

No, you're good. That's amazing. Thank you.

13:56

I also want to thank Rachel Gutman. I

13:59

do so much.

14:00

Guests on the show and also just you know, helping

14:03

us with everything legal in her kind of stuff.

14:05

So she is incredible. She

14:07

has She has helped us out immensely.

14:10

She has one of the biggest hearts and one

14:12

of the most caring minds of anyone I've known

14:15

in the industry, and especially you

14:17

know the level of success she has and will have

14:19

in the future. So Rachel, thank you so much.

14:22

Anyway, Well, the oscars

14:24

are now closed, right and it's time

14:28

to free up your minds.

14:30

Oh god, where are we going?

14:31

I want to take you on a journey too.

14:36

I don't know. I don't know what the panto.

14:37

Zoom, I don't know. Well

14:40

anyway, Joe, you know, like I

14:42

thought, I saw this, one

14:45

of these I can remain

14:47

nameless. One of these, well, you know

14:50

what name them. One of our publications

14:52

that I really love to read is most

14:54

news. Who does a mo news on

14:56

Instagram and he did a really

14:59

it was really weird because you know, like I'm

15:01

thinking about the show,

15:03

like what are we doing as an end cap?

15:05

What could we talk about? And

15:07

he had some polls and with his audience,

15:10

I think came to a really, really

15:12

like interesting place, which is something

15:14

that we have echoed on the show all the time, which

15:17

I think you're you're gonna be like, wow, we have

15:19

talked about that a lot, which is can

15:21

you separate art from the artist? Is

15:25

that a question you can? And I know I was joking

15:27

on the last couple of shows. I was like, we got to ask some hard

15:30

questions here.

15:31

Right, Yeah,

15:35

can you separate art from the artist? I

15:38

find it hard. I find

15:40

it hard to do certain

15:44

mediums. I guess it's easier if you don't directly

15:46

see the artist. I

15:50

had a heart, I mean personally

15:53

like, uh, and

15:55

you know what, I'm just gonna it's the last

15:57

episode. Who cares, We're gonna say it.

16:00

We're gonna say what we're thinking. The

16:03

Kanye stuff was horrible. I

16:06

think yeah, that was that was definitely that now

16:09

got to a point to where

16:11

you know, like at a at a level I've never

16:13

been like a giant Kanye fan. I've

16:17

always admired his ability

16:19

to create some pretty amazing

16:21

songs, but like I've always

16:24

kind of thought that there was like something

16:27

deeply weird, especially

16:29

like towards like later years

16:31

of like the way that he was pivoting

16:34

with his brand of just being this like force

16:36

of like I'm just gonna say shit, ye

16:38

to say it absolutely, and like it got to it

16:40

got to a toxic point before

16:43

even heh like we cancel that,

16:45

right, people.

16:45

Were you know, like yeah, like people

16:48

were starting to yeah the question, like

16:50

and he even knew it. I mean, that was the whole wine

16:52

when he was Like people missed the old Kanye.

16:54

That's what they were talking about.

16:56

You know what I mean, Yes, that was what

16:58

was going on that

17:01

like when when the anti

17:03

Semitism stuff came

17:06

out,

17:09

I mean there was stuff that came out before

17:11

that too, right, Like he was what

17:13

was it the he was.

17:15

With very radical people

17:18

all the time.

17:20

It was getting it was getting like so

17:22

crazy, like his inner circle his like

17:24

whole thing, and like it just

17:27

it like truly.

17:28

Notably, a lot of people separated the

17:31

art from the artists. They were like Kanye,

17:33

Well people did and like.

17:35

People it, but I don't know if that's healthy

17:38

and certain and like I think it is, I

17:40

don't know if that's entirely.

17:41

I don't think it is, because you're not perceiving like

17:44

kind of the person fully, you know, you're

17:46

kind of just picking and choosing in a lot of ways. But

17:49

it was like at that time and then

17:51

the comments of the anti Semitism

17:54

came out, and you know, it was clearly

17:56

anti you know, Semitism,

17:58

and everyone there was no ifs about

18:00

it, right, And so I'm glad you mentioned

18:02

Kanye first because he did

18:05

a poll about this. He said, uh, Kanye

18:07

West, And he was doing these polls where basically

18:09

he asked like, what do you think about

18:11

them now?

18:12

Right?

18:13

And he said Kanye West, praise for Nazis

18:15

and Hitler, various jack assery thoughts.

18:18

And the options were easy music, still

18:21

listen, still listen, but

18:23

feel a bit guilty, did

18:25

listen? No more? Never

18:28

liked his music, okay, which

18:32

the way it broke down.

18:33

And this guy has I feel like I feel like people

18:35

the kind of guess with the majority.

18:38

Okay, yeah, so your options are still listening.

18:40

I think still listen for you.

18:41

I think the majority voted

18:43

still listening but feel guilty.

18:45

You know what? You want to know something really funny about it?

18:48

Uh, fifty percent said,

18:51

uh, never liked his music, which

18:53

I think is hilarious because even

18:56

even Moe here says, he goes, also,

18:58

half of you never liked his music. College dropout

19:00

was iconic, which it's true, but like,

19:03

yeah, basically taking

19:05

away the fifty percent that maybe just never liked

19:07

it, they go, and again there

19:09

may be some people that now are like, you

19:12

know, after he did all this was like I

19:14

never liked it, and they liked it, you know what

19:16

I mean, Like they really I think that's more

19:19

what's what's going on? I think so too, And

19:21

I also think that's people forget how many songs

19:23

Kanye was actually on or a part of, you

19:25

know what I mean.

19:26

Yeah, So.

19:28

In terms of like everything here, like

19:31

uh, that we have taking away the fifty

19:33

percent for never liked his music, you have nine

19:37

percent still listen to Kanye,

19:39

which I'm like, Okay, that makes that makes sense,

19:42

eleven percent still

19:45

listen but feel guilty,

19:47

and thirty one percent don't listen anymore

19:50

and never will. So I thought

19:52

that was very interesting

19:54

to see, is like you know, from

19:56

this bigger poll, which I mean you can get

19:59

this is a quinnipiac, you know what I mean, Like we're

20:01

we're doing you know, kind of some gorilla

20:04

journalism here, but like, yeah, it's it's

20:06

insanely interesting to imagine, like, you

20:09

know, the effect now that Kanye

20:11

has had, because Kanye, you know, was

20:15

seen by many as like the artiste of

20:17

the generation and now is you

20:20

know not. So it's

20:23

it's interesting to see. Another

20:25

one, if you want, is uh R

20:28

Kelly, which we talked about

20:30

numerous times on the show because his entire trial

20:32

happened during the show. We talked about our opinions

20:34

there. Interesting about R Kelly was

20:39

we talked about on the show part of the reason he had

20:41

such trouble legally, other than the charges

20:43

against him, was that he has no money

20:46

basically anymore, right because he

20:49

he he's a he can't read,

20:51

he's a literate, and he signed

20:53

a bunch of contracts that were extremely

20:56

predatory and they

20:58

bankrupted him basically, like he got none

21:00

of his like he signed away all his music.

