0:00

This season your coffee orders are getting warmer

0:02

and your outfits are getting cozier. The

0:04

world keeps changing and so

0:06

does COVID-19. That's why this

0:09

season's COVID-19 shots have been updated. They're

0:11

one of the best ways to help protect yourself against

0:14

COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19

0:16

shot at the same visit as a flu shot if

0:18

you're due for both, as recommended by the

0:20

CDC. Talk to your health care provider

0:22

to learn more and schedule at vaccines.gov.

0:25

And don't forget to get extra cinnamon spice. Sponsored

0:28

by Pfizer and BioNTech. This

0:30

season your coffee orders are getting warmer and

0:33

your outfits are getting cozier. The world

0:35

keeps changing and so does COVID-19.

0:38

That's why this season's COVID-19 shots have been

0:40

updated. They're one of the best ways to

0:42

help protect yourself against COVID-19. You

0:45

can get a COVID-19 shot at the same

0:47

visit as a flu shot if you're due for both, as

0:49

recommended by the CDC. Talk

0:52

to your health care provider to learn more and

0:54

schedule at vaccines.gov. And

0:56

don't forget to get extra cinnamon spice. Sponsored

0:58

by Pfizer and BioNTech.

0:59

Coming to you Mondays, Wednesdays

1:02

and Fridays, it's the Community Catch-Up. Catch-Up!

1:05

Presented by Experience Columbus. Tune

1:07

in to each episode for a spotlight

1:10

on minority-owned business in our

1:12

city. From the hottest new eateries to

1:14

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

1:16

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

1:19

shaping our city. Learn more about

1:21

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1:24

Business Program at experiencecolumbus.com.

1:28

Hey, it's Tony Bruschi and this is our

1:30

Weekend Review. Over the weekend,

1:32

taking a look back at some of the most compelling

1:35

conversations and stories that

1:37

we've covered for you of the last week. Brand

1:39

new episodes back Monday morning, bright and early,

1:41

5am. Here

1:43

on the podcast. This

1:46

is the Hidden Killers Podcast with Tony Bruschi.

1:48

Featuring defense attorney, Hidden Killers

1:50

daily contributor and host of the Defense

1:53

Diaries Podcast, Bob Motta.

1:55

Bob,

2:00

I want to get your reaction to this. When

2:03

you heard the statements and

2:05

the filing by out-of-the-mart office

2:07

attorneys, what was your initial

2:09

reaction? And now that there's been a little bit of time, where

2:12

are you with it right now?

2:13

So yeah, man, there is no shortage

2:17

of like explosive true crime stories,

2:19

right? Every single

2:22

day it's something explosive that's happening.

2:24

So when I first heard about it, when

2:27

I first heard that they were going to be filing a motion to

2:29

dismiss, I'm like, wait,

2:31

like initially, because there's a 30 day

2:34

rule, typically in each

2:37

state, wherein you

2:39

have to file a motion for a new trial

2:41

within 30 days, if

2:44

you're, you know, going to be appealing.

2:47

So like, I like, cause the court loses jurisdiction.

2:49

Now, what I soon figured

2:51

out, I started digging into South Carolina's

2:54

rules and they have this 29 B which allows

2:56

for them for after discovered evidence.

2:59

As long as they've been exercising due diligence

3:02

in terms of discovering this evidence,

3:04

they can go up to a year before

3:07

they end up filing. So when I first heard

3:09

about it, that was my initial thought. And then my

3:11

mind was blown. And then when I read

3:13

the thing, my mind exploded.

3:16

I'm like, Oh my God, like I've been practicing

3:18

a long time. We have had issues

3:21

with jurors before, but nothing

3:23

that rose to the level of what this potentially

3:26

could be. So I was like, I

3:28

was in, I was shocked, you know, because the allegations.

3:32

If true are

3:34

unbelievable. You know, I mean, in

3:37

what make it so unbelievable it, you know,

3:39

cause the way that it happens here

3:41

in Illinois, like when I'm in court,

3:44

there's a bail off. It handles

3:46

kind of the whole hand, the hand holding with the jurors.

