0:09

Welcome to the Chase down on leverage to chat

0:12

on your host Justin Rowan. Carter

0:14

did a great job filling in for me taking

0:17

on all the hosting responsibilities last

0:20

week. I appreciate that, Carter, thank you

0:22

very much for holding it down. I

0:24

feel like there was a little sarcasm in your

0:26

tone. There no no sarcasm at all.

0:29

Job but no, no, there's no sarcasm.

0:32

But I'm kind of like Derrick Rose. I I recognized

0:34

that team was doing better without me there,

0:37

but in no way is that going to affect how I

0:40

carried myself or or lead

0:42

to any reflection or improvement.

0:44

So what what you get is

0:46

what you're going to get. Like unfortunately,

0:48

that's the way it is. Well, I was happy to fill

0:51

it in the meantime, and thanks to more for coming on.

0:53

Anyway, We got a guest. We do have a guest.

0:55

UM very excited about our guests this week. We

0:58

have Matt Moore for UM CBS

1:00

Sports. You may know him on Twitter as HP

1:02

basketball or that guy that hates your favorite

1:04

team. Matt. How are you doing today? What's

1:07

up? How you guys doing? What's your

1:09

most used emoji? Matt? Recently?

1:14

It's actually been the sick emoji, like I had

1:16

the stomach bug last week. Oh my god,

1:18

I justin yes, And

1:21

so I was like, I was texting my

1:23

wife. I was like, why is there not a vomit emoji? But

1:25

as I that my iPhone was like, here's

1:27

the vomit emoji in case you want to use. That was like, are

1:30

you kidding me? Like what else

1:32

does this thing have? And then I was like, well, I'm

1:34

not really actually vomiting. I'm just really nauseous.

1:36

And so I looked like there's actually like a green like

1:39

face turning ill face, and

1:41

so I use that like a lot last week to describe

1:43

how I was feeling. I have a running

1:45

bit that I just developed yet last

1:48

week when Ryan Morton came on

1:50

the pod because he apologized for being like stuffed

1:52

up, and I just had, like every podcast

1:55

Gas Store host, it's just perpetually ill.

1:58

So this was actually really big for me, like

2:02

something, yeah, we were talking about a

2:04

rap before you came on the pod, and I was seeing

2:06

how I'm stuffed up. But the next

2:08

level move is getting a breathe right nasal strip

2:10

right now. So that's what's uh, that's what's

2:13

keeping me sounding good. And I'm surprised

2:15

breathe right doesn't like sponsor just every

2:17

single NBA podcast at

2:19

this point. Well, I have two

2:21

kids, which means like I'm perpetually finding like

2:23

strange new ways to get sick, just

2:26

bizarre

2:29

things that you catch. The

2:31

worst part is, for for some reason, like

2:34

my kids get sick and they're fine in like three days.

2:36

Then my wife catches it and she gets like the

2:38

long term illness, so she'll be sick for like two

2:41

weeks where it's just like mild

2:43

discomfort and she's just grouchy. And

2:45

then for some reason I catch it and it turns

2:47

into outbreak. It's contintue,

2:50

like it's like you want to put the plastic

2:52

sheeting around the room that I'm in. It's

2:54

absolutely horrible. How

2:56

how sick I get, which is it's always a pain

2:59

because I've got a new editor, Audi Joseph,

3:01

who joined this from USA today, and I'm like having

3:03

to explain to him, like I work constantly,

3:05

like I will work through any sort of illness, so

3:07

I might tell you I'm too sick to work. It basically

3:10

means that like I feel so terrible that

3:12

like I'm I'm seriously

3:14

like just wondering what is the point of

3:16

view of going on at this point, um,

3:19

and trying to explain it to my had With every new

3:21

editors, like every time I get a new editor, I

3:24

immediately get sick, and then for some reason,

3:26

I feel the need to like validate how hard

3:28

I work, even though they're like I

3:30

followed, like Audie had the perfect responses, like Matt,

3:33

I follow you on Twitter, like I'm

3:35

aware of how much you

3:37

think about basketball. It's fine, It's okay,

3:40

it's um. Now here's my question

3:42

to your contagion problem,

3:45

Like does your wife agree

3:47

that you get the contagion? Because my

3:49

fiance, like she can be super sick

3:52

and I can be like pretty doting taking care

3:54

of her. Then I get sick and it's like I'm the biggest

3:56

baby in the world, and I find it

3:58

very unfair. I get your wife's

4:01

supportive, I get the basically

4:04

what happens, and she'll test, like

4:06

she'll poke and kind of like figure out

4:08

exactly how sick I am.

4:11

Um. If like she volunteers,

4:14

if she says like you can go get Chipole if

4:17

you want, and I'm like, no, I'm way too sick, then she's like,

4:19

oh, you're like really

4:21

bad. And she's like, well, why

4:23

don't you go get yourself a smoothie from the smoothie

4:25

place? You like, that'll make that'll make you

4:27

feel better. If I'm like I can't even think about leaving

4:29

the house, She's like, oh, you really are

4:31

sick. Okay, never mind, are you Okay?

4:35

That's fair. I like that she has to test it

4:37

and internal ripping

4:40

your process. Yeah. We did with the kids too, right

4:42

like today, like my son was didn't want to go to

4:44

church and he was like, my stomach kurts, I

4:46

don't feel good. I can't go. And I was like,

4:48

okay, but if that happens,

4:50

you don't get to be on the iPad the entire day. You just have to stay

4:53

in bed. And he's like, we can go. Speaking

4:58

about a commission, we might as well talk about

5:00

Derrick rose Um.

5:02

He is contemplating a return

5:04

to the Calves. Um.

5:07

There's no timetable currently, but he

5:09

does have interest in rejoining the team.

5:12

Obviously, the Calves have looked considerably

5:14

better without him. Um, there

5:16

there's still issues and the competition

5:19

hasn't been great over the

5:21

swinning streak. Um, but

5:23

it's hard to imagine

5:25

a role for Derrick Rose when he does come back,

5:28

right, I

5:30

would legitimately be changing his security

5:32

codes like I would be. It's

5:36

Rose, So I would try something like, hey, we move

5:38

the arena, here's the new address.

5:40

Just still here. That's

5:43

what I would legitimately try. That's how

5:45

bad he has been. Um,

5:49

it's I was about this today. The

5:51

biggest problem that they have is their best

5:53

thing going for them. But Jr.

5:55

Is playing better and Lebron's

5:58

decided to give it him on defense, and

6:01

um, they've gotten better contributions like Crowder.

6:03

I think is is starting to get better every game.

6:07

But the biggest thing is like that bench unit

6:09

is insane. Like you put Dwayne Wade on

6:11

the floor with Kyle Corver and for

6:13

some reason, that combination is

6:16

just absolute handcuffs

6:18

on everybody. And they have so

6:20

many good line ups that feature specifically

6:23

those two and Lebron and

6:26

pretty much any other two human beings you put

6:28

on the on the floor with them. But the

6:30

one thing you can't do is you can't throw a point guard in there,

6:33

right, you can't do that. So you basically need like

6:35

you need Wade and

6:37

James running point, and then Corver

6:40

is a shooter, and then you fill them with another shooter and

6:42

then either Fry who's a shooter, or

6:44

Love who's a shooter. Um, and going

6:46

that way has really worked for them defensively,

6:49

which has been their big problem. And quite

6:52

honestly, there's just zero

6:55

that Rose provides on either

6:57

end, Like, what what's really good about these units? Oh?

6:59

Well it's Wade who can slash,

7:01

and then a bunch of really good shooters. Will

7:04

you throw Rose in there? Well that's gone.

7:06

Is he a great off ball cutter? Nope? Okay,

7:08

Well the other good thing about well, they're playing absolutely insane

7:11

defense. Absolutely everyone's defensive rating is

7:13

below one hundred when Dwayne Wade's on the

7:15

court. Okay, well, what happens

7:17

to be id Derrick Rose? Well that all goes to

7:19

hell. So there's just zero

7:21

reason for him to be in the rotation. They would be

7:23

so much better off. He's

7:25

on a minimum deal, he's in this weird place.

7:28

They I understand that they want to take care of him,

7:30

and I appreciate that as like wanting to look out for

7:32

a veteran guy. But this team has serious aspirations

7:35

and they do not have the time to mess around with this. They would

7:37

be so much better off by letting him go and

7:39

finding any D League center that

7:42

can rebound and jump at people.