21:02

Can he maybe this is

21:04

horrible to ask, but can he still

21:07

not read?

21:08

Or can he I don't know if he's learned

21:10

to read in prison, but I know that, like I

21:12

think going in he still couldn't read, just

21:15

giving his background and everything, like he just

21:18

he he he, and the

21:20

kind of the stardom he still had. He didn't really

21:22

need to know right now. But

21:24

uh, basically, yeah, So people

21:27

asked about R Kelly plain and

21:29

simple, you know, like what's going on

21:31

with that and everything? And here are

21:33

the options for that? They said, I still listen,

21:35

uh separate art from the crime. I

21:38

still listen. I feel guilty about it. I

21:40

did no longer and I never liked the music.

21:44

We kind of have another thing that says like forty five percent

21:46

never liked the music. So we're going to take that one out because it's

21:48

just like, you know, people have different

21:50

tastes, right, and again, we kind of hid that thing

21:52

where it's like maybe some people that are like I never

21:55

liked the music.

21:56

I really only listened to like one R. Kelly song.

21:58

You know, I liked a couple I believe I

22:01

Can Fly. I mean there was that there

22:03

was

22:05

like my favorite was, h what is it?

22:07

A R Kelly? I feel like also is kind of out

22:09

of our general.

22:10

Bump and grind. I mean, he was more of like

22:12

middle nineties, right, you know, and so

22:14

like he and

22:16

he has a great voice. It's just you know, he's done

22:19

terrible, terrible things, you know that have been proven

22:21

po a law. And uh so

22:23

here's how the breakdown for that is. He goes ten

22:25

percent, I still listen, Separate

22:27

art from Crime, I still listen,

22:29

feel guilty about it, twelve percent, and

22:32

then thirty three percent I did

22:34

no longer.

22:37

Which is which was what was the top one?

22:40

I still listen and I separate

22:43

art from crime is ten percent, and then

22:45

I still listen and feel guilty about it as twelve

22:47

percent, and then thirty three percent

22:50

is I did no longer. So

22:52

they're they're done with it. So people

22:54

were like fans and they were over it. You

22:56

know what I mean, is Matt

22:59

Healy on this list, you know that's

23:01

a really good one to actually talk about. Is

23:03

like you know, that's kind of broaching

23:05

into some territory there, and like especially

23:08

you know what's weird about him is like way

23:11

he he kind of has that thing that a lot of celebrities.

23:14

Sorry I need to I need to interject

23:16

here. I saw the funniest

23:18

ship. People are calling

23:21

Matt Healy the the gen Z

23:23

Morrissey.

23:24

Oh shit, dude, I think

23:26

it's pretty what an insult, dude?

23:28

Insane?

23:29

Yeah, No, I mean.

23:31

It's like it's so crazy and

23:33

and kind of not

23:35

not correct.

23:38

This is one thing that I feel like you

23:40

have to admit from time to time, and you know, we do

23:42

a show, so it's just like, you know, awkward

23:44

emit. It's like I feel like I'm not ill. I'm not

23:46

equipped enough to give like opinions about

23:48

him a lot, you know, because I just not don't

23:51

follow him enough, you know. Yeah, And

23:53

but like he does have that thing going

23:55

on that I know about where it's like he's

23:59

just got had this like volatility to him,

24:02

and like it feels like there's a group of people

24:04

and this happens all the time in like really kind

24:06

of controversial artist careers where

24:09

a group of people were like, you guys, just don't

24:11

get it. It's like part of the game, you know

24:13

what I mean. Yeah, and then some people are

24:15

like, no, this is

24:17

just wrong, you know. And so he's got that

24:19

around him, which not every artist has,

24:21

right. I don't think that's a part of every artist career.

24:24

I think some artists summon

24:26

that into their career, you know what, I mean.

24:30

Yeah, I think, like, I

24:33

mean, I guess

24:35

it's like it's it's a lot different right

24:37

from from R. Kelly and Kanye's

24:40

positioning, right of like it's

24:44

he was kind of he was kind of more

24:46

like in the room with other people talking

24:49

and saying horrible shit, and

24:52

then he was like laughing and

24:54

it was like it was racist comments on like a

24:56

podcast, and he was like laughing along

24:58

with them, which

25:00

could have been internalized as like, oh,

25:02

he's just like feeling awkward about

25:05

it, but instead of saying that, he came out

25:07

and said like nobody fucking cares,

25:11

which made it even worse because

25:13

he's just disregarding at that point,

25:15

like the racist comments. And then it was like after

25:18

that, the whole festival that was in I

25:21

can't remember which country it

25:23

was in a country he kissed a

25:26

band member and it was illegal there

25:28

and they shut the entire festival down for

25:30

everybody. Wasn't just the nineteen seventy five

25:32

It was like the whole festival got you because

25:36

of it. Yeah, And so like

25:39

there's just like a lot of decision making

25:44

that's a little worrisome there, that honestly

25:47

is very Kanye.

25:50

It's very like kind of Kanye.