3:49

Sure. It's not, it's not the clerk. Now,

3:51

now I don't know if they have a bail off and a clerk

3:53

situation down there. Are the clerks just doing it

3:56

or what the case may be, but

3:58

in terms of the clerk handles. getting

4:01

all the documents to the lawyers in terms

4:03

of the questionnaires, we're picking a jury.

4:06

But in terms of leading the jury up from

4:08

wherever they have them collected in the morning, up into

4:10

the courtroom or to the jury room, ordering

4:13

lunch, any kind of issues that pop up, it's

4:15

typically a bail-off for those guys or

4:17

gals that have on the maroon or yellow jackets

4:22

that walk around that are basically there

4:24

to protect the judge and they do the judge's bidding.

4:27

They call the court to order in the morning

4:29

typically. Those are typically the

4:31

people that are dealing with the jury. So

4:33

when I'm reading about the elected

4:37

county clerk that is

4:39

doing this, the elected official, oh

4:44

man, I'm sitting there and I'm just trying

4:46

to think what is going on. And

4:49

then I dive into the motion. Yeah,

4:52

my first instinct was like, oh my God,

4:54

he's getting a new trial unequivocally. Then

4:57

you calm down, you start reading through

4:59

it. I start having Twitter Wars

5:01

with people because there's basically

5:04

two camps right now. There's

5:06

the camp that is, okay, Poot

5:10

and Griffin somehow

5:13

went to these jurors and

5:15

they've been bought and paid

5:17

for in order to say this

5:20

and we're not buying it. We think

5:22

that somehow once Poot

5:25

got in the door that he was able to charm him

5:27

and say, hey, is it possible? She said where

5:30

he was massaging the words and what was

5:32

said, they wrote up these affidavits

5:35

and that when it comes to pass

5:38

that none of these jurors slash

5:40

witnesses are going to stick to the

5:42

story. So there's that camp

5:44

that just still believes it's low

5:46

country. You don't know how low country

5:48

works. It's as corrupt as it can be. And

5:52

this thing is all just a facade

5:54

and it's going to get exposed at the hearing if it gets

5:56

to a hearing. And then

5:59

there's the camp.

6:00

where,

6:01

say, I'm in this camp that if

6:03

his Sixth Amendment right

6:06

were violated, then he deserves

6:08

a new trial. It's simple as that. No matter

6:11

how awful of a human – and

6:13

I think he is a terrible human being. No

6:16

matter what. Like,

6:18

he is an awful – I just want that to be

6:20

clear. I am not pro-Murdock. I do not think

6:22

that Murdock was innocent. I think that he

6:24

is an absolute massive

6:27

turd. However, the Constitution

6:30

applies to all of us, and we can't

6:32

create a situation where they

6:34

allow the sanctity of the

6:36

jury room to be infiltrated by elected

6:39

officials coming in and swaying

6:42

a jury. So,

6:44

that being said, I started digging into

6:46

the affidavits, and

6:49

I was bred through the motion, and let's

6:51

talk about that. What questions do you have about

6:53

the affidavits themselves? You know, I went through the

6:56

whole thing this morning, and

6:58

I don't know that I have so many questions, because

7:01

it seems fairly straightforward. What

7:03

we're talking about here – and correct

7:06

me if I'm wrong – we're talking about the

7:08

testimony, the sworn affidavits, from

7:11

jurors – we have at least two of them. There's one that

7:13

was dismissed that wanted to remain anonymous

7:15

that made a statement, but two jurors, at

7:17

least, have said, this is

7:19

what happened. We have their accounts in those

7:22

affidavits. I'm trying to run

7:24

everything through my mind, because this thing has been such a

7:27

twisted turn of a case

7:30

of, I don't see how this would be anything

7:32

other than, honestly, what it is. I

7:35

mean, it's that theory, man. Like, I'm

7:37

telling you, there's so –

7:39

look,

7:40

the state is not going to stand idly

7:42

by, right? Because

7:46

it's not unusual at all that these

7:49

jurors lawyered up, because one of the big

7:51

things that people started asking, oh, well,

7:54

they hired Poot's buddy, Joe.