7:44

That's all they need. That they would be so

7:46

much better off served if they

7:48

just went to the D League and found literally

7:50

any room protector. Yeah, I think I

7:53

think a big part of it is, like I

7:55

think you're more willing to help Rose

7:58

try to rehab and find his way if

8:01

you also need help and

8:03

like the help that like, Like if

8:05

if the Calves like ultimately tried

8:07

their best to find a use for Rose, it would

8:10

probably be I mean,

8:13

even though I don't think any of us really think he can

8:15

do this, but if if if we're looking through

8:17

rosecolored blasts, it would be

8:19

bench instant offense score for

8:21

like fifteen minutes tonight and then never

8:24

share the floor of Lebron, Like just play only when Lebron

8:26

is on the bench and have him

8:29

provide the offense. But they found a good

8:31

thing in those minutes, and

8:34

it's almost a certainty

8:36

that his return will ruin that good thing

8:39

pretty much, and it's it's just not

8:42

feasible, it's not doable. Um,

8:45

I understand why he's not retiring because he's

8:47

got eighty million reasons not to retire

8:49

in that Adida's deal. But I

8:51

asked this earlier, and I don't know if we have clarity

8:53

if he's just so, if he retires, if

8:56

he walks away from the game forever, he

8:59

forfeits that a million. Just

9:01

a what if he is just a free agent,

9:04

Like if the Cavs cut him and no one signed him,

9:06

does he still get his money? I don't really

9:08

understand how it works. I mean, I haven't seen

9:10

it. I would assume that basically, as

9:12

long as his career is ongoing, he's still gonna get

9:14

paid. Um. There may be some sort

9:16

of benchmark for games played that he

9:18

has to fulfill, like he may have to fulfill

9:21

like he has to appear in x NBA

9:23

games. UM.

9:26

And I think if he gets let go, someone

9:30

will probably go get him.

9:32

There's like a probably five

9:34

teams I can think of whose front offices would

9:36

be able to justify it based off of both position

9:39

fit and where they're at in terms of desperation

9:41

level. Um. But like, look,

9:44

this is the this like this is the end point. This

9:46

is like the the absolutely not. Um.

9:49

We all know if you're listening to podcast,

9:51

you obviously know what the Cavs looked like last year whenever

9:54

Lebron James was on the bench, Like you

9:57

know what, that was okay in

9:59

two seven minutes, which is not

10:01

a huge amount because it's so short in the season,

10:04

but it's really big in terms of like where

10:06

we're at now, and it's a pretty okay sample

10:08

size. Dwyane Wade is plus seven

10:10

point five when James is on the bench,

10:13

Like they are actually

10:16

better with Dwyane Wade

10:18

and Lebron on the bench. Then when they

10:20

have Lebron and Dwyane Wade together,

10:22

it's a plus seven point out when he's on the court and

10:25

a plus seven point five when Lebron's on the bench.

10:27

If you find any situation, as the

10:29

Cleveland Cavaliers in which you are not

10:31

losing your ass off when Lebron

10:34

James is sitting down, you hold onto

10:36

you freeze everything. You put everything

10:39

in cryostasis, like you walk

10:41

in all of your rotations. You don't

10:43

do anything. I don't care what it's

10:45

doing, like play Jeff Green. That's fine as

10:47

long as nothing changes to disturb that number.

10:50

All you need is for it to be like, oh,

10:52

Lebron, you can sit down for fifteen

10:54

minutes and actually half you can get you can

10:57

actually sit down for a while, because it's

10:59

like that's so important for the postseason,

11:01

for the finals, for his career, for

11:03

everything, you know, And it's also

11:05

really good for him. I think if you're looking at the long

11:07

term goal keeping him, like a big

11:10

part of that's gonna have to be his ability to local team

11:12

and be like, oh, like we're even good when I'm

11:14

on the bench. Okay, Like this is nice

11:16

because Lebron is the kind of guy that like collaps and

11:18

cheers when he's sitting down. It's

11:21

like, this is like a really big deal. Yeah,

11:23

I mean I just did not do anything to disrupt it

11:25

whatsoever. Like called her own can do his usual

11:28

start for a few minutes and then play sparingly.

11:31

It's fine, But like what you really want to

11:33

keep is these this crux where like

11:35

wades coming in and all of a sudden they

11:37

are just a death machine and they need to keep

11:39

that up as long as humanly possible. It's

11:42

amazing to me that, like because like

11:44

a lot of people might point to Lebron's minutes

11:46

still being so high, but I don't know if they

11:48

realized that his minister. Because the starters

11:50

are blowing leaves or taking

11:52

a hole, and then the bench comes in,

11:54

they put him up thirteen, and then the

11:57

cat has inevitably have been letting teams back in the games

11:59

with their starting units, not with Lebron

12:02

on the bench. And like if

12:04

they can if when Isaiah

12:06

Thomas returns, and I think we all

12:08

know he's got limitations, but he's still he's

12:10

fifth an MVP voting last year. Uh

12:14

if when he returns, if those starting lineups

12:17

stabilize and become elite

12:20

again, which I mean, especially

12:22

once Tristan Thompson comes back, you would think that

12:24

that can that can happen? Uh,

12:26

then this is

12:29

crazy, like they should be they should

12:31

they can kill people, and Lebron will

12:33

be able to get his rest that he hasn't been

12:36

able to get all year. Well, and here's one for you.

12:38

In the first ten games, Lebron was averaging thirty

12:40

seven point nine minutes, which um

12:43

alone the right voice

12:45

in year fifteen

12:47

slash nick right voice. Um,

12:52

that's insane for him to be playing thirty eight minutes, Like that's

12:54

just what he did. Like, I mean, I'm honestly

12:56

at the point where I know the

12:58

situation Tyler is in. But you just

13:00

have to be like, no, we're gonna lose. It's fine, Like

13:02

I'd rather lose games than do this

13:04

to him. Um, but the next ten

13:06

games and games eleven through twenty, it

13:09

was down at thirty six point nine. He was playing one fewer

13:11

minute a game, which doesn't sound like a lot, but

13:13

look it's it's it's you know, ten minutes

13:16

across ten games, and these

13:18

little things take off and that's just an average.

13:20

So if he's playing you know, more one night

13:22

and then weigh less another, he's getting more rest. Now

13:24

in the last three games, he's down to thirty

13:26

five minutes. If you say, like, oh, your star

13:29

players playing thirty five minutes a game, that's perfect,

13:31

that's one of those games thrown

13:33

out. Yeah. I was about to say the get thrown

13:35

out of games after minutes

13:38

to see it could strategy. He should do that more often.

13:40

He should he should intimidate

13:43

rests by running at them and uh, making

13:46

them believe that he's going to physically

13:48

harm them for some reason. Um,

13:51

it is nice to see how good the bench is

13:53

going in. I think that's some of the

13:56

concern about when the new pieces

13:58

come back in, like Onceson Thompson comes back,

14:01

when Isaiah Thomas comes back, how

14:03

that's really going to affect things. But to

14:05

me, I think they need to go back

14:07

to Trisan Thompson in the starting lineup

14:10

instead of Jay Crowder. UM Like,

14:13

right now, teams are putting centers

14:15

on Crowder and they're basically cheating

14:17

off of him because he's only shooting thirty

14:20

two point nine percent this year. Um.

14:22

I think it's clear that last year was a bit of an

14:24

outlier where he shot thirty nine percent.

14:27

Before that, his previous career high was thirty

14:29

three point nine. So he's basically at his

14:31

previous career high prior to last season.

14:34

UM. So if you're not really gaining

14:37

the space that

14:39

you had with the theoretical five

14:41

shooters, you're there's

14:43

really not a lot going on there. And and we

14:46

know that in the past that starting lineup

14:48

worked really well with Kyrie Jr.

14:50

Lebron Love and Thompson, and

14:53

there's no reason to think why that shouldn't

14:55

work again this year with Isaiah Thomas

14:57

in for Kyrie. UM Like, I think

15:00

Compson is going to be a good asset for him in

15:02

the pick and roll for to help get Thomas

15:04

going. Love should help Thomas

15:07

going as well with dribble

15:09

handoffs things like that, and

15:11

and really then your only concern is, Okay,

15:14

Calderon is clearly a stop gap. He's

15:16

just not going to play UM and

15:18

Crowder. I guess he's going to take some

15:20

of Jeff Green's minutes, which Green

15:22

has been playing well. But I think

15:24

that there's the opportunity for Crowder

15:27

to really make an impact there. And and

15:29

you just kind of go off what the opponents are

15:31

doing. UM,

15:35

here's my only thing. Uh, this

15:39

gets really tricky because if you if

15:41

you mentioned the timing, people jump

15:44

to a certain factor and I'm not prepared to go

15:46

in that direction. So I will just say this,

15:49

since the two thousand and sixteen finals, Tristan

15:51

Thompson has not been the same player. No,

15:53

he just has not been the same dude. And I don't know what's

15:55

going on, because like, I'm very high on Tristan, like I'm

15:58

I've I've always been high on rist and I was high

16:00

on in the draft. I was high on him in the

16:02

early years because I was like, oh, hey, one of the Cavaliers

16:05

actually gives a damn UM. I was

16:07

high on him as kind of a good

16:09

piece in two thousand fifteen. He was obviously

16:11

incredible in in two thousand and

16:13

sixteen, um, and then things kind of

16:16

fell apart for him and he just wasn't the same guy

16:18

last year. If that was cruising or whatever.

