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Listening through the briefing first broadcast on the

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eighth of April, two Thousand and Twenty Four

1:00

on Monocle radioed. It's. Twenty

1:02

hundred in Tokyo, fourteen hundred in Tel

1:04

Aviv midday here in London, and eight

1:06

I am in Rio De Janeiro. You're

1:08

listening to Monaco Radio. The briefing starts

1:11

now. Hello

1:24

and welcome to the briefing coming to light

1:26

from studio. Wanna hear the Dory House in

1:28

London? I'm Andrew Miller coming up on today's

1:30

program. Hundreds.

1:39

Of thousands take to the streets

1:41

in over fifty locations across Israel

1:43

to protest Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's

1:46

handling of the Gaza War, the

1:48

Tri Lateral Security Pact orcas considered

1:50

becoming jokers. The security of Ukraine's

1:53

separation nuclear power plant once again

1:55

becomes cause for concern and finally

1:58

were joined by Monocles Finance. though,

2:00

Augusto Pacheco, for a look at the

2:02

papers, say what's on the agenda today.

2:04

Hello, Andrew. Today we'll look at the

2:06

spat between Mexico and Ecuador, and another

2:08

spat between Elon Musk and a Brazilian

2:10

Supreme Court judge. A pair of spats.

2:12

That's all coming up right here on

2:14

The Briefing on Monocle Radio. And

2:22

welcome to today's edition of The Briefing.

2:24

I'm Andrew Muller. Yesterday, Israel commemorated the

2:27

passing of six months since Hamas's attacks

2:29

of last October 7th, which killed at

2:31

least 1,200 people, and

2:33

prompted an ongoing war which has left

2:36

the Gaza Strip substantially in ruins and

2:38

killed over 33,000 Palestinians.

2:40

Among the observances of the half-anniversary

2:42

of October 7th were protests in

2:45

Tel Aviv and other Israeli cities

2:47

against the government of Israeli Prime

2:49

Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Under various and

2:52

considerable pressures before the conflict began,

2:54

he is also criticised for Israel's

2:56

failure so far to secure the

2:58

release of perhaps 130 hostages still

3:00

held by Hamas. I'm joined in

3:02

the studio with more by Daniela

3:04

Pellett, managing editor of the Institute

3:06

for War and Peace Reporting. Daniela,

3:09

first of all, there were

3:11

huge weekly protests before October

3:13

7th against Netanyahu across Israel.

3:16

Are these protests to any

3:18

extent continuations of those? Yes,

3:21

to a large extent, they are a continuation. I mean,

3:23

what was interesting about those protests

3:25

is that they spanned really quite a large

3:29

portion, a range of Israeli

3:32

demographics. So what certainly wasn't protest

3:34

by the left or the shrinking of whatever

3:36

remains of the left in Israel, it was

3:38

really much more, much

3:41

more mainstream. So there

3:44

is a continuation of that protest movement, but I

3:46

think what's also really important to note

3:49

is this these anti-war protests

3:51

that war still retains

3:53

a very high degree of support amongst

3:56

the Israeli public, the Jewish Israeli public, I

3:58

should say, who see this as a necessary

4:02

means to destroy

4:04

or incapacitate Hamas and ensure

4:07

the release of the hostages, which isn't

4:09

to say that they support the

4:11

prosecution of this war in every aspect or the

4:14

impact on the civilians of

4:16

Gaza. But there is direct criticism

4:18

of Netanyahu for A, allowing the

4:21

security situation to deteriorate

4:23

to the point where October 7 could happen,

4:26

and also not just failing

4:28

to retain the hostages, failing

4:31

to destroy

4:33

Hamas and return the hostages, but also

4:35

the way that perhaps unsurprisingly

4:38

Israel's standing as

4:40

part of the international community has

4:42

deteriorated hugely, which in itself is

4:45

interesting because that's always been one of

4:48

his key offers. I,

4:51

Bibi Netanyahu, am the only person

4:53

that can represent Israel in the

4:55

face of international hostility. I

4:57

mean, it's one

4:59

of those things, though, where whatever

5:01

else you may think of Benjamin

5:03

Netanyahu, when you do have a

5:05

situation where a group like Hamas

5:07

has taken dozens of hostages, your

5:09

good options are extremely limited. And

5:11

would he not have been under

5:13

just as much pressure of a

5:15

different kind if instead of prosecuting

5:18

this merciless war against Hamas, he

5:20

had prioritized the return of the

5:22

hostages above all other considerations? That's

5:24

what happens when you're in government. You have

5:26

to make unpopular decisions. The issue there, I

5:28

think, is it would have been particularly unpopular

5:30

with the constituency, the very far right constituency

5:33

that he relies on to keep in power.