7:56

Joe is their lawyer, and

7:58

he's the one that's representing them.

7:59

And, you know, that if

8:02

you're a prudent attorney and you are able

8:04

to dig up witnesses that are

8:07

willing to come forward with

8:09

bombshell testimony like this,

8:12

you are going to advise them you should get an

8:14

attorney because the state

8:16

is going to be coming at you hard. Yeah,

8:19

like they've just secured a conviction. They

8:21

don't want to have to go to trial again. They're

8:24

going to be prying. They're going to set

8:26

sled out there. They're going to send them like whoever

8:28

they can get out there, whether it's the feds, whether

8:31

it's sled, whoever it's going to be, they're

8:33

going to be coming at them. If you hire

8:35

counsel, then they're never

8:37

sitting there with unfettered

8:40

access to these people. Like they're going to have

8:42

to go through the attorney in order to

8:44

question them. They want to get together. Fine.

8:47

It's going to be with counsel. And then they're protected

8:50

because this isn't like a simple

8:52

thing. You know, people are like, why didn't

8:54

they say anything? Then the judge would

8:56

ask him every day after court, did

8:59

anybody speak to you about the case? And

9:01

Newman was great about that. Every judge typically

9:03

does that. It's standard fare for a judge

9:06

to ask the jury, has anybody

9:08

talked to you about the case? I've never

9:10

been in a courtroom in my 21 plus years where

9:12

a juror said, yeah, raise their hand and said, yeah,

9:15

this guy was talking to me about, you know what I mean? If

9:17

there's an issue like that, it's typically

9:19

never brought up like in

9:22

open court. However, it does. It

9:24

still does raise the question if the

9:27

clerk of court

9:29

or the county clerk was

9:31

making these kinds of statements, is

9:35

the problem with it is with her being

9:37

in the position of power and authority that

9:39

she's in jurors don't

9:42

know the process. It's all brand new to

9:44

them. Yes, of course you'll have jurors that

9:46

they've served before. But

9:48

for the most part, you're typically having people that

9:50

are not familiar with the judicial process,

9:54

how the court process works. And when

9:56

you have the person who is

9:58

basically directing you.

9:59

you. I

10:00

see your every move for the better part of

10:02

six weeks. In there telling

10:04

you things, you then

10:07

begin to think that well, I mean, she

10:09

must be able to do this, this must be part of

10:11

her job. And you're not typically

10:13

get a question that person, because

10:15

of their position of authority. So I can

10:18

see a world and why it didn't

10:20

come up. You know what I mean? So

10:22

it's man, it's in look, this

10:24

thing, if it gets to a hearing and there's steps, like

10:27

essentially what happens first, is

10:31

Griffin and put go forward and they

10:33

say they're asking for leave of court to file

10:36

it. So the first thing they had to do is they

10:38

had to write a motion for

10:40

the appellate court and say, look, we need to stay

10:42

the appeal, because we have something

10:44

that's going on down in the trial court,

10:47

the appellate court is not going to be able to handle it for

10:50

two reasons. One, because of the statute says

10:52

so and number two, because it none of it was on

10:54

record other than the egg lady. So the

10:56

egg lady juror, she was more

10:58

tired, if you remember, when she got

11:01

removed, like, Judge

11:03

Newman actually had her on the stand and question her.

11:06

Yeah, we all hear it. So like

11:08

that, we heard a lot of that, that

11:10

would be on record. But everything else that's included

11:12

in this petition is not of record. Everything

11:14

happened in the back rooms out at Mozel,

11:17

you know, so so it was not common

11:19

knowledge. And, you know,

11:22

when you get to the situation where

11:24

you're

11:25

trying to figure out why

11:27

they didn't say anything, it does become kind

11:30

of a difficult process. And that is what,

11:32

and so, but getting back to the process.