16:20

But then the bigger issue was that in the finals,

16:22

like I was able to demonstrably point

16:24

at things and be like Tristan's costing them

16:27

when Tristan's on the court versus the Warriors, it

16:30

was a combination of things. He wasn't playing

16:32

well, his instincts weren't weren't going great.

16:35

He looks sluggish and slow, and the Warriors

16:37

also very clearly had like done the scouting

16:39

report. And then like, we can't get killed when

16:42

Tristan's on the floor, because that's happened to us two

16:44

years in a row. Like we have to win

16:46

these matchups when Tristan's on the floor, and

16:48

they targeted him and they took advantage of him, and they beat him

16:50

into and they just beat him to pieces. Um.

16:53

And so right now

16:55

all of the data says the basically Jay Crowder

16:57

is like not good. UM, And I get

17:00

that. I just continue

17:02

to believe that if this, if

17:04

you're gonna get where you want to go. They

17:07

gotta keep leaning away from high

17:09

octane power, and they need to keep going

17:11

more towards. They

17:14

need as much switchability as possible.

17:17

One of the big problems last year was like, all right, you

17:19

guys, remember in two thousand and sixteen, Like

17:21

one of the big things was they started switching Triston on

17:23

Curry and being like, no, no, you got him. Go ahead,

17:25

go ahead, dear, little dance around. Do your little dance

17:27

around. Shoot away from thirty five ft. But Tristan's

17:30

gonna stay with you the whole way, and he's gonna keep that

17:32

big pall of his up the whole time.

17:34

And he did a great job of that well. In two thousand

17:37

and sixteen seventeen, the Warriors

17:39

figured out like, okay, we just have to drive past

17:41

him, and Triston wasn't able to contain. And

17:44

so my thing is, like the Calves need switchability.

17:46

They've got to have switchability at all levels, not just

17:48

for the Warriors, but just in general. I

17:50

think they're gonna need that. I just didn't need a need that ability,

17:53

and I don't have as much faith in Tristan as I used to. If

17:55

Thompson comes back and all of a sudden

17:57

he's able to like rediscover this what he

17:59

was in two thousand and sixteen. He plays like that. I

18:01

think you're absolutely correct, But until Tristan

18:04

is able to get to back to that point, Crowder

18:06

at least gives you positional flexibility to

18:08

a degree that you are you know, if

18:10

centers are posting up on him, you're

18:13

still dealing with such a lower

18:15

points per possession mark. Then if

18:17

you've got guards that are taking him off the dribble,

18:19

then the help has to come. Now the shooters are open.

18:22

That all creates like a cascading effect that's much

18:24

worse. I would stick with with Jay

18:26

until Tristan is able to prove conclusively

18:29

that he's back. Well, I think

18:31

that either decision you make

18:33

has a series of pretty obvious

18:35

drawbacks. I think if you stick with Crowder,

18:39

the big drawback for me one is

18:41

that it's hard to

18:43

keep Channing Fry in the rotation, who's

18:46

been really really good all year. Though I mean, you know

18:48

you'll live with that, uh, you know, it's

18:50

not like a back breaker. Another thing

18:52

is I'm worried about Kevin Love holding up.

18:55

Yeah, he's working really,

18:58

really, really hard against

19:01

these behemoth guys, Like it's

19:03

not we like to joke the center

19:05

is gone, but like there's like a Fournite stretch

19:07

where he had to battle Howard, had to battle on Bead,

19:10

had to battle Drummond like that with

19:13

his injury history, with his back problems,

19:16

just I think there's some concern there that he

19:18

could wear down. But then you

19:20

go the other way and you start Thompson, and it's

19:22

like when you start Thompson again,

19:25

Lebron now either has to guard the best defender

19:27

or the best offensive player on the other side

19:29

of the ball, or Jr. Has to do

19:32

it and probably be a little overmatched

19:34

again. And that's a nice thing about

19:37

Crowder is that he does kind of give Lebron

19:39

that break. And I

19:41

don't think there's a really easy answer. I think

19:44

the answer gets easy just

19:46

depending on Google plays better. Like

19:48

I know that's not a very sexy answer, but like

19:51

and also I mean, Matt, I do I am

19:54

interested in this from your perspective because

19:56

you talked about that bench lineup and how

19:59

you don't mess with it no matter what is

20:01

inserting Tristan Thompson into Channing Friese

20:03

minutes does that mess up to ju do there

20:06

and would it be better just to put Tristan

20:08

in the starting lineup and let that

20:10

bench And it cooked the exact way it has been

20:13

prior. There are things in basketball

20:15

I just do not understand. Channing fries defensive

20:17

impact the season is one of them.

20:20

I've watched the clips, I've gone through and seen

20:22

it. I've like done all and every single

20:24

time, like I've been worried about this. I'm

20:26

worried about the Channing five minutes. I've been worried bout

20:28

since they traded for him. I never understood it. Uh,

20:31

and it was bad because what winds up happening is

20:33

because you critique a decision or a guy,

20:35

the label gets out, like, wow, you really hate Channing

20:38

Fry, And I'm like, I love Channing Fry,

20:40

like the guy came back from my heart condition. Everyone

20:43

loves him. He's like such a good guy. He's

20:45

a stretched shooting five, and he was doing

20:47

this way before that was okay to do,

20:50

Like Channing Fries awesome, But

20:52

the love of god, what do you need that on this

20:54

team for? Like why don't you have a

20:56

better room protector? And the other defensive

20:58

numbers bear out time and time again, but

21:00

this is working. Um,

21:02

I think that maybe moving Tristan into that

21:04

role could be Okay,

21:07

Um, it's an interesting

21:10

and so like here's like the question, right, is,

21:13

so the strength of that unit is defense. What

21:15

happens if instead of Fry taking

21:17

three pointers, it's Thompson inside

21:20

and so as a result, you have less

21:22

spacing, so you have more contested

21:24

shots, which means you have guys getting back not

21:27

as often, which means your transition defense suffers.

21:29

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think

21:31

that's a valid point there, and Thompson

21:34

might be able to bolster that part of

21:36

my concern though, Like I think what

21:39

you the points he raised about Thompson are valid.

21:41

Um. Last season, I think he was good through

21:43

January. He had shown growth as a rim protector,

21:46

and then the reports started coming out that he was dealing

21:48

with NA tendonitis and he just

21:51

wasn't the same player. And with Kevin

21:53

Durant, with Lebron being on Kevin Durant,

21:56

that force Tristan to guard dream on full

21:58

time. He was clear rearly exposed

22:00

in in that matchup, and he was once

22:03

again hurt to start this season playing through

22:05

an injury and just hadn't been the same guy

22:07

and if Thompson isn't

22:10

the same guy, the Calves have to look for an alternative,

22:12

which is part of why I think it's best

22:15

to put him with the starters in

22:17

a situation where he's excelled in the past

22:19

and try to optimize that because you need to find

22:21

out right away whether or not he's going to be

22:24

that same guy, because if not, you

22:26

you need to make some changes. Like as

22:28

good as the Calves have been throughout

22:30

this winning streak um the

22:32

starters, their defensive rating is still

22:35

a hundred or a hundred and twelve point one.

22:37

And when you consider they've only played two teams in

22:40

the top fifteen offense in offensive

22:42

rating, which is Detroit and the next

22:44

both at below on six,

22:47

that's not exactly that doesn't go well for the

22:49

future. Like that's that's really concerning

22:52

that as soon as the competition heats

22:55

up, the starters weren't

22:57

playing good defense against bad teams

22:59

and it's just going to get ugly. So I

23:02

think Thompson will help.

23:04

No, and I say that Thomas is not going to help,

23:06

but oh, I mean, it can't be that

23:08

much worse than called a own. But I think

23:11

Thompson at least gives you the potential

23:13

to be better defensively, and

23:17

I'm all about finding out what you have because

23:20

it's a win now situation. And if Tristan

23:23

is primarily playing on the bench, if

23:25

you need to call on him at some point to

23:27

play with the starters and it's

23:30

neither make or break, you want to know

23:32

what he's going to bring beforehand.

