0:00

Hello and welcome to the Career

0:02

Changers podcast . I'm Elisa

0:04

Martiniig and I'm the founder

0:07

and editor-in-chief of the Career Changers

0:09

. I'm definitely one of them

0:11

. I learned from my experience that

0:14

following our dreams requires

0:16

courage , self-awareness and a lot

0:18

of inner work . I love to discover

0:20

stories of career change and share them

0:22

with the world as a source of inspiration

0:25

for all those who are still searching

0:27

. Career changes are not

0:29

straightforward chronology written in our

0:31

CVs , but the sum-up of

0:33

our dreams , ambitions , failures

0:36

and successes . The

0:39

Career Changers is an online community

0:42

that aims to inspire thousands of people

0:44

during their journey to self-realization

0:46

. We discover and share inspirational

0:49

real-life stories of career change . We

0:51

inspire people that are thinking to change

0:54

career . We support people

0:56

that want or need to change

0:58

career but feel stuck or

1:00

lacking confidence and clarity . We

1:02

connect and collaborate with organizations

1:05

that support career change across different

1:07

industries . I believe

1:09

that thinking to have only one job

1:12

or career in our life is a limiting

1:14

belief unless the job or

1:16

that career make us happy . Life

1:19

is a journey and , with one

1:21

third of our lives spent working

1:23

, it would be unimaginable

1:25

to not have a desire to explore

1:28

new avenues . Welcome

1:30

to the Career Changers podcast . Hello

1:35

and welcome to a new episode

1:37

of the Career Changers . Our

1:40

guest today is Dr Wallace

1:42

J Nichols , a marine biologist

1:45

with over 30 years of experience

1:47

in marine science , conservation

1:50

and education , also a author

1:52

of the best-seller BlueMine how

1:54

Water Makes you Happier , more Connected

1:57

and Better at what to Do . He's

1:59

also the founder of the BlueMine movement

2:01

, which explores the cognitive , emotional

2:04

, psychological and social benefits

2:07

of water . On the top

2:09

of that is a research

2:12

associate at the California Academy

2:14

of Sciences , a senior

2:17

fellow at the Center for the Blue Economy

2:19

and a co-founder of

2:21

several non-profit organizations

2:23

that promote ocean health

2:25

, well-being and stewardship . Today

2:28

it is here to inspire us with this career

2:31

journey and to explain why

2:33

we are happier when we are surrounded

2:35

by water . Welcome

2:38

, dr Nichols . Thank you so much for joining

2:40

us .

2:41

Thank you for inviting me , my pleasure .

2:44

So let's start with your background . How

2:47

did you start your professional life or

2:49

better , what was your first job ?

2:52

Well , you know , I loved the water ever

2:55

since I was a little kid and

2:57

I wanted to align my

2:59

work and my career with my love

3:01

of water , and so I

3:04

decided to become a marine

3:06

biologist . One

3:09

of my first jobs was on a sea turtle beach

3:11

in Costa Rica and

3:13

the job was essentially to walk

3:15

the beaches all night looking

3:18

for turtles and then making sure

3:20

the eggs were protected , and measuring

3:23

the turtles and tagging them , and

3:26

I loved it . I loved

3:28

the despite the mosquitoes and the humidity

3:31

and the lightning . I

3:34

loved the work . I loved

3:36

being by the ocean . I loved being

3:38

out there with the animals , jumping

3:40

in the ocean in the middle of the night when it was hot

3:44

, and working to protect endangered

3:47

species . So I

3:49

signed up for that

3:52

career and it's

3:55

had many twists and

3:57

turns , but I

4:00

really enjoyed it .

4:02

So I guess you are one of the few people

4:04

that managed to realize their dream

4:07

job of when they were a child

4:09

. Did you have any other thoughts

4:11

, or were always focused

4:13

on something related

4:16

to the ocean and the sea ?

4:18

You know , even when I think back as a kid

4:20

and as a young person I

4:23

was really interested in healing

4:25

people and healing nature

4:28

, and at

4:30

the time I was told that you

4:32

need to choose . You can't be

4:34

a doctor , a medical doctor

4:37

, and heal people and then

4:39

also be a doctor , a PhD

4:41

, and heal the planet . Those are two

4:43

different things . So

4:46

I had to make a decision , but it turns out

4:48

that at

4:51

this point in my career those two desires

4:53

have merged both the

4:56

human health but the

4:58

health of nature and so

5:00

I feel very fortunate

5:02

that my passions

5:04

, my lifelong passions , line

5:07

up with my career . I think

5:09

that feels good

5:11

.

