0:00

All right . Well , it is 10

0:02

am sharp , so I know folks are . I see

0:04

some folks popping in and out , so we'll

0:06

let folks join in as we start the discussion

0:08

around the AI in the news . Like

0:11

I said , nick is here to record and we'll have that

0:14

after the fact for folks who maybe

0:16

joined a little bit later . But yeah

0:20

, so to go ahead and get started . Yeah

0:28

, so to go ahead and get started . I'd like to discuss , as we usually do

0:30

, an AI in the news article , and the latest one that just

0:32

popped up on my news feed actually was a LinkedIn article titled Musicians'

0:35

Pen Warning on the AI Era

0:37

. Artists

0:57

, including Kayu Perry and Pearl Jam , have signed an open letter to digital platforms

0:59

, tech companies and AI developers warning them to cease the use of artificial

1:01

intelligence to infringe upon and devalue the rights of human artists . Although

1:03

this newsletter is fairly new , but something that I found

1:05

really interesting was actually one of the main

1:07

comments on this , which was from

1:10

someone who said they don't want to hear songs created

1:13

by AI . You know , the emotional response

1:15

to a song is deeply human form

1:17

of connection for them , and I just thought that that was really

1:20

interesting , because I think a lot of times

1:22

when , looking at art , we

1:24

really connect with the artist and the story behind

1:26

it . There is some level of humanism

1:28

that happens there . That was a really interesting

1:30

call out and something to think

1:33

about as we move towards , you know

1:35

, the world of AI , or reinvesting

1:37

our time and money into

1:39

pieces of art

1:41

or creations that have been created

1:44

by humans or by , you

1:47

know , by AI , and I think , we both with

1:49

our time and money and energy . So

1:51

I just thought that was an interesting call out and just

1:53

goes to show that I think AI could be a useful

1:55

tool in the process of creation , but

1:57

in the end , there is , you know , a huge

1:59

human element that I know a lot of people really

2:02

seek out , and so I just thought that that was , yeah

2:04

, something really interesting , and I'd love to hear , um

2:07

, steve and Jay , if you have any , any

2:09

thoughts on that

2:12

.

2:13

I'll go first , jay . So , um

2:15

, so , yes , thank you , tally . Great , uh

2:18

great point that you're making and that was a

2:20

really good um article

2:22

that you shared was

2:29

a really good article that you shared . My personal opinion is I have grown up in the

2:31

technology space . I love innovation , I love the progress

2:33

, but with progress comes sacrifice

2:36

and the challenge . With

2:38

AI , especially in respect

2:42

of the art form , we're at

2:44

risk of losing that authenticity

2:46

, the human element , and

2:49

especially when it comes to art . That's

2:51

so kind of critical and

2:54

it's interesting to me to kind of watch the

2:56

evolution of the marketplace

2:58

and the response that

3:00

we're seeing . As you just mentioned

3:03

, I think that it is essential

3:05

that we establish ground

3:07

rules , if you will , because

3:10

I would hate to I personally would

3:13

hate to lose that human

3:15

element , and I think there is something

3:17

to be said

3:20

about the comments that you were

3:22

calling out with regard to how

3:26

imperative the human element

3:28

is . So

3:31

, anyway , those are my thoughts , jay . Do you have any

3:33

thoughts ?

3:36

Hi everyone , that's a great

3:38

start to our conversation . Actually , you

3:41

know , how do we still keep the human at

3:43

the center of all this AI revolution

3:46

? Right , and let's begin

3:48

with art , because I know last

3:50

year , there was a lot of , you

3:53

know , controversy and conversation

3:55

about the use of AI and the

3:57

creation of art

4:00

. Like images , right , like Dolly and all of these other

4:02

tools that were being used to generate art . Like images , right , like Dolly , and all of

4:04

these other tools that were being used to

4:06

generate art like replicate

4:09

the Mona Lisa . Can you imagine

4:11

what it

4:13

would take for someone to recreate

4:16

that and have the same emotional

4:19

experience of actually seeing

4:22

the real Mona Lisa ? Have

4:24

you ever been to a museum of

4:27

art and stared at any of

4:29

these wonderful pieces of art

4:31

? Like ? I'm a big fan of Van Gogh

4:33

and I love his Sunflower

4:35

series . There is an emotional

4:38

connection to art when

4:40

you're actually experiencing

4:43

it in

4:45

the form it was meant to be experienced

4:48

, and so for me , when

4:50

it comes to music as well . I

4:52

was just thinking about this when Tali posed

4:54

the question earlier today . You

4:56

know , think about listening to Beyonce's

4:59

Texas Hold'em , which is the

5:02

Cowboy Carter album that

5:04

she released , which is like hot

5:06

fire , right , it's

5:08

really one of those genre-changing

5:13

albums in

5:15

our lifetime . And

5:18

hearing Beyonce

5:21

, you know , in the AI version

5:23

of that , I don't think I'd like

5:25

that . So , yeah , no

5:27

, that's yeah

5:32

, Sorry , sorry , Tali .

5:33

I totally agree , Jay , the the for

5:36

me and I and I would . I

5:39

think this is probably the case with

5:41

most people , to your point , Jay . When

5:43

you stare probably the case

5:45

with most people , to your point , Jay when you're staring , when you're looking at art in in

5:47

whatever form , or listening to art , it's not just the output

5:50

, like that that's , it's amazing

5:52

, oh , how beautiful , or it may

5:54

sound , or look . For me

5:56

it's also the connection that we have with

5:58

the artist and the thought

6:01

process that I go through around

6:03

, the process that they went through to create

6:06

that art and

6:09

to achieve that final output

6:11

. I think that's a big part

6:14

of the mystique , a big

6:16

part of the value that we receive

6:19

as

6:22

the audience . So anyway

6:24

, sorry , Tali , I cut youia cut you off no , agreed

6:26

.

