0:00

Look at that little pole. James.

0:18

Welcome to the Chasetown Podcast. I'm

0:20

your host, Justin rowan reminder

0:23

to all of you guys that you can support the

0:25

podcast by leaving a ratings, leave a review,

0:27

subscribing, and all of that other

0:29

good stuff that you do. To break

0:32

down what we got going on as

0:34

the playoffs approach, they got Carter Rodriguez.

0:37

Carter, how's it going? You're

0:39

out of practice to break down what

0:42

we got going on? You

0:45

know what? I was in a random then I was thrown off. Anyway,

0:49

Luckily you get a chance to try again.

0:52

I'm I'm gonna try again. By introducing

0:55

our other guest, very formally

0:57

and awkwardly, we have met more

0:59

of the act can network um

1:02

also a Tristan Thompson love

1:04

life expert. How's it going today? Matt Right?

1:09

I saw I think it was I think it was Carter

1:11

who tweeted like that was David.

1:13

David tweeted, oh what

1:16

what do I need to know about this? Tristan Thompson things. Tristan

1:18

Thompson thing. I was like, is he hurt? Are

1:20

they doing the lineup change? What's going on?

1:23

Let me search the twitters? And that was

1:25

the moment that I regretted my decision and

1:28

the results came up, and I just started to weep.

1:30

I just started like tears flowing

1:33

down my face for what our society has become.

1:36

Now. My theory is that things

1:38

have to get as weird as possible

1:40

for the calves in order for them to have success.

1:43

Like it's just like it's important

1:46

and like the similarities are all there from

1:49

I mean Tristan left his pregnant

1:51

girlfriend back then, Um,

1:54

you have Well, they didn't fire

1:56

their head coach, but in a lot of ways, Isaiah

1:58

Thomas was like David Bladd of

2:00

players because he's just talking

2:03

about past success that he had and ruined

2:05

the team chemistry. So they got rid of

2:07

him. There's just a STEP's hurt

2:10

again, like all the similarities are there

2:15

that your

2:18

thoughts it's

2:20

just for bullying us on Twitter. There's

2:23

so much for joining this program,

2:26

and I would say, like, um,

2:29

it's weird because what winds

2:31

up happening is it becomes very it's it's

2:34

it's very unpopular and it's considered

2:36

um uncouth,

2:39

uh gross to even

2:41

discuss a player's personal life in

2:43

any sort of basketball context, like it's

2:46

supposed to be this thing. But I don't understand

2:48

why we do this where it's like that should have any

2:51

sort of impact about how we evaluate him as a player.

2:53

And it's like, look, if I'm

2:55

having trouble at home, that's

2:57

gonna bleed over into work. Like I

3:00

used to work in an office and you knew and like,

3:02

oh, what's wrong with Dave?

3:04

Oh well, days have in

3:06

trouble with with the wife and they're going

3:08

through some stuff like that winds up impacting

3:11

your work. Like when I when

3:13

I was younger and would have breakups, I wouldn't get

3:15

anything done in the office. I would just say in my office and like

3:17

watch YouTube clips of sad songs all day.

3:20

So like I don't know, just think

3:22

the counterpoint. And Kristin

3:24

Tompson, look what didn't look like he was having a

3:26

tough time. Oh my god. All

3:29

right, we're going to pivot away from

3:31

that, which

3:34

let's let's pivot because we're

3:36

talking about how Tristan

3:39

Thompson is going to perform in

3:41

a roundabout way, who

3:43

do you think is kind of going to be the outside

3:46

looking in matt Um just kind of from

3:48

an outsider's perspective. Do you think the Calves

3:50

lineup come playoffs is going to be

3:53

based on the matchup or do

3:55

you think that because of this Jeff

3:57

Green starting and and who say

4:00

all their own having minutes, that it's going

4:02

to be Tristan Thompson and maybe

4:04

even j R. Smith on the outside looking in. Sometimes

4:07

things evolved in the playoffs. I'm kind of expecting that here

4:10

where, Um, I think they'll

4:12

probably start with what they've been showcasing lately,

4:14

which is a lot of called her Own which is stunning,

4:17

and a lot of Jeff Green, which is equally

4:20

stunning, um and probably

4:22

not as much of Nance

4:24

and not as much of Thompson. And any

4:26

game that they struggle calves Twitter will freak

4:29

out and say just why won't they

4:31

play Thompson? Why won't they play Dance? Ah,

4:33

And that will be all the yelling. If they

4:36

win, nothing will be said about that whatsoever.

4:38

It'll just be about how great Lebron is. And

4:40

then if they hit a snag for long enough and

4:43

if Tyler does have to make an adjustment, that's probably

4:45

what will happen, right is like you know, you'll

4:47

see like up, well, there's been a line of change and

4:49

uh, you know, Jeff Green's out and they're going

4:51

to to love Nance and then

4:54

they'll kind of go from there. I think Thompson

4:57

it's gonna be. Here's the thing, I

4:59

don't don't know what the Calves defensive scheme is

5:01

gonna look like in the playoffs, because I don't

5:03

know if they're going to continue their

5:06

assinine off ball switching. I

5:08

did a piece I did for Action

5:10

Network today and they're

5:13

doing it less,

5:16

but the bigs are still switching a little

5:18

bit. And every time that they switch

5:21

Thompson, that person is going

5:23

to be like, I am walking to the other side

5:25

of the floor. I am just going to space

5:28

four ft. I'm doing a Ryan Anderson even though

5:30

I'm a three point shooter. I'm

5:32

just gonna go stand over here as far

5:34

away from the paint as possible. And

5:36

that opens up the rim and that that's really the issue is,

5:38

like Thompson can be really effective if

5:41

they run a scheme that doesn't limit

5:43

him that they more like Portland's

5:45

Thompson I think can still be very effective. But

5:48

that said, that also requires Thompson

5:50

to actually play like two thousand and sixteen

5:53

again, and we just haven't see Tristan

5:55

Thompson play like that since then yeah,

5:57

I don't know if you're gonna like, first

5:59

off, I don't think most of Calves Twitter

6:01

is gonna be clamoring for more Tristan Thompson.

6:04

I get like, I just get

6:06

people like I'm almost getting the David

6:09

treatment, where it's like if we had said

6:11

anything nice about Tristan in the last

6:13

pod and he has two to three minuts

6:15

of bad play, we just have some people

6:17

like adding us just with like see

6:21

it's like all right, sorry,

6:24

but I do think we need

6:27

to talk about Green and

6:29

how committed they should be to him.

6:32

I mean you think, well, I think

6:34

we need to talk about Green and how awesome

6:38

can I note that people were yelling

6:41

at Justin and I for being too high on

6:43

Green earlier in the year. That's

6:46

how it goes, and

6:49

we just didn't want him to shoot a bunch of threes.

6:51

And now we're the Jeff Green hating as podcast

6:55

and I don't know how that happens, but

6:58

I'm not thrilled about it. I

7:00

found it really fitting that that you had

7:02

talked about in that piece how there's a

7:04

little bit of the flying death

7:06

Machine, and that got me thinking of

7:08

the death lineup, and then my

7:10

mind just went to Jeff Green being

7:13

Harrison Barnes, except instead

7:15

of Harrison Barnes, who was a good shooter

7:17

that just forgot how to shoot for a series, Jeff

7:20

Green is just starting at that point, and

7:22

I really wonder, as effective as

7:24

he's been in a lot of those lineups, is

7:27

what happens when teams just completely

7:29

ignore him and just scheme for that.

7:31

That that's my big fear. Okay, okay,

7:34

okay. Uh So

7:39

I'm going to talk about something in an abstract terms,

7:41

and let's start with this. Jeff Green has not been a

7:43

good NBA player for years and years and years and years

7:45

and years, and there's been negative net ratings

7:47

all over the place and it hasn't worked. He's been his

7:49

pointing and he's terrible three point shooter.

7:52

Like all of this is true. Um,

7:54

I want to talk about Jeff Green specifically

7:57

in the context of what the Caves are looking to do, how

7:59

he's played this year, and I want to provide

8:01

something that space

8:05

spacing is not as simple as we kind

8:07

of talk about it. Definitely,

8:11

Marcus Smart spaces the floor exceptionally

8:14

well, and the reason is

8:16

teams don't leave him open. They

8:18

guard him like he's a shooter, and

8:21

everyone goes, why are you guarding him?