5:12

And I think this is what everyone

5:14

is aiming for , and especially our

5:17

listeners . So it sounds great to

5:19

know that you managed to fulfill

5:21

your potential and also your vision

5:24

for your life . So

5:26

what is your educational background

5:28

? What did you do to become the expert

5:31

you've become in your field

5:33

?

5:34

Well , I think language is important . I studied

5:36

abroad in Spain when I was

5:38

in high school as an exchange student

5:40

, so I started learning Spanish . As

5:44

an undergraduate I studied biology

5:47

in Spanish and I went on

5:49

to graduate school and studied economics

5:51

and public policy . And

5:53

then I went on to more graduate school and got

5:55

my PhD in evolutionary

5:59

biology and wildlife ecology

6:01

. So I

6:03

went to school for 24

6:05

years , which makes

6:07

my kids' heads explode when I tell

6:09

them how many years of education

6:12

I've received . But

6:15

I think when I look back on it , it

6:17

was all about becoming

6:20

a good problem solver and

6:22

acquiring the tools and

6:24

the knowledge , the depth of knowledge needed

6:27

to help solve big

6:30

problems , and from

6:32

the economics and the language and

6:34

the ecology and behavior

6:36

, human behavior aspects . So

6:40

it looks like a bunch of different things , but when you put

6:42

it all together , it's a good kit

6:44

for doing this work

6:46

.

6:47

It may really sense to me and also I think

6:49

that initially , when

6:51

we are younger , we start

6:53

with our first choice

6:56

at university or

6:58

whatever

7:00

else we choose , but then later

7:02

on is more of a

7:05

more meaningful way

7:07

of studying because we follow our

7:09

passion , our interest . So

7:12

I guess that learning is part of

7:14

our lives and is an ongoing process

7:16

. So let's go back

7:18

to your career , because

7:20

it's been a long journey since when you started

7:23

. So how did you progress after

7:27

the beginning ? After going

7:29

and looking for Tartarus

7:31

night on the beach ?

7:34

Well , you know , I noticed in myself

7:37

my entire life , and I've noticed

7:39

in the people around me my colleagues

7:41

and family members and friends

7:43

that when I'm near

7:46

the water , or when I'm with

7:48

people near the water , they

7:50

get calmer and they

7:52

get more compassionate

7:55

, you might say , or more open , and the quality

7:57

of our conversations shifts . We

8:01

become more open to each other

8:03

, maybe even more creative

8:06

. And I started

8:08

paying more attention to that and wondering

8:11

about it and I thought

8:13

, wow , there's got to be a book out

8:15

there about this emotional

8:18

response to water and nature

8:20

. And so I wanted to read that

8:22

book and then apply it to my professional

8:25

work , because I thought it would be very useful

8:27

to add that to our

8:29

, to the way we communicate about

8:32

nature and about the ocean . And

8:34

so when I went looking for this book I really wanted

8:36

to read , I couldn't find it and

8:40

because I hadn't been written , and

8:43

so then I tried to get other people

8:45

to write the book that I wanted to read

8:47

, and I was not successful

8:49

. And then it finally

8:51

just landed in my lap to write , to

8:54

write this book that I didn't

8:56

set out to write . I set out to find

8:59

it and read it . I

9:01

pitched the idea to a man named Dr Oliver

9:03

Sacks who's a great neurologist

9:06

and a great writer and a lifelong

9:08

water lover , and I just

9:10

dreamed of him writing this book that

9:13

I could read . But he said it's a

9:15

fine idea , you

9:17

do it . And

9:20

so that set me off on a different direction

9:22

, away from sea turtles and towards

9:25

neuropsychology and

9:27

human behavior and

9:30

well-being . It

9:32

took me five years to research and

9:35

write this book , blue Mind , and

9:38

it's kind of had a life

9:40

of its own . It's sort of taken my career over

9:43

in a way . I still work with

9:45

sea turtles and ocean

9:47

conservation , but now I'm

9:50

applying blue mind science

9:52

and the blue mind theory to

9:54

our work to protect

9:57

nature , species and restore lakes

9:59

and rivers and oceans and

10:02

encourage people to spend more time in

10:04

the water . So

10:06

that's kind of how that went . It was kind of my

10:09

career studying sea turtles was going

10:11

just fine , having

10:14

any problems . It was a solid

10:16

academic and nonprofit career

10:19

. And then I had this idea

10:21

about a book I wanted to read which

10:24

took my career in a different direction because

10:26

I had to write it first and

10:29

then represent the

10:31

ideas in the world . So

10:33

that was not expected

10:35

. I didn't set out to write

10:38

a bestseller or work

10:41

in the wellness space . But here

10:44

we are .