11:34

So if I'm

11:37

assuming that the appellate court has stayed the

11:39

appeal that allows us to go back down. The

11:42

next question becomes is Judge Newman going to be

11:44

the one to sit on this? Now, if I'm the defense,

11:46

I'm 100%. And I love Judge

11:48

Newman, I thought he was magnificent. I thought he was

11:51

spectacular. The entire trial,

11:53

I fell in love with him. I think the whole country did.

11:55

And but, you

11:57

know, at the end, it's a sentencing he

11:59

made clear

12:01

You know, that they, that the jury did the right thing,

12:03

that the preponderance of the evidence, that

12:06

it all pointed towards their correct

12:08

verdict. I mean, he basically outright said

12:11

that he agrees with the verdict, which

12:13

creates a situation where

12:16

I'm feeling like I have to either ask

12:18

him politely to recuse himself

12:21

or seek to have him removed and

12:23

have him not hear it. Because I

12:25

think that when he put that out there for public

12:27

consumption, it showed that he's

12:30

moved out of the role of unbiased, which is required

12:32

for the judge. He now has openly

12:34

stated his opinion on the record that

12:37

the jury made the right call, that the evidence supported

12:39

their verdict. So- And that's

12:42

where the problem lies because even if they

12:44

did make the right call, which I agree

12:45

that they did, it's still,

12:48

they didn't play by the rules to get there,

12:50

if this is true. And that's what makes the

12:52

whole thing, you

12:54

know, forfeitable, where- Well,

12:56

and it's even worse than it wasn't the state.

12:58

You know what I'm saying? It was like the county

13:01

clerk's doing it on her own accord because

13:03

she's writing a book or, you know, I don't know if

13:05

that's her true motive. I don't know how much money

13:07

she made on that book. I don't imagine too much.

13:10

But, you know, like in her mind, like

13:12

just, you have to think back to that trial.

13:15

That was short of OJ,

13:17

I cannot remember a trial that

13:19

basically the entire country was watching.

13:22

Yeah. No. So people

13:24

will get sucked up into that,

13:27

that vacuum of celebrity

13:30

of the whole world has

13:32

their eyes on us. And I think that's

13:34

what happened with Becky Hill. And she's going

13:36

through the, you know, she's clearly writing

13:38

the book as it's going on. Yeah. She

13:41

clearly came up with the concept, you

13:43

know, and you can tell with some of the things that she was

13:45

doing in terms of controlling

13:47

press interviews. And she was

13:49

taking a lot of things

13:52

under her control that wouldn't typically

13:55

be under her control. So you can see

13:57

she was getting a little bit egotistical with

13:59

respect to her.

13:59

back to her role in this whole

14:02

thing. And I think that she was kind of getting that,

14:04

I'm feeling like I'm the center of the universe type

14:06

feeling. Like I could, when

14:08

I sit here and think that a woman in that position

14:10

who knows better,

14:12

who absolutely knows better, because the jurors

14:14

don't know better. Yes. I

14:16

mean, when Newman's saying, no

14:19

one's allowed to talk to you, like they,

14:21

I think that they're assuming that means, well, obviously

14:24

this woman is allowed

14:26

to talk to us because she talks to us all the time in terms

14:28

of what do we want to eat? Can I go have a smoke? Is

14:30

it a smoke break? Like any questions

14:32

they have, that's the person who's answering. So

14:35

it wouldn't be crazy to think that they would think that

14:38

it didn't apply to her. And

14:40

her talking out of like, remember, like

14:42

no one on that jury was an attorney. No

14:45

one on that jury went to law school. No one on

14:47

that jury understands the Sixth Amendment and

14:49

the intricacies of it. And

14:52

that her saying anything regarding

14:54

the trial

14:56

is an issue for them. Again,

14:58

because of her position is what creates the real

15:00

problem for the state and this thing.