6:26

I love both those points and I do like the idea

6:28

of you know , there is innately um

6:31

, especially with art , something really that

6:34

speaks to the human , you know , soul

6:36

, so to speak , and human connection , and I think

6:38

that's going to tie directly into

6:40

um , the theme of today's discussion

6:42

. So I think that was a great way to kick this off

6:44

, as we let some folks join here , but

6:46

just to introduce the

6:49

speakers on this call . So instead

6:51

of , as you'll see here , steve Navarro

6:54

, who is Mindwork Machine's general manager and

6:56

chief revenue officer , will be taking the place

6:58

of Tim , who's our usual co-host

7:00

for those who listen

7:02

. Frequently he's unable to join today

7:05

, so Steve will be the fun takeover co-host for those who listen . Frequently . He's unable to join today , so Steve will be the fun

7:07

takeover co-host there . And

7:09

then we have our guest speaker

7:12

to delve into

7:14

today's topic , which is AI

7:16

for HR and digital transformation

7:18

. Our guest speaker today is

7:20

Jay Palocki and

7:22

she is the CEO and Chief Gecko

7:25

at HR Geckos . And , jay , I'm actually

7:27

going to turn it over to you to share

7:30

a little bit about HR

7:32

Geckos and just your experience

7:35

with AI to date and just give a little bit of background

7:38

on HR Geckos

7:41

and your experience in the AI

7:44

world and

7:46

you know your experience in the AI world Well

7:50

.

7:50

Thank you again , tali , and Tim and Steve , for having

7:52

me on today's Mind Over Machines Boring

7:55

AI Show . I love the

7:57

title of your show . As

8:00

the founder and chief gecko at

8:02

HR Geckos , I've

8:04

been an HR professional for

8:07

over 25 years now and

8:10

you know I've worked in all industries

8:13

across the board in different roles

8:15

and when

8:17

I first encountered

8:19

AI , believe it or not

8:21

, it was not , you

8:24

know , something that I would have thought

8:26

of AI or something

8:28

that was related to machine

8:30

learning or natural language processing

8:32

in 2011

8:40

or 2012

8:43

. It was IBM's

8:45

Watson and he

8:47

came up to me in the expo , or

8:50

it . I call him he because

8:52

he called himself Millennia and Watson

8:55

, but you

8:57

know , and it asked me

8:59

what my favorite

9:01

song was and

9:03

I gave it a title

9:06

from Bollywood , which is

9:08

a Hindi song

9:10

, and it brought

9:12

it up and played it right there in

9:15

the expo hall for me from

9:17

its database . That

9:20

was my very first encounter . I mean , I've

9:22

had , you know , knowledge of AI

9:25

growing up . You know I heard of the

9:27

chess champion Gary Kasparov

9:29

being beaten by IBM's DeepMind

9:32

very early on when

9:34

I was a teenager and I

9:37

never paid too much attention to it because you

9:39

know you think of AI as sci-fi

9:41

, believe it or not . I think

9:43

a lot of us still think of it as something

9:46

out of a sci-fi movie . And

9:48

through these experiences

9:51

, you know , as I've built HR Geckos

9:53

, which is built for HR

9:55

it is an AI-powered

9:58

HR help desk with a chatbot

10:00

I've always , you

10:02

know , thought about how

10:04

do we keep the human touch at the focus

10:07

of all this tech we're building . You

10:10

know we have a lot of technology coming

10:12

at us , not just in HR

10:14

, but in different functions of the business

10:16

today , and

10:18

AI has definitely taken

10:20

over our conscience and

10:22

conscious . You

10:24

know it's

10:27

everywhere you go

10:29

. Talk to your little nephew . They're

10:31

playing these Minecraft and

10:33

Roblox games that are all kind of

10:35

AI driven , which , you know , sometimes

10:38

scares me and sometimes I'm like

10:40

amazed at the things they learn . I'm like

10:42

amazed at the things they learn . But yeah

10:45

, so this , you know , the road to AI

10:47

for me has been full

10:49

of learning , amazement , fear

10:52

, a mixed bag

10:54

of emotions .

10:58

But I'm loving it so far . I love that and I really

11:00

relate to that as well . I think AI , you

11:02

know and that's I think you call this out as well

11:04

the purpose of our show , the Boring AI

11:06

Show to bring it down to a quote-unquote , boring

11:09

or you

11:15

know real level . I think AI is such a large umbrella term . It can mean so many different

11:17

things to so many different people , especially how it's talked about in the media , and

11:19

so I think bringing it down to a digestible

11:21

way is really important

11:24

, just to you know , as we all

11:26

enter this AI era , just to make

11:28

sure that we're staying focused on

11:30

what's actually possible and practical . And

11:33

so , on that note , I'd love to hear you

11:36

know , jay , how you've seen AI

11:39

transform the HR space , transform

11:46

the HR space , you know . I think that's a great place to kick things

11:48

off , because every organization at some level , has some sort

11:50

of HR team , and even outside of that , I think that

11:52

there's a lot of examples of how

11:55

AI applies to HR that could apply to

11:57

other teams , for folks listening

11:59

. So I'd love to hear , yeah , some more practical

12:01

applications and how you've seen HR transform

12:04

that space or AI transform

12:06

that space .

12:08

Great question , callie , because

12:10

you know HR

12:12

is not one of the functions in a business

12:15

that's thought of as

12:18

something that is digitizable , or

12:20

you know we

12:23

do not have a technology first approach

12:25

when it comes to the HR function . All

12:27

of that's changing rapidly as

12:30

we speak . I

12:33

see AI transforming our

12:35

function in three different ways . You

12:38

know , when it comes to public

12:41

relations , hr has a bad

12:43

rep in every organization

12:45

I worked at and it still does . But

12:49

I think we can use AI

12:51

to drive our

12:53

PR efforts better . You

12:56

know it can help us draft communication

13:00

to our employee populations

13:02

in a very personalized manner

13:04

. It

13:09

can help us with candidate and talent acquisition strategies by personalizing the candidate