25:52

Yeah, And that's what I'm saying. And like, I

25:54

feel like one thing is is that you

25:58

like, if anybody's like losing their mind over

26:01

that, just I'll brace it to you, you

26:03

know what I mean, Like it's it's one of those things

26:05

where you know, we see Kanye now

26:07

as the full picture with the anti Semitism

26:09

and then the other things that now we're like, man,

26:11

this was like we should have been looking out for this, you

26:14

know what I mean, Like this was definitely warning signs,

26:16

right, and we have that full

26:18

picture now we have, you know, all

26:21

of that available to us. And I think

26:23

if I was going to give a parable here from the Matt

26:26

Heay thing, I think Joe, you're

26:28

making more of an argument of like he

26:30

might be on like you know, twenty ten, twenty

26:32

eleven, twenty twelve Kanye where it's like he's

26:35

starting to do some shit and I don't know about it, you

26:37

know what I mean. Like, and that's

26:39

that's what I'm saying here, is like, don't get lost in

26:41

the you know, full picture of Kanye

26:44

today. Think about like Kanye's

26:46

career path, but it's definitely not

26:48

ill familiar by any ways, you know, what I

26:50

mean, Like it's it's something

26:53

that is brooding, which

26:55

is interesting, right, and like I'm not trying

26:57

to do you know, if I got some real nineteen seventy

26:59

five fans out there, like it's

27:01

not just him. I think it's interesting to be

27:04

introspected about it in general, because

27:07

how do we have constructive change in the music industry,

27:09

right when it comes to these terrible things

27:11

and these people that like a lot of the time,

27:14

you know, you go to these like these

27:17

stories and testimonies and

27:19

everybody talks about like these people

27:21

and they go, oh, yeah, that was openly known, like

27:24

everybody knew that around them, Like everybody

27:26

understood that. Everybody

27:28

knew that, right, And so like the only

27:31

way to do this is, like, you know, can

27:33

we examine what

27:35

these artists kind of have in common? And

27:38

you know, maybe from Matt heally he won't go all

27:41

the way that direction, right, or maybe he will have

27:43

it. You know, it's not like he's locked on a path,

27:45

right. But it is interesting

27:47

from a perspective of like these

27:49

cyclical kind of things that happen with a

27:51

lot of these artists who

27:54

fall into controversy, right and start

27:56

kind of going down the controversial and more controversial

27:58

and even crazier controvers paths.

28:01

It's like, where where's our point

28:03

where we're like, no, you need to reassess

28:05

right now, you know what I mean? And

28:08

I think what's weird about that is

28:11

like when I first started the

28:13

show, which I guess we'll give you

28:15

know, maybe some things that you learn from the show, because

28:17

you know, one thing me and Joe have talked about a lot is

28:19

like from reading the show and the publications

28:21

and stuff, I like feel extremely well

28:23

informed, you know what I mean, Like more

28:25

informed than I did in like college. I just have like

28:28

theories, you know what I mean. But

28:31

like, one thing that I feel like I've learned

28:33

from it is that there

28:35

is definitely a line that

28:37

people in society have with this controversy,

28:41

and it is very movable

28:43

and it is very dependent

28:45

on the person in the situation, you know what I

28:47

mean. And if you did the exact

28:50

same things as like somebody

28:52

else that's fallen into controversy

28:55

decades ago or even years later,

28:57

you will have a completely different you

28:59

know path, right, some

29:01

of them maybe if were stopped ten

29:04

minutes into their career because it's egregious.

29:07

And then some of them, were you know,

29:10

let go and just oh no, it's fine

29:12

forever. So that's one thing I feel like I've learned

29:14

from the show is like, there's

29:17

definitely like a line that

29:19

gets drawn. And I, and we've talked about

29:21

a lot on the show too, is like I

29:23

and I think, Joe, you would probably support this. I don't

29:26

think there is

29:29

exceedingly rare people

29:32

that are fully canceled in this world.

29:34

I just do not prescribe to that like

29:37

that. You know, people are always like this person is

29:40

canceled forever, and I'm like, I'm sorry.

29:43

But most of the time that's you know.

29:45

When it's like they come back and they make millions

29:47

of dollars on some other prospects.

29:50

And you can draw that line of what canceled

29:53

means to you anywhere, you know what I mean. Is it

29:55

canceled if you

29:58

know they've fallen from

30:00

like you know, being in the top of the charts

30:02

and being like a household name. But there's still

30:04

you know, maybe doing little shows in

30:07

theaters across you know, the United States

30:09

or other than another country. Is that canceled?

30:11

You know, people are still giving them money, you know, for

30:14

doing this thing, right, And then like

30:16

some people are saying like canceled is just like you

30:19

know, all total nothing debt,

30:22

you know what I mean, Like they're over no and you

30:24

know they have to work at like some menial

30:26

job outside of entertainment, you know,

30:28

and they have to be like and then it's like, oh

30:31

man, like where does it start?

30:33

Where does it end? And I don't prescribe

30:35

to this whole like, oh well,

30:37

you know, people are canceled all the time.

30:39

I'm like, I think

30:42

that you know, what they mean

30:44

by canceled is a different thing. I definitely

30:46

think it's like you know, in life

30:48

and especially in the music industry, it's like play

30:51

stupid games, get stupid prizes, you

30:53

know.

30:54

But I

30:56

do think, well, especially when it's like

30:59

it's so I

31:01

think people think that their words, their

31:03

actions don't have any kind of innate

31:06

value outside of themselves sometimes

31:09

and like it becomes like this, I

31:12

don't know, I think like it's it's

31:14

it's crazy because it can when you

31:16

like take off as an artist, it can like completely

31:19

shift your perspective on life because

31:21

there is like there is this constant

31:26

watch over you right like of

31:28

public and to

31:30

some extent it can get to you in your brain

31:33

like it's it's it really

31:35

fucks with your head when all these

31:37

people are like all of

31:39

a sudden showing interest right in

31:41

your music,

31:43

creative endeavors, whatever, and

31:48

then you get start asked like a

31:50

bunch of topics that like, especially

31:53

if you're a megastar, like you get people

31:56

all these like it's kind of insane,

31:58

Like Colin, I don't know, I don't know if if you've like

32:00

like watched like Red Carpet shit, but

32:03

like there's like so many of these

32:05

interviewees trying to catch celebrities

32:09

into some like gossipy story.

32:12

Well of course because like it's like oh

32:14

if you yeah, oh if you do

32:16

this, Like it's almost like this drive

32:18

to catch

32:20

people that's also unhealthy.

32:23

But then there's the level of like, you know,

32:26

Kanye, where does yeah, like Kelly.

32:28

I get what you mean, You're trying to play both sides here, where

32:31

it's like, you know, there's a level of like

32:33

what we call gotcha journalism, and

32:35

then there's like you know that kind of stuff where

32:38

it's just like we want you to say like one

32:40

thing that is going to get you in

32:42

trouble.

32:43

And I think the gotcha journalism

32:46

is also to

32:49

some extent, uh,

32:51

negatively impacting because it

32:53

takes away from like the the actual.

32:56

And that that's exactly what I was gonna say is there

32:58

is a line between gotcha journalism

33:00

where it's kind of facetious things are

33:02

taking out of context all that kind of stuff,

33:04

which really does exist, and

33:07

there's also a line between that and

33:10

just pure investigative journalism,

33:12

you know what I mean, like the idea of being

33:14

like, hey man, you said this crazy

33:16

thing the other day, can you like

33:19

elaborate on that a little bit, you

33:21

know, And so like it's it's definitely

33:24

like you're saying, it's it's

33:26

important to look both ways there

33:28

where you have to kind of see

33:30

what's going on with the situation. And

33:32

the one of the things that I will say

33:35

as like someone that does production stuff

33:38

has done production stuff. It's just

33:40

like, you know, I

33:42

feel like there's there's a lot of

33:45

people that get, you know, things

33:48

from how things are edited all that kind

33:50

of stuff at the same time, and I

33:52

think there is credit

33:54

to that at the same time, but I

33:56

also think I also think

33:58

we almost we kind of have this like meta

34:01

argument going on a lot with celebrity

34:03

culture where something that's like

34:05

clearly shown it's one shot.