8:23

It's Marcus smart, but they

8:25

continue to do it over and over again their

8:27

psychological impacts. Furthermore,

8:30

here's a crazy number for you, just an absolutely

8:33

bonkers, ludicrous number for you.

8:36

AH via Synergy Sports.

8:40

Guess what percentile Jeff

8:42

Green is in spot up? Yes,

8:54

that's closer. He's fifty six. Now.

8:58

On dribble jumpers, he's

9:01

twenty one, which is horrible.

9:04

On no dribble jumpers, he's fifty

9:06

percentile. He's average.

9:08

He's absolutely average in those

9:10

specific types of situations, which

9:12

he did a lot of earlier in the season, and

9:15

that's why he was effective and we were kind of caping

9:17

for him. It was that he was

9:20

not dribbling. I think it was

9:22

like the first two months of the season he didn't even hit

9:24

a three pointer off the dribble

9:27

um. But then after the All Star break, some of

9:29

that decision making was breaking down, even

9:31

though the effectiveness

9:34

of those lineups was still there.

9:37

Right, um,

9:39

but he doesn't enough to keep the spacing.

9:41

And then when he's really good at is when

9:44

teams closed, he's able to get to the basket

9:47

off the cut, which is quite frankly, something

9:49

that not a lot of the other guys in the Calves

9:51

have had the ability to

9:53

do over the last two years, especially last year.

9:56

Like last year's club really was

9:58

just, hey, here's the that's basketball

10:00

player on Earth and four dudes who can

10:02

shoot as quickly as possible once the ball

10:05

grazes their fingertips off of the pass.

10:09

But when the Warriors or whoever is

10:11

like, maybe we'll

10:13

get at the now, their offense is awesome no matter what.

10:15

So it really doesn't matter what their offense is. Was is

10:17

awesome this year, It was awesome last year. It's gonna

10:20

be awesome pretty much no matter what. But like Green's

10:22

ability to actually be just

10:24

a larger body, just an

10:26

athlete, just somebody who's not gonna get blown

10:29

completely by somebody that

10:31

you can't force a switch on and be like, oh, we're gonna

10:33

obliterate this guy in the post. Like that's valuable,

10:36

Like Green is not when

10:38

Green gets the ball and he does something bad. The problem

10:41

is when the Lebron every every possession

10:43

feels precious because you're always going

10:45

to have a better option, which is Lebron doing

10:47

anything. Um, But

10:51

like that's just not reasonable to have like you're always gonna

10:54

have it, so you have to kind of consider, like,

10:56

like, Okay, does what Jeff

10:59

gives you over were all? Is that impact

11:02

valuable enough to offset

11:04

how terrible he is at shooting

11:07

three pointers? And the answer for the Cavs

11:09

this year has been consistently yes. Like there's

11:11

just no way to argue against it. There's too much. We've got

11:14

eye tests, we've got data, we've got

11:16

lineup combos, we've got there's

11:18

a million ways to look at it, and the answer come

11:20

back the same. Yeah. I mean, I think

11:22

in a lot of ways he

11:25

is very limited in who he can play

11:27

with because of his tendencies.

11:30

And it's just so happens that he's gotten

11:32

a decent amount of minutes with Lebron

11:35

and Love, and I think that's really one of the

11:37

trios that he pairs best

11:39

with. My concern is

11:42

obviously the shooting. My concern is

11:44

also the rebounding. He

11:46

is a god awful rebounder,

11:49

and I maybe I'd engaged Lebron

11:51

makes up for that, um,

11:54

but I'm worried about second chance points

11:56

as this team like works their way through like

11:59

and a lot of ways, I think the decision

12:01

to roll with Green, especially from

12:05

the perspective of, hey, we can.

12:07

I I really think a lot of it comes down to, we're

12:09

not scared of anyone except the Warriors,

12:12

and we want to throw him on Durant, so

12:14

let's go. Uh.

12:17

But I just think in almost every

12:19

other matchup, the Calves matchup

12:21

better with the traditional center next to love Um.

12:25

But yeah, I mean it's

12:28

like Nance can do a lot of the things

12:30

that Tristan did, at least when

12:32

it comes to switching and the defensive

12:35

schemes that they're trying to do better

12:38

or as good as Tristan used to.

12:40

He doesn't have the consistency and he fouls a

12:42

whole lot um, but he

12:45

brings other things to the table with his ability to

12:47

screen. And one thing you had mentioned last

12:49

week, Carter, which I kind of marinated on, was

12:51

how Jeff Green's kind of a hedge on

12:53

on Rodney Hood and not believing that he's a

12:55

stopper. Thought about that. My

12:57

My thought is it's more of a hedge against Lebron

13:00

because they don't believe in him as a one

13:02

on one defender anymore and they like him

13:04

being the roamer. Like I think

13:07

Hood is kind of going to get that Kyrie matchup

13:10

out of the guards, like George Hill is going to guard

13:12

the better guard throughout

13:14

the playoffs, and Hood's going to be on the other one.

13:17

And I don't think they're necessarily worried about that.

13:19

I think it's more having that primary stopper

13:22

for whoever Lebron's guy would be.

13:25

Yeah, there's maybe I would agree with that

13:28

more if it weren't for the fact that they're

13:30

playing in these playoffs a lot of

13:32

great point guard shooting guard combos and

13:34

have consistently thrown Jeff Green on

13:36

one of those guys. I mean, you're

13:39

very generous. They've They've

13:41

thrown Green on Harden,

13:43

They've thrown Green on De rosan Um.

13:47

It just really to me, Matt. Basically,

13:49

the point I made was it feels like Jeff

13:51

Green in the starting lineup is

13:53

almost more of a defensive move because

13:56

they don't feel like they have anyone to throw on

13:58

these good scores, and

14:02

it just feels like an expression of

14:04

their lack of faith in Rodney Hood, which

14:07

you know it is fairly well and he's not a great defender.

14:09

What do you think of that point? Do you think Jeff

14:12

Green starting is more about Jeff Green or

14:14

more about Rodney Hood. I think it's

14:16

about maintaining Lebron's energy level.

14:20

Uh. Um, let's let's let's skip

14:22

ahead to like let's say it's four

14:24

or five. Um,

14:28

it's four or five pacers, and they'll

14:30

take care of that. I think like, I think like

14:32

if you ask me to really dig into it, I may come

14:34

out and be like, hm, I really like the way that that

14:36

Indiana matches up, Like I got I gotta sit down and

14:39

I gotta look at a whole bunchet of information and

14:41

data and everything else. But I feel pretty

14:43

comfortable they're gonna come out of that. Um.

14:46

So you're looking at Toronto in the second round, and

14:49

in that scenario, like you

14:53

honestly need to engage Lebron on

14:55

ball because I feel like it's the only

14:57

way you're going to keep his attention. Like

15:00

as somebody that's done an unhealthy amount of time

15:02

trying to understand why the Cavaliers

15:05

are so horrible at defense. UM,

15:08

I feel pretty confident in saying a lot of

15:10

it is just Lebron can't be bothered

15:12

to pay attention to things anymore. Yeah,

15:15

I think that's. Yeah. I

15:17

still am shook by that podcast

15:20

Sacklow was on recently where he was like,

15:22

some exact told him their internal metrics

15:25

said that Lebron was still a good defender,

15:27

And I was like, what that

15:30

makes me? Think of Darryl Moore tweeting the other day

15:32

that there are no good metrics on telling

15:34

someone whether or not someone's a good

15:36

defender. Yeah,

15:40

so, so

15:43

I guess here's kind of a good way to think of it.

15:46

Um, Lebron,

15:51

his defense isn't a problem

15:53

on eight out of ten possessions. It's

15:56

just that the two that it's a problem on are

15:59

so bad you

16:01

can't help but just be like, holy

16:04

god, what is he doing?

16:08

Like why did you just like let

16:10

Fred van Bleek go? And

16:12

just so,

16:16

my thing is, if you're playing this, let's say it's

16:19

if they wind up in a match with the Sixers, which

16:21

wouldn't be until the ECS, but let's say that

16:23

it's with the Sixers, you know, engage

16:25

Lebron on Simmons and be like, hey, teach

16:28

the rookie lesson body, Um, teach

16:30

him with playoff defense. Looks like Lebron

16:32

can take that challenge. He doesn't have to worry about

16:34

him shooting right because he

16:37

can't. And you know, if Simmons

16:39

gets by them and gets into the lane, well, okay

16:41

then now. But the big thing here is

16:43

if you do get in that situation and it's like, oh, Lebron

16:46

really is struggling, like he's having a hard

16:48

time with his energy level and he's getting

16:50

beat like he's getting blown by. You

16:52

do have Green who you can throw on him.