13:11

experiences and the onboarding experiences

13:14

of new hires , as well , as , you

13:16

know , the employee experience in general of

13:19

folks who are in the organization . Two

13:23

, it's definitely changing the nature

13:25

of every job . You

13:27

know you hear about Amazon

13:30

employing these robots to do

13:33

a lot of the jobs in the warehouse

13:35

and as HR professionals

13:38

, we are tasked with studying how

13:40

. You know this human

13:42

robot kind of collaboration

13:44

impacts the way we work in

13:46

a workplace and , believe

13:49

it or not , even ChatGPT

13:51

impacts how

13:53

employees are relating

13:56

to their jobs today right , how some

13:58

of them , of course , are not totally

14:00

honest or

14:03

making sure their employers know they're

14:05

using some of these tools to be more

14:07

productive or efficient , because there's

14:09

still that fear about using this or their

14:11

organizations have not permitted them

14:14

to use these new technologies . But you

14:16

know there's this huge change that's coming in

14:18

every job , including HR . You

14:20

know that fear as well as the

14:22

amazing , you know

14:24

productivity gains that we are having with

14:26

these kind of tools and technology . And

14:37

thirdly , it's the chatbot revolution

14:40

to different employee populations

14:42

, how we can manage our customer

14:44

service and marketing

14:46

teams , as

14:49

well as our customers , and how

14:51

personalized all of that is

14:53

getting , with using tools

14:56

like chatbots in communication

14:58

and informing our workforce

15:00

of key announcements or

15:02

keeping them abreast of policy changes

15:05

or , you know , even helping

15:07

them gain access to information in

15:09

a very transparent and

15:12

easy and simplified manner

15:14

. So that's definitely

15:16

the top three things that I think

15:19

of when I'm looking at how AI

15:21

is transforming HR today

15:23

.

15:24

I love that and I know at Mind

15:26

of Machines we actually have an internal

15:28

chatbot that we use and that's really been

15:30

beneficial from you know

15:33

, personalization , content

15:35

creation , personalized content creation

15:37

to internal policy

15:40

inquiries , yeah

15:42

, and things of that nature . So I love that call out . I

15:49

know that's something we're doing at Mind of Machines and , steve , I'm not sure

15:51

if any other examples come to mind that you've seen either within Mind of Machines or that

15:53

other clients have used or other folks that you're aware of .

15:55

Yeah , I mean I'm sure throughout

15:57

this conversation we'll get into more

16:00

specific kind of use cases and how

16:02

organizations are indeed

16:04

applying AI . Getting

16:06

more granular with

16:09

Jay's commentary , which I totally agree

16:11

with , what I really appreciate

16:13

in the

16:15

moment that we're in now , the moment that

16:17

I'm referring to , is watching

16:20

the evolution of the marketplace

16:22

and its receptiveness where

16:25

, not too long ago and

16:27

this even predates the

16:29

commercialization or the accessibility

16:31

of chat GPT things like

16:33

AI and it's not just AI If

16:36

you think about RPA , robotic

16:38

process automation there's

16:41

a fear factor that

16:43

AI technology

16:45

innovation is going to replace

16:47

the humans . My point of this is

16:49

I am seeing and

16:52

witnessing , not only firsthand

16:54

with clients and dialogue , but even

16:56

in the written form in these articles that

16:58

we're reading , that that

17:01

notion is indeed

17:03

being recognized and verbalized

17:06

as myth . The reality

17:08

is , of course , there is efficiencies

17:11

and there is value

17:13

that AI brings

17:15

and it does put certain

17:18

roles

17:20

or functions at risk

17:22

, but that does not have

17:24

to equate to replacing

17:27

the human . It's a redistribution

17:30

of humans and leveraging

17:32

AI , like any technology , to

17:35

upskill and enhance

17:37

the human element

17:40

and contribution to the organization

17:42

and contribution to the organization

17:44

. So for me it is and , Talia , as you're mentioning

17:47

, for Mind Over Machines , we may

17:49

be a technology consulting

17:52

firm , but it's always all

17:54

about the humans . So

17:58

I just appreciate that the dust is settling around this notion

18:00

that AI is going to replace the humans

18:02

and we are really focused . The

18:05

industry as a whole is focused

18:07

on how do we better leverage artificial

18:10

intelligence to enhance human

18:13

productivity and the value that we

18:15

do bring to an organization

18:17

. So that's really exciting to me

18:19

.

18:20

No , I love that call out and I think that

18:22

that highlights . No

18:38

, I love that call out and I think that that highlights . I love how you reworded the

18:40

redistribution of the skill sets within the workforce , because I think there are skills that are

18:42

specifically human , you know , so you don't have to do some sort of manual

18:44

entry can really allow you to be more

18:46

creative and tap into these skill sets that are

18:48

purely human , which

18:50

I think is great . And I know , jay

18:53

, in the past we've talked about you know

18:55

why AI in HR

18:57

is such a good analogy for how we think about

18:59

digital transformation , because I think it's

19:03

such a great example of using AI

19:05

to automate and

19:07

do some of these more mundane tasks

19:09

and make processes more efficient , to really

19:12

enhance and empower the humans in

19:15

your workforce . So I'd love to hear you know

19:17

your thoughts around that . And

19:20

, yeah , just human versus AI skill

19:23

sets in general .

19:25

And , yeah , just human versus AI skill sets in

19:27

general , absolutely

19:39

. You know that's a great segue to the rest of our conversation as well , because how do we keep the

