0:04

Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left

0:06

Sets podcast. My guest this

0:08

week is a man who needs no introduction, so I won't

0:10

give one. We'll get the history. Le Or

0:12

Cone, who's present gig after a

0:15

long, illustrious career in the music

0:17

business, is the global head of

0:19

music for YouTube and Google. Le

0:21

Or good to have you here. Thank you, Bob.

0:24

I'm happy to be here. Let's start from

0:26

the beginning. Now, you were born

0:28

in New York, and that's correct, but

0:30

you lived in Israel, right my first three

0:32

years? Yes, okay, so you immediately

0:35

moved to Israel only to age three, and

0:37

then you moved to where I went, back to New York,

0:39

back to York. What'd your father do for a living, Well,

0:42

my dad is a was a

0:44

child psychiatrist, child psychiatrist,

0:47

and was there music in the house, enormous

0:50

amounts of music. So from New York

0:52

we moved to Los

0:55

Feless on the East Side. And what year you

0:57

moved to Las felis Las

0:59

Feless and probably sixty six.

1:02

And there's a lot

1:04

of music because my father was the first

1:06

person that connected the intercom

1:09

system to his record player, and

1:11

so he loved Dixieland

1:13

jazz and and chamber music.

1:15

So throughout the house all we

1:18

heard was Dixie Land, jazz and

1:20

chamber music. Now, but the mid sixties

1:22

the heyday of music in Los Angeles. So

1:24

were you an active record buyer

1:27

radio listener? Was a little kid

1:29

then little kid? Okay, so what

1:31

do you remember? My brothers were My

1:34

oldest brother was. My

1:36

parents were very active,

1:39

um, social people in

1:42

uh. We attended all the love ins

1:45

really, so they were hipsters. Um, they

1:47

weren't hipsters, they're more hippies. My

1:49

my father was instrumental with

1:51

the classroom without walls, the

1:53

community center, school and

1:56

Antioch and all of that stuff. He's

1:58

uh, you know. And

2:01

my mother was a real

2:03

active woman too. So we were

2:05

surrounded by a lot of love and

2:08

and we're politically active. We

2:10

try to elect McGovern and attended

2:13

all the love ins really, So

2:15

what were those experiences like because you

2:17

know a lot of people that was before the internet. People would

2:19

only read about that they didn't actually have the experience.

2:22

Well, it was very young, but um, a lot

2:24

of people and I remember,

2:27

I'm going some of the love ins happened

2:29

at Griffith Park. I don't know if you know that I

2:31

don't. Yeah, and uh,

2:33

um it was just it was an

2:35

extension. I actually grew up

2:38

in the real hotel, California. My

2:40

mother had what people would

2:43

refer to as a salon where

2:45

we had poetry readings, art

2:49

exhibitions, UM,

2:51

book fairs, uh

2:53

anything, political rallies. The

2:56

house was full of people all

2:58

the time, and we

3:00

used to house a lot of artists,

3:03

find painters that stayed in our home

3:05

sometimes upwards

3:07

of a decade. So

3:10

did you like that or not like that? I

3:12

love that. It's the only thing I knew. I loved

3:14

um the interaction between

3:17

you know, all sorts of people. It was.

3:19

It was strange at times, but um,

3:22

you know, that's what I knew. So and

3:24

then people always ask the children

3:26

of psychiatrists, it's that's also all you knew.

3:29

Do you have any feeling good, bad,

3:31

insights not insights? Well,

3:33

I think that I was very

3:36

lucky because, uh,

3:38

there was a lot of love in the house. My

3:41

father was a very high intellect. Um

3:44

still alive. No, Unfortunately we

3:47

didn't actually um

3:49

do sports together. So we're four boys,

3:52

and where are you in the hierarchy? I'm number two

3:55

and our father, um

3:58

son's activity is more

4:00

taking fits Is explained

4:03

to my audience case, they don't know what that's a sauna?

4:06

And um it was this in the Fairfax

4:08

area. No, this was at the

4:10

Jewish Community Center and lost Felis,

4:13

and he would tell us stories

4:15

Yiddish, mostly Yiddish stories. Do

4:17

you speak Yiddish? I don't you

4:20

understand it? Not? Not

4:22

much, but it's very descriptive

4:24

language, as you know. So um

4:26

that was that was our the extent of

4:28

the I don't know, we just um

4:31

my father. My father would constantly tell

4:33

stories which actually had a lesson or a

4:35

moral. Was that the type of story your fine would

4:38

tell? No, No, imaginative stories,

4:40

long and lustrative stories, beautiful

4:43

stories. He wasn't spending his

4:45

days trying to educate us. You know, we

4:47

were living life, and I think

4:50

living life in a pretty awesome

4:52

way. So you went to one

4:55

of these schools without walls yourself. No,

4:57

I was the black sheep of the family. I

5:00

actually, um was the first uh

5:03

test case of riddling. Um

5:05

My dad signed me up for it, and

5:07

that was a very hyperactive kid. And

5:10

all my brothers went there. But I went

5:12

to a more traditional school, thank god.

5:14

And do you still take riddle into this day. I

5:17

don't When did you stop taking the riddle

5:19

in just before going to college

5:22

and you think it helped? You think it was a big mistake. Oh

5:24

no, I think definitely it helped. Okay,

5:26

So you went to traditional school and

5:29

this was in Las VELAs, correct, John

5:31

Marshall High School. Okay,

5:33

And when did you music

5:36

really drove the culture back then? But when did you

5:38

start a personal affinity with music? So

5:40

what what's interesting is that all

5:42

my brothers were huge record collectors

5:46

and they had lots of

5:48

posters on the wall. I never collected

5:51

a record, nor did I have a poster on the

5:53

wall. And but

5:55

it was interesting because they were all locked

5:57

in their rooms with a very

6:00

particular style of music and

6:02

they didn't cross pollinate. I

6:04

was the one who was in each one each

6:07

of my brother's rooms listening to all

6:09

types of music, so I was open

6:12

for the experience. They were,

6:14

you know, always arguing which is the

6:16

you know, best artist, etcetera, etcetera,

6:18

etcetera. And that was that just

6:20

wasn't my thing. And what did you like back then?

6:23

Do you remember um? I

6:25

remember um being

6:27

moved by the Delta Blues.

6:30

My brother had a big thing going on

6:33

with the Delta Blues, Um, Freddie King,

6:35

I remember Janis chopping all

6:38

all of that um stuff. I had

6:41

my first kiss with Carol King Tapestry.

6:43

I mean, I don't know. It was um,

6:46

they're all over the place, and

6:48

so you go to high school

6:51

and you not what's your high

6:53

school experience? Like? Um,

6:57

My high school experience was pretty

7:00

good. It's you know, Los Felis

7:02

back then was a sleepy little village.

7:04

It was the pre strip

7:07

malls. You know, those four parking

7:10

spots with the po box and the Chinese

7:12

food which were all over Los

7:15

Angeles. You haven't been to Los Angeles, don't know, but from

7:17

one end of the spectrum, from the Valley Hallway,

7:19

Orange Country, endless strip malls. What what

7:21

a disaster of urban planning.

7:24

But I fortunately grew

7:26

up in Los Felis prior to um

7:29

strip malls. It was a sleepy little

7:31

village and you

7:33

know, we lived

7:35

basically in Griffith Park and

7:38

I don't know, it was wonderful. Um

7:41

upbringing, door always open.

7:44

Um. Were you in on any athletic teams

7:46

in high school? So? I was a quarterback

7:48

and I lost my elbow? Really

7:50

yeah, how did you lose your elbow? I

7:53

went to throw a long pass and I

7:55

got caught and had

7:57

several surgeries. And we,

8:00

of course, I said, lived in Griffith

8:02

Park, and I had a cast

8:04

on, and I picked up a set

8:06

of three dollar clubs at a garage

8:09

sale, and that summer played golf

8:11

one with one arm, and

8:13

then became Roosevelt. Um,

8:16

not Roosevelt, it was Coolidge.

8:18

I don't know if you remember Coolidge. It

8:20

was considered the number one pitching

8:22

put in the country.

8:25

Where was it? It was? You know, a

8:28

football field away from Roosevelt's.

8:31

Roosevelt is a part three across street from the Greek

8:33

Theater on one end of Griffith Park. I

8:36

I ended up playing there, but that summer

8:38

I played exclusively Coolidge. And

8:41

um, I became a great golfer after

8:43

that. How's your how's your elbow today? It's

8:45

a gimp elbow doesn't straighten out,

8:48

and UM, I don't know, probably

8:50

helps my golf game, who knows. And

8:53

so after high school

8:55

you go to directly to college. Um,

8:58

yes I did. And you went in Miami. Correct

9:00

any specific reason why he went to Miami?

9:03

Well, I uh

9:05

was reacquainted with my biological

9:07

father, who um

9:10

insisted that if he were

9:12

to pay for my college education. I

9:15

had to go east of the Mississippi

9:17

River. And it was three weeks

9:20

before UM school was going

9:22

to start, and he says, I'll get you into any

9:24

college. At the time, he

9:26

was living in Nigeria in Africa,

9:30

And so I threw a dart and

9:32

I hit Key West and three weeks

9:34

later I was at the University of Miami. I

9:36

was the only Southern California And it's like

9:39

absurd who

9:41

from southern California would ever

9:43

think about going to the University of Miami.

9:45

But man, did

9:47

I pick the right time. My timing is

9:50

always really good. Bum That's

9:52

the thing, you know. I went during the cocaine

9:54

cowboy era UM when

9:56

they did the thirty on thirty at

9:58

the U and we became

10:01

national champions UM many

10:03

years in a row, and it was just an

10:05

extraordinary time to be in Miami. It

10:07

was actually the only true

10:10

trauma I had was it

10:12

was the first time that I've ever bumped

10:14

into a JAP And

10:17

I remember, what do you explain to the audience,

10:19

what you mean a JAP is a Jewish

10:21

American prince or princess. And

10:24

I remember calling it's funny because how

10:26

do you feel as a Jew? And I'm a Jew. Two, you

10:28

can use the word jap. How about if a non

10:30

Jew uses the word term jab it doesn't

10:33

matter, Okay, I think it's very descriptive.

10:36

So I remember talking to

10:38

my mother and I said, Um,

10:42

there's these guys. They're a

10:44

really fancy cars. They listened to a

10:47

lot of Saturday

10:49

Night Fever and they

10:51

have uh star

10:54

of David's on their chest. And it just

10:56

I can't figure out what

10:59

planet they came from. And she

11:02

couldn't help me either, because we

11:05

came from California. All

11:07

our friends were basically

11:09

hippie Jewish families and so um,

11:13

that was an interesting dynamic

11:15

for me to witness that at

11:18

that stage of my life. And and

11:20

and and I don't know, it

11:22

was well, I know the similar experience. I grew

11:24

up in the suburbs fifty miles from New York City

11:27

in Connecticut, and I went to college

11:29

where uh the

11:31

people were prep school and you had these

11:33

very rich non Jews. It was very

11:35

I never ran into people like that before. So being

11:37

out irrelevant makes you more worldly.

