0:00

pretty much . The doctor said we know what we're

0:02

looking at here , we just needed biopsy to confirm

0:04

it . Essentially , the first thing that I did was go

0:06

to this great grocery

0:09

store that we have that has a wonderful salad

0:11

bar and load up on broccoli , sprouts and greens

0:13

and legumes and all these things . That was

0:15

within my control . Obviously , I

0:17

knew that going to eat that delicious plate

0:19

of amazing food wasn't going to

0:21

change the outcome of my biopsy

0:24

at that moment . Right , but it was

0:26

. This is full control . This is what

0:28

I have control over and this is what I can

0:30

do when everything else is out of control , and

0:33

nutrition is that thing . It is one

0:35

thing . We can control what we put in our mouth , how

0:37

much we do it , how much we are physically

0:39

active , et cetera . I'm Dr Tina .

0:41

Kaser and I'm Dr Lea Sherman , and

0:43

we're two naturopathic doctors who

0:45

practice integrative cancer care , but

0:47

we're not your doctors . This

0:50

is for education , entertainment and

0:52

informational purposes only .

0:54

Do not apply any of this information

0:56

without first speaking to your doctor

0:58

.

0:58

The views and opinions expressed on this

1:00

podcast by the hosts and their guests

1:02

are solely their own .

1:04

Welcome to the cancer pod . Hi

1:10

Tina , hi Lea . So

1:13

today we have a very special

1:15

guest . We have with us today

1:17

Allison Tierney . So

1:20

Allison Tierney is a board

1:22

certified oncology dietician and cancer

1:25

thriver who empowers those affected by

1:27

cancer to conquer fears , take back

1:29

control and fully support their body

1:31

before , during and after cancer

1:33

treatment . In 2022

1:36

, allison was diagnosed with invasive ductal

1:38

carcinoma at the age of 33 . Her

1:41

knowledge base of oncology nutrition supported

1:43

her throughout surgery , chemotherapy and immunotherapy

1:46

. Today , she uses both her

1:48

professional and personal experience to help

1:50

cancer thrivers do the same . Using

1:53

evidence-based nutrition and lifestyle medicine

1:55

, allison guides her clients

1:57

through recommendations to reduce treatment

1:59

side effects , enhance quality of life

2:01

, focus on recurrence risk

2:03

reduction and , ultimately , help cancer

2:06

thrivers reclaim the control cancer

2:08

tries to steal . Her passion

2:10

for cancer nutrition isn't just

2:13

a passion or a profession

2:15

. It's also personal . So

2:17

welcome Allison .

2:19

Thank you so much for having me . I'm excited to be

2:21

here .

2:22

And I just have a clarifying question right out

2:24

of the gates Were you already

2:27

doing cancer care before

2:29

your diagnosis ?

2:30

Yes , that is correct , OK , I thought so

2:32

. Yeah , I've been doing oncology and nutrition

2:34

for about 10 years now .

2:35

OK .

2:37

And your experience

2:39

with your diagnosis . You

2:43

said before we started recording you said that you

2:45

were treated at

2:47

the same cancer center , that you were working .

2:49

Yeah , absolutely . I actually had left that cancer

2:51

center at the end of 2018 , but

2:54

was still very well connected with everybody

2:57

there , so I knew about probably 85%

2:59

of the staff when I went back for my own diagnosis

3:02

and treatment .

3:02

OK , and were there any experiences

3:05

as you were there

3:07

as a patient that kind

3:09

of changed the way that you managed

3:11

patients once you completed treatment ? Was

3:14

there anything that kind of stood out in

3:17

terms of how you were treated by the staff

3:19

or anything like that ?