19:41

human at the center ? One saying this I've

19:43

asked a lot of

19:45

our industry thought leaders and

19:47

leaders that I've met in my work

19:49

over the past year on

19:51

how we should be doing this , and the

19:55

biggest thing that came out from

19:57

all of these conversations is

19:59

that we need to be asking

20:02

and listening to

20:04

our , you know , colleagues

20:07

, the folks who are the boots

20:09

on the ground , who are dealing with these

20:11

technological changes , and

20:15

how the changes are impacting their work

20:17

day in and day out , because

20:19

they are the ones who can help us actively

20:22

focus on what

20:24

kind of impact any

20:27

of our policies or decisions around

20:29

implementing new technology

20:31

in our workplaces has

20:34

, and so ask

20:36

questions , ask how

20:39

it's impacting their lives

20:41

, you know , ask why

20:44

they feel this is a

20:46

big challenge or why it's

20:48

a great , great enhancement

20:50

to their work , and

20:53

then listen before you take action

20:55

. I've , you

20:57

know , seen organizations where

21:00

technology has been implemented without

21:04

any kind of , you

21:06

know , listening architecture in

21:08

place , like employee for us or

21:10

even a focus group , to

21:13

find out if this is the right technology

21:15

and if this is the right time to

21:18

implement that technology in the workplace

21:20

. Is our organization even

21:22

ready to take on this new

21:24

tech and is our workforce

21:26

, you know , at

21:28

that mental capacity and

21:31

able to learn this

21:33

new tech in the time that

21:35

we want them to get acquainted

21:38

with this tech and use it ? These

21:41

are really big questions that have always

21:44

been the center of any technology

21:46

acquisition in the workplace , but

21:49

they have not been as robustly

21:52

implemented as I would

21:54

have liked them to be . I mean , I've been

21:56

in workplaces where I've

21:58

been given the technology and said

22:00

here , go implement it . I

22:02

never had a say in what

22:04

tech was chosen

22:07

. Who chose it ? There were

22:10

times when there were outgoing employees

22:12

who had picked the tech and had left the organization

22:14

and I was brought on to implement the new tech

22:17

and employees had no clue what

22:19

was going to hit them . They were never

22:21

kept abreast of what changes were coming

22:23

their way . Or , you know , we always

22:25

talk about being this people first

22:27

. Hr function right , because

22:30

the H in HR is human after

22:32

all , but

22:34

I think we forget to

22:36

keep that at the center of any of

22:38

these discussions that

22:41

involve technology . So

22:44

, to me always

22:46

asking and listening first and

22:48

then creating the

22:52

solution is key

22:54

to keeping the human at the center

22:56

of all this conversation .

22:58

Kudos to you , jay . I love

23:01

that commentary , that is so . I

23:03

mean , look , at the end of the

23:05

day , when we are implementing any technology

23:08

, it is , I consider

23:10

it , common sense to include

23:13

the users , the humans , and

23:15

you know it's about adoption

23:17

and it's about change management and there's

23:19

all kinds of best practices

23:22

and things to

23:24

include the humans and

23:26

the user community and things

23:28

of that nature , community

23:36

and things of that nature . But I'll tell you what I am amazed at how

23:38

many organizations don't employ those best practices . It's a

23:40

funny story kind of funny , but

23:42

yet not funny . I recently

23:44

had to walk away from an opportunity

23:47

because I was

23:49

told by someone that

23:51

my audience , my

23:53

users , are going to use this technology because

23:56

I tell them to use it . Seriously

24:00

. That was the quote . Because I

24:02

asked well , you know , what are we doing about change

24:04

management and what's the plan ? And have you talked

24:06

to anybody ? Because this is going to be pretty

24:08

disruptive . They're going to use it because I

24:10

tell them to use it . I had to walk away

24:13

from that . Wow

24:15

, estimating In today's day and age

24:17

, I mean , come on , what are we

24:19

talking about here ? That's just silliness , but

24:23

it happens , and so I

24:25

think it's important that we have shows

24:28

like this and people like you in

24:30

the marketplace to help smooth

24:32

out some of those edges , and

24:34

it's not going to go away 100% . You're

24:36

always going to have certain individuals

24:38

that are kind of muscling

24:40

their way through it . But you're absolutely right

24:42

. The takeaway , I think , for everybody is

24:44

you can't lose sight of the humans

24:46

. It is to everybody's

24:49

best interest , in all different shapes and

24:51

sizes , to just

24:53

be considerate , because there are

24:56

two aspects of what we're talking about , including

24:58

the humans . One is just overall

25:00

adoption and

25:03

efficiency and it applies

25:05

to return on investment and things of that

25:07

nature . But we are feeling

25:10

creatures , you know nature

25:16

. But we are feeling creatures

25:19

, you know . So why not ?

25:19

employ

25:21

some of the psychology that goes along with humanity .

25:23

That's my thought . Love it , just love it . No , absolutely . And

25:25

I think you brought up a good point , steve and

25:27

Jay , of you know bringing your

25:29

people along , not only , you

25:33

know , to empower your workforce , but to increase

25:35

adoption . You know these tools are only as good

25:37

as you know , if

25:39

they're being used . If they're not being used , you're not

25:41

going to get the full , you know , return on investment out

25:45

of it . So folks tend to not respond

25:47

to you just have to because you have

25:49

to . You know there needs to be some more

25:51

discussion and I think , jay , you called out the validation

25:54

of very real fears , and I think that's

25:56

something to make sure

25:58

it's being addressed and not brushed under the

26:01

carpet , because folks will , you know they

26:04

won't want to adopt a tool like that and then you won't

26:07

get the real benefits thereafter

26:09

. So really , really great call-outs . I love

26:11

that and

26:14

I guess , on that note , I'm

26:26

curious , jay , and Steve

26:30

, is there any ?