5:35

And that's the other crucial

5:37

aspect here, is he faces numerous

5:41

legal cases and accusations of corruption and

5:43

so on. He needs to stay in

5:45

power to avoid

5:47

that. As long

5:50

as the war continues,

5:52

the calls for fresh

5:55

elections have been fairly muted, even

5:57

though this level of of

6:00

protest in the midst of an ongoing war

6:02

is quite

6:05

unprecedented. It is remarkable,

6:07

and the protests, as you've suggested, are not

6:09

small. The organisers are claiming 100,000 plus

6:12

and measured against a country as

6:14

small as Israel is. That is

6:16

a measurable chunk of the population.

6:19

But as you've also intimated, how big

6:21

a threat to Netanyahu are not the

6:24

people broadly to his left, as I

6:26

suspect most of these

6:28

protesters are, and obviously to the left

6:30

of Netanyahu is a fairly wide expanse

6:32

of the spectrum. But pressure

6:34

from the right reported today that the

6:36

National Security Minister, Itovar Ben Gveer, who

6:39

is regarded, I think, as the headbanger's

6:41

headbanger, says that Netanyahu would no longer

6:43

have a mandate to

6:45

serve as Prime Minister if he does

6:48

not launch a full-scale offensive against Rafa.

6:50

Well, look, he's talking the big talk.

6:54

And he was excluded. Him

6:56

and the right have been a little

6:58

bit edged out of recent

7:01

meetings and recent decision-making processes.

7:04

The fact is that without Netanyahu's

7:06

government will crumble, but also without Netanyahu,

7:08

their chance of being part of the

7:10

government is also out of reach. Netanyahu,

7:14

even considering the headbanging

7:16

headbangers of his government, is not

7:18

that far to the right by

7:20

Israeli standards. He's pragmatic. His

7:23

number one priority is to remain in

7:25

power. And there is certainly

7:27

very far from left wing, but pragmatic figures in

7:29

his government that would be there and would be

7:32

quite popular in terms of forming a new

7:34

government. So Netanyahu relies on the

7:37

far right. The far right relies on

7:39

Netanyahu. But outside pressure has been stepped

7:41

up to the point where it's really

7:44

impossible to see Netanyahu being able to

7:46

resist the pressure to make concessions.

7:49

Well, he is also under considerable pressure,

7:51

we should note, from outside Israel. Israel's

7:54

usually absolutely rock solid allies, among them

7:56

the United Kingdom and the United States,

7:58

have been increasing. vocal in their

8:01

discomfort with how Israel has waged

8:03

this war in Gaza. We

8:05

are near enough now to six months

8:07

into that as well. Do we yet

8:09

though have a clear idea of what

8:11

Benjamin Netanyahu thinks the post-war

8:14

situation will or should look like? If

8:16

he is thinking ahead another six months,

8:18

has he articulated any vision of

8:20

a new settlement? I,

8:23

a settlement is being... Possibly the poor

8:25

choice of word now that I say it. Look,

8:28

Netanyahu also embodies the very

8:30

Israeli traits of what

8:32

they call in Israel, improvisazia. So this

8:35

is one of the reasons that the

8:37

IDF is a very agile fighting force,

8:39

is one way to put it, and

8:41

also Israeli innovation. But

8:44

planning ahead, this sort of

8:46

strategic versus tactical planning is not

8:49

a strong characteristic and certainly

8:51

not for Netanyahu. As I said, he

8:55

is playing this moment by moment, week

8:57

by week to try and stay in

8:59

power as long as possible, ward off

9:01

the legal action against him.