3:21

Yeah , well , I was actually treated incredibly

3:23

well by the staff and

3:26

it was interesting because I had been gone for

3:28

about three years

3:30

at that point because I had left

3:33

to work in my own private practice , which

3:35

I do now today still . And

3:37

I was still introduced to some people

3:39

like oh , this is our oncology dietician . And

3:41

then they would remind themselves like , oh wait , no

3:44

, she's not her dietician anymore . But

3:46

I was really well connected to those individuals still

3:49

. So many friendships that were made during

3:51

the course of working there . And

3:53

what was really interesting is the day of

3:55

my alcohol diagnosis

3:57

. But it was really when I had ultrasound mammogram

4:00

and biopsy . I was

4:02

coming to the breast center to have an ultrasound

4:04

because there was a suspicious lump and

4:06

I had messaged my friend

4:09

who is a nurse navigator at the Cancer Center and

4:11

said , hey , I'm coming to the Cancer Center today , didn't

4:13

tell them why . And I said , hey , when

4:15

I'm done with my appointment maybe I can come up . And

4:17

we called it the clubhouse , which is where all

4:19

of our desks were . So it was the nurse navigator

4:22

, social workers , dietician , et cetera , and

4:24

I could come up and say hi to everyone and

4:26

at the end , when we knew that it was

4:28

no longer benign or

4:30

it was suspicious . Now I ended up texting

4:32

that friend and said hey , I'm actually at the breast

4:35

center and I'm here for a biopsy now

4:37

and it's concerning , will you come down ? And

4:39

so it was actually where I had

4:41

that experience . She was my friend and I do remember

4:43

her saying do you want me to be your oncology

4:45

navigator or do you want me to be your friend ? And

4:47

I said both . And then I do remember

4:50

her very specifically asking as well are

4:52

you sure that you want to be treated here

4:54

? Because I think she was so well

4:56

informed like you know everybody here right

4:58

, this is going to be a very personal , emotional

5:01

, vulnerable thing . Do you want

5:03

to be treated here ? And I said absolutely

5:05

yes . And the reason I said

5:07

yes is because I worked there for many

5:09

years and I knew the ins and outs and I knew

5:11

how they treated their patients and

5:13

that's what I wanted . And I received amazing

5:16

care . And this sounds kind of weird

5:18

, but I knew , before I was ever diagnosed

5:20

with cancer , who I would want for my oncologist

5:22

. So I pretty much was able to kind of hand

5:25

select that team , knowing exactly

5:27

who they were , what they were about , other patients

5:29

that they'd had . So I had a really good experience

5:31

from that perspective . I think the

5:34

hard part for me that I experienced

5:36

about being treated at the same cancer center that I

5:38

used to work out was that

5:40

I had a hard time letting my guard

5:42

down , and what I mean by that is

5:44

something that I actually worked through with

5:46

. My counselor was really and

5:48

the counselor that I chose that didn't

5:51

work there when I was there . So that was a specific

5:53

choice to work with someone that didn't already

5:55

know me . And I remember very specifically

5:57

one time during chemo and

6:00

I remember just being so

6:02

fatigued and

6:04

just drained and emotional

6:06

and not really being myself . And

6:09

I remember as soon as the nurse came

6:11

in the room I kind of popped up and I was the normal

6:13

Allison , this nurse I worked with for so

6:15

many years and she was a great friend and from that standpoint

6:18

. And then when she'd leave the room I'd kind of sulk

6:20

back down and I was back to being that way

6:22

. And I remember on my way home from the cancer

6:24

center that day telling my husband I'm really sorry

6:27

that you're not getting the best

6:29

version of me , and they are , but

6:32

it's so much easier to pretend

6:34

with them and I can be real with you

6:37

and then thinking about that . I

6:39

don't think pretend was the right word . It was just where

6:41

I was sending my energy at that

6:43

time . But I very much learned that

6:45

I had a hard time putting my guard down

6:47

in that vulnerable state , which was

6:50

probably what my nurse navigator friend was talking to

6:52

me about . Are you sure you want to be treated here

6:54

? And it was really that concept

6:56

that I used to walk in those doors every day

6:59

as a professional and now I'm walking in these

7:01

doors several times a week as a patient

7:03

and I had a hard time letting that guard

7:05

down . But once I was able to work through that a little

7:07

bit more , I was able to do that more

7:10

so as time went on and as my

7:12

treatment progressed .

7:13

Yeah , I definitely recognize that same

7:15

situation in what I went

7:18

through in terms of when

7:20

I was treated . I was Dr Sherman , the

7:22

nurses , everyone they referred to me as

7:24

Dr Sherman . So it was like plus

7:26

the fact that you might run into patients in

7:28

the hall or somewhere , so it

7:30

was always kind of putting on a face . I

7:33

definitely recognize that and that is kind

7:35

of hard .

7:36

Yeah , and I think cancer itself often

7:38

means putting on a different face , right

7:40

. Then maybe the outward

7:42

appearance doesn't match the inward appearance

7:45

or how you're feeling inward right , and so

7:47

that's of it . You're constantly

7:49

feeling like you're putting this face on , and I think that can

7:51

be so mentally and emotionally draining

7:54

, for I mean , the cancer journey itself is

7:56

already a mentally and emotionally draining , but never really

7:58

being able to put your guard down the way that

8:01

might be healing and restorative can

8:03

just add this other layer of difficulty

8:05

in the whole process . Yeah , absolutely .

8:07

Do you think that's ? There's an added layer obviously

8:09

being seen at an institution that knows your professional

8:12

self . That adds a whole layer of

8:14

having to put a facade on as

8:16

a patient . But do you

8:18

think that women in general don't

8:20

want to put other people out ? So there's some concern

8:23

about ? Oh , I don't want to . I want to be my best self

8:25

because I don't want to ruin your day . I don't want to bring you down , I

8:27

don't want to lay that on you .

8:29

So yeah , there's a little self sacrifice layered

8:31

in there . Absolutely . And I also see

8:34

that from the standpoint of when patients are talking to

8:36

me or just people that I'm conversing

8:38

with in social media or what , not whatever it

8:40

might be when they might

8:42

ask a question or they're you know , for

8:44

example . So we were talking about soy

8:46

and someone said their oncologist told them

8:48

to avoid soy and

8:50

I said , well , do you know what their reasoning was ? And

8:52

they said , well , I didn't ask them . Them I

8:55

did Right . And I think there's a couple of pieces

8:57

to that they didn't want to impose further

8:59

. Some of it could also be that

9:01

you know you're hearing one thing and sometimes going

9:03

out the other . There's so much going on in an

9:05

oncologist appointment , but I think sometimes

9:07

it's . I don't want to feel like a burden . I don't want to be that

9:09

person that's asking further questions or I

9:12

don't want to be the person that questions my oncologist and

9:15

challenges it . Right , and I think that happens

9:17

a lot for women is that we don't

9:19

want to be the person that challenges , even

9:22

when it doesn't feel right . So I think that's

9:24

part of my story too is like advocating

9:26

for yourself . When something doesn't feel right

9:28

, ask more questions , be willing to keep

9:31

asking more questions till you get an

9:33

answer . You know and I think about

9:35

for my own journey . Had I not acted

9:37

upon the lump that I felt and

9:39

asked for more answers

9:41

, I don't know where I'd be today .

9:43

To be honest , oh , because of your age

9:45

, because of people probably were you , were

9:47

you dismissed at all ? Was it like , oh

9:49

, you're too young for this to be suspicious

9:51

?

9:51

or not necessarily for myself . I

9:54

know that that's the case for a lot of young

9:56

women is like , oh it's , you're too young , it's probably

9:58

nothing Right . My situation

10:00

was more so . The reason why I got

10:02

into oncology nutrition is because my mom

10:04

is a breast cancer survivor , my grandmother

10:07

is breast cancer survivor , my grandfather passed

10:09

away from liver cancer , my other grandmother

10:11

passed away from lung cancer and my godmother

10:13

is a breast cancer survivor . Right , there

10:15

was so much cancer in my family that I was very

10:18

interested and curious about how

10:20

nutrition could play a role . I was already

10:22

interested in nutrition because I

10:24

was an athlete and wanted to know how my sports

10:27

performance could be enhanced through the nutrition . Then

10:29

all these diagnoses happen and I wanted

10:31

to know how could nutrition play a role ? Could

10:33

it help reduce our risk of recurrence , could it

10:35

help during the course of treatment and could it help into survivorship

10:37

? I don't think I'd be here

10:39

talking today if we didn't find out that , yes

10:42

, nutrition can play a role in all of these

10:44

areas . That interest

10:46

in oncology came from that and therefore

10:48

that strong family history of cancer

10:50

didn't necessarily dismiss

10:53

me . My OBGYN is the

10:55

same OBGYN that my

10:57

mom was diagnosed with breast cancer with . She

10:59

knew my history very well . I

11:02

was only 10 days post breastfeeding

11:04

my second child . I went in for

11:06

an annual exam . She did a breast exam

11:09

. We found a lump . Honestly , the

11:11

lump itself was kind of dismissed

11:13

because I had just finished breastfeeding , breast

11:16

change so much it could have been a clogged up , et

11:18

cetera . I remember just shooting the breeze

11:20

with her being like , oh yeah , okay , whatever . Then

11:23

I remember going home and feeling

11:25

it over and over . I believe my

11:27

role as an oncology dietician and working with

11:29

a lot of young breast cancer survivors is

11:31

actually part of my story in early detection

11:33

from the standpoint of those

11:35

individuals that came before me . Sure

11:38

, the knowledge base that I had , but it was really

11:40

that . That said , I'm not

11:42

too young to have breast cancer . I

11:44

have an extensive family history of it

11:46

. I need more answers . I need peace of mind . A

11:49

few weeks later I messaged my doc and said

11:51

, hey , I need some peace of mind . I

11:54

actually just read the MyChart message the other

11:56

day , going back to it and saying I just want some

11:58

peace of mind . What do we do next ? And that's

12:00

where the ultrasound was scheduled . Ultrasound

12:02

came back . There

12:05

was already concern , mammogram concern

12:07

, we need to get a biopsy , and that's

12:09

kind of how it all happened .