34:08

You know, it is before you know Ai

34:11

has even really taken off to be like completely

34:14

like you know, fooling

34:16

people one hundred percent of the time. Right,

34:19

Like people have this like rationale

34:21

where they see their celebrity and they just one

34:24

they don't care and ignore it, or two,

34:26

which I think is way worse, is they'll have like

34:28

the full context of something and they'll be like, you

34:30

guys just don't understand, Like you don't understand

34:32

what he's talking about. I'm like, we completely understand

34:35

what he's talking about. That was a full one

34:37

shot clip of him explaining what he's

34:39

talking about. Right. So, and that's

34:41

not just in reference to Kanye, I just mean like in general

34:44

in life. And so I've seen a lot of like

34:46

people are like, you don't know about production tricks,

34:48

and I'm almost like, yeah, that's that's

34:50

the problem. It's like you don't know about production tricks.

34:52

It's like I cannot change

34:55

you know, everything about them as a person

34:58

in a clip. Right. It's like, you

35:00

know, if there's something weird, if there's

35:02

something out an you know, it's probably

35:05

you know, use your best judgment here. But if you're

35:07

you know, if you got your gut feeling something's

35:10

weird and something's wrong. It's like, yeah,

35:12

maybe we need to examine it. Yeah, we need

35:14

to examine that.

35:15

So like side note, Colin,

35:18

I just got your d M from

35:20

the Hard Times.

35:22

And it's what Joe and I do all the time.

35:24

But we interviewed Beck

35:26

but it turned out to be Michael Sarah in a

35:29

big hat.

35:30

Welcome back to what I was talking about that me and Joe

35:32

are niche. But

35:34

yeah, it's that's a good ship.

35:37

So basically,

35:40

one thing I think would be interesting to talk about Joe

35:42

is we're here now. You

35:45

know, we're really you

35:48

know, we're kind of we're still in the beginning of our careers

35:50

in some ways, but you know, we're settled right

35:53

in a lot of ways.

35:55

I don't you know, it's not like I

35:57

don't know if settled, Well,

36:00

we're not.

36:01

We're not.

36:02

I'm constantly anxiety

36:05

when it comes to me.

36:05

Well that's true, but it's like, you know, your ball

36:08

of anxiety is in that field. It's

36:10

not like you're like I could be a label guy, right,

36:13

you know what I mean? You you know,

36:15

like, and that's the one thing I will give advice for is

36:17

like if you're interested in this kind of stuff, it's like pick

36:20

a zone and then just play with the zone

36:22

until you're like, I don't like this part, I like this part, I don't

36:25

like this part, and then go there. So me and Joe are

36:27

in our zones. Let's say that. And

36:30

one thing I'd be interested to say is like, Joe, what

36:33

do you feel like? What do you like? You know? As

36:35

a I feel like this is not said a

36:37

lot on music business shows, so maybe it would be

36:39

interesting for our fans. Is,

36:42

uh, how do you feel you are

36:44

now, like in terms of your

36:46

career, where you're going? What do you want to do?

36:48

That kind of stuff I can go first. Also,

36:51

this is a lot of stuff, you know, because

36:53

it's like, you know, I'm just kind of tired.

36:55

Everybody in their interviews for stuff like

36:57

that with music business is like I'm on the

36:59

way up. Maybe this is all I'm doing. Yeah,

37:02

I'm making them three million dollars tomorrow

37:04

because of this idea.

37:05

Not making three million dollars in the music And it's

37:07

just like I'm just gonna say right now.

37:09

And then all of them are like, you know, that

37:12

was part of the full plan, baby, Like that

37:14

was just even though we lost six million dollars,

37:16

that was part of the three million dollars, you know what I mean.

37:19

Yeah, I think like.

37:21

I think it'd be interesting to talk about. Yeah,

37:23

if you want me to go first, that's fine too. And you can

37:25

say as much or as little as you want.

37:27

No, I'm down. I'm down to answer. I

37:30

think like. So,

37:32

here's the thing, Like, honestly, a lot of the change

37:35

for me has been because of

37:37

the move from Nashville to Los Angeles

37:40

in a lot of in a lot of ways. And

37:45

what's crazy, I mean the culture. First off,

37:47

I want to just like explain kind of the culture difference

37:49

because it was, like, it's very

37:51

scary when you first move here.

37:55

It's very well in your face.

37:57

It's like there's so many people,

38:00

and it's it gets it's the niceness

38:02

of like Nashville,

38:05

where it's like Nashville is a big town that feels

38:07

like a small town. Right, It's

38:10

like you run into people everywhere, you like

38:12

have your like network of friends. There's

38:15

a downside to that too, Right, where like

38:17

Nashville can get very very clique,

38:20

it can exclude, it can exclude

38:22

people pretty much

38:24

like off the basis of jealousy

38:27

or whatever.

38:29

It could be like a lot of a lot

38:31

of people will exclude because

38:33

they're doing better outside of Nashville, which

38:36

is which is like a weird thing.

38:39

Another thing I will say is like, you know, there's kind

38:41

of like you know, you're you're in your

38:43

you're in your zone. The music industry

38:46

is a small industry in itself. Everybody

38:48

says that, but in Nashville it's like incredibly

38:50

small. So it's a little weird because

38:52

it's like I feel like in more major

38:54

cities it's like, Okay, I did my job,

38:56

I'm home. Now, you know, I'm gonna go to the grocery

38:59

store. And it's weird now for me, especially

39:01

in my position, because it's like I literally

39:04

will run into somebody that I might know at

39:06

the grocery store, like you know what I mean, like

39:08

which is really straight. And then and then like my girlfriend

39:10

looks at and they're like, how do you know this person? And I'm like, like we

39:13

met during this singer songwriter

39:16

like get together thing. And so that is a whole

39:18

thing with Nashville too. But anyway, I didn't want

39:20

to get off your thing with that, So you get

39:22

you went to La and you, what's

39:24

what's going on with LA? How do you feel LA is different

39:26

than that? So we have small town Nashville and then LA.

39:30

Well, I think like the the main thing about LA

39:33

that especially when you're working in creative

39:36

Like first off, everybody here is working in

39:38

a creative field pretty much

39:40

true. Like you go to a grocery store

39:42

and like some dude is like the producer of like some crazy

39:45

show of like blah blah blah.

39:46

He's working on a field. Degree.