23:36

Yeah, yeah, ahead, man, I

23:39

mean I wouldn't. I guess part of it is, I think

23:41

if your trade in Tristan, you say, of Tristan in case

23:43

Marcus All comes available, right,

23:46

and that's that to me, is the only scenario in which

23:48

you deal Tristan, just because it's

23:53

tough. But I think here's the I don't think you're

23:55

gonna get a great return on Tristan because

23:57

he's a room protector in the league where if you're just if

23:59

you can't shoot as a matter uh,

24:02

And we saw that last year, right, where like Tristan,

24:04

you're right that he fell off with the knee

24:06

injury. But it's also just

24:09

you know, the effectiveness of those guys

24:11

has gone way way down. You're

24:14

just not seeing anybody outside of Ruby

24:16

Gobert really able to impact

24:19

the game as a rim protector and

24:21

create a lockdown defensive system because

24:23

of how much you need to still be able to switch on the permitter

24:25

anyway. Um, but isn't that

24:27

a knee thing. I mean, I don't know if that's a style

24:29

thing. I think that's his knee hurt. He

24:32

wasn't able to move as well as he did because he's never

24:34

been an elite rim protector. He's mostly

24:36

been he got okay at room protecting last

24:39

year and mostly had utility as

24:41

someone who switches. And

24:46

yeah, I think it's I think it's

24:48

also tough. There's a correlation between offense

24:50

and defense. I think that's that's kind of the trick that you have

24:52

to manage. UM, and that's

24:55

where I think it might get a little complicated. Uh.

24:58

I do have a have a kind of a modern by

25:00

Low candidate for you guys to think about. Okay,

25:05

it is not let's say the Orlando Magic

25:07

going the absolute tank. Let's say that they've

25:09

they've lost, like I think they wanted a versus

25:11

the Knist who without poor zingis but they've lost. I

25:13

think of like nine before that. Um,

25:17

Nikola Chevich is only on contract of two thousand

25:19

and nineteen. I

25:22

can't do it. You

25:25

gotta you gotta listen, though, you gotta listen. When

25:29

Vogel got there, Like I was, I always

25:32

liked Vujevich, but then I've been like, well he can't defense,

25:34

it doesn't matter. Vogel got there and

25:36

he knew that the knock on him was his defense.

25:38

Nikolovujevich is a quality defender, like

25:41

he's just like it's the same kind of

25:43

deal as Greg Monroe where he learned how to just

25:45

basically, if you can contain in the pick and roll, as long

25:47

as you're smart enough not to blow rotations, that's

25:49

all you gotta do, and you could be at help as

25:51

long as you have the size, like Vukovich

25:54

is gotten to be. Like I, he's legitimately

25:56

to me. I like having him on the floor defensively

25:58

more than like them having the Bombo. Yeah,

26:00

but then he shooting

26:03

thirty six from three this season. See.

26:05

My My thing is he's

26:08

improved offensively, But

26:10

is that going to matter? Can he play defense

26:13

against the Warriors? Because I still

26:15

don't think the Haws are necessarily going to As

26:17

long as they have health, they're

26:19

they're not going to face too much competition in the

26:22

especially with Gordon Hayward out um,

26:24

like, sure, it's going to help throughout the regular

26:26

season, but when you have finite

26:29

assets and you really don't have a lot of

26:32

um trade pieces here, like, are

26:35

is it worthwhile? Is it going to help

26:38

at all against the Warriors? If you're

26:40

you're giving up pieces to get Vouschovich

26:42

in there, I will one. I think

26:44

that you can give up almost nothing and be able to get

26:46

him back. I think if you're we're talking about Vision

26:48

in the situation, it's like it's February

26:51

and the Magic are completely in disarray

26:53

and there's absolute chaos, and they're just like, we

26:55

just need a clear salary and start over again. And

26:59

so you're taking a very low flying and at twelve point

27:02

seven, he's actually twelve point to five.

27:05

That's affordable for you could probably

27:07

put together some sort of package to be able to acquire

27:09

that without having to give up too

27:11

much centering around primarily mon Um.

27:15

And the thing is with

27:19

the Warriors, when

27:22

they go small, you're going small,

27:24

so it doesn't matter there's no center. You're gonna probably

27:26

counter that with Like realistically,

27:29

if they go with the with the with

27:31

the death ball line, which they actually don't do, much anymore.

27:33

Right, But when they do, the Calves

27:36

are probably gonna counter. I would

27:38

love at center. That's like what they're gonna do. Because

27:40

even with Tristan we said we saw like last

27:42

year like it was really bad. Maybe if Tristan

27:44

plays better, sure, but you would still have

27:46

the option if you wanted to try it. I always

27:49

recommend giving up Tristan for Vush.

27:51

That's not why I'm suggesting at all. What

27:54

I am suggesting is like if you're

27:56

able to have him out there and he counters

27:58

ja vail or now all of a sudden, instead

28:00

of them having a stretch five, you have the stretch

28:03

five and Javal is not going to cover him

28:05

because Javal is not never gonna do that. Javal

28:07

is never gonna cover that. Like you'd be able to run

28:09

pick a pop with with Lujavich when JaVale is out there

28:11

and getting open three every single time, same

28:14

thing was Aza, You'd be able to do that every single

28:16

time he gives you. He gives you a guy

28:18

that's a smart player, that's

28:20

savvy, plays better defense,

28:24

and can hit threes. I'm just saying, as

28:26

a rotation like alternative

28:28

to Fry, I think it would

28:31

be worth at least exploring how

28:33

would he find next to Paul George. Though, yeah,

28:35

it was about to say it doesn't really matter. They're going to trade

28:38

all their assets for Paul George. Matt right,

28:40

of course. Fantasy

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the Chase doown.

30:57

I didn't want to go back to this current

30:59

cat team, uh and go back

31:01

to Wade because I'm interested

31:04

to hear because I've kind of been. If

31:06

you paid any attention to my twitter feed, I've just been

31:08

like tweeting out Dwayne Wade facts.

31:10

Just not stop because I've just been blown away

31:12

by how funn he's been to watch from

31:14

the perspective of a Caps fan. His

31:17

lineup that is great. All his

31:19

defensive numbers are great. He's

31:22

shooting pretty ty and efficiently from

31:24

the field. Like it's true, shooting is pretty poor, even

31:26

if you don't count the first really ugly

31:29

stretch of the season. I mean, how

31:31

do you, I mean, do you feel like from your eye,

31:33

from your side of things, what

31:36

Wade is doing is sustainable? And

31:39

is he someone who's going to be continue to anchor

31:41

really really good lineups for them or do you think there's

31:44

a there's a drop off coming here. There's

31:47

probably a drop off coming just because the defense

31:49

is so good. It's just it's it's

31:51

just counterintuitive to look at what he

31:53

and Korver are at for a defensive rating

31:55

and go, oh, that that will

31:58

hold that that doesn't know. I mean, it's

32:00

the same thing with the Celtics, where you

32:02

know, I understand how excited they are, but do

32:05

you really think the group of guys who can't

32:07

rent the car are actually going to be

32:09

able to hold this kind of defensive rating,

32:12

because that's not going to hold. It's just

32:14

not going to hold. Um

32:18

And on the other end of it, like these two a RP members

32:20

are probably not gonna be able to hold it either. What I do think you're

32:22

seeing, what you're seeing

32:25

with Wade is you're seeing the

32:27

benefits of having a knowledge base.

32:29

And this is something I talk about a

32:32

lot that I think it's so lost when we talk

32:34

about defensive ability in terms of can you move your feet?

32:37

Uh? Do you have good instincts? Do

32:39

you are you athletic? Can you hang with guys?

32:41

Can you block shots? These kind of things?

32:43

If your curry? Can you know, can you make steals?

32:46

And you have do you have quick hands? Wade

32:48

has quick hands and he still has athleticism

32:50

even at this point in his career, even though it's like severely

32:52

sapped. UM The biggest thing that was

32:54

like Wade smart and

32:57

he wrote smart man both

33:02

it's just like savvy all over the place,

33:04

and he knows he

33:07

knows how to manipulate you into

33:09

doing what he wants you to do. And

33:12

if you are not a veteran player that knows how to counter

33:14

that and stay out of his traps, he's

33:16

going to spring it on you. Like Lebron's

33:18

averaging eight point seven assists the season, which, by

33:20

the way, that's insane, but

33:23

also like Way's averaging three point

33:25

nine for a team that has been so bad

33:27

at having any other playmaker in recent years,

33:30

even when certain people that

33:33

question the geometry of the planets is

33:35

on the floor, the great

33:37

and wonderful playmaker who's averaging the same number

33:40

of assist as he did last year for a hundred possessions.