16:54

If you put Rodney Hood on Simmons, Simmons is gonna

16:56

body him into the post into oblivion. If

16:59

you put George Hill on

17:01

Simmons, he's gonna body him in the post into a

17:03

blood oblivion. You put Jeff Green on

17:05

him, and Simmons is probably gonna operate pretty normally.

17:07

He's not gonna target that matchup um

17:10

versus the Raptors, it's a

17:12

little bit different. I actually think that that's the

17:14

topper one for Lebron because there's nobody

17:17

for him to actively defend. Uh

17:19

Wire runs into this quite a bit with the Spurs,

17:22

where one of the reasons that I

17:24

took the Clippers in that two thousand

17:27

and fifteen series

17:29

where they were matched up in the first round was

17:32

because I was like, Kauai doesn't have anybody

17:34

to guard like there's nowhere for Kawai to

17:36

make an impact. They're just gonna take Wesley

17:38

Johnson and put him in the corner and they're

17:40

just gonna remove Kauai entirely from the play.

17:42

And that's what they did, is the Clippers

17:45

just were like it didn't matter because that's

17:47

what West Johnson does the rest of the time anyway. So

17:50

right, So with the Raptors, it's

17:53

kind of the same deal where if you unless you put

17:55

Lebron on de ros In and are just like, all right, I need to

17:57

go shut down to mar and that can

17:59

work. But that's a lot of energy

18:02

and it risks foul trouble and there's a lot of

18:04

kind of damage there. But yeah, it's not something

18:06

they've done in the past either. They

18:08

just rely on trapping. Yeah,

18:11

so Lebron's off ball and he's in that free

18:13

roaming, free safety range. That's

18:15

where he gets in trouble. He still gets in trouble

18:17

in that regard because he just like

18:19

I honestly, I am really curious

18:22

to know how much of the scouting report he reads anymore.

18:25

Like you can imagine in two thousand and twelve

18:27

when he was with the Heat, like he probably was like

18:29

in depth actually reading up on Okay,

18:32

this is what this guy does, and that's what he does. I'm

18:34

not sure he's there mentally anymore to be

18:36

like, oh really, because like he

18:38

was, he was like Darren Dario Sari

18:41

to shoot and it was like, but

18:44

he's gonna kill you. What are you doing? Don't

18:47

know. So I'm really

18:49

fascinated to see kind of what role they use him

18:51

in. But to me, Green is is

18:53

really effective in the role of basically, um,

18:55

if Lebron does get tired, Green can

18:57

take assignments and give Lebron a chance to basically

19:00

rest by playing off ball. It's just that then you

19:02

risk him resting too much

19:05

to the point where you guys the open shots. Yeah.

19:07

You know what's interesting is about

19:10

that, though, is that Green also isn't

19:12

a particularly good team defender, but

19:15

he actually does okay when he's just engaged

19:18

on the balls. Um

19:22

And But I do want to ask this,

19:24

Matt, because you're kind of talking about how

19:26

you know the Calves might be well served

19:29

to engage Lebron on ball. Do

19:31

you think their highest defensive ceiling

19:34

is with Lebron off ball and

19:36

fully engaged. No, really,

19:39

see, I kind of disagree with that. Yeah,

19:42

So a lot of it is that I've

19:44

actually seen him try and engage

19:47

on closeouts and be like, I can get

19:49

there, and then he didn't get there. Wasn't

19:52

he like nineties six percentile on

19:55

uh closeouts or something

19:57

in the playoffs last year? Am I making that stat

19:59

up? I saw someone We're absolutely right,

20:02

right, So there's a lot of indications that that should be the data.

20:05

Part of that, though, I think has to do with us

20:08

a tiny sample too. And well,

20:11

I think a lot of that has to do with the weapons

20:13

he was guarding, And

20:16

to be perfectly honest with you, a lot of that has to do with, like

20:19

how I don't mean to belittle

20:21

what Cleveland did last year because they were dominant.

20:24

They rolled right, we

20:27

read we read your article, man,

20:29

I know, I'm

20:31

just saying, like a lot of it was just the

20:36

the teams that the cavalier's face continuously

20:38

made stupid decisions and played like garbage,

20:40

like they just really really did um.

20:43

And Cleveland deserves full credit for I

20:45

guess forcing them into that UM.

20:48

But I think a lot of it inherently had to do with

20:51

they were helped along the way in

20:53

that pursuit. Yeah, so it can't be. But I

20:55

know something about that little

20:58

that graph in your piece is

21:00

that it was like two very very good reasons

21:02

and it was like and then Tristan Thompson

21:05

turned Al Horford into a pumpkin. I'm

21:07

like, no, that's just Tristan Thompson playing

21:09

well against Al Horford. We

21:13

have years of data on that, right,

21:15

I didn't mean to make that into like a I

21:19

wasn't actually offended. Oh, this is like a random

21:21

thing. It's like, no, like Al Howard is always gonna

21:23

get beat by Tristan Thompson. Oliver gets beat by

21:25

players like Tristan Thompson. Um,

21:28

here's a nasty thing that spurs fans don't want

21:30

you to know. Tim Duncan had the same problem

21:32

with hyper athletic centers, same problem

21:35

Dwight Howard. He used to eat his lunch when

21:37

Dwight was an actual, living, breathing NBA player,

21:39

like back in Howard's prime, he

21:42

would annihilate him when when

21:44

Rudy Gobert. There's a reason Utah hasn't

21:46

hasn't had a terrific record versus in San Antonio

21:49

last couple of years is because all of their bigs

21:51

the way that they play specifically get exposed

21:53

by hyper athletic big dudes. And Horford

21:56

is like a hundred percent a Spurs player

21:58

that happens to play for Boston, So like, it's

22:01

not surprising. It doesn't mean that Horford and

22:03

unlike what Cavs fans think, it doesn't mean

22:05

that Al Horford sucks and is a bad player who

22:07

doesn't deserve a max contract and is a fraud.

22:10

It means that he matches up really poorly

22:12

in that situation. So part of it is, well,

22:14

yeah, of course they won that matchup. They're always gonna

22:16

win that matchup, like they have a matchup advantage there.

22:19

But it also like the fact that

22:21

the the number one team in the Eastern Conference

22:24

was Senator was built around a player

22:26

who the Calves specifically have a counter

22:29

for. Is one of those things that's

22:31

like it worked out that way and that's awesome. It'll

22:33

be interesting to see what happens if that's not the

22:35

case. Like, and here's the thing though, is

22:37

I don't know if anybody has the player that's gonna be able

22:39

to do it right, Like you got to have a player

22:41

that's gonna do it. It's either going to have

22:43

to be the Raptors bench filling in that role

22:46

as like a collective being

22:48

that player, or gonna have to go well and bed,

22:50

and those the only two things they're gonna stop the

22:53

Cavaliers can get into the finals. Those the only

22:55

two things that can do it. And that no,

22:58

I mean you you kind of glossed

23:00

over it, and I think that was probably

23:03

the right thing to do, just for the sake

23:05

of having a cogent piece.

23:07

But you did just kind of go, the Sixers

23:09

are unknown, they're a little scary, and then you just

23:11

kind of moved on what

23:14

kind of chance do you really think that

23:16

the Sixers have? And justin I'm interested

23:18

in your opinion as well. Yeah,

23:21

I'll let you go first. Yeah,

23:23

I don't. Them

23:26

playing that game the other night it was really bad right

23:28

for for trying because it makes you you

23:30

watch them and you're like, God, they're playing

23:32

so well right now, energy

23:36

and chemistry, and you look at it

23:38

and you're like, they have shooters and they

23:40

can switch, and they have they've

23:43

got athletic forwards to throw at

23:45

Lebron and they can close out

23:47

and they've got all of these and a dynamic

23:49

playmaker and this and there were great defense.

23:52

But there's all these reasons, and then there's me that's

23:54

like, yeah, but

23:57

I remember how many times I've been excited

23:59

for these these young squads and playoff environments,

24:02

and how often it hits them in the mouth.