10:46

Well , and it seems that with your book , you have inspired

10:49

so many people around the world and

10:52

probably giving the

10:55

words to express their way they feel

10:57

. Because I personally

10:59

, well , I have a story

11:01

that my mom , when she was

11:03

expecting me , she was on the beach , and

11:06

so there's this story that I

11:08

really , really love the sea , and

11:10

and sometimes we joke

11:12

and we say , oh , maybe it was because until

11:14

the day when I was born , I was already

11:16

there hearing the sounds of the waves

11:19

, and so I experienced

11:21

that feeling of regeneration and

11:24

calm , and I

11:26

always dreamed to live by the

11:28

sea , but I haven't found my place yet

11:30

. I love many places . So

11:33

, going back to your career , before

11:35

reaching the point of writing

11:38

the book , or maybe even after

11:40

, for sure , water

11:42

has been probably something

11:45

that has inspired you , but did you

11:47

meet anyone in your life that's

11:49

been a major source of inspiration

11:52

during your career journey ?

11:55

You know , I've met so many people , both

11:58

working in ocean conservation

12:01

and research , as well as people

12:04

working to heal

12:08

each other through surf therapy

12:11

and dive therapy , and

12:13

just so so many inspiring

12:15

groups that are putting blue mind

12:17

science into action and

12:20

helping the people who need

12:22

it the most . So , whether they're

12:25

veterans or first responders

12:27

or teachers or

12:29

journalists that are burnout . There

12:32

are all these programs that are are

12:35

starting , that have started over

12:37

the last decade to

12:40

to help people and connect them with their water

12:42

. I'm just inspired every day

12:44

by the people

12:46

I get to interact with , whether

12:49

it's somebody reaching out on social media

12:51

or just an article

12:53

or having conversations like this one

12:55

with you and hearing your story and

12:59

it's interesting , you bring up a point . The

13:03

number one thing I hear from people

13:05

is that

13:07

they felt like their

13:09

connection with water , this

13:11

thing I call blue mind , was

13:14

unique and they didn't know how to explain it . And

13:17

then they read my book and they

13:19

go wow , I'm not alone and

13:21

I have words for

13:23

this way that I feel , and I hear that

13:25

a lot . I hear that

13:27

people have felt intuitively that

13:31

water calms them and boost

13:33

their creativity and makes them feel

13:35

more whole , but

13:37

didn't have the words to describe

13:40

it or to justify

13:42

it , and so it's

13:44

been wonderful to see how

13:47

giving something a name allows

13:50

people to increase

13:53

its value , and

13:55

when they increase its value

13:57

, then they prioritize it and

14:00

protect it , and so

14:02

if that leads to people protecting their lakes

14:04

and their rivers and their oceans because

14:07

they recognize its full value

14:09

, I feel like that's

14:11

a solid contribution to

14:15

this work that I've made .

14:18

Well , let's talk about the positive impact of

14:21

water on our lives . You

14:23

are the expert so you can explain it very

14:25

well . I read your book Sometimes

14:28

. I try to explain it to people Some

14:30

day have this instinctive reaction . They

14:32

say oh yes , this is true , and

14:34

I think there are more logical people that

14:36

you need to have the skills and the knowledge

14:39

to give the right answer

14:41

, to explain why . So

14:43

why are we drawn to the ocean

14:46

or to the sea each summer

14:48

as human beings ?