9:03

We've had some quite clear indications of

9:05

what will not happen. So Hamas will

9:07

not be in a significant position of

9:10

power after the end of this. There

9:12

have been all kinds of ideas

9:15

muted from Mohammed Dakhlan, who was

9:17

the former Palestinian Authority strongman in

9:20

Gaza, being put in position to

9:22

take over. The PA,

9:24

which is already pretty defunct in the West

9:26

Bank, having a role in administrating Gaza,

9:29

because also the day after the

9:31

fighting ends, and really there's

9:34

no sign that that day will be any time soon,

9:37

Gaza has been vastly

9:40

destroyed in terms of infrastructure, 85%

9:43

of the population displaced. When the

9:45

international media, if and when they are

9:48

allowed in, then we'll learn even

9:50

more about the extent of the

9:52

crisis there. So the question

9:54

is very far from, well, okay, the fighting

9:56

will stop, people will return to their homes

9:58

and a new form of government. will be

10:00

instituted. There's a long, long, long, long road

10:02

to go down before that happens. Daniel

10:04

Appellad, thank you as always for joining

10:07

us. Now here is Laura Kramer with

10:09

the day's other headlines. Thanks

10:11

Andrew. The UN nuclear watchdog

10:13

has urged restraint after this

10:16

operation nuclear plant was attacked

10:18

on Sunday. Russia says

10:20

Ukraine is behind the attack, which

10:22

it said injured three people. Kyiv

10:25

has denied involvement. The UN's International

10:27

Atomic Energy Agency has warned such

10:29

attacks significantly increased the risk of

10:32

a major nuclear accident. Almost

10:35

100 people have died, including children

10:37

and more than 20 are

10:39

missing after a ferry boat capsized

10:41

off the northern coast of Mozambique,

10:43

according to the country's maritime body.

10:46

The vessel was an overloaded fishing boat

10:48

and was not licensed to transport people.

10:51

State media has reported passengers were

10:53

fleeing a cholera outbreak. And

10:56

finally, a Brazilian judge has opened

10:58

an investigation of Elon Musk for

11:01

obstruction of justice. This comes after

11:03

the tech mogul said he would

11:05

defy court order to remove ex-accounts

11:07

accused of spreading disinformation. We'll hear

11:09

more about this later in the

11:11

show. Those are the day's

11:13

headlines. Back to you, Andrew. Thank

11:15

you, Laura. This is the briefing with

11:17

me, Andrew Muller, and two disquieting tidings

11:19

now for any listeners who may have

11:22

excitedly welcomed the 2021 inauguration of Orcus,

11:26

the trilateral security pact embracing Australia,

11:29

the United Kingdom and the United

11:31

States, by purchasing souvenir tea towels.

11:33

The acronym may be about to

11:35

change. Reports suggest that Orcus might

11:38

shortly become Jorkus, at the very

11:40

least, with the welcoming aboard of

11:42

Japan. Other potential partners

11:44

are believed to include Canada and

11:47

New Zealand, raising the spectre of

11:49

Jorkus kittens. I'm joined now by

11:51

Michael Binion, Foreign Affairs Specialist for

11:54

The Times. Michael, first of

11:56

all, let's start with what we do know, which

11:58

is that Japan seems to be being drawn

12:00

into Orcus. Why do the three

12:03

established partners want Japan in? Well

12:07

first of all they think Japan

12:09

itself is fairly vulnerable to pressure.

12:12

Secondly, because pressure from China that

12:14

is. And secondly, because they feel

12:16

that Orcus is a very important

12:19

way of developing a containment strategy

12:21

for Southeast Asia to stop China

12:23

spreading its influence right across the

12:26

South China Sea and

12:28

potentially causing tremendous problems

12:30

with Philippines and various other neighbouring

12:32

countries which feel that China is

12:34

encroaching on

12:38

their waters. Does

12:40

being care to delineate that Japan

12:43

would not participate in what they

12:45

are calling Pillar 1, which involves

12:47

the acquisition of nuclear

12:49

powered submarines, which is something

12:51

Australia decided to do much

12:53

to France's displeasure at the time because

12:55

France thought they were selling submarines to

12:58

Australia. But Japan won't. Why is that?

13:00

Is that just because Japan, which I

13:02

believe has something to the order of

13:05

23 boats already, thinks it

13:07

has enough submarines and doesn't need to

13:09

participate in this? No,

13:12

I think it's more because the first

13:14

phase, the first pillar of Orcus needs

13:16

to be consolidated. It's

13:18

only been signed since 2021

13:21

and integration of what's needed, particularly

13:23

in submarine warfare and in the

13:25

development in new nuclear submarines, does

13:28

involve considerable cooperation and participation

13:30

among the three nations. When

13:32

that's settled down, Pillar

13:34

2 is a broader expansion

13:36

of the agreement which would

13:38

involve collaboration in technologies such

13:41

as undersea capabilities, hypersonic weapons and

13:43

things of that kind. And that's

13:45

where Japan could come in and

13:48

make a useful contribution. There

13:50

is some doubt whether

13:52

Japan has sufficient security

13:55

of its own facilities.