11:40

Yeah, well, you know it

11:42

was interesting what what I say it was?

11:45

You know, for me, it

11:47

was a culture shock. Um,

11:50

But I actually became

11:52

very very close friends with

11:55

many of the Latin American Jewish

11:58

um Um kids that

12:00

sent there from South America

12:02

and Central America. And when pure

12:05

serendipity or there was an affinity or

12:07

why there's a there was a huge

12:10

community. Um. Many of the

12:12

Jewish families from Central and South

12:14

America sent their kids to the University

12:16

of Miami. So, you

12:18

know, I went to the hill Hel you

12:21

know, I met other people. So UM

12:24

we became very close friends and you maintain those

12:26

relationships. Not really no odd

12:30

okay, but just going back to the agree you're comfortable

12:32

talking about. You said your biological

12:34

father. Sure, can you explain

12:37

what was going on there? So my

12:39

parents UM divorced

12:42

when I was an infant. UM.

12:44

My parents met

12:47

liberating Israel, and

12:50

my father was one of the commanders

12:52

of the Battle of Haral, which

12:54

is the hills leading

12:57

up to Jerusalem.

12:59

My mother comes from a very very famous

13:01

family. My great grandfather

13:03

is one of the signers, one

13:06

of the pioneer families. Um

13:09

was the founder of Bank

13:11

Mizrachi. He was Rabbi

13:13

Cook's assistant. Uh.

13:16

He went to he

13:18

was invited before immigrating to

13:21

Palestine. Um to the

13:23

Basil conference with Hertzel.

13:26

Um he witnessed

13:28

Hertzel and invited him to his

13:31

factory in Poland. He

13:34

Um Hertzel came to

13:36

the factory, gave an incredible

13:39

speech, and the very next day my

13:42

um great great grandfather sold

13:44

the business and moved

13:47

from a home that had fifty

13:49

five bedrooms to barracks style

13:52

living in Jerusalem. Where was

13:54

Where was the home with fifty bedrooms

13:56

in Poland?

13:59

And was the epicenter of

14:02

the Golden era of Jewish life which

14:05

was in Poland. Um

14:07

in the fifteen hundreds, the

14:10

Um Polish king decided

14:14

that he was going to create a society

14:17

that was free of religious

14:19

persecution and everybody was able

14:21

to practice. That's why

14:24

UM Poland was such an epicenter

14:26

for Jewish culture. And

14:29

Um, you know that last couple

14:31

hundred years. And what year did your grandfather

14:34

then moved to Jerusalem around

14:37

nineteen fourteen fifteen,

14:39

very early on? Okay, And you were telling the story

14:41

of your biological thoughts. So my

14:43

biological father, UM

14:46

was didn't come from such

14:48

an incredible family, very

14:51

nice family, but UM

14:53

not distinguished like UM my

14:55

mother's family. And she didn't

14:57

want him to be in the UM

15:00

have a career in the army. So she

15:02

encouraged him to get

15:04

out of the pressure cooker and go

15:07

and study engineering in

15:09

New York City. And

15:12

they had a very difficult life together.

15:15

He really wanted to

15:18

continue his career

15:20

in the military. He

15:23

was a security guard, a janitor,

15:25

all while going to school. A lot

15:27

of pressure in the house

15:30

and he was very physical

15:33

and um my mother

15:35

just couldn't take it anymore. So I

15:37

decided to get

15:39

a divorce and that's how it happened.

15:42

I didn't see him for many many years. He

15:44

became a uh

15:47

AN engineer and then a

15:50

specialist in building

15:53

huge infrastructure, primarily

15:56

in third world countries, and

15:59

went on to have this big, very big

16:01

career. And though of the four

16:03

kids in the family, he's the father of how

16:05

many, um my eldest

16:08

and myself. And did he

16:10

get married again and have children again? He did?

16:13

And so you have step brothers, sisters.

16:15

I considered them all brothers and sisters.

16:18

I don't like that step thing. And you

16:20

have regular contact with them, yes, And

16:22

so he ultimately had his second

16:25

family where um they started

16:27

in Nigeria, then went to Switzerland.

16:30

Um and then to Israel. Okay,

16:32

so he was financially successful and

16:35

your ultimate feeling about him, you tell

16:37

the story of him paying for college. You did you

16:39

have how much contact with you and you feel good about

16:42

No? No, no, very little contact. Um

16:45

and a very rough guy. And

16:48

he always dangled money.

16:51

Um the rabbi they countant

16:54

the home. He had all sorts of rules

16:56

of how you were able to

16:58

inherit his money. And I

17:00

didn't play by any of the rules. And I

17:02

was the one only one cut out

17:04

of the will. Really did you know in

17:06

advance of his death that you were cut out of the will? I

17:09

didn't know in advance, but I had no interest

17:11

in it either. It would it

17:13

would. It was better for um

17:16

my brother and sister, my

17:18

two brothers and sister then

17:20

and I was fine with that.

17:23

Okay. So you go to the University of Miami.

17:26

You involved in music at all there? Yeah?

17:28

I was the director, the student

17:31

organizer of of concerts.

17:33

So okay, you say you listen

17:35

to music in your brother's rooms. What

17:37

motivated you to do that? And

17:40

you know I'm active, and you

17:44

know I don't actually know the story,

17:46

sorry, and so who do you remember some of the

17:48

acts you brought. Yeah, I brought Loggins and

17:50

Messina and I'm drawing

17:52

a blank. But I had a pretty good run

17:55

there. Now, University of Miami, even

17:57

to this day is has a very famous

17:59

music school. Were you involved with that at

18:01

all? Not at all? Okay, So then

18:03

you graduate from University of Miami. I

18:06

do after after the traditional four

18:08

years, and then what

18:10

was the next step, I

18:13

believe it or not. The next step was

18:15

I thought that I could be a shrimp

18:17

farmer in Ecuador. And

18:20

what did you know, somebody was a shrimp farmer in Ecuador.

18:23

So my roommate was the

18:25

grandson of the president of Equador. He

18:27

didn't speak a lick of English. And

18:30

I remember one year

18:32

is English started improving, he

18:35

told me about his uncle that

18:37

loved shrimps, and he

18:40

dug a ditch in his backyard and

18:42

and made some very good shrimps. And

18:45

another time he came back, he

18:47

said that little ditch in the backyard is

18:49

a couple of miles wide. And that was

18:51

the beginning of the shrimp farming industry.

18:54

And I thought, because the University

18:56

of Miami had a big

18:58

marine biology, you know center,

19:00

so I thought that I could actually do

19:03

business in Ecuador

19:05

and you know, be on the front end of that.

19:07

But that didn't work out very well. Did

19:10

you actually go to Ecuador and try I did? How

19:12

long did that last? Um? That last about

19:15

nine months? And it didn't work out because,

19:19

uh, just political situations.

19:21

It got funky down there. Okay,

19:23

So you leave Equador and then you go where I

19:26

go to Los Angeles, back

19:28

to my parents home, and my

19:30

mother helped organize me to

19:32

work for the National Bank of Israel

19:35

in Beverly Hills and

19:37

uh that's called bank Leumi. And

19:41

what did you do for Bankleyumi? I was a

19:43

financial analyst. I basically

19:46

counted uh,

19:48

Persian money

19:51

because the shaw had just fallen

19:53

and they were racing to Beverly Hills.

19:56

So the job sucked. I didn't

19:58

have a window and there

20:01

was no finance being done. It

20:03

was just a horrible job for me. And

20:05

you did that for how long? I did that for six

20:07

months? And you're living in your parents house. I

20:10

know, I had my own crib in

20:13

Beechwood or somewhere, and

20:15

that's that's a canyon up by Griffith

20:17

Park. So okay, so you're frustrated

20:19

with that, what's your next move? Well,

20:22

my friends were throwing lots of parties,

20:24

and this was the beginning of there's

20:27

some very famous clubs, power

20:29

Tools and Radio Radio

20:32

actually being the first one. And

20:35

they were throwing parties and

20:38

they were trying to encourage me to

20:40

come in and work with them. They were

20:42

having so much fun um,

20:44

and I just felt

20:47

like I shouldn't bounce around.

20:49

My mother got me this job. I was just

20:51

going to focus, and but I was miserable

20:54

and that ran its course. I just couldn't

20:56

do it anymore. So I said

20:58

I joined them, but I to think of some

21:01

other spend, some

21:03

something that I could do to

21:05

add value. I just didn't want to

21:08

ride along them. So and this was a full

21:10

time business for them. I

21:12

wouldn't say it's a full time business. It wasn't

21:15

for it. They did parties

21:17

sporadically um, but they were

21:20

making a lot of money at the time. And

21:23

I remember that I

21:25

was driving by the Stardust Ballroom

21:27

and I pulled over, where's the Stardust

21:30

Ballroom. It's an iconic

21:32

place. It's not there any longer, but it was on

21:34

Sunset and Western. It was one of the most

21:36

important venues in Los

21:39

Angeles. It's actually where

21:41

the beginning of the punk scene started. So

21:45

what happened was the owners

21:48

were umbought its sight unseen

21:51

from Korea. They're very, um

21:54

fabulously wealthy, and they're

21:56

trying to leave and they

21:58

got sold the bill of goods. You know, Hollywood

22:02

Um nightclub on Sunset

22:04

Boulevard. It was a seed is

22:07

the wrong side of the freeway. It wasn't the wrong

22:09

side of the freeway. So I

22:11

said to them, Hey, maybe I could

22:14

you know, paint and and and put

22:16

some shows in here. And they said there

22:20

they would be thrilled. And so

22:22

that's how we started. And so the

22:24

value you added to your friends was finding

22:26

the venue the venue. But I also

22:28

thought about because

22:32

Bobby, I'm

22:34

I'm basically a very curious person.

22:36

So there was these posters

22:39

all over Los Angeles, very big,

22:41

big posters, and it

22:43

was there were colorful and bright and

22:47

Uncle Jam's Army. Have you ever heard

22:49

of it? No? I didn't move to l A, you

22:52

know, until after this. Okay, So Uncle

22:54

Jam's Army was

22:57

had poster boards all over the place, but I

23:00

didn't know what it was at Sports Arena

23:02

and they gave me the time, So I ended up going

23:04

there and lo and behold.