33:42

Um, they haven't really had another playmaker

33:44

on the floor, like a real playmaker. And

33:47

to me, I think Wade really is a playmaker. They had assist

33:49

makers, that guy was an assist maker,

33:51

but Way, to me, he's able to see

33:53

angles and create things and really absolutely

33:56

just generate looks

33:58

and things and make plays with

34:01

his confidence. Like there's a lot of also a lot of

34:03

its confidence right where ways willing to

34:05

try things because he's in a point in his career where he's

34:07

like, no, I pulled these things off before, so I can

34:09

I can get away with trying them, where a lot of

34:11

guys are like, I can't make that pass because if I screw

34:13

up, it's gonna cost me minutes. We didn't have

34:15

to worry about that, Like what he's gonna get

34:17

minutes no matter what. He's Lebron James

34:19

buddy, and this is the calves um

34:22

that he's gonna get minutes, And so he's

34:24

able to create those kind of things. I think defensively, I'm

34:27

still waiting to kind of go back and see if I can't

34:29

sink my teeth into what it

34:31

is that they're doing that's creating so so many problems.

34:34

Um, there are like there are with a lot

34:36

of things. There are problem areas that tend

34:39

to spring up. Like I started looking at like

34:41

what's been like the stuff behind the calves

34:43

right, and so I was like, Okay, well

34:45

in this stretch it's since the winning streak, Like are

34:47

they allowing fewer threes? No, they're everything

34:49

the same amount. Huh, so

34:52

are they making them no? They're just like

34:54

they're just missing a lot more

34:56

than they were before. Now that could be like

34:59

they're contesting way better and running off

35:01

shots and stuff like that. That doesn't sound

35:03

like Dwyane Wade, Kyle Corver stuff, does it? Like, it

35:05

doesn't sound like Dwyane Wade and Kyle Corver, Are you

35:08

know, leaping through the air gracefully

35:11

flying like Jordan's to swat

35:13

away three pointers. That's not what's happening. Sneaky

35:16

athletic though, Yes,

35:20

last night I started looking at things

35:22

like turnovers and there's still like

35:24

all of the stats are relatively the same.

35:27

It's things like, oh, opponents are shooting like

35:29

eight percent worse at the free throw line. So

35:32

there's a lot of concern. There

35:34

are reasons if you want to find concern,

35:37

there's there are reasons to be concerned that

35:39

this is a little bit smoking mirrors and it's

35:41

going to catch up to them. Like. The nice

35:43

thing, though, is that they can afford

35:45

that, like they're beating teams with Wade

35:48

on the bench or with weight on the floor

35:50

and Lebron on the bench, even if they I mean, how

35:52

many times last year did we say they

35:55

could just break even? But if they could

35:57

just break even with Lebron on the bench, that

35:59

would be so important, And like you

36:01

can go from outscoring teams by like six

36:03

points per under possessions down to two and

36:06

that's fine. I

36:08

do though, I think this

36:10

is my only thing we saw

36:13

this last year. So they went all offense with how

36:15

they approached everything last year obviously,

36:18

like they were just like, we're gonna outscore

36:20

teams. It's gonna be amazing. Look at me, threes

36:22

we can hit. And my whole thing going to

36:24

the finals was like, you cannot get into a shootout

36:27

with the Warriors. You're never

36:29

going to win that. Even if you're

36:31

really good, you can't win that.

36:33

They have Kevin Durant and Steph Curry,

36:35

like they are going to be able to limit

36:38

you with their defense

36:40

in ways you cannot limit them,

36:42

and that's gonna wind up catching you. You have to

36:44

have you have to have an identity as a

36:46

really great defensive team. And so for

36:49

me, you know, if

36:51

it's like, well they come back a little bit, but

36:54

you know, there's still out scoring teams by so much. Like

36:57

I worry so much less about net rating

36:59

with the Cavalier, Like teams

37:01

are trying to make the playoffs. I worry about netrating with like,

37:04

just figure out how to get the plus three. Just

37:06

figure out how to get the plus three per possessions,

37:09

it doesn't matter. That will probably get you

37:11

in the Calves. I'm genuinely

37:13

like, No, you need to legitimately have a

37:16

top ten defense if you want to have any chance

37:18

against this team. As your only hope is

37:20

if you were able to say we

37:22

can go in there and we can play with you. Because

37:25

the only team I really believe that has the offensive

37:27

firepower to hang with Golden States Houston. And

37:29

that's just because of their style of play and their

37:31

shooters and as great as they

37:33

as the Calves are, and they have so many weapons and they do

37:36

their weapons are a little bit more coverable

37:39

than what the Rockets are, so like to me, they

37:41

still have to get to a place where they are defined by

37:43

their defense, and that's been what's

37:46

happening lately. But we really

37:48

got to see that hold up as they started to play the better offensive

37:50

teams. Yeah, but I

37:52

will I will know Houston

37:55

still doesn't have Lebron, and Lebron is the only

37:57

star that wrote I guess Kauai also

38:00

Lebron reliably destroys the Warriors

38:02

on offense. They the

38:05

Warriors have have made their

38:08

uh made their money made. They've cut their

38:10

teeth on destroying often opposing

38:12

stars. They ruined Blake

38:14

Grippin, like that's what they do.

38:17

But Lebron they cannot stop. Iggy

38:20

is the closest thing to Lebron stopper, and Lebron

38:22

goes crazy. Matter.

38:25

I'll agree with you in total that having Lebron matters,

38:27

But I think we saw last year, like

38:30

the whole thing going to last year was like and

38:32

how much I heard this all the time, which is,

38:35

Okay, sure they've got the top

38:37

five defense and the top five offense and maybe

38:39

the best offense we've ever seen, and sure

38:42

they've got better depth, and sure the

38:44

Cavaliers can't defend, and sure

38:46

all of their their shooters are barely

38:49

alive, but they've

38:51

got Lebron, and Lebron can

38:53

tear them apart. And what happened. Lebron

38:55

tore them part offensively, but Kevin Durant cooked

38:57

his ass on defense, and he did like Lebron. Le

38:59

series got cooked in Games one and two. I broke

39:01

it down, and it was shocking to me because I've always been

39:04

like Lebron, No one's gonna beat Lebron when he's locked

39:06

in. Kevin Durant cooked him in games one and two,

39:08

like he beat him off screens and caught him napping several

39:10

times. And this is why that's not what I

39:11

was saying. To understand, I

39:14

was just talking about their offensive

39:16

output. Is they

39:18

I would take the Calves offense over Houston's

39:21

offense against the Warriors, specifically Lebron.

39:24

And because there's the track record, I felt like a pots

39:27

for a hundred possessions last year in the finals. I

39:30

mean I would. I would point you to how Harden's done

39:32

against them historically. James Harden

39:34

has done like that series

39:36

in two thousand and fifteen, right where

39:38

they won in five games, Games

39:41

one and two. I was at an oracle and they were

39:43

nail biters and both of them went down and

39:45

both of the coin flips went Golden State's way,

39:47

and it broke Houston and literally they didn't

39:49

get back over for a year and a half. But

39:51

the other thing is like now it's

39:54

not about the individual star power, it's about

39:56

how do you play collectively, And like the Cavalier's

39:58

offense is legitimately great. They put up really good

40:00

numbers last year. It's a matter of

40:03

like Houston has the

40:05

potential to be UNBELI

40:07

like their ceiling is is incomprehensible.

40:10

I mean, they put up ninety this year and a

40:12

half. Um,

40:15

it's crazy fun to watch and

40:17

they they haven't been fun to watch in the past,

40:19

but they they are legitimately

40:21

awesome this year. And it's it's

40:24

it's tough because you know, like,

40:26

look as Lebron James a better player than James Harden,

40:29

Like, why, yes, you are correct,

40:31

James, Lebron James better player James

40:33

Hardon Um. But in terms

40:36

of like what they bring to the table, you

40:38

know, they have I think a

40:41

different makeup of how

40:43

their their identity is, especially this year because the

40:45

different like that's everyone's missing it this year

40:47

is like the Rockets this year, or the identity

40:50

of the Calvs need to get to not with the speed,

40:52

you don't have to play fast, but the Rockets

40:54

were literally like, no, we

40:56

we think we can adde defenders and

40:59

still keep up our shooting because we have

41:01

such great playmakers. And they did

41:03

that, like Bob Mute and p J.

41:05

Tucker and it's just like it works and

41:07

they are so good defensively at so many spots

41:09

that they can play James Harden and Ryan Anderson and

41:12

survived defensively versus like

41:14

if you put Lebron James on the floor, Derrick Rose,

41:16

turns out you can't survive defensively. Yeah,

41:18

that's once again, like I I totally

41:21

see the case for Houston over

41:23

Golden State, or over

41:25

Houston over Cleveland as a threat to

41:28

Golden State in totality.