26:31

I'll go first . I've

26:35

always found that approaching

26:37

any new technology

26:40

with

26:42

a growth mindset you

26:44

know , with the learning mindset approach

26:46

works really

26:49

well in everyone's favor

26:51

the ones implementing the tech

26:53

, the ones using the tech , the ones

26:55

in fear of the tech , everyone

26:58

you know

27:00

. Think of the organization

27:03

in terms of personas

27:05

. You know , if you've been in sales or

27:07

even in IT , think of the

27:09

different personas using the technology

27:11

, using

27:18

the technology , and think about how each of these individuals can

27:20

be brought into the conversation by creating a

27:22

sense of community . For me , community is one of the

27:24

biggest sources and the

27:26

best sources of knowledge . You know , having

27:29

a colleague going through the same challenges

27:32

and then having colleagues who

27:34

have expertise in different areas

27:36

related to those challenges

27:38

is really beneficial

27:41

, especially in a workplace

27:43

setting where you know all of

27:45

us are grappling with the same kind

27:47

of challenges related to that , to

27:50

a particular technology or tool that

27:52

we're being asked to use . For example

27:54

, you know I'll give you a use case

27:57

when Excel spreadsheets

28:00

first became the norm

28:02

for collecting

28:04

data in HR , we didn't have great

28:07

tools in those days I'm talking about

28:09

just 15 years ago and

28:12

Excel was really a

28:15

big tool for HR professionals

28:17

, at least my colleagues . You know some

28:20

of them had never even used it or even

28:22

opened that part of their Microsoft Office

28:25

suite . They'd probably used Word

28:27

here and there , but they'd never used

28:29

Excel . So we created

28:31

this learning community in just

28:34

our HR group across

28:36

our organization , which we

28:38

had , several different locations

28:41

across the state of Maryland , and

28:44

we exchanged information . We didn't have

28:46

any of these newfangled Slack

28:49

channels or anything like that to

28:51

communicate and it was either phone

28:53

calls or we met in person or via email

28:55

, right Like that mass email that

28:57

we used to get . But we

28:59

used to share information . If we learned

29:02

something new in a particular week

29:04

that would help us do

29:06

something quicker , like generate a report

29:09

quickly , easily , in

29:12

a much better fashion . We shared that and

29:17

it was so helpful to hear that from a colleague than for

29:19

me to go online or even

29:22

for me to attend a training class and

29:24

learn that , and I retained

29:26

that knowledge better than

29:28

when I went to a training session outside

29:30

of the workplace . So you

29:33

know , that's my advice . You know join

29:35

a community or create one of your own

29:37

if you don't have a community

29:39

that you like or know of . You

29:41

know I created a community called the HR

29:44

Bytes Community for

29:46

all of my friends

29:48

and people in my little village to

29:51

share knowledge about all the different tech

29:53

that's coming at us at lightning

29:55

speed in the hr workplace . And we

29:57

are not on any um

30:00

you know inaccessible gated

30:02

uh fora . We are on linkedin and facebook

30:04

um , you know , it's that easy to

30:07

form a community , form your own community

30:09

and and share and learn together

30:11

. That's I think that's the best

30:14

I've received and that's the one I'd

30:16

like to

30:21

also share .

30:22

I think that's a great one , Jay . I

30:26

can say that with our client

30:28

base , I would say the most successful

30:32

organizations adopting AI

30:34

have done just that . It's not just

30:36

about creating a steering committee

30:38

to determine what do we do

30:41

, what's the business case and

30:43

what are the steps that we follow , but

30:47

creating an environment , as

30:49

you are describing , a community , a

30:51

forum to

30:53

give employees

30:55

the opportunity to learn

30:58

from one another , share their experiences

31:01

as well as their

31:03

emotions , their thoughts . So

31:06

I think that's exceptional On

31:28

more of the other side

31:30

of the fence , relative to what I'm seeing

31:32

as a best practice

31:34

and this isn't specific

31:36

to me or is measurable

31:39

that's attainable

31:43

, that gains excitement

31:45

and momentum to

31:48

demonstrate the return on investment

31:50

, Because anything that does

31:52

take time to adopt and mature

31:54

, you got to start small

31:56

and kind of grow upon that . There

32:01

is some paralysis that is taking place

32:03

in the market where a

32:06

lot of these AI initiatives

32:08

are getting stuck in the pilot phase

32:11

phase and not truly being

32:13

released

32:15

and built out

32:18

, primarily because

32:20

they just skipped steps in the

32:22

strategy on the front end of it

32:24

all to really kind of hone in

32:26

on some

32:28

of these particulars that we're talking about

32:30

. So , yeah , it

32:33

might seem a little elementary

32:35

, but seeing so many organizations

32:38

skipping those steps

32:40

, that is my

32:42

strong recommendation To

32:44

start small , be very deliberate

32:47

about the use case that you

32:49

are selecting and

32:52

maybe even bring in

32:55

or focus the use case on

32:57

a department or individuals

32:59

that are really behind it , Because

33:01

there is something about momentum that

33:04

does absolutely come into play

33:06

and impact long-term success

33:09

.

33:10

I usually refer to exactly

33:13

what you said , as how do we make

33:15

an elephant dance ? We're

33:20

talking about simplifying all this . Right , like

33:23

a colleague of mine would say , how

33:25

do we eat the elephant ? And so we have

33:27

this elephant analogy going , because

33:29

it is definitely

33:31

not a dinosaur anymore , but smaller

33:34

than a dinosaur to tackle technology

33:36

, implementation and adoption

33:39

, but certainly it's still

33:41

looming large in all

33:43

of our agendas today and we really need

33:45

to take it one step at a time

33:47

and create that sandbox kind of environment

33:49

, like you said , really , really important

33:52

.

33:52

I do . I have a question for you . Jay said

33:55

really , really important , I do . I have a question for you , jay . I'm curious , as

33:57

it relates to this topic that we're on , like adoption and

33:59

success , and what is that kind of the

34:01

path that you follow ? Do

34:04

you have any thoughts or insights

34:07

on what

34:09

part of the organization owns

34:11

AI ? And there's a lot of debate

34:13

. Is it really IT ? Is

34:15

it really technology that we're talking about

34:18

? Should it be the COO , because it's

34:20

really about operational efficiency ? Is

34:22

it the legal counsel ? So I'm just

34:24

curious . I mean , I think anybody can have

34:26

opinion . I'm just curious to see what you're seeing

34:29

in the marketplace .

34:31

Well , that's a great question

34:33

, because just last week there

34:35

was this whole push for a chief

34:38

AI officer in every

34:40

organization , yep .

34:42

It's smart .

34:49

I think that's great as a position

34:51

that has tripled

34:53

in the last five years and you know

34:55

it's up I think the

34:58

article said up by 13%

35:00

in adoption of that particular

35:02

role in organizations . So

35:05

, yes , you know there

35:08

was this push for a chief digital officer

35:10

, like about 10

35:12

years ago , you know , when

35:14

there was a lot of new tech coming out , and

35:17

so a chief AI officer

35:19

sounds like a great plan because AI

35:22

is changing so fast . I mean , as

35:24

we speak , right like whatever

35:27

was implemented last week is

35:29

no longer the case this week . It's so different

35:31

, even when you go on to the commonly

35:34

used AI tools on the marketplace

35:36

right now . We definitely

35:38

need , you know , a

35:41

strategy to handle this and maybe

35:43

a person in

35:45

an organization who keeps abreast

35:48

of all these changes and is able

35:50

to advise and , you

35:53

know , throw some light on what's happening

35:55

. They need not

35:57

be a technical whiz . You know I

35:59

don't have a technical background , I only

36:01

have an HR background , although I've done some

36:04

technical certifications . But

36:06

you know , this knowledge

36:09

of AI is something that anyone

36:12

can acquire and share

36:15

with their organization , and so maybe having

36:17

a centralized role like that is

36:19

a good thing for organizations today . Great

36:22

question , though .