24:04

How different it is. Um,

24:07

the real question is going to be so the

24:09

Wizards crashed the party. When the Wizards

24:11

made the playoffs, they were still brutally

24:13

young. Wall and Deal were like Deal was

24:15

a baby when they first made the playoffs and trumped

24:17

the Raptors in that first round series. Um,

24:21

but like they crashed it and made

24:23

it. If the Lakers had just been a

24:25

little crappier in two thousand than ten,

24:28

the Thunder probably get past them in that

24:30

first round series. So there are young squads

24:33

that have had the talent to

24:35

actually do it. But I've

24:37

also seen a lot of young teams get there and be like,

24:39

oh, this is really hard. Oh everyone's

24:41

trying now, Oh

24:44

oh this is like supertense, and like if I don't

24:46

make every single shot, it's devastating.

24:48

Oh god, why is everyone running so bad? Like

24:51

part of it has to be really disorienting

24:54

is if you're a young player and you spent two years in the league

24:56

and you're used to one pace and then

24:58

all of a sudden, everyone is in ninety

25:00

miles. It's got to be

25:02

disorienting to have that kind of experience.

25:05

It's playing in your first rec League game after

25:07

playing pick up for like a couple of months. Yeah,

25:10

it's like, oh, ship, guys are

25:12

working really hard. Now. I

25:15

thought pick I thought I had a few intense games

25:18

of pickup, but wait, note rec League is way

25:20

more intense. Guys get back

25:22

on defense and leak out when I don't pay

25:24

attention to them. It's competitive.

25:27

There's a huge difference on the other end

25:29

of it. If m beads back, like

25:33

if they just feed him over and over

25:35

again, and like, that's a series that Tristan

25:37

is going to have to play in, right, So you

25:39

know, if you if you start

25:42

like you clearly can't. Like

25:44

I don't know if you can start love against them.

25:47

I just don't know why you would be like, oh, hey,

25:49

you know we really want we want our second best player to pick

25:51

up three thousand in five minutes. Okay,

25:53

I thought you met just not start love

25:55

at all, And it was no, no, no,

26:00

no, no, I'm signing you go back to the more

26:02

traditional lineup and you

26:04

put Tristan or Nance in, probably Tristan

26:07

and but even then, right, like Tristan

26:09

is probably gonna pick up two fouls. Yeah,

26:12

at that point, you're throwing some bodies and then Perkins

26:14

has to come in. Perkins

26:17

just gonna have to hurt him, right, right,

26:20

It's good that they signed him so

26:24

and that's the question, right, Like he's just eating them

26:26

alive with fouls that could

26:28

really mess things up, like that can really especially

26:30

for a team like this is what's weird about

26:33

about this. This team being

26:35

a Lebron team is very strange based of what we've

26:37

known for him forever. But there are a rhythm

26:39

team now, right, Like they have all

26:41

these shooters and they're they're kind of up

26:43

tempo, and they get out in transition and they play

26:45

with with energy and it's it's flow,

26:47

and it's about like creating like you

26:50

know, overloading the defense with their fear of Lebron

26:52

and reversing it and all of this stuff. And if

26:54

you slow it down and grind it out in its

26:56

possession by possession by possession. I

26:59

don't know that, Beth. That's because I don't know how many guys

27:01

they have that can break down a defense one on one.

27:03

They have way more than they did before the deadline,

27:06

right, Like, I think Parkson can do it a little

27:08

bit. I think how you can do it a little bit. I think

27:10

Hill could do it a little bit. They've got more

27:12

guys that can do it. Kevin Love certainly

27:14

helps there, right versus like

27:16

the Sixers, You're very much like, Oh,

27:19

the entire plan is Ben Simmons is going to whatever

27:21

mismatch he has and Joela bead is going

27:24

to just be a fire breathing dragon. And that's

27:26

a pretty good formula. You know. That's a pretty

27:28

simple and basic formula. So if I get the

27:30

basketball side of it, I'm scared

27:33

to death for Cleveland. If I get into the big

27:35

picture what I've seen from from young teams like

27:37

this before, I'm like, but

27:40

Lebron will probably figure out something. Really

27:43

game was interesting because it

27:45

really was so different than what you'd

27:47

expect from Philly when when they

27:49

haven't beat in there, like can be just

27:51

draw so much attention. But the Calves

27:54

just couldn't play a traditional guy. When

27:56

Ben Simmons is operating basically

27:59

as the tallest on the floor there like

28:01

that, it just with Simmons and four shooters,

28:03

and it was kind of like watching Lebron, where

28:05

it's okay, he's just going to exploit a mismatch,

28:08

he's going to get into the pain. If there's an open shooter,

28:10

he's going to find him, or he's going to dunk

28:13

um. So yeah, it's hard to look

28:15

at that game and come with

28:17

takeaways on on what that series would look

28:19

like because him Beat, as he said, he's

28:21

just a fire breathing dragon and

28:24

and that just completely changes your

28:26

entire game plan. A

28:28

big part about him Beat is that he's literally

28:31

not even one afraid.

28:35

That matters a lot in the playoffs,

28:37

Like, I do not expect any timid,

28:39

timidness, timidity, I

28:41

don't know the word. I don't expect

28:44

him to be timid. He's not gonna be like de Rosen

28:46

after the series where well, if we had Lebron,

28:48

we would have won, not ideal.

28:50

That is still one of the like that's

28:52

why you just can never why I

28:55

just can't do it. Uh.

28:57

But going back to the Sixers,

29:00

one thing I do think is interesting, and justin

29:02

I've talked about this with you before. I

29:04

do think that the first and second

29:06

half of that game. We're actually really instructive

29:09

as to why it's easy

29:11

to think a team can give Lebron more

29:13

trouble than they actually can. And

29:16

I think when it comes down to in the first half,

29:19

Philly was just switching everything. They

29:22

they didn't really care who they switched on to Lebron.

29:24

Really, they would switch guards

29:26

onto him, they would switch a mere

29:29

Johnson onto him, and he didn't play that

29:31

well because Lebron wasn't playing that hard because

29:33

it's April in the

29:36

playoffs haven't started yet. But

29:37

wait, wait, wait, but isn't that the whole

29:40

thing is like Lebron knows when it's time to go.

29:42

Like I understand how it's like, if he plays

29:44

badly, it's Lebron's not taking it

29:46

seriously. Let's

29:49

switch, which is it? No,

29:51

No, let me get Let me get to my point, which is

29:54

I think switch heavy defenses

29:56

are especially effective in the

29:58

regular season when aren't

30:00

as aggressive as they are in the postseason.

30:03

Lebron will go very, very

30:05

very deep into his energy reserves in the postseason,

30:07

like any other player does, in

30:10

a way that they can't the regular season. You

30:12

can't. Lebron can't iso twelve

30:14

possessions in a row every single night, right,

30:18

it's not wise. I'm not thinking.

30:22

So what I'm saying is in the second half, he

30:25

was like, all right, fuck it, I'm

30:27

doing it. You're switching Marco Belinelli

30:29

onto me. I'm going to destroy him over

30:31

and over and over again. And I don't think

30:34

you're gonna have any any low key

30:36

halbs against any team

30:38

that's willing to switch like they switched in the first half

30:40

on him. Yeah, that was my point. It's

30:43

part of that. It is he definitely got engaged because he I

30:46

love that this is still part of his DNA,

30:48

that he's still like he gets insulted when

30:50

people do that on

30:54

him, and he did like the first time, I was like, that's

30:56

annoying, Okay, fine, and then they kept

30:58

doing it and he was like, you're putting Marco

31:01

bell and Nelly on me. On

31:03

Lebron fucking James, No,

31:06

you don't get to put Marco Bellonelli on

31:08

me. To be fair, you'd get offended by

31:10

that too if you lost out on a championship

31:13

because the team put J. J. Burret on you and you

31:16

didn't take advantage of it.

31:18

Was Bell and Elli in the two thousand fourteen Spurs

31:20

I can't remember. I don't think so. I don't

31:22

think he's got a championship. No,

31:25

I don't think so either. But the point is switch

31:27

heavy defenses. Like you

31:30

say, oh, they got all these guys to switch on to Lebron,

31:32

they really don't because they don't really have any

31:34

one guy to take out Lebron. If he's really going

31:36

after him, well, no one does. It's about

31:38

making him. It's just about exhausting him. But that, yeah,

31:41

I just don't think he gets that tired. I

31:44

don't know, man. I think he's more tired

31:46

than he's ever been. He looked pretty

31:48

damn tired in the finals last year, which

31:51

again goes to why they have Jeff Green.