41:30

I was just talking specifically about

41:33

the offensive end and how

41:35

despite all the limitations that has had,

41:37

they scored at an unbelievably

41:39

efficient rate last year in the finals.

41:42

That's my life point. Yeah, you're you're right,

41:44

But think their defense was asked and

41:47

that's the thing that's western. That's what That's how I got

41:49

to in the beginning, right, Like I don't have doubt that Cleveland

41:51

can score on Golden State. I'm not like, oh, you're

41:53

not gonna be able to score efficiently. The problem

41:55

is like versus Golden State, you have to score

41:58

so efficiently in order

42:00

to keep up, and if you don't

42:03

have the defense, you have no chance Like

42:06

that. I never yeah,

42:09

yeah, it's an interesting problem. But like to

42:12

that point, like don't you think that they should

42:14

if they are you know, you were kind of floating those

42:16

Boostovitch trades. Don't you think then

42:18

in that case, like if you

42:20

want them to move kind of towards that Houston paradigm,

42:23

shouldn't they keep any and all powder

42:25

they have drive for another

42:27

way? No, I think

42:30

you should keep all the powder dry from Marcasol. Thank

42:33

you you're with justin I I

42:35

can't get behind it. No, I'm all

42:37

in on that, especially because you look at

42:39

how well Memphis has played the Warriors

42:42

in the past, and I think the Calv's way

42:44

to beat the Warriors is playing that slow

42:46

down style. That's how Lebron likes

42:48

playing. And you look at how like even

42:50

Marcusol and Zach Randolph, how successful

42:53

those two were against the Warriors, And um,

42:55

I I think Gasol and Love together

42:58

would be able to really

43:00

be a force there. I'm all

43:02

in on Gasolt. I I think like

43:05

he's a stretch five, fantastic

43:07

passer, and he's a great defender.

43:10

Like I know he's not having as great

43:12

of a season this year. Um,

43:14

but No, I'm I'm all in on

43:16

Gassault like I I would.

43:18

I'd offer Thompson in the Brooklyn pick

43:21

for him. What's the reservation

43:23

on it of reservations,

43:25

Yeah, uh well, I

43:27

mean beyond if we're just talking short

43:30

term, because I think the long term reservations

43:32

are obvious age

43:35

and you know, just natural

43:37

decline. If we're not getting short term,

43:39

I have a couple of reservations. One, I'm

43:41

nervous about the foot speed of a

43:43

Love Gassoult front court defensively

43:46

like Gasol, I think it's still a really

43:48

really kg defender, but I think it's fair to say he's

43:50

not quite as quick as he once was. And

43:52

that's no, that's no slight. He's just not quite

43:54

as quick as he once was. So I'm worried

43:57

about that defense. And then I'm worried

43:59

about if he's not

44:02

anchoring, if he's not turning the Caves

44:04

into an elite defensive team.

44:07

Is he going to be utilized properly

44:09

on offense within the context of the CALVS

44:11

offense to make it worthwhile

44:15

if they're just posting him up like he's

44:18

like if you like he's an old school center in

44:20

the in the nineties, and

44:22

they're not utilizing his passing

44:25

and cutting off of him on off the elbow

44:27

and running a ton of DHL, which they don't

44:29

do and they never have uh

44:32

and they never did it with love as much as we've screamed

44:34

for them to try it. What

44:37

why why should I think that they're going to do it

44:39

now? Like, I just don't all the way trust that they

44:41

can get that fully integrated, fully built

44:43

in in half a season and

44:46

with a move like Gassol. He's

44:49

old, so you have to be like, you can't

44:51

wait, like you can't take like a year and a half to figure

44:54

this out, because by the time you figure it out, it

44:56

might be too late and he'll have taken those

44:58

two three steps back and that's enough to make

45:00

it not worth it. Let

45:02

me sell you on it. Sure,

45:05

justin I talked about

45:07

I see the case. I don't think it's stupid to because

45:09

I want to address your concerns because the're valid um.

45:13

He talked about defensive mobility. So the big key

45:15

here is that we get lost one. I

45:18

will guarantee you that if he got traded to Cleveland

45:20

Cavaliers, all of a sudden, his diet's going to start improving.

45:22

And oh wow, Marcosol has lost like ten

45:24

pounds this month. That's crazy. That's

45:26

what would happen. That's absolutely a percent

45:29

what would happen. Um. The second thing is that

45:32

what Gastol has always been really good at,

45:35

what has actually made him notable. He's not

45:37

like he's some sort of superb shot walker.

45:39

It's not like he's like White Side

45:42

swatting things out of the air. He's not Dwight Howard.

45:44

What he's actually really great at is he's able to

45:46

hedge pick and rolls all the way at the corner so

45:49

that the guard, if the guard gets hung up, it's

45:51

okay. And too if the guard just switches,

45:54

he can literally force the ball out of their hands

45:56

because of his ability to hedge. If

45:58

you want talk about that being mitigated with his with his

46:00

age, here's the trick. So much

46:02

of that gets down to not how

46:05

fast you are. It's about your anticipation. It's

46:07

about being able to understand in time

46:09

that pick and roll move so that you are out

46:11

ahead of it and you were one step. And because of

46:14

his size and how long his

46:16

strides are, that's always given him advantage.

46:18

It's been one of the best things about him.

46:20

UM. I think that particularly

46:22

this team, I think he and Wade with

46:25

Lebron on the bench, would slay.

46:27

I think they would kill teams because

46:30

if you remember, once, once

46:33

Dwayne Wade was like, Okay, we're really keeping

46:35

Hassan Whiteside. Like we're really keeping

46:37

Hassan Whiteside. You're sure,

46:40

like there's no way we're trading him.

46:42

Once it was like okay, no, we're keeping us on

46:44

white side, all right? Uh

46:47

then White Then Wade started working

46:49

with Whiteside and teaching him where to be and

46:51

how to play and helped him get

46:53

better to where. That's what part of what earned him his MAX

46:55

extension that summer, or has resigned

46:58

his new deal that summer was like Wade really

47:00

worked with him and stayed on him. And

47:02

Wade's great with guys about that.

47:05

Now, Gasalid, he's not gonna need to do that

47:07

with and Gasol is gonna recognize,

47:09

like, oh, I can't slatch off here like I got Dwayne Waite

47:11

and Lebron James. I don't get that. I don't get the slack.

47:14

So he's gonna bring it every single night, and he's gonna bring

47:16

it what he needs to um and

47:19

having that other offensive weapon, especially

47:21

like if you think about what he's been able to do in terms of spreading

47:24

the floor, it's like, oh, hey, what if we had like and

47:26

he's not as good as Shanning Fry, but like, oh if we had

47:28

like a Channing Fried type weapon who could

47:30

also completely destroy

47:32

any mismatch because Becauseaul is one of the few dudes

47:34

in the league right now, because they're just not

47:37

a lot of them, where if you do put it put

47:39

a smaller guy on him, Becausaul will actually

47:41

exploit the mismatch. He wan't exploit mismatches

47:44

that are natural because that's just not in his d n A. But

47:46

if you could recognize, if he actually recognizes like,

47:48

no, I actually need to score on this guy because they

47:50

have made a mistake by putting this person on me, he

47:53

actually will respond to that and really make

47:55

them pay for it. Um. So all

47:57

those things I think, especially with how smart

47:59

he is and all those things, plus with when his contract

48:02

expires, you can really kind of live with

48:04

it and it'll be okay. And I don't

48:06

think you have to give up the Brooklyn pick to get him. If things

48:08

get to the point where Memphis trades him, which

48:10

I which I they're not yet, But if Memphis

48:13

does get to the point where Memphis trades him, you

48:15

can do it for Tristan Thompson and protective first round

48:17

picks from the calfs. Oh snap,

48:19

I'd be all in on that. That's that's a nob

48:21

that's a no brainer. Then. I've long

48:24

said that. I've long said

48:26

that Marcusol is basically the center

48:28

version of j R. Smith. He just needs Lebron to keep

48:30

them accountable and keep him honest and

48:32

focused. Yeah, I'm

48:34

throwing up by making the throw up emojis.

48:41

I kind of like the idea, like go ahead,

48:43

Cardiff, okay, uh yeah,

48:46

Like I never thought it was dumb

48:48

that Justin had this idea. I mean, I

48:50

understood the potential

48:53

benefits and the potential risks scare

48:55

me. But I mean there's no

48:57

doubt that if they traded for him, they would

48:59

be better and better in

49:01

a not insignificant way. It's

49:04

just the extent to which just

49:06

how much better they are to make

49:08

it worth sacrificing that long term

49:11

utility. But yeah, I mean

49:13

it would be really fun. And if they don't have to give up the Brooklyn

49:15

pick, I mean, that's that's free.