15:03

If she was just like a random person, like in the

15:05

bathroom,

15:07

that's not gonna sway anybody. Because

15:09

to

15:10

me, the bigger issue when trying to figure

15:12

out

15:13

whether or not what she said,

15:16

if that had an impact on their vote,

15:19

how do you know? You know what I mean?

15:21

It's like now we're six months out. At

15:23

that point, like you're trying to go

15:25

back in time and like a couple of the affidavits

15:28

are like, I still had questions

15:30

after Creighton Waters closing. You know, I mean,

15:32

I was still on the fence a little bit. And

15:35

you don't know because we can't

15:37

delve into our minds like that to know

15:40

what impact that had. And if there's a

15:42

question whether or not it had an impact at all,

15:45

it's gotta go, there has to be a retry. Exactly,

15:47

yeah. And we won't know if it did have an

15:49

impact, but the thing is there's a real chance

15:52

that it did. And the fact that is there,

15:54

that there's a real chance that it did have an impact on

15:56

our vote, I mean, yeah. You're consuming the Hidden

15:59

Killers podcast.

15:59

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16:12

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16:22

This season, your coffee orders are getting warmer

16:25

and your outfits are getting cozier. The

16:27

world keeps changing, and so

16:29

does COVID-19. That's

16:30

why this season's COVID-19 shots have been updated.

16:33

They're one of the best ways to help protect yourself

16:35

against COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19

16:38

shot at the same visit as a flu shot if

16:40

you're due for both, as recommended by the

16:42

CDC.

16:43

Talk to your health care provider

16:44

to learn more and schedule at vaccines.gov.

16:48

And don't forget

16:48

to get extra cinnamon spice, sponsored

16:50

by Pfizer and BioNTech. Coming to

16:52

you Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays,

16:55

it's the Community Catch-Up, presented by

16:58

Experience Columbus. Tune in to each

17:00

episode for a spotlight on minority-owned

17:03

business in our city, from the hottest

17:05

new eateries to the trendiest fashion

17:07

boutiques. Get an inside look at

17:10

the amazing entrepreneurs shaping

17:12

our city. Learn more about the Experience

17:14

Columbus minority-owned business program

17:17

at experiencecolumbus.com.

17:18

This

17:21

season, your coffee orders are getting warmer and

17:23

your outfits are getting cozier. The

17:26

world keeps changing, and so does COVID-19. That's

17:29

why this season's COVID-19 shots have been updated.

17:32

They're one of the best ways to help protect yourself

17:34

against COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19

17:37

shot at the same visit as a flu shot

17:39

if you're due for both, as recommended by

17:41

the CDC. Talk to your health care provider

17:43

to learn more and schedule at vaccines.gov.

17:46

And don't

17:46

forget to get extra cinnamon spice, sponsored

17:49

by Pfizer and BioNTech. Coming to

17:51

you Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays,

17:53

it's the community catch up, presented

17:56

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

17:58

to each episode for a. spotlight

18:00

on minority-owned business in our

18:02

city. From the hottest new eateries to

18:04

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

18:07

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

18:10

shaping our city. Learn more about

18:12

the Experience Columbus minority-owned

18:14

business program at ExperienceColumbus.com

18:17

slash MBP. This season

18:19

your coffee orders are getting warmer and your

18:22

outfits are getting cozier. The world

18:24

keeps

18:24

changing and so does COVID-19. That's

18:27

why this season's COVID-19 shots have been updated.