14:00

so that it would not be

14:02

vulnerable to snooping and

14:04

pressure from outside. But clearly

14:07

Japan does want to

14:09

be involved in what looks like the

14:12

genesis of a sort of

14:14

Southeast Asia NATO, the idea

14:16

of containing China by bringing

14:18

friendly countries together in

14:20

a sort of defensive alliance. I mean,

14:22

that is looks like, or just looks

14:24

like the sort of genesis of that

14:26

kind of arrangement. We will

14:29

come shortly to the question of how delighted

14:31

China is going to be by that

14:33

prospect, but is there also a

14:36

cosmetic aspect

14:38

to the desire to bring Japan in,

14:40

i.e. to have at least

14:43

one actually Asian country in

14:45

a defensive alliance focused on

14:47

the Asia-Pacific? Former Australian Prime

14:49

Minister Paul Keating was

14:51

of course very critical of AUKUS, which he

14:54

called a manifestation of, I quote,

14:56

a jaded and faded Anglosphere. Well,

15:00

yes, I think that could well be a reason. Certainly

15:03

it looks better if it's focused

15:05

on the security in the region

15:07

to have those countries clearly in

15:09

the region and clearly Asian countries

15:11

taking part. And Japan has

15:13

been very keen to make sure that it's allegiance

15:16

to the Western defensive pact

15:19

or the Western way, sort

15:21

of the Western economies generally,

15:23

the Western world is specifically

15:25

acknowledged while being an important

15:27

Asian heavyweight itself economically

15:30

as well as politically. So I think

15:32

that is important. And I think Japan

15:34

wants to make sure that its close

15:36

relations with the United States, which go

15:38

back right since the end of the

15:40

Second World War, are formally acknowledged and

15:42

that it is not left out with

15:44

some new pact being drawn up that

15:47

sidelines Japan. We've

15:49

alluded to China's likely displeasure

15:51

with this, but what can

15:54

we actually expect from them

15:56

both in terms of rhetoric

15:59

and... action. China is

16:01

obviously famous for reacting

16:03

to the the vaguest

16:06

perceived even imaginary slight

16:09

or curtailment with extraordinary

16:11

fits of temper. So they're really not going to be

16:14

happy about this, are they? They

16:16

certainly are not. No, they're going to be

16:18

extremely angry. They will be aggressive. They'll make

16:20

a number of statements

16:22

accusing the United States,

16:24

Britain and Australia of ganging up on

16:26

China, which is what they said the

16:28

very first time when Orcus was was

16:30

mooted and then implemented. And particularly

16:32

they will be angry by the inclusion

16:34

or possible inclusion of Japan because separately

16:36

they have had a long ongoing quarrel

16:38

with Japan more or less since the

16:41

end of the Second World War over

16:43

what they see as Japan's refusal to

16:45

acknowledge its guilt in the Second World

16:48

War, its dreadful treatment of the Chinese

16:50

and indeed its glorification to some extent

16:52

of some of its own war dead

16:55

at the famous cemetery where some of the spirits

17:00

of the war criminals were remembered

17:02

there. There's a big,

17:04

big sort of long standing bitter

17:07

feud between China and Japan.

17:10

It's been slightly moderated in

17:12

recent years, partly for economic

17:15

reasons, but partly because the

17:17

Chinese have got other things to focus

17:19

on. But I think this would rekindle

17:22

this animosity and certainly the Chinese, I

17:24

don't know exactly what kind of threats

17:26

they would make, but they will be

17:29

accusing the West of ganging up on them. Michael

17:32

Binion, at the Times, thank you as always

17:34

for joining us. You are listening to The

17:37

Briefing on Monocle Radio. This

17:45

is The Briefing on Monocle Radio.

17:48

In the early stages of Russia's

17:50

full-scale invasion of Ukraine, there was

17:52

considerable and reasonable concern about the

17:54

nuclear plant at Zaporizhia. The

17:56

plant, which includes six reactors, is the

17:58

largest in Europe When it

18:01

was seized by Russian forces in

18:03

March 2022, Ukraine's government sought to

18:05

raise the alarm about the combination

18:08

of nuclear reactors and incoming artillery.