49:18

That's you do that without even thinking. And I

49:20

love trist and I think he's been great for this team,

49:24

But yeah, I think that they would

49:26

do that without really any hesitation

49:28

whatsoever. I kind of like the

49:30

idea of this pod going into Matt

49:33

Settle's arguments between us UM

49:36

because the the other area,

49:39

the other area of disagreement that we have,

49:41

and I've caused some flag for this is

49:44

I have a lot of concerns about Isaiah

49:46

Thomas's offense against the Warriors

49:48

because everyone talks. That's not that's a Chops

49:50

disagreement. That's that's not a me disagreement.

49:53

I'm I'm I'm ambivalent.

49:55

Okay, Well, but anyways,

49:58

let me know if I'm crazy here, because I've

50:01

like, I watched a lot of Isaiah

50:03

Thomas against the Warriors over the last few

50:06

years after the trade went down

50:08

because I'm bored and I have no life in the

50:10

summer, and a lot of what the Warriors

50:13

did against him it was similar

50:15

to what the Warriors did against Kyrie.

50:17

They trapped him, they tried to make him

50:19

make mistakes, and I

50:22

mean in the first two games on the

50:24

last two finals, Kyrie really

50:26

struggled against that. And

50:29

with Isaiah Thomas, like, I think he's going to see

50:31

a lot of the same defense because they can

50:33

guard Lebron one on one with Durant and

50:36

the length of the Warriors and what they

50:38

can do defensively. Um,

50:40

like Thomas just hadn't hasn't

50:42

had a good game against the Warriors, and

50:44

he struggles to score, he struggles to get

50:47

to the free throw line, he struggles to get penetration,

50:49

and um, it's given

50:52

the what you're losing defensively

50:54

by having him on the court. It just makes

50:56

me nervous about how effective he's

50:58

going to be against the Warriors. The

51:01

Warriors are gonna try and do what they do to them every

51:04

single year, which is the same thing they did in

51:06

two thousand and fifteen. The Warriors

51:08

know that if they make Lebron beat them one on

51:10

beat them one on five, that they're gonna come

51:12

out ahead, and that their entire

51:15

ethos is is um,

51:18

we're never gonna load up on him to

51:20

the point where it exploits

51:22

everything else. And like what he did in two thousand

51:24

and sixteen is a testament to

51:26

his incredible greatness as well as by the way

51:28

the fact that Kyrie was able to shake all that

51:31

um and score on his own, Like when

51:33

those two got going, they were able to score

51:35

enough to generate what they needed. UM.

51:38

But as always, the defense was

51:40

also there. Like the splits in the first

51:43

three games versus the last four were

51:46

or versus in the first four versus the last three were

51:49

extreme UM in terms of

51:52

the rating. I think with Isaiah

51:54

that what they're gonna do, You're right that they're gonna trap

51:56

them. They're gonna try and neutralize them. And the problem with Thomas

51:59

is that when he's stifled, he

52:01

doesn't There's just not a lot else that he does

52:03

for you. UM. There

52:06

are players that if you try and neutralize

52:08

them, they're going to punish you for it. Curry

52:10

is one of them. Like, if you throw the double

52:12

team at Curry, Curry is going

52:15

to start finding ways to not only

52:17

just make the simple easy pass to dreamond

52:19

on the short roll. Once you start

52:21

adjusting to that, Curry is gonna get

52:24

find ways to get to a spot where he can make

52:26

another pass that leads to the lob

52:28

or Um forces the pull

52:31

down from the corner to open up a corner three. Curry

52:34

is able to become more of a playmaker when

52:36

he's called upon. One thing that was impressive

52:38

about Isaiah last year, and

52:40

this is something that was that was missed because

52:42

they didn't play the Warriors. After this happened,

52:45

Isaiah went through this entire season and was scoring

52:47

and it was awesome, and the Celtics were rolling and yeada,

52:49

YadA, YadA, and he's an m V peak at it, and

52:52

those of us in the know, we're still like, they're not beating the Calfs.

52:54

That's not happening. But was notable is like

52:57

in that last Cavaliers game that

52:59

they had Celtic versus Cavaliers in the regular

53:01

season before you guys were up

53:03

fifty on them. Uh in the playoffs.

53:06

Uh. I was really

53:08

struck by the fact that in that game Isaiah

53:10

Thomas, they threw everything

53:13

at Thomas, the Cavaliers through the kitchen sink

53:15

at him, and so he decided, instead

53:17

of forcing it, he was gonna make them pay

53:19

by passing. And so he started finding

53:21

open shooters and Crowder was actually one of them,

53:24

and Lebron was, just as

53:26

I've noted in the past, just checked out on

53:28

his assignment on the shooters that he's been on. And

53:30

this just continues to be a problem with him. It's

53:33

been better the last couple of games, I noticed,

53:35

but Thomas was able to make them

53:37

pay. So that's gonna be to me, that's gonna be

53:39

the real key is like, look, can Isaiah Thomas go

53:41

into a game with the Warriors and then just

53:43

be like, I'm going to have eleven

53:46

assists and three hockey assists if

53:48

they have, If he has that kind of a game, you

53:50

can punish them just by your presence,

53:53

just by the fact that Isaiah Thomas is so good.

53:55

If he's so good because he's healthy,

53:57

or he just looks good enough and he's scoring,

54:00

and the Warriors have to commit that kind of energy

54:02

in it, and he makes them pay for that decision

54:05

versus needing Lebron to make them pay for

54:07

that decision, then you

54:09

can still survive. The key is not going

54:11

to be what Isaiah Thomas can do individually.

54:14

It's what can Isaiah Thomas do as

54:17

a threat to make the Calves offense

54:19

what it's going to need to be to be the Warriors. I

54:22

have a question for both of you, just

54:25

a simple little over under over

54:27

under Isaiah Thomas plays if,

54:30

assuming that Calves make the finals again, Isaiah

54:32

Thomas plays thirty three

54:34

minutes a game over under Warriors

54:38

and very great. I think he's gonna have to be.

54:41

I think he's gonna have to be. They're gonna

54:43

have to upsize a lot, and they're just

54:45

gonna have to pick their spots. With Thomas, it'll

54:47

be the Kevin Love situation. If it's a game where

54:49

it's going well, you keep them in.

54:52

If it's not, he's going to have to be ready

54:54

to sacrifice the same way that Love

54:56

has in the past, because

54:58

Love had a few effectively eames last year in

55:00

the finals. But when he's not effective,

55:03

he has to be prepared to sit. And I don't know how

55:05

Isaiah is going to respond to that, um,

55:08

but that's what's necessary, because I

55:10

mean, if it comes down to it, the Calves

55:13

might have to go with Wade at point

55:15

guard just for defensive reasons. With

55:17

Wade j R. Crowder

55:20

Lebron and either Tristan

55:22

or try to work someone else into their

55:25

UM. But that might be what they need to do some nights.

55:29

Let's say that the Calves make the finals and

55:31

to get there, they faced the Wizards in the Eastern

55:33

Conference Finals and they win that series

55:36

four games to two. Okay,

55:39

UM, the difference what that will

55:41

happen is what the Wizards will

55:43

do is the Wizards will see Isaiah Thomas

55:45

and they'll say, we are going to

55:47

punish that mismatch. We almost

55:49

worked last year when it was Isaiah versus versus

55:52

Us in Boston. We're going to do that this time.

55:55

So we're gonna put Isaiah and we're gonna

55:57

force him to switch, and then we're gonna have Wall

55:59

or Beal post him into oblivion.

56:02

And the problem is that strategy never

56:05

works because post ups are inherently inefficient

56:07

and most of the time the players doing them are not guys

56:10

that take them routinely, and they're

56:12

so amped up to take advantage of a mismatch

56:14

that winds up backfiring. What the

56:16

Warriors will do is the

56:18

Warriors will force them. This will force

56:20

the switch, and they'll get Kevin Durant on him,

56:23

but they won't have Kevin Durant back him into the basket.

56:25

Durant will take the same shot that he would take over any

56:27

other opponent because he's a seven

56:30

foot every guard,

56:32

every player, every omni forward, he'll

56:34

do the same shots. And when

56:37

the help comes, they'll punish

56:39

Cleveland for that mismatch. That's

56:42

the gap between the Warriors and the Wizards.