23:07

It was, you know, at

23:09

the Civic Center, jam packed um

23:12

full of kids from South central l a um

23:16

listening to breakbeats. There

23:18

weren't even rappers at the time, and

23:22

it was exciting for me. And

23:24

then I kept coming back

23:26

to the parties, and then they started importing

23:30

um rappers from New York

23:32

um that had singles. But

23:35

because it was a

23:37

you know, city facility at eleven

23:39

o'clock, they had to shut their party

23:42

down and my party didn't

23:44

get started till midnight. So

23:46

I said, maybe I could hire some of

23:48

the talent that they had to

23:50

play a second gig in

23:52

Hollywood, And that's how I started

23:55

doing my thing. So what years this

23:57

this was too

24:00

So how often would you have a gig at the ballroom?

24:02

Um? There was There was a period of

24:05

time I had a regular

24:07

weekend party

24:11

Friday and Saturday in a little small

24:13

part of the ballroom. And

24:15

then every once in a while I'd imagine

24:18

a show, and you

24:21

know, so much bigger

24:23

ones like concerts, not

24:25

part I had parties and concerts,

24:27

and so the concerts who were what was some of the talent

24:29

for the concerts. So the one

24:31

that that really changed

24:34

my life was actually the

24:36

first one and it was Social Distortion

24:39

Circle, Jerks, fear fishbone

24:42

Red, Hot Chili Peppers and run

24:44

DMC's quite a bill. Yeah,

24:47

well they're all unsigned. Um

24:49

I borrowed like seven dollars

24:52

from my mom. I made thirty six

24:54

g s that night. How

24:56

was the capacity? Um? Capacity

24:59

was like, you

25:01

know, it's been a long time, some thinking,

25:04

three thousand people and

25:07

it was really super cool bomb it

25:09

was something just uh,

25:12

I still haven't

25:14

come down from that moment. So, okay,

25:16

you make thirty six g's in retrospect,

25:19

did you know what you're doing? Or you were just

25:21

lucky? Just lucky

25:23

because I put on the second show with

25:25

Houdini. I don't know if you know.

25:28

And um, I lost all that money

25:30

and then some and I had already

25:32

started spending that money. So

25:34

I was really not in a good shape.

25:37

And you were still at Bank Loomi or

25:39

you're done. No, I was done. And you still have

25:41

these partners. Your friends are just yourself. I

25:44

know they're they're my partner. Okay,

25:46

so how about security

25:49

and all those other issues. I didn't know anything

25:51

about any of that stuff. And did you have any

25:53

bad experiences? And no bad experience,

25:56

only love Okay, so you

25:58

made the only bad experience. This was

26:02

the fear that still drives me today

26:04

when I sat outside the venue thinking

26:07

that there was going to be a walk up

26:09

like there was at the run dy m C show that

26:11

never showed up. And it's a

26:14

pain that's below the heart and

26:16

above the stomach. And I still

26:19

can feel like right the second I could feel

26:21

that pain, and um,

26:25

you know, I've been running away from that pain ever

26:27

since. And at

26:29

this late date, why did the Houdini

26:31

show not work? I think

26:34

it was hubrius

26:36

that I

26:38

didn't ever reflect on

26:41

why the first show did and

26:45

I think it was um

26:47

much thinner it didn't. You know, the

26:50

run d m C with those Hollywood

26:53

bands was

26:55

a statement. It was um

26:57

a combination that

27:00

was built to succeed, and then

27:03

Houdini was I thought was going

27:05

to draft off of that success

27:07

and I didn't have really the package. Um

27:10

that made sense? So, UM,

27:14

you know, can I tell

27:16

you? So you lost money? But did you continue to promote

27:18

concerts? No? I was done. I

27:21

just done promotion doing

27:23

promotion. I have such

27:25

a great respect for promoters

27:28

because it's just really hard.

27:31

It's hard on every level

27:33

to do it right. It's it's really

27:35

hard on every level. But

27:38

with the run DMC show, the

27:41

biggest issue I had that night

27:44

was running U

27:47

refused to perform,

27:49

and I didn't

27:51

understand exactly what was going on. He

27:53

went on stage and then he left and

27:56

I went to talk to him and I said, what's the story.

27:58

He says, I'm sure

28:00

you saw it. They don't like me and they're coming to attack

28:03

me. And I didn't understand exactly what

28:05

he was referring to. And

28:08

then I realized all these

28:10

kids that were stage diving. They come

28:12

on the stage and they you know, dance

28:14

around him and then fling themselves on

28:16

And I said to him, listen, I

28:19

know this sounds strange, but

28:21

it's only a deep appreciation for

28:23

what you do. And he absolutely

28:26

looked at me and didn't believe me, and

28:29

I kept talking and

28:31

convincing him. I said, you have to

28:34

you have to trust me that this

28:36

is simply a an appreciation

28:39

for what you do. He says, Okay,

28:41

I'm I'm going to give it a try. He went back

28:43

on stage and for the rest

28:46

of his set he

28:48

helped fling little white boys

28:50

off the stage, and it was

28:53

cheer bliss for him. He had the best

28:55

time, and that's the person

28:58

who encouraged me to come to New

29:00

York. Stay

29:05

right here, we'll be back with more of my conversation

29:07

with Lear Cone, head of music for

29:09

YouTube and Google. Here on the Bob

29:11

left Sets podcast. This

29:14

is Bob left Sets. Had a great guest

29:17

this week, Leo Cone, head of music

29:19

for YouTube and Google. If you ever want to

29:21

see the guests as opposed to just listening,

29:24

or in the case of leor both he and me and

29:26

his Porsche Targa, follow and

29:28

tune in on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

29:31

for photos and videos. Now

29:34

more with Lee or Cohen. Okay,

29:38

so you're you're out of promotion.

29:40

How long before you go to New York? Immediately?

29:43

Bob immediately? And does he promised

29:45

you a gig? Or you just you know? So he

29:47

put me in touch with Um Russell, his

29:50

brother, his brother, and

29:53

Um Russell said, come

29:55

to New York. And you know, Um,

29:59

you know my brother, it speaks very highly

30:01

of you and and let's get it on.

30:03

So I sat in my parents

30:06

kitchen table and I said to them,

30:09

there is these people that talk instead

30:11

of sing, and they want me

30:14

to come to New York. And

30:16

my father stroked

30:18

his beard and

30:22

said, son, there's an instrument

30:24

called the contract. I'm certain

30:26

you have no no need for it,

30:29

but it's an instrument that

30:32

when things don't go so well,

30:34

you don't have to commit to memory what you agree

30:36

to. And my mom cut him off and said,

30:38

son, contract, no

30:41

contract. I think you should go, and

30:43

more importantly, I think you should try to

30:45

avoid work. If you could

30:48

find your passion, you

30:50

would be a very rich man. And she wasn't

30:52

referring to money. And

30:55

since my mama's boy, I listened to my

30:58

mom

31:00

and I went and

31:03

I've avoided work my whole life, thirty

31:05

seven years in this business. And so how

31:08

so what do you do you get to New York? My

31:11

mom told me, please call me when you get to

31:13

New York. At a

31:16

friend that went to the you and

31:18

transferred to Columbia University, and

31:20

he invited me to sleep on his floor.

31:23

He lived in a welfare hotel close

31:25

to Columbia University. And

31:29

I was so enthusiastic about being

31:32

in the music business that I went

31:34

straight to the office and

31:37

I tounded the door open, thinking

31:39

that there was going to be a marching band and

31:43

I was going to meet Russell because I never met

31:45

Russell. There

31:48

was no marching band, there was no Russell.

31:50

In fact, he never told anybody in the office,

31:53

and all three of them, we're

31:57

in deep depression. And the

31:59

reason why they were troubled was

32:02

run DMC was at JFK and

32:05

they were supposed to go on their first European

32:07

tour and their road manager was

32:09

on Cocaine Binge and

32:12

was the only one with the valid passport. And

32:15

I said, well, I have a valid passport. They said,

32:17

oh, can you get to JFK. So

32:20

I literally, instead of calling

32:22

my mom from New York, I called her from London

32:24

and I said, Mom, you're just not going to believe this. And

32:28

that's how I became the road manager for run

32:30

d m C. Okay, you

32:33

know nothing, zero road

32:35

managers and guy's got up, stay up twenty hours

32:37

a day. Here's all the problems. How did

32:39

you do in that gig? First

32:41

of all, these are the

32:44

most amazing guys

32:47

on the planet. They

32:50

were enthusiastic about sharing

32:52

what they had to with everybody.

32:55

They were responsible and

32:59

we were very ethan crew.

33:01

You know, our our band

33:04

was Jay's Needles and Records,

33:07

and so you know, I didn't have to

33:09

think about, you know, what what it

33:11

meant to have a writer and technicians

33:14

and everything like that. You know, we screwed

33:16

the need on and had

33:19

the records and and played gigs,

33:21

and you know, I was I'm

33:24

serious person, so I was focused

33:26

and I wanted to um do

33:29

a good job. And

33:31

I was very fortunate and lucky.

33:33

I told you my timing is pretty good. So

33:36

how long was that European tour? That

33:38

European tour was about a week and a half.

33:40

And then you come back to New York and then what in fact,

33:43

you know who picked me up and

33:46

he was driving the van, Roger

33:48

Rames. You're really

33:51

for those people don't know. Rod

33:54

Rames was a legendary record guy. He

33:56

had London Records. We've been the in Araam,

33:58

etcetera. Then went to I think

34:02

the chairman of and then he ultimately

34:04

was the chairman of Warner And if you see

34:06

the movie twenty four Hour Party people, there's

34:08

a great scene where he's trying to buy the assets of

34:11

Factory Records. I never I never

34:13

knew Roger was driving to Bay. I'll have to tell him

34:15

that the next time. He is an amazing

34:18

record man from Trinidad,

34:21

from Trinidad. And remember

34:23

Rundy m C was licensed

34:25

by London Records, so

34:29

that's that. Okay, So you're a week

34:31

and a half and you're back in New York. Yes,

34:33

and you're now you're back in the office. So they have worked for you.

34:35

Oh no, we were gigging all the time,

34:37

so you're now a road manage I'm a road manager,

34:40

but we're gigging on the weekends. So I

34:42

worked in the office, um

34:45

during the week doing what

34:48

well. We also represented

34:50

Curtis Blow Um. I

34:52

don't know. We're just you know, it's a

34:55

long time ago bomb, I'm

34:57

old. Okay, okay, So you're doing

34:59

this. How long do you play

35:01

the role of road manager? Three and a half

35:04

years road manager. Never missed a gig.

35:06

We never missed a gig, and once

35:08

we did five gigs in the night

35:11

in three different states. Never about

35:13

that. Never never missed a gig.

35:16

We were so mobile, unlike all

35:19

the kids these days that need their

35:22

whole block to join

35:24

them. We were run

35:27

DMC, jam Master j rest

35:29

in Peace miss him every day,

35:32

Runny Ray and myself. We

35:34

all carried our own luggage. There

35:36

was no high posting, and we got

35:39

it done and we we felt so

35:41

blessed and so fortunate and lucky.