39:47

Yeah, like everybody is like doing

39:50

shit and like to some level that's

39:52

like so rewarding

39:54

and like so like oh sweet, I'm

39:56

like finding like my people. On

39:58

like another level is like a bit of like

40:03

there's a networking attitude when

40:06

you walk into rooms

40:08

here of like I if you're going

40:10

to a place and you're like, I want to make friends tonight, I

40:12

don't want to make I don't want to make coworkers.

40:16

It gets to be very hard in the music industry

40:18

because everybody is like working constantly

40:21

here to where

40:23

it's like it's hard to talk about anything else,

40:26

you know. But I think like a lot of the grounded

40:28

people figure

40:31

out a way to get like get around that and to like actually

40:33

be normal, you know. So

40:37

there's like a little bit of like an adjustment there, and

40:39

like there's a lot of people and

40:41

you can you can be picky with your friends

40:43

here, like you don't have to be

40:46

friends with like the first person you meet, and

40:48

sometimes you might not want to do that because it

40:51

is like you

40:53

know, it's it's there's so

40:55

many people like I can't I

40:57

can't like say that.

41:00

I mean, that's interesting. I didn't think about

41:02

that. Like it's the honest where

41:04

it's like you want to form a relationship

41:07

with every single person that

41:09

you meat, which is also kind of universally true,

41:11

but like in Nashville, it's even more because people

41:14

feel that, you know,

41:16

one or two times, it's like, yeah,

41:18

man, I will see you again.

41:21

In La, there's actually a chance you will never see

41:23

this person again.

41:23

Yes, people are very open to that

41:26

in Nashville. People in LA are very

41:28

closed in some ways. You

41:30

have to like.

41:31

Break really interesting.

41:32

You have to break through the wall a little bit.

41:34

There's like an La wall. It's this It's New

41:36

York is similar in a lot of ways

41:40

to where it's like you break the.

41:41

New York column.

41:42

Yeah, but you

41:45

once you break through, like you're you're You're

41:47

good. You know, like it's like with any

41:49

other place, right It's just like it's just a

41:51

different way that people live,

41:53

and it's with any major cities kind of like that. It's

41:55

not just like La New York whatever.

41:57

So do you feel like you've broken

42:00

through the wall?

42:01

I think I have. I think I'm

42:03

not like fully like

42:06

I would love to be. I

42:09

think like right now I'm

42:11

getting booked out so

42:14

much, which is such a blessing. It's

42:16

like so amazing. I've

42:19

I've I will say, like I've been getting booked

42:21

out way more here than I had

42:23

in Nashville. It's

42:25

it's almost like night and day. It's kind

42:27

of crazy.

42:29

There's so much more because it's yeah.

42:31

There's there's a lot of there's a lot more.

42:33

There's a lot of demand right

42:36

now, especially in the music space, there

42:40

is people

42:42

are willing to take chances on

42:44

you for a project here

42:47

because it's less expensive than if you were

42:49

filming in Nashville. To be

42:51

honest, really, you think so. You

42:53

think it's less it's less expensive

42:56

for the for

42:58

the actual production costs here, like

43:00

when it comes to hiring people, it's more expensive,

43:02

but like okay, for a production costs.

43:05

It's cheaper here, so.

43:07

You think the infrastructure is there, which

43:09

then like and there's healthy competition, so

43:11

then your production costs are lower because it's

43:13

like, well there's like fifteen other camera

43:16

places, so it's like we could run a camera from

43:18

one, so we have the competitive prices exactly.

43:21

Yeah, okay, and once you like, yeah, that's really

43:23

interesting. And my experience is not one

43:25

to one with anybody else, right, Like this is

43:27

my experience. I'm lucky enough to

43:30

have already had connections here

43:32

before moving here. I think that that's key.

43:37

And now or La is a

43:39

great place to just pop in and visit every

43:41

couple of months as an artist, you

43:44

know, like it's you don't have to live here, you

43:46

can just put as.

43:47

An industry person, it's great to visit.

43:49

Just yeah, and just to like just

43:51

to see people and like bake friends

43:53

and like you can do that. It's

43:56

it's it's a major city. It's

43:58

like pretty great in that respect. I

44:02

think in terms of my grand

44:05

career, like I've I've been having

44:07

like a lot of internal

44:09

debate of like am I

44:11

cut out to do this job in my like

44:13

forties in fifties, you

44:16

know, it's like I eventually

44:18

am going to have to pivot

44:22

to something you know that's like less

44:24

physically taxing.

44:26

We oh, yeah, that makes sense. Do you think

44:28

you would potentially go

44:31

more towards like mentoring and

44:33

having people work underneath you or

44:35

do you think you would change to side.

44:37

I actually would love I would love

44:40

to mentor. I

44:42

don't know if I am really

44:44

cut out for it, but I do

44:46

think like I

44:48

have some

44:50

some knowledge of how to do stuff,

44:53

right.

44:53

I mean you're getting to like six seven years in your

44:56

career, you know what I mean? It like it makes

44:58

sense, like and then like you would

45:00

have that person to maybe lean on where it's

45:02

like hey man, like you know you work

45:04

with me, why don't you hold all this you

45:06

know, like I've been I'm thinking of your like fifty right,

45:08

Like yeah, like why don't you hold all this heavy

45:11

stuff? And I'll just direct or something,

45:13

you know what I mean? Like and uh so,

45:16

like that's one option, But do you think like maybe

45:18

like kind of a pivot would also be it?

45:20

Like yeah, I don't I don't know marketing

45:23

kind of stuff.

45:24

I mean, I definitely want

45:26

to be I definitely want to do content.

45:29

I think for the foreseeable future,

45:31

Like I love it so much and

45:33

it's been very rewarding. Like I've been since

45:36

moving. I've been working on projects and with artists

45:38

that I have admired.

45:41

I've listened to their music like when I was a

45:43

teenager. Like I like,

45:45

it's gotten to this

45:48

point of like, oh wow, it feels like I'm like

45:50

actually in the industry now of

45:54

like where before I was kind of like, you

45:56

know, I'm not people who you guys

45:58

all know this. I'm not a country music fan. I'm

46:01

just not. And

46:03

I worked in country music for a long time. I

46:06

did not like country music. I think one of the reasons

46:08

I worked well in country music was because I

46:10

wasn't a fan of like a life

46:13

so true, yeah insane,

46:15

And I think, like I always around

46:18

people, and

46:21

it's.

46:21

So nice when you can remove yourself from

46:23

that situation. Like people do that to me all the time. They're

46:25

like, oh my god, I'm just gonna make up names. It's

46:27

like that's Bobby Turnsdale and I'm like, that's

46:30

cool. It seems like a nice guy.