56:44

The Wizards will try and punish you for having a

56:46

player on the floor. The Warriors will

56:48

punish you for having that player on the floor by

56:51

forcing you to let them take the easiest

56:53

shot that they want. Anyway, Yeah,

56:55

I agree, I totally agree, And I

56:58

mean we've talked about it at not and justin

57:00

I have locked in on this is less

57:02

and years past they

57:05

shoved j on Curry and said

57:07

go do your best Jr. Then they've

57:09

stuck Kyrie on Clay and said go do your

57:11

best Hyrie. Kyrie is six three

57:15

Isaiah Thomas, it's five nine,

57:18

like and you cannot hide

57:21

Isaiah on anyone. Clay

57:24

doesn't even have to change, as you said, Clay

57:26

is not gonna have to change his offense. They'll just

57:28

take the same three he takes in the corner. But

57:31

Isaiah's contest doesn't mean anything.

57:33

Yeah, it could be standing on isshoes

57:36

and went affect the shot. There

57:39

are a lot of ways that like way concerns me in this matchup.

57:41

And I'm gonna be fascinated to see Christmas um

57:44

because like the idea of Wade having to follow

57:46

Clay around screens is

57:48

really concerning. But

57:51

then the idea of like, okay,

57:53

like put weight on Curry and

57:56

then they forced the switch, and so Way

57:58

goes on to Draymond. And I'm not worried

58:00

about Draymond versus Wade in the post because

58:02

Draymond won't take that shot. But

58:05

then like Draymond popping and Way

58:07

to let him shoot. But that's actually okay because

58:09

you want Draymond shooting. You always want Draymond

58:11

shooting. There

58:14

are ways that this gets concerning,

58:17

but like the more that you kind of get into it,

58:19

it's like, look, if Wade really locks in if way, it's

58:21

just like, I am going to play good defense in this game,

58:23

and that's where my focus is going to be. Um

58:26

he can give them something that if

58:28

he's feeling up for it, he can give

58:31

them something that the Warriors are going to be bothered

58:33

by because he's smart and he'll

58:35

make the tactical decision like he's not gonna get

58:38

He won't if he loses his guys

58:40

because he's complaining about a call on the offensive end.

58:42

He's not gonna lose Draymond Green on a back

58:44

cut. He's not gonna lose Draymond Green,

58:47

you know, getting like getting sealed. He's not gonna

58:49

lose Clay Thompson. Um

58:51

just outright it's because they

58:54

It's because he got distracted by something else

58:57

I worry about. I'm going over screens. But you

58:59

know, look at if you've got if you put Lebron

59:01

on Draymond or on

59:03

KD and you put Way

59:05

on Curry, Like I like that cross switch

59:08

pretty well, that's not bad. Yeah,

59:10

I agree, And I mean

59:12

this is something that we've talked

59:14

about in the past, even going into

59:16

last finals, as I kept saying, like everyone

59:19

on the cabs is going to have to be like ten to fifteen

59:21

percent better than they normally are, and

59:24

like that's still true. Like you're

59:26

not gonna beat the Warriors playing

59:28

as good as you normally are, and

59:30

they'll need to play ten to fiftent

59:32

worse than they normally are. Sure, like

59:35

you need those things to break, But I think Wade

59:37

is capable of giving you that extra ten percent

59:40

kind of like what you're saying, Matt, more

59:42

than most guys. Yeah,

59:44

I think you know, I've long made

59:47

the kind of the comparison between Genoble and

59:49

Wade Um in two thousand

59:51

and thirteen, when both of

59:53

them kind of struggled in the middle of their final series

59:56

I wrote this big thing about like, look, when

59:58

guys get older, they don't it was their

1:00:00

top end ability, Like they still have nights

1:00:02

there are still nice even that liketty

1:00:06

where Manu still looks like Mano, like

1:00:09

he still looks like and

1:00:11

there are some yeah, and there are some nights

1:00:14

where Wade still looks like Wade.

1:00:16

Where what age robs you of as the consistency,

1:00:19

like I think, honestly, I've I've said this, like I

1:00:21

think we're starting to see that with Lebron, but

1:00:24

we're only seeing it on the defensive end

1:00:26

in very specific situations, Like

1:00:28

we're seeing it very gradually.

1:00:31

I did this whole thing on their defense when

1:00:33

he was so crappy to start the season, And it's like a

1:00:35

lot of way it comes down to is Lebron thinks he can

1:00:37

make clothes outs that he can't and

1:00:39

that's like a very specific athletic

1:00:42

move that if you ask, like, well,

1:00:44

can he never make that? No? If he if he like

1:00:46

if he's like ready to make that move, then yeah,

1:00:48

he's still going to close out with ferocity and he can. He

1:00:50

could block a shot from Curry, that's how fast he

1:00:53

is. But it's a consistency that

1:00:55

that that drains, that gets drained,

1:00:57

and that's what like a as Lebron gets old

1:01:00

or that's what's gonna go for him, is it's going to be like,

1:01:02

oh, he's no longer it's

1:01:05

no longer seven

1:01:07

seven every single night it's

1:01:10

oh, it starts to be like oh yeah, a night where

1:01:12

it was only like twenty you

1:01:14

know, four and two, and

1:01:17

then it just kind of slides down from

1:01:19

there. They consistently right

1:01:22

um, and then you know, but but

1:01:25

but at the same time, like Wade still I think

1:01:27

has the ability too if

1:01:29

he's if the body will will be there for

1:01:31

him. He is a guy that

1:01:34

that competitiveness really doesn't matter. Like we talked

1:01:36

of you know, I break

1:01:38

down numbers and analytics and on off numbers

1:01:40

and and xs and os, but like, look some of

1:01:42

this a lot of the time, it really is

1:01:45

competitiveness and intensity and an ability

1:01:47

to like step up in that moment. And

1:01:49

Waite is a guy you want in that moment.

1:01:52

It's amazing that we're talking about him this way

1:01:55

four years after finals

1:01:57

or what will be four years. I

1:01:59

love it. It's so great. He's like he's

1:02:02

such an underappreciated legend. Like

1:02:04

it's just unbelievable

1:02:07

how much like he his like a star.

1:02:09

Because the thing is like like when he that last year

1:02:11

in Miami after Lebron had left,

1:02:13

like he was still dragging that team to the playoffs,

1:02:16

like he was almost taking down Toronto.

1:02:20

Like there there's so many ways that he is still

1:02:22

like a meaningful, complimentary

1:02:24

player. And there are nights when I'm like

1:02:27

wolf, like, oh God, like

1:02:29

Wade got tonight doesn't

1:02:31

well. And there's nights where like I'm just like, oh,

1:02:33

that's that's no Why why

1:02:36

why must you get old Dwayne Wade um? But

1:02:38

then their nights, I'm like, oh, he looks the same,

1:02:40

He's just doing the same thing. Yeah,

1:02:42

I think that. I think that's

1:02:44

why I've been so kind of obsessive

1:02:47

about him this season, my writing

1:02:49

and my tweeting is like he's just such

1:02:52

a joy to watch this year when it's going

1:02:54

well and it's and he's such

1:02:56

a smart player, and like, this is something Justin

1:02:59

loves to say, is smart players learned how

1:03:01

to play in whatever situation

1:03:03

you put them in. Like Wade figured it

1:03:05

out, like he had it took him a minute, but then he figured

1:03:07

it out. And just the little

1:03:09

things that you don't see not really

1:03:12

smart players do. Like when he's

1:03:14

running the pick and roll and he waits that extra

1:03:16

beat before attacking to let the

1:03:18

defense make its commitment and

1:03:20

then he burns them like dumb

1:03:23

players don't do that. They just they just

1:03:25

go at the same speed. Like his change of speed game

1:03:27

is great. He's just been a joy to watch this season.

1:03:30

And I'm really really glad that this

1:03:32

Wade Cavaliers era wasn't

1:03:35

depressing because three ms in it looked like it

1:03:37

could be a huge bummer. Right

1:03:41

now, it's he's been exactly

1:03:44

what the best case scenario was, which is

1:03:46

he's completely embraced his role as a

1:03:49

playmaker. Uh you do get

1:03:51

those defensive flashes and those flashes

1:03:53

of the old Dwyane Wade, and he's

1:03:55

just a smart player and that's exactly

1:03:58

what the team needed. Um.

1:04:00

Yeah, it's it's been very

1:04:03

very encouraging. But Matt,

1:04:05

we we really do appreciate your time. Thank you

1:04:07

so much for coming on. Um a

1:04:09

lot of great insights. I'm now going to

1:04:11

be thinking about Trisan Thompson and the cows

1:04:13

pick for gasol basically all night. So

1:04:16

I have you to thank for that. He's

1:04:21

dostint doesn't looks terrible today. What happened

1:04:24

as another gastal mate pretty

1:04:29

much, that's that's gonna take me out. But to

1:04:31

all our listeners, we do appreciate all

1:04:33

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