35:43

Where were those five gigs? What three states were

35:45

they? They're like Virginia, d

35:47

c Um,

35:50

Carolina Area. That are

35:52

okay? So after those years you and you

35:54

were the road manager only for run DMC or

35:56

for Curtis Blow and these other people. Uh

35:59

no, I did um for the

36:01

Beastie Boys. Ended up I

36:04

ended up managing the Beastie Boys.

36:06

Um. Was this during the

36:09

license to Ill period or before or after

36:11

that? This was before and after and

36:14

and and during two and yes

36:16

during too? Okay,

36:18

dude, you have now that was six

36:21

licensed ill was like there was a certain

36:23

amount of buzz, but that was a gargantuan

36:26

record, far exceeding anybody's expectations.

36:28

Did you have a belief that it would be as big as it

36:31

was? Not? At all? Not at all.

36:33

I had no vision, zero

36:36

vision. I was the

36:38

in in the group of people.

36:40

I was the operator. So I

36:43

think the vision Rick

36:46

had and Russell had, and

36:48

then their heads were cast

36:51

it forwards. My head was straight down. The

36:54

Beastie Boys first tour, I

36:57

started them in Seattle and

37:00

four hundred seaters by the

37:02

time they got all the way down California

37:06

and to Texas. Um

37:08

they were an arena, so I switched.

37:10

I had to switch the venues that

37:13

that fast started four. And

37:15

then just to understand

37:17

the business arrangement, this

37:20

was deaf Jam at the time, and

37:22

this was rush management and def

37:24

Jam were you know, so

37:27

when you were the manager, you were ultimately working for Russell.

37:29

You're working separately, No, no, I was working for Russell.

37:32

Okay, so you do that, you have the great

37:34

success, and then def Jam

37:36

has a deal with Columbia correct, and

37:38

then um UM. You know, there

37:41

weren't too many people to put records out,

37:43

so um Rick and

37:47

Russell Um decided

37:49

to start a record company so they could put

37:52

out records that they wanted to put out. I

37:54

thought the sexier side of the business

37:57

was managing and so

38:00

um. Ironically to a degree it is. Again

38:02

it's a service business. You

38:05

say that with some drove

38:10

me out of the business. It's it's a license to starve

38:12

to boot for many people. So in any

38:14

event, they start this record company,

38:17

and your role in the record company is I

38:20

was a manager. The record

38:22

company was Russo and Wreck. So

38:24

what point do you move to the record company.

38:27

Well, remember Rick Leaves and Rick leaves

38:29

and starts

38:32

right, so it's

38:34

like really short time. And

38:36

then Russell actually moved to California

38:39

to make movies, so you know,

38:41

I just ended up having to do it,

38:44

so you ended up being It was scary. It was

38:46

very scary, don't don't get

38:49

it twisted. To be

38:52

the person that was guiding

38:55

a cultural brand like Deaf Chaan, especially

38:59

with Rick on and then Russell in

39:01

Hollywood, was scary. It was

39:03

really really scary. You remember how many acts you

39:05

had on the label? Um, we

39:07

didn't have that many acts. Um.

39:09

I started signing acts

39:12

and I signed one

39:15

stiff after another. I mean I couldn't.

39:17

I couldn't, honestly, I couldn't sign

39:19

an act that would sell. And

39:22

I was fortunately

39:25

it was like a little side in print that I

39:27

was signing this too. Um

39:29

it was r L Russia associated

39:32

label until

39:34

Rick and Russell unwound their

39:36

their situation. But man,

39:39

it was so scary. I honestly

39:42

could not sign worse acts.

39:44

It was. It was really, um, a

39:47

very difficult time in my life. And

39:50

then when does Russell come back and get involved?

39:52

Well, Russell comes back a few years

39:54

later, but at that moment I

39:56

caught my breath, and I really

39:59

had a much tighter aperture

40:02

of what was needed um to

40:04

be successful and to write the ship

40:06

and to get started again. And the

40:10

you know, my vision was blurry

40:12

and and with the Beasties

40:15

leaving Rick, leaving Russell, there's

40:18

a lot of um and I

40:21

just needed a tighter aperture. And

40:24

thank god that Red Man came

40:27

in the door and we signed him

40:29

and time for some action happened, and

40:32

it was the re birth of

40:34

Deaf Jam recordings. And the

40:37

interesting news is that

40:40

we also had Public Enemy

40:43

and Slick Rick in that transitional

40:46

period. So while I was signing

40:49

stiffs and you

40:51

know, cold his ice, um,

40:53

they still kept um the

40:55

shine of the label very

40:57

important and help

41:01

me find my breath and and gave

41:04

me cover. And at the time, are you making any

41:06

money? No? No, I had roommates

41:08

that I was thirty three years old, okay,

41:11

and so how does I was the mayor

41:13

of Alphabet City. The first

41:15

bit of money that we made was

41:18

one numbers okay, do

41:20

you remember? I remember so

41:23

so um. By then I

41:26

also had a huge stable

41:29

of artists. I was E. P. M. D

41:31

s Manager, Eric b and Rock Kim's manager,

41:34

Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince's manager.

41:37

Um it goes on and on, Steta Sonic,

41:39

Big Daddy Cane, you know, really

41:42

goes. There's no there was nothing moving

41:44

like I made the cold chilling deal. There's

41:47

nothing moving in wrap that

41:50

I wasn't wasn't a part of

41:52

at that time. But

41:54

still it wasn't enough money for me

41:57

to move out. It was still nascent

41:59

business. And then one

42:03

came along and uh, Jazzy

42:05

Jeff and the Fresh Prince started

42:08

printing money, like we'll explain

42:10

what the deal? What is the person who's

42:12

called is charged? So what was the offer?

42:15

The offers? You could speak to the act and they

42:17

would leave messages. And there

42:20

was months that Jazz Jeff and the

42:22

Fresh Prince we were making north of four d thousand

42:24

dollars a month. Wow. So it was

42:26

the key to constantly change the message or

42:28

to keep people on the line. Constantly change

42:31

the message, get people to call every day,

42:33

and what might the message be, I'm

42:35

old bomb. Okay, we'll

42:38

have to go back into the archives. So that's how you make

42:40

some real money. You get to move out De

42:42

Jam's at Colombia. It ends up

42:44

being purchased by PolyGram tell us that story.

42:47

You have to understand that there

42:49

was a beautiful

42:52

incubation period for us

42:55

at def Jam. What I mean by that is

42:58

there was much more demand, didn't

43:00

supply. The major labels

43:03

actually didn't get into signing

43:06

wrap backs because the

43:09

bosses of those labels made

43:12

their success through rock and roll, and

43:14

their kids were too young, and

43:17

so as far as rap

43:19

was concerned, it was just noisy music

43:22

um or noise, and

43:25

they didn't want to invent. They thought it was a fad.

43:28

They wanted no part of it,

43:32

and we started, you

43:34

know, building a real business.

43:38

What I mean by incubation is we

43:41

had no cloud we had no money,

43:45

we had no experience, and

43:48

Russell and I like getting high,

43:51

and just any

43:53

one of those was enough not to be able

43:55

to build a business. But because the

43:57

majors were so arrogant,

44:01

all they had to do was drive fifty blocks

44:04

and they would have seen that the demand

44:07

was blowing the roof

44:09

off of all the clubs uptown.

44:13

So, you know, seven years

44:15

goes by and now we get

44:17

a little bit of money, we get a little experience,

44:20

some clouds. Getting high is not

44:22

that important anymore, and

44:25

their kids are now starting to

44:27

grow up and Donnie Einer's

44:29

kid actually preferred

44:32

going to a public enemy show than the Bruce

44:34

Springsteen show. And that's when Donnie

44:36

said, oh my god, I'm out

44:38

of position. And

44:41

so I had a very fragile group.

44:44

They were called third Base. You ever

44:46

heard of them, of course, Okay, So they

44:48

didn't really like each other that much, and

44:50

they were very, very fragile. UM

44:53

Search is a very inquisitive person

44:55

and very tasty person and

44:59

Donnie can vinced them to start

45:01

a production company. And

45:04

that's put too much tension on the group.

45:06

And that was behind my back. That's

45:08

my partner and

45:11

at Columbia Columbia Records, and

45:13

so that's how NAS got

45:15

signed to Columbia Records through MC

45:18

search. Oh yeah yeah, so

45:21

um that put a lot of search and

45:23

it was Pete and Pete

45:25

writes about baseball or something these days, and

45:28

it put a lot of tension on the band, put a lot

45:31

of tension on me. And

45:33

you know, because of

45:35

our deal structure, we were deeply

45:38

in the red and to the

45:40

tune of nineteen million dollars,

45:42

but it was used to it was at a joint venture

45:44

or you still own your assets or you

45:46

know, no No, we didn't own our assets.

45:50

They actually owned the assets. Um.

45:52

We had a UM some

45:55

action. UM,

45:57

it's embarrassing to tell

45:59

you what that action is. It's

46:01

it's less than what bands

46:04

are getting signed for today. But

46:07

were they made you were nineteen million of the red Have they

46:09

made money on the deal? Oh, of course they

46:11

made money. But UM,

46:15

they wanted to go full tilt boogie in

46:17

wrap and they thought they can do it themselves.

46:20

And they thought that the only

46:22

barrier was their focus and money.

46:24

And they're both focused and they're going

46:27

to invest. And UM.

46:29

They gave me the option to um

46:32

by the red balance back and

46:35

then get out of the building. And

46:38

it wasn't really an option. They were they were

46:40

flinging us out of the building. And

46:43

it was scary because I didn't

46:45

let anybody at at the company know

46:47

because there would have been hugely distracting

46:50

and difficult for people. So I

46:52

remember every going trying to find

46:55

record companies to partner with,

46:57

and um the only one was Alan

46:59

Levy and PolyGram and

47:02

actually he gave us six

47:05

million for that piece, and

47:09

UM, so we gave them nineteen

47:11

And it was the first little bit of capital

47:13

that Russell and I got and

47:15

um we actually

47:19

was again very good timing. I

47:22

actually shipped Regulate

47:24

at Columbia and they weren't paying

47:26

attention and that

47:29

went on to sell four million albums. So

47:31

my first def Jam

47:33

PolyGram experience was

47:36

warranty Regulated sold

47:38

four million albums, very very

47:41

thrilled and a lone Leavi was thrilled

47:44

and excited, and we had a very

47:46

interesting deal with him, very

47:49

very good deal, very

47:51

forward looking deal because he

47:53

believed that rap catalog was

47:56

going to be a huge,

47:58

huge opportunity nitty, especially

48:01

in the multiple of of the CD business.