46:32

And Bobby Turnstyle.

46:35

Turnsdale and they'd be like

46:37

he wrote the nineteen ninety

46:39

seven hit song for

46:42

Riba and then he wrote a Shania

46:44

Twain song, and then they always have this, they always

46:47

go like he wrote Riba Shania Twain,

46:49

and then he wrote a Shakira song anyway

46:51

Hello, and then he also wrote

46:53

all of this Christian music and you're like, all right,

46:56

it was a weird path, but that's fine.

46:58

It's a wild ride, let me tell you.

47:00

But yeah, I mean, well good, Yeah, I think

47:03

definitely I agree with your

47:05

point about especially that it's just like

47:08

if you were from Nashville's

47:10

perspective, and I have hit on this

47:12

from the show. Is I remember one

47:14

of the best advice I've ever got in college is you'll

47:16

end up in five cities. You know

47:18

what I mean. You could be like, if

47:20

you want to be like industry, industry, like, you

47:22

could go regionally anywhere right basically

47:25

and do it right. Like it's like there

47:28

are musicians everywhere, but the

47:30

industry is in one of these five places.

47:32

And the one of the five places is we

47:35

talked about two Nashville, La

47:37

Joe mentioned a third, New York. The

47:40

other two are Austin, Austin,

47:43

Texas, and Miami,

47:45

Florida because that is the capital

47:47

of Latin music and so

47:50

and also just world music in general. But

47:53

basically that's kind of where

47:55

the industry is, so I guess I can go

47:57

into my kind of portion of it. It's like I'm

48:00

further in my career.

48:03

When I first got out of college, I

48:06

was mixing this little place, which one of the first

48:08

people that, uh, you know was really

48:10

some of our first listeners that were really into

48:12

the show and message me about it were my coworkers

48:14

from here, which is from Wildhorse Saloon, which

48:17

will soon be rebranded to Hurricanes by

48:19

Luke Combs. Oh whatever, isn't

48:22

that isn't that funny strategy? But I'm

48:25

fine with Luke Combs people. It's just more of like

48:27

the one thing I've been talking to people around town about

48:29

this is I really like that Wildhorse had like nothing

48:31

to do with a particular artist. It was just

48:34

a place which I thought was interesting.

48:36

And there's no place really on Broadway in Second Avenue

48:38

that's like that as much. That's that big. But

48:42

anyway, those guys down there were like my

48:45

first or first real listeners

48:47

on this show, so shout out to them. But that's

48:49

after I got out of college, or really I was

48:51

in college. I remember I was doing

48:53

like audio maintenance class, and I had to be like,

48:56

hey man, I gotta leave. I got a gig, and

48:59

uh so I'd go down there and i'd

49:01

mix country music. And I think that's why it

49:03

was easy, because it was just like you

49:05

know, I knew and as everyone

49:07

who's ever listened to our music recommendations

49:10

on the show knows, I would just listen

49:12

to like old kind of music all the time,

49:14

which people forget is like Nashville,

49:18

compared to a lot of pop stuff, is really

49:20

the home of like acoustic

49:22

music, like having a guitar, having

49:25

a drum kit, having a bass

49:27

on state, like these are things that don't

49:29

pop up like a lot of the time. A lot of these pop

49:32

artists you could get away with having them in tracks.

49:35

So like that's the nice part about coming

49:37

up in this town is that,

49:39

like you get experienced with a lot

49:41

of like acoustic music. I'm sure

49:44

some people would have a pros and cons of, like, well, you don't get

49:46

used to tracks and all that stuff, and I go, well, you get

49:48

used to tracks because there's people, there's artists

49:50

with tracks. But anyway, the

49:52

point is is that's where I got my chops. Did

49:54

that for a while decided

49:57

to go to Claire, which loved

49:59

the company. I knew them from like you

50:01

know, basically forever since

50:03

I started my career as they're the biggest audi now

50:06

biggest live audio company in the world, and

50:10

went there. We already went through twenty nineteen, nothing

50:12

could go wrong, and like

50:15

you know, I came back to Claire after the pandemic after

50:17

working a bunch of wacky jobs, and

50:21

you know, I started out there at

50:23

Claire in twenty nineteen and I

50:25

did just like building racks, the effects

50:28

racks for things RFIM kind

50:30

of basics of that, and

50:33

just tried to make like you know, I've and one

50:35

thing that I feel like sometimes is shot

50:37

down a lot in this industry and

50:39

in other industries in general, is I've

50:42

just always tried to be a student. There was always

50:44

something I'd be like, I'll just do it. I'll just

50:46

learn what it is and I'll do it right. Not

50:49

to be like, don't get yourself in a bad situations

50:51

where you're like doing stuff that's like not

50:54

rewarding or helpful or even remotely interesting

50:56

to you. It's like more of like if there's something

50:58

and you're like, oh, there's a need there, and

51:01

I think it would be interesting to learn about it and

51:03

make the days go a little bit faster. I would encourage

51:05

you to do it. So like

51:07

that's what I started doing at claire Is. I just started

51:10

like learning that. Like first I was

51:12

hired just to check stuff in. Then

51:14

I was like, you know, they're like, you're gonna build

51:16

racks eventually, And I built the racks and then there

51:18

was RFI AM and I was like, how does this work? I've

51:20

never learned. They never taught us in college how

51:22

to coordinate RF frequencies and

51:25

how I ams work and stuff like that. And

51:28

they took me under my wing there and then I learned

51:30

like a little bit of calm and then like you'd learn

51:32

how the industry works, like the people who come

51:34

in, like what the setup is for

51:36

a live show, what they deal

51:38

with the same sorts of faces.

51:41

Like there's a lot of like kind of absorbed

51:43

learning. There. Pandemic happens. I

51:45

come back, it is insane, like

51:48

there is Well,

51:51

actually, I say I got then my before

51:53

I started back from the pandemic, I got a promotion

51:55

to learn amplifiers because that was another thing

51:58

we never learned in college, was how ample fires

52:00

work. And those are what powers the speakers

52:02

and all that kind of stuff like that you hear all through

52:05

the venue. So I started doing that. Then

52:07

we lost my job because of the furlough and everything,

52:09

which Claire was extremely nice kept all our benefits

52:11

there. Everything was great, and then

52:14

I moments noticed,

52:16

like when Claire was like, can you come back? I was like yes,

52:19

And I funny enough even then, I was

52:21

like, do you want me tomorrow? And They're like, why don't you give it two

52:23

weeks to your current job that you're at, And I

52:25

was like, yeah, I should probably do that, right. That's

52:27

like how ready I was to go back and

52:31

came back there. Immediately

52:34

everything was on fire because everybody wanted to go

52:36

on tour all this stuff, and then all these

52:38

people, which I've talked about a lot on the show, just

52:40

weren't going to come back because I got regular jobs

52:42

to survive. I was, you

52:44

know, twenty one

52:47

twenty two, so it was boho, you know what I mean. It

52:49

was like just me and my girlfriend at the time.