36:24

Agreed . So not only it

36:27

is interesting that you mentioned the chief digital

36:29

officer because , going back

36:31

to my comment about just how fascinating

36:34

it is for us to be

36:36

living through this , I love

36:38

it , it's exciting . But

36:42

you're going back in time where

36:44

the chief digital officer eventually

36:47

transformed into chief experience

36:49

officer and things of that nature

36:51

, again , applying this whole

36:53

notion that it's bigger

36:55

than just an implementation

36:58

, it's bigger than just the technology

37:00

itself . It really deserves an

37:03

individual to own it and

37:05

to steer it and

37:08

be responsible for it . My

37:11

fear is when you've got multiple

37:13

parts of the organization owning

37:15

it , that does not often

37:17

work out there , but

37:20

I do believe that it is

37:22

a cross-functional responsibility

37:26

. But I

37:28

agree with you , I think it's best

37:30

served by having a

37:32

chief , by having an individual

37:34

responsible for it , but

37:37

being inclusive

37:39

. It can't be a silo . You've

37:42

got to have legal counsel involved

37:44

, you've got to have HR involved

37:47

, you've got to have IT involved . There's

37:49

a , you know , especially from a governance

37:51

standpoint . So anyway

37:53

, those are my thoughts .

37:56

You love that . Yeah

37:59

, making sure we're bringing everybody along for the ride and we're thinking about this holistically

38:01

from the human perspective , hr side , from the security

38:03

, legal perspective , from the technology

38:06

perspective , from the users doing it , but then having one

38:08

person who's really the head of this

38:10

AI task force , that can be the decision maker

38:12

and kind of take

38:15

in and digest all of the different perspectives . So

38:17

, yeah , that's a really , really

38:19

great call out . Well , keeping

38:22

an eye on time here and I do want to get over

38:24

to our wins . But , before we jump over

38:26

there , any last minute thoughts

38:28

or questions or things we haven't touched on that you think

38:30

would be great for the audience to hear

38:32

from Steve or Jay at this point .

38:37

Sorry , steve , I did have a question

38:39

for both you and Tally . Steve

38:41

, you did

38:43

mention you

38:51

were using an internal chatbot , right ? Is there a use case

38:53

that you can highlight for our audience where

38:55

it augmented your efficiency as a human , to just

38:57

throw light on how some of this technology

39:00

is impacting our daily lives ?

39:02

You kind of stole the question that I was going

39:04

to raise to you as well . I

39:06

have a crystal ball

39:08

, indeed . Very good , I like that

39:10

. So I was kind of I was in the same

39:13

vein that you have . I was going to

39:15

inquire with you as to like what

39:17

are some of the business goals

39:20

and outcomes

39:22

at a business level that you're finding

39:24

is the is the focus for things

39:27

that we're seeing is using AI to drive revenue and

39:42

, secondly , to improve

39:44

operational efficiency , slash , reduce

39:47

cost . Those are the two kind

39:49

of predominant business

39:52

outcomes for us

39:54

and I think this is definitely achievable

39:56

for most organizations . We

40:00

use our tool

40:02

, which we call Katie , as

40:06

a knowledge base . So

40:08

, especially from

40:10

my perspective heading up sales and marketing

40:13

, it is mission critical

40:15

that not only my team

40:17

have access to client

40:20

stories and successes and case

40:22

studies and things of that nature , but

40:25

I want the entire organization

40:27

. We all represent the

40:29

brand , we all have client-facing

40:31

responsibilities . We all have client-facing

40:34

responsibilities . So

40:36

we're using Katie in one

40:38

aspect to gain efficiencies

40:40

and accuracy of

40:42

the stories that we're telling about

40:46

our client work and successes

40:48

and who was

40:50

involved in the project as

40:52

an example . So having

40:54

that at our fingertips has

40:56

been amazing . Tali

40:59

can speak more about it because she was heavily involved in the implementation

41:03

and build of this . But I

41:06

can attest , because here's

41:08

the thing , it's not just the speed

41:10

to get people team

41:13

members , the information , which is

41:15

awesome , but you know what else it does

41:17

. It reduces the noise . For

41:19

me because and I think

41:22

, other leaders because if people

41:24

do have questions , where are they going to go ? They're

41:26

going to go to other humans and ask them

41:28

. So to be able to kind of cut down

41:31

on that has been very

41:33

beneficial to us . Talia , you have

41:36

any thoughts ?

41:37

No , absolutely . I think you just hit the nail on the head . In

41:39

the past I would have asked somebody whether

41:42

it's somebody from senior leadership or

41:44

who's worked on a project and saying , hey , is

41:46

there a time we've used technology

41:49

X Because I'm doing a lot

41:51

of research , and then there's

41:53

a half hour to an hour conversation

41:55

wasted from both myself and the person

41:58

I'm speaking to that maybe they have to repeat that to somebody

42:00

else who's also inquiring about that , whereas

42:02

now we have all that information uploaded to

42:04

our internal large language model

42:06

that we can simply ask whenever we need

42:08

. And it's been a huge help for

42:10

new employees as well . As we get new

42:13

folks in , you know

42:15

, who are just learning and trying to figure out where

42:17

information is and to get backstories

42:19

and use cases

42:21

and some , you know , account

42:24

specific information . They can simply

42:26

ask the question and get

42:28

a response , and then you know use

42:30

that for various you

42:32

know text generation , you know

42:34

for marketing material or social posts

42:37

or , you know , to

42:39

connect with different potential

42:43

prospects . So it's been a really , really cool

42:45

use case for us , and I could go on

42:47

and on about the different ways we use it , but I

42:49

think you know just having that internal database for

42:51

knowledge management purposes has been huge

42:54

in terms of the time that we've saved .