18:11

This weekend, the plant was struck

18:13

again, apparently by drones. No serious

18:15

damage appears to have been done,

18:17

but the International Atomic Energy Agency

18:19

has urged restraint. Russia

18:21

has blamed Ukraine for the attack. Ukraine

18:24

denies involvement. I'm joined with more

18:26

by Lada Roslitsky, founder of Black

18:28

Trident, a defence and security consulting

18:30

group in Ukraine. Lada,

18:33

what do we know for sure about

18:35

this attack at the weekend? Well,

18:38

we know that it happened. And

18:41

we know that the Russians

18:43

are always going to accuse the

18:45

Ukrainians of attacking their own territory.

18:48

We know that the station is crucial

18:51

and the largest station on the planet,

18:53

and we're really concerned that

18:55

the international community is not doing

18:57

anything to protect the plant itself.

19:00

I mean, would either side, which

19:02

is to say either Ukraine or

19:04

Russia, actually benefit from doing this

19:06

on purpose? Well,

19:09

Ukraine wouldn't benefit, of course, because

19:11

its territory, its people, its environment,

19:13

and it would cause a huge

19:16

environmental catastrophe all the

19:18

way into Europe. But

19:21

the Russians can benefit. This

19:23

is a sort of terrorism,

19:26

a nuclear terrorism, where they

19:28

continue to frighten Ukraine's allies

19:31

and really pushing for support

19:34

on the Russian side for so-called peace,

19:36

which is actually winning the war on

19:38

the Russian side. Does that

19:40

now seem to be part of

19:42

Russia's strategy? We have in recent

19:45

weeks seen a spate of accelerated

19:47

attacks against Ukraine's energy

19:49

infrastructure. Yes,

19:52

it's ongoing. It's

19:55

actually unreasonable that Ukraine's

19:57

skies have not been closed over... particular

20:00

critical infrastructure such

20:02

as the station. And

20:04

it's going to be more intense.

20:06

The fact that Ukraine doesn't have

20:09

enough armament and support from the

20:11

allies, particularly the United States, has

20:14

a direct impact on the level of death

20:17

and terror here every single day.

20:20

So it is the case now that

20:22

those holdups in funding, those holdups in

20:24

munitions are starting to have an effect

20:26

on Ukraine's ability to defend itself. Yes,

20:30

to defend itself and it's also having

20:32

a very serious impact on the morale

20:34

of the people on the ground. So

20:37

we need the support, we need

20:39

the F-16s, we need to have

20:42

the radio warfare aparatized and we're

20:44

not getting it. I mean, a

20:46

big part of this problem is

20:48

of course the holdup of funding

20:50

from the United States, which is

20:52

being becalmed by the

20:54

Congressional Republican Party for largely domestic

20:57

political reasons but the UK's Foreign

20:59

Secretary, Lord Cameron, is going to

21:01

Washington DC this week. He

21:04

and his French counterpart, the French Foreign Minister,

21:06

Stephan Sejourn, have written a

21:08

joint op-ed sort of vouchsafing

21:11

their resolve to help Ukraine and

21:13

they even use the phrase to

21:15

ensure we defeat Russia. Is

21:18

that been reassuring to Ukrainians, especially

21:20

the, I guess, the harder line

21:22

that French President Emmanuel Macron has

21:25

taken recently? Absolutely.

21:27

The fact that Europe seems to

21:29

be waking up to the national

21:31

security threat that Russia faces to

21:34

them is definitely making

21:36

Ukrainians feel better because we do need

21:38

the support and we're starting to feel

21:40

that finally the threat is starting to

21:43

be recognized. At the same time,

21:46

under Trump's presidency and we

21:48

keep hearing from the Republicans that Europe

21:50

has to step up and kick in.

21:52

We hear a lot of anti-NATO rhetoric

21:54

still coming from the so-called

21:58

radical Republicans. a

22:00

very tense year for us

22:02

and at the end of the day the Ukrainians

22:05

right now are the ones who are dying,

22:07

but maybe next year it's going to be

22:09

people in other parts of the world in

22:11

our allied states. Adamus In that context, and

22:14

I guess looking at the energy war as

22:16

it is directed in the other direction, were

22:19

Ukrainians a bit bemused by those remarks

22:21

from the United States, from Secretary of

22:24

State Anthony Blinken and others, urging

22:26

Ukraine not to strike Russian

22:29

energy infrastructure inside Russian territory.