52:51

So it was just like I didn't, you know,

52:53

I didn't have mouths to feat or whatever, so I could

52:56

be boho in my life. I didn't have a mortgage.

52:58

So I came back and

53:00

I was one of the few, and I just really started trying

53:02

to take charge and just be like, oh my god,

53:04

how do we do this? What do we do here?

53:07

What do we do there? And you know, I'm very

53:09

blessed is Claire really absorbed

53:11

that in my life. They really went, you

53:14

know, and we're like, oh my god, Colin,

53:17

like keep doing that. We want to support

53:19

you in doing that. And then I just started forming relationships

53:22

with different roadies. And it

53:24

was weird because after a while I just started

53:26

like memorizing things where it would

53:28

just be like people would be building

53:31

rigs that I remember building before,

53:33

and I go, hey, this is weird. Unplug

53:35

this, replug this, and they're like why will

53:37

we and they want that And

53:40

that's when I remember having a moment of going, oh my

53:42

god, I think I'm like actually in this,

53:44

you know what I mean, Like I'm in the industry,

53:46

you know what I mean. It's like I remember stuff

53:49

about special little artist things

53:51

from like five months ago, six

53:53

months ago. I'm in you know, as funny as that is, but

53:55

that's really what it was. So

53:57

Claire really enabled me to do that, and

54:00

then I formed all these relationships, and then

54:02

I just kind of started trying

54:04

to help people

54:07

around me that I feel like could help from

54:09

information that I knew, or

54:11

if I didn't know it, we would learn together,

54:13

which obviously there was a lot I did not know because

54:16

I was only like three or four years

54:18

into my or three years into my clear career.

54:20

So I was like, I don't know about this,

54:22

Let's look at this. I don't know about this, Let's look at this. And

54:25

then I would start calling people, I'd call other

54:27

places, and then we just figure all this information

54:29

together. And then they eventually, you

54:32

know, kind of were like saw my role as that it's

54:34

just the guy would just kind of mess

54:36

himself into things, you know, and

54:40

they rewarded that and they give me a promotion, and now

54:42

I do quality control for that

54:45

office, and it's really interesting

54:47

because now I get to work with all the departments

54:49

that are above it. I've mainly worked in one sector,

54:52

so I you know, now I've like I'm

54:54

almost close to the trifecta of running

54:56

every department at least for like a couple

54:58

of days. I mean, so that that's

55:01

very exciting to me because now I feel like I could

55:03

have the full picture and there's just ways

55:05

where like I literally have a whiteboard next

55:07

to my desk where I'm like, how can I make

55:09

these people's and everybody's lives

55:11

better and easier and stuff like that. So I'll

55:14

just jot stuff down. I'll be like, what have we had this?

55:16

What have we had this? What have we had this?

55:18

And then I'll just go through them one

55:21

by one, and then you know, clients will call and say,

55:23

hey, Colin and think you know about this? Can

55:25

you help me? And I'll be like sure, And

55:28

it's just really it's just really weird now

55:30

because it just feels really entrenched, you

55:32

know. And

55:34

again I'm like, I'm very in audio, but I'm also

55:37

if you guys know, and some of the other people

55:39

who listen to show a lot are solid members.

55:41

If I want to see three here in town have got me really

55:43

connected with a lot of the other people in the industry

55:45

here. I do a lot of stuff, so like I try

55:47

to maintain being a student there where I'm like,

55:50

hey, man, you do like artists

55:53

services at a label? What the hell does

55:55

that mean? And like just you know, that's

55:57

kind of what it's like, and Joe knows that's what I'm

55:59

like I'll just be like, tell me about your job,

56:02

and like, you know everybody,

56:04

you never do that to anybody else. Tell me what

56:07

accounting's like. You're like, God, I

56:09

don't want to know, but Colin's over here,

56:11

like I want to know, you know, like and

56:15

give me those ones and zeros. But yeah,

56:17

that's where I am, you know, And

56:19

I'm just there's so much in

56:22

a good way. There's so much work to be

56:24

done that I feel like is all

56:27

positive. It's just helping people that I generally,

56:29

like, you know, I'm not gonna lie like you

56:31

know some people. It's impossible

56:34

to like everybody in this industry, right, and

56:36

so like I generally help people

56:38

all the time, no matter who or

56:40

what they are, even if I don't like them,

56:42

And then I learned something from it, and

56:45

then I get to take that along with my other

56:47

kind of duties and just try to you

56:49

know, kind of become this lexicon of jack

56:51

of all trades of things. And I literally

56:54

couldn't ask for anything more because at the end of the day,

56:56

you know, I kept saying, I keep being a student. That's

56:58

what being a student is. It's being a jack of all trades.

57:01

Like literally, it's like you know, math,

57:03

you know reading, you know sign like these are

57:05

a lot of different unrelated skills, you

57:08

know what I mean. Like that's kind of what

57:10

it is is that I get to just continue that

57:12

all the time. I mean, Joe and

57:15

I like have talked about it a lot.

57:17

It's like I've debated. I'm like, maybe I'll come to LA

57:19

maybe I'll go to New York, you know, something like that.

57:21

But I think that for me,

57:24

it all comes down to the personal relationships.

57:27

And I don't have, you

57:29

know, something life wise that's

57:31

making me want to move there, and

57:33

I don't have a desire to leave my current thing.

57:36

So I really can't say nothing,

57:38

you know better about it. It's just like I feel like I've

57:40

fallen into a really good thing. And I'm sure this

57:42

is the most annoying conversation

57:45

for some of you that are maybe frustrated

57:47

in the industry, you know, and

57:50

I've talked to a lot of you about it, But I swear

57:52

to God these places exist. And

57:54

so if you're like, you know, thinking about

57:57

it, you're even like, you know, it can

57:59

be as simple as like I just need another

58:01

job in the field of music

58:04

that is related to what I do now

58:06

like let's say you do marketing or something and you're like,

58:08

I need to find another marketing. It can be that

58:11

simple, or you know, for some people

58:13

it can be as like dramatic, as like,

58:15

hey, you know, I

58:18

don't know that much about production, or I don't

58:20

know that much about booking, you know what I mean, Like that

58:22

kind of stuff where it's like you can take leaps in this industry

58:24

and they respect it. And that's kind

58:27

of what I was going to say at the end of the story, is

58:29

through all this hooplah and hours and different

58:32

stuff, the thing that keeps me motivated was

58:34

honestly the pandemic, because

58:37

at one point I was a little frustrated

58:39

because I just felt like I was like going up a hill

58:42

that I didn't know why I was going up the hill.