31:53

And I think a lot of the defensive stuff is that. I

31:56

think a lot of the defensive stuff is that

31:58

he's just tired and

32:01

it's it's exhausting. I think offense is

32:03

still really easy for him. Yeah, that's

32:05

the only part of his game that you've actually seen regression

32:08

and fatigue, right, Yeah,

32:10

which is crazy because typically with veteran players

32:12

it's the opposite. Typically veteran players,

32:15

it's that their offense continues, their

32:17

offense kind of slides and there their jumper kind

32:20

of goes away in the athleticism and then they're

32:22

not able to jump as much, but they're still really

32:24

great everywhere. You know, they're still

32:26

really great defensive become defenders.

32:29

And why it's so hard with Lebron because he's also such

32:31

a lazy asshole. We can't. Yeah,

32:34

that's a lot of and like you know, and

32:37

that really is is part of that. I think. I

32:39

think the window was a lot more narrow

32:42

a month ago, and that was what my article was about. Like,

32:44

I really think that a month ago there

32:46

was a real risk and I still have a little bit

32:48

of concern over you know, what

32:51

happens when he goes

32:53

to find there will be a time, whether

32:56

it's this year or in three years

32:58

or whenever, when he goes to find

33:01

that energy and it's not there, when

33:03

he's like okay, and now I will kick

33:05

it up and and no I don't have it. It's

33:07

just not um

33:10

And like last year, honestly they were assigned to with

33:12

like uh, Kevin Durant,

33:15

like beat him like Kevin Durant. Yeah,

33:18

yeah, he was not. Yeah,

33:20

that was one of those moments

33:22

where you're like, Okay, he no longer

33:24

can do that. And I'm with you, Matt.

33:26

Like a month ago, I was picking the Raptors

33:29

to come out of the East until I saw

33:31

otherwise. Um, them kind

33:33

of falling off and Kevin Love looking

33:36

good quicker than I expected kind

33:39

of put me back into kind

33:41

of that arrogant mode. And also now

33:43

I'm just I have that little shred of hope

33:46

of what would happen if Golden State

33:48

doesn't make it to the finals and all of a sudden you don't

33:50

have to go against that foreheaded monster. Um.

33:53

I know they're considerably worse

33:56

than the Rockets, but it

33:58

gives me a little shred of hope. Um,

34:01

I still do have some concerns. I think

34:03

facing Toronto Round two is far

34:06

from ideal. Like I think, if you want to play

34:08

Toronto, it's as late as possible

34:10

because that's going to give you more time to

34:12

figure things out. And if

34:15

it was a second round series against the Boston

34:17

Celtics instead without Kyrie, um,

34:20

that would be a whole lot easier. But um,

34:22

it's the Calves so that they're going to make things

34:24

as difficult on themselves as possible

34:27

unless Milwaukee gives them a win

34:30

tomorrow. Yeah,

34:32

and I think, uh,

34:35

it's gonna be actually see what their first round was, right, right,

34:37

they just tear through things where if it's like, oh no,

34:39

like teams really can't hang with them, because

34:41

that's really difference, right, Like there's differences

34:43

in winning. But but if you aren't

34:46

as impressive. But they were awful

34:48

in the first round last year against in like

34:51

they swept them, but they were awful

34:54

like that that I went to that game three

34:56

where they were down like twenty six and half

35:00

and they somehow storm back. But

35:02

you're right, I think three of the four games came

35:04

down to the last shot or two shots. And

35:07

their playoff defensive raiding got worse

35:10

the regular season too bad.

35:12

Ty lose the secret Sauce

35:15

defense. I

35:19

can't believe you're doing that again. Well,

35:21

I guarantee you, Matt that they're going to have a top sixteen

35:23

defense in the playoffs. Darren,

35:26

damn t it. Yeah, you've gone

35:28

out on that limb there. You

35:31

know what Tyler lose? Like? Uh

35:33

like, actually I have a secret defense

35:35

thing? Is it's just that? And

35:38

is this your card? He

35:43

just keeps falling him out. He's

35:45

not breaking the illusion. The

35:47

cast playoff defense is basically they

35:49

go for more home runs. Like they

35:53

try to take away whatever an opponent does

35:55

best, and they try to get the steel and stuff,

35:57

and they're like, well, if we tried to play the possession,

36:00

honestly, um, they're

36:02

probably still going to score on us a lot. So let's

36:04

just try to blow things up and hope the

36:06

other team falls apart. It's

36:09

crazy to me that though I made this, I

36:11

thought about this is Zac low and all these things

36:13

like is that on my pot with

36:15

Low? Zac actually

36:17

made the point of because

36:19

I brought up the seven seconds to the less suns and he's like,

36:21

that's actually not bad, Camp. But their offense

36:24

is so prolific, you know, whether

36:26

it's just like their offenses is legendary

36:28

and their playoff defenses okay,

36:31

and that's enough, you know. And then like

36:33

Mike D'Antoni, teams,

36:35

Lebron teams don't get worse than the playoffs,

36:38

right, So that's the model

36:41

of of of how they want to go about

36:43

it about this for a while, there's

36:45

a good chance that defense matters less than it used

36:47

to. With defense may just not matter

36:49

anymore in the NBA playoffs because

36:52

there are all these teams like Minnesota

36:54

is not good. Um,

36:57

you know, I think the Golden State has been horrible.

37:00

We all expect them to be different. But yeah,

37:02

yeah, they're they're definitely kind of

37:04

coasting that there's there's a lot of

37:07

those Calves of years past

37:09

signs with them where or

37:11

at least back when the Calves actually had some defensive

37:13

potential and they were slacking off. Um,

37:17

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if if

37:19

after all this time we

37:22

and we all this handwringing about the Warriors,

37:24

they actually just finally learned the

37:26

lesson from the Calves of

37:28

you don't have to take it that seriously. I

37:31

think the handwringing is overstated, Like

37:34

I don't think that there's actually that much handring

37:36

and going on like most of the well, no, just

37:38

like the concerns like, oh, the defense,

37:41

maybe it's maybe Draymond's taking a little step

37:43

back of stuff that that's happened,

37:46

you know, it's not like because that's

37:48

part of it with me too, is like I can point out

37:50

how bad Lebron's defense has been and does

37:52

happen, but it's like, look, man, he's

37:54

like I've seen that. I

37:58

was at the two thousand and twelve two I

38:00

was in the thirteen Finals, like I

38:02

know what he can do. I think

38:04

Carter is talking specifically about the Warriors,

38:06

not not the Calves. No,

38:08

I know. I'm just saying like it's the same kind of idea

38:10

though, of of when you when you see

38:13

those guys, like you can point out that this is stuff

38:15

that's happened, but you also understand how good

38:17

they are. And yeah, but I'm

38:19

seeing actual concern that like, oh, maybe

38:21

Draymond lost a little step here or there

38:23

and things like that. Have you not seen that? Yeah,

38:26

saying it's like that that's a health thing, right,

38:28

Like he's had those back issues and he's undersized

38:31

for his position. Yeah, that's

38:33

what I That's kind of what I was saying. It

38:35

is gonna same thing though with Lebron, where I do wonder

38:38

like, well, look what if they go to the well

38:40

and then it's just not there, you know,

38:43

because it wasn't that the finals was he

38:45

tried to go to the well against Durant and got cooked.

38:48

Yeah, but it's also what the Warriors were like, look

38:51

what if Draymond just doesn't

38:53

have it this year. I'm

38:56

just saying it would be funny if we

38:58

thought we thought maybe that was I

39:00

was like, we

39:03

were just resting, you idiots. Well,

39:05

what what's really going to happen is

39:07

Jamal Murray in the first round is

39:09

going to avenge the

39:12

Nuggets for what happened back with

39:15

Steph upsetting the Nuggets. Everyone

39:19

never wants that matchup. Everyone

39:21

They would be in large part because

39:23

there's there's no way that ends badly for

39:26

them. Like, you can't look bad losing

39:28

to the Warriors, right, you just can't.

39:30

Like it's just there's no way for you to really look

39:33

like yeah,

39:35

but even then, you know it's like, Okay,

39:37

well, Yogat just deep as is bad, but

39:39

he's playing the Warriors, you know,

39:42

like, Okay, he's gonna get

39:44

better. You know, it's his first playoffs.

