The following is a conversation between Jennifer Garvey Berger, the CEO of Cultivating Leadership and Author of Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps: How to Thrive in Complexity, and Denver Frederick, the Host of The Business of Giving.

The massive amounts of complexity and change that leaders face these days are unprecedented. And our system, both organizational and bodily systems, are not automatically good at coping with this. In fact, our instinct to simplify a complex world can be dangerous.

This tendency and how to address it is captured in a wonderful book by my next guest. She is Jennifer Garvey Berger, the CEO of Cultivating Leadership and author of Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps: How to Thrive in Complexity.