58:45

I kind of lost my way for a better lack of

58:47

understanding, you know what I mean, Like I didn't know

58:49

kind of lost you know, why I was in this in

58:52

the first place, because you know, college it's

58:54

all about this springboard into your career.

58:56

And then I felt like I got there and I was like what am

58:58

I doing? You know what I mean, Like why

59:00

do I do this? And the only way

59:02

that I'd learned it is by losing

59:05

it, and that was for me

59:07

very monumental in like my entire path

59:10

is that when I

59:12

lost my job in the pandemic. You

59:15

know, at first, actually have a joke

59:17

with the Rodies that first like month or two,

59:20

like if obviously you weren't

59:22

dealing with the perils. And the dread of COVID

59:25

was wonderful, Like it was literally like,

59:27

we're getting paid more money than we ever have

59:29

gotten paid, right, and I get

59:32

to do anything I want, you know what I mean, Like

59:34

it's awesome, right, And then

59:36

I found you know, as time went on and

59:38

the money kind of dried up and everything like that,

59:40

I was like, Okay, I need to get a

59:43

job again. And I was like,

59:45

well, you know, and I'm very tenacious, as you

59:47

could probably tell from this whole conversation, I'll

59:49

just get involved with things, to get involved with

59:51

things, and you know, all this kind of stuff.

59:54

And so I started and I was like, I'm going to get

59:56

a job. And I got a job.

59:58

When my first job out of there, I worked

1:00:00

at FedEx fixing computers.

1:00:03

And at the time, I was

1:00:05

like, I like computers, and you think

1:00:07

you do, and like

1:00:10

I like computers. That was a paul Off Tomkins

1:00:12

jack. But I like computers, and

1:00:14

like, I literally was like, got in there,

1:00:17

and I still like computers. I love

1:00:19

computers. Joe will call me about

1:00:21

computers, and I love it, you know what I mean? Yeah,

1:00:24

And so I got in there and

1:00:27

I hated computers like I

1:00:30

hated computers. Why not

1:00:32

because I hate computers because of what I had

1:00:35

to deal with. You know, I was on an

1:00:37

assembly line fixing computers. They said

1:00:39

you had to fix twenty six a day, all this

1:00:41

stuff. I was with everybody that

1:00:43

wanted not to be there. Every

1:00:45

single person hated every moment

1:00:48

of it. And it came to my reality

1:00:50

that for forty hours a week, I

1:00:53

hate this, right, And I'm sure

1:00:55

some of you are like, wow, Colin, that's

1:00:57

one job. Then I went to another job

1:01:00

that was very wacky and I won't get into it,

1:01:06

but's just say it involved cleaning animal

1:01:08

cages. So I'm cleaning animal cages,

1:01:10

right, And I'm there,

1:01:13

and I'm with these people that are extremely

1:01:15

passionate about the animals,

1:01:18

all these cue and I'm passionate about the animals

1:01:20

because I care about animals and stuff, and

1:01:24

I love it and there's some people that are

1:01:26

not passionate about it and they hate it. They hate every

1:01:28

day, and that just infiltrates everything.

1:01:31

Right. Then

1:01:35

I came back to Claire, and

1:01:37

Claire was like everybody

1:01:40

there decided

1:01:44

that they like music enough to

1:01:46

deal with this ship. And what I mean is

1:01:49

like the late night phone calls, the

1:01:51

craziness of what's going on in the world,

1:01:53

like you know, the spot namy of gear,

1:01:56

all these different things, like it's

1:01:58

crazy or whatever, but every

1:02:01

single person loves

1:02:03

it to the t, just

1:02:06

absolutely loves it. And I that's when

1:02:08

I figured out. I was like, oh my god,

1:02:11

there's nothing like this, Like

1:02:14

they're there. This kind of energy

1:02:17

only exists in a place where

1:02:19

everybody loves the thing they you

1:02:21

know, like the passion, the central idea

1:02:24

that's going through this thing. And this doesn't

1:02:26

happen everywhere, you know. I'm sure it happens

1:02:29

in other places all the time, but

1:02:31

when your passion is music, it can

1:02:33

only happen in a couple of plass right, So

1:02:35

it's not it's not you're going into you know, J. C.

1:02:37

Penny and being like you guys like rock

1:02:40

music, you know, like but like

1:02:42

that no, right, and so like kids

1:02:45

like rock music. Yeah,

1:02:48

right, so this is my final I guess gen

1:02:50

Z thing right here is like, you know,

1:02:53

the passion helps. And

1:02:55

one of the thing things it took a long time

1:02:59

for me to kind of realize the full severity

1:03:01

of this quote. One of the people one of the things people

1:03:04

tell you all the time in the music industry and even the

1:03:06

media industry is you better love

1:03:08

it, right, Like, you

1:03:10

better love it. And usually it's kind

1:03:12

of like a downer, right, it's like you

1:03:15

better love the long hours, the hard work,

1:03:17

all that stuff. You better love this industry

1:03:19

to do it. And it's actually the opposite.

1:03:22

It's a it's a positive

1:03:24

of the situation. It's you better love

1:03:26

it because everybody else kind of does,

1:03:29

you know what I mean, And if they don't, then they get

1:03:31

out, you know, And that's just kind of how it works. But

1:03:34

like, I just never found

1:03:36

other field. Yeah, I've just never

1:03:39

found any other field. I'm sure if I went to film

1:03:41

and I was really passionate about it, you know, I

1:03:43

would feel the same way. But like that's

1:03:45

just kind of the creative thing about music.

1:03:47

So yeah,

1:03:50

well I think we're at the end of the journey

1:03:52

here.

1:03:53

Yeah,

1:03:56

why didn't you listen more, guys.

1:03:57

Yeah, what the heck this is again? This is

1:03:59

your fault.

1:04:01

Joe did say that four episodes ago. Anyway,

1:04:04

Yeah, so Oscar moment again,

1:04:07

everybody? What did I do? If you guys have been

1:04:09

listening for a long time. Every episode,

1:04:11

what I like to end with with this? I go, guys,

1:04:14

thank you for listening, See you next time.

1:04:17

You know, That's what I say. I guess

1:04:19

this is what we're gonna have to do. You know, we don't know where

1:04:21

our lives are going. We told you where it is now, so it'll

1:04:23

be interesting for us to listen later, you

1:04:25

know, ten years, fifteen years or now. But thank

1:04:28

you guys for listening, and we'll see you next

1:04:30

time.