39:46

He's a young player. He's bad defensively,

39:48

sure, like Damian Lillard was

39:51

bad. I don't think Yoga will ever be good, but

39:53

definitely. But I also think,

39:56

like, you know, I think you can definitely

39:58

still win despite him being bad pensively

40:00

that that's not concerned me. I've

40:03

really enjoyed you enjoying Jamal

40:05

Murray this year. Man,

40:08

he's the best of Jamal. It's

40:11

like he's such a killer. He

40:14

is just such a killer. And he's

40:16

also hilarious because, like I asked him, I

40:18

was like, I was like, hey, you know, like you're he went

40:20

to Kentucky, You're part of you know, Big Blue Nation. I

40:22

was like, who's the best Kentucky player in the NBA

40:24

And He's like, well, it's me and we're

40:27

not like there was no like ha ha

40:29

ha, Like he he he's serious.

40:32

Jamal Murray thinks he's the best Kentucky player

40:34

in the NBA, like no

40:36

doubt. When I

40:38

wonder what theories Kyrie would come up

40:41

with if he meditated as much as Jamal

40:43

Murray does. Okay,

40:48

it's really crazy that he's on the same team as Jalen

40:50

Brown, who's like actually thoughtful and interesting.

40:55

It's got to be so annoyed by him.

40:57

Yeah, Kyrie

41:00

probably. I imagine

41:02

a lot of like scenes where Jalen's like walking

41:04

down the hall and just like just on his

41:06

tail as Kyrie just talking of the year off

41:08

about something. Jalen definitely

41:11

gets annoyed by how often Kyrie uses

41:13

the word we talking about things

41:15

they believe? Right,

41:21

Oh Carrie, what a weirdo? Score

41:25

score first guards? Don't you just love them?

41:27

Where I am I'm sad

41:29

that he's hurt for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons

41:32

is I was really kind of looking forward to the possibility

41:34

of them getting into a matchup and then something

41:36

like some sort of controversy erupting with Karat Kauai

41:39

that would cause you guys to actually have some sort

41:41

of like level of um

41:43

like mixed feelings about the situation.

41:46

Well, I mean, the

41:48

crazy thing to me is thinking about

41:51

because something I got really upset

41:53

over in the off season was one I thought

41:56

the Calves should have found a way to keep David

41:58

Griffin, but I don't think that was possible

42:00

with Dan Gilbert um. But it's crazy

42:03

to think that even if they smoothed that situation

42:05

over, that Kyrie wasn't

42:07

going to be able to make it through the year physically

42:09

because Boston managed the hell out of his minutes

42:11

and there's no way the Calves would have done that. They

42:14

would have ran him into the ground the same way. And

42:16

even if they hung on to Isaiah Thomas,

42:19

he wasn't able to make it through this year. So it's

42:22

I wonder if that's something that factors into Lebron

42:25

thinking at all. Probably not, Are

42:28

you like how how

42:30

prepared are you for this

42:32

being the last

42:35

run, like if like he

42:37

could definitely resign and and or they

42:39

can win the title, like I wrote out thes like, hey,

42:42

look what if the Warriors do get knocked off by

42:44

by Houston? And how weird would that be if

42:46

this damn team won the title? Like part

42:48

of me would actually be mad that these

42:51

goofs could do this for a year and the

42:53

title, but part of

42:55

you would be like, this is amazing, and oh yeah,

42:58

yeah, it would be feel for so many jokes.

43:01

It's the best player and everything is

43:03

great, you know, and

43:05

just and more than anything like

43:07

one to help Lebron's legacy obviously, but to also

43:09

like you would just be able to completely

43:12

shove it in everybody's face about it, like

43:14

everyone that's made comments, like all

43:17

of Warriors, Twitter and all of I

43:19

don't think that's in my nature to really do that,

43:21

though maybe Carter might. Um

43:24

to answer your question about how

43:27

mentally prepared I am for another

43:30

departure, Um,

43:32

I don't know, Like this is the third time

43:34

that it's been possible in the last four years,

43:37

it certainly feels like the time with the

43:40

most possibility behind it. Um

43:43

the free agent class not

43:45

being great this year in

43:48

terms of like cool Lebron could create

43:50

a fresh super team with isn't

43:53

great. Um, I think Darryl

43:55

Morey might be able to put something together

43:57

in Houston, and that'd be a situation where it's understand

44:00

the Bowl if he does leave, Like, there's

44:02

not really going to be a whole lot of animosity from

44:04

me. Like, it's kind of understand

44:07

understandable, especially with how frustrating

44:09

this organization has been. I

44:11

think the most likely scenario is

44:13

signing another one year deal and

44:15

then kind of pushing this until next offseason.

44:19

Um. But yeah, I mean,

44:22

if I was stressing about what Lebron

44:24

is thinking on a nightly basis,

44:26

I I I already have enough

44:28

things going on in my life. I don't need that

44:31

kind of pressure. Justin and

44:33

I are both in the process

44:35

of planning weddings, and that

44:37

really gives you a lot of great perspective

44:41

of just like I just

44:43

like, I don't know, man, I'm just like much more

44:45

of a grown up than I was when Lebron

44:49

left the first time. You know, like

44:51

I was an idiot. I was a young idiot

44:55

joining the playoffs, and it's like I

44:57

was watching like the decision and

45:00

then like the two thousand and Tendons series versus

45:02

the Celtics um

45:05

and all these things that it's been like just

45:07

really crazy to be like, oh yeah, like all

45:09

this stuff happened, Like remember he shot

45:12

left handed. Yeah,

45:14

that gives me PTSD.

45:17

I mentioned yellow because I'm still like, look, something

45:19

was wrong. Like I don't care what he

45:21

says or whatever, Like something was wrong

45:23

with with him. That series'

45:26

very not okay, it was strange.

45:29

I don't know, Like I just don't like

45:31

get that hurt. I think, if anything, I

45:33

mean, I'm preparing myself

45:37

for the possibility that the Calves

45:39

will probably never be this good

45:41

ever again. Yeah,

45:43

that's what I prepare myself for. It is because you

45:45

have unstable leadership. You're

45:48

an ownership that really

45:51

in a lot of ways, you could argue the Calves

45:53

are one of the luckiest franchises in

45:55

the history of sports. They disagree.

45:58

Man, they lost out on the Anthony It's

46:00

lottery. They are

46:02

the least lucky team in NBA history.

46:05

But like you know, they hit, they won four lotteries.

46:08

The perhaps greatest player of all time was

46:10

born right next door. It's

46:13

just like you know it

46:16

doesn't it never felt all the

46:18

way sustainable. Um. If

46:20

things end up going where they go.

46:23

Um. But you know, I really do think

46:25

I'm with Justin. I still think it's more likely he stays.

46:28

Um, just because the other options

46:30

aren't that appealing now, especially

46:33

after they get quiet after

46:35

Yeah, of course hashtag soon. Um.

46:38

But you know, I just I don't know.

46:40

I'm just not that worked up about it at an emotional

46:43

level anymore. But let

46:45

me let me ask this, because I like, it's

46:48

great that you guys are getting married, congratulations,

46:50

and that all these good things are happening to you. Is

46:54

any of that also related to the fact that they won two

46:56

thousand sixteen title and kind of like, well,

46:58

no matter what we got that, dude, I would

47:00

be an absolute disaster if they didn't have. Sure.

47:04

I think that's a really good point, is like we've

47:07

already we have the perspective that having

47:09

won the title grants

47:11

you as a fan, right, Like you

47:14

don't get that perspective if you're just a

47:16

fan of a loser. Yeah, And I

47:18

wouldn't necessarily get mad at him for

47:21

leaving if they hadn't one in, Like

47:23

I kind of got over the decision. Yeah, I

47:25

got over the decision before he came back,

47:27

like it would be sad um

47:30

but yeah, that that aspect

47:33

wouldn't change. But yes, I would

47:35

be in a complete panic attack because

47:37

I'd be like, oh, well, now I'm never going to see

47:39

any of my teams win win a championship,

47:42

all right except

47:44

the Jets. Are We're going to piven into a Winnipeg

47:47

Jets podcast um in

47:49

the like next week or two. Here, I

47:52

justin I couldn't tell you how disinterested

47:54

I am in that I want to force

47:56

it on you, all right,

47:59

fresh,

48:02

alrighty, So we might

48:05

as well wrap things up. Not after

48:07

all the things we've said, is any

48:09

of this going to matter? Do you? Do you really think

48:12

what's your gut take on where

48:14

the Cows are going to end up the

48:16

season and this offseason

48:19

joint dual question seon

48:22

as you put that into our minds,

48:26

I think that I think we're wrong. Gone, well

48:29

there you go, no matter

48:31

what happens. Well, yeah, I just I

48:33

honestly just think it's Gilbert. I think that's the thing

48:35

is I think he can

48:38

cover for everything else and at the end of it,

48:40

and like him, have the kids moving school

48:42

was tough and there's all these reasons, but I do think like

48:45

Lebron is a guy that that makes emotional

48:47

decisions, like not entirely

48:50

like sometimes he's about business and

48:52

just the cold blood of nature, but sometimes

48:55

and it's about the personal

48:57

stuff. And I think, um,

48:59

the tie being of a lot of stuff that went on the summer with

49:01

Gilbert just pushed him too far and he

49:04

doesn't like it became a power battle. And

49:07

one thing that is going on is like Lebron

49:10

doesn't want to have to Lebron

49:13

isn't at this point willing to deal with anything

49:15

that he feels that you shouldn't at

49:18

this point. And I think that's part of that. Um,

49:21

it's not anyone factor with Gilbert. I think it's a lot of

49:23

different things, but I think that's a big, big part

49:25

of it. Now. I'm not saying he's gone, it's

49:28

over, because I do believe like Lebron hasn't

49:30

decided anything, like Lebron will decide

49:32

what he's gonna do. Um.