22:32

Dr. Ching-Chu Of course, and this

22:34

is an extremely dangerous type of rhetoric

22:36

which can negatively impact

22:38

the perceptions that Ukrainians have

22:40

here of democratic values

22:44

and principles. They're feeling quite a

22:46

bit let down, betrayed to a

22:48

great degree. Let's

22:51

remember that Ukraine did give

22:54

up the third largest

22:56

nuclear arsenal and President Obama

22:59

facilitated the removal of

23:01

over 145 kilograms

23:03

of highly enriched uranium from Ukraine

23:06

which was then handed to Russia.

23:08

So the dark cynicism of

23:11

Western politics is actually feeding the

23:13

Russian narratives not only in Ukraine but

23:15

also in the Middle East. Adamus Lada-Ruzlitsky

23:17

at Black Trident, thank you very much

23:20

for joining us. You're listening to The

23:22

Briefing on Monocle Radio. You

23:36

are listening to The Briefing with me, Andrew

23:38

Muller. Finally on today's show we are joined

23:40

in the studio by Monocle Radio's senior correspondent,

23:42

Fernando Augusto-Bicheco, for a flick through some of

23:45

the day's other top stories. Fernando,

23:47

as is often the case when you

23:49

join us for this spot, this is

23:51

heavily South America focused as indeed are

23:53

you. So where are we

23:55

starting? There will be a lot of

23:58

spats today, as I said on the manuscript. clip.

24:01

I do enjoy your spat, so I'm quite excited about

24:03

this. I do enjoy it. We start in Brazil. It's

24:06

the main story there in the country. So

24:08

a Brazilian Supreme Court judge, Alessandro Giamora, is

24:10

a very well-known judge. He opened an investigation

24:12

on Ilo Musk's ex.

24:15

And the reason for the investigation is because Alessandro

24:18

Giamora is known to

24:20

fight spreading disinformation, fake news, and

24:22

he wants to ban some accounts

24:25

on ex that

24:27

spread disinformation. And of course Ilo

24:29

Musk said, basically Ilo

24:31

Musk, he thinks he works for

24:33

the Brazilian government, he said he

24:35

should resign or be impeached. That

24:38

was Ilo Musk's decision. And there is

24:40

the risk. It

24:43

is a real risk that ex might

24:45

stop working in Brazil, not because of

24:47

Alessandro Giamora. Don't threaten Brazil with a

24:49

good time, Fernando. Exactly. So

24:51

there's a big spat there. And of course, it

24:54

shows the divided political climate in the

24:56

country, because both sonatas and supporters are

24:58

very much pro-Ilo Musk. You

25:00

were made. Yes. I mean, look what Bolsonaro

25:03

said about Ilo Musk just a year ago.

25:05

He said he was a legend of liberty.

25:08

So it's a divisive topic

25:10

in the country. And Alessandro Giamora is,

25:13

although I do agree in a big

25:15

part, because we have to fight fake

25:17

news and disinformation, but he's very much

25:19

kind of a star judge. And

25:22

there's been some criticism that our Supreme

25:24

Court is at times quite political. So

25:27

it is a divided topic. So we

25:29

have to see from both sides

25:31

of the coin here as well. Well,

25:33

let's move along to the day's other

25:35

spat. And this is Ecuador

25:37

versus Mexico. Why have Ecuador

25:39

and Mexico got into it? So

25:42

on Friday, Ecuador, well, basically,

25:44

they broke diplomatic relations between both countries.

25:46

And it's quite serious, because police

25:49

raided the Mexican Embassy in Quito. And

25:51

the reason for that, they wanted to

25:53

arrest a former Ecuadorian vice president Jorge

25:55

Glass, who was seeking asylum at the

25:58

embassy since Friday. That's quite serious. I

26:00

mean, because... No, I mean, it is

26:02

no small change to send your own

26:04

police into a foreign embassy

26:06

compound. Absolutely. And of course, we have

26:09

to see here the accusations against glass

26:11

here. Apparently, you know, there

26:13

was some embezzlement accusations and he was

26:15

the vice president and the

26:17

leftist Rafael Correa. But one thing that

26:19

is quite interesting about this, that

26:22

most Latin American leaders condemned Ecuador, and

26:24

it was not just from the left.