12:11

So am I hearing you right ? You self-advocated

12:14

for the follow-up imaging . It wasn't your

12:16

OBGYN that said let's check this out and

12:18

make sure it's okay , correct yes , and

12:20

from that standpoint I thought

12:23

about this a lot .

12:24

I was preparing for a lifestyle

12:26

medicine conference where I was the main breast cancer

12:29

speaker and I was

12:31

preparing for it and came across some research

12:33

about breast cancer during pregnancy , postpartum

12:36

and with breastfeeding . And although , yes , it's

12:38

rare but it does happen and I knew that already

12:40

, but it was like just showing up on the screen

12:42

that I was like , hmm , every time I felt

12:44

that lump , I felt really anxious and I was

12:46

like , okay , this is a sign that's telling me

12:48

that I need to dig further . And that's

12:51

when I reached out to my OBGYN I

12:53

had had a lump between my pregnancies that we ultrasounded

12:55

. It went away after a cycle

12:57

. So this time it was like , man

13:00

, it hasn't changed . I've had a cycle . It

13:02

didn't go away . And I remember talking

13:04

to my husband about it and he wasn't concerned

13:06

at all . Even looking back he was like I didn't think anything

13:08

of it and he said I think

13:10

most women at this point they would have waited a whole

13:12

another year to go back to their OBGYN

13:15

, have another breast exam and then maybe something he's

13:17

like . I am so grateful that you trusted

13:19

your intuition and kept an eye on it , and

13:22

so that's where I try to advocate for women too is

13:24

like if there's something that doesn't feel right

13:26

. I was just talking to somebody in social media just the other day and

13:29

she wanted to know my story and she had a lump that

13:31

they did say you're too young . And I said have

13:33

they had it checked out ? And she said no . And

13:36

I said I feel like a lump is

13:38

it's guilty until proven innocent

13:41

, no matter how old you are . And

13:43

so my hope is that , even if there is

13:45

some question there , people will get more

13:47

answers and make sure that it's nothing , because again

13:49

, in a year , from that original

13:52

feeling of the lump , what

13:54

am I ? Cancer have been a year later

13:56

without doing anything about it .

13:57

I don't know Right , exactly , and

13:59

, looking at your website , that whole idea of controlling the controllables

14:02

I think that's part of it . I mean , you

14:04

had the self agency to actually

14:06

communicate with medical practitioners and

14:09

I think that's a bigger hurdle for people who

14:11

are outside medicine . So , without

14:13

due respect to folks who are like , I tried to do that and

14:15

my doctor didn't listen to me . That's a hard

14:17

place to be and I've heard people's stories where

14:20

they try to self advocate and they get blocked , and

14:22

so reminding people that their

14:24

intuition is something they should not allow

14:26

other people to talk them out of is probably

14:28

top of mind in my thoughts .

14:30

Yeah , definitely , and I think it easier

14:33

said than done from this point too , is that if

14:35

you're up against that blockade where somebody's not

14:37

listening to you , we need to find a different medical provider

14:39

that's going to help you get those answers

14:41

or that peace of mind or a diagnosis

14:44

. God forbid .

14:45

Totally .

14:45

So , as you were going through treatment , did

14:48

you have a dietitian that

14:50

worked with you , did you have someone

14:52

you could bounce ideas off with , or

14:54

were you kind of like was that your thing ? You're

14:56

like , no , no , no , I got this .

14:59

That's interesting and I'm smiling

15:01

because I did have one and

15:04

it was an interesting experience

15:06

. We'll just say that . But

15:08

I did have some colleagues that I knew

15:11

really well that I did bounce some ideas

15:13

off of , and that wasn't a formal

15:15

experience that I had with them and

15:18

of course I always told them like not taking

15:20

this as medical advice by any means , but

15:22

I was fortunate enough to have some oncology dietitians

15:24

to be able to bounce some ideas off as well .

15:26

And .

15:26

I also believe that different dietitians

15:28

, just like different people , we provide different

15:31

things and different ideas and that was why

15:33

I was very open to having a dietitian

15:35

on my team , because they probably have

15:37

ideas that I could never think of Right

15:40

and I think we all bring something different to the table

15:42

and I was totally open to experiencing

15:44

that . I do feel very lucky

15:46

to have had the knowledge and resources that

15:48

I had going into it and I did

15:50

play off so much of my previous

15:52

experience to help me through treatment .

15:54

Was there anything that maybe

15:57

it was a recommendation that you typically

15:59

made to patients as they

16:01

were going through treatment , that when

16:03

you actually experienced maybe that

16:05

side effect or something that Suddenly

16:08

you're like , oh wow , that really works , or

16:11

maybe I'm going to change my recommendations from now

16:13

on ?

16:14

That's a really great question . I haven't actually been

16:16

asked that before , so

16:18

I would say that there wasn't anything

16:20

where I was like , oh wow , this doesn't

16:22

work , I need to change my recommendation . But what

16:24

I will say is that it really

16:27

brought just obviously a different

16:29

level of awareness and actually helped

16:31

me come up with more ideas . And an

16:33

example that I'll give is when I was

16:35

really struggling to get enough intake

16:37

in , I just I didn't have an appetite . I

16:39

was really struggling with that when we

16:41

talk about eating small , frequent meals

16:44

. But one thing that I did different was really

16:46

communicate to my husband and said I

16:48

was really well aware that I was like , unless you're

16:50

putting the food in front of me , I'm not going to eat

16:53

, but if you put it in front of me

16:55

, I will make a commitment to eating

16:57

that . And that kind of changed that game

16:59

when I was really struggling and I was

17:01

noticing more weight loss and I was like I

17:04

can't keep up with this , alison , what is

17:06

going to be something that's going to help

17:08

you get more of the calories and nutrition

17:10

that you need ? And to me it was being able to verbalize

17:13

that I'm not going to eat this unless it's put in front

17:15

of me and it also takes away some of that

17:17

. I don't have to decide what to eat and I also

17:19

don't have to put the energy into making it

17:21

, so that can really break

17:23

down some of the barriers that are there

17:26

when it comes to getting adequate nutrition . So

17:28

, from that perspective , that experience

17:31

gave me so much more insight about possibilities

17:33

that could work for people if they're experiencing

17:36

similar symptoms or things that I've experienced

17:38

.

17:38

Yeah , something that you talk about on

17:40

your website which I think I

17:42

don't know . I know I experienced it myself that

17:44

when you go through treatment there's

17:47

the logical brain and

17:50

then there's the emotional brain . I mean

17:52

it's just like having worked in cancer

17:54

centers . I knew logically

17:56

what was going on

17:59

and what to expect and it didn't matter . Once I

18:01

started going through treatment , like the kind of irrational

18:03

thoughts would come in , and

18:05

not during treatment , but after

18:07

treatment , I started to experience a

18:10

little bit of fear of foods

18:12

and you talk about that on your website

18:14

, how you help patients

18:16

dispel those fears around

18:18

food . What are some of the more common

18:21

fears that you see with patients

18:23

? Absolutely yeah .