49:36

So what you're trying to say is that you're picking the Calves

49:38

to win it all this year. I A

49:42

Calves Rockets finals is awfully

49:44

interesting to me. I am way more interested in that

49:46

than I am in like Raptors

49:49

Warriors. So I'm sorry,

49:51

I want to extend this for like two more minutes because

49:53

I have a question for you. Is

49:56

your feeling that the Calves raptors

49:58

more or Calves pockets is more interesting

50:01

and the Calves have a chance. Is that based

50:03

on analysis or is that based in gut

50:06

feeling? And if so, if

50:08

both, then what percentage would you give it? Because

50:11

mine would be like it's like gut

50:13

feeling, which doesn't feel

50:16

great. No, I think there's I think there's had a coule

50:18

issues. I think I mean, look, you know, Houston's

50:20

big advantage in terms of being able to produce more

50:22

three pointers to outpaced teams,

50:24

that's eliminated with Cleveland because Cleveland literally

50:27

is set records for the most three pointers, right, and

50:29

they still have Corver, and they've got Smith,

50:31

and they've got now they've got guys like Hill

50:33

and obviously you know devastating

50:35

weapon Jeff Green, So like they can

50:37

um they I think they can keep

50:39

pace with Houston. And if you can keep pace

50:42

with Houston, then you're gonna have a chance. And

50:44

even though Houston's defense is better than the Cavaliers,

50:46

like it's not so much better that Cleveland can't

50:48

crack it, and so there's all these

50:51

ways. I don't know, I would think that

50:53

that was that series will be. I know,

50:55

like the odds on that series will be a lot closer

50:57

than the odds on cay As

51:00

Warriors will be

51:02

because there would be a cheer given James Harden, and

51:04

I won't until I see him win a really big

51:06

series. Yeah,

51:09

James seven is gonna stick with me a long time.

51:11

I've heard this from me all before. It it's weird to me because

51:13

I'm like the really, people just said the same thing about Lebron,

51:16

like this is exactly where Lebron was. Yeah,

51:19

I don't think James Harden's Lebron. Yeah,

51:21

well, I think Lebron

51:24

had also dragged a really bad team to the

51:26

finals pretty damn really on it

51:28

wasn't they like, Yeah,

51:31

it wasn't the exact same narrative. But I get what you're

51:33

saying. I get it. I just think it's

51:35

different other than Boston,

51:37

where I think his biggest failure

51:40

was probably Miami, but

51:42

we'd already seen him do such

51:44

amazing playoff things in

51:46

the past as the team's best player,

51:49

taking them deep that was like, well,

51:51

that felt more because he wanted to leave

51:54

or because he was hurt, and it just felt

51:56

different. Again, That's like, it's not like

51:58

Harden has been horrible in every single series.

52:00

He's been in every single game. Like it's

52:03

there are these isolated incidences what you can point

52:05

out and even if you want to say, like I'm not saying he's

52:07

Lebron, because no one Lebron. But my point is more

52:09

that we've seen this with a lot of stars, like Durknovitski

52:12

had this label when all of these guys like there are all

52:14

of these these issues that the guys

52:17

go through until they break through and then all of a

52:19

sudden it changes, so not

52:21

everyone breaks through those I

52:25

just want to I'm not gonna say he

52:27

can't do it. I just kind of want to see it. That's all.

52:29

That's literally, honest. I just I just kind of

52:31

need to see it first. I mean, I just feel better

52:33

about two All Stars versus two All Stars because

52:36

the Warriors scared the living hell out

52:38

of me. That's really what it should

52:40

come down to. I think you're right there. Any

52:43

final thoughts, guys, I

52:45

got it. I I already extended

52:48

it, so that's on me. I actually want to know,

52:50

um, what you guys think about

52:55

the new guys and whether they're ready for this moment,

52:57

Like you know, Lebron is

53:00

awesome and lebralo this, but like look if if if

53:02

the role players do struggle, that is going to be a problem.

53:05

Like our our Nance and Clarkson

53:08

ready for what they're about to walk into,

53:10

like I think George Lla is because George Ell has been around right,

53:13

Like George ELL's got spurs DNA. But

53:16

I don't know, like Clarkson and Hood

53:19

and these guys, I don't know

53:21

what their situation like if they're prepared

53:24

for what they're walking into, Like there's a lot of pressure

53:26

when Lebron's giving you the ball. Yeah,

53:28

I don't think Clarkson knows better. I think

53:31

Nance is going to be fine as long as he's

53:33

not accumulating

53:35

fouls, which I'm not

53:38

super confident in. But hey, I guess

53:40

they got cornerstone piece

53:42

there and Jeff Green that's gonna alleviate

53:44

any any concerns there. As

53:46

he said George Hill, I don't worry about um

53:50

Broadney. Hood is a real

53:52

X factor, Like I have no idea what to expect with

53:54

him and then Clarkson, as

53:56

I said, I just don't think he knows better. I think he's

53:58

going to take shots when I re as the

54:00

chance. I will say they're kind of

54:03

in a lot of ways because they have you

54:05

know, obviously Lebron and Love are way better than

54:07

everyone else in the team, and then there's kind of this large

54:10

middle tier in their roster from

54:12

spots like four

54:14

through like eleven that

54:17

they do have a little bit of insulation

54:20

in case the moment is a little too big. You

54:22

know, Hood's not going well, well,

54:24

let's throw Corver out there, or

54:26

let's throw Jr. Out there and see if you can find

54:29

some find a spark. Clarkson's not

54:31

going well well called Aaron has been great

54:33

all year. You know, you'll you can

54:35

live with that. If Clarkson is playing a

54:37

little cold, Nance isn't going well

54:39

well, you just play a little bit more Love at center,

54:42

throw Tristan out there for a bit in some spot

54:44

minutes. I'm not saying, you know, obviously

54:46

you want your your players to play well, but

54:49

I do think they have a little bit of insulation

54:51

there. Um. But I do think

54:54

to your point, the ceiling

54:56

gets a lot lower if the new guys don't

54:58

play if if the moments too big

55:00

for the new guys. But I just don't

55:02

know how much that ceiling matters until

55:05

the finals. If I told you guys out of the thousand

55:07

sixteen title that in two years, he would

55:09

be like, well, don't worry, we got how they called

55:11

her own. If you told

55:14

me two months ago that I

55:16

said, Um,

55:19

also I'm a called her owner respector I

55:21

than you guys says it. Where you guys are with j R. I'm

55:24

basically ready to take him out of the lineup. Um.