48:04

So um, it was really

48:07

great timing for us and it was beautiful

48:09

and at that time def GM

48:12

is operating in what part of PolyGram Island

48:15

Island and then they ultimately

48:17

roll it up into I D j um

48:19

No it was p L g Um

48:23

with Rick Dabas and Johnny

48:25

Barbs, um

48:27

Um Peter cup Key and

48:30

then it was really a difficult time because

48:33

Alan Levy wanted to buy

48:35

the business and Russell wanted to

48:37

sell and offered fifty million

48:39

dollars and I said I'm not interested in

48:42

that, and I had a block on it,

48:44

and Russell was

48:47

very upset and he was

48:50

our lawyer was making

48:53

him very scared debt because

48:55

of me blocking UM.

48:58

He wasn't going to end up with any money.

49:00

And it was a very stressful period

49:03

for the two of us. And

49:05

I just believed that we could

49:08

um improved the multiple. And

49:11

I remember that Russell was

49:13

pounding me so hard. And it

49:16

was actually Danny Goldberg that went

49:18

around my back to my my company

49:20

and told him that I'm selling the company.

49:23

This is what he's running Mercury when he was

49:25

running Mercury, but he was very close to a lone

49:27

Livy and I fell into depression

49:30

and I UM

49:33

at the time, my wife said, your health

49:36

is much more important than you

49:38

know this type of stuff. Just

49:40

sell the company. And I agreed to sell it.

49:43

And then four days later the

49:46

board rejected UM

49:49

that fifty million dollar deal. And

49:53

UM they rejected because two

49:55

days earlier they met secretly,

49:58

this guy from Philip s met secretly

50:00

with Edgar Broffman and

50:04

because of that they

50:06

didn't want any transactions to

50:08

happen. So again great timing,

50:11

and they were talking about buying the Universe Emerging

50:13

with Universal assets and no they're no

50:16

Universal was

50:17

was buying PolyGram. Now

50:20

remember the reason why Phillips

50:22

was selling PolyGram as they

50:24

invented the CD. So

50:26

they're the reasons why they gave

50:29

the green light to Alan Levy because

50:31

they discovered that the CD was

50:33

a powerful opportunity, but it

50:35

was also the perfect master, so

50:38

they rode the upside. They

50:40

allowed him to buy Island

50:43

UM and UM motown.

50:47

I mean hundreds and hundreds of UM

50:49

hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, massive.

50:52

No one's ever seen prices like that because

50:55

they knew the conversion from

50:57

tape to CD was going to be a windfall.

51:00

But they also knew that it

51:02

was the perfect master. So they

51:04

allowed Allan to build this over

51:07

a decade and then sold it

51:09

from underneath him. You were do you believe they were

51:11

totally conscious that the Internet was coming

51:13

and they had a perfect They

51:17

made a fortune. They sold to Edgar

51:19

for you know, coasted twelve billion dollars

51:22

And the only problem

51:25

is that Edgar Universal

51:28

bought PolyGram,

51:30

but the largest market share

51:32

in North America was a little

51:35

company called Death Chamber Recordings, and

51:37

that deal didn't go through, and

51:40

so Doug had bought Doug

51:42

Morris. Doug Morris had bought this UM

51:45

was brought along UM by Edgar

51:48

and we had just dropped

51:51

UM Job Rule, DMX

51:53

and jay z All in the month of

51:55

December. Everybody told me, you can never

51:57

release a record in December. Thecember

52:00

is off limits because the retailers are too

52:02

focused on stocking.

52:06

It's taboo to do that. And

52:09

I felt like UM

52:11

parents started becoming

52:14

less and less under UM

52:16

a knowledgeable of what to give as

52:18

a gift of music to their children, so

52:21

they gave them cash. And the closure

52:23

I got to Christmas, UM, the better

52:26

I was going to fare. So you

52:28

literally delayed the release knowing that the kids

52:30

would blow the cash. And it was all

52:32

during the transition

52:35

and the due diligence of PolyGram

52:37

and the Universal merger. So

52:39

remember Island, Mercury,

52:43

A and M. All of those executives

52:45

were frozen because they didn't know what

52:48

was happening. Everybody was frozen. But I

52:50

was driving my multiple and

52:53

so all of PolyGram was frozen.

52:55

Who's going to be the boss? Who's going to survive

52:58

all that swirl is happening? And

53:01

I dropped three very

53:04

important and influential albums

53:06

that I'm proud of UM in the

53:08

month of December at that moment,

53:10

and it was UM a stunning

53:12

moment. Okay, so the deal goes

53:14

through it where does that leave Jeff Jam?

53:17

Um? That leaves def Jam in the

53:19

catbird seat? And unfortunately,

53:23

UM, we have a natural clock on

53:25

our deal and there was time

53:27

for for UM

53:30

the deal to two. I

53:32

tried to fight it even then. Thank god I

53:34

didn't fight it because the UM

53:36

the month that we sold was

53:39

the first month of the decline for the

53:42

last eighteen years. Okay,

53:44

so what was that price? I'm

53:47

sure it's public a big number. It

53:49

was three million dollars for the total

53:52

and Russia and I owned UM,

53:55

so that's a good paycheck. It

53:58

was fabulous. It was just

54:02

it was amazing. It was amazing. Listen,

54:05

UM, you know it's

54:09

that type of that type of money has

54:11

no context to me because I don't live like

54:13

that. So UM, So where is the

54:15

money today? Um?

54:18

The money is with my ex wife, UM,

54:21

Um with me. It's I mean, it's invested.

54:25

Yeah, it's an investors certainly. How

54:27

much is real assets? How much the stock market? For

54:29

most stock I would say, UM,

54:31

real assets are UM

54:36

and is UM

54:39

more in the equities? And

54:41

then is

54:43

is more UM liquid and stuff

54:46

like that? And how active are you

54:48

in managing that money? I'm

54:50

not very active. I suck at I

54:53

suck at that. You hired people, yes,

54:55

and you're smart, smarter people

54:57

than myself. So how do you end that's

54:59

by away. That's the secret of my success

55:02

is surround yourself with super

55:05

dough people, give them a lot of

55:07

sunlight and water and just

55:10

hug it out. So how

55:12

do you end up running? I d J Well?

55:16

I had the most insane month.

55:20

Um, you know, I

55:23

sold the company for a big number and

55:27

part of that um,

55:29

when you sell a company, you're obliged

55:32

to work for them, um,

55:34

and I was obliged to work

55:36

for them. So they asked me to look

55:39

over Mercury Island and

55:41

left cham and I remember,

55:45

you know, on a white board playing

55:47

around with the names, and I

55:49

didn't know who. I couldn't

55:51

trace the steps back

55:54

to someone with

55:56

Mercury, so I couldn't find the heartbeat

55:59

there and I was but I was able

56:01

to find Chris Blackwell and

56:03

the heartbeat there that's island records.

56:06

So I decided to call

56:08

it island def jam, and I, um,

56:11

def jam island doesn't sound as

56:13

good as Island def jam,

56:16

and the I d J sounds

56:18

really dope. Okay, And

56:21

to what because black Well ultimately

56:23

leaves. But when you start how involved

56:25

is Blackwell? Blackwell

56:29

has already left the building.

56:32

So now you're many many many years okay,

56:34

you're you're running at lock Stock and Barrel Well.

56:38

I told you I surround myself with super

56:40

dope people. Okay. So in

56:42

your tenure at I d J, sir,

56:45

what what did you learn? I

56:47

learned that the entrepreneurialism

56:50

of rap music and the co

56:52

mingling of

56:55

of artists and the

56:57

UM determination to mind

57:00

audiences and connect them with the

57:03

artists is very, very

57:05

powerful. And just that, you

57:08

know, I felt like I could do

57:10

anything. And that

57:13

runs its course, and you ultimately end

57:15

up at Warner, but even in a bigger position, bigger

57:18

title, And what do you learn in your tenure

57:20

at White at Warner? My

57:23

tenure at Warner is

57:25

that it was the first time I've ever come

57:28

across or had an

57:30

experience with private equity

57:32

people. So I had no context

57:35

that they bought and

57:37

sold, and I

57:39

hadn't simply no context that they

57:41

bought and had a four

57:44

year horizon. So

57:46

had I known that, I probably wouldn't have

57:48

left UM to take

57:50

the job to take the job because

57:53

it was too distracting.

57:55

I don't want I didn't like change

57:58

in that type of way. I like change

58:01

in other types of way, but not in that type

58:03

of way. You mean in terms of the

58:05

ultimate sale point, Yeah, I don't. I don't

58:07

like I don't like change,

58:10

financial change. I like structural

58:13

change. I like change, but

58:15

not um um financial

58:18

change. People. So when you're at Warner, to

58:20

what degree in the back of your mind are you here?

58:22

Are you feeling that pressure? Hey, I gotta

58:24

make the numbers. We're gonna do, We're gonna sell I

58:27

I um. I didn't pay attention

58:29

to that. I was focused in other things.

58:32

And the only time where

58:34

it crested against me was

58:37

when they decided to sell

58:39

it, and I had

58:41

to meet with the thirty

58:44

odd bidders over

58:46

and over and over and over again, and

58:48

I got further and further away from the music

58:51

and further away from the artist, and

58:54

I felt like we were doing a stunning job.

58:56

I mean two, you

58:58

know it, Lectura and Atlantic

59:01

were in really tough positions. Warner

59:04

was living on its past, and so

59:07

I felt merging um

59:09

a lecture in Atlantic. Together we

59:13

found our heartbeat and and

59:15

then I was working on on the Warner

59:17

Brothers situation, and you know,

59:19

we we I think really

59:22

started the three sixty business.

59:26

That was a very important part

59:28

of my strategy and

59:31

I was very proud of it. So and

59:34

you know, and then to get sit swiped

59:36

into having to talk to financial

59:40

people about you know, a transaction

59:43

was a buzz kill. It was very difficult for me.

59:48

We'll return to this conversation with Lear

59:51

Cone, head of music for YouTube and

59:53

Google. Right after this. This

59:56

is Bob left Sett. Do you like hearing

59:58

from the heavies. I love talking to

1:00:00

them. And that's exactly what I'll be doing at my

1:00:03

Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara

1:00:05

at the end of April. Take your Wallflower

1:00:07

roll to the next level by actually meeting

1:00:09

the players, maneuvering, manipulating the chessboard.

1:00:12

Go to Music Media Summit dot comfert

1:00:14

tickets and more information and

1:00:17

now more with Lee your Cone.

1:00:21

So it ends and you start three hundred,

1:00:24

Yes, and you have a big hit with Feddiwab

1:00:26

Yes. So what you learn at

1:00:28

three hundred? I learned at three

1:00:30

hundred that the barrier of

1:00:33

entry I had a hunch at

1:00:36

Warner between subscription and

1:00:38

advertising that

1:00:41

there is going to be a huge sea change.