18:25

I love how you described that , that you know

18:27

the fact but you also know what's

18:29

irrational . Even though you know

18:31

the background , you know the information , you're

18:33

like this is irrational , but yet I still continue

18:36

to think it and believe it

18:38

. So that's so true . But when it comes to

18:40

fear , there's so much

18:42

fear around cancer itself

18:44

and a lot of people come to me

18:47

, which I totally understand , because the

18:49

moment that I believe that I

18:51

had breast cancer , pretty much the doctor said

18:53

we know what we're looking at here , we

18:55

just need a biopsy to confirm it . Essentially , the

18:57

first thing that I did was go to

18:59

this great grocery store that we have

19:01

that has a wonderful salad bar and load

19:03

up on broccoli , sprouts and greens and legumes

19:06

and all these things . That was within my control

19:08

. Obviously , I knew that by going

19:10

to eat that delicious plate of amazing

19:12

food wasn't going to change the outcome

19:15

of my biopsy at that moment

19:17

. Right , but it was . This

19:19

is full control . This is what I have

19:21

control over and this is what I can do when everything

19:23

else is out of control , and nutrition is

19:26

that thing . It is one thing we can control

19:28

what we put in our mouth , how much we do it , how

19:30

much we are physically active , et cetera . But

19:32

I would say that the biggest things that patients come to me

19:34

with in terms of fear is

19:37

, well , number one . They're like I don't know what to

19:39

eat and I don't know what not

19:41

to eat because of so much misinformation

19:44

out there . And the biggest fears

19:46

definitely come from sugar

19:48

, and even the sugar in the form of

19:50

fruit . Right , can I eat fruit again

19:52

? Soy , especially as breast

19:54

cancer survivors , people are saying , well

19:56

, I thought I wasn't supposed to eat soy , and here's

19:58

this information that it actually can help reduce the risk

20:01

of recurrence . Is this something that I should be doing

20:03

? Carbohydrates themselves

20:05

and trying to really break down that fact

20:08

that we need carbohydrates . We just need

20:10

the right types of carbohydrates and that's what's

20:12

going to fuel us . So those are probably

20:14

the biggest ones . But I was talking to

20:16

a client who is a three-time

20:19

breast cancer survivor and she was

20:21

telling me we've been working together , dispelling

20:23

myths , set some goals , and

20:25

the best thing she told me last week was she goes

20:27

, I'm not afraid anymore . I'm

20:30

not afraid of the food

20:33

because I know that what I'm putting in my

20:35

body is nourishing me and

20:37

that's everything . If we can help reduce

20:39

the fear and I'm never going to say that

20:41

the fear is going to be completely gone , because I

20:43

think so many cancer patients can relate

20:45

there's always this level of fear , right

20:47

. But if we can help take away some of the

20:50

fear , especially the fear away from

20:52

food , that can be so beneficial for

20:54

us . That's going to be really

20:56

empowering for us as cancer patients

20:58

, and also , when we're empowered

21:00

, to me it's more than just about food

21:02

. It's about our mental health , our emotional

21:05

health , when we aren't scared

21:07

, when we can live the life that we

21:09

want to live because we have the energy

21:11

to do it right . It goes so much farther beyond

21:13

food and nutrition . It goes down

21:15

, in my opinion , to living a high-quality

21:18

life . Yeah , for sure .

21:20

So can we talk specifics about some

21:22

of the things within the dietary realm that you

21:24

might advise people ? Sure

21:26

, absolutely All right . So our

21:28

most popular episode that we've

21:30

ever done is called Sugar

21:33

. Does it Feed Cancer ? And so what

21:35

is your kind of elevator speech

21:37

about sugar and cancer ? Can

21:39

people eat it ? Is it our desserts ? Completely

21:42

off the docket

21:44

? How do you explain it to people and how

21:46

can they live a good rounded , high-quality

21:49

life and still manage their

21:51

relationship with this whole idea of sugar

21:53

and cancer ?

21:54

I think that one of the biggest things to

21:56

help reduce fear is to truly understand

21:58

the underlying why

22:00

. So I love to teach the why

22:03

, because I think if we can teach the why

22:05

, that can help reduce the fear and lead to empowerment

22:07

, rather than just saying eat sugar or don't

22:09

eat sugar . Let me start by saying this when

22:12

we eat carbohydrates , it

22:14

turns into glucose or sugar

22:16

, no matter if we're eating Skittles

22:19

which are literally just pure sugar , all

22:21

the way to broccoli that contains carbohydrates

22:24

. Those carbohydrates are going to be broken

22:26

down into glucose in our body . Glucose

22:29

is the primary fuel source

22:31

of every single cell in our body

22:33

. So we need glucose in

22:35

order to have energy . And what a lot

22:37

of people aren't familiar with is that if we don't

22:40

have glucose , our body knows how to make it . Our

22:42

liver can produce glucose , and we can create glucose

22:45

from protein , et cetera , so our body

22:47

is going to get glucose . Now , when it comes

22:49

to cancer itself , does

22:51

cancer feed off

22:53

of sugar ? Yeah , it certainly can

22:55

. It requires a heck of a lot of energy

22:57

to be cancer , to grow and divide and everything

23:00

, but cancer also feeds off of fatty acids

23:02

and amino acids and so forth . So

23:04

if we're taking away the entire

23:07

fuel source of glucose . Yes

23:09

, we're going to be taking away a fuel source from cancer , but

23:11

the cancer is going to get the fuel source it needs . At

23:13

the same time , if we take away

23:15

glucose from our bodies , we're

23:18

also going to be depriving our healthy cells from

23:21

the fuel that it needs in order to thrive

23:23

. So what I think is really difficult

23:25

and frustrating when it comes to the information

23:28

space about sugar feeding cancer is there's

23:30

almost two complete extremes Don't

23:33

eat any sugar , not even the form

23:35

of fruit , all

23:37

the way to sugar doesn't feed cancer . Here's

23:39

your Snickers bar , it doesn't matter . I

23:42

don't think either of them are true , and

23:44

research really shows that it doesn't necessarily

23:46

have to do with sugar itself , but

23:49

sugar's relationship to insulin resistance

23:51

and how insulin resistance plays

23:53

a role in increasing insulin

23:56

or causing hyperinsulinemia high

23:58

levels of insulin that really can lead to

24:00

the growth , development or proliferation

24:03

of cancer cells . So , all that

24:05

to say , we actually want to eat

24:07

foods that have carbohydrates . In

24:09

fact , the primary recommendation internationally

24:12

cancer recommendations , the American

24:14

Institute for Cancer Research , the World Cancer

24:16

Research Fund , the American Cancer Society , go

24:18

on and on is that we want

24:21

to eat a diet that's rich in fruits , vegetables

24:23

, whole grains and legumes and nuts and seeds and

24:25

make that a part of your usual diet

24:27

. All of these foods except

24:30

for nuts and seeds , they have small amounts of it , but fruits

24:32

, vegetables , whole grains and legumes are

24:34

all rich in carbohydrates . But the key

24:36

pieces there's so many different parts of it , but one

24:38

of the big key pieces is that these

24:40

carbohydrates contain fiber , and fiber

24:42

is going to help naturally regulate our blood sugars

24:45

, help reduce insulin resistance and

24:47

make sure that we're insulin sensitive

24:49

. Does that help make more sense about where

24:51

I lie in sugar-feeding cancer ? It's

24:54

not on either extreme , but kind of in

24:56

the middle , and we do need carbohydrates . We

24:58

just want to focus on whole , intact

25:00

carbohydrate rich foods .