14:52

I think the best way to explain Blue Mind is

14:54

to start with Red Mind , and Red

14:56

Mind is our new normal

14:58

. It's our screen-based

15:01

life , it's our to-do list . We

15:04

wake up . A

15:06

lot of people wake up and the first thing they do is

15:09

look at their phone before they even get

15:11

out of bed . And

15:13

that's really new for humanity to

15:16

be so distracted and

15:19

so connected and so

15:21

full of information , good

15:24

news and bad news all the time , and

15:28

that will eventually cause

15:30

anxiety and stress . We

15:35

are dealing with an epidemic of anxiety on

15:38

Earth right now for all kinds of reasons . Part

15:41

of it is our overconnection

15:44

and overstimulation , whether

15:46

it's social media and screens of all sorts . So

15:48

Red Mind is

15:51

our new normal . When

15:53

we step away and step back from Red Mind and

15:57

we don't wanna stay in Red Mind mode for very long it's really

15:59

useful . That's a very useful mind state . It

16:04

helps us strive and get things

16:06

done and compete and fight

16:08

for what we love , even . But if you stay

16:10

in Red Mind you will burn out . You

16:14

will end up in Grey Mind , which is not

16:16

really useful and that's not good . So

16:20

Blue Mind is when we step away

16:22

from the distractions and

16:25

the screens and the information overload and

16:28

we stop grinding and competing

16:31

and we give ourselves a rest

16:33

. We have our brain , a rest in

16:35

our body , and water is the shortcut

16:38

. It just really gets you

16:40

there quickly . You can close your eyes and think

16:42

of water . A

16:46

lot of people who guide meditative practices will

16:49

use water imaginary water as

16:51

a tool . You can get in the bathtub , you

16:54

can get in a pool or a spa . You can step

16:56

outside on your deck in the rain or

16:59

look at the clouds or the fog . You

17:02

can immerse yourself in a pool

17:04

or a river or a lake or an ocean

17:06

and walk on the beach . You

17:09

can paddle a boat all kinds of things . You

17:12

can do all kinds of things . Water

17:15

will help you move

17:18

away from your red mind , calm

17:20

your stress hormones , boost

17:23

your feel good neurochemicals

17:26

and it'll

17:28

help boost your creativity and help you

17:30

calm down so that you can come back

17:33

and work hard again the next day

17:35

or the next week . And

17:37

so there's

17:39

a physiological response that we have to

17:42

the sound of water , to the sight of water

17:44

. Of course , when we touch the water

17:46

, we have a response . When

17:49

we float in the water , visually

17:52

, auditorily and somatically

17:54

, we get a break . A

17:56

brain takes a break , but

17:58

it switches into this blue mind state

18:00

, doesn't turn off , but

18:03

it switches into a different state which

18:05

allows us for insight and

18:07

creativity , calm

18:10

, compassion all these great

18:12

qualities that are harder to do

18:15

when we're in that red mind

18:17

mode . It's hard to be creative

18:19

. Sometimes when you're in that

18:21

anxious red mind mode . You

18:25

may be able to get things

18:27

done through brute force or through energy

18:29

and action , but

18:32

it's not your most creative or

18:34

collaborative place . So

18:38

we kind of need blue mind and red mind

18:40

in our lives . I'm not just saying you

18:42

live blue mind all the time . You do

18:44

need your red mind , and

18:47

it's good to stay out of gray mind . Although

18:49

gray mind is your body saying

18:53

we're shutting down . It's

18:57

kind of your safety switch . It's

19:01

not a good place to be , though when

19:04

you burn out . It's hard to get back

19:06

from that and it's not good for

19:08

your career , it's not

19:11

good for your business or

19:13

your organization to have a

19:16

team that's burning out . So

19:19

blue mind is one tool to help avoid

19:21

that and stay productive .

19:25

So here are the career changes . We talk a lot about

19:27

our inspirations , how

19:30

to make our lives better , to find

19:32

our purpose

19:36

in life , and so

19:38

how can we be near

19:40

water ? I know

19:42

you say under , in a near

19:45

close , in any sort of fall . I

19:47

need to be joking about that . So

19:50

how can water make us better

19:52

at what we do ?