55:26

I think they're still going to keep giving him

55:29

opportunities because when

55:31

he does get going, he can lift

55:33

you up. Um. But they just have too

55:35

many reliable or not reliable,

55:37

but they have better options. Like I

55:40

think Rodney Hood's floor defensively

55:42

is way higher than JR Is, even though Hood isn't

55:44

a great defender. UM. I

55:46

think with those second units, you're you're going to see

55:49

Clarkson with either lebron

55:52

or called her own or some other ball

55:54

handler, and it just kind of negates

55:57

the necessity for JR. It's

56:00

us you with Corver there too. He

56:02

just doesn't shoot flames like he used to,

56:04

and that was kind of the whole point. Um,

56:07

you know, it's in a lot of ways. I just think it's

56:09

like a Justin's kind of talked about,

56:11

like throwing him out, see what he's got, then have

56:14

a quick leash. But that has plenty of

56:16

problematic implications to Uh,

56:19

you know, where I am with it is it's

56:22

kind of a bomber. I'm

56:24

not gonna probably harp on it like I

56:26

do with players I like less, and

56:28

you know, I think that's sad. Uh,

56:31

you know, at least on Twitter. You know, as

56:33

a writer, you know, if you're writing a column,

56:35

you kind of have to throw that stuff out the window

56:37

and just to talk about it. But I'm not just gonna

56:39

sit here like fuck JR. Because like

56:42

I don't know, I like j R. And it doesn't

56:44

And maybe that's stupid

56:47

or overly sentimental of me, but

56:49

I like JR. And I will always

56:52

be happy every time it's a three. It's

56:54

tough though, because when wheneverbody's freaking out

56:56

over the team and they're like, God, this, that and the other is

56:58

such a problem and this guy is so

57:00

bad, and I'm like, why are you guys not talking? Like

57:02

how do you how do you complain and then

57:04

not mentioned j R. And it's I

57:06

get like what he did is just really

57:09

crazy to me that, um well,

57:11

it's just crazy to me in general that j R. Smith has

57:14

built up this much equity with anybody. Yeah,

57:16

well, I think for Carter and

57:18

I, we just kind of moved on where it's if

57:21

Jr's playing poorly, like

57:23

that's just kind of the status quo and it doesn't need to

57:25

be pointed out every night. For

57:27

the rest of cass Twitter. It basically

57:30

comes down to, well, we still have Tristan

57:32

and Tyler to blame, so um

57:35

yeah, we can blame Tied because our

57:37

players are flawless and he's the only one holding

57:39

them back. Yeah, it's not like a

57:41

lack of like frustration with JR.

57:43

As much as there are people, especially

57:45

in the Calves Twitter sphere, that really

57:48

really have much more

57:51

an enmity towards other guys.

57:53

And I do think there is a bit of like a yeah,

57:56

we know JR has been good for two years. It's

57:58

hard to be like I mean, we've

58:00

tried to like kind of point out like, hey,

58:02

maybe JR shouldn't be playing thirty minutes

58:05

right now, but

58:07

you know, like the like

58:09

like to just completely hammer like, yeah, j

58:12

Are sucks. Now, It's like, well, yeah

58:14

he does. It's just like there's not that much interesting

58:16

stuff to say about it, I guess, and

58:19

for most of the year there really weren't that many better

58:21

options. Yeah, well yeah, that's

58:23

the big thing is to talk about how

58:25

much he sucks, what

58:28

versus how much money is to talk about Jeff Green sucking.

58:31

Well, we don't complain about Jeff Green

58:33

sucking. We just complain about the role. I think he could

58:35

be really effective in a different role.

58:37

I I don't want him completely out of the rootage.

58:39

Yeah, we we we prefer we really enjoyed

58:42

what Jeff Green has brought this year, and we've talked

58:44

about plenty. It's more just like, hey,

58:47

quit over relying on him and putting him

58:49

in bad spots. Don't put him in the corner

58:52

to be a spot up shooter, and when you take

58:54

those shots, don't let him

58:56

tell him not to. Like, you know, it's

58:58

like, we really don't hate Jeff Green.

59:01

In fact, like once again, as I said

59:03

earlier in the year, people were making fun of us

59:05

for being so pleased with them.

59:08

I want him running with the second unit with

59:10

with Lebron, Like I want them to

59:12

kind of go back to Lebron subbing out early

59:15

and maybe featuring Love a little

59:17

bit more in those lineups,

59:19

and then just having like Clarks

59:21

and Lebron running, Jeff Green and

59:24

and all those guys that do well in transition.

59:27

I'll say it, Matt, You're in my head because

59:29

every time I've gone to compliment him, I just

59:31

feel like you're going to be like, hmmm, I

59:35

don't like it. This

59:37

is on you. I

59:39

do get worried every time I tweet, and and

59:42

ultimately, if you can do that to anybody,

59:44

that's the real goal of Twitter is to get into people's

59:46

heads. Right, you went, you ton of a

59:48

bitch. Um

59:51

one more, I'm sorry. What teams

59:54

most want to beat with? The one that you're just like

59:57

that, the any that you're very much

59:59

going to say, whoever's in the finals,

1:00:03

Um, I

1:00:05

I'll be proud of him if they handle the sixers?

1:00:08

Is that a good answer? Like the sixers

1:00:10

and you feel something's coming up, And I'll

1:00:12

be proud of him. If they're like, no, we're just way better

1:00:15

than you and you're not ready for us yet, that

1:00:17

would be pretty cool. Yeah,

1:00:20

Like I really like Toronto, um,

1:00:23

but mostly because that's where

1:00:25

I feel like there's the most

1:00:28

possibility for banter. I'm

1:00:30

gonna go with Toronto, UM,

1:00:33

just because I know more Toronto

1:00:35

bloggers and like I don't really feel anything

1:00:37

for Philly, and that would be a more satisfying

1:00:40

when to see them like handled Philly,

1:00:42

UM, but beating Toronto, especially

1:00:45

because they are a much better team this year.

1:00:47

I think that would be the most fun to watch, but

1:00:50

also a little depressing. Would you get

1:00:53

anything I eat in Boston that Guarry No,

1:00:55

no, no, I don't care.

1:00:57

They're not gonna be there. I don't care. That's

1:01:01

sad. That should

1:01:03

have been such a fun battle. Yeah,

1:01:06

I was really looking forward to it. Like half

1:01:09

my bookmarks are tweets that I

1:01:11

was gonna go off on when the Cavs

1:01:14

beat Boston, And like now it's

1:01:16

like, it's not as fun to retweet that

1:01:18

stuff. When Boston gets a limited in the first

1:01:20

round without Kyrie or or the second round

1:01:22

against Philly, whatever happens, oh

1:01:27

well, pretty pretty wild. Hopefully,

1:01:29

hopefully Milwaukee can be Philly in

1:01:31

this finale so the Cats can pop back after

1:01:33

three and they can just take care of them in the second round.

1:01:36

Yeah, let's get our conference finals in the conference

1:01:38

finals. There's no fun in it being

1:01:40

the second round again against Toronto. Al

1:01:45

Right, well, that's probably a

1:01:47

good spot to wrap it up, Matt. We really do

1:01:49

appreciate your time. Thank you for coming on, Thank

1:01:51

you for getting in our heads because

1:01:54

we are unchecked far too frequently

1:01:56

and sometimes we need someone to rein us

1:01:58

in. So we do appreciate you. Annoy

1:02:01

you a little bit too, Yeah, yeah,

1:02:03

we we like being that annoying

1:02:05

little brother to you sometimes. Well

1:02:08

that's my night mirror is like the Calves sweep the

1:02:11

Eastern Conference and then my mentions are

1:02:13

just going to be just so

1:02:15

much liquid fire. That's why the hedge so

1:02:17

hard the last week. I just know we do

1:02:19

it out of Yeah. I like that you wrote this big

1:02:21

column as though it was like an intellectual

1:02:23

exercise. This is just a long

1:02:26

play hedge so people don't yell

1:02:28

at you. And

1:02:30

yet it's gonna be effective because I can be like, hey,

1:02:32

look I said, I've

1:02:35

got the receipts. Yeah, yeah, I'm

1:02:37

very sure that seeing a link and a

1:02:39

headline is going to change how people are

1:02:41

coming at you. When

1:02:43

people are angry and mentions they're not looking

1:02:46

for facts. I just see.

1:02:48

But that's the thing is, I don't care if they're angry. I

1:02:50

just care that I'm right. That's what's important, and

1:02:53

that's why we get along because ultimately that's all

1:02:56

I care about. All

1:02:58

Right, Thank you very much, Matt. Thank you to our listeners.

1:03:01

As I said at the beginning of the podcast, you can

1:03:03

support the show by leaving a rating,

1:03:06

leave a review, subscribing, um

1:03:09

we we figured out last episode that UM,

1:03:11

I cannot read the reviews we get on iTunes,

1:03:14

so Carter is going to read them to me before bed

1:03:16

every night. So before we go,

1:03:18

before we go, we have a we have a new

1:03:20

review that Matt's gonna like. Oh okay.

1:03:23

The headline of the review

1:03:26

is my go to for when Jeff

1:03:28

Green starts five stars.

1:03:32

These guys also question why Jeff Green

1:03:34

starts continued to nearly double land

1:03:36

Verry Nancy's thanks guy.

1:03:42

That is a great spots. Thanks

1:03:46

again, guys, and as always, good