25:02

Yeah , that's basically in line

25:04

with what I have always recommended to patients

25:06

too , which is it's about your blood

25:08

sugar , what is your glucose doing

25:11

, and we use that as our guide as

25:13

to how they should be treating sugars

25:15

in their diet . So if somebody already has some level of

25:17

insulin resistance , they may have to be

25:19

more controlling about their intake

25:21

than somebody who's very fit

25:23

, active and just chews up that glucose as

25:26

fast as they eat the carbohydrates . They

25:28

chew up that glucose because their muscles are active all the time

25:30

and so it's very individualized in

25:32

some ways .

25:33

Yeah , absolutely . And also keeping in point , like

25:35

, if there's that insulin resistance there

25:37

, making sure that we're making

25:39

efforts and goals towards reducing that

25:41

insulin resistance and becoming more

25:44

insulin sensitive . So I think there

25:46

is a lot of misunderstanding about insulin sensitivity

25:48

and insulin resistance and that we also

25:50

need to remember that high blood sugars

25:52

are a result of insulin

25:54

resistance . So if we're just focused

25:56

on purely looking at blood glucose

25:59

and not necessarily focused on insulin resistance

26:01

, we're focused on the symptom , not the root cause

26:03

. So there's this image that

26:06

I always like to show my patients

26:08

or create . This image for people is

26:10

OK , there's a sink and it's overflowing

26:12

with water . Okay , the sink , the faucet

26:15

is still turned on , the water is running and the

26:17

sink is overflowing , and there's two physicians

26:20

and they're mopping up the water

26:22

on the floor . Okay , but if they were to turn

26:24

off the sink , stop the water

26:26

from running , they could mop up the floor

26:28

easier and stop the problem from happening

26:30

. So it's really about okay , we can't just put

26:32

a bandaid on something . We need to focus . Yes

26:35

, the symptoms matter , right , high blood sugars

26:37

are not a good thing , especially in the long

26:39

, chronic case , but we

26:41

need to turn the faucet off so that we can really

26:43

focus on solving the root problem

26:45

.

26:46

A lot of what's been coming out in the last couple

26:48

years in the oncology

26:50

research circles is the effect of

26:52

alcohol and the risk of cancer

26:55

. So are you seeing a lot of that

26:57

with your patients or clients

26:59

? Are they asking you can I still drink

27:01

? I mean , how do you talk to your patients

27:04

about alcohol ?

27:04

Yeah , absolutely , that is a super common

27:07

one and really , truly

27:09

, alcohol itself is a carcinogen

27:11

. If we look at the list of cancer

27:13

causing substances , group

27:15

one a group one carcinogen

27:18

is , by definition , known to cause

27:20

cancer in humans . Okay , we have enough data

27:22

and research to support that . It increases

27:24

cancer risk . Alcohol is

27:26

on that group one carcinogen list

27:29

. Also on that group one carcinogen list is

27:31

processed meats . So these are two that

27:33

we either want to eliminate or really

27:35

try to reduce as much as possible , and

27:37

I think that when it comes to alcohol , that's

27:39

a lot harder for people because it's so much

27:42

more social right . It can be

27:44

something that is more of a treat

27:46

for people . At the end of the day , it's been

27:48

a stressful day . That's how they might unwind

27:50

. But in 2015 , the World Health Organization

27:53

declared that no amount of alcohol

27:55

was safe for breast cancer survivors . So

27:57

usually how I counsel a patient is number

27:59

one if you don't drink , don't start . You know the benefits

28:02

of Reservatrol that you would get from red wine can

28:04

be gotten from purple grapes , right

28:06

or some other areas of the diet . And

28:08

the other component is , as I'm usually digging

28:10

in with a patient to help understand why

28:13

do they want to drink , right ? Some people

28:15

, when you really talk to them about it , they really

28:17

only are interested in drinking because that's

28:19

what they do when they're social , but they might not even

28:22

actually like it , right ? So are there other

28:24

opportunities that we can help someone feel comfortable

28:26

in their social situation , and whether

28:28

that's having a mocktail or something

28:30

like that ? So it also comes down

28:32

, in my opinion , not just saying don't

28:34

drink , but also digging a little bit deeper into

28:37

understanding why do you drink , what do you enjoy

28:39

about it , and trying to work with that

28:41

individual and making an individual recommendation

28:44

to help reduce their risk of recurrence

28:46

, based on also where they find joy

28:48

. So it's that balancing act of those things . Does

28:50

that make sense ? Oh , absolutely yeah

28:52

.

28:53

I think that's a component that are

28:55

afraid to face themselves as to like

28:57

why

28:59

do I drink ? Like , oh , I only have a drink

29:01

every once in a while , whether it's social or to relax

29:03

. It's not always easy

29:05

to face that because it is so socially

29:08

acceptable .

29:09

Yeah , absolutely . I mean , I live in Wisconsin , right

29:11

, kind of the capital

29:13

of beer , cheese and sausage , right

29:15

Some of these really unfortunate

29:18

, not healthy things for us

29:20

, right ? You know , I've actually

29:22

grown up I've never drank alcohol

29:24

. It's something that I just chose myself

29:26

. I don't actually really enjoy it . So I've

29:28

been in a lot of positions socially

29:31

where people are uncomfortable

29:33

because I'm not drinking , right

29:35

, I'm not uncomfortable because I'm so used

29:37

to it , but they're uncomfortable because I'm

29:39

not drinking . And so I think

29:42

that's another really interesting part is

29:44

you shouldn't have to worry about making other

29:46

people comfortable . You should make a choice

29:48

that's good for you and for me . A choice that's

29:50

good for me is not drinking , and

29:52

you know , it doesn't mean that I don't go to events where there's

29:55

drinking or anything , but it's more of a . This is

29:57

just the choice that I'm making when I'm at these events

29:59

and , for lack of a better term , I don't care

30:01

what someone else chooses to do . I'm reflecting

30:03

on what's best choice for me .