19:55

Well , you know , we will go through

19:57

changes in our lives Career changes

19:59

, relationship changes

20:01

the world is just always

20:04

changing , people move

20:06

to different locations and

20:09

those are all stressful activities

20:11

and so if you

20:13

can use blue mind and

20:15

your relationship with water to

20:18

navigate those changes , those

20:21

changes in your career

20:23

, in your life , maybe

20:26

it goes more smoothly . Maybe

20:29

it's a way

20:31

for you to step back

20:33

and think about what you really want to do

20:36

during those times of change . I

20:39

have done that myself . I've

20:42

had , like everybody seems

20:44

to have had the last several years many

20:47

changes , some

20:49

positive , some catastrophic , some

20:52

medical situations

20:54

and loss of life and

20:57

wildfires and the pandemic

20:59

, and career shifts and

21:01

uncertainty , and

21:04

I've needed to read my own book

21:06

and apply it and

21:08

reemphasize it for

21:10

myself . It's

21:13

really easy , even

21:15

though I wrote this book called Blue Mind , it's

21:17

really easy for me to forget to do it

21:20

because I'm trying to help

21:22

other people and

21:24

then burn out myself . So

21:27

I think that's really the key . If

21:31

you're feeling that red mind mode and

21:33

you might be moving into gray mind , just

21:36

put your head up and look around for the nearest water

21:39

and it could be a shower

21:41

or a bathtub , it could be a pool , could

21:44

be wild water outside and

21:46

get to it , go spend

21:48

some time there . It

21:51

always helps . It

21:53

never makes your life worse . It always

21:55

helps , and people

21:57

always say that was worth doing

22:00

, it was worth the time , it was

22:02

worth the effort , and

22:04

so that would be my advice . If

22:07

you're in a transition

22:09

, career-wise or a life

22:12

transition , put

22:15

this idea of blue mind in your

22:17

toolkit and use it every day in

22:20

some way .

22:22

So there is a lot of talk about environment

22:25

and oceans

22:27

and seas are

22:31

at the center of attention

22:33

, generally not for good reasons . So

22:37

it makes me

22:39

really sad because as a sea lover , of course

22:41

sometimes I see things I don't

22:43

want to see . What is the connection

22:46

between public health

22:48

and healthy ocean ?