42:57

Wonderful . That's a great use

42:59

of the tech , right ? I mean , as long

43:01

as it's impacting your life and your work

43:03

in a very positive manner

43:05

, yay for that technology . You

43:08

know there's always this fear of tech

43:10

replacing us , right . But

43:13

then if it's augmenting us and making

43:15

us more efficient and happier

43:17

at work , like the emotions

43:20

that you referred to earlier , steve , you

43:22

know a happy workplace bleeds

43:25

into the rest of your life , right ? And

43:27

how do we utilize

43:29

the technology to

43:32

delve into those

43:34

kind of emotions and foster

43:36

those emotions in our workplace

43:39

is also very crucial , as

43:41

we , you know , talk about this new

43:43

AI revolution

43:46

. You did ask me about other use cases

43:48

that HR teams

43:51

have been experiencing and

43:53

you know one area

43:56

that I deal with daily is

43:58

the transformation of paper-based

44:01

HR processes to

44:03

being more digitizable

44:05

, bringing them into the 21st

44:07

century and making

44:10

that shift towards a people-first

44:12

HR function rather than being

44:14

this paper-first HR function

44:16

. Right , I've seen a lot

44:18

of organizations leverage

44:21

tools to digitize their

44:23

processes not just , you know , pdf a

44:25

document , but actually digitize

44:27

the workflow for , say , onboarding

44:29

a new hire , hire

44:41

Having access to you know , company policies and other onboarding relevant

44:43

processes in one centralized location , accessible from any device , anywhere

44:46

, especially with distributed teams

44:48

today has been a

44:50

game changer for , you know , hr

44:52

teams , because HR teams are usually strapped

44:56

for resources . We are usually

44:58

the most underfunded department and

45:01

the most understaffed department in

45:03

any organization of any size

45:05

and having

45:07

such tools , you

45:10

know , be there as a resource

45:12

to augment our work has

45:15

definitely helped a lot

45:17

of my HR colleagues take

45:19

on their role

45:21

with the lightness in their step

45:24

like never before , especially after

45:26

the past few years of dealing

45:28

with . You know , I don't want to say the

45:30

word pandemic , but here I am . Hopefully that's the

45:32

last time I say this during this conversation

45:34

, but you know that whole change

45:37

in our lives and work

45:39

lives definitely threw

45:41

a lot of things out the door

45:43

. You know , the old holding

45:46

on to the old ways of doing

45:48

things no longer holds us

45:50

in good stead . So definitely

45:53

all of these different use

45:55

cases are great ways of

45:57

showcasing how AI and

46:00

other technology has impacted

46:02

our lives and continues to impact our lives every

46:05

day .

46:07

I'm curious , so totally agree

46:09

. Thanks for sharing those

46:11

. I am also

46:14

curious about your thoughts

46:16

around using AI

46:18

in the recruiting process

46:20

, because there's a lot of debate in the marketplace

46:23

using AI

46:25

to scan and prioritize candidates

46:29

, and I personally

46:32

am torn with

46:34

this topic . I love the efficiency

46:37

because , boy , especially in today's day

46:39

and age , because we're

46:41

from the pandemic , we're not in

46:44

the remote workforce , we're

46:46

not bound by a certain geographic

46:48

kind of territory of

46:51

recruiting people

46:53

because it's remote , that

46:57

unleashes such a huge

46:59

volume of candidates

47:01

to consider now it's

47:04

not humanly possible to

47:06

get through all of them , so you need some

47:08

tools in place , but

47:10

I don't believe that

47:13

technology

47:15

can do as

47:18

good a job as the

47:20

human in really deciphering

47:22

the resume and

47:25

the application . You know what I mean by

47:27

that .

47:27

Oh yeah , definitely Great question

47:30

and a great conversation starter

47:33

. We can talk for hours

47:35

about this . I

47:52

can you know I've experienced the whole gamut of being a candidate who applied for a job

47:54

at the paper application , to being a candidate who actually spoke on a video interview , to being

47:56

a candidate who was assessed by AI , and I can tell you , I've also been on the other side of the

47:58

spectrum where I have received

48:00

paper applications . I have reviewed

48:03

paper applications and resumes . I

48:05

have interviewed candidates via Zoom

48:07

and also interviewed candidates by

48:09

just receiving a video

48:11

recording of who they are and , believe

48:14

it or not , before Zoom there

48:16

was just that video recording that you could send to folks with

48:19

a brief intro about who you are as

48:21

a candidate . And then

48:23

I've also used assessment centers

48:25

and other tools and I've built assessment

48:28

centers . My background in IO psychology

48:30

led me to do a lot of that work

48:32

across the United States , across

48:34

different industries . To

48:37

give you a straight answer

48:39

to me this is

48:42

both a blessing

48:44

and definitely

48:47

not something that

48:49

I like . So the blessing

48:51

is , hey , it takes down

48:54

and cuts down the time it takes

48:56

to review thousands of applications

48:59

. Definitely . You know

49:01

, when we had these job boards like Monster

49:03

and Career Builder . They used

49:05

to filter and help us filter candidates

49:10

. That helped us do a better

49:12

job with filtering candidates

49:14

through the different criteria

49:16

that we , as recruiters , would use . But

49:19

even then , as a human

49:21

, you still had to for

49:24

me , you still had to read a resume

49:26

, still had to think

49:28

about how these different aspects

49:31

of a candidate related to the

49:33

job description and the knowledge , skills

49:35

and abilities that are required to

49:37

be successful in the job . And

49:39

when you talk about AI

49:42

and I'm

49:44

reading this book called the Algorithm

49:46

how AI decides

49:48

who gets monitored , hired

49:50

, promoted and fired , and why

49:52

we need to fight back now by Miss

49:56

Shellman I don't know how to

49:58

say her first name , I think it's Hilkey , but

50:01

she wrote this book and she's

50:05

an investigative reporter and

50:07

journalism professor at NYU . I

50:10

would suggest everyone to read this book . I

50:12

mean , it is so enlightening

50:14

on how these algorithms which

50:16

are the basis of any AI

50:19

, by the way are

50:21

deciding who gets hired and who gets

50:23

fired and who gets promoted and who

50:25

needs to be monitored on the job

50:27

. Right , I mean , as humans , we've

50:29

failed to do a good job at this . How

50:31

is this AI going to do a better job

50:33

? That's the question of the century

50:36

, I think and , steve , you

50:38

asked it . So my answer

50:40

is it's great that it's there , but

50:42

it's I still am not fully

50:45

bought on . You know that

50:47

being used 100%

50:49

to be an accurate

50:51

tool and an accurate assessment

50:54

of a human candidate , I mean I

50:56

really , as a recruiter in my

50:58

former life , I never agreed

51:00

with my own assessment sometimes

51:03

and had other recruiters review my work

51:05

. So how is this AI going

51:07

to do a better job than a human ? I mean

51:09

, there are certain aspects to it that can

51:11

be done in a better way , like you know . The filtering

51:13

and using certain criteria , definitely

51:16

, yes , awesome , but making that

51:18

final decision , I wouldn't trust

51:20

the AI to do that , never .

51:22

Yeah , I agree with all of that . But I think

51:24

for me anyway , and I think you would

51:26

agree , there are certainly a volume

51:29

of in this example resumes

51:32

that you receive that are absolutely

51:35

not qualified . So to

51:37

use a tool to help

51:39

weed that out is a

51:41

productive use of the tool . But

51:44

to the point that you are making , you

51:49

can't rely on the tool to

51:51

make the decision for

51:53

you , if you know what I mean . You've

51:55

got to just leverage what you can to kind

51:57

of be more efficient . But

52:00

in my opinion it is the human

52:02

that really makes the magic work .