30:05

Okay , so you brought up the Wisconsin

30:08

diet which I am very familiar with and

30:10

I had to kind of educate Tina a little

30:12

bit about drinking in Wisconsinably

30:15

. But having worked

30:17

in the Midwest , it's a lot different

30:19

. I think it's a lot more like

30:22

what Americans eat , as

30:24

opposed to living on the coast

30:26

where , especially in Oregon , people

30:28

are a little bit more aware of diet

30:31

and vegetables and that sort

30:33

of thing . So what tools do

30:35

you give to your patients

30:38

who maybe they never really ate

30:40

vegetables ? I know that when

30:42

I have been to restaurants or

30:44

bars in Wisconsin they have vegetables

30:47

and they're all deep fried . And I'm not picking

30:49

on Wisconsin in any way , it's like one

30:51

of my favorite places to be . But

30:54

I just mean in terms of working with people who

30:56

they may never have received any sort

30:58

of education as to what a healthier

31:00

diet would look like or a plant based diet

31:02

, because that's your

31:04

whole thing . And so how do you introduce

31:07

plants to somebody who

31:10

they may not really be familiar ?

31:12

with a lot of plant foods . So often I

31:14

joke that if I can do it in Wisconsin , you can do it anywhere

31:16

. If I can live a plant based lifestyle

31:18

, you can do it anywhere . But I have

31:20

clients that live very rarely in

31:22

different states and they can still

31:25

be successful . So the first part that

31:27

I again I like to teach the benefits

31:29

of plants . If I were to tell a heavy

31:31

meat and dairy eater like , nope

31:33

, you got to stop . Now it's time to eat plants . They're going to

31:35

look at me and be like who are you

31:38

? So it's really

31:40

kind of digging down into who are they and

31:42

where does that come from . And I really

31:44

like focusing on the perspective

31:46

of adding before subtracting

31:48

. And what I mean by that is by

31:50

not necessarily telling someone okay , no

31:52

more sausage , no more deli meat

31:54

, it's more of . Okay , let's

31:57

say they're going to eat a deli meat sandwich . Can

31:59

we add lettuce ? Can we add tomatoes ? Can

32:01

we add onions ? Can we add

32:03

more of these whole plant-based

32:05

foods to their diet before we worry about

32:07

subtracting ? And I think that can be so

32:10

beneficial because , depending on the individual

32:12

, you're meeting them where they are , and

32:14

that's super important is to meet

32:16

them where they are and give

32:18

them small little wins that

32:21

show them that they can do it and

32:23

that when they make these small sustainable

32:25

changes , it doesn't have to happen overnight

32:28

, it doesn't have to be a 180-degree change

32:30

, but adding these small little changes can

32:32

really lead to really impactful

32:34

long-lasting results . I like

32:36

to kind of pick on my brother , and my brother

32:39

is one of these guys who I thought would never

32:41

in his whole life ever consider not

32:44

eating meat or eating less meat , for

32:46

example . And my brother turned

32:48

to me one time and said I think I'm going to be a vegetarian

32:51

for a little while and just try it out . And I looked

32:53

at him and I was like who are

32:55

you and what have you done with my brother

32:57

, because I don't even understand where this

32:59

is coming from . And he did

33:01

that . He became a vegetarian and

33:04

now he's plant-based

33:06

, completely plant-based , no longer

33:08

eats meat or dairy or anything like that

33:10

. And kind of in the middle of this I

33:13

said you know , nate , I'm kind of curious

33:15

, where did this come from ? I

33:18

didn't say , oh , you really need to do this

33:20

, right ? And he's like well , of course I've

33:22

been watching you over the years and

33:24

I noticed how impactful

33:26

it was on your health and the energy

33:28

you had and your skin cleared

33:30

up all these things and he goes . You know

33:33

what really did it , though , he said one

33:35

time you told me . I said

33:37

I don't think you understand

33:40

how bad you feel because you've never

33:42

felt good , and he said that

33:44

really stuck with me . So when I started

33:46

adopting some more of these things and I started

33:48

noticing that I felt better and

33:51

better and better , and then I

33:53

wanted to dive into more of it . I

33:55

dove in and I've never turned back because

33:57

I feel so good that

34:00

I'm never going to go back to that , because I

34:02

remember how bad I felt once . I

34:04

felt good . So it's kind of working

34:07

with those . Obviously , I can be a lot more blunt

34:09

with my brother , right , but it's really taking

34:11

that person from where they are and

34:14

making those small little changes . I was just talking

34:16

to a patient before we got on this call

34:18

, that grew up as a dairy farmer . They grew up on a

34:20

dairy farm . Dairy was a huge part

34:23

of it . This individual was just diagnosed with type

34:25

2 diabetes and we were talking about milk

34:27

and he's like well , I just don't know if this is something

34:29

that I can change . And I said I don't think you

34:31

need to get rid of it completely . But can we dial

34:33

it back and can we add more of these things

34:35

? And he was totally agreeable to that because

34:37

I think honestly , if I told him absolutely

34:39

no dairy ever again , he probably would have

34:42

hung up on the call , right . So it's

34:44

about making those changes that

34:46

can help the patient really see some

34:48

powerful impact that's going to help them lead

34:50

even more in that direction .

34:52

Yeah , that is always the case where people

34:54

don't know how bad they feel because

34:56

you can talk to people and they're like I don't really

34:58

have any pain , or they are convinced that

35:00

they don't feel anything . But once the diet gets

35:02

really cleaned up and then they go off

35:05

and eat something from Subway and

35:07

a Coca-Cola or something , they feel

35:09

the consequences . It's interesting

35:11

how the human is hooked up in our

35:13

brains to not really notice because

35:15

it's such a slow process , absolutely

35:18

yeah , or you've just , yeah , you've

35:20

experienced it your whole life and

35:22

so it's normal

35:25

.

35:25

It's a normal thing , like on how you feel

35:27

, and then , yeah , you make those changes and yeah

35:30

, seeing that in patients when

35:32

they have that shift , it's yeah , it's

35:34

everything . Do

35:37

you have a lot of patients that ask you about

35:39

fasting , because that's another area

35:41

where I think there

35:43

still is a little controversy around that

35:45

in the oncology world . Do

35:48

you find that patients ask you about whether

35:50

fasting during treatment or

35:52

after treatment while they're in

35:54

survivorship ?