22:51

Yeah , you know , we are so connected to

22:53

the oceans and the waters all

22:55

around us . Whether we realize it or not

22:58

, we

23:01

breathe oxygen that comes

23:03

from the water , from

23:05

the ocean . We eat food

23:07

. The ocean is

23:10

in charge of our climate

23:13

and our global ecosystem

23:16

, and

23:18

it gives us these massive emotional

23:20

benefits . And so

23:23

I think traditionally we

23:25

have , as humans , we've undervalued

23:28

the ocean , and when we undervalue

23:31

anyone or anything , bad

23:33

things happen . So when

23:36

we undervalue each other , bad

23:38

things happen . When we

23:40

undervalue the ocean , bad things happen

23:42

to the ocean , and so part

23:44

of what this conversation

23:47

is about is fixing the value equation

23:49

, helping people

23:51

understand that a healthy ocean is

23:54

not just good for seafood and

23:56

sea life . It's also

23:59

good for your mental health , it's also

24:01

good for child development

24:03

, it's also good for stress

24:05

management . It's

24:08

medicine for the people who need it the most

24:11

, the people who serve us every day and

24:14

stress themselves out to protect

24:16

us . They need the ocean

24:19

so that they can calm themselves down

24:21

, be whole and then come back

24:23

and serve that

24:25

capacity again . And

24:28

so that's a really different way of talking

24:30

about the ocean and

24:32

helping build a stronger

24:34

movement to protect and restore

24:37

the life that remains in

24:39

the ocean . Yes , we have some pretty

24:41

big challenges . We

24:44

read about them in the news every

24:46

day and I think

24:48

the key is to not get overwhelmed

24:50

and saddened

24:54

to the point where you

24:56

can't act . That's

25:00

more gray mind . You know , eco anxiety

25:03

is a real thing , even

25:05

in our children . They are . Our

25:08

kids are kind of freaking out because

25:10

of the bad news . That's

25:13

not healthy . So we

25:15

need to be able to talk about the problems

25:17

but also pivot

25:19

into a place of collaborative

25:22

, creative , compassionate

25:25

action . And

25:27

that's where blue mind comes in . So

25:30

you jump in the water together and you splash

25:32

around and you smile and laugh and

25:34

then you start planning on how to fix that

25:37

water that you love . And

25:39

the people who are the best warriors

25:41

that I've met in my life are the people who

25:44

are the most in love with

25:47

what they fight for Not

25:49

scared , but in love and

25:52

that's more sustainable and

25:55

more likely to lead to the place we

25:57

want to go than

25:59

fearful warriors

26:02

swinging around

26:04

angrily . So

26:07

that's that's really the message I try to share

26:10

with my colleagues is make sure you're

26:12

practicing blue mind

26:14

while you're

26:16

working and fighting

26:18

for the ocean

26:20

, because you will burn out

26:22

if you don't , if you don't take care of yourself

26:25

, take care of your heart , take care of your mind , take

26:27

care of your soul , take care of each

26:29

other , because

26:32

if we burn out , if our ocean warriors

26:34

burn out , our

26:36

environmental warriors burn out , we're

26:39

in big trouble . We can't , we can't afford

26:41

that . So that's

26:43

my , my main message . And you

26:45

know , in these times of change , with you know , we've

26:47

got wildfires warming

26:49

like record , water

26:51

temperatures in the ocean , coral reefs

26:54

struggling , plastic

26:56

in the ocean . We have big problems

26:58

to solve , but

27:00

we're only going to solve them , I think , from

27:03

a place of love and compassion

27:05

and creativity . And

27:09

we need it , and it's going to take a while . So

27:12

you need to sign up for the long

27:14

haul . You know , saving sea

27:16

turtles takes decades

27:19

, decades and decades because

27:21

they're slow , growing late

27:23

, maturing big animals , and

27:26

so , if you're signing up for

27:28

this project , sign

27:31

up for the next 25 years and

27:33

dig in . It's not a it's

27:35

not a one year project . It's a

27:38

long term commitment .

27:41

So we're reaching the end of this episode

27:43

, but we have still a few more questions

27:45

, and so each of us , with

27:47

our choices , can have a positive

27:50

impact in the world . I'm clear

27:52

that you're doing an amazing job , but

27:54

how do you feel you're making the world

27:56

a better place ?

27:59

You know , I I don't

28:02

. Sometimes I don't know . You

28:04

know , I sit in

28:06

my home and I think I might . You

28:09

know , it doesn't matter

28:12

, you know , and

28:15

then I'll get an email from someone

28:17

who said , oh , blue Mind changed my

28:19

life and they'd saved

28:22

my life . And that

28:26

, just that one message

28:28

from that one person , make

28:32

my heart get really big and

28:34

I will recognize that

28:36

. Okay , that's the one person I heard from

28:38

, and maybe there are 10 others that I didn't hear

28:40

from today . But

28:43

what , I guess

28:46

, if I reflect on my

28:48

work with Blue Mind at least ? Well , with

28:50

sea turtles we saved the

28:52

species from the brink of extinction , so that's

28:55

a real accomplishment

28:57

. But with Blue Mind , I think

29:00

my contribution is to give a name to

29:05

something that's been part

29:08

of ancient tradition for

29:10

millennia . But

29:12

I named it so that we can value

29:15

it and that we can use it more

29:17

. And it's been

29:19

wonderful to see all the creative people

29:21

put Blue Mind into action . There's Blue

29:24

Mind surf therapy and there was a Blue Mind

29:26

dive resort , and there's a Blue

29:28

Mind art gallery

29:31

in Nova Scotia , and there

29:33

are Blue Mind coaches , and

29:35

the list goes on and on

29:37

, as a Blue Mind coffee roaster

29:40

in Indiana , and just seeing

29:42

all of these different businesses and nonprofits

29:45

and leaders take

29:48

the concept and

29:50

creatively run with . It has

29:54

been really wonderful and I think

29:56

my job is basically to stay out of their

29:58

way most of the time and

30:02

then , if needed , answer questions

30:04

as they come up . So

30:07

my job is more of a background

30:09

role at this

30:11

point in the movement .

30:14

So really the last

30:17

question now . If you could give

30:19

yourself a piece of advice , what would you

30:21

say to your younger self ?

30:26

I think I would remind myself

30:29

to get into water more . Even

30:33

though I've been in the water a lot , I

30:36

can look back on moments where I think it

30:39

would have been helpful if I practiced what

30:43

I preach a little bit more . Put

30:47

a sign on the wall , get in the water . And

30:51

yeah , I mean if

30:54

that resonates with people . It's

31:00

never time . It's

31:02

always time well spent at

31:05

the ocean or in the water , especially

31:07

with the people you love . So

31:09

spending time in the water with the people you love while

31:12

they're around whether

31:14

it's my parents have

31:16

passed , my

31:18

kids have grown and left for

31:20

college , so

31:23

you lose opportunities to spend time in

31:25

the water with the people you love , both

31:29

through death or through just life circumstances

31:31

, and so

31:33

that would be

31:36

my advice to myself spend more

31:38

time in the water with the people you love .

31:41

Oh , that's beautiful . Thank

31:43

you so much for joining us today and

31:47

sharing your inspirational story with our listeners

31:49

my pleasure , thank you for

31:51

inviting me . Thanks , and the last message for our listeners

31:53

, don't forget to subscribe

31:56

to our channel and tune in

31:58

next week for a new inspirational

32:00

episode of the Career Changers . Thank

32:05

you ,