1:00:43

The ability to build audience

1:00:45

and to identify an audience UM

1:00:48

without having to go through the expense

1:00:51

of a physical product was

1:00:54

a liberation for UM

1:00:57

young people to start lay

1:01:00

bules and to start getting

1:01:02

into the game. And I had a hunch that

1:01:05

they couldn't keep me out of the party,

1:01:07

and so I cobbled together

1:01:09

a little bit of money and I went to work,

1:01:11

and lo and behold, I realized

1:01:14

that the

1:01:16

true remaining barrier entry

1:01:19

is simply a little bit of capital, not

1:01:21

a lot of it. And you could actually

1:01:24

make a lot of hay. So if someone were to

1:01:26

start today, how much capital do they need? It's

1:01:29

all different. It all depends.

1:01:31

I started with fifteen million, a little

1:01:33

little sum of money. I heard that

1:01:36

l a just raise sent you

1:01:38

know, it was a different thing, I

1:01:41

believe you know, we have a

1:01:43

three hundred over thirty employees

1:01:45

now, UM, but you're you're

1:01:47

not involved with three hundred anymore. But I'm

1:01:50

the largest shareholder, so you're still a shareholder.

1:01:52

Yes, okay, So you have the success

1:01:54

with fiftie rop. Can you tell us any more about that? What

1:01:57

do you want to know? How do you find that HiT's

1:02:00

HiT's beautiful he was, so did you

1:02:02

find him? The record was already done. The record was

1:02:04

already done. Um. He

1:02:08

is a very interesting melodic

1:02:10

rapper, UM and

1:02:12

it was just his time and we signed

1:02:14

him. So that's a music

1:02:17

business bomb. Okay, So

1:02:19

you know today where there's so much noise in the

1:02:21

channel. Although the success of

1:02:24

his records a couple of years back, what

1:02:26

made he What did you do to make the record successful?

1:02:29

He certainly had to hit record Without that you're dead in

1:02:31

the water. Well,

1:02:33

we engaged an audience. We

1:02:36

UM went to our friends at Spotify, they

1:02:39

supported us. When to our friends at Apple

1:02:41

they supported us. What did that support look like

1:02:43

to support whether it's UM real

1:02:46

Estate and app or real Estate

1:02:48

and Playlists, or

1:02:50

or video UM

1:02:53

at YouTube, UM

1:02:55

the dsp s or the these

1:02:57

platforms. UM were happy

1:02:59

to see us, and they were happy to support

1:03:03

an independent label and independent

1:03:05

artist. And we also,

1:03:09

you know, got the record on the radio.

1:03:12

And so what can I

1:03:14

tell you? It's not really it's not magical.

1:03:16

It's a lot of hard work, it's a lot of talking

1:03:19

to people, it's a lot of saying, like

1:03:21

what you do every once in a while you

1:03:24

go out on the limb and say this artist

1:03:26

is really incredible, and

1:03:28

you put your reputation on the line

1:03:31

and you shoot the flare up and

1:03:34

people, um pay

1:03:36

attention, give it a shot, and when

1:03:38

they give it a shot, it starts working. And

1:03:41

and that's how well I guess one of the I agree with

1:03:43

everything you're saying. But one of the fascinating things is

1:03:45

there was a record two Christmases

1:03:48

ago. The end of it was a hit

1:03:50

everywhere in the world. Rag and Bone Man Human

1:03:53

never made it in America, and I have

1:03:55

to, I mean, my fault with the label let the record

1:03:57

down. Do you have any ideas why

1:04:00

I don't want to um

1:04:03

um a Pine on something I'm not

1:04:05

an expert at so I

1:04:07

don't know whether he

1:04:10

was focused on Australia

1:04:12

at the time when they needed him to show

1:04:14

up in places. You know, Um,

1:04:17

when you have a worldwide hit. The

1:04:20

interesting thing is you can't clone yourself

1:04:22

and you need physical support of

1:04:24

a record. So um,

1:04:28

I couldn't. I couldn't the Pine on it.

1:04:30

I I don't know. You know, Colombia is

1:04:32

a really good label. Okay, So let's go back

1:04:34

to three. Three D is still active at this

1:04:36

point, very active Okay,

1:04:39

how do you end up at YouTube? I

1:04:42

ended up at YouTube because

1:04:46

um Robert

1:04:48

Kinson called me up and asked me

1:04:50

if I could He's he's the big

1:04:52

boss YouTube, and he

1:04:54

asked if I

1:04:57

could surface him

1:05:00

some candidates to be the head

1:05:02

of music and that it was

1:05:05

time for that category

1:05:07

to have someone that

1:05:09

woke up every day specifically

1:05:12

focused on building that

1:05:14

business. And I surfaced

1:05:17

him a couple of people over

1:05:19

the you know, four months

1:05:21

spanning. Then

1:05:24

he calls me out of the blue and says,

1:05:27

you know, he used this expression,

1:05:29

you're my You're my Dick. I

1:05:32

had no idea what he meant. He's I said

1:05:34

what he says, Dick Cheney,

1:05:37

and I still didn't don't to this day, I

1:05:39

don't really know what he's referring to, but the

1:05:42

he says, I love the candidates, but I

1:05:44

prefer you doing the job. And I told

1:05:46

him I have zero interest in the job,

1:05:50

and I was having too much fun at three hundred.

1:05:53

I think three hundred's going to be worth you

1:05:55

know, half a billion dollars

1:05:57

in five years. I

1:06:00

really believe that this

1:06:03

is the era. Just mark

1:06:06

my words, this is going to be the

1:06:08

biggest gold rush

1:06:10

ever in media and

1:06:13

it's going to be around recorded music. It

1:06:16

can never be activated until

1:06:18

the Impressario rooms again. And

1:06:22

that's the critical gating factor.

1:06:24

All everything is ready for

1:06:26

them, and then Impressario

1:06:29

is the unemployable. The

1:06:31

Chris Blackwells of this generation,

1:06:33

deomrtiganst those

1:06:36

that um,

1:06:38

you know, have a very specific

1:06:40

point of view who know how to um

1:06:43

engage with talent and they

1:06:46

could build huge businesses. Once again,

1:06:48

I think the environment is right

1:06:50

for that. But going back to YouTube,

1:06:53

I really, you know, I

1:06:55

was having hits and

1:06:58

I had no interest in doing the job. It's

1:07:00

like, um,

1:07:02

it wasn't the right time, and

1:07:05

they kept being persistent and

1:07:07

kept asking me. And

1:07:09

then it was my partner Kevin Laws who

1:07:11

said to me, you know, you

1:07:15

always talk about your biggest fear about

1:07:17

the music business is the

1:07:19

high concentration of distribution.

1:07:23

So if

1:07:25

you actually were worked

1:07:27

with Google and YouTube and

1:07:30

help them work with the labels

1:07:32

and help build another distribution

1:07:35

channel that's healthy and

1:07:37

another player, um, you will bring

1:07:40

diversity to distribution and you

1:07:42

could be a great gift back to an

1:07:44

industry that you really love and

1:07:46

that really resonated to me. So um,

1:07:50

this is my gift back to the industry.

1:07:52

If I could get Google and YouTube

1:07:55

to help bring diversity to distribution,

1:07:58

I think with four the contributors,

1:08:01

the value of the business will

1:08:03

creep back to the labels and to the

1:08:05

artists. If it's only two, we're

1:08:08

in really bad shape. It would be a

1:08:10

very bad day for creation. So

1:08:13

okay, so what is the vision for you to

1:08:15

now that you have this job. The vision is

1:08:18

to work very closely with the

1:08:20

labels. So prior to

1:08:22

me getting there, they were mostly

1:08:24

in negotiating entity. They

1:08:26

negotiated with the corporate centers

1:08:29

and they would go away and

1:08:32

come back and negotiate three years later.

1:08:35

And there is no infrastructure

1:08:38

of people facing off

1:08:40

with the labels. The people that actually

1:08:43

signed the acts, marketing

1:08:45

and delivered the acts. They were only facing

1:08:47

off with the corporate people. And

1:08:50

you know, in the last twenty years, what do you

1:08:52

do get rid of a corporate person or any

1:08:54

in our person and our person corporate

1:08:57

person, sorry, corporate. The corporate

1:09:00

entities of all these companies shrunk

1:09:02

massively. Um. The

1:09:05

the true power is with the

1:09:07

labels. Okay, everybody knows that

1:09:09

that, um Um. The labels

1:09:12

are the ones with the power. But

1:09:14

not only the power, they're they're the ones

1:09:16

that are in the trenches. And

1:09:19

so what's happened in the past

1:09:22

is you know when YouTube

1:09:25

or Google were went to negotiate,

1:09:28

you know, it was their Super Bowl to

1:09:30

Oh, they're going to negotiate against the Google

1:09:32

team, and I'm

1:09:35

not really that interested in that. I actually

1:09:38

want to go back to back with the companies,

1:09:40

with the labels. So we built an infrastructure

1:09:43

UM to understand what the labels priorities

1:09:47

are and to help break acts.

1:09:50

And to me, that's one of

1:09:52

the most important things that we

1:09:54

could do at YouTube and

1:09:56

Google is to understand what's

1:09:58

important to the labels and

1:10:01

and to the artist and to the management

1:10:03

community, and to

1:10:05

help UM break some acts.

1:10:08

That's one thing. The second thing is

1:10:11

to convert our funnel. So

1:10:15

really the YouTube Google people

1:10:18

have been very raw. They don't understand

1:10:20

why they're so vilified, and

1:10:23

they felt like they built this

1:10:26

incredible ecosystem on

1:10:28

a global scale UM

1:10:30

to have people engaged

1:10:32

with media and pay with their eyeballs,

1:10:35

and instead of getting

1:10:38

a pad in the back, they

1:10:40

got vilified because that

1:10:42

was in their UM the industry's

1:10:44

mind, siphoning opportunity

1:10:47

from subscription, which was still

1:10:49

nascent UM. But growing. And

1:10:53

so one of the things that I told um

1:10:56

them and it didn't take a lot of convincing.

1:10:58

They were already believing that so um,

1:11:01

that their funnel can convert into subscription.

1:11:04

There are people in that funnel that have

1:11:06

a job that are leaned into

1:11:08

music that should pay a

1:11:10

subscription um um.

1:11:13

And and that's what will

1:11:16

happen. So between promotion

1:11:18

and helping the labels and

1:11:21

the artist community um break

1:11:23

artists, and then converting

1:11:25

our funnels. So it's simply not just

1:11:28

advertising that it's also

1:11:31

so your goal is to make

1:11:34

it a subscription business. No,

1:11:36

No, my goal is to add

1:11:39

a subscription business

1:11:42

on top of an advertising business, um

1:11:45

bob. This industries

1:11:48

growth is going to come from

1:11:51

both advertising and subscription.