35:56

Absolutely this . I see an awful

35:58

lot and I also think that , since

36:00

I share my story and I'm very open about

36:02

sharing my story patients come specifically

36:05

often to me to talk about it . Because I did

36:07

fast for chemotherapy . That

36:10

was something that I employed in my own

36:12

journey and when I

36:14

decided that I was going to do it that

36:17

was where I bounced ideas off of my oncology

36:19

dietitian colleagues was really

36:22

because I had 12 weeks of

36:24

weekly chemotherapy . I had counseled

36:27

patients before on fasting

36:29

for every two week or every three week type

36:31

treatment protocols , but I had never

36:33

counseled someone through weekly chemotherapy

36:35

and I really thought to myself oh my gosh , is this going

36:38

to be sustainable ? Am

36:40

I going to be able to do it ? And I was scouring the

36:42

research to find more , see

36:44

if there was the same protocol that I had

36:46

and what was the results of it . So

36:49

I had some feedback from the dietitians

36:51

that I worked with , telling them what I wanted to do , asking

36:53

their suggestions , but also brought the

36:55

research available to my oncologist

36:57

. This

37:01

is where your oncologist , as your past colleague , is really

37:03

interesting , because I brought all the research

37:05

in and I knew what I wanted to do and I

37:07

was like okay about this and he goes . Allison

37:10

, I trust you , you know what

37:12

you're doing , go ahead . And

37:14

I think obviously that's a very unique experience

37:17

with the oncologist but he had worked with me before

37:19

. He knew who I was , what I did , how

37:21

I practiced et cetera . So I did go

37:23

ahead with fasting for myself . I

37:25

did have to kind of alter my

37:27

fasting protocol a little bit because I was

37:30

losing weight just a little bit too quickly , more

37:32

than I wanted to , and I was thought to myself

37:34

this is not gonna be sustainable for another . I

37:36

think it was maybe at eight cycles left or something

37:38

. Once I adjusted it a little bit , then

37:40

I was able to maintain my weight the rest of the

37:42

treatment and I had never

37:45

tried a cycle without fasting . So I can't

37:47

tell you what it would have been like if I didn't

37:49

fast . But my main reasoning

37:51

for fasting was to aim to try to reduce

37:53

the side effects of chemotherapy , especially

37:56

like the nausea , peripheral neuropathy

37:58

that comes through it and bowel changes

38:00

et cetera . And I tolerated

38:02

treatment very well and I personally

38:05

believe that played a role in how well I did when

38:07

you did fasting , because weekly is very

38:10

challenging .

38:11

did you do it for a three day spans and did

38:13

you just do a massive caloric restriction

38:16

, a vegan type diet ? How did you not

38:18

details but just how did you in general approach

38:20

that , because that would be challenging ?

38:22

Yeah , thanks for saying that , especially not necessarily

38:24

details and the reason I I'll definitely share

38:27

a little bit , because I always want to make sure that people don't

38:29

just take what I did and do it because it might not be

38:31

right for them , because fasting isn't right

38:33

for everybody and there's definitely considerations

38:36

to be made . You know I was coming in , thankfully

38:38

, to chemotherapy very healthy , very

38:40

strong , and so I

38:42

ended up starting

38:44

. So my first few fasts were about 65

38:48

hours I think , so it wasn't a full

38:50

three days , but that's

38:52

where it started and I was finding that was just

38:54

a little bit too long and not sustainable

38:56

. So I ended up shortening to about closer

38:58

to like 56 hours , with the

39:00

intention of it to be 48 hours , but just the

39:02

way chemo falls and when it starts , I

39:05

found the first day was the hardest . The

39:07

next day was always chemotherapy for me and

39:09

I think there's so many things that are going on

39:11

and you get a big dose of Benadryl so

39:13

you're super tired and so you just kind of don't notice

39:15

it as much . And then the third day , which

39:17

I was really only fasting for a few hours during

39:20

that day to make it a full 20 , 48

39:22

hours I found was the easiest . I felt great

39:24

, and that probably had something to do with the steroids

39:27

that I was given during the course of treatment for

39:29

pre-meds . But also , I always say that I don't

39:31

know if it was necessarily like this effect of me

39:33

knowing like , oh , I'm gonna eat later today , so this is

39:35

no big deal . So I'm not sure if it was

39:37

really . Did I feel that good and was the third day the

39:39

easiest , or was it ? I know I'm gonna eat and so

39:41

I'm gonna feel good . It was very challenging

39:44

. I look back and think to myself how

39:46

did I do that for 12 weeks ? I

39:48

don't even know . But honestly , I

39:51

think , just looking back , I reminded myself

39:53

of the research . I reminded myself of why

39:55

I was doing it , why it was

39:58

important to me and I

40:00

say it oftentimes that sure

40:02

, I did treatment and everything that

40:04

I've done for cancer

40:06

for myself , but I also did it for

40:08

my family , right , I did it for my husband

40:10

, I did it for my kids , because they

40:12

deserve to have a mom that's here for a long time

40:15

and that's healthy , and so I also

40:17

reminded myself of my why , and my why

40:19

was my family . So , with

40:21

that being said , I do get a fair amount of people that

40:23

come to me because they hear about me fasting

40:25

. They know that I've coached people through it . I do

40:28

talk my one-on-one clients because

40:30

I do have that one-on-one care with them . I

40:32

can provide that recommendation and that information

40:34

if it's something that they want to . So

40:36

that's where we talk about it . And then intermittent fasting

40:38

comes up quite a bit and intermittent

40:40

fasting there's so many different types of

40:42

intermittent fasting . Right , you can do 13 hour

40:45

fast overnight . You can do a 16 , eight

40:47

, when you know where you fast for 16 hours

40:49

and have an eight hour eating window . You can have a 24

40:51

hours . There's so many different ones and that's

40:54

where , again , I think it depends on the individual

40:56

. I think the research is pretty

40:58

promising where it's at . I think we're gonna continue

41:00

to see more research come out about this and

41:03

also help us understand who it's appropriate

41:05

for and who might it not be appropriate for

41:07

, and how to do it the right way . So I think

41:09

there's more to come in that area , but I

41:11

do think it's pretty promising and pretty awesome .

41:14

And it is one of the controllables , I suppose to

41:17

an extent .

41:18

Yes , absolutely , it is one of the controllables

41:20

.

41:20

I really like the idea of understanding

41:22

that controlling the controllables and you

41:25

know we're naturopaths , You're a dietitian

41:27

we all talk about diet and supplements

41:29

and exercise and all these great things

41:32

, and I wanna just refer back to what you said in the beginning

41:34

, which is also stress

41:36

levels , our nervous system , controlling

41:38

the controllables . That's so much more than diet , like

41:41

you mentioned . So I appreciate the

41:43

work you're doing .