52:06

Yeah , I would definitely caution that use

52:08

case . I know that there's an article

52:10

and I'll share it after the fact

52:12

of Amazon using that . We

52:14

want to be really careful with the inherent

52:17

biases of certain data sets . So it's always

52:19

good to caution and understand how

52:21

everything functions , but

52:23

definitely , obviously , obviously increasing efficiency , making

52:26

sure that the human has time to even go through

52:28

all these resumes . So it's really that balance

52:30

. It's a great call out . Well

52:32

, as we wrap up here , I'd love to jump

52:34

into our wins for the day

52:36

. So you know , as mentioned , we like to

52:38

end each podcast on a positive

52:40

note . So , jay

52:43

, I'd love to turn it to you and hear what your

52:45

positive AI win is for the day

52:47

.

52:48

Well , believe it or not , I got my electric

52:51

toothbrush to work . So , yay , yay

52:53

. But

52:56

yeah , my AI win . I've

53:00

used ChatGPT very cautiously

53:03

ever since it was introduced , used

53:09

ChatGPT very cautiously ever since it was introduced

53:12

, but you know it's being integrated with a lot of the tools that sometimes

53:14

we use in our work . So we have a few new members on

53:16

our team who do a lot of our digital

53:18

marketing and social media work

53:21

. So , when it comes to content

53:23

generation work

53:30

, so when it comes to content generation , of course , you know it's really increased the speed

53:32

at which my team members are able to generate content

53:34

, but , at the same time , there

53:36

are a lot of things in the content that need to be

53:38

monitored , corrected

53:40

, supervised by me . So we are keeping

53:42

our brand voice the

53:45

way we want to . We

53:47

want our customers and prospects to hear

53:50

it and view it , and

53:52

so my win is I got

53:55

Canva , which

53:57

has a magic tool which

53:59

is an integration of a tool

54:01

similar to Dolly and

54:04

ChatGPT , to

54:06

actually generate an image of

54:09

a gecko you know , hr geckos

54:11

of a gecko

54:14

skating on a surfboard

54:16

and

54:19

, you know , listening to

54:21

a podcast about HR

54:24

technology , and I could generate

54:26

that image quite successfully for our

54:28

HR Bites podcast

54:30

, season four of which is going to be next

54:33

month . So that's my win

54:35

.

54:35

Yeah , I just love that and I

54:37

can't wait to see . I'll have to connect

54:39

with you after so we can share that image

54:41

in the comments here , because I think that's super

54:43

fun and I want our audience to be able to see

54:45

that . Very cool , Thank you for sharing

54:47

. Yeah , absolutely All

54:50

right , Steve . What about you ? Any positive news

54:52

today ?

54:54

Yes , so One . I think it's invaluable

54:56

again

55:12

, keeping in mind all of the things

55:14

that we've already talked about that the human needs

55:16

to be involved . You know you

55:18

got to fact check things , things of that nature

55:20

, but here's the real point that

55:22

I'm making is so valuable to

55:24

just use it to get started

55:27

, because the biggest

55:29

challenge that most people have most people are

55:31

not very good writers , so

55:34

they struggle with just getting

55:37

that first sentence or first paragraph

55:40

crafted . It is a

55:42

game changer crafted . It is a game

55:44

changer , so

55:46

much so that in our world

55:49

we have to respond to

55:51

RFPs , requests

55:53

for proposals . So Tim

55:55

Culp and I , not too long

55:57

ago , we were crunched

56:00

. We received an RFP . We did not

56:02

have time to really dedicate

56:04

ourselves to it , so

56:07

we leveraged

56:09

at this point Jasper

56:12

AI to

56:14

help us craft a

56:16

lot of the content . Clearly , we

56:18

used our pre-canned

56:22

content around , our methodologies

56:25

and things of that nature , but just the

56:27

wordsmithing and coming up with the executive

56:29

summary and things of that nature . It

56:32

dramatically reduced the

56:34

amount of time that we really need to put

56:36

in as humans and

56:38

we actually ended up winning that

56:40

proposal . So that

56:43

was wonderful because they probably

56:45

cut our human time , I

56:48

bet 50% , if not more

56:50

. It was wonderful .

56:52

Amazing and thank you for sharing

56:54

that too , because I think that's something hopefully a lot of folks on

56:56

this call can relate to . I know I can . Writer's

56:58

block is a thing and as soon as you have a piece

57:01

that you could edit , it all starts looking but

57:03

a blank page . It can be really challenging

57:05

to just get going . So I love that example

57:07

and what a fun win .

57:10

Yeah , it was great .

57:11

Well , my win for the day is it's

57:14

a little teaser , so we will be having

57:16

a shift

57:18

here shortly in terms

57:20

of the format of the Boring AI Show , moving

57:22

more towards a podcast format

57:24

. In addition , there's going to be an exciting Boring

57:27

AI Show event , where

57:29

it's going to be a little bit more participatory

57:31

for those listening . So please

57:34

keep your eyes peeled for some upcoming announcements

57:36

that you should see with the next week or two , and

57:40

then tune in for the Boring

57:42

AI Show on the 19th to learn more

57:44

about these two major updates

57:46

. So very , very exciting stuff , and I think

57:48

that hopefully , this will be something

57:50

that a lot of folks will get value out of . So

57:52

more to come shortly , but definitely

57:55

keep your eyes and ears peeled Right

58:00

. Well , I think that this was a great episode

58:02

and Jay , thank you so much for joining us , and

58:04

Steve , thank you for taking over , as Tim

58:06

here is the co-host . I think this was a really , really

58:08

interesting discussion

58:11

and , per usual , we

58:13

will have the recording released

58:15

, hopefully next week . For those who

58:17

missed it and are interested or want to re-listen

58:19

to any parts of this , be sure

58:22

to stay tuned .

58:24

Thank you . Thank you for having me , Tali

58:26

and Steve and Tim . I really enjoyed

58:28

this conversation .

58:30

Indeed . Thank you , jay , appreciate it . Great

58:32

job , kimberly .

58:33

Thanks guys , have a good one . Bye-bye , Bye-bye

58:36

.