18:30

They're one of the best ways to help protect yourself

18:32

against COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19

18:35

shot at the same visit as a flu shot

18:37

if you're due for both as recommended by the

18:39

CDC. Talk to your health care

18:41

provider to learn more and schedule at

18:43

vaccines.gov. And don't

18:45

forget to get extra cinnamon spice sponsored

18:47

by Pfizer and Viontech. Coming to

18:49

you Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

18:52

It's the Community Catch-Up. Catch-Up! Presented

18:54

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

18:56

to each episode for a spotlight

18:58

on minority-owned business in our

19:01

city. From the hottest new eateries to

19:03

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

19:05

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

19:08

shaping our city. Learn more about

19:10

the Experience Columbus minority-owned

19:12

business program at ExperienceColumbus.com

19:15

slash MBP. This

19:17

season your coffee orders are getting warmer and

19:20

your outfits are getting cozier. The world

19:22

keeps changing and so does COVID-19.

19:24

That's why this season's

19:26

COVID-19 shots have been updated. They're

19:28

one of the best ways to help protect yourself against

19:31

COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19 shot

19:34

at the same visit as a flu shot if you're due

19:36

for

19:36

both as recommended by the CDC.

19:38

Talk to your health care provider to learn more and

19:41

schedule at vaccines.gov. And

19:43

don't forget

19:43

to get extra cinnamon spice sponsored

19:45

by Pfizer and Viontech. Coming to

19:47

you Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

19:50

It's the Community Catch-Up presented

19:53

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

19:55

for each episode for a spotlight

19:57

on minority-owned business in our

19:59

city. From the hottest new eateries to

20:01

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

20:03

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

20:06

shaping our city. Learn more about

20:08

the Experience Columbus Minority Owned

20:11

Business Program at experiencecolumbus.com

20:14

slash mbp. This

20:16

season your coffee orders are getting warmer and

20:18

your outfits are getting cozier. The world

20:20

keeps changing and so does COVID-19.

20:22

That's why this season's

20:24

COVID-19 shots have been updated. You're

20:27

one of the best ways to help protect yourself against

20:29

COVID-19. You can get a COVID-19

20:31

shot at the same visit as a flu

20:33

shot if you're due for both as recommended

20:35

by the CDC. Talk to your health care

20:38

provider

20:38

to learn more and schedule at vaccines.gov.

20:41

And don't forget

20:41

to get extra cinnamon spice. Sponsored

20:44

by Pfizer and BioNTech. Coming to

20:46

you Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

20:48

It's the Community Catch-Up presented

20:51

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

20:53

to each episode for a spotlight

20:55

on minority owned business in our

20:57

city. From the hottest new eateries to

20:59

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

21:02

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

21:05

shaping our city. Learn more about

21:07

the Experience Columbus Minority Owned

21:09

Business Program at experiencecolumbus.com

21:11

slash mbp. This

21:14

season your coffee orders are getting warmer and

21:16

your outfits are getting cozier. The world

21:19

keeps changing

21:20

and so does COVID-19. So,

21:22

if you're looking for a way to protect yourself against COVID-19,

21:24

you can get a COVID-19 shot

21:30

at the same visit as a flu shot if you're due

21:32

for

21:32

both as recommended by the CDC.

21:35

Talk to your health care provider to learn more and

21:37

schedule at vaccines.gov. And

21:39

don't forget to get extra cinnamon spice. Sponsored

21:42

by Pfizer and BioNTech. Coming to

21:44

you Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

21:47

It's the Community Catch-Up presented

21:49

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

21:51

to each episode for a spotlight

21:53

on minority owned business in our

21:56

city. From the hottest new eateries to

21:58

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

22:00

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

22:03

shaping our city. Learn more about

22:05

the Experience Columbus Minority Owned

22:07

Business Program at experiencecolumbus.com

22:10

slash mbp. Coming to you

22:13

Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays

22:15

it's the Community Catch-Up presented

22:17

by Experience Columbus. Tune in

22:19

to each episode for a spotlight

22:22

on minority owned business in our

22:24

city. From the hottest new eateries to

22:26

the trendiest fashion boutiques. Get

22:28

an inside look at the amazing entrepreneurs

22:31

shaping our city. Learn more about

22:33

the Experience Columbus Minority Owned

22:35

Business Program at experiencecolumbus.com

22:38

slash mbp.