26:26

Of course, have Brazil, Colombia, but even

26:28

the leaders of, you know, Argentina, Uruguay.

26:31

So it's been widespread condemnation. It's quite, it's

26:33

been quite a serious thing, but I don't

26:35

know what's going to be the development. Of

26:37

course, all the members of the Mexican Embassy

26:39

in Quito, they are in Mexico at the

26:41

moment. This has been quite serious.

26:44

And I wonder how long it will take for both

26:46

countries to kind of, you know, get back together in

26:48

a way. Is there any mechanism

26:51

in place for returning

26:53

vice president glass to face

26:55

Ecuadorian justice? Or are Mexico

26:58

going to say, no, he's

27:00

claimed asylum, we will offer him asylum? Well,

27:02

from my understanding, I think he is already

27:04

in a prison, in a security prison at

27:07

the moment. So probably he lost that

27:10

chance to, you know, to ask for Mexico

27:12

for asylum. So yeah, very controversial story from

27:14

the region. We should

27:16

finally look at the life and

27:18

legacy of Zoraldo, the Brazilian cartoonist,

27:21

whose passing is being

27:23

widely mourned. Yes, very much. He's

27:25

a Brazilian icon, you know, he

27:28

died on Saturday. And Andrew, he's most

27:30

known for a series of comic strips called

27:32

Mininoma Lu King or The Nutty Boy. It's

27:35

a lovely little cartoon about a young boy with

27:37

a pen on his head. Very,

27:39

very beautiful, beautifully written. But Zoraldo was

27:41

also very important against the fight for

27:43

democracy in Brazil. So he was one

27:46

of the founders of Opas King, which

27:48

is a satirical newspaper launched in the

27:50

mid sixties, I believe, quite

27:52

critical of the military dictatorship, but they had

27:54

to be discreet with their criticism, otherwise they

27:57

would be banned. So he's very much kind

27:59

of a pull. political figure in that sense

28:01

as well. And after, it

28:04

was quite difficult to make the newspaper

28:06

so then he moved to children's books,

28:09

but very clever ones. So, Zirao does the

28:11

legend and we have to pay a little

28:13

tribute to him as well. It is interesting

28:15

that, as you suggest, he was able to

28:17

keep functioning during those long decades during which

28:20

Brazil was governed by people not known for

28:22

their sense of humor. How

28:24

much of a risk was he running,

28:26

making fun even very obliquely and subtly

28:29

of the military dictatorship? Very lot

28:31

of risk. He's been arrested as some of his

28:33

other kind of journalists at the time. So he

28:35

was, you know, it was a

28:37

risky thing to do. And the newspaper is

28:40

known to today. I think they tried to

28:42

revive a decade ago. It didn't really work

28:44

out. But, you know, I've

28:46

seen copies of the old paper. It was

28:48

very, very clever. And it's something that unfortunately

28:51

we don't see in the Brazilian newsstand these

28:53

days as well. I mean, he was a

28:55

very old man. He was 91. This is

28:57

a long life as well as a full

28:59

one. But in summing the

29:01

late Zoraldo up, how would you

29:04

say he encapsulates the

29:06

Brazilian sense of humor? What did he

29:08

tap into that made Brazilians laugh, which

29:10

he did over many decades and several

29:12

generations? I mean, he was so Brazilian.

29:14

Every picture you go, you

29:16

go on Google and you type Zoraldo, he's smiling.

29:19

And even when you know Mado King, he's a very

29:21

simple story of a 10-year-old boy. But I think there

29:23

is this innocence as well that I think, you

29:25

know, I connect Zoraldo of Brazil. And

29:28

Andrew, guess what? He was a big

29:30

football fan. I mean, what

29:32

a surprise. But he was indeed. He was obsessed.

29:35

So yeah. So in that sense, he's very

29:37

much connected to the country. And his pictures

29:39

are on the front page of every Brazilian

29:42

newspaper? Of course. And Nati Boyo, meaning Mado

29:44

King as well. Fernando, Augusto,

29:46

Bacheco, thank you very much for joining

29:48

us. That is all for today's edition

29:50

of The Briefing. It was produced by

29:52

Paige Reynolds and Vincent Macaveni. Our researcher

29:54

was George Ruskin. Our studio manager was

29:56

Lily Austin. The Briefing returns tomorrow at

29:59

the same time. time. I'm Andrew. Thanks

30:01

for listening.