1:11:54

I know everybody's drunk on subscription

1:11:56

and it's really a nice thing and

1:11:58

it's great, but when

1:12:00

you talk about the world, they're

1:12:03

gonna be way more many more people

1:12:05

paying with their eyeballs than paying is

1:12:07

a monthly subscription. Okay,

1:12:10

that's going to be fact um.

1:12:13

And so we want to play in both. Um.

1:12:16

Okay. Since you brought up industry criticism,

1:12:19

what do you say to the industry

1:12:21

that says the split is not good enough

1:12:23

on YouTube. The split is great,

1:12:27

the pie will grow. It's

1:12:29

just it's the same argument with

1:12:31

spot that they had with Spotify

1:12:34

at the beginning. Everybody was screaming about

1:12:36

Spotify. Wasn't the split as you could

1:12:38

see um from their public

1:12:41

filing that the split is actually

1:12:44

enormous. It was the

1:12:46

size of the pie. And so

1:12:49

um, you know, we're talking

1:12:51

about hundreds and hundreds of billions of

1:12:53

dollars that is still stuck in traditional

1:12:56

media. That will flow

1:12:58

to the digital um

1:13:00

players, and that and that money

1:13:02

will create to the labels

1:13:05

and as the as more and more

1:13:07

countries come online, um,

1:13:10

that probably will be getting bigger. The

1:13:12

growth in advertising is

1:13:15

out of control, Bob, out

1:13:18

of control. Okay, so before

1:13:20

they blink, I know everybody's all

1:13:23

geeked over subscription, but

1:13:25

don't forget how much money is going

1:13:27

to be made in advertising. So when you say

1:13:30

the money stuck in traditional media, can

1:13:32

you amplify that a little bit like television

1:13:35

and radio. So you're talking about advertising

1:13:38

advertising money. The Levy broke

1:13:40

in America, but in

1:13:42

other countries it's still they're still

1:13:44

stuck in traditional media,

1:13:46

but it's starting to break there too.

1:13:48

I mean, everybody has kids.

1:13:51

They see how they they digest

1:13:53

media. They don't digest media on

1:13:56

an appointment, you know, on

1:13:58

um you know, a regular

1:14:01

way. It's on demand. So

1:14:03

the other complaint that people have in

1:14:05

the industry is about takedown

1:14:08

notices, that they can't issue

1:14:10

one takedown notice, but

1:14:12

they're constantly playing whack a mole with videos

1:14:14

on YouTube. Bob,

1:14:17

I invite all of those people

1:14:20

on my dime to go to Zurich to

1:14:22

our campus um that is

1:14:25

dedicated to content i D. Bob,

1:14:28

when I tell you they've built a

1:14:31

world class content i D system

1:14:34

that is um

1:14:36

um um failed proof that's

1:14:39

the case. Please, who's

1:14:42

ever listening, you yourself,

1:14:45

come to Zurich and please

1:14:48

meet all the engineers that have built

1:14:50

a first class content I D system.

1:14:53

So you think at this point in time, if I issue

1:14:55

one takedown notice, that should take

1:14:57

down all the pirate copies of the song. It's

1:15:00

correct, Okay, it's correct. So you think

1:15:02

it's the purpose the people who are saying, oh

1:15:04

I have to constantly issue takedown notices.

1:15:06

You don't think that's true. No, No, at

1:15:09

least it's not as true as it used to be.

1:15:12

So you don't believe the law needs to be changed that

1:15:14

this is a business solution. Oh,

1:15:16

absolutely, this is a business solution.

1:15:18

Okay, let's go back to how you're going to help the labels.

1:15:21

What have you done and what can you do

1:15:24

to help a label promote a record?

1:15:27

So, Bob, did you know that eight

1:15:30

of all of watch time on YouTube

1:15:33

is internal recommendation? Engine?

1:15:36

I did not know that. Shocking, isn't that? When

1:15:39

I first started, I thought it was absolutely

1:15:42

the reverse was

1:15:44

searched, and then maybe some

1:15:46

other remnant was um

1:15:49

promoted. But no, of

1:15:52

all of watch time, billions

1:15:55

of hours of watch time is

1:15:57

internal recommendation. You

1:15:59

get lost in YouTube. I

1:16:01

wouldn't say I get lost. I'm on YouTube constantly,

1:16:04

but but you don't. You don't go, you

1:16:06

don't um um dial something

1:16:08

up. And then all of a sudden, the next thing

1:16:11

they first of all, I'm sophisticate enough

1:16:13

to know I switched off auto play, and

1:16:15

I got much more email and recommendations

1:16:18

of people. So I'm on YouTube many times a day.

1:16:20

I'm not the average person. Well, if

1:16:22

you were the average person, you would realize

1:16:25

that it would start to get

1:16:27

to know you and start servicing

1:16:31

serving you um entertainment

1:16:33

that you're most likely going

1:16:36

to appreciate. I certainly get some of that on the right hand

1:16:38

side. So yeah, so I'm

1:16:42

so if I could surface

1:16:46

to the um

1:16:50

UM the priorities of the labels as

1:16:53

an input to the algorithm,

1:16:55

UM, I could probably do a really good

1:16:58

service. Is that active today? That's

1:17:00

sacred? Okay, So you

1:17:02

you go to a label, they have a priority,

1:17:05

you believe the priority is valid, and

1:17:07

you will get into the YouTube system to make sure it's

1:17:09

put in front of X number of eyeballs. That's

1:17:11

sacred. Now it's in other

1:17:14

streaming services. They look

1:17:16

at issues of save, they look at how

1:17:18

how long. All of that is important.

1:17:20

And so you look at all that data. All of that is

1:17:22

important. Yes, all of that well,

1:17:24

okay, so the biggest YouTube hit of the last

1:17:27

year, one of the biggest is the Desposito.

1:17:30

Was that purely organic? Or did YouTube help

1:17:33

know you? You want to hear something really

1:17:35

interesting? I try to reverse

1:17:37

engineer that. And the

1:17:39

beginning of that

1:17:41

party was that the manager

1:17:44

bought a hundred thousand dollars

1:17:46

worth of true view ads. Explain

1:17:49

to my audience what those are. A true view add

1:17:52

is a new format of advertising

1:17:54

there. You know, Google

1:17:56

is constantly iterating um

1:17:59

at around advertising, and

1:18:02

the um UM

1:18:04

that actually got

1:18:08

the right eyeballs engaged,

1:18:11

and the right eyeballs started um

1:18:14

affecting the algorithm, and then it spread

1:18:16

like wildfire. Okay,

1:18:19

a little slower. He bought the ads,

1:18:22

and the ads translated into

1:18:24

view and then obviously the ads were highly

1:18:27

targeted, and

1:18:30

once he got people engaged, it

1:18:33

started building a wildfire. And that's what

1:18:35

happened. Okay, So if someone had a

1:18:38

do you think that's replicable at this point in time?

1:18:40

UM? I don't you know. Desposito was

1:18:43

a fabulous um

1:18:45

record and video record and video,

1:18:48

But I do believe that the

1:18:52

digital world allows you to

1:18:54

be way more targeted in

1:18:56

your audience. UM.

1:19:00

We are learning a lot. Like,

1:19:02

for example, we are now

1:19:04

thinking about related

1:19:07

artists and how

1:19:09

we could help the labels surface

1:19:13

their content UM

1:19:17

by them choosing

1:19:20

what the related artists would

1:19:23

be, that audience would

1:19:25

be and putting that that

1:19:28

content after those artists.

1:19:30

Is that a personal choice or algorithmic? Um,

1:19:34

it's both. It's

1:19:37

both now, it's

1:19:39

inputs. If we go back a couple of

1:19:41

years, it was not uncommon

1:19:44

for a hit track on YouTube

1:19:46

to have many more views than streams

1:19:48

on Spotify frequently, that's

1:19:50

the reverse. Now, Okay,

1:19:53

so what is the future of video?

1:19:57

I a YouTube clip and

1:19:59

how importan and there's that breaking an act.

1:20:01

I think, um, context is I

1:20:03

think we're in an audio visual world. Actually,

1:20:07

Chuck d is the one who says this perfectly.

1:20:10

Uh who I encourage

1:20:12

you. He's got an incredible story. He would

1:20:14

be a great person to do a podcast

1:20:16

with. But we used

1:20:18

to be in an audio only world, and I

1:20:21

think we're in an audio visual world. So

1:20:23

I think video brings context, and

1:20:26

I think we're searching for context.

1:20:28

You know, the Levy broke, right there

1:20:30

used to be very tightly curated

1:20:34

ways that you were touched by

1:20:36

music, and now, um,

1:20:39

the Levy broke, and now there's

1:20:41

many, many, many many bands. So

1:20:43

now we need a certain amount of curation

1:20:46

and some more context. I couldn't agree

1:20:48

more. It's a charity of choice. And yeah,

1:20:50

and I think that the

1:20:53

you know, three point four point oh

1:20:56

version of the Internet,

1:20:59

we would start seeing more curation

1:21:02

and video is important to help

1:21:04

provide context as well. Okay,

1:21:08

now we live in an era where

1:21:11

tracks are less dominant in the culture

1:21:13

than they ever were before. It's really spread out.

1:21:15

You know, you go back to when we grew up.

1:21:18

The hit track literally everybody in society now

1:21:20

where if we talk about the number one track, a

1:21:22

fewer people know that. But I'm leading

1:21:24

up to something different. Why is hip

1:21:27

hop the most dominant sound today?

1:21:29

You know, I've been watching you raised

1:21:31

the banner of hip hop. I don't

1:21:33

think it was always you weren't

1:21:35

a flag bearer of of hip

1:21:37

hop. I've always thought that hip hop

1:21:39

was big for the last

1:21:42

you know, but it's

1:21:44

fantic twenty years. It was gigantic

1:21:46

then too. I

1:21:49

mean, I mean, you know, I don't

1:21:51

actually know. I guess maybe I live

1:21:53

in my own little bubble. I I remember

1:21:56

Eminem selling ten million plus

1:21:58

albums. I mean that was and Chop Liver.

1:22:00

I've been feeling hip hop's

1:22:03

dominance for a long time. It's

1:22:05

scary too, because you

1:22:07

know, it's now multigenerational

1:22:09

it's used to be. I was always

1:22:12

worried about the multi

1:22:14

generational aspect. Does my son

1:22:17

really want to share his records

1:22:19

with me? Where is the battle cry?

1:22:21

That isn't the debate between father

1:22:24

and son about that is not

1:22:26

music. That's just a bunch of crap. We're

1:22:29

bumping the same music right now. My

1:22:32

son's twenty three. Okay, what does he do?