41:44

Yeah , I tell people all the time like I'm a dietitian

41:46

, of course I'm gonna talk to you about nutrition , like I'm

41:49

a nerd . That's totally what I'm gonna talk about , right

41:51

, but that's not to say the

41:53

other things don't matter . And

41:55

I think , when it comes to my own journey

41:57

, that was probably the biggest eye-opening

42:00

experience for myself was sure

42:02

, before I was diagnosed , I

42:05

followed a plant-based diet . I wasn't doing everything

42:07

perfect by any means . I was also postpartum

42:10

with two kids , right . So you know , my sleep

42:12

probably wasn't great , you know . But

42:14

how I managed stress

42:17

was not okay . How

42:19

I worked through my emotions

42:21

, or didn't work through my emotions , was

42:24

not okay . And you know

42:26

, I think of myself . I'm a very different

42:28

person than I was pre-cancer and

42:30

I actually think for the better . I think of a better

42:32

version of myself . And did I change

42:35

diet and nutrition ? I didn't overhaul

42:37

, but I honed in on different things in my diet

42:40

and nutrition and changed things from my pre-cancer

42:42

to my post-cancer self . My physical activity

42:44

has always been on pretty par

42:46

levels . I was a college athlete and that's

42:49

always been a huge part of me . But

42:51

when it comes to those other

42:53

aspects not having

42:55

boundaries and not holding them , not

42:57

working through the emotions , not managing stress

43:00

. Well , those things were

43:02

huge . It was a huge kick in the pants

43:04

to change that and I'm not perfect

43:06

at it now , but I have come a long way

43:08

. And I was talking to

43:10

my cancer counselor and we were talking . I told her

43:12

like I have a new motto for myself . She's like

43:14

yeah , and I said I don't do

43:16

overwhelm . And she's like that's

43:18

a really great motto , allison . She's like I love

43:21

it for you , but you're gonna have to add something else to

43:23

it . And I was like what's that ? She goes , I

43:25

don't do overwhelm and sometimes

43:27

that will feel uncomfortable because

43:29

we're so used to always

43:32

doing . I'm a type A high

43:34

achieving , perfectionist type personality

43:36

. It's hard to try not to

43:38

do something perfect or aim

43:41

for that and that's gonna feel uncomfortable . But

43:43

honestly , that uncomfortable work

43:45

has been where I've made some of my biggest progress

43:47

over the last two years since my diagnosis

43:49

. And not to say that I'm thankful

43:51

for cancer , but I

43:54

don't know that I would have learned those lessons if

43:56

it weren't for cancer , and for that I'm

43:58

grateful . I wish something not

44:00

life-threatening would have taught me that , but I'm not

44:02

sure that something less would have

44:04

been enough . So my hope is that by not

44:07

only sharing nutrition and the empowerment that

44:09

comes from that and controlling the controllables

44:11

, but sharing my journey about changing

44:13

my mental health , my emotional health , how I

44:15

handle those things , can be

44:17

an eye-opening experience for somebody else that

44:19

hopefully doesn't have to wait until they

44:21

may or may not experience a life-threatening

44:23

diagnosis to make those changes .

44:25

I love it , I love it , and so

44:28

is there anything else ?

44:28

you wanted to talk about Lea . No

44:31

, but I do well . Yes , and

44:33

hopefully , allison , you'll want to talk about it too . It's

44:35

the program that you offer

44:37

for people . You have a website

44:40

, which it's a great website . I

44:42

signed up for your newsletter . I

44:45

got your download the 10

44:47

high protein plant-based snacks yeah

44:50

. So can you go more into the program that

44:53

you offer for clients ? Yeah , absolutely .

44:56

Thank you for asking about that . So

44:59

I know I'm always biased from the standpoint of like it's a great

45:01

program , right . I have so much fun with it and

45:03

that's because I feel like I'm so privileged to work with

45:06

just some of the best people there is . So my main program it's called

45:08

the Wholesome Journey and

45:12

it really talks about you know , my business is called Wholesome

45:14

Really not only from wholesome nutrition but

45:17

again from that whole person health program and health perspective

45:19

. So the group program is

45:21

my main program and it's primarily

45:24

cancer survivors or individuals that have

45:26

high risk for cancer , but anybody

45:28

is welcome that is just interested in using

45:31

more of a plant predominant nutrition approach

45:33

to help reduce their risk of cancer and its recurrence

45:35

. And in that program I have online curriculum

45:38

where it's a lot of that teaching . I talk a lot

45:40

about the why , right , and I

45:42

like to really dive into some of those teachings

45:44

to really motivate people to incorporate

45:47

the things that I recommend . So there's just online curriculum

45:49

, there's group community and there's also

45:51

group Q&A sessions . They

45:54

can ask any questions they want with me . But also

45:56

what a great way to connect with

45:58

individuals from literally not

46:00

only just around the country but around the world

46:02

that are going through a similar experience

46:04

, and I always tell people you know we don't have

46:06

the exact same experience right , lea

46:08

, you and I we have . We're both cancer survivors

46:11

, but we don't have the same exact journey

46:13

, but we have some shared experiences right

46:15

and so how we can connect with other

46:17

survivors or other individuals that

46:19

are going through a similar journey , that

46:22

is transformative and that's probably my favorite

46:24

part of the group program . I also offer one-on-one

46:26

coaching . That has the group coaching

46:29

, but also that one-on-one , if someone's looking for more

46:31

of that individual attention , really focusing

46:33

on that , and that's where I work also with

46:35

a lot of patients that are going through active treatment

46:37

so we can help manage their side effects with nutrition

46:40

and make changes as they go through treatment . So

46:42

, yeah , those are the primary programs . If

46:44

anybody's interested in learning more , they can definitely reach

46:46

out to me , visit my website . I'd be happy

46:48

to chat more about it .

46:50

And your website is wholesomellccom

46:52

. That is correct yep

46:54

Okay just so , everyone , you

46:56

don't have to go to show notes . I just told you right

46:58

now .

47:01

Absolutely Yep , wholesomellccom

47:04

and I'm most active on social media , on

47:06

Instagram , and that's at wholesomecancernutrition

47:09

.

47:12

Yeah , and I love everything that you're doing on Instagram

47:14

too , so if our listeners

47:16

aren't following Alison , you need to

47:18

. She's great . Thank you so much . I appreciate

47:20

that .

47:21

All right . Well , thank you so much for joining

47:23

us today . This has been a great conversation

47:25

. I hope our listeners gained a little knowledge and

47:28

, of course , as always , they can write to

47:30

us at our email , thecancerpodcom

47:32

, and go over to Instagram

47:35

, as you're following wholesome Wait , wholesomecancerno

47:38

Nutrition .

47:40

Yep at Instagram , it's wholesomecancernutrition

47:43

Awesome Okay .

47:45

So you can follow us too .

47:46

You can probably type in wholesome and I'll pop out .

47:50

But yeah , no , this has been great . I'm

47:53

so glad that we finally got to talk in person

47:56

.

47:58

Likewise , thank you so much for having me , tina

48:00

and Leigh . I really appreciate it Anytime

48:02

.

48:04

Thanks for listening to the Cancer Pod . Remember

48:06

to subscribe , review and rate

48:08

us wherever you get your podcasts . Follow

48:11

us on social media for updates and

48:13

, as always , this is not medical advice

48:15

. These are our opinions . Talk

48:18

to your doctor before changing anything related

48:20

to your treatment plan . The Cancer Pod

48:22

is hosted by me , dr Leia Sherman , and

48:25

by Dr Tina Kaser . Music

48:27

is by Kevin McLeod . See

48:29

you next time .