1:22:35

He's in an R three. He's

1:22:37

a really remarkable music

1:22:39

person. Okay, But getting back to this hip

1:22:41

hop thing. I don't want to say

1:22:43

that hip hop wasn't big. But if

1:22:45

you go on Spotify, which I believe is the most

1:22:48

accurate chart today because of consumption,

1:22:50

out of the Spotify Top fifty in the United

1:22:52

States, thirty five or forty

1:22:55

tracks or hip hop tracks, I don't really pay attention

1:22:57

to things like that bomb. I mean,

1:23:00

if you look, I don't. Honestly, I

1:23:02

don't pay attention to it. I remember when

1:23:05

I was invited to the

1:23:07

first World Congress of

1:23:09

PolyGram or something like that, and

1:23:11

I was flying from London to Seville

1:23:14

and I was next to the head lawyer

1:23:16

of PolyGram and he said, so,

1:23:19

where is hip hop going? I

1:23:21

said, I don't know. He says, what,

1:23:23

what do we pay you millions millions

1:23:25

of dollars for? And I said,

1:23:27

I hope you don't pay me millions of dollars.

1:23:29

I've never weather veined music.

1:23:32

I never made any declarations you

1:23:35

that's for you to do. I hope

1:23:37

that I've created an environment that

1:23:40

some kid aspires to be on

1:23:42

my label, that will be the person

1:23:44

that will ultimately change your direction as

1:23:46

safe place for

1:23:49

an artist to change the world.

1:23:51

And so when you talk about hip

1:23:53

hop dominance and that you're just making,

1:23:56

you're just it's you're calling its end

1:23:58

right now, you're you know,

1:24:00

and after

1:24:03

something is big, something gets small.

1:24:05

I don't know. I just I don't pay

1:24:07

attention to talk about

1:24:09

some of these issues. I believe

1:24:11

rock is dead. Now, you're not predicting the

1:24:13

future. You want to weigh in on that until

1:24:15

it isn't, Bob, until it

1:24:18

isn't about jazz? Is jazz dead? No?

1:24:20

Hell no, are you kidding me? Jazz

1:24:23

is dead. No people say

1:24:26

jazz is dead, Bob, Bob. Only only

1:24:30

people that are trying to weather

1:24:32

vane and put numbers two things,

1:24:35

um that need to declare

1:24:37

something like I said, that's your gig.

1:24:40

I don't think I've never been a part of

1:24:42

that. I go to jazz clubs right

1:24:44

now. Okay, So how much do you

1:24:46

play music? Now? Me

1:24:48

play music a lot, and you play old stuff,

1:24:51

new stuff, all stuff new stuff. And

1:24:54

if you you know, the old Desert Island question had

1:24:56

to take two or three records

1:24:58

or albums to the Desert Island. What were the You

1:25:00

have to be a Zeppelin record for you

1:25:03

have to why I thought it would be a hip

1:25:05

hop record? I just honest, Well, you said I get two

1:25:07

or three? Man, of course Zeppelin,

1:25:10

which was on Atlantic. Where do you have a specific

1:25:12

Zeppelin record you want to weigh in on too? Okay,

1:25:15

led Zeppelin too, Yeah, Okay, Living

1:25:17

Loving, Thank you a whole lot of Okay,

1:25:19

two more records. I would say, they

1:25:21

have to be a public enemy record for me.

1:25:24

Okay, can Chuck? Do you have another hit? For

1:25:27

sure? For sure? But the

1:25:29

definition of a hit is something

1:25:32

that I've always had trouble

1:25:34

with. What is a hit? It

1:25:36

allows you to go on tour and

1:25:38

engage ring the bell and engage

1:25:41

your audience, and it allows you

1:25:44

to have enough um

1:25:46

fanfare for people to go

1:25:49

and put their hard earned money to

1:25:51

see you live and to

1:25:54

bring a community together. I don't know what

1:25:56

the definition of a hit is these days. Well, I would

1:25:58

say there's two types of hit. What is a hit

1:26:01

The track is fantastic, whether it's spreads or

1:26:03

not. Then there's the commercial hit

1:26:05

where it has some level of ubiquity. Yeah,

1:26:08

So that's what I what I mean you meant

1:26:11

you meant the ladder, yes, and the other the

1:26:13

ladder most likely not

1:26:15

because Chuck has never woke

1:26:18

He never woke up trying to do that. You

1:26:20

have to wake up sometimes trying

1:26:22

to do that right to get ubiquity.

1:26:25

Um, Chuck never woke up. Do you How

1:26:27

big a factor you believe agism is in hip

1:26:30

hop? Of course ages has

1:26:32

something to do with it, but it's more about

1:26:34

a little bit of a secret. The moment

1:26:37

from obscurity to celebrity has

1:26:39

the highest velocity. That's

1:26:42

where the most hey

1:26:44

can get made. At a certain moment,

1:26:47

after a certain period of time, there's

1:26:49

a certain expectation. You don't get any

1:26:51

dap from your friends, turning

1:26:54

them onto another jay Z Right. So

1:26:57

the velocity is much

1:26:59

big earlier on a

1:27:01

career, which has nothing to do with

1:27:04

age. It's the little secret that becomes

1:27:06

a much bigger secret. Period of

1:27:08

time of velocity I think is And

1:27:10

since we're playing this game, what's the third album?

1:27:14

I'm gonna have to get back to you, Bob. That's

1:27:16

fine with me. It's a very dear album. Okay, So

1:27:20

at this point in time, what about you, Bump,

1:27:23

Well, I always say if I was in a desert island,

1:27:25

I would bring and this is kind of a humorous

1:27:28

thing. I would say a C d C Back in

1:27:30

Black and Joni Mitchell Blue and

1:27:32

one is a very noisy record, and one

1:27:34

is a very quiet record, illustrating that my taste

1:27:36

are somewhat broad. Now it's funny because

1:27:39

taste were broad, then they narrowed,

1:27:41

and then in the Internet era they broadened

1:27:43

again. Beautiful, okay, which I think is

1:27:45

great. I mean especially I think one of the most fascinating

1:27:48

things is the amount of hip hop there is in country

1:27:50

music. Even people brought up

1:27:52

in you know, rural areas, are

1:27:54

are you know, as opposed to urban areas. Well.

1:27:56

Luke Lewis and I started a company

1:27:59

called Lost high Way. I don't know if you're fantastic.

1:28:02

So the reason why we founded

1:28:04

that record um company was

1:28:07

that we believed that

1:28:10

the society of country was so rigid.

1:28:12

But these kids, even

1:28:14

though they respected the great

1:28:16

songwriting and culture of

1:28:19

country, they also loved Chris Cobain

1:28:21

and Public Enemy, and

1:28:23

we were interested in those artists.

1:28:26

We didn't get all the way to our mission,

1:28:28

but we had, you know, Ryan Adams and

1:28:31

Lucinda and Brother where Art

1:28:33

Dow and stuff like that. But we were

1:28:35

going to get to the hip hop country flavored

1:28:38

was Jamie Johnson on the Lost Hollyby. Okay,

1:28:43

So in the time you have left on

1:28:46

the planet, what would you like to achieve? Oh?

1:28:50

Wow, that's a beautiful question. UM.

1:28:53

I would love to continue,

1:28:57

you know, parenting and being a great

1:29:01

father to my children and great

1:29:04

husband to my wife. Um

1:29:07

uh, contributor to my community.

1:29:10

UM. I feel in

1:29:13

the middle of my mission of bring diversity

1:29:15

to distribution, and and helping

1:29:18

the labels and and and Google

1:29:20

and YouTube collaborate and work

1:29:22

together. UM signed

1:29:24

some more dope bass acts that

1:29:27

changed the world, and

1:29:29

and UM

1:29:32

i'd like to keep contributing

1:29:35

UM in a very positive way.

1:29:38

I don't know. I think we've

1:29:40

really covered it here. We've got your history to your president.

1:29:43

Is there anything that we didn't discuss that you feel

1:29:45

a need to go to a shipload of things

1:29:47

we didn't discuss, But UM,

1:29:49

I appreciate your time. You know, this

1:29:51

has been wonderful. You've been very open.

1:29:54

I certainly learned things about you that I don't

1:29:56

know, and I think we've humanized you for people

1:29:58

who just know you. There's maybe a art board,

1:30:00

they make fun of you and Hits magazine. You're

1:30:02

working at YouTube. This has been absolutely

1:30:04

wonderful. Thank you.

1:30:06

You're so welcome. You know, I wake up every

1:30:08

morning and I know who I am.

1:30:11

You know, and the people who actually

1:30:13

know me know who I am.

1:30:16

And I never really concentrated or

1:30:18

really cared too much about what other

1:30:21

people thought about me, especially those

1:30:23

that don't know who I am so well.

1:30:25

I know from previous discussions when there have been people

1:30:27

shooting arrows at you, you you managed

1:30:30

to compartmentalize that, not let that bother

1:30:32

you. It's always stuck with me because so many people

1:30:34

are saying, oh, saying but not you. Yeah,

1:30:36

you stayed with the mission. No I want

1:30:39

to You know, I remember when I

1:30:41

was in elementary school and

1:30:43

because of my funky name and

1:30:45

my accent. Where

1:30:47

does the accent come from? It's a it's

1:30:49

a guttural m Hebrew accent

1:30:52

mixed with speech therapy. They try

1:30:54

to get rid of my art. You know, I

1:30:57

literally walked around this earth

1:30:59

without an are four year and a half Webbitt

1:31:02

won in elementary school.

1:31:04

They thought that some you know, well

1:31:06

funded during the Reagan era or something

1:31:08

like that. Um every

1:31:10

Wednesday, they came in and got

1:31:13

me for speech therapy, and they thought they could

1:31:15

fix my Hebrew are I kept

1:31:17

telling them it's a Hebrew

1:31:19

accent. Um. You know, it's not only

1:31:22

lived in Israel for three years. But

1:31:24

if you if you understand Hebrew,

1:31:26

it's a gut or r and that's

1:31:29

the hardest thing to change. So

1:31:31

anyhow, I remember um

1:31:34

wanting to play baseball after school,

1:31:37

and because of my name and because of

1:31:39

my accent, they always picked me last.

1:31:42

And I never got mad, but I chased

1:31:44

down every fucking ball. Um

1:31:47

that I just like converting people

1:31:49

based on my work, not by you

1:31:52

know, all that stuff. So

1:31:54

one of the many lessons you've gotten from New York calling

1:31:56

today. Once again, thanks for being on

1:31:58

the Bob left Sets podcast. Good luck,

1:32:00

Bob, thank you. That

1:32:05

wraps up this week's episode of the Bob

1:32:07

left Sets podcast, recorded at

1:32:09

the tune In studios here in Venice, California.

1:32:12

I hope you like listening to this conversation

1:32:14

with le Or. I thought it was phenomenal.

1:32:17

I'd love to get your feedback and know if the same

1:32:19

is true for you. Email me at Bob at

1:32:22

left sets dot com. Until next

1:32:24

time, I'm Bob left sets,